PGUSD Special Board Meeting March 26, 2026

001Okay. Ready? All right. I'm going to call this meeting of the Pacific Grove Unified School District Board of Education to order. It is a special meeting for March 26. Um, and we have our land acknowledgement first. Good evening. As we begin this meeting, it's important to pay respect to and acknowledge that we are on the traditional land of the Aloney, the Costtoan, and Eselin people, and additionally pay respect to elders both past and present. All right, may we have roll call? >> Well, acting president Shamas >> here. >> Uh Dr. Hazen >> here, >> trustee Otmar >> here, and Trusty Wax >> here. Just to make note, uh, President uh President um McNeri is not is not able to be here tonight. She is feeling ill. >> Okay. Um, we're going to go on to

002the adoption of the agenda. Um, do we have any public comment or any changes? >> The only change to the agenda, we do have one expedited item. You'll find it under a W in your binders. Um it's one outofcount um activity that is happening on April 7th. We wanted to bring it forward tonight so we didn't have to bring it as a ratification uh at the April 9th meeting. And then there was one correction made to uh the um the the other out of county that was already on the um on the agenda, but other than that, no changes to the actual agenda itself. >> Go ahead. We we received the um correction. Did we also receive the >> No, not it's there in under um tab W. Trusty Artmar, if you want to take

003a look at it before we and we can take some time for all of you to read it through. But this is it's an avid field trip that's taking place on April 7th. Um and it just, you know, yeah, they, you know, really weren't able to get it through in time to make it on our last meeting. And so we wanted to bring it forward tonight for the board's approval. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Um, is it is it uh labeled on the consent or not yet? >> It's under outofcount activities. So, correct. So, we don't have to add anything actually. >> Got it. Okay. Thank you. >> All right. So, is there any public comment on that? Okay. Seeing none, none in the audience here. Um, may I have a motion to adopt the agenda?

004>> I move to adopt the agenda as presented. >> I'll second. >> Okay. Motion by Mike Wax. Uh, seconded by Elliot Hazen. All in favor? >> I I >> Okay. Motion passes. 4 Z. um close session tonight. We are going to go into close session and we will be discussing negotiations uh collective bargaining session planning and preparation with PGTA for the 2526 school year. Um negotiations also with collective bargaining session with CSEA for 2526. We will also be discussing public employee discipline, dismissal, release, leave, complaint, government code 54957, subdivision B. And we will be also discussing a superintendent goals midyear check-in. And that is it. Any public comment on close session items? Okay, seeing none, we will adjourn to close session. We're back in open session at um 7:02. Um apologize for a little bit

005late, but we had important discussions going on and reporting action taken in close session. Um the first three were fake because we did not discuss them and the last one we did discuss was D superintendent goals the midyear check-in. So it was very good discussion. Um no action taken on that. That was just a information. All right let's have a pledge of allegiance. All right, Mike, you're on. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay. So, um, President McNer's not here tonight, so that's why I'm taking over. Um, all right. So, we are on to consent then. And do we have any public comment on consent? >> Okay. Um, and we have added to consent.

006Um, and it's all it's all good. Any public comment here on consent? All right. Then I need a motion to approve. >> Um, I actually had >> Yes. >> I wanted to to pull. >> All righty. Which one? >> And it was the um >> out of county. the out of county and if I had everything up I would tell you but it's a Disneyland trip. I just had a question. >> Okay. >> About got to get my act together. Uh the question was I don't know if there's anyone here that could speak to it. So you can Okay. I think I'm ready to let you >> I just had a question about So, um it says for this Disneyland trip that um Sean Keller's driving in his he's driving six students. >> Yes. >>

007I'm guessing that's a district van. >> It's actually his personal car. The only reason it's added there is that we had we have some students on a wait list and we wanted to be sure that if they do end up going rather than hiring and paying for a whole another charter bus he had volunteered and offered to you know have his car and drive them down. >> Okay. And then the the other question I had is I was looking at the times and um the time was a 1:00 a.m. pickup and then a 12 a.m. pickup from the place of >> I don't have it in front of me, but I was guessing the 12 a.m. pickup is at Disney. And so with the drive back, that would make a 30hour trip. And I was

008a little concerned about having a single person driver if the only stopping point was a there's a rest stop in Lost Hills. So are those times correct? >> They are. It is just how the field trip has has been right. They've kind of it's a a one-day turnaround. Um from what I do understand is the drivers do have I mean they're not part of the field trip itself. So they get to you know obviously race you know while all the kiddos are at Disneyland. Um, and so that's, you know, kind of the >> as long as as long as this single personal driver is having time to sleep. I'm just imagining Sean Keller after a 30-hour day. I don't know, >> but I just want to make sure it's safe and I'm sure it would

009be, but just for clarity sake for the community, >> that that's how it's all unfolding. Okay. Thank you. That's all I have. >> Okay. Um, >> I can make a motion to approve the consent then with that item if it's still okay. >> Yep. and I will second. >> All right. Motion to approve the consent by Elliott and second by Laura. All in favor? >> I. >> Motion approved. 40. Okay. Now we are moving on to this is special meeting. So we are having our information discussion which is our board governance training and self- evaluation session. Um, do I have any public comment on that? None. Okay. Then we are we moving to We're moving our chairs. So Lou, you're going to lead us through this. >> Okay. >> Excellent. >> But it's going to

010end up where you want it to appear. >> Okay. >> All right. filter the evaluations >> and and uh there we go. And uh created check marks on where people fell. It's totally an anonymous. And what I thought we would do and I and I do did notice that I think you're particularly hard on yourself. Um but I thought we'd go through each of them. uh some there's not unanimity on what the scores should be on each question. Uh and I thought we would talk about each one and if there are areas that you want to emphasize, you can. If there are any ideas on how you can improve your your performance in that particular area, then I wish you would state what your ideas might be. And uh hopefully what we'll end up with

011is an idea of perhaps two to five goals that each person can commit to at the end of how you'd like to make yourselves a better board, a better higher functioning board. Okay. So with that and our time, we're scheduled to go until 10 o'clock finish. And we don't have to use all that time if we're efficient. um but we have it available if if we need it. So let let's go ahead and take a look on the first question. Was each board member acts in the best interest of the entire district rather than uh one segment of the district or special interest group? There are two indications that u you're below average on it or less than what you would like it to be. Um, is there anybody who wants to speak to that

012particular area or expand on their mark or question what the thought might be where you fail to recognize that you are performing at an acceptable level. >> I'll say just made a quick comment. I I I don't even remember my scores anymore what I did. So I may have been one of the twos, I may not have. But if it was again from a selfreflection standpoint, I think it can be difficult as being a board member and a parent or a grandparent to always be se you know to be separating those roles at times. So I could see that being a situation where I would say sometimes I do not always do the best acting in the entire district. I try but doesn't mean I always do. >> Okay. in in terms of interest >>

013acting acting in the best interest >> best interest of the district rather than one segment of the district >> like am I am I trying to put too much attention if my son is on the soccer team at the middle school and I'm trying to I don't think I am but I just >> he just did just >> strike one yeah but just I mean just in general I think sometimes it's it's hard you know how much do we look and I think it's just a realist istic aspect is how much when we're making decisions are we looking through the lens of a board member or are we looking through the lens of a parent right I think I would argue it's like 2020 vision probably one eye is really focused on one one eye

014is focused on the other and we're trying to bring them as close together as possible but that would be my it's hard to it's hard to make a decision that is entirely absent my own family self-interest if that makes sense Well, I felt that um I think I gave the five because I really felt that I never heard anything from anybody that made me think, "Oh, well that well, he or she is only speaking for a certain group or I I don't I really didn't think I ever heard that." So, >> all right. Well, I I think Elliot has had a confession which is absolutely legitimate. Thank you for the honesty. I think it's hard to sometimes separate yourself from the district as a whole. Uh if my uh son or daughter is going to

015Robert down, do I ever think about should I give Robert down a little bit more? Or if my son or daughter is playing soccer, should we be a little bit more supportive of the soccer team than we are of the baseball team? Yeah. be if the self-awareness is important and I think if you have that self-awareness you can guard against having an imbalance in what your dedication and your knowledge and your support is. No. >> Yeah. I mean, again, I know you have to wake up at 4:30 and everything, but like I feel um having that recognition and knowing that I'm a parent with kids at Forest Grove and maybe being aware of I mean, I only most of what I know about the district, even as a board member, is still anecdotal to my

016experience as a parent of those kids, but I still don't feel like we act out of self-interest when we vote on things, you know, or I haven't I haven't felt that. I mean, that's just partially me. Like, I don't think we've I guess our our parental mix has kind of varied anyways, but like it doesn't seem like schools have been unevenly favored this way or that. So, >> no, I agree with that. I was thinking more like I'll give an example. Again, I'm bringing this up as hypothetical a bit, but I'm going to target it at you since you're talking. But like, for example, like the tech policy, right? I know that was one that you voted no on, you know, when we're talking about the refresh. Like how much was that for your desire

017not to want your kids to have tech in the classroom versus is that really what's best for the entire district? And I'm not saying that it's either or. What I'm saying is it's a probably a blend of those two, I would say. And that's that's kind of my admission is that when I make some, you know, I'm trying to think if there was a similar one. probably mine would be the opposite. Like I love my technology. So I know that like >> I love mine too, >> right? So I I probably would vote a little more knowing that knowing that I have found such a use and technology is such an important part of my life that I want us to have the best tech in the district, right? Because of my biases in that

018way. That's so I think it's more of a of a unconscious bias than anything I'm doing intentionally that I would just start saying we probably all have to different degrees. You know, I mean, would you care, Laura, about allergies if that wasn't something as much that your kids were dealing with? Right. >> Well, it's interesting because I what I was going to say is I feel like I as a parent, if I was not a parent and I was on this board, I would I would I don't know that I would vote very differently. I don't I don't know. But as a parent, I'm kind of like I want to be a mom to everybody. I want to protect everybody and so I will like pull consent items to make sure everyone's gotten enough sleep

019because if that was my kid, you know, so it's like that kind of thing where I'm almost overly cautious. So that could be >> I don't know if that's a special interest group, but over concerned moms, I'm representing them. But but you know, I mean, so I can't remember how I voted either, but um but yeah, even but it's even as far as allergies, it's like the push was let's make sure everybody is safe because I now recognize that there are kids throughout this district that maybe are under reppresented that have allergies. So now there's and staff members. So now there's epinephrine at every site and everyone's trained on it. So, you know, it's sort of sometimes it works out for the greater good. But, um, it's interesting because when you get these questions too,

020I'd like to kind of preface this whole thing, but it's like any survey that you take. >> Sometimes surveys are mood dependent, right? Like it it matters what meeting you've just come out of. It matters where you are in your life. It matters what interactions you've had over the past month or so. >> We're in the last hour. Yeah. saying or yeah and so there could be time like you know if we took the survey three different times you might get three completely different answers out of me because I'm a human being that have I have fluctuating emotions and >> um so I would like to say before we start this too that I think we should all take this with a little bit of a grain of salt because none of these are >>

021permanent yeah I mean, it's so it's going to fluctuate. >> That really excellent point. And and so maybe we spend a go a little quicker then. >> I think Yeah. Yeah. >> All that is to say, >> yeah, I think that's it's a really good point. Yeah, there was some indication that maybe community values are not adequately reflected at the board meeting. Is that a serious issue? >> I think so. >> Do you Okay. I I would say yes. I feel like um I feel like community members make a a big effort, especially you those that have kids and are working or or just in general to take the effort to reach out to be engaged with what's happening in this district. Um, I think there's a fine line between responding to every communication. It's

