Leonard yeah I can summarize that this afternoon those responses were provided to them and shortly after I forwarded those same responses to all of the commissioners okay so everybody should be I think I know the caucus were on that email and several other people as well okay and in terms of after this passes tonight what sort should say if this passes tonight what what would be the next steps in terms of when it would be going to council and what's that timeline look like probably the earliest it would progress to council would be first reading at the second January meeting of City Council or the first February meeting so that'd be my estimate one of those two weeks for first reading then it would require a month delay before the second reading in public here okay so I would guess final consideration and at public hearing at City Council if recommended for approval this evening would be either the second meeting in February or the first meeting in March okay in terms of the concerns that sort of were raised this evening in terms of process and I am sympathetic because I spend my my day job reviewing sign ordinances and line ordinances and things like that and I know it is very tedious and also very challenging to just have a couple of days to be able to kind of go over there and review them and understand what those substantive changes might look like I think staff did a great job in terms of identifying what those substantive changes look like and also looking at the direction that those changes are headed I think that they're more restrictive rather than more permissive which I think is beneficial to the community and I am reassured to some degree that there's going to be a good chunk of time especially over the holidays to and you know a good month to be able to review this more before first reading if anything really substantive should pop out I think that we have a pretty receptive Council to listening to concerns they get they get raised so hopefully nothing gets observed in that time period but I think there is still opportunity for you know changes if something odd gets gets noticed in that time period in terms of enforcement and how those has anything changed in terms of the ability for the city to enforce or fines in terms of the update for the sign ordinance I don't believe in any changes to the amount of the fines as far as enforcement this was already mentioned it is challenging we do have somebody on staff that does go out and respond hopefully in a timely fashion to to make corrections before we do issue a ticket but it's probably gonna be as previously stated complaint driven once we receive complaints that's what we really can start our follow up oh and what is the what was the rationale in terms of eliminating marquee signs well as was previously discussed there's not a whole lot of of barky signs out there if there were any changes that were needed you could always go back to the Zoning Board of Appeals and we still have the effect with canopy and awning signs for someone to come out and get an approval first signs of that nature okay sorry I missed that explanation earlier okay thanks commissioner embrance maybe just I wanted to begin with a couple clarification questions like I noticed in the list of prohibited signs 5.2 4.3 C includes exterior penance and I'm wondering anything includes Flags whether those are athletic or other related holiday like I'm and maybe also I'm wondering where half like things like holiday decorations fall in any of this the penance that we would typically interpret that to be our sign penance oftentimes we see them on commercial businesses they tend to be strong maybe long property lines or between buildings there would be however it is conceivable that some temporary sign Walt sign could be in the form of a pennant but our intention is sort of those that are strung not a flag that's buy a pole has a yes or a rainbow or if I made the the pennants are also defined in two definitions triangular or irregular so not rectangular yeah I think that was an intention to we we have had again have some issues like where they're just sort of strong to draw attention to a property less intended to define as a single temporary side but more of linear Flags there's an excellent question previously we had provided Flags as an exception I think now they would be incorporated oh you know my definitions are missing d e f g and h though because we made no changes to those letters those flags may be in there may be defined in there flagpoles are clearly allowed in all zoning districts my initial reaction is that because we clearly allow those as a as a structure and zoning districts on any property and I think it would be a logical interpretation that we wouldn't require you to put a flagpole up without the flag so I think that's okay yeah um I may be returning to penance for a moment though a resident could not hang like one strand of Tibetan prayer flags or something on their porch sure if it didn't meet the temporary and then my next question relates to figure 24 a calculating the sign area of freestanding signs the last example given shows an non illuminated sign and I wondered what the rationale was behind how the sign area is measured where and one could one could see a version of this where the actual sign structure is much larger than what Silla straighted here but the sign area would still be small yeah so the intention there is that if it's not illuminated essentially we'd be providing a sort of potentially more sign area for that definition however if you go to the example above and it was backlit for example in a light box we would be counting the whole in circumstances where the structure on which elsewhere in the code instructed in circumstances where that structure holding the sign is more than three times the area of the sign then we would then proceed to count the full size of that structure towards the sign definition so it's a sort of in short sort of a small incentive if you will to not illuminate your sign that allows you have a larger sign if you don't up to a certain proportion okay and then I had a question a clarification question about window signs and which were described in 5.2 4.6 I wondered about like perforated vinyl window Kling which could can in theory cover I mean you know cover an entire window I guess I just wondered whether that counts as a sign like a graphic because I also noticed in here that like window things on display wind goods goods on display don't count correct I know I'm getting nitpicky here but I think there's a lot of nuance and I guess also I think there are like real estate agents who fill the window with signage of properties that I have for sale or for rent and would that be considered goods first thing goods on display or or a window sign a sign in a window so that could be considered signage we would we would certainly look at any circumstance and make that determination as it relates to your question about window film this is something that we encountered quite a bit we for example one of the things that we debated in putting together this language was would we restrict wall signage to no more than 25% per window that is you would never be allowed to fill up more than 25% of any individual window we opted for this approach which would potentially allow you to consolidate the area if you had four windows you could cover one window with graphics this does not prohibit you from potentially blacking out windows with a vinyl film so why is it's not signage and you will see that circumstance in the city in some cases sometimes it can be challenging to if if it's if it's just like a solid color that's one thing sometimes in the past we've had to make judgments about whether that is such product is acting more as include some graphic and whether it's acting as signage or art and frankly it's so those are some of the challenging interpretations that we occasionally have to make but but to be clear this wouldn't prohibit sort of blacking out a window it would restrict more than 25% of that window area from being filled with signage okay that's it for now thank you Commissioner Hamish right following up on that just for clarification to is are we talking about just the front of buildings or is this any like I guess I'm thinking now about like purely residential but you know can you hang penance in your backyard so we this is the the window area is calculated by ground for business frontage we did discuss whether or not to specifically provide regulations around residential windows and opted not we don't have those kind of restrictions in place in that so we're not proposing to invoke any additional restrictions now again I would put that in an interpretive interpretive challenge it's conceivable that you could put up a Budweiser flag in your window at some point we would believe we would have to make a determination in that case but we are not specifically a regulating residential window signage okay chime in also we're only gonna regulate signs that are visible from the public right-of-way or from public grounds okay and then I think now I'm thinking about the Old Fourth Ward more and I'm thinking specifically about in these temporary freestanding unlimited signs so landlords or building property managers who have signs on their buildings that will be non-conforming right if it is a one or two family yeah or if it is a three or more unit and it's over six square feet okay so let's pretend these are all like single one or two family houses those can't be there anymore if they want to take them down but they could if they you know needed if it needed to come down for some reason they're not allowed to put it back up they could have a one temporary freestanding sign or is that a commercial message if it's like like a management company set I'm just trying to think like is it worse to have these like temporary freestanding signs in the yards of these houses than it is to have like the little phone number so we're not regulating the content of a free-standing sign and that's intentional to provide the flexibility yes it might be utilized by a property owner to say for lease similarly it might be used by a tenant to advocate a position or a political ideology or yeah I have a good advocate for a planet or some or some other some other message so yes they could use that for that purpose we are not specifying the content we're trying to find that balance of an adequacy of free speech and physical constraint of the property yeah no I completely get it I just don't want to see like a bunch of temporary freestanding management company signs in people's yards yeah you that is the balance that right that I hope that we've found what this ordinance is trying to find the balance of an adequacy of opportunity for people to invoke their speech and define fashion based on these geographies and it is a balance so if when ever this passes right now the current ordinance as it stands is like well clearly state that but it is not content neutral you will find lots of references to specific types of sign and specific regulations - those are is the amendment process like if we pass this as is but then stuff is found because you mentioned the old ordinance has been amended several times is that amendment process painful that's the same process as adoption and one thing that we are also making sure to include in this is while we do have a severability clause in the whole UDC which is sort of a attorney term of saying that if one provision of this is deemed to be illegal it doesn't invalidate the balance of our ordinance so we've added that provision specifically to this I know we're in 2019 but 2015 case law from the Supreme Court is actually still relatively recent and other case law could continue to develop but in short it would be the same process however I think generally it would be easier because we started from this content-neutral structure where I think the changes would probably be perhaps numeric or quantitative as opposed to sort of starting over like we are now I should I feel like an imperfect content-neutral ordinance is probably better than what we have yeah um just while we're talking about this I want to make it clear this would this would have the effect of repealing the entire science section of our current chapter UDC so I didn't show you that sort of all deleted but this would replace that provision and then we did show you the sort of track changes version of the other sections of the UDC that would be impacted Sherwood's I just wanted to follow up a little bit more on the Crockett's and some of their concerns and so I wanted to just make sure I'm understanding so currently with the ordinance that we currently have what and either mr.
Chang or mr. Leonard could could answer this please what is considered in affright infraction right now based upon the description that the Crockett's gave us in terms of saying numerous signs on on rental properties in the Old Fourth Ward it's a little difficult without knowing we'd have to look through the ordinance to find out what is the zoning what's the size of the sign where is it located so we can again we take him on a case-by-case basis and but just to be clear like one example that was brought up as if you had eight temporary signs this new code would restrict no more than four temporary site signs and in some of those circumstances so that'd be one example of how that change would occur I would also say that the sort of non-conforming likelihood of maintenance of a temporary sign versus a permanent sign is probably also different so there's probably more opportunities to get those kind of properties into compliance long-term then perhaps a property that has a permanent sign affixed to it that's not good for me okay and those eight signs can would would if this were to pass those would be content-neutral which meant that it could be eight signs for I don't know vote for things like that maybe one that says again we be sure restricting it likely to no more than four freestanding signs they would have to think they could do one of potentially they're full square footage 11th or they could divide that square footage allotment amongst four freestanding signs and you're absolutely right they could be save the whales vote for mayor woods and city planner line art is an idiot I mean I don't so so you're you're right they are content neutral we're restricting the size based on the property and they have some flexibility and how they use that size but the limits exist okay and then I was I was also I jotted some notes down in terms of of the remedy for those who might be neighbors to some of these property owners their remedy seems to be that they should get in touch with the community services they call it in well if it's the public right-of-way they would go to community standards but anything on private property they could call the planning or in this case zoning we have a gentleman that we go out and do enforcement okay and I don't I don't necessarily want to say how successful is that but I'm getting the sense that this is an ongoing issue for some folks who live in the 4th Ward because this isn't the first time that we've heard it and/or if we drive through that area you can see some of this too and not just to the 4th ward but also some other places in town so as a staff are you feeling fairly confident that this would be a good remedy for those neighborhoods that are experiencing this this kind of phenomena it will this will not solve all those issues particularly temporary signage enforcement I think will continue to be challenging one thing that I think will help address the condition in a more positive way is that we will be standardizing what the regulations are in a way right now our current ordinance has different limitations depending on the size of signage I think I don't I don't think the sort of consolidating everything into the same requirements is an automatic solution however I think we'll it added a consistency in our ability to respond frankly just more quickly than maybe spending the time to research a particular sign content ok and this may be something that we'll talk about later on depending on what happens with it here and then on to City Council but how does the public neighborhoods find out about these changes and then be able to realize that it's now standardized which as you said should really make it easier for people to know when someone's in violation yeah this is a good question I think unlike probably this more so than other UDC changes might warrant some sort of communication effort that we could look at as we progress to City Council and talk about how we might any ideas we have on to achieve that Commissioner Briggs yeah so I've been kind of pondering the unlimited temporary sign for a bit may feel a little bit guilty because I this isn't a substantive change I mean this was in there in the last draft and I it's still okay to bring it up that's so but I to me this just suggests this just contributes to sine white there are we're providing folks with for temporary signs that can be upped can be placed for sixty five continuous days yes they need to take him down for 30 days for a gap but we're providing pretty ample opportunity for free speech in a variety of different mechanisms with for temporary signs and so I'm inclined to think that there's really no reason for us to be providing one unlimited sign on on these properties we already have an exception if the if the building is up for first obviously for sale or lease and this is freestanding which also means it's it's much more visible in in our landscapes which are already quite cluttered sometimes so I don't know I would be inclined to put forward an amendment to strike B from section two in the temporary free-standing signs but I'd like to see if there's any agreement around the table before put that forward as others have been pondering this so if we can get back to that in a minute I have a couple of things that I'd like to bring up um mr.
