001A A 2 A As noticed, the purpose of tonight's hearing is to receive oral public comment on the proposed revisions to chapter 9, section 5 of the Board of Trustees policy manual regarding the use of district property. The board has previously provided for a public comment period which ran from February 20th 10th through March 27th, and all written submissions received to date are available for review on the district's website. Tonight's hearing is an additional opportunity for members of the public to provide oral input specifically related to the proposed policy revisions. The proposed changes generally address facility availability, insurance requirements, scheduling processes, and expectations for outside entities using district property. I want to emphasize a few important points for this evening. First, the hearing is for the purpose of receiving public comment. The board and district
002staff are here to listen. All oral comments will be collected, reduced to writing, and considered alongside the written submissions already received before the board takes any final action on the policy. Speakers are asked to direct their comments to the proposed revisions currently under consideration. Please note that while the policy references a fee schedule, a specific fee schedule is not being proposed or considered at this time. We have scheduled approximately 1 hour and 30 minutes for this hearing. We plan to go until 7:00 p.m. In order to allow as many individuals as possible the opportunity to speak, we ask that each speaker keep their comments concise and focused. Please come forward and form a line, and when it's your turn, please state your name for the record, and then proceed with your comments. We appreciate your
003participation and your input in tonight's process. At this time, um actually I want to make one announcement, and then we will go ahead and begin taking public comment. Um I did want to note that Trustee Humphrey is absent tonight. She had a bit of a family emergency um today, and so she called and said she just could not be here, but she will be um listening to the recording later on Zoom. So, um but she's home with her family right now. So, um at this time, we will begin taking public comment. So, just make a line in whatever order you choose. Would love to roll it. Thank you. Thank you, Chairwoman Smith. Chairwoman Smith, oh, I'm sorry. Who's the chairwoman today? Thank you, Chairwoman Smith, members of the board, council, Dr. Newton. We do appreciate
004this opportunity to speak to you. I've sent some reservation of rights to counsel today. Although we do appreciate an opportunity to speak to the board, what's contemplated by the statutes is not just an extended public hearing. It's a full hearing. Not just a public comment period, but an opportunity to cross-examine witnesses, to put people under oath, to look at the data that you've looked at, and to question that information, to present exhibits to you. It's a full hearing that we have requested and that we think are required under the rules. In addition, um I want to make a special point that we received notice uh my name is Sam Torterich. I am the attorney for CCA. Um I received notice through via email on Thursday of last week. That's Holy Week. That's the day before
005Easter that I received this notice. We've had 6 days to organize people and to prepare for this hearing. Our key person, Coach Sarah um Delay, couldn't be here today because she couldn't find uh replacement for her shift. Now, everything that's done in this statute, in this um particular area of law, the management of these facilities, it's being done in your name as a board. It's by and through your authority. There are a hundred things that happen in this school district every day that you know nothing about, that you probably don't want to know anything about. You are a part of this because this is your authority. The legislature delegated it to you. You cannot further delegate it to the administration. Because this was done over Easter, um it brought to mind the story of Pontius
006Pilate. You know, Pontius Pilate was the governor of the Roman governor, and Christ was brought before Pontius Pilate, and Pontius Pilate didn't want to do it. And I always remarked about that as a kid. He tried twice. Twice. He first tried to appease the leadership of the Jews for to hand them over Jesus as part of the custom, but they insisted that he release murderer Barabbas instead. He tried to appease the public by scourging Jesus. He said, "I can find no fault in this man." But the public cried out, "Crucify him! Crucify!" And Pilate went to wash his hands with water, and he said out loud, "I wash my hands of this." As he handed the son of God over to his authorities to be crucified. You can't just wash your hands of the authority
007that you've been given. As an adult, as a kid, I thought to myself, "That doesn't he get anything for that? He didn't really want to do it. Doesn't that mean something?" But as an adult, I've taken on leadership roles, and when you're called to be a leader, you're called to do the right thing. You're called to do the right thing regardless of whether or not it's popular, regardless of whether or not the administration wants you to do that thing, regardless of the cost you may have to pay. When you don't do the right thing, no matter how hard you wash your hands, Pilate could never remove the blood of the Messiah from them. These things are being done in your name. It was your choice to serve this notice 1 day before Easter. It's your
008choice to not have an honest conversation with the stakeholders who are most impacted by this decision. We've been doing this for 3 years, and from what I can see, we're going to do this for the next 12. There was no reason to do this over Easter weekend. There's no reason to give us 6 days notice and hold a hearing in this fashion. One of the other things that occurred to me on Easter is that there's a few things that do bother me about the situation as it's unfolded, and it's the apparent lack of accountability that probably bothers me the most. We've had a lot of people who record all of these meetings. They're all public hearings, and Dr. Crespo stood up here about 3 years ago, and she told this board this different members at
009the time, although some of you were here. She said that she looked at the policy, the policy that was en- enacted by the administration, the policy that was ruled null and void by the judge. She looked at that policy, and she said that it was paused because of COVID, and that what they were re-enacting was merely the continuation of what had been in place for 35 years. That just wasn't true. That wasn't true. We would spend 13 months of litigation. How much did we spend on that litigation? 50, 60,000 dollars in outside legal counsel to come to the conclusion that you couldn't pass the policy through the administration. It's the board who must pass those fee changes, but what they put in place was the policy that had been in place for 35 years. And
010you were required to refund the pool club all of the money that they had put in security at that time. Because the policy that had been in place for 35 years was clear. No fees. Just like many of the other policies around this state, no fees for clubs like CCA, for youth organizations. Now, you've collected CCA stood up for itself. It was in a position to do that. It did do it. You weren't charging CCA $5,000. I couldn't possibly waste my time over $5,000. It'd be cheaper to just give them $5,000. It was $35,000. It was $55,000. They have to fight for that. So, CCA stood up for itself, but what about the clubs that didn't? What about the clubs that the administration charged? They took their money, and you're holding that money now. Choices
011have consequences. Where is the accountability? Have you given any of that money back to any of those clubs? Is there any record of the money that you took in unlawfully under that policy? I can't see it in the record. I hope those checks do start going out. On August 18th, you held a meeting, and that was a very curious meeting. I will say, although I've objected to the format of this particular hearing, we are getting far closer. Notice and an opportunity to be heard. It's the fundamental aspect of due process. I know none of you are lawyers. I don't believe any of you are lawyers, but notice and an opportunity to be heard. That's what's required. And so, instead of giving us an opportunity to be heard on August 18th, you decided to record a
012meeting in which you discussed the fee schedule that you were going to implement at that time. That fee schedule raised the fees that were being charged to CCA from what was 36,000 annually to almost $55,000 a year. That was what we apparently you enacted. Now, I will say I think you guys stood up for this community when you suspended that policy. I don't think that you were being encouraged to do that by council. I don't think you were being encouraged to do that by the administration. I think you stood up for our community and you said let's pause, let's see what we're doing here. But at that meeting you put it in place. And when you put that in place, this is the information that I saw at that meeting. They said clearly that it
013was going to be incremental costs. And again, this is a recorded meeting so you can go listen to it, but it seemed to be an accepted that what we're talking about here isn't the total cost of ownership, but incremental costs. But then they proceeded to give you numbers like $252 an hour. $252 an hour. That's it's the school's open from 6:00 a.m. till 8:00 p.m. That's 14 hours a day. That's $3,500 a day to run the pool. $17,500 a week. At 50 weeks, that's $875,000 a year times three pools. Do you really think it costs 2.5 million dollars of operating costs? Just the incremental costs to operate these pools? That just doesn't pass the smell test. The gyms are even worse. My calculation on the gyms is over $4 million to run LED lights and
