Well, simple. I know exactly. I think it's better as a form. I think it's better as a form if we're not talking about actual use. I think that's the form. Yeah. And it emphasizes the aspiration, not that it's a specific. Yeah, exactly. Um, is there an intention to keep the illustrations or we're striking those as well? Top of 113, 114, and 115. Are they all gone? Oh, 14. But that 103 is gone, right? Yeah. 103 doesn't represent what we've done. Oh, that's great. Yes. Great. And so now we're going to 113 and oh yeah I 13 14 15 those are all gone. I assumed 13 was gone. I don't personally I think 14 and 15 actually illustrate what we're talking about much better than any of the other illustrations in here. But so I don't know. Do do you feel like they should be lost?
I presume they're gone because we're not putting those restrictions on those hub districts. you had a so the commercial shopping center and the research park don't have any they're not referenced anywhere in the plan. So we're getting rid of this whole spread. Yeah. Like 115 is just we're getting rid of the whole spread not just the graphic. Well because it's the whole premise is on the different character hub areas which the planning question is has struck. So I don't So what page numbers are in this? 114 115. Okay. Is the planning commission in agreement on that? Am I I think so. I mean I read that second paragraph starting at however redeveloping these areas presents challenge like that that just like none of this stuff like I mean I like it's true but I don't know what it's actually saying about the plan itself. Right.
There's no real substance. It's like it it's it's almost like a paragraph that just says words. So proud of you. You're going to get this under 100 pages yet. Yeah. Um so yeah, I'm the I'm the one with the machete over here. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. It doesn't provide actually any guidance. It just says it's just it's just like hey, I know we'll need we'll need strategies. Yeah. Yeah. It just like it doesn't have any kind of real guidance. So I I would strike 115 it in its entirety. And 14. Yeah. I thought that was already gone. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. There's something that I hesitate to raise and you probably would like me to really hesitate, but it is a it is a tick. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm kidding. On um and 112. So, the reasoning statements there is strong support I'm I'm back on 110, but I'm not I'm just illustrating that there's a parallel.
There's a strong support for higher density development blah blah blah. However, some residents have expressed concerns about noise overcrowding and traffic and then hug their strong support for blah blah blah, though concerns remain about affordability and environmental impact. To me, this is a place where there's a gesture at a problem of tradeoffs, but it is just sort of presented in a descriptive way like there's this and there's that. And one of the things that we talked a lot about in the early phases of warming up for the Kaka plan was we talked about how the plan has to help us make some decide about making some trade-offs on these things. And so I don't know if the hub district because it's meant to be a high density district were saying, "Yeah, this is where we're going to get a little bit more impermeable service." And there might be concerns about that, but that's a trade-off we make to say here's where density is really [Music] appropriate, you know, or I don't know, or maybe you don't want to confront that head-on, but I think that if if the plan doesn't articulate something about we can't have every goal we all the time, everywhere, right?
We can't have everything meet all of the boxes that we care about. I think the plan should say that because otherwise we'll have to keep saying that. We can look at adding some additional Yeah. Emphasizing that. I mean, I think everybody understands the most important thing is ease of planning staff and early bedtimes. Yeah, it's getting late for sure. I will throw out that on page 113 we also say mixeduse storefronts which may be more appropriate in the hub but we may just want mixed use buildings mixed use buildings. Yeah, good catch. Page 113 uses modern mixed use strike apartment. This this is more of a clerical suggestion. Oh, there's both mixeduse storefronts and mixeduse apartment buildings. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just mixeduse buildings. and probably yeah and probably just broaden the residential definition. It could be stack flats or a lot of different things.
Um this is just a clerical suggestion. Um I'm in favor of like just reducing wordiness throughout. Um so when you have intent, David, what is the reasoning behind it and aspects to consider? You could just use rationale and considerations, right? Just just try to keep it as simple as possible. Just makes it a little bit more accessible as opposed to really just having like eight words. Yeah, I think simple but also like intent reasoning aspects to consider like splitting up some of those paragraphs would be helpful. Yep. Just Yeah. Um brevity combine reduce a bit. So um anything else on the hub district? So so far kind of what I've seen is uh graphic alterations on 113 and the redaction of 114 and 115. Correct. Correct. Cool. All right. Flex is gone. Okay. 116 117 is 118. So I think this is just in reference to those three other categories that are on the future land use map that aren't actually zoning, but they're parks, public land, and University of Michigan.
So, I think it's just a reference to these add, you know, character to our communities, but there's not as much there because we're not actually zoning for them. Yeah. And if we wanted to do anything, we could point to the parks plan here, the University of Michigan's uh development plan, and then the school district. Yeah. Their strategic plan for their building. So, I think those three things in there sort of help um sort of anchor them and then I think we're done for implementation. Okay, you guys ready to tackle? Okay, I got I got one final quick one for you. This I swear this will be 20 seconds. We'll see. We'll see. I'm gonna cut this. Oh, page 48. U way back there's a multifamily target reference. I think it's rental in the original data. It's just a correction. So references forgot Michigan housing plan from multifamily targets.
