Regional School District #19 Budget Workshop Meeting March 10

001Are you good to go? We're good to go. All right, everybody. We're good to go in this budget workshop. >> Wrap up your conversations. >> Okay, >> I know. I know. We need parties. >> Hi, Morgan. Hi, Amanda. >> All right. So, when last we met, we um we went through the budget presentation. I'm not going to go through all of that again unless you really want me to. I really don't have anything changed. The only thing that I do have um to share um is a couple of versions of the levy with minor alterations um based on some savings. Oh, lost Amanda. Okay. So, she's just still there. So, that's good. >> Um, some savings that Amanda had found in MRS. So, if you had looked through your budget and you noticed that there

002was a contingency line um for MS for $24,000 um we only needed to hold on to about 4,000 of that that we then needed to hold on to just a little bit more of that because there was a line is the municipal employees >> retirement. Yeah. >> Savings. MERS >> for for our non unionized folks. So their it's their retirement fund. Um so that was put into the budget before those numbers were solid. So that contingency was in there so we weren't caught um in a deficit with that fund. So the numbers did come in and they came in lower than was needed with that $24,000. So um some of that money we can put back into um the budget as a savings. Um, that's a deduction. What? >> Um, it was a duct deduction.

003Let me show you. I'm going to throw it up on the That sounds terrible. I'm going to put it up. You guys see that at home? Okay. So Amanda sends me an editable levy which is super helpful that allows them to play with the numbers. So this is our original levy that shows us where we were at the 3.67. That's kind of what I presented last time. And then I'm able to play with options. You all saw those last year where Alan was just laughing saying, "Are we up to like double A, double B, double C or both of those options?" We're not going there this year. Um, but what we can see in this version is a $20,000 savings from the MERS. So, we took a $20,000 savings from that because we didn't need

004the full 24. We just needed um 4,000 of that to remain. And then we took um insurance from some of the from the reductions um in the in the um salary positions that were reduced. we didn't include the insurance savings from those um positions. So there's a savings when um those salaried folks take insurance. So we included that this calculation. >> So that's 21,840. So it's a 41,840 reduction that we that we're able to take um out of the gate. So that's just a um a shift that we're able to make here which is going to bring an automatic reduction. So now our bottom line number without um you know any painful reductions is uh 3.5 gross >> 3.5 >> a 2.41 net >> those previous productions were based on uh plan requirements. the previous

005some of >> you were talking about salary and benefits reductions were >> yeah some of them were um planned retirements some of them were um they were reductions for a variety of reasons so um some of those reductions we would be talking about in executive session some of those reductions were so like we know that we've had retirements so um Denise's position that point4 position was a retirement point8 eight um PE position was a position where we have a staff person who's going to remain as a point two but um similar situations that she has this year. She's working um for Eastern and so she's she's um maintaining her two position here but she's staying there. So we're um keeping that deal with her >> um for next year. Um I'd have to go back

006to the slide to look at the other ones. um the BTE position that we budgeted for this year and that we had a person in that position. We have had it posted for to fill haven't been able to fill it and we have actually been um been able to cover the course with the cert we had talked about the fact that we have a certified person in math who is CTE certified. So that person has taken over the manufacturing class and is now teaching the math for manufacturing and the manufacturing class because he holds the appropriate certification. So, we've been able to be creative um with our certifications in order to get there. So, I can >> What is How does it I mean, I know it's just more, but how does that change the

007percentages for the three >> for the So, for the three towns, we've got we we're down now for Asheford is a 3.7. We go back to the original levy, it was at a 3.9. Okay. >> Um, Mansfield was 2.15, now it is 1.95 and Ashford or I'm sorry, Willington is 2.45 now and it was 2.65 numberwise. So Willington was 128528 and now it is 118927. That's for Willington. >> So just because I we can't what are the actual then dollar amounts? >> Yep. >> Okay. So the new dollar amounts for Asheford the new dollar amounts for Asheford is 154207. That's a new dollar amount. 154207. Mansfield is 237343 and Willington is 118927. >> Sorry, numbers were what? >> Yeah. What are we? >> Those are increases or something. >> They're decreases. >> Oh, they're the

008decrease. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Right. Okay. >> Was it was it looking at the bigger number going dollar term? >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So now with that all said Amanda or Morgan, can you unmute for me because I forgot to check if we can hear you. >> Hello. >> I can hear you. >> Oh, y >> I can't hear you. >> Shoot. >> You can't hear us? >> I can hear you, Amanda. >> I can hear Morgan. >> We heard Morgan before. Did we? Yep. And we heard Amanda. I don't know. >> Yeah, if she was up there. >> Yeah, she was up there, but she I don't know if you >> She's there. She's down there. >> Well, we know they're there, but we can't hear them. >> Yeah, I

009just want Normally I check to see if I can hear them. We could just use the chat. Oh, there we go. We got you. Okay, great. change. >> Yeah. Oh, there it is. Like, where did it all go? It's right over there. >> Yep. It's that teeny tiny little I can't see. Yeah. But the total of all these three, we're back. So I think part of the um conversation last time there were um questions regarding the projections. Amanda is currently working on making some comparisons using real projections of our youth graders and I can let her talk about that a little bit. I know she was waiting on some numbers when we met today. >> Yep. Um, I've gotten the K through eight projections for all three member towns. Um, Sharon staff is working to

010get me a breakout of each town by grade. We're waiting on a couple special ed numbers just to make sure those numbers are accurate and then I'm going to be able to project those out based on what our current enrollment actually is. Um, and then I'm going to take a new look at the five-year projection. I know we talked about looking at those salary lines a little bit and some of the assumptions that go into that. Hoping to have that to you by the end of the week. If not, you'll definitely have it before the next time we meet to talk about budget. >> So, this is the non proud of Amanda projection. >> Yes. >> Got it. >> And I'm happy to share the supporting documentation for the enrollment numbers. >> I'm looking forward

011to that. >> So, Amanda is playing around with the numbers. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We we had a meeting of the um superintendent today, Tuesday, yesterday. Um with similar perspective um the proud of members um everyone was really on the same boat about the fact that um there's questions about that. >> Um and even I I want to say um don't remember if it was Ashford or Mansfield that had it done through PRAA and NASDAQ. Um what was the other one? >> The NASDAQ. >> Oh, okay. >> But the the numbers in general see Oh, no. It was Willington. >> The numbers in Wellington were way off um between those two um those two separate companies that ran the same information. So, um I say that in for the point of all of these numbers

012are projections. Um they are moving targets in general. Um, moving forward when it comes to putting together the budget book, I think we have to make some decisions for the future about what we actually want to include, what what pages and what numbers are actually useful to you all um as a board in making decisions like what's what do we want front facing um in making decisions like what what do we want to know about people expenditure? um how do we want to represent that in a way that's clear and transparent to the community that's actually going to tell them what they need to know and um it may make a be a shift to what historically and traditionally has been included in the book but you know that may not necessarily be the conversation

013that we need to have right now but coming out of budget season you know taking a look at the book and maybe eliminating some of those pages that really don't give us quality information >> we are still planning to have a special retreat Yeah, that's >> because I do think that the with respect to the levy on the town, the towns who are voting in the budget should know what the c what the cost per student is, how it translates to their amount they're paying because that number is a lot higher than the number we were showing in in the earlier page uh it was over 20,000 was over 21. So um yeah I think in the future we need to show that people need to see that. I also think uh and I know

014I just want to reiterate that I also think regardless of whatever else we're doing if we are if what we see shows and I think it will some level of declining enrollment at least over the next several years that we really need to rethink um or we need to think hard about continuing to have um kinds of increases we've seen yeartoear when there's probably more >> I mean we have over 50 I think less this year I mean there are people that could argue that why are we going up at all 50 less students I mean there's good reasons for that but if we go down another 50 you know that 100 is anywhere >> then it becomes >> a really important discussion we'd have to have >> when we presumably saw it come >>

015right right when we I'd say surprise surprise surprise so many years in a row. Right. >> So you said there was a retreat plan for that. >> We talked about talked about as >> instead of trying to change deal with it now do it. >> Yeah. Yeah. What what was the >> I think we were having the discussion about the budget right last time. >> Yeah. >> And I think we were you know you guys were here figuring we were all on Zoom and well I think it was suggested at that point that we just need to go back as a group to the drawing board and say how do we want to restructure this >> outside of this year's budget. Totally agree. So whether that happens >> spring fall or whatever there is that

016October one date. So at some point that would be like another time to sort of >> okay what did we get for the October >> I would like to have it happen soon after a check in on yeah we can look at the structure and then recheck in at that point say okay based on the crowded numbers the numbers actual numbers what are we looking at >> yeah I think I think spring I think spring makes more reasonable sense to at least get started >> structure yeah but I think beyond that I mean what's important is I want in the sense of where that team came from. But I'm really interested to see what Amanda says. And I we don't even like >> we're getting way ahead of ourselves in having that conversation doing that

