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And it just like the sped example where this may or may not be happening with certain case loads because of the supervisor or whoever it is that's upholding that. That's the same case here. This may or may not be happening. And that is the problem. And we can't just rely on leadership deciding to implement something or not. We need to have these things written down so that they can be followed and we make sure that it is consistent across all of our schools. And that is what makes this body so influential and important is that we're looking at what's working on all the sites and then making sure that we can implement that as best as we can across the board. And uh this is going on. It's actually increasing by.5 our class size at least for the kindergarten one and even more the grades beyond.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
Um and I think just like we're going to give explanation and caveats for where we came up with these recommendations to the board, we will do that with this one as well. And I think that we have plenty of research and legs to stand on to say why this is beneficial to the students in the classroom and therefore the goals that we are all trying to achieve. Okay. Um Amy, we'll do Amy, James, and then Ivon and then we're going to move on. So So I walked in a little bit late on this. Um I had to come from another meeting. Um, so, um, I I've been hearing the conversation and strategic is my love language. Um, so I mean, literally we had to do Strength Binders. It's number one for me. Um, oftentimes drives district crazy because I'm like, have you thought about? But anyways, um, I digress.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
I want to bring it back to um, there was a comment about professional development. One of our options was directly aligned to professional development when we were talking about the Friday, which I would absolutely love to be able to do and I know teachers would absolutely love to do it. We we just don't have the financial capability to do it. Um I would love to be able to cap all of our caps our class sizes. Um I just want us to be a little bit cautious and when I say this is there is never in my 20 plus years in education has a class size ever come at 27.5. 27.5 is our ratio. Thank you. 27.5 is a ratio. It's always like how can you do this or what can you do? And um I think like and I know different administrators handle things differently at at different sites.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
Um and so I and I know for example at my school I had which it would technically fall into this ratio. I was begging Joel for two teachers and I got one. Um which is what we could afford and what we could do. And so we had to be pretty strategic and we had to come up with different options and my teachers came up with different options than what I was pl what I in my mind was going to do and we went with what they said because I was like that's a great idea and I was thinking that I needed to make a multi-age three four class and my fourth grade teacher said no third grade super important it's move on when reading we between the two of us we have like 40 plus years of experience we can handle large class sizes give these new teachers small classrooms um So, I just don't want to tie our hands when it comes to the creativity like of our teachers when they're problem solving.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
I just don't want to to to lock us in. That's my only concern. And I honestly don't know if I'm one way or another on these numbers. I really really don't. Um I've had large classes sizes as a teacher. I had 29 in kindergarten in my second year of teaching. Um I had 38 in second grade one year. Um, and that was when it was we had the 4-hour model and so I had um 38 kids. That was that was bonkers year. But anyways, I I know what it's like to have large sizes, but if I correct me if I'm wrong and I could be incorrect on these ratios, but in order to have class sizes affect like student outcomes, they really have to be at 15 to1. Is that correct? All the research I swear that's the number. Yes. The smaller the better, right?
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
And so yes, there is a big difference between 25 students and 26 students in a classroom or 28 students and 32. Um, but nothing comes in like this perfect package. And so I just don't want us to stop the the creativity around problem solving these because no grade level is the same and the experience is not the same and I just don't want us to stifle that creativity. So, I just want I just don't want to lock us in. That's what that's why I'm just saying I I just want to put that out there because I know that there is different problem solving capabilities at at different schools and what people are capable of of. And it's honestly also dependent on the grade level of, you know, do these teachers have more experience versus these teachers or do I have all new teachers between these two grade levels?
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
It allows for that though because it says but not limited to and it says may it and and I was this is I'm sorry to break the stack but at the back at the bottom it says the only thing that's required by administration is to provide written communication to teachers of any pro probable possible solutions within 10 days everything else is optional can I sorry can um I think maybe that is where I didn't do any written communication as a principal it was a conversation that we had as a problem solving with 20 different people So this is just saying that once you came up to that that outcome that you came up with even though it was their outcome that every teacher that would have been affected would have been notified as to what the outcome was. Can we shift it to notified then?
