However, important to know each year Kenny school for adults department received the federal workforce right organization and opportunity. So you folks are the ones that help with the community. Correct. You guys provide counseling too. Um we don't provide counseling within the facility itself as the um friends the white friends for justice does but um we have other partners within the correctional facility that does the counseling. Okay. So you can work should this measure pass um you folks can work hand in hand with um correct them as far as the counseling areas in which they can assist in the G as well as other areas. Yes. Yes. Okay. The program is um I think is delivered well. We have the funding from the um federal government to support the program and that would be at no cost to the ledge. So we could partner with this nonprofit organization.
In fact, we received funding from the Senate this past year, but they had requested that we um purchase staff positions, but we could not use DOE funds to purchase a staff position for over I think it was about 120,000. So, the monies still have not been spent. Um but it's almost we're almost there and so the monies will be transferred to the University of Hawaii. Okay. So in this bill it asks for about 225,000 and that it'll um be administered by the Hawaii friends for the school of justice. Correct. So but also administered by the University of Hawaii Woodward Community. Correct. So you're saying that you folks get federal monies, right? And you have monies to cover those costs. We have monies not for the staffing because we're already using our we we have in place. We have our vice principles. We have our secretaries.
We have all of those staff members in place to manage the program and we could pay for their instructors. Okay. What about for the counseling? We could we could fund that also. Yeah. But we could not fund a regular staff. That's um like too much monies for us. But you said you don't need regular staff because you have that. Correct. But you can we do have transition counselors and um in fact we have them because we we handle corrections statewide. So it's on all of the islands and not only um the women's correctional facility. So on the neighbor islands we have transition counselors also. So you can do this program. I just want to make it clear. You can do this program with the funding you have but you cannot provide a permanent staff person. I'm not sure. ask um but you can provide the cost me and the programs that they're running through now with the funds that you we could pay.
Correct. We could because we we pay our employees a PTT rate. This is aside from the regular employees that we have that are full-time employees. Oh, we're going to need some kind of memorandum of understanding to make sure that this happens. No, because currently we we pay for the staff that are at other correction facilities like our PTTs, our teachers, our tutors. We pay them. Okay. [Music] Okay. Let's see who would be the person administering this. Is it friends for um friends for restorative justice or is it Wick Community College or is it corrections? Which which of you could answer? Okay. And this is W. Okay. Good afternoon. My name is Jennifer Brown. I'm the vice chancellor for students at Winberg Community College. Thank you, Jennifer. I'm here in place of our chancellor who could not be today. Um So, a couple of points. Um, one, the Winward and HFRJ are not administering or paying for the GED.
That's not the intent, right? So, the intent, um, PSD proctors the GED and McKinley School for adults gives the vouchers to pay for the test for students. The fact that the program supports but doesn't proctor helps in removing potential conflicts of interest. Yeah. Um, it's not just GED tutoring as it has been described through the other um, testimonies. It's more about the counseling and the life skills and the moving on, transitioning. Um, so we feel this program is really important to help with that transition out and back into society. Um, there was a piece about this being awarded as a a grant and we actually would go through the regular procurement processes as mandated by the state of Hawaii to do this. So, I'm not trying to award grants in competition with anybody else. Does that help? Okay. So you're saying that yes there's tutors and counseling from the adult education with the federal funds but it's not for counseling of other in other areas.
My my understanding is that counseling does not occur in the facility but it can so this occurs in the facility but it can if monies are available or if um the school decides they have funding to the counseling can that happen I cannot answer that question okay um so she asked let me let me go ahead and say So I'm saying that she says counseling did not occur in the facility, right? As far as I understand, right? But if in fact McKinley has funds to be able to fund counsel counselors, not just in the GED but in other areas that you know for your college college prep courses or college whatever it is that you folks need. Um would that be would that work? Yes. Come, come forward. I think there's a significant difference between what they say is possible and what has been happening.
