Northshore School District School Board Retreat

001Okay. All right. Um, as promised, we're back. a little more than two minutes, but um we are now starting um the public portion of our board retreat and we are going to have uh we have brought in a WASDA consultant. Some of you may recognize her as former board president Amy Cast and she's going to work us through um best practices around community and staff engagement. >> Thank you, President Hayes. And um it is it is such a pleasure to be here today. Um this is Amy Cast Wazda Consultants. You know, I was doing the math before I came over. I've been doing WASDA leadership development consulting for eight years now. This is my eighth year. I'm just starting and um I I don't know if I've even told you all this story. I um

002there was a year President Hayes and I um there was an RFP that WASDA put out and we decided to apply because Wazda had come in to help the board here and it was pivotal. It was Trisha Lubach when she was a consultant before she became executive director and all the steps in between. she came and had a really huge impact on us and um so it's really been incredible to be able to pay it forward and so I'm I'm here now to be able to support you all in your work and for the public was stands for Washington State School District Association. >> Thank you very much Director Tran. I appreciate that. Yes. So what being the um state agency that supports the work of school boards across the state and part of the

003mission is leadership development and um a whole wide array of options and some of which is having a consultant come to you and make things um u make custom workshops that talk about topics that would support your work supporting your students. So I you get Amy facilitator today. Um, so you know, and and seriously, I I I wanted to start that way to make sure we make this time work for you. It's really hard to get everyone together. Um, I right know from experience and so uh we'll we'll touch base as we go along to again make sure it works for everyone here. But since since you have Amy the facilitator, um I wanted to start with an icebreaker just because you know that's what people do and again time is precious together and so

004I it's really it's a simple one. It's not going to take forever but I am really curious if we don't mind um talking about so not what our favorite class was necessarily when we ourselves were students but what our favorite elective was. if there was an elective that maybe it was a pivotal year, it was super, you know, super impactful, or it was just that was the elective that, you know, lent a spark to your day. Um, and so I'd love to hear from folks. I don't know if there's a volunteer to go first. Director Kelly, do you mind sharing with us what your favorite elective was when you were a student? I'm sure to the surprise of no one it was theater. I spent many years in theater and uh so you're looking at

005Frenchie from Greece. Uh I was Queen Titania from Midsummer Nights Dream. Um and I also competed in California. We had the Shakespeare festival. Um and I competed in the Shakespeare festival as well. So um theater theater was my favorite elective in my whole life. So, not just my theater, uh, I also did it after school. And then when I became a TA, I TA for the theater teacher. Um, yeah, that's that's my my answer to that. Thank you for that. And director Tran, mine was ceramics. And I spent so much I was such a I I spent a lot of time alone in the ceramics room just making a bunch of stuff and also ended up being the TA for it. I just enjoyed that solo time. >> Thank you for that. >> Um I

006think this would not be a surprise, but mine was banned. Um I did not play French horn until 9th grade. Um because the teacher because I went I went to a school that was 7th through 12th. So I had already knew the teacher and was he was saying he needed some people who played flute and clarinet to switch to me for marching season and you only had to do it for marching season. So my dad had played French horn. So I, the flute player, volunteered and I got to band the first day and it took 3 hours to learn to play a concert B flat scale. And I said, "Can I quit?" And he said, "No, but you could switch to the trumpet section." And I said, "No, I'll stay with my section." Because of

007the six of us, two knew how to play me, two were flute players who were transitioning, and two were clarinets who were transitioning. So it was comfortable. At least if I didn't know what I was doing, I was with in good company. Um, and by the time the next year rolled around, I was in the top band. And that was just a great learning experience and and having somebody really believe in me that I could get there was great. >> Thank you for that. >> Um to following the trend of the arts. Uh mine was photography. Actually I had two favorite electives because I don't follow rules well. So uh well I just don't follow rules so it's fine. Um I did photography for three years and I also did an independent study in photography.

008um and took photos for the football team, weirdly in my senior year. Um and then my other favorite was community service and I volunteered in a preschool and a retirement home and so clearly I went one direction more so than the other. >> Thanks, director. So or vice president. >> Uh well, mine was fine art and drawing. Um, and in fact, I'm have a class I want to sign up for now and just trying to figure out how I can manage my job and a class. Um, but I'm ready to start watercoling for the first time. So, um, I've done oils and, um, been an oil painter for years and haven't really been practicing, but um, I want to try watercolor. So, we'll see. Maybe President Hayes can give me some time. I think it's

009>> clear that through. Um, okay. I've been stressing out this whole time. Like I don't remember taking electives. Um, >> we did and in fact um uh we were a district that had a couple of double levy failures and they just before I started high school they were a five period day. Um, and they had just added the sixth period when I started high school. In fact, there was a whole conversation about me going to the high school that Elizabeth went because it was a private school and they offered a sixth period day. But anyway, so there weren't there weren't many options. Um, and I had done I was forced to do homeck. That was how old I am in middle in junior high. Hated >> home. >> Yeah. Um, so I I didn't take

010anything in the arts. Um I did take two languages. So I took both Japanese and Spanish. Um >> Japanese sounds expansive, right? >> It was it was um it was the time period where that was um the new language and ours was the first high school in Washington to offer Japanese. It was it was great. But as I've been sitting here stressing like why why didn't I take any electives? I think that's why I'm so passionate about making sure our kids have opportunities to explore and um because that I know what that's like when you don't have those options. >> Well, thank you for that, President Hayes. I um we've had we've had the opportunities for conversations, but I didn't know that you didn't have opportunities for electives in your experience. So, thank you. You

011know, I was just taking notes to look for themes. lots of of stretching and growing and exploration and leadership right between um you know the Shakespeare competition being TAs and it's just it's just lovely to hear the the commonality amongst you all. So thanks for sharing that. If uh we had more time there there'd be another one I'd have you but maybe next time. But so um I am here to talk about the board's role and best practices and how to be effective in gathering input for the work which is kind of community engagement right and um community and staff engagement. So um it was communicated to me that this topic has come up a lot. So, I thought we would have an opportunity and it's helpful when the board president doesn't have to facilitate

012a conversation but can also participate as well. So, I'm happy to again pay that forward. So, let's see. I got to turn this back on. I think it fell asleep. There it is. So, these are the topics and you'll have to forgive me. I didn't print out all my slides. So, I'm going to turn around. So, these are the topics that were communicated to me that would be really great for us to have time to talk about. The board's role in district committees. Oh my gosh, thank you. Um, the board's role in district committees, board members um interaction on social media, board members attending school and community events, board members advocacy on education or in general, as well as coordinating board member attendance at events. So these, you know, I was thinking of a ven

013diagram and community and staff engagement seemed to be where these all fell into. So it would be a helpful approach to start the conversation. Um the quote over that over on the side, does anyone recognize that where that's from? It's from the strategic plan. So I I'm so Well, it's from the four-page documents, the supporting. So right, this this is a conversation that's gone on for a long time and is really helpful to understand um why it's important. So we're going to talk about the theme here. Yes. So the interesting thing about this topic is that it's not just about community and staff engagement. It's first of all about the board as a trustee for the actual work of the district. the board's oversight and responsibility for the actual work that the district does, right?

014Um that's why you would want to hear from people, engage with people, right? Um and then it's there's actual the literal work if you go when you go to board boot camp, community engagement is one of the six major roles and responsibilities. the um board is the bridge to the community from the district and from the district back to the community. So it's um it is literally a responsibility of board members to do that. And so what I'm here to do is kind of help bring best practices and research and just a little bit of background um to talk about it. And then lastly, um there is always the fiduciary responsibility aspect of board service where amongst all the complexity and let's not forget is Northshore number seventh in size in the state now eighth

015right northshore is a large district. Um there's a lot of places and right for obviously we're gonna I'm going to mention OPMA quickly in a second but that's the most obvious one right like there are places where there could be um there could be consequences if a board were to inadvertently come a foul of the OPMA that would have repercussions on the health of the district in general. So you that always is a part. So while this is I'm doing this pretty well aren't I? I am. So, while we are going to talk about community engagement, I wanted to bring up the other two areas because that's a factor in the conversations. I promise I'm not going to be talking at you the whole time, but I just wanted this is the the um background

016and context to bring into it. Does this make sense? Or did I forget anything that might be at at you know come into um play when you're thinking about the board engaging because if so let me know because it's possible. Okay. So we are um before we're going to dive into again that list of questions let's talk I'm going to I did a little poking and research and I'm going to bring it to you. So, um, we're going to think about considerations, constraints, kind of environmental factors and best practices that play a part in how to think about the these overall questions we're going to think about. So, the first one is because I always have to bring a book. Um, there is this book called Schools Can't Do It Alone. This it was published

017in 2010. This is the copy I got in my first term on school board. Um, and it still stands up. Actually, I was going through it. um it still totally stands up. So there's a story behind here and I don't want to dive too much in this because again I'm talking at you too much. Um but if you want to read this, it's really super interesting. But the whole idea behind this book and why I wanted to use this to represent the fact I mean February 10th is a perfect example. You know the board cannot fulfill its mission without the support of the community. um and how Jamie Vulmer in this book words it this is a long quote but bear with me to get um the schools we need educators and their allies must

018initiate and maintain a positive conversation where the communities they serve with the communities they serve a conversation that one's on two tracks both ways right built to ensure maximum participation and maximum progress and then he he kind of said it a little bit more succinctly says the community has the final final word regarding the the design of their schools whether they come to any meeting or not. So, okay, this this one is is this one kind of obvious when you're thinking about engagement, right? Like having the community support and the relationship in order to keep um the mission going forward is really important. Um, and so I'm gonna check because we you see there's four puzzle pieces and again I'm trying to go through this fast so you all can start talking. But that one

