001Well, good morning everyone and welcome to the Orange County School Board's work session which has been scheduled for today, Thursday, March 26, 2026 for the purpose of discussing space utilization update. The public will not have an opportunity to provide input in today's work session because this is not a regularly scheduled schoolboard meeting. no action will be taken and there'll be no open public comment. For those of you joining us live, thank you so much. For those of you who are joining us remotely or later on through YouTube, thank you for your interest in Orange County Public Schools. really quickly here we have President Member Ferand, member Douglas, member Salamanca, member Vanos, and I know that member Galla will be joining us shortly. here. I'm sorry. Member Gallow is with us. Member Bird is not able
002to be with us today. nor is member Felder. As a reminder, board members will not be engaging in outside electronic or digital communications during the meeting so that we can focus our full attention on the business before us. To my fellow board members and district staff, when speaking, please speak directly into the microphone. make sure it is turned on and so that those in the chambers can hear us as well as our YouTube and Orange TV viewers can hear you clearly. Again, thank you for participating. We will now rise for a moment of silence and then I invite you to join us in the pledge of allegiance. And now for the pledge. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation indivisible with
003liberty and justice for all. I think we need to Oh, John, did you John? Yay. I got chided for not doing it correctly on Tuesday, so I did it correctly today. Loudly. We all got all the over here. Yeah, we still I don't I don't want to admit it, but if you go back and watch the tape, I paused. I can't believe I paused. I paused and then I jumped in with you, John. Dr. Vasquez, what side of that were you on? I thought I heard you with John. I'm deaf because he's I'm right next to him. So, not only does he speak it clearly with a pause, but he does definitely do it in a voluminous manner. And so, I'm just trying to stay focused. All right. Again, I feel bad for anybody who's
004might be tuning into this and doesn't know what the heck we're talking about. So, there's been a debate going on. the pledge of allegiance, the sentence one n one nation under God is actually all one sentence. And people over time have broken it up into one nation under God. And so that's been the debate. Is there a comma there or not? John and I have been on the side that obviously there's not. And he found that even in the federal statutes it's very clear there is no comma. So moving forward we are trying to adopt the correct pronun what's the articulation? one nation under God. I will be here until November. This is my last term in office. I had a number of goals I wanted to accomplish coming into them to this. I did
005not think that converting the school board into the correct articulation of the pledge of allegiance was going to be one of them, but well, I'm not there yet. Work in progress. Okay. We're you guys are a work in progress. All right, Dr. Vasquez, you're recognized. thank you, Madam Chair. This is a continuation of the work session Tuesday. we have Dr. Border and members of the team that are going to be presenting information related to space optimization. And so we know that there have been several factors impacting the maximum or most efficient use of our facilities. we unfortunately had to consolidate seven sites. which has definitely brought us into a new realm. and we are learning a lot of things as we're going along this process. So today you will get an update. We are going
006to need consensus from the board on one item. I am going to ask the board to be very cognizant of time because we do have a closed session and we have outsiders an outside organization that's going to be presenting to us. So with that and Dr. Border and his team actually are aware of my request to be efficient although they did remind me that we started late so you can still have your time Dr. Border. Good morning Chair Jacobs. Superintendent Vasquez. This morning we will be presenting updates on our space optimization work. Our goal in this presentation is to gain board support for ensuring we continue using our assets in a fiscally responsible manner in this new era of public education which would be to apply the capital recovery or full cost model which you
007will hear more about in this presentation. I want to thank team members Jess Lambert, Jonathan Earles, Tamara Pelk for being here this morning as well as the others who are turn tuned in and looking forward to your conversation and discussion. I'm also joined by Ben Allen, senior director of research, measurement, and strategy whom I'll turn the presentation over to. Great. Thank you, Dr. Border. today we will review several different topics related to space optimization. We'll first talk about the work that is happening related to the current consolidation of seven schools. We will also discuss the criteria and highle timeline for a potential second round of consolidations. Next, we'll talk about thirdparty leasing of buildings. And we'll conclude with a brief conversation about partial on-site consolidations to reduce operating costs at underrolled schools. As we talked
008about in December 2025, the district space optimization work supports several priorities. Specifically, the primary objectives of this work are to reduce excess seating capacity and for the district to maintain control of long-term capital assets. To the extent we can also accomplish secondary objectives while meeting these goals, we'll also seek to lower our overall operating cost ratios, build network neighborhoods of support, and maximize facility efficiency, and account for growing areas of the county. The consolidations of schools has many secondary effects. This image visualizes the network of schools that are in some way involved in the current round of consolidation. In addition to the seven schools that are consolidating, which are indicated in orange, 26 other schools are directly impacted. 13 schools will see changes in the general education population. Nine schools will see changes in their
009ESSE units and four schools will see changes in both. We will also see changes with Orange Center Elementary as it converts to a charter school and students who were zoned for Orange Center are zoned into other OCPS schools. Because of these cascading impacts, it's important for us to prioritize our work. First and foremost, we want to make sure that all schools have a strong finish to the academic year. Midyear results look promising, and it's important to keep the focus on instruction and culture for the rest of the school year. The next priority to is to ensure that receiving schools have everything they need related to this consolidation work. Those are the schools that students will join next year. So we need to make sure they are properly equipped, staffed, and otherwise resourced so that students
