Okay. Um, could you make copies and before electronic, could you make copies of the books and loan those out rather than just um putting the book out? There is some fair use if there was a book that was destroyed that we could reproduce that book and make it available. But in general, we don't produce copies of books and then that's that's copyright violation. So, this is where I'm concerned because um a onetime fee, you know, we talked about I think it was yesterday or maybe the day before these days blend together about intellectual property and this is in effect what we're talking about which is the copyright law. And so I'm sensitive to that and I don't disagree your statement. I think you have a contractual issue that needs to get worked out. But I'm concerned about just saying well I pay for one fee and I have free use of it for the rest of them.
I don't think that's fair to an author. So, I think there's got to be some middle ground going in there and to have access to a book that we don't own. I I don't disagree with that statement. So, I think I think there's more work needs to be done, but I think going all the way the on the other side, I don't think that's quite appropriate either. So, thank you, chair. Thank you. Thank you for the questions. Thank you, Stacy. Thank you. Um, is the Ag here? Can you come forward, please? We don't have testimony from you. I'm not sure if testimony was provided or we just did this. So, can you address the issues that uh Mr. Lily discussed that this will be litigated? Um, I apologize. I'm not I don't have Mr. Lou's testimony in front of me, so I don't think that I can speak on behalf of the department.
what I can do is to go back and look at his testimony and provide a written response to you. Okay. Thank you. And uh we will make sure that you get a copy of the testimony. Okay. Moving on. Senate Bill 540 relating to House Bill 540 relating to education beginning with the year 2023 2024 requires Department of Education and public charter schools to provide free breakfast and lunch to all enrolled students. appropriates funds to testify. Superintendent, please. Good afternoon, Chair Kani, Vice Chair M Kim, members of the committee. Hello, Randy Tanaka, Department of Education. On behalf of uh the Department of Education, we stand by our testimony submitted.
Any questions? So willing to ask answer can you please provide the testimony Randy so that the public can hear it? No. So the department uh supports the concept of universal meals for all our our our students. uh there is an uh economic issue that we have to address in terms of funding this. Um I will tell you that there is some degree of trending across the country to provide more meals for those that can't afford meals. Um the so the department's position is to continue to try to reach that goal and feed feeding the the kids that can't afford but the motion in front of us is really to feed all the all the children both breakfast and lunch. So that's we're we're supporting that position. The estimated cost for the department is giving is almost $64 million. That that is correct. And can you um also you talked about well the superintendent's uh testimony talks about um a negative balance of approximately $100,000 statewide as of December 2022.
What is that from non-payment of lunches? Um, I'm not exactly sure what that that 100,000 because I I think that's it's close to the number that we're we're carrying right now for non-payment, but I I don't think that's I'm not sure if that's related to the the shortfall. Okay. So, could they clarify what what that means? Thank you, Randy. Thank you. Next to testify, Ivan La State Public Charter School Commission. Good afternoon, Chair Kedani, Vice Chair Mado Kim, and members of the committee. Ivon La on behalf of the Charter School Commission. Um, we offer our comments on this bill. We deeply appreciate the inclusion of our charter school students, but I think there's um some significant differences in the way that our schools are structured and they struggle um to with facilities funding for one, but um right now we only have about 20 of our 37 charter schools participating in the National School Lunch Program and there's been some significant delays in the payment of that.
Um many of our schools have trouble even uh finding a vendor that could meet the requirements. So, while we do support that all of our public school students should have access to free breakfast and and lunch, um it's the it's the you know the operationalizing of that and we would ask that you work with the department to find a way to do that. But to require all of our schools to do that would put a pretty big significant financial burden on them. So, are you asking us to amend it to not require the state charter school commission to do this? Well, yeah. I I I think the commission also is not structured in the same way that the department is. Um each charter school is considered its own um food ser uh food agency and so they would have they have to apply to the national school lunch program individually which causes a lot of the problems in funding and the fiscal side of of you know operationalizing school lunches for many of our charter schools.
So, I I would I would love to be able to see a statewide program that covers all of our public school students in the most efficient way possible. And I think um the department's been very kind to try to um think of ways to do that. And I think as Tanaka has been, you know, trying to pursue those options and I think we would like to continue working with the department to find that solution. Thank you, Sure. Um, let's finish our Okay. testifiers first. Thank you. Nate Hicks, food with access policy advocacy for Hawaii Public Health Institute. Well, chair, vice chair, members of the committee, Nate Hicks, Hawaii Public Health Institute, stand in strong support of this measure. Uh, food is an essential part of the school day. uh without food, students aren't able to learn at the best that they can and the education suffers as a result.
