>> Aye. >> Thank you. >> I'm sorry. >> Don Runner. Excuse me. I'm so sorry. So sorry. [laughter] I had a I had a majority. I was good. >> [laughter] >> And for just a note for the public the only action the board will be taking when we come out of closed session is to adjourn. All right, let's take a short break.
I think I think uh >> I got it. >> Awesome. So I just want you to read read it by yourselves and then I want you to kind of go through not kind of I do want you to go through the discussion questions. Maybe zero in on one or two. Uh but enjoy time reading this case study completely make believe not associated with you or anybody in the area but enjoy reading the the the case study and then we'll come back to it. We give you about 8 minutes. without. This one. Just to be clear, I'm answering these questions, but everybody else is partnering up, right? >> Correct. Yeah, just this one. Just one by yourself, Katie. >> Okay. Okay. Question. I see. strategies that they can um figure out. Yeah, the first part it's frame doesn't drive. >> Well, now you have no way to measure.
>> It's more about the implementation. >> Yeah. versus the framework itself. >> Okay. >> Sorry. >> I didn't want to rush you. >> No, I interpreted. >> My eye is still >> obvious. >> No, it's fine. I just have to take it's showing but in reality it was not when something I'd always say that there's >> annoying >> um so commitment to governance framework should the board remain committed to governance framework why or not >> um number three managing boards >> for me I still think >> because right now it sounds like the board >> member and As a educator, >> I think everyone being like on the same goal page >> I just see it as >> I would say >> as something like I wish was happening in our district >> because I think it keeps people like really attuned to >> the needs >> and everybody on the same page, right?
Everybody's not like doing their own thing. >> Yeah. So that's just how I feel about that one. >> Yeah. And I think the issue is probably less with the framework than with like do you have the right inputs and are they being implemented fidelity? Like I saw all over that case study that fidelity is the problem. I can tell you from our experience here in Kraton, the reason you see significant differences between sites is because >> I can tell you you don't even have to ask me where the greatest fidelity is because you'll see it reflected. >> So that was probably like one of my questions. Yeah, I think with >> with a one and I and I debated whether or not asking it. >> Maybe they need to be called out. I don't I don't really know. I think maybe next year we're in that place because I think it's been a journey for everybody.
One of the things I was telling Sophia the other day that >> like here I don't know their story but for us we talk about being in year three. We set goals in May of year one. >> Yeah. >> We set guard rails in September of year two. We set inter measures in December of year two. Right. So I'm not making excuses. We've tried to hold ourselves accountable. I feel like this is the first year that we've really got the data. >> I totally understand. >> So, you know, it's like yes, are we a little off track in some places? Absolutely. Are we getting >> better? >> Yeah. But then that means it's okay for the other person >> like functioning under the SOFG and improving things like progress monitor >> inputs and outputs. Absolutely. So you know are we going to make the fiveyear goals I still think we have a fighting chance but but if we got >> if we got if we nailed two of them and got improved on the other three then I would feel like couldn't have gotten there without and we fundamentally really did it in three years, not five.
You know what I mean? So, but but at the same time, I'd rather hold our feet to the fire >> and be accountable to it. So, >> there no I think it's we'll take a look at it. So >> if it's not appropriate like like I hesitated but it's really just >> no they were so much >> I mean >> their leadership >> is probably not the best question. So yeah >> feel free to take off. Well, we I'll I'll let them know to have that information because I don't know that this moment is the moment they're Did the mics get turned off? >> Oh, okay. Cool. >> Sounds like it did for a minute. says >> and Katie said, >> right? >> Katie Katie. >> I mean partial success. >> I mean um and we know that change takes a long time. >> Need for adjustment.
I I mean >> we adjusted some with the numbers, but I'm not saying that they need like goals or anything. I just it's just going to take longer. >> Well, I think I think part of what sometimes needs to be adjusted is >> what you may shift like how you approach them or the amount of resources you put into them, the exp What additional information would help the board make a more informed decision? >> So there was an indicator in the thing about how even though you weren't seeing it and we we're experiencing this too. Even though you aren't seeing it reflect >> in the outputs, >> there is uh there is there are signs of growth and improvement. And so one of the problems you have a great example is if one of your measures is for proficiency. Well, if you >> have to care that >> if you have less than a year's worth of growth, then you're really off target because you're never going to get to proficiency.
