001The Emmy Board of Education special meeting for April 27th, 2026 is called to order at 6:37. Emergency exits are located on both sides of the back of the room. Please silence your cell phones. My members, staff, and guests to respect the business nature of our meeting. Comments may be made only when recognized and applause is appropriate only in recognition of an individual or group honor special presentation. >> Thank you for your cooperation. Please stand for the pledge. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay. Uh we're going to move right into uh number three, approval of minutes. We have two meetings. Uh first of all, may I have a
002motion for the board of education public hearing April 6, 2026. Motion to approve autumn and second Michael. Any corrections, changes? If not, can we call the role, please? >> Miss Bradley, >> same. >> Miss Cloud Ingram, >> yes. >> Miss Jay, >> yes. >> Dr. Kunron, >> yes. >> Miss Lombardi, same. Miss M. Rebuse. >> Yes. >> Mr. Reed, >> yes. >> Mr. Davis, >> yes. >> Mr. Mcdana, >> yes. >> Dr. N. >> Uh, Miss Schlank. >> Oh, sorry. >> Delay. >> Who did I Oh. Oh, I was thinking from policy. I'm sorry. Dr. Ol. >> Yes. >> Sorry. Um, Miss Schustster. >> Yes. >> And Mr. Young. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Motion carries. >> Chairman Davies. A motion to amend the agenda for this evening to include discussion on 5145.53. Is there
003a second? >> Second. >> Uh this is a special meeting. >> This is a special meeting. As far as I know, the agenda cannot be amended. >> That's correct. >> I may by uh majority vote of the board. It can >> not not at a special meeting. Only a regular meeting >> under foyer. >> Okay. Okay. Special meetings limited to the agenda >> and that's specifically stated in our bylaws. I believe >> the advice of council who wasn't consulted as president and certainly referential to the position you hold uh follow your uh advice to the statute when I get a minute. Uh the chair rules that the motion is out of order and not in keeping with uh our rules for special meeting stuff. >> Okay, we move on to B. Board of Education regular
004meeting minutes April 6, 2026 motion to uh approve the minutes of the regular meeting. >> We have a question. >> Oh no. I'm Oh, sorry. Michael >> second there. >> Any corrections, changes? >> Not please call the role. >> I just wanted to confirm was Autumn the first and Michael McDonald was the second. >> Good work. >> Thanks. Okay. Miss Bradley >> abstain. >> Miss Cloud Ingram. >> Yes. >> Miss Shake. >> Yes. >> Dr. Kunicron. >> Yes. >> Miss Lombardi. >> Steen. >> Miss Revuse. >> Yes. >> Mr. Reed. >> Yes. >> Mr. Davis. Yes, >> Mr. Mcdana. >> Yes, >> Dr. Ola Delay. >> Yes, >> Miss Schustster. >> Secret. >> I'm sorry, Mr. >> I'm sorry. Yes. >> Okay, no problem, >> Mr. Young. >> Yes. >> Motion carries. >> All right,
005motion carries. Go to our student report. Both of you are here today, so I guess you both get to uh give us some information hopefully. >> Jan. >> Um, so hello. Good evening everybody. Um so I'm pleased to share about several highlights from student life at AMD. Um the first was last week we had our portrait of the graduate presentations for our juniors. Um so more than 300 juniors presented on their growth in the five characteristics which you may remember um were collaboration, communication, empathy, and problem solving. Um and so faculty and staff from all three schools in the district um formed panels and were audiences for our students and gave them feedback after their presentations. So we're really grateful to our faculty and staff support. Um in addition, we had a lot of success
006recently in um the science department. So we had the University of Bridgeport Rise Science Fair where we had two students um win recognition. uh a junior Zen Jang won um an honorable mention and senior Casey Tam won third place overall. Um and we also had another student who's in the science research program um win a semi-finalist for the Samsung Solve for tomorrow competition and her work for uh on wireless charging systems for pacemakers has secured $10,000 in educational technology for our school district. Um in addition in our world language department we were able to induct 76 new members into the world languages honor societies. So these are students who um demonstrate a remarkable academic achievement throughout their time at AMD um taking very high level um world language courses. Um and then on the practical
007life skills area um students have also been learning financial literacy through a reality fair hosted by the financial literacy teachers. Um so in this event 370 students about um engaged in realistic budgeting and financial planning scenarios um alongside community volunteers. Um in addition in honor of Earth Day um students and faculty members from the farm-to-table club collected over 70 pounds of garbage um during an Earth Day campus cleanup um on our school um at our school. Um, and then finally, we want to um point out the uh achievements of the AMD Creative Theater. Um, I don't know if any of you were able to catch um their most recent production, which was My Fair Lady. Um, and that production actually earned eight Steven Sonheim Award nominations. So, this is a theater um award program that
008looks at musical productions across the state of Connecticut. Um, and this is actually our 17th consecutive nomination for best musical. um which is an outstanding achievement. We also um won individual recognitions for lighting, sound, acting and direction. So this just shows um along with our student orchestra and ensemble and this just shows the professional grade talent that we have um within our arts department here at AMD. Um looking ahead, we will continue to have a busy week um with the orchestra and the triam music honor society both holding concerts in this upcoming week. So if you're able to catch it, highly recommend. Um and I will turn it over to Shre to get the middle school report. Um, good evening. Uh, April has been an exceptionally productive period for both our Bethany and Orange middle
009schools. Um, looking at just the sheer volume of their calendar, it's clear that students and staff have maintained a high level of momentum. So, April featured several significant seventh grade field trips. Um, AMSO visited the Bridgeport Islanders hockey game on April 1st, followed by AMSB on April 2nd. And these trips provided a valuable opportunity for community building outside of the classroom. On April 7th and April 9th, AMSB 7th grade teams visited the Discovery Museum in Planetarium. Um when combined with the Yukon STEM workshops for young women held earlier this month, um it's clear that the schools are focusing on moving science more out of the textbook and providing students with hands-on real world applications of the curriculum. Um, in terms of community service and spirit, on April 8th, the combined AMSB and AMSO unified sports
010teams participated in Community Mobile Penguin Plunge to support Special Olympics Connecticut. Um, just seeing middle school students collaborate with high school mentors to raise funds for over 14,000 athletes is a powerful example of the character building that's happening in our district. Um, additionally on April 10th, AMSO hosted the Holly Rock Game Show, which was a high energy student assembly that allowed students to practice teamwork through interactive academic and physical challenges. Um, so there's also been a transition and reflection period for eighth graders. So following the spring break, which ran from April 13th to April 17th, um, our eighth graders began their final rights of passage. So on April 23rd, both buildings held their portrait of the graduate reflection day where students spent um an extended advisory period using Schooly to document their growth um in
011the district's um PG components. Um and while the eighth graders have been taking their panoramic photos this month, they also engaged in significant off-campus learning. So this month, the eighth grade class from both schools got to travel to Boston for duckboat tours and a visit to Fenway Park. And on that same day, while the students were in Boston, the AMSO and AMSB faculty were at the high school watching the junior Pog reflections um juniors in high school. And this vertical alignment ensured that our middle school's te our middle school teachers could see exactly where their students are headed. um which allowed them to better prepare the eighth graders for their transition to high school. As we look forward to the global studies fair on May 1st for ASB and May 7th for NSO and the
012uh various spring concerts, the academic and social momentum in both buildings is really clear. So, thank you so much for your continued support for these programs and we're available for any questions if you have them. >> Thank you. Any board members have any questions or comments or >> I have a question. Is it when does momentum start to wayne a little? I know like as we get closer to the end of the school year, I'm just impressed that like there's still so much going on and people are still excited. >> It it doesn't I don't know. >> Oh, it doesn't really. >> It just keeps on going right up to exams. So, our seniors have what, seven days left with their teachers before they hit UELPs. >> Really? >> You said seven? >> Yeah, seven.
