>> But they don't they do very little weed whacking. They don't big tables to mow around them and they certainly don't blow anything with a leaf blower or anything. Um, if you go over by central office entrance, you see leaves on both sides. Oh, I moved it. >> That's not going nowhere. That's going to stay there unless somebody does it. So, um, what I do once a year before school starts is I hire Snow and Suns to go around and clean up all the entrances, put mulch in, clean everything up, make it look nice at all the schools, new elementary, that whole turnaround area, still pull leaves and stuff. We're towards the end of the school year, so we wait till fall or not fall before school starts. and we spend $1,000 $1,500 per school, sometimes close to $2,000 a school. Snow and sons come in and clean that all up.
Like >> it's just not possible. So we would have to fund it entirely. And that is just not doable, especially with um the age of the buildings that they were considering. I think one of the thoughts was like, oh, you could build on to Newton or you could build on to Federal and it just didn't financially it wasn't going to work. and in terms of the building's um health, it wasn't going to work. So, they never explored the possibility of building. So, that's that's what I undertook on my own by going to the MSBA 3-hour long workshop on grants and I sent all of the grant information to Steven Sullivan at the time. And that's something that we could pursue, but I believe the mayor said that our we could not even begin to consider um uh loans until 2030, but the whole process is at least a 10-year process.
Um, if we don't do it, it doesn't get done. So, we do spend money at other schools, but not to do the entire mowing in the field and all that stuff. So, if we don't use snow and we're not going to do all the small schools, too, so it'll compound, get worse. >> Okay. We're just concerned that the process is clean. Um, >> snowense does need to go back out the bid also because we did deleted a contract extension there. >> Um, but that's probably another one that needs to be looked at to go back out. >> But you just got to make sure everybody's qualified to do >> correct >> all the steps there. Irrigation, >> fertilization, and mowing and trimming and stuff like that. And also something to keep in mind, and I don't know if this applies here, but I know that sometimes unless you have union workers or sometimes like a union contract, there are only certain things like we can send Hback out to bid and we can have like 10 HVAC people in Greenfield to do HVAC, but none of them meet the state requirement to do it.
So, we wouldn't even be building until 2035. So, I you all know that my stance is like, let's look at that because it's definitely a possibility. >> I I agree with you on that. Um, I do want to shed some light on the situation and I think both of you have heard it. Back in 1996, they did try to do one big building and it was shot down by the town and that would have been at Murphy Park and also at Newton, we still have the modules here from the extension. And when we talk about like condensing buildings, I guess as someone who's like in the buildings and actually sees it, I just I'm like where how would we be dividing up a couple school would we divide a school? You know, you go into these buildings and I see almost every inch being used like are we now having our special education teacher share space with the band teacher?
So therefore, we're paying more and we're paying prevailing wage. I think HVAC would be prevailing wage likely. Um, >> I don't know. They're driving from Connecticut. So, there are some companies that I have dealt with. It's $1,000 when they get in their truck to drive to wherever they're going. >> And of course, several locations. I think they got one in Westfield. >> Their bills are and that's South Windsor, Connecticut. >> Bills come out of there. >> I I saw one end. >> We also use Jamro a little bit for space and and some refrigeration stuff and they are not union >> and we've not thought of any reason on that and we we can use them for preventive maintenance too if we wanted to. Um one thing that I know the city side does with Joe um he doesn't put his out to bid because I think he does something for each individual building.
you know, like I guess that's where as someone who's actively in buildings and sees the kids, you know, it's nice that we have some quiet spaces for the kids who need it. And, you know, I mean, I'm doing the book fair right now and the only space I can set up in the book fair in this entire building is in the gym. And then at like Federal Street, they set up in the library and GMS they set up in the library. like there's not like extra unused classroom spacesh >> um to just pop in a book fair. >> This is true. I I concur with member web on this. There's not enough space and the buildings are oddly shaped as we know. there are there are spaces they can't even use for the things that they want to use them for because they don't have bathroom access or you know sink access or [laughter] aren't ADA compliant or whatever.
So it's a dollar figure. If I if I hire out the PM for Federal Street School and it is $5,000, you don't have to go out to bidder to do $5,000. But if you take all our PM at $50,000, you have to go out to bid. I don't know if that's a fine line or not. I'm I'm not up to speed on that stuff, but um I know the city does not have they do not have any HBAC texts. I guess the you know it's I mean the people at city hall are all new so for snow and suns to go back um the number of years to find those those papers to make sure the bid was clean. >> I think moving forward we just need to make sure that we're following the rules. >> Well I think right now the the other question for both of these is who did the initial bidding?
