SCPS School Board Work Session 10/27/2025

001It's 6:30 October 27th of 2025 and I'd like to call to order the Shannido County School Board work session. The first thing I'd like to do is ask for a motion to approve the agenda as it has been presented. >> Move to approve the agenda as presented. >> Thank you, Mr. Gutshaw. A second. >> Second by Mr. Rickard. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? None opposed. And so we will move right into work session and uh going to begin with information on major capital projects. Dr. Shepard. >> Thank you. >> Well, here we go. Derek brings up the presentation. um at the first school infrastructure planning committee which is two members of the board of supervisors, two members of the school board, um the county administrator and myself, the

002discussion really centered around um the school division and the school board needs to communicate the needs of the school to the boards board of supervisors. At the last um infrastructure meeting which was this past week um we heard from Davenport um Ted Cole from Davenport who is the county's financial advisor and in front of you you will have the um presentation from Davenport and there are some extra copies up there if anyone would like them. um the presentation from Davenport that talked about the um the current financial status of the county which included um current capital um debt and current major capital debt and then um really the county's borrowing power if you will. And then also um handed out was this um sheet here that was putting a penny into perspective. And it talks

003about how one cent a 1 cent um increase in um tax revenue would would um in taxes in the tax rate would actually generate $600,000 in revenue. And then at the bottom of the sheet, you will notice that in 2026, the estimated average assessed home value is about 250,000. And it and it shows there that a penny increase would actually amount to about $25 a year additional tax in um income from from a person. or a five cent increase, you know, it would be $125 per year or $1042 per month. So, just wanted to um point these two documents out and you can take them home and and read them at your leisure and if you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. But that was the second um school infrastructure committee meeting and

004um at that meeting we we heard from the two representatives from the board of supervisors that what they're looking for is really what is it that the school board would like to do. And um in the next few slides you will see that I've I've listed a few things um a few of the things that we've talked about over the last couple of months. they would like to see um where it's going, what's going to be done and a plan for the implementation. So once we decide as a school board, once you decide as a school board what you want to have done, then um I can actually work on the three things that the committee is asking for. Where is it going to be located? Uh what's going to be done in the plan

005for implementation? So, so over the last um several months to a year, we've actually had two two separate considerations. We have the elementary school considerations and we have the triplette considerations. And these are in no particular order. So, um but this is how we'll go through them in this presentation. We've talked about a new elementary school. We've talked about re renovations andor additions of Sandy Hook Elementary School, of WW Robinson Elementary School, and of Ashby Lee Elementary School. So, I'll I'll share some information um with you um in this presentation about those those four things. And then also, we've talked about triplet tech considerations. Do we do a new career and technical facility or do we re renovate the existing um triplet tech or do we do a combination of both? So, and at the

006end of this presentation, that's when we'll have a conversation about what what you're interested in seeing happen. But please ask questions along the way. So, new elementary school, Sandy Hook Elementary School, um building capacity is 858 students. We have 829 students currently enrolled, which is about 97% capacity. You can see the uh space constraints include that the reading specialist, special ed teachers and counselors share space and then um students receiving tutoring and extra support do that in the hallways due to the limited space. Lunch starts around 10:45 and then students receive library art, music and technology once every seven days due to the space that's available for those programs. And then the traffic flow, the campus has a single entry and an exit point causing congestion during morning um drop off and afternoon pickup. Very

007similar at WW Robinson. Their capacity is a little larger at 1,147 students. Their current enrollment is 1,046 students. They're at 92% capacity. Again, the space constraints are very similar. Cafeteria schedule is very similar. You look at their specials rotation and they receive uh library art, music, technology once every eight days and the traffic flow during um morning drop off and afternoon pickup is is also very congested. When you look at our enrollment over the last 12 13 years, you see that there was a decline in enrollment. And in 2021 2022, you actually 2223 in 2022 2023 is the lowest and we've had an uptick in the two years since. And we have unofficial numbers for this year for fall enrollment. And there's a slight uptick. It's not large, but um there's a slight uptick from

008last year to this year. But then you see the housing developments that could um impact student enrollment in Strawburg. There are approximately there are 320 homes on the books and each home brings about point um about half a student. So, if those 320 homes actually come to um are built, then we'll we'll have approximately 145 students added to um our northern campus schools. In Woodstock, you see 873 homes, which would bring approximately 400 students to our to our central campus. And then Edinburg, the third 30 homes that are slated for Edinburg would bring about 14 students uh to our our central campus. >> So that is all of the information I have currently um with our new school. Um, if we have a new school, the thought would be that we would take about two

009to 300 students from Sandy Hook Elementary School, 2 to 300 students from WW Robinson, which would leave them about 600 to 700 students, and would create a new um, elementary school with about 6 to 700 students. So, all actually all four of our elementary schools, including Ashb Lee, would be about 700 student schools. 7 to 750 student schools. So when we this is similar information that we we just heard. If we think about Sandy Hook Elementary School renovation andor expansion, again, we just went over this information um a minute ago, but um some information from the RRMM facility study for Sandy Hook indicates that the school is um in in poor to let me um to fair condition. And these are just some statements um that were cut and paste directly from the RRMM study.

010And then here is the overall condition. So you can see that um there are seven items in the overall um in the RRMM study that actually are listed as poor and those include ADA compliance, code compliance for safety and security, roof systems, mechanical systems, um assessment, electrical systems, and then plumbing and food service. Down at the bottom, you'll see two areas that were fair or three areas that were fair. architectural assessment. Um going down to the bottom, hav hazardous materials assessment and then architect um exterior and interior architectural assessment. And then you'll s see three items that were that were good. So their civil, their um their roadway leading into Sandy Hook Elementary School, their structural assessment, and their fire protection system. And here are just some pictures of um some of the things that

011were in the study. Um the top thing is the canopy. Um ephus is deteriorating. The bottom left picture is just the casework, the cabinetry that's in the classrooms. The top right is the um water infiltration from the roof to the um ceilings. And then the bottom um right is the roof. And then one other uh you'll see the chilled water pump. The lower left is um the rusted exposed steel lentils and then the ceramic Wayne scotting in the upper right and the lower right is the is just an HVAC system and you'll see the condition there. So when we look at WW Robinson Elementary School, very similar to what we saw earlier and again something that was taken straight from the RRMM study. I'll just give you a minute to glance through it. And the

012second bullet point is about roofs. And then the third bullet point is about um heating and [clears throat] cooling. >> That last slide you had pulled up with the pictures. >> The one on the bottom right. >> How long has that been on the maintenance plan? Do you know? >> Because that's been like that for quite a while. So, our HVAC um are you're talking about about the capital improvement plan, our HVAC system, >> our maintenance staff should be able to address some of that in house, I would assume. >> The the condition of the unit is poor because of its age, not necessarily, you know, what is necessarily wrong with it. So, >> oh, I was just speaking of the electrical and the piping. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> So, for Robinson, you'll see where,

013you know, they have three items in the overall condition [clears throat] of poor, eight in fair, and two in good. And then here are some just some of the areas that need improvement. Now, this is a date in time. So, they went to take these pictures one day and some of the stuff has has been repaired since. Um but some of the stuff like the cabinetry which is in the lower right hand corner um that's just uh what the building has installed. Can we go back to the slide that had the good fair? [clears throat] >> Do we know what the problem is with the fire protection system in that building? I mean, that's something that we should be getting on right away. >> So, the fire protection system is fair to good. Um, and

014I know that at Sandy Hook that was replaced just rec within the last few years and that's why it was in good. So, um, the fire protection system has to be replaced every so often. >> Do we know when the last one was installed? It's not building original, is it? >> No. No. not bu not building original and no I don't know when the last time it was replaced I'd have to look in the in the assessment and then Ashb Lee while we haven't spent a lot of time talking about Ashb Lee um it was very similar it was built in 1975 and it is 80,000 square feet the building capacity is 771 students and it has 701 so they're at 91 cap% capacity capacity and if you remember um WW Robinson was at 92%

015I think it was 92% capacity um so very similar to our other two schools um our reading specialist special ed teachers and counselors share space and students receive um library art music and technology once every six days and then here are maybe um some here's is just some some things from the um Ashb Lee RRMM assessment. And you'll see in that second bullet, the second sentence, the EPDM ballasted roof appears original to portions of the original building constructed in 1973, which is approximately 51 years old. And then you'll see um the overall condition is rated five are in poor, seven are fair and then one is good. >> Quick question. Um because when we're looking at the capacity, um those numbers are different from the last time we met. Is that because they've been updated

016with new numbers or >> so then so you're talking about the um where it has 771 students [cough] >> where is it like Robinson is now at 92% capacity and actually at 91% those are higher than >> Yeah because the numbers are this year's numbers. >> Okay. And uh related to that um how do those numbers compare to the estimates that we had >> you know like like we have projected numbers of students that were going to be here. How have those been comparing in terms of have they been pretty accurate or or unders or or are the estimates underestimating how many students we're getting? >> So, I think our at least our um enrollment estimates over the last couple of years have been pretty accurate. Okay. you know, within a few students. Um, and

017we anticipate we'll grow slightly over the next couple of years, but then we'll maybe um level out. >> Okay. >> Without factoring in buildings. >> Well, and that's what I was wondering because of the building and all that. I mean, >> because we can't make a guess, right? We have to go over historical information. >> So, and that's what I was wondering. Once we're looking at the actual numbers, it seems like this ones came higher. Like >> we're more at capacity than we thought we were >> even a month ago. >> Yes, >> we have new student numbers now. So, even though they're unofficial, they're very close to what what it's going to be. >> Okay. >> And here are just a few pictures of Ashb Lee [clears throat] paving replacement. Again, water infiltration. typical

018case work in a classroom. The roof, hot water pump, another roof picture, and then um a boiler. So, any questions about the elementary schools before we move on to triplette? >> I miss it. What was the actual capacity for Sandy Hook right now? >> 97%. >> It was still 97. Okay. >> So, that one seat same. >> And Sandy Hook out of all three of our elementary schools, it was built in 1970. I didn't mention that, but yeah, it's at 97%. >> Got it. >> And um WW was 1976 and Ashley's 1975. And while there's there have been additions, there has been no major renovation of any of the three elementary schools. All right. So, Triplette Tech. So, um, Triplette Tech was built in 1966. This is the bottom bullet point. and has not undergone

019any major renovations in more than 50 years. There was a small addition in 1975 and another another small addition in the 80s, but other than that, there's been no major renovations of triplette. And you can see um that the facility condition is rated either very poor to poor condition. And again, these are just, you know, little excerpts from the RRMM study that was done last year. And you can see some of the limitations of triplette. It's um has insufficient electrical capacity. The small uh classroom size restricts the number of students that can can be in each class. And so the outdated infrastructure cannot adequate adequately support um the current program. So, one of the um examples is in culinary class um they're often flipping breakers because of the electrical load that is required um to

020run the um tools in culinary. And you'll see the um you know the second major bulleted point down there, the program demand and aca and access. Um this year we had 102 students that were not accepted into their first choice. I do not know how many um actually were turned away from triplette, but I do know for the 2425 year um 86 students were not accepted into their for first choice, but 70 75 students um were not accepted at triplet tech at all because there were there were no programs to um that they wanted to participate in or there was no slots available for them. And then in the 22 or 23 24 year it was 55 students. So if we had additional space um what would we do with that additional space? Um some

021of the programs that our students are interested in our and our community are welding, diesel mechanics, plumbing, um drone flight, unmanned aircraft systems, engineering just to name a few. There are others but these are these are some of the um most interested programs. And then here's the facility assessment for for triplet. You have eight in the poor, four in fair, know and good, none in good, and none in excellent. So most of the systems are either poor or fair. It's alarming about the fire protection system and I believe it was three of the last four [clears throat] buildings we've looked at. I mean, that right there is alarming. That should be taken care of regardless of what we're doing with the buildings. Those all should be in the good category. >> Especially triplet, it has

022like all this different electrical and mechanic and all. >> Exactly. So when you look at, you know, here are just a few pictures. It's very similar to what you what you saw earlier. Sorry, Derek, will you put that back on? I went too many slides. So, so I return to the very first slide at the very end of this so that we can talk about what we want to do. So, and I do want to mention at triplet tech, we have um we if we added a new career and technical facility, um we have a private partner who has said that she is interested in donating $5 million to that to that cause. while she would prefer it to be in the central campus. Um it, you know, that's that's a conversation that we can

