001Sorry, I'm here. >> All right, we are good and we are live streaming, so we're ready to roll. >> Hi everyone. Thanks for joining us. Uh we're going to uh start the ad hoc school start time committee at 4:23 p.m. Okay. Uh first on the agenda is we're going to uh approve of the minutes. So call to order our meeting and we're going to approve our minutes. Does anyone have any changes? >> You need a motion first. >> Sorry. Motion to approve the >> I make the motion. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Now, any changes? >> Any changes? All right. Since I can't see everybody, I'll call the role. So, um, Miss Schuster, >> uh, yes. Miss Huburn, >> yes. >> Dr. Olle, >> abstain. >> Okay, motion passes and you're good. We didn't get
002any requests for public comment, so >> Okay, great. Okay. So, our for our last meeting, we were discussing um drafting the presentation for the BOA superintendence meeting that is scheduled uh for November 6 at 12:30 in the Orange District offices. Uh the goal is to gauge um a level of interest from our elementary school districts in perhaps adjusting times if if needed and because we do have some shared services and teacher contracts to take into consideration. So um our last meeting we discussed um you know I guess all you know all the relevant reasons why we're looking to doing this. The goal is to um have you know healthier start times to increase performance for our adolescence. And we discussed that uh you know sleep studies show along with American Academy of Pediatrics recommending that
003middle schools and high schools don't begin until at least 8:30 in the morning. and our you know our current districts we begin at 7:34 with our elementary schools beginning around 8:30. So um you know there are some things that we can do but first we we want to invite them to the conversation and talk about uh you know a first I guess why why we're doing this because you know this is better for our students and for adolescence for um performance um academic performance better mental health um you also see better physical physical performance, um, safer driving, uh, decrease in interest in maybe substance abuse and other risky behaviors, and also looking at tardiness and just staying awake in class. So, this is just the beginning uh, phases. Uh Andrea sent a a sleep a
004study that she found um around earlier elementary schools that begin later or earlier. And >> wait, can Andrea, can you share that with us because Tom, I know sent one out, but we didn't get your study that you shared. >> I think that was it. >> Oh, okay. So, it's the one that that Tom shared. Got it. Right. Okay. And so unless unless anyone has any other any other takeaways from it, I don't see that there was any big difference in performance or any or anything else. I mean I I found some additional information that you know the the amount of time kids need or is recommended for sleep from sleep foundation and sleep.org. And when we talk about age school kids, you know, 6 to 13, it's 9 to 11. Teens 14 to 17,
0058 to 10. But their peak performance or being attentives begins around 8:00 and then they somehow fall they fall asleep somewhere between 11 and and 12 just based on their adolescent sleep cycles. So does anyone else? So what are thoughts? >> So I have a I have a question. Are we do we want um additional studies like do you want like a comprehensive like review of like studies on later school start times? Um, and I I'm wondering if like um being able to address I don't know I don't know what the what the findings are if there's like did you say there's no they found no difference Donna >> for elementary schools there's if they start between you know uh between 7:30 and 9. >> Okay. So there's no real difference in So if they
006were to start a little earlier, there's no difference in having their academic performance um adjusted or changed based on their start time. And they tend to wake a little earlier anyway. >> Yeah. >> Preschool kids. Y >> I mean overall they do they do need more sleep but they tend to go to bed earlier and wake up >> earlier districts in Connecticut that do this already. >> Are there districts that have I'm sorry what was that question? >> The reverse in Connecticut already where the older students start later and the younger students start earlier. >> You know I looked at some and the districts I see they usually start later. Um, >> yeah, >> they started >> I I I don't think anybody's made the flip switch. I think everybody's just pushed it usually between
007say 15 to 30 minutes, >> right? >> Oh, both elementary and middle school. >> Everybody's just later. >> Yes. Yeah, that's that's essentially what I think has been tried. Um and uh and you know and I think our original thought was to try to come out with some arguments to convince the elementary districts that this would be beneficial to them. Um the study the study that uh Tom gave us and then I think he and I both did some uh some AI deep research there isn't any benefit to elementary students starting earlier. Um, to Donna's point, there there's really no cell on any angle other than at the adolescent angle. Um, so I'm not sure if trying to convince them of benefits to elementary kids is necessarily going to be the way to go because