Um and we do have a housing crisis in this county. So, I've always thought, you know, some of these buildings would make really great senior housing or really great um city uh offices because we know that the city hall is, you know, crumbling and really can't take the strain of the daily traffic of city hall. [gasps] So, we really need to move that as well. And we have all these elementary schools that are super cute. And we have like precedents for this in the area. I mean, they did it in Miller Falls. So, they have the Highland School apartments that are super cute, and that was an elementary school that was suffering the same problems that ours are. Um, I don't really even think that the problem is going to be space or money or grants. It's really the will of the taxpayers to get involved in that.
Was that us or was that the city? And who will be doing the next round of bidding, us or the city? >> I think we had we went to the city from my understanding when I first came it was I was on the tail end of a couple things, but I believe we go we were going to the city to the procurement person because they had a procurement person. >> How many years ago was that? >> Three years ago. Two and a half, three years ago. And and so they went to procurement person. We told them what we needed. They did the actual bid stuff. They got the bid stuff back, gave it to us. There was a discussion amongst us all and that's where we made the decision on who did the work. So the procurement person in the city did it but then you lost your procurement person.
like it's really a PR thing because we all know how people have felt about the library, our beautiful new wonderful library that some of us love and some of us still hate. It's kind of the same thing. we would be doing something really divisive. And um that's where I see the pain because the beauty of having an elementary school for all is that we recognize and understand that we're in a high needs um area. And if we could build a new elementary school, think of all of the things we could plan in that elementary school to help and foster those kids with different needs. We could think ahead of the box. We wouldn't be just like trying to make something fit and work for them. We could think ahead of time and make things for them. And that's a beautiful thing to be able to do.
I don't think you technically have straight up procurement person in the city. You think it's someone that's doing multiple jobs. >> There's lots of multiple jobs. >> So for the MCO versus BNG, are we going to be the ones putting it out then? >> Um we should put something out. We're Andy. >> Okay. >> I think we I'll give Andy these as a kind of a >> We have >> um >> they'll be able to submit those bids, but I got them just as a reference to see where we're going to be at for budget reasons. >> Okay. >> They're they're they're a pretty accurate budget thing. If if they come in close and I'm assuming everything goes up every year, unfortunately, it probably be 55,000 this year, you know, and and that's probably where they'll land. What makes me incredibly sad is that Green River to fix the furnace, the first boat was like $50,000 and a whole building has been left to rot because people couldn't come together to >> and that's what we we got to be really careful if if you decide to close a school or something.
And I I really truly believe that there are a lot of schools around us that are going to close before we start closing schools and we're probably going going to get an influx of students just because that's happening. Um the rural schools are having problems and they're the ones that are regionalizing. So that's another aspect of it is like nobody's approached us to regionalize and all of the smaller schools are trying to come together and do that. I [clears throat] know that's another aspect of our charge. So >> yeah, >> something to talk about because I think they're all connected. Yes, we are sort of um you know one of the things that we can't control but that we do have a responsibility to act on the basis of is all of this macroeconomic stuff happening around us. Um you know systemic disinvestment in our rural area uh population decline.
>> You can't say, "All right, it cost us $100,000 to run that school. We're going to take,000." You really need to keep a maintenance person going there >> twice a month and keep the boilers running, keep the water on, keep the electricity on because once you shut that stuff down, you get mold, get other issues and stuff like that. So, you know, you just got to be very cautious. There's no value to the building if shut everything down and then >> it goes the other way. >> Well, thank you. That really did help clarify. So, three years ago. I mean, I mean, the records at city hall, >> it would actually be four years ago. >> You you do have attached to hopefully you can open it, but no one's on contract. >> I I got it from Becky, too. And I was able to open that.
