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wood was creating and now six of them are okay and I know that I'm biting the hand that fed us they they went and reviewed and they now approved but my point is this that this is the position that the city was taking long ago and with this particular one there is going to be no I mean no fear that there's going to be a major problem and we're willing to back it up we just don't want to go fix something for twenty thousand dollars that doesn't need to be fixed right now what was that ticket I believe it was after our last BBA meeting yeah so there's a second video the first video was back in 2014 now there was a second video that we took because they asked us to that's one we have to know so the second video we found to still not be acceptable the concerns were the amount of water and still the dip yeah well the dip was essentially holding water water right but what isn't what are the sandy waters for low issue this slope from start to finish was an acceptable correct but somewhere in between that we yeah and then at the end of it of course so that so let's say it goes down pretty hard and then there's there's a dip but then goes back down right at the city there's no water at the actual mean there's a dip so it's clear that at some point if the flow is slow enough there will be water there but it does push it out but last thing I want to say I promise of by the logic that they saw a video in 2014 on the other cases for let's say one case for example and it was unacceptable but then in 2018-19 they see a video and is now acceptable can't we just wait five years to see if the video in five years in this case makes it acceptable because that's what happened the video in 2014 was unacceptable and then we took another video in 2018 December and now it's acceptable so why don't we just wait by that logic and obviously it's kind of ludicrous for me to say that but that's what happened we didn't make any new changes any anything and it was okay by the city standards why can't that happen in this case I'm being sort of facetious but you seem like you're not understanding what I'm saying yeah I mean well since you invited to me my understanding of variance is a variance is greater when a system or process is used that doesn't meet the letter of the code but meets the intent the standing water here clearly shows that it doesn't meet the intent of the code so I don't think variance is applicable here and warranties and all of those other things are thorny issues at best so I I mean I can't support the request for a grant Sarah matter what would you four years of it working isn't good for you well it's it's you said it's there's a single person there no it's it's miss Brooks and her daughter I'm okay but it's not a particularly heavy use that could change actually just just a quick question is this a combined sewer does it takes does it take storm storm and or basement I've never been on site to see that because it's not the house is actually old enough that it was before the companion sewers you wouldn't necessarily a foundation drain tied into it correct so it's a sole source yes okay lord have any other questions or comments from city staff let's see we have a question for me all right is there position for a motion on this attack above and that's yet okay give us a few minutes here [Applause] the position that is deficient well this is what I just I have a part so I just just ask whether the quick question of clarification that's so the permit was granted in 2014 and the michigan certificate of compliance for this system was granted in 2017 just to know how they were able to pull a permit at the time at the time the front staff were not asking what type of material you were using for the CI PP piping good so the permit was issued then the work was completed and it wasn't till later in 2016 that we figured out which product it was and that it was in fact not approved and that's why the inspection didn't take place until after the L&K product was approved and then they had to go to the state to get the approval on the I think we've had this discussion on something else that's probably can I add that the state approval is not necessary to do business and use the product but it's a way to guarantee that the state has approved it this is a product that's used thousands of thousands of miles throughout the country so and that's a completely different issue but that's I guess I'll just add that I mean the the very thing that poor remember heart was mentioning of it says a Board of Appeals may attach in writing any condition in connection with the granting of a variance that in his judgement is necessary to protect the health safety and welfare of the people of this state which would include subsequent homeowners I would I would think and so that the powers there it's a question of the discretion of the board I'm sorry the power is therefore for a cook if you think that there is a concern that will pose a threat to the state of the people with the state of Michigan's health welfare you can impose a condition that is part of the granting of the variance you can say we'll give you the variance but here's the condition and if you violate that condition we revoke the variance that's what the statute clearly 15/15 clearly provides that subsection 2 that's what I was reading from I wouldn't know what condition to put on it because if I started doing that I'd be designing the code I mean and we've had a discussion on putting a condition with regard to performance of the piping and / - ax T or whatever and the problems with having that well the last the last go round the day what I think it was an episode in ASTM standard that was quoted and I think David harnessed or looked through it he didn't see that the that any belying or anything was in there as part of the an acceptable standard or not a standard and that an acceptable exception to use it to doing that lining system it actually is in there and that's what SOP 501 well it's all about I think that's what that's what was pointed out was that the SOP SOP 501 included some indication that I'm a certain amount of irregularity in the pipe or the slope of the pipe was acceptable because it was an existing condition nobody found it within the ASTM and I don't standards it was included in the last pocket it's in there that manufacturers recommended installation procedures and that's it's both it's a common the SOP 501 is a combination of the ASTM whatever number it is and the manufacturers insulation the manufacturers insulation sites the and I'm trying to find it I don't think it's in this one but I'm pretty sure these are these dips and all that are permissible even per the per the standard but you bring up a great point the city themselves had that step well this was a stolen you were aware of that no I found it by accident so it's you would think that the city would have brought it to our attention because it's something that they applied in other CI PP installations but what you know I know I don't know what they did in the past I'm telling you that there's we went to appeal before this board I may have seventeen knows no such discussion of the 501 and so but that's that's outside of today ok so just as a matter of procedure because I noticed a need I think the initial staff report that they didn't after we denied the appeal they didn't go to the state for to get a higher level of interpretation they go free to the Construction Co Commission for approval against your decision okay and so if this variance is denied they have that option to do so yes well actually that's not completely correct I mean mo of so of variance the state code can take it up in their discretion it's not an automatic it's not an automatic appeal the appeal its automatic but a variance request can pull it up I just looked at this today they they can take it if circumstances warranted but in a variance they really want to defer to the local boards that's why it's not an automatic appeal so that's that is procedurally different and I just asked if there is going to be a denial of this if we could put the findings of facts or whatever you base it on on the record because the statute requires that but also I mean I really don't want to go to the the state construction board or whatever they're called but that's this is the only evidence they get to see is this hearing well transcription process yeah I'm saying I'm saying it's fine but what I'm saying whatever your basis or reasoning is I'd like it to be set forth on an audio here so we can we can it we can understand if I may just say something about that really what it is is is there a practical difficulty if there is then that's the finding of fact that is you say what it is if there is no practical difficulty and this is a decision for the board there's that's the absence of a fact so it is true that you can't be arbitrary but the board has to apply the standard and if there are facts that meet the standard there affects that meet the standard if there aren't they're earned and that's your call can I say one last thing about the 80s I found it the 80s M standard F 12 16 12 14 or 12 16 and then it goes by the year at 7.14 and this is what the SOP was based on it indicates the original pipeline should be clear of obstructions such as solid strap joints protruding service connections crush or collapse pipe and reductions in the cross sectional area of more than 40% that will prevent the insertion of the resin impregnated to then that's what it that's what it talks about it's okay but that's not the word dip no it's not in there no and that's and I think that's it that's the point is that is that I mean the way I understand it is that those technical criteria that you just elaborated have to do with the ability to actually do the installation of the liner and and has nothing to do with the fact that you know the the slope may not be perfect it's to make sure that the liner can can be properly installed to eight point seven provides variations from true line and grade may be inherent because of conditions of the original piping okay it's fine you're gonna fine just make sure you explain it for us so we can have it on the record okay so could I have that ASTM standard again just the number that I was reading you well not that not Oh F 1216 is there any preference to where we would table the issue and allow you to do an appeal to the construction board as opposed to denying you the variance now and then having you do the appeal well I don't think procedurally I can appeal your decision until you've made one okay we've made one less that's a different that's the appeal on whether or not I was in violation this is not about that we agree that we're on violation this is about whether there can be a variance from that violation just so we're clear and it doesn't seem like that's very clear mr.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
winters yes yeah this is a different this is me saying we are in violation yes of that slope statute but the practical difficulties are presented such that we're asking for a Barrett to be allowed to vary from that violation from that application of to past 20-some years have been on this board it's the first time that an applicant comes before us it's basically the same thing and now he's saying the first one was for something different we threw you the video we had this discussion in November but there's no need for me to argue about what happened in November that's that's what confused me but way that one more thing yes sir to the file that ASTM standard I don't believe is approved currently by the state of Michigan okay I wasn't going to I mean it wasn't planning to quote but I just wanted to know mmm so we using the ASTM 1216 standard at the city wrote its own standard of procedure is not approved by the state is that what you're saying so that standard is not shown on our code books currently has not been approved and put in the Carlos okay so what the 10 goes to they don't know what that means the median understand lifetime has a variety of definitions depending on who the vendor is well I mean there are other things I'll try this mmm I moved that in the matter of BB a 19-0 zero one that the appeal for a variance from the 2009 Michigan residential code p300 five point three for the work performed by rotor MD at 1612 1625 well phone is granted under exception J and section 104 of the residential code to allow for moderate moderate deviations from the p300 v building code i'm sorry from the prescribed slope in the p 305 building code and that a the performance of the CI PP installation is adequate for its intended use and does not substantially deviate from the performance required by the code for the health safety and welfare the people of the state and b the specific condition claimed by the applicant is neither is so general nor recurrent in nature as to make the variance an amendment of the code and that see that failure of the system due to the existing slope deviation will be rectified by the contractor without condition within the 12-year warranty offered by the contractor Wouter MD clearify the last part shall be rectified yes rectified by the contractor without condition so you're ruling the fine print yes without extending the length of it within the 12 years because I lifetime means I mean how do you define lifetime so so we're expecting them to correct the deficiencies within the next eight years in