008they're smart people. They're going to find out that there isn't one. Also, um I think it's it's going to have to be more of an appeal >> to um to just liking, you know, essentially wanting what's best for all kids, not just the kids that are in their district. >> Well, also their kids are eventually going to be >> right >> like, you know, adolescence who would benefit from this. So, yeah, I I I Yeah, I think that's right. Um Yeah. Right. Um Go ahead. is our I guess what's our what's the what do we want to come away from what's the objective for the meeting on the 6th I think it is and like what do we want to come away with and from that meeting >> we would like to know whether or
009not they even want to talk about this topic >> okay >> because if they don't want to come to the table with us if I can sort of paraphrase for what we said the last time if they don't want to come to the table then there's no point in us doing any other work because it has to be all four districts together or else it's cost prohibitive. >> Right. I do, you know, I gave a little more thought to that, Jen. I'd like to hear everyone else's thoughts on even just doing a transportation study and seeing if we can get some um efficiencies and with with within our own district that may allow us to do some shifts. And I the only reason I brought this up is because I hear from parents that they're
010the the students who ride the bus sometimes they're on for like 40 minutes which seems a little long. So I'm not sure um you know if we have a if you have data on that and you know what what are the early pickups and how far they from the school and maybe looking even at efficiencies that would allow us to make a shift without impacting or needing the elementary schools. Just just a question. >> We I'm sorry we don't have that. I mean, I have data on what time each bus run leaves and and sort of what time they get to the schools. Um, we because we operate with the independent owner operator system, I don't know that we have ever had a person come in and do a transportation analysis. Um, so if the
011if our AMD board was willing to pay for that, then that's definitely something that we could do as as part of this. Um, you know, I think that think that could open up some concern of moving away from the owner operator system because a single operator system perhaps may be more efficient and I don't know if there is that desire within our three towns to do that. Um there's certainly not that desire on my end because our owner operators have been more responsible than any of these other large bus companies. But um but again that's that's a possibility. I mean if they turn us down the elementary districts we can put our money into those efforts. >> Right. Does anyone think there's any uh benefit? I >> so I wonder if one thing that may
012you know cause them to entertain this idea is you know Jen you said it would be cost prohibit prohibitive for us but it would be for them too right like we all benefit financially right >> yes but I don't I don't think we want to go in and strongarm them and say we're >> No no no not strong arm them but I'm just No no no no but just pointing out that like that is a that that's something for them to to consider like I I think you Um, I think our goal is to do what's best for like our uh school age kids and it may not align with, you know, their priorities, but it's okay. In in the end, we're going to do what we think is best for like our middle and
013high school age children, >> right? I I think we also Go ahead. I'm sorry, Andrea. We also said last time that that it would have to be a significant change. It would basically have to flip-flop. We would need that hour time, right? So, we weren't going to give on 15 or 30 minutes if it was that that much of a difference. And so, to your point, Donna, if we're going to do a transportation study, I think we already know that it's going to take we're going to need that full hour to do that. And I think our I don't know, Jen, our our runs full that they like even if we shut even if we cut them down by a couple buses, it's we'd still need all of those that all those buses for transportation.
014>> Yeah. Well, and I think it any attempt to make our runs shorter because we're geographically large would just require adding buses. I mean, you can, you know, I'm I'm thinking, >> um, yeah, it's just that that's what, you know, >> to to get the shorter run, you would just have to run put more buses on the road. Um, and then that frustrates people, right? Because then they see not full school buses driving around. >> So, yeah. So, Andrea, actually, >> but I bet I bet I bet I bet there's some way that we they could be efficient even with the current number of buses. I bet. I mean I mean this is just like the nature of a lot of these things, right? Like the route is the route. It's been the route for
015I don't know 10 years, 15 years. Like who's do they re-examine? How often do they reexamine the route? >> Every year. >> No, they they will rebuild the routes every year depending on where kids live. >> Okay. Though Andrea, we were actually mistaken because I found a study that said that even a 30 minute shift is beneficial for adolescence. and they uh highlighted a a high school in Princeton that in from in um beginning in 2019 2020 school year they shifted their school start time from 7:50 to 8:20 and they saw tardiness drop by 37% and teachers reporting that students were more awake and that students felt better and that the GPA were up. >> So we need the hour in between. We need the hour in between for the buses to get from one