I actually had removed that, didn't we? I we talked about the data. I don't I checked the correction log and I didn't see anything. I just wanted to make sure it got flagged. this last bullet point here on the left column that goes onto the second column where like the the housing plan the Michigan housing plan it's rental and owner occupied units I think in the data it just needs to be checked um so the footnote five I think it's saying in the Michigan housing plan it's rental there is no single family home targets in that data. It's all rental. Yeah, that's it. That's all I got. I'm glad you brought up that page. Well, I I just want to ask if it makes sense. There's a lot of concern going around that we don't have population projections to justify any sort of housing targets or I mean is there any way to just cut some of this stuff so that we aren't arguing about it because it doesn't really make sense for us to say I mean there had been slides and presentations about you know this many people and blah blah blah and people unless we can clarify that they're capacity estimates and nobody you know nobody makes a target of how many people you know how do you even fulfill that and how would you make the judgment about how many is correct and so they're asking us to justify with hard data something that I don't even think we should be promising well I I think of it is the sak data is is based on history in a lot of ways they put together projections for the region and they distributed amongst a lot of communities us included and that's where sort of our projections come from I would encourage the commission and the public to think this is a place where we have the opportunity to figure out how how we want to try to influence that trajectory, right?
And so this plan, I think, is pushing it to say, could we make land use decisions that might push that trajectory upward? Now, is that going to drastically change it? I I don't know honestly, but it has the potential to increase it or that might be manifest by just increased growth or it might be us realizing frankly a larger share of the region's growth than we might otherwise. Yeah, I totally agree. I just we got to get to public comments still. So, let's wrap this up. Thank you. It's just that it's been there's a lot of pressure around there not being a a basis in data and I do not know how to respond to the I I that is one of my responses is that the data assumes a limit you know it's artificially limited right so I but okay maybe this isn't it's just that you know the opposition there's a lot of opposition I'm going to convey made to our project team a lot of edits that we talked about here.
We're going to share a lot of the edits that we didn't talk about there. Um, we are going to do our best to filter it and um, I hope that you feel the gumption to critique me um, to the greatest extent possible when you see that second draft as to whether or not I did a good job in um, navigating all the conversations and feedback that we've had so far. This is just the next draft. So, um, so thank you. You have all put a lot of work into it and I'm excited to get to this next step. Thank you. Sounds like a very small task. I'm sure you'll dispatch it in a weekend. Yep. Okay. Thank you everybody. Okay, so we're going to conclude other business. We're going to head on to the last item of the agenda, which is public comment.
This is a second opportunity for individuals to speak up to three minutes on any issue. We'll first hear from those present, then remote participants. To speak remotely, please press star 9 if on the phone or use the raise hand feature in Zoom. For phone access, please call 877-853-5247 and enter meeting ID 977-66341226. City staff will identify callers by the last three digits of the phone number or by name on Zoom if available. You'll hear an automated announcement when it's your turn to speak. And please ensure you're in a quiet area and mute any background noise. For all participants, please state your name and address at the beginning of your comments. Mr. Westfall. Thank you. Not to belver the night any longer, but I uh couldn't resist. Um, thanks for a great discussion, Kirk Westfall, 3505 charter place. I forgot to say that at the top.
Um, I think uh uh allowing the flexibility to go to highrises in the transition district is huge and that's going to be um a lot of where the housing will go. Um, I hope that that wasn't taken to mean that it could only rise up to hub. There are large blobs of transition right now like in lower town without a hub. Um, which should be allowed to uh get h, you know, much taller in the middle of it when it's not next to lowrise. So, just that small clarification. Um, I hope that's a subject of further debate. um ground floor commercial. Uh, you know, I I support um managing externalities like um I've I've always been a fan of legislating active uses on certain shopping streets downtown. There was a debate about this 15 18 years ago. Um and city council ultimately declined to take it up.
