Andover Budget Workshop - March 11, 2026

001All right. Hello everybody. Uh it's March 11th. It's 7:01. It's time for our board of finance um special meeting for our budget workshop. So, we'll start with the pledge of >> allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America >> and to the republic for which it stands, one nation >> under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right, everybody. Welcome. Uh, >> hey everyone. >> Yeah. So, the first thing we've got is public speak. So, give me a moment here. I had it up and now I've lost it. My list of people. I'm going to just try to go around. We also have some folks here who are here to present to us. So, I don't know if it makes sense to have them public speak, but

002we'll we'll start with um Tessy too. >> That's Jess. >> You can unmute. >> Yeah, that's me. So, sorry. Um, I'm here to support the garden club and um, I wasn't prepared to give a speech, but I have another meeting at 7 o'clock, which I'm late for, but I'll try to scoop back on when I'm done that and hopefully I will be able to um, uh, share my support for in detail for the garden club. >> Understood. >> Um, Eric, you are public works, correct? >> Yes, I am. >> Okay. So, I we're gonna have you on. Uh, if you have something to say now, fine. But otherwise, we'll wait for your presentation. >> Yep. I'm gonna have plenty to say. >> Very good. All right. Uh, Linda, >> welcome back. >> What's that? >>

003Thanks. >> All right. Very good. And of course, Community Garden, who I also believe we are getting a presentation from, so I don't know that it makes sense, but I'll ask you anything. you wanted to just introduce ourselves. >> Sure, go right ahead. >> All right. Um, >> and Michelle Lorenz, we're two of the members of the committee. >> Great. >> Okay. >> All right. Well, so we'll have you on. I'll probably have you guys go first because I expect that'll be the shorter of the presentations. Um, Joanne, >> hi everyone. I usually wait for public speak at the end, but I don't want everyone to have to hear me when they're exhausted after a long meeting. So, I'm just going to say a couple things. After listening to every budget so far and of

004course the marathon board of selectman meeting on Monday where they really went into the budget a lot, I know it's going to be a tough, you know, situation this year for all of you. Um, you know, you're going to have to decide what our needs and what our wants and that kind of thing. So, I know public works is speaking tonight and it looked like they were prepared and you had a packet that was attached. So, I just had a a couple quick thoughts. Um, and obviously you're all going to be asking the questions. We want to know how many trucks they currently have because they put in the packet that they're looking for another um, you know, truck, which is reasonable, you know, as far as they're going to put anything out there that

005they they think they need. So, we'll listen as the public residents and you guys as the board. I happen to work alongside a lot of people that work in public works um situations, you know, and they jump in cars together or they are actually if if this couldn't be a need that is met this year, you know, possibly mileage for someone's um you know, submitting mileage if they have to go somewhere in our small town. That's all that's my thought on that. And I was lucky enough to tour last year that public works building which a lot of, you know, obviously it's an old building. I'm not here to say it's new, but the guys that did work to it last year had put, you know, some good efforts and it's a nice space there

006for them. Um, just wondering, you know, there's a lot of things that need to be done. I'm not here to speak to all of them. Just the one that was a big $20,000 price tag this particular year was the heating and cooling type system. So that could be a year that maybe you put in another air unit for another year to, you know, cool it off for the guys when they're coming in. I mean, obviously our public works guys are out. You know, they're not in the shop. They're not working. I I know they do work in the shop. So that's all my couple thoughts are the needs and wants and everything that has to be balanced. And I didn't want to have to give you my opinion like in three hours when you're exhausted.

007Thank you. >> Thanks, Joanne. All right, let's uh let's move along. Um the first thing I'd like to do, I think I'd like to have the community garden folks go first because I expect that's probably a little bit quicker than our public works discussion and so we can have them have say their piece and they can then drop off if they wish. Um of course you're welcome to stay. So let's hear it from the community garden. You guys are muted. >> Okay. Yep. All right. Everybody can hear us. We got We got this. Um All right. So, uh I'm going to be speaking on behalf of the community garden today. And I just want to say that this year and our gardening years in the past, we've been very appreciative of the support that we've

008gotten from the town. Um because we really are trying to help our community with fighting food insecurity and as and by getting them out and especially with this long winter. I think a green season will be really nice to have um as soon as we can get plants in the ground. And we do have some plants already already in the ground. Um so some of the things that we're working on this year include uh involvement for educational outreach uh with Andover Elementary. Um we're working with the senior center to provide two beds for the seniors uh maybe three to also help fight food insecurity in Andover by making fresh vegetables and fruit available to the local community. And it's going to be at the community center as well as at the garden. Um we are

009going to have a seed library. We already have several uh donations for free seeds that are going to be available at the community center. We have a little library that Jeff built and it's going to contain the seeds in a in a category um for community awareness, which is something that we are going to be working more heavily on this year. Uh we're currently developing a schedule. It's going to be a seasonl long schedule to promote garden tours during events. Um, we're going to hopefully advertise through the community center bulletin, town website, Facebook page, flyers home. Um, monthly gardening education events during the gardening season. Um, we're hoping I'm working right now with the Yukon Co-op Extension to get master gardeners and composters to come speak once a month. Um, if not that, we're going

010to have hands-on experiences. Um and and uh Saturdays, every Saturday is going to be gardener hours from 9:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. where people from the community are welcome to come down to the garden that aren't like bed owners and we're going to have our excess vegetables and flowers available at that time for them to to take or to have. Um we continue to like exploring sustainability and water conservation practices. Um we have the pollinator beds to support handover beautifification committee native species of buds and birds especially the purple mountain uh martin houses >> bluebirds >> and bluebirds. And then um we're also going to include cut flowers for community events by request because last year that was something that was requested by us. We did not have any cut flowers that would stay in

011a vase. Um, and I mean honestly it's about getting everyone together outside down there. I know I watch kids in the community. I have Cub Scouts and the Cubmaster of Andover and the Scoutmaster and um I bring them down to the the community garden and while we water, they help lead um they play on the playscape, they run around. It's it's a great community experience and we're looking to involve more more people not just the gardeners. Um Peter >> uh our our president the irrigation system is isolated sprinklers on pedestals which is >> I can't hear him. >> The one >> I can't hear him. >> Sorry. Can you come closer? >> Yeah. Come come real close. I hear the irrigation system, but yeah. Go ahead. >> Um, the Andover Community Garden was originally started

012uh probably about eight or 10 years ago before the senior center um was even in planning. And it was started from Andover Sustainability Committee with Kathy Palazi and Abby Wy. And uh so we have a capacity of 1,700 gallons of rainwater collection um which we're waiting on power for the generators to supply power for our irrigation system to be able to use that water. We are currently running a hose from the senior center which is um the the town well is supplying three buildings and we are using isolating sprinklers on pedestals to water the the plants which is not the most effective way of water of irrigating the plants. So, we're we're asking for part of our budget to do a drip root irrigation system, which will uh should cut our water usage by about

01390%. >> That'll be under under the soil. >> That is correct. Two to three inches under the soil. A 12 12 inch grid system PVC. >> Okay. and uh the time automatic timers at each uh at each bed so that we're not irrigating for for eight hours at a time >> because one of the problems that we faced last year was the beds would dry a lot faster. So, uh, we feel like a drip irrigation under the soil would hit the roots. It would prevent root, uh, any type of blossom rot, root rot, and so we're hoping that that would be also functional, but it's also, um, it's it's friendly for all abilities instead of having to carry a watering can to the far side of the bed where the hoses don't reach. Um, and

014so we're looking for that too for for the seniors and the senior beds as well. So, do >> I have a question about seeds? Um, you guys mentioned you were getting maybe some donations of seeds and whatnot. And this is a question that came up in one of our prior meetings. I think there's some a bit of money in your budget for buying seeds. Um, how would that impact? So, if you're going to get some donated seeds, is the amount that's in the budget required to get your uh get your plants off the ground? I I apologize. I I'm a I'm a so- so gardener at best. >> Uh, no. Um, that that will that's not required now since we've reached out and have it donated. So we don't have to purchase it like we

015did last year. >> Okay. >> Hey Jeff. >> Oh so go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Jeff have a question on the uh beds that are dedicated for the senior center community center and for AES. Who will maintain those? And will they actually will someone be picking those and delivering those to those two fac two facilities? So our hope for that is to work with Tess to engage seniors in gardening. And so they're going to be it's going to be used as an activity here at the senior center. So it's not like a donation bed. It's literally a bed where they're going to be participating where it's it's it's the beds that are closest to the gate. Um it's the beds we're hoping to really install most of that drip irrigation system in.

016Um, and so they're going to be tending their own beds. And that's where that's for the senior beds. The excess produce that comes from the garden, which when we we have excess produce, that's going to be available to the community as well. So, it's And we have 12 beds total. We have 12 beds total. We have nine filled right now. Uh the year before last, um the community garden donated well over a,000 pounds of fresh produce to the food pantry. Uh last year I went and and and spoke to them about getting volunteers to come up and weed and pick the produce. That didn't happen. And that's why we did not donate to the food pantry this year. Well, we're we're collaborate. We did, but >> yeah, >> not not a,000 pounds. >> Not 1,000

017pounds. >> Um, so this year we're focusing on on supplying fresh produce to the community center senior center >> because we we wanted to to bring it directly to our community as well. >> Hey, I do felt like there were a lot of volunteers that helped. >> Okay. I do have an issue with that. Uh speaking for seniors, most of them are not going to be capable of going out there and doing that type of work. Um a very few will I think at this point and you know I can but others are much older and some have walkers and they may not want to go out in the heat and do all that. They might not be dressed for it. So that might be an issue for that. And I'm just wondering whether perhaps

018it could be more maybe work it out with tests where maybe they someone could actually end up bringing the produce in and putting it into what we currently have as our like bread and all that donations. So when the seniors come for their lunchions and all that, they would be able to just grab it from there without doing all that work. So uh no let let me interrupt for for a minute here because we've already spoken to Tess. We're we we have the refrigerated chest chest refrigerator that we had on the front portion of the pantry is going to be in the basement of the senior center and that would be available for anybody in the community or seniors on Saturday mornings to come and and help themselves. And also um I think you misunderstand

019um I mean I think seniors are able to decide whether or not they want to participate in the garden and to have that opportunity is their own. It's their own decision. So to say that they may not be able to do it is is a little bit a-list um and I think that they should have the choice of doing it and of course we would assist them with that. Um but for one person to speak for all the seniors is a lot of >> when I when I designed the when I designed the senior bed the the beds in the community garden the raised beds so that people could sit on the edge and be able to access the beds without strenuously bending over. I made the the the pathways between the beds wheelchair accessible

020with with crunch some so it is able to get a walker through to get wheelchairs in there. Um it's not out of the realm of possibility for disabled people to use our community garden. >> I'm sure it's not Jeff, but um did you talk to Tess about this as far as the actual there and Tessa is okay with that? Yes, that's supposed to be here in support of the Andover Community Garden. >> Okay. >> It's a collaboration this year with the community center, senior center, AES, and the community garden. >> Yeah, it's a great idea. You know, it's a great idea. I just hope some of them will be able to do that. Um, AES people too. I remember last year, the year before that, you had a couple of gardens dedicated to them and

021nothing was done with them. Is that going to be different this year? >> Here it's educational outreach. I said that in the beginning. Um it's educational outreach and we're having a master gardener work with them. I'm sorry. I'm I'm uh and it's educational outreach and regarding seeds and composting. So, they're going to be growing the seeds at the school and then we're going to be transitioning the plants over here where people can select plants that they can't grow their own seeds for those that are um mediocre gardeners. I think they refer to themselves as >> So, they'll be maintaining >> We'll have plans for you. >> So, they'll be maintaining the garden. will >> no no their children um grades second through sixth grade um if their families choose for them to come over the

022summer to maintain the garden of course but people maintain their own beds usually. >> Okay. >> In the past the the community garden committee and the bed owners have been made have been making sure that those beds get maintained. >> Okay. question. Um, can you can you guys move a little closer? It's really hard to hear you, but I have a question. Um, do the people that own I'll say own the beds, do they contribute anything financially to the garden? >> Yes. Um, they they do. It's mostly organic fertilizers or if they have a plant of their choice that they want to contribute, they also contribute their time. We have to go in the beginning of the spring and we have to turn all the beds over. We have to rotoill them and we all

023do that together. Um we we uh get together on Friday nights, on Saturday mornings, Sundays, we we beds. I mean that's manual labor is a lot of time commitment. Um, and that that itself is is worth a lot. >> I would I would also like to clarify that there are not bed owners that the community garden is owned by the by by handover by the town and >> people on a yearly basis select to garden in a bed. They sign up for a bed and that changes as people have more interest or less interest. So, and so that we're not renting beds. We're supplying them free to someone who is interested in putting forth the labor to help maintain the other beds as well as their own and also to donate excess produce to either

024the pantry in the past or this year it would be the community center seniors and seniors. And Jeff, as you you might want to speak about maybe the agreement that each of the uh bed owners have where they were supposed to contribute certain items and also have their work because everyone has an agreement to do certain things on on each bed. >> Is that correct? >> Yeah. Yes. We we Yeah. Yes. We have set up a contract that everybody signs when when they sign up for a bed that we are responsible for making the beds ready to plant, which means putting in um natural fertilizers, uh lining it, tilling it, um supplying water to the beds. But they have a contract that they sign that they're aware that they have to plant, pick, maintain their

025beds and also finish at the end of the season to clean up the beds. Uh so we have had a bed turnover because some of those people did not uh fulfill that contract >> and we're changing a little bit of that contract this year. Um so that um if somebody doesn't have interest anymore, it's going to turn into a pollinator bed, a flower bed for cut flowers. Um we did have people last year that struggled with getting to their beds and they communicate with us and we help them. So there was an individual who lost his father and he couldn't make it to his bed in all the time. And so Jeff and I and other gardeners helped out that gardener by helping them and bringing the produce to them and distributing it to the

026pantry when they wanted us to things like that. So help them watering and there are times when people are on vacations and we all have to chip in. It truly is a community involvement. It does take a small village and it's fun. It's not It's not a miserable experience. >> It sounds very wellrun. It sounds like you guys know what you're doing there. I just want to say that Jeff has been so >> I I just want to say that Jeff has been so instrumental >> garden and um he's been excellent, you know, and I would love to see it continue the way that we originally had it going and um I hope things run as well as you think they're going to. So that's great, Jeff. Thank you. >> I have a little question

027and this is maybe a board finance question. It's more of a personal question, but like um when you do the rotilling, where does your equipment come from? Do you get volunteers just showing up at the rotoiller? >> Yeah, >> I have. I don't even use it. >> Sorry, I can offer up mine. We have um we had in there in our budget a rent a rental fee of $100 for a Mantis Roatiller that we did use last year. Um I was able to purchase with this year's budget a reconditioned uh Mantis Roatiller from Home Depot within the last oh month or so. I've got a little electric one which actually works great. Uh if you got an extension cord uh and I don't use it anymore because I don't garden anymore. Uh but I used