016school district to another school district. Correct or no? >> I think that's what a transportation study would tell us too. >> Cuz remember, we actually don't quite have the hour in between if you look at what time our school day is starting and what time the elementary day is starting. It's actually slightly less than an hour to begin with. Um, and it's particularly harder on the end of the day run, but we also tend to have fewer kids on our buses at the end of the day because so many are involved in afterchool activities. So, I don't think it takes quite as long. Um, I don't want us to lose sight of the fact we only have about 20 minutes left. um and that you that I still think really we can talk about studies
017and we can talk about transportation studies, but that's the work that comes after meeting with the superintendants and gauging where their boards are going to be. So, I I'd like to bring us back to really talking about what is this committee's strategy to pitch the idea of talking about school start time changes to the elementary districts. And Donna, I have the one point you said, why are we doing this? So, I think we need to kind of keep on building off of that idea. Um, so that you can put together whatever your pitch is going to be. >> Um, how long do we have? >> Um, I would recommend not more than 5 to 10 minutes. And I'm really going to implore that you do not give them a PowerPoint. Give them an infographic. Give
018them a bulleted summary list. Give them anything, but do not take them through a PowerPoint. >> How about like a three slide PowerPoint? No, >> like three slides. >> Um, you guys can do what you're it's your committee. You can do whatever you want. No, I mean I guess I I I get it like nobody wants to sit through like a 10-minute but like three slides to aid the discussion like images, figures or something with like that's why I was going to think an infographic because the other thing is they can take an infographic and bring it back. Yes. And you can't take the PowerPoint necessarily. >> So I think that's probably a better strategy. >> Okay. >> And they Yeah. Right. And they can they can write their names. I mean basically you know
019getting enough sleep is vital for all academic health uh success and health of all students. So we don't you know even if it's a slight shift in having um you know if we can if we can get gain a half an hour and the elementary school can shift a little bit and we just have to gauge if they're interested before I I definitely think that the next steps would be a transportation study and then reviewing the contracts just letting them know that we would be the ones doing the work and they would be invited to be a part of this and get get updates as well. So, I think that's also uh important to include. But the whole reason we're doing this is just because we want to have a school start time that is
020better for adolescence for their learning, their academic performance, um their engagement, >> and it does to Carol's point, it benefits the their students who will eventually um age up into the Amity district as well. But >> I I think we also have to hook them with like something to do with like um like cost. Um and I'm happy to to think to think about this um >> uh with you Donna um >> and Andrea, but I think those are all good, but I think also too we'll need to think about sort of what what would make them say, you know what, sure, let's explore. We're interested in exploring. um had a serious >> and and I do want us to be cautious because like you know I I pointed out sort of the challenges with
021some of the teacher contracts at the last meeting. AMD would not take responsibility for reviewing those contracts. Those are their legal documents. They would have to be part of this process and they would have to commit some time and um labor um to doing some of this work. It can't just be all amidity. And I and I don't think you want it to be because again that comes across as us being the strong arm as us kind of not inviting them to the table as part of those discussions. So I I think you know sort of saying like you know something like a transportation study AMD would be take responsibility for that but that we would still when the time came to present the findings so to say um that they would be invited to
022that we wouldn't just be the purveyor of the information and use the decision without sharing that with them. Um, but we do have to be a little careful because it will be work on their part. Um, >> right. But we but we're here to collaborate and find the best solution for our communities, I think would be definitely the message. And if you think if if we decide that we we look at a transportation study and we say, "Okay, we definitely need 50 minutes between bus routes. If we want to do owner operator and stick with that model, um we can definitely look at okay, it doesn't mean that AMD has to start at 8:30. It could be a little later. It could be 8:15. It it would still give some somehow that we could still
023work around and be flexible. We don't have a definite uh start time or uh identified I guess is the best way. It's not saying okay we need to start at 8:30. I mean >> I I think that would be important in your infographic is that there that that as of right now it's not like we're going in with an end goal already in mind. Um, I think you want to sort of express that you really don't have, it doesn't have to be 8:30. It doesn't have to be a flip-flop or anything like that, right? I, you know, we speculated, but I think you want to make your presentation appear that you have not already made decisions that it's honestly going to be a conversation, a study, collaborate, collaboration, all of those good things that you