frost thank you for being here I have a question that you know we've been slowly moving through the through this change in our sign ordinance does our current sign ordinance open us up to litigation the way it's set forth right now I was thinking mr. frost would answer that since he's here and we'd like to put him on on stage he might ask me to answer that yeah that's not I'm not gonna comment on what risks the city might have all right well thank you at least we got you to speak once so I appreciate that mr. Leonard um I would just say that I believe this draft does put us in a more defensible position I'm just again based on the premise that that Supreme Court case emphasized the importance of content neutrality that is your sign regulation shouldn't require you to look at what the sign says in order to make decisions about it I think this ordinance achieves that I think there are current provisions of our current code that do require you to assess the content of it that it would it would give me pause but I'm not an attorney thank you with regards to the elimination of the three square foot wall science I'm one and two family residential districts I'm a little I understand why you'd want to remove it but I guess there's a concern that I have with regards to properties that are rented in the in the one and two family residential districts with regards to you know it takes sometimes when you have an issue with the property and it has and you have a landlords contact information or a property managers contact information to reach out to could be helpful versus then just calling the city and having the city do the enforcement I know property managers who are very responsive once they learn about issues and I'm sure many of them would like to learn from the neighbors versus from the city when they're being fined or when other issues come up so I'm not exactly on board for removing those signs and that's the one sign that I that I'm thinking of right now the of having a property managers contact information on a building so that the neighbors have some contact information was there a reason for the removal the we we had a similar discussion keep in mind that if it's provided there's no restriction on content so it could be on a property owner content it could be some other message we we did this we discussed it I don't want to speak for everybody but my my rationale for it is that the character of those uses might be more prevalent and our are one in our two districts they tend to be more residential in nature the while not well not while some of them very well very much may be rental properties a number of rental properties and the higher density areas are probably more prevalent and so it was a balance of just what is the appropriate way to address character with permanent signs but I think I would just to link those two comments I think that in balancing the opportunity for free speech that unlimited temporary sign probably should be considered carefully if removed as early particularly to single at one and to family signs that don't have as many other opportunities for speech is there any way to I guess it's one of those things where I I think for a lot of neighbors and for me personally when I see when I see a friend sign attached to a building and I see that their lawn isn't cut I make the phone call to the landlord or to my friend who has that property listed or is managing it awesome this adds a there's uncertainty just because if you can go if you go into the city records you're not gonna find out who the owner is if the property is managed by management company so I guess I'm just looking at from just that angle of just knowing who the landlord is of the property so I but I understand the other what other message could go up there maybe I'm not thinking about that and maybe that's maybe we don't want that message up so depending on how we vote on this this evening if we table it we might want to revisit that potentially with regards to permit so I did see that residential properties do not need a permit for temporary signs but I did not see for commercial properties that are for lease so the exceptions no permit is required it's as temporary signs and residential zoning districts and then the temporary freestanding signs permitted under Section five all that in all zoning districts does I just want to clarify does that mean there are no permits required for temporary signs in both residential and commercial districts is that correct I believe so the temp temporary all temporary signs and residential zoning districts do not require permit and the unlimited sign in all districts don't require permit other temporary signs in non-residential districts would require permit so a commercial broker marking a property for sale would be required to get a permit for a temporary sign yes I think that's probably gonna be an issue that we need to look at just because there's a lot of commercial real estate in town and lots of signs and currently permits are not required again though we can't distinguish a for lease sign from other type of signage so we could we could say that a potential amendment would be temporary signage and non-residential properties do not require a permit mm-hmm so that could be considered and I think that's the direction that I'd like to go on and we can discuss that further then in regards to I'm sorry you know in my my field of real estate open house signs are those considered temporary signs probably okay so whether they're put up for two hours or until well technically open house signs don't go in front of a property that is for sale other than one but directional signs to the open house that would be a temporary sign that could potentially be within the required allotment of residential property or running afoul of that and could not be placed in the public right away so a property that is so I'm at the corner of green and Plymouth and I'm outside the right-of-way putting a directional sign on a property that I don't own it's that an allowed use is that an allowed temporary sign it would be a free-standing sign so long as they were not didn't already have the maximum number or square feet and it would not require a permit because it's unlikely in that a residential area if it were in a commercial area and that was the currently you would work we would require a permit for a temporary sign okay so corner of Plymouth and green is a commercially commercial property so in order for me to put a directional open house sign for two hours would require me to get a permit from the city yes technically we we can't regulate a sign for a specific duration differently I doubt I I bet that happens and how and the current code how does that so I I did see there's a permission for open house signs and concurrent code that is unfortunately content-specific and the US Supreme Court has said shame on such language okay so that's another one and then window signs if we can go back to residential window signs so in condominium complexes some condominium complexes allow for property owners to put a for sale sign into into a window that's a temporary sign would that be considered a temporary sign is it affixed to the window well it might be taped to the window generally we don't regulate residential windows through our sign ordinance now or as proposed we do provide an additional freestanding sign and that would be multiple family which you'd be allowed a temporary wall sign up to 12 square feet I I think the ordinance is silent on it so I think technically it would probably be illegal and that's a problem well then that so you and so your goal would be to provide a specific allocation of residential window signage temporary signage I have to look at creating so right now we have two types of temporary signs freestanding and wall we could look at I think we could look at how he would accommodate some use in that regard I don't know exactly how that is come and then I promised this in my last one I'm sorry Alys so we've seen a little bit of actually not not an Ann Arbor quite yet but I recently visited a business that's off of an alley here in town that does have signage on there and you know we're starting to see in a lot of cities major cities that have had really expensive real estate where alleys are being revitalized Detroit is one of the places that we're seeing that and I noticed that there's no more you know alleys are now looked upon as the building as a whole for signage was there a reason for getting away from allowing alley signage and making us part of separating it out or no longer separating it out yes we we determined that alley signs would be either wall signs projecting signs or could be potentially a canopy sign it didn't need to be defined specifically they're still permitted within those categories you would have to choose to allocate your square footage to that face your square footage is still based on the building frontage but we determined that it wasn't necessary to define it unto itself because an alley fan could probably more appropriately meet one of the forms of the types of signs we've defined thank you um and just as a final thought you know with with an item just brought up like mr.
Briggs and some of the things that I've brought up I think it might be worthwhile for us to table this for a little while just to look at some of the issues that have been brought up and get additional community feedback on this before moving forward but I will of course send this off to the Commission to discuss commercial breaks yes I'm not sure if I was just not following their question properly or the answers properly but I'm trying to make sure I'm understanding the temporary freestanding signs and your distinction between residential and commercial use because what I'm seeing is that there is an exception if the building it or a lot is for sale or lease and that there are temporary signs that are permitted both in residential multi-family and non-residential so I'm not understanding where a permit is required for a non residential temporary real estate sign I don't understand how that's where am I missed where is that because the we require permits for all signs except for those listed in section 5.2 nine point two that reference there specifically addresses temporary signs and residential zoning districts and the freestanding sign that is the unlimited sign under the temporary freestanding sign that could be amended to reference that section more generally to provide the exception from either the additional signage you get from building or a lot for sale or unlimited sign again keep in mind though that that sub a is not a for lease sign you get additional temporary freestanding sign for your property when it is for sale or for at least for that duration it does not require you to use it for that purpose we are content neutral on what you put on that sign that's additional to the what's listed in this table correct and and so the okay I guess I'm I don't know if I'm being obtuse on this or I just feel like I'd be I just don't understand why the the non-residential isn't included where what what exactly would need to be changed to in this section so to to it to adjust for so that no temporary freestanding things would require permit right so the adjustment would be in 5.2 9.2 and it would my initial thought it would read something that no permit is required for sub 3 temporary signs permitted under the temporary science section under that circumstance it would exempt temporary wall signs freestanding signs the accepted exception signs from the Spay the area and duration regularly limitations they would restrict any sign under that freestanding category from requiring a permit come ashore break I'm sorry Commissioner Mills so based on what you just said now I understand the permit site but I'm the exceptions for the temporary freestanding signs I read that as exceptions from the time how long from the duration not be amount of signage that you're allowed because I want to make sure that there is a limitation on the amount of for sale for lease signage that's allowed and I understand why we would want to exempt how long if it takes more than 65 days to sell a property I think that makes sense but I just want to make sure though there are limitations on the amount of signage I think I think you're correct I misspoke I think that the exception in a provides you an exception from the duration of 65 days with a 30 day gap so as long as that building or a lot is for sale it doesn't give you increased area I my apologies okay good I know I think that it's really helpful just to make sure and since we're on this section and I have the things that's okay I agree with I would I agree with what Commissioner breaks said about considering this like permanent temporary signage like unlimited time for a temporary sign the other question that I have that actually maybe you can help us answer I forgot your name sorry I is that it stimulates that it has to be a non-commercial message is which is interesting to me given that we're moving away like moving towards content neutrality so how does that work it did that slip through the cracks or was that intentional yeah without getting into this specific provision the courts have left open possibility to regulate commercial signage differently historically commercial signage has been held to a lesser standard standard than non-commercial speech okay so if it is a the way that I'm reading these now with these two exceptions next to each other if a building owner is offering a building for lease the first exception there it falls within there that they can if it takes them three months to lease out or or sell that building they can have that temporary sign up for three months and actually that doesn't say whether it needs to be freestanding or it can be on a wall is that correct sorry it doesn't it yeah oh yeah that's yeah whatever temporary signage is allowed in that district then you can have it for sale around a wall but in the case of what Commissioner mill she was saying about wanting to have the phone number for whoever's managing the property who also sends the message like who you call if you want to lease the property right it's a year-round advertisement that's is that gray area become what is commercial I mean in my mind it's sort of commercial right but it could also serve a public safety or like a community standard so like we were I was I was reading this as the opportunity that unlimited sign the unlimited temporary sign as the opportunity for the management company to put their three square foot sign up but if it serves the purpose of like advertising how you can lease that property that's commercial to me isn't it the determination of whether it's commercial and that would have to be made on a case-by-case basis maybe code enforcement staff and I think because of that like not knowing how that's gonna I mean and my staff knows how that's gonna pan out because I think we can look at some existing some existing such signs right I I think that this idea of being able to have signs that rotate even if it's the same effective message but that that temporary sign can only be there for two months at a time to keep it in good repair in my mind seems to make a whole lot more sense than to allow a free-standing sign which we know has the opportunity to get ratty right to be there for at an unlimited basis so and it resolves this whole like what is commercial and what is non-commercial business in my mind that's my two cents worth on that but I think that there's enough questions in here I think what Commissioner Milstein said about when we require permits requiring permits for real estate signs or any temporary sign and that for that matter I think doesn't I'm glad that you found that like that seems super onerous in my mind I'm sure so they just on the permanent temporary sign we do have a clause though that does say that it has to mean to be placed and in good repair as long as it's on display so that would come down to enforcement which actually gets back to the question of fines and enforcement like fines are not in this how are those updated or you know modified and like what it like if if enforcement isn't active enough to deter this the people are gonna just put the signs back up again what is the process of increasing fines or other forms of enforcement I believe the fines are in here yeah $500 section five $500 plus and each day that a violation continues shall be deemed a separate violation so 500 hours a day how often do we find we have had I don't know specifically I can tell you our first approach is to try to get the property under compliance our typical process is when a violation is found we will ideally reach out and seek voluntary compliance that's sort of the most efficient use of everybody's resources to accomplish the goal of the ordinance and the event that that doesn't do we typically provide a Notice of Violation which is a letter that we are going to communicate to the property owner that you are in violation of this specific provision will provide some time period for correction that often then achieves a lot more compliance beyond the voluntary and then I don't have the exact numbers but then the next step would be to issue a ticket sometimes that ticket issuance can result in compliance at that point sometimes we end up in court and once we're in court we're presenting our case that we believe it's a violation they have the opportunity to dispute that and at that point it's kind of in the courts hands as to whether or not that's going to be upheld or not in the event that it is that gives us a lot more latitude than to ensure compliance is reached or more confidence to start issuing more frequent tickets after that we're not typically in the process of issuing tickets after that Notice of Violation on a daily basis we consider all of those to be deliberate reasonable steps to try to bring the property any compliance is the finding retroactive to the date of a notice or is it no ticket would have to be issued on a daily basis in order to invoke that in Commissioner survey it reads not more than $500 not less than $100 but that's a daily limit so it can be 500 hours a day it doesn't go $100 a day up to five days then they're capped out sort of thing it's it's it's interesting you know to hear it's things like even for for the first sale and lease if something's going up for lease fall twenty twenty right now that's allowed to be up for a year right which goes to you know public comments about it that but regulating that content versus something else we're trying to be flexible enough when we're talking about real estate a little bit differently within these residential temporary signs it's a faux goes and play scenarios but I also believe that we're probably planning for a lot of the worst-case scenarios that there is enforcement in place and in a way and that I don't I don't know how many violations are gonna come from open house or garage sale signs and if they do start to come then just a clarification on the cruelly signs for fall of 2020 this is the season when you see a lot of those signs rental season begins November 1st and runs through pretty much until August 2020 so it's not uncommon to see signs although there are a lot of them out there right now for their discussion commissioner hamstring temporary freestanding signs but I just want to make sure okay so in this exception when the building is for sale this is the maximum display period for temporary signs on that building a lot should be that so the temporary signs so you said you can have up to four temporary signs right and residential temporary signs and non-residential well which are you asking about that well the exceptions for temporary freestanding signs I guess I'm not sure if this reads as if you have a whole for lease in fall of 2020 can you have your three other temporary signs it says look the fact that it says like temporary signs makes me concern that since we're not regulating content if you have a home for lease in a year from now could you have three other signs that just say whatever and those are not regulated and they can just be up until it's leased right but we can't regulate content so I don't know how to yes yes we are providing an exception of timing for the temporary signs during that period that it's for sale early temporary signs could say anything correct okay and the places are for lease pretty much always due to the city ordinance that requires the landlord's not to start signing leases until 60 days after the beginning of the lease I mean I don't know that anybody's gonna read the sign ordinance that closely that's all of these landlords all of a sudden they're gonna be like cool I can just have like four temporary signs in my yard at all time because my house is always but it gets back to the light clutter and blight issue that I'm sure residents in neighborhoods with a lot of rental properties are very concerned about as I would be the message could you know there are signs out there right now that say free Heat free Wi-Fi so there are it doesn't necessarily say for lease right it just has other messages on them and you can have up to four if the property is technically for lease it is I'd run a I just want to know we could look at if if there was concern about that is extending the prohibition on permanent signs further up on the number of units that would decrease you would still likely have the same temporary signs provisions but you would have less total signage on the property through a combination of permanent and temporary signage well could you also to say that you're limited to one sign it's longer than sixty-five days but any other temporary signs are still subject to you're not regulating the content of that sign but you're just allowing them one it's sort of until and we just have to presume which one their designated their choice win no permits required right it might be challenging so I think we have enough feedback at this point or I think mr.
Leonard you have enough feedback at this point well I I guess I'd appreciate a little bit more direction so some of the questions that came up that I don't have a clear consensus if you'd like to see changed or what we can provide I'm one I want to be I'm hearing some consensus on eliminating the requirements for permits for any temporary signs I think we can explore that I'm hearing I heard one possibly two voices for regulating residential window signage right now we're sort of quiet on it and being quiet on it so you would like to allow residential window signage throughout the city I would like that to count towards the signs that you're allowed so whether it's in my mind whether it's with lower wall it's a building sign that it'd be a temporary sign because then for exam on single and to family we don't provide any permanent signage currently oh that's another question in my mind putting it in a window has the same effect as putting it on a wall in my mind the permanency of it I think is a separate matter permanent window sign permanent wall sign or temporary you know I don't want to add additional signage but I think like the flexibility of putting it in a window we're voting it in a window rather than putting it on the wall is helpful so in a mixed-use building well let me think a mixed-use building where you have retail and residential above we only provide signage calculation to the ground floor so in that circumstance any window signage would have to be limited to a temporary status or we would have to provide more signage allowed on that building could it could the signage on the second floor be counted towards the maximum that's allowed that potentially unless the first floor is already used up all the signage allocation then there's none available so that's what I'm just trying to I I would be fine with that at that point if they've used up all the maximum if the business runners just used up the maximum for the building none is available for upper storeys or the landlord or the building owner would then have to renegotiate shrinking the sign down on the first floor and or how how does the house as written is that situation handled can people upstairs people window signs in because if you just said that silence means not allowed not allowed then it sounds to me like this the status quo leaving this as is it couldn't do that those people upstairs could not put anything in their windows that's correct so in my mind having collectively right not exceed the the threshold that we put is a better situation than what we're currently in okay there give some upstairs some flexibility then yeah I think we're driving to be the intention and feedback I'm hearing is you want to provide the opportunity for residential window signage not adding design plate replacing instead of wall and that will maybe Commissioner Sylve disagrees I mean it's a part of my ticket it feels temporary like when we talked about what might be in an apartment window would be the same thing as single-family residential might put in their yard that it could I know we were not talking about content but it could be a political sign or for sale sign or for lease so I would feel that in the window because it's obstructing feels like a temporary condition where on a wall affixed to kind of the wall outside of any residential use feels more permanent because it's not obstructing another feature in a way and so if we're leaning towards allowing it it feels like it actually falls more into the temporary than the permanent category I don't know how that changes the area calculations and how that's bedded out but that would be my leaning to so that if I'm like in a single-family use when you've got four signs if you put three in your yard and one in your window they all just add up to the same thing we're not adding more into it it all feels temporary in my perspective and then we're equally trying to approach all types of housing residential uses in the same way and not that dense dense housing has a permanent sort of requirement where single-family and detached housing has a temporary old stability it's like I have to respond to the zoning districts where it's located yeah I think that's kind of my concern when we do talk about that use versus zoning but we have to start somewhere right but the equity between that who lives where the typology of it I am hearing consider removal of the exception for a single freestanding sign subject to the time imitations I just want to say that I it is conceivable that when that comes back I my initial thought is that that is that's a bit of a accommodation from a absolute free speech opportunity for any property owner but we'll look at it and then the provision of a permanent sign for single and two family residential I heard a couple comments about that I don't know if there's a unified vision wonder what you would like to see in regards to that I didn't hear I think this is from Commissioner hammerschmidt and I didn't hear a single sign like taking it from four to one I heard the exception of allowing only one of those signs to be up during the period of lease not all four not all temporary signs I think that we should talk about oh you're talking about the sign on the like a management company I'm sorry what a permanent wall sign of up to three square feet on a one or two family residential got it I'm sorry we did talk about that as well though yeah is there any consensus on that could could we add and this is controlling what's on that sign could we know could what if it's contact information only phone number only my initial reaction is that is restricting by contest what if you lowered from three square feet to one that could be accommodated or two swervy I think that would be a but to react well I would be in favor of eliminating or of not eliminating signs whether it's three square feet one square foot or two square feet doesn't really matter me you know landlords will figure out a way to make it so they stand out I'm assuming so it's not gonna be a white house with a white sign for example how about a foot and a half mr.