019a little quick checkin or that maybe could learn want to learn some more or Amy went way too fast and we should slow down and talk about it a little bit more. Does this one make sense? Okay, thank you for helping me with that. Um, the next one is and I don't have a hard I don't have a hard copy. Oh, I'm going to geek out really bad here. You all wait. Okay. So there's a second factor I wanted to introduce you to because this is you know this is again pretty logical. This book has like all these first of all like there's so much in this book but it's this is what we've really studied and talked about and um really is a really um part of the conversation often. This one is not

020so much. So there's this book called New Power by Jeremy Hemans um and what it um talks about that came out in 2018. again a book that um really tracks post pandemic but the idea that now that we're so hyperconnected as people through the internet it's had actually repercussions on how um not only governmental entities but how um companies in general um exude power in their work. So if you think about it, what he called old power values are like your formal, you know, hierarchical governance. That's when you um might think about how to organize resources. Maybe you consolidate and hoard resources and old power value is things are um confidential. Maybe um there's separation between private entities and public entities. Um professionalism and specialization is really important. And then the last one is there's

021um long-term affiliation and loyalty. You think about, you know, when we went to school, how our families inherently would trust governmental institutions to and but weren't necessarily involved. Less participation in the old power values, but um right there was that trust there. So now there's what he calls new power values. Okay? So things are moreorked. You don't have as much hierarchical things are moreorked and so co-designing with your community, collaborating with your community is expected in our era today. Um radical transparency, not that you have, you know, all these um policies, you know, we again dating myself, you know, we would get paper Friday briefs and right like it was very if if the if the public wanted information about things, it wasn't very readily accessible. Um, today also it's very much a do-it-yourself, a

022DIY culture. So, people are ready to roll up their sleeves and become part of the solution instead of having perhaps things put on a plate for them. Um, and there's more overall participation, but more shortterm affiliation, if that makes sense. So this is a this is a stressor for a government entity like a schoolboard because it's built on governance structures that were designed in the 50s and updated after No Child Left Behind. But right and so um and the old like you need to do it. Uh if if we didn't follow transparency rules, the public wouldn't appreciate it. Some of the formality actually helps like the OPMA helps with transparency. Um but at the same time those old very hierarchical um power structures are something you know our community is engaged with. And let's be

023honest um they're the in the list of the white supremacist um cultural norms that a lot of our community does not interact with feel comfortable with or tend to marginalize a lot of our community. So it's a good thing but it's a tension that we have to deal with. Okay. So, so basically to sum up the board's role when you're thinking about this is that you have schools can't do it alone, but you have to find a way to keep people involved and build their trust um in a way that we didn't have to before. How did how was Amy's talking speed? Okay. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate you all. All right. So third, let's think about um being what happens with power dynamics since we are or some of us are elected officials, right?

024When um a school board member walks into a room, if you think about traditional power dynamics, has anyone ever heard of power dynamic theory? being an elected official walking into a room with these conversations. Um, a school board member has positional power because of being elected. they are the decision makers makers with budgets with programs um with a lot and the um and honestly too I'm going to say it in defense of our great superintendents it can also um the the fact that the superintendent job longevity is actually a responsibility of the school board and so staff is very sensitive to that um when schoolboard members interact with them so just I could get I don't have a book citation for this, but I have papers. It was just ugly to put on there, but

025the Thank you, director Sanderson. But um the basically what happens is when um someone and it could think of a CEO that might walk into like the Starbucks, right? Um when someone with really high positional power where it's asymmetric, um what can happen is people can become fearful of consequences if they do or say the wrong thing. Um they might actually do the opposite and really try to get approval. also as well. Um, and they might think that in that desire for approval um just if that person with positional power says something even if it's a brainstorm, they'll want to do it because, you know, again, they want that approval. They want the superintendent to to have a good job rating and all the things. So, that's actually at play with all of this as

026well. Okay. So this the school board's role in this is to try to balance again now we're building up three right we can't do it alone and also our staff are um really expecting to be more collaborative and co-designing as well in these new power structures and at the same time the fact remains the board is the elected in the room okay so how's Amy talking speed okay great this is the last one um just Let's just because we got to say it. We got to There's OPMA. There's the Public Records Retention Act, right? Um there's also the fact that the board only has authority legally as a unit. And think about um we could have a whole I could talk for an hour on these. Can you tell? But um think about also something

027else to talk about for an hour is the board's power dynamics as a unit, right? Like having trust amongst everyone here and the government team in general with the superintendent as well. Keeping that balanced is something to think about as well. And it's I just like to call that out because sometimes um that's easy to trip over that wire. Um and it can be something as simple as everyone having the same information. The no surprises rule is helpful because it keeps everyone on the same playing field. Okay, everyone sound good? And really you cannot you can do this and I will slow down. Okay. All right. So last thing because this is this is how governance happens. There are policies where the qu where the slide after this is that questions the list of questions

028by the way we are almost there. But so there are policies that touch on every single question that was brought up. So we can open these up and look at them and see how they talk about it. Policies by the way again let's not think old power. Let's think new and nimble. policies can be edited and improved upon and they should be they should not be written in stone. Um but these are the pre-existing ones and again they keep the team in balance because this they create a shared expectation. So we can look at these um whether it's talking about the board role in general individuals code of conduct um would it be helpful to look at them? I have them pulled up on my laptop or we're good. look at one or two that

029you think are most >> Okay, I'm going to go over here so that I can pull it up because I think that'll be easier. All right. We need a road map. All right. So, what maybe we'll do then, thank you for that feedback actually. Um, what could be helpful is we can um have these ready to go as we're talking about it because there might because basically what this does is help uh help give the roadmap for the status quo in case it's something that needs to be built upon. Okay, so let's do this. The first one on that list is about committees. There is a policy about advisory committees. So with um within the policy structure, how committees work within this and the school board's roles in committees is step um is written out

030in this B4 board advisory committee principles. So, what we can do is I will have this ready at the go, but then I can hop back to it if we want to. Okay, does that sound good? Would that be a good way of moving forward? Okay, so we're going to get this back up here. But it it's also just good to think about the policies because they're they're meant to be a they're meant to be a support. you know, governance is kind of a a weird sometimes confusing rule uh word rather um where governance structures and policies are supposed to support the work. They're not supposed to again be this thing we hold up and it uh ends um in and of themselves. So let's talk about this. So this is what I want us

031to think about. The prompts are let's think about what what we have today and what is working. And I think what I'm going to do is ask for volunteers to describe the approach to each of these as we go and then we can discuss what is working and what can be improved. Does that sound like a good way? Okay. So, let's talk about and I'm going to be taking notes because um if it's helpful I can bring back um some notes from the discussion today in case there's ongoing work that needs to get done. So, who can volunteer to tell me how it works today on the the board's role within district committees? And it might be helpful, Superintendent Irish, to give examples of some different district committees because I know there's some work being

032done clarifying because there's task forces and committees and all the things. >> Yeah. So one that is technically called a task force but but with the new definition is going to be changed to an advisory would be the um the uh no the uh boundary I always forget the name the EDTF which is no longer will be the EDTF it will be the EDA um the >> and so and and the acronym to director trans point the acronym stands for >> would be enrollment demographics advisory um we have the middle school advisory We have um the um curriculum and materials advisory. Yeah, there's several. So, those are some examples. >> Okay. Thank you. And so, who can describe the board's role in these advisory? I'm going to use the word committee because it's up there.

033The these advisory committees today, what what is the and I I could pull up the the policy, but it's just easier to talk, I think. Yes, which is fine. Which is which is totally fine. >> So, I guess I'll ask this question to prompt thinking. Um, currently on those three advisories that I just mentioned, what is your current role? Whether you're new or or a veteran board director, what are the what's your how what what's your role in understanding those advisories at this moment? Are you sitting on those advisory teams? Are you do you what do you how do you learn about those advisories? What's the what's the role? >> We know about them and we we get updates from them when appropriate. Um and um we do not participate actively in them. Um anybody

034else want to add anything? Yeah. So, I think it goes back to your puzzle pieces. When we're in the room, the power dynamic changes. So, we shouldn't be even brainstorming with them. We are there to listen um and learn from the advisory boards and we cannot make any decisions. So, that's the legal constraint. I'm just looking at your slide on my computer. We cannot make any decisions as a board member while we're present if we're present in those advisory or com committee groups. Okay. This right is is that enough of a picture on how to how it's working today and how how is it working today? So that's okay. So we've described the present state. What do y'all think? How's that going? present state. I I don't feel like we have gotten too many updates

035from advisory groups and task force. Um we've had a couple updates from some of them. There's the middle school and then there's also um there's one other wellness and safety, but outside of that, I'm not sure we've had updates. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I'll add that the um we're still in the process of and I I'll give a little update today so you'll have an access of the list of all of them um and the task forces. So you'll see them all today later in the in the agenda. And then um we are in I the board had requested a few months ago uh about minutes. Um the challenge to that right now is every committee does something slightly different and sometimes they don't take minutes. I learned um and so there's some management that

036we're working out and some kinks and structures that we're working out internally. So I would say um confidently that by next year this next cycle um we will have a system built which I'll explain later where there will be more regular updates and or as we build the study session agendas. That's something that we can always if there's something you want to dive deeper into like the middle school advisory that you just learned about, we could put those on the agendas to then dive deeper in. Um, you know, as long as we know way in advance, but that will be coming um forward. But as a new superintendent, I actually was struggling with understanding where what all the advisories were and task forces were and the definitions of them. And so it would make sense

