I look forward to seeing all great things the class of 2026 will accomplish. [cheering] Students, don't forget to go over the concession stand to get your actual diploma. Huh? Yes. I got to go see Uncle Phil. Keep going. Can't see anything. Hey.
So, people use it without the engagement of local government, per se, isn't its formal ways. And I thought this is such a beautiful way cuz one of the things I think when we come to city council meetings, the residents who are not government people at all, who barely even know that their local government functions, who we take all these modern services for granted, they're coming usually with heightened emotion. It's usually negative. It's usually something that they're frustrated with or afraid of. And and then they come into an intimidating place that they've never been that feels and then again, they see the council and they look like they're there supposed to be there. They're up on their high arches, right? Or or their big seats. And then the staff looks like they know they've been there a thousand this is where they work. This is just the place.
And so, it makes the resident, I think, very in a in a place where they're going to have a negative probably emotional reaction to whatever they're geared to. And if we can rethink space, if we can rethink how we use this and and just like don't get comfortable because you've been there a thousand times, but think what does that look like for a person coming in maybe for the first time ever into this place about this issue. And so I think it's it is good to set the scene like Chad said with just relationship and remember that we're here to to do well for our city. And what Jonathan said, I think sometimes you have you have to remember you got elected for something and now you're elected and that thing's not going to go through or it is going to go through, but now you've got four years on the council to to make sure water happens and project and other things go forward that you might not even have any idea that your local government does.
Yeah. All have something to do. How are we using the place and the space? Yeah, and what I'm hearing is from all three of you it to synthesize it a little bit is just the importance of of process and um creating a relatable experience for people. You know, one of the things and you probably see this or hear this from the people that you interview is how do we get messaging out better? And I am now of the mindset that it's it's not necessarily that we need to find more vehicles to get to get the message out. We need to change the message that we're sending. Which is really how does what we do every day relate to you and your quality of life, you know, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, you know, it like how does it connect with how you're living your day, how you're going about about your life.
And I think to your point some people do see town hall or city hall as an intimidating places. They are especially here in New England where you've got some really old ones, grand, very, you know, elaborate structures that just, you know, it's not like a place where you're going to go eat dinner, you know, quite frankly. So, that's that's really really interesting insights and just how process, you know, the in I don't want to say informality, but relatability and approachability. Maybe that's the the best >> That's a good word is approachability. You know, it's funny in y'all's answers, Jonathan's specifically your answer, got me thinking about what makes a great council member. Cuz so many of them are elected because it's like, I'm mad about this thing and I'm going to go fix it, right? And then they get in there and they find out, oh, this is a much more complex problem than I thought, or this is unsolvable, or it's going to take a decade, you know.
And it got me thinking about what makes a great council member. We're talking about the relational piece and the the welcoming piece. And I think so much of it is curiosity. Like, can a council member get in there for a reason and then have the curiosity to say, but I don't know everything. Help me understand. Like, that's I think what makes really great council members is the one that can pivot from I'm here to solve all the problems to how can I help? How can I learn? And I think that you become more welcoming when you're more curious cuz you're more open just everybody around you. And I I think that's really interesting. I never thought about the they are they're different regimes and different seasons and how can they come together as this disparate group to form something that is welcoming. I love that.
Golly, having a farmers market as part of your town hall, I'd never heard of that. That's incredible. That is the coolest idea. Yeah. Yeah, there's there's some creative, really unique institutions in local government that are, you know, idiosyncratic to to that community. And that's just what makes local government so awesome, I think. Um So, just moving on to the next question. One thing I really wanted to know, so across all all you've had tons of conversations and across all of them, uh the ones that you've had with the public service leaders, has there been a moment when someone said something that just fundamentally changed how you understand the work? And and if if you did have that moment, what was it and why did it stick out for you? We'll just Yeah, do it like popcorn. Whoever wants to jump in. Okay, Jonathan, we'll start with you.
