May 28, 2026 VISD Regular Board Meeting

0018 and I call this meeting to order. Um at this time I would like to uh offer a land acknowledgement. Uh to honor our indigenous community members and neighbors, we are aspiring to be good stewards by celebrating those who came before us, who brought us together in this place at this time. Caring for this land so that those who come after us may also enjoy its gifts. Creating respectful, inclusive, anti-racist space. nourishing our students bodies, hearts and minds so that they may become what they dream for themselves and continue the tradition of telling our collective story. Uh with that being said, um at this time we offer the first of Thank you so much. Uh the first of two public comment opportunities. Um as a reminder, um this is a meeting of the school board

002in public. It is not a meeting with the public. Um we appreciate your um comments to be kept under three minutes. You'll see there's a timer that appears on the screen. We also have one of our board members joining us remotely. Uh one of our board members is also um out uh sick tonight, so she's not able to join us. Um and with that all being said, I'm not sure the proper order of things here tonight, so I'm just going to go as they appear before me. Um and uh Maria Porter Stewart, please. Okay. I wasn't planning to speak first. I don't have anything prepared. Um I was at the listening session and I was asked to read a letter at that time but was told it was not the forum for that and I

003believe the letter has been submitted by the family. So, I know that the board is aware of those concerns and really the fact that it brought up that these are not just phones, they're small cameras, they're recording devices. Um, they are tools that can invade priv privacy and and cause really irreparable harm if they're used wrong. And um what I was going to say because I thought it would be later um and I think some other people will be speaking is just that I feel like there is plenty of data out there. We know what is right for kids brains and development and it seems that the hard thing is the implementation. But I believe that that is upon this board and this school district to figure that piece out because this is the right

004thing for our children and for their learning. >> Thank you. And as a reminder, if you did want to speak again at the end of the evening, we do have a second opportunity for people to comment. Um, next up on the list of folks who wanted to speak tonight, Brian How. >> Hello. >> So, my name is Brian How. My son Elliot's 10. He's here short here at Shitakqua. I know the primary focus is on high school, but I'm here to advocate for bell-to-bell phone policy across all three schools. Ideally, phone staying at home or in the car. So, one of the reasons why I got asked by some others to come here is because I work in social movements and get to learn firsthand from some of the country's top child psychologists and leaders

005like Jonathan Height on this issue. And two principles that I've learned from my work that I want to focus on. One is that out of sight is not out of mind. And the second is that willpower is not a policy. So, with the first, a phone that your child can't see still pulls at their attention all day long. Psychologists call this an open loop. Anything unfinished that the brain refuses to set down, it runs in the background and it uses the space that our children need to learn and be present. The phone in the bag is the ultimate open loop. Who texted? What did they say? What am I missing out on? It's all running. And this isn't just my opinion. The research is pretty clear on this. Uh researchers at University of Texas gave

006students focus test with their phones. One group on the desk, another group in a bag next to the desk, and the third group with the phones out of the room. Every phone was turned off and untouched. Yet, the students whose phones were in another room scored remarkably higher than the other two groups. The closer the phone, the worse they did, because out of sight's not out of mind, but out of the room can be. Um, I always think about how to illustrate things with stories. So, I went to Edgar Allen Poe for this. and the story of the telltale heart which we all know a murderer haunted by the heartbeat beneath his floorboards beat only he can hear growing louder until eventually he confesses. I think the phone in the bag is that telltale heart.

007No one else can hear it but our children uh do. Uh the child who has it in the bag hears it and it beeps all day long. Ignoring that heartbeat takes constant effort which brings me to the second point that willpower snob policy. A rule that only works if every student and teacher resist perfectly all day, every day isn't a policy. I think it's closer to a wish. And the current approach, as I understand it, ask students to sit beside the silent phone and ignore the call of it hour after hour. And I don't think that's fair. I also don't think it's fair to ask a teacher to try to police it while trying to teach. Um, my son Elliot loves Greek myths. So, my illustration for this one is to draw from the story

008of Ulisses. Ulisses had to sail past the sirens whose song lured sailors to their deaths. But he didn't trust himself to resist up close. So he tied himself to the mask before the ship got near. He made the decision before the temptation arrived. And behavior scientists call this rightly the Ulisses principle. I think Bel is that principle applied. A decision made once in advance. Not willpower handed to teachers and students fresh every morning. I'm not against phones or technology at all. And what I'm for is fully present kids learning from each other. Thank you. >> Thanks. Um, well, I just want to say thank you so much for for being in this room and for being on the school board and hearing deeply about the education and issues that are concerning to our students. I'm

009the parent of a first and third grader here at Shiakwa Elementary and they've had a really pretty wonderful educational experience. Really great teachers. It continues to get better and better. Um I'm also here as a member of the instructional materials committee and I'm the member of the instructional materials committee who is is not interested in approving the curriculum process that you all have in front of you. Um I um so my my third grader tried a curriculum two different curriculums this year and with CKLA amplify I saw really a joy of learning and reading and writing that I didn't see with the Emerge curriculum and I really only have her experience to judge from. So when um I was asked for parental feedback and when I was asked to join the committee, I was looking

010forward to hearing from a diversity of perspectives and I felt um so I was invited to join the committee May 13th. We met May 15th and that committee was the principles from the three schools, Dr. Stephanie Spencer and me. And immediately I felt like well this is really a lot of responsibility and I was hoping to hear from some teachers and um I didn't get that at that meeting. So, I've um I've subsequently had conversations with numerous teachers and follow-up conversations with Miss Kangas and I can better I can better understand the recommendation and why emerges the curriculum being suggested and I think there is opportunity for meaningful parental participation that was missed and if parents are stakeholders and I believe parents parents to be important stakeholders in their in the education of their kids.

011We um we should um adjust our policies and make the instructional materials committee not a preuncter meeting that meets once and rubber stamps a policy but a committee that actually has the opportunity to engage with the materials in a meaningful way and to ask questions of teachers. I will just close and say that I have a lot of respect for the teachers who have tried the process, the two different curriculums this year. I know there has been a robust process and that they've put a lot of time and energy into it and um but I see room for policy adjustments. >> Thank you. Um at this time I don't have anybody else marked out for public comment. Was there anybody else here that wished to speak at this public comment opportunity? Okay. Um great. Um

012moving on at this time, uh we will um uh move on to the consent agenda portion of the evening. Um being a district of our size, uh we are able to move this along. If I hear no objections to the consent agenda as presented, uh I would like to uh move that we approve it as submitted. Any objections? Fantastic. It is approved as submitted. Um, great. Um, next up, well, unfortunately our, uh, young, very busy student reps are not here tonight. I wasn't sure if there's anything they wanted you to carry forward for them. >> They are still actively pursuing, uh, because two of our student two of our three student reps are seniors, so they are still actively pursuing students at the high school to step up. Um, and they asked me to make

013sure I not only said that out loud tonight, but that I remind students of the opportunity by sending an email and reinforcing the fact that they can get volunteer hours for this work. >> So, I will do that. >> Uh, and national policy updates, which is also you. >> It is me. There are no national policy updates to report on at this time, but we have many state rules that are going to be implemented in the upcoming school year and we are going to be reviewing that with the admin team on Monday to make sure we are implementing this written. There are two pages of it. Anything of particular substance or importance at this time to share with >> um the class? I'm not prepared to share all of them um until we've unpacked them.

014>> Fantastic. >> Uh board legislative rep update. River >> I would actually echo the exact same comment. >> Okay. >> All right. Um well with no further ado, Cassie, much of the next chunk of the evening will be you. >> Okay. >> Uh moving on to the monthly budget report, assuming that's where you want to start first. >> Uh yes, I think so. Um so we are in the eighth operating month. We're talking about April. Um you can see that our general fund revenues are at 67.2% and our expenditures are 67.92. Um we do have two um items that need reconciliation. One in the general fund and one in ASB, but they're both small and I expect them to be resolved um by the time May is closed. Um the fund balance in general fund

015is more this month compared to a year ago. We have a little bit higher revenues and higher expenditures than we look at the same month last year. Um April includes our basic aortionment um our local revenue um as well as property taxes which is a really nice thing to see. We see those in October and April. Um that's actually really important for this time of year because aortionment dips down percentage wise in May and June. So, um, those taxes really help us get through until our bigger portion of payment in July. Um, everything is functioning as normal in capital projects, dent service, ASB, and transportation vehicle fund. Um, you'll probably note that in capital projects, you are seeing a lot more expenditures, and that's again because we're direct charging those things every month. Um, except

016for the salaries, which we're not able to do because of the, uh, Washington uh, school district accounting manual. I'm not sure if anybody has questions, but really um everything is functioning as normal and as expected, which is a good thing. We are slightly under the normalized projection rate for expenditures, which is good news, um for this time of year. Um and we're hoping that that will keep going down as we go through the end of the fiscal year in August. >> Does anyone have any questions for Cassie at this time about the monthly budget report? Okay. Uh moving on things. Uh next item is the 2026 2027 budget planning update which I believe is going to be a joint effort. >> Yeah. >> Um yes. So um this is the most up to date. Um

017I did update these slides today. So if you're seeing that the numbers are maybe looking a little bit different if you muted. I did update them this afternoon. Um Peter, if you could go to the next slide. Again, we just um always approach our work with the Bachelor Promise in mind. Um, and now that we are at a point where everything has been pushed over into our EDS system to submit the F195, our projected revenue came in at 29.5 million. Um, just a quick reminder that that's 1313 um, annual average FTE for our enrollment projection. And that is also utilizing a tax collection assumption of um, it comes out to I think 94% if I do the math right there. Um, and that's just showing that we're not able to collect 100% of all of

018those local levy dollars. And so I just want to point out that the revenue did not come in quite as high as we had hoped it would based on that tax collection. Um, the next slide um, just kind of talks about the things that have happened since I gave the last um, budget update. And the big one here um, has to do with our district insurance, which is our risk pool. Um we were notified that the risk pool could um be going up as much as 45% for us. Um it turned out that we were a little bit lucky. Um I don't know if we could say lucky, but uh rather than 45% is actually 38%. We were first told that it would be 18% increase. So that was a really significant increase for us.