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
That's what it says. I thought it said written communication. Yeah, that's that is notification. Written notification. It's like a PWN instead of just telling you what happened. But this is but what I'm saying is we had a verbal communication with all parties that were affected in a meeting. So then to do a follow-up is just an extra step. happen as an administrator. I honestly wouldn't think of that. So that's why I'm saying can we just notified like written slashnotify like it doesn't does it that just seems like an extra step when that problem is already solved. Um James um so my love language is the power of wheat. I believe in the power of wheat. Um, I would agree there's there I mean in fairness there's not a lot of teeth to this um in terms of like cap sizes, but nobody's going to convince me the class sizes don't matter because they do.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
Um, uh, I I have a suggestion, just a suggestion. Um, and my suggestion is because when I look at this from an administrative standpoint, uh, to me this is a process thing. Um, it's not really a I I don't really see it as a recommendation. I see it as a process thing. Yes, it is a recommendation but not not what I typically see. Um, so my suggestion would be because my understanding is you meet with the superintendent on a regular basis, right? Um, so my suggestion would be that this goes because really the the person that is going to say you must is the superintendent, right? So if there's a leader at a site that is not following this, take it to the superintendent and then if it's not something that's followed up on, then next year when you come back, you can say, "Hey, uh, this is continuing to go on.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
We've gone through these steps. We've talked with this with a superintendent." uh because I feel like if you if you develop it from the from the Wii point where you're working together and trying to go and make that because they're right, you know, these these should be things that happen districtwide. They should be. Um and if you got some creative things as well, even better. Uh but um I think that the argument would have a lot more weight if you come back next year and said, "Well, we tried to do it this way. We had those conversations. There was no followup. these people are still doing it. They're not listening to the superintendent or the super and I I I can't imagine somebody not listening to the superintendent, but um it's not happening. It's not going forward now. We need to go through and put this on um um as a as a recommendation.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
James, wait, can I ask you a question? Yeah. Are you suggesting that we should instead of putting this in our bargaining agreement and trying to resolve it at the lowest possible level that we should first ask people to personally appeal to the superintendent when their administrator is not to have your leadership go and talk with the superintendent and say this is not happening at this site. Can you do something about it and have this there as a document? Because honestly, we've been doing this for years. I'm sorry. We've been doing this for years. Like that's that's what this is. We've done all of those things and we've arrived here at Me and Confer because that that is what has been happening for years. So you're saying that there I mean what's not I guess I'm confused. What's not happening? There are teachers sitting at 31 32 kids which is would violate this um mass of 28 times.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
So I get that but I mean in fairness all they have to do is send an email or a notification saying it's not happening. Well, it's important James it's important then that the principal can send an email that says we have investigated these solutions and for these reasons we cannot implement them and it might be the case that there is no possible solution but that is very different from sometimes there's a class of that and you know going oh well you know so and so is a first year teacher so I don't know sucks you get all those kids right or oh well because of this other reason or because you know this or oh that kid's not too bad there are lots of reasons that I think are very casual and would not look good in in an email that people use for sticking teachers with a lot of extra kids and it's important that teachers understand here are the steps that we've gone through to try and solve this problem and we've arrived at no possible solution that's very different from uh nothing we can do about that sorry and no requirement for explanation no requirement for so but what do you what do you hope to accomplish though because I mean all I it give teachers a mechanism on their own without having to appeal to the superintendent without having to harass anybody to say, "Oh, my professional agreement says these are should be my numbers.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
I'm over my numbers. Can you investigate some solutions in working this?" And the principal would be able to go, "Oh, okay. I will." And follow up with them. And so that they have some written record of, "Oh, there's this issue. I tried to solve it. My principal tried to solve it and we've arrived at nothing." And that's okay. That's different from I brought it up and I was ignored, which currently is means that you have to do it. It's just like there's something there to follow, to try and and if it and if it can work, great. If not, it's there. You tried. It's this is not saying you have to do it. Yeah. I guess because right now, if I go to my principal and I say, I'm over my no. Well, I don't even have a number to be over, but you know, I have, hey, I have too many kids in my class.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