024just said. And you know um and and and again that understanding like we talked about last time that the four of us are in this together and we can't make decisions independent of how it impacts the others, >> right? That's something that we we all benefit from this especi you know there are if if we have our adolescence going to school later and you can stagger too. you there's there's we're open to options, you know, staggering middle school and high school and with with the elementary schools. Um we want to benefit everyone in the community. >> I think one thing that um came to mind too is that like another like sort of point in the pitch is it might be beneficial to all of our communities in terms of like uh student you know
025long longer term increased performance, right? And so that also attracts people to like our community. So I think that's another thing to to consider. >> Yeah. I mean I it's I don't know how beneficial it is but it just says you know I found something that says for decades uh starting school after 8:30 has been a standard for many countries and you know Finland, Japan, New Zealand, Australia, England which all outperform the US in the international student achievement tests and actually apparently we work we rank worst in sleep deprivation. So um you know it it it's sort of changing the mindset to be doing to making choices and around school that's best for students and their academic performance and athletic. You know you talk about injuries um and mental health, car crashes, things that do
026actually require focus and attention from them when we when we have them on the roads and out earlier in the morning. Um, you know, there are they they they could have en enrichment opportunities, but definitely having older students home could be beneficial in the morning that it wouldn't impede um work schedules. I think that's also going to have to be a concern for for people of um you know there's a big shift to be later for the elementary schools. Just keeping that in mind. Oh, you lost one of your committee members. So you no longer have a quorum at the moment. >> Oh no. Okay. All right. So, do we stop? Do we pause? Do we wait till she gets back on? She might have hit a dead zone. >> Yeah. Yeah, she probably did.
027Um, I think we can give a a quick little pause. There she is coming back. >> I don't know what happened, but my phone just shut off. >> Oh, well, technology is great as long as it works. >> Yeah. Um, anyway, I Sorry, I missed what you were saying. Um, so I know we're like uh coming close to time, but yes. Um, so I I'm happy to like um connect with a librarian to just get a more to get a comprehensive like list of um articles and to sort of see like how if they haven't, you know, to highlight some of the main findings specifically for middle and high school and then I think we can think about sort of, you know, we mentioned lots of points today that we uh mention. Um but yeah,
028we can just strategize and think about like >> what those talking points are, >> right? So I you know what I I just something I I told Jen I put something together and I just said something says let's explore this together. U we're inviting uh you know our schools our elementary school superintendent across our region to join a collaborative regional exploration of how we can responsibly shift adolescent school start times. So what I would suggest to do is um I I I think somebody has to take responsibility for getting the infographic or the content of the infographic started. Um because making one isn't that hard once you have the content. Um I think Donna if you BCC share that with the other members of the committee they can give you feedback. Okay. >> So that
029by our our October 27th meeting, we have an actual draft of what that is going to be. And then we can use that meeting to give to do edits and to think about what the persuasive pres, you know, persuasive conversation is going to be to go along with that handout, so to speak. >> So would I just send it to you and then BCC them or how would that work? Um, no, just BCC everybody. >> Okay. >> So, so, so draft it up and then just blind copy everyone on the committee. So, so >> so you and Tom? >> Yeah, me and Tom. But then also Andrea, Carol, and Kathy, >> right? >> So that way >> nobody can res right. Nobody can respond as a group. >> We can just we can just discuss
030during the 27th. Well, yes, we can discuss it, but I think that way people can add ideas, they can give feedback, and then we'll have information that can be converted to that that infographic and then we can bring it up and discuss it on the 27th. >> Okay. Um All right. I don't want to I don't want to do it incorrectly, so I will just BCC I'll send it to myself and BCC everybody. >> How's that? >> There you go. >> Okay. Sure. Um Yeah. So, I can send it. It It does say draft on it. It just um I just wrote it up really quick. So, any thoughts and ideas? It is ends up being about two pages. >> Is this something that's going to be sent to them ahead or or a invitation
031or like >> No, it's it's our regular meeting. um we meet once a month and so they just asked for simplicity because our schedules are very difficult to manage if the amity board could come to that meeting and so they know it's it's coming. Um so they're they're aware of it. It's it's not going to catch them by surprise. >> Okay. Okay. Great. >> All right. Sounds good. >> Okay. Um anything else? Anyone have anyone anything else to add? Okay. So, we will adjourn our meeting at 4:51. >> Yep. And our next meeting is the 27th at four o'clock by Zoom. >> Yes. By Zoom. >> Okay. >> Thank you everyone. Just be on the lookout and I will send it. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you for leading this Donna.
032Thank you. Thanks, Jen. >> Yes. Thank you, Donna.