023have, but she has said that she would prefer for it to be in in the central campus. So, one of the thoughts with the um the triplet tech considerations, do we renovate triplette and have some programs there and then do we build a new facility at in the Woodstock area or do we um renovate Triplette Tech where it's at where it's kind of landlocked? So, you know, so what would you like to do? and elementary considerations. Again, it's new elementary school or or any combination of of the above or the below. And one of the other things I heard from the school infrastructure committee, this isn't the whole group of of board of supervisors, but it was the two representatives there, is that we could possibly do more than one project at a time. So

024if we wanted to maybe um propose two projects, we may be able to do may be able to do them simultaneously or somewhat simultaneously. >> So how would you like to proceed? >> Are we opening it up to discussion? >> Yes. Did did all the other board members receive an email today from a teacher at triplette? Could I start by reading an email that was sent to me today? I wasn't sure if everybody got it or not. That's why I asked the question. Any opposition to me sharing this? This is from Miss Amanda Robinson. She is the head of healthc care sciences at triplet. Uh she said, "I've I've recently heard talk about the idea of potentially splitting triplet into several campuses as part of the expansion and renovation plans. I'm not sure whether this

025is just a rumor or a serious consideration, but I feel compelled to express my deep concern about this possibility. And I can confidently say that most, if not all, of our faculty share these same feelings. From a logistical standpoint, separating triplet into multiple campuses would be extremely difficult. Many of our staff members have roles that simply cannot be divided. For example, our administration and bookkeeper are essential to the daily operations of our school and could not feasibly split their time between multiple locations. Our student support teacher provides sped testing accommodations for students across several pro programs, sometimes even on the same day. Considering the current shortage and high turnover of sped teachers in our county, expecting one to travel between campuses would be both unreasonable and unsustainable. Our career counselor is another example. She provides

026dual enrollment, college admissions, scholarship, and career assistance for all students at Triplet. Her absence from any one campus would leave a noticeable gap in support. We also don't have a dedicated nurse. Instead, I serve as the first responder for our school. With my healthc care background, I'm comfortable in that role and happy to do it. But if our school were divided, I couldn't possibly be present at all campuses, which could be concerning in emergencies if others are not trained in healthcare. Beyond logistics, what makes Triplet special is our unity. We truly are a family, faculty and students alike. That was never more evident than this fall when we grieved the loss of principal Lynn and our beloved custodian Edna Strickler or when we came together just last week to support our colleague Richard Corpy after

027his home was lost in a fire. In good times and in hard times, we rally around each other because we are one community under one roof. This closeness carries into our everyday school life. Thursdays are some of my favorite days when the culinary students prepare meals for faculty. Cosmetology students get real practice by cutting our hair while auto tech students change oil, check engine lights, or just fill our tires when we are rushing between classes. Healthc care students test the vision of their peers, and it's not unusual to see students walking around with a little extra sparkle in their hair after visiting cosmetology for fairy hair. These experiences are more than fun. They create a sense of shared purpose where every program supports and celebrates the others. It's a rare and beautiful environment that makes

028triplet feel less like a school and more like a home. Splitting triplet into separate campuses would fracture that sense of belonging and collaboration that defines who we are. It would be damaging not just to the logistics of how we function dayto-day, but also to the morale of our teachers and the spirit of our students. Each summer, our late principal Lynn would send a letter to the triplet family to welcome us back for a new school year. In his final letter this past July, he wrote, "When guests come in and say, "This school just feels different than the others, the kids look happy, the teachers look happy, and they are really learning here. It's because we are all in. So maybe not something new, but a reminder and recognition that we do go all in all

029the time. Even on the hard days, we are here for our kids and for each other. That sentiment captures exactly what Triplet is all about. It's hard to imagine being allin if we are spread out and separated from one another. Most of our teachers could make more money working in our respective trades, but we stay because we love our students, our co-workers, and the sense of family that Triplet provides. Dividing our school would take away the heart of what makes it so special. I sincerely hope you'll keep this in mind when discussing the future of Triplet Tech. Please consider not just the logistics, but also the culture, unity, and human connection that make Triplet the extraordinary place that it is. Thank you so much for your time and consideration. After reading that, I ran into

030some faculty from triplet as I was getting out of my vehicle in the uh parking lot and it was stuff that I hadn't even thought of like the sped testing. I mean, what do we do? every I would have to guess that at least maybe one student from all of our uh classes that we teach at triplet either has a IEP or a 504 which would provide them accommodations for testing stuff like that. Um no matter what we do I'm for keeping triplet tech under one roof. I mean, it's going to add to transportation administration. We're trying to keep cost down and we're just adding cost that's going to carry over year to year. I have a counterveailing point of view that I'd like to share and that is that I >> [clears throat] >>

031um I fully concur that uh or understand that there's a lot of camaraderie a lot of u close feeling from being in one place and having everybody [clears throat] together. But as we look future into the future in terms of where career and technical education is going, it's going in many many directions. And uh in order to be innovative, in order to be cutting edge, in order to provide the best education for our students, we're going to have to be looking for programs that uh follow some of the new trends and some some of the things that are uh quite literally the things that are going to make our students better prepared than others in other other locales. And so if um if we have the ability to create a system that gives better healthc

032care education in a [clears throat] healthc care facility within our county. Uh if we have uh a place where the electrical grid is able to provide a greater uh sense of uh not sense of but uh capability for um welding and other other um other programs that need that kind of infrastructure. If we are looking at um whether it's aerospace, whether we're looking at um computer security, things like that, we may find that um having I I don't I don't like the term satellites, but having programs that are located at different places in the county would um would allow us to follow those particular um programs. and allow them to flourish and grow on their own. This is and and the writer of that um of that email is quite right. It's going to put

033a greater emphasis on a burden on administration and logistics from the headshed from wherever the flag is flying that's the headquarters of this. But if we are to if we ignore these public and private partnerships that could grow and help finance these programs and create these new innovative programs, we may be mired in the past because we're looking at something that could just be done in on one campus and I think that would limit our educational capabilities uh and u offerings to students who um are looking for uh and so are we. I mean, I think as uh businesses and as um educators and as citizens, taxpayers for this county, you know, we're looking at creating greater um capabilities among our students and not having a brain drain where they go elsewhere, but where they

034stay here and get that kind of uh that kind of education. Plus, we may be in kind of a rural county, but we're also one that's >> [snorts] >> um large. And um so in the ability for everybody to get to triplet every day for their their particular um course could be um could be a defining factor when somebody takes a course or not. Um, I I've heard people on this board talk about the fact that we need to have programs that are more accessible to different parts of the county and not just u not just one location. So, [clears throat] um, well, I'll just leave leave it right where it is. Do we have any data on any other school systems that have spread out their CTE over multiple campuses or satellites? So, some

035of our CTE courses are already at our high schools. Um, so like our A programs, our um business programs, marketing, family and consumer sciences are at our at our three high schools. I do not know of any other I do not have any data. I I I wanted to throw it out there because of course I it's probably not a new idea, but I can't think of any off the top of my head that split up their CTE over multiple campuses. I did speak to another potential um donor about another opportunity that may come and they said that they're um they funded previously a healthc care um where their healthc care classes were at at a local hospital. And so that you know I'm assuming and I believe that was in Lowden County but I

036haven't spoke to anybody in Lowden County about that and what that looked like. We actually began some of these conversations last year when um when it looked like if we were going to build a new building uh we would have to over that time period is being built have to relocate some of our programs in the interim so that they would operate some of the places. So you know um automobile mechanics that kind of we were building a new building. >> Exactly. Exactly. But but the point was it got us thinking in the in the realm of public private partnerships where we could go to some of these businesses and see if somebody again it just interested in students learning auto mechanics would be willing to to host that. uh and that would we realize

037at the time that was very likely to give rise to innovative thought and so forth among the students actually working you know in that field and with those folks for the year or two while we were having this you know the school build or at least that section of the school build. Now, I'm not saying that's why we decided we're thinking about building. I don't think it was, but we realized at some point, even if it's a renovation, uh, but certainly a rebuild, uh, we would have to, um, during the interimm, we're going to have to find places for these programs anyway. Uh, because we're not obviously can't keep the whole building open while the whole building is being refurbished, restored. if we didn't build the new building on the land that we owned at

038at Central. >> Well, yeah. I mean, but and even that is going to require I mean, while one section is being worked on, the people that go to school there, I mean, take classes there are going to have to either go someplace else in the building or someplace else, right? I mean, >> no. If it's a new building, it wouldn't disrupt anybody. >> Yeah. But where the students go while you're building the new building? >> The new building is on an empty piece of land. It's a brand new facility. >> So they they stay where they are right now until we build a new one. >> The kids would stay at Triplette Tech until the new building was built. Okay. So Okay. So I think we were probably thinking of if it were going to

039be renovated and sections are going to be closed at a time that we would use use it in that case. >> You know what I'm saying? I'm talking about if we were building like a brand new >> I understand. So, so that means while it's being built that two or three year period, we kind of stay as we are, right? Okay. But if we're also have if we decided to restore the building, then that decision is going to require that as we restore it, just as they did with the Pentagon when they were sectioning it off, the people in those sections had to go someplace else for a while. And we were thinking of where do we where do we send these programs? And that's one of the things we'd have to consider if we

040do that. I can. So, um, from my perspective, I think still my priority, uh, number one priority is I think we need the elementary school, the new elementary school. So, that's if I were if there was only one project, that's where I would put my vote. However, if we're going to be, uh, able to also do the triplet. Um, I know it's kind of difficult because there are so many different things to take into consideration. I think a lot of people have also an emotional attachment also to the building and there's also the fact that we don't have a whole lot of money. Um I I still think the idea of uh getting all the health care services into the hospital should happen. I think that would be very beneficial to the students themselves. Uh

041many even find employment afterwards. It would be uh also very beneficial to the people from the hospital. So I think that one we should still uh proceed with. Now the question you know remains do we stay where we are and renovate where triplet is right now or do we actually build a new building and [clears throat] take into consideration if we are only going to have one building as opposed to have the different satellites um because I know that part of the reason we were saying well we'll keep some at triplet and then build a new building um was mostly to kind of try to try to try to agree with people who have different um thoughts. You know, some people want to keep some stuff over at triplet where it is right now. And

042then some people were saying, well, we need to to build a new building. But if we were only going to have one building in addition to the hospital, then my thought would be that we would have to build a new building um over at central um for for different reasons. One, because we would need a new facility um given what Dennis just said that there could be new programs in the future. We don't know what the future brings and we could be adding uh new programs. We need an area that is going to be big enough so that we could actually grow the school um if that came to pass in the next few years. Um also I think it would be a lot more central uh both for the northern campus and central campus

043and and then the southern campus can actually just convey in that it would help alleviate a lot of the problems even with uh with the logistics because it would be right next to the hospital. So even if we had the hospital arm of it, you know, the the different satellite, it would be just a couple minutes away from central campus. So I I don't think that that would be much of a problem to have some of the staff go from one to the other. Um so from my perspective, if if if the choice was that we only should have one building itself, um then my vote would probably go um to just develop a new building in the central campus. Um, however, if there's a way that we can work it out that it makes

044more sense to just separate it and have some of the ones that we have right now at triplet, um, like the auto mechanics or all that kind of stuff that we already have that already set up in there and then have some of the other, um, cosmetology, all those over at the central campus in a building that could grow because we don't have to make the building as big if we keep it up, you know, split up like that. um then that's something that I think we should consider. I just don't know. I mean, like you said, just bringing all that up, you know, all that stuff up is stuff I hadn't really thought about. I don't know if it's really a problem that we have. I mean, how would we address those issues um

045that this teacher brought up? Um so, you know, that that's the reason why I thought the satellites would work out. But if it's something that logistically it would be really really hard, then if we had to do just one building, then my my vote would be just to do the brand new building at the central campus. >> I'm getting the stare down. [laughter] want to hear from each member. >> I find I find myself in concurrence with with Miss Carino um the new elementary school because of what it does for the benefit of two schools [snorts] and I'll have to mention the traffic on holiday. Wow, is that ever something? And also the part about u the healthc care curriculum students uh the hospital and adjoining area. As far as triplet goes, I think a

046I appreciate what the lady sent and those were things I had not thought about. I I don't want to say that. Um I think we could manage two triplets or two technical schools. When you look at the uh renovation of Triplette Tech, as you mentioned, uh you would have to acquire additional land to make it a go and you may have to make a and we have land. We have land that in Woodstock and as far as keeping the cost down, um having the land and using it and u certainly adjustments can be made in people's schedule as far as administration and IEPs, special ed, and so forth. So, I'm largely in concurrence with with what you said, Miss Carlin. Um, I think obviously there's a need for triplet and also the elementary school. Um,