Mill's I would prefer that that if we keep in the idea of this unlimited time single sign that it I would prefer it in a window rather than freestanding personally I thought about a wall wall sign yes but I want but I'm like yeah putting back in the housing a one small permanent wall sign on one or two family residence okay I was it this the circumstance thinking about the circumstance that we set up to the content that might be provided because we can't regulate content so it's how do we create a circumstance that enables the content that we think is appropriate and so a permanent wall sign of a certain scale of a house that's leased or rented the lessee isn't going to fix a permanent sign to not their property so allowing that permanent sign is probably going to be done by the management or the owner and so the content is going to be something curated by the management or the owner so I feel like that leads you know towards the management number and contact information without actually trying to control what it is right if we do it with the temporary freestanding forever duration sign that is a bit more muddy in terms of like a tenant could just put a sign out and let it sit out from November to August so and I think what it would do if we did what we've routed back to the wall sign is it provides that permanent free speech opportunity so if a tenant wanted to stick something on top of that contact information they could so that there is that permanent free speech ability on the wall instead of in the yard blight sort of scenario so I think those two go hand-in-hand that we trade off and find that balance and figure out how that scenario helps lead towards the content that we're looking for without curating the content so basically I think I'm going towards the wall sign because it allows us to redact the temporary permanent freestanding sign possibly an enable permanent free speech but in a circumstance where people are releasing it it's probably going to be the management or the owner that is going to put the content on that or can you if we kept the temporary unlimited whatever can you limit the permanent wall signs to just properties for rent because that's not regulating content there's that not I - reaction is I don't like the distinction of changing regulations based on the occupancy tenure a single-family owner should and a single family rental property should be considered I think the same in regulations it is considered differently through other building code requirements but I'm - reaction is that's bite difficult from a zoning perspective Commissioner Briggs since this is getting tabled it appears this is one area that I would love to hear some feedback from neighborhood associations in terms of what they would like to see I would I would defer a lot on the wall sign piece on that in terms of whether or not they would feel but that having that contact information would be would continues to be useful but I do like the idea if that it's going to be maintained that it's a smaller size personally I like the removal of the wall signs but I I could be persuaded if it felt like a something that's actually benefiting neighborhoods and folks that are living there regularly that are addressing these issues with regards to the unlimited sign just throw one other piece I know your concern is around free speech to me it seems that we are favoring free speech for those folks who have a yard and have the ability to put up a free and on a free-standing sign so I think we are providing greater speech for certain types of individuals in our community and so I'd be curious to see as you guys are discussing this after this meeting how that plays out but I I'm not persuaded necessarily that we're we're offering more but so that point would be that if provided it should be one temporary sign not one temporary freestanding sign personally I don't think we need unlimited sizeable and then open house signs garage sale signs yeah a garage sale sign or an estate sale or something along those lines we could you know I have some you know text about that for us to read that great so you would be interested in some exception that says you can do any temporary sign and for at any location so long as it's not present for more than four hours or eight I'm a I'm a soft nail on that boat we can look at it that's all I ask okay so my to do is look at temporary eliminating the requirement for permits for all temporary sign permits look at the potential regulation or provision of residential window signs perhaps as a temporary option evaluate the unlimited temporary freestanding sign could it be eliminated if if kept could it be generalized to provide more choice as to how its realized as the temporary signs that are just freestanding is there any specific provision for temporary time limited signs and adding back in potentially adding back in single and two family three square foot sign and specifically trying to solicit feedback from the community about that particular issue seem like it's my thing about if your property is for lease can you really yeah Commissioner woods yeah I'm that so that last part you said that's about those small signs that go on houses information it it seems like with technology and just anecdotally from a lot of my students it seems like people do a lot more online and going to don't even know the names of the apps but to find out where property and things like that or available as opposed to looking at those signs so hopefully eventually we're sort of getting away from those even though I know no we're not well we should because I think it's just adding to what some people are feeling is not the best look so I just wanted to put that in there okay all right I would be interested in knowing what percent of your sales are actually from the online kinds of you know Realty doc Gramm's as opposed to people just driving down the street and seeing it on a house here's the on I will mention this the reason why I like for sale signs is when I'm driving through a neighborhood and I'm going to show a house I don't have to look at the street numbers I just see the for sale sign I know I need to pull in that driveway and in some neighborhoods that I have a lot of cookie cutter homes it's very helpful to have that sign there but that's that's my as a real estate agent that's why I like for sale signs and so you never it says you're here and you're looking around you're like no I'm not anywhere near here all right mr.
Leonard do we have enough to take a motion or do you have enough feedback so that we could table this yes my tabling would allow us to bring it back when we feel like we've addressed all the questions given the opportunity for some additional feedback my initial thought is that I might shoot for the first the second January or the first February meeting all right do I have a motion to table move by Commissioner Mills seconded by Commissioner woods any discussion on tabling all those in favor please say aye opposed all right we are tabled next item on our agenda is to two 6-0 Traber Road annexation and Zoning for City Council approval mr. Leonard mr.
Cheney well deliver staff report okay the petitioner is located on the east side of Traver Road south of Traver Boulevard there in an ever Township the requesting to annex 3.5 acres and rezoning to r1b which a single-family residential owners requesting sanitary sewers sewer service from the city since their septic system is failing staff recommends approval I'm here for Heaney all right at this time I'd like to open up the public hearing if there's anybody in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission in regards to this item please step up to the podium state your name and address for the record and you'll have up to three minutes to address the Planning Commission and regrets this item seeing nobody I will close the public hearing and I will read the motion the in order the Ann Arbor City Planning Commission hereby recommends that the mayor and city council approved a hoss for annexation and r1b single-family dwelling district zoning two two six zero Traver Road move by Commissioner sauvé seconded by Commissioner Mills do we have discussion none all those in favor please say aye opposed it is approved welcome to the city of Ann Arbor all right moving on to audience participation at this time any members of the audience may address the Planning Commission if there are members of the audience you have up to three minutes to address the plan commission please state your name and address for the record I appreciate and this is why they pay you the big bucks to look at all this is this is really complicated stuff you know so I am very grateful I just when if you want citizen input you know give us a call we'd be happy to come in and talk I appreciate Erica making that comment I would just like to say that I think we can do better in enforcement than the current plan in place I mean there are things I was just thinking the other day why is the burden on the neighborhoods why couldn't for example a person who puts up a sign simply take a picture of the sign because if you take a picture on the side of your cell phone you got to be so you have some kind of evidence of what you've done so it would be the obligation of the person who sets up the temporary sign to take a picture of it to date it and if you're a commercial enterprise it would seem to me that you perform so that you have some proof so in other words if you don't have that proof and it's it's driven by complaint but guess who does it complain people who are Sarah walk around sort of like us so we make a complaint there's an investigation but there's no proof of when the sign comes up so the proof is the complaint so it could be 30 days 45 days when we'll walk around and notice this house we make a call and the 60 day limit starts from the day the other thing that could be done it would be simple I mean you can create online survey where someone who sets up a sign can goes and just simply enters one they put up the sign on the location doesn't take doesn't cost anything but it be some way to record it so I guess what I'm asking is in terms of reinforcement that you least have the conversation to think is there way you know that we can sort of do it better so I would encourage that and the last thing I wanted to say is I'm hoping that part of the consideration is time timing so that neighborhoods and neighborhood groups have an opportunity to review an ordinance goes way it's set up right now I mean we find out about it on a Friday we don't have the staff here is over the weekend so we send in feedback on Monday there's just no time something's not right with that I know at City Council I think they're moving toward you know at least a week between the time that a staff report comes in and when there's feedback that to me is a little more reasonable so I would urge you you know basically to think about creatively about enforcement and then in terms of the I mean thank you very much thank you is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission seeing no one any Commission proposed business commissioner Mills I am sad that mr. Garber left because I think what he had to say fits nicely to what we were talking about before were planned projects I hope that mr.
Leonard um you could add to the list of potential things to add to the plan projects electrification like not including natural gas hookups that's something that we can definitely treat as a public benefit I think now regardless of how they sort out whether how how banning a natural gas connection fits with the either the building code or the energy code and if mr. Garber is listening that's something that I think other cities are interested in too so I've got a group digging into that as well I think so both that and kind of beefing up what we require or what we're requiring in terms of renewable energy through that land project process I think it are two of the key things that I would like to see that mesh with other goals that we have identified them I think that it might be wise to look at that soon so I'm not sure when we can schedule that but now that it's come up in a couple different occasions and we've said it for a couple of years to further Commission proposed business so as we're winding down a year I hope everyone has a happy holiday whether you're here on the Commission or the audience or anybody watching at home have a great holiday and a happy new year and I will take a motion to adjourn move back mr.
morning they have today is December 20th mm 80 first day of school today for lunch there will be Christmas nuggets roasted potatoes wedge carrot sticks jellow ice cream can melt my breakfast your family has for you we have some fun celebrating birthdays over the winter break Carly are done arabela injury Carson Larry [Music] now let's see I work Shahana show Vina Vina Samiha mcbean andrew has carnival Ashtyn let's go to the office to pick out your birthday Solstice yes is noon i REO an REO Davichi come to the office to pick out your prize today it's what my question is in New York City's Times Square there it is a New York celebration what object will they to mark the end of the please stand for the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all alexion oh I'm glad to be a huge star responsibilities during Birkin I will be respectful and all I do and be a star and me estar the whole day through have a festive Friday remember one kind word can change someone's day thanks for watching happy holidays
yeah sorry I just okay we're gonna call the regular meeting of the Brookfield Board of Education to order please stand for the pledge pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay we do have all of our board members here tonight I think Jen just stepped away for a second first up is public comment has anyone signed up no one has signed up is anyone from the public here that would like to make a comment okay seeing none we'll move on to our student representative report hello everyone so as of the past two weeks the biggest event that's happened was actually today just a couple hours ago we had our center school winter workshop so that was from like 3:00 to 5:00 and it was just a lot of fun it was very chaotic with 62 kids and 20 volunteers but it was a lot of fun we raised a lot of money for the Flint River watershed coalition the kids made crafts there was a gift shop which they could buy gifts with their parents their siblings and family members and they could wrap them at like a different station so that was like very interesting they had a story time at the end they got to hold bells and shake them to certain words and in the book and overall it was just a really great time it was really rewarding for all of us we've been planning it for several weeks almost probably two months now and so to finally see it play out was really nice and it's great that we just raised a lot of money for it for the seniors early decision results came out this past weekend so it was just very like stressful rewarding emotional time for everyone so that's just something that's been going on with the seniors there's like rolling decisions that are coming in for early action students and of course our final are due January 1st through January 15 so we're just trying to get those in before a break or after break we also had a Leo Club fundraiser so that was at the New Milford bowling lanes and that raised money for the harvest pack which is like a humanitarian organization that helps third world countries package and send food to them so it's just I think it's just very interesting to see like how there's organizations that like students don't even completely know about like this was new to me I didn't know that the harvest pack like was an organization or at least I didn't know that name specifically so to hear about it was just interesting just as some people didn't know that the Flint River watershed coalition existed but you know NHS was able to raise money for them so I think it's just nice that we are like reaching different areas of the world through all these like clubs in our school along with that Brookfield recently was one of the school's I got the CI a see Michaels cup for sportsmanship so there was a convention in late November we had a couple representative from our school go and they like were they participated in a video in which they talked about what sportsmanship meant to them and we also received we were like one of the 20 schools that received that award so that's just really special to hear especially that's like an athlete myself so in terms of the happenings in the past couple weeks that's that's been it great thank you so much you can make that announcement I see tell us I was accepted into Johns Hopkins University congratulations congratulations any questions for Monty okay we'll move on to your written correspondence Ron Jaffe will shared an article regarding media literacy and education Georgia stabile regarding today's decision for a two-hour delay and Ted yang and Vera Schwartz regarding a community news outlet okay thank you next up is approval of Board minutes recommended motion that the board approved the minutes listed below is recommended from the regular meeting on December 4th 2019 a second okay any discussion on that okay all in favor okay next we have our superintendent's update Thank You mr.