037that you would be struggling too with that. So and if we think back to the ven diagram so again the board's responsibility right for the overall work of the district right the board's role in community staff engagement as well as um reducing risk minimizing risk um how it's working today are there any areas or impacts in those three circles where today's process for the board's role in advisory committees so this I'm trying to flesh out if there's anything else we need to talk about or any other wrinkles we want to think about. I >> I think to director Tren's point, we just don't have any idea what's happening in these advisory committees. We're not getting updates from them and so there's just not a lack of clarity as to what's happening. Um, and I thinking

038back to that co-design component, if there's co-designing happening, we're unaware of it and that as as you know, former board president, um, can spiral out of control and that can cause a lot of friction. So um I don't know if as this our understanding of what these committees are right now the onus is on us to say hey I haven't received a commit the committee minutes for this committee we have to remember who the committees are we would have to know when they're meeting to know that we haven't received it and so somehow if we can start getting that information about when they meet and then and then when there's a gap we would be like oh haven't seen that for a while until it becomes consistent because there was a point where they were

039consistent enough that you didn't have to wonder I haven't heard anything for a while but to your to that codeesign piece there is codeesigning happening in those and we don't know what it is so in your notebook right now in digital notebook there is a list of them all if you want to look at them um and we will be getting that system together for It also seems that like some people may know what happens to them because they're on the committees or they're friends with people on the committees, but then we don't know what's happening. And so then there can be conflict because we don't even know what they've been telling other people and now there's rumors going around, but we're the ones who are in charge of like telling them the truth, but

040we don't know what their truth was to begin with. So, it's a communication problem if we don't know what they're saying or possibly sharing with others. Absolutely. And and do I hear you you're saying, Director Sanderson, that um what might be helpful information, not just minutes, but for example, if there is co-designing being happening and a neighbor you bump into in the grocery store happens to hear about some of this code-designing, that might it might be a proposed solution. It might still be in the brainstorming phase. So having context around the not just the conversations themselves but am I I'm hearing an implied um desire to understand where in the work the conversations are happening as well. probably what I'm I mean what I a situation I could envision for this is that um we're

041looking at redistricting schools for some for some reason like we have a population change or something that we need to move people around and if they're having this work done and discussing like which schools might if a school is going to close or a school is going to get more students or people are going to move and people are hearing about that from them but we don't even know to be able to like address or say yes we're going going to do that sort of thing. No, we're not going to do that sort of thing. Um, it's not good for the community to believe that we don't know what we're doing and they need to update us so that we do know what's going on so that we can actually answer those questions and keep

042confidence and keep them wanting to engage with us. >> So, yeah, again, I I think I think I am hearing what you're saying and thank you for that additional context. So again, not just the conversations conversations, but the context of the conversations like the overall big problem statements that might be being processed in there as well. Yeah. >> Okay. I think can I add some tension to that? I think what some of the tension around that is um there are if you look at that list there are way more than 10, right? So, it's it's even for me as the CEO of the organization to have an in-depth knowledge of all of these is not is not reasonable. Um, for you to have an in-depth knowledge of all of these is not reasonable. So, when

043questions come from the community or when a question comes from a staff, I'm out at a school and a staff member says, "What's going on with the enrollment and demographics task force? I'm I hear this rumor." Like, oh, that's good to know. I will get back to you or I will have Dre Ralph who runs that facil that meeting get back to you. Um, and so then I send that and I have the expert in the room get back in touch with that person. But I don't need to necessarily always be nor do you as a board director need to always be the expert in sharing the information. And in fact, if I tried to be the expert in all of these areas, I might mess it up or say something that is inaccurate that's

044going to create a kurfuffle at the next meeting because something came back that I misinterpreted. Um, and it could also be a kurfuffle if you as a board director say something that you interpreted but isn't actual fact where you don't have the full context. So it's in these types of situations what would be helpful for me as the superintendent is for you to have an understanding of the goals of the particular advisory for you to be able to talk in the big picture the vision of the work that's being done and and um but if if a community member or a staff member asks you a question to refer that question back to the to me so that I can get it to the appropriate staff member so that the full complete context and answer

045can be provided and then of course due to our protocols which I think is really helpful we would and include the whole board into that communication so you're aware of the followup and the loop closing is that >> is that because there's a there thank you for that you know both context and and a a helpful point about it's I don't know if anyone again seventh largest in the state if anyone could have all the data in their head at the same time so um good to um pause and seek more information and do I also hear a process already outlined to for board members to be able to do that is and everyone understand what to if you get a question you're not sure the answer of reach out to the superintendent. >> I

046thought we had a decision didn't we have a decision tree or guidance I that was floating around at one point when you were on the board too >> the flowchart the >> the agenda the agenda setting flowchart. Yeah. >> Oh that was the agenda. Okay. All right. >> Yeah. Or and there was a flowchart that I I shared um about the constituent when a constituent asks a question. >> That was it. >> Yeah. So, so having that handy, would that be helpful? >> Yeah, we could re reshare that. >> Yeah. >> Did you have a question, Director Sanders? And I do hear loud and clear and agree that we need to have minutes that and those need to be consistent and that you will be getting those. Just please have some patience with me as

047I'm trying to clean and and and create some expectations around that. I I just think I the other thing that I'm hearing out of this too is that when when I was on the high parents council when we had new members come on we would tell them that it is okay if you don't know the answer to a question just get get the question and then bring it to the council and then somebody who's more experienced may know the answer and can share it with you to share back to them. Um and that's okay like it's okay to just say hey I'm not sure of the details of that right now. can you just like jot it down on this piece of paper or let me take a note about what exactly it is um

048that you have a question about and give me some contact information so I can get back to you >> and and actually I think that's a great great tip is so something that even though board members are not because you can't clone yourself although President Hayes comes really close but you know you can't be in all of these advisory committees anyways right and so um that cycle that you just mentioned director Sanderson about getting the question, letting folks know, you know, your neighbor know the process either if sometimes it's helpful to just to pivot them back to their own building principle. Sometimes you'll you'll be helping to connect them to the superintendent, but then give it a week or so and just say, "Oh, was your question answered?" So that way you're not inserting yourself

049in the process, but you're still um still keeping that communication open, doing that two-way communication with the community. very helpful practice. What do we think about committees advisories? And I'll just put a final just a understanding of these advisory. They're advisories to the superintendent. And so all of these have a staff member assigned to them. And so to uh Amy's point, I'm really having a hard time letting go of the title. Um that um when you walk in even just sitting in the back listening, there's a staff member who you're the boss of their boss and it's very hard for them to not be constantly checking your facial expressions and interpreting. And so it's just really best not to even attend these advisory committee meetings. And once we get the minutes consistently, then we can

050feel okay every all of us are hearing the same information. We're getting the information. I know what's going on. And then and it'll help us relax. >> It's the same for me when I walk into the room as the superintendent. In many ways, I could undermine my staff member who is leading that because the staff or community members will refer to me, defer to me when they're saying comments or they will be. So then and they surpass the person facilitating because of my positional authority. So I don't even go to these um unless I'm invited for a specific purpose um or I'm or if it's a brand new one and I'm welcoming people and you know helping out. So that's that positional authority works for me as well. Okay. And if it's helpful an example

051of of this process, I would like to use the um ethnic studies curriculum development within Northshore where the the school district sponsored the work. Um it was aligned with the strategic plan which the school board sets and monitors against and then off went the advisory committee and then um when the work was processed there was a meeting in this room where all the materials were shown and schoolboard members were walking around with community members interacting with everything you know still being very well kept involved in the process but the kickoff the middle and then the end you know with check it there of course check-ins in between and study sessions, but I it just occurred to me that's a helpful example of a committee where the wheels were moving pretty smooth with the board kind

052of around in a supportive circle. Okay, that one was really tough too, the transition like just sharing the story. So, in case any new schoolboard members have a tough time transitioning from like knowing all of the content, I served on the ethnic studies committee and as soon as I came on the board, I was not going to any of the meetings anymore and I was not to like go and ask, hey, how's that going? Or anything like that or interfere. And that was really difficult, but it was it was necessary because we have this term in the corporate world called Hippo. The highest paid person in the room gets to make the decision whether or not they know it and whether or not the group realizes that that's what's happening. Hippo, I may have to

053borrow that. >> Don't want to You don't want to be at the hippo. >> Be the hippo. >> Well, it does. It offsets the balance. Okay. Yeah, Director Kelly. I >> I think I just need some clarifying questions on like I seem to be the only person that might need this clarifying question, but like >> what are we doing? Are we just because at some points this feels like it's informative like we're being taught? Are we just taking in information? especially me as a new board member like some of this is clarification or are we discussing like thank you for that context and now we're having a greater discussion about how we want to move forward with it like I'm just kind of a little bit confused about um what exactly we're doing in like

054Yes. Yeah. Like like I I have looked at everything I I I see I see our policies. I see we have interrelated questions to consider that have no question marks and I'm I'm going to try not to harp on that. Um, and I I've looked through all of this, but I just I are we are we just are we just chatting or like are we are we trying to come to like conclusions or like I I'm >> I'm confused. >> I'm I'm loving a good road map. So my understanding of what's happening is that there are a core number of RBs or PO um board best that are that were written based on laws and best practices. We are a new team. Every time you have a new team you have to create new um

055a new formation, right? And so what we're doing tonight is looking at some of these that are around communication amongst ourselves, with staff, with community, and say, "Okay, here's what we've done in the past. Some of this is based in law, and we don't have any flexibility, but some of it we do. Does this still work for us?" Um, what do folks have ideas? So I'll I'll kind of summarize what's just happened as we've talked about these advisory committies. It's hard to picture because they're still in a state of flux what they are. If you've never been on one before coming onto the board, it's hard to picture what they are and why would I even care what what my role is because I've never been to a meeting. And so it's but we do

