And I understand it's difficult to expel. I do. But we should have we should if we don't now we should have the ability to keep our students safe from kids who want to exploit them that they're for they're legally obligated to go to school with. So that's that's my piece and we can discuss it or so I just want to clarify to your points um I this is the plan which is different than the policy. So to your point, you could pass the plan and then revisit both the bullying policy and the sexual harassment policy, both of which allude to cyber bullying and sexual assault um and examples of them which don't yet include these newer examples. So you could certainly add those. I know that the terminology that um is being used in certain um new laws and acts is NCI, non-consensual intimate imagery.
And that's just my personal lived experience. It doesn't mean that there aren't reasons and times I've supported at times doing that because it seemed like the best solution we that available, but there's always a cost that gets paid with it. And even the creative things we've done over the years, I remember like one of my first years here in the district, you brought this concept of the $1 raise to us and it and it didn't make sense at that time, but at some point it made sense because of the circumstances we were in. And I have yet to find anybody in the state that doesn't work in this district that really understands what we did and why we did it. But I do believe at that time that was the best solution. And I've had people tell me that it created more compression, but I can go to a whiteboard with you and show you the math that it actually solved a bunch of compression problems.
So if that's something that you want to add to bullying and your sexual harassment policies, you certainly can. that's different and that's you know a different level than the implementation of what happens when what happens on the ground. So we can certainly do both with with the things that are outlined with these behavioral issues outlined in in the plan. Mhm. Okay. Yeah. Would it not to make it more complicated, but would it be better to come up with a specific cyber bullying policy? Well, it's included. There's a whole section in here on cyber bullying as well as um it's alluded to in your policy um about what that entails. It gives examples of what it is and what it's not and certainly we can add additional examples as more things happen. I also do want to put in a plug that I'm hopeful not only are a lot of people coming to tomorrow night's session with Jill Walsh about the research and the science behind social media and technology.
Bless you. Of course, we have a bunch of other compression problems that happened afterwards, but it like when you're looking at percentages versus flat dollars, there's a form of compression that the flat dollars do a better job with than the than the percentages do. So, so I mean, every solution is something worth consideration. I'm you know me you've heard it from me for a decade it's always the unintended consequences that I'm worried about. Okay. Thank you. I just want to say that I appreciate everybody's perspective and I also appreciate uh the perspective from the board. Uh I know that meeting confer is all about wages and salaries and working conditions. So we can create this uh conditions for success and the success in our field is specifically not building a car, not selling food, not making a profit, but making sure that our kids have the best um skills and knowledge so they can be successful in school uh and beyond high school and and stuff.
Um but the April 30th event which is a follow-up that is going to involve our health teachers and the curriculum that we teach all of our sixth and eighth grade teachers uh students excuse me. Um it's going to have um a principal there to talk about the implications at the school level. We're going to have our school resource officers talk about what they've seen in the community and how it's played out. So, um, it'll be great examples of how this continues to evolve. And I'm sure there'll be something new between now and April 30th that pops up. So, it's an educational opportunity for us as parents and us as educators to realize what's possible, you know, at that date, knowing more is possible and how we can work to prevent it. So I think that having policies that are up to date are important, plans that um our administrators and educators can implement with fidelity is important and education for our parents is important and I'm putting a plea to please come tomorrow and April 30th.
And so I I appreciate that challenge of making sure that everything that we're recommending to establish those uh conditions uh are aligned to that uh one goal. Um for me it wasn't a matter of um saying it's they don't they're parallel things. For me it was just more of like it's the same goal. Make sure that both things are pointing to the same direction rather than to fighting off. And so challenge accepted and I know that we can revise our options in here. I also want to make sure that I raises I want for everybody. What I want for me I want for everyone. Uh but I also know that currently uh with the current salaries that we have we have outstanding people doing outstanding things and then we have other people that are not. And the solution is not to throw more money at those people.
We cannot do this alone. Option tomorrow and a recorded version as someone whose children will be home alone if I leave them. There's going to be a secret recording, but when we tell people that, nobody shows up. Okay. Tell people after. This is being recorded. I know. How many people are watching? [Music] I will say I did get an email from somebody who's watching the recording. So, some people do watch it. Probably not between tomorrow, tonight. Perfect. But to Colleen's point, I agree with revisiting the policy. But the way the this is written I think does cover what you mentioned. Um and then if we revisit the policy I need to go back and change a few words to be more explicit. It's really about having to carve out for this type of um exploitation and it's it's child exploit exploitation very clearly and um I believe that we need to it it needs to be addressed on its own because it is more severe.