Um, and like like there's population decline as in we are like our birth rate is just not at replacement level which is not just in the United States that is all quote unquote developed economies throughout the entire world has been for a while but there's also population decline in western mass in particular as people are getting squeezed out by raising prices without wages also increasing proportionately or um not enough like good long-term jobs. Um so they go elsewhere to seek them. Um you know, so like there we're sort of like in the mastrom of all of this happening and trying to figure out what we think is the best thing to do. And I also want to just acknowledge that we're trying to do long-term planning in a context that is fundamentally unstable. And so it might seem like an oxymoron or contradiction in in mindsets, but I think that we can and we do have the ability to look ahead at the trends that are happening now and saying, "Okay, absent some like massive change in either direction, this is the general trend we're still operating under and we're probably going to be still operating under that in four, five, 10 years, you know.
>> Yes. Thank you. Um Okay. >> And I think their pricing is did not really increase. We added some scope work to it. >> Oh, that's good to know. >> But the price really hasn't gone up. They they're actually really good with the athletic director. >> I hate talking about names. Ed Snow is one of my favorite people on the face of the earth. >> Kyle does a great job. >> All my houses have been Snow and Sons. And Ed, I mean, Ed has taught a lot of people how to be a great business owner. Um, yeah. So, I have a lot of respect for what they do. >> And the nice thing, Coach K, he will work with him directly on when he has games, when he doesn't have games. this is a good time to mow, this is a good time to put the fertilizer down, and then they'd run it by me and we all agree.
Um [clears throat] and so and yeah and I um so I think that is part of what we're doing and part of what our charge is and I think that that's one of the ways that we can build on the NASDAQ study because they lay that out pretty clearly of like here's the macro trends that are happening and I think that we can that's what we can do is we can go back and say yep that trend held up yep our data showed that we did that or nope it actually changed in this way and here's what we think the like impact of that change in whatever way is. So that's that's part of what we're doing is a little bit of study up. >> Um and then to I think y'all's point about um getting the community on board to do anything. I think that's part of why we're an advisory committee and not just a subcommittee is because we want to make sure that there are members of the public who can help spread that word on our behalf and that if they were part of creating the decision then they can be part of helping us advocate to the public.
So there there is a real good communication process with snow and suns. >> And so the answer to the concerned citizens is that uh when these bids were originally put out, it was city procurement. So >> that's so they're the ones who have the information. And um the next round we do not yet know if it will be city or school but we will have that information in the near future. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. So that is where we currently are. Wonderful. >> That was wonderful. >> Any other things for >> I have something for Mike before. >> Um I I took a note and it was about the gym floor. It was in one of the warrants from 410. Uh, PO number 261316 I wrote down, but I thought we did our own gym floors and there was something in there. >> We used to do our own gym floors.
And I think being very transparent, being very open about what are what are the options we're even looking at um and giving confidence that we are systematically exploring these and that it's not a knee-jerk reaction to anything, but it is a thoughtful um like view of what our needs are in the long term can help us. I don't think that we're ever gonna get 100% agreement. Um because that's just not how people work. Um but I do think that we with enough consideration can have a decision that most people will be able to live with. And that's that's kind of where we're aiming for at this moment. Um and to the to the question of like how old even are our buildings? Um, Federal Street North, 1906. Federal Street South 1930, AEAL 1930, Newton 1915. Um, Four Corners 1955. So, rapidly like that doesn't sound like that long ago, but it's almost 100 years ago.
Um, >> okay. >> And then I um noted some uh PO numbers for the water damage for the elevator for Federal Street School. That was also in the warrants. >> Correct. Soda first. >> Okay. Flooring first. um >> just so we don't grow on us. So I was having that conversation. >> Two two schools um the middle school and high school are very big gyms. Y >> our staff just doesn't have time to get it done. It's and some of the old school guys were very familiar doing it. The newer people are not. So, for the cost of having them scuff the floor and put a fresh coat on top is um it's roughly around 45 4,4500 I think to do the high school and I think it's like 3,000 do the middle school. Um the materials alone are each 5gallon bucket is uh like $500.
It's like 85 years ago. Um, GMS 1960, but I think that that might even be Is that right? Um, and then GHS are obviously our newest building already a decade old. Um, and so I think that that's just like yes, they're adorable. Yes, they are charming and the maintenance on them and the energy usage on them kind of a kind of a bear biting us in the butt a little bit. Um, and when I've done, you know, we've all done these walkthroughs, we've got we are doing the best we can with the facilities we have. And imagine if we had facilities that were built for the modern era that were bright and open and airy and had air conditioning um or you know and used green infrastructure. Um you know I think that that that is something that is worth us looking into. Um I recognize that the appetite in Greenfield for building new buildings is low.