056have board two board members that have joined the board after being on some of these advisory committees. And so learning how to separate, learning how to step away and the why that you need to do that it takes it takes a bit. Okay, that's helpful context because I when the question was asked like what is our role? I thought we don't have one. So, I'm confused and I'm just gonna listen because I don't understand what we're talking about. Um, because I have been on advisory board, but like I wasn't on one with board members or superintendent. It was, you know, teachers or teachers with parents and things like that. So, um, that's helpful context because I was like, I don't understand what we're talking about because there's a policy that says we're not um, we're

057not part of it. So, what are we talking about? Because we're not part of it. I'm just Well, and and I um I want to thank you for that. Honestly, the clarity is really really helpful because to add on to what President Hayes says as well. Again, new team and and new circumstances. Things are always evolving. And so, it's good to talk about it, but it's also good to check it, you know, and thank you, OPMA. Other people might have brought questions on the board to the board president and to the superintendent that the rest of the board hasn't heard because then it would be a quorum and then it's kind of weird. So some of these topics might be brought and I don't know I I am not on the board so I don't

058know it's not uncommon for topics to come up in a board retreat that not everyone has heard raised to the surface before just because of OPMA. >> Okay. >> I'm so sorry we're having to take time for this. I feel like it must be a slow processor, but >> okay. So, these interrelated questions without question marks are things that um those of us on the board may have mentioned and we wanted a space for us to like review what is our policy and or what is the law and then maybe talk about like our position on it if there's flexibility within it. >> Yes. >> Correct. >> Okay. And thank you. I'm thank you for going on this journey for me. I've arrived at the destination and I appreciate I appreciate you all getting back

059on the train still on it wondering going in circles. >> We had a board member years ago was like I need a road map. I need me a road map. I need to know where I'm going. So, I totally appreciate it. And part of this is also there are um these are best some of this is best practices and we've learned the hard way as the board that why they are best practices and so also trying to make sure that we are preventing some of the um catastrophes that have happened in the past. So, I'll just tell a brief story. I was we used to have board members on the advisory committees for upcoming levies and bonds. So somebody sat on the enrollment demographics task force, someone sat on the capital t capital projects task

060force. I was assigned to the technology advisory committee as they were writing the tech levy to bring to the board. And I was in the room and they were talking about something and I was kind of excited because I understood the technology component they were talking about. And so I smiled and then the next thing I know the superintendent is calling me saying why did you approve this being put in the technology loving I what anyway so it it's the power of I call it the crown of the schoolboard member you just can't take it off and so it can and then we had to unwind that that was really not pleasant >> but yes context is helpful So thank you for that. Thank you for asking us for the road map. It's important and

061you know and this is I am a consultant right and I um don't take for granted I don't necessarily know all the conversations as well. So by you asking me the question I can slow down a little bit too. So thank you. Anything else on committees? Okay. So the next question without a question it's actually it's a topic maybe more than a question but um board members interactions on social media um this is a topic that has risen to the surface and so who would anyone like to provide the initial context of kind of where the board's practices are right now in terms of interacting on social media whether it be about school district topics or not. Anyone want to take a stab at that? I read what they say and I don't respond to

062any of it. Just I read it to like take a temperature to see what people are talking about, what issues they're worried about, but then I bite my tongue and tell my husband what I would like to say if I need to tell anyone. >> So when when seeing I'm just going to reflect back. So when seeing a topic around school district whatever um the um the practice that you are given an example of is for board members not to interact on social media. Any idea why that might be the practice >> so we don't accidentally have quorum. Yeah, that's one. There's more. Another re Oh, go ahead. Vice President SOCK. >> Thank you. Um, as a board member, we do not individually make decisions about anything. And so, if you have a comment that

063could be interpreted as a decision, that can lead to problems. um because you could be promising something or saying something that is interpreted as a promise to someone that is unable to be unable to happen. Um, and also you might be saying a position that is not something that has been voted on. And um, you know, uh, our our board when we vote on something, we're supporting it. And even if you voted not in favor of it because it is passed, then that is something that we're supporting. So, um, unfortunately on social media, you don't really get to have your own opinion. um especially when there's topics around school board or school related things. I personally have many years ago locked down all of my social media because of you know reasons but particularly once

064on school at the school board there's not a lot of action from me because of things like that. I don't want my words to be interpreted incorrectly. So I I'm hearing so there's um the idea I'm just again I'm reflecting back the idea that the board um only has authority as a body so the individual talking about a topic gets wrinkly but also there might be unintended consequences for stating okay thank you for that I can think of another one if anyone wants to try another one it's grounded in law if that helps not the OPMA Okay. The public records retention act. So anytime you know that's part of the right the training from the lawyer like even on your phone if you text a message about school district about Northshore business it can be

065recoverable through a public records request. Same thing with a comment on social media. So that if because of that um that's another reason why talking about and it's the let's just say there's the OPMA and there's the public record open public meetings act no acronyms um public records retention act and also how the courts have interpreted them they've interpreted them super super strict you'd be surprised how strict and so um even um talking about anything educational wise it happens to be a topic that someone does a public records request on. Even if it isn't a specific Northshore topic, it is recoverable by law because the courts are so strict about the the public records request process. So that's another reason why um it's um especially because pages like on Facebook can be private and then

066the whole community can't see it and then it then it's definitely an OPMA issue. Superintendent. So obviously without calling any other district out um there are practices that other districts use that might not be following a kind of our practice here um because I' I see it as superintendent as I'm looking at other school districts and I see board directors saying things individually about school district business on their Facebook account or whatever. Um so it does happen. Correct. Um, and as a result of that happening, it it can lead to dysfunction on the team. Is that kind of what I'm hearing you say? >> Yes. And risk for the district. >> Yeah. And all of this we it feels like you join the board and you give up your freedom of speech, right? Your first

067amendment rights. And you don't. You absolutely can say whatever, wherever, but there are consequences. And so we as a board in the past and so that's why we're doing this tonight is just to check in the consequences seem pretty dramatic, right? It can result in a lawsuit. It can result in the overturning of a blonder levy election. It can result in some pretty nasty >> Yeah, that was that's true example. It can result in some pretty nasty public records requests that cost the district hundreds of thousands of dollars. Um, it can result in confusion. It can result in in community members being upset and angry and that also is based on examples. So that's just in the past the board has made a dec a group decision that you know what we're just not going

068to engage in social media. Um, I mean certainly if we're all in a knitting club, fine, Carson. Um, and we talk about best yarns and which stores have the best. That's okay. But, um, we've just made anything that might tangentally be related to our work. That's so that's and so we're just touching base tonight. Okay. Where how are we doing? Where are we at on this? What are our thoughts? Can I add one more context to this? So, there's this is about um a board director posting something on social media or making a comment about school district business. What if it's not about school district business? What it's about your own personal beliefs or your or political um um ideology or thoughts or advocacy that's not related to the school business? What what what are

069the >> I would ask the board. What does the board think about that given the um recent example at a high school? I would say that that's still tricky. >> I think it's hard at this point given the impact of decisions at the state and federal level to and even local levels to separate out comment again where to buy the best yarn. I think you're fine. But I think um a decision at the federal level around um the department of agriculture or the department of education, we receive funding from them. It it would be really hard to the line gets pretty blurry. And so, you know, best puppies, I think totally fine. You know, what are the best dogs that have have at it? Um, >> I'm trying to think of another political topic that

070might be an example and if anyone wants to Yeah. hop in because there's lots of shades of gray here. I think I want to go back to what I was saying before at my confusion because um the way that this conversation is being run, it doesn't feel like it is an open conversation about where do we sit, but here is the expectation and we're setting it and it's not really opening the door for people who might not agree to be able to have an open disagreement. Um because up to this point it has all been this is what we do and this is why we do it. And it kind of to me feels like like h how do you step in and say differently? Um so I I just want to mention that in

071this conversation I personally feel like we're starting at the end instead of the beginning instead of opening like how are we how are we feeling about this topic? What are our needs? Is there anything anyone wants to express? Um, and then having that conversation that moves towards like here's what's been done in the past or here's why we're we're kind of starting with like this is how it's done and I don't know how that enables us to have that conver you know conversation. Um, and what I I I want to express in that conversation and and I'm I I may be the reason that this is on here, um, is that I have been a public-f facing person for a number of years. I had a podcast um my social media is open um to

072the public and I did not know when I ran for this position and was elected that I would feel that there was a moratorum on me being able to engage with the community at large. not necessarily the Northshore community about Northshore School District, but just like in general being able to continue to be a public-f facing person and advocating. And when I look at other elected officials in other capacities, they still have that voice, you know, like they are not considered voting as a board when they express something as an individual. um because they're not in session. Um, and they're not like we are not we're not holding our legislators and saying like well well you've just made this decision and therefore it you voted on you know like but it does give people the

073ability to know like where do the people who they have voted stand on the issues that matter to them and are we supporting communities who might right now feel like they are at a disadvantage and And I worry that trying to stay out of the limelight also doesn't allow for those groups to feel like we're in their corner and we are we are supporting them, you know, like we're too too much of a poker face can also allow people to fill in the gaps in other ways. Um, so personally I'm feeling like um the policy has put like sort of a a gag order on me that I'm I'm having a lot of difficulty in my just like who I am as a person and how I operate in my daily life like navigating. >>

074And really quickly, Director Ch, I just wanted to say thank you, Director Kelly, for for being willing to to say that. Um I think that um there's a lot of a lot of details around schoolboard service that um the fire hose is real is what I'm trying to say. So but I wanted to say thank you for your willingness to to say that. So yeah, Director Tran, >> I'm looking at the puzzle pieces here and there's this piece for modern power dynamics and whether or not this topic fits into it. When we think about school districts and school boards modernizing, part of it is some of the public facing, some of the power does lie within social media. That is a new tool for folks to use to do whatever they wish like express themselves