010and staff don't miss a beat at the beginning of next year. Then we begin the work of repurposing the consolidated schools. Some of those sites require only minor modifications to be used by district offices or by thirdparty tenants. Those scenarios will be prioritized first so that we can use otherwise unoccupied consolidated schools to benefit the district and community. At the same time, we'll begin design work for schools that need more substantial retrofits. That process will last at least a year, potentially more depending on the scope and design modifications. In terms of support for our receiving schools, district staff are already working to provide support for those schools. The environmental compliance team is coordinating integrated school inspections to identify potential challenges and expedite any work that will be needed before next school year. These are occurring
011at all schools receiving general education students as a result of the consolidation. This includes looking at unoccupied classrooms and common areas and the team is making recommendations to the school, identifying how district departments will assist and entering work orders. We also have a cross department team looking at material movement so that receiving schools have access to the curriculum materials and equipment they need. and these processes are ongoing and will be coordinated through the division of learning to ensure that we don't disrupt the school environment at the consolidating sites. Absent unforeseen trend reversals. We will also need to consider continue to consider the consolidation of schools. This work is led by this district's student enrollment department. The same criteria that applied for the first round continue to drive the team's work. Specifically, the district may need
012to consolidate schools in areas with a history of declining enrollment and where nearby schools can accommodate students. Additionally, the age and condition of the facility are considered as well as special programs in place at the school. This timeline shows the overall phases of work for consolidation. Phase one, which we are currently in, is shown in purple, and phase two is shown in teal. In phase one, we are currently working through the support for receiving schools, and we will move into distribution of materials at the end of the school year. These distributions may continue throughout the year. We're also looking to start placing tenants in schools that don't need substantial retrofits as early as this fall. We will also enter the design and build phase for site renovations with an eye towards July 2028 occupancy, if
013not sooner. After initial conversions with potential schools, phase two will follow a similar pattern in terms of the timeline. The state board of education updated the rule governing schools of hope on February 20th, 2026. These updates clarify some definitions and place restrictions on and requirements on schools of hope operators. This topic relates to space optimization because of the potential for schools of hope operators to claim space for coll-location in underused schools. The revised rule states that in addition to the current location requirements for a school of hope, which would be the zones near persistently low performing schools and opportunity zones, only buildings that have a facility utilization rate less than 75% or have at least 400 student stations are eligible for collocation. Additionally, schools that have been in service for less than four years are
014exempted. Hope operators are limited to five building notices within a 12-month period. To issue additional building notices, they must resend a previously issued notice, and that's statewide. Additionally, they must attest as to their intent to colllocate in the buildings they're issuing letters for. They will not be allowed to issue notices simply for the purpose of reserving space. The revised rule also includes provisions that would allow districts to charge incremental costs for services with the details worked out through a mutual management plan, although those details are determined as as we would go through that process if needed. For third parties, there are a few different models that we considered for potential leasing opportunities. we looked at a base model that would cover the carrying costs for spaces. that would include maintenance, utilities, and recurring services. We
015looked at a second model that also amortized the cost of previous capital expenditures and also brings in some liability considerations into the model. And then a third option to look at market rates which is complicated by the lack of comparable properties. One note to consider in these rental agreements is that they will need to include insurance premiums that the district would need to pay against our assets. These agreements will not generate enough revenue to self-insure and we cannot allocate FEFP for thirdparty leasing. Because of the requirements around this issue, we plan to move forward with a full cost model to establish leasing rates. and this would also apply to current tenants as we renew agreements which could lead to cost increases for those tenants. We've received interest from several potential tenants and are in ongoing
016conversations to match space availability, district and community need and thirdparty interest. While we have not had dep in-depth conversations regarding pricing, we anticipate that many considerations that will come our way. our recommendation is that we move forward in applying the capital recovery or full cost model to ensure that we have covered our operating costs plus potential liabilities. We are also looking to pilot something called partial on-site consolidation next year to learn about potential cost savings. One of our objectives is to lower operating cost ratios. and this can help us accomplish that. If schools have contiguous unused space, which could be a few classrooms that are next to each other or part of a hallway or a building, we would be looking at what we can do operationally to reduce the need in those buildings. the
017cost savings would come through a reduction in cleaning frequency, decreasing the energy needed to to condition those unused spaces, and reducing wear and tear on the impact of fixtures and equipment. We'll be working with schools and the division of learning to identify potential pilot sites for this work so that we can better understand the cost savings in a live dynamic environment. We are looking for at least one elementary school, one middle school, and one high school to participate so we can understand the effects of partial on-site consolidation. I'll now turn the presentation back to Dr. Border for some comments and discussion. Thanks, Ben, and great job as always. Chair Jacobs, members of the board, thanks for the opportunity to share with you this morning. I'd like to thank the chiefs across all divisions and their
018designated staff for the continued support as it's been the fabric of our progress so far. We continue to learn every day through this pro through through this process and we look forward to bringing information to the board as we continue moving forward. For example, maybe we will want to consider not collecting impact fees from builders in high growth areas and instead reszone students to schools close by with space. The board's discussion on such examples will continue to serve as guidance as we work to ensure OCPS assets are positioned well so that all students graduate prepared and inspired for a thriving future. We look forward to the board's conversation and questions. Dr. Vasquez, this concludes our presentation. thank you so much to the team. And I know you've been working on this quite quite a bit