028to I used to love to garden and I I had a a very large chunk of my backyard where I used to grow tomatoes and basil and everything like that. So I have I have a roteller sitting in my garage that is literally sitting there and doing absolutely nothing. So I don't know maybe another time contact me because maybe I'll just give that to you guys. Anyway, moving on. Do you have a question? I think Kim had a question. >> Yeah, please. >> I did have a question. Um, it sounds like you guys are working on, you know, having more programs for the community and I just, um, wondered, are you going to do all your advertising electronically like through Facebook, through the community center, places like that? Because you don't really have a budget

029for um, printing flyers or anything. And over, you know, you have to get the word out and introduce what sounds like a bunch of great programs. >> So, how many handle that >> face Facebook? >> Um, so we we have uh several different outlets. So, for Cub Scouts, we have the same thing. It's I I run Cub Scouts. I run Scouts. We have to get messages out to people. Um, not only can you just go by word of mouth in Andover, which always seems to work the best, by the way. Um, but we're going to use the community center bulletin. Hopefully, we're going to post it. Um, town website, hopefully get our events on the town website. Um, Facebook page, flyers home to parents through AES for uh that. But the thing is is that

030what we're planning on doing is only doing it the paper flyers only once. Uh we hope to have before the end of April a whole list of events on one page because as a as a parent, as a person that I'm very busy. Um I am and I'm sure many many people are. I like to have all of my information in one place and so I think it's the easiest thing way to do it. So that's how we're going to do it this year is just have a list and have it all planned out for the gardening season. Um of course there may be changes but we can work on that as we go. If if you go on to the Andover community uh Andover Connecticut Community Garden Facebook page, you can see all of

031our posts, all our history, and with all the likes and and and unfortunately not a lot of people commenting, not a lot of input, but we it's been very very successful on our Facebook page, and that's what we've been using in the past, and we want to expand on that this year. Well, maybe >> more people in the community. >> Maybe when you advertise, you could put your link to your Facebook page on all of the um electronic advertising. You know what I mean? So people know to go look for it. But anyways, it sounds great. I just wanted >> And we have we have things in the River East as well. We've been posting in the River East weekly for the past month. Um let us know if you see it though because if

032you don't, that's worrisome. Have you guys um gathered local donations at all? Do you seek out donations or do have you gotations at all to help fund it? >> Yes. Uh Matt Gordon and Matt Gordon and Karen Hunter and Indoor Landscaping have been very generous in donations and uh and and giving us things at cost. Um, we are now sitting on a pallet of potting soil, a fertilized natural fertilized dirt. >> Good dirt though. Good dirt. >> Good dirt. >> Black gold. >> Yeah. But they they have been very in um very generous with their donations. But we do end up getting some plants that are like cabbage and stuff a little past season so it's a little hard to plant them but we do and we're >> you got anything but like Hurst Farm

033that's another one that occurs to me they do I know they have a lot of seedlings and stuff like that. Nothing nothing over there. Okay. >> They do but they're they're for profit. Um and I go way back >> and uh you know we go there every Sunday. Um, >> I love the places >> in the summer. >> Why I mentioned it. >> Yeah, >> um, but no, not usually because they really grow for their own, you know, they don't have like an except it's not like a landscaping place, but >> it's where I used to get my seedlings. Reason I asked. >> Yeah. No, she is great. I love her. Um, but yeah, most of the stuff that we get we get from people that we know or we we rebuild it or we

034build it or you know and it's it's a good experience. You should come down. >> I should I used to actually really like garden. These are all raised beds, right, that you've got. >> That's correct. 10 10 by 20 uh actually 20 by 10 beds that are divided in half raised beds that are approximately 18 to 24 in off off the uh off the ground. >> Now I don't know about you guys but I always struggled so hard with tomato blight. I don't know uh you know how you guys deal with that but man that killed me. last year. It really >> well blight comes from the seed and so if the sea has it then the plant will have it. So one of the things that we do get down there is >> I

035didn't know that come from seed. >> Yeah. So um but mostly we get like blossom rocks. >> Well, you could try different plants next time. Sometimes it lives in the dirt so it'll come up when it's sprouting. There's a lot of different things. >> Yeah. Um, but we we we help each other out with that kind of stuff. There were some tomatoes that got some blossom rot. The water when we had all that downpour that was really rough because that split a lot of the tomatoes. >> Yeah. If you get a lot of >> heat >> too much water, you can get that. Yeah. >> And >> that's why we need to get away from the uh the oscillating spray. spraying. You're you're wetting the the leaves, the wa the foliage instead of the roots,

036which is what you actually need to get to. >> Yeah. >> That makes a lot of sense to me. I mean, I when I gardened, I was just spraying with a hose, you know, and so I'm wetting the plants themselves and I'm dealing with blight and it's just like it compounded. Half my crop was gone by the end. Anyway, all right. Thank you for that. >> Anybody else have uh further questions for our community garden folks? >> We board of finance to let them go. >> I'm done. >> All right. Well, thank you too. I I really appreciate your person. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate it. >> You know, stick around if you'd like, but otherwise >> come down and volunteer. Help us in the garden, please. >> And and I'm serious about that rotoiller.

037It's sitting in my garage. It's got nothing to do. >> Sounds good. Yeah, we'll take it. >> It's got a ton of torque. I'll tell you that. It's electric. All right. >> Thank you. So, all right. I think our our next one, we obviously should move on to public works. Mr. uh Mr. Eric here. Um who by the way, nice to meet you. I don't think I've met you. >> Uh this is a new one. So, why don't you run us through uh the status of things in public works? >> All right. Well, first of all, I'll introduce myself. My name is Eric Johansson. I'm the new public works supervisor for the town of Andover. Um I have over 35 years of public works experience and all aspects. Basically, you name it, I've done it.

038Um and again, if you guys have any questions, concerns, comments, whatever, please feel free to reach out to me. Uh, no question is too stupid by any means. Um, would you like me to go over line by line or just go over the uh where the budget is it's higher where I'm asking for more? >> I guess what I would ask I mean guys, board members, you can chime in, but my thought would let's start with the top line and then back up to how we got there. >> Okay. Um well we have first of all it's uh the DPW town garage budget uh medical drug testing that's for the testing of all the CDL drivers which we all are there. Um it's basically uh flat from last year. Um the fee for that hasn't

039really gone up. Um next up is the conference and uh seminar. um last or this past year, excuse me, uh his budget is uh $700. Um I'm asking for $1,500. The reason for that is um we do a lot of training through Yukon, which is a T2 uh um center they call it. Um we have a new employee this year and I like to in the fall send him to the public works academy. What that does is it gets some chainsaw certified, it gets some flagger certified, and he learns a little bit about everything uh in the public works end of it. It's a very very informal informable, sorry, excuse me. Um next up, we have the building maintenance. Uh budgeted right now, currently it's 17850. Um I like to keep that flat. Um the

040building as some of you have come down and seen it's in very need of dis it's in very disrepair. Um we're lucky that the new employee that we actually hired on is a mason so he took an actual good look at this building and we can do a lot of this work inhouse. he said um so we can get the materials and he can do a lot of the um pging and fixing of the block in house a as we have time. Usually it's more of like a winter project or in the summer for in between jobs he'll be he'll actually be able to do the outside. Um next one up is a furnace maintenance um for $1,50. Um, we had the furnace clean this year for $800 um through Corbett. Um, there's $200 left

041in that. It doesn't seem to be going up. Only uh heating oil and fuel and everything as you guys see. Um, so I'm keeping that flat. Uh, alarm system, there is a fire alarm system in that building. Um, that's 875. I kept that flat because as of right now, I haven't had any problems with it. But um I guess in the past um according to my predecessor, they had a bunch of problems with that system with the um um like Wi-Fi network and it was constantly going off and they were trying to figure out what was going on. So um the internet and cable, I guess that that's flat as well. That's 1470. Um again, from what I've seen and from what my predecessor has said, it's never gone up. Um, electricity $5,000. They're keeping

042that flat. Um, from what I've seen, we've come close to that number here and there. Again, it depends on depends on the year. Uh, this year was kind of cold. We do have electric heat in our uh in our breakroom sloff facility. Um, but I have something further down the pike for that for you guys. Um, but I'm >> Is that baseboard electric? >> Yes. And so Oh, yeah. Exactly. A space board. And we have a window unit that's like looks like it's from 1985 for an air conditioner to do the whole uh to cool the whole place. >> That that screams out for a mini split, doesn't it? >> Yes, it does. Um it sounds like you turn it on and sounds like it's taking off. Anyway, uh fuel oil, uh $6,300. Um again,

043I'm going by my predecessor. He said, "We've never really gone over that." That that what that does is that heats the garage part where we store the trucks >> that now I know the town locked in for heating oil. Does that cover you guys? >> Yes. >> So, we're good there. Okay, good. Great. The the only concern would be obviously, you know, you're seeing a jump now. >> Yes. >> For reasons that we all know about. So, you're you're cover that uh I forget what it was, 250 a gallon, something like that. Yes. And Jim when he was here actually signed up the contract for the coming fiscal year for actually less than what we're paying now, which is crazy. So, but I don't I didn't read over the contract. I don't know if there's

044any stipulations with everything going on. >> AES and the town did well this year when they lost. >> Oh, yes, they did. Um um for future reference and I I have a tough time wrapping my brain around this and maybe we could talk about this in other meetings. Um we actually pay more for heating fuel than we do the diesel that we put in our trucks. Um by almost Yes, exactly. By almost 9 cents a gallon more. Yes. >> Isn't that the other way around? >> Yes, you would think that. Absolutely. And I again I have a tough time wrapping my brain around that. Um, if you look at the contract, you'll see it and it Yeah. Yes. I I have that same look, sir. Um, so yeah, but that'll be a discussion for a

045later date. >> So, those are separate contracts. >> Uh, it's the same contract, but it's it's a different number per gallon. So, we have a I and I don't I'm sorry, I don't have the numbers in front of me. Um, but I think we pay right I was just looking at it today. We pay 258 a gallon for diesel for the trucks and we pay 262 for heating oil, >> right? You'd expect those to be flip-flopped, which is >> you would Yes, it's the same it's the same stuff. So, >> I have this year's contract. >> It's the same stuff, but one is one is taxed differently, right? Like the Is that the issue that why is usually cheaper? Like heating oil is usually slightly cheaper than diesel, is it not? >> Yeah. So, we

046don't pay the over the road tax period because we're exempt through municipality. Um, we do pay some fees in there. Um, again, without it in front of me, there's a couple like federal fees like we have no choice. We have to pay. I believe we pay more fees on the diesel than we do the home heat and oil, but it's like one more fee. Um, just nickel and dime us like they do everybody else. But is what it is. >> Yeah. It's why I got heat pumps. Anyway, go on. Exactly. Wait, >> Liz, did you have a question? You're muted. You're muted, Liz. Liz, Liz, you're muted. >> Yeah, I was like, okay, now I'm on. Okay. Yeah. I just wanted to ask a question as we're going through because um and maybe this is

047also a question for Lisa as well. I'm trying to go through the new preliminary budget as you go through line by line, Eric. >> Yeah. >> Um and I noticed that some of these amounts are a little bit lower than what you're stating. I'm wondering if the board of selectman got to this and made some decisions or did you not? >> Okay. Did So, did you go through this with them yet or No, >> I have not. >> Okay. >> Liz, because you're >> Yes. >> Did you Yeah. Did you print because it the changes they made on Monday would be in pink, highlighted in pink if they made changes. >> Oh, this is the one is dated today. >> I see. There's no there's no pink on the public works. >> Yeah, there's no

048shading. >> There's no pink. Okay. Well, you cuz he's saying uh >> that means they haven't gotten to it yet though, Lisa. Sorry, Liz. I apologize. I interrupt. >> What did you say? So if it's not in So if I understand correctly, if it's in pink, that means the board select made a decision about it >> and they changed something, >> right? >> If they haven't gotten to it, now it won't be pink. It'll just be blank, but it doesn't mean necessarily that it's been adjudicated or it's been sorted out. >> So I think that's what Liz is trying to get at. Like >> are the numbers in that chart >> reflective of what Eric's telling us, >> right? because he's saying um the fuel that the electricity will be flat at $5,000 and I'm

049seeing >> that I forecasted it and everybody this year is under their electric bill. Yeah. >> So that's the only change is his electricity. He said >> uh which line is that? >> It's 601 electricity. >> 601 >> fuel >> 601. Hold on. >> 603. >> Yep. And 603. Those are just my changes. And that was on the original one. Yeah, that's not something the board of selectman did. I just did that. Yep. >> Fair enough. >> I mean, you can put it back up if you want, but I'm >> Yeah. No, no, >> I'm only noticing Yeah, I'm only noticing because Eric's going through. >> I just did a forecast for him for the electrical up to date because I'm in here looking at March. >> Yeah, we're just trying to tighten this stuff

050up, make sure we got the right numbers in there because I mean, look, >> you know what sort of budget you're in. So, every cent kind of matters. Um, >> yeah, he's he has spent so far this year up to March 11 $3,200. >> I I think we're we're we're really that's the one place where we're really doing extremely well as a town is is that electrical. >> Um, >> so just looking at under public works and grounds is that am I in the right place? Public works and grounds to look at. >> Oh, the one above that. >> Yeah, garage. >> Town garage. >> Garage. >> My bad. Okay, that's why I was having trouble. There it is. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, uh, electricity 309601. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you were forecasting

051down. So, your budget request is what again? >> Uh, it's flat at $5,000. That's what it currently is now. >> So, right now, the budget requ Okay, so this this spreadsheet requests less than that. That's why Liz is keying in on it because there's a $1,200, not quite $1,200 difference. Okay. All right. >> Yeah. I just wanted to make sure I need to understand why we weren't seeing what he's asking for. That's all. But forecasting makes sense. So, >> I mean, honestly, uh, you know, we we we could talk about this a little bit like forecasting it flat may not be quite right either. Um, but that said, >> you know, if there are reasons why some of our other town offices and um and whatnot buildings are seeing declines is because they put in

052equipment, >> right? >> You know, the town hall, we did the hybrid system, right? We have a a heat pump in there now. >> Yeah. >> If you don't have that, then it doesn't necessarily make sense to to project a shortfall. So anyway, uh, for my purposes, what I'm doing, by the way, everybody, I have that spreadsheet that Lisa gave me, and I have my own version, save it to my drive. It's not the official version, but I'm when we talk about this stuff, I'm playing around with it. So, I just put 5,000 back in there instead of the 3,800 and what have you that Lisa had projected, so that we can at least look at that from the standpoint of, >> you know, at the end of the day, looking at worst case scenario.