019Um, I had budgeted a little bit of buffer in there for us, but it was not nearly enough to cover an increase that was 20% more than they had said. Um, and that's really just because, um, across our region, and Dr. Mocha can probably speak a little bit more to this. Um, they are kind of spreading out a $60 million um, I don't know, right? $60 million across the the PSD. The districts in our 35 districts in our uh ESD were sharing this $60 million increase. And this is an across the state uh group, the Washington schools risk management pool. Um the issue is not uh the pool or can we do better. There are only two opportunities really across the state unless you go for private insurance. Um the issue really is uh and

020I sent the board this document. The um settlements for uh sexual abuse and molestation especially across our state have been in the millions for settlements and that comes out of that pool. And so because of that and because of the legislation around that allowing for such large payouts um and I'm not saying they're good or bad. I'm just giving you the facts. Those large payouts have put the risk pool in a situation where we're all going to feel the effects of that because remember this is not insurance. This is basically a self-insured by all the districts in the collective. Um and so Uh it's caused a lot of upset and a lot of lobbying. Um the bottom line is we found out about the additional $100,000 that we're going to have to put into the

021budget for this after we did the majority of our work with our staffing. Um and May 15th we tell our teaching staff that they have a job and so we are obligated to those folks. we've and we'll go through all the reductions we've done, but that risk pool um increase was really a surprise uh dramatic surprise because they have given us estimates for every year and they've been in the 14 to 16 and they come in pretty much on money. So when they told us it was 18% we counted on that. That particular topic was very hot at when we were there and so I do expect there will be quite a bit of conversation around that as we go into the legislative session next year. Um other things that just end up costing a

022lot for us um our contract benefits that we have with first student are pretty significant. That is above and beyond what we pay just for the actual pupil transportation. Um we have some costs that we have to budget for that. >> Stop for one sec for me. >> Um so first student is the transportation company that we have a contract with to transport all of our students. We have 12 to 14 runs that we do and I don't know if folks in the audience can relate to this but most if not a ton of people drive their kids to and from school. So what we have seen very clearly is that our our buses run empty often. So I asked them again, we have a $1.6 million bill that we anticipate from them for transportation

023and that's a lot of money and the reimbursement we get from the state does not cover that cost. Um and so I asked them to help us reduce uh by two roots for next year. So, we're in the process of figuring out how we do that, how much it saves us, which we're looking for at least $100,000 um and the inconvenience that may or may not cost based on our ridership, based on our start time. So, we're still looking at that um as a possible cost savings. But the contract benefits, again, this goes for all benefits across the district. We are required whether folks choose to take their health benefits or not. We pay the state and the state provides the benefit. So, we pay for people whether they take them or not. That's legislative.

024Um and and there is also another push for the legislature to cover those benefits for our substitutes across the state at the district's expense expense. So and if I look like I'm talking funny, it's because I am. I have dental work and my lips are not meeting each other. Sorry to say. Can you just one point that I think is the contract benefits is that the school bus >> the school bus >> drivers have to provide them with >> pay their benefits even though we don't employ them right >> and that was another legislative move and the sub costs they're working on that too to get the legislature to say you know and if it sounds like an unfunded mandate it's because it is >> and when you say sub you're talking about substitute teachers

025I just want to make sure substitute everybody substitute for any position. >> So yes, substitutes >> and I will say the dis one of the disconnects there is that >> um state agencies are mandated to provide 12 days of sick leave per year to employees. The state funds is that up to four now >> it's four days per year but only for the >> but only for the certified staff >> and only for the certified staff. They think that that prototypical >> right that are that are paid for state funds not for through grants or local funds. >> So all of these things keep coming at us and we keep picking up the cost of that. Um >> we also pay for fuel on those buses do we not? >> Correct. >> Yes we do.

026>> Yeah. So, diesel buses >> some >> I think it is a mixed bag. >> Um I I'm not an expert on our um on our fleet. Apologies. >> Okay. >> The the point is that those are costs that >> can we mitigate those costs? And I'm not going to ask for our community to do this right now, though we've been talking about ways to communicate with the community about these kinds of expenses. If people really are committed to driving their student to and from school so that we don't have to contract for a seat for every child, that could save us. So that's yet to be enacted or talked about or brought to the community, but that's something that if you watch our buses go in and out and we are all taxpayers, it

027can be very frustrating to know that there's a seat for every child and not every child's taking the bus. >> So anyway, working on it. >> Can I can I ask kind of a Pandora's box question? Um, how hypothetically How much do you think it would reduce this cost would be reduced if all schools operated on the same start and end time? It we already investigated that and it actually would increase our cost because we would need again this I'm relying on an outside agency and I I was able to well I'm relying on an outside agency to give me an answer. Their answer is we'd need twice as many drivers. So our cost would go up significantly. we wouldn't recognize savings. Um, so >> our contract with first student does end next year and

028so we'll be exploring some different options to try and figure out a better way for us to put this into the the budget following. Um, just kind of going through the rest of the bullet points. Um, we're seeing um, a pretty significant increase in our costs this year. Um, and that's substitutes cost. Um, so that's another thing that we have to make sure that we build into our budget. And then our utility costs are increasing across the board anywhere from 7 to 15% depending on what utility it is. So all of those things um are expenditures that we can't just not pay for. And so those things are all included in the expenditures which are on the next slide. Um, so our projected expenditures came in at 30.5 million. Um so you can see there

029in the red that our delta between revenues and expenditures is just over a million dollars. Um that's quite a bit bigger um than what we had been thinking um with the revenue not coming in as high as we had hoped and with some additional expenditures. That's the delta that we're looking at. And so what this means for us is that in order to bridge that gap we'll need to spend $346,200 from the fund balance. Um and that means that our fund balance polic will not be met because we will be looking to take the most restricted funds. >> as far as we know. Correct. Um this is the budget that um will likely be put forward if approved. Um I accept the F195 for approval from EST, so they may have some questions or comments

030coming back, but I don't anticipate um any large edits um based on the information that we have today. Um so what this really means for us is that at this time we do need to hiring. Um, we will need to go to an essential spending only um and really work to have a higher fund balance than projected for the end of the year so that we can carry that over. Um, that hopefully is something that we can make possible. So, we are really scrutinizing spending. Um, we're paying very close attention to everything that's coming through and we're doing our best to only spend on things that we absolutely need from now through August. Um, and then you kind of mentioned with a few things already, just increased evaluation of all of our expenditures to make

031sure that we can have um some stability for the long-term financial outlook for the district. Um and it will probably be something that will take a lot of very difficult decisions over multiple years. >> And the board today received the budget book. We didn't expect that we would look at that. We're not going through that tonight. It's a draft. Uh it will be gone through in detail at the meeting on June 11th. Uh certainly if you have any questions in the meantime, you can send them to Cassie and or me. Um the real issue here is by spending fund balance. As you know, we're kicking the can down the road and we're hoping for the legislature and that is not a good place to be. Um, had we known earlier, we would have, again, we

032believe that we've reduced our certificated staffing and our administrative staffing as much as we possibly could to still maintain the program. We've also now notified our BESP or our our PAR educator folks uh that there will be reductions there. We won't um be hiring people who have retired. We won't be replacing all of them. Uh there'll be some reduction in hours for folks. Um this is painful. Um it's not it's not going to get better until something changes above our heads. Um but we're going to do everything we can to keep us in the black. That's our job. Um but I promise you that if things stay as they are now, there will be more positions lost next year. It's not It's not sustainable. So, I'm not trying to scare anybody. We're going to do

033everything we can to build our fund balance. We're going to hope that everyone pays their taxes and not just 91% of the people. You know, we're going to try and reduce our transportation expenses. We're going to do all the things that we can possibly do. Um, but it's it's not rainbows and unicorns. It's tough. It's very tough. So, I appreciate all the work that Cassie has done and the entire administrative team because we have been at this since December. Um, just just trying to be as discreet as possible with every reduction. Uh, and they've been painful for the folks that uh are on staff. This is not easy. Um, so questions, comments, more information that you may want. I know you haven't been able to dive into the budget book yet, but once you do,

034if questions come up, Jess, anything for me? I want to make sure it's I I can see you out of the corner of my screen. I wasn't sure. I want to make sure we're calling on you if you have stuff you wanted to share. Um I how many days are getting left in the fun balance when after we go back to 386? Do we know what that look like? >> So I didn't do that calculation but I can certainly >> yeah it's uh it's >> okay math at the last minute. I apologize. >> It's it's not quite 10%. So if we equate it to days um but again that's a draft. It may be it may be less than that. If we can capture some spending that we we can not spend this year and

035we can build that fund balance a little bit. It may be that we can build it back to the minimum. But no promises right now. Fair enough. Thank you. Lucia or River, do you have any questions? >> I have thoughts, but they're more to shape the conversation about that. >> Okay. >> Um, just a brief I've heard from several people that watch online, if we can up collectively up our volume. The acoustics in this room are not great. And people who are taking the time to watch online, if we can all uh just turn up the volume a little bit for those folks, that would be helpful. Um yeah, I uh had the opportunity to talk to um Cassie this morning um doing reviewing the warrant. So um I uh I've had a little more

036time to digest this, but I don't have any questions at this time. Um I guess in that event, uh we will move on. Uh we're at the discussion portion of the evening. Um, is there someone here to present for uh Eric Mortonson for the Japan trip proposal? It >> was my understanding that he would be here, but he didn't indicate he wasn't. >> He wasn't, but also that CT >> and I don't know if that was >> Well, we can just postpone >> postpone it. Okay. >> Um, great. Moving on to the instructional materials committee. I believe Dr. Spencer assist you. >> Yep. At least partly me. Um so we have three um curriculums for you to consider approval of. Um two at the elementary for English language arts. The main core program being emerged

037by McGrathill. And then we also have a a phonics kind of supplemental that they've been piloting that's had really good success for students with IEPs and some of the tier 2 um services students needing extra reading support and that's newfly from University of Florida literacy center >> institute um and then we also are um requesting that we finish our open sai ed adoption which has come been in the works for the last three years. This will round out the secondary program as well as we'll be adding in some units at the elementary school that support and align to the science that's embedded in the new emerge curriculum. Um so as you already heard our instructional committee wasn't unanimous. We had invited three parents, three teachers and the administrators of each school. Um none of our

038teachers were able to join us that day. And then we had our one parent who spoke to you earlier tonight in public comment. Um we paused a little bit so that that parent could have an opportunity to speak with folks and then um uh she made her decision and so we can move forward with a not a unanimous consent on IMC um but still we are um recommending these programs. I want to thank Julie and everyone involved at the elementary. We have a number of teachers here tonight who can speak to you and answer questions. But um whenever we go through this process, it's an unbelievable amount of work. Um there's a lot of process, a a lot of involvement. I'll let the team talk to what they did to arrive at their decision. Um

039and same thing with the science teachers at the high school and the elementary who piloted this year with those materials. So, um I'm going to kick it over to these folks because they have the most important voice in this. Um and again, thank you to everybody involved in the process, our students, our um parents, our teachers, our volunteers in the classroom um for the work that they did. >> All right. Well, so we began our process about this time last year when we were um looking at which first of all coming up with a pilot team in our building and then deciding which curriculums we were going to look at for the year and knowing that um we wanted to English language arts for the elementary school is probably the most important decision we make

040in in teaching our children um to read and write and spell and be able to communicate in that way. It's a really important decision. And so, um, we went through a process of looking at what curriculum was available today and using, um, um, the reading league, which is, um, an organiz a national organization that helps score and, um, reading curriculum based on the science of reading and also ed reports. So, it's kind of like consumer reports if you're familiar with that, but it's for educational material. and you look at the reports from ed reports, it also helps to score on a number of factors for curriculum. And um I also met with um people at our ESD who are um facilitate adoptions and talking about process and they connected me with um a couple of

041well Nicole school district in particular who had just gone through a pilot process and so I spoke with their director of teaching and learning about their process and was able to they shared materials with us to be able to use to set up what that pilot would look like. And ultimately we decided on two curriculums to pilot. The first was uh core knowledge language arts or better known as CKLA which is from amplify and then initially we were looking at the wonders curriculum from agra hill. Um so we started with core knowledge language arts in the fall. Um that was one that I was more familiar with. that was a district that I had taught in previously had been had adopted um CPLA and um and so we started with that process in the fall