075or um make sure that people are in their corner or it's it's just a tool, right? And with the direction of the school board and where it's going, um, a lot of us are working parents, we have day jobs, we connect with community members in different ways. Maybe it's a podcast, maybe it's being online, maybe it's being part of a community group online. It's different ways of connecting with communities. And if our role as school board directors is to be in community, that is one realm and that is uh whether it's shrinking, growing, whatever it it's a existing space where community is in. Um, so I I empathize with what you're going through and have struggled myself with what's uh, you know, respecting school board social norms is what I'll call them cuz this isn't

076like a policy. It's not a legality. There are some legal hooks that some folks brought up, but it's not a legality where we're saying no social media or else, right, you're off the school board. It's more about there are consequences. Um, so I'm wondering if there's if there's any space to consider social media as a tool, um, but also have some social norms around it, right? >> See if anyone >> Yeah, absolutely. And I apologize. I was trying to um create that space that this is this is our time to have this conversation of where do we want to be and and how do we want to operate and because I was I had this a we were having this conversation our vision of elected officials because of the death of local news is state

077legislature and congress that's how we view what it means to be an elected official. So, we see how they operate. But the reality is the vast majority of governance in this country is done in city councils and county councils and boards. And our rules are very different when we're one of five or seven versus one of 150 or one of 500. And so those OPMA laws get triggered at three instead of 50. And in fact, the OPMA laws don't apply to the state legislature. They didn't apply the rules to themselves. So that we can have that conversation later. Um, but that's why they have much more freedoms to say what they want to say without consequences because the OPMA does not apply to them. But it does to us. And so that's one that we

078just have to be aware that if it three of us are on the same site or in anywhere near it can trigger um an a finding from the state auditor that we have had a meeting, not everybody knew about it, not everybody was made sure aware of it and bad things happened and that has happened. Um so that um just to help understand why it appears that some elected officials get to say whatever they want to say and we it feels like we don't. It's because we have different rules applied to us and that's irritating. You can say, "I am still going to do my podcast. I'm going to still do these and that's fine." And then we all are on notice. Don't join Kimberly's podcast. Don't watch them. Don't go to her sites. And

079we just know um Director Tran has really struggled to balance her her role on the human rights commission and being able to having to do that work and say what she needs to say for that work and being on a board and there have been consequences. Unfortunately, I don't agree that they were consequences. They shouldn't have been, but they were right. We become then in the the board. it gets reflected back on us things that director Tron says in her work outside of the district and that's it it's not right but there it is and so it's just letting everyone know there will be consequences of things you say it will get be it will be applied to all of us rightly or wrongly it will become the Northshore board said X and so just

080making sure you're aware that that is going to happen unfortunately. >> I have a thought um and then and then I'd love because I'm thinking this might help the conversation. I I want the I think the conversation should be going and I'm cognizant of the time. I am just a facilitator. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I can you all own the agenda. I do not. I will keep going until you tell me not to. Um but I wonder if it wouldn't help to talk about this in layers. So, it strikes me I've heard examples of very specific Northshore topics versus education topics in general versus other topics. Okay? And unfortunately, the other topics um the temperature level on those is outside the control of the people in this room set perhaps by folks on the other

081side of the country. Um, and I just want to acknowledge that that the temperature on that one is not controlled by folks in this room and therefore bearing responsibility is tricky, but um, would it be helpful and and I want to let you go if you want to add on. I was just trying to think of a way to help us kind of structure how we want to um, attack this. >> Um, I mean I do think that's true that there is sort of like layers of um, maybe like proximity to Northshore. Um, and I also think that in times we might be talking about different spaces like I understand within a Northshore Facebook group our comments then becoming quorum. My personal hardship is on my personal page, on my feed that says these are

082my personal opinions. That that has been messaged to me that I do not have the freedom to speak there. Um and that there I am I could be told that I am making decisions for the board. Um, and so I'm trying to I'm trying to understand um, in the world we live in with the leadership we currently have executively, h the type of speaking power that some people seems to have despite being elected versus the speaking power I'm being told I have, which sounds like is now zero. Um, because everything everything relates to education. There is nothing that can't be made an argument that it relates to education in some way, shape or form and personally I'm also in education. So that mean like I go and I speak I I spoke in Berlin about

083educ. So when I the next time I do that I'm speaking as a Northshore school board member even though I'm actually there for my job or I'm there as a personal consultant. like I I need to be able to speak about education and it to be Kimberly Kelly and not director Kelly. It is also my career and it is also my income and and having a social media presence is part of that public facing where people know where I stand and then can decide whether want or not they want to be a part of my other work, you know, and I might argue might be why I was elected because people knew exactly where I stood. >> Thank you. So, I'm going to um encourage the director so and director Tron because I know this

084is director Soot is also in education and in her um paid job. Um and so that's also a balance that you've had to work on is how to speak and advocate for the work that you do in education. Um and certainly director Tron, if you can share your experiences and what where you're at with that and um just kind of share that background >> if you choose. >> Um all right. So my experience I I will start with this though. I will say that if you are already public-f facing and you have made your stances known and you did not get the attention of particular groups of people who oppose your view, then you haven't done your job. So there's there's that mindset. Um there's also the mindset of the consequences that President Hayes brought

085up. And to me, it's a balance of what type of risk we want to take and how much we bring the community into this kurfuffle. My experience is I heavily leaned on social media for probably years before running for the board. I had no intentions of running for the board until um that's another story until recruited. So the and I was a human rights commissioner already. Um and so the work within that particular commission deals with global as well as national and state challenges. um and dynamics that that are very very difficult to navigate within community various communities. Um and so becoming a target of that is something that I accepted as a consequence. I didn't view it as a consequence. It was just something that I accepted and it told me that I was

086on the right track, right? Doing the work. so that um community members or communities that were marginalized would have a better chance or better shot at having their basic human rights recognized. Um, so it's more of a personal question of how do how do we want how riskaverse are we um as an individual and then asking the question of how does this then affect the rest of the community now that I am on the board. Um, I don't know if that's what you kind of wanted me to share. Um >> yes an and then you know Northshore ended up in the news ends up >> you know getting nasty emails and again >> not >> I would just caution us to separate what's in our control and what's not in our >> absolutely and that's

087what I'm saying and so you've had to wrestle with >> speaking your your um truth truth and understanding that that that the whole board will unfortunately not rightly but we will have to deal with the consequences. We will end up on radio talk shows. We will end up getting emails. And so it's just a balancing act. just raising awareness that that is a potential that um and so and there are communities in our district that were not happy with some of the things you said and we've still and that's just that is the balance of this world that we're in that social media reaches everyone and people will see what you say and some people won't like it. And as much as we would love to be able to say this is Director HR, human

088rights commissioner speaking, the ones that don't like it don't separate unfortunately. >> Yeah. And I go back to the question of consequence and what the district would have to deal with, right? Um, I think unfortunately, at least in my case, this probably would have happened anyway because all that stuff existed before time on board. Um, and so it's a question of how do we prepare the district for the inevitable because that that just seems to be the case with me. >> Yeah. >> And um, am I correct in hearing? I don't um I don't hear a debate on the topics per se, but the space in which they're engaged and the so and this is me helping to understand President Hayes. So, um, just again I'm I'm thinking of a way to to get us

089to a point where we can think about just topics on on Northshore business within social media. So, we're talking a specific topic in a specific space. So, um, to to be able to get to the point where we can talk about because the important part is not necessarily yesterday, but tomorrow as a board, right? the the important part is that everyone um is comfortable um with the conversation and can support it forward. Right. So, um I I think that and again, please let me know. Um, anyone let me know if I'm misinterpreting because I think I heard a concern, Director Kelly, that it's um it's uh and I don't want to error in restating your words, so I'm trying to remember exactly, but you know, a concern over the ability to to express opinions on

090educational topics, whether or not they have to interact. um and the the specific forum is something that you'd like to talk about. So because I think I heard a broader conversation with the example with director Tran I for I'm trying to weave everything together to help us but um because there are forums like radio hosts that were brought up that are again outside our control as a first as opposed to things inside our control. So, that's what I think would be helpful to talk about because we can't always um manage how people react to how there's been stances the Northshore School Board has taken in general that has elicited responses, right? So, as an individual, perhaps the conversation would be as an individual board member um on social media talking about a topic before the

091board, work being discussed before a board, maybe if we just stick to that first and then we can layer on top of that. Would that be a helpful approach? You think so? I mean, I I think it's important to recognize everything everyone's bringing in here. Um, but it's very expansive, right? And so maybe starting at the tip of the funnel and then going wider first because otherwise the shades of gray can be very overwhelming. Um, because the intent is you all are serving the community, right? And I know you all want to honor that. >> I think part of the challenge in this is that if we didn't individually have some sort of interest in education, we wouldn't be here. And so it's really hard to not be able to share what it was that

092brought you to this space anymore once you get to this space. And sometimes the things that brought you to this space are related to your own personal family. And so how you follow up with those issues as they affect your kids can be seen differently even though it's like this is what I want for my kids. Um, and how do I learn what's happening in my kids' school in ways that don't undermine other work that's happening? Right. That a point about being effective. Right. Right. That's a good question. So, and so let's think about this. as a as an effective school board, say in the year 2027, 2028, you know, as an effective school board, what would we want the adjectives to describe our community engagement around the work of Northshore? What would be that

093desired end state in 2027? We'd like people to be able to describe. I think um to be open, to be compassionate, um to listen to all viewpoints, whether we come down with this decision that matches all viewpoints is not always possible because they're often opposing. Um but to be known as hearing them all, understanding them all, and then trying to make the best choice for most. >> Thank you, Director Sanderson. Anyone else? I think one of the things I think about is having a community that's active >> um and communicative and um feels safe to share their viewpoint >> um in the presence of the board or you know with the community. So those are the things I think about. Thank you. So I hear open, compassionate, hearing all viewpoints, communicative, safe. Anything else? I