013>> Um, and that's actually a fun exciting time. >> Oh, yeah. >> Just want to mention the awards for the show. Uh, I I spoke to the director and he informed me that competition may be a little greater this year. Uh, more than twice as many schools have sub been nominated. So uh I think he he mentioned something like uh 40 42 schools are are possibly in the competition there. So it's big increase and for those of you who are not aware uh it's an AMD grad who really is very much involved in developing this awards program for the state. So it's a nice uh pat on the back also for the uh AMD school district. Okay. uh superintendent's report. >> Um it is enclosed in the board's packet and in um option of saving
014the board time with your attorney. I'm just going to ask that you read it at some point. >> Uh chairman's report. Uh uh one major item that I want to uh bring to your attention that uh the school district uh kind of received a nice honor in having our superintendent uh elected as chair for the uh South Central area school administrators uh for this year which I I believe also puts you on the executive uh board of statewide organizations. So we appreciate that and uh it's kind of a tribute to your contribution to education not only here but around the state. So >> congratulations. Yeah. >> Congratulations. >> Uh also uh point to bring up there as most of you are aware of there's been a lot of emails uh going around over the past
015few weeks and particularly this weekend and uh I think Dr. I suggested that we be careful about those. I want to remind all the board members to uh not send a response to everyone for everything because that could turn into a meeting uh situation >> apply to all. >> Okay. So that's that's one area. And uh I I don't mean to pick on you, Christian, but u talk about 5145. Are we? >> No. No, we're not. But I I do want to thank you for your unintentional compliment. Uh I sent an email out in response to yours and you replied that I must have consulted with the attorney and so on. I I didn't. It was all mine. All mine. So I I appreciate I worked very hard on that. I I do appreciate the
016compliment. Although I have to say when you sit in the state legislator legislature for 10 years, you you've got to absorb an awful lot of that statutory language and understanding. So rubs off. >> I cheated maybe in that area. >> All right. So uh next uh board roles and responsibilities workshop uh uh early in April. Uh I met uh with our attorney uh and uh we went over some of the concerns of board. I sat down with him. I think it was early in April and uh we discussed that uh so we had a little bit of a basis for what we'd like to talk about. I did at the last meeting also request that if anybody had specific questions in advance to send them to myself or the superintendent. I didn't get any. >>
017I did send a lengthy email that was directed to you about the meeting with the attorney and then you told me that the item could not be added to the agenda. >> Oh, that was an R right. Okay. But uh were were there specific questions that you'll be able to bring up tonight? >> Mhm. >> Okay. That's that's fine. So uh I'd like to turn this over uh to you and uh just for future reference um Connecticut General Statute 1-225 small E and PNS part of the Freedom of Information Act. It talks about notice of meetings. It first starts talking about regular meetings um and then it goes on to talk about special meetings and it says such notice shall not be given less than 24 hours prior to the time of the special meeting
018and talks about an emergency meeting which um seldom apply. And then it goes on to say um just give me a second to find a language. Um such notice shall specify the time and place of the special meeting and the business to be transacted and then importantly no other business shall be considered at such meeting by the agency and there's lots of foyer cases. It's pretty clear but lots of foyer cases. >> This is a foyer. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can't add to the special meeting. So I just wanted to >> you were going to show me a minute ago but we were in the middle of the presentation. That's why I appreciate you. No. Hey >> say the court man. >> I hold you to it and I appreciate it. Thanks. >> That's that's
019exactly why we have him here tonight. And uh uh he's done a good job for us for several years. But I I also want to mention we do have other attorneys working for the school district who have expertise in other areas. And the board in many cases uh will have to uh appoint those individuals also if there's a special case that comes up. So that's something you might have to look to the future and maybe on the agenda of our special meeting if we do have to bring in other attorneys. Okay. So, um I'm going to hand out some mu materials. Excuse me. Um and uh for those of you who have been this do this before, I apologize. I'm going to try to truncate it. Um for anybody who did not participate in the
020last presentation down >> I did. and there's anything specific that I don't cover, feel free to first of all read the materials, but if you have any questions, um, reach out to me and I'll be happy to >> to answer any questions. >> Just a quick question. Aren't we all required to go through the rules and responsibility compliance training before join the board? So, hasn't everybody >> I I don't know the answer. I know Cape does some training and so I don't know who has and has not gone through the training. >> I can probably answer that. I said yes to your question and uh like like all things we deal with a lot of people sit there and go through the motions uh and others take it a little bit more seriously. If you
021read this whole thing that's great but a lot of times people just look at it and don't really look at it if you know what I mean. So it's it's the expectation that anyone serving on this board would have looked at that information and uh while we we we don't excuse people not knowing the information we understand that it's impossible to absorb all this particularly in one session. So you know maybe the future is uh maybe we need to have uh little workshops on the whole whole situation from year to year and maybe something to consider. of mandated retraining for new board members only became a statute maybe two years ago. So it is entirely possible and we always did it as a matter of practice because it's good practice, but it is entirely possible
022that there are boards of education where board members were not trained because they didn't have to be until recently. >> Well, and like you and I went to a whole day, but not everybody does. >> No, but I mean >> people just had like an hour. >> We went to the whole day and then Christian and I also went to a meeting where we went through this exact packet. So I was just >> So you're familiar with it, right? Was it a year ago? >> Or was it >> not even like in November or December? Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right after the last election probably. >> Oh, okay. >> All right. So in any event, for that reason, I'm not going to go through everything here. I I want to hit the big issues to
023see if I can help guide you with some of the questions that have uh uh come up. So, um let me start by saying um like any state or municipal or um any any agency in the state of Connecticut, federal government for that matter, you you folks only have such power and authority as is delegated to you by statute through the state of Connecticut. Um so that's the first uh um what I what I do typically in this presentation and by the way I've been given giving this presentation um for a number of years. So the information I'm giving you is not something I developed for this current situation. It's the information that uh I've been utilizing. Um it's it's I've been told it's very close to if not uh parallel to what CAB advises
024people. I've also over the last almost 40 years attended National School Board Council of School Attorney meetings with the same sort of information. Even though they have different statutes, they're very similar. And so this is um in my opinion fairly consistent throughout the state uh if not the nation. But turning specifically to Connecticut, it all starts with um the state constitution, believe it or not, article 8, section one. And that provision guarantees a free public education to the children of this state. Um and then as you'll see in a moment, what's happened is the state um as the state likes to do sometimes, pardon me, um it's delegated its responsibility down to you folks and to other regional boards of education and local boards of education. So state constitution says we're going to give everything
025in the state a free education and then they delegate that to you to take care of for the most part. Um there are several statutes which I think are really the the fountain head of your authority and what you do and not just you but the the um school district and the superintendent and I'm just going to touch upon those very briefly and then I want to talk about what does it say and what doesn't it say. Okay. So um the first and most important is Connecticut General Statutes 10- uh 220 and this is really the primary uh vehicle by which the the general assembly has delegated to you responsibility for educating the kids in the um in the school district. And I I could go through the whole thing, but I'm just going to
026highlight some of the key provisions here. Um it says each local or regional board of education shall maintain good public elementary and secondary schools comma implement the educational interests of the state. Um and then it goes on from there and then it says you shall specifically provide an appropriate learning environment for students which includes I can say including but not limited to but the lawyers can talk about that um adequate instructional books, supplies, material, equipment, staffing, facilities and technology. Um it goes on to say an equitable allocation of resources among its schools, proper maintenance of the facilities, a safe school setting. Um goes on to talk about child abuse reporting. Um shall have charge of the schools uh in its u respective district. um shall designate the schools which shall be attended by the various
027children within the school district. Um shall make such provisions as will enable each uh child of school age residing in the district to attend some public day school and provide for transportation. Um shall cause uh each child five years of age and under 18 high school graduate to attend school. Um in sub paragraph B, it talks about prepare statement of educational goals for the local or regional school district. Goes on C to talk about strategic school profile and and and what you um what you have to provide. Um it goes into air quality testing. Um I'm jumping ahead to sub paragraph E. Each region >> What page are you on? >> I'm sorry. I'm not in my materials. It's not in the material. >> I didn't know that. Okay. >> No, I'm I'm skimming 10-220,
028which is referred to in the materials, but I'm just trying to give you some of the specifics that are in 10. >> Okay, that wasn't clarified, so I was looking for it. >> Okay, sorry about that. Uh, each local and regional board of education shall establish a school district curriculum committee. The committee shall recommend development, review, and improve approve, excuse me, all curriculum for the school district. Um, and what what I did is I went through it and tried ident identifying anything that was fairly specific in terms of what the delegation and the responsibilities are there. Um, and I'll certainly acknowledge that the very opening phrase, uh, shall maintain gay public and elementary and secondary schools and implement the educational interests of the state is broad enough you can drive a proverbial dump truck through
029it. Okay. So, um, and I haven't there's nothing in there to the best of my knowledge or recollection that I think is relevant to the issues and the concerns here. I just tried highlighting some of the specific um statutory um um responsibilities that are de delegated to you under 10-220. >> Um before you go on, I do have a question that opening statement. >> Yeah. uh about uh the state what uh uh maintain good public and elementary and secondary schools and implement the educational interests of the state. So I I I have always read that to mean that this board is responsible primarily to the state or fulfilling the statutes of the state and we've had that issue here on a number of years where there's a particular statute and somebody said well why don't
030you just ignore it. Uh but so when we are elected, we become agents of the state and >> absolutely. >> All right. >> You are an there's case law saying you are an agent of the state in terms of carrying out the responsibility. >> So if someone in our town says why don't you do this and said well it's against the state law. I said but you you work for us. You've been elected by us. That's >> yeah, it's kind of a dual thing where you have responsibilities based upon, you know, your your charter and and um um you know, local local laws that you have to comply with. It's a little different here. I was thinking of the analogy of if a town has a um procurement statute, you're required by law to follow
031that. um little different here because you have much broader authority than um a re a local school district would have but absolutely you're you're responsible for implementing the educational interests of the state whatever that means. >> What happens when state and federal law are in conflict? >> Um that is a very complex question. Uh one that probably takes two or three weeks in law school to try to explain to firstear law students. And I'm, you know, that was 40 years ago for me, so I'm not sure if I even recall. Uh, but it it it truly it's a very complex um question. The general rule of thumb is federal law, uh, supersedes state law, but there's a ton of exceptions to that. Uh, so it's a complicated question. >> So each issue or situation has
032to be looked at in it for its own merit rather than just the fact that federal law trumps state law. >> Right? But it comes down to it's a subject known as preeemption. And it comes down to whether the federal government intended to preempt that area and you know the states can't touch it, local governments can't touch it as opposed to whether it was more permissive and in addition to what they so the best example I can give you is wage and hour laws. federal government passes the Fair Labor Standards Act, but there's nothing saying a state can't require a higher minimum wage uh or be more restrictive in terms of when overtime has to be paid. So, that's an example of when the federal government says, "Yeah, you got to follow our laws, but
033you can also have more restrictive laws." >> Thank you. >> Sorry, I'm >> You have a follow-up question on that issue? Well, I have a followup. I have a question for um just to get a clarification on a statement you made before we went down path, which was um I believe you said that you know you're here. So, what what is the understanding of the of your understanding of the issues the board is questioning that you're talking about for state statute uh 10-220? >> Well, the way it was explained to me was there was a specific issue around starting times. I think school schedules and I understood there was some broader it led into sort of broader conversation about where is the the authority of the board start and begin and the authority of the
034superintendent start and begin. >> I think it goes much deeper than just basic start times. >> Oh I I I have no doubt. >> Okay. >> I mean that's the impression I had but >> Okay. So I >> Well, no. I'm just maybe be I mean before you can answer a question I think you need to know that >> I'm not sure I was given a specific question. >> Okay. >> As much as I was asked >> understand you know try to describe the roles and responsibilities to see if within that framework it helps you folks to decide. May I ask a question that maybe >> Sure. >> Uh because I understand where you're coming from and is it fair to say that the board has the authority in areas that are not specifically stated
035in statute to determine how they want to uh develop that issue or uh set up that particular policy. uh which is uh maybe what we want to look at is uh policies that specifically cover areas that the board has in question so that we can determine for future issues how we should uh who who has the authority to do it. I do not well that that's the question. We we uh according to my understanding, if if the statute doesn't specifically say you need to vote on a particular item, then it's up to the board to determine which items we want to vote on. >> I think as a general statement that is true. >> All right. So because I know there are so few statutes that require a vote by the board and statute I
036know I the only one that really comes to mind for me is in hiring the superintendent that absolutely requires a vote of the board and it says that in the statute >> approval of collective bargaining agreements is another example very specific >> um and you know we I read the provision about curriculum and how that's developed that's very specific and there there are other things um but you Now, here I mean I guess sort of cut to the chase. The the issue is there's two schools of thought. One school of thought is you're given very specific statutory powers and authority. Um and if the statutes haven't given that to you, then you don't have it. And on the and at the same time, the superintendent is vested with the day-to-day operation of the schools, right?
037Um what does that mean? There's no case law really. um uh describing what that means. So the question is what does that mean? Um the other um way of looking at it which is the way you've described it is to say there's nothing saying we can't um develop a policy on XYZ. And I'll give you an example. Uh Bridgeport Board of Education has two policies that come to mind. one of which says um the board must review and approve any contract over $25,000. Now, in a lot of school districts, uh people would say, well, review of contracts and approval is the superintendent's perview barring any restrictions. Now, that's not spelled out in the statutes, but Bridgeport said we want to have a very concrete rule when it comes to that, and they've adopted that rule.