042and we had eight teachers on our committee. Um Carolyn Stern is here. She did our kindergarten pilot. Um Adrienne Preston was our first grade. Dary was second grade. Aaron Calvin was third grade. Shannon Brown is here. She was fourth grade. And Ashley Smith was fifth grade. And then we had our two reading specialists, Jen Salsbury and Ashley Kristofferson who were also part of it. And then Genevie Mezer was um she piloted the UFly um the intervention curriculum from our special education team. So a broad representation of our of our staff from every grade level and then our support staff as well in those processes. So, um, we, um, piloted, uh, CKLA in the fall and began the UFly pilot in the fall and a couple of classes as well. The UFly is a phonics curriculum

043and so it's really geared mostly for um kindergarten and first grade, some in second grade and then used as a supplemental curriculum or an intervention curriculum for to kind of fill in the holes and the gaps for students in the older grade levels um as they move forward. So that's that's what that one is. And then as um as we were in the process of CKLA, we had the materials. We had PD every 3 weeks or so that we did during our um PLC time where we met with um folks from Amplify where they were coming in and answering questions and helping facilitate um the the units of study. Basically, it was two units in each um curriculum that we piloted and that was both um reading and writing and spelling is a component of

044all three of those. Um and then um I was in contact with McGra Hill then about Wonders and they said, "Well, you have a choice. You have a choice to do Wonders, which is the curriculum that they've been using, or we have a brand new curriculum that we are piloting called Emerge." and they were very excited about the alignment taking where one is ours and just going to the next step and the alignment of emerge with the science of reading. Um Seattle public schools was also doing a pilot lake Washington school district was also doing an emerge pilot and so um after talking with Dr. Spencer and because uh emerge is in the queue for ed reports but they had not been through that process of ed reports because it's brand new. Um but the

045results that they had so far were so promising and the alignment for what we wanted as a curriculum were promising we just we made the choice. The other piece that was there that CKLA did not have and so our second curriculum was really important. Our K through2 teachers right now do a lot of small reading group um instruction in their classes as well as whole group instruction and we wanted to pilot a curriculum that included that small group reading instruction. So Emerge had that as well where CLA did not. So all of those things together we decided to um pilot emerge and so we did that pilot started in January and just finished up um before April 30th when we made a report. So um in as part of that process in the um as

046we were meeting as a team and making the decisions there was a rubric that um was a long several multiple tabbed rubric that that was examining all of the aspects of of the curriculum and three teachers completed that fully. The other teachers completed components of it but three teachers completed it fully. Um and um we also um had a student survey about their responses and we also offered a parent survey for the families that were um part of the pilot program. Um the student survey we got results back because we had teachers administering that. Of the parents we sent 138 surveys and we only received 11 responses back and that was all from one classroom that Erin Calhoun in third grade. She really did a good job of selling her parents and they um she

047was strongly in favor of this curriculum as were her students. They were just on fire about the as you heard from Marissa too and her daughter on on um the learning that they were doing and the um excitement about that. Um when it actually came down to looking at our team, we were also not unanimous on our team of eight that made a final decision. So, as I said, Erin Calhoun was um on the CQLA team and so were both of our reading specialists, Jen and Ashley. Um for the the knowledge and the depth of the um curriculum that was offered at CQLA, the other five classroom teachers, however, um prefer to merge. And what I'd like to say is either one of these curriculums I feel could um are strong curriculums for our students

048and they are going to meet the needs of our kids who are not reading at grade level and that's a concern, right? We need to do something big dramatic to be bringing the right kind of reading instruction to our kids. Either one of these curriculums could do that. But there were some things as a committee that we came out um to believe about Emerge that would fit who we are as a building, our students, our and our teachers better with Emerge than with CPLA. And I'm just going to find my notes. Um, so the teacher pilot feedback, like I said, of the of the eight teachers, there were three that were for CKLA and there were um there were um five that were for Emerge. Um the teacher themes that were identified as strengths of

049CKLA strong knowledge building approach with intentional sequencing of content rich contentbased units exposing students to broad topics and vocabulary challenging texts that encourage productive struggle. Strong text dependent questions and analytical thinking. Um um in the um in the emerge there was uh ease of teacher use and implementation accessibility of materials for students. The ease of access for teachers through materials for students. There's um the um the actual literature was in the hands of the kids. the books were in the hands of the kids in emerge and the workbooks um tier one and tier 2 supports that were integrated into the lesson planning. So there there is time for small groupoup instructions in two different places within the emerge um framework that they um provide and the expectations for teaching that were not part of CPLA

050um reduce need for teacher created systems and supplemental materials. So, one of the things that one of the teachers pointed out was um in engagement we know is a huge thing for getting kids to um grow and learn, right? is how engaging the things are and what the um it was Adrienne Preston. We were just talking about it today. How what she had to add to CKLA to engage her students was just more dramatic than that than and emerge was already there including having the books at hand. Um and I don't know I would ask um Shannon and Carolyn maybe to share a little bit about their knowledge about the difference between the two curriculum. The one of the biggest things for me was when we piloted Emerge and looking at we only had I

051two units in both of them. But in Emerge, the Emerge curriculum meets five of my social studies and science standards at the fourth grade level, making that much more uh easily accessible to integrate the new science curriculum as well. whereas the CKLA, I always get that one messed up, didn't have any that were integrated, meaning that we would then need time to additionally teach social studies and science. Um, so the student engagement that I saw with the Emerge curriculum uh was pretty significant. The the emphasis on non-fiction and for 5-year-olds, that's the way to go, right? like they need things they can hang their hat on that they know about that they're comfortable with. I I had students after I was teaching the weather unit uh from emerge they would go outside and they would

052say hey look at those cumulus nas clouds or hey look at those cirrus clouds and um they had the language and the vocabulary and then it was real things that they could like I say hang their hat on. Um you know they would there's there's fun facts like a cloud can weigh as much as a hundred elephants. Did you all know that? It's a big deal, right? And the kindergarters were like, I wonder if that cloud weighs as much as a 100 elephants. And it, you know, it took the lesson I was taking doing inside and then we continued it on the playground and the we had these deep crosscutting science questions uh about these clouds and about weather. Now, let me tell you, I've been teaching a long time. I've taught a lot of

053weather units with kindergarteners because it's pretty typical and I haven't seen students engage with the material this thoughtfully in all my years. Um so so that's just one of the reasons uh why I enjoyed that curriculum. In addition to what Julie said that uh the CLA my students were not engaged with and there were there were many things that we talked about earlier that you know there's one lesson it started in nursery rhymes and for a kindergartenner you have to actually see yourself as a learner and know that you're a reader and know that you can read and you have to imagine yourself as a reader. And I had kindergarteners who came in who were like, "Oh, we're doing Jack and Jill. What up the hill? That seems like preschool work to me." Um, and

054so they just didn't envision themselves as learners. Um, because of the content. It wasn't enough to hang their hat on. It felt far too pedestrian. Um, and and the students just weren't engaging with it. And I would spend a lot of time uh you know being really interesting in a really exciting way to get kids to connect with the material. >> All right. Um it was the other we know that with either one either change we are going to have to change our schedule pretty dramatically. We need to be teaching English language arts more of the day than we currently are. And you know it's it's a time is a resource right and there we have a limited resource we have six and a half hours a day four days a week and then even

055a shorter time on Friday right so it is an important resource and so one of the important considerations between we know that we are going to have to take time from some subject area in order to implement our curriculum with fidelity and the most logical place to do that is in social studies and science. Right. And so we did need to look for a curriculum that has um that embeds social studies and science in a really meaningful way and that they align and that the alignment with NTSS national gener next generation science standards in emerge. um I have all of the documentation about where those standards align and what that means is that we can be cross-eing and then with the open science ed what that does is that provides supplemental material as the lab

056right so that provides our lab science that will tie right in with um the curriculum as it is and so not only does it teach both content areas but honestly it's going to deepen the content area in both because it's embedded and aligned. The other thing that was um there was great alignment is was the writing matched the the reading, you know, so if you were reading about um if you were reading about a topic in reading and the writing was the same and so it wasn't a different book and a different um as with CLA sometimes those were different. the reading that you were doing for reading would be different than the reading that you were doing for writing at least in some grade levels. So, like I said, we piloted two units from

057each curriculum. So, we, you know, we didn't get a deep dive into all nine units, but we had to use that as a guide. >> We've talked a lot. Do you have any questions you want to ask me or any of the teachers? >> Um, I have a question probably for Dr. Spencer um about the schedule. So is this going to roll up then through 612? >> Yeah. So um McMurray will be working on their English language arts next year. Um and then the year after will be the high school. Um trying to think what else comes on board. We will >> social studies for us. >> Social studies next specifically the I wasn't sure if because let's say they Let's say we adopt a curriculum at CES. >> Is there necessarily if you do

058that then we're pretty bound to go with the same company? >> No product. >> Not necessarily. I mean they they do I I was doing a little research to see if they have because there is interest like we've had success with our math alignment being K8. So, they do have a program um that we probably would look at, but there's others. We always start by trying to find what are the highest rated programs and then narrow it down from there. Um so, if it aligns, great. But it's not absolutely necessary that it aligns. It worked out in math last time for us to do that. Um and also a couple years ago, and I'll be honest, I don't remember about the science one, but I remember when math came through. Um we were presented with

059um these bias review forms from the curriculum reviewers. Is I'm assuming that's something that happened. We just didn't see those. Yeah, we usually have those in binders. I didn't do the science this year because we've done that all last year and I don't know yet. Um I haven't had a chance to honestly we've got a lot going on but yes we have a the bias review form um which I will just say is seemingly more outdated each time we go through a cycle because of the way new materials are put together for lack better way of saying that but yes we have biased forms. I wasn't sure if maybe um the political circumstances of the moment have a what I would consider an adverse effect a chilling effect if you will on representation in curriculum

060materials I know in certain states like are they are these I don't want to rabbit hole too much here of that >> sure I mean that's always existed um it's definitely amplified in in this political era. Um and that's why over time um there are companies who will run a parallel program just for a specific state like say Texas or California. Um that is different from their main program that goes to all the rest of the states. Um so I it's not atypical to see that a same company would put together a specific kind of targeted or I don't know the right word is cold curriculum um that meets the interests of you'd have to be a large state though to do that. Thank you. Very common ones would be Texas, California, maybe New York

061sometimes. >> Questions questions from Dr. Spencer Julie or any of the assembled we do have a sample of the materials. We actually have all the big books that are offered in kindergarten and first grade that one of the nice things is that the rep from Emerge lives in five. And so she just brought these over for us to look at today. So and then we're going to have them for our staff to look at tomorrow as well for the whole staff. >> Are these mostly consumables? Like what is the life cycle on some of this? >> Those are those are actual teaching materials there. Yeah. So the big books would go to the teachers and the consumables. Yes, the consumables are there also, but also the teacher guides are there. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um,

062could Dr. Could I take a look at that next week? I'd like to see it before we >> Absolutely. I just would like to see some of the material. >> Absolutely. We get to keep those. So, just let me know when you're able to come in and you can look at them. Yeah, >> Jess, just FYI, your your the quality of your audio is very bad. I'm not sure if it's the earbuds or not, but it's super crackly. >> I'm not trying to speak up and see if that helps. Sorry. >> It's okay. >> Um, one, thank you for not just the work but also being able to hear about um the entire process and the different aspects of it. Um and in terms of implementing two curriculums, I also imagine that's that's quite a

