Oh man something that doesn't have anything to do with local government. Um, hmm. >> [clears throat] >> Oh, I was you know, the first thing that came to my mind is you, but it did teach me about local government and you're like this this style of what's happening in Ashland where everyone gets to come in and and have a say. That's that's Old town meeting. Yeah. >> it like so wild. Um, man, something that doesn't have to do though with local government. Man, that is a my brain is so geared on the local government. Um, I I think it's just the again, maybe it is local government. It's just the places. I love diving into the stories of these places like the history. I think my favorite episodes probably have been they're usually the smallest cities. They're the places Van Buren, Maine, the middle of nowhere and just how it kind of has changed, how it came to be, how, you know, mining or the mill or, you know, something, you know, the power plant, something it did.
And then like Van Buren's a great story because that mill, you know, the kind of the typical thing shut down and then the thing that was keeping it alive is it's right across the border from Canada. So it has like a border crossing where when you cross you have to do whatever your paperwork or stuff there. The federal government moved that border crossing like a mile down the road and it killed it. It was like the death now because now no one had any reason to kind of walk into right into downtown and get lunch and now they they're already a mile out of town. So we'll just keep on going. To hear these fascinating stories and then to hear my favorite part is the turnaround. Like how do you turn a place around? How do you take the old dilapidated hockey rink and turn it into pickleball and people are now playing and coming and showing up and and loving things going on.
>> Pickleball's always the answer, isn't it? >> It is. It really is right now. I mean, if you're not playing pickleball, I don't know what you're doing. Yeah, being young. >> [laughter] >> Fascinating stories always get me, but we're yeah, it's that's a great question. We're so I'm so focused on local government. but I was thinking Yeah. Yeah. Um Jonathan? Yeah. Uh I got one that on the surface was about government. Um but below the surface was uh so much more. Um uh a town manager came on my podcast and shared uh an incredible story of facing uh addiction and then showed how they had to utilize the services. So, they got to see the other side of how the government supported them. And then they went on to lead that same government. And when I heard that, I was like, "Wow. I truly wish there were more people leading that have actually had to lean on the government uh in in certain hard times." And then I looked at my myself uh when I'm when I'm leading or I'm running a company, um am I actually coming from a place of humility?
Have I stopped and looked at it from the the customer or the client's standpoint? Have I actually needed to reach out? Would I actually need this? Uh and I wish more people uh were were like this town manager. Uh so, that that's something I learned. Mhm. Love that. Cool. Chad? [snorts] >> That's a good insight. That is a good Beautiful. You know, for us, this is an easy answer for me because it's funny having a show called Leading Thriving Cities. You would think public service is the core of it, but really it's a leadership podcast. And when you start talking about leadership, it's how do you lead yourself to lead every area of your life. And I'm amazed how often the conversation veers into parenting, at leading a family. And for me, that has been one of the most beneficial things is sitting with mothers and fathers and kind of wrestling with the the doubts that come with parenting and the the fears that come with parenting and it's fun when I sit with people that have older kids.
My kids are all out of the house and married and so when I sit with people in the same season, we're like, "Man, we made it. Can you believe we made it?" And then when I sit with people that have young kids, I'm like, "God, please, please, please be present in every moment." Like, "Yes, they're frustrating as hell, but please be present because you're not going to remember it if you're not." And I was never present really in a in a important way for my kids when they were young. And you don't get that time back, you know? For me, it was burnout. Burnout stole that from me. And so I really love when it veers into parenting and we talk about what leadership looks like in that context. And it's always amazing for me how much of that transfers directly to the conference room.
So you go from like trying to get your kids to take their baths and go to bed and do all that. Next day, you're in a meeting and you're trying to get a 65-year-old police chief to learn how to like take his bath and go to bed and do the things and it it really transfers perfectly. Yeah. And it's really fun to me when that happens. So I love I've learned a lot about parenting and I've been encouraged as a parent just by interviewing all the the fellow parents. It's always it's always fun when that happens. Parenting, that's a journey, too, right? Wow. It's like city management except, you know, a lot more crying. >> [laughter] >> Well, it depends on the kid. My my mom might might disagree. Um I started to say I started to say it's like parenting but with a lot more dirty diapers and I you know, I don't know if we want to throw that sentiment out there or not.