essence a they had four years in eight years to go then you hit the twelve year you expect them to rectify the dip in the scope it was twelve all right how about within the 12-year warranty offered by the contractor from the date of this hearing to you oh she's gone who is that first that first part clear enough yeah yeah okay because I had to backtrack on make sure I got that insert so I would assume also we need to find out if they would if the contract is agreeable to that because if not then it's denied it's your responsibility to say that to the attorney that's the limitation oh yeah I'm having trouble understanding the limitation we are supposed to fix it within 12 years of well you offered a 12 year warranty yes and I'm like the condition is that it's not going to be the cost to the homeowner and that it twelve years we'll be running from today yes but what will not be at the cost of the homeowner the cost to rectify the repair of the system of the system in case it fails I got you fails beyond like if there's any kind of backup any sort of thing like that yes yeah okay I got you you're essentially saying that you agree to extend the warranty without conditions that Mister would personally or his company would pay for and rectify if there's a failure because I'm perfectly fine and agreeing to and it's I like that it's on the on the record here because we're fine to agree to that and that is we understand I mean understand what what I'm trying to do we're trying to construct this emotion is something that is acceptable to to the city and to the homeowner because I don't think the homeowner should be on the hook for for agreeing to using to using a particular system to which they probably have no understanding technical understanding at all I mean if I was a homeowner and somebody came to me and said look I can make this work and instead of digging up that your entire yard and doing all of this with $20,000 I can do it for a quarter of the cost and it will be perfectly fine I mean as an as a homeowner probably going to say sure that sounds terrific and the assumption is going to be that the guy who's doing the work has got everything covered as far as acceptability to code and permitting and the whole the whole thing so I so really so that's so that's the reason for the last the last condition is that that warranty is but if something goes wrong mm-hmm it's not going to be a warranty that's couched in the dozens of technical minutiae it's going to be a broad-based if it fails you guys have been your client will fix enforcement of warranty Oh whether it's enforceable oh how will it get enforced that's it we going to over gen'l'men sure gets enforced well I mean that to go it just goes back to the value of the thing fails the walk the columnar homeowner goes back in five days and said within five days of the failure and says I have a failure and then somebody has to come out and determine whether the failure falls within the terms of the warranty and if there's a dispute then it becomes finger-pointing in the lawsuit though and meanwhile the system is shut down and it's not functioning but that's that's the case with anything that gets done I mean any work that gets done give me it can be warranted until it's not so I mean you know what this is really it's it's it's it's a leap of faith to get this thing most moved forward and resolved especially in light of the fact that it was some accommodation reached on all the others but you know going forward that has to be some kind of stricter application of the code or better understanding of what the expectation is going to be so that this doesn't become a repeat performance because I don't get the feeling that that there is something like that in place the other I think like Zack had done previously it sent me paper copy and I think he needs to pass it by particularly involved okay I think that with all due respect just lightening this to a council meeting that I don't know if we can replay it at this point but it's generally the the council person the person who's making emotion writes it out for themselves and I know but that is being done and it's not easy I'm not saying making a decision coming up with emotion is a difficult matter but I think what is best is to state it on the record as clearly as possible and it may take a little bit and then that's I think the best we can do can i I took a stab at some language I know that the motion hasn't even really been made but what we what we'd be willing to do I think provided that mr Wood is personally liable though personally responsible to correct any failure to the sewer line at the home within ten years of today's date this is rough but we're confident everything's gonna be okay and if there's a backup he's got to go and deal with it and personally not just his company that that's you know some language that I I thought and also through if we could add personally I would like to add something in there suggesting that should the property be sold that the buyer is well aware and at that point if a buyer asks for it to be repaired or whatever because I'm more concerned about the next person knowing that as much as I am about the present lady and her daughter but at what point at the point at the time of the date that they purchase it and they find that there's a problem or it should you obviously reveal to the potential buyer that there's a variance in place with criteria so that the buyer then can decide if that's acceptable or not make it part of their negotiation or whatever I don't care but if that and I think it's important that the next owner potential owner you know I think Miss Brooks is required there's a I'm sure we've all seen it and selling homes there's a disclosure I think in that disclosure she's likely if there's a dissing these conditions would make it to the each racket system and a variance would be mentioned in there she probably has a responsibility to disclose it to a purchaser I mean I don't know how we can do it but we'd be willing to say we can we can send you know information to someone in to the home in five years or something I don't know but my bling which travels with the home not just the homeowner it's for this specific home alrighty I just want to be comfortable it should they decide to sell in four years that the buyer is well aware they're potential buyers well aware that there's these caveats in place if that's the case or not okay okay so something to the effect of and this is this is a trial this is not good a part of the motion that the conditions of this variance at warranty will be conveyed in writing to any future owner of the property within the term the term limit of the warranty yes okay and then you wanted or you asked for any problems will be rectified personally well I was providing sample language to it looks like you're trying to extend this warranty to other homes and we're removing some parts of the warranty which I understand there's a non transferability clause that would have to be gone all that can be worked out I mean however you want to put the condition I'm not an attorney so I mean I can only I can only do what I can do to try to garret to try to safeguard the art or to provide for an accommodation of this mess I can't I can't construct all the ins and outs and legal parameters that might govern this I understand I mean you know ultimately look ultimately anybody has a problem well I mean everybody will be back in court to debate whether or not what was said is really intended the point of this is basically to try to put some kind of additional condition on this on this variance so that the system is protected within a reasonable amount of time of the warranty that was being offered but that it wouldn't be subject to to a myriad of conditions that it would be that it would be a more broad brush and open warranty and that's the intent and you know and I mean we have yet to vote on this so sure it's gonna fly but but that's the intent so there's an element of trying to be fair to everybody involved mmm that you know the system has so far been reliable but that there's some provision that it will continue to be reliable and that the homeowner isn't going to be on the hook for the repair and replacement how can this how can a potential buyer be I had one suggestion make mr.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
wood have to email or shoot my office email the home but that email sent a letter to the home and I don't know every year and say brick just in and they if they want to follow up on the issue they can I make it more work here but I'm just good faith here I realized when somebody is selling the house they have to say that there's certain things that have gone on in the house that been that are not prepared or that they had a water leak for some reason and they now fixed it that type of disclosure it's yes and there's a section for plumbing and that's where Miss Brooks would say we had this issue but we can't just rely on Miss Brooks to okay do this but that's where it would be communicated we can't put it on the city if I may address the board yes this is relying on promises their words on paper and I believe that the board is trying to do the right and fair thing but if it's not enforceable the city cannot amend the work on an amendment of the warranty it's the board can do what they want to do but I want to make sure that the board understands that this how this is going to be enforced it is whatever mr.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
Rodriguez I guess says that I guess somehow he's going to enforce it and mr. wood is going to self enforce go through the emotion again sure I can do it again you can do that so we have things so should I eat for the sake of the camera and the record strike the previous motion and start all over it cool so this is the new motions I'm I moved that in BBA 1900 won the appeal for a variance from the 2009 Michigan residential code p300 5.3 for the work performed by Rooter MD and 1625 watham in Ann Arbor is granted under exception J of the rehabilitation code and section 104 of the residential code to allow for a moderate deviations from the prescribed slope in the p300 v building code and that a the performance of the CI PP installation is adequate for its intended use does not substantially deviate from the performance required by the code for the health safety and welfare of the people of the state and B the specific condition claimed by the applicant is neither so general nor recurrent in nature as to make the variance an amendment of the code and then see failure of the system due to the slope deviation doot-doot to the existing slope deviation will be rectified by the contractor without condition within the 12-year warranty offered by the contract from the date of this hearing and Addie the conditions of this variance and warranty will be conveyed in writing to any future owner of the property within the term limit of the warranty good if I could just ask for one clarification conveyed by the contractor to subsequent owners and attorney and present owner because part of mr.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
Rodriguez's point is that the present owner is not liable for the Clockers is liable for the cost of the repair and we're putting in stipulations on their saying if it performs well life is good but she should be part of this of approval I meant to say that okay I I can live with that as well and I'm just asking for clarification that it's not somehow the city that is supposed to do that that's pretty much round coming yes right because we basically feel the contractors liable but she's been told that she's liable and I think that's a disconnect that would be of a concern to me right yeah we will explain to Miss Brooks that she should fill out whoever's if she ever sells let's see it's item number seven it says any plumbing problems put it in you're supposed to do that was that please put it in writing to her service connects explaining verbally but we will also do something about it not I understand she's required to by Michigan love we will also follow up on so how do I include him contractor and contractors attorney so I propose to modify item D of previous motion to read the conditions of this variance and warranty will be conveyed in writing by the current owner and/or its legal counsel and the contractor and/or its legal counsel to any future owner of this property within the term limit of the warranty twelve years okay so clear covers everything it's clear to me okay as much as we can at this point clear we have the motion is there a second second we halt second we have to second it now okay motion has been made and seconded all those in favor aye aye those opposed and we suggest taking for clarity taking a roll call on that roll call on the vote Hugh flake no Gordon berry no pop hi yes can winters yes to to to motion is not passed yeah that should close though and that means that the variances variance is not granted so just as a quick point of information we do have a quorum yes I believe that the Kristen you said that there was yes we have the quorum hey just so I'm clear I heard someone say absent for that there are two board members missing Oscar we won't follow up on this there are board members missing the the meetings started with the roll call vote and there is a quorum you and I could look back and make sure that that is the case oh yeah no I'm just I wanted that the names is if mr.