017retreat. I mean, I'd be very interested to see what Manda comes up with and what it is where that 115 came from. >> Well, even if it's half that number, though, it would be significant based on >> Well, yeah, I would be very interested to see what the layout is. >> And that's why I think it is really important not to let that slide of what we really have to start discussions. >> All right. And sorry um the 115 is the enrollment number right next year. >> There was there was some projection that showed that right and we're betting that accurate >> that I I wanted to make an observation because I I can still remember what it was like not to be on the board. And so like I wanted to talk about um

018so uh when last I I think was a month ago or so when we were talking about this um there was uh you know I I saw that there was the the you know the total amount for um for the budget and then uh and I was while I was sitting there I did this um I did the math you know the the enrollment is at the bottom of the page, right? And so the budget, the full budget is at the top, the enrollment is at the bottom. And I did this little math while it was sitting there like the per pupil number. And I was thinking um you know, but I was looking at the projections like going up about 3% every year, which kind of makes sense because you know, it's not like

019even if there's fewer students, it's not like the building costs less. It's not like um >> salaries is less or anything. So I It makes sense. I mean, just even like being a homeowner, I know that, you know, you know, there's >> moved out. >> It doesn't matter, right? So, like, you know, maybe your groceries are >> But um but no, so I was I was thinking is there a way because you know about because like the the the enrollment is wild like I mean it's it's going to go up and down and actually it's been going down for years. And so I was thinking, is there a way or I don't know if this is like state statute or anything. Is there a way to remove the enrollment from that total budget or is

020that just ludicrous >> as a number meaning >> in other words? Well, it's just that I mean it's not exactly on here that way. Although if you if you flip some pages eventually you get to like per pupil number. >> Yeah. But I was just thinking like that's um maybe we're like >> I think this is all that structural budget conversation that we want to have because yeah >> there there's some things I think baked into what men does is sort of cost of living adjustments on the top line that are not really connected to the numbers down below. Right. So right >> maybe we can figure out a way to connect them in some way. >> What's that? >> Well they are. It's a matter of how much they're there's definitely a re there's

021definitely a connected right. It's just to what degree they are, right? Is it a fraction of it? You know, it's not linear. It's not like they go down exactly, but some um and at some level, right? It's sort of incremental. You can't like taper and you know, quarter keych because we're we are you know there's no rolling averages yet or anything like you know maybe in the future we'll have rolling averages and it won't be something but like right now. >> So that won't fix this problem. It's not gonna fence, but I think the per people number we were talking about is like that high number that won't really be affected. But this is all Yeah, it's all good stuff. And it's interesting you bring an observation. You haven't sort of been looking at it

022from that perspective because I think that's what you've been bringing up too is that's very bringing up for a couple of years. We continue having declining enrollment and we and we see pretty significant budget increases. It starts to beg the question of you start needing to look closer at class size and the I mean >> I hate to say that at some point you have to start looking at those numbers. >> Yeah. Well, I want well, I wanted to point out though that when I when I did the number per turnable uh number, like if I took the if I did the inverse and I took the the lower uh the lower enrollment number and then multiplied it by like last year's I don't anyway the like the budget would go down like $3 million

023or something. In other words, like it's an impossibility. There's no way that student cost. >> It's not it's not a equivalency thing, but but if you have I mean just going to throw this out. If for some reason you have a hundred less students, I don't see how you can write a budget over a million dollars. So I mean those are the types of things we have to pay. that that's pretty extreme example, but it was based on some pro some projections that were out there that people saw and they're going to go crazy because you know you have 100 those people and you're going up a million bucks. We can't do that. So, we have to figure out how to fix that and understand what's going on. Well, and I think I mentioned to

024Sharon, I think one of the things that we, you know, and this is for this later discussion, I think in some ways we have to try to simplify the presentation because I believe and I'm not trying to I'm not trying to disparrage anybody. I just think that when we give people too much information, it's overload. Information overload. And people don't want that. People say, you know, my my groceries are going up. I want to pay less of my my taxes. This is going to make my, you know, my my yearly taxes go through the roof. >> And I don't want to vote for it. >> And I need to just see the simple, you know, what? Yeah. Just clear clear English because I think we overwhelm people and they're not, you know, and we overwhelm

025the our director. overwhelm other people in our, you know, in the offices and trying to try to get the feeling. >> I think we need to capture in some way what I'm kind of hearing is we need to figure out a way to capture the reality, which is to Greg's point, which is um it costs a certain amount of money to run the district. That doesn't change regardless of the number of students. you know, we are we've reduced staff this year based on the class size. And to the point that Amanda made last in the last meeting was the reductions that we've made this year based on class size wasn't based on a reduction wasn't based on the reductions that I'm seeing this projected year. It was based on probably five years of slow decreases

026in enrollment over time that now has gotten us to a place where over several um disciplines over several um subjects, we can take a reduction of of a a staff person. >> Um because >> over the last five years or so um because there are courses that are below or have enrollments less than 10. So that see if that that was my age less than 10. Now there that comes at a cost, a different cost, not a not a financial cost, but a programmatic cost. And so those are the conversations that we need to have around um you know, we can say we can't sustain, you know, a million dollar increase in our budget at that 3% to run the building and pay our staff. But what happens to further to enrollment if we allow

027our program to be damaged so much >> that we become unattractive >> that we continue to then lose more students to magnet schools, tech schools or you know th those pieces. So where's that >> where's that balance? The goal is let's attract more kids to the district which so that we can maintain the high quality programs and even grow them. >> I think that's what we even try to do. But I think what's happened is with these projections we show in the budget every year that show declining enrollments and bigger than people are willing to accept increases just as numbers >> that that confuses the issue. That's why we have to >> present things different. We have to we have to get our arms around it because we know that's a very complicated process. It's

028not just a process, a question of it. It it costs this much to run the school whether we have 800 or 900 or thousand students. There's there are certain things that are affected by the number of students, but a lot of things that are. >> And I think that the way we've presented data in the past has kind of skewed that towards a kind of a false. >> Yeah. But can I also say though, I mean, last >> Can you hear me? >> Oh, Morgan. Yeah. I would say just I mean we had a big increase last year for Ashford. >> Hold on Morgan. We got to increase the volume. We can't hear you. >> That's it. >> Can you hear me? >> Sound bar isn't connected. >> Hold on. We're working on the technology.

029>> I'm happy to shout. I can do that. >> Hold on. Can you hear me now? >> Nick on. >> Okay. >> Keep talking so we can tell. >> Okay, I'll keep talking. Um, you can see >> your selection change. >> How's it working now? >> It's good. >> No, not good. Not >> good. Okay, I can write. I can't write >> coming out of the back of the machine. >> Can you check and check here? >> I can also >> Does someone just want to repeat it for me? >> All right. Are you using it though? >> Bluetooth. >> Is it one of these other ones? >> Hey, Sharon. Sharon. All I wanted to say was I think that the >> the concerns are just not not just about the projections. It's about, you

030know, what happened in Asheford last year with the big >> Yeah. Hold on. Hold on one second, Morgan. They're just they're you keep muting in and out because they're playing we're we're playing with the >> Okay, >> we're determined here, Morgan. Yeah, >> I'm gonna forget what I can. >> I basically wanted to see what the other options were. >> All those tried all that. Yeah, we can try but >> real tech audio. >> Which one? >> But yeah, I mean it's same as what we're using now. >> It's weird because I feel like they could hear me when I talked. >> Well, we can barely >> Okay. Yeah, it's weird. Anyway, I guess lesson learned about the audio on the Zooms. Um, I hate to dra I hate to slow everything down. I was

031trying to speed it up. >> Now I can't hear anything. >> I can't hear anything. No. Oh no. >> Oh no. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Maybe we just need to leave and come back. Can they um Do you have Sharon's phone number? >> Yeah, I'm gonna text her. >> Yeah, I'm just gonna text I'll just text Deb and say we'll leave and come back and um Yeah. Can you hear us now? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Did we touch this down here? >> We can hear you. >> Can you hear us? >> But tell you're paying the same. So if you don't have kids and you're in this town, >> can you hear us now? Yeah. The rate. >> Can you hear us? Do >> it now. >> All right. Try now. >> Whether your

032neighbor has eight kids that >> hear us now. >> There you go. We just need you to yell. >> Okay. Okay. >> There's a point at which we just have to run school and we have to show just may need to repeat the question. >> You're sitting next to the speaker. >> I'm just going to try to talk now. >> Yeah. So, I will just make it really brief. I I think the issue is not just the projections, it's just generally declining enrollment. I mean, this year we have increased revenues um and declining enrollment and yet we're still projecting, we're just still, you know, proposing an increase. So, I think we just need to really get our arms around that in a retreat. And so, I was going to ask Sharon to share some of