That would be an interesting guest, for sure. >> [laughter] >> So last one, gentlemen. Um what's the moment in an interview when you know you're going to get something good? Now, I'll just let whoever wants to jump in first. I'll throw my answer out there and it's probably going to make me sound like a a but I'll throw it out there. like It's honestly just the second they walk in the room. I know it's going to be good. What what I have learned is I want I want us to have a great conversation, which means we're just going to sit and talk. And so it is not about I tell my friend like we're not editing this. We don't edit anything out unless you say something that'll get you fired, we'll take that out. Outside of that, we're just talking. So pause to think, say your ums and your ahs and your like I don't we're we're good with that.
Pretend this is you and me just having coffee. There just happens to be a bunch of cameras and microphones and lights. Um and I think that's we've gotten so I think good at that not in an egotistical way, but in creating space for conversation. I'm just confident that we are going to have a great conversation. It doesn't matter who it is. Everybody that walks in the door is super nervous. And I'm like, guys, seriously, don't worry about this. You're going to be okay. And we have just a short little 10-minute pre-conversation just to kind of connect and we talk about our kids and what we had for dinner last night and what foods we love and just random things. And it's amazing how that just eases in and then we jump in to the same four questions every episode. And every one of them goes in a wildly different direction.
But I honestly believe like if you look back at every episode we've done, there's great parts of every single one of them. And so I'm just confident we we create space for that conversation well and I think a lot of it is we care. Like I love these people and I love the work they do and I'm passionate about telling those stories. And so I know we're going to bring that passion and that love to the process and I think people feel it and I think that opens them up. And so for me it's the second they walk in, the first time we connect and I smile and shake their hand. Sometimes it's the first time I'm meeting them. In that that moment of connection, I'm like, okay, we got this. And so I that's that's a weird answer, but that's my answer. No, I totally get it.
Totally totally resonates. Seth or Jonathan? I think it's Oh, think it's No, jump in, Seth. Oh, you go. It's yours. You're Seth on this one. >> [laughter] >> Okay. So, it's it's two-fold and I know that that's probably cheating and I'd probably call it out, but >> [laughter] >> Are you smuggling in an answer? >> me a little of grace when I when I was doing yours. So. The the first part is that I do like an hour and and change initial call before the the podcast gets going and I already I always lead with what my like looks like and I get pretty in-depth into some tragedies that I faced around like losing my father, things like that. So, I try to set the stage of Let's let's really do this. Like let's really get into it and I've seen once you lead with vulnerability, people return that.
So, I usually after that, they go and and I tell them, "Take the long way. Take the scenic route when describing your your background." So, I really get to get like their why and why they're doing that. So, I really appreciate that. And then the second part is one of my favorite things to do is title the the podcast and there are there's been times when I'm like when we're literally doing the podcast live and and I'll say it. I'm like, "Yep, that's the line. That is the the title of the podcast." Cuz they'll just say something just so like pointed and just perfect and I'll I'll call it literally call it out the I think I know what the title of this podcast is going to be and that's when I know if if it made me elicit that that effect, I usually know my the viewers will will get that same sentiment cuz it's coming from a place of authenticity and truth.
Mhm. Absolutely. Seth, what about you? I love that. >> [snorts] >> I think all all these things are so resonate with all of them that so true. It for me it's I don't do a pre I don't do anything except we we get on and we hit record. So I'm a little crazy. I'm a little Are we just inherently lazy Seth cuz >> No, you're you're inherently smart and I am I am just [laughter] I've always thought it's because I want to be super curious. I do not want to know because that keeps me engaged in the conversation, right? And so just for my kind of personality, but what I do is at the beginning every episode starts the same. Take me back to the beginning before we get into your professional accolades and let's talk about just you as a person. Take me back tell me where you were born and kind of the childhood that shaped you and I will know if it again most of our episodes are great Right.
because like Chad says there's always something great, but I I I know how difficult. So it's not whether it's going to be great. I know how difficult my job's going to be based on how they tell that story. If they're very protective, if if if it's very like if we most of the best ones actually will even start with vulnerability and they'll share something in childhood. Like I remember yours Michael. Like I knew I was like in fact as we were telling your story I was like are we even going to get to town management? This is such an amazing story already. And so some of those I think of yours I think of Mike down in Sugarland Texas. Some of you guys just the what you've been through even what Jonathan mentioned that adversity beforehand just coming out of what shaped you is the power of people's story.