014sweep the floors. It doesn't pass the smell test. They said that they looked at the the review of the policies and that they were in line with what other districts in Wyoming charged. I provided to this board an analysis of all the districts that we can find that have pool clubs and what they charge those users. They what they charge those users has at most $10 a student. We saw most of the policies were absolutely no fees just like ours had been for 40 years, and some policies said $5 per athlete per month. It was a monthly charge $5 per athlete. That's what other charges. That's what other districts are paying in the state of Wyoming. So when they say that that's in line with other districts, where's the documents? Where's the evidence? We've provided
015you the fee schedules. We'll provide you with the people that you can speak to if you need it. I ask you to take that into consideration. Someone asked and verified clearly on the record. I can't tell who's speaking because it's just a video that I'm that you're watching. Someone made sure that they were not we were not being charged for custodians or for other service personnel who were already being paid. And it was clearly enunciated to this board that we would not be. That those charges would not be part of what we were billed. The very first bill that we were sent, it's included in what I emailed you yesterday, you could see it. 3:00 to 5:15, whatever that time period was somewhere around there 3:30 to to 5:00 30. I forget the exact time
016frame. We were charged, I think it's $55 and $60, something about $105 total is what I recall for personnel that you're already paying to be there. They say one thing to you, mostly full of mistruths, and then go do whatever they please. This is the history. This is what's being done here. You know, you have a fiduciary responsibility. I sent you something earlier. That responsibility is requires you to actually look at the documents. This isn't come happening in a vacuum. This is on the heels of 13 months of litigation about these very fees. You can't just take their word for it. You need to look at the documents. You need to make sure that this makes sense, and then you can make your decisions. Please look at those documents in the future. Please use your
017common sense judgment, your judgment about what this information means. What is actually happening here? You know, I see K through 12. I'm not that familiar. I haven't spent that much time in this system, but they seem to be relatively obsessed with software and consultants. I know a few software salesmen and they all make over $300,000 a year and their bread and butter K through 12. You're one of the huge biggest sectors in the software industry. When there's a problem, let's buy some software. Let's hire some consultants. We didn't have any software managing these facilities. For 40 years, we managed these facilities just fine. The people who know who's using that pool are the people who are using the pool. The athletic directors, the coaches. You add software to manage a problem that didn't exist. That
018software came with a price tag. What is it? We added administrative staff to send out bills and to keep track of all of this software. They're not working for free. And they weren't doing that at all just 5 years ago. We're adding these costs. You don't keep track of which chemicals you use in the pools. We went through discovery here. The discovery I have every reason to believe that I received full discovery on everything that that we had as a district. The all of the invoices, I've added them up. I've looked at them. You cannot exactly which pool these chemicals are for, which one's being used, what are the quantities, how are they being used. It's hard to even ascertain on an annual basis what those costs of chemicals are. The information just isn't there.
019The reason why that information isn't there is because it doesn't make sense to keep track. The cost of counting the beans is often more than the beans. That's the case here. We understand we listened to some of your public comments. You're going to hire a consultant to deal with the incremental cost. Now, I find that interesting because we all agreed that there was an incremental cost before. No consultant was offered to be hired. We just threw some numbers on a schedule. I don't know why that would change when there's a statute involved. Nevertheless, the statute was passed. That's what it says about fees. No other district, none. No other district is going to hire a consultant. This is the only one. How much are these bids coming in at? I'm just guessing this is 30,
02040, 50,000 dollars? And how is he going to do this? Exactly what kind of data is he going to need? What kind of tracking are you going to need to do before he could even do that job or she? Now, no other district is going to do that. The common sense approach here is to set the numbers at a place where they're reasonable, where no one would question it. As I said, if you had billed them $5,000 for the year, that answer is pay the bill. That's a reasonable amount. That's just the cost of putting some skin in the game. It's not a cost to try to recover $20 million that you spent on just the latest of our three swimming pools. So all of these costs that you add up, you know, am I
021reckon for my numbers and and I don't want to say that these are actual numbers. This just came from some analysis that I think is relatively incomplete, but just some back of the envelope math. $20 million to build a pool. $30,000 to fill them with water. About 20, 30,000 dollars a year for chemicals. What, $25,000 a year to heat these pools? Those are just the base operating costs whether anyone uses this pool or not. If what you have to do is spend another $20,000 to fill that pool with competitive swimmers, of course that's the answer. Of course you do it. You have it backwards. We shouldn't be paying you. You should be providing these clubs money. Other districts get it right. There's a lot of talk about Rec Mill, what this Rec Mill was. We
022almost lost the Rec Mill budget. $2 million a year. What is it? We almost lost it. If it didn't get killed in that legislation, we wouldn't get it. The people of Laramie County can't vote in a rec center when we desperately need one. They weren't going to approve a $2 million bill bill for recreation. That is money that goes to our kids. Although I object to the lack of transparency, I object to how that board is is constituted, I object to how you're sometimes using that funds, I don't object to the fact that that money's going into recreational facilities for our kids. Now, during that meeting we had discussion about how some of those fees had to be lowered because you used Rec Mill money. That's actual, not school money. That's actual taxpayer money to
023finance some of these facilities. And it seems the logic behind that is that it would be inappropriate to charge the community fees when we're using their tax money to provide that. Now, I've sent a few open records requests. Some of them have been I've been given that information. Some of that information I haven't been given. One of the things that I haven't been given is the answer to where did all this Rec Mill money go? So now those open record requests, you know, this never ends and I want to talk to you about it because sincerely, I don't want to file these lawsuits. This is a waste of my time, it's a waste of my energy, and there are no winners. There are only losers. But I'm entitled to that information. So I send a
024letter to an ombudsman, whatever the ombudsman says, if I don't get my data, off to court we go. I'm asking what we spent public tax dollars on. You almost lost the RecN because the legislature doesn't know what you're spending this money on. I believe you spent a million dollars of that money on the bulkhead for East High School. I believe you spent some of that money, tens of thousands of dollars to buy the very wrestling mats that you're now excluding users from those facilities, charging users excessive fees. So I would ask you to take a look at that RecN, find out exactly what you spent that money on, and act consistently with the fact that those are public tax dollars. As far as due process, you know, you're going to hear from some other speakers
025about the policy that's before us tonight and some of the problems, some of the legal hurdles that I have. Your policy, your board policy 02.11, that's your policy creation policy. It talks about the parent advisory committee, which I know, I can't remember who, so forgive me for not giving you the the credit. Someone fought very hard to keep the parent advisory committee alive and well. The administration at that time wanted to get rid of all of any oversight to how these policies are developed. So I thank you for standing up for some oversight in this process. And through that process, you developed 0211. It was only 3 years ago. Part of that process requires stakeholder discussion. What do the people who have a vested interest in these facilities have to say? And we see none
026of that. We haven't been asked to be involved in any of it. We the wrestling club hasn't been asked. Have the basketball clubs? Have the volleyball clubs? Where is the stakeholder input? That input is required to be given to you along with the parent advisory's comments about these policy changes by the superintendent to this board. Now in retrospect, we'll ask for all that information, so I ask for you to preserve all your emails, everything that's been going on over the last 3 years in connection with this policy, so we can take a look at all of that. To my knowledge, it hasn't been done. Our clubs, just simply, one of the largest stakeholders, hasn't been contacted at all. You're supposed to give reasons, reasons, adequate reasons for the policy change. The policy change that's before