094think the community would benefit from knowing that we are transparent as well and that we do actually care about every single person despite certain perspectives. transparent and caring. Okay. Any other adjectives for our our ideal state for community and staff engagement in 2027? Just as to throw a date out. >> Honest and authentic came to me too when we're thinking about like how we reflect our own personal values when we're >> talking to people too. >> Honest and authentic. Thank you. I was trying to think of a phrase from back in my um years in high school and I couldn't think of the actual phrase but something along the lines of that like uh people trust that we have the best of intentions um that even when decisions are made that people think, hm, there

095must have been a good reason for that >> because our board is always on our side uh and on the side of inclusion and on the side of making sure that our students and our staff and our community is getting what it needs. Um, and I don't know how to put that in one adjective, so >> it's all good. >> Apologies. >> I think also closely related to that in an instance for me was tied to it is the belief that if we find that what we chose is hurting people more than it's helping that we would change it that we wouldn't just stay the path >> responsive okay inclusive responsive trusting intentions which implies understanding intentions okay so any anyone else have anything to add to that it's a great list okay please correct

096me if this is not a good example Say in 2027 there's hypothetically a shift in how middle school grades how learning happens there. I got to be honest I didn't watch your study session. I don't know any details but I know a conversation happens. So I'm just going to pick that. So say in 2027 something has happened and um improvements you know there's been a process information has come has been churned information has come to the board whatever the decision-m process is a change is about to happen okay so if we're thinking about open compassionate hearing and honoring viewpoints communicative safe transparent caring honest and authentic trusting after understanding they can understand our intentions inclusive and responsive. If if that is the desired state for community engagement with the board, what would that look like

097when that change in middle school happens? What do you think that would look like? Because this isn't just a social media question if you think about it. Some of it is truly looking at the data of how it affects all students, not just the target ones, because um choices often have unintended consequences on other parts of the population. And so taking all of them into account um when we benchmark to see if it is is it having the intended um effect, is it also having intent unintended effects? Um and sharing that. And if we see a point where we need to make a change, we need to be as clear in our communication to parents about why we are shifting plans as we were when we convinced them that the plan we had first was

098the best thing to do. >> Because when when my kid moved to middle school years ago, there were we're doing this, we're doing that, we're doing that. And then three years in, middle schools changed. And I'm like, why are you not doing the things that you told me were so key for my next kid? So there um thank you for that. There's questions in there about process coming to the right decision. So you know using the ethnic studies curriculum development as an example. So say that long process has happened and all those conversations have happened and it's we're at the point where it's time the shift is you know and everything has lined up the way it needs to lined up. Awesome. So yes and I heard and I'm hearing we so thank you for

099the we right whether we as you know the team here on everyone here at the table with the superintendent and with Peggy as well um how how do you think if we're going to think about these adjectives of how we would want it to go what might that look like and various levels of experience I think are helpful here because there's not a perfect answer. Let me give examples. There are different spaces. There's not just social media. There's this space where board members communicate. There are communications done on behalf of the board by the communications department. There are liaons out in the that the board takes out into other um formal or not formal to other community members. Okay. So, how if there's a change getting made at middle school, how would we like it

100to look in terms of engaging with the community about that? What would what is the desired ideal? And I'm not saying we're not making a a huge list for executive director Campbell and her team. I'm just talking because then it again it'll help us get to what our ideal is because social media plugs into all of that. So I'm going to I'm going to remove us from social media for a minute because that question is bigger than social media. And the thing that I've observed, not just within the Northshore School District, but just all around in general, is meeting the community where they're physically at and where they're spending the mo the most of their time, which has been a challenge for Northshore. And it's a code that we we have an opportunity to improve

101upon um a code to crack. Beyond that, I think the communications that we're having sometimes pe like people didn't even I talk with neighbors and they don't even know bond and levy is happening for example, right? So, it's understanding where they're spending a lot of their eyeball time. Um whether it's on screen, social media, news, whatever local, we don't really have strong local news, but whatever news source they are using, that's that's where we need to be. And it's not just being there, but it's also getting their attention. So, getting creative about the format, right? Um, like we were talking about the levies and the bond and like how there was low engagement on some of the social media that the excellent material that you were putting out and the community was putting out, but

102maybe that's not what the community is looking for. Maybe that's not where they're spending their time, >> right? And thank you for that. I might have made this question too broad because it the the question I want us to help with is by having a little case study around what might be communicated on social media. Thinking of it within the whole ecosystem of board work might help us because I'm wondering if the question about social media is um too abstract and maybe having a little case study would be helpful >> related to going to where people are. I think also soliciting groups that don't necessarily feel involved in schools has been really critical in getting better um feedback um to get to know groups that we don't traditionally hear from but are very important as

103well. Um, and giving them their own space makes it feel safer because they probably feel that other people in their inroup can at least relate to what they want to share >> and not judge it. Um, >> yeah. No, no, super helpful. I think that's that's important and it's probably around so P6 is the relationships with staff, families, community. that policy is wrapped into this and that's part of that conversation. I'm going to narrow it even more. So, say the decision has been made, right? What would the board, what would you all use the term we, not me, we like to have as an option for board members to be able to communicate about that decision. So, because social media could be part of that or not, there could be, right? like so what would

104what is what would the board like as a practice communicating around a decision like that because that's just a finite point and then maybe we could we could get a little broader. So for example we Yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead, Director Kelly. I mean, I I think that speaks to a bigger question because right now our our policy is that all communication goes to the board president. So essentially what you're saying is do we put Sandy on social media to communicate all things because the rest of us cannot, right? Like that's how I understand this question because as that policy exists currently, >> we would not be individually communicating that whether we have a social media presence as Director Kelly or as Kimberly Kelly. Um I I don't know that I have a strong

105opinion on that currently. Um, I think that director Tran makes a good point about um the ways in which we're communicating with the community may not be the places that they exist to take in that information. And so there there probably could be an ideal world in which we maybe move us more towards a public-f facing director position in these spaces. much like Superintendent Irish has a presence and I I mean you would have to speak on like how much engagement you're getting, but I'm sure seeing it. Um, and I'm noticing it and I'm sure even if people aren't necessarily sharing or clicking, the people that care are watching. Um and and so I think that there is a larger conversation we'd need to have around like do we continue to have that policy or

106does the board president now end up being like a a board social media um representative, >> right? There have been examples like for example in the year of the big budget cut the board president did sit at a table like this ask for everyone's input and then published a letter on the website about the budget situation. So there are past examples where the board president because the the board president role and feel free to correct me um if this is not current practice President Hayes but the board's president's role is to act as a spokesperson for the entire board not for the board president. So um but in instances where the board did want to communicate very specifically that there is a process there for that um and it and it has been done. now

107where it goes or what have you. Um but let me just say so you brought up the policy around the board um president being the spokesperson for the board. Um, if that is a topic, we don't have time for today, but I'm going to put that in the parking lot. If that's something the board wants to revisit as a policy, the board as a body can choose to talk about that. So, that, you know, that that's would be a process for for working through that question that you've brought up, Director Kelly, if that's helpful. >> Yeah. I mean, and to qu to clarify, I'm not trying to challenge that practice. I'm just saying in the question of social media in the context of the case study that you're using. >> Yes. >> That's the only

108avenue currently. >> Um and I understand why you pursued that case study. I I understand and am happy to comply with an expectation where and our personal um communications with the public that we are not discussing Northshore things because we don't want to overstep the bounds of respecting that um we don't speak for the board and that if someone does speak for the board it is like you exampled very carefully y thought out and then communicated by our very specifically chosen um chosen president. Um the the place in where I brought this question was that things that are not directly tied to a decision in Northshore or that we are talking about Northshore will always still be adjacent to education. If I want to talk about immigration that's related to education. If I want to

109talk about homelessness, poverty, people who are not getting enough food, um the way that um Medicaid is being affect like all of these things, anyone can start to connect back to Northshore and our students. Like I I guess I'm asking for there to be a conversation like where can we find a reasonable place where like you still have the ability to speak on issues like human rights and not be told well somebody might think that you're specifically talking about this group in Northshore and so therefore you can't speak on it. Like I I think that it's important that we one can have our voice, but two that there are community members either in our our local community or beyond um who want to know where we stand as an individual. And I know before I

110was elected, I tried to figure out where each person stood on the board just so I knew like what kind of board do we have? What kind of decisions are going to be made? like what are we looking at four, eight, 10 years down the line for my own son. So I know that people are trying to do that PI work about each of us to kind of build their understanding of like what type of people and what is their thinking when they go into this room. you know, I don't know if I'm I'm speaking clearingly enough or coherently enough on that, but I I would say that, you know, thinking about because clearly we're all passionate about many different things. And um one of the things that I I have thought carefully about um

111when choosing to post something online or using social media is uh not just that I'm posting it but where I'm posting it. So if you are part of a group and you're posting something in a group in which other members of the board belong that is different than if you're posting on your own page. And yes when you post things on your own page you and your page is open you are available for other people to view the content on your page. And sometimes there are uh repercussions to what you choose to post. Um they can be positive repercussions or they can not be positive for you personally. Um sometimes people use the things that you do to try to negatively impact the district. That is just a matter of course. The the thing that

112I have taken to when I'm thinking about this for myself because I do think very seriously is when I am posting something, where am I posting it? Am I posting it on my personal page? Am I posting it in a group that has a specific purpose? Um, and what are the possible impacts of what I'm doing? partially because I don't want to cost the district money because that is something that my actions could inevitably do. Um but also for for for me um you know Director TR is much more public online than I am because I'm protecting my mental health, right? So, I've chosen to not be present on social media in the same way that Director TR has been because I can't handle it, you know, personally because I have too many other things