Nunez so I will be brief I had a very lengthy superintendent report at the last meeting I really wanted to update everyone on the 2019 2020 calendar that's this year's calendar so far this year we have had two snow days on December 2nd and December 17th just the other day and we have had three days where we've had delays on December 3rd we had a three-hour delay and on December 11th a three-hour delay and then this morning December 18th a two-hour delay I always like to update the board on those at this time our last day of school was June 15th now it's moved to June 17th so everybody knows that and then just a point of clarification I was actually at the middle school today talking with some of the students and they wanted to know we had an early dismissal this Friday prior to the winter break so I mean you know they've got to ask me about the important things so I explained to them that they're very lucky that their Board of Education voted to not have them come to school on December 23rd which is normally the early dismissal and this way they have to do a full day on the 20th which they're like that makes sense okay so they like the longer vacation so that's but I wanted everybody in the public to know that as well as a reminder it's a full day on the 20th that's important for people to know and the 23rd is off for the students and the teachers and that is all I have any questions all right thank you all right moving on we have these subcommittee reports healthy school start times is the only one on here today okay so we had our committee meeting last Tuesday and since Rosa is now our the chair of the port or the chair of the Board of Ed I'm going to take over as the chair of the healthy starts time committee to take on that responsibility and the committee talked about a couple of different things one is to begin our discussion about including the local private schools in what we've learned in terms of the research and some of our thinking about start times because it will impact them because we supply busing to Brookfield residents who go to those private schools so John and I are going to meet to discuss of communication plan with them as well as to form an overall communication plan with the public about our findings so far we started to review some of our survey results and we were able to see some big-picture trends but what we really need to do is we have to break the survey down into different components for example we had a parent survey but that those parents could have been from Center School from huckleberry from the middle school from the high school and in order to really analyze the data we have to break that down into its pieces same thing with the students middle school versus high school we have to break the data down into parts so we can make sure we're analyzing it correctly so that's our plan for our next meeting to do that data analysis and then our our plan going forward is to develop a communication plan which would include a presentation to the Board of Ed so you'd be updated on all the findings analysis of the data and bring the new folks on the Board of Ed into the discussion too so you can see where we've been going with that we'd also like to have possibly focus groups to follow up on the survey data so we can get more anecdotal information and ask some more probing questions based on what we learned from the surveys as well as some additional public forums and I Oh John John updated us that there's a possibility of some state legislation that might align with healthy start times if you're familiar the state of California decided that statewide schools wouldn't start till 8:30 and there's some discussion among other states including Connecticut and then John also updated us that his superintendent group is really discussing this as well so this is becoming a trend in the state and the region and even nationally so we're right on it and that's it thank you and also thanks to the 750 families that responded to the surveys that was our highest response rate even actually more than the new school project so yeah we really think that it's some representative data so it's good okay moving on to the consent agenda recommended motion that the board approve the items listed below and the consent agenda as recommended and that is the October financials second okay any discussion all in favor all right we'll move on to new business the report on the teachers contract okay so I'll represent the personnel and negotiations committee which was made up at the time we did this negotiation of Collette and Eve and myself after and so I get to give this report we entered into a contract negotiations with our teachers in the summer there's a whole - Creed schedule that we go on that runs through the summer and into September for for that sort of negotiation teachers negotiations for the board members and especially for the new board members are first of all they're the most significant item in our budget but secondly the state has so many of them that they have to run through and they force them onto a timetable right so that there's a very limited window upon which to do this we had I want to say four different negotiations meetings we went to arbitration I'm sorry we went to mediation and then we went to arbitration on one item which I'll talk about and we actually settled in the middle of the of the arbitration we actually didn't have we have what they call it directed arbitration Awards so because we actually found a reasonable agreement in so were there for items that are new to the teacher contract this year first of all and the most significant item was a revised salary schedule and you all ought to know that because of the last contract we ended up with a bunch of half-step moves and and we had a huge scattered diagram which effectively left us with almost 28 steps in our salary schedule which is not workable in the long run so the issue we were dealing with is how in this contract to go from twenty eight step structure to what is effectively a fourteen step I think is where we end up at the end of the agreement over a reasonable way without costing the town too much or shortening the teachers you know from a reasonable pay increase and it's hard as you can imagine something that's a big many steps salary structure to a few steps honor structure it has the risk of creating disconnects the result though so we had back and forth on different different salary structures year 1 year 2 year 3 the interesting thing is we agreed that we had to go get this fixed over the over the period of the contract and we agreed on the Hat the total give on terms of salary increase over the contract the only thing that was going to our to arbitration was the specifics of the step plan year by year by year we actually agreed on one and it gets us there which is great and the the net is that I'm just going to read these two point nine three percent increase in 2021 a three point oh five percent increase in twenty one twenty two and a two point nine eight percent increase in twenty two twenty three so both all right around that three percent and that is right in line with what's being given unsafe so so that's it was a successful negotiation and that it contained our cost to what our objectives were as going into the negotiations the teachers were treated fairly and we ended up with a better salary schedule at the end of the three years it's gonna be an interesting three years because you have to is every time you change the schedule you actually have to have a teacher on the step goes into this new new step structure in the following year and so there's an MoU that we also negotiated with the with the Union on how that process would happen so so it's a it was an interesting interesting negotiation not debating on the overall gif it was just debating on the structure more than anything in addition there were three other changes we had what we call the degree definition there are three categories speech and language pathologist school counselors and school psychologists whose master degrees requires 60 or more credits so these are high investment master's degree we're gonna place them on the sixth year step right which and we have and and so that's in line with what hat goes on in neighboring districts so that was a easy decision to make after that those groups of people most teachers have to earn their way into the six the sixth year my additional credits because these are so heavy they in terms of just to get the degree they get automatically into that so that's that's the uniqueness there we also did a change on emergency days emergency days were written that if you had an emergency and you had to document and define you know exactly what the emergency was you could have a the teachers could have a day off we've altered that to be two personal days in one emergency day still three right but it gives the teachers a little bit more flexibility on the reasons they might take that day off because what's an emergency - one person may not be an emergency - the person who sits next to them so that gave a little more flexibility for our teachers and then we've increased their the teacher contribution to the benefits from 21 and a half to 22 percent which is right in the sweet spot of where we think it should be and it's 22 percent over the life of the contract so so those are the those are the changes the the the the net give is right in line with what our strategic direction was to the committee and and the teachers would satisfy that teachers biggest goals were to get to the more appropriate schedule and also not lose the top of the the people that there was an interesting issue in the penultimate step they call it the second bottom step with all the negotiations that had gone on over the prior years that was a very big step increase and they wanted that group to be able of her in there that touch to the top step in the period of the contract which we also accomplished and there was a large group and it was a large group so so we worked our way through that so so that's the report I think that's been signed by yes that's been signed to yes and the board doesn't actually need to approve that because that was an arbitrated great because it was arbitrary that's so so I think that's done and and we're now good for another three years and we have what's what are the negotiations coming up coming up it seems like we're always negotiating Paris custodians and nurses I believe this where were you where we're going they're not administrators no not yet not yet okay so so and it's afford we we do assign three different people for every negotiation the personnel and negotiations committee actually is by the bylaws of of the board has to do the teacher one because it's the largest but German is madam chairman well you madam chair me madam chair madam chairman you get to decide who the committees are for for each of those negotiations and I would just urge everybody there very interesting do do one at least it's a good experience it's a great experience okay but are there questions for Bob okay we will move on to the bidding procedure waiver recommended motion that the board waive the bidding requirements set forth in board policy 33:20 and regulation 33 20.1 and extend its contract with all star transportation for a period of two years as recommended by director of business and operations can post second okay ken sure what policy requires that we go out to bid for any purchase large like the transportation contract transportation contracts are typically done for five years as you can imagine it's a large investment for a new company to come in and bring in new buses and people and everything so we consider this the bus contract we have now ends next June two years after that we should be opening a new school we don't know yet how many tiers we will have what start times we will have and we don't feel that we have enough information to put out an RFP to to get people a reasonable chance to bid for the business so we'd like to ask the board to waive the bidding policy of the purchasing policy 33 22 allow us to sign a two-year extension we've talked with the bus company about this already they've agreed that we could continue with the exact same terms that we have now and with the three point five percent increase in each of those two years for all of the daily and hourly rates in the contract which is about what the rate that that has been increasing every year in the current contract are those salary rates I'm sorry if I can ask a question now those salary rates at all impacted by the minimum wage change at wage changes at the state level I don't believe so okay it's a why three and a half percent well with an aging fleet they will require them probably to replace some of the buses during that period of time and the ones that they don't really place will probably require more maintenance than they do now the current contract provides that the buses have to be at least 2010 models most of them are a little bit newer than that but not all of them are and when they did the original contract that they amortized the full cost of those buses over the life of the contract I would imagine that dated so shouldn't there be a savings because they fully amortize the most of the equipment there could be I wouldn't take the three and a half percent for granted I just I actually think I've dealt with contracts yeah you know I fully amortise all my costs over the first five years and now I want to extend that ought to be relatively you know at least the equipment portion of it oughta go down significantly more maintenance but less amortization if that's the case I can certainly go back could you please absolutely okay and the board would have to approve any even if you allow us to do the negotiation the board would still have to approve the contract okay so this all continue negotiating with them so this is a an approval to a to approve to go into negotiations okay any other questions for Ken I'm not clear though cuz it sounds like the motion is to extend the contract but I would read that as extend the contract per the terms that they've outlined do we have to modify the motion needs to be modified them yeah I'd like to move that we modify the motion to insert the words enter into negotiations to extend the contract I will second the amendment okay all my papers and we can vote on the full motion you sure okay so let's put the amendment to a vote all in favor hi hi okay so on the original motion any further discussion okay all in favor aye thank you approved as enough approved as amended yes okay moving on to new business we have a budget transfer recommended motion that the board approve one budget transfer as requested by director of business and operations can post wasn't seconded Oh second thank you thank you I usually start first and then I'm told so I'm requesting a transfer of three thousand nine hundred eighty eight dollars from extended duty salaries into team curriculum leader salaries to account for a middle school English language arts curriculum leader position that was inadvertently omitted from the 1920 budget so that's a stipend yes okay I just gonna say that's a pretty small number for us it's an existing it's an existing stipend to position we're just moving it from the extended duty is yes what does that do to the extended do you project it small impact lowers it the total extent of duty budget is well over $200,000 an extended Duty is like curriculum writing I think so much of it is and that's not a problem then you know I didn't discuss it with dr.
Ruby yes especially as it relates to curriculum mommy yeah okay are there any other questions for dr. Ruby or Ken okay so all in favor okay thank you hey we can move on to old business now um a lot of policies so recommended motion that the board approved policy number 30 to 20 state and federal funds for a final reading as recommended by the policy and communications subcommittee the first reading was on November 6 2019 second okay so when I was chair of the policy committee I didn't receive any feedback on any of these policies unless you guys have questions or edits or statements about them we can probably move these move through these pretty quickly so and for the new members I don't know if you got a chance to read through them but they're pretty straightforward now this group was pretty straight yeah okay so all in favor aye policy 3000 recommended motion that the board approve policy 3000 concept and roles in business and non-instructional operations for a final reading is recommended by the policy communications subcommittee first reading was on November 6 2019 second okay any discussion all in favor aye recommended motion that the board approve policy 3280 gifts grants and bequests for a final reading is recommended by the policy and communication subject many first reading was on November 6 2019 second any discussion okay all in favor aye recommended motion that the board approve policy 33:13 relations with vendors for a final reading as recommended by the policy and communications subcommittee first reading was on November 6 2019 second any discussion okay all in favor aye so can those will all be updated with today's date then yes okay so next up we have a revision to the 2020 2021 school calendar recommend a motion that the Board discussed and approved a revised 2020 2021 school calendar as presented by superintendent dr.
John Burrell thank you so they're just two two items that I want to discuss on the the 2021 calendar I wasn't here for the November 6 meeting and so there's a couple of things when Lisa and I were putting the final touches on this that were left out for discussion so the first one is very simple in June the last day of school shows now appropriately as June 9th on 182nd student day rather than the 14th which was the 185th student day and for those of you on the board and those of you watching at home just a reminder that the public act 19 195 has been amended as of July 1 2019 whereas you are able to schedule high school graduation day high school graduation date if you have less than 185 student days in 2018 and before you had to have 185 student days in order to before April 1st schedule the graduation date so what we decided to do is install emergency snow days to give us 185 student days so then mr.
Malanda could work with western Connecticut and the O'Neill Center to make sure we got on the list to establish a graduation date well in advance so we'd get the date we wanted there's no need for that any longer currently this year we have our calendar set but we don't have to do it for this year he's actually already established the graduation date for this school year but for next school year I just wanted to take 185 days off we did not need it we have 182 student days so we end June 9th so that's a pretty straightforward change the other modification if we go to December if you look at December of the 2021 calendar one thing to consider in what I just talked about with our whiskey near students desiring a early dismissal if you look Wednesday December 23rd is the day prior to Christmas Eve day that typically and I benchmarked that with our neighboring districts is an early dismissal it's something that was just not considered when we put the calendar together no one asked about it or anything right now it's in decay indicated as it's a full day and I wanted to make sure the board was comfortable with the idea of making December 23rd a early dismissal day and that's what I bring to you and that would be the only two modifications to the next year's calendar so John just to clarify are we able to set the graduation date then yes we can we've already sketched scheduled that for this year because the Act prohibiting schools with less than 185 days so we in we marks be scheduled 185 for this year it's not to confuse people so we've already got a schedule okay and the other discussion on that okay all in favor thank you everyone okay so now we are moving on to the review of the superintendent's 2020 2021 budget proposal this is just an action so I had asked sort of a laundry list of questions that I had sent to they're coming around hardcopy as responses to the questions and there was other questions to rose to to Ken and John so most of it was just you know for clarification so I mean this is certainly a discussion for any other any questions per you know they don't have to be my questions or any clarifications on that but this is sort of the opportunity to further our budget discussions how do you want to do you want to are we gonna go through the responses or do you want us to all pieces did you get a chance I didn't know if you got a chance to read them ahead of time I read your questions but this is the first time okay I'm gonna respond so yeah responses were sent out of The Weekend Update on Friday there were all these responses yeah okay I remember where you'd seen there also is a you know just to kind of get the discussion going here we also at the Finance Committee meeting on on Monday night we also discussed the concept of the status quo budget the outliers in the investments and some of the investments some discussion about some of the things that I along with the team here categorized as investments might really be part of status quo for example needing new teachers at center school because of enrollment you're not really investing in new programming or anything like that we're just maintaining our class size and we just have more students so perhaps that should be part of the status quo so there was some discussion there so we can I mean I don't know where anybody would like to start but I wanted to bring that up as a particular topic and then also mr.