There are some people that in in all of positions that regardless of how money we raises or things stipens of women, they're they're not the right person to be in this bus or in that in that position. And so I just want to shout out even with the challenges, the inflation, everything else, for the ones that are doing an fantastic job, thank you on behalf of our children and families, continue to do that. You're appreciated and you are not invisible. And uh I just want to say that in a perfect world will we have money to sustain and to fix everything? We don't. That's the reality. And so we have to do our best uh to align our goal of giving the best chance to our kids with what we have. And we have a lot of uh options. And some of those options are great ideas that we can table or that we can revisit with this guidance.
um the impacts are more severe. Academics are disrupted more so than with someone who's calling names on the bus. It's very different or calling in saying somebody calling someone a name on Snapchat. It is not the same thing. And I don't think we discuss expulsion in this. Yeah. So yeah, there I think there is opportunity there. It is very I know. My daughter is a social worker. She's works at with autistic and special need kids with Brighamin Women's Hospital and there is a case that she was mentioning to me that girl has got deep mental trauma because of probably what something similar to what you said. Yeah, it's real. I also think there's education for everybody involved on both sides to help understand the impact of the behavior. Right? These are children who we need to teach how serious this is on both sides um and the impact of their actions.
uh and there's some others that I'm it's a no at this time and well and I think in relation to the number of options I think it's also important when we do this to consider who who has that who who um is in charge of that option and how much work are we giving them. So we need to look at that too. Are they able to actually do the work that the options require? So, we kind of need to keep that in mind. If it's the curriculum department, well, we can't do curriculum, but whatever it is, we have to think about the people that are doing that task. How much are we putting on their plate that they can do? Okay. Um, Rebecca and then Ariel, and then we're we're going to end this conversation. I'd like to just say something. Um, added to Mr.
And if we are moving towards expulsion, I think we have to make sure that we're setting the expectations and really clear on this is a big deal. It's very serious. The internet lasts forever. like a lot of things that maybe a 11 to 14y old child on both sides doesn't understand. And I do think that the work that our counselors are going to be doing around um trauma-informed practices will help on the school side and we just need parents to help on their side too with making sure that they have access to whatever additional supports they need um with experts. And I will say um unless the law changes in Massachusetts, suspension is hard and expulsion is impossible. Yeah. Y right the law hasn't caught up. Yeah. Is there any legislation I know you've u mentioned it before like fighting for more um fighting for the district's ability to set its own or this the Yes, they they've put something out there.
Carbal um when he said in no disrespect of what you said that us teachers who are in the classroom for 8 to 10 hours a day um that we're doing the best we can and I completely completely agree with that but also when you're a mom of with a family of or you want us to come back to you, Rebecca? No. I just think that we should be especially if you're in a admin or manager, some leadership position in the district. I think that the rhetoric of some of the employees are doing really well and then some of the employees, I'm just paraphrasing, is trash and we should stop throwing money at them. And I'm paraphrasing this and not your exact words. this is how I'm worrying it. I think leadership should be very careful with that rhetoric because I think some of the people that you're probably referring to, not saying you're referring to me or anyone in this room, I think some of the people you might be referring to as not so great employees that we should stop throwing money at, I think some of those employees probably feel the same way about leadership in the district.
I haven't read the details of exactly what that says. Um and I'm happy to do that and report back. Um I'm not sure how much wiggle room they're asking for, but I can imagine with these things popping up that um this is of concern. Yeah, for sharing this data with us. It's very important. I think this is new to everybody and it needs education for on both sides. Um, some kids when they understand the trauma they're going to cause, they might not do what's what they're trying to do. And I think it is important for us to protect our children and look deeper in this issue both educational and policy and plans. Yeah. Does it go from the school level to the law enforcement level? Are you done? If there is potential for criminal charge, then we inform the police department and they do their own separate investigation.