047logistically, I think triplet is where the biggest unknown is right now. Now, I hate to have it pulled from the southern campus because I know that's been a main stay there. Um, I also realize that there's benefits to it being at the central campus for one reason or another. Um, I think if we had to have a new building, you know, thinking for a new building, [cough] [clears throat] it's hard to imagine a [snorts] new facility at its current location. Um, I'd like to see it, but I just can't see it. [clears throat] And I think that makes it difficult trying to move forward and build it. like it's been said, we don't have any land there at the moment. Um, and then even trying to expand on it. We know that um, you know,

048the vocational world is always changing. It's always improving, getting better. There's always, you know, things that change and you have to adjust to that. And I think if we build it to a point where you're kind of maxed out, then what do you do? So I think leaving options available for the next let's say this thing if it were to get built in five years leaving it you know room for the next 20 years in case you want to expand on new discoveries or new improvements out there. So um I'm very supportive of triplet. Um you know I see a lot of positives in it. Um, I think as of right now, if it had to be one building, it would probably be at the central campus for me. Um, you know, what we have

049to consider with this whole thing is we're talking about building a new elementary school or building a new triplet, but then you also have to remember what about the buildings we have. You know, those aren't just going to magically go from poor to great. So then you're talking about not just two projects, you're talking about four or five projects. So I think that's something we also need to remember. You know, we can snap our fingers and build a new school, but you know, WW Robinson's still going to have roof issues or whatever. Sandy Hook's still going to have issues. So I just want to keep that in mind. But, you know, the position that we're in, and I think especially over the last four years, we've tried to be good stewards of the taxpayers's dollar,

050even though we're not in that position. Um, I think a lot of school boards out there, they just kind of think just we want everything and we want, you know, no matter what, we want everything. And I think we've given a good realistic look on things over the last two to four years on what do we actually need. Superintendent when she creates her budget, it's I mean it's what we need. It's not a bunch of fluff and extra stuff to it. So, um I think we can go to the board of supervisors them knowing that we've put forward forth an effort to um you know request what we really need and obviously there's a need for some improvements and elementary school and a triplet and current issues that we have that are getting worse by

051the day. So, um, when we put this request forward to them, um, we, you know, I think we just we put what we think we need and then it comes down to their decision, um, on how to move forward with that. So, it's not an easy, you know, I think we can brainstorm [clears throat] on this, but um ultimately there's just so many moving pieces and considerations you have to make for something this significant. Um but just to finish up here uh one triplet I think would be ideal and um then the question would be what do you do with the current building because it needs to maintain remain an educational facility. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> That's something else we have to think about. We can't just you know we need to

052utilize that space if we were to to build elsewhere. Um, and then on the elementary side, you know, it's it's tough to imagine just, you know, thinking through the logistics, it's tough to imagine just renovating um or expanding the elementary schools and then that's kind of it because there's still the other issues that you have, traffic and cafeteria and probably many other things. So, it's kind of, you know, I'd love to be able to just renovate it and expand it and be done with them, but seems like that's kind of a tough challenge to just wish for that um without possibly having to build elsewhere, which we there's other land on the Maritown area that could possibly be utilized at some point. So, um yeah, those are my thoughts. >> Thank you. Tom. >> Um,

053I guess I kind of see it as three projects. Uh, and I I kind of get the new school thing. Um, how how did they do it at Sandy Hook when they had like almost 200 students more 10 years ago, 2012? How did they >> do the cafeteria? How'd they get around the cafeteria and the >> traffic? It was very similar. Um they had um but remember they had those modular units there for >> I know that that's why at first I was like >> you can add on to Sandy Hook and and and um cover those problems but then then you got the cafeteria >> you know there is you know when I was down there twice there is room to add on to it but but [clears throat] I kind of see you

054know you still have the cafeteria space problem and some other problems but then I also understand that It's also a big help to WW if there is a elementary school. Um, and how much land is in the Murray Town area? >> So, that property is owned by the county and while we've I've suggested that we may, you know, want to use that space. I'm going to say 300 acres, but I don't know how much of it will be available for school. So, I kind of see, you know, you're you're killing two [snorts] birds with one stone there with that ideal. Um, and I also see, you know, I understand the lady's email without a doubt there is, you know, being the unity of one place is a lot better. I get it. Um, so, you

055know, I understand that that theory and and and would and would love to see it stay where it is. Triplettech is triplet tech. Obviously, we know that we're constrained to kind of landlocked and things would have to change there to expand and and I'm really big about I get a little irritated with our government. We can't just expand for today. We have to expand, you know, 30 years 30 years from now or 20 or 30. We we have to expand for the future. Um, and another thing is if we utilize our land here at the central campus, I I'm also concerned is that land, which is I'm glad we have it, but are we if we utilize that land, are we going to are we shooting oursel in the foot because that land is supposed

056to be used for any of the other schools, WW or any of the house, any of the schools there. Are we using that land that we're supposed to be we're shooting ourselves in the foot down the road for schools? I mean I I don't know what's what's the theory on that. >> So that land was purchased in let's say 15 years ago 2009 a little over 15 years ago and I don't know that it had a purpose other than you know the land connects to our central campus so we can use it for future expansion very similar to the land behind um Sandy Hook Elementary School. I think it was to be used for future educational purposes. >> Yeah. But what I'm saying is >> if we use that land for CTE >> 10 years,

05715 down, are we are we going to be like, well, you know, we can't expand our any of the other three schools or anything, you know, schools because we've used that for CCT. Is that going to come back? I was I'm saying is that going to come back to haunt us? That's all. >> Well, just to make sure we're on the same page, am I correct? We have 40 acres at the same 40 acres. >> We're only talking about using 20 for new CTE. >> It's a half of it, >> right? I think when that land was purchased at the Sandy Hook area in the central campus there was some suggestion strong suggestion that and I don't know the correct title here uh grades five and six like a feeder school to alleviate crowding uh

058at those two sites because of the projected growth. Um, and that was one of the reasons that the school board and superintendent pushed the purchase of the Stickley property. And I guess that was the Gokenau property out here, but that was 2009. Thank you. [clears throat] >> I think it was 2009. >> That's close enough. So, and I'm all, you know, I don't I'm not one that I'm not I don't believe in kicking the can down the road, yet at the same time, we need to really analyze our problems and our future problems and make sure we're doing the right thing, you know, with the board of supervisors and and everybody that makes sure we do the right thing. you know, even though I don't want to kick the can down the road, we have

059we have to do something, but I want to make sure we analyze and and look at all viewpoints and make sure we do the right thing. Um, but we do have to do we got to figure it out. And um if to alleviate the pressure at Sandy Hook and WW, we have to do something with Triplette. I think everybody I think that's just a I you know you saw the numbers up there earlier in the the you know that is definitely a big part of the future is for the trades and um and obviously your slide there that shows the things in poor and I noticed the blocks there that's on the line that looks like something I would do you know could be bore could be good >> um but we have to address

060those and I think from another resource Of course, I think our facilities are a little bit worse shape than what we thought. Um, so those are the three I have to admit those are the three things that I'm interested in entertaining and looking at and we have to figure it out, you know. >> Well, we all have students or I mean we don't have students. Let me rephrase. >> Okay. Yeah. You want to tell you something you want to tell us, Larry? [laughter] >> We represent people as a county. Uh, Miss Carlo, you have constituents that go to all 10 schools. >> All of them. >> But it's just been my observation, Mr. Street, uh, that, um, Triplet, aside from this feels different and the camaraderie and the sense of family that triplet kind of

061has a, um, it's like the community takes a lot of pride in having Triplet. And I guess that goes back to the the gentleman who donated the land and the good citizen that he was. Maybe you could comment on that if my observations wrong. Won't be the first time today I've been wrong, but go ahead. >> I'm probably I hope Well, how how old do you think I am, Larry? [laughter] >> Oh, about 39. >> I don't I don't I don't know. I mean, obviously the community has the pride, you know, in that school. Um, but I I don't know the the history of the found how it started. >> Well, what I was what I the point I'm was trying to make is the you know the the two schools that the south end

062of the county would have a school that >> I don't want to say they own it or they have it. They just have a sense of identity to it. Maybe a loyalty to it. Or am I wrong? who has a loyalty to it. >> I think it's more of a community thing than than a school thing. I mean, but we see it as a county. I mean, we, you know, we see it as a county. It's for all the county students, not just, you know, the south end count students. >> So, it bears the name triplet. >> Triplet. It doesn't bear the name Frank Stober who was legendary on the north end. It's it's triplet and maybe my observation is wrong but I just sense that intuitively. >> Well, sure. >> So, are you saying

063>> which makes the case for not abandoning the existing school is what I'm saying. >> So, are you saying that the name triplet couldn't move to a new school >> new campus >> or shouldn't? >> I don't know because I get the feeling. I've talked to a lot of staff from Triplet and I have a feeling that the name Triplet isn't the building. It's the people and the family inside and if you were to move those people and that family to another facility, it would still be triplet. That's my belief from talking to the staff and and the students. I don't think the building has any bearing on it. >> Yeah. So I' I'd like to I think this is an interesting discussion. Um [clears throat] I think that the trades that we have taken

064under the rubric of triplet have flourished in that part of the county for a reason because I think that's part of the county that actually engages in most of those trades. uh not overwhelmingly but to a large extent and that the pride has grown up geographically also demographically because of because of those trades and so forth. So I think that there is a an identity uh that goes past that goes to community but also goes to function. Uh and I think that that those two things together create if you will a tradition. And so I I I personally think that's something that needs to be at least considered if if not if not a a determinant. So I I think there's something to it. uh my particular uh point of view is that well let

065me I want to talk a little bit about the ratings on the schools a little bit too here I'm [clears throat] not at all suggesting anything nasty about RRMM except that they intended to get a quite a bit of business from what their [snorts] estimates came up with after all their job is to go in and renovate and build new schools >> uh and so things were you know fair to poor and poor to fair and fair to poor and poor to fair okay and Maybe that's all true. Uh the the pictures, you know, are are obviously proof. Uh you could go around my house and take a few pictures of the my eaves and so forth. Might be a problem as well. uh I may not want you to see them but uh but

066I don't think I you know my house would be port affair and that's where like triplet came and uh I've as we have a lot of affairs that goes on that go on at triplet a lot of meetings and so forth where um people come in and say gee this place doesn't look so bad looks pretty good uh and so um you know abandoning a school that is still as a building pretty functional uh may not make a lot of sense to u to our taxpayers um especially since it it is performing a function that I I think we consider um I'll I'll use the word vital to our county and so um I' I'd be I'd be careful u be before I I would kind of dismantle that but but as I said earlier

067I I really think we we ignore uh more technical and more I hate to use word but you cutting edge modern stuff that's coming along. And we have to think about where we're where we're going to put those programs and how and also by the way how to fund those programs. They don't come under the the major building thing. So there's something else we're going to have to fund. So when we find these, we're going to have to have a few shekels left that we can actually put these programs, you know, in some building wherever that building uh is. So um so so I I go back to the point where I uh triplet is is a functioning good school that has done its job well uh can continue to do that. Uh but we

068have to look use Mr. Street's concept here looking into the future for where other programs are going to be located. Is there room in that building? are the capabilities in that building or need do we need to look out now at either another center to put them in or public private partnerships that are going to help us build those. Now that's one side of what I have to say. The other side I haven't talked about yet, which is the elementary schools. And I think Kyle makes a really strong point. When we say if we build a new Maritown elementary school, that doesn't mean the problems at Sandy Hook, WW, or Ashley are all solved. They're still there. And so now we have problem problem and a new school that we're going to build. and everybody

069isn't all the new elementary all the elementary school teachers are not going to wind up teaching at the new Maritown Elementary. That's not the way it's going to work. Plus, we're [clears throat] going to open a 10th campus, if you will, which means new roads, new access, new infrastructure, all of which is going to cost money, and we have to have a new a new um staff, which is going to be a sunk cost every year. And so, those are things we have to take a look at. So those things are part of what is going to uh increase the the uh financial burden of of of having of having of having done that. Plus once upon a time and I don't know what year it was uh Dr. Shephard, but I I know that