Uh Minnesota actually just passed a similar bill on Friday and uh to much fanfare, a lot of press coverage, a lot of positive folks. Uh and a lot of studies have been showing that uh when New York City implemented this program, uh test scores improved for those students who previously weren't on free lunch by the equivalent of an additional 6 to 10 weeks of school. um our education system will be better as a result. It's not just about making sure kids can eat. Um we're going to have a huge return on investment as well. Appreciate the opportunity to testify in the hall. Thank you, Ne. Next to testify, HSTA. Aloha chairs and members of the committee. Lever Moore on behalf of Osuli, president of the Hawaii State Teachers Association. HSDA supports House Bill 540 and we stand on our written testimony and I want to make a point that our gap families what we're finding by the end of the month our children are going without lunch and what is happening is the teachers are providing snacks for them in order for them to make it during the rest of the day.
So this is an important deal for our students. Thank you. Thank you Leverne. Next to testify, State Council on Developmental Disabilities Executive Administrator Dry Bartois. Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. My name is Nick Bryan. I'm an intern with the state council. Um, and we stand our written testimony in support. Thank you. Thank you, Nick. Next to testify, an Horuchi, Deputy Attorney General. Good afternoon, Chair Kadani, Vice Kim, members, and for Department of the Attorney General. As we set forth in our testimony, there are four instances in the bill where it mistakenly refers to lunch and provisions concerning school breakfast. Um because different regulations apply to school breakfast and lunches, we've suggested the um provisions to address these drafting errors and it's set forth in our testimony those four places where the word needs to be replaced. Thank you. I'll be available for questions.
Thank you. Next to testify for Hawaii FOC, Daniela. Aloha, Chair Kadani, Vice Chair, members of the committee. Um thank you for hearing this bill. Um, we stand in strong support at Hawaii Apple Seed. Um, mainly because federal eligibility for free or reduced price meals requires that households earn below 130% of the federal poverty level. So that's about a little over $44,000 annually. Um, but we know that um it takes between about 70 and 80,000 uh to live in Hawaii as far as like the Alice population goes. So those uh that eligibility is actually leaving out a lot of a lot of students and we think that this will help to cover that gap as um our HSTAR was mentioning. Um the other thing I wanted to note um I think I we've been advocating for this to include charter schools. So I wanted to address what um the charter school commission said in their testimony.
Um we would hope that um because this bill does um explicitly appropriate funds to the Hawaii Child Nutrition Program Office that oversees not just school food services branch which um is all the public schools but all the charter schools as well that there could be a solution there um for making sure that the reimbursements reach those schools in time. So thank you so much for hearing my testimony. Thank you. Next to testify for Hawaii Hunger Action Network, Jordan Smith. Aloha, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. My name is Jordan. I'm speaking in support of HB540 on behalf of the Hawaii Hunger Action Network, a statewide network of advocates dedicated to ensuring all people in Hawaii have enough food to live healthy, dignified, and productive lives. Um, as mentioned, Hawaii is one of more than 20 states across the nation currently considering universal free school meals legislation.
And like the 50 pages of supportive testimony received today, we are all in agreement that we owe our students equal access to nutritious school meals. Uh the conversation really comes down to cost. So I implore the legislature to request more details from the Department of Education on how they arrived at their cost estimates. Two different local advocacy organizations and the National Food Research and Action Center have run cost estimates for Hawaii. And these estimates come uh nowhere close to the figures being proposed by the department. I continue to be shocked by the pages of testimony from children and teachers sharing their firsthand experience of watching their students and peers be denied meals and hope the legislature can support and pass this bill. Thank you. Thank you. Um that concludes the um testimony, but there are about 30 written testimonies with comments and mostly in support.
The last testifier, Konyi Def Franco, are you still there? You're not present on Zoom. Well, thank you. I was wondering what the cost was that they had since they saved We'll look for that. Um, members questions. Chair had question for charter school. Thanks. Um, you support the intent but the application of it is the problem, right? So because each charter school is considered its own school food authority, they have to administer they have to, you know, if they have the facility, the kitchen, if they don't have the facility kitchen, they have to find a vendor that meets the national school lunch program requirements. And that oftentimes is a challenge for many of our schools, especially in our rural areas. Um so that's why we only have 20 out of our 30 charter schools currently participating in the national school lunch entry program. Um and even for those that are participating um you know because the the reimbursement uh there's delays in reimbursement the schools are end up carrying that cost.