038and they have other rules about hiring that go beyond what the statute uh specifically does. So, to my knowledge, nobody has ever said to Bridgeport or any other school district, you're limited to the exact words that are in 10-220. Um, and you know, for the most part, yes, there are issues that come up in districts over time. They get worked out. Fortunately, we don't have a lot of situations where the board is suing itself to get a declaratory judgment on on the interpretation of a statute. Sometimes you see that between towns and boards of ed. Um but um yeah, I would I would certainly agree that unless it's it's a specific u responsibility. I'll give you an example. Um, under 10-151, the superintendent and only the superintendent initiates a termination proceeding for a certified staff
039member. The board could not do that because the statute is very very specific on that particular issue. Board plays a very specific role in that process, but it's the superintendent um who initiates that process. So absent something specific like that, um I'm not aware of any restriction or limitation. If this board says here's here's a policy of you know things that we want to put in place and how things should be done. Um even if it gets down into forgive the use of the term micromanaging to some degree I think you have that prerogative. Is that the best thing for this district and generally in schools? I'll leave that to others to decide. Um but um yeah, I mean I generally agree that's that's your prerogative. >> Okay, before we go on any further u
040and if the board doesn't mind uh I'll keep my mouth shut. You came here to present to us and maybe we should let him present and then we can answer questions or ask questions. to some degree we sort of cut to the the last chapter, but let me let me just go back and touch on a couple other things and then I'll I'll answer any >> try to answer any questions that um that may have. Um the other very important and critical uh statute um well two others that talk about what you do um is um 10- um 221 and the purists who you know you go to a cave or you go to national school board conference what they'll tell you very broadly is the board's role is to develop policy and the superintendent's
041role is to implement it and run the school's dayto-day in Connecticut. the source for the the the reasoning or the rule about your role in terms of developing policy is in 10-221 and again I'm just highlighting some key provisions have not cherrypicked anything for any particular point u but boards of education shall prescribe rules for the management studies classification and discipline of the public schools and subject to the control of the state board of education detect textbooks to be used. Goes on to say shall make rules for the control within their respective jurisdiction of the school library media centers including internet access and approve the selection of books and other education media. Therefore, next paragraph it goes on to say that you shall develop and adopt and implement written policies concerning now gets very specific
042here uh homework, attendance, promotion, retention. Does that mean that's the end of the list? I don't think so. Uh but it's very specific in terms of those items. Uh but again to the point we were talking about before and you go beyond that I'm not aware of any restriction. Um and uh it there are other things that it lays out. Um it may prescribe rules for sanctions imposed upon pupils who damage or fail to return textbooks. adopt and implement procedures for dealing with um the use sale, possession of alcohol, or controlled drugs. But u that's basically the principle that people look to and say your primary role is setting policy, reviewing policy. Part of that, setting goals for the school district and analyzing how you're doing relative to performance in those goals and then going
043back and tweaking uh tweaking the um the policy. So, so that's the statement on the board's um call it primary role and as it relates to developing policies and procedures. Then of course there's the budget process which you probably have PTSD over. Um but you know that that's obviously a very critical uh um role and I I mentioned the collective bargaining uh process. you very specific roles in terms of that, very specific rules in terms of teacher terminations. But, you know, that's sort of the broad strokes of what you do. Now, the question is, what is the um what does the statute say about the superintendent of schools? Okay. Um, each local region board board of education uh shall provide for the supervision of its schools under its control by a superintendent who shall serve
044as the chief executive officer of the board. Okay. Um, I've yet to see any regulations or case law that describes what that means, but um um anyway, that's what the statute says. It say goes on to say the superintendent shall have executive authority over the school system and responsibility for its operation. Doesn't say day-to-day I'm sorry responsibility for its supervision doesn't specifically say is responsible for the day-to-day operation of the schools but that's how people ever since I've been involved uh have uh interpreted that. It goes on to say the um the board has to evaluate the superintendent. So, you know, we have these broad statements about what the board's roles and responsibility are. Some very specific things that the board is supposed to do. Um, we also have the broad statement about um maintain
045good and sec good public and secondary schools, which is a very broad statement. Yet another broad delegation of authority to the superintendent. So I I guess I point to all that to say um well let me just this and um also as part of my role in delivering this sort of training um on pages four beginning on page four and going on to page seven you'll see a chart talks about responsibilities of board of education responsibility of the superintendent of schools And um this is something that um um a had a published at one time or another probably with a couple of tweaks from me over the years but nothing substantive. I I could go through that but you know it's uh and and I encourage you to but it's not going to answer the
046kind of questions that I understand have come up here. Um, and so I I I think at the end of the day, um, where where I land on this issue is, you know, as you you Mr. Davis, you started to say before um there's nothing here that prescribes uh other than specific statutory grants of authority to the superintendent or more than ever um if you cannot develop a policy or procedure on a particular issue that you think is you know best for the school district and again um you know I mean I've been doing this for 40 years and um my my my view is that um I I stick kind of to the policy day-to-day operation view of things in part because I've just heard that espouse for a long long long time uh
047in doing this uh work. Um >> what does that mean exactly? >> Um what does that mean? Well, what that means is you set policy, the superintendent implements it, follows the policy, and otherwise the superintendent's responsible for the day-to-day operation of the school. You know, could could I come up with a list of hundred specific items and tell you who it goes to? I can't. I'll tell you, I looked um I contacted CABE. Um they didn't have such a thing. Um, in fact, at one point I realized there was supposed to be I think it was the general assembly, I believe, had dedic delegated to the state department of education responsibility for doing that. I can't find the damn thing anywhere. Excuse my French. Um, so it hasn't happened. Um, then I reached out to
048the council of school attorneys, figured well certainly some other state has tackled this problem and taken it on and I was not able to uh >> to find anything similar. So, it leaves a lot of room for discussion and a lot of room for what's what's uh what's best here. Um to to for whatever it's worth, my two cents, my view is um things ought to be left to the superintendent. If you don't think the superintendent's doing what they should be doing, then there's a process. So, that's that's the overview. Um, probably best just to try to answer any specific questions at this point. >> Christian, >> I was just taking up the invitation to ask questions. Is that all right? I don't mean >> Yeah, go for the question. >> Like case law, right?
049So, we've got, you know, the statute that we're looking at very scrupulously um both state federal, but uh these issues have arisen to some degree in some context that have gone to our courts and our courts have provided judicial gloss or otherwise um instruction right know exactly because they're not always on point. It's always fact specific, but they can be uh extrapolated or interpreted to uh apply to situations where there were some uh question as to what the board responsibility was. Right? So as far as case law goes, aren't there is aren't there examples of cases where our courts, you know, as far as law goes, binding, you know, depending upon how far up you want to go, um have determined that certain functions um like determining curriculum, how many teachers should be, you know,
050in a school system, line item, veto of budget, those are powers that have been already determined by a democratic process of law to be within the elected officials of a board. Isn't that fair to understand? Yes and no. Okay. >> And I'll tell you why. Um I think you're talking about the Ellington case among others. A >> bunch of them. >> Yeah. Um all the case law that I'm aware of is a fight between a town and a board of education. And the courts, you know, on the one hand, you have the Ellington Board of Education and the town of Ellington suing each other. And the court says as between the two, the board of education has that right and responsibility. I'm not aware of a single case that talks about the roles and responsibilities
051between the board of education and the superintendent. And the other thing I'll say is even education lawyers from time to time will slip into referring to the school district or the you know AMD school district you know or even you know the Milford public schools as the board but it's not really the board of education. they mean the school district. Um, so I take those cases with a grain of salt because I think people misuse the term board in those cases. Um, and again they're they're about disputes between a town and a board uh as opposed to, you know, where where does the line between a superintendent and the board of education fall? >> Uh, no, that was great. I I know I don't want to dominate your time. I just want to circle back,
052but I also >> uh >> so I I was trying to understand why you wouldn't have such a case law at all. I was thinking and there is here is why I think if the board and this the superintendent cannot sue the board in practice because the superintendent would get fired if if they did it, right? So, how could you expect to have how would you expect to have case law where a superintendent would go and find that's why you don't have case law? You wouldn't you shouldn't find it. >> Case law. >> Yeah. >> I mean, >> maybe I'm wrong, but >> No, no, I think you're I think you're absolutely right. Um, you know, that this the superintendent would Yeah. They would have to literally sue the board um in order to get
053a ruling. I'm trying to think of any other way. Uh but um that's the most likely way. And I mean, who's going to do that? And and who pays for it? >> Separate counsel. And then the superintendent's usually suing the board for wrongful termination or not enforcing a contract. >> Yeah. I mean these things are these things are worked out for very practical reasons such as you've noted >> and you know to add add to that uh we uh also evaluate the superintendent's right >> uh work based on an agreed upon uh concept of of what the superintendent should be doing and is the superintendent is doing that particular job. But, uh, to me it looks like with certain boards of education, possibly ours, uh, that we have board members that have a different view
054of what the role of the board is and what the superintendent is. And I think in uh and and CABE actually does recommend this, the board and the superintendent should sit down together and work out those issues to the best possibility of their acceptance for both parties. >> Agree. I agree. >> So that was what I was trying to get on at before. If we have a particular uh concern about uh what the superintendent is doing and no one has ever accused the superintendent of doing something wrong. It's just that where the level of responsibility is that should be determined at some point or other by agreement similar to the things that we agree to in a contract. Uh so that may be a policy listing some of those particular areas that would come up
055year after year after year. >> Uh and uh maybe the board being put in the situ position of saying okay we'd like the superintendent to do this particular thing and bring it back to the board so we can improve it or reject it by vote. And that that's I think where many of us would be looking for. Okay, that's a reasonable solution. >> That's exactly where we are. We're at the point where the question is whether or not we can even have that vote. Do we even have the authority to bring that topic back to the board? So before we could that's that's a very cooperative and democratic way of of dealing with it, which is great. But but the question is can we even do that? And and to answer that we have to
056find out where the the lines of demarcation sounds hostile where where the board authority seeds to the uh dayto-day which is the nebulous question at issue uh administrative power of the superintendent. So it's almost like a circular >> I know. I agree. Let's let's go down. Uh uh Carol I think I think turn of you had something. >> Yeah. I I was just going to suggest you know as part of the superintendent's evaluation or performance. I think you could sit down in the context of if this is how you want to do it. You could also do it very publicly. You could do it in an executive session under that and say, "Let's agree, you know, the rules and and develop what you've talked about here." And that's one way you could do that. >>
057Uh just to finish up, Christian, with what you mentioned and what I mentioned, the the concern here is that those guidelines policy should be in place so that everybody knows what they're dealing with prior to the event happening. So that uh if the superintendent is instructed to do something, she knows what is going to happen when she comes back to the board, not that the board would suddenly change the rules while she's doing something that she's done before or working. So all all I'm and I'm I'm agreeing with you, we should have try and at least try to lay those guidelines and rules in policy. if not in policy, at least an agreement with between the board and the superintendent in uh language that both of us agreed to. And that way we don't run