019and as we are all learning and appreciate the effort and the collaboration from all the different members of our organization. I'm going to now turn it over to the chair. All right. Thank you, Dr. Vasquez. team, thank you very much for the work and the presentation. Member Galler, you're recognized. Thank you, Madam Chair. so first I'll just circle back to the last thing you said which was impact fees. I know that we're the study's coming up and I know that it'll come before the board. I've had conversations with with Dr. of Vasquez and I'll I'll be having some conversations with Dorian and Judith about the impact fees because in my district we just closed Bonavville and I have a large development that is getting ready to plot and we're even the CAS we're still trying
020to collect on CAS when we still have student stations available. So, I do think it's extremely important as we move forward that we are good partners and that we don't just collect money to collect money, which I know that we don't do, but we really need to be cognizant of where we are in in our economy and affordable housing and all of that. And anything that we can do to minimize the cost of home sales, I think would be fabulous. And plus, we should be collecting money when we already we can just do some reasonzoning. And I mean in in my district there's so many open seats and I know that we have to we have to look at that and look at other areas that are continuing to grow because we do have a
021popka and I know in member Salamanca's area is growing but when I looked at the impact fees I think we were projected to only collect like $75 million last year that may pay for like one and a half elementary schools will pay for a middle school and definitely won't pay for a high school. so that's not where we're getting the funds from to to to use and there's all kinds of guidelines where we have to give the money back within six years, which I won't get into. But anyways, I just wanted to say thank you for having that discussion and I look forward to hearing more about it. I do have some questions. I would love I would also love to really and I know that we're working with the city and the county on
022some of our use of space. I know out in the east we have a huge homeless population and so any any type of services that we can bring out in the east to help offset that cuz this the homelessness these are children too like they're in they're living in the woods and they have children and they're 9 years old and so anything that we can do to help with the issues that we're seeing out on the east would be much appreciated. But I don't know if we could do like a temporary shelter at Union Park Middle because it's so centrally located right there and that's where the unhoused population is really congregating because we have the Samaritan Resource Center there and we have several churches that do help feed those that are unhouse and I'd
023like to say that many that come through those two centers do do have homes. It's not just for the unhoused. There's a lot of people that are suffering suffering that cannot put food on the table. So, I love that we get the opportunity to actually as painful as this has been closing these schools for our community, for our staff, for our students, any kind of bright silver linings that we can create to help the community, I think would be a good use of the space and help kind of help us all deal with the closing of the schools. in the schools of of hope, I know that the rules did change, so they we are allowed to collect dollars, but we could still only get the allocation that they're giving for safety and security and
024for busing. Is that correct? Or can we charge more than their allocation allotss? So the allocation for transportation and safety, it is if the schools of hope were to use those services through the district, right, they would surrender their allocation. There's no specification in there for additional pieces. However, can you make sure your mic is turned on? yep. Is this okay? Just pull it closer. There we go. so just to repeat, if they are using the services for those transportation and safety services, the allocation would go to the district, but we know that doesn't necessarily cover the full cost. the parts that are included in the rule talk more about the mutual management plan for other uses in the facility. so I think it would be an open conversation as to how those incremental costs
025are determined and including the transportation like it would be an on it would be a conversation we would have to have if we find ourselves in that situation. Okay. Thank you. But we would still be in charge of if they wanted to use our busing busing. I mean, we're obviously going to be in charge of our security unless they bring security in, which then generates all kinds of questions because I guess it could be a guardian. Like, there's just so many questions, but we're still we would still be paying for FNS. it would be worked out. Again, any incremental costs that we could justify that are beyond what we already provide, that's where we would be able to go into the mutual management plan. And just so we're clear, we don't have we're not entertaining
026any schools of hope. Like none of them have applied that we've accepted at this time. Correct. We have no active letters. No, there are no active letters at this time. We have done significant work to reduce the number of seats that are available. And I do want to give kudos to Jezma who has been a godsend in that area working with Ben. And we also believe we are reducing the footprint of the number of schools that are even eligible due to the label of being a persistently low performing school based on the latest u data we have from the state. So, we've definitely minimized it, but we have not received any letters as of yet. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Vasquez. And the and the last two things that I'll I'll say is that I
027know we're looking at transitioning the students over. It doesn't really have to do with the presentation, but I know we're looking to transition and we're looking at open houses and doing everything that we can to make the students that are happen to move school feel comfortable in their new home. So, I really appreciate that. and I look forward to hearing more about what we're going to do with these schools because the only way we truly decrease our footprint and save money is to lease out or reimagine these schools into something else. So, thank you very much for the presentation. Thanks, board member Galla. All right. Thank you, Member Galla. Member Vanos. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just had a couple of and thank you for this presentation and I really appreciate the time and attention
028that you're putting into helping the students transition as member Galla mentioned. I think it's extremely important in this process. I had a couple of questions also relating to schools of hope just so I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. when you're talking about the mutual management plan with member Gallo, you said that the district would really have to sort of like work out an agreement with the hope operator. So if you can't reach an agreement, then what happens? My understanding is that then there would be mediation between the state and the district and the operator. Okay. So mediation between the hope operator and the district with with the mediator being the state. Okay. So Okay. Actually actually it's a magistrate. Magistrate appointed by who? the DOE. Okay. Okay. So, so really what