070there was a plan made by previous school boards uh to or a school board, I suppose, [snorts] to enlarge the three elementary extent elementary schools. And I haven't heard anybody yet talk about maybe taking that plan and bringing it forward to the fruition whereby we actually enlarge those those schools to so that they have the room inside for the students and for the programs they want to. that doesn't take away things like congestion on the roads. So that's like like none of these things I'm talking or we're talking about are things that are like problem free. You know, it's it's still going to raise, you know, some of those other problems. But I will have to say um I never ever you know as somebody's been in education all his life I I um I'd

071hate to say gee I find elementary school education more important than technical training or vice versa. I I don't want to be put in that trick box because I I I think that either either point of view is is basically wrong and and we have to do the best we can to maximize both. But I will say, you know, we only have one CTE program and it's it's hitting the point where that that program has got to flourish and follow um kind kind of these mar modern paradigms that we really have to have to have to follow even if it is new. We need to be the ones out there blazing that trail. But at the same time and um I was struck by some of your questions, Mike. Uh I I think a lot

072of things elementary schools that we that we saw pictures of are things we could fix without having to build a new school. You know, we we can enlarge we could we could renovate those, you know, without having to to to put a new school building in Maritown. Much as that would be really cool, um I don't think it solves our problem. So, >> if I can say something, um, >> because right now, I mean, the reason I'm supporting the idea of a new school is not because I think it's neat or cool. It's because we have Sandy Hook at 97% capacity. We have Robinson at 92% capacity. We have Ashpy at 91% capacity. And uh, we're talking about massive elementary schools that we have right now. I mean, this school should not be that big

073to begin with. I mean, we're talking about Robinson has capacity of almost uh, 1,200 students. I mean that that's a lot of students in an elementary school. And what we've been hearing a lot over the last year from a lot of the people mostly from Sandy Hook um is that there's no space and that they're sharing space and that they you know they don't have they don't have enough classroom space. We have in all these schools students having lunch at 10:45 in the morning. I mean that that that's just ridiculous. They can't even have enough of their um curricular uh extracurricular classes because there's no space. There's no time. So, um, adding on to that, I mean, making them larger is not going to fix the problem of the traffic, obviously. It's not going to

074fix the problem of the, um, of the lunches unless we're creating another, um, cafeteria as well. Um, it's not solving a lot of the problems that we already have here. Um, yes, like like Kyle said, we do have to still fix things and and again is part of the problem is some of this stuff has been kicked down the road, so we need to start, you know, paying attention to them right now. These are really old schools. I mean we 1970 1975 1976. Um so it's not a matter of cool it's a matter of we are growing. Um like I asked uh Dr. Shepard before this u capacity that the percentages went up a couple of percentage points from the last time we met a month ago. Um so obviously we are growing. We are

075getting a lot more construction around here. Um, and we hear from a lot of teachers who are really unhappy about this. So, I I think that that's why I put the elementary school as a as a priority because this is not something that we have that is an option. You know, I love triplettech. I think it's a great program. I think we need to invest into it. I think we need to take it seriously, but at the end of the day, that is more of an option that we're offering our kids, whereas going to elementary school is not really an option unless we want our teachers to leave, unless we our kids to go home school or go to the private schools that we don't have. Um, so that's why I thought the elementary school

076was still a priority. Um, obviously we're going to have to deal with some of the stuff that we need to fix in the old schools. Um, with regards to triplet, again, this is uh ju just taking all this into consideration was the reason why I originally supported the idea of having the the campus at in Mount Jackson um and then the other one here and that way preserving that one that building having a new building that could potentially grow as new programs come along. Um, if that's not feasible, then that's why I thought that, you know, maybe we should do the central one. That building is not going to go empty. I don't think I think we have plenty of things that we can put in there. I mean, we could put the governor school

077back in there. Um, which would allow the southern campus some breathing room as it grows as well. I mean, because right now we're talking Ashiz 91%. Um, so maybe some of those students can go back to tow Robinson. I I don't know how we're going to do that, but obviously the southern campus is also reaching is not at the critical point that the other ones are, but they're getting there as well. So, I don't think that that space is going to be um wasted. I think we're going to find ways to use it for something else uh that will be educational. So, um so again, if we could do it in separate satellites, I thought that would help, you know, uh keep some of the people on the southern [clears throat] campus happy and then

078also be looking into the future. Uh because also at the end of the day, you know, it's interesting what you were saying about the the emotional attachment that the southern campus has to the to triplet, but it's kind of like a chicken and egg problem. I mean, is it because more people go there because it's in the southern campus or is it because it is on the southern campus and a northern campus students a lot of them are discouraged from going, you know, in a bus for 45 minutes every day. So, you know, it could be I think that if we had it in a more central location that more people from the northern campus or central campus would take advantage um of the triplet and I would keep the name triplet. I I just

079think it's been used for so long and it is it's what it is. I think it's the essence of the school. Um so again these are just you know looking forward in the future how we need to grow the people who are moving in here how we already have massive schools that are really big and that are really old and that are really having a lot of issues. Um, that's why I still think we need to focus on the elementary school and then the question becomes we triplet, you know, what do we do? Do we split it up or do we just go for one campus? Uh, one or the other. I just don't see in the southern campus. I mean, unfortunately, I I know again that I didn't go there. So, I I I

080I I'll take the the attachment that people have to that school. I I take it seriously. Um, but again, it's it's very limited space to grow. even if we are able to buy the additional land which we don't have um it's giving us very small area to grow in the future um and it's also going to be very cumbersome to renovate because then we go back to the problem that Dennis originally mentioned that if you're renovating then where do you put those students so you have to like move around as you're trying to renovate an old building like that so um so again that that's why I thought split splitting it up would um help out but if not I would still be on the central uh moving the whole thing to central. Then >>

081I'd just like to go back and clarify reading that email about triplet. I was trying to get the information out there. I don't want that to be misconstrued as my priority is triplet. My priority is the new elementary school. Um, in order to properly renovate either WW Robinson or Sandy Hook, the only way to properly do it is to move students out of there into a new school, give the construction the time that it needs to properly renovate. Now, I'm saying there are issues right now that need to be fixed over the summertime, over the winter time, when the kids aren't in the building. Um, but the only way we're going to properly renovate any of our elementary schools is to alleviate the 90some percent in the building and be able to consolidate students to

082twothirds of the building or even a half of the building while the other half is being reconstructed. Um, the triplet tech, I mean, you guys know where I stand on that. Um, the funny thing is is we're hearing the the the information everybody's assuming because it's on the southern end that Stonewall is somehow tied to it. This year, there's less students from Stonewall going there than there are from the other two campuses. Um, granted, I believe I was told that's the first year that this has happened. Um, but there's less of a less of less attachment there than what we what we all thought. >> That kind of points to the fact that students from the Northern campus do want to go there. >> Oh, they do. There's parents that won't let their kids go

083there because they'll miss instructional time at their home school. Um, and due to the bus rescheduling, I don't know whether it happened last year or two years ago, now the northern end kids that are going to triplet, they're getting a 10-minute lunch when they get back to the high school. Um, so they're missing out on lunch. Uh, the teachers will tell you they're missing out on about 10 minutes of instructional time first thing in the morning, uh, because they're getting there late. Um, so that equates out to almost an hour of instructional time per week. That's the students going from the >> going from Strawburg >> down to triplet. Um >> I mean if we're going to do two at the same time, I'm for the new triplet at Central, the new elementary school. If

084we only have to pick one or can only pick one, we got to go with the new elementary school. That's where our priority should be. Um I love triplet. I want to see it expand. Heck, I want to see it so that it's ready for the next 50 years. Um, talking to the teachers, the teachers aren't opposed to moving to the central campus. Um, something to do with the the existing triplet tech. Have we thought about adult education classes um and bringing in revenue to have adult education there in the evening time? So, while we haven't thought um a lot about what we would do with Triplet if we vacated it because we don't know that that's, you know, available yet, um our maintenance and transportation could move there. It it could serve many um

085governor school could move there. It could serve many functions. >> Oh, [snorts] my priority is [clears throat] the new elementary school. I mean, you go through our our elementary schools and see the dire situation that they're in. To me, that's a no-brainer. I would love for a new triplet tech, but we got to take care of our elementary schools first. Anybody else? >> All right, we'll move on to um item 2.2. >> Actually, so when do we have to make this decision by? I'm sorry. So, we'll put um on the November 12th meeting. >> Okay. >> We'll put an action item on there. Yeah. >> At our meeting this past week, I proposed that we have that meeting with them as soon as possible. Was there a date? >> We have not We have not

086set a date yet, >> but we proposed sometime in mid November. >> Yeah. M. >> So yeah, we we would need a decision from our board to take to them hopefully mid November because I don't want us dragging our feet on this. We need to get moving. Also, um Dr. Shepard, it it's going to be an interesting exercise to come up with an action item. >> Yes. >> Um [snorts] because there are a lot of permutations we >> to this. So, um, uh, I'm with Mike on trying to get a little bit more, um, I don't know, >> Clarity is there's a good word, um, on this be as we try as we try to come up with what would be an action item. So, um I don't know if we I mean we can

087just have debate that evening and come up with one. Uh or um there can be some but but if that's But did you say that was what what what date? >> I'm going to say November the 12th. Um, it's a Wednesday, [snorts] >> but I'm on the assumption November 12th. >> We're still trying to figure out what all the options are. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. There there are a lot of variables in this in this mix. >> Well, you talked to all of us. Do you have the consensus that we can >> just narrow it down to that? So, what I think I've heard, um, I could be wrong, is there are definitely three for a new elementary school. Um, but I'm still unclear about, uh, the other three. Um, and some school

088board members are interested in having more of a satellite type ormies. And some have mentioned here that they would like to have um a new triplet tech at the center um at the central campus. So I've heard both and I think it's really going to have to be two separate motions um so that we can get because if you tie the two together I don't think it's going to be clear. So maybe do the vote on elementary first and then move on to the triplet. >> Do you dis >> I would like to see again somewhere in there the option to proceed with the planned enlargement of the three elementary schools. >> So >> if you can uh >> how many >> I don't feel are we talking about voting? I don't feel comfortable voting

089on anything. So before we can move forward with what the board of supervisors wants us to do, we have to have clarity on what the school board is interested in doing. And we, you know, while we had option C back in March, >> March um which said new triplet, what did it? >> It said new elementary school. >> New triplet new elementary school in the same year. And then it had the renovation of the three elementary schools in the years that followed >> after that. So now we need real consensus on what the or I don't even know if it needs to be consensus. We need there to be clarity on what the school board is interested in doing because before we're able to apply for any any construction grants, we have to be shovel

090ready. And there's no way to be shovel ready unless we have committed to what projects we want to have done. So what would help you decide which program which which item option you would prefer? What information do you need? >> Well, you put it it's actually a lot simpler if you just say what do we what we would what would we like to see? >> That kind of changes things a little bit. Um, >> you said option C was a elementary school, something done with Triple Tech, and then >> the renovations of the three elementary schools. >> Mhm. >> After that, >> um, they, you know, kind of in general, that's I'm still, you know, that's still, you know, like I said earlier, I think all three things had to be done. >> We had

091to figure it out, you know, we had to figure out how to do it. I don't know. Otherwise, we're just kicking the can down the road. >> The board of supervisors wants to know where we need the majority for big CIP projects, where our board wants the major source of funding. Do we think the new elementary school is the priority? Um, do we think building a new triplet tech is the priority? Granted, Dennis Morris, who is one of the board of supervisors, him and I had a talk at uh Rockingham Co-op one day. This was just him and I. He said, "Mike, keep in mind, and I heard somebody else say it here tonight, we're not opposed to doing two projects at one time." Now, that was Dennis speaking for himself to me. Um, but

092somebody else said tonight when Carl and Tim were at the other meeting, they've pretty much made the same statement that they're not opposed to doing two projects at the same time. Um, we have to go to them and say this is what the majority of our board would like and then they'll help us in figuring out where we're going to get the funding from to do it. >> Yeah. As long as we keep just talking about it, [clears throat] there's no clarity for them to help make a decision on where we're going to get the funding from, how much funding we can get, and what we're going to do. >> Yeah. And that's why, you know, I just want to make sure we discuss it enough to really look at every angle and and, you

093know, new elementary school, you know, the logistics, you know, does that work out with busing? >> You know, does that work? Uh, and and I can see easing the tension, the pressure off, you know, two schools, not just Sandy Hook, but but really got my attention, I guess I have to admit, got my you realize and the more you, you know, you talk about things and think about things, you you kind of see a different angle and and I understand, you know, it also helps WW and and I also understand probably we all know it's not a good thing to increase elementary schools. If anything, we should decrease. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Um, if we're looking out for the kid, what's best for the kids? Um, >> so, you know, I get that. And then,