053Exactly. All right. So, Eric, I'm sorry. Um, no problem. Liz, are you good? Was that your >> Yep. Thank you. Okay. Go ahead, Eric. >> Yep. >> Okay. Uh, next one on the list is fuel oil, the seeding oil like we talked about. >> Uh, for 6,300. Um, I left that flat as well. >> Oh, okay. Again, there's another place where we had a projection of a decrease significantly on this >> spreadsheet. Right now, Eric, you have only spent two $2,800 up to March 11th. So, and you know, last year was budgeted for 6,300. So, I mean, you can you guys do whatever you want, but it does look like it'll be under a little bit under 6,300. And I do have this year's contract with the prices. I don't know how much how many

054gallons were used, but I do have the one that you said Jim um signed in November. I do have it here. And the heating for town garage is 2.57. >> And again, the diesel is lower at 2.537. >> So, >> yep. If you can explain that, then good for you. >> So, so Lisa, what the number again that year to date we spent 28 something. What was it again? 28. >> Yeah. on the fuel as of March 11th. Right now, it's $2,823. >> I mean, is that something you want to just put in the notes, uh, Rob, on the side of our official sheet, like just so we when we come back to this, we can >> Yeah. One second. Uh, sorry. Give me 28 what? >> 2823. >> 23 spent through March. Through through

055March what? >> I have March 11. Let me let me just look and see when the last bill is. >> All right. I Last sale was February 8th. So that doesn't include March. Really? >> Yeah. All right. >> We just got a drop of like almost 400 gallons. I want to say a couple weeks ago. >> Yeah. >> Well, have you spent Have you paid that? >> No. The last bill we paid was February 8th. So, we haven't paid that much. >> All right. So, I'm going to put in February 8th, not March 11th. All right. Through 28. So, all right. And again, this is a spreadsheet. I literally have my own personal drive, >> guys. You know, this is a little a little sketchy, but I I'm trying to work with it. I'm trying

056to keep us um you know, up to date. So, thanks, Bill. Good idea, though. Like, that's a good note to have in there. Uh what do we have? What have we spent? What are we looking at? I mean, you would expect it to drop off from now on, right? I mean, those of us who have >> right, you'd hope now we're we're warming up. It's it's not going to be as bad. Um, >> we haven't gotten our April snowstorm yet either. >> And and next week's back in the 30s next week. So, >> yes, >> I know. I know. I looked at the the I'm like, what is this? But yes, uh long story short, without trying to >> jinx anything, um you would expect it to slightly, >> you know, taper off at this

057point. So, in terms of projecting what we're going to spend, I mean, I completely understand your perspective, Eric, where you're just like, you know what, let's leave it where it is. We'll just flat it, you know, just zero it from last year. do the same thing. But if we're if we are consistently coming in under that, then we we should at least think about reducing. That's all right. Sorry. Go on. Go on. You >> on that. >> Sorry about that. >> I was looking at the uh invoice for the the mini split. >> Yeah. >> Down below. And um I was wondering whether that mini split would be eligible for a rebate. I that I I don't know. So my home get like 500 bucks. >> That's certain ones though. >> I had my home

058too today and a lot of people >> but not just >> I don't know what the state has for for municipalities is the question and you should look into it for sure but I know that >> unfortunately on the homeowner side it's really pretty minimal. as somebody who spent a ton of money doing that right just literally this year uh you know where I I swapped out my AC systems AC systems for uh full-on heat pumps and yeah I'm I'm not looking at much of a rebate honestly it it's not a lot of money unfortunately but we should check into it even if it's 500 bucks. Yeah, I'm just curious whether that included that. >> But I don't know how it works for a municipality versus a private residence. >> I get it. >> Okay.

059>> Um, >> good question though. Like seriously, that's, >> you know, >> with well with that mini with that uh putting that mini split in, I just wanted to get it on your guys' radar. That way you you see what I'm looking at. you see a number and it's so you know again next year if I ask for it you're you guys aren't going hey wait a minute you kind of see the number and know kind of what's going on that's my general >> you should expect slightly more electricity and less oil you know from a heat pump y >> you do have to remember though we are in an 1865 building so >> the insulation is tremendous isn't it >> yes >> how many square feet is the area that you need to heat

060and cool with that because I mean I was in there last year and I didn't think it was a very my memory is is that it's not a very big area. >> And again, I'm I'm still new, so I I really don't know that question. Um or the answer to that, excuse me. Um the the the problem is don't forget we're going in and out of that through the door in the winter time, driving trucks in and out. And again, between it not being insulated well and just being an old building in itself, um some, you know, the heat is basically the heat turns on sometimes in November, doesn't shut off till April, like this year. Um that's why I'm happy that we have that new employee because he's going to be able to fix

061a lot of the brick work there and hopefully even drive this cost down a little bit more. >> Wow. Maybe he could even do some insulation and >> yeah, you know, pay for the >> as I get going. I mean, I may look at spray foam, but the problem is we're in a garage. We weld. We do a lot. We torch. There's a lot of things we do in that garage and that in that spray-on insulation is very flammable. I know you can get uh you know, flame retardant stuff. But again, then it becomes big dollars and so but but again that's going to be future as as I move forward >> and the long and short of is you get you get the doors open a lot. >> Yes. Unfortunately, the nature of the

062beast, >> you get it warmed up and then you open the door and >> Yep. Again, we keep all our equipment inside and if we need the backho or something like that and it was zero, you know, a month ago, the back ho's got to drive out. you have to leave the door open a little bit because of the diesel exhaust in there and then you close it and then the heat's running for two hours. So, >> um I I know that number at 6,300 seems kind of high, but we've had I believe that number is because past years um where the as you guys know diesel's been $67 a gallon at the pump. Um some of the contracts I believe are probably at three and change. Um, so I'm I'm assuming that's why it's

063that high, but but I don't know. I didn't go back far enough to look to see. Again, I was I worked on this with my predecessor, so he was more, you know, he had been there. He he had been there five years, so he kind of knew the lay of the land with stuff like this. Um, >> cool. >> Okay. All right. Um, office supplies. Um, you know, that's paper clips, paper, stuff like that. As you guys know, all that stuff's going up. So, I went up $25 on that. Uh, same thing with the computer supplies. 350 is budgeted for. I went up to 375. Um, that's uh, you know, the the keyboard I had there was missing. You couldn't read the numbers on it anymore. Um, and I'm a henpecker when it comes to

064doing that, so it's horrible if I can't see it. Yeah, exactly. If I can't see it, the letter in front of me, it screws me all up. Um, so I I went up with that. Um, so that's it for the town garage. Um, I can get into the operating budget if you'd like next. That's what I have on my All right. On the operating budget side, which is uh it says public works grounds in this tablet, but um I have >> What is it start? What is the number starting at? Uh >> fourth because it's 4399. >> So it's going down further I I'm thinking. >> Yes. Going down. So you have town garage and the next one says public works. >> Yep. Got it. >> And then it says public works. >> Yep. Thank

065you. >> And my old computer says >> over. >> Yep. I'm not see Huh. I'm not seeing that. >> It's just a little bit down list. is not just just go down a half a page. >> Wait a minute. Public works. The full public works budget request. >> It's on page 12 of the big book. >> Mhm. >> Oh, I'm not looking at you page 12. >> Is this line 278 in the spreadsheet? >> Yes. >> Oh, 4399. Okay. So, it's line 265 in the Excel spreadsheet. If you're >> Oh, 265. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> 265 of the spreadsheet. >> Yes. >> Oh, where probably where it starts. But the grand total is 278, right? So, we have in there in this spreadsheet is 470. So, I'm I'm I'm curious now. Okay. >> All right.

066You guys all set? >> Yeah, we're on. >> I think so. Yeah. >> Um, first one is public works salaries. Um I estimated going up 3% because the public works uh union contract is up this year. Um again depending on what they their outcome is that's generally the everything across the state that's what everybody's getting. Um temporary public works salary. Um I left that flat. Um uh currently they paid uh Jay out of that as an intern to come in and do stuff. Um I don't know if um I was hoping to maybe get a part-time kid this summer, maybe help foul behind a roadside mower or something. Uh do some weed whacking behind that. Um to use our full-time guys in other aspects, but I kept that flat. Uh again, public works overtime salary.

067Um, I estimated another 3% for the contract negotiations. Um, fire extinguisher testing, that's 1,200 bucks. I kept that flat. I think I paid uh this year a,000 something. I don't have the exact number. Um, and we bought we had to buy a couple extra fire extinguishers for some of the uh some of the equipment as well. Um, vehicle maintenance. Um, I went up with that 3% parts are going through the roof as you guys all know if you've brought your car in the garage. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm just looking at the spreadsheet. I want to make sure it's right. It's what I see in here on the spreadsheet Lisa gave me is 3.1 3.61% $1,254 increase. Is that correct? >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay, cool. So, all right. >> It's up I It's up Well,

068I 3% but it's a little higher. >> Yeah. 3.61. Yep. The reason >> the reason for that is um I need to put tires on the truck, my truck I take home with and I'd like to purchase a a spare loader tire. Um reason for that is my last job I was in uh the the loader we have is is new, thank God. And also too, we use that thing like every other day. Um if we get a big storm, if like for snow storms, I mean this past winter I was clearing the parking lots with it cuz we couldn't push the snow with the trucks. Um if we blow a tire on that, it could be three to four days out to get a tire for that. And that is a frontline piece of

069machinery. Um if we have a tire here, we can call a tire service and they can have that they can come up and have that thing on and we can have it going in like two hours. Um, next, uh, for, excuse me, is, uh, like rental, um, $1,800. Um, I flatten that. So, sometimes we rent a screener for various projects. Um, for the Bunker Hill Road project, we hauled a bunch of, um, like lom and material out of that and we like to screen it, and then we can reuse it for, you know, various projects we do around town. Um, mobile phone, I left that flat. That's that's my phone for the for the year. Um my take-home phone. Uh diesel, I left that I left that flat. Um 22 grand or 22,300. Um that's

070basically what we've done yeartoear. And with the new contract coming up, it's going down. Um, as you guys see, um, don't forget too with that diesel, the fire department, the fire department, I believe, chews off that and because they pay us back and the board of ed as well. So that I Yes. >> So I mean, if if it's going now, I mean, the hope would be here that this is actually more than >> Yes, >> we really need. >> Okay. >> I think to date now again without I think the date because we don't forget we had a bad winner. I think I'm almost up to 13. Yes, I'm I'm almost up to 13 grand on that number just just with our fleet alone. Um so um we're going to be close getting close

071to that number. >> Um gasoline $10,000. Uh I'm leaving that flat. >> I know that's a high number, but again, you guys have driven by a gas pump and it's almost four bucks a gallon in some spots. um supplies. >> Yeah, it's it's definitely higher than we've spent in the past. Um >> well, that's what last year I believe that and so I'm just going by what >> No, it's what we budget. It's what we budgeted, but it's pretty clearly not where we've been spending. I think we were being careful. >> Yes. Again, with the gasoline so volatile like you guys and we don't have a contract, we're at the mercy of going to a gas pump. >> Yes. That's just, you know, you bow around in and all of a sudden it's four bucks

072ago. Yeah. >> Or worse. Or worse. >> It always goes up quick. It never comes down quick. >> Yeah. >> It is funny how all of a sudden the gas in in the actual tank costs more now. >> Yeah. >> Anyway, go on. >> Supplies. Basically what that is, that's like our uniforms. We buy uh uh oils out of that. all our shop supplies like all our nuts and bolts and things of that nature. Um I did go up with that uh 950 bucks. Reason being is our uniform and we have a new uniform contract and I believe that went up 3% as well. Um like everything else going up. Um equipment that's like uh tools. Um trying to think what else. Um, like, darn it, I'm at a I'm at a loss. I apologize.

073So, we buy like our tools out of that. We take some of the like um Darn it. Sorry, I'm drawing a blank. >> It's um out of that. We take um there there's various things we take out of that and I apologize. I don't have that in front of me. It's it's broken down in my spreadsheet at my computer at work a little better. Um but it's I it's flat. >> Yes. So the one thing I would mention and this is something where um to be fair, >> you know, Lisa's new and is still trying to get through everything. >> Yes. >> But she has a line on our spreadsheet for like what's been expended >> from the beginning of the fiscal year through the end of January. >> Excellent. and the equipment line has

074$11. Um, is that something that's very cyclical, like very seasonal? Do you spend all in one shot? You know, uh, it's confusing cuz I don't I don't have a huge problem with the number. The question would be, do you buy things all in one shot in the spring or something like that or is it really as you need it? >> As we need it. So, it's like throughout the year as we need it. Um, we may need um I'm just trying to think like we need like OSHA, I don't know if you guys knew this, came through our shop last year right before I got there. Um, OSHA actually visited >> I remember this. Yes, they >> You guys actually do quite well if members >> um Yeah, we didn't get fined very much at

075all, but but we had to bring a lot of stuff up to compliance. So, we like our uh they call them sump chains. When we uh go to lift a catch basin up, there's these chains that are certified, have to be certified, and every year uh the chains that they had were no were basically out of date. So, they had to throw all their chains out and buy all new ones. And I believe it came out of that equipment account. Uh so it's it's stuff like that that they're we're buying out of that. >> Yeah. So I mean just looking looking at this from my perspective, um if we're not spending like looking back at the at the spreadsheet, right, >> if we >> it is up. >> It looks like that in past years

076we have spent seven or 8,000. So it's not crazy. It's just this year it didn't look like we had expended much. So, I don't have a huge problem with it. I just want to, you know, are we in fact spending that money? Does it need to be eight, you know, going forward is is a question that comes to my mind. If we if we haven't really spent it this past year, maybe this past year we were a little disrupted. We had all turnover, etc. Maybe we haven't really done it. Fine. It also could be we had that inspection, we did a burst of spending and now we're good for a bit. That's why I asked the question. Does it need >> I think Lisa knows what I've spent in that account because again I don't

077have it in front of me. >> 570. Yep. >> Okay. >> So far this year 570 >> I didn't hear that. >> 57070 >> less than you know you know again. So >> if you look at it from the standpoint of an $8,000 budget. >> Oh I understand. But to be fair, if you look back on the spreadsheet >> the past couple years, >> yes, >> it's another story. You you 7,900 6,900. >> So, I am not of the opinion that I would suddenly slash this to the bone. I'm I'm just saying, >> okay, >> do we need to be there? That's all. All right. So, like it looks like this last year, we haven't spent a ton there. We we did obviously I remember us react. I do remember that. Oh, It was funny.