029I'm hearing is that the district really has no bargaining power or leverage in any conversation about the mutual management plan, right? I would defer to. So in the rule itself, it says if the hope operator elects to receive custodial nursing and food related services, the district may charge the hope operator for the additional incremental cost for such services resulting directly from the use of such services. And it says the additional incremental costs associated with with those services shall exclude the cost that the district would incur regardless of whether the hope operator's use of such service. So, for example, you know, the air conditioning that we would pay to for our folks in food services, we would incur that anyway. So, we couldn't charge them an incremental cost, but we could charge incremental costs for the
030additional students we serve food to, you know, cost of the food if we had to hire additional folks, etc. And then it says we have to give them a where did it go? The district must provide the methodology and supporting documentation used to calculate the district's actionable reasonable cost to provide such services to the hope operator. So we would work up those cost and give it to them and hopefully once we gave them that backup data, we could reach some sort of agreement. Failing that, you know, then we would go to a magistrate appointed by DOE and we would have our evidence as to what the incremental cost is. They would, they being the hope operator, would put their evidence as to why they don't think our charge is reasonable and then we would get
031a decision. Okay. thank you for that explanation. So, it so there's really not a requirement. It's sort of like here's what we're spending and hope that you agree that it's that you're going to pay for it. Okay. and I guess my other question was and you pretty much answered it sort of asking about incremental cost and really what that means because you're right for something like utilities it's going to be operating anyway. So that's we wouldn't really be able to charge for that if the cafeteria is working anyway. we're not really being able to charge for that if so it's really maybe like if you have to purchase extra food or something then that would be a hard cost that's easily chargeable. Yeah. If the nurse is already working all day, she's working all day.
032I think the major cost we would be concerned about is just overtime because if they have a different start time or end time then we would have to pay staff possibly additional. That's the main issue that we see. Got it. Okay. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks, board member Vanos. Member Fon. Good morning and thank you again for the presentation for helping us understand you know the moving forward where we're headed. I do have a few questions, maybe some concerns. I know there's talk too about possible consolidations in the future. and discussing this with the schools prior to and letting them know. Something that concerns me with this, not that you wouldn't want to share this with the schools, but I think it has to be done delicately because the one thing I see
033happening is teachers, administrators, staff saying or even families saying, "Okay, if my school is possibly going to consolidate maybe I leave now instead of waiting to see what happens. and that's something I think we really need to be very careful as we move forward. giving them clear guidance and helping the schools to understand ways that really can help them to succeed and bring more school, you know, children and students into the classroom. you know and things that I would love to see too is for those schools to say there's actually a group in our area that wants to you know some of these the third party leasing type things where we can maybe you can use some of the school space to help with that. go ahead Dr. B. so we actually are in the
034process of sharing because we have finished making the changes to the utilization rates. That information is going to be shared with all schools. and then we are starting our deliberations on the possibility of the school closures for next year. And so the board will have one-on ones first to gain your feedback on that. And we do plan to notify any school that could be considered for closure for next this time next year before the end of the school year. So families are aware, staff is aware, and quite frankly, many of them may want to see, you know, if they are able to recruit over the summer so that more families are attending in the fall. another question that I have. so I have Acceleration East is one of my schools and I know they are
035currently in a smaller building and it's high school so they do not have the gymnasium and like a normalsiz cafeteria if you will. they really have been adamant about finding a space that would fit their students. even possibly, you know, moving that to more of a like a middle to high school age range. I know Union Park Middle School is there. I know we've talked about moving the facilities department into Union Park. So my question is what is the benefit of that? do we own or rent the current building that the facil facilities uses and what would be the benefit of moving them from their current location off of Oakidge over to Union Park Middle. Thanks board member Fant. So, the first part of that question, when the one-on- ones take place, and there are
036considerations moving forward, depending on how those conversations go, there may be opportunities for, what you were talking about with the needs at Acceleration East. we do own, facilities is in multiple different locations across the district. so the goal would be to be able to bring them together in one location. we do own those spaces. we have additional abilities that we have with that with those assets as a district which is something we also need to consider moving forward. so I don't know if that answers your question. Okay. I'll let the super Yeah. I also want to say that we are currently looking at Union Park Middle to relocate many if not all the offices that are at the John Morris complex. That would be saving us millions of dollars in construction costs. but the team
037is aware of the request to try and find a comparable site or a site that meets more of the secondary student needs. so we will try to work that out. I don't know at this point in time if Union Park Middle is a possibility, although indications are that they there may be space that can be set aside. so they're still working through that. Wonderful. So moving forward, board members then would be you will be having one-on- ones discussing the possibilities who's moving into where and that such. Correct. Yeah. Thanks, board member FR. So, we met as a team earlier this week and student enrollment is going to be scheduling meetings with board members one-on-one to review some what what they've been working on. looking at information that we've looked at in the past, right? enrollment
038trends over 10 years. declining enrollment when the building was last renovated. nearby schools with space and the ability to if that were to happen to have families and students be able to move in a way that minimizes the distance. And so they're going to be talking with board members one-on-one and getting your feedback. Okay. So, in this meeting, we're not really discussing who would be utilizing these classrooms. That's more in the future. This is just an overview. Yeah. Yes, ma'am. And so, we are part of what we want to get from the board today is your feedback, hopefully consensus on us moving forward with a full cost model for leasing. we do have several agencies expressing interest that we've been talking with. The next step is to get into depth with the cost and then
