Thank you, chair. Um, I just kind of question this one. Um, especially since you said, you know, you're here to gather data, you know, on how best to support the students. Do you need a bill to gather that data on how best to support the students in the Kauni um schools? You can't Couldn't you do that already? Um, I know the standard I get the standardized part of that and I don't know if I completely agree with that specific thing, but you know like for myself like I'm I'm I'm trying to look at where why we need to you know move this forward when you could already do a lot of this stuff already. Correct. uh we can individually center. Yes. And then gather the data from the individual teachers and the different schools and the the um the type of Thank you for the question, Senator Ko.
The um the we can gather individual assessments from individual schools. Um however, those assessments that are designed by teachers individually uh would be difficult to aggregate because they're not the same assessment system. Yeah. No, I get it because I mean even the kids starting off in kindergarten too, right? You know, 90 days for them to learn. Um, a lot of them come into the schools not knowing the Hawaiian language and learn, you know, completely learning. A lot of them don't go to like uh pre- immersion uh preschools. So, everybody's going to be completely different, you know, and that 90 days of still continuing to learn and figure a whole bunch of things out. I don't know. It just seems like by that standardized 90 days, you know, the the data might be a little skewed um because everybody, you know, there's so many kids that coming to kindergarten not knowing anything, right, of Hawaii language.
I'm just wondering if that's the right I mean to completely standardize it it if you're going to get the right correct data that you need. That's my question. Thank you. you have anything you want to add for the senator's question. I would say that we are definitely confident that if we undertook a rigorous process with the KY community that we would get the data that we need and that they need in a way that is very sensitive to the uniqueness of the community and that is important because common goalposts like we've talked about I think throughout our conversations today are critical and being able to have a common understanding from school site to school site um what constitutes that entry expectation is very important and can be a leveling the playing field for students by ensuring that we define what we expect in a common way so that all children can be successful from the start and aren't potentially negatively positioned by differing expectations from sight to sight.
No, I I definitely get where you going with this. just it just seems like there's some kind of disconnect between what you actually want to do and like what all the testimony that we've been getting you know the the hundreds of testimony that um Senator Pavilla spoke about earlier I don't know if there's really that collaboration going on in that understanding but there might be I mean I'm just I don't know I haven't reached out to them all those that did uh testify in opposition and I definitely will I think one of the testifiers was Kilo Immora and somebody that I want to talk story with to see um why she opposed it even though it's kind of laid out a little bit in the testimony. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Chair. Go ahead. Um thank you. So I I think I'm struggling like Senator Kuha is um and also stated by um Senator Pavlla.
Okay, we gather data. We gather data that sits on the shelf, but okay, then what? So what's the followup? We're going to have data, but then what? And so that's why I'm struggling with this. And I'm, you know, like Senator Kuha was talking about this data can be gathered, at least started to show what it's going to be bringing to us. And so I'm I'm a little puzzled why it's here. I'm listening and I think I understand what your intent is, but I don't see the the followup and then what we're going to do with this data. So that's why I'm trying to get my arms around that. Um thank you senator for the question. Um the the data that we'll be gathering um will be used to definitely will be analyzing and actionoriented. So definitely will be one area. Um and also to use that data to inform and to share with our uh early education partners um perhaps uh where some of the need is the the ability for us to look across our system and to identify need for our students I think is one of the the one of the strengths that will allow us to support our students in moving forward once they enter kindergarten.
Okay. Thanks. Thanks, chair. Thank you. Thank you. So, superintendent, the board of education at I guess it's December meeting or something required that required this. Is this their mandate? Um the the board Yes. Senator the uh Okay. So, are they already are one? Yeah. Hello, senators. My name is Kyle Sang. I'm the director of the Office of Hawai Education um reporting directly to the superintendent. Um in the December 15th meeting, the Department of Education made a recommendation to the board based on um the ask out of act 10 to develop um and administer a uniform assessment for kindergarten ready kindergarten readiness for all students in the department of education. in its October meeting, October or November meeting, they approved the use of the John's Hopkins University assessment for our English language students. Um and in its December 15th meeting, they approved the recommendation for the development the identification of um standards for our Hawaiian language immersion students and the development of an assessment tool that would be used for a kindergarten ready assessment written assess assessment for those kei coming into PayPun schools.