058into that t particular type of problem and everybody understands what they're dealing with and voting for. And uh Megan, >> so I feel like what I'm hearing you say is that the law isn't super specific and well defined. It is very broad and the argument that we are collectively having as a board is not uncommon because of that >> and so that within ourselves as a board we need to define exactly what we want to operate >> 100% >> and one of the so by background I'm a business person so I'm used to dealing with lawyers where I say like okay this is the reality of the business situation and then have you point me to what is best practice what is the solution And so I'm I'm finding we're talking very much in the
059abstract right now and not touching on like what has actually transpired here. Um so I kind of have two separate lines of questioning. The first that we have been circling around for months is what is best practice around a budget and does voting on a budget implicitly approve other things >> such as um a middle school schedule change that has curriculum changes and staffing changes and um curriculum delivery changes and I guess Part of where this concern evolved from is that we weren't even brought what the middle school schedule was going to look like. It was kind of a, oh, and this budget includes a change in the middle school schedule. And then as we started to ask questions about, well, why does the schedule change require four additional staff members? And then people were
060asking more questions. And so we requested a more detailed presentation on the schedule. And then out of that, we found out that it wasn't something many of the stakeholders wanted. And we actually had the teachers union email the board and say everything they presented and said that we were in support of this is not true. Um, and so that's where some of this is coming from is there has been, and I I'll speak for myself, I won't speak for the board, but I feel like our collaborative working relationship is not great. Um, and I don't always feel like information is transparent and forthcoming. Um, and sometimes I feel like it's deceptive. And so that is where this debate kind of evolved, I guess. And so, you know, we I basically was directly told where your
061vote on the budget was implicit approval for all of the above. And so I don't know if that's kind of my business concern. >> This is the issue that I was looking at also because the superintendent in presenting the way she did is a practice that she's done for years that the board has accepted for years. The fact that you look at it differently is not wrong. It's just different. And what I'm trying to get us all to look at is that we need to agree so that when the superintendent presents something, she knows exactly what the board is planning to do with it when she gets there. Uh, and as you said, some of the presentations that uh she made uh not her particularly, but some of the presentations we received, you had questions
062about. Uh I don't think there was one day where the questions were not answered and because of all the questions the board had without any vote at all. The superintendent and the administration went back and they made changes at our request. And I I specifically remember the board would like you to go back. They're not happy with what you've done and they would like you to come back to the board with changes that address the concerns that were brought to our attention. And the concerns involve uh other things like scheduling and uh moving kids from class to class and special um taking kids out of classes, additional language, additional physical education. Those were all things that we wanted to talk about world language. And they came back with a totally different plan that really changed
063very very little as I looked at it, the more I looked at it. But it did include two additional staff members. Uh, and I think if I recall, and somebody may call me if I wrong, when we did finally vote on the budget, somebody asked the superintendent, uh, how will this impact the middle schools? And the superintendent answer was a reply, we will work on it and make get it done. >> So, I I I really >> is that correct? >> I think so. And but I wanted to add one more thing because this is a a meeting that is on the record and words like deception etc have been used. I want to be very clear that many members of the board do not find that characterization appropriate and so I know you said
064that but I also want to explicitly say that that characterization is not something that many of the members of the board I don't I don't know how many but like is not something that we would agree is uh the characterization. Yeah. I just wanted to say Kathy, do you have >> and I know she came back and presented but the first round and the second round started to unravel and wasn't factual. We had teachers who supposedly were all approving this plan and they were sitting here and it's very threatening for them to sit here and say I have no idea. We had the teachers union saying we don't support this. So that d that kind of conversation drives us to ask the next question and the next question and the next question for clarity >>
065right you I yeah that's that's fine but people are entitled to respond or make their own statements and whether or not we accept or reject those statements is really up to us. The one question we didn't ask is did the teachers union accept the last offer? I don't know. Jen, >> you have asked that question. >> Did they I so schedule there is nothing enumerated in their contract that prevents schedule changes. >> Right. And so and and so I haven't and I know that they've been you know the teachers union has been part of the meetings that the middle school principles had with teams of teachers. I haven't heard one way or that one way or another because it's not a contractual violation to change the schedule. >> So basically >> yeah I I don't
066have an answer. So, so basically, and the board may or may not be aware of this, uh, teachers really have no say in their schedule or what they're teaching other than their certified area. They may be asked if they prefer this or what they're doing. But if the administrator has to appoint them to teach a class as long as they're certified to teach it and they, you know, uh, are in a position where they don't have another choice, basically. And the principles also are responsible for the scheduling in the middle schools and the high school. You you don't do that. >> not at all. >> Uh so I because I do remember you saying you were you know this is really coming from the middle school principles. You know, once again, I I don't like
067what I'm doing here because our our our board meeting is supposed to be about policy and uh getting legalities and things like that. And Carol, you've had your hand up patiently and Donna, wake up. >> Thank you, Paul. Um, so I just want to say that based on what I've heard from attorney Davis, this there's no statute that specifies us voting on particular issues minus the ones that we mentioned and I think on purpose then we talked about if there's case law that can help us here and no and yes sud I agree with you because one we hire the superintendent we evaluate the superintendent so there's a process in place if we are pleased or displeased so yeah I wouldn't I would imagine there is no a sloth to like uh help us in
068this situation. Um I think we it sounds like we vote we make a decision to vote if we want to. If that is what this board decides to do, we we can't because there's no state statute or anything that says that we can't. It doesn't say we can't either. So seems as though that is left to us. I think it's also important to remember that or to acknowledge that the statutes are not everything is not like oversp specified and that's on purpose. That is to give each board freedom to set their own norms and their own ways of working. So I don't see this as a oh what does the statute say? Whatever. I've said it before and I'll say it again. This is about ways of working and this is about this board figuring
069out what are the ways of working that we want. Who cares if we I'm sorry. Who cares if we vote? We evaluate the superintendent once a year. A formula evaluation. We renew the superintendent's contract every year. Like what what is the I I I I guess I just don't understand the like the battle over voting. It's inconsequential. I'm sorry. We're a board of education. There's some there's state statute that spells out specific things and frankly like we are we are in a the ultimate in this relationship. We are the ultimate in the ultimate position of power. So I I I guess the more time we spend on this I'm like what are we doing? Why we have a process in place and again if we want we can spend time and talk about how do
070we want to work? What are our ways of working here? the AMD board of education region five. >> Donna. >> Wow. Okay, Carol. Well, that's going to be a tough one to follow. So, a couple of things. Um, I think we can close the loop around the teachers. I think that's just a simple question going back to the A.E.A. because it has the schedule has changed and that uh to the point is that this was the first opportunity that attorney Duggas could join us and that's why it's felt so delayed and is we're sort of dragging this out. Um you know so when the f question first came about I did contact cave I shared this with the board and they said of course you know any board can override any administrative decision that is
071something that of course we can do you know other boards have done have overridden administrative decisions you know just most recently even Stanford around their school schedule. Um, so I something uh we can get some clarity from attorney Dugas is, you know, something he said was setting goals for the school district. >> And that is something that the board does. Correct. >> So we have a strategic plan, but the board has never actually approved the strategic plan. And so this is part of something that's actually in our strategic plan is to um address change the middle school schedule and it was actually slated for and I think that's where all this came from because it was felt very conceptual and I come from a world where I'm an implement so I start to look for
072um perhaps the challenges and as well as you know implementing something very smoothly because in my world it was my job was on the line and millions of dollars as well that I was accountable for. So I guess the the question isn't really you know do we have the authority to vote and should we vote. It is maybe a little bit of some board members not feel feeling as if they're not really part of the conversation and being brought along and it's a oh by the way where an effective board would not have to feel like they need to vote because they were brought along in the conversation. And it sounds more to me at this point that it's like the board the board's sitting down and setting goals for the school district. But part
073of that is still understanding why what is the goal of changing the middle school schedule. That's something that I I still feel a disconnect other than um some things that were presented to us were choice. Now how you implement choice and how this impacts our teachers. I think it does matter because we have morale and and we don't want to lose our valuable teachers as well especially in an environment where it is not necessarily easy to fill those vacant positions. Um, so I'm just going to leave it there. I I think that it's setting the goals as well. Do I believe that the board has the authority? Do I believe the state statute um implicitly outlines this? To your point, no. Do they? Of course they do. And how a board wants to move ahead
074is a board decision. And I think that's something that needs to be decided by this board. But also there is value in setting our goals as per the school district and I don't know if that's actively been done recently. >> No, I can answer that question that the board has had these same three goals since I before I was hired. Um I know they were the goals of my predecessor. Um, and I think we have at times tried to have goal setting sessions, but we just haven't actually gone to a point of actualizing new goals, but it's been that they're in the superintendent's report each month. It's the same three goals that we've had, >> right? So, I I think what I would ask the chair and this board is to actually set aside time
075for self-evaluation, for setting goals. Yeah, we we just right. >> And then just also trying to develop identify how the board wants to work collaboratively >> together amongst ourselves and with the superintendent. >> Okay. One of the clarifications I know you and I talked about this a lot self-evaluation. I looked at uh our bylaw um our policy on self-evaluation which we both have seen. uh the self-evaluation is more related to the full board, how the board works together rather than individual board members. We're not evaluating board members, we're evaluating the board as a whole and how we uh act together, which I I think is really the more important way to handle this. And if uh we can look that up, I I certainly agree we need to set aside time to do that. Uh
076but um you know we're all now getting to the same place that we have to find a way to work together to uh not only work together among ourselves but work together with the superintendent and uh after working with the superintendent for the number of years I've been here at least this superintendent she's tremendously flexible when it comes to listening to people and making changes if they need to be made. >> Davis, with all due respect, you know, point of order. We're here to precious limited time with >> Okay. Good point of order. Thank you, >> Kathy. So, I think um you know, stepping back, right? I think we need to as a board, right, she has to run the school. I get that. I think we need to get some clarity, some clarity among
077ourselves on things of magnitude, right? If they have magnitude, the board needs should be involved and should approve, right? Magnitude, right? Not the not the day-to-day, right? And some of these issues like we felt the middle school changes because it started to unravel was a magnitude. It's not about it's not about her wanting to do change. We just felt the magnitude seemed to grow every every board meeting, right? So that's just one thing and then all of the stuff we talk about policy versus regulation that's magnitude right that's a decision that collectively we need to talk about so >> right that's my position >> um attorney Ducas you mentioned micromanaging sort of in passing and I guess one of my questions is and it sounds like from what we've been talking about there might not
078be much guidance but is there some guidance um based based on other school districts similar to ours, regional school districts versus, you know, sort of just general school districts, um, of like where that line is because I think one of the things that we're struggling with is kind of when do we get into the weeds too much and does that then cause an adversarial relationship with the administration with, you know, with the superintendent? And I know um Donna you mentioned sort of morale with teachers and I think that's obviously something we have to worry about but we also have to worry about because we hire the superintendent that we don't create this adversarial relationship where then a we do an evaluation but she also evaluates whether she wants to be here and then the next