027us today, now it was before that enrolled act 36 came into it became law. But it's interesting that it didn't include the fee schedule. The thing that we were most interested in wasn't included. Did it not exist? Have you not been working on it? Or was this just a strategic decision to roll these changes out first and roll those changes out next? I don't know. I'm I'm curious as to why both of them wouldn't come out together. Now that fee schedule is obviously irrelevant, whatever it said. We now have a statute we need to comply with, and so we'll probably address the fees according to the legislature's commands. But nevertheless, I question the strategy. I question the games. I question the lack of dialogue. This should have been solved 3 years ago, couple of weeks,
028because we're very busy. Couple of email exchanges to work out a long-term policy among the attorneys. End of story. Would have taken a couple of weeks, a few hours of time, not tens of thousands, not a hundred thousand that you're going to put between litigation and consultants. You're never going to recover that money. How does it make any sense to spend a hundred thousand to recover what? 10, 15,000? In depositions, we heard that you were hoping to collect something like the school district down in Poudre Valley collects $400,000 a year. You were thinking you might get something like 200, 250 on the backs of these kids who already paid for all of these facilities. We now know that the numbers are so far from that, it makes what we're doing, it makes the time that
029we're investing in this absurd. You're never going to collect the money that you're throwing in to this. We don't have adequate reasons for the changes that you're making tonight. What's the reason for setting, for delegating to the administration that they can just carte blanche set numbers of days? They can just decide without notice, without due process, that you're using the facility too much. And we now have no access to the board, you leave us only one option, the court. I don't want to steal someone else's thunder, so I'll let them talk about that, but there are no not enough adequate reasons for the six or seven different policy changes that you're making here tonight. And then most importantly, you cannot delegate your authority to your administration. You can't do it. I'm going to defend it,
030we're going to fight about it in court. This is your authority. You can't get out of notice and an opportunity to be heard by pushing it onto the authority. They don't have these requirements. They have no mechanism to have a formal hearing, not even a public input session. This is the problem with what you're trying to do. The legislature delegated it to you, you cannot delegate it to them. So please reconsider on those bases. I think with that, I just want to comment that, you know, intentions are not enough. You signed up for this job for some reason. You chose this mantle of leadership. I'm going to ask you to wear it and act do the hard thing. Stand up for our kids. Presumably, you didn't need something extra on your resume. There's no feather
031in your cap for doing this. I see you dedicate your time every week. I've had to sit through some of these mind-numbing meetings, and I thank you for your service for doing it. But ultimately, what was that reason? What drove you to sit on this board in the first place if it's not for the kids? If it's not for the kids who are going to be dispossessed of these facilities, there's something that doesn't smell right with all of this. What I can commit to you is that although I don't want to do any of it, I have three kids that swim, but I also have three kids that look up to their father. And even though it may come at great cost to me, I'm going to fight for them. I'm going to make sure
032that these facilities are not closed to them. If you close these facilities, my commitment to you is that it's going to be more expensive to close them than to keep them So with that, I'm going to yield. I do stand for questions. This is Chairwoman Smith, your hearing. You can dictate whatever you want in this hearing. If you want to ask questions, you're free to do so. Thank you. Thank you for your time. We're sort of in line. Hopefully that's okay. Are you recording? Do we really need the mic? Fair enough. Hi, my name is Joe Melchasky. Uh I live here in Cheyenne. I have kids in the central triad, and I'm here tonight uh as a youth basketball coach. Um spent the last few years coaching an outside group of club kids who feed
033into the central system. I've had some of these kids since kindergarten, um so we started out learning how to catch, and we're still learning how to catch in some cases. Um But I have a lot of passion around this issue, and I want to tell you why for a second. Um We don't have enough facilities in Cheyenne. I think we all know that. We never have, and that's why the school facilities are so important. I had a kid 2 years ago on our team. I always prided myself, we didn't take the best kids. We didn't just go out and recruit. At least until about the seventh grade year, we would take any kid who wanted to learn how to play, cuz I believe in basketball and team sports and things like that. And uh we
034went to play a tournament down in Colorado, and I took a couple kids out to dinner. We got our butts kicked cuz we weren't very good. And uh one of them said, "Coach, we've got a kid, I'm not going to use his name, who's posting some stuff on TikTok, you ought to see." He showed it to me, and I did need to see it. And that led me to have a conversation with the young man's parents. Probably the toughest conversation I've ever had as an adult. Imagine walking up to another father and telling him, "Hey, your kid is in some trouble here, and you need to help him." And I would have never been in that position to do that if I wasn't coaching these kids. Those kids wouldn't have been in position to bring
035me into it if they didn't have a level of trust with me that develops around being in a team sport. This stuff is really, really important. I want to talk to you a little bit about the bill that was passed. That's I call it SF90. I don't use the enrolled act number. Um so SF90, as we all understand, was passed this year. I I don't blame you for your description of it at the last uh board meeting when you gave the legislative update, but I think it missed the mark. And I get it because there was a lot of stuff going on with the legislature, but I want to talk about that a little bit because that's really where I was in this process was working with the legislature, the sponsor, the governor's office, other
036folks to get that passed. I want to talk to you a little bit about why the draft that you're looking at, your proposed draft, does not fit that. That was clearly developed in a world before SF90 was enacted into law. And I don't think the draft policy is salvageable. In fact, I know it's not. It's It's not even close. It It's It's from the before times, not the now. Uh there's a separate issue around liability insurance that I think you need to hear a little bit more about. And I want to talk a little bit about the real-world application of how hard it is for us as youth coaches to get access to these facilities. I think there's things that you're probably not seeing because you're not trying to book these facilities. Um So, SF90,
037if we can talk about that for a second. I work around legislature legislature's in my day job. I I run government affairs for a large oil and gas company. I sort of work all around the western United States doing this stuff. And I think we all know the amount of division and strife that was present in the Wyoming legislature this year. I have not seen a legislature almost anywhere. Um They did not get along on anything. I think we all read about it in the newspaper. Except for SF90. SF90 passed the Senate Committee unanimously. It passed the Senate floor unanimously. It passed the House Committee unanimously. And we had one vote go against us on the House floor. And I think that was only because the guy had the list wrong and he didn't know
038he was voting on the bill. So, as bad as this year was with all the division we were dealing with, this bill essentially passed unanimously through the committee process, through the floor process. The governor was eager to sign it. Superintendent Degenfelder came and testified. This had broad support. And I wish I had better news for you, but one of the reasons it had broad support was because legislators had heard the horror stories from parents in this county trying to rent these facilities. We got that questions from Senator Scott, Senator Schuler, Representative Brown, many others about is this a Laramie County issue? And the testimony they heard was, yes. We do see problems in other counties. Not all the other policies are perfect, but as you look at these things, generally, the bigger the district, the
039worse the policy. The smaller the district, the better the policy. We're a big district. So, we ended up with a bad policy. SF90 is It's not overselling it to say it was passed because of the way this district has handled this issue. If this district was better about this, that would never been up. We had to take floor time on in both chambers. We had to The governor had to spend time. Superintendent Degenfelder had to spend time because of the way this district handles this. I think that's important for you to know. And they didn't just spend time on it. They were unanimous. Minus one guy from Sheridan who didn't know what he was doing. I want to go through It's a short bill. As we said at the bill signing, some of the best
040policies fit on one page. That That's what this did, okay? So, basically, four things that the bill did. One, it provides that rental fees charged by a school district for the use of district property shall not exceed the hourly rate of personnel, equipment, utility, and supply costs actually incurred. That actually word is important. That is in the statute, okay? And this is the summary on the LSO's website. This isn't my interpretation of it. This is the summary that LSO generated for the people of Wyoming so they could understand what was enacted. Number two, school districts shall provide, upon request, itemized statements identifying the district's personnel, equipment, supply, and utility and cost costs incurred not more than 15 days after the request for an itemized statement. None of that transparency is included in your draft policy.