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darling and then there was its mr. irons story okay just wondering thank you all right thank you and we'll get a copy of that denial okay I just wait it's gonna be you were writing that all out is that what happened that is motion that was made and it did not pass I understand I wanted there's a record of the motion that was right you can you order the video okay all right okay thank you okay anyone have old business anyone was new business any reports or communications is there public commentary no comment and motion for adjournment please snow moved motion second second all those in favor aye motion is passed and we are adjourned at 3:02 you
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good morning hallo today is February 26 2009 TM is the 111th day of cool this is w ba Chi Minh's I am Lexie and I am tested today for lunch there will be mozzarella 16 broccoli plus red pepper strawberries and milk tomorrow for breakfast there will be cinnamon roll fresh apples orange juice and muck we have some friends operating birthdays do it on a camel he can stack the older and zirmaya errors please go down just a bit your birthday looks yesterday's fun fact question was new bulimic a star what is the name of the book the answer is Gloria the winner is Rosie McManus and keen coil sky comes the office to pick out your prize today's one if not question is what fruit one dry is called a prune remember to write your answer neatly and include your name in class and now we will observe a brief period of silence to reflect on the anticipated activities of the day we stand for the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all have a tropical tuesday and remember kindness comes everyday everywhere thanks for watching bye
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good morning with hello today is February 25th 2019 it is the hundredth 10th day of school I am Lexi and I am come today for lunch there will be Burnett chicken patty sandwiches baked fries cherry tomato oranges and no tomorrow breakfast nothing John Kerry's apple juice and though we have snoops friends not reading birthdays Benjamin Concannon Madison clack Michael Moran painting HeLa please come to the office to pick out your birthday books yesterday's for the fact question was what material did the second baby is to this house the answer is sticks the winner is Lily em and kima Nicci come to y'all just enjoy your prize today's fun fact question is in the movie Madagascar what is the name of the hippo remember tyre and sidon even close we have a special announcement this week's lucky winners for the special shooting with a friend at lunch are Alana and flora Coolidge Matthew and for woman's Sophia and for fester Leah and three Glover Josh and three Glover Elijah uh three came in at No 1 to N castor and Jonah and to cash Center and tens and grew into a master [Music] please stand for the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all of america monday and remember kindness counts every day everywhere thanks for watching
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good morning big Hollow today it's February 25th 2019 it is 110th day of school this is WB h e news I am mrs. Axl sick and I am mrs. Pfister today for lunch there will be breaded chicken heavy sandwich baked fries cherry tomatoes oranges and milk tomorrow for breakfast there will be muffin graham crackers dried cherries apple juice and milk we have some friends celebrating birthdays today Benjamin Kincannon Madison clack Michael Moran and Peyton Bouvier please go to the office to pick out a birthday book yesterday's funk that question was what material did the second little pig use to build his house the answer is sticks and the winner is Lily from team Davichi come to the office and pick out your prize today's fun fact question is in the movie Madagascar what is the name of the hippo remember to write your answer neatly and include your name and request we have a special announcement this week's lucky winners for special seating with a friend at lunch are Alejandro and for coolidge Mithu and for woods Sofia and for Pfister Leah from three Glover Josh from three Glover Elijah from three Kenan Noah from to Lancaster and Joanna from two casts better and town is from to Lancaster now we will observe a brief period of silence to reflect on anticipated activities of the day please stand for the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all have a magical Monday and remember kindness counts every day everywhere thanks for watching
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[Music] welcome to meet the court I'm your host Joe Johnson meet the court has brought to you as a public service by the Superior Court of New Jersey in Atlantic and Cape May counties as well as the Cape May Technical High School to better inform you the public on the workings of the court and the role of the judiciary in our communities today's topic expungements how does this complex legal process work here to guide us through this process our guests managing attorney for South Jersey legal services James McLean welcome Jim good to be here Thank You Jerrod and frequent contributor and guests to the show assistant trial court administrator Joe Hal welcome back Joe thanks happy to be back so Jill you'll get us started just explain to us why would somebody need an expungement well Jawad imagine the worst thing you've ever done the biggest mistake you've ever made maybe you hurt somebody's feelings maybe you really embarrassed yourself now imagine having to write that incident down every time you applied for a job or applied for housing or a loan or a mortgage that's what someone with a criminal record has to do even if you know 10 years has passed since they made that mistake so an expungement sounds like a technical term what is it an expungement is the extraction and isolation of everywhere that someone's arrest or conviction shows in the public eye so where the arrest shows at the police station the municipal court the Superior Court the prosecutor's office the probation division it's not a deletion of the arrest of the conviction but it's just an isolation so the public can view it any more so Jim you must give folks come to your office for assistance with these type of matters so what are the type of eligibility requirements that exist to get records expunged well there are a number of factors that we look at in determining whether or not someone's eligible for an expungement we look at the nature of the offense the number of offenses committed we look at whether or not someone's been granted an expungement before how much time is elapsed between the completion of the sentence for the underlying conviction or convictions and the filing of the expungement petition we also look at whether or not the person has been granted PTI or has received a conditional discharge or other super supervisory program but the eligibility is the first item that we have to determine before proceeding okay so I come to you with a complex history I've got a complex background and I've got multiple indictable offences can i expunge those it depends generally you can expunge one indictable offense that's a crime of the first second third or fourth degree here in New Jersey or one indictable plus for disorderly persons or petty this early person's offenses but there's also a way that you can expunge more than one indictable offense and more than a few disorderly persons offenses and that depends on when the offenses were committed and by that I mean if the offenses were interdependent upon each other and they were committed within a relatively short period of time as a continuing sequence of events you can have more offenses expunged moreover if the offenses that you're seeking to have expunged are listed in a single judgment of conviction you can also expunge multiple offenses okay so you talked about weekend I could expunge a combination of indictable and disorderly persons offenses if I needed to do that some higher level offenses with lower level offenses that's correct okay so can all criminal convictions be expunged no not all criminal convictions the most serious criminal convictions like murder kidnapping robbery that type of thing those are non expungeable offenses and those cannot be expunged under any circumstances okay so I've been convicted of a crime and now I want an expungement how long do I have to wait before I seek one it depends on the grading of the offense recently the expungement laws have changed it used to be that you had to wait 10 years from the completion of your sentence for indictable offense before you could file a petition for expungement but the legislature has lessened that to six years for disorderly in petty different persons offenses it's five years juvenile juvenile delinquency record three years an ordinance violation two years drug court graduation immediately okay so you talked about the expungement of juvenile delinquency do the same rules apply can I seek in a expungement of a juvenile delinquent adjudication yes you can it's the same as if you were an adult in terms of the nature of the offense the only difference would be for a juvenile record again you only have to wait three years as opposed to if you're an adult and you have an indictable offense where petty to sorely persons or disraeli persons offense will be five years and there are exceptions to the waiting periods as well if you can show that it's in the public interest to have the court grant an expungement before the six years elapsed as long as you have waited at least five years then you can seek an expungement at that time so there are what they call public interest exceptions or early pathway okay so what I haven't heard is about motor vehicle arrests or convictions for motor vehicle expensive offenses can they be expunged no they can't Jawad only criminal offenses can be expunged those are offenses that are listed under the Criminal Code of the state of New Jersey motor vehicle offenses come under the motor vehicle statutes so they're not considered criminal in nature well that's an interesting distinction this is meet the court and I'm your host Jawad Johnson we'll be back with our guests Jim McLean and Joe hawk discussing expungement after this message hello my name is Tom Haggerty I'm a sergeant came to county sheriff's office some of the things you should know when you enter any of our courthouses is once you come in they're gonna be screened by an officer at the front desk so what you should not have on you is any weapons tools anything that want to slow down that process you're gonna come in put all your metal objects up on the counter step through the metal detector listening to the officers direction once you step through go let you know whether you can continue on or whether you should stop if he stops you you may have to be wanted detect anything else you may have on you that that's not picking on so to speed your your trip along with this I'll come in because there may be lines when you come in and there may be delays so you want to get here early and you also welcome back to meet the court I'm your host Joe Johnson here with our guest Jim McLean and Joe Howe and if you just tuned in we've been discussing expungements or the clearing of a criminal record so Jill if someone has open charges can they apply for an expungement if someone has open charges they can't expunge any convictions they could expunge an arrest that's been dismissed or they've been acquitted or a diversion opportunity but no convictions can be expunged if someone has open charges so they can expunge an arrest record why would they want to do such a thing it's if someone has been arrested and the case was never proven and the charge was dismissed or the person was found not guilty they're actually eligible for what's called an expedited expungement so that can be there's no waiting period it's expungement than a week or two seems like that would help them if they were looking for a job with law enforcement or something like that in the future so there has to be a cost to this if someone is still making payments on fines to various courts can they do they have to pay those fines first before they'll be eligible for an