But if you have a year and a half's worth of growth, but the kid came to you five years behind, >> then you're moving them towards proficiency, right? So, so sometimes I think like for additional data it may be a deeper dive into data to see what those what what is it that the administration seeing that leads them to believe that there is movement. The movement just hasn't gotten to a point where you're seeing it reflected in the progress monitoring report. Does that make sense? >> No. As a teacher that's I mean that's how I look at my kids data. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Completely. >> Yeah. Because a kid comes to you like >> like I had I had one on third that came in at third grade level instead. >> Right. But Right. >> Right. And are you teaching sixth this year? >> No, it's fifth.
>> Oh, fifth. So you got him to grade level which is amazing. >> He is proficient. But I've gotten other kids like being a seller, >> you know, pretty much a couple of my dreams into >> Yeah. >> That's growth, right? >> That's huge. But then they don't they're proficient, >> right? And they don't count as being proficient, but >> they move forward. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's not like they say >> so kids are still making growth. It's just not for the proficient. >> Yeah. >> And I think a lot of people don't understand that. Uh, I don't think the general public understands that. >> Well, and I think the hardest thing because this is what I struggle with a lot is I want like you always hear me say my phrase warts and all. We just want to tell you like it is just the facts, right?
>> And I don't want to make excuses, but I also think it's important to know context and um what are we seeing, right? And so like I think one of the hardest things is to represent that information without it being an excuse. You don't want to take yourself off the hook for being the genesis of change, but at the same time, you don't want to ignore those signals that things are moving in the right direction. And we >> acceleration. >> Yeah. >> It's like um old carbureted cars. You don't really get this so much with like fuel injectors now, but like are you flooding the engine or are you just about to get that >> car to turn over and start, right? Like so if you're seeing signs that the car is going to turn over, that's good. Yes, >> if you're just flooding the engine, then you got a problem.
We need to make some systemic change. >> Um, how should the board address growing divisions among its members? >> That's awesome. Duke it out. Um, I really think maybe like the study sessions like I feel like we have a a lot of study sessions compared to other people which isn't a problem because like it helps us like understand like deeper, right? So maybe they just >> like sometimes people just don't get it like you you know that like with certain people it's just really hard to explain certain things for them to understand it >> or sometimes they don't want >> because their the opinion they have is more important >> right and it's and that's what's stuck in their head >> um what are the risks if conflict continues to escalate publicly I mean I just think >> like how they talked about in there there's so much division going um people finding you know new people to run or you know getting other people outside involved and >> I think the students pay the price ultimately.
>> They always do. >> It's all about behavior and adult convenience. Right. >> Exactly. >> Um rules politics and governance appropriate for me. >> You know what I mean? >> Sometimes I'm sorry but sometimes I mean >> you know what what I'm thinking like sometimes yes I'm sorry >> if people aren't on board or they are like they are on a path of destruction or off off railing people then yes >> if someone's doing harm to the district they're not good for kids >> right then yes like totally how might election dynamics influ government decisions well I mean I think we all the time Um, >> have political grandstanding students. >> Yeah, totally. Heather Brooks had a whole It was funny because Dana was watching something the other day for all. >> Okay, we'll look to come back in a little bit. >> I hate that she has my name.
>> Um, the board ensure that student outcomes remain the central focus. I think it's constantly you open the door and there's just like one of those pictures that you can put it as a background for the kids pictures like all the trees and you're wearing a black shirt. I'm like oh picture Okay, everyone. I want to be mindful of time. >> If I could ask who will give me a little synopsis of what this case study described? Who who will explain that to all of us? What happened in this case study? >> Um I I think it's you know people weren't seeing there weren't results. they weren't seeing results as fast or as quickly as they perceived should be happening and then were getting angry and blaming was starting and then division um and a lot of adult behaviors were happening at the expense of children.