063load for educators to switch that midyear. So, um thank you to our educators and it really for me helped hearing from our educators in terms of the hands-on experience and what they're seeing with our kids. I think I had just two question or one question actually related to just um I'm curious in terms of the reading specialists. It sounds like they supported a different choice and so I'm I'm curious since you know the emphasis to enhance um our reading scores and outcomes. So I'm curious what their thoughts were and it also sounds um and I may if I misheard please let me know. It sounded like the Cella has more of a phonics emphasis. Is that >> Did I hear you correctly or >> No. So no, both of them have um about well similar

064kind of phonics. We're we're adopting actually a supplemental phonics especially for K1. Yeah. Um that that's the University of Florida literary literacy energy institute and so we have you fly um that's going to be a supplemental to that. Um, you know, I think the reading teachers were there was a concern for sure about this the brand newness of this curriculum >> and um about and you know it's a concern that we can all share right it is brand new and so it does not have the testing that other curriculums would have. Um so we are on the same um Seattle adopted Emerge um Lake Washington and we just found out Smali also adopted. So we're going to be on the same plane with all of those districts in in implementing this if if it is

065approved implementing this for the first um for the first time. So there's a concern about that and and as you can imagine with something new as teachers were piloting it they bumped into some rough edges um with that and so that's a concern right to make sure that you have the robust materials and CKLA the the um there's a depth of of knowledge that's core knowledge language arts is the name of the program and so their their whole focus was on teaching background knowledge to kids and so that that's the foundation of that program. And so there's a lot of rich material particularly in third grade that was really engaging for those kids. And so um you know that was that was definitely a consideration for our reading teachers. >> Did they pilot? >> They

066did not actually pilot either one of them, right? So they were involved in the professional development. They were able to look at the materials. They piloted UFly, but they didn't they were there there were not um intervention curriculums that that really felt like we could do that well and still meet the needs of our kids who are receiving tier 2 intervention and reading. So yeah. Yeah. Um I have a question. Is there any screen time that comes with these materials? Is there any time that children need to spend time in front of the screens? There can be, but there doesn't have to be. So, it's a it's a teacher choice of how much um how much computer time that or screen time that you want to use with your class. What there is is there's

067in time assessment. And Caroline, yeah, answer. >> I just wanted to speak to that. So, what I ran across in kindergarten, which I I don't like to put my students in front of screens for sure. um is that for every uh online activity that they had, they had a corresponding paper activity. And so I was able to access everything online in paper and to not have students on screens and I appreciated that. I'm sorry to interrupt you. >> No, no, you did. That's great. >> The same thing is true for like all of the assessments that are in Emerge. There's a an online version and a paper version so they don't have to be on a screen. >> Is that a decision that would be made classroom to classroom? Would it be made based on

068child's IEP or 504 status or a parent saying like where how would how the lesson probably >> and it really would be a um PLC team decision, you know, as they're working through the curriculum and sometimes studentto student, right? Because sometimes a child might access something better one or two, right, in a different way. So, we would want to be open to that, but also making that a team decision and using that PLC structure to make that decision. Yeah, we are excited about being able to hire because it's a grant-f funed position, the um a teacher on special assignment next year to support this ELA implementation and the way that that melds particularly with science. And that will be um the role of that person also is to help teams figure out what's the best

069use of the material. That's really exciting >> because um during this time of working with the phone policy and we've been getting a lot of emails from families telling us that they don't agree on the screen time that students are spending on I don't have phrases but um >> there's a worry that we are putting our children too long in front of computers. Mhm. >> So this is, you know, that's a that's a >> for sure >> question or something to consider. Um there's also I I read about the positive of this um new curriculum which is um things that you mentioned uh consistency across classrooms reduce teacher workload um uh decoding exclusively low but I also read some negative or not negative but concerns >> from u other teachers who have implemented and it's

070screen dependence, less playbased and less the method developmentally responsive. Um there's concerns about health implementation with explicit um um instruction explicitly in oral language, play, knowledge building, movement, art, storytelling and rich classroom interactions. How can we I mean is there a way that you can say okay this is all going to be implemented this is going to be part of it because it looks like the the focus on forex is very strong >> and it could I don't know it could be and like you said we have to cut other things to implement this new curriculum. So I guess my question would be is there a way that we can also look into those worries those concerns >> and you're you you've read those teacher concerns not from our teacher concerns but you're thinking of

071other people that have reported who are piloting emerge right? Yeah. Um yeah so you know our focus it whatever curriculum that we have we still have the same mission and vision as a school right and those core values that still matter um about how we teach our children and so that that doesn't change right so um we want to make sure that children are learning about clouds and then walking outside so that they can actually see clouds right and one of the things about the implementation with ELA and science is working on how do we get them outdoors into the spaces that we already have and be doing that hands-on science work that supports the curriculum that's happening inside right so that is very important to us >> yes >> we were just talking sorry

072we were talking to in class um that uh at the end of every emerge unit there is >> it's like a choice I don't remember what the wording is but it's like a choice project where they have like an art uh portion they can choose to do to demonstrate their learning. And there is I think there's I feel like there's three different choices within that at the end of every unit. >> Yeah. >> And and in kindergart we didn't have time to do that. Um but I looked over the material and I was like that is pretty cool and I haven't seen that before and I've done a lot of curriculum pilots and I haven't seen that uh element before. Thank you. >> So, this uh will be on your agenda for the next meeting.

073So, you can u determine whether it's a yes or a no. Um just to remind the board, the recommendation is what you're vote you would be voting on, not either or. So, the recommendation coming from the team is that it is emerge. So the board's responsibility is yes or no. >> So >> any other questions or comments at this time? Also obviously esteemed educators welcome to as you know leave or stay whatever you like. >> Uh Julie also if you would like to catch a vote we certainly would understand if you decide if you would like to. >> This next conversation can be so much of interest. >> I'm not the boss of who stays or goes. It can be embarrassing. People feel like they've screwed out. Thank you all. That's not cool. Thank you

074very much for coming. >> Um, okay. Uh, next up for discussion, update of policy 3245, students and telecommunication devices. Do you want to kick us off? >> I can. >> This is um we've talked about this a lot. Um and we uh kind of accelerated our conversation around this policy as to whether or not the board um wants anything changed. Uh as we heard, we had a very serious uh policy violation that kind of sped us up on having this discussion. Um but it's really up to the board whether or not you want to modify your policy. Again, this is your opportunity for discussion on all you have heard and all you have gathered. No decision tonight. Um, but we're all here in the event you have questions about any of it that we might

075be able to help with. >> Anybody want to kick us off? Anybody feel like they want to I mean I guess a couple just just to to lead in which I really want to thank this community for the robust and thoughtful engagement and I believe I can't speak for every board member but I believe that every letter has been read thoughtfully that um compiled all the post-it notes. Thank you. Um, so the post-it notes, the discussions, um, the public comments and, uh, and communicate in conversations in the community, um, as well as the surveys that went to McMurray and BHS parents, um, in the survey that the students did and staff and the staff um, and trying to think about there are so many points that people have raised that I think are critical to

076engage with and no matter what policy we look at one of the aspects I hear is about uh compliance and how it's instituted um and the logistics of it that those elements have to be dealt with and have to be dealt with in a way that is going to work for educators, for administrators, and for students. I will I'm just going to share a couple of pieces. So, in the in in the letters that we received as of four o'clock today, um 27 of the letters were in support of a kind of fullway policy such as McMurray such as that they have. uh two were in support of the an iteration of the current VHS policy. Um, I found that pretty striking and I could go through some of the other data, but my colleagues

077can as well. And individuals raised a number of points that I felt were that were really critical. Um, that have already been addressed. Um, but in terms of the mental health, in terms of the academic implications for students in terms of the ability to focus and what phones in our in our buildings do and how they affect that, I actually really appreciated Brian H's comments at the beginning and the way that he framed that. I'm a very much of a a visual individual. So putting, you know, speaking about Ulyses and the sirens and some of the others that were addressing the different types of policies and there there is I don't know if he was referencing this study in particular, but there I know that there was another study that came out that looked at

078different policies um and looked at ones where students had the policy the phone in the backpack or the bag right beside them. if they had them with the teachers in the classroom versus in the office and kind of truly away in the the districts where the policies where they were in their backpacks so did not see a positive improvement academically, socially, etc. because of what I thought Brian How articulated very well that kind of sense you're still tethered to that device um versus the the policies in schools where the phones were truly away for the day and you know one from my colleagues I'm strongly in support of a full away for the day I feel strongly that it allows for our students to immerse in a learning environment and in a learning community um

079and to be fully present in that way and I think it is critical that we create that. I heard a lot of arguments um from students about the fact you know kind of treating as an adult and the ability to learn and to manage the cell phones and um you know and I have wrestled with that a bit but what I will say is the flip side a neurossychologist wrote a letter in talking about that it's actually not developmentally helpful for uh parents to have constant access to their kids. So, if we're talking about growing up and learning that kind of self-reliance and standing on your own, the constant contact, the constant kind of tracking, all of that is not necessarily helping. And to me, it's core that we provide our students with an experience,

080a learning experience of full immersion so that they have that to opt into later in life. And without that full immersive experience, um my fear is it is actually harder to choose that later in life. I heard a lot of arguments in terms of preparing us for college. As a college professor for years, I can say the preparation I would have appreciated the most is students coming where it is normalized that phones are not a part of a learning community. There are particular concerns in our community with logistics uh commuter families etc. But I really I heard a divide from commuter families um with some wanting the ability to be in touch um and some who already have students at McMurray and who are in support of the policy. And I I think again those

081logistics are something for us to wrestle with and to deal with and that I think that we can deal with that. I'm not going to repeat um the research right now. The last thing I would also say um and I know this feedback is divided as well is that as a I want to consider our policy and the impact as I said on our educators and administrators when as an educator you're having to constantly monitor and this this in the classroom um I I feel that is a heavier lift than if there's a one point in the day where the cell phones go away and there's one point in the day when they come back And this tether, it's not just managing it for that one individual student, but the number of disruptions per class

082period impacts the entire classroom. It's not just that I as a student and distracted. It's that the three people around me who hear my phone buzz are distracted. It is that the educator having to stop conversation. It's it's disrupting that ability to be 100% present. Um say a lot more, but I will stop there so colleagues can speak. Um, I can I think that the policy that we have right now brings us in a very gray public space where teachers constantly have to be reminded of. I mean we have from A to I which is nine things that we have to here um manage during the day to make this policy work. Um to begin with water is included in the telecom telecommunication devices. We need to change that right. Um, and when you allow

083students to have the phone close by, we have to be monitoring all these nine um pieces of the policy. And if we could have instead of these have a consistent simple policy, it will be way easier to implement. And we had a student who was in tears that we had meeting saying, "I was the only one because the implementation or um or the reinforcement of the policy is just wobbly. Nobody's doing it. No, most of the students are not following it. So I think it will be way easier to implement a policy that is clean, consistent and short than having to think about all these um things during the during the day in the classroom. Um another thing that I really um enjoy listening from other parent was students are afraid of making mistakes because

084there's always someone taking pictures recording them and this age or you know teenage age it's about making mistakes and that's how you learn and I think even as adults we keep we need to keep making mistakes to learn from And if the students cannot make mistakes, they're afraid of making mistakes. I just we're just not giving them the best environment that we can give them. Um I am the parent of our teach children who have to commute and yes I face that I need to call them. I need to let them know but you know what there is a there is a way to do it. I call the office at the office was very friendly and helpful and they go and leave a note for my daughters and we can coordinate. It's not the