079person who is looking at this job says I've watched some of these meetings and this is not a good situation. I don't want to work at this you know in in this district. So the micromanaging line seems to be um an important one for us to think about in terms of when are we getting too into the weeds and like is there even just some broad strokes where it's like this is not things that are really in our authority. I think Kathy uh comment about the magnitude is is what we really have to look at. What is an important enough change or a large enough change or a change that impacts so many that the board needs to consider it and that could be the basis of what we uh sit down with and make
080a determination. >> But let me try to answer your question. No, there's nothing I can point you to to say here's the line here and what it is. What I can tell you in my experience and keep in mind while I work, you know, closely with superintendent, I represent boards. I represent you guys. And when this issue has come up, what I would say is the further you got into the weeds, the more problems it created. >> So, it's up to you guys to decide, you know, how far down down you go. >> All right. created or discovered >> created. I mean, sometimes they discover it too, but more often it it creates distrust. I mean, you know, if you if you're at that level, there's some level of distrust and there's a fundamental problem
081that needs to be discussed and dealt with. >> I think to that point, >> I hold on Dana. >> Yeah. So, I think um I think in terms of the middle school schedule and with the um things that kind of just came up that we weren't aware of and Jen Jen did change it after the request was made, but when you come here and don't expect to see almost an entire department come to speak out about something that's going to be part of that middle school change and also part of the budget, that we're going to vote on. It's disconcerning because we didn't know about it or we weren't aware. And to see most of a department come to speak about it and they don't really come to these meetings. That's where you start to
082develop. We didn't know about this or we weren't aware about it. And again, the highle presentations are great and maybe we would have just went along with it. But then when a whole department comes out to speak about it, it's concerning. Dr. Buyers did address the issue and she did change it. But that's where you sit and say, "Well, what else is in there that I don't know about or that may be hugely impactful to the students or to the faculty?" And then it kind of leads me back to the budget where well if we approved that and all that happened and then we found out that the department was upset now it puts us in a place where well we approved it. So you know >> I think that's where I think that's where
083a lot of the feeling of the surprise or we found out about it. Not the surprise we didn't know about it and it kind of came about. >> Donna and then Sudir. So I just want to talk about the budget. So first of all my understanding is when a board approve a bud approves a budget and it passes referendum the number is um approved but things can always get moved around whether it's supporting X Y or Z >> subject to whatever your internal rules are. Yes. >> Right. Okay. So um but just wanted to address that before I I lost that train of thought. The other is that you know you were you were talking about you know getting into the weeds and micromanaging but sometimes you can you know the c the other argument
084is that the devil's in the details and as elected um board members representing our towns we are also parents and so we happen to know the details because we have kids who are actually in the middle school. So when we're being presented with something as an implementer, I am sitting here thinking about, wow, that's not the experience we currently have and those changes and how those changes will change the experience that future students will have and what does that overall mean for the educational outcome and experiences of these students that you know I won't have any more students as I won't have any skin in the game >> but there are other people who will have skin in the game and so I am thinking about that so it's you know the the other argument
085is their devil is in the details and so understanding this is not necessarily micromanaging to address that point or getting into the weeds it's fully understanding the impact and the implications of such decisions >> okay so here >> that's I think it boils down to what K said what kind of a board do we want to be uh and and I I I I don't want to take away from your time because this is not a legal matter and you wouldn't be a but you have told us like you know what good birds do and one of the concerns that I have is anything that involves an iterative process where it's easy to say when everybody is going to be happy they can propose no teacher is going to be there'll be some departments who
086will be upset right about something that involves changes so when such things happen we are going to have people who are going to be upset and we want to bo we want an administration to come in with what's an on, you know, come to us open-minded, talk about innovation, right? Because the goal of the board is to create a a place for innovation where you can be transparent, where you have a give and take, where you you will not say, well, you didn't tell me something, therefore you must have been deceptive or whatever the words we want to use. And that means every administrator is going to not want to make any kind of change because it is going to be a situation where hey why do I want to all this trouble right and
087that is what a good board should do is to promote an environment of innovation and so I'm extremely worried right when we create a setting it's not just that they will get fire you know that person will not come it's just that we will not know for 10 years there is no innovation really happening because we are not looking for innovation we are only looking for did is Is there a problem in the budget? Is there a line that you spent a little extra? Those are the things that we can look for. We cannot look for the things that we want the school administration to do. And I would like to be and this is where the collaboration and trust is important. It's not just that like you know what comes out is important. It's
088like you know to give an environment where mistakes can happen and that is okay as long as they're willing to change. And from me, my perspective that I think is important and I don't know again I don't this is not a legal issue but you've seen things across the boards and is that what you mean by when people get into the words things get bad? >> Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, the things this going to sound I hope this doesn't happen to you, but I mean I I've had school districts where the board chair would literally come in and and sign off on all accounts payable. And aside from the fact that it held things up, >> that is treasure. >> That would be bad if that wouldn't happen here. >> I mean,
089it doesn't hold them up processing. I know >> um you know it it's sort of you have to be careful that what you do doesn't undermine the authority >> of of the decision maker because it can you know if there are some school districts where teachers unions in particular not to pick on teachers or unions but they'll run to the board when they don't like a decision of the superintendent and it just takes the legs out from the superintendent and you know so you have to be careful of that kind of a thing. uh just at least from my perspective uh sometimes I think we need to insulate ourselves from some of the people that we speak to. Uh I think almost every board member here as of one time or another spoken to an
090individual and come back here and said uh these people are concerned with this particular issue and uh and we we just did it tonight. the teachers don't like that or the administrator uh is is does not appreciate it or the bargaining unit says no it shouldn't be done that way. >> Well, with all due respect, we're elected officials by the people in town. That is our job to represent their concerns. >> Not not necessarily. Our first our first job is to act as agents of the state. And sometimes we have to say to the person who is asking us to do something said listen if this is really really important to you write me a letter write the board a letter come to public uh comment and let the board know that this is a
091real concern because we don't know how many people we're talking to. We we hear a very very small group of people or 13 of us that may bring this back to us while there may be hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people are saying hey you guys are doing a great job I don't want to see anything changed or even with this schedule you know we have people saying I like the schedule and people who say I don't and they're outside of our uh circle here and for the most part you know we don't we don't know whether a majority like it or whether a majority don't like it. It's it's just not good enough for us to just depend on what people are saying and how they feel. We need to explore what the
092uh particular change or what the thing that we're doing, how it's going to impact our students. That is where we need to place our um uh place our uh best efforts. And it may not be something that we like as individuals. I actually have students and hear from students. >> Yeah. Well, that's good. >> I I I know this is not my meeting, but I I I don't know. Let's say you insulate yourselves from people, honestly. And this has been the hard part, right, of transitioning from being a teacher to a assistant principal to a principal to right up the chain. It's that you almost have to train yourself to you can't just stay in your sphere. you have to kind of really look at the broader sphere. Um, and I always say that and
093when when parents come and they're upset, you know, when they come to my office and like I'm complaining about this thing, they argue from the point of view of their child or the child they know. And I always say, but I have to look at it from the perspective of all 2400 and what does that mean for all 2400? And I think that is that's where where we sometimes I think have to I don't know that's where I think the switch is sometimes and it's hard to do that. Um and I don't know I'm sorry Floyd didn't didn't mean to take up your time but that's kind of >> somewhere buried in my presentation is is a point about that which is no you know you no longer represent a specific school. um much more
094applicable again to a typical local school district, but um your interests are it's not your your child. It's um I don't even mean to limit it to that, but but the focus is what's in the best interest of all these >> these kids. You know, I I recently had to make a decision in my law firm that was against my personal interest, but it was in the best interest of everybody. And to use that analogy, once you get put on the board, when you're in this room, you you walk out the door, you're absolutely a parent, but in this room, you aren't. You know, you're board members and you're doing what's in the best interest of everyone. >> Okay, Kathy, >> just yeah, just one more comment. So, having been on this board a while,
095right, and we've gotten new members, I think culturally the board has a lot of passion, right? It wasn't quite as passionate in the past, right? And so that's a new thing that Jen is going to learn working with us and we're going to learn driving her. >> I think she's learned already >> to to neutralize our passion. But I mean you've Paul, you've even said this has never come up before. We've never done this before, right? Because we continue to challenge. >> So it's in good spirit and I think we need to understand back to what I said before the magnitude >> and and from my perspective that's helpful, right? Because what I have are eight years of different board members. They change every two years. And so there are things that would have been
096acceptable from one set a board that is different from a different I will argue I think all of the boards I've had have been passionate just in different we're a little >> differently passionate >> but that's why I think sometimes there are different expectations or I have a different set of expectations from a new board and and when I say new board it's a new board every two years because even if some of you stay or some of you run more than one term collectively. I don't think of you as individuals. You are the board and you change every two years. That's where that kind of getting back to I think you know that's a point around sort of some guidance helps. >> All right. Uh I didn't see any rule that says we have
097to stay here till late 30. >> Can we question not related to it? >> Yeah, that's right. >> I also want to just make a comment. I think maybe I was misunderstanding because I thought we asked for the attorney to come because we had concerns, not more of that it was going to be him telling us, you know, his presentation. I thought that's why we we had questions for you that directly affect us and may help us work better together as a board >> so that when we come here, we actually have an idea of yes, we can do that. No, we can't. And Paul, just to go back, and I hate to reiterate, you were not happy with the vised situation that came up with the budget. You you you openly spoke about it
098and the change was made. Now, if if we didn't ask as a board for that presentation to be done in a deeper dive, we really wouldn't have known about that. >> So, I get it that, you know, you don't want us to get into the minutia, but sometimes you need to. And that was a bigger broader situation that you wouldn't have known about had we not had that big presentation where we got into the details. >> Can I I I think >> Pat Yeah, you haven't spoken. >> Um I I agree with so much that everyone's saying and and I I think that for me I feel like the last the issue over the last couple of weeks or months has been what getting into minutia means. I agree that we all wanted to hear
099more information about the budget or about the about the middle school change because we had concerns and many of us didn't like the changes and we requested those changes be made and they were made. Um, and I think that for me the minutia becomes voting on on different making it a point that we're going to vote on the every little thing because that's my concern. And having been um I hear a lot of people talking about their experience, my experiences being in in education for the last 20 plus years of seeing schedule changes and actually living through them and that what's going to happen is there are going to be things that are going to need to change with this schedule. And I would rather have our administration be able to say, "This isn't working.