033the other options with us so we could see what what we have to work with. >> Did you guys hear that? >> Yeah. >> Other options as in cuts. Do you mean? >> Well, it looks on the spreadsheet like there are other options. See option one, option two. >> Yeah. >> Do we There's some >> Do we have those tonight or is that next week's >> So I can show you some. Um I don't want to talk about because we we talked last time about >> here. We can't want to know the different options that exist. >> Okay. >> Yeah. because there's Yeah. Well, she said there's different options at the bottom. So, she's asking about those options, which is a wonderful question. >> Okay. >> Because there are options. >> Um those some the

034options are connected to um I'll I'll show you option two. I may not be ready to talk about some of the other options because they might be connected to positions. And we talked about that last time that if we're going to talk about positions, there's pros and cons to doing that, >> right? Yeah. There's a there's a bunch of things pending that >> right affect those decisions. >> Correct. So this option too is if we decided that we really didn't want to do summer athletics. So that is a not a have to have but it's a nice to have and it was something that was important to the um board last year. Um not necessarily as a whole but at least to some board members. Last year >> you heard um Dan's proposal >> um

035or his his presentation. Y >> there were there was data that supported that there were some good things that came out of it. There was some data that said there were some concerns about it. So really it is up to the board as to whether or not that's something that wants to that should continue. That would bring us to a reduction of $71,840. If we look back up, I gota stop touching. Um that with everything then is >> that with that's with the other other two items as well. So that's everything combined. So, sure. >> This is an addition. >> That's in addition to the 20,000. Yep. So, yeah. And I'm forgetting that you can't see this down in the bottom. >> You zoom in. >> I can, but then it'll probably turn into a

036little teeny tiny thing on the page. Um, >> oh, I think they probably see. >> Yeah. So, it includes the 20,000 in MS. >> Yeah. >> The 21840 in insurance and the 30,000 in summer athletics. That's already budgeted and operating right now. >> So, if you reduced that, it would bring us it would get a 718.40 in reductions. That's growling happening there. Do you hear that? I'm letting it out. >> That was growling. >> She told me I need to let it out. So that gets us to a 338 gross a 227 net. So 338227 and then for Ashford their number would now be reduced to 148234 and their percent increase is 3.56. >> Sharon, is that right? Yeah, that's so I don't see how it could go down 148 when we're only taking down

037two. Right down to what? >> That's the further decrease. It's not >> It was 154. Now it's 148. >> Less. >> It's less. >> 148 is the is the lower increase from the previous. >> Could you lower? Okay. >> We went from like 170 to 160 to 14. >> Okay. Okay. >> In terms of the increase over in dollar terms, >> right? Thank goodness because the machine does the work for me and you would have to make me do math. >> So could you just go through option one cost per town? >> Hold on one second. I I will. Okay. Well, option one is our province. >> And then there's two additional options >> and there's two additional options. So the So >> option one on there is different than the web, >> right? Option

038one. Yep. Option one is different than >> so we got the OG. >> Yep. So option one option one would have gotten us to 3.5%. >> Overall. >> Yeah. So option one was a total decrease of 41840. That was just the 20k MS and the 21840 insurance for a total of 41840. That was option one. That got us to a 3.5 gross and a 2.41 net. That got Ashford to 3.7 dollars. It was 154207 for Ashford. >> Do you have the total like not the change but just the total number like >> I do. Do you want me to finish going through these first or do you want me just you want me to jump up to the total proposed amount? >> I'd like the total at some point, but if you're doing something like

039>> No, I I I'll give you what you want. >> Just the total. So, the total cost per town for option one as it's seen on the screen and then option two that we're looking at right now. >> The total cost per town. So, not the change >> correct >> per town is. So for Ashford it's 4,317319. Okay. >> For Mansfield it's 12 million 390 949. >> Okay. >> And for Willington it's 4975 893. >> And that's option one. >> That's option one. >> Okay. And at revision one there's a change. >> Right. Yeah. It's revision one. the 41840 reduction. >> Yep. >> And then this is option two. >> But that's with losing the summer summer athletics. >> That's option one. >> That's option two. Option two loses summer. Option one loses Option one

040doesn't really lose anything. Option one is kind of not even an option. Option one is like the new person who found some savings. So those levies, they were for option one. >> Those were option one levies that I just read off to Nick. >> So you'll figure out option two after >> option two levies are right here. So option two levy is um for Ashford it's 4,311 346. Mansfield levy is 12 million 373 806. Willington levy is 4 million 969 >> to me and this is just me. This doesn't seem to be much of a drop at home. >> It's small. No, it's small money. >> I mean like I don't even know that you didn't make a case for >> Well, I think the case would not be based on the budget. It would

041be based on whether >> given what we heard from we want to continue. Well, for option one, it's not making a case. It's just just truly option one. Option one is just happen. Yeah. Yeah. Option one is, you know, we found some savings. That's the new Yeah. That's our our new base. Um >> Yeah. And we, you know, we we kind of knew going in that that number was either going to that MS number was either going to stay the same, it was going to increase, or it was going to decrease. So, we were happy that it decreased that we were able to take a savings there. >> That's not even shifted away, right? division right so >> but that that reduction is not substantial even with the loss in the summer >> no no

042>> no I mean it's a gesture >> gestures would be good right now you know I think what was very well I I will say and I don't know how other people felt about this but you know Tony pointed out too >> there were reports that were sent by um there's a couple additional documents that were sent to all of us. Um it was just on >> huh on the map >> about you know who was uh who was you know achieving who was greater than you know and by town. Um, I think the challenge in Ashford, I don't know how it is in Wilmington and Mansfield, but the challenge in Asheford is that for every dollar we spend here, we're not spending it. >> Yep. >> And we keep reducing that Ashford budget. So

043that that disparity >> concerns me. It gets wider. It doesn't get smaller. >> It gets wider. the resources I don't think are there to to even help to sustain or bring up or help to you know at least establish um more courses um more rigor whatever you want to call it it you know that's that's my concern so we start to we're playing the game >> that's fair >> and Ashford's a partner and is pay and and and I think it's important that Ashford Willington and Manser we're paying for the capital budget we're paying for the f you know the um the other pound step. So you know even my question starts to become too when we look at what we charge when people are sending students here that um are we charging too little

044but then we want to stay competitive >> well right but we're also not charging for transportation and for special ed services. I think the other thing that we have to the other thing we have to remember >> and I think I brought this up last time but we also don't want to dwell on it too >> we don't want to dwell on it too much >> right right >> is we've never really broken down or had conversations about >> about the different programs >> right >> that are offered and the um how what the breakdown is you know you know we know that it varies from year to year how many students from Asheford, Willington or Mansfield are out placements that impact our special education program. There are and you know from year to year

045there are more expensive outplacements from the individual towns depending >> right >> there are more students in you know at at DEFA >> um as a as a per people expenditure in a program that's more um individualized >> in from one town than the other. We're a little balanced in that this year. There were a few years where there was definitely um you know one town there than the other town. It ends up in the end very much balancing out. >> Um same with the star program. >> Yeah. >> And so I think we just have to be careful with all of that. In the end it all balances out. Do you live here? >> I heard audio death from participants please. Um >> audio check. >> Yeah. Could we could we have somebody on

046mute and >> Hello. Is that working? >> Yes. Okay. ending. Hello, >> I would like to add one other thing to that and and this is this is because it came up one of my early years on the board. >> In addition to those programs, we also have um advanced programs that many people can't take advantage of. It's largely town driven. And one of my early years on the board, the actual there was an actual proposal put on the table to cut back the depot program in order to continue some of those advanced programs that that Yukon was saying they we were going to have to pay for. Now, it turned out that we called their beloved. It didn't happen, right? >> But that discussion was kind of ugly. >> Yeah, it was. Yeah. And

047I you know so that's another factor that don't want to talk about it too much but it has to be considered >> right and and it's you know when we talk about acceleration which we've talked a lot about especially with the MAD presentation that acceleration piece um really came into discussion specifically around our data that that shows um disparity between opportunity for some of our member towns and some of the students from our member towns based on the programs that are able to be offered for a lot of the reasons that we're talking about right now in regards to the funding that they have available. >> I think a fair question around that though is connected to the enrollment drops to say we dropped more than the depot enrollment. Why aren't they here and why

048are we renting another building? Right? I think that's a legitimate question and we can talk about the pros and cons of that. I think that is a legitimate question to be discussed not maybe for this year but it it needs to be >> that's from a a financial standpoint not taking into account all the other reasons but right >> yeah but there's a pros and cons of that. I think there's both. It's not like everything's negative and it's just a financial call. he can talk about it, but I think that is a fair thing to bring up and something that I think we should get ahead of, >> okay, >> and be thinking about because it would be a legitimate question someone might ask. Why are we have this building the building group when you