>> Wow. Thank you. Anyone have anything to add to that? >> I would agree. It just sounds like wasting, you know, your board meeting time, >> right? Which is interesting, right? You spend most of your board meeting time arguing about the things when you could have just been asking the strategic questions to begin with and kind of gotten answers anyways. So, it it's just a really interesting concept. I'm trying to understand what the data is really showing because like we talked about data. Um, and I think as a teacher I understand this like your kids may not be proficient in something like you know our Zela scores just came back. Your kids might not be proficient but you might have moved them from one category to another. So there's still growth like good growth going on. they just haven't reached the proficient level where you know but as long as there's like growth going on like you're moving in a good direction.
It's not all about proficiency. >> I I love that because you know I've had a transition over the years of understanding what you understand as a teacher as a classroom teacher that that that growth is so significant. And so the opportunity you have as a board is how you tell that story that maybe the proficiency level isn't there wi with with the conversation you have with your community. You get to try to help control that narrative. Why would that be? Why is growth important? We didn't get proficiency. So help me understand why growth is significant to you as an educator. >> It means that I did my job. >> There you go. It means >> it means we did our job. when you're moving them. If you if you move a kid from, you know, a third grade level to a fourth grade level and you're a fifth grade teacher, they're not proficient, but you moved them a whole year.
That's amazing growth. >> That's right. So, where the student entered my classroom versus how the student leaves my classroom at the end of the year that there was growth for for whatever reasons they entered my classroom in this current state, I was a genesis and my my children and my classroom move from here to here. And if anything, I've now helped them close more of that gap. That's part of the storytelling you get to tell. >> Yeah. So, in our conversation, like in the case study, I believe the administration were seeing some promising things like they referenced it very vaguely, right? But the board obviously doesn't necessarily know that. And that's I think why the strategic questioning is so important because it's that strategic qu questioning that drills down to like what's really happening. And um and so like you know Heather framed it really well, but like if you're getting a year and a half's growth on kids and they're not at proficiency, you can be frustrated that your proficiency percentages aren't where you want them, but at least you know your kids are getting closer to proficient as opposed to falling farther away from it.
And it's just a matter of time before you get them there. So you literally and we see this in district. We've had this conversation in in our leadership team meetings. We see a lot of places where we're just poised to make a big spurt forward, but we're not seeing it in the endofear target results yet, but we're but we're seeing the movement in kids. We're seeing the movement in the quality of instruction in the classroom. Right. But like um Lissa and I were having a conversation the other day and I was like well I'm a little bit frustrated because we've moved so many teachers to a three like on our when we talk about our learning walk data. It's like look how much our learning walk data has imp improved. Like we've moved two orders of magnitude in improvement. Why aren't we seeing greater gains in our results?
And because she's smarter than me she said well because we're not we don't have enough fours yet. because four is where the students are the ones that are leading the learning and that's really that's the critical thing but you don't go from one to four like that there is no pathway to go directly from one to four it's not like a board game where it's like skip three spaces right so um you know ultimately the fact that we've moved the distance we have doesn't mean we can let up on the gas we have a lot of hard work to go but we're closer to getting there than we were we what we always call three years ago and functionally is a lot less than three years ago given our journey. So >> thank you for sharing >> and what go ahead. >> Oh all right.
uh in the case study, I I think the big thing is in this situation is um they want to throw out the baby with the bathwater that they're taking the framework and you know the system of accountability and they're taking that as the results from that right or the two board members who are suddenly oh well I need to make my you know constituents happy So, I got to do something. Well, let's just throw everything out. At least that's what I took from it. >> Yeah. No, that's accurate. So, question, what what could be done, if anything, to begin to remedy that? What what ends up being in essence a potential split in the boardroom. >> You have to go back to the basics. >> Yeah. It's a complete misunderstanding on their part. So, I think Sophia had several solutions. To me, the most basic would be the mindset work, right?
It sounds like there's a lot of adult um convenience going on even with the board and we know about vertical articulation and parallel processing. And if the board starts getting into this ego match or this I think I know better and we're not focusing and reggrounding ourselves in the mindset and the I am the genesis of change then this is where that Spider-Man meme comes up and everybody's pointing the finger at each other and it's just going on and on and nothing is getting done. And I I think it would be important in this situation to have like if somehow these people didn't have a coach anymore to to get an outside facilitator to do that just because they're not going to be able to do this on their own at this point. I I'm finally at a point where I can chime in. Um >> thank you Miss Marquez.