041That's one of several reasons I'm going to go through why your policy is not salvageable. It just It does not follow the statute. Three, school districts shall not require the renting entity to be a nonprofit organization or have any other specific corporate status. That's important because under your draft policy, the word organization is used. That has sometimes been interpreted interpreted, especially in this district, as requiring that youth clubs like I run be incorporated as a 501c3 or c6. They want to see actual incorporation documents. For somebody like me who has time and is experienced around this, that's not that bad. For other coaches I talked to around the state who are just trying to put six or seven kids together to go play a tournament in Laramie, they don't want to go have to set
042up bylaws, appoint officers, get a determination letter from the IRS, do with the all all the other stuff that you have to do to get 501c status. So, the legislature took that off the table. And then finally, the bill is is um has an applicability section that indicates that we can't construe to impair any contracts or agreement entered into before the effective date of the bill, which is July 1, 2026. So, that effective date is important. New laws always take effect July 1 unless it's something really unique. My assumption is you have the draft policy ready to go and you're going to try to work it and vote on it in upcoming hearing. I don't know that and you guys aren't going to respond to me. I don't know. But I think the assumption around
043lots of us is that April 20th you're going to work this. I'm begging you not to do that because it's just it sets up conflict where I don't think any is necessary. It's going to set up litigation where I don't think it's necessary. And I think if you reject that policy, and I hope you will, it would not be that hard to get a stakeholder group together with you and come to a very common sense and easy solution all this. I mean, this is not hard stuff. Um but if you enact this policy, you vote on it on the 20th and move it under the rulebook, it's going to be a real problem because it doesn't comply with the statute. So, that's what the bill does. Um I want to talk a little bit about
044the specific reasons it doesn't fit the statute. And I'm talking about your most recent policy draft just so we're all on the same page. The policy does not adopt the statutory standard that the legislature enacted. So, the law requires that fees shall not exceed actual costs. Again, that word actual is in the statute. That's not my interpretation. It's there. And it was put there on purpose during the Senate Committee. It actually wasn't in there in the original drafts and the committee felt so strongly about it, they amended it to put it in. It was one of the only amendments that happened during the entire process. So, the draft policy states that facilities will be billed for costs. The law requires that fees shall not exceed actual costs. This That's not the same thing. Those are
045not Those two things are statements are not the same. Billed for costs is vague. It So, it doesn't define actual cost. It doesn't prohibit over-recovery above your actual costs. And it doesn't limit how the costs are calculated. So, that's number one. The policy does not adopt the legal standard that now governs this. The fee structure is incompatible with the law because it relies on a board-approved fee schedule that's to be determined later, right? We don't know what the fee schedule is, so I'm not going to refer to it. But it seems clear there's going to be one. The problem with that, and the reason that does not fit the statute, is the statute requires actual cost per use. So, a fee schedule inherently standardizes pricing. What you're going to come up with is, say, $40
046an hour for a gym. You're going to say, I'm making these up, $60 an hour for custodial. But that That's just sort of a best guess. That doesn't fit the actual cost like the statute requires. So, by doing that, by using a fee schedule, you can't reflect real-time use-specific conditions. And so, you're you'd be implementing a system that is structurally inconsistent with the statute. Your draft policy has no requirements tie the fees to measurable actual costs. And the transparency was a real important piece of the bill we passed. So, nowhere does the draft policy require fees to be based on actual wages paid, actual hours worked, actual utilities consumed. It That does not exist in your draft policy. Instead, it allows preset rates, what I which I just talked about, administrative estimates, best guesses from
047the staff, and internal assumptions. So, without explicit constraints on that, this policy will necessarily produce non-compliant fees once put in practice. It just There's no way for that to comply with the statute. There's a big problem in the draft policy around mandatory staffing. And it policy calls for a district employee to be on site if we're using the gym. And I think I know why that's in there. Um Kids were younger, I coached in the city rec system. And that's largely like daycare. I mean, city rec is city rec. And I I think I know that when there were rec teams in the schools, there were probably some troubles in some of the schools. You'd have siblings show up, you know, as coaches, it was it was up to us to keep all that handled,
048and most of us did. One slips through, tears down some posters, and it turned into a big deal. What the statute contemplates is youth organizations like us, not the city rec system, having access to the schools. So, we're not talking about the schools being used as daycare facilities through a rec program. We're talking about players and families who actively choose for their kid to play on a club team that has more supervision, uh is more sophisticated in how we're what we're doing in the gyms. Um Regardless of all that, having in a a district employee present when the facilities are being used means the district controls the staffing decisions, it controls That means it controls the resulting cost. And then it passes that cost to the user. So, the law allows recovery of actual costs,
049not artificially created or inflated costs. And I think that's what you'd get by in some cases, and I don't think this is you guys, but I do think there are district staff who don't want outside groups to be in the schools. And so, it's not hard for me to imagine that they would put a different person in the school who has a higher rate to artificially inflate the cost that would then flow back to groups who want to use the schools. So, under your draft policy, there's just no safeguard against that. Personnel fees are not tied to actual cost. So, the policy, and I assume the fee schedule, would impose an hourly personnel fee outside of the business hours, but it does not require that fee to reflect actual compensation, actual benefits, actual time worked.
050So, this invites standardized pricing, which I think, as I showed you, standardized pricing doesn't fit with the statute now allows. It did before. As of July 1, it doesn't. Transparency is the big one. The statute requires itemized cost breakdowns upon request. And I think you probably got the message that those breakdowns are going to be requested. I mean, there's no avoiding that. But the policy you have in front of you has no process, no timeline, no requirement to comply. You have to mirror the statute in your policy document. Otherwise, future boards and staffs won't be governed by it. You have to mirror that language. No use-specific protections are included. The law, I can tell you with great certainty, the reason this was passed was for youth groups like the swimmers, the wrestlers, the basketball teams.