094like I said before, you know, triplet tech deal, you know, yeah, I would love to see where it is, but we really have to analyze what's best for the kids, what's best for the taxpayers, what's best for the 20 next 20, not just now, but the next 20, 30 years. You know, I just want to make sure we really get look at that >> when if you really think I'm sorry. If you really think about um the age of our schools, it's not 20 or 30 years. It's to 60 years, you know, this this facility is going to be around. >> I like your thinking. >> Instead of 30, let's think. Is that 50 or 60? >> Because our elementary schools are 50 50 some years old. 54 >> 1970. Yeah. 50. >> You know,

095it's it's hard to come up with a priority, a set of priorities when we don't have really much of an idea of cost. >> Well, we've been >> that was never under maybe I'm wrong under the interpretation that they wanted your our priorities or a number one priority quote unquote. I thought that they were wanting what what do you need? meaning [clears throat] you can put triplet and elementary as number one comma number you know and there's another thing so that's just how I've interpreted it and again at the end of the day we can ask for anything we want we we aren't the ones that have to worry about the financial impacts of that um it's good that we do because it shows that we care about the financial aspects of things but you

096know I I would much rather I'd be more inclined at that meeting to be able to say I support this versus this is my top priority and then put something else below it. I'm not big on that. But um because at the end of the day they get to pick anyways. We could say both of them and they get to pick. So that could be our priority and it gets over there and that priority means nothing because of the financial or logistical outlook on it. Um, so that's just a thought on how we could I don't know try to word that. >> No, I I I totally agree with you, Kyle. And that's the way I take it. What do you need? >> Yeah. >> Not a priority. >> And this is what we need,

097you know, so this is what we need. But what also I want to send along with that is I don't want to send a list of, oh yeah, this is what we need, you know, all this. No, I want to send a list of the reality. this is what we need realistically and also this is why we need it and this is our view and this is what we see now this is what we see in the future in other words reasons to back up you know what we need >> and I think we have a good enough relationship with them that they know that we're what we're asking for like I said earlier is what we need versus a wish list >> I think we need to keep in mind though correct me if

098I'm wrong the fire chief the sheriff of the library. They go to the county with their specific needs and priorities. Correct. >> That's correct. >> So, I think we need to do the same. Tell them we need a new elementary school if that's what the majority of us want. That is our priority. So, it's clear. I mean, they told us in the first meeting we had, we really don't know what you clearly want. And I was like, Dr. Shepherd does a pretty good job come bud budget season season of making sure our CIP is pretty clear in what we need, what's urgent, what's necessary. Um, but they don't see it. They they want priorities. >> That's why I say we need to also along with that say why. >> Right. >> I'd like to follow

099up on Mr. Rickert's comments and something I heard on that side of the room. At the risk of being a devil's advocate or just a plain devil, I'm capable of either one. Um, how is what we're discussing here tonight any different than the option C that we handed off back in the spring? And at least onethird of the board of supervisors either weren't paying attention or deny it its existence. >> Floor is open for discussion. I >> I would like to I'd like to put a second on Larry's question. Well, true, >> but I think that's why we need to be more empathetic. That's why we need to say this is our priority. We really need this and these are the reasons why. I mean, that's >> I guess one argument you can make there

100is we say new elementary school and that's it. >> And they're well, they're going to say, "Where do you want a new elementary school?" >> But yes, we did approve that back months and months ago. Um, so it should be something that can be viewed as a data point or as I guess as a request really. Um, but again I think we we got to be able to say we want a new elementary school in Maritown, Virginia on this land. We want triplettech on I mean we didn't have any of that on [snorts] and there was really no room for that. I don't think it was intended to have all that detail, but um it was definitely you could argue a baseline of a plan to try to move forward. So um yeah, >> option

101C listed priorities with the elementary school first, then the renovation of triplet second, and as you noted, >> it listed a timeline of proposed beginning. >> Yes. And the estimated cost I think was part of that document >> that the estimated cost or deferred maintenance. So the new ele school was estimated at a new build price. It excluded any land purchase. It was just construction cost at 41 million. Triplette had an estimated deferred major maintenance of $18.2 million. That does not speak to expansion. It does not speak to rebuild. I think when Mr. Lynn gave those presentations, we were looking at 60 million. >> Um Sandy Hook, and these are 2023 2024 numbers, had an estimated deferred maintenance of 33.7 million. Ashb Lee had an estimated deferred maintenance of 30.9 million and WW had an

102estimated deferred maintenance of 46.9 million. Now, these schools are different sizes than what was proposed for the new elementary school. It's feasible to say that that $41 million elementary school is comparable to Ashb Lee >> which has deferred maintenance of 30.9 million. >> So just to fix what we have >> just to fix what we have it is almost as much to build the new >> Yeah. And see that's where I think we have a bigger issue is just to fix what we have is hundred and something million dollars >> and that does not expand. that just catches up on deferred maintenance. >> I think I think if we go into it looking at the big picture, it's not our fault that our schools haven't been properly maintained. We just happen to be the elected

103officials on the board at this time. I think we need to start chipping away at those. We're not going to do all the renovations at the same time. It's not even practical while we're still providing a quality education. You cannot properly renovate any of those three schools while kids and staff are still in them. >> One of the things that I heard the two board members who were on the school infrastructure planning committee say is that they would like to increase our operating capital so that we knew that we were getting $5 million a year. Now, of course, the whole board of supervisors are going to need to agree to do that. And some of the things that we could do with that with that $5 million of operating capital each year is we could

104really plan for when the the roof replacements are going to happen and we could really plan for when the HVAC systems are going to be replaced. Whereas now, not knowing how much money we're going to get from year to year, it's always difficult to plan [clears throat] exactly. While we may have 50 things on our CIP, um if we knew we were going to get $5 million each year, we could plan what that $5 million was were going to go for. And then next year we could say, and then here's what's for fiscal year 27 and here's where fiscal 20 year year 28 comes in and here's 29. Now, some of those things in fiscal year 29 may um drop off or something become more important that's in fiscal year 30, but at least we

105would be able to plan for that $5 million if we knew that's what we were going to get for operating capital every single year, which that's not been um the current board of supervisors has done a nice job of funding our CIP, but not necessarily at the level that we have requested, but they've given us millions of dollars every year instead of nothing or hundreds of thousands. So >> that's what I mean about chipping away at >> those renovation numbers. Is that just the fix? What >> that's just a fix? >> So you mean tell me those schools it'll take 30 $40 million just to fix something that's about ready to break. >> That's what RMM told us. >> This is the same company also. Yeah, we've been down this road. >> Keep in mind

106what Dennis said earlier. So they said it cost $70 million and went to the next guy came out to be 40 million, >> right? >> I believe things need to be fixed. Don't get me wrong. I just >> I believe >> I question those numbers. If [snorts] we had the expansion of the new elementary schools and could strategically move kids within the the space we have, we could properly knock those three renovations out fairly quickly and in a lot less money than what what we were given by RM. >> You mean maintenance or like re >> renovation? So a full >> maintenance maintenance. Yeah. Not not addition but renovation, >> right? just renovation >> and not be disruptive on the kids, >> right? vacation >> because I think what's also is those numbers that you

107put up on the future housing. >> Mhm. >> That's something that probably can't ignore that the t you know the community has to understand that those I don't know how you going to ignore those numbers. It looks like you know I'm at the fairgrounds look like there's already some construction going on across the other side of the interstate. >> Oh every week side. >> I've seen construction at the Strawsburg area and also in the Woodstock area. I don't know that I've seen anything in Edinburgh, but I haven't paid as much attention. >> And not only the uh projections for the future, but the existence of the now, >> the the the information you shared about when lunches are served, when they can have art, when they can have music. U the shared space. It's it's

108not just the housing that's going to be developed here and there. It's the now. It's the now >> and the school is not going to be built >> for another >> It's not going to be built for years. >> Yes. It's gonna [clears throat] be a lot more built between now and then. >> Y'all y'all should just go to Sandy Hook during business hours. You really should. I've been there. >> But if you're going to go during the business hours, make sure you stay for when the students are discharged. Go out there and look at Holiday Street and the the traffic. >> I was going to stay, but I wanted to beat the traffic. and make sure you're in the traffic at quarter to 8 in the morning. Just make sure >> Sandy Hook or

109WW Robinson, either one. >> And there again, WW Robinson, just something to think about. If we were to put the new triple attack there, it would help them with two ways in, two ways out. >> Um, >> Sandy Hook is one way and one way. >> Yep. There's no There's no putting another bridge across that river. >> Are you the one that makes a presentation to the board of supervisors? What we need? >> I will. Mhm. >> You want a a 20 minute, a 40 minute or an hour presentation? What do you What do you need? >> Um, if we are clear on what we want, it could be a 10-minute presentation because I think they understand the need. >> Yeah. But, you know, I understand kind of jokingly, but in all honesty, if I'm

110on the board of supervisors, I want to know not just what I understand what you need, but tell me why you need it. [snorts] You know, I'd be more impressed when you show me why you need it. and you have, you know, >> well, that that's my dilemma at the moment because 20 minutes ago, we were talking about all the different moving pieces on this and how hard it's going to be to come up with something that would be a set of alternatives from which we're to select. Now, we tend to be like [snorts] one thing. This is what we want. Nothing else. I mean, of course, I know we're we're gonna want other things, but the only thing that we're we feel bidden to present is, you know, I want this big and July.

111That's what I want. I want that. I don't feel comfortable doing that. I I think that puts it >> I thought that's what they wanted from us. >> Well, that's my question. My question is what guidance do we have from the board of supervisors who now I know we gave them option C which was I think developed in April. >> When when did we develop that? >> It was it was presented throughout the fall last year and this board voted on it March 13th. >> Okay. So we're talking early in the winter we developed this. Okay. And so everybody every I know all six members of the school board has been discussing this with members of the board of supervisors and members of the community since then. And so our process should have been iterative.

112We should have been picking up tidbits along the way of what's going to work, what won't work, what's in, you know, dollars. You know, a lot of things that have been discussed tonight are things that we've heard and we've we've discussed with others. So, um, when they handed us back that, um, saying, "Hey, tell us what you want." Uh, I did not, and I'm not sure what we have in writing that said, you know, but my assumption, bad on me, I guess, wasn't that they wanted the one thing, but that they wanted a plan. They wanted a a pri a set of priorities that they wanted to see that we were taking seriously and in terms of a priorities maybe some idea of magnitude of the cost or the benefits of those that they would

113provide. I think that's what what you alluding to. So, I'd be very disappointed if what we came up with was the answer is A and that's it. And then they look at it and say, "That's it. You want an elementary school or you want a hot damn triplet? Is that's what you want? That's the one thing I I really thought, and I'm not trying to be cute here, I really thought that they were asking for us to come up with what we saw as a package of things we would like to accomplish in our building program over the next 20, 30 years. If I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong and we're just going to go ahead and vote on one thing. But I don't think that's what they were asking for. >> But I thought

114that's what we were talking about. Okay. >> So, so, so what what do we give them? That's what I'm wonder what our priorities are. Not our one thing, but what are our priorities? What do we see as a board, >> okay, >> as major capital improvements that we need to make over the next they didn't give a timeline, but I'm thinking what we need like tomorrow or yesterday is what they want to know. So option C was a new elementary school, a new triplet tech, and renovate those three elementary schools. That was option C, was it not? >> Yes, sir. Right. And >> I don't disagree that that is the concept that we had back then and we have been talking and developing that. Maybe we feel that that's still the same list. Maybe we

115don't. Maybe we if we're going to give it in priority order, I think that's what we're going to have to decide as a board. So if we decide a consent as as a board with a consensus that those items in that option C that we gave are still in play that narrows our game down to that and then deciding on kind of prioritization and maybe some sort of rationale for the selection. I think that's what they're looking for. So if we can do that, good on us. Can we? I don't know. I mean, I guess we could come up with a >> come up with option C. So, I I can't imagine we can't. >> Okay. >> So, but between now and then, there'll be very little time to do it other than just talking,

116sharing, and then coming back in here and then looking at uh at that straw man and deciding how how we want to um add any rationale to it or change the priority order. Well, I just want to add, I mean, we have been talking about this for over a year now, so this is not like we're doing it last minute or, you know, that we should feel rushed at all because I feel like this is all we've been talking about since I got elected. Um, we already have voted for that. That's why, yeah, it is a little bit odd that we had to vote on it again because we had already kind of chosen that. Um, what I don't want to see is us bringing to them an option that says the new elementary, the