039begin working on MOASUS leasing agreements. And so that's part of what we're hoping to gain through this conversation today. and then we'll be able to as those agreements come forward have specifics on who would be leasing those facilities. We are looking to ensure that you know we're working with agencies who are also providing services that benefit our communities and also support us you know in our work in Orange County Public Schools as well as part of that process. Perfect. So moving forward then we will we will see a cost breakdown then of the like basic model and then versus like a full cost model or how will that work for us to be able to really make a good decision? So we are happy to have that conversation today and we can we can go
040back and revisit that right now and if you got any specific questions we're happy to to answer those. But when you look at those models, the reason that we're looking at the full cost capital recovery model is because of the dollars that have been put into these facilities and what will need to be there to maintain them moving forward to ensure that we're being what we believe is in the best fiscal action of those dollars. And Ben, do you want to elaborate on that and then we can answer specific questions? Miss Fra. Yeah, I think just the detail here and a reminder that a basic cost model would only account for the operating costs of a space. So that's the utilities, the scheduled maintenance, the ongoing upkeep of that space. It would not account for
041any previous investment the district has already made to construct that space or to develop that space into the condition that it currently exists in. And it also doesn't account for any of the depreciation of that space. and it doesn't account for any of the potential liabilities if something catastrophic were to happen to the building because of the restrictions on FEFP if we don't have those liabilities covered. using a basic cost model exposes us to substantial risk of not being able to reconstruct the facilities because we aren't using them for instruction at that point. We're using them for third-party services. Although they might be aligned with community services and district needs, they're not being used directly by the district for instruction. So really the basic cost model kind of serves as our ground of what does
042it cost to just operate a space but it doesn't serve as a good model for what we can charge a third party to use that space because we have to account for all the other liabilities that go along with the use of the space. Okay. And I guess every school will be a little different on every school is a little bit different. Yes. Elementary look different than middle schools and high schools because if we're looking at a fully loaded cost where we're continuing custodial and maintenance services, those models look different depending on the sites. There's different room space and configurations, different access points. There's a lot of different nuance that goes into it. So, it really has to be considered sight by sight. so to give you a single ballpark number is a little bit
043difficult and I don't want to put a misleading number out there that may look very different even from one elementary school to another elementary school. Okay. I do want to make sure we're just fiscally responsible. it does sound like more the full cost model would be more fiscally responsible, but I also don't want to make sure, you know, I want to make sure that we're not charging so much that people don't even want to partner. So just finding that happy medium. Thank you. Thanks, board member Front. Thank you, Member Front. A couple of a couple of questions and comments. The Dr. Vasquez, you said we would let the schools know the ones that were possibly under consideration for consolidation. I've been talking to u Mr. Howitt. I know his team is working with individuals individually
044with all of our schools to have them put together information piece about the benefits of their school in particular as well as the benefits of Orange County Public Schools. And I would I'm sure this will happen, but at the same time we're sending out any information about possible school closures. it would be I think extremely important for us to simultaneously send that information out. Forget who who mentioned just a minute ago that some parents may see this as a reason to change schools now rather than have the the possible you know disturbance in their continuity for their students. we heard recently, board members did, you probably did as well from the OC PTA president, Miss Williams about wanting to volunteering and wanting to know what their membership, our PTA members could do. And I think
045they make excellent ambassadors. And so if we can send the message that there is hope and there are things that you can do along with the message of you know our concern I think that would be extremely helpful to have it at the same time. No I and they are and I do want to reiterate this is not new to the schools. Schools receive and know their enrollment. They have known about their enrollment and their capacity for several years. This is not new adop Mr. Howit's team has been working on marketing with schools for at least four or five years directly because we were seeing this increase in the number of students enrolling. and so I believe that principles did not estimate that we would get to the point where the enrollment was so low
046that we would be forced to close schools. number two, we were between a rock and a hard place because we heard from families of some of the schools that if they had known, they would have worked to recruit families. The flip side of that is exactly what you said that some may say, I want to avoid a school closure. I'm going to go someplace else. In some of the cases, the numbers that we're looking at, there's not the students aren't there to re to bring back. it really would be families taking advantage of our open enrollment where they could bring their children to that school. and so you're going to see a little bit of that. Communities that have aged out. the declining birth rate is still very real. individuals are not having as many
047children as they had in years past. and so we believe that alerting all schools of what their capacity is. So every school is going to get HR that has been revised based on a thorough inventory of spaces that they currently have. and making sure that if they were allowed to have, let's say, a planning room, and they had none, they were able to institute a planning room. So teachers had a place where they could actually come in, have conversations, plan. and so every single school is going to receive what their utilization rate is. And in addition to that, we will have conversations with those principles of the schools that could be potential closures for next year. We are first going to gauge board members feedback before we finalize that list. Once that list has been