100We're changing it today." And have that flexibility without having to say, "Oh, you know, we need to knock three minutes off this class so that the kids can get to get to lunch and we can't do that because I have to take it to the board." And that >> we don't get we don't get that detailed though. We don't get that detailed >> every We don't get that detailed that she'd have to come back to us to give us three more minutes. No, but but so hear me out. What what I'm saying you what we're saying is we want to vote on schedule changes and getting into the minutia meets once we start taking that getting rid of the dialogue between the superintendent and us and saying you're running this. Hey, we heard about this
101part. We didn't like it. I I'll tell you, I reached out to the superintendent before any of the things and said I heard about some of this change and I have concerns. Can you talk to me about this? And I said I wasn't happy, but I and I I and I and what happened was we all came together, we talked, and changes were made. And what I'm advocating for is a dialogue. I I think that once we can all get together, I think we've all said that when we can get along, when we talk, we have much better interactions. >> Well, you know, giving Christian credit here, he was the one that mentioned he thought the way we handled the budget was an outstanding example of being able to come together and do that. Just
102like with the proposed schedule change here, which brings us to our conversation I wanted to circle back with you on. Okay. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thanks. Um, no. And that was, hey, look, you know what? Uh, our the board has a vote and the vote is the voice of the board. That is the only way we can fulfill our elected function is to vote. I mean, we can hang out and talk, but until we vote, we're not doing anything. So, our vote is super important. Um, and that's how we be redundant, fulfill our roles. um when it comes to our authority, you know, who has the final say. It sounds so totalitarian and that's not really the way we function uh I think as as a unique group and and with the superintendent,
103but there came a time when our superintendent very capable and adept said, "Hey, I've got a great idea. This is what we're going to do." Uh and there were some board members said, "That sounds pretty cool." And there other board members said, "I don't know. I got some issues with that." Right? And then um some questions were sent out, some information came back, and some board members said, "Hey, you know, I don't know anything about running a school. We hired a great person. Uh I I I don't feel comfortable uh trying to get involved with the superintendent's thoughts on the matter. I'm just going to sit back and let our hire do what she thinks is appropriate. Uh and I'm going to essentially again extreme term abdicate my elected official authority on voting on the
104matter because I think we have a great superintendent and she knows better than me. And there were others amongst us who thought man this is interesting but it should change in this way or that way or I have an issue with it. So the real question came down to where does the board and this again sounds so totalitarian have a final say where where is it that the superintendent can say I've got great ideas and you know what you've given me the budget to work within and I'm using the same number of uh teachers and I am going to make some changes uh that may impact um curriculum and assignment of teachers and possible uh class allocations some things that go beyond just what you see every day um and that's where I know you
105had said, Floyd that, hey, we could pass a policy that's kind of retroactive. Um, and then even if we tried to pass a poly, wouldn't the policy, wouldn't the superintendent theoretically be within her rights to say, hey, you guys are encroaching? You policy is going too far. Your policy is saying you as a board have authority over my day-to-day functions that you really shouldn't have to. You're overreaching. Right? So, that's why we're here to determine, is this something we can even vote on? And that's what we what we were saying was with the budget, we said, you know what, we have this agreement, so we're not sure what we should do. Let's vote on it. and and you know, kind of how we'll function. That's what we did. I thought we did a great job
106discussing and coming up with a majority, you know, democratic uh uh resolution. And so that's that's kind of what we want to do here. Uh but the question to council, I think, is do we even have the authority to do that? Can we sit and talk amongst ourselves and say, you know what, we are as a board going to decide by a majority vote whether or not we can um have the final say on this proposed um change to our school function curriculum. If I may, attorney do this, please. So, I just want to say quickly, Christian, I disagree that voting is the only way that we can fulfill our duties. We have the final say on everything, whether we vote or not. That is that is how I see us as a board function.
107So, I don't need to I don't need to feel like I'm voting to feel like I'm fulfilling my my function as an elected board member. So, that's one. So I >> what do you mean by final say? >> Well, what does he mean by final say? Well, the same thing he means is final say. So if for example, if we voted we voted for the budget to pass the budget. If in July we were like we think this schedule is terrible, do we actually think that that schedule would be rolled out? Really? I think we should. You don't have to answer that, but do you actually think it would be rolled out? Think let's think about who who we are. Again, I'm going to repeat. Ultimately, in this relationship, we are in the ultimate position
108of power. And I feel like this back and forth with like, are we going to vote? Christian, we already I I said earlier it doesn't say whether we should vote or not. It's a matter we can make the choice about whether we want to vote. But I guess I don't understand this. It's appears to me to be like a grab for power that we already have. Well, I think it's because the chair told all of us that we don't have the authority to do that. That's where the question came from. And I think what we learned tonight is that we have the authority. We decide that we have as a board within a very broad >> I don't recall I ever said the board doesn't have the authority to do that. >> So let me
109try to answer if I could get into it. >> I think I think the best way to do what you're talking about is through policy. Okay. It gives you the opportunity to to deliberate rather than deal with an issue that's right before you uh in in a meeting. Um is there anything stopping you from saying, you know, I'm I move it's on the agenda and it's not a special meeting. It's being added and it's on topic. You know, I I move that we direct the superintendent to do X. Do you have that authority with limited exceptions? Probably. Um, and what I say to superintendents in that situation is you've got a choice. You either say, "I'm going to exercise my authority to run the dayto-day or get get in a bind with your board, which
110is going to which is going to play out later on." I mean, but you know, again, I'll point out if you've got Well, I'll just leave it at that. >> I ask how do we as a board speak if we don't vote? How can we have any impact if we isn't by consensus either majority, unanimous, or otherwise? Do we have the fulfillment of policy or role or direction to our superintendent if we don't vote? Because we have a lot of different opinions. >> Well, well, you certainly have the ability to express that when there's an issue on the agenda and when it comes up to discussion of that issue, that's certainly the opportunity. But, you know, and again, if it's something that can wait, that's something that can be addressed in policy. If it's something
111that you don't think can wait can wait, you know, again, I'm not aware of anything that says you can't. Again, if it's on the agenda, have a motion and give some very clear direction to the superintendent and then it's probably in his or her interest to uh to follow it. >> The motion's voted on. In your 40 years of experience, have you ever seen any school board that functioned without voting? >> Without voting? >> Yes. >> Um, no. Can I can I just >> has not spoken very much. I I I I agree with Christian that that yes, >> our voice is through voting. But >> the question is, do we need to vote on whether or not we have softer toilet paper in the bathroom? And I think that that is what that point
112>> that that and that's what I'm that's what I'm getting back to. So I I agree. We we do we exercise our vote ultimately. we exercise our vote when we renew the superintendent's contract. And that's the thing and and for me, I just I feel like we spend so much time on this running. I I feel like we accomplished I I I do I feel personally that um there were things that I wanted to see change in the schedule and I was happy with the changes we were able to make without having to vote on it. I feel like we spent so much time worrying about whether or not we should be voting on all these things instead of just focusing on the dayto-day getting this school system to be even better than it is.
113>> Okay. Uh Dana and then Jen. >> So you we keep going back to policy and the superintendent executing the policy and regulations. So if a policy is is set and well maybe I should put it this way. Who has who sets the policy? You >> the board. >> Who sets the execution of the policy or I've heard regulation of the policy? >> Well, there's two things. Um, execution of the policy is solely the providence of the superintendent. It is common uh for there to be for there to be regulations that detail how you accomplish the policy. Okay. A lot of policy, you know, some policies are, you know, three or four sentences, but you've got to tease out a whole bunch of stuff. And, you know, frankly, a lot of times when we advise
114boards on policy changes, adopting policy, whatever, there's different schools of thought, but certainly my school of thought is keep it simple, stupid, because you can there's things you can tweak in regulations without having to go through the amendment of the policy process. And a lot of those things can change pretty frequently, you know, a couple times during the course of a year. So that's just um I hope that answers your question, but that's how I view it. >> So >> are you going to continue on that? >> Yeah, I have this. >> Yeah, because I was going to ask another question, but maybe she's going to ask. >> What is the adoption process for regulations? Is it you write it and you adopt it? It's I I could be wrong, but I think it's different
115for every board because ours is defined in our bylaw and in the AMD bylaw, I just write and implement the regulation. >> So then what happens if a regulation is in conflict with board policy andor law? >> It shouldn't be. >> So what is the process for handling that? >> I've never had that come up. >> Well, it's coming up right now. give us your guidance. >> I um >> you could you could imagine >> this is this is >> this is a particular case that we can do something about. >> If the board wishes to vote on regulations, superintendent presents the regulation to the board and the board votes on it. You can set that up in policy without any problem at all. >> I mean I can I can give you a simple
116example but it's not a hot topic >> that that we can wrote on regulations right now the circumstance we're talking about. So um so for a good I don't know 15 years every single year the state by statute would change the graduation requirements at one point the >> that's the policy like they changed the policy >> they no the state law would change every year >> and at one point and we have a chart of like what the graduation requirements are and at one point that was part of the board's policy so every year I would bring it to policy committee we would go through first read we would go through second read and then by January our policy would catch up to the state statutes for the kids that were graduating that year and
117we would have accurate graduation requirements. At some point the board said this is stupid. They change every single year. Take that chart out, put it in as a regulation and in July when those new graduation requirements come in just change the regulation. And that's what we did. So that is that's kind of so to answer your question that's how fast a regulation can change um is that if it's misaligned if state statute changes if you know a new law comes into play I send it off to either CBE will usually push something out right away if they don't I can send it to Floyd and his firm and I say tell me how to change the regulation based on this. So it's a much faster process and that's why it exists is because it deals
118with things that change quickly. >> Right. So actually graduation requirements is a policy that has it's on our agenda and it's been on our agenda and the concern was brought by a letter from a parent that actually our graduation requirements should be set by the board because the board actually issues the diplomas and that our graduation requirements go well beyond what the state statutes requirements are. And so maybe simply we can either do it through policy or the approval of regulations because we get the updated state statutes come June. We can move on them pretty quickly. It doesn't have to be January. If it's simply oh this year uh state statute is we no longer require two languages to graduate two years of language to graduate. Now we only require one which is actually what
119has happened. And so then you just simply say, "Oh, great. It's a simple one. First read, second read." And then you implement and it doesn't necessarily need to be a january type of thing. >> So again, just to give you an example of sort of how regulations can be adjusted quickly, >> right? And and to Kathy's point, you know, after having experienced some of us for more than one term that you're learning how we like to do things and that we're not necessarily previous boards. Is it safe to assume that the reg we don't you don't have to bring the regulations to us when you change them because I'm assuming a lot of regulations change often. >> Yes. >> So if a regulation changes >> your bylaw just says I can change the reg regulations.