And so sort of two different strokes um happening here. one um sort of this set aside the John's Hopkins tool uh to be used for all of our English students um coming into kindergarten and then uh tool that would be developed and designed by the community um including our teachers um and our stakeholders in the community uh for our Hawaiian language immersion program students. All of these these two assessments are going to be tools that would be used to um address the ask out of act 210 um relative to uh administering a uniform kindergarten readiness assessment. So the um assessment for kindergarteners other than the Hawaiian immersion are already happening or that has not been done yet. Is this going to be done all at the same time? No. The um so the English well act 210 asks the department to administer to start the administration of a kindergarten readiness assessment in the fall of 2023 and so it's not prepared yet.
No, we're in the current we're in the process of procuring for the English assessment the John's Hopkins tool. So this bill is to include a Hawaiian immersion version and I I think correct is that correct? So I think a lot of the complaints that were you know emails we're getting is maybe that uh the audience does not understand that there is there was already a requirement to do the kindergarten entry assessment. Correct. Okay. So I guess as to Senator Kim's question, why John Hopkins and are you using John Hopkins for the Hawaiian immersion version also? Um I my understanding is that the John's Hopkins tool um for the English program was selected after a review of tools that met um the requirements of act 210 to be able to address the five domains that are listed in in the law um for the Hawaiian language um assessment tool because there isn't something that is available to the department to be able to administer readily in fall of 2023.
We are asking for an amendment to the law to make time uh to be able to convene community in a process in a rigorous process to then develop a tool by the community for the community that can be used um uh beyond its final phase of preparation. Okay. So what if the student or parent refuses to do the assessment? I'm going to defer to that. Yeah, I know it is. But but can just sit there and not say anything if they, you know, I'm just saying how how do you do, especially a kindergartener, if they decide you're asking them too many questions, they're not going to talk. currently um senator I don't believe we we have an opt out process but definitely that um can be considered yeah we could offer an opt out process for the for the parent okay and I think the department should make it clear that this is not just a Hawaiian immersion assessment that it's going to be done by all uh kindergarteners all those entering into kindergarten Um so is this kindergarten assessment a national trend?
Is this being required of many schools on the Thank you. Um it is definitely a national trend um and mixed in terms of whether states develop internally or whether they use um an externally creative tool. So, um, the John's Hopkins tool is used by multiple states including Ohio and Indiana and South Carolina and Maryland. Um, several other states have created their own assessments on often a smaller scale is what we've noticed. Um, something that stood out to us for the JHU tool in particular is that it is 50% observational items. So, it's purely observing the children as they are. And you mentioned earlier, you alluded to the fact that children are who they are, particularly in kindergarten. So, as a former kindergarten teacher, thinking about assessments that are actually developmentally appropriate, we look for flexibility while still remaining faithful to the content itself and ensuring that it's not one setting in order to do that assessment.
So that was actually something that we saw as a limitation in many of the tools that were created and in use on the continent is they were often assumed to be in one sitting and didn't rely on observation as a um as an as an assessment tool. So that's what drove our decision towards that John's Hopkins University tool in particular. But we did have a national scan conducted um by Dr. GG Weisenfeld in order to make that determination and identify what other states were using the large majority do have a KBA. Thank you. So um being in Hawaii and all the different uh nationalities that we have and there are um other children in school besides Hawaiian children who may not um have English as their first language. Um, does that I guess what I'm asking is the John John's Hopkins um assessment is it something you guys do verbatim or it's just telling you how to do it and the teacher does it depending on who the student is.
Right. I mean using pigeon or whatever it is it means you right right. So we certainly would not be looking for uniformity in language responses. Um in the performance items there are some where a child might not speak at all and would just indicate a response and that would be a valid response. Um the JHU also provides us with professional development supports for the teachers to actually administer and that includes allowable supports for students whose first language is not English so that teachers can be less biased in their assessment of children and be able to understand areas where they might need to provide an additional support or may actually need to not score that item because it's not yet accessible for the child. Thank you. And then going back to one of Senator Kim's questions is um so you do this in kindergarten. When do you do it again to see how uh well or not so well the child has advanced?
When I talk about that I describe it in terms of taking your child to the pediatrician. Um so it's a developmental screener. Uh when we take our kids to the pediatrician, they don't get the age four screener again when they turn five, even if they weren't able to hop on one foot yet. We do the age five. So it's normed against developmental and agebased norms as well as the content items for the math and literacy, which makes the scores complex. That's why there's multiple domain scores. So if we were to give the exact same items again at the end of the school year, they wouldn't be developmental expectations for that child anymore. So what we're trying to do internally is develop a system for understanding, particularly relative to the content items for literacy and math, what other kindergarten level assessments we already have in place that we can then start to compare.
it wouldn't be an item for item match, but there um the assessment itself has been shown in previous states to be a valid and reliable predictor of students third grade literacy and mass outcomes. So, we are pretty confident that we would be able to develop internally a way for measuring those academic outcomes across time with this as a starting point. Okay, I think you've really answered my question. Um I'm trying to think what how does this assessment help the child, the parent, the school um in the future years to to look at to look back at what they did and what you thought that they needed help with and did they get that help? Is this done again in the third grade to review that? That's what I'm asking. Right. So that would not be a valid use of a developmental screener um because the children have aged three years.