How's that? >> [laughter] >> That that that that that that that that that that that that that that What Valen told. Well, um I've had some amazing conversations and I've been thankful for every person that that takes the, you know, the 2 and 1/2 hours it takes to to put put together uh a great body of work. So, I wanted to to start with that first and foremost. Uh but, there was one conversation that that really stuck out to me. Uh it was Vince Jones-Dixson. Uh he is a commissioner of Multnomah County uh out in Oregon. And uh the reason it stuck out to me uh and anybody that's heard my podcast, I always say it, I I truly love when I feel like a municipal leader or somebody in in leadership is called to do the work. Uh and he was simply just that.
Uh so, uh he grew up in the the county in which he um uh is a commissioner now. And uh one of the things that uh was was very much important to him was his brother. And his brother, uh what was important to him was supporting the youth. Uh there was a underserved community uh in which uh they they lived in. And his brother really wanted to pour, I believe it's called the Rockwood community, wanted to pour into that community and specifically the youth. Uh and he told uh Vince that his dream was to create a program uh that supported young people and gave them options uh to to make sure they're they're making the the right decisions. But unfortunately, his brother was uh senselessly murdered. Um and he was shot. And when the emergency people showed up to the actual scene, they unfortunately didn't do anything.
They sat there and they actually watched him pass away. Uh this was a tragic moment. And and later his wife actually was doing a community project. I believe she was getting her master's degree and she went back to the community and did a town hall. This town hall was was attended by 40 people and they wanted to to really get the essence of the Rockwood community. And while he was there, while she was there, two people saw vents and came up to him and said, "Hey, I was there when your brother was murdered. I saw what happened and the emergency responders didn't address him and I actually have the video." So in a large county 40 people that showed up to community event, two people actually had the video. So he watched the video and saw the emergency responders not um not give him the services that they need.
And what did he do? Not get angry. And this is when at a time when people were calling to defund the police and people were calling to to not He's an African-American man for there to be some some sort of divide with the police. He did the complete opposite. He did a listening tour for 3 years talking to emergency responders, police officers, the the city council to understand what 21st 20th century 21st century policing actually looked like and what it was supposed to be. And that led him to to to then run and become a commissioner. Uh and he was able to make sure that things like this didn't happen. Not from a place of pointing the finger, but from a place of understanding and having that conversation. Uh and fast forward to to now, uh he was able to help uh a program uh that uh his brother uh wanted to create, create it, and get over $2 million for that program to support the children of uh the Rock community.
So, when I think of that story, I think of somebody that was truly called uh to to lead their community. Somebody that didn't take the easy route, which is hate and um and pointing the finger, but shows understanding. And leaders that are called and choose understanding are the people that I want to have leading my communities. Yeah, that Wow, that's a powerful. That was That must have been a powerful moment at that, you know, when hearing that story. Um I literally got chills. Um you as you know, I I do uh the hour-long pre-interview. Uh so, I knew the story. But on the podcast, there's a moment you can see me visually get chills and seize up hearing the story the second time. That's how powerful it was. Wow. Wow. Seth, what you Did you have an experience like that or or something different? I think Jonathan wins the experience.
>> going to say, follow that up, Seth. Go ahead. >> [laughter] >> It's not a competition. I think >> Says the guy with the gold medal. >> [laughter] >> I think for me, it's the it's all of the It's the build. It's all of these interviews in the same thread that weaves between them all. It's basically this with the municipal leaders, uh now over 300 and what, 25 plus episodes. It's the dichotomy. It's the dichotomy of people in this profession that love this missional work. That they are that I mean I meet I get to meet some of the best people I think in the world that just love places and people and that's what this work is. And yet it's the dichotomy in today's age of incivility, in today's age of whatever's kind of negative um in the media, whether that's social media, whether that's verbal media, it is the truth.
And and so they they feel like they're kind of fighting they love what they're doing, but they feel like they're fighting this almost invisible wall. Maybe it's not even in their community. And some people are they go my community is awesome. It's this pressure almost nationally or globally that's just weighing down on us that's so it's creating burnout, it's creating just a a heaviness, I think. Even as they interact, maybe their city's good, but they're interacting with people with the conferences and whatnot. It's just this heaviness of man, we're trying to do good work, hardly anyone knows and appreciates it. And and we have to deal with, you know, Fox and CNN and everyone else and Facebook and I just the diatribe of everything stinks. And and I think it's that dichotomy that I'm concerned about. And again, that's why the podcast exists. I think that's, you know, the thing that three of us are trying to do is share the amazing work that is happening at the local level.