049have so much more room here? I'm put that in quotes. Um, that kind of thing. So, you got to look at all options here. >> I I agree in the future because right now I'm not aware of any spare rooms. >> Yeah. here. >> But but from an external perspective, you are not managing I'm just say you're not managing the building correctly if you're down a 100 kids and there are no spare rooms, right? It's sort of a >> you go from 17 kids in class to 15.6. >> Well, I'm just saying it's just it's a absolutely a fair question. We should be not pushing back in that question. Yeah. Okay. Yep. We should have thought of that and and I think we're ready to answer if we if we don't if we're not going

050to do that, we should have an answer for >> sure. So I think all all of these things as we as we kind of create the list of conversation for the retreat I think those are all things that you know we do have to have answers for. >> Can I add one more thing? Sorry jabbering but one I think it would be useful to have to be able to differentiate um costs you know it's a little tricky but cost of content and increases I cost on the cost of living from what we're buying right so I'm buying less bananas but they're more expensive. Okay, those are two different things, right? The kid moved out, grocery bills down, but everything's more expensive. And so it didn't go down >> because the cost went up. We're actually

051eating less. You know what I'm saying? So you can it might be a way to as we talk about presenting this to differentiate the things that went up in cost and to show that well, yes, we're we're finding ways to use less or whatever it might be in proportion, but yet costs are gone up. >> So So we can do that. I think one of the things that um when you look at our departments >> and you look at their stuff and you see over over the few over the the whole time that I've been here. This is my sixth budget. I just kind of thought about that today. This is my sixth budget. The first one was so easy. Um really was. We just came out of COVID. We were swimming in swimming in

052COVID money. Um but um over the years >> You mean like supply costs? >> The supply costs. Yeah. Over the years >> um I've asked every department to come in flat >> and do not ask for more money for your stuff, please. Unless it's absolutely necessary. Like if you need books, that's different than stuff. Um that has a different line, right? Um, so for their materials, for the most part, they've remained relatively flat. We know that the cost of all those materials, especially this year, tariffs, all of that stuff, have gone up. >> You look at Dennis's Dennis's lines have gone up a little bit because his costs have gone up so much that he couldn't absorb all of those costs completely. So it's a it's a really good point. But just by the nature

053of you know when you look at all of those lines not having increased at all over the past six years they have absorbed they've done more with less for the past six years in their in their um content lines >> um of their materials. Even in the even in the food lines for culinary it's amazing what he's been able to do with his food lines and culinary. I think we need to talk about all those things because I don't think we have >> to the degree we need to because in the current year budget we really can't but that's why having a retreat will help >> because we do need to talk about all those things. >> Yeah. I mean rising costs, tariffs, I mean those have to be factored in. >> You almost need

054a public um you know a public packet you know that that >> compresses all this stuff into understandable pieces. PR. >> That's a good I think that's a good point. But with the cost of living though, >> I know we have to talk about it to some degree, but how valid are we going to be? You look at what's happening right now. I mean, like our prediction of what that's going to be >> or the enrollment cost of living cost of living. >> Yeah. >> Because, you know, when I say I guess I didn't make myself real clear. I said I don't think we ought to bring it up. That's not exactly what I mean. But I don't know how we can be accurate with that. >> It would be a huge effort to have

055to be like fully sort of accounting accurate. >> Yes. >> But but maybe we just pick some a couple areas just to sort of samples of saying >> just pick a few just to show I mean I don't there's no I don't think you're right. We can't you everything some things don't go up. Some go up more than others. Yeah, >> part of the story we got to be able to >> like the consumer price index, right? The consumer price index is based on a certain selection of things, not everything, >> right? >> Call that analogy, >> right? >> So, and Amanda, the the consumer price index or is that different than the index that we use to >> price index >> increase? >> You're muted. >> Our tuition is based on what's included in

056our budget. >> No. So, but the number that um is it Lucenne? No, it's um >> who? >> Patricia, >> thank you. Um the number that she gets in the fall to generate the percentage increase to our for our tuition. There are a couple contracts that do go with CPI and then there's a couple where we calculate it annually based on the approved budget. Again, some of those towns have different agreements set up, >> but that would be the number that we're using for those tuition rates. >> Right. So, the CPI this year was four just under 4%, wasn't it? >> Yep. >> Correct. That was the that that's the percentage increase for that's Colombia, Eastford, Union. >> Yep. The ones that have agreements go back to the CPI and then there's a couple that

057we calculate on an annual basis. >> I do think it's correct to say though the amount our our supplies haven't gone up. Your drivers are salary. Your drivers are health insurance. Your drivers are utilities. It's not the supplies that are causing the increases. >> Well, I don't think there was a focus on supplies because we could even look at health insurance and show that it went up. We're not consuming more of it. It just went up, right? So, I think those are all fair example. We weren't meant to focus on supplies, you know, >> utilities is Yeah. But salaries are that's one that's >> that's actually it's twothird of the total budget roughly, right? So >> um yeah that I mean I'm not sure that that's understood exactly and that >> to a great degree

058contractually out of our control right >> the only way it's in our control is when we replace a senior person who leaves someone right when we renegotiate >> in the structure of directors and who are non-eing faculty right so you have a couple right >> um courses missing right >> just as A typical teacher teach >> five >> most science teaches um four and a lab >> and the director salaries are how much more than the than a sort of say staff person >> they are I think at 124 and the highest teacher salary I'm trying I don't have them off the top I had the highest teacher salary is that's a sixth year. So, we don't have a a a lot of um >> Oh, that's not true. We do PhDs. We have PhDs

059in our science department. I think PhDs this year is um one nine. >> And how many classes do directors teach? >> They don't. They Well, they can if we need them to. They can teach one up to one class if they need to. >> And we have how many directors? Four. that aren't part plus the special ed there's special ed director there's the director of school counseling and there's the athletic director >> when did the directors come on board like when did that that shift happen >> they were here before I got here >> the shift in their not teaching that part >> happened >> four years ago five years ago >> and why was that for >> that was because there was um a shift in oversight for evaluation. >> That's what I was

060thinking is the evaluation. So there because those four do >> they do well there was also a shift in so what was happening was there was there was inconsistency in instructional oversight. Part of that was because >> the assistant principles and and the principal were largely responsible for um evaluating a good number of the staff. It's all a really great idea until there's an emergency or you know something that has to happen and you have this great evaluation plan and or pre-conference or postconference and you get called away and it has to process has to start all over again. So there was really inconsistency in the evaluation process. >> There was approximately 100 teachers. >> Well yeah 108 110 somewhere around there. And what this allowed and so the directors then consolidated and took over

061oversight of additional departments. So science took over um oversight of health and PE and CTE. Um social studies took over oversight of world language because the department heads that got a small stipend weren't evaluators. they kind of took care of budget and like would run fac would run department meetings. Um and over time we've kind of absorbed those and even more so this year um as part of the budget my last budget presentation um you can see with the world language that position is being absorbed um and let's see so where was I social studies absorbed world language math absorbed CTE and >> arts >> English does fine arts so music and art uh so that's when that happened so they basically took took on a couple different departments and now they evaluate everyone and

062they don't necessarily get called away. It's much more consistent oversight. They also help out with their PLC's so they're present in their PLC's more consistently throughout the day. It's just more um effective and consistent leadership that they're able to provide. >> And how many department heads? Um we now right now this year >> there's world language and PE and egg. >> So three and >> next year there will be two. There will be PE and egg. You have to have egg. >> Yeah. That's a given classes. >> They teach classes. They teach four classes. >> And what's right now? They can teach they can teach three or four. Right now they all teach one. >> What's the department head uh salary? >> Um off the top of my head it's like 124 I think. >>

063Same as directors. >> Oh I'm sorry. No department head are there teachers? It's their teacher salary plus a 72. Next year it would be $7,200. >> So $200. Yeah. No, I think personally from historically, you know, and this is before Sharon and before Shill and this is going back a ways, but you know, evaluations are something that, you know, most people don't like to do. >> And there were there were teachers that, you know, instructors very good, but also who never got evaluated. You know, nobody ever got into their classroom. And so, it was a historic thing that I think that really needed to be taken care of. Well, especially given the state mandates around how evaluation is supposed to be >> and that got thrown in. Yeah. So, yeah, that was always >> it

064was pretty much a free-for-all. It was impossible to evaluate everybody. >> Yeah. >> So, at any rate, so I think that, you know, we needed a structure that allowed Now, is this the best structure? I don't know. That's, you know, that's the, you know, Sharon the value served piece. I think there's been I think the consistent leadership has been Yeah. >> Um, really important. I mean the the fact that they've been able to oversee and really get into PLC's has been huge u for good bad or otherwise and what I mean by that is um with that oversight comes accountability and that is welcomed with various varied degrees of >> yeah exceptions do other schools use uh like vice principles to do that work do evaluations >> uh to do to the evaluative sometimes Yeah.