051As somebody who talked to all the legislator legislators, that's what they were doing. This policy that you're looking at treats youth groups the same as all outside entities, and we're not. So, >> [gasps] >> what we are not trying to create is a situation where you would be compelled to let a uh home show, a hot tub sale, all that stuff in your facilities. We're talking about youth groups, and your policy does not take that into effect. So, it's not implementing the the policy would not be implemented as the statute was written. It would sort of miss the core idea, which is we're trying to get youth groups in the schools. One of the last things is excessive administrative discre- discretion remains. Your policy would give the superintendent authority to set fees, limits, and rules,
052but it does not require those decisions to comply with the actual cost standard, be documented, or be reviewable. So, what that does is it puts broad discretion in your your successor's hands. And what the bill did in the legislature just did is remove that discretion. They want an actual cost. They don't want it to be subjective. So, that discretion doesn't exist, and that's why this policy doesn't work. On the liability issue, because that's in your draft policy as well. This is a hard one to deal with. I understand liability, I understand legal counsel. I deal with a lot of that. The issue that you have is that requiring youth groups to carry $1 million of liability insurance just to access your facilities is a hurdle that many folks just can't get over. So, the way
053I had to do it was attach a rider to my home policy. So, now I'm essentially putting my home at risk in order to have the ability to try to book gym time. Or, if you set up as a C C3 or C6, you can go get a liability policy, but to get a million dollars of coverage is 1,500 bucks, probably a little bit more nowadays. Some youth groups, that's no problem. Others, the guys who are just trying to grab a team to go play that tournament in Rawlins or Laramie, they shouldn't have to spend $1,500 on an insurance policy. What you should do is lean on the governmental claims act, which is already on the books, which already caps your liability. And if the lawyers aren't comfortable with that, come up with the most
054ironclad waiver you can. Draft it as tight as six lawyers can come up with. And I guarantee all of us coaches and parents will sign that waiver, no problem. We are happy to wave any rights over that stuff for access to the gym. And I've never understood why we got so hung up on this million-dollar policy. Um because it's a procedural step that is not doable for lots of families. Uh and then lastly, the real-world application of all this. So, I think the case is pretty clear that your policy doesn't work under the new statute. And I think you need to reject it, and I think you need to start the process over. Or, you need to rewrite it in such a significant way that we kind of restart the clock, and we put something
055together after July 1, cuz I doesn't make any sense to do this now when the rules are changing in whatever, 60 days. Trying to reserve facilities is almost impossible. And I don't say this is a brag, but I deal with government websites across the United States. If there is a permitting authority, a DQ, a Department of Health, uh a oil and gas conservation commission, I have a username and password on it. I can almost guarantee you. And trying to use the sys- the web system that this district has set up to reserve a gym fee is not doable, and I am really, really good at this stuff. Really good. And I would say, if you don't believe me, try to do it. Go home, pretend you're a basketball coach, and you need to practice for
056a couple weeks in one of the gyms. You will not be able to do it. You go through multiple steps, you have to wait on administrative staff to confirm that you have liability insurance, you got to upload documents. In many cases, you have to upload your insurance policy documents that have all sorts of private information. And that's before you even get let into the system to try to select times at a gym. I can navigate any government website known to man. I could not make this one work, and I tried. So, policy is one thing. Practical application is another. I think what you've heard from the legislature in a really divisive year is that they want and expect these facilities to be open to youth groups like ours. I think you need to put a
057policy in place that honors that. And not only that, I think you need to honor the spirit of the law, which is welcoming youth groups into these schools. Make it just a little bit easier for us. Put a web system together that's functional. We'll figure it out. If you can do that, then we can get together on this deal. And I think you'll have kids in the gyms, we'll have kids on team sports. And the story that I started this out with, there'll be more kids involved with more groups like that, and it'll be good for everybody. So, thanks for coming out tonight. I know it's Wednesday night, everybody's busy. It's a burden on you all to do this to do this, and I am grateful. But the last thing I want you to think
058about is rejecting the current policy, because you cannot make it compliant with the statute. So, I don't think you have any choice other than to start over. Thank you. Listen, wanted to make a note, it is 6:20. Um we've used uh 50 minutes already. So, um I I I'm expecting that all of you here would like also like to speak. So, um just be aware of the time for everyone. Good evening. My name is April Ojeda. I am here again on behalf of our youth wrestling club, Gladiator Wrestling Academy. Um but most importantly, I stand before you as a parent. I do have kids in the South Triad. Um and I'm going to bring up kind of my own concerns with this policy hopefully without duplicating previous things that have been spoken on. But, I
059do want to make a note that I stand so strongly linked arm in arm in everything that everybody has said before me in previous meetings. You've seen us all here before many, many times. I've never stepped a foot in this board room until about 8 months ago and I feel like this is a lot of my standard every other Monday. If it's not in the room, it's online. And it's for a good cause. Um the things I want to touch on today regarding the policy draft is uh summer hours, the no August use, the employees present, which I want to make a little bit of a different point than Joe. Um one exception per year per entity. You can't request more than 90 days ahead of time using the facility uh scheduler. And the requirement
060that everyone is held to use the facilities website. Could I please provide you guys an example? I have a document here. I want to go back to the October meeting that I spoke at originally. Again, regarding the facilities um site, the booking process, the requirement that supposedly everyone is held to that standard to utilize. Um Miss Burden, I spoke with you lengthy on the phone regarding what we were experiencing as a wrestling club. You requested an email. I sent that. Um I spoke on it in the October meeting that I attended and I feel like it was entirely disregarded. So, this is another example outside of wrestling of where the issues lie. What's before you is a list of the current facility schedule for the month of May. Now, this is pool specific because it
061was the most recent one I could find. However, you'll note uh highlighted in yellow, the East High School swimming pool is reserved every single day, Monday through Friday from 6:00 to 9:00 p.m. and on Saturdays from 8:30 a.m. to 8:30 p.m. All while in pink, you'll see the CCA club is only allowed Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday for a 2-hour allotted time. They do have it looks like a meet coming up on one Saturday, which is super awesome. This is the entire month of May. However, if you look at the public facilities website currently, this East High School pool is reserved clear through June, July, and August. That's far more than 90 days out like this policy stated can't be done. But, you'll say, "Well, it's just reserved. It doesn't have a club, right?" That's
062the point. So, on the very back page, you'll see a recent Facebook post from a recent from a uh it's not even a club, a local uh swimming instructor that I do want to make note since this is on recording. This is not to bash or push this person out because I think what she's doing is amazing for infants, babies, toddlers, kids. But, there is a huge discrepancy across this school district, the facilities department, the scheduling and utilization of these facilities that is not being seen or maybe it's just not being cared about. This post highlights that they were um approved the East High High pool for all of May. Conveniently, Monday through Friday 5:30 to 9:00 p.m. and Saturdays 8:30 to 8:30. But, this policy that's not quite into effect yet, right? But, even
063the current policy that's on pause also states that um the business hours, right, are 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. But, now we get to have lessons until 9:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. And uh the Saturdays, I think go I have it written here somewhere until 3:00 p.m. I believe. But, this now gets 8:30 to 8:30 on Saturdays. Every single Saturday? That's interesting that one entity can do this, but none others can. Likewise, um the employees present, right? Which Laramie County School District employee is going to be present for this entity on a Saturday from 8:30 to 8:30? Because my husband, who is the head coach of our Gladiator Wrestling Academy, is an LCSD1 employee who should have access whenever to that wrestling room and is denied consistently. I'm going to touch on this a little
064bit more, but you know, Joe says there's sometimes a lag in getting those responses um when he requests them. I got to say, we get the exact opposite. We get what I like to call rapid-fire denial. And I've never been notified by the facilities department so fast when we need to use these facilities for our club. I did highlight here um my biggest concerns on this back page as well. So, these where you're seeing just reserved, that's someone else having access to the facilities calendar. That is not requesting through the facilities site where you'll see client CCA. You'll see client Gladiator Wrestling. And this is again not the only sport that this happens to. It happens to us in wrestling, you'll note that also. This is swimming. It happens with volleyball clubs that the ADs
065have uh their own clubs and access to that calendar that they can just hold these spaces for their own. But, when the new fee schedule comes out for whatever it is, these people can keep going under the system and getting it for free for their own benefit when people who are held accountable and honest entities doing it the right way through the facilities website will be the ones charged. They're the ones held. That's what this policy's for, the honest people who have to do it. The district holidays, this policy notes um I'm not even sure what a district holiday is based on the custodial calendar because supposedly custodians are there all the time. I thought it was just a federal holiday thing. I've also been very quickly corrected by the facilities department but that that
066that's not true. However, this person can have practice on May 25th, which is Memorial Day, and May 29th, which is a Friday, no school, no other entities, but that's allowable because it's already on this calendar. Um we have on this last one, number seven here, um a communication went out last week that all outside entity badges must be returned no later than June 4th because there is no summer use. That is not even in this draft policy or the current policy that's there. So, I'm not sure where that came from. That's also part of our speculation that that the new policy or what's going to be voted on on April 20th is going to have something now that instead of even 8:00 to 3:00, which is a huge restriction in the summer, it will go