Um the services that are being provided by this project have not been being provided. Um last year there was money appropriated by the legislature for this project. It went to the McKinley school and as you heard it earlier um it has still not made its way to this project. So this project continued to be funded by people just cutting corners other places and making donations to keep it alive. Um I there is not an equivalency between what adult education provides and what this project provides. This project provides a pathway for women not only to do the learning to get their GED, but then to engage in college courses while they are in the prison and to have a um transition a guidance of a transition then into a college program when they leave leave the prison. I I understand that um and but it's not necessarily mean that that McKinley or adult school cannot have a program like that and funding come from them but they have to we have to prescribe it.
We have to be the ones to say you know this should happen. I'm just saying if that you know yeah I think um I understand what you're saying. I think that it would not be the same program. Um I think the cooperative learning strategies that are being implemented are not the same thing that is provided by adult education. Um so I think it would be um a very different kind of tutoring for the get period is my understanding. Yeah. So thank you. It's it's different now but nothing to say that it could be what we want it to be in the future. It also depends on how we do this. So, thank you. You're more hopeful than I am. Members, any further questions on seven? Okay. Okay. We're going to move on to the next bill. That's 71. On our testifiers list, we have Candace Park from the Attorney General's office.
Good afternoon. Just want to point out that the um statewide concern language would be um helpful in this bill. Thank you. Michael Gou from Stonewall Caucus of the Democratic Party of Hawaii has indicated he was going to join us via Zoom. It do we have Michael? Not present on Zoom. Chair, thank you. Uh Linda Rich from the Women's Prison Project. Okay. Um, so Women's Prison Project strongly supports this um, bill, Senate Bill 711. Um, what this bill would do would be to determine what the state's level of compliance is with section 367D-1 of Hawaii Revised Statutes, which requires that incarcerated women shall be provided a range and quality of program substantially equivalent to the range and quality of program afforded to male prisoners who are similarly situated. Um to date we have no um data that no reports that verify that. Um the statute goes on to say that the program should specifically address the psychosocial developmental needs of women um and is not required to be identical to but substantially equivalent to the programming for men.
Um this bill would have a um team of experienced researchers from the University of Hawaii study the programming actually across the system because they have to look at the men's prison programming in order to make the comparison. We believe that this would be um an incredibly valuable valuable tool um in looking at the process of transforming our whole correction system into being or um rehabilitative because it would give us solid information across the system of what programming is there, what program is needed and what program is being affected and might be duplicated in other settings. So, we urge you to make this appropriation to the University of Hawaii to allow this valuable data to be collected.
Any questions? Thank you. You might want to sit there because you're the last to indicate you want to testify. Is there anyone else wishing to testify? Well, I'm sorry. Um, we'll have Angela speak and I'm going to call you up in a second. Um, Angela. Aloha. Payaka chair, chairs, vice chairs, and the committees. My name is Angela Melody Young testifying in strong support. Um so programs that integrate restorative justice. Um it provides um the mental health resources to develop um the um offenders or incarcerated individuals so that they can be provided things that they weren't provided to begin with. Right? So um uh I think that's very necessary because restorative justice also addresses amending harm and building positive connections um after wrongdoing. And so getting to the heart of the concern um the behavioral health um um concerns it will really truly transform um the system.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Thank you Angela. Anyone else wishing to testify on 711? Members, any questions? Mitch, I understand this bill really wants to elevate services for incarcerated women. But part I don't understand is why would you make a comparison to what Hawaii's male population has a services? I mean, it's not as if Hawaii is the gold standard. No, there's a parody law and so the parody law says it um does compare the two men and women's programming. Um so beneficial we compared it to I don't know where the best prison services are across the nation but have your your services compared to that gold standard versus what the men are getting locally? Well, that would be effective for the women, but if you want to um elevate the entire system, it's good to know what's really happening across the entire system.
So, um that's why we we have it in the way that we have it. Yeah. And um mostly, you know, our biggest concern is that we have one of the highest recidivisms rates in the country um both for women and for men. And it's just not acceptable. And so we believe that this would facilitate giving information that would lead to change not only for the women but across the board. I mean I see that this could be incremental improvement. Yeah. Shouldn't we be seeking vast improvements for women? So very we're happy to have vast improvements for women. We've been begging for that. So could we change the language here to have it not be compared to how men are treated in Hawaii, but whatever the gold standard is. Sure. For the way I think we could agree to that. Yeah. Yes. So, um I pretty much concur.