048finalized, then we will set up those meetings with the principles of the schools. we hope to also have a community meeting towards the end of the school year that presents the similar same information that was presented to schools this past fall, what their numbers are, if they do have families that are currently, you know, attending other schools or are homeschooling their children. and then ways that they can work over the summer to amplify the programming that is taking place at their school. and we also know that we've continued our contract for one more year with Quesa K12. And so they are also looking at those schools that have the greater gap so to speak between the capacity and enrollment and that have parents that reside in that area. All right. Thank you. that was that
049was very helpful. obviously a very full plate between now and the end of the school year. but it's it's good to hear kind of a bigger picture of the whole plan and all that's involved in that. the other question won't surprise anybody, but if I understood you correctly, one of the thoughts are one of the ideas is to not collect impact fees in high growth areas. Did I hear that right? high growth areas. Thanks, chair. So, what we were what we were saying is we'll continue to bring the board information forward as we learn through this process. One of those topics is that potential idea of not collecting impact fees when we have space in nearby schools where we could reszone. we do have some high growth areas continuing you know Lake Nona, Horizon West,
050Apopka, but in areas where that's not the case potentially considering not collecting impact fees. Okay. I'm sorry. I heard it around. I thought you were saying not collecting in high growth areas. No. So yes. Yes, ma'am. Okay. I feel much better. Okay. No, that makes that makes a lot of sense and I was hoping I misheard that. Okay. that. Yeah. Okay. Thanks, chair. Yeah, no problem. Because I was like, we're we won't be collecting any. I would love to think that by not collecting impact fees, we're going to see a reduction in housing prices. I'm I'm sorry, I'm a little and I'm not not being argumentative. I'm I guess a little doubtful that that won't be seen as additional profit margin. and maintained but it would it would be nice to see that reduction and
051you know the issue of supply and demand certainly plays a factor in this. So you know this is a very difficult situation nationwide. My daughter's in Austin and she's like mom I how did you guys buy a house? And I was explaining that once, you know, we bought the first house, then we made enough money to put down on the second house. And she's like, "How did you get into the first house?" And it was it's just such a different economic environment that it's really and again, it's it's nationwide. I And as the superintendent pointed out, I mean, we have a declining birth rate. So if we had an increasing birth rate, you could say, okay, population is just outgrowing the ability to keep up with housing. I don't know. So but you know, we
052will certainly do our part. Those are my those are my questions and comments. Let me move on to Yeah, definitely. And thanks I can sleep tonight. member Vanos, thank you. I just had a couple of follow-up questions. when we're talking about the new potential schools for consolidation, I know you said that the principles have been made aware and will be continuing to be made aware of their enrollment numbers and I know there was a mention of possibly doing a town hall, but will parents also get that information directly like via parent square like are we being really clear with parents about what their enrollment numbers for their school are so that they know? Let me go to Dr. Vasquez. Sure. so our intent is to the enrollment numbers can be shared with families. Those are
053actually if I'm not mistaken a public document on our website. So at any time a parent can go in and take a look. for those schools that could be potential school closures. th it is for those schools that we would specifically have a town hall meeting. We definitely are going to strongly encourage that our principles through their PTA meetings and their SAC meetings share the enrollment information and they do receive enrollment information every month from our student enrollment office. and that really should be a practice that they add to their communications with their families. And so we certainly can put out guidance to the family to excuse me our principles about how we want to be able to share that information. It may be something that we can also do from central office where there
054is a parent square notification is sent out at the time that student enrollment shares enrollment summaries with all of us and then schools can do more work independently based on their enrollment. Thank you. I think that would be a fabulous idea just to make sure that all people know. I don't you know not a lot of people attend town halls or PTA or SAK so I think that would be really important. and then my second question is as we are sharing information and I know part of the reason for sharing information is because we want to give people people have requested you know whether it's parents or teachers to have an opportunity to recruit. so I guess my question is there is there actually hope that there can do things and make a change over
055the summer? Because I we talk about declining birth rate. you talk about even if everyone in the neighborhood is going to your school, it's not enough. And so I I want to be really transparent in the enrollment numbers so people know, but also clear that you know what's realistic for parents and teachers and principles to actually accomplish. Thanks board member Vanna. So in these conversations that we would have it would be similar information with some updated things we've learned through this process but in some cases I think they're different. So in some cases if you look at the number of students residing in the area to your point there there are not students in the area not meaning that you couldn't go out and recruit because you have space from other areas but residing in
056the zone they're not there but in other cases we do we did see some sites that there are some stu significant numbers of students in the area that potentially you could bring in additional students that get us to a position financially where operationally it makes sense to continue operating the school. So I think each situation is different and that would be information that we're able to share with the community. schools have that information. I mean that's part of to the new strategic plan and that's one of the KPIs and so we've we've been looking into that resides attends data by school. You know, there's another part in that data that we don't or are not able to capture. If students have never been with us, you know, there there could be this other set of
057students that have never attended OCPS as well. That's that's hard for us to account for. but through marketing efforts, those audiences could also be reached. Okay. And I'm remembering now from earlier conversation. So, when we do the resides versus attends, the information that we don't have is a student who's never been here before, maybe using a taxpayer fund, a voucher, like we don't really know. We can't capture all of those students using the vouchers. There's there's a lot in that. So, I'll let Ben see if he can succinctly answer that on what we have and don't have when it comes to the vouchers. Yep. So, if a student has never entered our information system, meaning they've never enrolled in the schools or they have never registered as a home education student, then we don't have