065>> Yep. They do, >> right? And there's different slightly different portfolios. You have like Dave Tanner, but and I don't know. They're >> I'll find out more. Yeah. and and some in some schools do. Um but again, you know, having been in those in all of those roles, >> assistant principal, dean, principal. Um it was frustrating for me, it was frustrating for teachers >> when I had evaluation set up and I didn't make it, >> right? >> And all of their hard work, they had to start from scratch with their with their lesson plans and all that stuff. >> Okay. I think we're going to have to come up with a reduction plan. I think the conversation is great. I think this would be like our um you know our plan retreat. I'm wondering what

066people feel their communities want to see cut. you know, I think we need to we need to come up with some um proposals or how can we cut this or or have we done our best, >> you know, I think and and I think maybe different the different communities are really different because the people that I'm listening to at Mansfield really want the quality to go up >> and quality costs things and so like instead of a like if we're thinking if we have to cut um maybe there's ways to also think about selling the budget um to towns in terms of quality. So for example, instead of a summer athletic program, which I think it has great things, we can say we can cut this if you want. Sure. But we do need um

067I think from those math scatter plots. I was studying that pretty carefully. Um, you know, like it would be great to have a summer pre high school program for students who have that fellet um from districts or from school systems that >> for whatever reason don't have the resources maybe to prepare their students in the same way that everybody else does. I think that's really important. That's a question of equity, right? And so that should be a summer program. That's going to cost something because you have staff >> busing maybe, you know, maybe it's an optional program, but we can kind of tweak it in the same way that I >> I agree. I agree with you. We want our quality. We want our equity. I would I love the math proposal. That was beautiful

068information. But I'm I personally would like to see uh it it more geared toward um bringing kids who are not your honors. You know, when I asked the question, who is here? >> Right. >> Um you know, let's let's keep our quality and let's also keep our equity. However, you and I are talking about more money. And I think uh we're going to have to propose this. We have to know where what would people in our communities want to cut. Do they want to cut um administrative things like our directors or I mean >> and again we need these people. >> I mean people don't understand and also when you say like the first time I heard about the summer sports program not being a sports person I thought ah do they really need it?

069And you know what? I think it's not what I my opinion of of this board. It really was great for a lot of kids. Really was. So I'm just asking people to to think what can we do? I love your idea and we already talked about this be the last time about having some talking points that Amanda could, you know, put together and and you >> Well, that's what Kathy was saying that we Yeah, we need to have a promotional what are we doing? Why are we spending these the money? >> Well, it has to be about quality too. And that's where we've talked a lot about like programmatic um benefits, but I think like to just sustain quality and to ask people to remember that a community um depends on its school. People I

070know haven't moved here. I can count seven families that chose Westford over Mansfield. Um and that means that it's they're not which is a lot, right? That means sheer things to do in town. like there's there's less kind of there's less because you just simply cut fewer people here and so the it's it feeds on one another and so even if you're a taxpayer with zoom kids you should want your high school to be really good >> and I think Willington and Ashford feel the same way and I think that still we need to be thinking about we can't go out with just our first round and have Okay, that's it. >> Are you referring to this year's budget? Yeah. So, >> Tim's been trying for a while. >> So, I think it's an important

071um point to be made from the perspective of some of the towns that kind of buildings for your to say, well, they might say, well, I know you want to increase the quality of education by increasing the region budget. But by doing that, you're saying, okay, we can make up for the downfalls that are further created by increasing the budget. So, it's sort of a bit of a snowball problem where >> we'll take more of your money. I'm not you're not saying that. I get that. >> But we'll take more of your money and then make up for your educational shortcomings by adding a course on our side. And they might look like, well, wait a minute, you know, why don't we just fund allow the towns to do the education? Why not just keeping

072>> swinging that perception that that that percentage of their budget they only have so much of make more of it goes to the region. So be sensitive to that. We're trying to convince them, no, no, no, >> we're going to we're going to we're going to handle it all here. And they're like, oh, wait a minute. >> Trying to get our kids ready without So you don't have to do that. >> Yeah. >> Also, I mean, I think that it would be wise to have like the Mansfield um school district here, Wellington, Nashville, the the community school ideas, too. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, but sort of like a it's a sort of one or the other. Um because that's actually not where the budgets always get cut, are they? Or maybe that's like Ashford

073Council or Willington Council cuts their own. >> They have to cut the teachers when we increase our budget. Yeah. >> But is that just because they choose their education to cut or is it >> because they education have no money? >> They're 80 plus% of the town budget, right? So this there's not much else to cut. >> There's not much else they do >> and there's no commercial, >> right? Yeah. And here's a thought. I mean, I I just throw this out there because, you know, taking, you know, picking up on some things we said and then, you know, also what you said, Kenley, um, was that and we're talking about talking points. So, you know, if I remember correctly in Asheford in seventh or eighth grade, the kids were expected to take two math

074classes if you wanted to take that next step. So, they had math course that they took and then I don't even know if this is still the case. >> Huh. Yeah, they took >> but and then they had to so my kids you took two math classes in eighth grade in order to be able to place into a more advanced course here at EO. However, if they were able to have taken, you know, an additional math class over the summer, then they could have stepped up even an additional course. And so if there was a way to sell that of, you know, we'll we're going to run this summer program and we're paying for this summer program and we're trying, you know, and and the budget's staying constant. We're not going to cut anymore, right?

075>> But we're going to to to put this in place so that kids can come up and take that course before actually entering, if they choose, obviously before they actually enter >> into 9th grade. Is this a hypothetical in the next budget year? We're not talking about them together for this. I'm just trying to think about talk about selling points. How do you convince people that with the increase this gradual increase? How do we how do we kind of um convince them that this is part of that quality education that we're all we all want? They want too. We want that in Adford, you know, the elementary K through K through eight school, right? >> Um so how do we kind of try to help prepare our students better and then also maintain our budget

076so that we can hear so that we can you know we're not hurting. Well, let's but there is an infinite number, you know, >> briefly. I I mean, >> or finite number, excuse me. >> The reality is that just, you know, because Mansfield makes up a larger portion of the school, that student enrollment allows us to sort of absorb the increases a little bit easier than Ashford and Willington. So there is more of a willingness from you know my perspective as a Mansfield representative from what I hear in Mansfield um to have some increases more of a I mean it it's more practical for Mansfield because you know if we lose 10 students that's not much of a hit versus if Willington or Asheford lost 10 students at a community 10% increase just for your

077portion of the budget. Um so anyway so I say that to preface I think what what worries me is like you know the the director example I mean having uh you know four staff members who are not teaching a single class uh you know that's excluding counseling and excluding um uh the special so that's excluding those two but the other four um having four directors of departments that aren't teaching classes. I mean, that adds up to almost half a million dollars. >> Um, so I mean, we need to look at things structurally and I I don't that's just not sustainable. And I get the whole idea of we want them to be able to, you know, assess how our teachers are doing, but couldn't they do that by teaching two or three classes? I so

078so so I'm talking about this year's budget. >> Yeah. >> Um I I understand right now this budget I'm I'm in support of what you have put forward in the revised option one. I'm ready to vote on that. I think it looks good. But um when we're talking about restructuring, when we're talking about, you know, if this 115 number is real, I mean that's that's staff. I mean that's if it is real, that's staff. And one of the first places we should look is where we have staff members who are directors who aren't teaching classes. I'm not saying to cut positions, but I'm just saying have them teach a couple classes. So if we have retirements coming up, if we have staff members who are moving, you can sort of absorb positions. U I mean

079to me, as we're looking to next year, and I'll be a board member next year, I wouldn't feel comfortable on voting in favor of a budget that doesn't at least consider that. So I would I would want you to be thinking carefully and here's why. So there's been a lot of work done to try and bring Ego Smith and this is going to sound how it's going to sound filter filters off. Um in a district like like region 19 there is we have just as many schools as K12 districts. You've heard this story before, right? They where there is a lot of middle management to make sure that there are structures and systems in place to function appropriately for oversight and accountability and for there to be ongoing progress and progression. We now have a

080curriculum. We did not forever forever. Nothing in writing. We got dinged and by NAS. It took a it took a heavy lift on the part of leadership to get us to a place and actually took co money to be able to hire to hire folks to help us get there. Some of that's been reduced over time. We weren't able to sustain um one of those positions. It's curriculum is not something that just you you're one and done. It's a consistent constant prog process. We talk about that. Directors are a big part of that. helping to write the curriculum and oversight of it includes the CIA piece, but it also includes the work of the directors on the daily being in the PLC's which meet every single day to make sure that the written curriculum and