022nice to do, but it's also getting a response or receiving a response versus having your voice heard. They're two completely different things. And I think that in this community and in this district um people receive responses to their emails um but not necessarily they're not necessarily heard and I think we saw that in the budget subcommittee um in in that meeting that followed that um and with the layoffs and that kind of thing. I think a lot of input came in from the community, but the decision had already been made. And so I think then that that reverberates back out to the community and it gives the impression that yeah, we'll listen, but we won't hear. And so um or we'll hear but we won't listen, whatever. >> Um but we're not absorbing the information

023that you're giving us. for simply it's so so in that um that's one example but I've seen it in my four years on the board that um the community speaks and sometimes they're heard and sometimes they're not and I think that that can be frustrating especially to um well taxpayers but um parents in the district or grandparents in the district or people that have kids that they care about in this district and um so we could do a better job at that. I'll add a slight addendum only that I worry similarly but differently that it's to me it's the we the squeaky wheel gets a grease concern is that I sometimes worry that we're hearing the people that are speaking but we're not actually hearing some of the those that don't maybe feel safe to

024speak whether it's you know maybe their staff members that don't feel like it's a they have a a good rule to be able to speak on some of the stuff or whoever whomever and so that's I I that was I think if I was the two which I don't know if I was but or or even the for is I think that would be my and it's the problem is it puts it on on us. I don't know how much that is the Brown Act and the way we meet versus us as a board and that that's a difficulty difficult one in this separate >> any other comments on that particular >> I just would like to say I also agree that I the situation of the squeaky wheel is a difficult one >> because

025that's you know but when there's a overwhelming number of community members coming forward about something um if they're not heard, then the chances of them coming forward again are going to be less and then less and then less. So, I just um and you're right. I mean, realistically, we've we vote on what comes in front of us in a packet, you know, and we can add stuff to the agenda, but at the same time, it's a lot of things that are presented to us are out of our hands. They they come to us and we make a decision. and we're not creating the things that are coming to us. So, it's it still feels weird after four years. It's frustrating and it's it's a strange situation to be in because >> you want to make

026change and do things, but you know, there's a 1200page packet that needs to be read and or whatever. But anyway, >> um I mean this is ironic because of the first question and now the second question, but I feel differently about specifically this the budget subcommittee. I mean, I know it's part of it, but it was really like for me, one, I didn't feel like the decision was made. That was the point of taking a boat and everything, but also I think being a board member sometimes is hearing everything. And I understand like maybe people um did not feel like did not feel like their voice was heard, but personally I guess like I heard it and it was out of all the pain and terrible things like I I guess I was like most

027personally conflicted about community high school personally, but like for the greater good as a taxpayer, I still had to keep that in mind, you know. So, like it's it is just a delicate balance of especially in a small district where it's like everyone, you know, and everything, >> but um and if people interpreted my stuff or whatever as like having dead set on this decision, I wasn't. It was just like these fiscal decisions had to be made. And again, I'm like not really positive that it was solved, but it's like trying to push some incremental improvement, you know. Um, but in general, that was very specific, but in general, um, I yeah, I I don't know if community values are supported. Not Not like that's not like we're not doing our job. I just feel

028like in my own like family and just like I don't really know what's going on in the community and you know it's a very small area. >> Well, it's hard like how does a trans represent community values, right? It's something we have to do and so much of our policy what we have to do >> is not community values. It's keeping our fiscal solveny or keeping exactly keeping the district moving. So that's the that's the difficulty and I think your example is a very good one Mike because it's like you know we can hear some of these things but like again it's I mean yeah that there have been some of there that vote many votes I would say in my years on the board have been so conflicted because in my heart I want

029to do X but I know for the district that or I believe I shouldn't say I know but in my voting role for the district Y is the right thing to do even though X feels better it sounds better. It's what I want for everything, but I just can't get behind it knowing what the consequences would be. That makes sense. So, that's that's the difficulty and that does lead to potential disenfranchisement from the community because it sounds it seems like we told you we needed this. We said a 100 people signed a petition and said we need this and then you didn't do it. And I don't I don't know of a way we solve that because I think that is going to make the community feel like they weren't heard. And I mean uh

030I I mean to take to other on the other hand of me I mean clearly we weren't listening to community values in a way because our community voted for this bond and then we cut or I voted to cut like educa digital education and that sort of thing. It's just sticky and messy to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But u that going in. >> Yeah. Thanks. >> Your task is to balance competing interests. >> Yeah. I think you you have to uh the job of the board is to be sure that the public understands the reasons for your upcoming vote. Okay. And to that extent, you may hear blowback because you're you didn't give adequate reasoning. Yeah. >> To enough people. >> Yeah. >> And you're and so you're getting uh blowback because they don't

031get it. And and um you know, so that that's something that you want to look at and balance for sure. Um but you know our charge is number one to uh employ the superintendent and number two to be fiscally solvent as well as deliver an education. So um you know that's a community value too. They they voted for us to do that. Um so so the other values that come up you know like whether this teacher is more important than something else or you know is is going to be kind of personal on certain or of value to certain groups maybe um but I think that you can go a long way by uh letting people know that um you have heard them and you're you wish that you could accommodate what they want and

032it's not possible right now. Um, you know, I just think about this one guy that came to the board meeting before I was on the board and he got up there and he said, "Okay, you guys really need to look at engineering. you are missing the boat as at the high school because you are not focusing on engineering and it's it is a big upand cominging field. you need to be and then you know and then what whoever was the board president said well thank you for your comments you know that's it but what you can do to say to this person is would you like to please put that on an agenda you have the right as the public to suggest an agenda item and you know because really if you really want something

033seriously discussed that's the only way it's going to happen if you just come up and and make a suggestion one time at a board meeting, it's going to get dismissed. So, so those are ways that we as a board can, you know, help the public be more involved, you know. >> Yeah. That I mean, that's amazing to me, like giving the public the tools about better tools about how things are done and how to get more of what you want out there. I think you know in general we as a district and we as a board just need to do so basically the the proform of like thank you for your comment is not satisfying. Um but the the suggestion about how to get that going would be great in my opinion. >> Thank you.

034It's a concrete suggestion. >> But it's a balance. Sorry, I hate to say that. It's a balance because if I come up and I say, "I want all the kids to learn about Flying Spaghetti Monster and now Beth is president." Are you going to say, "Hey, if you want, please put that as a future item." So, it's like by saying that comment, you're making a statement. >> I will be >> right. But then, you know, I think that's the difficulty. >> Well, it is difficult, but you know, you you kind of I've, you know, I've been board president in the past. Um, and I've had to deal with people who are very passionate coming up to the podium and I could see that just saying thank you for your comment was going to be so

035defeating and yeah, they would walk away like and so those are the people that you have to give them something, you know, you have to be able to say something to them without veering into a conversation or anything. But you have to be able to recognize that they are, you know, very passionate about this or um upset about this and that we as a board are are taking that in. You know, you have to let them know we we are really hearing you and you know, contact us later or whatever. >> And that's I think the key thing is there's other tools too like please or please follow up. There's different tools we can use because I think we don't want to tell everyone to put on the agenda. >> No, no, yeah. >> Right.

036I think sometimes if it's something that egregious or you know they're coming forward and complaining about you know whatever it could be that comment alone you know superintendent will be following up with you directly or something like that can be very right. >> Yes. >> Good point. Good point. I'm going to move to the next page. >> Okay. I think I I think there's a judgment call. If somebody wants to to how to discuss how to defend against the alien invasion, you know, you may not take that real seriously. Uh okay. Okay. Uh board members attempt to assure the community educational aspirations are adequately reflected at board meetings and there was at least one who felt that was not adequately done. I think we kind of dealt with that previously, but I I don't know

037what you guys do as well with number two. But >> there's anything anybody wants to say or we can move on. But um next one is that during the decision-making process, board members think independently, but are careful not to make statements or commitments on behalf of the board. At least one person felt that we weren't doing that adequately. Anybody want to expand or comment on that? >> I think you're just hard on yourself when you >> Well, I think this is it's always this one is always a balance to me because I think it's very hard to say. I mean, I think we can all do better about saying this is something I'm interested in or do we all agree on this? And then that way we can make sure that because I think it's

038it can be easy especially even that like future agenda items like it's very easy to just be like hey this is something I'm really interested in and I think when you leave that without the board we all agree I I don't know if that's again I don't know what I am. >> So it's a matter of how you communicate it. >> Yeah. To see if you go okay >> it is my opinion not on the board. I mean I think that Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh once a decision is made, all board members respect and support the decision and the board speaks with one voice and there's at least two who felt that was not sufficiently done. Think I gave it the five. Anybody want to speak to uh >> might be a little bit of

039a hangover from past boards and past decisions where things have come up? But I, you know, I think I think there's just times where things come back up after a decision's been made. And I think that's something that I would challenge us all with. If a vote went the way you didn't want it to if you run into someone in the grocery store, are you going to say, "Well, I voted against that, but this or are you going to be like, "Yeah, this is what the board decided, and this is is a tough decision, and this is why." That's something I just think we all could try to do better with, but it's not an easy one. I don't know that I don't remember. >> Is is there a sense that that board members try

040to undercut decisions of the board? They voted against it because that's what this one really goes to. >> I don't think that I think undercut I've not seen anyone try to undercut another board member. I don't think that that's I can't remember what I answered either, but it wasn't the five. >> Um >> Okay. >> But I I think um >> yeah, I can't I it's it's hard to it's hard to nail something down when I'm thinking of this. I will say though, I I never talk to anyone at the grocery store. They try, but it doesn't happen. But I mean really for this one I'd say um it is difficult. It's difficult you know when things don't go especially if um if it's not unanimous you know >> that can be hard and it

041does depend on what it is you know and if it's say contentious but you know if if there's emotion behind it which of course there's going to be because we all care about what we're doing there's no way around it. Um, but as far as undercutting or doing anything that's sort of like undermining to another board member, that's not happening. That's not how I took the question at all. >> Okay, this is an important one because there are boards out there that do if they voted against it, then they'll they might and they lost on the vote, they might represent, well, that's what they did as opposed to I'm part of that board and I'm standing by the decision of that board whether I agreed with it or not. that is critical in maintaining public

042confidence in the board. >> And and if board members do go out and say, "Well, they did this and separate themselves from the group as opposed to supporting a decision that may not have been something they wanted." Uh then the you're going to start dividing the community into that and that's not healthy for your district. But I don't see your board doing that. >> No. And I think that when we have something to say, we say it at the DAS, it gets out. I mean, we're not I don't think anybody here is like pussy-footing around each other that we're not going to say something. So, we, you know, I'm >> okay. >> So, I feel like people know how we feel because we say so, you know, in the discussion or know what we're representing

043or I don't know. Um, >> but yeah, I think it's done. It's I don't that I've heard. No one's going around in the community and saying, you know, not my not my board or what, whatever. >> Not my decision. I >> I don't feel like it's undercut, but like the speak with one voice like like after what's the security the police officer >> safety? Yeah, >> that's right. uh like after that you weren't there at that meeting and like you know it wasn't like we voted against this I know because you couldn't you weren't there so you couldn't voice your opinion at that time but it's like it's still I don't know it feels sometimes like you all did this and not me you know whereas like once a decision is made the board voted