117triplet, and then the renovation and then having the board supervisor saying, "Well, you didn't tell us exactly what the priority is." So, that's why I was saying before that me personally, I would like to, you know, make it known, well, my priority is if they're only going to fund one of those three things, the new elementary. If you think that it's important enough, then let's do the new elementary and the triplet. The other stuff is going to have to be done regardless. But I thought that that's what they wanted from us, that they wanted to have a consensus idea. It doesn't have to be, you know, that everybody agrees with it, but what the majority of the board wants instead of what is your priority is this project or that project. If we can fund

118them both, great. If we can only fund one, which one do you want? Do you want the elementary or do you want the triplet? So, and then if you're going to do the triplet, which one do you want? Do you want to renovate where triplet is right now or do you want the new building at central? So I thought that's what we were gonna be voting on right now. I mean in in November. So uh so that that's I don't see a problem with that. I think if they're saying if the board of supervisors is saying that they want more clarity and they want us to know exactly, you know, they want to know exactly what we're thinking, then I don't see any problem with putting specifics into that uh into what we're going to

119be passing over to them. I mean, what you just said was pretty much what I heard Carl Roston say at our very first meeting of this infrastructure board was, "We are not clear on what you guys want." Uh, okay. So, at that point, I had trouble biting my tongue because I'm like, "Dr. Shepard does a good job of working up our budget, our CIP, and presenting it to you guys for you to say you don't know." We had come up with option C and then you'll have to excuse me because I don't speak with the clarity you do but I was at the candidate forum here recently and Larry sat up there on stage and he said well they met one time but they have yet to schedule another meeting and I point >> yeah

120at that point >> I took that to heart because I'm on that board and I'm like man it is like we're kicking the can down the road so you can ask Dr. Shepherd this most recent meeting I told them at that point I said look we're having a work session [clears throat] this week I would like to know when can we schedule the next meeting because we've met with Davenport we've heard the financial end of it from you guys now we can take it back to our board I'd like to go back to them as soon as possible and say hey this is what we want >> and likewise I mean what would be really confusing ucing to everybody including myself would be if at the November meeting we just have an open-ended number of

121options. So personally I would like to see kind of what we have already you know just kind of revote on that option C again and then if we need to prioritize between those three points and and then send that over um I think that would be a good starting point so we don't have to start all over again. Um >> I think clarity could include um a new elementary school if that's what we're thinking of. A new elementary school at or near Maritown, >> you know, and it could be the [clears throat] Maritown Park, but we haven't explored that opportunity yet. Um and and then another point of clarity um renovation of triplette where it currently is or a new triplette in Woodstock. So I think that would give them the clarity that they would

122need in order to move forward. So basically, we just need to kind of reaffirm whether those are still our priorities and then kind of vote again as to well, do we really want the well, if we already voted on the new elementary, I guess we can vote on it again, but then the real vote is going to be on the triplet which are the two options we would want. >> I don't think so. >> Why not? >> I don't I don't think we can just take the list and just vote on that list up or down. I think you would just >> Why can't we do it again? >> Because we were just exploring the ideas back in the winter for all this to go and that's why we created the committee and to get

123information. So now we're at the decision-m process next month. So I'd like to see an action item that allows us a little bit more leverage >> like what? >> Well, then you just mentioned having three options. Well, that's what that's what the C the the option C is. That's what we're talking about. >> So, that's not what I just heard. So, so are you talking about I'm talking to Dr. Shepard. So, is does that mean that those that that there would be three options to be voted on or that there would be one list and it would be voted up or down? >> And that's not really that's not fair to ask you that question, right? >> I think it's up to the board to come to that. I'm again I'm I'm looking for some

124way we can move ahead with the with something that's going to work in parliamentary procedure where we get a a majority vote. >> Yeah. In my mind, if we were going to do um action because I don't know that all board members want a new elementary school. So, I think we're going to have to vote on them individually um with some more specificity. So, let's just say the new elementary school. That's that's an easy one. New elementary school at or near Maritown could be at the Maritown Park, you know, something like that. Um at the cost of approximately today's dollars 41 million, that would give us some some give the board of supervisors a better understanding of as exactly what we're looking for. Um but if we have to purchase property near Tommsbrook or Maritown,

125you know, that may add to the cost >> and and I I think that methodology answers what they want and provides us um the machinery by which we can do it. >> Yeah. And then, you know, the second vote would be on triplet tech. And, you know, while those two may um tie in priority, at least we know exactly where board members stand on each project. And then I would probably lump um be I would probably lump the three renovations in together um over a series of years just because um that would be the third. >> Okay. >> The third priority. Do we have a consensus among the schoolboard members that the superintendent develop that action item for our November 12th meeting? >> Okay. >> I the only thing that I don't I I I

126don't like that the priority thing. I I this is what we need and this is why. >> But that's we're going to vote on one by one. >> Well, but but I know the priority thing has been mentioned here quite a bit and I I I'm not >> okay. I'm not I don't want to I you know now if they come back and tell us well we need okay but upfront I agree with what Kyle said you want to know what we you want to know what we need well this is what we need and this is why >> and I think that's what you know I'm not big on the priority thing because I'm saying >> but I think >> it's too much but if it's too much of it huh >> but I

127think that's what they want from us >> I think they want no they want they they want what you what do you tell us what you need. >> But but if >> because if it the problem with my experience with priorities is >> one gets done and guess what? >> 15 years later two and three never got done. >> It's too easy. >> But they already have the >> but this this vote would not establish a priority. >> Okay. I just don't that's fine. I just don't like >> it would pick >> Yeah. >> the one that's in the lead and then the other stuff doesn't go away. But as you say it follows on. Well at that it's up to fate. I mean other things can happen. >> I I'm just expressing just my

128opinion now six of us just one >> I want to tell them this is what we need. >> Yeah. I'm just if you agree with the methodology going forward. >> Yeah. I'm not going to say well my priority is >> no. Okay. But you're willing to vote on >> those issues as they're brought forward. >> I'm I want to tell them this is what we need and this is why. >> Okay. >> But they already have Do they already have that Malie? I mean, do they already have what we need? And they just said, isn't that what they have? And then they just said that they wanted to know from us what the priorities are. I that's my understanding. Maybe I just misunderstood, but I thought they they had already that information and that it's

129our job to vote and say what we think needs to be a priority. So, one of the members from the board of supervisors at the school infrastructure planning committee said, "What's the project? Where is it going?" And then plans for implementation and not what is the project, what are the projects >> because it can be more than just one. >> But they already have. bless you. Um what our priorities are overall. I mean they have the needs that we have and we give them at that every year. I I thought the idea was that they wanted to know I thought that's what Dennis um Morris said at that meeting. He said well the problem is I have all this information but I need to know exactly what it is that you guys need and want.

130I mean it's not an easy decision. It's a really hard decision to make. But that's what we were elected to do. I mean that that's why we have to make that that that choice. I mean it's not an easy choice. Um but that's what we were elected to do. >> Okay. Well, we're looking forward to your developing that uh >> me too >> series [laughter] of uh projects for us to u take action on on uh our next regularly scheduled schoolboard meeting. 2.2. We're staying right with you. So, we're going to talk about the the the dress code right now [clears throat] >> at each of the places. And there are additional copies is our current dress code. And a school board member requested discussion of the dress code that is in the student code

131of conduct. Um, and the school board member wanted to um include considerations of adding a prohibition on students wearing tails and ears. Um, the current dress code authorizes school administrators to make adjustments for disruptions or unsafe attire with discretion given to each school's leadership team. Um items currently prohibited includes hats, hoods, full face coverings, um except for religious and medical reasons, sunglasses indoors, um sunglasses indoors, unsafe accessories, beach wear, and so on and so forth. So, um it's up for discussion tonight. So, Mr. Street requested this to be added. So, do you want to talk about what you're interested in? >> Sure. Um, I just think that, you know, kind of looking ahead and and before certain things may come into issue, I I just think that we we need to kind of set some

132foundations and, you know, I always come back to this is a school system and and the bottom line is this is a school division. The environment should be a school atmosphere. You're not at home. Um, you're not on vacation at the beach. And I just think it's that, you know, and I know some people may be unhappy, but and also it comes back to a form a form of distraction. Um, so I I just think that we need to kind of set some whether it's we need to kind of address that what's already in our dress code. Uh, but you know, um, I don't think we do we allow any animals. Do we allow any animals in our schools? We do have some dogs. [laughter] >> Well, I mean with I'm talking about in general,

133not a purpose. >> No, >> I'm I'm assuming that if the dogs are there for a purpose. >> Yes. Therapy or >> So, you know, if we don't allow animals in general, then you I want you know, I guess bottom line is what I'm saying is I think we need to have a policy that you shouldn't come dressed as an animal. Um but, you know, I just want to stick to this is a school system. Um, me personally, I think, you know, I I don't really care for students showing up in pajamas. You're not at home on the couch. Uh, I can understand maybe sweatpants, and I know that may get a little tricky. Okay, distinguish between pajamas and sweatpants. That's something that I'm sure the superintendent can figure out. She's a smart lady. Um

134but no, my take is bottom line is I'd like to see us I would like to see us set some guidelines and some foundations uh before it becomes an issue of [snorts] basically keeping in mind this is a school system and I'd like to see the atmosphere stay as a school system not home or vacation. >> Is this what we have in the current >> student code of conduct? Yes. So, are you proposing amending this? >> Do we have to amend it? Sure. [snorts] I mean, just I think >> I I'm with you because I mean I was going to say I don't see anywhere in here about ears and tails and I was at North Fork's graduation the end of last school year and there were kids running around with tails on and I'm

135like >> you know that's it's ridiculous. >> Yeah. I think it needs to be spelled out in here if we're going to amend this that there's no headwear with ears on them, no tails. If our boys can't wear a baseball hat in FFA, then there shouldn't be kids running around with tails and and ears on. >> I mean, tails and >> and I would probably to cover things as you know, any animal. >> Yeah, you have to because it'll come up with something else tomorrow. >> Today it's a today it may be a cat and five years from now may be a monkey. I don't know. So, uh, personally, I, um, now I'm in agreement with this. I, I, I personally, people who I've talked to know that I'm a big proponent of actually having

136school uniforms, and I wish all our schools would have actual uniforms. I mean, like, private schools have it and most of the world have them, and it would solve all the problems if we just had a school uniform. Plus, it would be a lot more economical for uh, parents. But I know that I'm in the minority and most people are not ready for that yet. But the one thing that I was reading here that I'm I'm a little bit concerned about um that I don't know if we can address it or not is they does say that the administrative team in each school will have the discretion regarding the code. Um I was hoping that once we do come up with the dress code that it would be applicable to all the schools and not

137have different um school systems allow have more discretion to do to allow things or not allow things than than others. Um, but that's that was just the only thing that I saw here that I would also like to change. >> I agree with that. It should be uniform. I mean, it should be across the board, not >> Dr. Shepard, I not to pick on our friends from Triplet, but wasn't that our building where students could still wear hats? Is that still a thing? >> Okay. And there was arguments for that. the one I remember um was for safety reasons and I don't know the answer on why it's a safety um but they could wear hats because of safety. >> Yeah. And I know just remember being in high school, you know, you'd have students

138that have behavioral issues or struggle with something and that would be a way of saying, "Hey, if you behave, you can walk around with your hat on." they were actually, you know, utilizing sometimes is that as like a, you know, >> a benefit, um, case by case, it wasn't, you know, a large number, but um, I know that happened at at that point. Um, so to me, it's not about the hats as much as the tails and all that craziness. I think, you know, that's it's where we're at in 2025. It's another distraction. Um, I think it's sad that we even have to bring this up, but it it's legitimate. I mean, it's happened here before. It's you all have seen it. I've seen it before. Um, but it's not a playground. It's a school.