expungement it depends if the fall waiting period has expired six years on an indictable or five years on a disorderly person charge they don't have to pay the fines and fees in full though they do have to show the court that they did make their best effort to pay those fines and fees on an ordinance violation though everything must be paid in full earlier you mentioned drug recovery court and folks being eligible there if a person has completed and graduated from drug recovery court what are their options for getting their records expunged someone that graduated successfully from recovery / drug court can have their entire record expunged even if they have more than four convictions even if they have more than one indictable conviction if someone graduated prior to April 2016 they are required to file the paperwork on their own that we do provide that person with a lot of extra help because they tend to have more arrests than the average person but they would have to file in the county where they were sentenced to drug court anyone that's graduated drug court offer after April 2016 the public defender's office files all the paperwork for them and they basically just have to sit back and wait for the record to be expunged okay so I we touched on how much the cost of paying old fines would be how about the cost to file the paperwork itself does it cost anything it's a $75 filing fee however that can be waived if the person is indigent they do have to fill out an extra form to ask the court to waive the fee the the costs comes in where all of the paperwork has to be mailed certified which can cost about $3 per mailing and some people can have to mail to you know 20 different mailings so that's where the cost you know that cost cannot be waived and those cost can't be waived because it's the United States Post Office well let's say I have something in multiple counties I've got charges in various different counties what county do I file in for to have my record expunged in all of those counties where the person would file wherever the indictable conviction if they have one occurred so even if they have one indictable conviction in Atlantic and say three shoplifting convictions in Cumberland County they would file in Atlantic if all they have is disorderly persons offenses then they would file where the most recent one occurred okay how about out-of-state I've got an out-of-state conviction I'm living in New Jersey now starting my life over again am I eligible to file in New Jersey as long as you're still under the you know for convictions or like Jim explained if you are allowed to expunge the multiple indictable convictions an out of state record actually does count towards the number of convictions and you must list all of those charges on your petition however the out of state charge does have to be the equivalent of a New Jersey conviction so for example in most states in America driving while intoxicated is actually a felony or a misdemeanor offense here it's still a traffic offence so if someone has multiple duis in another state that would not count against them here as their you know their conviction count but they would still have to list them so start to finish how long can someone who is looking for an expungement expect the process to take as long as the person mails everything very quickly and does their own follow-up the expungement process can take it can be granted in about two months the waiting period comes in for all of the agencies to remove the person's record from their system currently the state police have about a six month backlog so they're they keep everyone's fingerprint records so that is the most important record that needs to be expunged so it can take about eight months for the entire process in order for someone to actually say they don't have a record anymore so how does someone who needs to know you said you need to have all of your infamy or charge information how does someone get all that history so they can complete their paperwork well if someone has a very minimal record they can just go to that Municipal Court where they remember their charges were disposed of or Superior Court and they can get you know a record of the disposition we if we have an expungement seminar if the judiciary hosts an expungement seminar we do help people and provide them with with their records as well and also people can get fingerprinted it's about a sixty five dollar charge Jimmy won't come into you with expungements what from your position your standpoint has been some of the challenges that folks face trying to get expungements some of them have challenges because they don't recall much about what they did and therefore we have to rely upon records either provided through the FBI or through the state of New Jersey excuse me the cost unfortunately for people who are doing it themselves unless they can prove that they're indigent they do you know have to incur the fingerprinting fee as well as the filing fee and the cost of the certified mail if our office or any South Jersey legal services office represents someone they don't have to pay the filing fee they only fee that they would have to pay would be the cost of fingerprinting we even do all the certified mailing for them so about thirty seconds it sounds like South Jersey legal services is a great benefit to the community because they can provide services like for expungement mm-hmm that's correct yeah we handle we handle lots of them and it really opens a lot of doors for our clients both in terms of securing housing and getting jobs well that sounds like an excellent excellent service to the community this is meet the court I'm your host Awad Johnson and we'll be back with our guests Jim McLean and Joe Howe after this message hello again some of the things that you should know when you're entering the courtroom is there's a certain courtroom etiquette is expected of you you should come in quietly take a seat remain quiet at all times you should remove any coverings on your head hats hoodies sit down take any cell phones turn them completely off and have them away if they're a scene out they can be confiscated there's an officer that usually sits in the front of the room he is there for the judges safety as well as the public safety so if you're going to ask him a question stead of just throwing it out or getting up and approaching him get his attention attention discreetly raise your hand and he will approach you and it asks a question at a quiet level thank you welcome back to meet the court I'm your host Joe Johnson and we've been discussing the expungement process with our guests Jim McLean and Joe Hal so Jill we were discussing at the break sometimes folks may go 10 20 maybe 30 years before they decide to do this and if they have charges from that many years ago and they can't recall the details of the extent of their charges how do they find out if they're eligible for this type of service that person should really get fingerprinted it's about a $65 fee the directions can be found on the New Jersey State Police website but it that once they get that record then they could bring that to Jim or I and we could look at it and tell them whether they were eligible or not and a person you know they come and they get their paperwork to file but they find it complicated or they can't read as well there's maybe some literacy issues there they don't speak the language is there anyone that can help them complete the forms the judiciary will help the person if they come to the court user Resource Center at the Atlanta County Superior courthouse in Atlantic City you know and and also South Jersey legal services will help them complete the paperwork excellent I hear that the court user Resource Center has a wonderful Ombudsperson there that just awesome and really into helping members of the public so that's definitely the whole staff is great and they're all great yeah they should come and visit so Joe another question for you is it necessary for me to appear in court to testify in favor of the expungement if there's no objection from an agency that holds the criminal record is there any reasons to appear no the actual hearing date is more due date for all the agencies where the person's record exists to object or object to the expungement basically saying you know I don't think John Smith is eligible no news is good news is what I say if someone doesn't hear back from the prosecutor's office or the court before their hearing date that means the expungement is going to be granted and the person just has to wait to get their expungement order in the mail if if a hearing is necessary then the person would be notified okay and not holding you to any numbers but guesstimate how many times do you get challenges from other agencies when an expungement someone attempts an expungement the biggest challenge is usually that the person forgets an arrest usually we don't have a lot of people that are ineligible applying people pretty much know you know that they check before they go through all of the paperwork to see if they're eligible or not more often than not you know someone had an arrest in Egg Harbor City back in 1986 that they forgot about and they just have to amend their paperwork to include those offenses okay so Jim how many expungements can I get you can only get one Jerrod just one per lifetime okay so does that mean I have to include every single criminal charge that I've ever had in my time I get one bite at the Apple as they say yes okay so how do I respond to a question about arrests and convictions the dreaded box if you will following a expungement generally you can answer that truthfully by saying no you've never had an arrest or conviction once those charges have been expunged however there are certain exceptions for instance if your fine for a job with law enforcement or the courts or a correctional Department you would have to disclose that as well as any judge who may be sentencing you for a new criminal offense following the expungement they would look at that as well as the correction department correction Department in determining where to house you but generally speaking you can truthfully answer no I've never had any convictions so is that the the ways that you named are those the ways that expungement records can be used can they ever be used beyond those ways checking your status for law enforcement employment or the sentencing for another judge that's right it's limited to those so can an expungement ever be recalled they're nullified in any type of way yes the quick answer is yes it's very rare but if you lie in your expungement petition and then it comes to light it can be the expungement order can be vacated or nullified also if you have any pending criminal charges that you did not disclose on your expungement petition and it's discovered within five years also the expungement order can be vacated and nullified so I've heard antidotes where someone comes in and says that they spoke to the court and they told them they're not eligible for an expungement but then they went and spoke to an attorney and told them that they are eligible and all they have to do is pay $1,500 who's correct the court okay this is practicing law is a commercial enterprise so it's in an attorney's best interest to give someone hope that they may be eligible for an expungement but if you go to court and meet with a member of the staff like at the Resource Center and they've gone through everything and have determined that you're not eligible I would go with the court staff so is your your your suggestion that they go and seek information from the court first before they go and try to put the wheels in motion for an expungement yes either the courts or earth legal services program so Joe you talked a little bit about challenges before what would you think be the biggest challenge that someone would face the biggest fear and how should they overcome it I think people are very intimidated by the paperwork it can be voluminous it can be a little bit confusing I mean sometimes I find it confusing and I work for the court but we tell people it's very tedious but it is worth it it's a long process but you know at the end you get to say no I don't have a criminal record so just don't be afraid to ask for help there are people there that will help people fill out the paperwork Jim there may be some viewers who are watching this and says and they may say it sounds soft on crime to me can you tell me why this is a public benefit and how this isn't soft on crime but actually restorative justice well the purpose of an expungement is to give someone who may have made a mistake a fresh start kind of like a bankruptcy if you think about it it's not meant to help criminals who commit repeated offenses to expunge their records it's meant to help those people who have rehabilitated themselves and have gone on to live a crime-free life basically following the their convictions so 30 seconds for each of you just give me some endorsement of why you think that folks who are in this position should come to get an expungement as soon as they can jail we'll start with you an expungement can be a life altering experience you like I said you can move on from that mistake you made and not have to keep reliving it every single time you apply for a job or apply for housing or a loan you don't have to disclose it anymore Jim from your perspective yes Jawad we've also seen at legal services that many of our clients were seeking either public or subsidized housing have a very difficult time securing that housing but for the expungement and like Jill mentioned with jobs there are so many jobs that require a criminal background check especially in Atlantic City with the casinos and the casino licensing so getting an expungement really opens a lot more doors so it certainly seems like expungement is the first step in the road back well that's all the time we have for today I'd like to thank our guests for joining us and I'd like to thank you for being with us for meet the court I'm your host Joe Johnson goodbye [Music] you [Music]