067to zero summer use. And that will 100% kill all of these clubs. Joe touched on that also. These aren't Excuse me. These are not Parks and Rec uh sports that are 8 weeks to teach your kid to to throw a ball, kick a ball, roll around on a mat. These are competitive clubs. We practice. We train all year around currently without the use of August because it's already being blocked. But, we also just attended a national dual tournament this past weekend in Iowa. We were a little bit humbled coming from Wyoming for our first time, but every single team that we wrestled outside of the state of Wyoming said they practice 365 days a year. Obviously, they're not in their school district. They're not fighting these policies. They have access. They have resources and they
068have support behind them. And they do great. They're offered these amazing opportunities and it follows through. It's not just these little kids learning and growing the sport. This means something clear into their adulthood and I'm going to touch on that a little bit as well. Can I provide another example, please? This of what you're seeing, I can also go over, but in the draft policy, um again, it says all requests for district facilities must be made through district facilities request system access through the website. We've already gone over that this is not happening. It also states though, which I have a big concern with, the superintendent or designee is delegated the authority to develop these reg to develop administrative regulations regarding the use of these facilities. I have little faith in who is already being
069designated for this. And this is what you're seeing here in front of you. The system in the is the Excuse me. Utilizing the system is the requirement, but the rapid-fire denials I spoke about earlier are the norm. It should not be based on someone else's opinion, but it should be factual in this policy and the same across the board. What you're seeing here, this first um page, is a facility request that was sent last week by my husband to hold our summer camps. This will be our fourth year to hold summer camps in the school district. We host usually two every single year and all girls one because girls wrestling, female wrestling, is growing rapidly. It's going to take over the world someday and it's going to be sooner rather than later. We hold a
070second one that's an intensive team camp. There's a team that comes all the way from Georgia. They drive here. They stay at Kurt Gowdy for 10 days and they teach our kids so much. But it's not just for us. It is for the community. We are one of three wrestling programs in Cheyenne and I think one of I was going to count this I think six in all of Laramie County. And we are the only one that bring people here. We bring Olympic athletes. We bring NCAA All-Americans to teach our kids, to grow these programs, to again provide the opportunity. So this was a request sent uh for these as we're rolling out these dates and we know there's a 90-day notice and we need to give notice and everything's about enough notice. So it's
071April 2nd. He requests this at uh at the bottom of the page there 11:10 a.m. and the rapid-fire denial comes at 11:14 saying there is no summer use. Now if you'll start from the back page because it's the first email. It's in backwards order. It's asked uh there's no summer use, but the policy states there's no use in August. We are prior users in the summer. We've held camps in the last several years. Um we did speak with the AD who asked us again to be those honest people, go through the facility website, and we have done so and we were instantly denied. I have no record in your account to use these facilities in the past. Do you have proof? Well, what kind of proof are you looking for? We have the flyers, we
072have the pictures, we have the attendance dates. I assume it's in the in the four years past of the facilities website, but I also know that you guys just updated the I can't say you guys, right? The district website was just updated. So I don't know how far back that is. Which kind of proof are you looking for? Well, every uh outside entity has a permitted number which Joe spoke a little bit. You have to go through all the rigmarole to get this um account and show the insurance and all of the things. We are a 5013C C3. Um it stated I have no record in your account. Sorry for the inconvenience. So I'd like to know where in where in the current policy and the draft policy is it even saying that there's no
073summer use and no quote unquote new entity. We are not a new entity. We have used these facilities for the past four years. We have held summer camps. This will be our fourth year. We'll find a way to make it work even if it's not in this district. Nobody could tell us. Nobody could say where is it no summer use? Right? This snippet of the current policy only says no summer use. Only says no August use. It does not say no summer. And then it keeps bringing up we should know more details after the board's decision on April 20th. What decision is already being planned for? I again asked for writing where this says because everything is only August. Even the draft policy is only in August. No response at all. Monday he says, "Can
074you please follow up?" And it's given, "I would wait until the April 20th board meeting for more information." So someone out there knows something maybe you don't or maybe you all do of what's coming on April 20th that's not in this draft policy even. And closing all of these facilities in all of summer to these kids, to every club, but allowing those that have the access to the calendar to do whatever they please is also not the answer. I would like you all to really, really think about this. And I've asked before to take a look at that public school facilities calendar. You will see the clients are those that go through the actual requirement. Those that just say reserved with no comment, no reason, no name are flying under your radar. And those that
075are going to end up having to pay are going to pay more for those that are flying under the radar. It was heard third party that there was a swim diaper found in a pool last night. That didn't come from the club competitive kids. Promise you that. And that's not what's costing. Why all of this matters and these summer camps and this facility requests and these rapid-fire denials. I'd like you all so to think back in October when we were here. You all heard from Trinity Warner. The uh first South High girls wrestling that was scouted, recruited, and offered a full ride scholarship to Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa where she is currently thriving. She loves it there. She's building a program. She's learning new skills. She's loving life as a young adult.
076She's ready to start giving back to her community where it all started only three years ago and grow female wrestling. This camp request and rapid-fire denial was for her to come back to this community and give back. Her and her head coach who scouted her. That's the reason we have these camps. Her coach came the first year and said, "I like her and she's going to be on my team." She's too young right now, but she's going to be on my team. And she came back the next summer and did that very thing when Trinity was a senior and said, "I want you. What is it going to take?" They are going to pair up this summer and come back and offer this opportunity to all young girls of Laramie County. And that's how these
077opportunities are created. But rapid-fire denials is going to continue shutting it out. They say it's not it's not a school district sponsored event. Correct. Because these teams also have to fundraise. We do have a little bit of money. We can front that money to pay that clinician to come. We can pay their airfare. We can pay their hotel to teach these kids. Because my husband is a South District coach, he offers that opportunity for those kids who we all know are already put at risk in multiple ways for no registration fee. And then opens it up to anybody else who wants to drive far and wide across the state. Why would we not want to bring in more kids? Why would we not want to say Laramie County School District, Cheyenne, these teams are so
078cool and so welcoming and they allow anybody to come learn on their dime? And we're going to continue closing it off and not providing these summer camps from these college coaches will not provide any other opportunity for these kids to be scouted, to leave Cheyenne, to do something with their life and be better than than they were here. Overall, I think um you know, administration and facilities know something that maybe you all don't or maybe you haven't been entirely put in on. Um I would also strongly recommend to revisit the facilities calendar, the processes that are and aren't happening, this draft policy, and ultimately vote it down. You guys are the ones with the power, 100%. Thank you. Thank you. It's about 6:39. So we we were serious about our 7:00 end time, but thank
079you guys for being here. I'm Amy Tordoch. I will try to be brief. I just echo to um I'm just going to go through a few points on the policy um in regards to the business hours, particularly for summer use in regards to the 6:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Last summer for us to be able to hold practice in the middle of the afternoon, um some of our coaches had to take PTO, paid time off, so they could coach our kids. That's not sustainable. That's not reasonable to expect. I don't know of any working parent that really should have that burden. Um and in particular, this is news to me tonight in regards to other um programs being approved until 8:00 on a Saturday. I think it's more than reasonable to allow us to use
080um the facilities in the evening during the summer. Um in regards to um the Sundays, holidays, and August ban, swim meets are Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. They're held over three days because the kids cannot do 10 events on a one-day meet. Um many of these events are called 500, which is 20 laps, the 1,000, and the 1,600. The kids would usually swim that on one day and then other events on the other days. And so not allowing us to have Sunday meets is really a hindrance. Um we go to mini meets down in Colorado, which for our family, we're just a swimming family, we can all go down there and make a weekend out of it. But many families have kids in multiple sports. So if you got to get Johnny to soccer and Sally
081to baseball and Fred to swimming, being able to hold meets in Cheyenne allows those families to get their kids in the pool. The goal is often to get the kids to state. And if you only let us hold one meet the month, that doesn't give the local kids that can't travel outside of Cheyenne the opportunity to compete on the the state level or above. In regards to closing for August, for some of our kids it's okay to take an a month off, but we have probably six to 10 very elite athletes that after they compete at state in March and July, they go on to the regionals and the zones events for for the entire this side of the country for lack of a better word and they need to train year round. One of
082those kids whose name I won't use because he's a minor, he just broke two Wyoming state records at 12. 12 years old. This kid could is probably going to swim for college, but he could be an Olympic athlete. You need to let him swim year round. You need to let the coach coach him year round. We can share the pool. So, if we were using a pool where you only gave us two or three lanes so that those elite athletes can swim during the time that maybe the high school kids are swimming. I don't know, but closing for August is just unacceptable for certain athletes for many many reasons. The other thing is drive past any of the high schools in August. There's park kids and or excuse me, there's cars in the parking lot.