113going on to be able to deal with what's going on. Um, so that's that's kind of the things that I think about when I'm posting things because I again I don't have that public presence online in the same way as some of the other board directors do. So um, but I I do I do realize that there have been and are implications for when I do things. So whether it's my, you know, intent or not, those things have happened. It's a yes. And the it good thing you're prioritizing mental health. I like that for you. It's Yes. And looking at local electeds as well, right? part of the key whenever they speak, whether they're signing on to a resolution, whether going onto social media, wherever they are, or whether they have been called on to

114speak in public all of a sudden in front of a crowd. One of the first things that I usually hear them say is nothing I say or or do reflects the opinion or the stance of any organizations that I am associated with. And I don't know if that helps or not, but that's what I see get used all the time. And there are still consequences or uh whatever you want to call them, things that happen afterwards just depending on how big of a splash that makes >> think. Yeah, I'll just wrap this up because I think we're in a good place. First, >> a couple thoughts on your >> Okay. Um, I I implicitly trust all of you and I would be happy to just say post away. I will guarantee I would agree with

115it. I think it will be reflective of how where we are all at and and I will post wherever whenever just understand that there will be consequences. And as much as we like to say, I'm just saying this as me, people that are unhappy with it will paint the whole board with it, and it's fine. And I'll just have you just do a little thought exercise. If it was someone else that was in your seat and they were posting their opinions on immigration, on our LGBTQ QT kids, they it would be attributed to all of us those thoughts if the other person that was running had been elected and we would then have to be dealing with. And so that's just why this has become that's why this rule is in place because we haven't

116always had people where we were very much in alignment and how to protect our kids and what was important and they were posting things that we then as a board we all got labeled as being that way. So that's why that's there just so you understand and so it just it'll give you a little moment's pause as you're about to post but post away. I if that's if you need to share your thoughts, just know don't be surprised if some of our um what's the word I want to use? Um uh people that are looking for those opportunities use it against us. >> Do you have something director Tran? Your card is up. So I I want to pull together some threads. I'm hearing there an acknowledgement that there's different levels of involvement in social

117media for lots of different reasons just as individuals, right? And that could impact how people view its use. And I think that's helpful to recognize. Um recognize as well that being a small elected body does impact it just in a different way and understanding those circumstances is helpful. Um, what I would like to suggest, um, and I don't want to be the last person speaking here, but maybe finding a way for a feedback loop. maybe the the question isn't because again that word for about trust President Hayes I think is really helpful but if there's a feedback loop um there there unfortunately are instances and not within this community but you can come up with them where lawyers have have had to be hire hired to your point vice president so sometimes that the the

118repercussions are literally pretty steep and so but if there's a way to do a feedback loop maybe that's a way of of of finding a way forward in those gray areas in those gray areas. What What do people think about that? >> What would that in practice look like? I guess >> I know it's tricky with OPMA. I don't have a perfect solution. Um but I find it as a a way of um uh if if maybe something to noodle. I don't mind continuing to noodle on it either. I I wonder if um we're going to have another retreat um in the spring. >> There you go. >> And so I think when it comes to the work of the board and the trust with the board and the you work as a team. So

119there's there's two components. There's the work of the five of you as a team and then there's the work of the six of us as a team, right? And and both of those are different and similar. Um, and so there's I think it would be important for us to have this be an iterative conversation. like let's continue to think about how um so what I'm hearing is that right now if I were to summarize what I've been hearing is that um if it's a topic of when it comes to communication on social media specifically if it is a topic that's related to the Northshore School District um it is either communicated by the board president with input from everybody or it's communicated by our communications team Um, and please don't post anything on behalf of

120the school district um, without going through that process. Um if it's something about on your personal page about your own political values and beliefs and um advocacy um you have the freedom to post and um as things come up if they come up and there are consequences the team will manage that. >> Yeah. I think one thing I would maybe try and add to that too is that if it's a an event for just your child, like my kid has a concert tonight. I want people to come. I think that's a different type of announcement because you're inviting people to that are part of your life to be part of that life. >> Yeah. >> Um and so that might be a school announcement, but it has nothing to do with the school. It's all

121about your family. >> Yeah. I would say like the big initiatives in our district or the the committee work or the the the actions that we're doing in our annual operating plan and so forth and so forth or a a tragedy that happened in the school district or uh yeah okay and then so I think that communication in any relationship whether it's professional like this setting or whether it's personal with your spouse um communication is constantly something that needs to be um addressed and talked about and an iterative process. So, okay, >> would encourage that we bump down to the last one, the coordinating board member attendance at events because I think that needs to get we need to get working on that >> um sooner rather than later. >> Yeah. So, >> yeah, thank

122you. Um yeah, and then I just want to add big picture so that we can maybe even end on time. Um, we I just had some note passing with Sandy or President Hayes. Um, we're going to um the coherence conversation that I was prepared for today will be a part of our two-on1s. Um, and then the board compensation um regardless, you're going to be compensated because you have a limit on what you can get anyway. We will talk about that at the spring um retreat. Um, so we'll just keep going. But I think this last bullet is important for us to at least finalize. So, >> so this is a logistical question. I will set a better road map this time. So, this is a logistical question. So, and it is based, correct me if

123I'm wrong, in an OPMA question of just having to know when there's going to be a quorum of the board at events so that it can be published in time to meet the facets of the law that require um posting of a board quote unquote meeting whenever there's a quorum present at a school event. So, um, if if in terms of what is helpful for that, Pecky, do you want to talk about that real quick? >> So, I'll also add to that, too. It's also communicating maybe to a school leader who's going to be coming to their building. Um, it's um oftentimes communicating to an event uh coordinator who they can anticipate uh attending as well. So, I I'm going to start off with I'm here to support I am here to support. I understand

124um how busy everyone is. Um I just need to be able to like um I'm just default to I know. Okay. As Miss Cass just uh explained, uh I sometimes will look at the calendar in a little panic and go, "Oh, no. I've got to get this out by the end of the day or we're not going to, you know, if you all want to attend and I haven't necessarily heard from a quorum and I don't meet that posting deadline, then it's a disappointment to you. It's a disappointment to the organization maybe that you're all not attending. So, I just want to come up with a structure that's and a system that's going to work uh works for you and then still meets that requirement. So, I'm open to suggestions. Um I just need to

125know what's going to work. >> I do have some thoughts on it to just ideas to run by, right? Not necessarily to go and implement. Um, when we're asking for board member attendance at events, it might help to say when we need to RSVP by. Um, just cuz I don't know how everybody else works, but I have like five calendars that I have to keep separate just by law. I don't want to mix board calendars with human rights, with personal. just is the bad thing. Um, and so I it takes time for me to kind of figure out am I available. Um, so it might help to put a RSVP by. >> Okay, >> I I can do that. Um, it's it's really all about the OPMA. So, for example, if there's an event on

126Saturday afternoon at noon, by law, I have to have that agenda posted by Friday at noon. uh in a perfect world. Uh I could whip that out real quickly on a Friday morning at 8:00. However, we all know that we don't live in a perfect world and sometimes an email can come in and change the world at a certain time. Um so I can I mean what's a good timeline? Is it 48 hours? Is it 72? Who is it? >> It dep I guess it depends on the event like when when do organizers need to hear by >> and that can vary too. >> Yeah. So for example, I'll use schoolboard visits for example. Um the school leaders are working on that weeks before the event. And so as you all know having been there

127and the best part of it is being broken up into the groups with the kids the students and so they strategically put um maybe Dr. Irish with maybe a new board member or da da da. So it helps them for their planning to know. Um but they're they're understanding too. They understand children get sick. Um they know, you know, it's it's all about just doing it's it's meeting their needs and meeting your needs as well. So, for example, 72 hours probably wouldn't work for that because um they're they're sharing that information for that visit a week, you know, in the Friday brief before it happens almost. So, and then that work correlates with what they're working with their executive director, too. So, there's lots of moving parts in those. Um oftentimes, if an event is

128being catered, they might need two weeks notice. and I don't always necessarily know. Um, you know, they're not and they're also not going to turn you away either. So, it's that's that's a hard question to answer, honestly. >> Back to you. Um, I think one example for me recently was, um, when we had to schedule a quasi duos meeting relatively quickly and it turned out that I was the tent post, but I didn't know because I had gone off the computer for a couple days because I had been doing other things. And so I think your text message that was like clear, I need to know this now was very helpful because then I didn't have to go like wade through emails to try and figure out where it was. I was like, oh, there's

129an urgent thing that I've missed. Let me catch that. Um, and I think I don't want to make more work because you've already sent it out, but like if that happens, if like we drop the ball, miss it, I think the text message of, "Hey, need it now helps a lot." >> Y and I'm happy to do that. I'm happy to look a week ahead and and send it, you know. Um, and I know how busy your inboxes get. I I do know that. And I know that you're balancing multiple inboxes, not just your school district ones, too. So um so for example u Monday's ribbon cutting um there's a little bit of coordination that goes into that between comms well more more than a little a lot. So um I will probably connect with

130each of you this evening for those that I don't know who are attending because then we make that back to the school too. So it's it's all it's it's two-way communication back and forth with the event as well. >> I was going to agree that I love the Peggy texts. A well, you you'll get more of them. >> Thank you. Because that is that is what and and then I I also just love a calendar invite. So like if there's something that we're being invited to that it's okay to have something for OPMA. Um a calendar invite helps me visualize where I'm trying to put that in my calendar so then I have a better idea. Um because just for me listing times and dates in an email doesn't help me figure out what >>