081the taught curriculum and the assessed curriculum are the same curriculum. And that's all connected to this grading and reporting policy that's in place. that's in place for a reason as well because this oversight hasn't been hasn't been in place. >> Additionally, districts of this size with this number of students in our in our area, we look at an Ellington, we look at a Taland, a Volton, a Stafford, they have a superintendent, an assistant superintendent, a business manager, an HR director, etc. to keep things moving. and they have, you know, potentially have either curriculum coordinators or directors and, you know, things like that. I would be far more inclined to say directors should be teaching if there were other systems in place to help keep those other those pieces that now we currently have created over

082the past six years. if we had other middle management, that's a word that for lack of a better word, middle management processes to oversee in place to keep things moving and to keep us moving in a in a way that other districts have had for a really long time. It was a missing link here for a really long time. And as our as our numbers get smaller, some of those decisions may have to be made. But it's a it it is a challenge here for everybody to wear so many hats and to do so many things um that without the support. And so the decisions made with the directors wasn't um it wasn't made half-hazardly. It was, you know, how do we provide support to teachers in making sure that they have the instructional support

083in writing, revising, and implementing consistently the curriculum and the assessment as we move forward >> and addressing many many other initiatives. And I'll just support what Sharon said um and then we'll get back to the question of and what our job really is. if we collectively say, "Yeah, you've got to come in with more reductions," as we've done in other years, >> right? >> Um it's up to them to figure out how that happens, >> right? >> We're not micromanagers of this. We certainly have opinions, but I will just say that um having worked here um in a role that in other districts would have more than me because we're so small so to speak doesn't take away the fact that the state the federal government still requires that we do a variety of things.

084And I can say that I worked here, every administrator here works more hours than I think administrators work in districts that have multiple levels of middle managers. It's typical to have curriculum coordinators, right, in other districts. It's typical to have assistant specialed directors. It's typical to have assistant superintendent and as Sharon indicated, other people doing things that we just have never been able to do because of our size. um a one school school district is almost a curse in many ways. So I would just caution us to um trust that we're trying to meet all the requirements of the kids, the state and the federal government with a very limited set of players and no middle managers. And so it took a number of years to get to the point where the administration put in

085place a pretty workable um set of of people to oversee a variety of things that we are required to do and oversee and there are things that we've lost along the way because we don't have enough people. I mean we don't write a lot of grants because we don't have an independent grant writer. Many districts do. So you get my point. So, I would just say that um I think it's if if what you're saying or what we're we say to Sharon is go back and and even if we don't ultimately agree with it, do what we've done every year, come back with blank blank and blank until you know we've got an image of what what it looks like in terms of the percentages that the districts would have to contribute. But it's up

086to them to figure out how to um how to do that reduction. and Sharon may have some more tricks in her bag as you indicated for the next time we meet which is next Tuesday. Um and uh so I would just caution us to not be uh trying to run the school. >> So so I was I just want to respond quick. I totally understand that and I agree. And in terms of this year's budget, I'm in full support and when you have an increase as marginal as this is, Sharon has done a great job. Amanda has done a great job. They've done amazing job. the directors we have. We have incredible staff, we have incredible directors, we have incredible administration, we have incredible teachers. That's just that's that's that's the truth. Um, but what

087I'm saying is if we're looking at serious increases potentially in the budget and decline in enrollment, >> you're talking about for future budgets. >> I'm talk I'm talking about future budgets because it came up in conversation in regard to this budget. >> Okay. If we're having those conversations, part of our job as as a board is to vote on a budget that represents the communities that we represent in a situation like this when there's marginal, you know, it's like, yeah, I I 100% trust Sharon to make those core decisions, >> but if we're talking about extreme increases and we're talking about structural changes in the budget that might need to happen in the coming years, uh, we got to have some sort of a say in And sort of to Sarah's point, we got to

088be in touch with what our community members want. We got to be in touch with what the needs are. And that's and that's what right and that's the role that we play to help inform Sharon of you know in Mansfield Sharon that's just not going to fly. And so that's that's the role that we play. >> Well, it's help clarify that you're talking about future budgets there. talking about future budgets and like I said, I'm in full support of the the revised option one that that you put out. >> Yeah. And I'm just gonna back up what you said and I think it's true that when we answer to voters and and they're like, well, who's teaching what? Why aren't there enough teachers to offer this and this and this? Are there is it true

089that there's some people who are qualified teachers who are in that school who are not teaching? I think that is something that comes out in a budget conversation that comes out at voters and it comes out well talk about whether they want to support the budget for the school. >> Sure. >> And so that that question like like when when uh largely the carpentry for example that sort of the overs subscribed carpentry there's a lot of kids from Wellington and Ashford in there too. Magnus mostly when I asked Earl about that it's like most most of those videos are well and my son will also be really really eager to get it when he like doesn't I'll want to know too like well why is there a director overseeing that who's not also teaching if

090if that's what we need because that class is always oversubscribed and it's totally important for a career actor who's full >> and that's about the quality but that's about the programming that's about jobs at the end of it. >> Well, and I think that also that point specifically that point keeps us competitive, I think, or helps to give offer some competitiveness to some of the the um the uh the other schools like the tech schools, >> you know, it keeps keep students here. >> So, it's not a little, you know, it's also advanced math. It's also correct, right? >> There's a misunderstanding that we're not offering courses because we don't have enough teachers. I think, you know, the carpentry pieces is different. We don't have a director who can teach carpentry, right? Or or department

091head for that matter because it's a specialized certification that we we've tried to hire someone for. We just there isn't anybody. Um Earl was a Christmas miracle. Um >> because um as was as uh Alan Niskin, but I think the you know, we we are still offering so many courses. I mean when we reduce teachers or we look at you know the we look at the courses that we offer it's it's totally based on class size and the fact that um you know can we still run the courses we have based on the number of students whose who want to be in them. So you know you know when when there are courses that don't run it's generally because kids don't sign up for them or not enough kids sign up for them. Um, does

092that mean that, you know, there are courses that are, you know, when you have five sections of AP psych, might we not be able to run six? Maybe. But I mean, that's that's it's a nice problem to have. But, you know, offering five sections of AP psych is great, but there are other social studies classes that have to be taught. And you know, I think understanding the value served in having administrative positions and understanding that those administrative positions aren't taking away educational learning opportunities for kids by not being in the classroom. It's almost like saying, Sharon, you can teach. Why aren't you teaching as a superintendent? >> And you did. >> I did. And you did a great job. >> I did. It was super fun and I loved it, but it killed me because

093there were parts of my job as superintendent that did not get done >> or did not get done well. >> And that that's the run, right? >> You can't do everything well >> and and you know and it killed me to um because I don't feel like I did anything well. I could have been a better teacher that year and I could have definitely been a better administrator that year but you know to but my role was to be a superintendent and um so over time so back to what we have to take care of now um next time we meet I presume you will have some additional thoughts and and that may or may not reduce us a little bit more and we've done that annually where we the superintendent does bring back in

094um a few more iterations. Um but I think I said this the last time we met. Sharon knowing that this has been tough for Wilmington Nashford came in with a lower budget than has been typical of our superintendents in past years. It used to be the case that uh back to Baruse come in with a loaded budget and then you could >> do 50 iterations and then we'd get to something we all strategy >> but that was a strategy and Sharon's avoiding the strategy by coming in pretty basic to begin with. So I would just say that um certainly um we've got some lowering going on. There may be some more as of next week, but beyond that, there may not be a whole lot without cutting into uh something that we've committed to for

095the time being. Now, as we go into looking about at future budgets, um there may be a time when we want to look or at least have a presentation on the job descriptions of the various players in the building. Absolutely. >> And that's a that's a definitely something board personnel does that all the time. we can look at so that we have a better understanding of what we are required to accomplish here and who's doing it and how it's getting done. Um, >> then we can support it better. >> Could you throw transportation in there? >> Transportation buses. >> Well, that's in terms of uh Can we not have them anymore? >> No, no, you have to have them by law. >> Okay. >> No, the >> you could streamline them. I've been saying it

096for 20 years. You could streamline the buses. >> You could streamline the buses. >> Yeah. And I think that's a conversation that all three towns have all the time >> and for 20 years. >> Yeah. >> The conversations have been had and it's never been done. >> But it's expensive. And when you get stuck out there, >> Yeah. >> did a couple of days ago >> counting the 38 empty buses leaving school. >> Drives us all crazy. >> It's incredibly frustrating. >> That's another whole presentation. Um, back in the day, uh, the olden days, we were able to use much smaller vehicles to pick up kids. And then a number of anecdotes resulted in massive changes and laws that required us to put all children on large vehicles, even if there's just one. So, we