I I don't Again, I think state and federal are important, but the local level is the government of the people. You get to go in, no matter how intimidated you feel by your town hall, you get to go in anytime you want and say your peace. And what what where else can you do that? And and I think it's powerful. And you can go get involved. That's the more important thing. You can be There's commissions and count all kinds of things, volunteer opportunities to vote. I mean, and your vote matters in significant ways. And and and these people love their place and they love they love their neighbors. That's the other thing. These people, local government, are serving their neighbors. They're not serving some idea and policy. These are the people who are bringing you the essential needs, water, trash. Can you imagine not living with those things?
Well, I mean, you know, it's amazing. You you you hear the you hear the complaints when it doesn't get picked up, you know, because that's when people realize it. It's like, "Oh gosh, the the trash is usually picked up on Tuesdays or Wednesdays and it hasn't and it's a hot summer day." Um I always refer to local government as the foundation of society because I got to be honest, my toilet stops flushing, it is probably a day before I'm flipping things over and setting them on fire. Like, I'm starting riots, all right? Cuz I need that toilet to flush. And so, I think it's amazing how these these things we take for granted are truly the foundation because we would not we would not do well without them. I think Seth really hit something there. It's It is local government. That's why we all do this.
It's magic to to interact with these professionals who are so creative, so smart, and just so good at what they do and they're passionate about it. And that's It's so exciting to see. Yeah, [snorts] yeah. Chad, is there a particular moment that sticks out for you? There's I think kind of like Seth's, it's not a particular moment, but it's a series of moments that all tell the same story. Um for me, it is when we're interviewing people that are late in their career and we always talk about what would you go back and tell yourself. What What's the one thing? What's the one piece of advice you would have for yourself at the beginning of this long decades-long journey, you know? And there's always some version of I wish I had learned to slow down. I wish I had learned to take care of myself.
I wish I had learned to to be present in the moment and not just miss everything focused on what's next, you know? And that learning to take care of yourself in the process is the thing that's been missing, I think. Um because you see, it's funny, I talked to a city manager one day and we're sitting there talking and he said um he said, you know, I can tell you when I was appointed and I can tell you when I left. And I can tell you my kids' ages in that range. And he said, I don't remember hardly anything about their their childhood in that those ages. And that's heartbreaking. And these are the people that are making our society work, and yet they are they're they're getting run over by this career. And so this all kind of culminated, I think I we have this same conversation a lot because we we talk a lot about sustainability and how do we create that for ourselves.
And this all culminated, I interviewed Bradley Ford. He was the he's former city manager of Waco, Texas. And it was an incredible interview cuz Bradley's young. And he ran into some health challenges because of the stress of the job. And he eventually had to step back and he finally he he did a little mini step back and it was like, oh, I'm going to change everything. He changed nothing. Spoiler alert, and the health problems came back and he finally realized doing things the way I'm doing things, all the muscle memory I have built up that has made him highly successful in this this job, it can't keep happening or else. And so he he was willing to step back. He was willing to say, you know, what? I'm going to to resign from this position. I'm going to take some time off. I'm going to take care of myself.
And then I'm going to come back at it ready to rock and roll. And that ability to step back, I think most of us were taught that retreat is failure. And yet retreat is how you create a sustainable career. That ability to step back so you can keep going forward. I think that matters. And so that just that theme of people at the end of their careers saying, I should have done this differently. Mhm. I cannot I can't stop hearing that because I think it's the reality for most of us. And so it's I think the reason we dive into all these conversations is to try to help people see, hey, you're not alone out there. You are not by yourself. You're not the only one dealing with this and there's got to be a better way. And so that is where we're trying to get to is what is that better way and how do we embrace that?