044collectively to do this you you know, like um it's not an undercutting. It's just like a speaking with one voice after the fact. I feel >> like like I I feel like it's not it's not not my board, but it's it's uh it's like >> it's not support of the decision either there, right? It's not like Supreme. >> Yeah. or like saying that the board did it, you know, even if it's contentious, it's still the the result of of the the majority or whatever. Um, >> yeah, thanks for that. Okay. I Okay. I think it's important to recognize that if you want to maintain community support, you whether you agree with the particular decision or not, it was our our collective decision. I voted against it. I expressed my my views. I gave my opinion

045and our end result is we're moving in this direction and I'm going to support that. Okay? That's going to reinforce community support for your district as opposed to start dividing it into segments and groups. The next one you're unanimous on. They all are very good about close session information. There's no no question there. There's a little bit there's one one person who had a concern about um the board works to strengthen public confidence in the board and the district leadership. Is there a feeling that the board I think I would just say I think it's tough when there's when there are tough decisions. It's sometimes hard to focus on the decision and not the people making that way >> or when there's a tough decision, it's hard to sometimes focus on the decision and other

046people making the decision or a mistake >> like I mean I can't think of any mistakes in the packet like I know >> we're all can be potentially hard on ourselves for that sort of stuff but is it is it >> again is it the a grave m you know again or do we all make mistakes and look for ways to fix them? It's like just that perspective as a whole. I think I would say that was probably where I give myself I might have got done it too. >> Mhm. >> I don't think that was I don't remember. >> Great. Um, next one was board members understand and comply with their commitments to each other reflected in the board governance handbook and there was was one lower mark. Does anybody want to speak to

047that? Okay. Uh, all meetings comply with the Brown Act. Um, one felt that there may be an issue there. Is that uh a deep concern or serious concern somebody wants to speak to? >> I that was me. The two was from me and that came out of the subcommittee. Um, so when you have two board members in basically what amounts to a closed session with others, not a board closed session, but inside of a closed meeting, um, the likelihood of a Brown Act violation is pretty high. You just need one comment to one other board member or one brief conversation and now you've got a true Brown Act violation. So, um, especially when it came to the budget subcommittee, I had concerns about that and I don't know for sure, but my sense is that

048um, there may have been conversation outside of what occurred in that meeting. Um, I don't know, but the perception could be there to me. The perception is there for me. it could be there to the community and it's a really bad look for our district when you have two trustees um making decisions or coming up with options. No matter what it is, budget subcommittee, any subcommittee truly, it's something that we need to look at because you do come up with um it it really does um it can it can lend to the perception easily that that we would be in violation of a Brown Act. So, I was the two on that because I I feel like we could do things better when it comes to subcommittee work. I don't know how other districts do

049that. I mean, but with a board of five, you kind of get stuck. You know, we're not Maybe the subcommittee has one. I don't know. But it it does it can be pretty slippery, I think. And it it's it wouldn't be a good look. >> Like you're saying like uh the two from the subcommittee would talk to a third, >> right? or or one from just one would talk to a third and now you have >> um >> what is it called? >> It's a serial meeting. >> Yeah. >> So it's excluding So >> it's just not a good look, you know. >> Okay. >> Just speak for myself. I talk to no one. I mean like >> No, I I get it. But here's the thing is it's the appearance. Whether you do or

050you do not, the appearance can be there. So someone from the community could say or somebody that might not agree with the decision could say, "Oh, well, you know what happened? There was two of them in that meeting and all they got to do is talk to one and then there you go." And then because we did have a vote that was three to two. So what happened there? And then you get into the public questioning if things are happening behind the scenes. So I gave it a two because I think that we need to improve that process for appearance sake. appreciate that. >> I get that unrelated just again I want to go on I feel like I brought this up on record before but I feel like the Brown Act is so like

051the impact of it is like so not how it was intended and uh if I ever have energy I would go to Sacramento to be like there's got to be a better way to do this. >> Yeah. Yeah. It it has created some problems >> so limiting facets of it too. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah, >> I think the biggest limitation is it just I think the limitation the restriction on just ability for relationships and connection you know with one another as trustees because I think there's such a fear about that that oh we're going to violate something right and even just for us to get together as a governance you know team right and within the community if we're doing something social right it has to be out in the open >> exactly yeah would

052Lou would you um discourage two board members from being on a subcommittee because of that. >> It's not a Brown Act violation. And and number nine actually goes to Brown Act violate. Do we comply with the Brown Act? So I think what we're talking about now is potential perceptions of the public of a Brown Act violation and whether it's a concern out there. There's a buzz out there and people are talking about then maybe it's something you address. If it's it depends on how important it is. seriously this issue is to you from a legal perspective. It is not a Brown Act violation. As long as the two board members who are on the committee don't speak to a third outside of a meeting, if they speak to a a third outside of the meeting,

053it's a Brown Act violation. This is what we decided. I wanted you to know blah blah blah. That is a Brown violation. But to come and report this is what we discussed at the meeting at a regular meeting or special meeting. It's not an issue, not a legal issue. Yeah. Okay. Are we okay with moving on to the next? Okay. Board presidents and superintendent jointly develop an agenda that reflects the needs of the board, the superintendent and the district. And there was one who thought this area needs major improvement. Was there something we want to address? I'll just say quickly I don't I'm pretty sure I was not the one but I think nine and 10 both of these is again that perception and I think it's just a natural in this process inequality and

054power right I mean the board president and clerk have the ability to set the agenda and so sometimes if people come they're like wait I don't remember this being on the future like I think it just creates that perception that is again may not reflect reality that is difficult again because of the Brown Act that we can't say that you know President McNary can't say to all of us hey this is what the agenda looks like what do you guys think so that means means you're creating a power imbalance. It can create that perception. That's that's where I interpreted 9 and 10. >> Yeah. Are you still using the system? I know you were before and at one point this the board was not as united as it currently is. Um and there was more

055of a division among the board. And I think that may have led you to have the clerk and the board president meet with the superintendent and setting the agenda. That is not totally common. It's usually just the president and the superintendent who meet. You might want to think, do we want to continue that? If you're having the clerk and the board president meet, is that something you want to continue? Is it a problem? Is there community perception an issue, etc.? So, something you might want to think about in the future. >> Uh, clerks, you are setting the agenda with with President McNary. Yes, I go in there. And I'll just say from my past here, we always did that. >> Okay. Okay. >> Well, I think it's a good idea, too. I mean, maybe not

056for you because you've already had the role of board president, but a lot of times the clerk is the one that assumes the role of president. So having the clerk in during agenda setting meetings I think is nice just because then it's not a huge shock when they go in and then the board is kind of set back or you're having to guide somebody. I don't know. I mean I think it makes it makes sense. >> Well also like yeah I'm in favor of it because it's more eyes on the agenda. I mean, if we can't all decide the agenda, at least I don't know what percentage you go, but you know, it's >> I'm just kidding. I don't know. >> Um, it's it's just it's not one person dictating the agenda, you know, there's

057some. So, I think it's >> Yeah. And I think too that you know the board president should be checking in with the rest of the board. You know if there's some if there's a style of the agenda that's that a board member another board member feels isn't working well that's you know then you want that input because when you're setting the agenda I mean the superintendent is bringing the items. You're not creating items most of the time. Um, so, so the two people that are there, the president and the clerk are really just affirming the order and how long things should take and do we do we want to put this over here or there. So, that's really what's happening there. It's more than um discussing any subject per se. It's about procedures and um

058but a board president should be checking in with the rest of the board to see that the the way it's construed or constructed is is you know okay with everyone or you have other suggestions. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes you'll say hey you know this this item's way at the bottom and we got all these people here. Can we move it to the top? you know, >> or I mean in the past you pulled an item from consent because it was like a >> Yes. >> a reporting like a annual reporting thing. >> I will do that but >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I like the idea of the two only because I think sometimes there will be something you miss if it's just you with the president. I think you know that additional voice

059of you know the clerk brings on another perspective very often, right? So I mean it's definitely valuable but I get that it's unusual as well Lou and you know I think it's something >> just one quick addition in the past we did allow rotational too I don't know if that's something we want to consider that it's not the president but someone else they wanted that chance to go and do that because it is a valuable learning experience >> sorry maybe I got you a meeting or two >> that might be something we want to reconsider >> no I that was something I advocated before was just to give other board members a chance to you know put in to our time with that. >> Doesn't sound like this is a major issue for you. >>

060All right. The next two actually everybody it was in agreement that it's adequate not well done. So unless you want to talk about 11 and 12, we can move to 13. I I just I think or some of the items that we know we're receiving or some of the issues that we're receiving on like an annual schedule or big things. Maybe we can't, but it would be nice to get that portion of the presentation or information before um yeah, if possible because we know they're coming and you know, scrambling over the weekend or whatever to read a giant packet isn't cohesive for thinking deeply about a subject all the time or that sort of thing. So, if possible, I'd like more time because I'm not a procrastinator, >> right? So it could almost be like

061a living packet where it's like as things are finalized it could go in it could be a Google doc go in and see like you know obviously when it's finalized but I don't know if that's what you're considering. >> Yeah. I mean I don't think it would apply to every meeting but like the budget stuff. I mean, I don't think it really helped the budget subcommittee's case or or the district's recommendation to put that off until the Friday before the vote, you know, to kind of sit with it and then be able to ask questions would be helpful, you know. Um, yeah, >> from a staff perspective, I mean, we are that's time crunch that week getting everything ready, you know. Um, so I think for us to even get it by that Friday before

062the meeting, you know, especially when, you know, two meetings in a month, it's just it it's just a lot of, you know, time and effort, you know, to to get them ready, right? And I I was just saying is if we had it, you know, ready by the Wednesday, could we send it in advance? I think the only challenge with that, you know, Lean, um, I think, you know, anything we're sharing with the board in advance of posting to the community, I don't I think >> it's got to be posted at the same time it's given >> well something I really appreciate. >> Yeah. This is a common problem because of the complexity of a district and the staff, all the demands of trying to get everything together. You know, it's hard. Um, two felt

063that the the meeting length is not appropriate and I suspect that is >> not that it's too short. I >> Oh, wait. We skipped over 12. >> Um, because everybody >> Oh, I see. I see. Okay. Sorry. >> But we can talk about it. No. And I would say 13 and 16 are kind of tied together too. >> Yeah. So thoughts about 13. What length of the mean? >> Yeah. >> I don't remember if I was the the one or the two, but I'm definitely not a three. So I'm either the one or the two. um they run long it and the community is not going to hang on to watch a late meeting. So I think that we could do a better job of consolidating. Um, and it's hard too because I like to

064talk, so I'm probably part of the problem. But, um, I think that we could do a better job of consolidating um, >> like limit limiting the amount of agenda items sometimes, >> you know. I don't know, but I I feel like it's just Yeah, I don't know. I just I just marked my mark and I think that they run long. I don't know that I have a solution, but >> is it board comment? Is it something the board can control in terms of there are some districts that limit the board members comment time as well as the public's comment time? Um just because they have some board members who talk a lot more than others. I don't you know uh what would you do to shorten >> I think some of Can I speak to

065that? Yeah, I mean I think some of it's filler sometimes and I don't think that's by any design, but I think I'm I know I'm a not a good awkward pause person, so sometimes I will say things if I feel like something should be said, but it's not necessarily always in the best interest of the meeting. So, I think that's one and I think I I'll especially since she's not here, but uh for President Monary, she's in the toughest spot because she has the most she has to say, but it's again, how do you say it as concisely and efficiently as possible so that you're not, you know, extending things on? And that's just that's a difficult balance to have. >> How late are your meetings running? What do you what's your normal end time?