097are we are encumbered by um some very >> our town run real close to each other. >> I'm on a road where the Ashford and Mansfield buses in the middle plant the seed. And Amanda jump in on this too. There is a mandate at some point of going to electric buses that I'm really hoping goes away, but right now it's not. >> Yeah. But stay on that Theres because you never know. >> Can you forbid parents from paying other jobs? I know. I know. But it's just >> I do want to ask >> Can I ask Oh, sorry. I just wanted to ask uh real quick on because I I wanted to talk about the buses myself. is that you know every meeting the student representatives bring up the afternoon bus and actually I'm hearing

098from uh parents myself and so I was just wondering is >> um is there like is there you know if we were to have afternoon buses what would that look like is that even I mean because people are asking for it >> like do we you know is it just >> violence yeah the afternoon bus I feel like it's an equity problem, but it's like people ask for it, but then I feel like nothing happens. And I was just curious. >> So, I have math. I don't have it here with me. >> That's fine. >> But I do I did get some quotes from um our bus company. >> Um there's there's there's certainly pros and cons to it as far as um and Amanda and I have talked a lot about it um for

099reasons. Um, >> I'd like to just add that when I went to EOS Smith, we did have late buses and they were not heavily utilized. There were very few children on it because they went too early for kids to go to sports and then take the late buses. So, there were only a handful of children who went to clubs that were able to use the buses and it is a really high cost for only a handful of students. Just to throw that out there. >> But I'll bring the map. >> Yeah, we can still look at it. >> I understand. But I I think that I mean but we're hearing from people. I mean I don't know like I mean I I think it's a matter of managing them like whatever we have. I mean

100it's meeting the children at the time that they need to be met. I don't know like you know but but I understand it's you know maybe it's next year you know maybe it's you know like you know and maybe the whole thing needs to be looked at if there's you know 15 buses leaving without any students. I mean that doesn't sound very efficient to me. The challenge with that is that we do we have to provide transportation for any student who wants to take who who could take a bus. We can't make them take a bus. >> We'll have a let's have a bus meeting sometime where we talk about the ins and outs of that. >> This is true all over. So I mean perhaps there's some ideas floating around because it's true all

101for the environment either and not all the >> streamline the roots like there's I think that there >> you got to get the township. Yeah, the cows. >> So there's a >> Well, which leads me back to regionalization fully. >> Stay with that coming. Stay with that. >> I do want to ask one more question. >> Yeah. >> And it's and it's it's doesn't have a big budget impact, but I came away from Dan's presentation on the summer athletic program that he was not selling it in a big way. I would like I would like when you come back for the next meeting, you know, if we continue, does he have ideas to address those issues that he could work within or should we just consider getting rid of it? >> Um, well, >> go

102ahead. >> Liking it or not liking it means it was effective or not effective. >> Well, I mean, I'm taking some questions about whether it was effective or not. That'd be an attitude. >> Wasn't there also one or two sports where the teacher coach just wasn't going to come back to? Wasn't there some comment about that or they didn't feel it was worth it and it was one of the better attended ones? >> So like is there even a way to have it again anyway? Like do we >> was it could be one of the coaches that runs a paid >> right like who knows >> program in that locally that would rather just have all their kids do that. I guess I would just like I would just like to come back and and

103because it's been left hanging out there and I didn't I didn't come away from his presentation with a real like >> this is great, you know. >> Maybe he was trying to talk us out. >> Well, certainly Sharon will have to talk to him before he gets blindsided by us cutting it. >> No, no, I don't want to do I mean I feel I want to hear from him what he thinks. >> He knew that that was going to be a a conversation. Um, yeah, I can I can I he purposefully tried to create a presentation that showed kind of the good, the bad, and the ugly of, you know, what went well, what didn't go well, >> right? >> Um, we with with the idea of, you know, if >> this was something that

104the board wanted to, you know, created the conditions for, I mean, we took money out of an account that is, you know, non-renewable to a certain degree. Well, it's renewable, but it's not fast enough to to fund it every year. >> Um, and you know, knowing that it would have to be in the operating budget. So, that really is the question. And that was the purpose of the presentation is based on what you heard the good and the bad, you know, ultimately is it value served? So, it did create some value for some students. There are some concerns um regarding injury and, you know, and things like that. Um and the in the question is and I think Kathleen's point is is a good one you know are there better uses of that funding >>

105for you know for other programmatic >> and and that's why I'd like to cure you know I mean I know he gave the good but but he raised some some concerns and and I I would really like to give a sense of uh how >> how he would run it you know how we would do it if we did to address those because >> I'm going to say that I have a three sport athlete at the school and at the beginning of the summer when this started Dan had concerns. Dan wasn't into it. So the fact that his presentation wasn't overly energetic about it doesn't surprise me at all. Just from my perspective and having you know a student athlete that participated in it and there was a lot of participation in it. >> Um

106and I would say that like a couple hundred students I think participated in it. I don't know how many eighth graders are in Ashford this year are coming here. Um is it like 35? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So 35. So maybe roughly half of them are advanced on the math side like 17 and maybe out of that. >> Do you think 10 want to do summer school? >> Well, I don't think I'm saying it's been I just think it's a question, you know. I'm just saying like now and and does he have a plan for addressing what some of those negatives were? I just don't I think we need >> legitimately mitigate the negatives. Yeah. Legitimate questions. >> So the summer athletics is 30,000. Is it 30 or 40? >> 30,000. Okay. So So >>

107summer athletics is 30,000. So if you split that up between the towns, that's a $6,000 difference for Ashboro. That's a seven $17,000 difference for Mansfield and a $7,000 difference for Willington. So I understand the conversation, but like even filling in somewhere, I mean, I read through the budget that you presented. I mean, I don't know where $30,000 would fill in much or change much one way or another. So looking at what we have potentially to look at next year, I'm all for keeping the $30,000 in there and just talk about next year. And I'm very comfortable with what you uh proposed. >> Yeah. I don't think I would I didn't propose this as a money issue. I proposed this as an issue that if we continue it, does he have a plan on how to

108mitigate some of the concerns he had? And that's >> Yeah, it just sounded like he was worn down by, you know, it's like no good goes unpunished, you know, like I think >> it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. And then there's always >> parents and and uh you know kids and whatever. Oh, can you do this or oh I didn't get that. I mean on the other hand like I said I'm not a sports person but I could see value. You know, it's like >> just because you're an academic person doesn't mean you can't see >> the benefit for the scholar athletes and and and it really was good for kids in Nashville and and really was >> Kathleen. >> Thanks. And I was just of course and I was also

109a sort of support kid and uh uh you know I I wouldn't want like it would it would be a shame if one of those came at the cost of another and they're probably not even equivalent expenses but when people I was thinking about like ways when people think about what they need it should be on all levels but just while you're talking to Dan I was wondering if um you could also ask him um a little bit about the um I I always wonder about gender equity in sports because I am a sports person Um, and so like in the summer program, but also in the other programs here, um, that are grouped, um, they all kind of break out terms of sports. And I know that obviously some sports like football are going

110to be probably more expensive than others. Um, so I'm just curious like how that all in the budget kind of breaks down and and if there's a gender equity um, as far as what what the department is spending on sports. >> Thank you. >> I don't mind. So just a comment. I mean it sounds to me like Allan a parent had you were involved in the summer program. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. And you had what you it seems like you had positive experience. >> I did. Yeah. And I I mean I'm I want my son like coming coming here you know three nights a week to you know work out or play soccer or lacrosse things. Um >> you know versus like jumping his dirt bike or whatever. And I and personally I think

111that if that was law coming up, you know, as a new high school student and I knew that I could participate in a summer program, if you know, again, especially if for for women or young girls who wanted to improve, I'd be there, too. You know, I mean, that would be my my choice of activity for the summer. So, I think, you know, I guess, you know, I think there's I'm I don't know. I'm not so sure that you know that uh Dan had some concerns, but I'm not sure that the concerns are 100%. >> Well, Sharon Sharon can do her homework and talk to him a little bit about um where his head and heart are. We don't have to make this decision tonight. We have another workshop. >> I mean, injuries that's it's

112a one-year thing. And they also never included how many of those injuries were players that participated in the summer or not. >> It was just a >> right >> a number of injuries. So it's like did that person actually do anything or they playing right >> on a travel team >> all summer? >> A lot of our kids are driven that. Yeah. But I think you know like that we we we should take into consideration a parent's point of view to Dan's you know like I you know I mean I was I I saw Dan's presentation and I thought it was really good but but actually hearing Allan talk about it I actually like you know that this is you know to hear that you know his son can go three times a week or

113whatever you know what I mean like that's really cool. >> Yeah. We can also have him let us know like I'm sure he's polling his coaches because that was also a big piece that some brought up earlier too. You know how many of our coaches after going through it a year >> some were not thrilled about doing it in the first place. Some of it did it some of them >> did it and loved it and thought it was great. Some of them did it begrudgingly because it was some by CIA. Um, so you know, how many of our coaches are actually willing to do that, especially since so many of our coaches are employees of the school? That was something that he brought up too. You know, the concern >> and some of them