083Cheerleading, football, volleyball, cross country, tennis and swimming is a fall sport. All of those kids are there practicing in August. So, I understand prepping for next year, but just saying that you need to close the entire facility for August doesn't make a lot of sense. When we talk about this at our club and people throw things I about the custodians needing to be on site or not, we are perfectly willing to clean up after ourselves, sweep, etc. Um, I've asked before if you would just sit down with us, talk about long-term use things, we really could come up with very workable solutions going forward. The other reason that we should be able to hold more meets is it keeps more funding here in Cheyenne. Um, Frontier Days gets all of the hype and we bend
084over backwards because of the money that it brings into our community. I am tired of driving to Gillette and giving Gillette all of my hotel and my Panera money. They don't have a Panera, but you know what I mean. So, we have to drive to all of these other places. Cheyenne could really um, be a great place. The pool at East is amazing and I don't you know know the other sports, but I really think we could do something there and that might be a way that the district could make more money on those meets. Again, if we would sit down and look at how this would work, I think we could really come up with some good solutions. The facility department is a problem and I don't know who to talk about that. I
085don't know the process of that, but you guys really need to look hard at the things that are being shared here because it really needs to change. We are not trying to be difficult. One of your back meetings that we listened to, there was a comment about that you're never going to make the swim club happy. That's not true. We we really just like you ran to serve in this capacity because you care about the kids of this district. I care about my kids and I care about the kids on my team and I'm just trying to fight for them. Please don't let the administration sell you on a bad policy. Please don't vote for a policy that's going to go against what the legislation just fought for and then we're going to have to
086fight over later. Please don't let your attorney tell you that you cannot sit down and talk to us. Just because we have an attorney doesn't mean that we would not be willing to sit down unofficially, whatever that means and continue this dialogue to get the right answers moving forward. When I pull in to practice at night and I can't get a parking spot at Central or South or one of the pools, it makes me happy. It means that all of those kids are outside or in a pool or in a gym doing something good for their bodies and their minds. I like what Joe shared regarding his opportunity of being a quote coach allowed him to connect with kids and save a kid from whatever he was able to pour into. Our head coach who
087cannot be here tonight shared with me something regarding noticing changes in one of the girls and catching some eating disorder stuff that it I won't go into the details, but these people are pouring into our kids and the more time that we give them in these school buildings, the better. It's an election year. Four of our board members are up for election and I just can picture some of you guys as you go door to door or what you're doing being able to say I fought for our kids. We voted down a fee schedule. We voted down a bad policy. We are out there. We are working with the clubs. Um, I just think cook for kids could be for a lot of people going forward and you voting down this bad policy and being
088willing to sit down at the table with the main players could be really good for those of you that have to campaign this year. Thank you for your time. Thank you. I just keep reminding about the time at 6:45. My My name is Matt Snyder. I'm a parent in the community in the South Triad. I also work with Capital City Athletics. Um, I'm going to slim down a little bit because I know one of the other guys wants to talk as well tonight. So, but I I want to maybe put our perspective in where it needs to be. I think it's easy to get caught up in the numbers and you know, the processes and and everything, but maybe just refocus what I think all of us are ultimately here for. I'm not involved with
089CCA because I'm a swimmer. You push me out of a boat, I'm going to drown. I'm there because of my kids. I have four kids. All of them are swimming. My daughter swam for South High School as a freshman this year. She qualified for state in two events because of CCA. There's no other way that she's making that outside of of Capital City Athletics. Your your facility use policy states that school property belongs to the public and should be used by community groups to the fullest extent possible when it's not needed for for school purposes. We agree with that vision and organizations like what is represented here and those who are not are not outside of that vision as well. Um, and so I want to keep the reality of what we are really talking
090about right in front of us. We are speaking for hundreds, I believe of kids and families in this community that are going to be negatively impacted if this policy and potential fee structure does pass. My family and these other families who are involved in programs like CCA, we are involved with them because they are intentionally structured to be affordable for middle and lower income structured families. That's just the reality of it. These organizations only charge what's necessary to stay to stay sustainable so that families can participate. That is it. Here in Laramie County, opportunities are already limited. When the YMCA closed, that removed yet another of only few available and affordable options for families. And now our organization is is having other organizations summer programs reach out to us and say, "Hey, there's no one
091to help teach swim lessons to young elementary kids in this town. Will you help us?" Because there's just nothing really available in this town that's realistic for for families. Right now, the school district owns the only competition competition level pools So, if access becomes more expensive, families don't just look for another option. There is no other option. Most of the families outside of what Amy was talking about the elite level swimmers, most of the families cannot afford to drive down to Fort Collins to be a part of their programs. Cannot drive over to Laramie to be a part of their programs. Families are going to be priced out of involvement in sports and organizations. In effect, that means the decisions about cost become decisions about which families can and cannot participate. This is what's at
092stake. This is what we're talking about here. This is why we've been pushing so hard for the last several years. I want to address really just a couple specific things within the policy not to restate what's already been talked about and then just kind of maybe bring us back at the end as well. Issue number one I had down was the statements about insurance bonds and barriers to participation. Joe did a great job about talking about that. I don't think I need to say anything more than if you've not sat in a non-profit organization and tried to get insurance, it is really really difficult and it is really expensive. To meet those minimums that are being required is almost undoable by most of these organizations. And so again, I would just defer to what Joe
093already talked about. Issue number two, the fee structure and use of resources. The policy places fee development under the administration administrative control with rates set through a fee schedule that will eventually be approved by the board it states. With EA 36, there's a clear opportunity before July 1 of this year to establish long-term agreements that can be grandfathered in. Additionally, the district administration is considering hiring the consultant to come in and help with addressing these increase in fees adding again additional costs to the district of potentially tens of thousands of dollars. Respectfully, not just as somebody involved in these organizations, but as a community member and as a taxpayer, this is not, I believe, the best use of our resources. You have organizations like CCA, like the others represented here, who are ready to partner
094with you now. We have been for years. We've been asking for this for for years. Instead of outsourcing the process, the district should work directly with these organizations who have been asking for long-term agreements that is predictable and sustainable and effective for these organizations and ultimately for all families in this community. Now, it would take what we have talked about with CCA, would take what we believe is about a minimum of 10 years to recoup all the dollars planned to be spent on this outside consultant fee. And it's going to be placed on clubs if the clubs are even able to survive the higher costs at all along the way. So, that's issue number two. Issue number three I want to talk about is the Rec Mill Levy and the funded facilities. It's been mentioned