066>> We've gotten a lot better. We've gotten better, but I mean some late ones say in the past couple of months, you know, that have gone right long, right? But yeah, and I think that's maybe, you know, >> Oh, yeah. >> I'd walk out. Then I need my walk out music. I'd really need one. >> I think your mic's not on. Your mic's not on. >> Sorry. >> Okay. >> President Shamas, your mic's not on. It's okay. >> Um, is there anything anybody wants to suggest? >> I would just say self-reflection on what you say as a whole. And I'll look at everybody. >> Well, and here I am pulling consent items, you know. So, I'm guilty of of making things take longer, but >> I think we all are. >> I'm not going to

067stop doing it. So, I guess I can Yeah. >> No, I like it. I like it because look, it's the only time that we have to do school business. And I think that's the way you got to look at it. Like, yeah, the meetings are long long, but we don't have a lot of time devoted to school businesses. So, it's it so we they're going to run a little bit long. And it's important to get you to be able to say what you're, you know, concerned about or it's important. I just I don't I don't have a problem with it. But >> I'll give a secondary comment though on that is do you think in your days of meeting turning to 1 a.m. do you think you were making as sound of decision at 12:00

068a.m. as you were as at 8? So I think the problem is the later you go the less attention you're able to pay just because of >> you're tired. Yeah. So that that's my concern with it. >> Yeah, that's why we put in the 10 because we had a board member who was coming from work and she was just getting like grouchier and grouchier and then she finally said, you know, like so then we realized like, okay, we have to do something and that's when we instituted the 10:00 stop with one just one extension and after that it was okay. So that that's why I would just say I think we all if we all try to be more concise, I think it would be in the good interest of everyone involved without hopefully limiting

069our ability to >> of course >> like everything that we've said all throughout tonight like there's a yes and or whatever, but like like the pulling of the the transportation stuff. Uh, I think that set of eyes and kind of that focus is good for well, it's got me thinking like I emailed uh, Superintendent Adamson about like should this form be redesigned, you know, like and it'll put more focus on the staff to get it in early. Like I think kind of highlighting it and bringing up like the things that may have been glossed over in the past are good. So like there's a very real concrete uh benefit of of pulling things. It's just I think sometimes and not not very recently but I think like there were like a few presentations a few

070like giant uh presentations from staff on top of that and that that was when I felt like yeah these presentation or like the decisions aren't being made best and the wherewithal of the audience just diminishes you know it goes down. >> Yeah. And I think that I mean I don't know Lewis might be the one to cuz I'm not I I don't have it on my computer but to watch the people slowly just dropping off the meeting as it gets later and later because most of these everyone's got well not everybody but people have kids and that you know they've got to get up for work in the morning and if they're item has gotten pushed and pushed and pushed which is not happening so much anymore because the agenda is now like organized much

071better. Um, but you know, that's the thing that I think about too is community. And I will say as far as the consent items go, and this is probably I shouldn't be saying it out loud, but I'm going to. Uh, but I I don't ask prior to it to get it corrected because I think it's something that needs to come out in at the dis so that everyone is hearing that there's someone looking at these and you're taking our kids out of the county or overnight. it needs to be filled out correctly. And so that's why I don't take care of it beforehand. And I feel like it's getting better. It's gotten a lot better because then I don't know if that's why, but I do agree that the form could be changed, but that's

072not for here. and we've made some adjustments whatever as a result of that input and feedback you know and I think you know even if it is pointed out ahead of time and we are able have a chance to correct it you still as a board member have the opportunity at that time to say you know I called this out and thank you you know in advance for making the correction you know so it's a it's a balance of it but just know yeah I mean you know as a result of identifying some of those you know we've been able to improve the systems which is great >> well and I also want helpful I also want the community and parents to know that there's somebody looking at that >> and that if it's not

073filled out correctly that there's someone that's seeing it and pulling it out and calling it out. So, >> I'm good. >> On the facilities adequacy for staff and the public, everybody was was fine with that. So, unless there's >> didn't make it a five, but you're Um the meeting is running efficiently. Are people calling um the superintendent with questions in advance in order to get answers to consolidate the time? There was >> yes we have a system for that now and it's I think it's works well. I I think the time there's the realities of life get in the way though so much of it and I don't that's I don't think there's an easy solution but on >> assuming you know to get questions in in time >> exactly for everything to line up

074you know it means that we have to have you know things come in right the right time Friday and we happen to have the time on the weekend you know just for everything line up and that's I think again that's just human >> but I think the option or that >> the structure is very good for yeah >> making it happen I agree >> is there anybody who wants to suggest test. Any changes on that? Hearing none. Um, there was a little concern about the respect board members show each other. >> It can get a little testy, but I don't mind it. >> I'll second that. That's a great way to put it. Yeah, that's fine. We all We are >> voting. Yay. >> Would you make any changes in that? >> But I'll just

075say, >> oh, I was just going to say that I mean our our norms are, you know, to treat each other well. And I mean I I think that if that we can point that out if we feel someone's being a little, >> you know, testy. >> Yeah. And it's not personal when we do that. No. And and so I would say like everybody here I mean we all are here for a reason and we all have the same common goal. We all have differences of opinions even if the opinions are wrong and stupid like some of us. >> That was thanks for looking at me again. >> I looked around. I looked around. I would look at myself. >> There's two of you here and one there. I didn't want to. >> No, I

076don't I think people um that are watching us are, you know, if they're cuz we were getting some feedback like that and I I think it's I think that's a little over the top because I mean we're normal, you know, we're working together. Um people are going to have disagreements, maybe, you know, they taken things the wrong way. It's just I mean I just don't take that serious. I mean, we're not I don't feel like we are at a point where no one can talk to each other. So, I'm okay. I'm I'm okay with it. But, I mean, I I'm kind of surprised what people get like like, oh, they'll roll their eyes at me like, you know, it's okay. Like, not offended. >> Is there a feeling about staff? Is it any different that

077that staff is not treated with respect consistently? Yeah, I would go back to just the same thing about the appearance. I don't think there's ever an intent. I I think with folks on the board, I think every single one of us means the best with that. But I think there's times where we do things or say things that can be interpreted that way. And that I was not the two I don't think but that would be my interpretation right because there's the there's the intent versus impact or intent versus interpretation and I think that's where the difficulty >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. Is it it's anything Elliot that you feel the board needs to address? >> I would No, I would say just it's the same the classic do to others type rule, right? It's just

078like even if you think someone's coming at something for the wrong reason or whatever, it's just like again they're entitled to their their stupid wrong opinions as much as you are. >> Well, they're good opinions. I'm just saying I'm saying with humor. >> Yeah. But it's the point is again everyone has you know there's there's another quote I could use that I won't about opinion. Everyone has them. I'll just say >> there were there was a feeling that board members all board members don't understand how to put things on the edge. I >> just love that you're doing because it's um board members treat staff in public with respect. You're about to get like 50 emails. >> Okay, moving on. >> Okay. Um how about understanding procedures replacing items on the agenda? >> Sorry, can

079I come back to this? >> Yeah, definitely. Like I think the the intended impact difference between if we're like personnicity or like having a discussion is like there's definitely a power imbalance with staff and like that feels like when trustee schmas says you are so dumb to me I'm like oh no you no uh but you know like a a teacher >> or or someone in the district It's like it's not a fair it's it's not always it's just a weird power imbalance and and that feels or that would feel um unfair and and I this is one I in the past I know we've said I would love to get staff to answer that question thinking the same thing >> like there's not all these questions but that's one I'd love to hear from

080people to hear do they feel like the board is disrespectful and it doesn't have to be named but I think that would be a lot more powerful than us saying it again. >> And you're talking about when we're at a meeting, not >> that was I was going to clarify that too. I wondered if what if you were talking about specifically at the diet or outside of >> I mean I think I think it goes both. I mean I think if >> I think you could actually have that differentiation >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Sorry. I mean like I was specifically at you know >> because you're okay being rude to them in person. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Jokes jokes with Okay. should have a sign like LOL. >> Okay, we're making progress.

081>> Is cringing. >> He's waiting for the emails to start coming. >> Yeah, >> the lawsuits are going to come rolling in. L. >> Okay. Um, all board members understand the procedures for placing things on the agenda. That one person felt that may not be the case. >> It was probably me. I'm just confused in general. >> Okay. An issue that to address or not? Do you want a a lesson on that? >> No. I mean, um, no, it's it's >> because all board members can raise the issue at a board meeting and saying, uh, this isn't something I'd like to have on a future agenda. >> And we have the website where we can put in agenda items. I'm still invant and say, hey, this is something I'd like to consider CC Linda all

082options. But yeah, but it doesn't always make it onto the agenda. That's a tricky thing. But that's another part of fun process. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Number 20 was seemed to be fine. Everybody was good with that. Number 21, there was one who felt that uh the board on behalf of the committee considers its most important job to be setting a clear direction for the district and there was a concern about that. anything we want to discuss and you bring up concern. >> I don't know if it was the three or the one or honestly the four. I don't I don't think so. But I do think again um the clarity I know this is ironic from a true mumbler and tangent maker but uh the clarity of what we're doing and why

083we're doing I think is not always there. Um, and I think, you know, that's all that's a focus of all of our This is so ironic. This is a this is a focus for us. So, Beth, take it over. >> Well, I was another five on that one, but just because I thought it was um um kind of a vague statement. Um, so I'm I'm really judging our intent maybe more than our actual performance in that. Um, but I do think that if we if we feel that we're not >> setting clear goals, >> then that is something when we sit down with the superintendent, you know, that we have to um address. Like we talked a little bit about this, but just, you know, and and it is a fair question about how clear

084you're being, you know, cuz it um it can be too visionary and not enough um you know, doable, relatable type of goal >> or too bureaucratic too. I think yeah, the language of >> Yes. local government is not always clear. All right. Um, moving on to 22. The board is open and engaged in two-way conversations with the community, gathering information that enables it to speak on behalf of the community and provide educational leadership for the community. There was one who just simply didn't have enough information, but everybody else seemed to. Is that something we want to discuss? You want to discuss? >> Yes, that was me. It was a zero. Um, so some of this goes to the way that that boards operate just in general. Thank you for your comment. That kind of thing.