Beldon had asked if mr. Baldwin would join us for the meeting to entertain some questions perhaps on athletics that had come up at the last board meeting so there's you know a couple of directions we certainly can go over the board would like to do so I'll start and I'll I'll say that I think that's a good sort of jumping-off point you know I I had sort of looked at a lot of our increases and I think that was that was a view shared when this was first proposed was that so many of them really weren't new investments they were things we needed to do and so I thought it would be best to sort of recategorize or operationally define status quo as something that may be different than what this town has historically been used to related to that I think I think that status quo and we don't even need to stick with that term but it's really what is it going to cost to keep everything the same including class sizes demographic changes enrollment changes keep our services exactly the same and that does include for next year new teachers so but I don't know what your thoughts are on on that or do we do our typical status quo with like a subsection of demographic changes you know there's a lot of things that we can do but the communication of this budget is going to be really obviously important well it strikes me that you're right right which is status quo is keeping our programs the way they are but this year there are so many things that are happening in turn in that status quo budget that even if we bundled it in there we can't just bundle it as a single number we're gonna have to spend some time with the public with the Board of Finance with the selectmen explaining what is that what are those dynamics and I think about the one that jumped out of me was this 2% increase in insurance costs right you've been calling that into a separate bucket that it truly is status quo it's just not something we like and and the additional class sizes due to enrollment I think fits in there those were two big drivers and John and your prison tailor and I think they are status quo right but we need to articulate that very clearly we could also just do away with status quo and put and just have a bunch of those buckets contractual and inflationary increases demographic increases outliers like insurance I mean well somewhere you have to talk about base increases you know so there'll be teacher increases contractually required salary increases and and we actually had a benefit I was surprised to see him there on our as an electric or fuel and went down yeah that was actually I went in there I said that's the first time I've seen that and then 15 marginally involved on this so and I think one of the things to communicate is that almost the entire budget is really salaries a huge percentage of it so it might make sense to communicate how much of the budget do we actually spend on people and then how much does that increase clearly so then I think folks realize that's what we're dealing or through dealing with really the human resources of the organization I think that's important to communicate it clearly because John you didn't have that many real investments in very small look at that on real new new things we were we started to break that down we pulled the pull the slide out right from the presentation a Finance Committee on Monday night and about half of the items on there could fit into what we're calling right now status quo absolutely for example the the enrollment with center school we need more sections there this year paid for out of a grant are a number of hair professionals a special education clerk has started halfway through the year so that that is really a status quo rather than an investment and so we have the difference in there and then there's some monitors there as well for the increasing number of students at Center school a coach you know a coach position in cross country we thought my fitness that as well because of so many students and it's something to keep that program alive with a incredible participation that one would be an investment you know so well exactly and that's for the discussion this was what we talked about at the Finance Committee meeting and then the BHS turn it in and the whiskey near newsela subscription those would also be status quo because they're either free or very minimal investment so they've just increased so much that we called them an investment they certainly could that's not new to the school so that makes sense that that would fit into status quo and then certainly the subsequent supplies text furniture etc that would go with the new sections the center school you know to outfit those classrooms that would be status quo so I mean there's that there's a number of things there that certainly fit in that base budget to base budget communication bucket however we want articulate go so I don't know how you guys you know feel about you know communicating some of these changes but it's certainly guidance that I could use in communicating this budget to other boards so please I agree you know and I was reflecting from on Monday night and thinking about the fact that we've got really a short turnaround time when you consider the holiday break between the opportunities we have to meet together so I was thinking that that this might be something we really talked about tonight and it could be a comeback for the team and I so we can make sure on I think it's January 8th and 9th is their next meeting that that's clearly articulated and you know there's still some questions or some adjustments we need to make we can do that together as a group because three weeks later after January 8th we're handing this over to the Board of Selectmen in history we have two more shots on yeah especially in which we always you know we've done traditionally we typically do that but I was thinking maybe that's something tonight we kind of get some agreement on the investments the status quo of what we want to call those and then that's something pretty straightforward and concrete that we can get done in the next couple of weeks before the next meeting and we could actually put it up on the screen as a slide and get people very comfortable with that you know and if it's different nomenclature then that's what it is and then you go forward with that as we bring it to the community February and throughout the rest of this Frank so the most broad definition of our new status quo would be keeping everything everything the same including all of our services and programs and what that would cost we could shuffle things into sort of sub buckets if you wanted yeah and I think Bob's point is though and then to communicate well why is it look like it's more than usual well it's the demographic story so that's the story that we have to tell is explain what are the demographic changes and what impact does that have on a school budget sure so that's really the story behind the difference in status quo even if part of the outliers gent to the earlier point about the 2% fee for the insurance it's a significant dollar about the town's experience the same thing we shared we have the same insurance so if that's part of status quo and again it's explained color coded however is that really communicated clearly to everybody involved all of our stakeholders yeah and then really the investment should be new program sure right new programs new positions that enhance our right right right like the math interventionists I would think of it as an investment and then that's clear I'm just gonna if you guys don't learn I'll take two minutes I'll just go down this and see if we agree and that would then maybe give Kevin and John direction from the board there were no patient best the investments paid the chart that's called it's like the PowerPoint it's in the PowerPoint and it's like the seventh chart in 6th 7th 8th show then let's kinda there's the word investments in yellow it's after the word charts and after his summary numbers chart this one yep I think the next flap is the next one I think there you go so just quickly going down I think the kindergarten teacher is kind of more of a status quo grade one teachers as the status quo of the reduction in a grade three teacher is status quo that was not those were all driven by enrolment the PE teacher at centre school was a status quo that kind of went along with the additional enrollment the math and interventionist I think is an investment agreed the eol teacher is an investment I could argue that both ways but it's a but it's you mean I could argue that status quo I could argue that's an investment it's because we've had a big increase but not this year right we're just kind of catching up with the growth we've had enough we had agreed a couple budgets ago that we would not go for the full teacher and we go with the tutor who's right and well that helped and we've really I mean - Kevin's credit have done a wonderful job with supporting students with that it's still not enough and so we're just coming back and being totally transparent saying no I don't I don't doubt that I'd actually think it's an investment well we're investing in a real program that's a great investment trust me the word investment doesn't mean word not supporting it we don't think it's a it is an investment the American sign language teacher no Bob that's just a tree that's just a trade off to the virtual eyes I'll get a teacher status quo yep yep right the three ABA para fat professionals would be in the status quo the sped clerk this is the one because of the what we did in like two meetings ago I thought we were funding that from surplus money we had available that's four we redirected this yes the addition for next and it's only part of the year this year it's also because it was just a part yet this was to account for the rest of the year I got to status quo math tutors investment monitors investment we need two more monitors because of the increase in the part-time yeah that has to go with the actual sections that Center then it's status quo okay that's the classroom the ASL facility oh that's that's the trade on that status quo correct and the coach I think is an investment and don't be people who disagree with me but it's um I understand deal either way rationale either way folks more uncomfortable with investment as we go down to $2,500 it's not as well you have question very buds okay the BHS security service investment yes right the virtual high school is part of that trade-off that saw status quo and writing texts definitely BHS textbooks is that a second policeman or was that these are this the Spanish ones that's a status always well there new Spanish textbooks they're replacing old low it's not lately so grand it's it's we have we originally had a plan presented by chemin Holly I I'm losing track of time here but I think was two years ago where she presented what the roll up would be for the replacement of new books because the only ones that we have are obsolete and so it's not new programming it's supporting the program that we already have and I heard clearly was they were way out of date yeah that was replace yes status quo can I ask you a question about for your opinion on the handwriting text I'll tell you what's going on there we we developed a approach to teaching handwriting more systematically and so in order to do that because we weren't teaching cursive writing in a systematic way that was uniform across all the classrooms we and those of us who can write in cursive know that you have to be able to print appropriately in order to build it right cursive if you're making your circle letters backwards that's not going to translate when you go to cursive so what we did in our plan missus various and I worked with the principals we had everybody K through 3 working on manuscript for a couple years to get everybody on they're on the same page and the plan from three years ago was that we would then once we knew that everybody had had explicit direct instruction in manuscript write and printing then we would be able to then move to cursive so we're there and so that's what this isn't something new says there are new books because now the children are ready and the teachers need the material so I don't know like what your feeling is on what we call that investment it's a good investment it's a good but it's an investment I think not we're just we're expanding our scope of what we're doing with the kids is the way I think we're not just doing the same old thing turnitin.com that's the rate increase right that was a rate increase the turnitin yes oh did I miss one the flexo edulearn program would be an investor as its brand around yeah yeah for the Turnitin and newsela were just rate increase correct the new the equipping of the new sections is the status quo health benefits is status quo or proportionally portion it'll be proportional and the FICA would be proportionate to the news death and can I'd like to just suggest that we take the health benefits on the FICA and put it in with the salary with we are bored of finances used to hearing $85,000 first your head and you've got 68 up here and then you've married the health benefits and FICA down here I think it's just simpler to communicate whatever we even if you had there's a footnote down on the bottom here's what makes that easy here's how you get to 85 but it just makes it easier to digest is everyone okay with that absolutely okay and then John I think it would be that test is gonna be not just read a brigade in the details there's a lot of work there how would you explain it sure so people write because this is it makes it easier to digest in my opinion and because you're tying it all around to the goals from the us meaning was actually hard to get through it was clear once you got through it but it was hard because you were flipping through that back and forth on charts and trying to follow your thread I actually think you're gonna end up with a very few real investments you almost do it on a page yeah right and I think and then you spend have to add a second page on an unexplained er what's going on to our status quo because that'll be not to point what was the percentage I have two points two point six seven percent it's gonna be it's gonna be three points right and so they're doing people who look at us and say how could you have a status quo three point seven well there's recently yeah there's reasons for why that's happening to and I think Bob what's what's great about this exercise right now and this is why when we we have these conversations as a committee of the whole essentially is exactly to the point I made when I present that this two weeks ago is it's not necessarily gonna look exactly like I proposed it because the board needs to own and adopt this by the end of January you know and it really is the communication of the budget that's really the important piece here anybody can put a spreadsheet together on what the increases are and the investments it's how do we explain it and I wanted to be crystal clear and transparent of the precise kind of we call traditional way of looking at the status quo but really understand the questions that came up over the last two weeks with the board that some of those things I was categorizing as investments really are status quo through this exercise tonight so I think that is really important because the our stakeholders and our elected officials who will ultimately be looking at this budget in a couple of months can see that we went through this exercise and it's very transparent so I think that the the process is incredibly important and having it on tape for those who are going to be taking this budget very seriously and making determinations really important and I think that'll leave them with a lot of belief and credibility in the board's process I think you know we started with your presentation was $700,000 of investment and I was having the reaction that that's not all investment correct you're probably only looking at like two hundred thousand dollars of investment I mean as investment items so that's that's not a big investment amount on the size of your work the end of the day we have a lot we must do with our students that has to happen yeah can we just go back to the textbooks for a minute because I missed part of Maureen what you were saying when I go back when I go to a few pages ahead we see that the textbooks include world language English and social studies yes so what's this the case with English and social studies are they new could actually have more come talk to that as well mark do you mind coming up to the podium yeah and just the just so you know that the curriculum committee did hear presentations throughout the year at the Cape committee meetings and had seen the materials them that mark is going to talk about and then we discussed it at board meetings all right I think we're on okay so in English some of those questions are really about actual novels so really a constant textbook so it's like novels that kids would be reading in classes we're really moving to kind of moved to a much more thematic based approach we're not adding any new English classes are not adding like an English to be or anything like that it's so good meeting this one two three four but we're looking to do is give students choice an opportunity to read different different books with different themes so and then we're also updating you know we need extra copies of Catcher in the Rye there's there's so many that some of the you have to get and then in terms of social studies and the large chunk and I know Kevin's here the large chunk of that textbook money is really towards world language it's a huge piece you know because of the books actually are expensive in social studies those are to buy additional textbooks for ap government in politics you know those enrollment has increased their ap psychology the same thing so we're looking to just bolster the numbers that already have to support the number of the higher enrollments that we that we've seen over the last several years and so we're not sharing books or things like that because as we go back and forth we've got dr.