120So again another example right we did that we're doing that summer geometry force for kids who want to sort of accelerate our old regulation until I changed it said that any classes taken during the summer wouldn't count for credit and that seems foolish to me that we're having kids take one of our classes in the summer for acceleration and not counting it for credit so I changed the regulations so that an amity class taken at AMD will count for credit >> how what is the procedure that you just take the require or the need for the change and bring it to the attorney for approval or >> if I if I think it needs to go to the attorney in this case I sort of ran it by the principal and our director of counseling
121and Shannon and said does this make sense if we want to have these kids earn credit for summer geometry so yeah I think it depends on kind of the what's in the regulation and sort of who has that like where it's you know sort of the level I guess the level of the magnitude as put it >> not that a parent would take issue with that. But if they did, who has ultimate responsibility legally for what's in regulations? >> I'm not sure what you mean by legally, but if the superintendent were to change that rule, it would it would be applicable. >> We would change the policy, right? We would edit the policy if it was an issue >> in the regulation. The other thing, by the way, is I I would think and that
122your regulations are published in your >> on your online policy, you know, with the regulations. So they >> they're linked as like a >> they're linked they're not actually in it. >> Okay. >> So can I >> So one thing >> no they're linked. So one thing that struck me again this is since we are having a broader conversation one thing that struck uh me was like hey you know several of us are passionate about several things and that is true and like you know and and that means in one way the interpretation is that depending on what we are passionate about we're going to change the way the board operates and there is a part of me that believes that an institution that has lasted for 70 years should not change every time just
123because two board members or three board members changed because an institution is should be reasonably stable in the way it operates and so I I'm a bit worried about this idea that like you know we are going to think that everything can be brought to policy because uh you know so in these kinds of examples like suppose we decide that we are going to make a policy change about a curriculum and like you know and that we need to break and then she decides there has to be a change in the way the syllabus is brought and now we have to bring it back because we've created the policy I I think best practice would be like to really think hard not because we are particularly interested in an issue or something like that as
124to what is the really the problem that we are trying to solve and I you know I I heard the word abdication I don't view that as abdication at all I view it as an important way in which we can practically run the organization in the most efficient way by always asking the question by not writing a policy are we really creating a problem is there something that is there rather than saying oh you know we want to have some control over something we doing the same thing with the hiring of administrators why uh what is the problem we're trying to solve and I I think if we did that I think we would be much you know it it's hard for me to believe that 70 years of this institution all the words before
125somehow did not know and suddenly we have some new wisdom and I think we have to be very careful and we have to be very slow a conservator I mean like you know a conser observative in how we think about managing things. If it is some in this case, if it was pointed out to me that there was something really really bad that would have happened about the middle school schedule and and the superintendent would not change something that we all agree is important and we had a vote like you know if seven of us think that you know that this this schedule should not go, we could stop the superintendent from doing it. We don't want to take a vote and create a president around it because that means then she'll have to come
126back to us if she wants to make a minor change when there is a mistake. So I think it's the reason I don't want a vote, the reason I don't want a new policy is because I want to preserve the flexibility in this case uh for a change. Uh and so it's a very carefully thoughtout position. I I want to be very clear my lack of interest in taking a vote is not because of abdication but because I carefully thought through it and believe that might be in the best interest of the board and the school district. And I want to explain that >> in Paul's absence. That was a good question. >> Um, as Sudir was saying, um, I think, you know, it just thought, hey, we could have a vote to stop something
127if we thought that it was, um, not desirable, you know, harmful or whatever. Uh, and and that's really that's what we're that's what we're asking, you know, can we can the board have a vote, you know, or is what we're talking about day-to-day operations? So I mean I think Sadir is is kind of agreeing with the question or the answer question saying we could have this vote. We do have the authority but we choose not to exercise it because we're afraid it might be perceived as a uh lack of confidence in our superintendent. So unless there's some problem we're going to sit back and let her do her best and then if if something goes wrong then we at least know we've got the the emergency thing on a bus. We can pull that have
128a vote and say hey we have the authority to make you stop. Well, the question is whether or not we even have that authority or whether it's day-to-day operations. And I think what you said is that unless there's some authority specifically statutoily delegated to the superintendent, we the board through policy can define what day-to-day operations are. >> Um, can you define what I suppose the answer is yes. >> Thanks. I guess that'll be a vote. Um, so I think one of the examples of how we use our VO voice without voting that came up recently was the AI issue. We had multiple people come for public comment. I asked for it to be put on an agenda. We had a discussion. It's going to policy. Eventually, we will vote on the policy, but the issue
129itself, we shared our concerns and we're, you know, we shared basically to policy, but as a group. And then the other thing that I was very surprised at when I went to the CABE um training was that we as board members are allowed to participate in public comment. We are not board members when we make public comment. We are constituents and parents and things like that. But that is another way that we can as board members share our points of view when it's not on the agenda, when it's not, you know, a policy or something we're voting on. We can still share our opinion as parents, right? And public comment is one of the ways that we can do that. I was very surprised and I'm assuming I'm correct and you'll tell me if I'm
130wrong. Um, but that's another thing that we can think about that if you're very passionate about something when I wasn't sure it was going to get on the agenda, I was going to get up and talk about my concerns about AI. Um, and that's something, you know, as board members we can think about, too. We still have our voice as parents and as community members, even if it's not something that there's an arena for at a board meeting. I think another way that you also make your voice heard without a vote are your goals. That's that to me is a very clear way that that sort of sets the direction and goals. So getting back to Donna's sort of point around goal setting and evaluation. Your goals are a very right and we put them
131up at the start of the budget and we say the budget's aligned to the goals. That's actually a pretty critical way that I think you make your sort of voice and direction heard without that vote. >> Don't we have to draft them together and then vote together to say >> eventually? Yeah. Sort of sort of like the policy you do vote on. But yes, but I think you know you get what I'm saying. It's sort of a different approach to kind of say this is what we value and is of importance to us. >> Right. So So Carol, I just wanted question for you. >> What did you mean by um without voting? >> So we have the final say. Yeah. >> Oh, uh just saying that we can uh share our voice through dialogue.
132We can talk to the superintendent just like we went back and forth about the schedule to say, "Oh, no. We didn't like don't like that. Uh can you change this? Can you change that?" And it happened. We didn't vote, but she made all the changes that we wanted. So, that's what I mean. Like, it doesn't always have to we don't have to vote like we have, again, we have the ultimate power here. There's a process in place for everything. We have the final say. We're ultimately responsible, right? The attorney, the attorney is the board's attorney, right? Like we are ultimately responsible. So that's what I mean. So yes, I'm sure statutoily there's something like budget, whatever, but like there's so many ways that we can express our like perspectives and get things done without a
133vote. >> Okay. when you were at the cave meeting and they talked about public comment cuz I was always under the interpretation that we couldn't speak at public comment being a sitting board member. >> We've had board members do that. >> Yeah, especially as a parent. >> Excuse me. Let me finish asking the question to my co my fellow board member. When you were up there, did they say that your question had to be agenda related or could it be something that was not on the agenda? >> I think that's based on the board rules. I >> yeah it whatever your rules are in public comment. >> So what are our rules special? >> Yeah there is we there is uh what we have for this special meeting is a limited public comment to the
134agenda but in our regular meetings we never do that. Anybody can come and see >> special meetings is is limited to the agenda. >> We're doing it that way >> and regular meetings >> meetings any any subject area >> which is every other that's not in law. >> No that's the way we do That's we >> that's what we do >> bylaw >> and and there are times when we don't have public comment at all if there you know it's a desire to focus on something else. So >> I just want to tie one more thing because there's a lot of passion about voting and I don't feel like we vote on a lot of things. I feel like that's one thing that we don't really do is vote on a lot of things unless
135it's policy the transfers >> money business right >> however if we didn't ask for a full presentation of the aminity the the middle school schedules there's things we wouldn't have known that were in there and not necessarily that I was looking to vote on it but if we didn't have a full presentation and we didn't ask for it we would have voted on a budget that would have allowed the full change to the schedule that when we discussed it in the full presentation, then we realized there was things that Patrick liked, maybe I didn't like, maybe someone else did like. So, not necessarily that we had to vote on it, but if we didn't ask for the full presentation, there's things we wouldn't have known. >> Okay. So, you are 100% right. And if we
136don't make sure that we hear the full presentation and to our uh you know to what we want to hear, then we have to ask the questions. And if we don't ask the question and then come and blame somebody that it's not what we wanted if we didn't ask the question then uh >> and Paul that that is >> exactly >> part of our role as >> like when I show up I'm sorry I show up with to poke the holes right to with a critical eye not because of any personal thing between me and the superintendent but like we have 13 minds here right and so collectively when we ask questions That's what we get something better in the end. That's just part of the role. >> Okay, that's great. Uh, is there somebody
137who has a question that has not been even mentioned tonight that they want to hear a specific answer to from a legal point? >> I have I do. >> Okay. >> Um, so let's say someone makes a motion to vote on that. Can it be um indefinitely suppressed through a tableabling? >> I mean, following Robert's rules, you Yeah, I suppose it can be tabled if the majority want to table it. Under Robert's rules, it can be tabled. Sure. >> Right. Because the mo the motion was, if I remember correctly, so correct me if I'm wrong, the board has the authority to vote. And that ended up going absolutely nowhere. Um, but it was a very intense meeting and >> split. >> Oh, did pass though. >> It didn't pass because it was it was >>
138the board should be aware if the chair makes a ruling on a particular item. Somebody can raise a point of order and ask that the board vote on whether or not the chair is correct in uh either you know saying that something is wrong or something is right. Uh generally according to Robert's rules of order it takes twothirds of the uh vote. Yeah that's twothirds of the voting members uh to approve that and you can check that in Robert's rules of order. >> Right. to to overrule chair. So that in that same meeting, I was just going to motion to vote, but it was rather in intense. So I had a different idea of just bringing the motion because, you know, I I'm I'm listening and I'm hearing everyone's, you know, we have the authority
139and do we should we vote and why we shouldn't vote and why we should vote if we just did do a vote. Maybe one maybe one of our goals for the entire board this year is to uh be able to define exactly how we want the board to run. And there are some people that say the board should be doing this and the board should be doing that. And ultimately, at least at this point, uh, from my standpoint, uh, as an elected chair, I I try and do what I can to keep the meetings running smoothly, accomplish all our business, and take into account, uh, at least in some way or other the wants and desires of all the members. uh there may be at times that I will uh say that's out of order
140or we're not accepting it and then come around and say let's see if we can go back and find a way to address your situation. Uh I I I try and do my best but you know obviously there's going to be people who disagree with what I do from time to time and I I think that is the way with all organizations that that that that happens. Uh, and now you've have that. No more questions, right? Anybody? Good. Um, we have public comment. Next item of business. Anyone? >> Well, anybody here for public comment? >> Thank you for your time. >> I have no public comments. >> Thank you. >> My pleasure. >> Thank you so much. >> I hope it was helpful. Appreciate it. >> Does any board member want to make a public
141comment to the agenda items? We can't wait. I >> I have >> on the agenda item on the agenda because it's special. >> I I have a request from the board, four board members. Um >> good night everybody. >> I I think we had a fruitful meeting this evening and I don't want to let it go at that. So, >> what I'd like you, if you have some time and uh some thoughts about it, give yourself a few days to see if you can uh send to me uh your thoughts and things that you'd like to see us do as a full board to uh shall shall we say address these concerns that we've had tonight. And uh maybe we could work uh additionally. And I wanted to start that uh couple of meetings ago.