139And, you know, I think you can express yourself in many ways nowadays. And, um, you can express yourself within our guidelines here while you're at school, in your outfit, while still um, following that. So yeah, I think we need to kind of get away from as many of those kind of crazy distractions as possible. [snorts] [clears throat] >> What do you say? >> Elv, do you have any comments? >> I could say a lot of things. [laughter] >> Do so. >> Take the litter boxes out of the restrooms. They have to run away. >> Oh, no. Don't say that. >> Well, we don't have litter boxes. We do not [laughter] >> Thank God. >> But whatever is disruptive or distracting can certainly be prohibited by the building level administrators. Um whether it's uh anything on

140this list that's prohibited or what's not on this list, if it's disruptive or distracting, assert yourself. Call mama. Get her off the assembly line. tell them to come get mom their son or daughter and properly dress them. So, I'm in sympathy with what you said. >> When you start getting specific like you said or somebody said next week it'll be a different animal. >> Yeah, I think if you do ears, tails, any animallike features that pretty well covers it. But I mean I'm of the mindset of Gloria. I went I went to private school half my life. I went to public school half my life. While I didn't like wearing uniforms in private school, it made getting dressed in the morning that much easier. You didn't have to pick out anything except was I going

141to wear a long sleeve button-down shirt or a polo. Um but it was all the same colors, same color pants. public school. I enjoyed the freedom of wearing jeans or shorts or whatever, but I'm not opposed to uniforms, but of course then you get the argument, well, our family can't afford going out and buying uniforms. I get it. >> It's actually cheaper to get the uniforms and you can have people like help out with that too, but that's different story. >> You all can lead the charge on, >> you know. >> Yeah. [laughter] No, I don't see us going down that road with public school. >> We're going to be talking about, you know, like animals and stuff. I mean, what if somebody decides to identify as a skunk and it's [laughter] going to bring

142something to Don't get too close to me. >> We need a broad overstatement something [laughter] to resemble an animal. Just act human. >> Does Mal look? And my other concern is, you know, just in common terms, I guess, and just be blunt, I just kind of also I think I really don't know how to say this, but >> I think some kids are probably showing a little bit too much skin. >> Kind of surprised that they would let a child leave the house dressed like that. So, but you're saying that we can enforce our policy to cover that >> supposed to in here. But I think what we have to do is that's why I think we need to take out that sentence and say that it's going to be countywide so that the principal

143doesn't have leeway. I I u first of all I I think Gloria is spot on that um that the administrative team uh in each school have shall have the responsibility to carry out would be would be a unified u policy and and then whatever the rest of that says uh it's something that is not u school specific. I do I could understand um we still have a our triplet folks here so I do understand let's say hats uh because a lot of the a lot of the guys and gals are working outside doing stuff and and and they're in you know the high you know there's just something about the guys working outside and and doing those projects that you know we obviously we want them to dress warmly and wear hats and so forth

144here but I think inside the you know classroom I think hats should for boating. But uh and if you can find we're giving the poor superintendent. She's she's going to become a master in lexicon with trying to find all these words that fit for finding a word for all the animals and so forth. But I I think that I think that that the u intent of the board is is unanimous here on this. It sounds like it. Uh and uh I'll I'll conclude my comments by saying that once upon a time I guess about a year a year and a half ago um Tom uh Street got some uh complaints from bus drivers and we had a a meeting of Southoun bus drivers and one of their if not their chief concern w was the

145I'll use my word would be the the lewd dressing of some of the students on the bus. And as I'm reading this, um, it says clothing that reveals undergarments. Well, there's maybe no undergarments to reveal. Uh, and, um, clothing is see-through revealing the midrift, which is a good attempt at that. And I'm not sure if lawyers helped draft this so that we wouldn't get in a bunch of trouble or whatever, but if we could, um, I want to go back to the common sense rule that Mr. Vance talked about. I mean, if something and by the way, these I don't think these bus drivers were prudes either. uh but they did feel it's causing distractions on the bus and um and and and and I would make the further argument that that degrades the learning

146environment not only on the buses but of course in the schools themselves. So if we if we could find a way to to um muscle up those two concepts about um clothing that and again I don't want to go to I mean if you say LWD the next question is what do you consider LWD you know and I realize that whoever wrote this was trying to come up with specificity that would allow say you can't do that because it does such and such. So, if there's any way that we could um tighten up that so that it it would discourage that kind of um LW LW display, I I I feel I'd feel good about adding that as well. >> Well, it also has clothing must reach the tip of the thumb >> when hands

147are placed at the sides, arms straight with palms flat, which I don't even know if that's I don't even know if that's >> like >> long enough. >> I think that's a little bit short. So maybe it should be inches above the knee like you know Catholic schools used to do. >> CS number number three. >> So um I'm hearing a consensus even though Kyle was strategically left the premises for the moment. No, he he obviously made his point well. Um that we uh include this as an action item as soon as possible. >> [clears throat] >> Madam superintendent, and then if you can um find the words that we've only gestured at here, that would be very helpful. And if you need further clarification from us, please don't fail to get in touch with

148us uh to, you know, try to find the right words or or restrictions as you see fit or let let us know. So >> feel feel free to get in touch with us so we can have an option. >> Go ahead. >> Question about triple tag. I guess you could ask the triplet division back there. What >> safety? I didn't want to put them on the spot. >> What's the the safety of the hat? >> So the kids can wear hats in classrooms that it applies to safety. For example, if I'm under a car and I'm trying to shield things from coming into my face in addition to safety glasses, the bill of a hat helps. Carpentry, um, you know, electricity, all of those debris is something that happens frequently, they are not allowed to

149wear them backwards um because that does defeat the safety purposes. And for the most part, if it is a class where that safety isn't an issue, then the students do not like >> cyber security, >> networking or cyber security, you know, not necessarily that um for safety. helpful. Thank you. >> Yeah, >> I guess we could ask Mr. Unopposed back here what he'd want to hear from the board of supervisors. >> You got to wear a hat. [laughter] >> All right. Uh we're going to move on to issue 2.3, which is um dealing with school colors on sports uniforms. Chad, >> we had a school board member ask um if we could discuss the consistency of uniforms at schools being the primary colors of the school. So I worked with the athletic directors and in

150your folder I have for each um school uh Stonewall Jackson, North Fork Middle Schools are below and central Peter Millenberg and also Strawsburg and Sigma Knob. I have put together the varsity teams, their home uh jersey color, their away jersey color, and an alternate jersey color. Speaking with the athletic directors, they talked about the colors that are used outside of their primary colors um such as purple and white at um Strawsburg. They may wear a black. It could be for a special game that they have or it could be in a case where they played a soccer match and they have two dark colors backto-back uh nights that they may wear an alternate color of a dark color like black instead. Um at Stonewall they use the colors red, white, black and gray. Um at

151Central they use blue, gold, white, black and a pink and that's usually for cancer um supporting cancer mites. And at Strawsburg they use purple, white, black and gray. Um I know there was some discussion earlier about um the primary colors. Uh in certain sports such as basketball, you would not be able to wear like Central would not be able to wear a primary color like blue and gold because you have to wear white for home. Um for basketball, same way of soccer, you'd have to wear white um for home. So some sports kind of dictate the color that you wear too in that. So Mr. Street asked to bring this uh forward. So at this point, I guess we're open to discussion if there's anything further I can add to it. I tried to collect

152as much information as I could possibly get from each school. So, you can see by team um [snorts] what they're wearing. >> Tom, did you want to discuss your your concerns? >> Sure. I just, you know, I I just feel this this has been something that's been in the back of my mind for many years, not just before way before I even thought about coming on school board. I just have a concern. I just kind of wondering where will it end when I see a lot of different colors and I have a feeling this trends from the the pros. I don't know if anybody saw the game last night, but I didn't even What in the world was Pittsburgh wearing? I maybe that's a uniform they had back in the 40s. I don't know. Did

153they Mr. Barlo? >> [laughter] >> I'll ask my father. >> But you know and I'm not here to be the bad guy and pick on and I know but but from what but from kind of doing my you know talking to people and this and that this there are concerns here and I guess I always come back to why wouldn't you be proud to wear your colors? I know when I was handed that I was handed two jerseys, a red one and a white one, and I was proud of my school colors. Don't hand me a gray one. Don't hand me a black one. It I don't I I want to wear my school color. So, it always comes back to why wouldn't you be proud to wear your school clothes. Now, if the color

154has a purpose, I get it. So, I won't touch the pink. That has a purpose and it has a really good purpose. So, I I understand that. I get it. We all know it. Everybody wants to wear black because it's the bad boy color. You think we're the Oakland Raiders. Well, you know, my answer to that is if you want to be a bad athlete, it starts in the weight room. I don't have to wear black to, you know, be a better athlete. But that's where it comes from. That's the bottom line. Um, so my concern is has uniforms has uniforms become a fashion statement instead of representing your school. So that's kind of my first concern. Why wouldn't you be proud to wear your school colors? Then I move on to, and this is

155where when I talk to people, this is the probably the one that they they do com they do comment on is the cost. Somebody's paying for them. So if it's a school providing them, that's a taxpayer. And I understand there's fundraisers, but I also understand, and I'm sure it's the same on every campus. It can't be different. When you go fundraisers, it's the same pocketbook that I'm just using I'm not just using examples. That's it. So, don't quote me. You know, whether it's the football team, whether it's a soccer team, whether it's a well, then it's the FFA, then it's a drama club. Well, it's the same pocketbook that they go around to the businesses. I can tell you from experience that they ask for money. Not a problem. the communities whether it's Strawburg whether

156it's Woodstock whether it's the SA you know Mount Jackson new mark they support their local schools and they support their needs but then I kind of question you know wants you know supporting once I just I don't know that that's a concern I have then you move on to the booster club well there's the booster club well yeah there's the booster club but here again am I in there working cooking French fries to support needs or am I in there working to support wants? So, and what I realize is or well not don't realize just my gut my gut tells me that probably for every one person that likes the cool colors, the different colors. Um there's probably three or four that's like, you know, that costs a lot of money. Somebody's paying for it.

157And why, you know, and then also, you know, what why aren't you proud of your school colors? I get the VHSL rules. I understand that. Not a problem. I understand there's a color with a purpose. If there's a purpose, I understand that. But I always come back to where does it stop? You know, where does it my concern is where does it end? And and yet I have I have nobody has yet to give me a good answer why they don't want to wear their school colors. So I just that's just my opinion. Mike, >> I would love to speak on this topic, but Strawsburg, we bleed purple. So, I mean, we have purple, gray, and white, and then on occasion, there are black jerseys with purple writing. Um, but I've never heard any complaints

158from the northern end. Um, we I I guess we don't expand or get too crazy on uniforms. I mean, it's always purple, white, gray, and occasionally black with purple lettering. I haven't we have I haven't heard of any complaints on our end. Um, >> I spoke with Mr. Heiserman. I concur. It's twice used that term. Um, with what he said. Um, and I'm sure you have spoken to Mr. Cvage. And was he receiving complaints on say the black uniforms? I'll be honest with you. I don't know if anybody's complaining. I'm just kind of I guess I'm being proactive and kind, you know, well, my concerns are being proactive. You know, it mean I admit I don't know where to I know. Um don't know how to say this. Um, you know, I have to admit,

159even on the south end, I guess I can say it this way. I don't know why we've gotten so far away from red and white. Me personally, I think our uniforms look the best in the 80s. Really, not when we added that touch of black as a trim. I I think that's when it did look sharp. But now, when I show up to ball games, I I don't know what I'm going to see. I I honestly always thought Stonewall's colors were black, red, and white. [snorts and clears throat] I see gray on or I thought I saw gray on one of the sheets Chad handed us for you guys. >> Gray has been used as a uniform back to early baseball time, softball time coming through. That's been a common just like a white jersey

160has been a common color that's been used. So all the schools have it. Um, usually like the black comes in, they may have an accent of black in it. Like they may have um I know like speaking of Stonewall, they have red, white, and they're outlined in black. Um, >> yeah. I mean, I always associated those three colors with Stonewall. Central it was always blue, gold, and they wear some gray jerseys for football. >> And they're awful. [snorts] >> But I saw absolutely awful. Was there not a social media post just this [cough and clears throat] past weekend? >> They were wearing them this week. Yeah, they're >> they're gray and u >> blue letter >> blue and you can't read the numbers or anything. >> So, there were some issues social media people complaining

161about them wearing their gray uniforms for football for homecoming. >> So, >> I don't know there again, we don't have any complaints. So, >> I just I So, I I have a question. I I really don't see a problem with this, but um >> so the uniforms that they have right now, would they not be able to use them or >> No. No. >> How? >> Yeah. I'm not saying you need to change I'm not saying you need to spend more money and change uniform. I'm saying from here on my concern is here on out. >> Yeah. Grandfathering in. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I'm not Yeah. Don't I apologize. That's a good question. I'm not saying they need to >> change their whole I'm just from here my concern would be from here