085Um, some of it goes back to the community sending in emails with items of concern or a group of people that are concerned about something and it never quite goes anywhere. Um, so I feel like we have the idea that we we want to be engaged with a community. Um, but I don't know that that's actually happening. I don't truly feel that when the community is speaking up about something that's important to them that actions being taken based off of that. I think that that if there's something already in motion that the district will continue to keep it in motion as it sees um fit. And um it's difficult at times sitting up there and kind of watching it happen and knowing that the community is trying to engage with us and trying to engage

086and let their opinions be known. Um, and they're not they're receiving an email that's thank you for your email or some variation of that. So, um, so no, I I don't I don't I know we're talking about the board, but it's also the district because as individual board members, we really kind of can't engage in two-way conversations with a community because we can't speak on behalf of the board. and me giving my opinion about something is sort of it goes back to what we were talking about earlier about you know um the board has to be one. So this question is interesting because it's um we're limited in what we can say as a board. Um but at the same time representing the district I feel like community could be heard a little more clearly

087and I think that their voice is lost sometimes in um in the decision-m process. >> How would you change that Laura? >> You know it's hard to say. I think um I think trying to engage community earlier I think um really reflecting when we get feedback from the community reflecting in a way that shows that we're hearing them so that it's seen in policies and decision-m as opposed to just yeah we heard you. I don't know. um it would have to be reflected in the decisions that are make that are being uh sorry the um the items that are coming forward to us and then in the decisions that are being made. So we have to take that as board members as well. If we're getting feedback from the community, you know, I'm how we

088got here. It's taxpayers. We're elected officials and we can have opinions about things, but if the community is saying something loudly, um, we have an obligation to listen. I don't think that we always do that. I think we could do a much better job. Um, I think like the I'm guessing I did a three. like the two-way conversations is like a sticky subject because, you know, if I'm at one of my kids schools and a staff member saying something like I don't I don't want to give the appearance of like favoring or like singling out that one concern. Um, so I I feel like I haven't found the balance or I don't exactly know how to do it. But the other part is when we're speaking to parents, I guess, or or other family members,

089I think, um, I think before a vote has been made, I think it makes sense to to voice our opinion to to give the community like how we individually are. I think that's like slightly different than a a retro, you know, something that we've voted on, I guess. Um, that being said, I haven't really shared like my personal opinions with too many parents about something that's coming up, but it's just tricky, I guess, with the the two-way conversation. >> It really is. >> We should separate out um in your board meetings are are not town hall meetings. It's a completely different operation. You're there to make decisions, receive input, but not necessar it's not a press conference. It's not a town hall meeting. There are some issues that are extremely important and sensitive to the

090community where you may want to have a town hall meeting on to get input before you may have a board meeting where you make decisions. Um, >> can I just >> Yeah. >> But even after having those town hall meetings, if the community is feeling still unheard, like is the district really moving the needle based off of what the community is presenting? And that's what I'm talking about is that the community may show up to something or may send a ton of emails about one thing and the decision still continues as the decision was going to continue or the not the decision but the um well yeah I guess the decision >> you know so nothing has been moved the needle has not been moved by community input and I would like to see that

091change. Um, I I think that that the fact that we live in a community that's so engaged and is willing to engage and is willing to reach out and and actually want to be part of the decisions that are made, I think we're really lucky. And I think that we could do a better job of embracing that and supporting it. And the way we support it is to actually make let the needle move as opposed to just collecting the information and saying thank you for coming and thank you for your input and then that's where it ends. >> I I have a thought on this because I mean this this might be one where there is a growth area. Just just think about what are the best practices for town halls like what could we

092be you know and I think it's whether it's the timing like because I think some of it's difficult like we're doing a town hall a week before we make a decision. It's going to be hard to like Yeah. >> Right. that that the school district is a train and it's really hard to make a 90 degree turn on a train and so it's just figuring out how do we do that and I think that's something we could try to take on is how do we make them >> like earlier it needs to be like well in advance of especially the large decisions it's got to be well in advance so that we can and maybe there's a few of them and then we can take all of the information you know and if there's of

093course there's going to be people that show up to all of them and voice their same opinion you know Does that count as three? No. But, you know, I just >> And what when this is one I honestly don't have an answer to, like what's the right balance of like presentation versus input? Like I mean, you know, do we want to do two-thirds presentation, one-/3 input? Like whether like these are the kind of things which again, I'm sure there's folks out there or groups out there that could talk about, hey, these town halls, this is what's worked well for us and what hasn't, but I I don't have a good answer. or even partial presentation followed by input then the you know breaking the presentation up so that it's palatable and people can process as

094they're hearing it and give feedback. I don't know but I just I know that I I couldn't I yeah I'm the zero fine to admit that to say that out loud. I think >> like the um the phrasing of this question like the board is open to engage two-way conversations and then the suggestion about the town hall is also tricky because when we've done these community forums it's still been very much the district presenting and so like the amount of how much we're leading the discussion seems like you know I don't want to micromanage and there's You know, it's again the balance of like representing the district, but I guess to conduct to be able to speak our own individual views, I guess, in a public form outside of the board meeting or something that

095is completely organized by district staff is something that I haven't felt empowered or would be really proper. I don't know if it would be proper or improper. when you when you have a town hall meeting and you have a majority of the board there, it's a board meeting. So, but how you structure it, it's a board meeting in the sense the Brown Act and you have to give the appropriate notice and you have to have the agenda and that sort of thing, but it is more of an opportunity for community comment, staff presentations, community comment on it rather than decision making. >> Yeah. It's not even decision- making. It's uh opinion voicing and intake I guess from the community like uh like if trusty wanted to have a talk about allergens in the food you

096know and you know this is what I'm thinking this is my experience with with my sons this is why it's important and to kind of solicit feedback from her position about other families experiences. I think that's way different than the district presenting >> and it could still be in public. I mean I guess there could be a agenda about you know what their concerns are. >> At the same time I don't think it would be appropriate as a board member. I could go out and do that as Laura Amar, like mom of two boys, >> you know, citizen of Pacific Grove, >> but going out as saying like I am a trustee and I am going to talk about allergens because at that point now I'm representing the board, right? As soon as I identify

097myself as a trustee, my opinion or everything I say, I'm representing this entire board and I can't go out and >> that would be inappropriate for me to do that. Is that how is that how it works? >> It it's technically no. Practically yes. >> Exactly. >> It's appearance. Appearance, you know. >> Yeah. It's it's >> like if I walk into um a conference with a teacher and and I say, "Hi, I'm here. Trusty Amar reporting, whatever." Who would do that? But I'm just saying it's like but it's the appear it's the appearance of I may not be representing the board but I've just informed you that I am a trustee on the school board. >> Yeah. >> And a little gross but like but it's it's you know >> Yeah. >> So this question

098is super difficult and the way I think I interpret it was more of um because we can't really engage in effective two-way conversation. It's difficult without giving as a trustee without giving my opinion and representing the board in that opinion. It's just it's this was it's messy. So I interpret it as district and then in turn the board decision-m >> I guess this question is a little broader too because it could be are you open to people coming to you and expressing their views about the district and how do you individually? Yeah, I imagine it would I imagine it would happen in the supermarket parking lot or in the aisles or at a restaurant or wherever. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean I think in that arena I operate out of a lot of fear because

099uh when maybe when I was starting or something you know I don't want to get involved with an employes conflict with a parent or something that that's not our view that's principles and everything but also I still want to hear about a family's experience of what's happening to them. So, it is that balance of like I want to hear you out, but I don't want to represent or make promises about what the board is saying. >> Yeah. So, that's the that's the piece of the two-way conversation. This sort of like it really is one-sided and you can I mean, I I listen and I say, "Okay, I hear you. I hear you >> and I'm so glad you're talking about this." Like, it's important that you're talking about it. You might, you know, you should

100reach out to and I'll see you reach out to the superintendent or reach make sure that you're reaching out to the to the principal, whatever, you know, whoever the next person in line is >> kind of all you can do is give them the resource, but but it is there. But that's not a two-way conversation. >> No. >> And it doesn't feel very satisfying if you're a disgruntled or >> I just say so just about the town hall meeting, you know, in the community forums, whichever we call them. But um you know I think the value about those is it it does you know versus a board meeting you've got someone who comes up it's public comment there's no ch that's the awkwardness we talk about right I think what I love about the community

101forum piece of the town hall is that ability to yes you know engage and answer questions and have that's the two-way dialogue I see it as um you know I think it's also an opportunity to provide and answer more questions you know I think at our last one you know yeah we may not have you know been able to you know address and And it may still be that feeling if we went ahead with a decision anyway about the reductions, you know, but so many people came forward at the end, you know, just saying how informative that was. They had a, you know, one understanding or version, you know, of how things worked and that, you know, at the end of that based on because of the question and answering session, you know, they were

102able to walk away with a different understanding. So I think that's how we should approach it. But I think absolutely you know what we want to do next year is have those well in advance right before we even get to you know the final decision-m piece because there is value to that right >> one quick thought on that is you know the I was thinking because the thing that is hard is for all of us to be there too and I think that's part of the goal of the governance team would be if we you know maybe we do it instead of a special meeting which realize we're not getting maybe not getting to as many agenda items but when it's an important issue and again that's kind of what that budget when we had

103the budget study session but I think maybe that could have been a town hall so we do it in a way that all the board members can be there on a normal Thursday every two week schedule um where the board members can also be part of that dialogue because I think that's the tough part is that it's hard for all of us to be at a you know these community forum particularly when we are putting so much effort into doing them and so just that's something just to think about one of these you know exploration ideas >> what does that look like as far as um so if we're all in attendance and it's board meeting, then it has to it's agendaized. >> It's agendaized. It's noticed >> and then as far as the back

104and forth goes with or conversations. This is Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, this is where I'm thinking. >> Yeah. I can see it unraveling really quickly because Yeah. There's Yeah, >> there's potential for that, but there's I think also potential for a lot of growth. I mean, yeah, that's scary. And you also have the potential for one group or one person to dominate it and you'd want to be able to manage the >> facilitate it properly. Yeah. >> Yeah. So you get all information from everybody and I think you made a point Elliot that is should not be lost. uh and that is you don't always know how many people agree with the speaker, you know, and how many people are silent on that issue or think quite differently and just aren't there, you

105know. So, you you you going to be your responsibility to weigh that information that you get and see how important it is in your decision- making whether you happen to agree with the opinion or not. >> At at the last meeting at the library, you were in person, right? and and Jen was there and then I was online. So would that technically be a board meeting >> if you had >> this is the Brown say >> for an hour I think right >> that was only pointed out afterwards and >> well I didn't say anything either but but I mean that's difficulty >> this is the difficulty yeah it's >> not easy yeah >> yeah that's another reason Why it makes sense if there's a way to do it as part of our special meeting?

106I mean, again, just thinking of a way. >> Linda's sweating. >> I know. >> Are you sweating? >> Let's say let's say I mean, I would love to just can we park this as like let's come up with some creative ideas and maybe we end up right in the same place we started. But at least that gives us rather Yeah, because I think that's what >> I think it's a nice idea. But I'm glad we're talking about it. Thank you everybody. >> Okay. Um 23. They're not talking. >> It's an appearance potentially, but as long as >> No, if you don't talk to each other and you don't talk. >> Yeah. So, we >> you can't you can't even get up and talk as an individual as opposed to with each other. >> But if

107three are in the room, it's a considered a board meeting. >> If they're all attending the same meeting, it is a board meeting. If they don't talk at all, >> but they're in attendance. >> We can all we can all go to the middle school anti-bullying awareness thing and it not be a boardmate meeting as long as we're not >> you're not talking. >> Yeah. So, I think we could even be in attendance in theory. Again, if Beth was if we were all sitting maybe at a table with name tags, that would be different than if Beth's in the audience because she could be attending as a grandparent, right? She has the right to do that. We don't have to like vote on who gets. >> You don't speak on the issue. But I mean

108again all all the hypotheticals if we go to Beetlejuice at the middle school. >> Yeah. No >> social veins don't social events don't count. You can have a backyard barbecue and have all five board members there. It's not a as long as you don't talk about school business. Appearance is a different issue. It's not a techn it's not a legal violation of Brown Act. long as you didn't talk about anything that pertains to the school, anything within the jurisdiction. >> But at Beetlejuice, you're commenting on the musical. >> Are you commenting or just observing it? >> You're fine. It's okay. As long as it's not up is it a matter that's up. >> You're not going to violate the Brown. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Do we need a five minute just to Okay. >> Okay.