And it's very decisive. I like I like to re to sorry divisive to to respond because that's not what my my message. My message was that money doesn't resolve all of the issues. That's my message. Money doesn't resolve all the issues. I did say I want racist for everybody. What I want for me, I want for everyone and intrinsic motivation to do more and beyond which is proven by the people who at this time we're saying we can't afford things. We have inflation and there's still great employees doing great things. But that's not the rule for everyone. You work with all of them. I'm not I'm not calling names. I'm not saying other I'm just saying the reality that sometimes money doesn't solve everything. And that's why in the past and like this year we have options that are a working conditions and not necessarily about races.
If there is potential for child neglect or abuse, we file a 51A. I thought um specifically like middle schoolers, they weren't allowed to have phones in school. We were they aren't. And um you know, we'll speak to this on April 30th. We've definitely seen fewer instances that we've had to address of things happening during the school day, but after 3:10, the students leave us and they don't come back until 8:40 the next day and all of things that happen outside of school find their way back into the building because the kids are back together again. So, um, legally, would we be able to do something like this where something happens off school time, off school property? If it's bullying and it has an effect on how students are are uh their educational environment in the building, you can. Title N regulations, as you know, with the change administration has been a game of tennis.
Why? Because we need to support other people. That's all I said. Money is not the only solution. It is a great solution and is needed for many employees. Okay, Rebecca, did you want to finish or are you okay? No, I'd like to finish. Move on. Everything about what Miss Carvajal said is completely I agree with. But also, when you're a mom of four or I'm sorry, a family of four and I bring $800 $800 to the table every two weeks, that's not a livable wage. And I know I'm not the only person in this room having those issues, but um and I really took it to offense when um essentially in my own understanding was the board said, "Hey, we pay your we pay your benefits. You should be happy. They don't pay my benefits." And I dole out roughly $600 a month for my family of four.
They changed, they changed again, and now they changed back. The new Title N regulations specifically say that unless that um if the event happens outside of school, there is no action the school will take. It has to happen during the school day. That's as of January something. I apologize for the question, but does that it just burrows down because then you're asking a question of is this dissemination or is this creation, you know, kind of thing and then which it turned kind of into a big I would assume a big legal ball of wax figuring out what our lack of a better word jurisdiction is on preventing or controlling something like this when it does come out and we see it it would fall under essentially bullying. But at the same time, could we be in a situation where our hands are tied even though we have a you a policy about this?
like how is that even like even a like how can we live with that? So that's the only thing I'd like to break. Well, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, and I appreciate your your openness with that. Um, I just have one last comment before I go and I I think it's it's an important perspective because um it really it feels like these two things are at odds with each other and they're and and in my mind they're really not. Um I think they're I think they can be very complimentary. So, one of the things I get very nervous about is us getting into a headsp space where we're like, well, the reason we're talking, you know, maybe raises, maybe not raises is because of student outcomes, focused governance. I don't think I really don't think that's the case. I think we just happen to have this juxtaposition of harder financial times coinciding with we're hitting kind of our stride with the work that we're trying to do in relation to that.
Well, the good news is we don't do this work alone. And when things get um um complicated or especially at a level of the things that Colleen would talk about, you know, we as administrators aren't making this decision alone. We have um a law firm that we work with regularly and this year we've been on the phone with them just about every day about something around social media harassment bullying um which is a lot um and you know there's other experts Kate McCarthy has a title n person who is an expert in the field she reaches out to um so we certainly bring in the law we bring in the experts to help us figure this out and address it as comprehensively as we can and we can work to make our policies as as stringent as we can within the within in the rules to act as a you know another preventative measure for for people to recognize how serious that is too but I think yeah I think it's separate policies as they are we definitely seem to need to update them at almost probably monthly at this point new things are coming up but uh I think we have sort of a structure for the the plan here that uh I think we can move forward but I think it's pretty clear we want to bring that forward to look at our policies um figure out the timeline for how we want want to go about that.
And I have a very firm belief based on everything I know from from my time in K12 that the student outcomes focused governance and the potential for it to improve student outcomes ultimately will make the work of this body easier in the future. And that's because the way that the finance system is structured in Arizona is there is only one way to be in a position to be better than the inflation rate for well there's two ways but one requires less conflict in here and more conflict down at the capital, right? Um because the legislature could give us more money. They could stop giving all the money to the large corporations and the wealthiest individuals in the state, right? and invest it in public education. And if they did that, what would be amazing is we currently as the as being 49th in the country for funding, we are 38th in the country for performance.