However, I feel that Well, don't you don't you already kind of know that the women's programs are not far and we already know that there's gaps. Well, we know there's gaps across the system. Um what we don't know what we don't know is if there are things that um are being implemented in some of the men's prisons that would be beneficial for women. For example, some of the work training things that might have to do more with the trades in addition to what we have for college entrance. I understand that. Yeah. I'm coming from the point where you know we know that women have different needs from men. Absolutely. And if we get more programs than men, I'm all for it because women have so much more different needs. Okay, great. I'm not going to argue with that. Senator Kim, you can give us everything you want to.
Are the childers are the That's right. That's right. There's so many things. So that's why I also feel that you're going to compare against you know the range and quality of what men get. I think we're shortch changing our women. We're short changing ourselves. We should identify what are the needs of our women in the prisons and we need to go after that program whether the men have it or not. Yeah, we should identify those programs and not try to make it comparable to what the men are getting. And if we get more, then they better come and fight us and give them equals of the women instead of the women trying to get equal to the men. Yeah. You know, there actually is a wonderful report um the uh I'm sorry. Yes, there was a a report made actually to the house um in 2019 that is a wonderful blueprint for what should be happening to uh change things um in the prison system both for women and for men.
Um so one of the things that passed last year was the implement the women's um prison corrections implementation commission. Um, but I agree with you that I would love for us to look at what's the gold standard across the country and then the trick is then to make it happen. I think that the reason the wording is as it is is because it was based on the parody statute. But despite of what the gold standard might be across the country, you know, Hawaii is unique. Maybe it maybe might have to exceed that. We want to be in different areas. So, I really think that we need to identify what it is that the women need and then we need to go ahead and implement that. Um, I couldn't agree with you more. It it seems to be getting implemented. That's the issue. And there's less women that are incarcerated, so we can afford to spend more money on them because per per inmate what it costs to to programs for the men, they might not have it.
And so, to compare it against that, whereas because it's a smaller number, we can provide more and and tailor it to what So, are you saying that you would like to um change the language to have it address um studying? Uh well, I don't even want it to be studied. I think we kind of know. I think if you sat down with the women, we could almost identify what are the programs, where are the gaps, and I rather take this $120,000 for more and utilize it right away to start filling in that instead of waiting for a study and then talking about the study and then trying to that's another couple years. So, what would be the vehicle for making that happen to make that funding be used to improve um programming in the women's prison? I would like us to put in what are some of the kinds of programs we've already started with the bill prior to this.
Yes. Counseling and so forth. You know, that needs to be We could certainly give you a list. Yeah. I can't begin to say what the need, right? I think it's, you know, you can almost tell what are some of those, right? And we do have a report that was made in 2019 that outlines that. So, I don't know that we have to wait for another. Yeah. All right. Thank you.
for any questions? Okay, thank you. We're going to move on to the last measure on this agenda. That is Senate Bill 712 relating to corrections. We have Tommy Johnson. Yes. Chair Wai, um Vice Chair Ricardo Kim, and members of the committee. Again, um Tommy Johnson apologizes. He had a family matter today. I'm here in his place. Michael Hoffman, acting deputy director for corrections at this time.
Um you know, and again, for um sake of brevity, we'll we'll stand on our testimony and we're here to stand by if you have any questions. Thank you, Mr. Kristen Johnson from the Correctional System Oversight Commission. Hello, chair, vice chair, and members of the committee. My name is Kristen Johnson. I'm the oversight coordinator for the Hawaii Correctional System Oversight Commission. The commission um strongly supports this bill and stands by the written testimony. But if I can just throw in a couple additional notes, um I think it's important to highlight that um the vast majority of people who are in custody um have really horrific trauma histories and trauma can uh manifest in many many different ways based on the environment that they're in. And so it's really really important for officers to be aware of this, to know what to look for. Um and then just be more prepared so that if an incident does occur, you know, they can take a more therapeutic uh approach.