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good morning Bigelow today is February 27 2009 teen it is the peaceful this is whe news I'm Sophie and I am Lexi today for once there will be mini pancakes sausage patty cucumber potato orange juice milk tomorrow for breakfast there will be banana bread graham crackers orange have scribbles and milk we do not have a buggy celebrating right place today if we miss your birthday please build an office and pick out your birthday book and happy birthday yesterday's fun fact question was what fruit when dry is called fruit the answer is a plum the winner is isn't today's the big question is what is the name of the underwater ecosystem held together by calcium carbonate structures that are home to many sea creatures including concept remember to write your engine eat me and include your name in class we have a special announcement some fourth graders came up with an awesome idea called healthy homeless you can help by bringing in coats clothes they don't fit you or that too big Tanith foods snow pants or gloves you can put them in a fourth grade pie in the big boxes please help the homeless and now we will do three fiorina silence you reflect upon the anticipate activities of the day please stand for the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United reminder to turn ugly plates cameras you under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all have a wooden tree was insane and remember tiny counts every day everywhere thanks for watching bye
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again thank you mrs. angle are members of the board members the public thank you for joining us tonight back in 2015 the then school board engaged dr. Susan Redford to conduct a demographic study and that study was shared with the public in this room with many of you here and that really provided some guidance for us over the next several years now we all drive around Avon and we see the growth we see the growth in our own neighborhoods and so we can't help wondering what's different in 2019 than it was in 2015 and so last fall please come join us we're delighted you could make it last fall the board elected to engage dr. Ludwig again to conduct another demographic study dr. Britvic has been with the board in other sessions to give up the preliminary view but now dr. Berg big is here today to share the final demographic study with us and with our public we should note that the meeting is being live-streamed for those who can't be here tonight it's also being recorded because even if you can't be here tonight we might not have the time to look at it but we'll have the opportunity also to put the final demographic study itself online so that you can get the study as you walked in this evening you probably I hope that you picked up a five page PowerPoint summary these says these are the main points that dr.
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Berg will be addressing tonight because that will help you as well and we didn't think she was gonna make it and I'm so grateful she pushed through and is here and just delighted to have her because it's so important all right everyone got some folks over here I've got a board over here so I'm going to be going like this a little bit but tonight I want to share it with you basically the demographic studying and just give you some sense of what we looked at first of all we started with it says eighteen 2018-19 that basically means we started with beginning of the school year okay so when I mentioned in like school years I'm basically talking variation between within a school year but we're basically saying putting up stake in the ground and saying you're always going to be looking at all so looking back 10 years essentially what has gone on with enrollment here in the school district and this is total its fall enrollment it's also ADM so average daily membership that's all really because that's where a lot of the funding comes from so it's our speed numbers and we're all for just looking at K through 12 and we're turning into governor's people because actually we didn't use to count them in that way they used to be kind of half days so they're just variations in numbers or something like that and going back so this is from year to year actually another thing to look at this is net change so you know we have those students who leave and students who come in you know there can always be it was like a churn the butter but we're just kind of mentioned where the butter it's a net number and that number is always one thing it's really important to know this ten year period here it's always above zero that's pretty significant that doesn't happen in a lot of school districts I think we're at 292 school districts or something like that the state of Indiana that doesn't happen in all all school districts it's very common though or maybe it's sort of common in a suburban area one like a time where people want to come come to the where homes are being built another thing on in this graphic that's - no is there a residents as well as non-residents or only alcohol transfer students so the residents are students who reside here in the township the non-residents are some students who might live someplace else might live in Danville might live in a Township Mike Linden Brownsburg but choose to be schooled here some of these students are employees as well of the district and if I recall correctly there's an HR policy in place to allow this but also students who come from outside the district do which alright I'm a business professor so I can say that so this is a basically ten year period I think this is really important to note here is especially in this area just consistently above zero that's really important so kind of visualize this a little bit peaks and valleys a little bit and then I'm going to go to the next one which is really doable notice how that kind of mirrors and essentially that is what's going on kind of you might know that we had a building bust in this county in this state nationwide [Music] it occurred about here so there's nothing unusual here with the township matter of fact this is still for this period pretty sizable building compared to many areas so it moves very well and so when I do a forecast this is one thing that will key what's happening from year to year as well as what's happening with home building potential construction we've seen it go on I did a little leather drive driving around today and earlier potentially up to about 1500 Lots in which could be built you know for instance right across the way over here there is a fairly large development that have slots I could be built and they're still building as well Turner traits I'm talking about that's that's something that was put in place before this and you know I know it's really many times we'd like to be interested in specific locations right what's going on in my backyard or across the way or you know over on the other side that's 36 and I am just looking overall what's going on across the board so that's another thing just because a whole lot homes not being built in you know when you look up the description window doesn't mean that it's not going on in other places one thing that I've been asked over time to look at was on average how many children can be born or or let me rephrase that how many children are in new homes and there's more than one source of this I'm pulling here from data it is called we love our acronyms a HS American Housing Survey okay so American Housing Survey is conducted every once in a while this one was conducted back in 2011 that was the best that we had in Indianapolis Metropolitan Area and I pulled some data for Hendrix and Johnson because the idea here is I'm trying to find areas that are like you the data is not perfect it's a survey but I'm trying to find areas that are like you and what can we say about that one thing that we learned when we did that was basically for every 100 homes that are built there's about 80 kids and now we're talking about new construction we're talking about homes that were built in the last four years we go to another data set and we ask another acronym American Community Survey ACS and they find the data just a little bit differently it's Johnson in Clark you might say what's coming Clark County is suburban Louisville it's an Indiana County but it's suburban Louisville and what we learned then with this with this data is that when a house is about ten years old you have two children so we are seeing even though it's not perfect for this area Breanna Stephen numbers that are kind of consistent and give us some indication of what's to expect another thing I think is really important about this data is when a home is older children are older or children eat out right so it is important to really focus on some of those newer homes another thing that's really important I'm going to put these side-by-side that's ACS in that speech a HS four years old ten years old both of these types of homes were talking about preschool kids as well we often don't think about the kids that are not yet in this school so a home the links really important we include that in part of the forecast and we're looking not just as school-aged children but we're also looking at your preschool age its countywide data so it is for offenders county so I've got to do some manipulation of the data and some regression and to make sure that I got the numbers and estimate the township correctly but what's interesting about this data and what makes it so very valuable is this data is based on the place of residence of mom was that mean well it means that mother have the baby here somewhere else Wishard one of the children's hospitals even the term shortens hospital and since again your mom's going to be coming here okay so it doesn't matter where baby is born it matters where my lips so so if you think about 2007 we're talking about a child who is now probably about age 11 it's also key so if we're seeing some bubbles and I think about these in this bubble some blips grade 5 probably a fairly large cohort moving through the district right and those children will be moving on in intermediate levels as well as high school 2007 also is a really important year because this was the first time statewide nationwide that we had a level of burst Eclipse the baby boom 50 years previous I think about this how really significant that is but that was the first time nationwide statewide and