And with our charter schools that impacts their bottom line and they have to you know they have a financial um piece that they've got to make sure their school is meeting. So we are putting an extra burden on them as well. It so to say that it's not that anybody wants to not have this program. I would love for all of our students to be um participating but the you know to put that burden on our charter schools um without requisite funding and again facilities and sometimes just availability of school lunches um is problematic for many of our schools. And I think I we had uh Charter School Network testify that they they do also have trouble trying to procure um school lunches. So we would love to be able to work with the department to find ways to to maximize the opportunity to provide school lunches to all of our children.
Okay. And you mentioned rural schools. I'm going to assume then we're talking more of our neighbor island schools than Kawahu. Yes. Okay. Okay. And then are we in violation of anything if we are not able to supply the free lunch to our church? I'm not aware that it violates u any particular state law. Um I think it's a voluntary program for the national school lunch program for for schools to participate in. Okay. just I know some of those real. So I think a lot of the the charter schools the parents bring their own lunch or the school might some of them will just try to find food for their children. All right. Thank you. Thank you chair. Further questions members not really a question but um Nate on the testimony that you provided you spoke about some of the data points you know like New York and stuff.
I don't know if it's in one of these um uh sites that she listed at the bottom of your testimony for some of that statistics. Is it part of that? I didn't read all that. No, I do apologize. I've been doing more research as this Minnesota bill just came out and I stumbled upon this and it was not included in my testimony, but I can forward it out to you. Thank you. Yeah, sure. [Music] Do I I understand your testimony regarding the cost. So, where would the monies come despite what the cost might be, whether it's your numbers or the numbers that they're saying, uh, where would this monies come from? It it would have to be subsidized by the state. Okay. So the pie for the state is only so big, right? And I know we have um we may have a surplus this year, but it's not sustaining.
So it's something that we're looking at like one-time things, but the forecast down the road. Uh so if that's the case, then where where would we cut to provide for for the program? And I think this is a realistic question because I know everybody comes in and speak on different bills that cost money, but when you look at the broad picture like we have to because certainly there's concerns about, you know, having the kids with all the school supplies that they need, having the transportation for our kids to get to the school. There's concerns in wanting pre preschool, early education, early college, air conditioning in the classrooms. um you know so there's a lot of need and so what do we prioritize so is it fair to ask the DOE to provide us what what they prioritize because we have CIP we have facilities falling down breaking down there you know roof leaking classrooms not enough classrooms um so how do we prioritize as to what is you know should food be at the top of the list maybe not so much transportation or not so much air conditioning.
I don't know. I mean, these are the concerns because there's also need for nurses in the school, psychologists in the I mean the teachers that used to just only teach now have to be more than just teachers, right? And so many of them don't want to go into teaching because it's not what it used to be like. Um, so how do we prioritize this because money is not unlimited? And Senator, it it is an outstanding question because the means are not unlimited. We have to live within our means. Yet there is there is evidence that a well-fed child is much more productive. And the name of our game is to get them to a place where they're well educated. They're they they can critically think. And I agree with everyone. I think food is an essential part. how we prioritize that um with the the litany of things that have to be done like you and and we're not even talking sped all of the other stuff that comes with it.
So, it's a it's a tough economic decision and you're absolutely right. How do we sustain this revenue to pay for this cost? Um because once you have an entitlement, it's hard to you can't get rid of an entitlement. I mean, you have K it was first through 12. No one K through 12 to be an entitlement and then now it's been four years old, three years old and that's fine. I'm not saying I'm against it. I'm just saying at some point something has to give. So how do we prioritize to make sure that those things most important? If it's school lunch that's most important, you know, how do we prioritize it? Because at the end of the day, something's got to give. And here's my thought that if it's for the schools that you got to take the money from K through 12, right? I mean, there'll be some supplemental monies can come in, but at some point we're going to steal from Peter to pay for Paul.
So, somebody suffers down the road. It's, you know, I don't have an answer for that. I don't envy your positions on trying to make this thing work. I think the department is coming upon us to to help provide information for you. What like you say, transportation. Does a senior require transportation? Does a junior? And that's where we tried to work with the bus passes and and move along in that area. We've tried in, you know, just like energy, right? We've got a jump of nearly $20 million. What are we doing that it's the the two sides of the same coin. What are we doing to reduce our energy use? Those those are things we are working on. Will we get there fast enough? Senator, I I I can't give you a straight answer on that, but I hear what you're saying. So I I just would like the public to understand when they come in and testify, it's not that we oppose or something.