058record of that student. there is some movement through the state scholarship information to have ID numbers assigned as those are coming in, but those don't necessarily match up. There's there's some data quality issues and that we're we're still working through the data quality in that. but if there's not a corresponding record to match it against in our system, that also is another challenge. So, that's the big one. And that typically is the students again that have never entered the system and have usually gone to a private entity for their entire educational career and have not taken a scholarship to to receive that. That's going to be the largest unknown population that we have. Okay. And also from what I understand the you know the largest portion of people sort of taking advantage of the taxpayer
059funded vouchers you know are obviously people who've already been there. They've already been paying. But then the second biggest part is within OCPS is the students who are entering kindergarten. Is that correct? So we would have no record of them. Could you repeat this last part? So from what I mean I'm I'm like seeing a pie chart in my brain from another presentation and from what I remember like the largest portion of Orange County students who take a taxpayer funded voucher they like basically were already paying for private school. That's the biggest part. But then the next largest part, I think it was 17% and I don't know if my brain is remembering this exactly correctly of the individuals taking the voucher are students who are entering kindergarten. So we would then have no record
060of them within OCPS. Madam Chair, unless they were in a prek program with us, we would not have that information. Correct. Correct. Okay. So, and I'm just so as we're sharing information about who's in your community, we it's it's hard to know exactly. It is. I mean, we have I mean, do Yes. To your point, we will not be able to capture every student that resides in your area with some of the gaps you've expressed. Yes. Okay. Thank you. and then my other question for the consolidation criteria. you know, you mentioned the things that we've talked about many, many times. History of declining enrollment, nearby schools, age and condition of the facility. I feel like everyone should know that pretty well. But, when you talk about special programs in place at the school, what do
061you mean by that? So consideration of programs we have for students with special special needs and making sure that the same way with nearby schools for students that are just that are general ed that we have the same ability to move students to programs in a way that is going to be in a geographical distance that makes sense. Okay, great. Thank you. And then one last question if I can find my paper. Oh, I know. So this the last question is about the sites and I'm just wondering and I and we've talked about this about you want to utilize a full cost model which I'm assuming is more you know is the more expensive one compared to basic cost. but then we also and member Fant mentioned this and several other board members just about
062wanting to make sure that the resources that the school had provided to the community are still there. And so I'm just wondering like how you're weighing how you're pro, you know, and I'm thinking about maybe that sort of the nonprofit groups that would be providing these services also probably can't afford to pay the rent or make the lease payments. And so I'm wondering how you're prioritizing it. Is the priority getting the needs to the school community or is the priority you know bringing in as much money to the district as possible? Like how are you thinking about that? Thanks board member Vanos. I mean I think that's the challenge of the opportunity that we have before us is balancing those. I mean I think that the nonprofits currently are leasing space in most most cases
063not you maybe not all but they're paying for space. So, I certainly don't think my that it's in our best interest to you know to to not charge for space. but it is a balancing act. For example, if we have early childhood providers that want to partner with us, that gives us an ability to impact curriculum and pedigogy maybe in a way that we're not currently able to. that then gets us kindergarteners reading proficiently and above grade level. you know that that's part of a very complex conversation. so yeah, hard to answer, you know, 100%, but we do want to do what's in going to be best interest of the community while also making sure, you know, we're not losing money as a district by operating spaces. so I don't know if there's more to
064add on that, Ben. No, I think I would just reiterate the balance piece there. I mean value isn't necessarily financial value entirely. So we have to weigh the value that comes in from the financial side but also from the strategic priorities and what's in the best interest of students in the community. So it's like Dr. I think the word to pull out of that is complex. It's it's a complex conversation around that. yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thanks board member Vanos. okay before we move on I want to one Dr. Vasquez, if I can have your attention for just a minute. So, I want to be mindful of what happened at our last meeting. We were here for 7 hours. and we have two more board members queued up to speak who haven't spoken yet. so
065Dr. Vasquez, we again, I just want to make sure we're accomplishing what we need to accomplish. I know we're running a little late starting our next meeting. What do you need from the board before we conclude this meeting so that we accomplish your goal? And I definitely want to hear from the two board members that haven't spoken. So I don't want to I don't want to be rude and cut them off. So our recommendation is that we move forward with the full cost model as we are looking to lease our facilities and that would allow us to not only recoup the cost of annually maintaining the building but it also helps us with the insurance and the capital improvements that we put into it and that is lower than the market rate. That's what we
066need consensus. All right. Thank you. So, let me do this. Let me call on member Salamanca, member Douglas, and then after we've heard from both of you. we want feedback on that, but the feedback should be I'm good. I'm not good. And then, if there's a need to discuss that further, I think we need to schedule a separate meeting so that we can stay on target today. Member Salmon, you recognize. Yes. so, I think we were just chatting about this, which was I I fully support the full cost model. I think one of the things that this reminds me of and it's something that I've heard a lot of during my time in office back and forth, this board in particular going back and forth on this is the fees that we charge as schools
067to folks that use our facilities. And when we were out there consolidating schools, there was a lot of parents that were very upset with OCPS that our fees are very low and that we are not making some revenue that we could to save our programs, to save our schools, to save our teachers. This board has also many times had the same concern of well, we have these great partners, these great nonprofits, so let's not overcharge them. And so it's there's no right or easy answer. us supporting the full cost model means that there is going to be a higher fee and I like I'm okay with that. I think it's difficult though if you're a board member and you start getting calls from partners and educations and nonprofits saying OCPS is charging really really high.