Ben I've had this discussion about the importance of actually having a textbook versus reading something online there certainly is a value to that as well so that's what those are it is status quo there's no new courses being it's not part of any length out it's just really to bolster the current correct class sets and do we have I mean we bought textbooks this year I'm presuming we did buy some textbook so as you would looked at these there's a some of that we you know it's not real all growth year to year no it's not all growth rate yeah and so is this the raw number or just the change in the year to your budget we're looking at so the number and I don't have that number right here that you're looking at because I think you probably a huge number that you're looking at that's going across the board for textbooks I'm not sure what exactly you're looking mm yeah it's a 40 through 10,000 showing as an investment so okay so I mean I just don't know if that's your total budget or if that's the year-to-year increase in the budget that's the total budget yeah yeah you're here yeah thanks mark this is so one of the things I'm thinking about in terms of communication is really this idea of like budget drivers you know so what really drives the budget to people so people understand and so what we think drives the budget well number one is obviously contractual obligations increase in salary health benefits that go along with that whatever else are our big drivers well they're an increase in enrollment in changing demographics in our community and maybe you know third is some of our special education needs so those are things that drive the increase and they help to sort of explain perhaps why we need additional investments and that doesn't mean status quo or not it's just what drives or the the budget to increase so I think that's one way we could think about communicating it and then you take a small subset of that and call it new investment right right right and that makes it so it jumps out as in a list of things so for example if you go to the I think it's a seven slide I apologize it was printed PowerPoint numbers [Music] but there's one title budget drivers and so it has those pieces that you're talking about Jen in there and yeah you know as we think about how we come back on this title 2020 2021 budget drivers I think it's about the second slide in so it's got the contractual inflationary increases you see them and then certainly the International Education Commission and transportation mm-hmm staffing to match enrollment and then obviously the strategic things we need to do to enhance the programming so I can easily put together a list like that with dollars and percentages next to it that would be very helpful I think when people know you're on when people see these drivers if what you're talking about Ken if they can actually see the detail behind it it will tie everything that we're saying together because I think that you know we we live with this budget and the few folks have looked at it but somebody who's just saying it for the first time and and sees drivers but doesn't really know what subsumed under those that are connected to what's on the other page for what's already being done compared to what would be something that's totally new you know you just can't connect those dots when you're not familiar with it so I think that what Ken just proposed would help I've already had multiple people just call me up and say what are you guys thinking they didn't even look at the presentation we did all they saw heard was a bottom-line number but yeah when you hear the bottom-line number and that's all you react to your gonna form on the opinion right and so we have to take every chance we have to explain what the drivers are right there's no doubt in my mind but it's already 6.8% what are you thinking maybe that's their way and I'd rather tell the story mm-hmm all right we have a story rather than list everything under status quo or investments we just listed under the drivers drivers yeah yeah you do that yeah I would I would also say there's a big story in here on special education because about you know from the you know that we talked about it the last meeting right it's it hits this year and it also hits next year but it shows up in the budget and we need to tell that story more fulsomely than we are in this package right it's taking assuming that our audience is taking it for granted here's the trend of the number of kids who are out placed right here's the average cost per child but when you do that here's you know and without with of course we can't reveal is you know student specific stuff but tell the story of what the trends are what's been going on there's a story here that we've heard right and but others happened and then that links into both 2019-20 and a 2020 21 budget you know budget was phenomena that is it becomes the story of this budget when you actually step back from it right it's it's the same as we had was a two years ago or three years ago to two year two month there were some good charts and object by the way that we took us a couple of iterations to build it up right in different forums I know they actually work pretty well but that that's a they yeah I think each of the drivers have to have a storyline behind it right here's what's going on here's what's happening with the teacher here's what's happening with contractual increases think think think think think right here's what's happening with insurance costs well there's this kind of increase on you know because of the I mean I still am amazed that we have get it was a two percent surcharge present we're getting a two percent surcharge from the insurance company because we're in Fairfield County I mean I just it's it's appalling and for our Board of Finance member in the audience it's gonna hit the town side too it's cuz it's the same program so it's just it gives a huge year-to-year increase so I think in Canada you're thinking about it the black sheep behind each of the points is important in that fact sheet on special ed is really important right because it's the story of this budget and I'd like to go through that in our next meeting I would be probably the best out of the night is kind of teeing that up so that's what we could see how that might look we think that's a perfect comeback that was my reflection over the last 48 hours really thinking that through what we could do tonight to get us ready for the next meeting really helpful yeah and I think that gets us away from this idea of status quo which is kind of nebulous I'm not sure if people understand it it's really about what's driving the budget increase what are the ideas behind it and you know within that you can explain well this would be a you know type of a status quo thing versus an investment you could address that but I think it's really why is the budget changing so people can understand yep that's more clear so speaking of the status quo myself and another board member had asked to look at sort of now that we're we're saying okay status quo includes our existing services existing programs one of the UM board member had asked if there was an exercise that we could go through to take a deeper dive into those existing programs to see because a lot of them are not mandated but there's something that we value and and we have historically done so I didn't know if anybody wanted to kick off that conversation with any specific questions about programming or so this is under letter a so these are things that are not mandated correct so I'd say if we were to number them one being what we value as the most important figure to number them one before how would we number those I [Music] wonder if there's a way I'm not sure if this is the right way but to monetize each of these two like helmet well I know it's the Athletics like what how much do we spend on earth let exhale we spend on stipends how much do we spend on the World Language Program you know how much does it cost us to keep within our current class size versus increase it that might give us some data to look at I mean in the proposal we're adding keeping the class sizes the same by net adding to Elementary section right so so I'm saying you get done exercise before yeah yeah it's a simple exercise in the elementary schools it's much more complicated in Wrightsville school and we could go through I could certainly quantify you know one extra section in every elementary class would be easy to do I'd probably have to talk to Dean and mark about how we would quantify anything at the high school in middle school even that is difficult because then you're talking supplies furniture everything I mean you can say he's one less teacher in every major subject with that due to class size yeah so I mean I guess part of this exercise is to sort of yeah sort of reframe where our values are because that obviously will determine our budget for next year so I mean we sort of have to ask ourselves how important are our class sizes and at what grade levels you know how heavily do we want to invest in the other things because I think we are gonna have to I do believe it's a worthwhile exercise for us to understand on the take class sizes you know if we reduced a teacher in each grade level elementary if we and and at the middle school right those are you know those are that's harder I got that too all that size but maybe you define what you reduce but if you had to if you were faced with reduction what would that mean right sometimes it's class size sometimes it's something else and at the high school you know what would a reduction of four across the high school for teachers business for greatest right maybe it's you know three in the middle or four in the middle school today but take a case work and say if you were faced with a reduction of one right what does that mean right what does it mean to class size which are the applications like that and let's I think that's a worthwhile exercise as a board that we go through Frank I'd advocate that but it's but I think it's worth less than the number so for the exercise just for the elementary school schools I'm sorry exercising that just for that at the elementary level maybe do it for oh absolutely no but as far as exercise easier right I can easily quantify the savings and the impact on class size for the Elementary's and I think we ought to understand the spending on the world language K through six I think that's something we oughta and say here's what we spend on it right and I saw in the answer you talked about the number of FTEs and things like that but we have to just lay that out here's what the spend is I'm not gonna have another set of January meetings like the last time we have that does and then after school clubs I think we ought to understand what we're spending there right and the sports we ought understand what we're spending sure I try to see an exercise there yeah the club I think playing house for letting us understand what we're spending Charles and and one of my questions which I haven't sent you yet I'd like to understand what we're spending on the Arts not that I ever would advocate taking it away but you know we've had in the roundtable that was the one question we had was about the Arts right when we had our community roundtable and we had don't have anything in here yeah that really should be and we ought to at least to understand what we're spending across music and the fine arts one of the reasons it wasn't in the responses is that the arts programs that we have minimally k-8 but through the high school are mandated I have to have art and music and PE knows that those are musts yeah I would just language at elementary school is not a mandate for us yeah I would sort of try to separate that two versus what's man if you're gonna look at arts low summated versus what's right well what we're going to look at yeah our existing but not mandated right I think to keep that together as important to the not and oronzo because we can't look at but I'd like to know what we're spending on the art yeah sure we can do that I think what you'll find is we're spending on what's mandated for them for the majority of our arts pieces okay so that would make a healthy it's a lot come back that's a lot of time at a reframing of the presentation and some detail on this would be a very healthy meaning sure it's what we spend on vocational school the magnet school is that mandated or not mandated yes magnet school yeah no go AG program oh and also the magnets ball like though our alternative sort of placements would we consider that mandated or not mandated or is it or is it GRA believe it's mandated but I think we have some control over how many students we allow they have the right to go to those schools and then then you once you have spaces that were agreed upon years ago you have those spaces you have students in those seats now mm-hmm it becomes very difficult to take them if you went to a reduction in that area you'd have to have a slow phase one yeah yeah cuz that wouldn't necessarily help in the current yeah oh just curious if it was mandated or not for them the responses that you got from on all these detailed questions did you see anything that was bothered you know most of it was clarification for me so I think one of the things I'd like to go through is a detailed review of our technology investments sure um maybe this next meeting maybe the one after what to figure out how to balance it but I think there's always a structural thing in here on i.t which i think is really important for us but I don't think we understand it and enough depth to understand the whys and the wherefores and what are we investing in enough that I could stand up in front of anybody and say and and say this is absolutely critical right I mean I know a lot of the program's you do a great job of explaining them to us but I think we got to go through that exercise absolutely and because I think it's a bigger chunk of money than people know you know with some of the credits we have and things you know I saw some of the questions in here which were great with technology we're actually level funding we're not asking for new funding but there is a healthy portion of the budget dedicated yeah but the level funding is interesting it's what is it what's important right you know or let it what is it that we're spending the money and what's that getting us right so that's because no matter whether you level fund it or cut it in half or double it you're you're doing operations you're doing it for a reason sure right it's because there there's n things in there that you need to do a lot of IT investment is not the same every year is not a sum of it is but not all so a lot of it's real new things new equipment new capabilities replacement capable is ever see all the time a lot of good things in there yeah I mean even what I'm sorry DEP your turn I was just gonna say on the response about the field trips hmm that the list of field trips there I understand the ones like when eighth grade is going to be HS to practice for the looming up ceremony but the ones that are more like competitions conferences cultural trips are we saying the district is paying for participation in those events or is it transportation to those events what's our cost yeah this is transportation costs dis account so we're providing the teams or or clubs are going as a club and we're providing transportation to to all of these events parents don't pay us I also hoping to get some clarification on alarm systems proprietary yes what is that we feel that means they have the company denied alarm if it's their system that's that we use so they are the ones who have to monitor it for us so I guess I don't understand why can't be bedded fitted on if we replace the armed systems we would bid it okay but just this was related to the monitoring of it we have we researched sort of other companies where we might switch I have not it's an interesting question I mean whether bidding and one of the lessons I've learned over the years is when I hear the word proprietary I hear the word expensive so I'm just I don't know what it would mean for us to business and we've had that issue with some of our building management systems which we tried trying to get away from and we've had the conversations with Tecton about what they're gonna be doing in the new school and trying to do the same thing as we upgrade our systems in the other schools to get away from the prices proprietary stuff we really are gonna be looking at that because if you think about it in capital we have a I think it's just over a million dollars to upgrade our management system here for HVAC looking at the same thing in the older system at the middle school and then obviously we're having to have a brand new Elementary School so one of the major pieces of that is with Tecton and what they're advising us on with the new buildings it's matching all of these organs she's been coordinating all this together so not only it's more efficient but what can we do in terms of the system itself yeah but I just say I'm gonna piggyback on Mike's point we have closets the monitor that stuff or maintain that stuff I would want to make sure that whatever if you go down that path they all have the ability for us to bring in different support structures if we choose a great that's as opposed to once you sign up with me you have to stay ready forever exactly why we're working with tech grain we've had that conversation with them our unhappiness okay but is that kind of your point yeah isn't it hard to have a hold on the cost increases when things are proprietary yeah yes what's the increase on the cost on that line it's not increasing that's not it okay I was also curious about I don't know why I went back and looked at previous prior years but the electricity line 562 - OH just seems to have these crazy fluctuations you know back to 2016-17 it was five hundred ninety seven thousand the following year it went down by thirty thousand to five sixty-six then it swung back up to five hundred and ninety eight thousand then it went down again I could see these kind of changes like throughout the year seasonal changes or whatever but year to year just why is it up and down and up and down like that I would have to research that I would speculates the wrong word but I know that huckleberry is on all-electric school so the weather impact on the heating and cooling that school would significantly affect yeah charges per year to year and do you know if we've ever done any kind of energy audit in the other schools like huckleberry we know is going away but can we it would seem to me that over time our energy efficiency would get better with you know better lightbulbs sensors things like that that we've been implementing over the years so I'm just curious why that number is still so high yeah we did have somebody come in here a couple of years ago and do an audit of the lighting but at the time the facilities committee committee did not move forward with that it's probably something we should look into because you can gain significant efficiencies with lighting probably something the service that we would have to bid out in a court nor our policy but that's something just has not been resurrected do we do we know how much of that that electric bill is tied to the heating of the one school I would have to look I don't know off the top of my head because if that's you know 50 60 % of it that would explain a lot but you know and it would also say they'll what you do for lighting and things like that it might be behaving differently mm-hmm we just talked about on the Facilities Committee um you know staff having their personal belongings that could really put a damper on our electrical bill as far as refrigerators and microwaves so I definitely like to look into that as far as making cuts that wouldn't affect students there's I have a million dollars in electric lamp and like I said if there's these big swings just I'd like to understand I mean true if it's all coming from huckleberry or a big part of it is coming from huckleberry then that's easy to explain of it I guess on our next Facilities Committee meeting we shouldn't talk about you oh yeah we can resurrect that and start talking about what we would like to do when is the next facilities meeting January game yeah for our next step why don't we make that a topic on the Facilities Committee I was thinking back to the issue of communicating the budget and we know we invest a lot in curriculum and I was wondering maureen if that could be something you help educate us on - so what are looking forward what will be the where will we be spending the money in terms of curriculum writing so we sort of understand the story and you know to what extent is a continuation of last year you know so we really fully understand the vision for the year and that would help us communicate the spending of that type of money maybe in a future meeting absolutely you know we're said number of comebacks of getting 20 slides in there just repackaging it differently that's fine yeah absolutely well speaking of curriculum I did have as you guys all saw some questions about our K through six Spanish program and since Kevin's here you know I wanted to make sure that it was actually an education for me when I read this was that we really don't have a language acquisition program K through six so it is considered an exploratory program and maybe you can explain the differences between that but I think it's an important thing to sort of you know make sure if we want to you know keep some of these very big-ticket items and this is one of those we really have to understand sort of what's behind it so in order to have a bless program one that promotes foreign language acquisition research tells us that we need at least 90 minutes a week of world language instruction for students to be able to build on their language proficiency currently our K through six program has we're averaging 45 minutes a week you know which in terms of language acquisition is frustrating for our students and also for our teachers because year after year we're not seeing the growth we would be expecting from a language acquisition program until seventh grade which is when they start receiving regular world language of instruction daily currently at Center students take world language Spanish once a week same thing at huckleberry and you can