085end of the world that our students don't have their phones. Um, another point that I really enjoy from Dr. Mocha was this is a community effort. So, it's not um we need to lead with example. So it's about educating ourselves and educating parents about where yes and where no, right? Like where yes and that's by family but don't come to the with your phone to eat, right? Don't don't sit at the table to eat. That's a word we don't do. And I'm I am I did it in Spanish like don't do no and that's it. Doni school it's a no. That's where you don't take it. Work, that's where you don't take your phone. I shouldn't be taking my phone to my job, right? Um uh leisure time or um here we have some um

086activities or sports. That's a don't know, right? Like you are with your team, you are in a meet. You shouldn't be having your home. And there's a you know a great area where students don't know and they are in a meet. my daughter runs and she's with her phone and I'm like that why? So this is part of me being a parent who needs to be responsible and say you cannot you shouldn't be doing that. I should be on top of that too. So I think that this is not just a school effort or responsibility but this is something that we need to start at home and then teachers need to also be giving the example and um and then the students will easily follow um and yeah it's a cultural change um so I

087I think they we need a strict strong policy that helps to set us for success in the long run. This is going to be hard and it's it's going to be it may take a couple of years where students are going to be complaining and parents are going to be complaining probably and but we need to do it because it's the right thing to do. Um again that the adults need to guide with example. We need to teach our students don't they see don't know and we also need to start thinking about what is going to be replacing those moments where children are using their phones. Um do they need a some corners with play or a corner with drawing or a corner where kids read or sports. uh what or the gym open gym

088or music according with music and when students have some free time instead of going running to their phones they have something to go to. We are so yeah so we need to replace the usage of phones with something that they could enjoy and they could gather and they could have some time to yeah to be together and be in person instead of being in person with somebody else. And my last point also is um safety. We spend thousands of dollars closing our doors, locking our doors. We have to bust people in. People have to be, you know, looking at who's coming and who's going. And we are trying to keep our students very safe. But yet, we have all these pervers coming at our kids, boys, girls, it doesn't matter. So I do agree that

089we need we need to change the policy. >> Thank you. >> Um I have I have a lot to say also uh but I don't want to I want to make sure Jess that you are heard. Um uh assuming you want to jump in here as well. >> Okay. Will you let me know if you can't understand me for some reason? >> It's just very crackly. We can hear you but it's very um loud crackly. >> Okay, >> carry on. >> Um so I am not here today because I am in Baltimore. I am at a advocacy conference for the National Federation of the Blind. Um, and I've spent the last several weeks in these types of programs listening to people talk about how this technology has advanced where our students can be, where our

090kids can be, what our kids can do safely. Um, and so while I understand that cell phones can be misused, I also very much see them as a tool that we are always going to have now moving forward. It is a multi-billion trillion dollar industry. they're not going away. If we're not teaching our kids how to utilize these tools safely and effectively, then what what are they going to do when they go to college? We heard a lot of students speak out in the meeting a couple weeks ago and the biggest thing was that it's just not implemented moving forward. My bigger concern is even if we change policy at this point, are we putting more pressure on our teachers and our staff to implement that policy and make more work for them so that

091when they are turning them in, are they actually turning them in? Are we creating more issues for those teachers in that process? Um, and then the other side of that need, my phone is an organizational tool for me. It is how I keep up and where I'm supposed to be, when I'm supposed to be there, who I need to respond to. And those tools are what our children will use moving forward, whether we like it or not. So, we're pulling those organizational tools away. Now, what are they going to use moving forward? It's just this is where the world is going. I understand the need to control how it involves, but I don't think that taking a phone away from an 18-year-old adult is going to change anything from what's already in place. So, are

092we looking at procedural issue or are we truly looking at this as a policy issue right now? >> Thanks, Jess. >> Um, my my thoughts are not particularly well organized at this point. So, um I I apologize for that in advance. Um earlier tonight, and I I'll admit I didn't remember what was it in reference to. Uh um Miss Kangga said something about um students being with us for 6 and 1/2 hours a day. Let's assume they ride the bus or they have some other um time in transit. That's 16 and a half hours when they're not in the school. We hope a goodly amount of that is spent sleeping and playing and other things. Um I we we gave our son a phone about a year ago and I have um uh regretted it

093ever since. Um I will be honest and this is not going to be I suspect a particularly um popular position. It is my job and and my parenting partner's job to prepare our child for the world. We have partners and educators. We have partners in our village. Um, but it was our decision to give a give him a phone. It is our decision about how we manage that phone. Um, someone pointed out to me yesterday and they said, "Well, are are you paying through your your son's phone plan?" And I said, "Yep. Are you is it a family plan?" I said, "Yep." They said, "Well, you know, there's there's um school hours function on your phone that you can turn off when your child can access the phone during the day. He's not allowed to

094use it past 9:00 at night. He's not allowed to use it until 7 a.m. And now he's not allowed to use it at all during the school day because I turned those uh hours on the phone from my phone. I have regulated what hours he's allowed to be on that device. So, it is effectively rendered as a useless, I don't know, 8 ounce something uh that sits at McMurray most of the day in wherever it is McMurray phones go, sixth period class, and is returned to him, a useless 8 oz device until it's allowed to be turned back on at 3:15. I have really come I've gone back and forth. Joe knows this. I've um have a lot of big feelings about phones. I don't think there's any dispute. Actually, there may be dispute with

095with you, Jess. Um, and I I appreciate you being willing to um be the the outlier on this. I I think the danger of phones for young people and honestly for adults is without uh a doubt. I understand you have a different position, which you are certainly welcome to um to hold. I They are terrible for me. I have a terrible relationship with my phone. I have very little self-control. Um I uh I think social media is a disaster for all of us and I don't think it is the job of educators or administrators to manage that for our children. If we are sending phones to school with our children and asking the school to manage that for them, I don't think it's fair or appropriate. We ha it has to start at home. If

096you want your kid to be able to reach you during the day, as Lucia said, they can send a note to the front office. If the phone is with the kids and it's on, yeah, it's very tempting. I can barely handle myself having it here and wondering what's happening on my phone. At the community forum, I wanted desperately to touch my phone. Nothing was on the phone, but I understand my own messed up relationship to the phone. I just feel like we are looking at $1 million delta that we cannot close this year. It is not free to fix the phone problem. It is not free of teacher time, administrator time. That time has a cost. Some of the students said very forcefully that they are adults. We know enough about the human brain that

097it does not fully develop until 25, 26. So saying that you're a full-g grown adult at 18, I'm I'm so sorry young people, but I'm going to say that that's just not true. Um, the phones are designed to make you want to touch them all the time and look at them all the time and wonder. And what Ryan said about the closing the loop, I thought that was a very interesting. That was an expression I had not heard. >> But we cannot be sending phones to school with our children and expecting our educators to solve this problem. If I was a gun owner and I sent it to school, I would not expect the school to deal with the gun. It's not appropriate. In my opinion, I am but one person who has overthought this

098to a rather profound degree. I don't think it's appropriate to ask our teachers and administrators to manage this for families. It is it has a cost. I will admit I know uh Miss Simmons is in the audience tonight and she sent us some materials that I have not yet had a chance to dive into. So I understand there are people out there with solutionsbased proposals of how we can implement phone-f free schools or bell-to-bell, but we are a million dollars in the hole. Our teachers are at their max. We have cut the administration as much as we possibly can. We did this eyes wide open about the constraints that would be in front of us if we did this. Asking people to do more means something has to come off their plate. And if something

099is going to come off their plate, I would love for people to tell us what that should be. What should we do less of in order to implement a bell-to-bell phone ban? What should we do less of? What should we not fund? What else should we ask of our teachers? We are hearing all the time things that are put on these teachers and administrators desks unfunded. All the way unfunded and do it anyhow is what Olympia tells us all the time. So now our community is also asking us to do something. If y'all as a parent want to spearhead an effort and come up with a solutions-based solution for how these phones get dealt with, but if the phones come to school, the phones are going to get used. People are going to turn in

100B burners. We know that they're doing it. Whether it's a burner that a kid brought or a burner that a parent sent with them. I don't know where these burners are coming from. I have a bunch of dead phones in my house. I guess I could send my kid to school is one of those. Never once occurred to me. We have to take responsibility as parents for the devices we are putting in our kids' hands. And I don't know that we can continue to ask the schools to come up with a solution to solve this problem. If you bought the phone, it's your phone. You have 16 and 12 hours of the day. Let's hope the children are sleeping for nine of them. seven and a half hours of the day to learn to teach

101our kids how to self-regulate around these phones. And I know that's easier said than done, trust me. But I just don't think that it's an appropriate thing to ask our schools to do. >> May I speak? >> Yeah. Just a clarification of what Jun said just to understand it better. Um I I heard two different pieces near the you know, I was hearing phones don't belong in the schools pretty strongly and then near the end talking about an unfunded mandate. Um, and so I didn't have a sense of where that took you in relationship to policy. So if the mandate if if the I mean the ground swell of emails we've gotten from parents is in favor of belltobell or away for the day, right? I think we all agree the overwhelming number of emails

102says that >> um if we were to follow that ground swell and institute that as policy, there would have to be a cost associated with it. So that's what I'm talking about. If we're going to change policy to align with what um many parents are asking of us, um it is not without cost. human capital, actual dollars, time. I don't know that I've answered your question. >> So, just to put it in context a little bit, okay, it's illegal to smoke on school grounds. It's illegal to use drugs on smoke school grounds. It's illegal to bring a weapon. Let's take it the next step further, and it's I I'll use the word illegal. It's illegal to bring a cell phone to school. Luckily, we don't deal with weapons. We still deal with smoking. We deal

103with vaping. We deal with illegal substances. Now, we're going to be dealing with illegal phones. That's the unfunded mandate. I'm not suggesting that you don't put a moratorium on them or that you do. It's just going in eyes wide open. And people in our community hopefully do not knowingly send their student to school with drugs or alcohol or cigarettes. They knowingly send a cell phone to school. And if you looked at the survey, though people were fans of Away for the day, they certainly were not fans of a ban of phones. I want to be able to communicate with my student. I want my student to be able to communicate with me. So there's not this universal like just don't have phones at school. There is a universal plea for the school to take care

104of the the phones when they are at school. And that is a very different situation. Nobody I I'm not arguing that we should have more screens or that I'm not tethered to my phone. hopefully. And you know, I'm old now, so it's harder to do the technology. Anyway, um the the point of all of this is that it has to be a unified effort. The other thing that I think gets lost is we keep uh teachers did not report in their survey that they felt overwhelmed by the interruption of the cell phone. Can you speak to the surveys that were sent out? >> I Yes, we sent out a survey. The board has the results. >> Um what we found and we can certainly publish that now that the the board has seen it and

105we're talking about it. We can put those results up online happily. But the teachers um were less about the uh interruption and more about if this is one more thing I have to do, it's really going to take away from instructional time because if I have to monitor their phone use. But again, just for argument sake, the question to the teachers, to what extent do cell phones currently interfere with student engagement and learning in your classroom? 11% said not at all. 52% said slightly, 22% said moderately. So the teachers are not seeing the significant interruption. When parents were asked if teachers see a significant interruption, they said that uh 85% of the time they believed that teachers were getting interrupted um by the cell phone. And so that's a disconnect. To what extent do cell

106phones currently interfere with the student engagement in in the classroom? Parents said not at all 11%. Extremely detrimental right that I'm back on the faculty. I'm so sorry. Wait a minute. >> I'm in the high school parent one. >> Yes. Thank you. I've opened the same one. High school parents said um the misuse of of cell phones in class. None of them said never. 12% said rarely and the rest of them said at least sometimes and 20% of the people said almost constantly. That's the parent perspective on interference. And so I wonder that disconnect of those feelings around what a cell phone actually what's actually happening in class. It's not to say it doesn't happen. It's not to say there's not interruption. Um but the the contrast there just to me was kind of startling.