078Eric gave us a briefing on it and um you know it was one of these things where >> the the line that we got was >> the ocean inspectors basically live to find something and they could find almost nothing. Uh and we had very little to do. It was actually really gratifying. >> It's not all the towns fared that well, let me tell you. >> Right. Exactly. >> Anywhere because they were in Salem also. They surprised us in Salem, too. Yeah. Yeah, we did surprisingly well all things considered. If you get a surprise inspection like that. So, no, that was very, very good. And I'm not ripping anybody. I'm just looking at the spreadsheet and thinking myself, you know, is there a couple thousand bucks here that doesn't need to be there. So, that's all

079my that's all that's it. We spent about 500 bucks. So, >> no, I listen I I understand. >> Yeah, >> I totally understand it. Um on the membership uh $75 um we left that flat. That's basically uh for like membership fees uh here and there. There was some money taken out of that to send uh one of the members to uh the tree warden school out of that, but that was before I got here. So I don't know why it was taken out of that, not something else. But that again that was before me. Maybe we had some money built up there cuz it looks like we spent we wildly over spent that this year. Yes. >> And it looks like my guess, and Lisa can correct me on this, but my guess would be

080we built up some money somewhere else and they used it for that. >> Okay. Again, this was all this I saw this when I got here. So, this was put into place sometime in se July, August, September, I believe. >> Um, >> all right. Uh moving on for the snow removal account that's uh 4307 thing was in last July, but I don't know why they put it there unless they just didn't have anywhere else to put it. I don't I don't know. >> Yeah, I don't know either. I had a question. >> We think it would be under training or something, but I guess there's no training here. >> Unfortunately, that's an Eric question. Eric's gone, so We'll have to try to figure it out, but >> Okay. >> Uh, sorry. So, back to snow

081removal, which seems rather topical since we've >> I have to imagine we've blown that budget this year. >> Yes. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Yes. >> Um, >> so for too long. >> For the overtime, which you guys know we're way over. Um, again, that's 23,950. I would estimate another 3% uh for the negotiated contract. Um ice uh ice maintenance building that's more um the the uh pallet of sand, excuse me, salt that we buy through Leco. Um it actually went up per bag. I had usually there's 48 bags on a pallet and I could only buy 46 because we only had $600 in that. They wouldn't they wouldn't uh >> Are we even getting it? I mean, we had this little issue where they were trying it in the I got it in

082the fall. So, um the bag so everybody was out and we had plenty of it. So, we use that for the you know the town hall. We use it, you know, for the >> walkway. This is this is a different category. >> Oh, something totally different >> on our big pile of >> Yeah. No. Oh, that's a small pile now. Yeah. >> Um I was this close to putting that stuff in our trucks almost. It got down that bad. Um you laughed. A lot of contractors were doing that because they weren't selling to the they weren't selling to the contractors in town delivery and they're like, "Yeah, they're coming next week. They're coming next week." >> Yeah. Yeah. I got the same thing. Um the the supplies, that's our plow blades. Um initial right now

083it's at 4,800. I'm asking for 6,500. Uh the reason for that is the we run what I don't know if you guys know this. We run two blades on the trucks on the big trucks. One's a carbide and then one's a steel blade in front of that. So we run two blades. The carbide actually what it does is it takes longer to wear it down. Um carbide is through the roof right now. Um for some reason China's one of the biggest suppliers of it and they're mad at us allegedly. this is what my suppliers are telling me and they're they're mad about these tariff things and they're saying, "Oh, the heck the heck with you? The heck with us? Oh, the heck with you." So, we know you need carbide. We're going to we're going

084to give it to you at a premium. Um, so that's what that is. Uh, sanding equipment, $800. Um, I'm leaving that at $800. That's basically um for like uh oh that's basically for um we have a couple like sanders that we that we use um and fix um sand the road sand $2,500. Um I'm leaving that flat at 2500 bucks. Although if you guys have noticed because we ran out of we were very low on salt. I ended up mixing sand salt. So you guys probably see old school sand on the road. I actually ended up using that line item to mix sand salt. Um the salt budget 68,000. Um I'm leaving that flat at the moment. Um just because it's not that we didn't weren't it's not that we didn't have the money, it's

085just we weren't able to get it. Um that's we were I was very close to running out a couple times and that's a story for another time. But um I'm going to do something different this year. I'm going to try to get two vendors so we don't have this problem again. So at least if worst case scenario if uh because Morton is our vendor right now. Um if we can't get it through them then I'll have another supplier to at least get something. um meals that $850 as you got I'm asking for $100 more as you guys know you've been out to a restaurant lately everything's through the roof um so what that is the per the contract um when we plow snow the guys work over a certain amount they actually get a breakfast

086and they get a uh they get a dinner so a lot of times what we do is we have places that'll actually feed us we go to Shady Glenn for like breakfast in the morning for a meal meal at night. We'll go to like Andover Pizza and it comes out of that and that's basically about it in a nutshell. >> Do you want the price of what the overtime was and the salt was? Does that help? >> Sure. No, I don't. >> The overtime right now is at 46,000 and we budgeted 23. So, we're over 23,000. So that's something that you know brings me to something I was thinking about for later which comes down to you know what do we have in our fund balances and what do we have in our contingency and

087everything. I mean I don't know how we're doing in the rest of the budget. Sometimes we come in under some places and we can shift some money around but if we can't then that's contingency money right there. How much do you plan on buying of salt? Because your salt is only at 35 and you budgeted 68. Are you going to buy more for next year before June 30th? >> Oh, yes. I'm going to go I want to what what I have left isn't even going to fill our salt shed. I'd like to fill that salt shed so we're good going into the next year. So, I have an order right now. I couldn't get the treated salt, so I have an order in for white salt. Um, I'm expecting one more truckload and then you'll

088you'll see the bills for that. Um, that's going to be around 17 grand. And then we have one I have another order of 200 ton for uh the treated salt coming in and that'll that'll eat the rest of that 68,000 up. >> Okay. >> Um, I do as as the board of finance and again I may come I know like I said my overtime's way out there. Um, I'd like to have that salt shed filled before going into next season. Um, because if we have to fill it starting, right, our season off, that doesn't end well for everybody. >> Yeah. No, no question. And the reason I mean, the reason I ask about these things is >> every year this town has a $50,000 contingency fund. So far we have oh we have a weird

089thing on the on the spreadsheet of 2,000 bucks but we we actually haven't tapped it at all this year. Typically in a good year we don't tap it at all. Now in a lot of years what'll happen is we'll have an overage somewhere but somewhere else we'll have something come in under and we can move money around and plug the hole. I don't know if that's the case this year. And it's important because when we go to our capital budget, which is something I really want to focus on soon with this board, you know, if we have $50,000 in contingency we're not going to use, the answer is to roll it. Whereas, if you look at our budget spreadsheet right now, it has us loading another $50,000 into it like we spent it. And and

090that's not that's not right. That's not how it should work. But if we are in fact tens of thousands of dollars over in public works overtime because of the snowstorms, >> okay, >> and we don't have anywhere to pull that from, then that is going to come from contingency and and we need to know that. So Lisa, we got to we got to figure that out sooner rather than >> Did you see in the the audit, Rob, did you see in the audit the unassigned fund amount is in that audit does list it. So, but I mean that's January 30th, 25. >> June 30th, 25. >> Sorry. Did I Did I say January? Yeah, >> I meant June. >> Where'd you get that from? >> Yeah. >> Out of out of nowhere. June 30th, 2025.

091So, obviously many months ago >> and then things have happened since then. >> Yep. But it'll be determined that'll be determined, you know, with what you have left from this year adding or subtracting from from the unassigned contingency. I you know contingency I've only ever seen it as it's actually an account that we put $10,000 in. We don't put it in capital. We don't reserve it or any that's what I've ever done. >> So I mean we always have we have 50,000 in there any given year. And usually we don't use it and usually we roll it over. >> Um and look I went through all the fund balances in that audit. >> Okay. I looked at them all and there are some ones that I have picked out that I really want to talk

092about at some point. um in terms of where they were then and what's happened in the last 8 months, where we are now, where we're headed, you know, that kind of cuz there's there are a few funds in there where there's significant dollars that it's not clear to me that need to necessarily be there and we should talk about them. But when it comes to an overage like this, when it comes to I mean, we know this can happen. We always know this can happen. You get some snowtorrms It happens where we're going to pull that from. In the past, what would happen is our time would come to us and say, "Look, it we're way over on um snow removal overtime, but guess what? We're under here, here, here, and here, and we can

093make it whole." I don't know if that's true this year. We need to sort that because otherwise we're pulling from contingency, right? And then that affects our capital budget. So that's what I'm getting at. We need to sort out because obviously we have to pay those bills and we're well over we're well over the budgeted amount. So we need to find that from somewhere else. One of the things I' I've noticed like just when I got here with the overtime um I again I don't know if you guys know this. I worked for Coventry for uh 22 years. Um, so I kind of knew the guys when I started in Coventry here and there was only three guys. There was a foreman and two workers in a nutshell. So I'm one now there's now there's

094myself which I don't get overtime but now there's four workers. >> Um, so I wonder if the if that number reflects the four guys or does that number reflect past years where we only had two or three people? >> No, we've had four for a bit now, I think. Okay, >> I think we're fully I think we're fully adjusted to that. I I could be wrong, but I I'm pretty sure we've been at that >> higher level of staffing. >> Okay. Okay. >> But, you know, we got what what it boils down to is we got a couple of ridiculously mild winters. >> Yes. >> Yo, I know. So we got away with we got away with a lot and then we got this winter which was more normal from at least normal for me

095anyway from my age and all of a sudden rut row. Um but no we we went through a stretch there three four years where I feel like we we got hardly any stuff. What's up Liz? >> You're you're muted. The other thing that happened too. >> Um, yeah. So, the other thing, and now that I just unmuted myself, I maximized my view and I can't get back to what I wanted to. Hold on. Um, exit full screen. The other thing I was thinking, and maybe Lynn uh can help me with this. Did I say Lynn? >> Yeah. >> Lisa. Lisa. Sorry. I keep wanting to say that and I know it's wrong. Um, okay. >> What is our what is our year to date on the community center? Because I'm concerned that we're overbudget in

096that as well. >> Let me look. >> Which number in particular are you looking? >> It's uh well in salaries it's >> in the salary part. So 4214 community center, not the senior center. >> Yes. 4214. Correct. >> Okay. Um, we're over 13,000 in salary for wages. Director, >> um, one thing I will say is if we are set with Eric, we could let him go. >> We could, we could. I just wanted to point out, >> does anyone have anything further for Eric? >> Nothing to do budget-wise, just a curiosity question. What's the difference between treated salt and untreated? And why do we use one or the other? And how much more is treated than untreated? >> Right. Um, All right. As it stands right now, treated salt is the what we're buying it

097for is almost $10 a ton more. Um, regular white salt, untreated salt, only works down to maybe about 18°. Um, the treated salt, it depends on what type you have. Some of it can work down to like six degrees. the the green stuff, the clear lane, the stuff that really rot your car out is uh that'll work down to like minus 10. So that's we've had we all all our trucks, I don't know if you guys know this or not, have road temp sensors in them. So when we're driving around, we can actually look and it'll tell us the temperature of the road. Um that helps a lot because then we know what type of salt and material we need and how much material we need to put out. Speaking of somebody whose suspension got

098completely rotted out by salt, I actually am not sad about us buying the old stuff. Uh, I got to tell you, wrecked my car. Oh my god. Uh, I had all I had three control arms go. It was bad. So, hey. Uh, and honestly, it makes a lot of sense if we can't get the other stuff. I understand why we buy the the high test, but if you're not How often do we get to six degrees? >> Well, again, you would you would be amazed. It's it's crazy. You wouldn't think it. Um and I'm going to tell you guys this and it's nuts. The the frost in a road is thicker than the frost in your uh in your yard because the frost in your yard this winter was was under two feet of snow.

099The road was probably like four feet down. So the road and what happens is the road actually holds the cold more. So if we if it's 30 deg if it's 35 degrees and it's raining the road temperature could be 30 degrees and you're sliding all over the place. So it's it's it's a weird balance. >> That's how you get those frost eaves and everything. I mean towns and roads a bit of a mess right now. >> Um >> towns hall is horrible. Fortunately, it's coming back down, but >> it's not got lucky on Gilead, but I think Townsen took a beating this year. >> Yes, it did. >> Um, but the the white salt, what some uh towns will do is they'll actually start running that like sometimes you get like late uh November storms

100and or warm storms, so they'll use that and then they transition over and then like now where it's starting to warm up a little bit, we transition back to the white salt. Um, the problem with us is our barn really isn't big enough to accommodate that because this winter we went right in the cold. It there was no, as you guys know, oh, just a little, you know, taste of nothing. No, once it snowed, it didn't stop and it got brutally cold and that was it. So, if we had half our barn full of white salt, we might have been in trouble. What I did was as the white salt came in, I mixed it with our treated salt. So, it gave it a little more uh sticking power to melt the stuff. Um the

101big the last big storm that we had um because we were so low, I initially went out with treated salt and then I had the guys run sand salt only where they needed to. And then in the very end of the storm, we ran treated salt again. And that what that did was it broke up all the snow pack. Um typically you can run the the salt throughout the whole storm, but we just didn't have it. So, >> I mean, just speaking for myself, uh, my road, I think you guys did fine. Honestly, it all seemed pretty, it seemed like it worked. Um, the guys, I'm I'm very lucky to have a good crew. There's no doubt about it. They they did extraordinary this winter. So, all right. Does anyone have any further questions for

102Eric? So, you know, if if not, I'd like to let him go. Thank you, Eric. >> Yeah. Can I ask one more Can I ask one more quick question? >> Um I I know last year or in private pri prior years there was discussion about the guys being able to do maintenance some maintenance and work on the trucks. Is that still the case with you know under your um supervision or or Yes. How does that work? >> Yes. So, we're I I my me coming out of Coventry, I was a I was a mechanic there for many years as well. So, I understand the workings of all the stuff. Um there's a there's a young kid there, Zach Zto. He is a phenomenal mechanic and we're very lucky to have him. Um he actually worked

103on like uh like the same thing, the big trucks and all that other stuff. So, he knows those trucks in and out as well. So, we can do a lot of work inhouse with the with the bigger trucks. Um, but there's times where we just don't have the software and we have to call Freight Liner or Peterbuilt or bring our uh our smaller trucks to De Boyce and they have to read the, you know, read the codes and everything like that. Sometimes they can read them, we pay them, and then we can fix it and other times we just don't have the tools or equipment to to maintain it. So, >> Okay, great. Thank you so much. This was very informative. All right, Eric, thank you very much. >> I just have one more question

104and uh Robert, if you don't mind, did you guys >> did you guys uh I I also sent like a like a capital thing over. >> Yes. >> Or is that a different meeting al together? >> I I honestly I glanced at I really haven't had time to digest it. >> Okay, then that's fine. I don't want to gum stuff up. >> No, it's fine. Oh, no. That's actually really important though because I keep banging on about our capital budget. So, fair enough. We That's something we have to talk about because I don't think the public works equipment fund has as much money in it. >> And so, you know, looking at the audit, there's not much there. >> Okay. >> Again, I just want this on your guys' radar just so >> absolutely >>

105if something happens, you guys know. Say, "Hey, you know, there's nothing worse than being blindsided. I'd rather you guys know about this upfront than, you know, if something did go bang, at least you'd be like, "Oh, yeah, you know, he did say something about it." >> No, first of all, excellent. Second, um, when you have time, when you have the ability, I think it would be good to bring that before CIP. >> Okay. >> Um, to give us your So, it's sort of your your capital plan. um we know what equipment that you think is aging and might need replacement and and then we need to look at what's in that fund cuz again uh looking at the last audit I just don't think there's very much money in there >> so if we are