County why that we had a number that high and it eclipsed the baby boom and it was a one-off year rather than if you think about the baby baby but that actually happened so that's over 18 1850 1850 babies born and since then we have gone back to that number so that's also we've seen kind of this this note has come down another way to think about that and what that would suggest would mean in general you would expect fewer elementary students unless housing compensates that's kind of just another way to think about what's going these levels are fairly steady so those children are preschool age and will be elementary so another way to say is your elementary moments particularly early elementary are not expected to dip at all matter of fact may increase with everything dotted is a forecast I'm using data for the Indian from the Indiana Business Research Center as well as as well as data from the nation and we're basically saying we might get back to here somewhere out of here still that 2007 number is still but we're going to use this data this is Venapro records another thing you look at is this data does not necessarily reflect residents because children are private schools can go to the school of their choice but these are areas area so one thing we're looking at and this would be 2018-19 this would be the school year school enrollment decline over time since 2000 so it's pretty much across the board and in occurring over time on the other hand what we've seen this is American Community Survey and it's specific to this commission and this is basically a snapshot of percentage of children resident of this Township attending public school and you can see since 2005 basically that estimate that percentage has gone out now this is a survey it does have a margin of error right and that's what that plus or minus means but I think the trend is really important you can see what the trend is right right certainly the trend is going up so on average more children are attending public school rather than private school and the reason some of these are in red is this is the first time these last two estimated years that the margin of error was actually statistically significant meaning yes it really is but it is an estimate it is a survey and there was a margin in here but I think the trends very clear and then statistically the last two years are different than the first two years in history all right so putting all this together lots of words up here basically what it means is we're putting together the assumption now I'm going to say something that's maybe not what you want to hear but there's no one right number right there's there's basically assumptions and there's reasonable assumptions of the future none of us really has a crystal ball but in terms of planning and what to expect we have to get to some point say this is so what do we think is the most reasonable well we're going to see the burst of County residents continue to increase we're going to have some building of this we are actually seeing yeah building out of existing subdivisions assuming that we'll have ease congestion that can be a barrier to people wanting to live in a community or Lulla to community we're gonna expect to see an increase in the number of new housing units above and beyond current level so this will be called the base forecast or estimated forecast where we're saying 500 per year ten years out now we're just like over 300 ish we're assuming 500 per year ten years out things that we don't know about you know we can always have some changes in the public and private balance in plaintiff it doesn't even have to be in this district that could could have an impact one thing that we've talked about is the board before is this concept of Aging in Place what happens when you have a family mom and dad are in the household and kids are gone do they age in that household what we call Aging in place or do they sell that house and make room essentially for a new family this is still something a pattern we don't know very well we're watching it the word we don't have a specific assumption about that so it is important articulate that and we're not anticipating in any deviation from transfer students and we can talk about that maybe if that's we're not we're seeing a trend in the increase in sham transfers so what would enrollment look like in ten years out about ten thousand seven hundred that's an increase of about a thousand students the last ten years looking at four different grade levels actually are in the next draft Elementary to about 36 3,700 elementary grades 5 through 6 from 1500 to about 1650 that's increase of about 150 students you can see how some especially we need some of these smaller ones great 7 & 8 from about 1500 to about 1750 computer years and for the high school students from about 3,100 to about 36 10 years and so going into high school now there's a one right number and so we do build a forecast with a low forecast and tight for cats largely driven by differences in our assumptions so the base forecast is at about five and the way I like to think about these scenarios is really it's the what if what if building return to lower levels and they are now what if building actually almost you know like hyper building yeah really strong strong growth like growth that might have occurred here say it in 2004-2005 when there was and that would be a high forecast what would occur in those situations so what would occur the high forecast lots of kids lots of students going out to over 13,000 students with basically a doubling and a little bit more so it I like thinking about it that way because that kind of gives you almost a gut check what would have to happen so what the kind of building you'd see around you right now would have to double and this would have to occur over time to get to this this low forecast this will forecast the big takeaway idea is 1690 660 is not very different from ninety seven twenty Willy that's not very differently looking at ten years and that was one building that was coming down a little bit that's actually insightful that means it's very unlikely your enrollments are going to define your home building would have to come down for your Romans just to decline a little bit that's another way to think about it so I think that's a really kind of thing by the insight to take away from that it's very unlikely and those will decide comparing us to maybe communities that have the development that's like 55 and older I've worked with a developer who is looking for land because the demographic says that Hendricks County and actually who further west does not have a sufficient amount of those type of developments in community that does have enough if there's actually a number do those aging-in-place families or adults do they tend to move to those areas or do they do you see that kind of outfits and they actually you know moving out of their home and into those facilities how do you see that with your demographic stance I mean I think there's a couple of things one is people will come back to live with the brain baby right so you do get people coming from outside what I don't know specifically is what has occurred here with the del Webb community in Plainfield and there's also del Webb community Ansan which isn't too far north of Brownsburg and I don't know the specifics about that like I do know that Anson has had some difficulty with growth just the development itself but I would you know really answer that question I think we have to look a little bit at what's going on in places okay I can tell you what's going on with del Webb community in hamilton southeastern and people are moving out of their homes in that community so they can stay near family and then leaves now a house rather than a house being built the house that is basically at least own market with children and that but that's also a very different market yes right Hamilton Southeastern is and has been for many many years the fastest growing school district in the state of Indiana so so I'm hesitant to answer that question specifically because I do think it's very community specific yes and that's fair because I was surprised by their demographic study that our area and going west is short compared to other communities and of course there's now going to be a very large but going in just in between Danville and a modern so to meet that need dr.
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predict I have a question about the buildable Lots that you say are presently in player about 1500 right and then in your excuse me in your forecast you show that on the low end in the next 10 years there would be two hundred and thirty units is that per year or is that in total so that a couple of questions that I would have it there are 1500 buildable or could be buildable I think that was your quote blocks it is there Democrats making information that would say what the increase in that that inventory is on a per ear basis in other words if there is 1500 now and say the third of those gets built in the next year then would a 15 with 500 houses being built be replenished by potentially 500 additional blocks that's an assumption yes I have that's a really good question I haven't tracked the availability over time okay great yeah and that's it that's it yeah because I think when I would we should know about that is just how quickly do buildable watts turn into actual housing yeah kiddos in them right that would join our school and you know that's another one's got so much variability you you know when you're talking about who's a builder who's not a builder is a custom or is it not custom you know and I think about turnip traits it's a really good example and how it's I think that personally it's a beautiful community that's why I know so much about it and and there it's something versus others aren't quite like that right yeah and so you know even though a lot of these are highly local decisions even that at that level is very difficult to estimate but I'm gonna totally understand what you're saying is because I mean it's important yeah another thing that I think impacts our community is non-residential but not in our communities to our north jobs continue to be warehousing jobs industry retail another continue to grow in Brownsburg because obviously they have access to i-74 and play fields same with i-70 and it seems that our community is where they live and send their children to school and then they work in those two communities so wouldn't there be also some benefit and looking at the impact factors of how much more industry can really be built and how many more jobs could really be garnered in communities which I mean one would have to say that the path the future predictor is best predicted by the past so if ours is that where they live in and send children to school then industry increase in those two if it is increasing with continued to impact us and I agree with that I also believe that the like American Housing Survey they asked people why did you choose where you live jobs are not at the top of that right Community Schools and so it's kind of a it's kind of a flip and so to give you a little context background I think is almost ashamed to say about 25 years ago when I first sent in the graphics they forget and then it was all the talk was United United United United was a Airport right the hub was coming in by the way it's not right right and and it was a question and it's totally legitimate right and like people are gonna choose this community and are gonna shift on this as people are gonna choose community and then can you do the job and and I do believe the data pretty much say that and speak to it yes I don't do agree with you right especially where the interstate is you know 25 years ago we were talking about it 865 you know now kind of its quasi Ronald Reagan but that's what we were talking about what would also impact that that's you know so yeah I totally agree but I think community means more to individuals they'll commute right folks will will Traverse us 36 to live here you know I think that's a really important the thing always you're right it but it's like what's most proximate what's and then the last thing that I think might be noteworthy for our public especially those viewing is that dr.