114coach these summer, >> right? So, I can ask and see if he's pulled his coaches to see kind of what their >> Yeah. And then ask him as the board looks at places to cut, does he is he going to object strongly if we take away the summer program? Then you might see a different emotion, you know, then then we might say, "No, I really want this. I think it's we don't know yet." So, >> I just saw a lot of young girls participating, you know. >> Yeah. I I thought he was talking about >> Oh, yeah. There were >> there were >> So, can I ask one one last question? Yeah. Um, for me, >> so I'll I I'll have my conversations with with Dan and kind of bring that information back. Um, I

115will definitely bring um I don't know why it's not in my folder, but I been playing with the transportation numbers. Um, just to have so that we kind of have a baseline what we're talking about here. Um, but any further conversation and any talk about options um gets into I really only have one option. There's it shows several, but it's one option broken down into a few different choices. um and it does involve a physician. So, uh I do need to have a conversation with that individual. So, if we're talking about you want me to bring a legit um reduction forward next week, I need to have that conversation with that person um to let them know that we'll be discussing the the position. Um which is why I didn't show any of those options

116tonight. >> So, I'm just looking toward that um direction. What's done? >> I I thought it was your original budget presentation. It was so lean and you said to us, "Okay, do you have some suggestions for cuts?" And we're all like, you know, it I didn't want to open my mouth at all. >> I wanted to spend more money, Sarah. Yeah. >> And it it's like um my only concern I mean it was I'm I'm kind of have in my mind the strategy of presenting what we would really like to have. We're not, you know, making it a fat thing. But if something went away, we'd still be okay. I mean, we could still manage. So, um I think I think considering Ashford's uh you know position last year, how difficult that was for them

117to get their budget and I don't know what's going to happen in Wellington, I I cannot sit through a total finance meeting without, you know, turning music on or something in the background. I do Zoom because I can't stand to be there in person, but it's like, you know, I don't know what's going to happen in our town. >> I really don't for the budget. So, >> you had a really hard time last year, right? >> We have a lot of very loud people that want absolutely no increase whatsoever for any reason of anything, which is not realistic in any world ever. um and they happen to be very vocal about that compared to people who might more understand that it's impossible to not increase anything. Um but I think that a lot of other

118people hear that and then they're like yeah zero sounds good but it's like okay cool in a fantasy world but like that's not possible. >> Um >> it's hard to pick out the reasonable thoughts. reasonable people do outvote them. Like if you look >> generally eventually, >> you know, we're sitting there >> once they see they're not going to have any kind of a budget unless they do. >> Well, we're sitting there listening to spending money for education types of things and then all of a sudden, you know, the I mean, the crazies have gotten up and spoken and, you know, people are trying to be reserved and then all of a sudden we have a vote and it's like 54 against 25. No, I was just going to ask what the numbers actually were.

119It always passes by quite a bit. >> It actually that's just last year took three to last vote and >> they passed. You passed >> by how many? Was it like 50 votes or something? >> Huh? >> Was it like by 50? >> Yeah, something. But I know it passed. >> 50 of what? >> Ashford's budget passed. But I mean like out of how many >> we had to go >> or last to say oh >> can I add something to this? >> So I just think you all should be aware that the region's budget barely passed. It only passed by approximately 30 votes last year. Mansfield turnout was terrible and Willington voted no. They wanted no increase which I totally get. That's the the vibe there is. But we need to keep that in

120mind as we present this to our towns. >> Mansfield canceled out Willington and then >> and the vote. >> That's exactly what happened. Yeah. >> More than that, you know, but never well part of the the dilemma for um Mansfield is it's an independent referendum where Willington and Astrid's referendums on are on the same day as their budget votes. >> Right. >> Yeah. So, we have this this this baby out there that nobody, you know, knows about or pays attention to. >> And we have a little bit of a PR problem with Mansfield. >> Um, which I tried to work on last year, Amanda, and we didn't make much headway. >> Last year, Mansfield included it in their budget and brief, which did get out in time before the referendum. >> Yeah. But they didn't

121advertise it the way other things are advertised. Uh, there were no mailers that went home saying >> No, it was on the budget and brief mailer that went out for the town's budget. It was right on the backside actually. It's the first thing you would have seen, >> right? But it came out the week before the referendum. >> That is true. >> Yeah. So, um, this year we need we need multiple efforts to get our voters to do what it is they really should be doing. >> But that's a different issue, >> right? Yeah, that wasn't the other. >> So, so you have what you need for next time. Well, so not really. Um, >> so I don't know what else. But I'm kind of hearing mixed signals around um >> if we want to

122have the conversation around what potential options can look like, then I really do need to have that conversation with the individual. And I'm okay having the conversation. It's a we can have the conversation. It won't be a big a big surprise because it was a conversation that was conversation we had last year as well. So I can have the conversation >> well that we can discuss. >> I guess the question is is this an essential position? >> It is a non- studententf facing position and it's a position we discussed last year. Okay. >> Do I feel it's an important position? I do but it's a non- studententf facing position and if we have to make an additional cut um it is the position that I would recommend. So um just simply because it is not

123another classroom right it's going to make a difference. >> So so is it going to make that much of a difference? Well, that's the thing I know that I would appreciate it if you do. >> Could we maybe take a vote on that? See that? >> Sure. That would that would be democratic. >> It'd be more of a consensus, I think. >> All right. So the implication here is that um if if we want to we we could decide that we don't want to cut the physician ultimately but in order for Sharon to even have that conversation with us she has to talk to the intended person. So the question is do we want to rock that boat now >> and is this the right time? It's the only time is it the only time

124I think >> because we might need to reduce further that's the question. So does Sharon talk to this person in preparation for us reducing the budget further or not? So I I guess um this is a a quick and fast decision that we >> It's hard to say because we don't know what this position is at all. >> No, some of us do. >> I'm assuming this person has a life mortgage. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. No, and and has been doing a very valuable service for us, especially um through some of the transitions from COVID till now. Um, but it's a non studentf facing position for sure. >> Would this person leave if they did? >> I mean, I don't want I don't The question is whether I think the question

125is whether there's anyone that wants it lower than what is proposed. >> Yeah, that's a good that's a good waying it. Yeah. >> Okay. I can deal with it >> because I I do not and I'll say it for the last. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I don't want the budget I don't want us to go lower. >> No. What What are you asking for? um people who are in favor of of her not doing this. >> Option one and go with that. >> There we go. Let's move it. Um that being said, my if our budget goes down, >> we've got to come back and do something which has never happened to us, but >> know until May. >> Yeah, we won't know until that. >> Yep. >> All right. I'm all for like bringing

126on that, you know, like selling like what EIO does, how great EIO is, like why our budget is the way it is to the public. >> We got to get out there. >> I think it's a great school and I, you know, I'm a visual person. I, you know, I don't know. >> I think we agree that we we really could use a PR to active. Yes. And the idea of showing what our fixed costs are >> is always important because in general busy people don't pay attention to what you know why is this budget um why is why do the schools take up anywhere from 75 to 90% of the town's resources >> and it's it's largely fixed cost >> and I think we need >> I don't think I don't think it would

127matter whatever I say uh I don't think that the PR is going land the way I want it to with the >> the people who are going to vote for this are already going to vote for it in my town. I think >> and I think if I have this really nice Packet about don't we want the best education for our kids. There are kids there are people when I have gone canvasing for a new school. >> No. >> Yeah. Really? I've heard people say this. >> I sort of to go on top of Deborah's point, I I mean I think every single year Willington and Ashford the work you do in terms of communicating the budget to to the your respective towns is incredible. And I think really each year what we can count

128on is Willington Ashford to come out pretty even votes. And so I think what we need to do this year, especially in Mansfield, is turnout. >> Yeah. Mansfield turnout. >> And so it's on us. So, it's on the main representatives and and I having read through this budget, the more transparency on this, the better. If people had an understanding of what the budget is, I could guarantee you it would pass. >> Well, but but they have to have some understanding what it is. >> I don't think the turnout problem is uh not understanding the budget. I think it's just >> Well, they need to understand that it's out there for a vote. They need what the budget does. So it's >> and you know and no amount of PR is going to change the minds

129of the crazies. >> Oh well yeah we're not going for those >> with all due respect >> if the crazies are going to go for it. >> Yeah. >> You have to get the people out. >> This is not >> okay. So we probably when we're having a public meeting are we issue >> be cautious. >> Okay. You're not going to have to say anything. >> You're not going to have to speak to >> That's what I heard school. But if we are good, I'm just going to shut the live stream. Yeah, shut a live stream