068That's a really hard call to get. But it's also a really hard call to get from our parents on our teachers and our programs saying we're losing money. We don't have money for salaries. We don't have money for programs. and you are not raising the fees to the amount that you should and we're under market rates for rental like for what we would be getting otherwise. So I think you're not going to be and not everyone's going to be happy with either of these decisions. I'm okay with the full cost model because I think every single school that I consolidated brought up the disappointment that our fees are so low for just basic facilities. I think I went down a little bit of the rabbit hole of do we make any money at all when
069we rent out a baseball field or whatnot and we actually lose more money too because we have to have custodial workers there. There was some capital needs and updates. If something gets broken, we end up paying for that. So, it is break even at most for a lot of the programs that we have. and so it's really hard to tell our parents or even our teachers when we're trying to we're saying we're trying to find money where we can when we have very low fees or third party leasing. And so I'm fully aware of the decision we're making here. I'm very supportive of the full cost model. I think that's kind of part of the fiduciary duty of being responsible with the taxpayer money as well as we can't have another source of loss in
070the cost structure of this district given how tight the budget is. So, thank you for thinking through it. I'm excited to look through the numbers and hopefully we can find partners that align with with that cost structure as well. So, thanks for Dr. Vasquez, you want to comment on that very quickly. We are going to be bringing to you increases in fees to the facility rentals of our of our buildings because as board member Salamanca pointed out our schools are losing money and are having to provide staff. So probably will be getting the phone calls, but we have to be able to at least pay our bills. And with the current rates that we're charging, we are not. And so I'm just going to remind you of the conversation today when we start talking about
071raising the fees. Thank you, Dr. Vasquez. next, let me hear from member Douglas. Okay. Thank you again for a great presentation. Every time you guys shows up, it's just wonderful. You just great job. Thank you so much. I just want to say that my you know I also support the full cost impact to recoup some of the funds that we're losing and they already talked in length about this. I do not need to you know to repeat the same speech. Anyway, my negative takeaway in all that we say is that we may or will experience again more closing. That's something that breaks my heart. Okay, just to say it. and I also but but my positive takeaway that I just wanted to acknowledge that I haven't heard anybody say is that our schools actually heard
072us. I mean they are on medias. I mean they have wonderful videos about their programs and extracurricular activities. It's just amazing what we're seeing on Facebook and on Instagram right now and they're doing an amazing job and I'm sure that some of the parents decide to stay just due to those videos that they're posting online. It's just amazing. just one question. Can we consider turning some of these schools intomies of sports or technology for young kids that just started to understand technology and even starting sports? Is it is it is it I see this smiling. So I think board member Yeah. board member Douglas, thanks for the question. I want to be cognizant that you have another meeting coming up. So, I'm hesitant to say this because this will come forward in future conversations. but
073we are hard at work on determining, we firmly believe we can determining how we set up our own charter school. That would be the umbrella to allow us to operate our own micro schools, which are exactly the kind of boutique tier one experiences you're talking about. that would then allow us hopefully to avoid those heartbreaking conversations continuing to happen year after year because that type of model I think meets the demands of our families and community and parents and would help us in this process. So, for anyone listening, traditional public education, Orange County Public Schools is still your best choice, but we are also looking for how we meet what we're hearing from families and communities and seeing in the micro school movement. And, so I don't want to go too far into that. we
074are hard at work to hopefully bring to you soon all of the structure that needs to be because you'll need to support that structure once we get there. so we're hard at work on that. Thank you. I'm looking forward to it. Thank you, board member. All right. Wonderful note to end on. Dr. Vasquez, I support the full cost model with just one caveat. I think it'll be important to come back to the board on a fairly regular basis with how that's going in terms of the obviously the pros and cons. And one of the board members that might have been members Salam Monka mentioned that you know we've got variable cost and if the variable costs are covered then that's very helpful but we also need to make sure that the cost that we're charging
075isn't that we're running off some of the folks that are paying where there's not a variable cost but maybe they're absorbing some of the fixed cost. So, I think that's going to be a balancing act. I think what I just said probably from the look on your face didn't make a lot of sense. We'll talk offline, but yeah, we've run different scenarios. and believe me that the full cost model is still significantly below market rate. And so, we are not looking to take advantage of any organization. We're cognizant that we really want outside agencies to make use of our facilities to be able to enhance what we're able to provide to our students and our families. So, we're we're there. Thank you. I'm really excited about what I just heard. and I want to if
076there's any board members who are not comfortable with proceeding forward with the full cost model need to hear from you now. Member Gallo. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm I'm in support of the full cost model just as we're we're going through it. we do have some nonprofits that only come onto our campus to support children. and they don't it's not they don't make a profit. So I'm just hoping that when when we analyze these that those that are students are directly benefiting from that we include that when we talk about the cost models. That's that would be my only concern. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Any other feedback on this? If not, I know we hear you loud and clear that we're there'll be more calls about costs, but at this point in time, you
077have the board support. All right. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks, Chair Jacobs. Thanks, members of the board. Appreciate it. To be clear, Heat. Hey, heat. Hey, heat.