109All right. >> Can I say one on 23? Just a quick one just to push is the one here. this to me and I don't think I don't know again I'll stop saying I don't know which number I am see this is me doing exactly what I said earlier I think this is the the are we putting out fires or are we setting a vision that is to me the biggest one of my biggest challenges I have as a board member is I feel like we're often putting out fires or doing the procedural things and we're not providing the clear vision because there was some fire we have to put out. That's the one that I I worry the most about is are we still moving in the you know are we helping move in

110the right uniform some fires have to be put out or or they destroy things if they get u but you should always have time for setting clear agendas and goals for the district. >> Yeah. I mean the goals we set for the superintendent is the goals for the district basically. Um so if if you feel that maybe we're not uh verbally affirming that enough uh you know we know what they are but we're not communicating it enough to the public. I'm not sure. No, it's to me it's more what if 10 parents come to us and they're worried because all the teachers are wearing sneakers instead of dress shoes now and I like do we potentially as a board be like wow we got 10 teachers come to us we need to consider this and

111put it not saying we always do that but again it's just that like there are going to be these shiny important objects along the way >> but is that >> if we're trying to again it's like are we trying to have more concise focused board meetings do we put all those things on versus not that's more what I'm thinking of is how do we make sure the things on our agenda are part of our district goals. Not and again it gets back to that community engagement, right? Like are we ignoring the community? If we don't put on the dress shoes versus sneakers debate, you take a vote. >> I I mean I think uh again there there's a balance of agendas and everything, but maybe if there was every month like a a discussion item

112about a long-term future thing that that really doesn't have a presentation but that we just wanted to talk about >> 23 >> that would be more proactive or offensive than playing defense. Yeah. >> And that we have had that in the past where there's just an item that we just want to discuss that we're not like it's not something we're having a presentation but it's like this is something that's come up enough and I mean that is maybe something we want to consider again. What would you change? >> I I like that idea of the discussion, especially the forward-looking. Um I think again it would just to me it would be a challenge on all on everybody on the board and the district office is are the decisions we're making moving us towards the vision

113or are we are we going down a road less traveled that might get us on a different path? I think that's just I think that's just something I try to do whenever I'm sitting there is is this the way we want to be going or are we doing a side which is an important might be an important side quest but is that the what the focus should be I think that's that's just an internal thing not a board thing but for each of us good point >> 24 uh board superant staff have developed clear attainable and measurable goals that move the district 4. This is sort of right what you're talking about and there's somebody who felt that you're not doing that. Is there is this an agenda setting item? Is this a are we

114talking about the important things where we're going? How we're doing? Uh, I don't know if I was the two, but I think it's again a communication packaging thing of um, not just resing the slogans, but really knowing what the I I don't know if parents could say what the measurable goals of the district are right now or what a a big kind of um focus of we're we're we're really working on STEM or CTE like from K through 12 we want everyone to be a chef or you know to really build up their CTE skills. I mean to have that kind of um planning or organization would be nice in a way to kind of recognize 24 and 25 are kind of aligned. I think that >> don't feel the LC cap the goals, you

115know, the four goals are clear enough. >> I think that's like a prejudice of me and just like zoning out on like >> Well, the fact that you don't know them, right, maybe just says that we're not doing a good enough job of putting that out there on what our four goals are, right? And simplifying them enough, right? I mean, >> yeah, I think >> board goals are also based on that as well. So it's >> and I think >> we've seen LCAP presentations uh but like having the everyday language without LCAP you know >> like removing the acronym so everybody really knows what it means. >> Yes. >> Okay. And that is a common you know that's a a challenge right I think that all districts face and it's always about you know I

116mean even our our goals I mean the whole purpose of it you know we simplified it to one one page so it could be you know more digestible and memorable and you know yeah clearly we can do better with that I think you know Mike I think even it starts with us as a governance team being able to kind of know them and have them in front of us maybe regularly you know there's that component of even every time everything that's on the agenda should really you know we could even get into the habit of even referencing you know what that alcap goal is you know that this speaks to right that it ties back to so >> well you know is the plan that directs the whole the whole district forward right yeah >>

117and I'm just looking at you know I remember when the board put this together on every sheet with um so that if you're looking at a a particular ular agenda item, it's checked, you know, like what is what is this coming under? What is the what is the titling of this particular item? And that it may not say that's the goal, but at least it gives you it gives the non board person a focus to see where this particular item falls under, you know. And again like again this is a big load for for staff and not feasible but like if that information if those checkboxes were more like in a database and could be filtered and searched like what are what are the four check boxes? >> Uh credibility and communication. >> Okay. So

118like if you could go on the website and search >> communicate yeah credibility >> communication >> items and like everything would pull up. it would just be so much more user friendly. And like I I've been thinking about this because of so many hearing about so many people or families switch one kid to private school or something like really treating families as customers because they are and like delivering the best service. Um, it just I I feel like that would be as a as a parent a dream, you know, to like have everything at my fingertips. This is probably largely uh influenced by AI too and just having everything at your fingertips. But it'd be nice in instead of making us our families work or you know kind of go through hundreds of pages of

119PDFs. There are some districts that post their LCAP goals in their in their boardroom just yeah remind um 26's uh board engaging the community in securing support and resources. >> I'll say we we've started that's one I would like we're starting to do a lot better on that. I really liked some of our discussions about the five-year budget plan for example on that. I think that's a great example of where we could do that. But I think there's kind of is a partnership in that way. Anybody else want to speak to that? >> Well, I mean, again, it's also a challenge of the two-way conversation like uh to secure a support, you have to have dialogue. And so, if we're all like nervous about misrepresenting the district or violating the Brown Act, even though no

120one's been charged apparently ever >> orused or even expected. >> Yeah. It's just this cloud that could be raised and you know freaks everyone out which I guess is maybe doing its job. But anyways, I think that's the challenge. >> I'll bring up a positive. I remember it was Mike Gibbs came in front of us and brought up why don't we have a foundation that supports the schools and we now have that as part of our fiveyear plan. So that's that is an example where a public comment >> filters its way through and it's not efficient always because of it. But that's exactly that that's what I mean that was the example to me that's like very circular and again of the discussion about parcel tax too that's come up like we're going to at

121least explore that and have a discussion >> because people brought it up and that's that's to me the >> and not just explore it because we're not doing it like again but we're putting it within the goal of the 5-year plan of the budget. So it's like again it's united towards the goal of what we want to achieve which is fiscal solveny but we are explo we are allowing for exploration you got from the public. So yeah, I agree. It would be nice if there was that opportunity for the two-way. >> I think 27 is related to the same thing. It's really securing committee support to what your are achieving your vision, mission, and goals, which you need to communicate clearly to public so they can get behind it. Yeah. Um 28 there was pretty

122much agreement that you're doing during that 29 the same. Uh 30 there was pretty much unonymity but 31 there was concern on 31. Prior to adopting policy the board requires input from the affected parties superintendent the staff the community. This goes to the area that we've addressed earlier. >> That was my zero and it relates back to the zero that was earlier with community engagement. So, >> okay. Have we covered that sufficiently? Okay. >> That horse is dead. >> Yeah, that's good. >> 32 board ensures each policy is written as clearly as possible so that it can support the superintendent in her reasonable interpretation. There was one that was not. >> Can we just blame Jen for that since she's not here? Just kidding. >> Love you, Jen. >> Okay. All right. Do you want

123to speak to it, Mike, or are you good? >> No. Again, it's my prejudice about >> Okay. >> policy language. >> 33. You're good. You're good with that. monitoring policies, effective implementation, compliance. 34. There was definitely concern. Majority of the board felt this was not adequately done. It's the ensures development of long range fiscal forecasts based on clearly identified assumptions and rationale. So, you gave yourself some pretty low marks on that one. >> But I think some of that's also tied to the the fact of a basic a district and the fact that we're doing, you know, layoff notices. We're doing those before we even have a budget and we're not getting our budget in a clear chunk. We get it as the tax receipts come in. So, it makes really hard I think it

124can be really difficult to have those appropriate fiscal forecasts. That said, I will also say I think we're starting again to do better cuz I think in the a lot of times it feels like we're we're doing everything we can and then the winds blow a little differently and the fiscal forecast is not as positive as it was last year. But again, I think the five-year planning is exactly the direction that at least I wanted to see us go. And I Well, see, I'm speaking on myself, not as a boy. >> Is there anything anybody wants to change in what you're doing to improve on 34? I mean, I would like I mean, we're we're starting on this, too, but like more ideas just in in terms of revenue because I I mean, I think

125the partial tax if it's or second homes or something is fine, but just banking on taxes is so um unhelpful for families. and everything. So, >> I I I would just want more imagination with with um ideas, I guess. Yeah. >> Well, maybe a better um format for people to deliver ideas as they come up, you know. Um because really you know, you we know we know the money we're going to get. I mean, we can look to our history and we know um and so if it's not enough money for what we want and then we have to look at, you know, how do we increase revenue? Um, you know, there's different ways to go about that, but we could always have a format for people that come up with a foundation or whatever

126to submit ideas, but I think it's hard to um I don't see that as something that we can depend on um as far as a five-year plan. I mean, it's just those are small increments. I mean that you know you're going out for taxes because those are bigger those those are more permanent they they last you know um >> yeah I mean um I feel less certain about kind of like just the upward trajectory of real estate and you know like the closing of Mberry here like we are so small and so like a few things closing could potentially affect our economy and thus the taxes. >> Mhm. >> That building up the reserve and just having more less dependency even if it's 5% help can just serve as a buffer in my opinion or

127>> I would agree. I mean my thing again without getting into word policy too much but or is we should have a goal of not having a tra might not be a very realistic goal but that should be our goal so that we're not borrowing we're basically just have a large enough reserve that we never need to do a tran that would be doing 34 in my opinion but again it's how we get there is the hard answer and it's not going to be easy decisions to get there because it's probably not all going to be revenue either but that's that's to me where the issue comes is and again it's part of it's the designation of a board right we get all five of us we I'd be all on the same page that

128let's get away with the trend and then two years later myself or in a few months myself and Laura get voted out and then these people are like no we need more you know whatever and then we go away from them I mean that's the reality it goes exactly you know >> unless they're writing in as norms and >> but that's why I'm saying like you know every board has to look at the the past that you know that district has been through and um you know our big change was becoming a basic district. So, uh before that we were very poor, very very poor. So, um you know, that's that's what we know, that's what we count on now. And um that's that's the the majority of our revenue. The rest is, you know,

129when we go out for bonds, you know, that's adjunct to helping us do other things. And but um yeah, so I I think I really like, you know, when we're doing a five-year plan, I like looking back to see what was working well and you know, and where we started to go off the rails a little. Um because I was just looking at my I I found my uh this from 201 19 was um maybe I didn't bring it up here with me but anyway just listed in 2015 you know what our reserve was 17%. How is it from 2015 to now that we're at 6% or whatever? >> Don't remember the lessons from the past. You're doomed to repeat it, right? >> Well, it just goes to show you like you you know, you

130have different boards that come in and and you know, and then we had a couple of different um superintendent of business. So then they have you know so but the board and the and the superintendent you know start to shape what happens and then of course co but uh but anyway just >> looking at that historical data is real you know and then you have to project from that. >> True. Um 35 is is um whether your annual budget expresses your district policies and your priority. There's somebody feels that they that it's sorely lacking in some major area of change. >> It just goes back the same way that we often inherit, right? We're inheriting a lot of it. It's not necessarily what this board might have voted on, if that makes sense. >> That

131can happen. Yeah. But I think basically that's that's always your budget is is your priorities. That's what you see in your budget. When you see when you see an emphasis on counseling, that was your priority. And and you made it and different boards made it work, whatever. But that's what they did. Whoever feels that this needs major improvement, what changes would you make? Or is it something? >> I don't think just joking. >> We don't know whether blame Jen. Yeah. >> So, >> okay. >> But again, I think it's okay. I'll give one last comment on this is or from my perspective is that there are often conflicts of priorities. for example, the kids and financial solveny. >> And so I think that's I could see I again don't think I was the one, but