imagine for example with the snow days and with the delays it might be several weeks before a world language teacher sees her same class again so that that is quite frustrating and we actually met you know Google hangout two days ago to discuss that the implications for our students because you know our our plus team the K through 16 that is our priority to try and build proficiency however you know we we don't have the minutes currently therefore we could only say that it's an exploratory program where students are exposed to the Spanish language but there's not enough minutes weekly to build upon their proficiency and they're also explored they they're also exposed to cultural topics as well of the different types of cultures from spanish-speaking countries and it is it correct to say that we took away from the socialized curriculum to to get this program that we have in place currently hey it would seem that way yes for grades 5 & 6 we had a huge debate on the five six no it was the other way around now even in elementary grades we we are still taking time for to have the minimal Spanish that we have from what would be given to social studies in science in the middle school there's and maybe chem and you can explain how that works but we the students a couple years ago we're getting 50% of their social studies time as they would be getting if we we're it's a school district that was providing the hundred percent because 50 percent of the social stage time went to Spanish when we made the change we did not get back all the social studies on time so social studies is obviously an important subject it's a mandated subject and well there's no social like we have then the next generation science standards for that's a you know a state test for science and we have the smarter balance which is for literacy and mathematics there is no state test for social studies however the work that's done in social studies incorporates the standards for English Language Arts in the social studies and that's where students read different types of texts where they would read primary source texts and then they would apply what they're learning in social studies and in English language arts to do work that is engaging students in higher order thinking and creating arguments and using evidence from more sophisticated text and that bear that experience that a student would have in social studies does bear itself out on the state assessments for English language arts in the smarter balanced and also at the high school level and at the middle school level in PSAT and SAT so some people I'm just putting this out there will say well it's not it's not a tested area so it's okay that you know take time from it it doesn't have its own test but what we are what we should be doing in a full social studies program impacts how students develop and it does show up on those other assessments so chem and back to the world languages would it be fair to say to call this arcade a six program like its enrichment the way it would you say like our Spanish program is an opportunity acceleration exploration is better yeah i would say exploration kevin how would you say our students fare with students from the magnet school who receive a much more extensive spanish program so let's say a fifth grader coming in to Brookfield compared to our current fifth grade we actually have that data we used what's called the Apple proficiency test and that test is endorsed by the American Council of teachers and foreign languages we actually had incoming students from the magnet school tested with that completely unbiased standardized test and compared to our students and they're the same they're both falling within the novice level which is just your basic survival skills in the language what do they receive at the magnet school do you is daily its daily and starting at what grade I think kindergarten are yeah that's interesting interesting and was it a statistically significant enough number of kids we looked at big yeah where we actually used to have the two honors course that we give at the high school at the middle school for this cohort of students but as part of my coming in my position I worked with the teachers to measure the proficiency levels of each student by the end of the courses and the teacher that was actually teaching the two honors course saw that the standards of proficiency that we were using for to honors they were too high for the cohort that was in that to honors class so we use this test as evidence to say this to honors class at the middle school is not sustainable because the teacher was actually teaching the students at a novice level instead of the intermediate level that that to honors so you know the assumption was made that they were coming in at a higher proficiency level but that proficiency level was never tested with a viable assessment tool until we did and we saw that they were coming in at a novice level I wouldn't have expected that yeah any other questions for Kevin I'm sure we'll have more on this subject but I think it's worthwhile to to consider as we're looking at all of our programs and you know assigning value to them Thank You Kim would you mind that we we had some questions for the athletic director of the last minutes and maybe you have him come up and talk about in particular the question we got about gymnastics and sure what we what the cost might be or what we could or could not do come on up Steve thank you perhaps maybe like athletics as a whole so we're sort of just don't want to avoid the request from the member of the public so I just don't want to avoid the request from the member of the public oh yeah no we'll get to that but I just want to make sure that Ivor is aware of the other sports that have been requested not only from from that one parent too so just go to the next one so these are the ten sports that have been asked by parents students and other members of the public over the last couple of years strength and conditioning coach ski team freshman girls lacrosse our numbers are very high in that and that's the quickest growing American sport eSports which we'll pass out lacrosse very soon freshman boys soccer team based on our numbers several boys have been asking for volleyball hockey our hockey team our kids still pay two thousand dollars a year I was speaking to a parent who has - - will have had two children she's paid $16,000 to have her two boys play hockey at Brookfield High School and that's just to play it's not skates shoulder pads helmet everything else that entails middle school girls volleyball girls volleyball is prior our biggest female participation rate four teams we usually have about sixty kids try out middle school girls cross-country in gymnastics what I learned I was away in Washington DC at the national athletic directors conference and I wrote down with some of the area ADEs and interesting enough I did not know this that Masek Joel Barlow and Weston three years they have new programs self-funded before they actually pay to have that be program and this helped to it's the sustainability so for us what we do is right now we fill out the program propulsive form the doctor Burrell has created and it's been in place since he's been here well we determined the sustainability based on our students need identify future cost and research what other schools especially in our league are doing if approved at the building level therefore to additional levels for review for inclusion in the budget referendum superintendent board ad Board of Selectmen and Board of Finance the last couple years we've asked to add strength and conditioning because that will service all 500 of our kids and a couple years ago when our trainer left we went to a service and we've had a rollover and now we have a local girl who would like to stay here but they don't pay so we'd like to go back to where we were to have you know a trainer she's good with our kids we like to keep her for a long time so trying to looked at you know based on what everybody's come to me about you know obviously a lot of this is new to everybody here you know based on what we see in conversations with the you know with mark and Dean the building principals and I'm with John you know I like with other schools do I think that's a good idea because if we're investing into a program we want to make sure it's sustainable so having three years of doing that but that's up to you it's not up to me and then are what I thought was prioritized I mean we have hockey kids that this is one of our programs that they pay $2,000 a year and then just going down and I can send this out to everybody strength and conditioning coach freshmen girls lacrosse next year we the numbers I got we're this year we have about 22 girls freshmen next year we're going to have more many other schools in swc have freshmen girls lacrosse eSports I'm learning a lot about that now it is huge it Eric yeah I'll call Eric up he can give a quick one-minute because he knows a lot Jamie it there are a lot of college scholarships it's huge there was more people to East more finals than any other sport and of course we bring the technology guy up for the game yeah this is this is where sports I'm just worried really excelence really quick I'll keep it short but um I mean eSports is exactly how it sounds a lot like electronic sports video game is now a competition right so years ago when you sat you played Mario Kart on n64 or you play Madden football now and you're having fun there are students who are actually competing and there are Madden football championships seasons where these these students actually maintain their own football team throughout the whole program you know now with video games being internet access and stuff like that there's constant updates to them live data and and these these students are actually managing a football team and then of essentially playing you know in a big arena playing a video game against another student for competition and a yeah then I can all that mark jump in on that as well I use Madden is an example but um there are national championships for for video game play and it's very exciting and it's it is it is being widely known as a sport and more and more recognized and I can provide more detail in future but I'll let March up in here as well thanks the CAC is three there's three Cup games that they play one is rocket League which you may have heard of before rocket league is kind of like an online it's essentially started as a soccer game but it's like cars the teams of two or three up to five and they play against each other trying to get a ball or a puck they can rotate all the different things into a goal there's strategies and all kinds of bonus and power-ups and things like that they do and then there's these they're actually third-person they're these it's League of Legends and also a game called spite spite where you can pick your characters you're one of the gods you can pick from any number of different you can go Athenian gods you can go Roman gods you can go Norse gods you can pick all these different and you play in teams of five against other it is huge and that's spite and then League of Legends is a similar thing where it's a teams of five online in Marty's rcic OCAC section yep sanction events yep where there's there's a coach there's the whole thing yep and that's and we have we have demonstrated interest from our kids to come in and want to play this I've got several kids who are looking forward to trying to form a team in the next year yeah yeah like multiple teams of five assigned there'd be five kids we'd probably have 30 kids willing to play yep I'm happy if you'd like I'm happy to give you some full presentation all the time but you know that is that is certainly that's much condensed race isn't growing you know you watch things online you talk to you know there's you know these these there's people that go professional they're sponsored there's kids that are 18 19 years old that are playing video games 12 to 13 hours a day and making you know six figures playing video I have seen that you know so yeah that's that's the extreme end of it but here it's more it's you know teamwork and competition and yeah so it's it's something that's out there just a curiosity Steve what's sorry what's your opinion I know you like put it somewhat high and on your sort of prioritized list okay and no offense Eric I'm just struggling to see sort of like the athleticism component of it but I see like the strategy you know I get I I see that I guess but I just I know that question came up that's not that's the question that you got yeah it's not all of what I get so I wanted to share that with you and I want it all I don't want any child to miss out on anything but when we look at it it's how do how do we prioritize that could be just my fire my priority list I want it all I don't want to see any kid in our district not having opportunity to play what they want what they love but it's we have to figure out how do we do all of it you know how do we add things do we do like the ski team you look at the ski team yeah explain explain Hotel fund yeah coaches went through got their coaches certification they got their van license they drove the van to the meets and he folded and it's not interest not not due to interest due to paying a coach coach got a new job cooking got here now it's you know he did a he he had a son on his team he wanted help he wanted to try to start it I think if he was still in the same job he would have done it but not having a paid person made it made it falter not having a budget made it falter I mean listen I I can find any means that I can't to do anything for any team I just don't have the money for everything so I I'll go anyway you want me to go with any sport you tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it it's just like I said that wasn't the only request it was the only request to you but not their only request to me well what I before the only thing that I had asked put in the budget this year was strike two conditioning because it was the most kids and like I said you know the cross-country coach cross-country coach will be just you know that was looked at because they had 75 kids at whiskey near last year so all the other items on this list are still thinking process correct not in the budget their soccer at risk and year yes so they play in whiskey near and then there's nothing as a freshman but not this past year I believe we caught 12 freshman last year we caught twenty boys freshman and JV program in that's trending up just like girls lacrosse we have 52 kids signed up this year next year we're looking at close to 70 and we're gonna caught 25 30 kids and that that's gonna be sustainable I believe like I said I want all these teams but it's I can't add everything because you guys just hope yep no we can't we're trying to keep budget at a number what do I add now I'll sit down with everybody try to figure out every team how to get it and means to do it but it can't do it in a week give me time I'll figure it all out this was honestly really helpful just to understand like your process because this is a lot of new information that I didn't really realize when it I mean there is if you have less than a certain amount and despite the sport like gymnastics you can do let's call the team one if you have two kids they can go to another school and be that team team of one once you get over to then you can't do it what you get over for you can't co-op you have to have your own team then it becomes it goes from very low to very high budget and you assume with the team of one that there is another swc team willing to take us on and I don't believe out of the goodness of their heart they would take us on there's cost to that they would take the number of students and then they would proportionately divide the paying for their coach or whatever it came in transportation so there's a lot that we have to check with the insurance company I mean there's a lot that goes into this yeah I mean even at thought about say they take out kids this year they may not take a my next year or we go over to then what do we do at four or five then all of a sudden you know those kids got to do it last year but not this year I mean so realistically I there has to be some kind of plan in place where did the parents want to pay okay but then what happens if this happens and then what happens if this happens so we need to understand how do we get here where we want all of our teams to be without failing we don't want to see our kids fail or not have the opportunity or have the opportunity and then it's taken away correct likes it because of numbers and I have a question on the strength you said it was the most higher on your list strength conditioning is there a way to create a internship program with let's say West Wescott where the hpx majors can get some kind of coaching certification I don't know how I'm just throwing out there is there is a way to contrast A's out maybe outsource the strength and conditioning to a local gym or like I said maybe provides or have a local gym certified trainer work with a an intern from West Kong if they're gonna do it for free I'm all for it well let me there do it for an experience free well then again they have to get to Connecticut State coaching certification first aid CPR they have to be reliable so we're gonna take kid from Southern I got exams I'm going away I mean I'm Miguel but what other schools are doing this is what they're going to this is a thing yes okay so our coaches do it yeah why don't you explain how we utilize strengthen conditioning what it cost parents now absolutely the last couple years second our parents have paid to have their we have a trainer come in and the parents have paid so like the models that West and Joel Barlow and Masek have this would be year or two where the parents are funding it but then you run it to the issue of kids who can't afford it okay I go on than we earn with baseball some kids go out to other gyms to left I take the kids who need to be in there so they have a place to go and I do that because I don't want them not to lift yeah and you know I I all of our coaches don't do it and I don't I'm going to throw this out there and that's not why I'm here tonight is 18 years was the last time our coaches have got a percent and we're starting to fall to the bottom what's happening is and those on the go she a ting committee might know this I don't know it was a big item of discussion but the stipends for coaches are at a lower level in comparison to the neighboring districts and things so it's getting harder and harder to attract coaches to our jobs and the strength and conditioning coach was something that we've had previously been requested but it's been cut it was cotton question yeah we tabled it last year so it's like I said I want all this I do I know you and you guys want a male we want all of our kids to have every opportunity but we have to come up with a plan I mean looking at you know 10 9 10 things you know what's the plan and I'll sit down with anybody who wants to help me with the plan I'll figure it out yeah well in the thing is seat Steve's right there and the timing of when we talked recently at one of our retreats with a strategic plan we you know talked about the profile of a graduate and we had a lot of work we knew ahead of us one of the exercises at administrative council we're going to go through in January is each of the department heads are going to be working on kind of a three to five-year visioning of their particular department because this will dovetail nicely with some spring work we'll do as a board at a higher level in terms of what we're looking for for the learning experiences for our kids and develop you know revitalizing the strategic plan [Music] then it's like it's like I said it's we need to look at how many kids does it affect in and what is the is it sustainable what like like I look at freshman girls lacrosse our numbers are huge in lacrosse on the town right now huge so I we know we need that otherwise we start losing kids eSports and Steve let's just and girls lacrosse for a second you also know that we're talking with the youth lacrosse folks that there's a pipeline of kids coming through historically your argument on sustainability yeah so in like interest which elastics I'm trying to find out what maybe do a survey at the younger younger levels where are the kids going to the gyms now I it's not like like lacrosse soccer we have those programs in town I know what we're going it's easy to reach out with the people I work with already to find out what's going on we need to know that you know the numbers like it with gymnastics also to is we have to find the gym say it would be awesome if we got ten kids we know we're going to have a team but where do we put it all these surrounding towns have wrestling rooms were within the wrestling rooms they have dance and cheer practice we don't have that right now it's very limited space for what we have and then where do we put the gymnastics equipment so now we have to go and find out what gym could we use can we use it long-term as our coach able to get there what's the cost was the insurance you know this is a much bigger undertaking than it appears so I mean that's just it's like I said we have to find out you know what the trends are and how many we're gonna go and you know a big concern that you raises this whole issue of equity - so I mean that shocking how much those hockey parents have to pay yes yeah and to say that that's a high school team but yet we charged like private school tuition and we haven't it's like I said the one parent one parent we have her second son's coming through has paid $16,000 for him to play here both of her sons to play here and that doesn't include the $500 skates the 50 sticks they had to buy you know it's we want to start new things and do everything for everybody but how is that fair to them that's that's why that's number one on my list and that's been sustained over yeah is every sport paid a player just now talking not just talking white four years ago we took away pay to participate hockey is one of the few sports where I'll use the term acceptable in the state with either leave a solo high school team or a co-op program because of numbers that the hockey players pay it costs so much to rent the ice time and you know I know dr.