095but I want to I want to again just restate it. At the August 18th, 2025 work session, the district's general counsel stated that facilities built or maintained with rec- recreation mill levy funds should not carry fees for outside users. Those funds came from taxpayers in the community with a clear purpose to provide recreational access to our community. If facilities such as portions of pools, basketball or wrestling resources were funded in whole or in part through these dollars, when restricting access or imposing significant fees is is happening, it's inconsistent with the stated purpose of what those were there for. And so, I'm asking this board, like what has been asked, to identify which facilities were funded through the Rec Mill Levy proceeds and confirm that these facilities will remain accessible to youth programs without unnecessary restrictions
096or financial burdens. And I want to end with maybe a solution possibly to to the issue. And it's been mentioned but I want to mention again. The proposed policy allows for long-term agreements to be established before July 1 of this year and grandfathered in. We are asking the district to engage in real conversations with CCA and these other organizations around the town to establish long-term agreements with a simple, sustainable model such as $5 per month per athlete use fee ongoingly for all current and future club sports. This solution has been proposed to this board and we have yet to hear back any response. This provides predictable revenue for the district. It keeps participation affordable to all families, not just those who are financially able. It eliminates unnecessary consulting fees and it builds up a trust
097and a partnership between the community and this board that can hopefully continue to build into the future. The reality is we're at a time where this board should seriously be considering its standing and its approval within the community who voted you into this position in the first place. This This policy has real impact on real families in our community and even on other organizations outside of this room who are relying on these programs to help teach basic safety and skill because there are really no other options in our town. This is no longer just about sports. It is about access and safety and opportunity. And so, the reality is if costs rise and access tightens, those opportunities don't just shift to somewhere else. We don't just go somewhere else. They disappear entirely. I am the
098guy with CCA that talks to families about the finances and what they are being charged. I am the one that they talk to first when they say they cannot afford afford the potential rise in in ongoing costs. I know it for CCA better than anybody else and I know we will lose a significant portion of our club involvement due to this. The very organizations that are ongoingly teaching and training your junior high and high school athletes will eventually disappear because of it. The current system is one where the cost determines the participation and participation determines the opportunity. And so, we're just asking you to work with us, establish long-term agreements now and ensure ongoing access to these facilities. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? I said I'd give reminders about time at 6:54 and I
099apologize that you don't have much time. Are you Just before you speak, are you ladies wanting to speak as well? We're supporting. You're here to support. Okay, good. Thank you. So, so my name is Will Westerveld. I'm the president and director of Capital City Athletics. Have been for almost the past 4 years. Um I got to be honest, I started this fight. I refused to give in to fee schedules. Refused to give in to the policy changes because of the kids that it affects. Um I'm trying to put my thoughts in your shoes as what you're thinking. Why, after almost 4 years has Laramie County School District want to continue to fight the kids of this community? I can't put into words why that has continued for so long. In conclusion, all of the policies
100point to a one-way ticket to court. All of the policy changes, all of the draft changes, that's that's all the where they're headed is to court. There's no good solution to any of them. Um Laramie County School District already spent tens of thousands of dollars fighting this policy, fighting clubs like ours, fighting clubs like Gladiators, fighting clubs like Joe's Basketball Club. Um we will not give up. And as you can see, I'm emotional about this because it's important. I've said it from the beginning, we will fight until there's no fight left. I promise you, we will fight until there is no fight left. Give the kids in the community The kids in this community are worth our fight. You cannot put a price on what these organizations provide to our community and the kids in
101this community. There is no dollar amount anywhere. When you go home tonight, look in the mirror and ask yourself, is there a price for my kids? Cuz I guarantee you you'll say no. So, in conclusion, I just wanted to say that this draft policy is not going to go anywhere good. It has no good outcome. When you go back and talk about it and you put it on paper and you figure out what you're going to do come April 20th, you really need to think hard about where this is going to go. Cuz if you approve this draft policy, it's not going to be good for anybody at all. That's all. Thank you. Thank you. We still have 3 minutes if anybody else wants to speak. All right. >> [laughter] >> Hello. Um >> [laughter]
102>> My name's Gretchen Tisthammer. So, I've lived in Cheyenne since 2008 and I grew up in Lyman, Wyoming. And just coming to this, I never knew schools were open to people. So, growing up in Lyman, Wyoming, teeny tiny town, but we had computer club. We'd go there from like, I don't know, 6:00 to 9:00 at night and play computer games. Like computer games. Like we just played. Like we went to FBLA. Like we did things in wood shop. I welded after school. I went before school and made cinnamon rolls. Like the school was the place where community came and it was open. We didn't have a gym in my town, so adults came to the school to weightlift, to play basketball. Like it was open. It was community. And I would love to see that
103here. So, I'm just passionate about that. I want a great community school for my children growing up and I'm excited to see what can come of this. So, thank you. Thank you. Gretchen, can you spell your last name for us? Oh, do you want it? Yeah. Thank you. T I S T and then hammer. Okay. Thank you. All right. Anybody else? Okay. Thank you all for taking time to be here this evening and to to share with the board. We are listening and we are hearing. I've got pages of notes as I assume that others up here do. Um I had something just to read as we closed out. I've got 2 minutes, so. Okay, so as I said, thank you for coming and sharing your thoughts tonight. The board does appreciate your time and
104effort it took to be here, but also to put your thoughts to paper and in outline and um just to share those with us. Um As noted at the beginning of the meeting, all of the oral comments we received tonight will be um documented and put in writing and then added to the comments that the board is looking at, the public comments that were previously received during that 45-day period. I'm guessing that all of you maybe commented during that time, but these these comments will they'll also just be added in their own their own line on the spreadsheet, right? Um So, we'll review those. We'll evaluate those. I'm not sure I can say that we're August or April 20th um date came from. And that is our next meeting, so it's it's feasible that we
105could um put that on the agenda, but the agenda for that meeting is not set. The board hasn't reviewed it with the superintendent. Um so, as far as I know right now, um there's there's nothing in writing saying that April 20th that there's there's a vote or discussion of the string in the board meeting. There could be, but that's that's not anything that has been determined at this point. Um so, I don't not quite sure where that came from, but um anyway, we'll take time to look through all of this before we do have a public conversation. The agendas are always noted the week before meetings. Um so, if it's going to be on an agenda April 20th or one of the meeting dates in May, um you'll see that before that time. Um but
106at this time, I would entertain a motion to adjourn um this public hearing from a board member. I second. Oh, okay. All right, we have um a motion and a second to adjourn. All in favor say I. I. Opposed. Okay. Thank you to the board for taking an extra night out this week. Thank