106looking at some expenditures we need to really think about what we need to load in there >> okay >> now is there anything that is that is I guess the the one thing I'll ask before I let you go >> is is Is there anything that's flashing red >> like >> disaster like we need to deal with right now? >> Yes, as a matter of fact, there's there there's two of them and then there's like two of like a wish list that I have, but one of them is our uh fuel fuel management system. Um what that does is and Lisa knows this from her last job and I've had this conversation with her. Um we're working on basically a dialup system to track our fuel. Um, this it takes it probably takes me a

107good almost two hours to get the information out to track our fuel. Um, it's basically dialup in a nutshell. Um, the parts are obsolete for it. And if this thing goes boom, um, I'm going to have to put a mailbox out at our fuel pump with a clipboard and everybody's going to have to write down what truck they put in, what the mileage is, and what the, uh, you know, how much how much fuel they put in. Um, you have to remember too that the buses also chew off this along with the fire department. It's not just public works. Um that's again the system was put in I believe in like 2002. Um we've had I I've had a problem with it already. I had to call service station equipment to come out and the

108kid that came out to look at it said he remembers playing with a system like this when he was in fourth grade. So um there's also on on each piece of equipment and each vehicle there's a key system for it. So, you actually take this plastic key, you insert it, you put a code in, and it tells you so they know who who's pumping fuel and what vehicle it's going in. The there's spare keys, but we do not have the code reader. As it's to to program these keys, as it stands right now, the buses are running on one key. If that key goes down, that's it. They're gonna have to we're gonna have to put it in uh in override mode and we're gonna have to do the clipboard system and you know how

109accurate that'll be. Um >> if I can say I did like that system and he's right. There's fobs for it and there's codes for everything and we did the same. We took the whole oil tank out, replace the pumps and everything. So it was a lot more than the 12,000. But I did like the system. It's a GI system that I used and it was very helpful trying to allocate cost at the pumps. Um it's well as you know Lisa do it's a cloud-based system too so it would go right to you know your computer or your assistant treasurer. I wouldn't even I could just look to see what I got. Um Datco I believe is our fuel is our um people for that run the buses. It could go right to them. So it

110wouldn't even we could see what they're doing but it it would just bypass a lot of stuff. Um but again this this system is is not good. So, I just like to keep that on your guys' radar. Um, the other thing, too, is on we have we actually have two buildings at our public works facility. I don't know if you guys know that. If you're looking at our building from the road to the right, there's like a cold storage building. Um, the roof on that is basically gone. Um, it's going to need a replacement. We're at a tipping point right now where if we don't replace the roof, then we're going to have to tear that piece of the building down. Um, I did get a price for that. I didn't get three bids. Again,

111this is just pricing for put it on your guys' radar. I got a price to replace that roof minus any um um plywood for like 27 grand. Um the the fuel management system, I apologize, I'm going to go back to that. That was about 12. That was almost 125 to replace that system. And there's a $400 charge, I think, for the uh the uh to teach us and to do uh for a cloud-based fee or something like that. But those are my two those are my two biggest ones. I have two more, but it's just more of a wish list. One is like a small pickup and another one is a heat pump for the for the garage that we're in just because, you know, electric's through the roof. Uh it's just what we have

112right now, like I was telling you with our uh our um AC system from 1985 and our electric heat. Um it's just very inefficient way to to cool that heat and cool that part of the building. So again, just things to keep on your guys radar if something does go boom. That's all. >> I want that. and and Lisa, um there's a a fund when I look at the audit, there's something called equipment reserve fund. Is that in fact our public works equip >> I was just looking here to looking at my part of it, but I mean I guess it could not fire, you know what I mean? >> There's there's there's there's a lot of funds and I'm trying to get my mind around which ones are the ones we need to be

113looking at. And one of them is equipment reserve fund and end of the year. So again, June 30th, 2025, $13,000 28 $13,28 left in it. If that's the sit, if that's the fund that I'm thinking of, right? What he's talking about, I mean, there's not enough money in there. Um, now when we look at our spreadsheet, when we look at we have a a we we call it something different on the spreadsheet. We call it public works equipment fund. And the last few years we've loaded $125,000 into that annually. >> You're talking in capital, right? Correct. >> Yeah. Again, I'm looking at capital. Capital is Capital's really important. capital's a million dollars a year give or take >> every year, right? >> Correct. So, I I really want to look at that hard this year

114given what a difficult year it is and what I'm seeing in the audit. So, I you know, I look at this and I say, "Okay, look, we have some needs. I want to make sure we're covered and and I look at the audit and some of these funds. I have some real questions about whether we need to put more money in them because they have money in there. But this one, if equipment reserve fund is the one that I think it is, if I've got it right, because there's also a town garage fund. So, this is a little confusing. There's an equipment reserve fund and there's a town garage fund. >> So, now you see my plate. That's a little confusing. Oh my gosh. >> Uhhuh. I would really like to hear about this. >>

115It's in in two QuickBooks. That's the problem. It's in two Quickbooks. >> 13,000 in one of them and you've got >> uh 27 Oh, not quite 27 in the other. So, you've got almost 40,000 there. And then it the question becomes when we we try to tally that up with our spreadsheet our spreadsheet doesn't actually match specifically to those funds and um h how are we handling that? So he you know we have our public works director telling us we have these two needs for X dollars. Okay, we need to plan for that but I also need to know what the heck we have in these funds. So, and you know, with all due respect, you know, why why I'm asking you these things. >> So, you know, the more we can get on that,

116the better >> because we need to sort that. Um, I know we have that roof. Like, that roof's been an issue for years, >> a long time. >> Like, I'm not even questioning the need. Uh, I know we've got our salt and sand issues and stuff from from these snowstorms. So, you know, I I just want to make sure that we know what we have so that then we can say, okay, if we need X, we need Y to put in. And right now, I don't feel like we know that that that that X. So, that's where where I'm at. And Eric, you're correct. >> We're going to do our best, you know, to get you guys what you need. >> I'm just saying, you know, right now where we are, we don't know enough

117right now to make the decision. So, we'll get back to you on that, but thank you for I I appreciate the rundown, you know, giving us I I always want that heads up and I always want that and to the extent that you can bring that to CIP and tell us uh uh because I'm I'm the board of finance member who is part of the capital improvement committee. When we talk about that stuff, it's really helpful to say, "Look, the next five years, this is what we're looking at. We got an ancient piece of equipment. we've got this, we've got that, and then we can plan and then we can take it to board of finance. It's the process and it really helps. >> I understand. >> No, I' I again, I've been in a

118couple towns. I understand it doesn't, you know, happen overnight. I just I just I'm very communive and I like to at least put these two things I know that are going to need attention like sooner than later, I I'll say. So, at least if it if our fuel system did go bang, you guys aren't going, "Hey, you never told us." >> No surprises. No surprises. We like that. That's good. Uh, no. Tell us. Obviously, tell us sooner rather than later. So, thank you. Uh, does anyone have further questions for Eric before we let him go? Kim? Anybody? >> I'm all set. You're good. I'm good. Nick, >> I'm all set. Thank you. >> All right, Eric. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. So, you know, guys, just back to that that issue of the

119capital funds. Um, something I sat down, I spent a couple hours today going through the audit, and I accept that. By the way, it's a preliminary, right? This isn't the final audit, but this is the draft. I don't expect these figures are going to change dramatically or anything, but, you know, this is what we're looking at. And there are some fund balances here that I think we should look at because I know we're we're in a tough budget year. We're in a rough year. I I if you take the current ask from the town, from the school, and from the regional school and you plug it all in and then you keep our capital where it was last year, we're looking at a 9.5% tax increase. Just That's a lot. So, I'm looking at these

120funds and I'm like, >> okay, so I look at things and now some of these funds I know between the end of last fiscal year, again, June 30th, 2025, that's months and months ago. I know things have changed. For instance, the fire equipment fund, we had $435,000 in there. However, I know because I was on this board that we approved almost $240,000 in spending from that account for their new breathing apparatus in their kitchen uh repairs. Right? So, if I'm my math is correct, bear with me. I am literally backing this out on a calculator. The fire equipment fund has 196,000 bucks left in it. I think um and we know of course that we have to spend $137,000 a year to pay for the fire truck. That's that's a lease that's locked in. We

121have to spend that. We have according to this spreadsheet, according to the sorry the audit, you know, there was $425,000 in the M multi-use building fund. Now, that fund was originally intended to help us build a community center, right? But we threw the ARPA funds at that. So, it raises the question, do we need $425,000 in that fund or or rather, >> do we need to keep contributing >> depending on what we spent this year? Because I know there's some more stuff that needs to happen at that community center. So, don't get me wrong. Did we spend some more? what that real what is that number really? But that said, do we need all that money in there as an and let me just finish those because I got a couple more and then and

122then by all means go ahead. Um, >> yep. >> Road improvement fund and town a road fund. We have two road funds apparently. >> I don't think I fully realized that in the past. According to the audit, at the end of last fiscal year, we had $323,000 in the road improvement fund and 117 almost $118,000 in the town aid road fund, which is $440,000. Now, >> how much how much in the road improvement? 300 what? >> Uh 323. >> Okay. 9. >> Thank you. >> 323009. >> Okay. and then 117906 in Town A Road Fund. Put those together, it's about 440. I'm rounding. Okay. So now less expenditures of course since then, but also those money you loaded money into those too or at least into uh the the road improvement fund and then we

123get town a road money from the state. So, I've always been under the impression that we basically spent whatever came in on rubber. But if if that's not quite so, if we do in fact have $400 plus thousand dollars built up there, we should consider what we're doing in terms of loading into that fund. Similarly, the Bunker Hill Road Bridge Fund, according to this audit, we had almost $440,000 in that sitting there at the end of last year. Now, my recollection is that the Bunker Hill Bridge, number one, it's a it's a completely it's one of those things where we had to lay out money, but we got all back. And two, >> did we get it back yet? >> Project's done. >> No, Robert. Robert, can I can I dump? >> Yeah. Yeah. Go

124ahead. Go ahead. >> Okay. So, what is working? What's happening here is the money that we had to frontload to do Parker Bridge, not Parker Bridge, Bunker Hill. >> Bunker Hill. Bunker Hill. >> You get reimbursed that. When that job's done, Long Hill comes along. We have to have the money up front to do Long Hill. So, as the money comes back, that's to do a multi-million dollar long hill bridge, which starts this spring. This money isn't just extra money laying around by any means. >> Okay. As far as the road fund goes, Robert, let me just continue for a minute. >> Yeah. >> As far as Well, let me continue with that one. So, what happens then is when that job gets done, there's culverts in town that cost over a million dollars a

125piece to do. There's Lake Road, Bosola, there's uh Long there's uh Bear Swamp, there's uh Honchinson, there's there's a whole bunch of culverts that are failing that when Long Hill's done, the money that comes back to us will do those culvert projects. Okay? So that's how Eric had that all set up to work so we can do these jobs. As far as the road fund goes, the reason we've been funding that all these years is it costs over a million dollars to do one mile of road. I mean, you're sawing the road here, Eric. What does it cost to pave a road? So we only have our roads in some kind of decent condition, but they're going to keep on failing and failing and failing and wearing out. And you don't want to suddenly wake

126up and they say all their roads are again. So, you're building up a road fund so that you can take care of these roads. >> I am 110% in favor of us continuing to hammer away on our roads. Like, we've made progress and it's so good and I want so much more of it. I just want to know what we have versus what was coming down the pike in spending. Visa vunker hill road. Fair enough. We have another We might just want to rename the fund. You know, the reason I bring this up though, Bill, is this bridge and Culver's a separate fund, right? We got, according to the audit, half a million dollars in that. Now, I don't for a moment think half a million dollars in Bridge and Culver is enough. >> But

127if you had if you had, and this is my thinking, and I'm just going to preface this by saying what Bill said complicates this. If you had $440,000 sitting in a fund that you could close out and you had 420 $520,000 sitting in another fund, put them together, it's almost a million dollars. It's $955. However, we have that other that other rather bridge that we have to do that is a it's another one of those Bunker Hill projects, right, where we lay it out and they give it back to us, >> right? Okay. So, fair enough. The Bunker Hill Bridge money probably has to roll over into that. >> Okay. >> That's what the plan. >> I'm not uh you know, again, fine. That I don't have a problem with that. I just wanted to

128ask the question. In terms of bridging culverts, if we do have half a million dollars built up, great. If we have um the bricks project we're going to embark upon is like Bunker Hill where we'll lay it out but we'll get it back. Then we should think about when we plan for bridges and culverts right ultimately we get that money back and we can load it in to that bridges. I mean, I would think the natural place for that money to go, right, would be to bridge the culvers once we're done, and I don't know how long that's going to take. So, fair enough. That's not this budget year, obviously. Um, as for the road money, again, I don't have any problem. I I want to I want to go like gang busters on our

129roads. I would be thrilled if we could do even more road work than we do. The issue that I have is if we had, you know, as you know, Bill, we put in about $400,000 a year into our road fund, right? 385 last year, but usually we try to shoot for 400, >> right? >> But if we have between these two funds, 440 sitting there, then I ask the question, are we did we not spend it? And and this is where I need Lisa. This is where and there's everybody understand I'm looking at an audit that only gets us through June 30th of 2025. It's eight months ago, right? I'm looking at this and I'm like, you know, I know we've spent some of this money. >> Yeah. Because I'm looking into Bunker Hill and

130what's in QuickBooks that I'm trying to understand. And there's been a lot of activity in Bunker Hill. >> I bet there has because we're we're putting money out and they're giving us money back. >> Yeah. No doubt. My main question. So my main to to focus this Lisa couple questions. One is the two road funds. I'm a little confused. One is Town Aid Road which seems to be the fund. I assume that's the fund where the state gives us money and we plunk it down into that because that's where we got to put it. We have to find places to put it. So we put it there. And then we have road improvement fund, which I assume, and correct me if I'm wrong, is when we as a town vote to say in a given

131budget year to put $400,000 towards our roads, that's where that money goes. Is that right? >> I'm thinking that and we always did that. We always duck 400,000. And we would use depending on the public work director, we would use some years would roll over a couple years worth, but in the most recent year that I was there, we went through we were down pretty low to get rid of all of that. Now, the first question, what was the first um the first fund you were talking about again? >> Sorry, back to the roads. Um, we have two road funds. Road improvement fund and town a road fund. >> Town road sounds like the grant. >> It does. And I don't understand that that either. It's in a separate account here. We never did that.