Brill son plays in blender sup play so you know that they know the cost of up I mean just for swimming we pay twenty twenty-five thousand dollars to the YMCA every year twelve thousand five hundred per season for girls and boys so I just so it's not pay to play for swimming No is it because that hockey is just that much more expensive way more do we pay some of hockey or we just don't pay anything we pay transportation for hockey okay how many students are on the hockey team we have six six like how many kids would be on the swim team I approximate roughly boys have 30 girls how about 25 we're gonna say I was gonna say we co-op with Danbury and Bethel karate is is the de coach hired by Dan Mary and Beth look gives money and they still have to pay on top of that so the parents are paying to Danbury yes nothingjust and the Danbury kids pay and yeah everybody every kid pays the same they're also that whole programs paying correct every kid from each school pays the same so you brookfield couldn't act on its own oh no well we could we could pay for for our kids but we would pay into the organization hey so no I understand that yeah other parents on the other the communities are paying themselves and Brookville is paying it would become a major issue maybe they were moving here we'd have more hockey players so we have our own team yes that's all not the parents know that belt Oh make this Bethel pays a fee towards ice time but every kid still pays $2,000 they can all three times so that's tells you how much battle not pay to play I thought Bethel was pay to play I'm sorry his Bethel pay to play for all their sports I don't know I was I was on oppression what they were so like I think hockey players only paid like $200 so I'm like I put every sport word also he paid it was like two hours that's not the impression I have this is just a quick band-aid but is it possible for the youth programs to pay for the coaches or there's no way around that is there a way to account about that we have a policy on accepting donations but then you would have sustainability come into question that also you know I know boys youth lacrosse has approached about asking about recently about paying for another assistant I think that you know what we have to look at is for each request what are the options so if paying to play for hockey is an option for those families then would paying to play be an option for some of the other sports I didn't see why not like I said whatever way we can find to help the kid and I think that goes back to the to the the process which we have up on that last slide which is the three-year sustainability kind of piece and having it be self funded would be by parents to make sure that we can get the interest up and go in that direction I mean it's an idea and it seems to be working in some other districts so we could certainly adopt that model to that point even though philosophically I don't think any of us like pay to play four or five years ago we made sure that was one of the first that was one of my first acts was to work with the board at the time and eliminate that but for some people who might be doing that particular sport privately paying to participate within the district for part of the year might still be less than whatever they're doing now so you know I think Debbie I can tell you as a parent of a hockey player that who is on a high school co-op team not our team certainly paying for the coop team is probably 80% less than I was paying for travel so I welcome the high school opportunity it was it was a nice positive to the budget I can tell you that so I understand exactly where you're coming from so it's at that point parents probably wouldn't mind self funding to wait where you're going understood with the the goal obviously being that we can ultimately take it on our side a lot of the users would just be sort of transportation costs right it's some other programs well all the things like you said space well if you go I'll go to just go through quickly like hockey team that that's included in their psychic conditioning that's just a coach girls girls freshmen girls lacrosse that would be transportation coach umpire are officials I don't wanna wouldn't need equipment and an equipment I would ask youth lacrosse eSports I'm still looking into that I'm pretty sure that our are a lot of times our devices the kids have would be good enough to use but I'm not positive freshman boys soccer transportation officials coach uniforms would matriculate down gymnastics would be gym space travel coach uniforms would probably be treated like dance and swim they would buy their own because you can't use those for anybody else ski team was 311 dollars per athlete last year plus transportation boys volleyball would be we don't need equipment because they were just use the girls that we already have uniforms transportation and officials coach Coach coach a space that's in the spring yeah different there were okay and then middle school volleyball actually would be kind of pricey because it would have to buy a system for the gym which is about five six thousand dollars uniforms coach transportation and officials so III have break down some of estimated what everything would be at which I can share with you at any time I think they could be what system is needed for the middle school volleyball system is or its I call it it's called the volley but it's got to go into the flora Co the actual you gotta put the sleeves in the floor and in my honestly I've had a lot of inquiry on that I don't know how many teams in the state have it that's kind of why I have it that low cuz I don't know the feasibility of that for us to be honest need kids to you need other teams to play yeah yeah oh there's densive amount in the area yeah essentially went over the line New York girls voice is growing pretty quickly to just just ten years ago was non-existent in this area and now I see it over and over again yep I'm innocent Richfield bent like state champions multiple times recently they obviously are finding competition yeah what I was talking about middle school girls not boys yeah boys boys we won't have a problem yeah that's a legal test WC sports all girls we'd be all cut and so you didn't request the strength and conditioning coach for this or for the next this budget I I did I did yes Desmond's yeah it's not investment it was taken out before it got to 40 oh so it's not okay so but let's please feel free to email me at any time any questions if you have any suggestions ideas please share them like I said we're all here for the kids and whatever we can do to get everyone in these sports calling would be great thank you thank you Steve thank you that's good information thank you Steve okay do we have any other budgetary questions on line five seven three three Oh furniture and fixtures the question was well it's an almost an 84 percent increase so the question was is that due to the increased section in Central School and the answer was yes so this might be kind of a silly question but we're increasing a section we're adding a section but we're not like adding a room to the building that didn't exist before right so at one point we had 10 sections per grade level or whatever so where did the furniture and fixtures go that we used before when we had more classes per grade level when and now we're you know that's a good question how does to go somewhere yeah most of the furniture in huckleberry and in center school is quite old and when we've put stuff into storage and then we use that to replace as broken furniture breaks in subsequent years instead of buying new furniture and I asked the same question of principal abhrush I know at huckleberry what she plans on doing with the vacated classroom and the the answer is they're going to use the furniture from that classroom to replace furniture that needs to be replaced in other classrooms within that building so we don't have to go so we don't have a new furniture we don't really don't have a supply of furniture that we can use they're used for different different purposes right now there's no they might be used for you know the comedies and things like that used as a resource room that doesn't have desk might have some tables that understand thing like that but not 20 chairs and desks are okay things break and then the broken you go get the new one out of storage so Deb are you suggesting are there any desks that we can use yeah I don't know it just seems like a lot of money it seems like a big increase for adding its 84 percent but with Sanford over $15,000 $15,000 yeah yeah I mean 84 percent is a large increase because it's not that large of a budget yeah in the first place our line that's why we keep that furniture of lying down so we really don't besmirch her because we use whatever extra furniture we have so we don't have to spend the money and if we have new furniture I'm assuming it beats some cool stuff that we could move over to the new school to be hopefully whatever $50,000 combined what happened Alex can buy a new but relatively inexpensive per unit got Mary Rose supplied a very detailed list and what she would need okay so just to add on to that I always have my eye out for things that we need and if you go the high school I really Drive Marc secretary crazy because every time I go in there I'll say oh look at that chair nobody is using it what is that for and she says don't touch the chair but you know we poke we poke around in buildings before like we needed to buy some desks and chairs for adults and you know we you know shorted crews and dumpsters we look through rooms and if somebody isn't sitting down we could take their chair and throw it in our car literally we do that to go through taking furniture from one place to another we did that with our special education clerks oh yeah you should see their equipment it's beautiful but it's usable and we didn't have to buy snow stocking we even bought rust-oleum to make the rust not show decent you just painted on at night but it always breathing no we just bought that out of our own money and we did it at night you know so people wouldn't it's no way we'd do creative things okay any other budget questions put this to rest tonight okay we've got work to do so we can move on to the new school building project so we've had a couple of meetings in the within the last week actually and so the biggest sort of happenings with that project right now are that originally the schematic design phase was supposed to end mid-december tacked on is has taken a bit longer to finish up that phase trying to incorporate all the ideas from the public forums but also we had an increase in our enrollment as you know post bond so the design has changed a little bit so at the last public forum we had talked about because this enrollment adding 10 classrooms to each grade level that changed the square footage the envelope and it started to sort of encroach on some of those really vital shared spaces like the gym and cafeteria and everything so the design I'll pass this around I'll just show you me so I could pass it that way what you'll see on the first floor is sort of like a dashed outline most of the wings kindergarten will keep at ten classrooms but the other wings will have mostly nine classrooms we wouldn't be able to get ten essentially but we do have optional spaces for future builds for those additional classrooms yep that one and that one here so I can pass them in this way so you can see what I'm talking about it's those spaces so you see about half the wings have ten classrooms and the other half have nine and so that swing space depending on so we don't we what we don't want to do with the constraints of working with the state square footage reimbursement and those kind of things the MBC working directly with Tecton thought it was a little bit more of a creative way to look at our projections and when we need ten classrooms will have them integrate and if the next year that particular grade doesn't need ten classrooms that leaves an open classroom and then the lower or the grade ahead can come and use that as the extra swing space I mean that's really the concept behind it so rather than adding we have we had sixth grade so adding 12 classrooms to the eighth per wing sixth grades in total we're essentially adding about six yeah so overall we're still if you consider it from the original design we're still up I think five classrooms yeah so we still have more classrooms than we had originally thought of but the only way sort of to get there was to either reduce scope or increase budget so I think this is sort of you know the best well and it works with our projections if that's the case that was gonna be my question to the class site would we still with this classroom configuration as we have the projections today will have to be flexible on a certain class yeah but with the structure we fits the projections within the class size guidelines oh yeah we kept everything you know we'd use the 18 to 20 rule on those classrooms I understand but you had total enrollments by grade over 20 years if I remember um long long outlook yeah it was a tenure if you simulated them that's what we said me to keep up with and every year we keep within the class size and the other thing that that Rose was talking about that was the dotted lines was a really interesting ideas while you're building a new school one of the most expensive things when we talked about originally that we would have areas off the wings where we could add classrooms should we need them in the future to make it easier to add classrooms one of the proposals in the design development is to while we're digging up the site excavating the site that's the proper word we building in on a couple of the wings in the back foundation or new classrooms and that's not just for one it would be the foundation for the stackable so you would have to I think that's really a great move because that's then it's built you're not disturbing and then you're not dragging excavation equipment back there and everything else which is quite expensive as well as disruptive and then you could just start with a build and it would be a lot less expensive so built in build the foundation work into the cost now and then we really have a sudden spike or we know a gradual spike coming we can accommodate that it's the dotted line space the dotted lines are those where we put foundations over crackers yep it does not know yep because if you I don't know if you got a chance to see it but they're all there on the end of each neighborhood so it would really sort of be like in addition to as of the last public forum we had those as actual classrooms sort of in the schematic that's what we essentially had to lose so what's the schedule of their own now um probably mid-january and schematic design once that is will get the final approval and before it goes any further into design development so we still do have to approve that in January so what would happen there is one of the thoughts that our executive team meeting was having maybe utilizing one of our board of education meetings where we could invite the Board of Selectmen and Board of Finance or vice versa of one of their meetings and they can invite the Board of Ed to hear one presentation from tacked on to all three boards because all three boards need to approve the design including the MVC obviously so getting us all together as one community team to hear the same presentation ask the questions and that kind of thing and have not only Tecton there but our folks from the NBC who are focused on this project at this point along with us what well we're thinking by the end of January so maybe our second meeting in January we would be able to make that decision approving that the only the only issue with that is that I think the MVC meets the night before we do so it would be at our second meeting of the month but that's also when we will maybe adopt the budget if we don't have a special meeting for that so it could be a hefty sort of heavy meeting it's gonna be a next busy next coat you know we know that with the budget anyway there's a lot on our plate my observation is that once we get into February the Board of Selectmen is very busy on the budget themselves it eases for us a little bit but we'll have the big group meeting that we have and by the time we get into March the Board of Finance is just up to their wazoo and in meetings so we just have to we ought to be proactive on selecting the meeting time and I would suggest a special meeting okay all right and not try to do that and budget meeting at excellence because it'll be a special meeting for the other two boards any chance make it special for all could be a very special evening together it'll be a very special Rosa can I add the other really good news I know I emailed the it's important for the public so a big part of a project like this is state reimbursement and we had anticipated a net of about fourteen point eight to fifteen million dollar reimbursement the state has looked at their calculations in looking at our plan thus far and what's eligible for reimbursement what's not eligible and they publicized the figure of sixteen point seven million dollars in reimbursement for us so we're in a really good position what that doesn't necessarily mean is that we could spend more money on the project that isn't what it means so everybody needs to know they'd be premature to go in that direction and it also would be premature to say oh well John it's it's almost two million dollars more so that in in reimbursement so could we bond almost two million dollars less again premature we have to let this play out the state as we see through our own local process with two thousand six hundred and fifty students the level of bureaucracy we have to work with when you're working with the state and millions and millions of dollars and a major construction project there's a lot of bureaucracy there's a lot of time but we're in an incredible position to be very candid with everybody here and it's just exciting because there's a lot of effort to get to this point and to be at a point where by the end of January we are likely voting all together as a community on what this school is gonna really start to come together and look like I mean talk about a labor of love who's been working on this quite a long time well could I ask a couple of questions I think I know the answer so they may be leading questions but where is that 16.7 in the approval process the formal approval process happens during the legislative budget process in the spring so while we are it's a publicized were a prime priority a it's approved by the office of school construction sexually gotten through the office of those guys and they've made a recommendation to the governor they made a recommendation to the governor I left that out thank you Bob Thank You great and when where are we ranked on that list I'm right at the top so there you go all right I thought those questions the answer those were when I saw that letter and I said not only are we approved by the staff to write what to make a recommendation to the governor not only is the dollar amount of reimbursement higher than we had recommended that we had anticipated and we were on number one on the list for the state and they went through I want to say they were 1015 projects yes not list yes and I think a four or five new school projects oh yeah and we were number one of yeah new school project right so that's that was great to see yes very good news thanks for asking thought I knew the answer so any other questions on the new school project okay so that just leaves us with three main points right so we started doing three main points last year as sort of a way to our minutes are publicized but they often don't they leave out a lot of the juicy details so we started doing through main points as we collectively sort of decide what were the three main takeaways of our meeting where we can embellish a little bit on the detail and you know sort of inform the public on you know what's really going on and I think to give Rosa Bob and Deb credit that came out of the policy and communications subcommittee which Mike and Amy are on we didn't even talk about that tonight at our meeting before this may be perfect yes exactly and they say go to a minute 16 whatever and they can just watch that discussion of yourself that's good well I want to put policy number 32 [Laughter] [Music] so if you have any ideas Mike and Amy you can feel free to shout them out yeah that's a big deal what I think it's worthy other than those pens of everybody wants I mean interesting because the the budget is the big thing we talked about timewise but it's a step in the process I actually think the athletic reason stood out do you want to mention the update on the superintendent's update on the number of snow days that the last day of school is currently jalisa calendar and that the calendar for next year has been approved yeah that's a nice combination yeah that's a good idea sounds good didn't-didn't go from a Friday till Monday well no because Christmas Eve is aa year next year the current year current year with Christmas Eve on Tuesday the 24th the 23rd we didn't change that that was already off last year decided for this year was already off so this Friday the 20th is a full day of school okay yeah yeah so let's loop all the counter stuff and let a presentati0n smudger 23rd through Wednesday January 1st Center elementary school has a community meeting and the holiday winter pajama day this Friday December 20th huckleberry hill has student council spirit day pajama day this Friday December 20th also and the next PTO meeting is Friday January 3rd at 9:30 oh these events are from December 19th January 8th whiskey near has the middle of a leadership concert conference at Sacred Heart for seventh and eighth grade members of student council and peer counseling that's Friday January 3rd and the winter chorus concert is Thursday January 9th 7 o'clock at the high school auditorium and for Brookfield High School the band and winter chorus concert is tomorrow Thursday 19th in the auditorium at 7 o'clock that's rescheduled from last yesterday due to the weather and also this Thursday morning is coffee with principal Belinda from 7:30 to 8:30 a.m.
and there's a grad party meeting on Monday January 6th in the cafeteria at 7 p.m. that's it thank you do you have to say one thing that whiskey near did have a pajama day and I saw mr. Renda in an abominable snowman onesie and I've been changed in a deep and profound 'we see that you cannot unsee that debbie how come that wasn't on instagram it's on my twitter check out check your Twitter it's there all right is there anything else all right so wish everybody a happy and safe holiday break and we will see you in the new year thank you all right without objection meeting adjourned thank you [Music]