107Um anyway, I I'm not um saying anything that you haven't thought about or don't know. Yes, will implementation be a problem? Yes, it will. And yes, people will complain and we will do whatever the board directs us to do to our very best effort. I just expect that the board's going to do this eyes wide open because it is not without a cost. Um and it's not without You know, students, they will always find a way. They will find a way to vape in the bathroom. They will find a way to smoke on school grounds. They 10% of them, maybe even only 5%, right? Most kids want to be compliant with whatever the rules are. Um, but again, this is something that parents send them to school with. So that's the bigger issue. So how

108do we solve that? And then we say no cell phones at school. But I think this is kind of a process like I don't see this happening day one and that's it. And it's just like seat belts like smoking in restaurants. like um thing that we learn as we go. As >> you remember smoking in restaurants, you walked in, it was smoking, non-smoking, right? It took years. >> Years and until >> and also there's really no such thing as no smoking, right? It's the same thing. If a kid next to you, you didn't bring your phone, but the kid next to you has his phone, >> you effectively brought your phone, too. >> Yeah. >> And al Yeah. And also it's not just the classrooms and in the classroom during the teaching time. It is

109when they are socializing >> because I think we owe them we owe this to to you like socialize in person. They don't do it anymore and how can we help them because this is >> again I would be careful with making all ornone statements right when I look at students at lunch I see them engaging with one another. I I don't see them like this one. You know, they may be engaging over the phone, but they are engaging. >> Yeah. But we can see the difference between McMurray and and and the high school like in at McMurray because the phones are not there. they are able to engage fully and not just have and show you and let me you know or today I'm going to sit on my by myself and just going to

110and sometimes you don't even notice that 30 minutes past that's just that the danger of how >> you know what I 100% agree with everything that was said by the board tonight >> I do I agree with Jess I agree with Juniper I agree with the two of I'm I'm what my head always goes to the practical of it. It it just makes no logical sense that if this many people are upset about cell phones with kids at school that they keep letting them come to school, keep the cell phone home. And that was Brian was his name. That was the first thing he said. Leave it at home or leave it in the car. And for those who can't do that because they commute, they need to leave at the office when they come

111in and they can pick it up when they leave. >> You know, we have,300 plus students. We have about 250 commuters. >> Collecting 250 phones would be easy. I guess I want to go back and speak a little bit to the data because I hear when I look at the faculty survey, some of the things that struck me is that um one of the question was on average how many times per class period do you feel the need to redirect a student due to the visible or audible cell phone use? The h the largest percentage of responders in any bar that was 29.6% of teachers said eight times during class. You know in these classes class period time for 55 55 minutes eight times the next 25.9% seven times the next uh 18.5% five times

112and so and I also I hear the numbers that you're referring to but then I went through there were 13 teacher comments and 12 of them they they stated and I I think even 13 but I'm not going to speak to that because I lost count when I was doing that, but they spoke to the fact that there that they had to choose an answer, but it was more complicated than that. And the most um consistent statement was about the inconsistent um monitoring of the cell phones. And so that teachers felt that their colleagues were not necessarily enforcing it, right? so that it's inconsistently applied which means if you know in terms of research random reinforcement is more reinforcing than any other reinforcement. So for students, the random reinforcement reinforces kind of abusing that policy,

113but it's also the current policy asks for teachers to take time, which some of them actively acknowledge they don't do anymore because of the time to record a violation, right? To sit down, write, record, and to follow up those violations. And if they're doing if they have eight interruptions period, it's not feasible. So, I I didn't see I don't think that we should have an away for the day policy when I read the narrative. And if I implied that, that is not what I was attempting to imply. I'm just suggesting that the during the class issue is less of the issue. The bigger issue here is how do we get our families to comply? you're asking the school to do the compliance. >> And I I don't disagree with that. And I do agree that

114there needs to be a cultural evolution. To me, we have to be metal detector at the door, wand the kid. If there's a phone, you take it. >> To me, we do that. >> To me, we have to be a part of that cultural revolution. And one of the things I also have heard from parents in terms of partnering is that the the work that that McMurray has done because they're doing it. So if we're talking about an increased cost, we're talking about it just at the high school because McMurray's already doing it. Um that that with their kids, the pressure for parents to provide phones went down because it was no longer the sense that I'm at school and I'm sitting here with the three of you and you're all on your phones and

115I don't have one. you know, for the six and a half hours a day. So then I go home and I'm like, you know, parent, guardian, I I need a phone. And they were saying that pressure went down and it has been easier as a culture to push that age back. And I I know in terms of compliance right now that to me and I hear your the common sense, you know, what we need to do the ground actual tangible costs, the financial costs. I hear that. I do think that students coming from entering McMurray where it is normalized not to have the phones makes it easier to increase compliance as it moves forward and in the system because it's normalized for kids moving up through that moving up from McMurray up through the high

116school and compliance is going to be an issue to me it is not an issue not to do that and I don't I don't hear that for the real for the financial cost and the time cost right Now, I would say the time cost is affecting every one of our kids in those classrooms where eight different times in a class period a teacher is having to address the cell phones. The financial c the beginning of the day, end of the day. I know we're talking about a deficit. I know we're talking about this. I I look at this as a cost. I don't know how to figure it out, but I feel like we need to figure it out because the mental health cost um the academic focus cost and the other thing that I

117want to say is that people have mentioned the reporting and the videos and the phones. We are talking about permanent irreparable harm to a young person if a reporting is made and it is distributed because there is no getting that back. And so >> I don't think anybody's disputing that. By the way, the harms of the phones I >> but I'm saying it's a permit. We would not allow We would not allow guns in the schools. We're very clear about that and we're going to do whatever it is to make sure. And I'm just saying this to me is such a significant cost that we need to figure out how to do the financials of it or the logistics of it. And just to be clear on the data, it's there were there were eight

118respondents that said there were two times per class period. That's the number of respondents on the bottom. It's five was up to five. >> So you have 50 minute class five interruptions. There's two people that said there were five interruptions out of 27 respondents. I I know we've also heard from different teachers at that forum. Many of them said, "I don't actually have this problem as a rule." Some sometimes it's the putting the phones away and then kids taking them out again towards the end of the class period which also has a cost, right? that what one kid said, "Well, it's only three minutes at the start of class and 3 minutes at the end of class." And I said, "Well, how many minutes are in a class period?" 55. So that's six minutes out

119of 55. Well, then we've chipped away at that amount of opportunity for learning time. Other there it's not like then we get a hard whatever the math is on that 47 minutes >> where it's absolute deep learning, right? It's there's an on-ramp, you know, and an off-ramp to kind of your your capacity for deep learning at any age. So, I don't know that um that to me was not an argument that made any sense to me with students kind of on ramping and off-ramping their phones in the middle of a that to me is a thing that also doesn't make any sense. >> So, if you >> Sorry, Jess. Go ahead. >> Sorry. I was just going to say so we we teach kids people gun safety. We teach people why we don't smoke. we

120how are we teaching these kids how to control their cell phone, their habits, all of that. We're just saying you just can't bring it. And again, we're just adding more work. But I think the bigger thing here is we're not really looking, this is a building issue, not really the full policy for all schools. You're not going to ask elementary schools to turn kids to turn in their cell phones because they don't have them. So I I just think that this is more procedural than full policy level while the policy does need some updating because it hasn't been updated in a really long time. The full takeaway all the kids can we not teach them how to handle that and help class a little bit better instead? I guess I mean just part of what

121I would say to that is in I I don't know the health curriculum here so I can't speak to it but I I don't know and Stephanie maybe you know but um I would assume in health classes at some point in the middle school or the high school they probably talk about smoking and elements like that at some point I don't know but you're mentioning smoking and guns they're teaching if they teach about that they're not teaching it while bringing those to school and saying, you know, we have a open carry law in our school or open carry policy in our schools. You can bring your gun and we're going to taught you. And the other part of it you were you know you were mentioning these are tools and yes I don't disagree except

122for the fact that the research is so glaringly clear about the fact that when we are using electronics even for notetaking it is not as cognitively effective as handwriting and that what students do for the most part when they are using electronic devices is they transcribe. So they are not going through the process of learning how to listen to a lecture, listen to a conversation, discern what is important, pick out those highlights and then possibly draw an arrow to it here. There is a more dynamic cognitive process that's happening. And so you know yes I can transcribe something here or make notes but the from a learning standpoint it is much more tangible. There are to me exceptions to be made in a policy for um for health concerns or for people possibly with an

123IEP, right? There are different learning issues or health issues that do make a cell phone a necessary tool. But I don't I think if we look across the pu across the entire student population that we need to be making a policy that is looking out for the academic interests and the mental health interests um and the social interests of our students first and foremost. Any other thoughts at this time? >> I think we need to work on how to support the school to do this work. How how to how to create this cultural change in our community because it is not just school job. And how can we bring some education around this topic to you families if they don't have I think there's enough evidence and I think everybody's reading. In fact, I haven't

124heard one piece of evidence that supports having phones in our schools. I just haven't. If you guys have one, please send it. Right. and what what is what is the science telling us about bringing their home and being a good part of their experience? Um and um yeah I mean this is a lot of kids and they are minors. I guess I want to add you know I it is a community responsibility. it is a cultural responsibility. we need to be doing that work. And simultaneously to me, it is our responsibility and that we to me when I look one of the things that is telling about the phones being away for example at McMurray um what I hear is not just increased interaction here but that kids are out playing basketball or doing other

125things that they are physically moving and that >> that's Do you know that at the high school they do as well? They do. >> I just Every single McMurray parent who's been a >> part I just you're you're the McMurray parents are saying that but we didn't ask the high school students what they do during their free time. That wasn't part of the questioning and that's I think the gap we're looking at is we're making assumptions about what's not or what is happening at the high school. >> Okay. Well, I will jump to the college level. What I can say that transpired for me with students that when I began teaching and this wasn't there there was a a learning community that was created organically and when I would show up for the first week

126of classes students may not be talking to each other they might be shy this by the second week of class outside the classroom students were talking to each other and engaging by the time I left the amount of work you had to do to build that kind kind of community was, you know, that I ended up having to teach some of those social emotional skills, even teaching listening and that the amount of research that is there about the ability to have eye contact, the ability to read body language and also our ability to listen with depth. And so I expanded components of my courses having to address these various effects. And the other piece I will say that was incredibly telling to me in my last two to three years teaching documentary film production 80%

127of the films that students made were about the effects of this on their in their lives and it was devastating on their sleep on other components and so you know can I anecdotally can I confirm that my anecdotal evidence of the high school is right or wrong? No. No more so. Right. You're saying you see something different. I see something different. Can I look at all the research out there that has looked at at this in the high schools that has been definitive? And the other part that I think is just I said this the last time we've discussed it unbelievably telling is that two of the largest corporations in the world have now right been been pushed to pay settlements because it has been found definitively that what they have created and what they