132You just put it up in revenue and then when you you know you used it towards your roads, >> right? We have never we have never put our town a road me road money in revenue. Now why we didn't >> it should right I what I always did I put it when those governmental those governmental revenues that was listed right in there with those >> it it it honestly I think it should be there but the point is according to our audit at the end of the last fiscal year we had almost $118,000 sitting in that fund. you would expect it to be spent, but apparently the end of last year it wasn't. So the only reason I asked the question, I mean, this isn't I'm not trying to be a nerdy about this, but

133if we have $18,000 sitting in a fund for road work, we ought to use it for road work. Should we should we transfer it, you know, or spend it, you know, on our >> I don't think you can transfer it anywhere. >> Yeah. And then and then >> it has to be for roads. >> The road improvement fund according to the last audit at the end of the fiscal year of last year, we had $323,000 in it. >> So here's, let me back up and explain my mindset. I always of the uh was always of the belief that basically every dollar we threw at roads got spent. You know, we we have an infinite amount that we could spend on our roads, frankly, because of how far behind we were. So, I just sort of

134assumed if we put $400,000 in our budget in a given fiscal year, we would spend that money like that. And it doesn't seem to have happened. And so that's where I think to myself, all right, hold on a moment. If we actually have $400 plus th,000 sitting in funds, I'm not against I I still want to fund our roads, but what do we need to load in this year? If a little bit of a different question than if I thought those funds were zeroed out. You see what I'm saying? >> I totally get what you're saying. I mean, but what all I've ever seen is Yep. every year might go from like 380 to 420, but every year that's what was put into roads and it eventually got used. We had capital, we could leave

135capital there and not touch it for two years. You had to touch it within two years. It goes back in general. That was our policy and our charter. I don't know what it is here. I haven't had a chance to dig into all that, >> but they pretty much because they figured roads always needed improvements, always needed repairs. But that's >> we're always it always feels like we're we're just catching up. So don't get me wrong on that. I I am 100% supportive of getting our roads in order. >> But Rob, what what I think they're trying to do is they're trying to build a road fund because >> $400,000 is nothing. It's nothing. >> Cost millions of dollars to do one mile of road. >> I know >> they're trying to do is they're

136trying to build up every year and put money into the road fund. So when you got to pave a road or miles and miles and miles. So it's not like you're going to use the 400,000 every year. It's a road fund that you're building up so you can do big road projects. >> Yeah. I I don't disagree with that, Bill. I just I think I had a different concept in my head and I I wanted to just talk about it. Um but you know, I I don't again I'm with you. I know there are roads in this town that uh when we get through some of the other work where we have to just rebuild a road and it's super expensive and I I know that. So like again I'm not >> I'm not criticizing.

137I'm just trying to sort out what the heck we have >> and then what we need to get a bill yeah from from road work. It would be one road. It would be $299,000 and that's one road. could spend a million bucks a mile if you, you know, if you're doing it right, you know, really, uh, the the full rebuild asphalt. >> I think I mean, they walked us through this a couple years ago. It's staggeringly expensive. >> So, don't get me wrong, I'm not against it. I want to figure out what we have. >> Um, multi-use building fund, you know, again, >> do we have $425,000 in that fund? Because that's what the audit says from last year. Um, >> I'm actually looking I think it looks pretty I'm not going to guarantee it,

138but I'm looking in one of the QuickBooks and it it's pretty close to that. Whereas the roads I'm not seeing as much as you're talking about, but I don't see town town a road. The only town part that I wrote improvement I see is like two something two 200 something. >> Yeah, we may have spent again this is it. This is the issue, right? to June 30th. You know, we've spent money. Fine. And I'm all for us. >> I want us to do that real work. If we if we spend every penny of this, >> I'm good. That's great. We need that. Um but the multi-use building fund, that one I I keep coming back to because I'm like, "Wait a minute. That was originally intended for the um the community center. We've built that."

139Now, I know we've got a few things we still got to do there, but I don't know that we have $425,000 worth of work to do there. >> I wonder though, I don't know how they applied the revenue because didn't some of that most of that get paid for with ARPA? >> ARPA. >> So, I don't >> we used We took a million dollar almost a million dollars of ARPA funds and built that building. >> Y >> that building still needs a couple things. It still needs uh some kitchen work. >> Yep. >> Just kitchen work. it needs and and there's discussion about the ground floor the the basement ground floor level. That said, the reason I bring it up is 425 is a big number. I don't think the kitchen is yet anywhere near

140the even you know even so we have to consider as a board do we need that much money in there or should we take say by the way this is a completely madeup number should we take $200,000 out of that and put it somewhere else >> but can you do that does I like I said I haven't we you would have to have a vote on that I thought I don't know what >> we would vote we would absolutely have to vote on that >> okay I was gonna say because if it's dedicated to And the other thing I wanted to say >> we we can do fund balance transfers though. We we we do have that authority. >> Lar taught permit. That's >> I I wanted to say I don't know if the ARPA

141funds are applied or not applied to that balance. That's why I want to make sure that balance is correct. >> Okay, fair enough, Lisa. We can run that down. >> But I do >> I mean I know you want to use whatever you can for revenue. I I get that. I just want to be careful that we're doing it properly. That's all. 100% agree with you. I do not believe there's a penny of ARPA money in that fund. >> I don't think that's how that worked at all. >> No. And it's okay if there is because it it's like that's where it should be, but now you still have to spend it on that building. That's >> correct. Then it's then it's earmarked. No, no, no, no. I I really don't think that's how it

142went down. >> Okay. >> All right. >> I just haven't had a chance to look. That said, I am open to the possibility I'm wrong and we should run it down. Um, the other ones are like, you know, again, fire equipment, I think we the last audit again, $435,700 in there, but I know that we spent about this year on their breathing air apparatus and kitchen repairs. So, if my math is right, we've got 196 left. Um, and I know the fire department, of course, we always want to try to stay ahead of the next thing. And the next thing we know we have a $65,000 compressor request coming from them, that sort of thing. So, when we talk about what we load into the fire equipment fund, if we've got if I'm right and

143we have 196 in there and we have 65,000 coming from a compressor and assuming we approve it, you know, then we know what we've got. We can say to ourselves, okay, we have 130. >> What did you say you show in that in the fund? So according to the last audit at the end of the last fiscal year >> in the fire equipment fund 435700 right >> but I know from being on this board we approved the expenditure for um new breathing apparatus >> $290,000 yeah has come out since July. >> Right. So what I Oh 290 >> yeah there's an there's a fire equipment payment that came out to Mnt equipment lease in September. >> Uhhuh. And then there's $163,000 that came out to municipal emergency services for the breathing. I think there's >>

144right there's about $400,000 there, Rob, because you're looking at June and we spend money, >> but we put money in, too. We put 137 in. >> So the 137 should cover the lease payment. >> There's also another 7,000 and another 600, >> right? Right. >> What what I was getting to is this. >> The 137 that we load in every year, >> that's locked in. That's the lease payment, right? >> I'm not going to touch that, right? No question. >> That has to pay for the firetruck. >> So, you're going to see that going out every year. 137 I believe is the number. What I had in my notes and clearly it's not quite right is I had 22192 for the breathing apparatus and I had 17,386 for their kitchen repair work. >> So that

145came to 239 378 but 240 let's just run it up. >> That's what I had. So, if we have more than that going out and it's not the firet truck and then I'm missing something and Okay. >> Well, what is that? I haven't had a chance to look. What is that? Mnt equipment lease. That's not the fire truck. Or are these parts? >> Wait. Well, how much was the Mnt thing? >> 120,000 3115. >> Sounds like the fire truck, but I thought it was 137. And that's what it looks like we put in there every day. Every year. Yes. And like I said, I haven't had time to look, but do we not also put something in there for like gear and hose every year? And that's added to the 130 to 120. I don't

146know. I don't I haven't even found the contract is probably in the town manager's office. >> So, I don't have this stuff. >> No, no, I hear you. And this is what I'm looking at. I mean, look, my recollection, Lisa, that that payment sounds like the firetruck. Okay. Yeah, >> that 125 that sounds like the fire truck. >> Sounds like the lease cuz we leased it. We couldn't afford to buy it. We leased it. >> Anyway, all I'm trying to say, and I'm not trying to hold my This is like scribbles. I mean, come on. I I'm not trying to hold this up as like, guys, this is gospel. This is what we have in there. I I'm simply trying to say that just as somebody trying to sort out what we've got, where we

147are, where we're going for capital, we got to sort this out. And so this is why I asked you, Lisa, this is why I've been emailing you and and this and that. And I'm going to let it go now because frankly, these numbers are all fuzzy, >> right? >> Yes. >> My numbers. I don't ask any of you to take my numbers and put any real stock in them. I'm I'm just saying this is me sitting there with the last audit and going through what I remember we agreed to spend what we agreed to put in and trying to net it out. But that doesn't mean that's reality. >> When we go through the million dollar capital budget, we have to know what we're starting from. That's >> and and in my previous job, I'll

148tell you it this was done a long time ago, but this has been like a circle. And there's due to and there's due from and there's QuickBooks 21 and there's QuickBooks 23. And I'm trying to circle around, gather around the wagons and figure out what is in there. I am closer. I'm definitely closer. What did you say left was left in fire? What you think is left in fire? >> Oh, I mean, again, this is I mean, we've already blown this because you already told me it's wrong, but 196 421. >> Well, this is saying something about a little over 200. I But again, I want to look, you know, and see if everything's been covered, where the 137 was entered this year because I I'm not sure >> if I'm really Let me just

149see. Let me just look at one thing. >> All I did, Lisa, is I went back through my emails and I pulled out the um >> the quotes we had for the SBA, which is the breathing apparatus. >> Yeah. >> And the kitchen repair work. and I tallied them and I subtracted them from >> what the balance was shown in the in the audit figure, >> right? Figuring that the 137 I thought the 137 um represented the lease payment. So, I just figured that was netted out. So, I just ignored that and I just said, "Okay, what do we have to start? Here are the two things I know we spent." And I get to 196. >> Yep. and you know more than I do because I wasn't here last year and >> I'm happy

150to to walk you through that. And then Wall-E is another resource. Do you know have you have you met with Wall-E at all? Well, >> only I what I saw in here last week. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> You know, he's another resource. Um but yo, that's what I look at the fire equipment. Again, if there's 196 in there, great. That's just a number we need to know. It doesn't mean that's enough. Doesn't mean that I'm actually going to cut something. I I just want to know what's there before we start talking. >> I don't blame you. Yeah. I just wish there were more hours in the day. >> Indeed. Um you know, and there's a couple other funds in there where I have question marks. There's something called the non-recurring or reserve fund. I

151don't quite know what that is, but it's got 40,000 bucks in it. 41,000. Um our tree fund looked like we were underpended. Uh, and again, I'm >> Oh, that's gone. I don't think there's any of that left. Yeah. >> Great. Okay, that's that's good to know. If that's gone, >> I don't think so. >> Fantastic. >> Sure, but it doesn't look what I'm looking at. And again, I can't verify this is correct or not, but it doesn't look like there's much left in I was just looking to see what had a lot of activity and what didn't. So, that's what I'm looking at right now. >> Yeah, the tree fund we were doing great work with and I have no problem if we spent that money. It's been well spent, but um you know, just

152looking at the audit, when you have $18.6,000 in it and then we loaded $50,000 in, did we spend it all? Apparently, we did. Okay. $68,000 in treework. Cool. Fine. But then I I just want to know that. That's all. So, and again, I mean, the reason I asked this is just because our capital budget's about a million dollars, right, guys? When we look at what we're looking at for for this year's budget, um I had Lisa whack up for me a spreadsheet that produces a number for what our tax increase looks like. That that spreadsheet normally is a tab in our budget spreadsheet, and I'd like to get it there, but right now it's a separate spreadsheet, and we're at 9.5%. Um, with the town at what is it? Four and a half. I say

153it's a little more than four and a half now. Um, yeah, four and a half for the town, 2.9 for Ram, and 10.9 for the school. All of this ends up at a 9.5% tax increase, which um I've been here since 2007. I I I don't think we've seen that. So, I looked at it and I thought to myself and I looked at the numbers and um I thought to myself, what does it take to get us to 5%. The answer is $450,000 basically. 455. We're at 955 increase. So, if you get down to 450, you know, you take 450 out of that, you get to a 5% tax increase, which is not a small thing in of itself, but it's not 9.5. Where do we find it? >> I think we need to talk

154about AES. >> Well, we have to talk about all of it. Yes, >> we do. We have to talk about what we want to recommend there. Um, we got to talk about >> We talk about that tonight >> because we talk about that tonight. >> We do. And and I'm not I'm not trying to dodge it. Um, >> okay. >> We have, >> just just to be clear. So, again, we have if we look at Hang on, let me pull up the other spreadsheet again really quick. Sorry. So, the AES request to increase is $498,189, right? Just about $500,000. Ram is $120. Can't really do anything specific there. Um, we can hope it passes or fails, but it's 120. And then the town budget right now as it stands, my understanding is the differential between

155last year this year is $190,790. So, just shy of $200,000. So if you think about it in raw, you know, in rough terms, you're looking at half a million bucks from the school and 200,000, you know, just shy of 200,000 from the town. And that's where that's somehow between those two, we have to find some money. We have to find some or we have to pull from fund balance. But I will say, and I've said this for years and years, if you do plug a hole with fund balance, you just have to understand it's a oneshot deal. You haven't fixed the underlying issue, you you've cushioned the blow, right? If you take money from fund balance, if you if if we do have because if I'm reading the audit, right, we actually are pretty good

156uh in a good spot for from a savings perspective. But if you pull from say we find some of these funds and we move some money around and we decide hey you know we can use some of this money to cushion the tax bill that's a one you fixed it for one year >> and then next year rolls around >> I don't think we're at a point where we want to talk about >> it's only it only does so much like I'm not against I think everything's on the table but we should recognize that when you have an operating you know operating budget versus capital it's one thing to take money from fund mal to throw at it a specific capital need that's done in one shot. is another entirely when you take it and

157you throw it to plug a cap sorry an operating gap right >> yeah I think I think uh right now we don't know enough about the details of the fund balance to even talk about that part of it >> no I I wanted to raise it and then I'm I'm happy to let it go at this part Liz that's fine I think we should come back to it our next meeting >> y >> I think that's entirely fair >> I think we need to move on and talk about people's thoughts about school because tonight's we have to make a recommendation. >> So, and to be clear, uh I'm just going to throw it out there everybody. Uh I think you're all aware there have been dual legal opinions and this and that. My take on

158this is that we ought to make a recommendation. My take is that there are dual legal opinions. I don't want to really deviate too far from what we did last year, which is what we we can we can tell the board of ed that we think something. Um, if they go in and the budget fails and it bifurcates, last year we then stepped in and we made a cut, my intention would be to follow that basic paradigm unless and until we get to a point where maybe there's a charter revision, our charter gets clearer. uh way it is right now you got dueling lawyers. I am not myself a lawyer although I am very familiar with legal arguments. I have my opinions on who might be right and who might be wrong but I am