They can go, yeah, teaching's hard. Bye. And then what is what is my recourse? I mean, what this I I I it's an option out there to look at, I think, is is what it is. It's not I don't disagree with what you're saying. I'm just saying at the end of the day, it's just going to be an email. I mean, that's perfect. What do you That's all we want. Communication, but it was something written communication. I I guess that's what my concern with saying notice just simply notice is that's what often happens. It's in passing. It's verbal. It's oh nope, sorry. We can't do anything about it. Whereas this provides a mechanism for written documentation that says yes, we pursued this. We attempted to problem solve this situation with the people who were directly impacted and this was what we came up with. This is problemolving with your staff.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
It's an it's just I my interpretation when this came to be was it was just something if there's an issue that you can look at and it's a guide. It's a guide really and there's no and there's no guide out there and I think that's the issue. We're only going to spend because if we look at the clock it's 2 o'clock. We're going to spend maybe two minutes. We'll go through Ivonne and keep your comments. I hate to do this guys and gals. Keep your comments precise. Okay. Yes, class sizes matters, teacher efficacy matters, time matters and there's a lot of resources for that. Uh my concern is not just only the communication here that I'm I'm okay hiring the par profofessional even if it says budget capacity I understand that the caps of the class sizes I'm I'm an easy why because we're are declining enrollment and we have the data for this year in which there's only specific cases in which some classes are way over and there's a reasonable explanation of why.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
Okay. Next. Ann did were Ann, were you finished? Okay. Um, Ariel, you don't know how to spell my name, Joel? I just got just got I was just messing with you. I had to ask. Um, but also um does a solution could be at Oh, AW. There we go. Uh, a solution. So you from way this is worded doesn't really say you have to hire a parah and you can just be okay at those busy transitioning when you're getting the kids ready for recess a per will come in 10 minutes before and that can be a solution to the big class sizes but also I just see this I feel like a lot of emotions teacher emotions a lot of frustration can simply be dealt with if administration acknowledge there's a problem. So going to a teacher and be like, you know what, I've noticed that you have a really big class size.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
I've noticed that and these are some things I've thought about to help you and thinking about budgeting everything else. Just kind of acknowledging what's on the teacher's plate and just let the teacher know that you thought about it. doesn't necessarily you have to do something grand but just a CD is a way of just acknowledging what teachers are going through. Okay. No, not across the board. No, we get complaints all the time. So, it's a guide. I guess it would be a guide to the administrator to go to. Um, is that it, Ariel? Thank you. Um, Amy and we're going to keep it very um Yeah, I'll be brief. I think the only sticking point really for me is like the the written communication. And it's not that I don't want to provide it, but quite frankly, there's a billion and one things going on and sometimes I forget.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
I had a big meeting with my staff. I didn't do the writing, but we all sat down and have an agreement. It feels like it's one more thing to do. Um, and I also don't want to add more to teachers plates. I don't want to add more to administrator's plates in terms of well, you even though we sat down and do this meeting, you didn't provide written communication. So therefore, I have a grievance. It wasn't because I didn't want to. It was I didn't even think about it because everyone present was there already notified. Are we okay with adding a word that says written or verbal? That changes the option. Yeah. Yeah. We're not changing the option. And also have to make it a practice, right? Just like anything else. And Kelly, well, if that happens, you resolve the grievance by writing an email that that would that would resolve the grievance.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
There's no like monetary punishment for a grievance. It just kind of feels like and I've I've got you. And well then why would but why would your teachers if you come to them and work through this entire process them why would they then chase down a grievance and write a gotcha agreements if you have done this creative process right this is for principles leaders that do not do that that are just like oh well I'm going to respectfully disagree but I'm not going to go into detail about that and and I'm not going to say it has anything to do with my staff that I'm working with this year. Okay I think we've devoted enough time to this specific one. Um, let's go ahead and do a vote and see um what happens um with this one. Do I need to move? So, I need someone to make a motion.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above
I motion that we vote on approving this class size recommendation. Okay, let's go ahead and see a vote. Okay. So, we have Ivon. Could you three live with it? And you're and I again, five minutes max, guys. We're moving on. I just I like I at this point I feel like Ivonne said it better than I did, but like why would we waste a recommendation on something that should be happening? And also if if we're worried about um my comments about being strategic and bringing things to the board, then maybe we don't do the 2% raise and we focus on things like class size and maybe like the ELD weighted thing and like things like that. Maybe we go back to that. If we go back to things like that, then then it we don't need to spend the rest of the afternoon preparing a presentation because it's already aligned.
⚗ AI-reconstructed · cite from original above