It would have to be another developmental screener norm to third grade ages and stages to do a direct analysis. Yeah, I get that. I get that. But again, so so what are you what are you measuring it against? I mean, why are you measuring it if you're not going to see how they're doing in two or three years? I don't know if you understand currently that um once the we administer the kindergarten entry assessment. Um we we don't have I don't I don't believe that we have a a other than the current screeners that we have another developmental screener anywhere else. That's and that's I think that's your question and that's the trend. I mean you don't need to do one. Is that what you're saying? Is that what John Hopkins can say? Is that what I don't know. I'm just asking. The parents are probably going to wonder the same thing.
That's why. Right. So I think I'm misunderstanding your question. Do do you mind restating it for me? I'm I want to know if you're doing this test, what's the purpose? Are you going to measure them against something else later on that they should be at or after kindergarten? you know before the year ends have they developed to where they should be if they didn't have normal development normals so to speak that's what I'm asking so you're asking what what the gains are right how will we know whether students have made gains or not based on the field I don't believe at this point senator that we do we have it in another developmental screener uh that that would measure uh we do have other screeners ers um academic as well as social emotional screeners. But I think what we need to do is to see if um how we correlate how we can correlate those those two screeners.
So that's that's a very good question that you asked. Yeah. No, I'm just wondering nationally is there's something else that is done. So are we doing it and then in a couple years you guys are going to ask us to do something else with these kindergarten oh assessments? No. Typically nationally the purpose is to identify um where children start and then growth is documented in a variety of ways both formal and informal. Um many states use it as a predictor of later literacy and math outcomes on other standardized assessments. Um here we are being asked to also provide that data back to our early childhood partners so that they have a sense um of where our students enter so that we can collaborate around what needs to be done to report. So it seems this assessment is more geared for the the broader um health of the students versus the individual students because you're saying you're going to grab this data and that data can be shared with the pre kindergartens and the early education to look at what can be done and superintendent you said that it doesn't be allowed to create programs and and whatever for statewide, right?
Those seems like all this broad kind of thing that you're going to do the data. I Yes, senator. Thank you um for that for giving me the opportunity to clarify. Yes, it it is broad. I believe also though that uh the the more specific may be where in in say in a school that has kindergarten teachers being that the assessment is a common assessment um schools can then schools and complexes can take a look at their respective data of of their classroom um and have based on what they're seeing uh teachers within a school for example can collaborate on what might be some of the effective strategies that they can um yeah but you can do that now within your schools. You can have the uniform now and you can gather data now and again the thing is if we had all the money in the world what would we want right I mean and you don't have all the money in the world and and you're not required at this point to um give us a uh priorities like okay what's the most important on the list and where would this land because you come to the legislature and you guys ask for everything you know and hope that you guys get something.
But my big thing is when you work on that big block picture, how long is it going to take you to then take this data and then create a program think wide and get the resource and everything take three four years sometimes for you guys to do something like that or if it even happens and you come in for money, you come in for legislation, there's other priorities and so I'm just saying that uh you know you're making good arguments why you want this or why it's needed but the practic practicality of it and having been around as I have as long as I have. I see the practicality that is not necessarily there. You know, everybody wants data. I mean, we got HTA spending millions of dollars on data data. They take the data before the visitor even gets here. I mean, and we've been doing that for 70 years, but nobody really assess, you know, what are the consequences and what are the intended results?
What do we actually get and how is it utilized? By the time you guys institute some of these programs like the prisons have determined that we needed like an O triple C now they're saying oh that's not the right model you know years later after that whatever data they got then is no longer current because the whole sentiment of the country has changed and similarly these kinds of assessments the students change so quickly now with the entrance of pre kindergarten I'm sure it's going to change because pre kindergarten is going to certainly change some of these students entering into kindergarten. So your your assessments is not even going to be current after the 2023 once kindergarten starts that whole those all the students in there. It's going to change the whole assessment of you know so you're not going to be able to do something standardized across the state.