132I could see that being a reason why someone would say that because we don't always meet both of those goals. We can't always meet both those goals. >> Okay. Uh, and lastly, the district financial report and audits provide board members with clear understanding of the district's financial health. And one person did not feel that was the case. Does anybody want to speak to that? No. Okay. All right. Well, we have a couple on the next two items marked kind of low. uh district has found proper balance among competing claims, fiscal responsibility, responsiveness, the community and meeting the needs of all students. The board maintains a reasonable financial reserve. It's pretty unanimous that you don't feel you maintain a reasonable >> there's only one who feels that you do. >> No, that was probably that was

133probably and 38 combined. They combine the two. Yeah, >> that's an optimist. I, you know, I just feel that it's not optimal maybe right now, but I mean it's not I don't I don't feel that we're in that dire a situation. But um and and if we have a goal of 10% reserve, I'm okay with a goal, but I don't want to make >> some kind of an adjustment that just just to get us to a 10% versus 9.5. >> Right. >> That's how I feel. >> I agree with that very much. >> I think for 37 um Elliott, it's what you were just talking about is we have I don't think we have found the balance um between fiscal responsibility and community responsiveness and meeting the needs of all of our students. I mean,

134what district has, I'm not sure if there's one we can look at and say like they've done it. So, I mean, it's such a tough balance. Um I don't know. >> Well, the key there is the word all students. Of course, we haven't met the needs of all students. I mean, I think that's >> we could do a better job of meeting >> better attempts, but I don't know if we could ever >> put in balance all of those things. That's pretty >> Well, I think I think just structurally because of government, the responsiveness is also just really hard and >> yeah, >> the budgets being approved a year in advance. I mean, >> all three of these are almost inachchievable. I mean, fiscal responsibility, yes, but again, we can't be fully responsive to community

135because of what we're talking about. We can't meet the needs of all students. So, I think that's it's just not I mean, it would be nice if we could, but that would be that's pretty >> uh reserve. There was pretty strong feeling that you don't have an adequate reserve. Again, something we all dealt with. We dealt with as a board. >> Well, we all agreed to put together policy on that. So, we're all in agreement on that. >> But now, I want to make it 25%. >> Personally, but again, I don't think we will. I I think that's the goal. >> I think it'll take us maybe 20 30 years to get there, but I would love to get to the point where we don't need a train anymore. I'll just I'll say that when

136we talk about that policy, not >> the the teachers union would love it if you did that. Okay. I like really maybe I'll call them up and we have a two-way conversation. >> That's gonna go reserve or a larger >> 25% reserve. Oh yeah, >> that means no. >> They'll be saying, "Okay, let's let's roll out the money. >> Let's roll out the money." >> Yeah. I mean, I I think those moonshot things are are good to kind of keep working toward, but like I think you've harped on this mostly about like the not funding things with one time monies. I think that's a I personally will speak for myself like I think that's a really smart policy because I could see what has happened, you know. Um, so yeah, I think it's small or

137smaller things than the 25 or the 20% but with that um directive. >> Remember um Prop 13 and and before Prop 13 h happened, local agencies had enormous reserves. They weren't spending the money that was accumulating. So the question that that often times public agencies have to balance is how much of reserve do we can't >> keep and how much do we spend for the benefit of our community. >> Totally. And to me it's just but it's about that it's about the trend to me right. It's like I think of it from like a stock investing p perspective like I could buy >> 100% on margin and really be like overextended and hopefully making more money. But it's again I feel that's the goal is not to hold the reserve so that we're not giving

138it out but it's to have the reserve that we're not needing to borrow against it so that we are prepared for any potential downturn or anything like that. And again that to me that's the goal and there's going to be realities that >> et unusual for um uh districts that are basic a to have a 20 or 25% reserve. In fact, I've got one that has a 37% reserve. >> Yeah. Oh, also like the goal, your stated goal of not needing a trans, the closer that we get to that, the smaller the trans. So, I mean, it's still a benefit. >> That's true. It's not black and white. >> Yeah. >> Um, we'll move to 39. And there's one who felt that there is a lack of trust or respect between the superintendent and the

139board. I have not seen that, but somebody feels that there is a problem here. So, I don't know if anybody wants to speak to that. >> Maybe that was a misclick. >> Oh, it could have been. >> Jen, Jen, >> Jen, I hope you know I'm saying this. >> She'll love it. She don't watch this. >> Maybe she's listening and all. We're making a >> nothing more soothing during a my >> and on the next page you're pretty much in agreement that you're on track for all of those. >> Great job. >> Uh which would take us to 45 and the last page and uh 45 is board members are current on legislation and regulations that affect public education. There was some feeling that is not the case. >> I think that might have been

140me, but that was like self-criticism. That's just because the the action week. Was it you? >> I don't know. But I mean, there's so much legislation that's >> uh going on. >> I've tried to follow the CSBA action weeks a little more and do that to be more informed, but it's also >> information. It's a lot of information >> and it's changing all the time. >> All the time. Yeah. Just when you think you're >> because the same as 46. >> Yeah. I think I might have been a zero because I um because just of my schedule can't accommodate a lot and so that's probably that was me. I think >> yeah it was actually but but it's okay. >> It wasn't me. >> No. >> Oh >> no. >> Well, it feels like me.

141All right. Maybe it was me because >> I just feel like I'm not I I could definitely do a better job of attending and it's because I >> Yeah. >> Um there is also feeling that the workshops conducted are are not sufficient for the board for board development. There's one person who felt would anybody want to speak to that at all? Some of them are required by law or like I mean like there's there's aspects like that. I don't I don't think I was a two but I just I could it it's a very black and white statements. So say board of war shops are mostly conducted then I give it a five probably but are all conducted you know it depends how you interpret that. >> Okay. >> Well well what are they referring

142to? >> Yeah. Are you talking about CSBA? Are you talking Is that what you're talking about? I wasn't ones offered by NC or CBA. Yeah. Right. I I interpreted that to mean this. >> Do you want more? >> This is our word >> or better. >> Yes. >> Better. >> Yeah. No, I want better. No, I'm just saying yes. >> More and better. >> I don't want more. >> Right. >> Cuz I can't. >> What does data look like? Maybe let's talk about that. Yeah. Like what was more like these to offer more of this good? >> Well, this is what I consider workshop. Also, one person brought up one of the things was getting training like some of the training on proficiency and stuff that the staff get the board members don't always get.

143So, I think that >> I don't know if that fits. >> Oh, I said that about the cultural proficiency. Yes. >> So, that would be one that I think could be again optional, not required. >> Okay. >> Definitely optional. >> But I think it's just having, you know, potentially having more opportunity. But then, no, I think these are really useful. Okay. But um that that is it. There were some comments and I don't want to attribute any comments to everybody but generally um there's some concern about the Brown Act which is an obstacle to developing relationships. That is something we all public agencies have to live with. So, I'm sorry, but but you got to do, right? Um, there's there was some expression of concern about board uh members who might leave the meeting early

144or not attend without letting the board know. So I don't know if that's something you want to discuss or concerned about or just that it it is protocol to notify the board president if you have to leave a meeting early and and so it happened one time that one of the board members had left and we didn't know. >> Okay. Is it it was it a one-off or is it a >> Yeah, it was a one-off. >> Are you okay with cutting some slack for the oneoff or is that something a protocol you want to discuss? >> Well, I think it's a good I think a good reminder. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I think we should feel okay about bringing it up and saying to someone the nicely like, "Hey." >> Yeah. >> Something just

145courtesy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um there's um a little concern uh that um well obviously there there was more than one expression of concern about the Brown Act being an obstacle to developing relationships and decision making etc. Uh there is some concern about um the potential or possibility of some board members putting ego before the board. Uh I don't know if that's an issue that we want to talk about. There was some expression of concern about one-on-one meetings with the with the superintendent. Sternly is that something we want >> like not having internet >> having too many. >> Oh, anything? >> No, I but I do think that that's something that in my past that is always um there's always a checking it out with other board members. like if one board member is meeting

146with a superintendent maybe more frequently than others. So there's always that like you know is oh well what are they talking about and am I missing out on something or how come I'm not so but I think Linda's been very good about you know doing the one-on ones and and publicizing it. you know, today I'm meeting with one-on-one with Mike, tomorrow one-on-one with Beth, you know, so I I like that. I mean, it um I never had a superintendent that did that before. So I but I do believe that that's a good thing to do because it's interest I've seen it happen before where there's some mild jealousies that come in that or feelings of left being left out, you know. So, I didn't write that, but >> that's what I know about it. >>

147I just think has, like we said earlier, has the potential to develop power imbalances and some of that's natural by the president's always going to have more information because they're setting agenda, etc. But I think it's just again a a goal for the board, a goal for the governance team to figure out how to help. But again, I think Beth's point, you're doing so much of that. The other one I'd add is you're putting things in the trustee questions or update if they come up. So if I were to bring up issue X, you make sure that is available for other trustees to read. >> Yeah, that's good. That's very helpful, I think, for the board to feel all on the same foot, you know, same equality. >> The other thing I would touch on

148here, and I mean it's I guess a little parallel is it goes back to the Brown Act one, too, is like I have made it a process. I will talk with and I think I've talked with almost everybody. I'm pretty sure I've talked with everybody on the board, but I will make sure like, you know, I talked with you, Beth, about an item today and I said, "Hey, you're the only one I want to talk to about this, just so you know, to make sure it's like very clear. This is not Brown Act, but >> it's something we both expressed an interest in in the past." So, >> um, so I think that's something I would encou on on specific agenda items would encourage us all to do is just reach out to those oneonone

149and say, "Hey, are you talking to anyone about this or I'm only going to talk to you about this, I should say." And I know it risks a foul, but it's also that development of personal relationships because I think it is, you know, things that are important to know where people who they are as a person, not just who they are behind the dis. Yeah, I think that's important too for because we have such limited amount of being able to talk with one another that if we, you know, if we do know that another board member is interested in the same thing that, you know, we maybe have that discussion with that one board member, but but also like what Ellie and I were talking about is like, okay, we want to bring this to

150the board. So it's not like we want to there's something we want to talk about and just keep it between us. It was just >> bouncing off idea >> some ideas and then at the appropriate time bringing it to everybody like so it would never you know and I think that's important too cuz yeah >> may not have the right answer and it's useful. Yeah. >> Well you don't want to give impressions that you know two people are on the side you know >> it's never about a vote. It's not about that. It's just more about getting thoughts about someone who's has might have experience or opinions that you don't I think um this is not really related I guess but uh >> uh I mean I think as a district uh you know working

151on relationships with media more proactively would maybe be helpful but also So, uh, people who may not show up to meetings specifically, but are in that field, like if you know an architect or something, it'd be like, "Hey, you know, we're we're under we're we're going to have this big renovation of such and such. Can can I just pick your brain about some ideas or thoughts of you know what you've seen before to kind of build more um support in the community kind of with the subject matter experts sometimes. I mean again this always is like you have a cajillion things to do but uh ideally it'd be nice to reach out to people who know uh about marine sciences about you know we're thinking about this curriculum change or whatever you know to to

152not just wait for people to come to our meetings or show an interest but to go out >> yeah that's okay that's good >> as long for this or make sure you support this but >> you've done that and then you and then you gave us information that you had gathered and then that's up >> well but I no I haven't I haven't talked to >> you know uh I can't even think of an instance but but I mean let's say we're were >> if there was a playground expert that I knew in the district a parent or something >> it'd be nice if like someone either a board member or someone from the district reached out and was like, "You're not really hired, but you know, can we just talk about this?" Have you