128are doing is addiction. and the research. I mean, I can't imagine the amount of lawyers that they brought to bear on those cases. And if the research can topple those lawyers and those companies, >> I think that's compelling. And I don't want to punt this down the line, those effects, and I want to see a learning community. >> There's no Yeah, there's no argument on any of that. I I think we are largely not not entirely largely aligned on this. It is whose job is it to manage this and to make a learning environment to set up every possible system to make learning and student experience and student success the priority. and asking our administrators and our teachers to be phone police or to set up a system of check-ins or whatever we were whatever

129it is that we're supposed to. This one aligns beautifully with the work around just making a ban not locally but statewide just like there are bans on other things because then it becomes just don't bring it here, don't bring it to school and that makes much more sense to me. Um, I I I'm not, again, I am I am your employee. If the board makes a policy that bans cell phones from the high school or says away for the day or whatever it is, we're going to comply with that and we're going to use the resources necessary to comply with that. The bigger issue here is there is no smoking, there is no vaping, there is no drugs, there is no guns there, right? All those things are banned. And so, yeah, does that make

130life easier? Absolutely. But to make it uh this school district to school district kind of thing, yeah, you it becomes very very difficult to implement. It is what our our belief. We believe that every student success success without exception is vast collective responsibility. This is everyone's responsibility. I don't think this is just on you. I think that all >> but the but the reality is that it is right when when we implement something like this at school regardless of what the contraband is it is on us. We have to follow through. We have to met out the consequences. we have to do all the pieces to that discipline in order to make it effective and you know even then it's a struggle right so I guess the there is no easy answer um the logistic

131question is you have a policy that needs to be addressed and how do you want to do that because we don't have a model >> right now >> you feel that banning the the cell phone is easier. >> Oh, absolutely. If the state said no cell phones in school, it's easier than away for the day or I'm going to take your cell phone if I see it. It's totally easy then because then it's this is the rule. It's not my rule. It's not the school board's rule. It's the rule, right? So, when I see a kid on campus, because it happened last week, surprisingly, uh, sitting at a ball game and kid takes out a cigarette and starts to smoke. And it was like, it took me a second to be like, wait a minute,

132that's not that doesn't happen. Put that out. What are you doing? But it was it was there already, right? I didn't have to think about it. I didn't have to wonder, is it after hours? Should you have a phone? Should you not have a phone? Is it passing time? Why do you have your phone? Right. It's always easier. It's just a clearcut no gray. And I guess I mean one of the things I I agree with you fully and our state superintendent agrees as well and was furious with the legislator or this past session for punting that decision. And you know, Washington State is one of five states that doesn't have a statewide policy, which to me is abysmal. I grew up in Georgia when we were ranked in the very bottom educationally, right? And

133so I'm looking at at states that I are not aspirational for me. Sorry, Georgia. Um that have better policies than we do. And I do think >> on this >> on that on this okay clear on this >> and so I look at that and I know you're you're not saying this I think um when I think about the policing right now because because we don't have control over the statewide ban right and so what we have control over and I don't is is right here within this district right now. I do feel like each individual teacher is having to be the phone police and what I'm hearing and also hearing what seeing on their narratives in the survey and hearing from them is I did you know I was really kind of strict the

134first year but then I was the bad guy teacher and you know Lucia didn't say anything to them when they used their phones and you stopped them all the time and and so they rolled back kind of wanting to be the one to do that and also to have to ask the question that person is in the hallway. They can have their phone and I has this constant question versus if you know the phone is checked in at the beginning of the day and the end of the day, you know, it's not supposed to be there. So that policing to me gets a layer easier because I I know I shouldn't see your cell phone during the day. And right now, you know, between classes in the hallway, they're going to the bathroom, the lunch,

135the this, trying to filter that out. >> So, would you would you consider saying no cell phones at school >> on campus at all? >> Why wouldn't you do that? >> I know that it puts the cost on us. The reason I would not is because we have commuter students and I do think >> commuter students can call their parents from the phone in the office. >> So no cell phones on campus never for games for 700 p.m. game. >> I I'm asking you >> that's like my choice. You have it's you're the board, right? You could say whatever you choose to say, but if you really want to make life easy, then you say no cell phones. Just I if you haven't guessed, I'm just being devil's advocate with you because there are nuances

136to this >> that are difficult. And so I'm I'm I'm a rule follower, right? The the black and white rule is much easier to f easier to follow when you start nuancing it like well I didn't really have it out. You know, I did I I need it early because or I didn't hand it in because right then to that point, right, you kids that need it for health reasons, the kids that have in their still got these nuances and exclusions and exceptions that somebody has to actually write into an IEP into an accommodation, which is a whole different level of work on its own. I mean, and that's not guaranteed either. So, this whole big back once here when >> Yes, Jess. Absolutely correct. I hear I my so I'm voicing this so you

137can push back at it as well which is I you know I my hesitation for the full and complete ban on camp is that people you know for example my own child takes the bus from here afterwards to an afterchool activity that they get then get home from hours later and so it doesn't just mean they can't that we can't communicate during the day and that part I am fine with, but it means out in the world those buses and those other locations that they're that they're spiraling into other locations. And so uh so there are reasons that that dropped concern for me about the ability to pick up school is not because I I and if it were easy, I hear I know that it is not. You know, it was easy. You walk

138on campus, you drop your phone in, there's 100% compliance. It takes two seconds. Everybody drops them in and then everybody picks them up. I know that that's, you know, Disneyland. So, I'm not sure how to get around that factor. And short of that, then we are dealing with, you know, I appreciate Dr. else. And because he took it on, it is not without a cost. It takes up time at the beginning of the day to have kids go down to sixth period. Next year, the change is going to be teachers at the door taking up supervision time, collecting phones. Any kid who says, "I don't have a phone." They're going to get on the phone and call home and say, "Your child says they don't have a phone with them. Is that in fact true?

139That's going to take a lot of time and we hope that kids will get used to it and it won't take time or they'll, you know, the kids who find a way around will find a way around. That is time. Then all those phones are transported to whatever the last period of CL, right? They're going to be in a bin marked, you know, sixth period English or whatever it is. Then then they go retrieve go down to the classroom with those boxes. And then at the end of the day, the last period, students retrieve the phone. The high school has a different supervision requirement for teachers. So that is not going to be um it's just and you have a different again kids are they're not used to it. So it would be a change.

140So I just don't want you to think that it's um it's not going to told it will be there will be issues with it and then it's going to be what are you doing with your phone like well you know I handed in a burner phone or whatever like you shouldn't see a phone all day right that if you do that it just I I just want you to be thinking all the way through to the other side because making the rules the easy I mean, think you you just gave me a whole reason why >> Oh my god. I I You can't ban phones at school. My My kid needs his phone, >> right? >> Well, he doesn't have one, but you know, but I can imagine at a point where that after school

141activities at some point, we need to ask Dr. Mocha and her staff to give us something, right? Like, are we >> Well, you're free to write it. >> Well, we're free to write it. Uh, you know, I I clearly I'm I'm but one person. All All of us have, you know, we we we take in what the public tells us. We take in our own research. I promise students who filled out the survey and spoke at the forum, we actually were listening. Um, you know, now what what are we going to do? Um, where do we go from here? Is this where we look at a long-term impact study of what a change in this policy might actually cause the school district or what the alternatives might be as an option? >> Who's going to

142do that? I'm not I'm not trying to be >> I know I know >> who's going to do that >> the problem though, right? That's that's what we need to make the educated decision on how we change this and who are we going to put it on right now. And I know that Dr. pretty much his plate is very very um and Stephanie is cutting down to part time we're going to ask to do that. How how did we come up with that? Dr. Dr. Min, do you have any ideas? Um, if just uh agnostic of the topic, what I would do is reach out to colleagues. I would reach out to WASDA. I would look at what other districts have done. Um, you know, I'd look at our own uh McMurray policy. Um those

143are the things that that I would do and yes they would take time. Um but that is the job of the superintendent. I'm not going to act as though it's you know above and beyond. That is the job. That's if that's the the will of the board then that is the work that the superintendent does. I guess I mean one of the things I would say is that absolutely looking at other districts looking at other districts policies talking to W stuff and in terms of long-term studies as I said you know Google and meta went down because the long the research has been done and we don't need to replicate it and and the state superintendent is saying to the legislature the research has been done you have been irresponsible in in terms of creating

144I think it's the nuance though that we have to look at and and to Jess's point, right? What how do you how do you There are going to be exceptions, >> right? And I but I guess what I would say is that there are states that have had these policies implemented. There are districts that have had McMurray has also had it and has been learning from that each year. But McMurray implemented that policy. It doesn't mean to me that the learning stopped or the how or the what stopped there. And so to me I I mean to me the next part would be looking at draft policies of other districts except for we haven't agreed upon what the components would be like what is a core component upon which we as a board agree and

145without that kind of core component how do we draft a policy like I would be happy to draft a policy talking to WADA talking to other districts that have implemented these policies Actually, you know, the policy to Jess's point, Seattle implemented it because the superintendent said you will do it. There's no board policy that says you will do it. Um, it it is a procedural issue. Nobody told McMurray to do it, right? >> They saw a need and they implemented it. Nobody told the high school to do it. they saw the need from their level and implement it. You know, we could also go down the road of uh you implemented a policy, now you need to follow it, right? You need to reinforce it. You need to um make sure that it's happening. Believe

146me, this conversation is happening. It's what we're talking about, right? school district around having the same conversation. I mean, it's been in every news article I've read, having worked at the USDA. They're all having this conversation. But the bigger topic mean right now, can we afford to have this conversation? And what will the impact actually be to our schools for doing that? Because we're also telling them to do more with less again. And then we're telling them to do more and more on top of that >> and we've got to revise IEP accommodations. >> My question is can we afford not to? I mean honestly when people are bringing this in, what do I hear from students that they're sitting in school and that's where they're getting their first exposure to porn, right? They're sitting

147in school and they're having people share things with them. I uh >> right. So, we're not but we're we're not disagreeing on most of us are not disagreeing on it's how do we get there and and at what at what cost are we willing to bear on on whose back >> and who is going to also where where are the and I know this is a little ironic we've heard from a fair amount of parents but where are the parents and the families in this in in their willingness either to not send phones to school or to turn them off like I did on my kids' phone. You know, we also have to I feel like we I go back to the thing we're being asked to do something at the school. It's being put

148in our laps. There has to also be a a different level of commitment. And maybe people are making that commitment at home and parents listening to me and don't think I'm being fair. But again, if people are sending their kids to school with the phone, it can't just be our problem to solve. And so I I don't know, you know, with Mercer Island, as you know, I was in touch with them. That is a prohibitively expensive solution. Those yonder pouches, we we don't have that money. >> We do not have that money. Right. >> So like what is the what is a reasonable >> policy an enforcable policy? >> What about sitting with John Erikson and Dr. Ma and the person who's going to take a tour of this and ask them what can we

149take off your plate and how can this how do you imagine implementing this? >> I just I just took support out of the administrative coffers >> and added to their plates. So yeah, it's, you know, again, I I'm this is all about priorities. What are our priorities? Finances are about priorities, right? Time is money. All of that is where are our priorities? What would we be best? How would we best utilize the staff we have? >> This may be the number one issue. >> I believe this is a priority with safety, with mental health, with a learning community. >> Okay. So, how do you and and I'm not trying to put you on the spot. >> How are we going to measure whether or not we have, >> you know, we have anecdotal evidence at