Um, but I think enforcing actual active ground floor commercial like stores, restaurants, that kind of thing, in other words, not banks and offices is important to do on in a very limited basis where we have shopping districts that are sort of our economic engine. Um, I think appropriately you guys decided to do that in TC1 on major corners, although it just frames it as non-residential, so it doesn't even have to be commercial, which I think should be also cleaned up. But I I appreciate the discussion that you don't want to enforce it on, you know, long stretches of of transition. Um, I may have missed this in the packet. I I hope there's more discussion about the map. Uh I um there are places that are now multifamily like where I used to live in Gettys Lake which unless this has been changed it still is showing as lowrise and I think it would be um there would be a huge opportunity cost for you know if that ever redeveloped or some of these older apartment communities redeveloped that they had to be low-rise that that would be um I I hope that's considered uh in the next cleanup.
obsession. What else? Um, yeah, I'm still a little unclear on Hub. Um, like Fifth and Madison, I think Hub is going pretty far down south of William and that's labeled Hub, but Beakman is not Hub. So, I'm a little unclear on that and I just, you know, would love to get clarification or eliminating that distinction. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Do we have anyone else present that would like to speak at this time? Good night. Thank you. Do we have any remote callers, Mr. Leonard? We do.
Jurka Lattis, you have three minutes to address the planning commission. Good evening. This is Jerus calling from the first ward. Um, I'd just like to repeat my question from earlier this evening since apparently a portion of the audience found my comment so objectionable that they felt the need to drown it out. Uh, I think the central question we should all be asking ourselves as part of this process is what is the minimum acceptable amount of land that someone should be required to pay for in order to have the privilege of being our neighbor? And then let's ask ourselves if the answer changes based on whether we're only talking about people or also implicitly including space for cars. because many parcels in this city currently have more impervious area devoted to driveways and garages and parking lots than to buildings for actual people. And that's totally fine.
I think if f folks want to own driveways and large lawns, I haven't heard anyone proposing to take that away. But consider the flip side. Should people who want smaller pieces of land not have that option? Or maybe are we saying that they're only allowed to live along dangerous multi-lane roads? I think this is the one question that most directly gets at the heart of the issue and should be the central focus when it's time to write the new zoning ordinance. Thank you again for all that you do. Thank you. No other hands are raised. Chair Lee, thank you very much. With that, we're going to close public comment. We are going to move to the last item which is adjournmented. Moved by Commissioner Mill, seconded by council member Dish. All those in favor say I. I.
What's the weather? You know how it is. [Music] Press the web again. When the beat [Music] Heat. Heat. I lied. I victory on me. Yes, the view. Yeah, it is really something. [Music] in a [Music] past change. [Music] No, you're talking about two Good evening. Welcome everyone. We are so excited that you are here to celebrate the Discovery Canyon Campus High School graduating class of 2025. [Applause] Please rise as we welcome our 2025 graduates. [Music] Yeah. Heat. [Music] Hallelujah. Heat. [Applause] [Music] Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. [Music] Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. I'll give you [Music] Done. Heat. [Applause] Thank you band. Please remain standing if you are able to honor those who have served our country for day. For today's special occasion, graduates are welcome to leave their caps on this evening. The colors are presented by the Academy School District 20 Air Force JROTC color guard.
Andrea. [Music] All right. Ready? Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Turn around. [Music] [Applause] [Music] Are you guys ready? [Music] Are you okay? [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Oh, hey. [Music] Lou. Hey. Hey. [Music] Hey, good afternoon. If you would kindly take your seats, we will begin in five minutes. And our students are coming down every aisle, so we need the aisles clear. We'll begin in five minutes. Thank you. right next to it. That's a good one. Surprise, surprise. I guess. [Music] again. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. [Music] Hello. [Music] Hello. Heat. Heat. There's something about him that makes a girl want to take him in her arms. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] All [Music] right. Heat. Heat. [Music] Data. Down. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music] Ladies and gentlemen, if you could please remove yourself from the aisles if you are standing in an aisle.
How are you? Good. How are you? Good. Wait, wait. It Water. Oh yeah. I got hit twice. during the game. Yesterday All I know is sharp. She lo like I'm good at Long Island. That's what I take. slightly above going down. We're like on the green. We got to go out. All right. Hallelujah. All right. Stand. Is this in your way at all? No. Okay. It doesn't matter. I just I didn't check Thank you. Good evening. My name is Samantha Noble and I'm a member of the Euing High School chapter of NHS. Please stand as we welcome the current members and 2025 inductees of the National Honors Society. [Music] Here we go.
[Applause] She really deserves all the credit. And I also want to recognize the parents here. I saw Miss Sutton over here and I saw Tyler and Iman. The Guthri, the Garens. Hey, got to get used to saying that. the duckies in the gar right there. Deputy Garren's always here when we needed. Thank you, deputy, for all help and still safe. Uh, Mr. Morales, she's always here helping with the classroom with a smile whether it's kindergarten or high school, ELA or culinary arts. Uh, Mr. Maldades, who are you, Mr. Maldades? He's always here, always very, very supportive. And the are right here. Good to see all of you. Um, but really These are the showstoppers, right? They're the heartbreakers. They're the showstoppers and they're right over here. Class of 2042, you're going to learn from Miss Adam Cohen. 2030 is when you graduate high school. But parents, let's also recognize when they're going to graduate college.