162on out. You know what you have is fine because I'm not into spending more money. >> You have any comments? [snorts] >> Um, no. >> Okay. The, um, I have two concerns with what you raised. I mean, maybe think about this for a bit. One is, um, has to do with the costs. Um because um somebody could say, you know, um if those uniforms are going to cost x number of dollars more each year and is that going to rate I don't know if anybody's made that argument yet. Uh I'm not sure that that's even in play. In other words, I don't know enough about it know if the red, white, and black jerseys cost more than the red and white jerseys. They likely do. >> I think about a white gets dirty easier. So

163football, you probably don't want to have >> Yeah. >> Bunch of white uniforms. Baseball, white pants. A lot of teams just wear gray pants now because you don't have to clean. It's not as hard to clean them. But then black is viewed as a pretty sharp color when it comes to >> Well, I I think black is often used as a trim be for for color contrast and I think it works well with the stonewall. Uh, and I understand what Chad was saying earlier in baseball, you know, you had the traveling grays, you had the home whites, and with other other sports, you have the same, you have the same thing. So, grays and whites pop up all the time, you know, and none of those indicate, I think, any kind of extra expense or

164whatever. But, uh, I do remember when I was coaching and tried to get my kids wanted the kids on the team wanted a sharper uniform. We were JV, didn't have very good uniforms. We went out to raise money. We heard about it from the community. We need some money for our uniforms. Oh, really? Call the superintendent. Why are your kids out raising money? So, if it's not causing [laughter] if it's not causing a problem, I'm kind of okay with it. But um but [clears throat] but um there um there might be you I think you raised because I mean I I watch some of the teams the college. I mean, you got epolettes, you got gold, you got tree, you got kind of all kind of stuff going on and that could be part of

165what we built into this thing and like, you know, the bad boy team and all that other stuff. Uh, so it'd be nice if we could kind of, you know, keep keep a a lid on this thing. Um, you know, keep it from getting out of hand. Uh, but I'm I mean, I don't see a I don't see a big problem. there's a a genuine concern over budget or the escalating and maybe there is an escalating inflation of uniform inflation. I don't anyway I can just see you know this year we want to wear a never mind extra stuff on uniform just gets crazy. So um I'll leave this in and you do you do you feel strongly enough that we take this on action as as an agenda item? Is this something you wanted

166us to further cogitate about? What would you like to do with this issue? Well, I mean, obviously if if if the major if the board isn't concerned about, you know, somehow kind of like you said, I don't know, kind of a lid on it or kind of keeping the reigns so we don't get too crazy that, you know, it's it's up to the board, the majority whether we kind of want to keep things within limits of your school colors or anything goes. You know, I understand. I mean, you know, I don't probably I probably think everybody don't want to be like Penn State. It's either it's blue and white and that's it, nothing else. But, uh, I understand that, you know, uniform, they want their uniforms to look sharp. I get it. >> You know,

167going back to the black uniforms, sometimes they're used as a motivation tool. you go out, listen, we beat this team Friday night and you practice hard the following week. We'll let you wear those black uniforms. And hopefully you're playing the weak sisters of the poor because they're a distraction. And then the other thing about the cost, um, where do the gate receipts come in towards the uniforms? Do you have some idea what percent the gate receipts contribute to the uniforms? Yeah, probably about none. >> Got to go to pay the referees. >> If you get done paying the referees and all the other athletic costs if I mean everybody it's no big secret football kind of and basketball it kind of >> well they're they're the >> carries all the >> the athletics but >>

168it depends on the school how much your gate receipts are going to support your uniforms to the point of certain sports have better gate receipts than others. Um, more often than not, SAF does buy the uniforms and those are the school raised funds, whether it's gate receipts, fundraisers, that sort of thing. >> Yeah, I know last year at Strawsburg the players did a fundraiser to buy black jerseys and they got to keep those jerseys at the end of the season. Um but there again it was only if they completed the fundraiser in order to buy the jerseys. >> So the students wanted >> the students wanted it or >> the players did >> but to go back to what you're saying Larry incentive I I you know maybe I was different but I didn't I

169didn't I I didn't want to wear a black uniform. I wouldn't wear my school colors. our end of the county. I mean, it's purple, white, and gray. And even if it's black, it's got purple in there. And that Northwestern purple was 78 black and 1/8 purple. >> But but along with this, what my thinking was if the board was interested and it's just something for us to talk about now. And and and by the way, I really I know this may sound kind of dumb, but I really like how we've been just talking tonight. I mean, it's been nice, you know. Um, kind of feel like we're in Larry's living room. I don't know. Um, [laughter] but, you know, that's why along with this was [snorts] uh a percentage, you know, I'm just roughly thinking,

170throwing this out there that if we wanted to kind of keep the reinss on it or kind of keep limits, you know, 75% of your uniform need to be or 80% need to be your school colors. that allows, you know, I'm not saying it has to be 100%, but it does allow if I don't know if you kind of and maybe that doesn't make sense. I don't know, but I was thinking maybe 80% of your uniform has to be your school colors. Like I looked it up on record, Strawburg is purple and white and Central's royal blue and old gold. I've never heard of old gold. And somewhere along the line, Snow Stonewall did sneak in there black. It is red, white, and black. Um, but if >> I get your idea of the percentages,

171but I can also see, and I know from coaching um, travel teams, when you start getting into those percentages, you can contact companies that do jerseys that go, "Oh man, we could do a tiger stripe." and make sure we meet those parameters. Or we could do a leopard print or we could do a camouflage and make sure we meet those parameters there. Again, if you just set a percentage, who gets the final say in ordering these uniforms? Is it the athletic director? Is it the coaches or the school? >> You're you're leaving a whole lot open. >> Can they tail to the end of it? >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Start putting ideas. >> Start putting ears on the helmets. [laughter] Uh, what I was going to ask is [cough] does the school board have the

172authority to to enact a resolution where it's it's not policy like 75 or 80% but a resolution kind of as in support of school colors. Do they have the power to issue resolutions >> that? Yes, they do. >> Well, maybe we could attack that with a resolution, Mr. street rather than get into the weeds of >> which would >> percentages and tails and stripes and leopard spots. >> Would that would that meet your concerns, do you think? >> Yeah, I guess I it's just whatever the board you know I'm I'm just my Yeah, I have my concerns but but my >> Well, you have the concerns. I think um if if the board is asking you to to come up with a concept for resolution, I think the ball would be in your court to

173work with the staff and come up with something. I don't think we should drop this one on the staff. I think this is kind of thing that you know, you ought to put your ideas into words and then help us come up with a resolution. We can it doesn't have to be finished product, but I mean we can use that as a as a straw man for a resolution if you want to do that. I mean, I think that's all >> perfectly colors reflect something about the culture of the community and [clears throat] it's hard to describe if on Strawburg there's a time of the year when the mountains have a purple Jimmyi Hendris haze to it, you know, and that became their color. Now, in the 70s when the King Tuck display was in

174uh Washington, it was purple, gold, and white. Well, that fade the gold faded out pretty quick, but that had something to do with Thomas Brookke. Thomas Brook's color was gold, and they were integrating that into the to the uniform, but it's not around anymore. So, I'm sure the the red and white has some cultural meaning in the south end. I don't know cuz you gave me a homework assignment, Larry. >> Sir, >> I guess you gave me a homework assignment. >> I guess I did. Um, but I just want to make sure, you know, it's not really what Tom I just, you know, I want to be what the board thinks, you know, not really what Tom >> Well, I I think it's a it's a valid subject you bring up. I think if you

175if you do want to put some emphasis on it, I'm I'm hearing the board say that if you want to put an emphasis on that and ask for resolution to be passed, I think I think that be perfectly in order. I'm not sure that it calls for or that a policy or it would be hard to articulate in the past, but it's up to you as to how you like to proceed with that. >> Fair enough. >> And while you're doing your homework, >> gold and blue, >> old gold. Now, >> I have to admit, Mike, went back to you all bleed purple. girl's kids got me one day many years ago. We were actually at the fair and I kind of a strawber stonewall thing and I said, "Well, we bleed red and I

176can prove it." Then that Strawsburg student said, "Well, we bleed purple and it's purple before it co it gets exposed to air." [laughter] >> I thought it was blue though. [laughter] >> And on that note, we're moving to 2.4. the uh fisc year 27 budget development calendar and we are going to be asked to approve this at the November schoolboard meeting. Dr. Shepard, is there anything we should particularly know about this? >> So, attached um are the two calendars. One is for the budget development and the second one is for the schoolboard meetings for um calendar year 2026. So, um, please look at those and, uh, see if they, um, fit with your schedules. >> Dennis and I are good with it. [laughter] >> Hard to believe we're already looking at this. >> This year's

177flown. >> Okay. So, um, seriously, um, so these documents have been put here for our perusal >> between now and next meeting. please become aware of them and then uh we'll take uh we'll take a vote on those also at the November 12th schoolboard meeting. That's the last of our work session topics. Um we are going to convene in close session just a bit, but before that um we have u schoolboard member comments. If anybody would like to make schoolboard member comments tonight, have at it. >> 654. I really don't have a whole lot. Um, our competition cheer team, I believe they just won districts recently, so congratulations to them. Um, thank you to all of our staff in the building, school board office staff. We appreciate you. Um, that's all I got. >> Thank

178you. Well, as we look at the budget for 2627, I was wondering, and I we'll save this for next time. Um, and there have been references made it here this evening. Um, indirectly, what if you approached the board of supervisors for capital improvement funds to be set aside, let's just say February the 1st, and then we wrap up the rest of the budget and and go forward. Why that is because it gives you time to plan. You know you've got your money like you said the what was it five million maybe every year it would be set aside or something like that. So you know you have the money in February and that's just a random date. It doesn't have to be February 1st. You have the rest of the year to plan wrap up

179your budget. You have time to u do your paperwork. get your bids, issue your contracts, and so forth. Because, you know, schools close the end of May, they open early August. You have 60 calendar days to do some projects. And if you wait till April, May, a lot of your contractors are already obligated. You're hesitant as you approach that deadline whether you're going to get 5 million, four million, three million. So give us some thought to that and we'll kick that uh around maybe next time. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else pass? >> Huh? >> I'll pass right now. We'll save November. >> I'm good. >> Okay. I'm good, too. >> All right. We uh have a scheduled um close session coming up. Um we don't need a recommendation from you for this, do we?

180Or do we? We do. Darn. Okay. Go ahead, Dr. Shepard. >> It's a short recommendation. I recommend the school board of Shannidoa County convene a closed meeting under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act to have a briefing by staff members or consultants pertaining to actual or probable litigation where such consultation or briefing and open meeting would adversely affect the negotiating or litigating posture of Shannidoa County Public Schools under Virginia Code 2.2-3711A7. >> Thank you, Dr. Shepard. Do I have a recommendation for or a motion? >> I move that the Shannido County School Board convene a closed meeting under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act in order to have a briefing by staff members or consultants pertaining to actual or probable litigation where such consultation or briefing and open meeting would adversely affect the negotiating or

181litigating posture of Shannidoa County Public Schools under Virginia code 2.2-3711A7. >> Thank you, Mr. Mr. Gacha for that motion. A second. >> Second by Mr. Rickard. All those in favor, please indicate by saying I. >> I. I. >> Any opposed? None. We will reconvene in close session. Okay. Well, it's uh I was going to wait a couple seconds till 10 o'clock, but it's 9:59, so we're going to reconvene in open session. Um [snorts] and so >> I move to reconvene in open session. >> Well, thank you. >> Second, third, >> two seconds. Any opposed? Okay. Um, so we will, um, I'll have to read the closed meeting certification. Um, [clears throat] the Shanno County School Board hereby certifies by roll call vote that the best of each member's knowledge, only public business matters lawfully exempted

182from open meeting requirements by Virginia law were discussed in the closed meeting to which the certification resolution applies and only such public business matters as were identified in the motion convening the closed meeting were heard, discussed or considered by the Shando County School Board. Each member responds as have certified and called. Cheryl, >> Mr. Mr. >> I so certify. >> Miss Carlin, >> I so certify. >> Mr. Gutaw, >> I so certify. >> Mr. Vance, >> I so certify. >> Mr. Ricker, >> I so certify. >> Mr. Bara, >> I so certify. Um, do I have a motion to adjourn the meeting? >> I move to adjourn. >> Second, third. All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? >> We are journed at 10 p.m. >> So that took us one minute. >> Think we've

183done tonight. Thank you, God. >> Gloria had the second