150McMurray. They're also middle school students, very different breed than high school students. Um, but how are you going to know if what if this whatever we do, we need to figure out how we're going to measure whether or not we see improvement. Okay. I mean, one of the I just used your phone. I did, but um and I Googled couches and the cost and I compared it to our enrollment. So, basically, we're talking about a $10,000 cost. And I know we're talking about $100,000 that we did not and you know that we are talking about that gap and other gaps that $10,000 cost. >> But it's not just $10,000. It's also the additional time that we're looking at from the staff that are already working for us. It's the additional spend meetings they're going to

151have to have all this. There's a lot more cost than just that initial $10,000 that's going into them. But if you see the cost against the benefit, I think it's >> I I also just want to say and I I know that I know that you all know this. We don't work in the schools. This will not fall on our backs. And so I get it. I know that the the cost to our young people's mental health, sense of safety, sense of self, a developing self is a huge part of what we're talking about here. And also, this conversation is still all theoretical because we don't work in the buildings. I don't know what what John Ericson would tell you it would take to implement that. Maybe is that easy? >> We have had these

152conversations And it it's a daunting prospect. Can we do it? Of course we can. But other things won't get done, right? I can't give you the if we do this, we're not going to do that, right? It it's it's it's a large change and the folks at the high school at this time based on what they read you read my read maybe I'm biased I'll admit it my read is often a way if in if it was implemented with fidelity and all my colleagues did it and maybe we tweaked you know first time is the last time right I see your phone I take your phone, you're done. As opposed to first warning, second warning, I got to write it down. I put it on a spreadsheet. Maybe we tweak what we have and try

153that. >> But then we're going back into again, that's procedure. That's procedure for the high school. That's how they implement that, right? That's not overall. >> That's correct. >> Yep. >> Yeah. That is that is a solution here is that we take a policy that's 15 years old, update the language on it, and we say at the building level, you solve for this, you know, and and and then and then it's hands off from the board. That's that's no longer our purview if it's a building level implementation. >> But then we give back the responsibility to the teachers. And then we're back. >> It's always the responsibility. >> How many teachers are in the high school? >> How many teachers in the high school? >> 26 to 30 something like that. >> We had 29

154respondents. So somewhere around maybe 35 max. Sorry I don't have that off the count. >> I guess to me >> we have 80 total in the district. I know that. FT what's yeah >> I mean I I am hearing each point that people are making um and um I care deeply that what we're doing resonates with our educators for me looking at the narratives it was a lot more complicated or complex than some of numbers and one of the pieces for cost right now what I would say is the cost that we are absorbing in the districts our students are absorbing and that that is also a financial cost. How much does each student get for learning a year? How much of my learning is taken away from by these cell phones that are you

155know buzzing beside me or this or that or in other areas of the community. So there there is a cost right now and I also hear our educators saying we are managing this or we're having to consciously choose not to manage it and then that management is throughout the day. I I can't speak for the other policy, but there are kind of to me there are costs either way. And and so for me, from a policy level, not a procedure level, that policy needs to align to me with with the health research, with the vulnerabilities, with the bullying, with all of the other aspects of it. And that's That is a place because that is to me the voice, you know, is that is to me I I feel responsible to speak for our students

156in tandem with our educators and I think we're just going round and round and the board's not scheduled to make a decision tonight. I don't know how to go forward with the process. >> Um, >> I mean, it's May. We have a June meeting >> two and July and we're off. >> Nope, we don't have a July meeting with August. >> In June and August. Okay. >> Um, I'm not saying Punt, but I'm also saying we don't I don't think we're going to get anything else materially done tonight. Um, well, let me come back to you with something. It's not that I haven't heard what you said. >> Come back with something meaning with a plan. >> A proposal. A proposal. >> So, a proposal with >> you don't have a united board right now.

157So, I'm going to just come back with what I think is the best decision I can make and let you guys argue about it. >> How's that? >> What's that? >> Sounds like a good game. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, I've heard all of the stories tonight. I I have context with the administrative team. You know, we'll come up with the best thing we think we can do and then you will have to decide if that's good enough. >> Anybody object to that at this time? >> Thank you for the hard work you're going to put into that. I'm sure >> Well, I'd like to go home at some point tonight. Yes. So, >> I have a nice question. >> It's 11 11:30 here. >> Go ahead. Are you hearing any common denominator? I'm not

158saying across all four. Let's take say three. Are you hearing any common denominators in terms of aspects that you would note to inform what you're doing? And if not, that's okay. I just clearly none of us want cell phones in the hands of kids during the school day. That's a common denominator. How we get there is what we're all struggling with. This is a logistical issue. >> So, you will play with this policy. >> No, I want to come up with a plan first. Then we can worry about whether there's a policy. I, you know, again, I I need to talk to the people who are actually doing the work. I'm not going to be collecting cell phones. Neither are any of the board members. So, how are we going to do this? What's it

159going to look like? What will it take? Um what won't get done? Right? We'll see what we come up with. We're not going to solve it tonight. We can keep spinning our wheels here. But clearly, you know, you you wanted an opportunity to take all the input and have conversation. And I actually am um it's interesting to hear the differing perspectives of board members and I also think uh Martha would have something to say if she were well tonight and you know it'll give her an opportunity to speak as well. >> Thank you. Is it okay with everyone if I move on to the decision portion? Yeah. >> Um moving on. uh update uh to policy 2255, alternative learning experience programs. Um at this time, uh do I have a motion to approve policy 2255?

160>> I move to approve policy 2255. >> Um do I have a second to approve? >> Second. >> Thank you. Um, all those in favor of approving 2255, which is an update, say I. >> I. Any opposed? Any extension? >> You abstain. Is that what I heard? Thank you, Jessica. Uh, the motion passes or the policy passes. Policy 2161, special education and related services. Can I get a motion to approve, please? 2161. >> Thank you. Can I get a second, please? >> Second. >> Thank you. All those in favor of approving policy 2161, say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? >> Abstain. >> Thank you, Jessica. Abstain. Your abstension is noted. That's a word. Abstension. That's a word. Thank you. Uh, thanks everybody. That ends the decision portion of our meeting tonight. Here's an opportunity,

161a second opportunity for public comment tonight. Is there anybody here that would like to be heard? Aaron Simmons. Um, thank you for your thoughtful discussion earlier about the cell phone policy. Um, I did send an email. I don't know if you saw it. This policy could be done for $600, not 10,000. there's these rolling carts that phones get turned in and locked. So, there's a cost savings there. And I bet we could get PTO or, you know, donations to cover that so it doesn't come out of the budget. Um, another point was if you make a stricter policy of not the warning system, not checking the spreadsheet, you cut down on teacher time. First time a phone is out, it's taken. And yes, I'm sure there would be some like students who would be resistant

162and it calls for more administration, but hopefully that would get, you know, get over the hump after some of those interactions. The other suggestion that I picked up um and it's in the email I sent you, they interviewed a couple of principles. One is from a similar size high school um in Ohio as what EHS is. the first from the first infraction when it's seen it's taken from that first infraction the parent has to get the phone doesn't go home with the student the parent gets it. So that immediately brings in the parent into this situation and that their kid broke the rule. So then you have the parents attention and I think you'll have better compliance if hey, you know, the phone was taken and I had to go get your phone and blah

163blah blah. But I agree with what River was saying, you know, with commuter kids or, you know, parents needing to track their kids or whatever or the change of plans after school. I mean, there are reasons kids have to, I think, bring a phone with them when they're old enough when they have it. Um, but they need a pl get rid of it. It does. It's not needed during the day, but they do need it coming and they probably need it for where they're going afterwards. If high schoolers have a car, they leave it in the car, but everybody else it's got to have a place to go. So, the rolling lockers for high school cost of $600, I think, is doable. And those phones are gone. And then the only thing on teachers is

164taking a phone if I see it. So I think that's the simplest um procedure. Then as far as um we're working on the state level. We are I joined the that work late. We're doing work right now trying to work on the legislature, but we need your help too because the the chairs of the education committee say we don't hear any problems. So, if you're wanting the legislature to pass this as a law, please help us advocate and tell our delegation and the chairs of those committees that you want this passed, especially the chairs. Um, because that's they just everybody else wants somebody else to do it. And you hear you can ban it. I mean, yes, the legislature could do it, but you could do it for this district starting in the fall. And

165as River said, there's a ton of research already. All of us as adults are wrestling with our phones. I'd love to stop having my smartphone. So, I'll end. But I'd be happy to talk to anybody individually if I can offer more help or anything. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else for public comment tonight? >> I just want to say thank you all. I know it's been a long night. Um, something that I wanted to talk about from a special needs parent standpoint on the phones, um, that Joe pointed out and that I think Jess and Juniper pointed out and River pointed out is putting it as an accommodation in a 504 or an IEP if it's for a medical need or a developmental need, which is great. Um, getting those accommodations puts

166that pressure back on the sped staff which is already stretched super super thin to get that accommodation written and to get the gened teachers to know that okay this student this one student can have a phone in this class that's going to put that back on cuz like my son when he gets to an age will probably need that for medical safety. Um, that puts it back on the teacher of like okay he can have it but this student can't. and then a sub comes in and if the sub takes the phone because they didn't read the IEP or the 504, that's going to cause an issue. And it could also potentially have the impact of making the kids that do need it for medical reasons stand out amongst their peers even more. Um, so

167I I just wanted to bring that up with the board. um because it is a hard thing to discuss and there's not an easy quick solution to any of this and I think we all agree on the harms um of phones and of them in schools and finding that balance of all of it for all of the students including ones like my son who would need it for medical reasons and making sure sub doesn't take it from him because they didn't know I've had a sub not know that he has seizures and to watch for that and so like that worries me. Um so I just wanted to bring that to the board in your decision on any else at this time. >> Okay. Um thanks everybody for the thoughtful discussion and for your uh

168time and energy. It's been a late night. Um at this point uh moving on to the superintendent report. >> I think I've said enough. I'm good. >> You're good. Okay. Uh, director remarks. Colleagues, Jess, can I start with you? Do you have anything tonight? >> Just thank you guys for making this effort happen so that I could take this opportunity. Thank you, Peter. Good work. Um, and this has been a a really interesting conversation. Um, so I appreciate the good spirited debate here. Um, and thank you Dr. for for taking on and figuring out something to update on this. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um, thank you everyone for helping us here where we live long days. Um, and I also wanted to share that I went to my daughter is going to BC

169and I have forgot the name of the teach bag with names and I think I believe it's Miss Graham. >> No, Miss Phantom and Meteor. They did an amazing job putting together a presentation, walking parents through the rules and expectations and that was really appreciated. >> She's bringing her phone. I wish I wish she didn't because why would she need it, right? Like >> you can you can turn it off. >> Sorry. But yeah. Yes. >> And then you know, don't let I need to talk to her about that. Yeah. >> Thank you. Um, I would just say I appreciate the ongoing conversation and um that I know it's something that people feel strongly about and I'm grateful for everyone who has shown up in this conversation and I hope that people keep showing up

170in the conversation. I don't have anything tonight. Um, okay. I don't know that there's been uh any commitments made by any of us tonight. We look forward to Dr. Mocha's proposal for how to fix all this. Can't wait. It's going to be elegant and free. Uh, thanks for sticking it out, Dr. Spencer. Um, well, you want to introduce your companion there this evening? >> Am I supposed to end it? >> You can end curious to know who you are, young. >> Hi. Um, I'm Finnegan Bulls. I'm a freshman at VHS and