I mean that's what we do I think what we do we do. I just love story. The human stories are amazing and the more we can be every one of us has challenge and that's the danger is when we try to compare or contrast or make you know our story d e I remember growing up in church and on Sunday nights it's like testimony night and we'd all I'll like and it was like we'd outdo each other on the testimony. >> Yeah. I was addicted to three drugs. I was addicted to seven drugs. >> And then I was addicted to Jackpot. And it was just like more and more crazy. And I think like your story you have come through it. We've all gone through it. It's just different different shades, different struggles, different types and yet you are here and you are persevering and you are making a difference.
And so I just yeah, every story is amazing but you can kind of tell I think someone's ability to own their story and be vulnerable and to really shape or really tell what shaped them. The man this is powerful stories. Yeah. Yeah, Seth I think that's a a good way to to kind of start closing this out is just the the importance of story and the human story like you said and um I'm going [snorts] to give each of you an opportunity to just um say some final thoughts but uh that gives me a good segue to just say how much I appreciate you being willing um to spend so much time and of your own resources in sharing the stories of public servants um around around the country because it was a story that wasn't told um a lot um it's it's in some ways very obscure even though you know you see you see representatives of local government every day.
I always tell our police officers if we're you know going to read a book uh to a classroom those kids are going to care a heck of a lot more who that police officer is than who I am and um I think the fact that you were telling these stories and getting it out to people and just number one um helping the people in the profession um be more open giving them a venue to talk about things that in in some ways helps connect them is incredibly important and I think helping to share our stories with other people hopefully in a way to get more people interested in local government. Um, because that is that is becoming a crisis. Uh, the the amount of people leaving public service, especially at the local level, is um, is is striking and uh, should be concerning to everybody.
Yes. >> Um, so so thank you. I I will I will do a proper send-off afterwards, but I want to give you um, all an opportunity to to just give me some final thoughts. Chad, I'll start with you. The last guy gets to go first. Yeah. Um, so I You know what's funny? I was talking to somebody yesterday. Uh, I'm coming back to Massachusetts in a couple weeks and one of the parts we're going to do at the conference is kind of a live version of our podcast. We're going to interview a couple people. And I was on the call with them yesterday and they were both a little hesitant like, "Who am I to do this?" And the thing I told them, I think I would like to encourage everybody with is they one of them commented and said, "I'm looking out at the crowd and thinking like, what do I have to share that's better than what they have to share?" And I told him, I said, "It's not about being better or worse.
It's about your story. Each one of us has a very unique story." Seth just talked about this. And it's in those unique stories, you know, it's in in Jonathan talking about losing his father and it's in in those those unique twists of the story that people can can identify themselves and go, "Oh man, I've been there." And in that moment, they feel like they're not alone. And when we started this company originally, it was understanding that leadership could solve so many problems. Uh, but part of being leaders, you know, we're taught that it's lonely. And I think that's a lie. I think we buy into it and we're like, "Well, I'm lonely, so I must be a great leader." Man, great leaders surround themselves with other people. And so I think it's just understanding that on your journey, all the twists and turns and the challenges and the hardships, those are meant to help other people.
And so, it is about telling your story. Your story doesn't have to be better than anybody else's, not more insightful, none of that. It's just your story. And so, I think that's part of why we're so passionate about doing this and why I think we would all agree like this is it's it's to tell the stories of other people in order to help others. It it it I guess it kind of redeems the experiences we've had, you know? Uh I got to stand on stage yesterday and talked about some hard things that happened to me as a kid, the first time I ever felt shame. And what I know is as hard as that is to do in front of people, it it connected with people. And I guarantee you there's other people walked out feeling like, "Okay, I'm not the only one." And so, I would just encourage people that watch this and think, "Well, I could never do anything like that." Do it.
Tell your story. Your story is uniquely you and it was very specifically the way it is so that you can serve other people with it. And I can tell you it brings redemption to those stories and to those experiences that we would look at as bad, suddenly there's life. And so, I would just encourage you do do not hesitate to share your story if you ever get the chance because it will absolutely help somebody and change their life. And maybe it's a small way, maybe it's a large way, but it does have an impact. So, tell your story. There's a reason you have it and it is not just a hold tightly and and protect. It's to share. Uh and so, that's that's why we're so excited about this and want to keep doing this for a really long time. Cool. Cool. Seth, how about you?