131and I can understand that. Yeah, >> I can understand. And the key to that working is for the OPMA is that when I look at the meeting, if I haven't heard from somebody, I don't know if we if especially if we're at two that are saying yes, I sit there and go, hm, well, that's why I'll pro I'll probably send a text >> and and maybe that's something that we can think about as a board is making sure that you're clicking yes or clicking no. um because the the no is important for for OPMA, but then also to kind of give you an idea of what what who's coming in, what the coordination is going to look like. >> So, what I'm hearing is if I have an RSVP um dead by deadline to include

132that. Happy to do that. Um number two, I can look at the I'm usually I'll struggle like what day is it? I don't even know what day it is because I'm looking at to next week. I can send that quick text. If you haven't responded to Crystal Springs ribbon cutting, please let me know ASAP. And then um hearing a calendar invite versus an email saying who would like to attend blank blank blank. Is that right? Did I get that? >> Who really is next? >> I I agree with all of those ways. I feel guilty that that is all landing on you and that seems like a lot though. >> No, no, no, no. Um um and I I can't always just say yes or no because I need to coordinate so many other people

133um like subs for my work and my partner for my child. Um so sometimes I'm probably the last one to respond. I apologize. I'm sorry. Um but um having on the calendar is really helpful. I sent that calendar to Charles so he can try not to plan shoot days on days that I might like. Typically Thursdays are not even a day that I could come and he canled a shoot so that I could be here tonight. Um so I've shared that with him so that we can try to respond to more quickly. So having things on the calendar is helpful not just for um me but also the other human being I have to coordinate with. >> I think you're being too hard on yourself because you're doing really well. >> Thank you. Well, maybe

134it's my rejection sensitivity that I'm like this is all about me. I am failing at this. I'm doing the >> No, no, no, no. Um, and >> no, no, no. >> If I haven't responded, uh, that text message really is helpful because if I have forgotten to to coordinate something, I can then be like, "Let me get on that right now and reach out to my other people." >> And in fairness to you and Director Sanderson, you got calendar dumped at when you when you took office in in December because the other invites had gone out for things like that. So it it was it had to have just been stacked. >> Yep. Yeah. So those are three things that are very easily done on my end. And uh if it works for all of

135you, then that's all I need. No, that's all I need. >> Just one last thing to add. The I prefer not to say no on something just so I see that it's happening and I'm aware. Um, so one of the things that I would like to do is or one of the things I have been doing is hit follow. I don't know how it shows up on your calendar, but follow for me means I am not attending. I'm just following al like I'm watching that this is happening. >> So I don't see that. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> It just disappears. Yeah. So I usually hit follow know it's happening. >> Yes. >> So, the only challenge with that is if it's two that have accepted, I don't know that you're following it and not

136planning on attending. I'm thinking I don't know who's going and I don't want three to show up and somebody's inconvenience by having to leave. >> Yeah. That works. >> Yeah. And it leaves it on your >> Well, we have tentative. We have tentative. No, and yeah. So, >> means no. Oh, thank you. Does follow not show up as >> I don't see follow no it only be so so let's just have that working norm that attentive is a no >> and then that stays on your calendar >> and that way it will stay on your calendar so you'll see um >> I'll just see it >> you'll see the event but I'll see tenative and know that you're not attending >> and then so how do we actually say maybe I'm working on it >>

137um you can just contact me you can just >> or just leave it unannounced at the moment Yeah. So, right now I've just been I I I put a hard yes when I'm a hard yes. And if I haven't said a hard yes, then I'm still >> then it's a maybe. >> Yeah. >> And then if you can't go, hit no. If you want it on your calendar, hit tentative. >> Tentative. >> Yeah. And and what will be happening is if I if I'm in a position where I'm not knowing if we're going to need to have a published agenda is I'll just reach out via text and just say you know. So okay. Okay. So I have one last question because I noticed that um Mr. fix invited lots of people to concerts um

138towards the end of in December like come see all the concerts >> and so or like you know when they send out like come see unified bowling like how do we communicate those like I could I can pretty much tell you right now if there's a band concert at Sky View or North Creek I will be there and if other people say they want to go then that's great but then it becomes a you know there's enough people but like how do we deal with some of those other things like I know nobody else wanted to go to the North Creek swim banquet but me, but >> um that way, >> right? So, um board invites as a whole are always a challenge. So, there's there's people that will work through me. Um I'll I'll

139use the scholarship foundation as an example. They are amazing. Um probably helps that Bezy is a former board president, so she understands. So, she will always coordinate the invitation to the board through me. um some of our uh so we're working on that and it's just a reminder to staff that when they're inviting the whole board to please at least copy me um and you know I understand they want the invitation to come from them but please copy me so that I can >> that you're not listed I just forward it to you to make happen please do and I'll talk to my friend Mr. Mr. fix. Yes. And and it's it's totally fine because we want the invitation to come from them. I just need to be aware of it. >> Okay. I just

140want to kind of summarize. So, uh, yes, if you're going, no, if you're not going and you want it to disappear from your calendar and you're very happy with it disappearing, tentative, if you're not going, but you want to keep it on your calendar. If you're a maybe what I would propose as a working pract what did you call that a working norm um that you say yes because it's easier to post it as an OPMA a meet a public meeting and not have three people show up than to have it not be a public meeting and have three people show up. So if you're a maybe truly a maybe not a tenative but truly a maybe just say yes and then if unless it costs us money to go but then we can >>

141the challenge with that the challenge is that is the event the coordinator of the event so let's say it's a principal >> now is expecting you to come and has designed an activity with you in mind and then you don't show up and it's a disappointment to that principal. So um so that's the challenge. You know, I RSVPds and wasn't on the list at the last. I had to remind him that you were Yes. How about President Hayes? Um, >> and you did RSVP. Um, >> I'm teasing. Okay. All right. So, scratch that blend. Whatever. All right. Um, couple other thoughts. Um, again to working norm and thank you, um, Director Sanderson for bringing that up. If you get an invite that is not coming from Peggy, first person that it goes to is Peggy,

142FYI. And we'll see and me. So, we'll see if this is everybody is receiving that invite or just you because if it's just you, problem solved. If it's all of us, then we want Peggy to know so she can start counting noses. Um, and then I would just encourage for me I triage invites. Um, and especially since you're not board president, the most of your emails are not going to be emails that need to be responded to immediately. So, I would triage. Oh, I got this email. I'm sending it to the board president. See if everybody got it. And by the way, you're all doing great with that. So, no problems there. Um, and then triage. just invites and get going on that and just kind of let the rest of the emails breathe percolate.

143>> Yes. >> So, and we can certainly revisit this if you find out that you're hearing from me too much then we can just we can re we can revisit it. Yeah. Okay. So, thank you and um I just want to make it work for you. So, okay. This is not a piggy question. This is a different meeting norm. So if you are a liaison to a group >> and you want to meet with somebody that is in charge at that liaison, is that a bring a person with you or is that a you can meet with that person? Like I in my head right now I'm trying to make better communication for the board with the Snowomish County Council and so I'm trying to get a meeting with Jared me and so like I

144just wanted to make sure I'm following the proper norm with that. >> That is totally fine. You may meet with him. You can meet with the PTA president. You can meet with um your the foundation. You could certainly meet with Cara and and the board president. That's totally fine. It's where you want to bring a second board member in is if it is going to be something where it appears you might be lobbied on or an ask of the board. So you you came with uh me to the water polo conversation. Yeah. Yeah. It just that's that's where it's helpful to have a second person to hear all the things. >> And if we if we think it's going to be an ask, send it to Peggy to ask if somebody can come with us.

145>> Yep. And you guys have been doing great with that. I really I just want to reiterate none of this is because I think there's a problem happening here. This was the agenda was not put together because anybody was behaving poorly or we needed to fix anything. It's just to get us going in the correct. You guys are amazing. I'm serious. I'm Monday night I was like, you know what? I'm I could walk away. They have got this. >> We do not want to appoint someone. >> You are I I was like proud mama up there Monday. I was like, you guys are phenomenal. And >> I can attest. She told me separately how amazing you all are and I agreed. >> Yeah. So, um, you guys are doing great. So, I don't want anybody

146walk away thinking that you were criticized or that we're finding fault with how the work is going. It's just a little preventative medicine here because Amy and I have experienced some some pretty um either because of board behavior or just circumstances outside our control that clean up on aisle too. >> And I would like to say there's um some muscle memory getting built here too just about how to talk through sticky things which is just really important because there's going to be so many sticky things. It's just the work, right? And so this is complex issue like so that's why I have the puzzle pieces there's so many and the ven diagram too there's so many things at play and so just being able to dive in is just amazing and from where you started

147to where the conversation ended it was really awesome. >> Yeah. >> So I agree everyone's doing great and what huge hearts. Huge hearts. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Any last thoughts? Anything anybody wants to share? Um, I appreciated this conversation. I look forward to the next board retreat when we get to circle back on some of these difficult yet crucial conversations. And I also appreciate the mentorship, too. Like the reason the new board members including myself and vice president Zotac are where we're at is because of the knowledge sharing and board members who have been on it for a while who are not gatekeeping and who are um doing a great job at mentoring folks. I can't even imagine. Yeah, gatekeeping have it. You guys are great. Yeah, it's okay. What What was the word you

148taught me? Poly crisis. We're in the world of poly crisis. And so us being together and trusting each other, we we're going to manage whatever whatever come next. Okay. And with that, I'm we're when the superintendent starts getting twitchy, I know that it's time to stop talking. >> Angry right now. I'm not ready for it. >> I'm going to say >> I didn't I didn't I didn't >> Yeah, I'm angry. When you see me packing up, I'm getting angry.