159really reluctant at this point as a board to do more than recommend at this stage. So, but that said, I think we are our job would be to make a recommendation. If you know before we go to town meeting, before we go to town hearing um tonight, make a decision to say, "All right, look, you're asking for almost 11%." And here's what the board of finance thinks. I think that's perfectly reasonable to do. Um, and we should talk about what as a group what we want to get down to. And and this is where I bring up the spreadsheet and I apologize. I kind of have it and you kind of don't. I'm looking at this spreadsheet that Lisa gave me. Um, because it's a draft form and it's got its issues. But, you know,

160what I'm seeing on this chart is that we're up in terms of what we need to raise by taxation. $955,000 and that's 9.5%. So if you just think about it, I mean we have we we what we raised last year in taxation was just a hair over 10 million. So it's actually pretty clear math, pretty easy math. If you want to get to 5%, you know what your number is. If you want to get to 6%, you know what your number is. So the question is, what number are we trying to get to, guys? What what number do we think this community can accept and absorb? Right. >> I would like to know what people's thoughts are on the AES. I I don't want to back into a certain number that will fit what the

161town budget is. I want us to discuss the AES budget because I'm not comfortable with it. I honestly don't think we know. We don't really know what those numbers add up to. We've all seen the presentation um the presentations that were given uh even even in front of the board of ed were not specific enough so that the board of ed looks at the line level like we look at this line level. We know how much every employee makes and we know how it all adds up. Boom. And we know how our budget comes together. They um and I asked this question in a board of ed meeting and they said, "Oh, no. We don't do that because that's why we hire Mallerie. We trust her." So, given the fact that last year they asked

162for 9% and we got them down to >> 5% I think. >> Five and a half. >> 5%. >> Five. Right. 5%. >> It was 8.8 and then five. >> Okay. um they still had an overage of about 5% last year. Um I have questions about the fact that we have no idea how much the taxpayers are paying for preschool and people are so tired about hearing the preschool. But let me tell you my thoughts about preschool. I have no problems with preschool. Most schools in our area have two preschools and an a waiting list. In November of 2023, AES or the the board of ed went into an executive session to discuss the expansion of the preschool. They came out and voted to hire another teacher, but there's no with really no explanation. So

163now we find out down the road they've been expanding it to out oftowners and we've been told it's self- sustaining and I've been trying to get more information about how many students, how much money and every time I ask I get push back. I get shamed. I get I never get the actual number. And so then I find other ways to find the number and then I get shamed for finding other ways to get the number. Anyway, um so we went from two preschool classes um in 2023 to now four preschool classes. Like a typical class might have been between 30 and 40 kids, 45. Now we're up to 70. When does it stop? So people are coming to Andover because there's the pool program. They have a full full-time preschool and a before and

164after school program right in one space. They're not coming here for any other reason other than that in my opinion. Um and I am afraid that we don't know how much of that is coming out of the general fund because even the board of ed doesn't know because they don't ask. My understanding is that when you put together a preschool class, you look at how many Andover kids there are and then you sprinkle in out of town kids to fill that room where you might have a room where let's say you have 15 kids in a room and then you get to the point where you got to get another room and now you're down to 12 room but that's not terribly efficient. So you go, you say to yourself, well, I could put two

165or three out of towners in there, bring in tuition and it actually benefits us. Why is that not an acceptable answer? >> You know what? That might very well be um the the case and it might be true, but we are never privy to the data to understand that. Rob, you know that's true. We can't get the data. They won't show the data. And even the board of ed doesn't ask for the data. We don't know how much it's costing us for all those benefits for eight teachers that are in that classroom or in that preschool. And next year we're facing universal preschool. We have no idea how that's going to affect us as a town. Um so that is one of the issues >> that really bugs me. Do you think you were teed

166up? >> If I sent over and said, "Would you send me a profit and loss statement for the preschool? >> Do Do you think you could get that, Rob? A profit and loss statement?" >> I I'm not clear on Okay. Again, let's back up for a second here. I mean, I I I go back to what our job is and what their job is. And I'm a little confused because like my thought is we need to look at their top line and decide whether we can handle that and they need to look at what they're spending and that's their job, not ours. >> Well, we are determining how much we're funding and we really don't know how much we're funding. We do know how much we're funding. how much we're giving them, but we don't

167know how much they need until the end of the year and they're 200, 300, $100,000 over budget, and then they make transfers. Um, >> yeah, they're drawing down they're drawing down their 2% non-lapsy to to plug the gap, I think. >> No, no, that's not what I'm talking about. That's not what I'm talking about. No, but I mean in terms of being over budget, >> I mean they No, I mean they can take the 2% if they're underfund, you know, if they don't spend all that money. I understand that. Um, >> can I add something? >> Go ahead. >> Yes. Okay. I I very much agree with Liz. Um we have been trying to get data from the school and they are not transparent and what we need to do is determine what we feel

168is uh a good number for our town people and like the superintendent asking for 11% where everyone else is getting 6%. um that to me is kind of high and when I asked certain questions it kind of went around in circles. I didn't get straight answers when I asked that. So the transparency is not there. So we need to kind of determine as a as a board that there should be a reduction in that budget and they need to figure out how to spend it. We are not as telling them how to spend it. We never tell them how to spend it. We need to get it down so the town is not going to be taxed 9%. >> Yeah. >> All right. Simple as that. >> And then of course the obvious question then

169is how much and then what does that do? Like I have the spreadsheet. We can talk about this. >> Yeah. >> If we ask them for a cut of X, what does that compute to? Right? So just just as an example, guys, and I'm trying to be very practical here, okay, everybody? I'm not, you know. So, if we look at this, every $100,000 is essentially 1%. Okay. So, AES is up $500,000. The town right now is up just shy of one. They're 190. Okay. And then RAM 120. That competes to a 9.5% tax increase, which I think we all agree is very high. So, in order to get it down, every $100,000 you knock off that, you get a percentage down. So, if you want to get from 9.5 to five, let's just as an

170example, you need to find $450,000. That's my point. I'm trying to focus this on what the numbers are and where we're going to ask for them and we're going to find it. So if we go from 9 to >> we have we have basically three places we can look for it just to be clear right we can look for it from the townside ops budget the townside capital budget sorry four places townside ops budget townside capital budget as budget or fund balance and fund balance of course is the last place I'd like again I'm pointing out it's a thing we've done in the past >> I'm only putting it out there because it's real it's a thing you can do. I'm not saying it's best practice. That's that's all I'm saying. So, those are the

171places we can go to find $450,000. If you want to get to 5%, if you want to get to some other percentage, you need a different number. I'm throwing it out there. Those are the numbers. So, where do we find it, guys? And what do we want to ask from as if we want to make a recommendation to the board of ed tonight? Cool. We need to entertain motions for that. We need to think about what that number needs to be and what the effect it has on the overall budget. If we ask them for a cut of $100,000, telling you right now that's 1%. That gets us to 8.5. Just so you know. >> Okay, Rob. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Rob, I would like to hear I'd like to hear other other people

172other people's thoughts. >> Was about to talk. Yep. >> Oh, who? I'm sorry. >> Well, first of all, the when I add up 520, 120 or 500, 120, and 191, I don't come up with nine nine, whatever you keep on saying, right? I come up with like00 81,000. >> It's interesting because I I'm going to this spreadsheet and I've got so what I've got for Ed Elementary is a little over 5 million. Ram is four four and a quarter. And I got a town budget with capital at 4.4 or just shy just shy of 4.4. Um, so I I plugged these numbers in. Uh, before I put in the changes from the last Bman meeting, it was we were at 9%. Uh, and now we're at 9.5 because they increased some things. I just want

173to point out um Monday night I don't know if you all aware of this a number of town salaries were increased um and it changed our numbers. >> Um so hang on a minute guys while while we're here let's let's do this. Let's do this. Let's share >> okay >> my screen. >> Okay. Can you all see this? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Can you make it bigger or something? Yeah, hang on a minute, Bill. Um, just try to keep it all at one. >> My My favorite feature is if you scroll and hold your control key, you >> That's what I was doing. But if I do it too much, then you can't. >> Anyone looking can do that. Anyone watching through Zoom could zoom in on >> Oh, now what did I do? Oh

174god, now I've messed it up. Man, look what you did. >> You know what? >> Hang on a second. I >> Let me get back to >> Can I just say something? >> Yeah, go ahead, Liz. >> Um, there's still a lot of the budget work that town budget work that we have to go through and do. This is not going to be this is not going to be done tonight. >> No, it's not. >> Um, so I mean to do all the hypotheticals about if we did this, if we did that, I I think we can do that. I think we definitely will have to do that. We did that last year. We went line by line, whatever. Um, I I want to know how people feel about just having a hard discussion about

175AES and seeing where everybody feels, what everybody feels about it because we could probably cut a big chunk off that there, you know, depending on how people feel. >> I definitely think we need to do it. >> We uh we can we can certainly single them out if you know, but I would just say at the same time, >> it's not it's not singling them out. It's we've been working on the town budget. We can't we really don't have everything we need to work on the town budget. We know there's a budget that we know that you know is >> so elephant in the room. >> So when >> few questions and some of it may be my new my newness to the board um on AES in particular. The first is um where I

176mean we looked at the budget. I'm remembering some specific numbers off the top of my head. Where specifically would would we suggest cutting if we were to cut >> the the issue there, Nick, is that we don't have line item authority on their budget. So the the only we can do we do not ne even if >> you know you take the full >> dose O'Brien approach that we can cut them anytime we want. It's a topline cut. So what we can say to them is look you asked us for 5 million bucks guys we're going to give you 4.8. That's a thing we could or well let me put it this way. At this point, I would say we recommend that and then if we if the budget makes it through and we bifurcate,

177then we do what we did last year and we step in. But the the the point being that the idea is that we as the board of finance recommend a lower number and then the board of ed, it's their job to sit down and say, well, if only if we only got 4.8, what would we do? >> Right? So ultimately, regardless of where we sit at the end of this, we'd either make a recommendation to their team or not to cut the budget. >> And then if they it would be up to them ultimately whether they move forward with that budget or not. If I'm understanding, >> yeah, they they have the ability to then write back to us and say what they want to say. My take would be that at that point we

178go to town meeting and we see what happens. Last year, this is what occurred last year. We went to town meeting. Uh if my my recollection is correct, the budget actually made it through town meeting. We went to referendum. It failed at that point. And at that point, when it failed, the budget bifrocated. Now, when we have a referendum, there are what are called advisory questions on the ballot that'll say things like, "Do you feel the town budget is too high, too low, or just right? Do you feel the school budget's too high, too low, or just right? And what happened last year was when the budget failed, most people said town budget's okay. And a majority, it was like 5545 said something like, you know, this the school budget's too high. And so when

179we got the budget back, what we said was, okay, we've got to cut that 8.8% down. And we at that point took action to do so. And we cut it to five. And the board of ed rolled with that. they they did what they had to do with that. The thing is we have never done and because we don't have the authority to do it is to reach down into the budget and say this particular thing, this salary, this particular educational choice, this supply number, whatever it is, >> I don't think anyone is interested in doing anything like that. >> No, no, Nick raised it. So he he was talking about >> what would be specifically caught and what I'm trying to explain >> and I may be going on and on and I apologize

180if I am. It's just to make clear that that isn't the idea here. >> Yeah. I'm just wondering what we're going to like what we want to do with that. I I do also have some homework that I did um to show the team. >> Oh yeah, I was interested in that. Yeah, I was interested in that. Thank you for doing that, Nick. >> Yeah, you're welcome. I mean it doesn't have to be right at this point. Um I mean >> I would love it >> if you had >> um that would be I don't want to ruin the >> I can grab it right now if it's good. >> That's about the the salary discussion. Um it's really >> although we can have opinions about it, it really is out of our out of

181our hands and out of our program. Again, that that gets back to the issue of at the end of the day, that's the board of ed's call. If we say to them, guys, and by the way, this is entirely hypothetical. I'm not putting this forward as an idea, but if we were to say to them, guys, we really think you get you need to get down to 8%. Just pick a number, guys. >> Okay, that's a 2.9% cut. That's it. That's what we do. Then they would have to take that and say either no or we're gonna do something in between or we're gonna hit that number. But how they choose to do it, that's their job. That's their job. That not ours. What we can say is guys, $500,000. We're just shy. >> Can

182I ask a question? Even >> you know that's our job. Heather has a question. >> I did and because I was like Nick, I'm new so I wanted to know what we do. But I had a question um and I agree with Liz that they do need to be more transparent. Um and I don't think I really understand the whole preschool and what's involved with that. But you said that they had a surplus. Was that from 7124 to 7125 they had a surplus? >> And then we we don't know if they will this year. No, they won't have a surplus this year. I've asked this question repeatedly. They're they're not going to have a surplus this year. I think this year is the opposite. They're actually going to be pulling from their 2% account to

183to make their budget this year. And then I think, and this is something we should consider when we make a recommendation, is I think they'll have a little bit left in their 2% non-lapsing fund uh after they do that, like you know, going into the next budget year. And one thing we could just say is look best practice would be given the amount of money you're asking for to zero out that account. >> The only thing is my recollection is that 2% account would have about 110 or 120 in it going into the next budget. But that's that's a fuzzy number. >> Tim, did you have a question? >> It just does it does seem though that for many years there has been um a surplus. >> Yeah, but it's that's over. I mean that

184there was there absolutely was there was a multi-year period where we had >> uh it was two or three >> years in a row we had two $300,000 kind of uh underpense. Yes, >> that's the thing that and one of those years is the year that we put 300 and some odd thousand I think it was into the capital fund. Um which was that would have been 24 I think 24 25. So, Bill, Bill, go ahead. >> You can make a recommendation, right? And it's and it's only a recommendation. Okay. >> So, ultimately the town is going to say, you know, we can say we recommend 6%. I'm making numbers up. >> And they say, "No, we're sticking with our 11." The town is going to vote it down. There's no way the town's going

185to vote for 11% increase. We all know that. Okay? Right? I mean, there's anybody that disagrees with me on that. tell they're not 11% increase. So it'll get bifocated and it's going to come back to this board then and we're we're going to pick another number. I I mean so we can make a recommendation tonight and we probably should. I think we should. But what is that number? How much work have you guys done looking at the spreadsheet that she shared with us? She went over the cost the teachers increases. We lost the $45,000 for the psychologist. We lost >> or there's a increase in insurance that we can't do anything about. So you got to look at what she can't do anything about and what's flexible that she can't do something about. I mean,

186is that reasonable to say? >> That that's reasonable to say, but you know, for instance, the psychologist cost in the budget, there's the $90,000 that's budgeted, but there's a tremendous amount of money that's not listed for all the benefits that are going to go with that role and all the other teachers and staff. And it's important. The kids need this stuff. I'm not saying they don't, but within the budget, we never can see what is the accurate staffing budget, what are all the benefits, etc., etc., etc. It's spread out in different reports or not listed in a report. And when we ask for it, we we'd never get it. So, I I would be all for saying, "Go ahead, spend." But we don't have good information. For as long as I've sat on the board