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Brad Vick did complete prior demographic study for us and I think it would be important for you to talk about the accuracy of the prediction of that because I think it lends credibility to the accuracy of the credibility of this one sure so I think this slides in here and I'm gonna zip through it really quick just to make sure I find it yes sorted so you don't have this handout apologies but it's kind of in Bekaa so this was all our forecast in 2016 and this was what the enrollment was and two years I was off about so over two years I was off a hundred students I was off a good chunk of that was transfer students so those who don't live here and then about it's almost 70 with students that live here so that means over I was 35 students off one year and 35 students off when you get down to it but I think another thing that's really important about this is I was too low and that's also a reason why I'm here but it was within this range remember I get I showed the range and so ultimately I was too low but I was within 1% per year and I was in within the range and that's really the goal kind of the goal for me as before not like within 1% so and then this slide is 2016 to 2018 so yeah yeah and then I did a draft and then that's the bottom line and I still was too low so that's why when we went back and we retweet the 40 but my recollection is the first what was the first time that you came and engaged with us Oh 15 and I had I had forecast be really really really close now this is multiple years by like like wonder I might be you know tend to hot you know and things like that but over time this is what the snapshot was yeah so I think I talked about that with another staff member earlier today and so in even with this number thumb something some of the specific school level numbers might be really really good you you pointed out the 8hs data is this so this is true for us like when you went through our house he dated it was pretty accurate that we have 180 adults and 80 children so we then could assume from that as neighborhoods come on for every hundred homes that are built we will probably see a that's in it right and we've seen that we've seen this over time as well as with other districts the cautions I would say is first of all this is a gross no you know so at the end of the day we're looking at net so you might see people coming in but you've gotta remember there's also people potentially going correct this isn't net this is gross this is gross right still a survey that's estimated that includes Hendrix and Johnson okay now when I do your specific forecast I'm actually tying homebuilding directly to your grade level changes so it's you need the in specific okay further back slides are more specific to yes okay because that is very helpful in our planning as we look at the various entries and the needs that formula is very dense so reduce so this is then higher than this would be higher this would be higher on average right on average but what percentage would you well and what I would do is I would look at the homebuilding okay that's the forecast because that's where it's been tied and if you're seeing it higher or lower than that things should align okay window I would also it very helpful formula for the next few years exactly what I'm trying to okay yeah you know in the looking at the ranges I think where the pain points are can I can I jump ahead you mind just so you know in faced with decisions like you folks are faced with decisions I would looking at slide 19 or that slide for any grade level and say what point is this is a moment of 10,000 something that we have to address there's another way to think about that or for grades 5 through 6 or perhaps this one hey school is at what is 4,000 the point where it's a pain point we have to address it and what does that mean and well that's one way to think about that is that that's 4,000 a pain point right that's why I pick I wasn't making any judgment exact number but it does also is a way you know whatever numbers you just kind of track that and you can then what's reject to reality huh right we could be in a lower trajectory we could be on a higher trajectory and that tells you a little bit about your timing as well as what is most possible the thing about the high school is odds are this enrollment forecast is pretty not right because you got you've gotten in seventh grade and eighth grade together again fifth grade in the sixth grade you got them in elementary so right we all have a program people want to stay there choosing not to go somewhere else so you've got on and yes there's uncertainty that's why there's not a variation here yes there's uncertainty but there's actually probably more certainty in this forecast than any other because you kids are this may be a mission for you but it may also be a question for our school leadership as you just pointed out a question that is well defined in this is what are we gonna do this 450 new high school students good news of the thousand is that only 200 of the elementary because some of our Elementary's our first empathise and some couldn't probably handle another class patootie so is there a way to go into the underlying data we know what permits are already Abreu's into our boundary perhaps and take those 200 at the elementary level and make some suggestions about how that but you know daddy I am doing total numbers and you may have the seats of mum place and the kids so I think we we are so for the record for those who aren't aware we have seven elementary schools with very defined boundaries and we have a feeder system so that students in k4 will go to a specific Intermediate School and then a specific middle school so they have a tendency to be able to go with a cohort even though we have a number of transitions in our district but when we saw that our schools north of 36 specifically Sycamore and river birch or becoming more crowded than and some of our schools such as maple and pine tree have some room to grow two years ago with the approval of the board we worked with the town and when there was a new development that did not yet have a single home built in it we let the developers and the people that were considering buying homes in that new subdivision know that even though it looks on our map like they would attend a sigma elementary school they'll be going to maple elementary school and that respects our values of keeping neighborhoods together letting people know to the best extent we can when they purchase a home what school their child will be attend and so right now if you look at our map which you can find on our website or in our office it's all color coded but among those different colors there are four different neighborhoods that are white they're outlined in a white color to demonstrate that they are not going to the school to which they would normally be assigned we try to get ahead of that and let the developers and the families know that it's worked out very well so far but that is what we have been doing mr.
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Dana to try to stay ahead of this a little bit as dr. Windham said the town has been great about communicating with us and we appreciate that the developers are good about telling us when they think they will have first children coming to our school district but there's no doubt that we're going to have to continue to address the situation of some schools being more crowded than others and the whole notion that we had an opportunity to talk with our board about during a recent board retreat that our challenges are aggravated at the k4 level by the fact that we have some schools that are larger River virtue elementary with over 800 students is certainly at capacity and is now our second largest school out of 12 schools and then we have some smaller schools maple and white oak and pine tree with you know 300 students or something like that so that creates some challenges and this was a district that for many years was used to redistricting we actually had a class of students that was redistricting three times during their cave for careers now we have not redistricting since river birch opened and so this year's freshmen are last class that has been affected by redistricting so part of the reason we do these demographic studies is we know how important it is to our families to know what schools their children are going to attend we know our families do not want their children moved it's one thing when you're opening up a brand-new Elementary School everyone recognizes we need to move students but when it's simply about balancing schools that doesn't feel good and so we're attempting to stay ahead of it with new developments because we are trying very hard not to have to give any boundary adjustments as long as it's really possible within your in your data do you take in the sales market of existing homes and do you also look at foreclosures [Music] yes I did I have looked at retail the biggest problem with resale data is it's not it's so variable right so home gets listed it gets taken off for whatever reason it gets listed again and/or it goes on to the rental market and gets realistic and that creates what we call noise statistically right so when I've done some of these things and I did test the last time we sell data for this visit for this district it just it just creates so much noise you can't figure out what the signal is right you can't see a pattern and if you tell a statistical program you want to find a pattern they will tell you pattern and it doesn't mean it's the right one so I have not used it explicitly I've tested in a variety of ways and my takeaway from that it's just so variable markets are so different even within school districts and we've had so much change over time with the resale market that to do that would actually be misleading it would be great if it was too great dated because then it would even be you know more data points are good as long as they're good deep I to think that a lot of the kids aren't going to be living with Grandma and Grandpa - you know something's happened or maybe those kids want to come davon I I know a lot of people move to Avon or the schools and I think you know they work somewhere else and but they want to come nave on to to go to this school so I I think that's it don't do all the data everything he does playing people whole community people because certain places are new people or veena or being a certain community the school district there any more questions administrators do have any questions I would love to open it up to the audience I'm sure you have a lot of great thoughts and questions please feel free to stand up and ask questions [Music] we're actually waiting for the 2020 but when did the enrollment forecast those are grade by grade so we use the grade by grade rather than specifically by age it's interesting you mentioned that that came up last month I did another school board meeting with another school district it's the same site but it's like a question and I know it's not a perfect answer but we're gonna get really good data with the 2020 census so we're just one year off of that and the beauty of the 2020 census including for the school district will no black by block whether or not there's children whether or not there's somebody over eighteen will begin to know by census tracts and neighborhoods more of the variability you know in age so you know like a 65 class retired age versus under 18 so we do that for redistricting it's in the Constitution but it actually gives us some wonderful data we can use at the local level my first question is so you really aging-in-place that's really an unknown housing starts but there's really no data to talk about rates of Aging huge unknown and I think we'll find again with the 2020 census will learn more about this but also we can do some of this analysis at larger levels of geographies so that's another problem like we could do a fringe metro can you dive down and that's really one of the big no no worries and that's actually really good spot you could think about them being aggregated differently right so k24 is actually five grade levels 5 through 6 is only 2 7 through 8 is only 2 so if you're seeing comparable increases in 5 & 6 7 & 8 yes because you're seeing just two grade levels at a time and then we're going to four and so so that is the basic and that's actually going to mean that you're starting so typically what we see on average is fewer children per unit now start certainly with like villas patio homes attached doubles I think I would call doubles fewer children per unit and it does not necessarily make intuitive sense but fewer children per multifamily unit on average including fewer children on average and mobile homes I don't think we're talking about that a manufactured housing but that's what we see generally over time now to forecast apartments essentially what we do is we assume there's movements and they're put in but then we assume is a turning butter right so of course the people change but the numbers on the average don't so often what you see is a bump and then that's a level the thing with melting family is on average fewer but there might be warning how do you equate it sit for 3-bedroom it's half and then it's decremented to 2 and 1 so on average we're looking at 8.8 children right for 3 beds that we're looking at on average point and I think that might be a mill in previous happen in the previous studies typically 0.8 on average elder children yes her home we were saying okay thank you because that was a surprise to us we have this notion that apartments brought lots and lots of children to our school district and so dr.