142Uh the other thing I wanted to uh talk about as far as meetings go, I uh Autumn sent me a suggestion about uh uh the way trying to be a little bit more efficient in meetings and and we talked about something called the consent agenda. Uh for those of you who don't know what that is, uh a lot of the stuff we do is very routine and everybody agrees to it and so on and uh consent agenda is just rather than debating the whole thing and going through all the information um we set it aside on a special agenda and then when we have all the items that we're going to vote for on that agenda, uh we'll ask the board if somebody wants to remove that because they don't agree with it any longer,
143something like that. And uh if that's all clear, then there may be four or five or six items on there rather than debating the whole time or getting full explanations about everything that's in our packet to begin with. Uh we vote uh the consent agenda approved that would approve all those motions. So I'm I'm looking at that and uh it's it's a technique that a lot of organizations use and it would never it would never remove from the regular agenda an item that one person wants to discuss. So, it's only items that >> would this be like business items? >> It it could be business items. It could be anything. The board the chair would say item number four like to place on the consent agenda. Are there any objections? And if somebody has a
144concern about that, they say I have an objection. They say okay, we don't put it on there. And that's the way we normally operate, that type of thing. So, I'd like to try it at some meeting in the future. And uh >> in in a lot of cases, I mean, and again, just sort of um I'll try to find some examples because I know there are boards who do this, but like approval of minutes is on the consent agenda. Um >> you have to sort of our meetings, but like a lot of times our transfers are on the agenda because you guys usually typically approve the transfers. Um you know, the um transfers under $3,000, which is an information item. So there's a series of kind of regular things to Paul's point that you approve
145fairly regularly and that's what boards put on consent agendas. I will say um there are a lot of boards that will put policy on consent agendas, >> you know, and so um >> that does >> our policy committee works too hard to be put on. >> Um but does the consent agenda have the same meeting? So, so yeah. Yeah. A lot of times you it's the first item of business item of business, right? You vote to approve the consent agenda and all those things now you're like check check we're all done >> and then you have time then you go on to the rest of the meeting. Do you is there like this is the consent agenda and you call a vote to clear all that stuff or just by saying >> that's typically how
146it happens is >> but the vote doesn't necessarily have to be taken at that time because we may come to an item later on and everybody says oh there's no issue with that I said would you like to put the add that to the consent agenda that that can be done too so we'd have to figure out what's best Kristen >> well in in the spirit of discussing upcoming meetings right um there is you know that a request you know leaving the content out of this question uh for you know signed by you know three or more asking for a special meeting to address something that I think >> is we all might agree is significant to each and in our communities uh and that perhaps we should all talk about I I really appreciate
147the thought and and the continent response um in that hey you know we could probably wait till some other time to have it more informed by third parties again I'm being intentionally obtuse for the record uh but I'm wondering ing if we could kind of honor the honor no if we could have the um original special meeting possibly even what some might say prematurely but just so we as a board can talk to each other about what's going on as Patrick noted and I think as we've all realized look sometimes in these kind of circumstances just to be able to discuss amongst ourselves what's going on can be really helpful and then we can meet again with um council recognizing that that meeting wouldn't be elucidated benefited by having you know the the complete uh
148research of council but could we have that meeting without council sooner than later so we can talk as a board >> I I really don't know if the board as a whole would want to do that and >> we could vote but but again there there wasn't really a discretion we can't vote on it today was policy first >> I understand what you're saying and I I you policy didn't seem to provide for a discretion. The policy said if three or more then it will happen. >> It wasn't >> No, no. I as a matter of respecting all of our time. >> I I told me I told May I make suggestion and find out from your council how soon they would be prepared to respond. If they say two months or a month, that's
149different. But if they say we'll be ready kind of. >> So if I could just maybe give them a little time and then they can give us a I guess one thing we didn't get would be and I didn't ask the question about generally speaking how would you advise if things sort of follow up and just sort of see what time frame they're thinking to make it >> and one of the things I did discuss with him is >> uh people that are more expert in a particular area that he doesn't uh necessarily uh cover. So we might be able to form some questions or concerns as a group amongst ourselves being, you know, lay people and then and then that would actually benefit to be passed on so that when we do have a
150more legally informed meeting, I anticipate that might be productive. I'm just Hey, you know what? If the board isn't really worried about it, hey, we'll get together then. >> I'm I'm going to I'm not going to give my personal opinion. I I know my my concern is only that we now have two meetings a month and we're going to have another special meeting, the one you call >> and then it was add another meeting all within a period of a few weeks and uh you know it's it's it's this could be >> I I I just I I would love to say sure it's no problem but I do have a suggestion all night >> to your bed. Can we just ask Jen, can you reach out to council and see if we can get
151an answer by Friday? If we can't, can you try to schedule if they say two months? If it's not like next week or something very timely, can we just schedule something as soon as we can? >> But then how does that work? Not to interrupt, but how does that work? Do we re-request a meeting? We >> the original request >> we we just we just uh get to the attorneys and say can you get uh you know a basic idea of what we should do to get to us an >> we don't have to reerequest a meeting you got started out >> so would this be an executive session or would this be >> I I certainly uh it would we could be an executive session if it discusses a legal matter >> but this
152is this kind of a I I don't know whether at this point it is technically a legal matter or not because there is some uh but I am just a little I am personally a bit concerned about being able to say things in a way that like you know without any knowledge like you know getting what exactly should I say and what I should not say and it concerns me a little bit to be in a meeting where without any legal guidance I put my mouth off and say certain things that actually I would love to see >> there there is the issue and it's interesting it comes from the uh chair of finance that if you have two meetings with lawyers, you're going to be having additional costs. >> I I will I I
153will confer with the attorneys prior to a meeting whether it's with them or whether it's not with them if it qualifies for executive session. Okay. >> We do that all the time. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we work on I just think that you know the request is like this doesn't happen all the time. This is rare. This is not your usual. Let's have an extra be. This is significant. There's going to be a number of people within all of our communities and constituents that are going to be you're all worked up over this. Uh and they're going to be putting pressure on each one of us. And I think we as a board and individually really need to know how we handle the public inquiries and public pressures. And uh we I I'd like to
154believe that even you can provide us as a chair guidance in the absence of a lawyer breaking down the legal elements of what's going on, but generally talk to us about the situation. And I think that would help us all because right now we're kind of unable to do so without creating a meeting and we're all kind of foundering in our own little individual what the heck's going on here and how do we handle it and I think the sooner we coales as a board the better for everybody. >> And Paul with the end of the year coming up if I can make a request that we attempt to have it be connected to a meeting we already have so that we're not unable to attend because it's at a random day or time >>
155on a day that we have. >> Yeah. Yeah. So maybe it's executive session before or after a normal or a special meeting that's already scheduled. >> It's two weeks. >> You're somewhat constrained also by the availability of the attorneys and in this case very particular attorneys that >> you need to check with. >> So I will expedite it as fast as I can with the correct people but I don't know that we'll have a whole lot of choice. >> Please uh Right. Yes. and I'll talk to you about that and get that date set. Uh it's it's a difficult issue and uh and it's of concern to everyone. Uh >> it is a difficult issue, but it went out to the public. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's another item that we we had a little
156screw up. It went to the kids, too. I think uh as I stated in my We made we created some noise, right? We need to really have some kind of position. >> So, we as a policy were able to go into executive and discuss it in that fashion and I found that to be very informative and very beneficial and I think the rest of this board would benefit from it and we didn't have legal counsel there and it was very helpful and that's what I'm recommending. >> Well, thank you. >> Mike is requesting that. >> So, just a couple reminders for the board for next week. Um, next Monday is your annual meeting. Um, 5:30. It takes about 15 minutes, but it opens up the referendum, but we do have to have people there to
157actually run it. Um, or else like there has to be somebody to open the referendum. Um, so, um, it'll be a very brief meeting. If we do not have anybody in the public, I do not have to give another presentation of the budget. Um, so you can wave that. At 5:45 the facilities committee meeting will meet as soon as that annual meeting is done. Um and then um >> that's in the presentation. >> Um is it in the presentation room? >> Yeah, because remember um Peter Downour is in here with >> Oh, it's in the presentation room. So we'll have to move because I guess student government is in here. >> Yeah, >> which is fine. Most of our facilities meetings have been in the presentation room. So that will work. >> Oh, social district
158meeting. >> Yeah. Okay. Yep. Yes. Annual meeting just Yes. Oh, the annual meeting's in the presentation room also. Oh, okay. Everything's in the presentation room. We'll post it as such. >> I did. Great. >> Thank you. >> Um, so yeah, those are both next Monday. >> All right. All right. >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn for Mike. >> Thank you. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. Uh, any objections to adjourning? >> No objections. Meeting is adjourned without objection. >> I literally had