153know, to get their ideas cuz maybe then they could spread the word to other families. And that >> and one way I've done that a lot is site councils is I've had people who have like an experience on something. I be like, "Hey, there's this is something that's the site is thinking about. Have you thought about joining the Worst Grow site council to discuss?" Another thing that I think needs uh more layman's language. The site council feels like a like a >> bearing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Having gone through this self-evaluation process, is there maybe we can go around the table. Are there things that you want to put on the table of changing of how you operated in order to make yourself a better board? Maybe we just go around the table and

154this isn't the end of that discussion. This is just the beginning of that discussion. So maybe Beth, is there anything that comes to your mind that >> Yes. Yes, there is. >> Okay. Well, my only thing is because I got a flood of emails criticizing me for something I said at a board meeting. Um, at first I got a couple of emails like the Friday after the board meeting and then on the Monday I was getting more and more Tuesday more and more. Now these emails aren't just going to me, they're going to everybody. I mean the rest of the board and superintendent. And you know after a while I thought like oh it started to feel weird that I didn't get any feedback from my fellow board members and I wanted to and I'm

155not sure if they felt like that was a Brown violation. I don't know. But I would like to even if maybe they didn't agree with what I said because I was getting this. I mean, I have never all the years I've been on the board in the past, I've never gotten emails like this. And kind of speaking to what you said, Lou, before about um the culture of the time, you know, like people were like extrapolating meanings to what I said that was like I mean they were like page long emails like what? Anyway, so I mean and because of that because it was so I felt like it was so out there um and >> Huh. >> You mean public out there? >> No. No. I mean, >> speak. >> I I because I

156feel like it was such an odd >> and extreme response and and that I mean, you know, I was getting a a list of people that signed it, you know, like um and so I wanted to hear more from you guys. >> Yeah. I I'll speak for myself. I mean that's like a it's I it was brown act fear. I mean I you know and sort of an awkward situation but mostly Brown act like >> well Lou what could you say in that situation? >> Um the board couldn't comment outside of a board meeting to you on it or it would be >> so Mike couldn't text me and say sorry that you're here you're getting all these emails. >> Oh you could do that. That's all I wanted. Not I don't need a comment

157on >> the content. Yeah. >> Just an acknowledgement that like, oh man, sorry. >> You're having Yeah, that would not be a Brown violation. >> Okay. >> For Mike to say, I disagree with these comments and here's my opinion. That would be a brown viol. But for Mike to say, I'm I'm sorry that you're getting this kind of messages. >> Yeah, >> that's fine. >> Okay. Well, I'm sorry how this might make you feel or Yeah, >> this is going to be too little too late, but that's okay. Um, so I wanted to text you. I thought about texting you and then I thought I sound so bad saying out loud, but I thought, you know, I didn't know how, not that how you would receive it, but you strike me as such a um

158>> strong. Yeah. Yeah. You're like hardcore. Like you like I would I my I thought I I thought like I mean I would be like >> I would be upset about it and I thinking about you I and I know I'm a very sensitive person though. Yeah. >> And I'm not saying that you're not a sensitive person but what I'm saying is that >> um >> I could handle it. you can hand I thought you probably just like this like >> no and and I was that way until like Monday and Tuesday and then I was like >> okay this >> in my mind's eye >> go crazy >> my in my mind's eye your response was like whatever you know what I said my piece and you guys can pick whatever you want and

159in in my mind I was thinking you know I I wanted to text you, but I thought maybe you would think that I was being like some my typical soft self that's like, "Let me >> Oh, and then I would scoff at you." Oh, Lord. >> But I mean I mean just No, not like that. But I just didn't know that you needed it. >> Oh, okay. That's good. That I mean >> I just wanted to bring it up because you're right. I definitely would that wouldn't and it didn't bother me until like until Monday and Tuesday and it was like what you know so it felt so off the charts you know and that's the only time I mean otherwise you're you're totally right I wouldn't >> no matter how tough we might look

160on the outside we all have feelings >> I mean she did say that she wanted to tussle in the meetings or whatever you know Exactly. >> Sorry you experienced that. >> Anyway, >> yeah, I think I I might have I mean on that practice I think I might have emailed you, Linda. I think again for the Brown Act part just to say like a little bit of my piece and I can admit here like if you notice I'm no longer trusty Dr. Mr. Ex-President the Fourth Hazen. I just want to be Dr. Hazen or Trusty Hazen, >> right? either one for that reason because again I think part of what I heard is that again people felt very strongly about that right and that was a feeling that the public had whether it was what

161you the way you intended it or not and I fully believe you did not intend it that way >> but the fact that that that feeling was out there I thought was important for us all to hear so thank you for taking the brunt of it for all of us so that I could also correct that myself but that was again the Brown Act part was definitely part of my concern you know I think I mentioned something to you, but I think it's worth passing just of like, >> you know, hey, you okay? But not not specific at all because of >> Yeah. >> Well, and I think just I'm bringing it up because I think in the future that all of us should feel, you know, like we could be that kind of supportive

162where we're not violating Brown Act, but we're just letting them the other person know like, hey, got your back, you know? >> Hey, human. human other humans that have feelings right person to person as a human being. >> The brown does not prevent human kindness reached that far yet. >> So for nice we can talk about kidding joke. >> Elliot, anything that you want to bring up that changes of how the board you operate as a board member and the board operates? No, I mean honestly again I think we have our moments of perfection and our moments of mistakes. And again I think I'll say about our board and our governance team more broadly. We do try to learn from those mistakes and get better. And so that's that's all I would ask is just

163that that's that's all of it. We are all human. So if we all each of us does mess up, please don't you know if I do call your opinions useless and invalid as I look at you Laura, please don't maybe I had a >> maybe I hadn't had dinner tonight, right? And so there might be a reason behind that. So it's just again we all are going to make those mistakes and yeah and I think reminding each other as Beth said did that we're all human. It's the right path forward. >> Laura any any changes that you would like to see on the board? Um, you know, I think for me, I I'll speak personally is that there have been times that I have been talking or sharing um my thoughts about something. Um, and

164what is disheartening or has been disheartening on occasion is eye rolling or scowling or and it's sort of like um, you know, it's difficult to receive in the moment. Um, but it's also something that's not necessary. There is a time and place for all of that. and it if it needs to be at a break in the bathroom where you know somebody gets all their sighing out or their eye rolling out or they're scowlling out at that moment. Um, but when another human being is talking or another trustee is talking or if there's somebody up at the podium that's talking, it doesn't take a lot of effort, even if you completely disagree, to keep your face either slightly smiling or flat or whatever, but visibly and audibly showing somebody that in the moment you disagree

165is just um for me feels a little bit out of balance because it's so easy to control. So, if there's one thing that I could say, it's respect for other board members as they're speaking and respect for community members as they're speaking as well because um it takes a lot to voice ideas and concerns and opinions. Um and no matter what role you're in on the board, um no no role is more important than any other. We are all equal members of the board and so I think there should be equal respect amongst all of us. So um if I could change one thing it would just it would be that >> maintaining respect. >> Thank you for that because that that is >> that is critically important because you guys setting up there set

166the standard of conduct for your schools for your community of what's acceptable and what isn't acceptable. showing that respect to each other as well as the community as well as the staff is is really important. So, thanks Mike. anything you would like there? >> Um, I think I think as a board the the kind of some of the peruncter or proforma replies like you were saying to be actually more human about things when when people are coming to the podium and feeling impassioned and stuff. Um, I think that's again I think it it comes out of a place of not wanting to show favoritism and I know that was like a focus in your presidency too of like trying to be above board but it's uh you know I also want to respect the community

167in that way. Uh, and this is a lifelong challenge, but being organized beforehand and having thoughts in bullet points or written out is a, you know, forever challenge. I'd like to go on less tangents. Uh, and for more impassion votes, I'd like to get better at like the justification or reasoning behind the vote beyond Well, yeah, I guess I'd like to kind of state the place state the case clearly. just for the record, I guess. Um, as opposed to leaving doubt or confusion um, in the public's mind. Um, I mean, I don't know if that would really solve anything, but I guess just to have it on the record in a clear format would be good. Um, so >> I don't think it'll happen though. You know, jumbled brain up in here. No, I think

168uh you articulated it well and and the next step is just doing it. So, >> true, true. >> The hardest part. >> Well, that's the hard part. The hard part, >> but you can remind yourself when you're up there. >> Yeah. >> That this is what you need to do. >> Um, one of the things I think that might have been really good tonight is just an open frank discussion among yourselves about this. And we don't have to you don't have to fill out a self-evaluation form if periodically you want to have a meeting like this to discuss your functioning as a board. It's going to be noticed like that you know we did but you can have this kind of meeting just to clear the air and have dialogue. So whenever you're feeling a

169need, talk to the superintendent or board president and say, you know, I think we need to have a check-in among the board how we're doing and and have this kind of discussion. I think it's very productive in building the relationships that the Brown Act kind of prevents puts up obstacles. >> I was just going to quickly send that. I mean, one thing I know we brought up before, I I do think for this I would be really interested in getting it public and stuff and that to me is something I know we brought up before, but and I know we probably drown them with surveys in some ways, but I do think it's important other than just at the voting booth to figure out what are what does the public feel we're doing well and

170not on and again there'll be some probably difficult answers I look at, you know, based on, but I think I think that's more important than our self-reflection on this. >> Yeah. Um yeah. >> How many voters do you have in the district that voted in the last election? >> 11,000 12,000 voted, right? Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's a lot of people >> 1500 15,000 community members, right? So that's, you know, Yeah. It's >> But even just staff, you know, >> Yeah. >> finding out how staff feels. I mean, and if that's be an email survey, something like that, and it's participate if you want or not. I don't know. I mean, it might be a can of worms, but at least we would know how we're viewed. >> Yeah. >> And if it's like three

171questions as opposed to 48 or whatever, you know. >> Yeah. No, it's a good point. >> Could be how much do you love the board? 100% created. >> All right. Well, I hope it was a productive and useful spend of a few hours tonight. Um, we have like 25 27 minutes until 10 and we don't have to stay until 10, but we also were going to potentially talk about the foundation. We could put it off to another meeting or if you have questions about the foundation, we could deal with it. So, what it's your meeting? What would you like to do? >> I'd go other meeting. >> I would I mean I feel honestly I'm blaming Jen again, but it would be good to have all five of us here for that. That would be

172really useful to do, but I would like to have that. >> You all got So Lou had sent some great information. I'll I'll include it again and that's the update. Yeah, just to, you know, review that and maybe in the time if there are any questions from any of you, maybe kind of pull those together and I can gather them from you and get them to Lou in preparation for our next session. Yeah. And then I would like to say too that if um >> I really like the idea of us I know that we have a lot of meetings but um I do like the idea of us taking time to do this even if we're not having active issues or there's not like intention or thing because it really is nice to be

173able to sit here and have discussions about even if the world the world's not watching but you know even if it has to be recorded and agendaized and all of that but I just think it's it's important just for the connection piece because we're all human beings and we all need to you know I know I do >> bent and also feel like be able to look at each other in the eyes and have a like a conversation that isn't yay or nay you know and or completely scripted based off of what's on the agenda. So >> Lewis will see her tomorrow. >> All right. >> Thank you, Lewis. >> All right. That kind of >> Oh, yes. Yeah. You know, do you want me to bring it there? You can do it from where

174you're sitting. >> Meeting adjourned. >> Yeah. >> Can just clap. >> Yeah. >> Ajourned. Oh, thank you all. 9:25. >> Good job.