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Rubik research revealed to us that that was not accurate and then we were also able to go and look at every apartment complex that is located in Washington Township and one source of data that we have is our transportation information and so we were able to confirm what you indicated that it's about point 5 students her apartment our motion is I think part of it is is just so many units in a smaller space now I'm an empty nester I'm an agent place guy I'm a four-bedroom house it's been empty for several years but we live there and we continue to like it and continue to improve it and the interest rate in our case being under two percent you know my gosh I'm going to go out and buy a new one and downsize and pay so some of us think those numbers are it's hard to equate but they are in there nothing from the from the town's perspective I think there's a wisdom to keep the housing market fresh to have some growth that's not burdensome to the school but we do have some growth to have new products out there to attract young families no I remember the term that you used honorific with us in the 2015 study was that aging-in-place was a wild card yes and of course we were coming off that recession when many people were fearful about selling their home and you know it does seem that there is more movement now but I like that term a wild card because there are lots of reasons we don't move you our leaders also with Wayne Township and back in the 90s they thought well their growth was done and was over and everybody was Aging in Place and then there was turnover right and then we touch up schools I you know I don't think you're there yeah it's but I mean that's a pattern that happened to your you know to the neighbor so I think it's something it's important to say and mention and you see this often in northern Johnson County I think you're seeing it more Greenwood area it's a different area also it's older on average homes older there than here but at some point moans here will also be as old as those homes are right now and so when that actually occurs this may be one of these things that'll be a wonderful study when we get that 2020 census data because it's such an interesting question that has such ramifications for especially local areas we don't think about smaller levels of geography in this way but it has implications for you know paramedic runs it has implications for any kind of social service in any small area geo right so we have now have this that we could learn through a little little thicker than a binder with even more in depth numbers we've already started looking at you mentioned another dimension that we had a retreat end of January and we started looking at okay what look in each building poll how many students how many do they have and is there development coming is there not development coming are they are they starting to decline in numbers so now that we can take this information we can plug that into the information we received at the end of last month and we can start looking at well what does this mean five years out for this elementary what can we what's this look like for the high school this is so full of gets formulas I look at as formulas because this tells me okay I've now honed in on how many phases are we going to be in these seats are we going to be filling and that's now what we will do over the next couple months next month next two months is we're going to start putting this information into what each building and how do we remedy river birch river birch is at capacity so how do we Bremen II that and so that's the next step that will leap leap for us and administrators want to add to that because that's kind of work that's really work or afternoon we have this major piece to this puzzle so I think if I work hearing the questions that I would have are are we going to be redistricting will there be any boundary adjustments and every year I say we'll make a decision openly publicly at board meetings with conversation and we will make that decision for the following year and I never guarantee anything beyond that so this time last year we said we don't need to adjust boundaries over the coming months the board will have that conversation we've done a lot of work to avoid that we're trying to avoid that so that's one question I would have as a parent another question I might have is how are we going to balance our small schools that have room with our large schools what are we going to do not just bodies it's not a matter of simply moving bodies we want to wrestle with the topic of are all of our students getting equitable experiences equitable education regardless of if they're in a smaller school or a larger school because there are going to be differences and there have been for as long as we've been in Avon we have had some smaller schools and some larger schools so I think that's a conversation we're going to want to have and then over the past two years our school district has accepted limited open enrollment students you'll recall that the year prior to the referendum so this would have been now three years ago the board made a decision to accept a very limited number of students from out side of our boundaries at the k4 level and at the freshman sophomore junior level and that was very hard for our community to understand wait a minute we have these large class sizes why would you take kids from other districts and we did that precisely because they brought with them a sizable amount of foundation tuition of support and we got to say which school they attended and we got to put them in the specific classroom so we were able to say wow maple has a second grade and it has 25 we think that's too many but if we took five open enrollment students we could split that into two classes and actually have smaller class sizes so it was really hard for our parents to understand during the 2017 18 schools excuse me during the 2016-17 school year why we would take students but we did and allowed us to hire nine additional elementary school teachers and allowed us to stave off the referendum so last year the board again at its March meeting made the decision to again accept limited open enrollment students last March March of 2018 at the k4 level and at the nine ten eleven level and again people said why are you doing this and we said because we don't know if we're gonna win that referendum and we have to head to our bets we need to take additional students to be able to reduce our class sizes and so we did then fast forward to May of 2018 we were very fortunate that our community supported our request for a general fund referendum and as a result we have been able to hire a number of both teachers and support staff to help our students be in a smaller environment and have greater opportunities and support that is again thanks to that referendum but we've always said that every year we'll revisit this topic and so in March at our board meeting we will bring a recommendation to the board about whether or not open enrollment is continued does it need to continue and if it should continue should it continue at any particular grade levels and so I want to also mention particularly since some people will be watching this from home that we don't kick kids out once they're here so if they joined us through the open enrollment program as a second grader this year and the board elects not to have open enrollment for the coming year we don't send them away that is not good for children and we do accept employees children as open enrollment so those things won't change but at its March board meeting out the board has an opportunity to digest this and the administration has not opportunity to look at those enrollment trends we will make some recommendations for the board's consideration and so that would be the other question that I as a parent might have will there continue to be open enrollment in the Avon Community Schools for this 2019-20 school year and one of the takeaways I have with this is there's no immediate need to build which I was very relieved when I looked through this I was very relieved by that because that's not that's just not really a road I really wanted to go down and I was hoping our community would be able to avoid that so that's one thing we can take off the table in the media time I'm really glad you say that because you said that mrs.
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Engel hurt and you know that might have been missed by people who don't spend their time looking at these kinds of things but that is important for our community to know because again during the request for the referendum there were lots of people that feared that after we got this referendum we're gonna come right back and ask to raise your taxes to build a new school and we didn't see that happening based on what we knew we also knew he couldn't afford to staff a new school but it is nice to have the data that clearly tell us that we are not going to be building a new building you know in the near term so leap will end on that very positively though any more questions Washington Township if it's great questions alright well thank you again for attending meeting and feel free to contact us if you have any questions after you've had time to think about this as well have a good night
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good morning Mahalo today is February 28 2019 it is the 113 days this is whe news Cassidy and I am Ozzy today today for lunch there will be Domino's Pizza spinach celery sticks fresh apples and now 12 breakfast there will be Oh bill yogurt my name is sunset use and no we we have a friend celebrating a birthday Jill sunny please come to the office to pick out your birthday girl yesterday's fun fact question was what was the name of the ecosystem held together by the calcium carbonates structures are having to what sea creatures what are many sea creatures including clownfish the answer is a coral reef the winner is Andrew and team prospect come to the office to pick out your prize today's what if that question is how many consonants aren't there remember to write your injury neatly and include your name in class we have some special guests hi I'm Heather you can have they're bringing coats clothes I don't fit you can't food snow pants or gloves you can bring them to the fourth grade pod Neville Observer brief period sounds to reflect upon you displayed activities of the day please stand for the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all have a thankful Thursday and remember time is pumps everyday everywhere thanks for watching bye
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good morning McCollum today is March 1st it doesn't mention there's the hundred 14th day school this is whe news I'm off it and I am Lexie today for lunch saw you walking taco brown rice refried beans carrots fresh pears and Melbourne tomorrow for breakfast I will beat banana bread graham crackers fresh apples freebo's mmm wait oh visit and celery lipids this weekend Justin world and Preston wolston please can lost without your birthday but yesterday's finding that question was how many times in its are there the answer is 7 the winner is show not need Shireen up front in Robert come to the office tear out your book today's prize prize tastes month I question is Tony Sean is this a good identity to what superhero remember to write ranch meat and include your name in class we have a special announcement some 4th credits came up with an awesome idea called help the homeless you can help by bring my grenade coats clothes that don't fit you canned food snow pants or gloves you can put them in a fourth grade pot in the big boxes please help the homeless and now you and now we will observe a brief period of silence to reflect upon me to spag activities please stand for the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all have a Friday and remember kindness comes every day everywhere thanks for watching bye
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