187of finance, we've been looking for it and we just can't seem to get a clear picture. >> Yeah, >> it's been like that for a few years as well. >> It's tough. >> Eric had tried to get information too and he couldn't. So, we need to make a >> We have You're saying we have no idea what their benefits are, costs are. >> We have the number that they give us, but we don't know how the math maths. We don't know how it adds up because they won't show us that. And the other thing about the benefits too that I would I would kind of just urge us to kind of remember is that usually the benefits the benefit number I think is given to us by RAM, right? >> Yes. From what I understand,

188when we get that number right now in the early part, it usually goes down until they finally get the real number. So, they may say it's 15%, but it may not actually be 15%. The issue that we have with that is this year it's been very consistent. Every single time they've talked about it, it's stayed at 15. Usually, you have some indication that it's going to drop and this year we're not getting that signal. Well, we haven't >> I mean, I would love to I would believe me. I would love to believe, Liz, >> that that number is really going to be 12 or something. >> I don't see any indication >> that it's going to in the past. I feel like we have had some signals and this and to be fair, this is

189all fuzzy. So, I understand your qu I mean, it's a fair question, but I don't see it this year and it worries me. I think that 15% may be real. Um, and I've been treating it >> might it might be and I've been treating it as real for that reason. Um, >> um, >> in terms of the rest, in terms of, you know, what their benefits costs are. I mean, we do have a number. We just, you know, you guys don't trust it. >> No, you're right. I don't I don't because last year when they had an overage they transferred. Let me tell you like it's it's the salaries and the benefits. We don't really know. It's a number and it could be padded. It could be it could be thin. Who knows? Um, but

190last year they did a budget transfer and they transferred $181,000 out of salaries and benefits and retirement alone. So to me, I look at that and go, okay, are we padding this budget and then we're spending it in repairs and maintenances that we didn't that we didn't budget for because they over way over spent on that on that line. So >> it makes me ask the question as someone who is responsible for the taxpayers, >> I have to ask these questions because I don't see that see it being asked over there. So here here's I mean my perspective is that we've had all sorts of stuff like that happen on the town side too. We have a we have a clearer oversight as a board on the town than we do on the board of

191ed because it's really their job. >> We also offer a lot of transparency too. >> Well we we are the ones who are are asked to make the transfers as opposed to you know the board of ed is the one that makes the the transfers within their budget. I'm not talking about transfers, but I'm talking about the >> if Eric came to us and said, "Rob, I I need to transfer $180,000 from here to here." >> We as a board would have to take that up and approve it, right? >> I understand. >> That's a board of ed thing on their side. >> I'm I'm talking That's one little piece of it, Rob. The other piece of it is they don't The board of ed does not go through line by line on the school

192budget like we do. They admitted it that they don't because they leave it up to Valerie. And so where is where is the oversight? So so they basically got the same presentation we got which was just a big narrative of you know why they need this why they need you know this money that money whatever without any meat. That that's all I'm saying. And this is not about not wanting to fund the school. It couldn't be further from the truth. We have a responsibility to the taxpayers and I feel like last year we didn't do our job. So this year I wanted to make sure that we made the prop proper recommendation and see what they say and come back with. >> So So Liz, what do you have recommendation in mind? Do you have

193a level or a thought? I had a recommendation and I'm I don't know if it will get voted yes, but um and they have every right to look at it and say, "Well, we'll do what we can and then come back to whatever." But I'll make a recommendation if anybody's ready for that or if anybody wants to ask more questions. >> Well, I I would guess what I'm asking you, Liz, is like >> we can have discussion on a motion. Well, wait a minute. Like, let's get on the floor. Let's talk about But what I'm saying is Liz is making recommendation a chance to talk All I'm trying to say is if you're going to make a recommendation, it should be based on something. So, I'll just give you an example. Okay. There was a

194year where I remember a per certain member of the audience stood up at the town meeting and said, I make a motion we cut $400,000 from the AES budget. Was like, okay, where? And this person had no idea. Just cut it. So, what I'm saying is if you're going to make a recommendation, it should be based on something. This board should basically say you don't need this, you don't need that, you don't need this. >> Okay? You need that, you need this. What are you going to make that much just on a a theoretical? This is what I feel comfortable with or do you have an actual number based on you did some math and you think they only and I'm not criticizing you. I'm just trying to say do you have a number that

195you've got a spreadsheet and you said this is what we should be giving them and no more. >> Like that's what I'm trying to get bottom to. I don't want to just take a stab in the dark. I want to make a real recommendation. Um, I honestly don't feel like we have enough information to support the budget that that they have given us. That's that's what I feel like. Um, I would re make a recommendation to cut it to 2%. >> That doesn't keep the lights on. >> You're all for education, but that's not >> That doesn't even keep the lights on. >> That's not true. You're all >> I'm not going to go for it anyway. >> You saw her presentation, the 15% health. >> Yeah, I did see I did see her presentation

196and I could debunk a lot of the stuff and I'm not going to sit here and do that. >> You can't do%. >> I am totally fine with making the recommendation to cut their increase down, but my lord, >> that's that's >> how do you even keep the lights on for that number? >> I'd like say something. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. I'd like to second that. I mean, it's going to be up to the town to really decide. >> Up to them anyways. They're not going to come back and accept it anyways, but you know what? At least we >> Can I ask I had another question? >> Yes. it based on what all you guys are saying. Some people think we're not getting enough information or the board of ed is providing it

197or whatever, but does the board of ed does their budget get audited so someone would know if >> Yeah, they're a sure they get audit every year. >> Yeah, the auditor was quite positive this year if you I mean I got the draft audit just the other day. I I don't think it's been sent around to everybody. Um but the auditor has no had no like um red flag or anything to say about as he he he basically said >> there was only one thing in that audit uh write up in terms of corrective action this year. >> So when they when they transfer 80,000 from salary to whatever >> does that show in the audit too or >> No, it wouldn't because they weren't over budget. >> Okay. The auditor doesn't make a determination

198on how they spend the money, >> right? >> The auditor basically balances and make sure everything is where everything everything reconciles. >> Yep. >> So, they don't make comments or recommendations about whether or not they agree with how the money was spent. >> Sure. They're not looking at individual expenditure and saying, "Guys, you paid too much for uh HVAC repair." Didn't I see though that they're going they're still going to do a letter of recommendation because the corrective action wasn't completed by June 30th. >> Well, that's that's that's for the board of ed. Yes. >> Because because Jeff had Val hadn't gotten that sorted out, but that's a whole another story. >> I don't think that had anything to do with any material defects to their budget though, Lisa. I think >> there have been

199a few years where there have been issues with >> Sure. But they've been sorted. I mean, that's the issue is that slowly but surely both the town and the AES budgets have gotten from the standpoint of the audit, they've gotten better and better and we've gotten closer and closer and closer to getting through an audit. >> Same with the town. Town say I got to say as a town as a town really our audit would be done by the end of the calendar year. Um, we have been edging towards that. There was a year we were a full year behind. We are now we're in March. We're about to complete this audit. So that puts us three months behind. We used to be like 12 months behind. We are edging towards >> Just so you

200know, bro, the capital isn't on is because I'm trying to get 24 25. >> I fully respect that. Lisa, my point is we've been improving and on both the town and and AES sites as I understand it. And as I understand it, AES and the auditor are pretty good, you know, terms. Like if you read the audit, he's not ripping them or or really the town either. There's frankly one small thing that these he talks about about um >> the way the town reconciles money from this Rob, give somebody else a turn. >> I'm sorry. >> Other people have Kim's been trying to finish her sentence, so >> by all means. I'm sorry. I was trying to answer a question. I was just trying to speak to Heather's comment about um the audits. That's all.

201>> So, there have been problems in the past with the audits because of lack of communication between the school and the town and and sending the information to reconcile um on a regular basis and and we have been the town and the school has been dinged on that in the past. That has been rectified at this point. Um but they do not comment about how the money is spent. Um the other the other question that I have um is that I also know for a fact there is a bank account in the Birksher bank where all all the other money goes to. So, there's a general fund, Mnt bank account where the general fund money goes, but then there's a bank account where all the grant money, tuition, um, cafeteria money, and I think, uh,

202the kids activity fund that goes to a different bank and it's called Birkshire Bank. And that we have no idea how much is in that. that could be accumulating money that we have no no idea what's in that bank. Um, and >> well, you're talking about the school lunch fund. >> No, I'm talking about the Bergkshire bank account where all the other money, all the other uh revenue comes into where they keep that. And >> the audit and I'm trying to find um the funds that you're talking about. That's all. Oh, that would be great if that's listed in there. I >> I mean, they have they have there we have we have like 50 funds and um there's something there's a school lunch fund. There's the end of last fiscal year there's $6,500 in

203it. $6,534 as an example. >> School grants, student activities. There's a slew of these funds. Most of them are not school funds. Most of these are uh they're town funds, but they're >> so I mean we could we could look over that. The fact is why I'm asking you know, >> right? >> So Lisa would not have be privy to this account either. >> No, school has it. >> It's a heavily guarded secret. It's a heavily guarded secret. There could be >> Yeah, most of my stuff is in Mnt. >> Okay. Well, >> right. >> It's a straightforward question. And then like once we have I mean we have we just got literally like today or yesterday the audit figures and these are preliminary right? >> So we could ask the school finance department um

204what do you know about these funds? The problem that I recall and this is my recollection from this board for a while is a lot of these funds are held by the town even though they're school money. >> This is not what I'm telling you Rob is this is not held by the town. This is held by the school. Correct. >> We have no insight to this at all. >> So, we don't know what it and I know the town of Coventry has the same situation. They get their grant funds. It goes into a different bank account. Okay. >> And it's reported in their it's reported in their big budget book of how much money is in that account. >> Okay. >> And I would love it if you could maybe ask for that. Ask

205for what the balance is of the Birkshare account. >> Birkshare account. Okay. Well, I mean I mean I'd be happy to write an email to Caitlyn >> asking uh you know understand board of finance understanding there's a Birkshire account for some of your funds and uh what's in there? Sure. I don't have a problem with writing that email. That's fine. >> Um are we ready to vote on this? >> Was there a motion made? >> Yes. And I would >> second it. >> I second it. You guys said it's Berkshire Bank. >> Yeah, Berkshire Bank. >> Just apologies before we bank. >> Berkshire Bank just changed to Beacon Bank. >> Thank you, Lisa. >> Yep. >> Thank you. >> In the budget, the the 3% that most of the teachers are getting and the insurance

206like none of that is going to change, right? >> No. I mean, can't change. It's contractual. That is what it is. >> Contactual, right? So, >> so a 2% >> that doesn't even it's not going to come for that. >> It's absurd. >> No, >> come on. >> It's not possible. But >> it's not, you know, that's true. >> It's at least as it's at least as crazy as 11%. It's not >> because you know that's absurd. Come on. >> But hey, you know what? We'll vote on it. >> But I'm just saying, what are you basing that on? Let's have a conversation, an intelligent conversation. >> By the way, based on the fact that we don't have any we don't have any data to support what they're doing. >> She's told you how much

207it cost for the increases. She told you how much it cost for the >> the insurance. She told you how much it cost for those cards. She >> We don't know how much we're paying for the benefits and the and all that other stuff for those eight employees from the prek. We don't know. We just don't know how it all adds up. I mean, is there an accountant here? So, anywhere? Isn't somebody here an accountant? Lisa, >> I'm not a CPA. I only have a bachelor. >> So, last year they off they wanted I think it was 9.9. We arrived >> 8.8. It was 8.8. >> We arrived at five. >> Correct. >> They were perfectly good hiring two new teachers and another parah. and I and whatever else things they did and they were

208fine. So, >> and they and they had a a 5.5 underspent. >> What? Not last, not this year. They didn't No, they're not >> current year, but last year. Last year. If you look at their last year final final um >> Right. But that was where we put the money into the capital fund for the capital. >> No, that just everyone >> that was the year before. That was your >> as a bear in mind with these audit figures guys, we're often a year or more behind. Um I would just say just so everybody understands the motion. I want to be very clear about this. I want everyone to understand it. A 1.2% sorry a let me correct that. A 2% increase um that results in a budget of $4,656,77121. That is a cut from

209their request of $46,879.76. If you were to put that in, hang on, and pass that, that reduces our amount to be raised by taxation to 5.5% by my calculations, by my preliminary calculations to be determined when Lisa and I finally sort this spreadsheet out. But right now, that's the result. You're cutting just over $400,000 out of their $500,000 request. >> Thank you. >> Just to be clear, that's what the motion does. Just so everybody understands it before they vote on it. >> I know that's extreme. I know it's extreme, but they're ask is extreme considering what we've been given for details. >> Okay. Does anyone but I don't want to cut off discussion if anybody has anything further to say otherwise we will move to a vote. Does anyone have any further discussion on this

210motion? >> I'm I guess I'm a little lost myself. We're looking at particular funds including salaries and including benefits. if we do straight linear math and everybody in the preschool took benefits. I was in the school and I saw what how many preschool classrooms were the maximum and I'm just doing straight and back of my hand math here. The maximum we could have been paying in preschool salaries and preschool benefits could have been $100,000. the maximum from what I'm seeing for all preschools. If we cut, >> how do you factor? >> I took straight linear math. Bale said in one of her meetings she has about 52 employees. We had about eightish. >> I think we have eight teachers and eight paras in that in that. >> There's eight teachers and eight pairs. How do

211you base your math to get that? Because I think that's really low. I think that's low for benefits for benefits. Uh all the other stuff that comes If everybody takes if everybody takes the benefits, which they don't. >> So, okay. I I got that wrong. >> It's about 35 grand usually. >> No, I got 107 107,692. I took straight linear math. Took the $700,000 benefit. I'm going off my memory, so there could be a little delta there. I divided it I divided it by um 52 I think. Let me look at my calculator. I divided it by 52 and then I multiplied it by 8. That's $107,000 is the maximum according to my quick math. The maximum we could be paying in benefits. Um and I I'm just >> thinking and again we don't really

212know. So >> then we do have to we >> that's an order of events. >> It's a it's a question of order of magnitude. But any event that's >> the give or take. Let's look at that. >> That's um >> so worse. I mean I'm just sitting here thinking of every single way we could dice this. If we proposed a slice, obviously they need the staffing there. We could potenti I I don't know how much money we could save if we're proposing they slice something there. Where would you I mean we're looking at 100. >> That's up to them. >> Yeah, that's up to them to decide. >> But yeah, we don't swore. >> He's asking a fair question. He's asking a question. >> A fair question. It is a fair question. >> I guess

213let me finish the statement. The first thing I'm thinking about >> The first thing I'm thinking about is we're proposing that they cut things. I'm just wondering what we could propose that they cut that they could rationally do in a school that would move the needle much where we could come up with something like cutting staff like that and cutting I I don't know where we could go with that benefit that would save the town a ton of money I guess is where my ultimate point is. >> So and the other thing I'd mention guys is look the the the line item and lack the lack of line item authority on our board is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it's it's fair to say we can't reach down to their budget and monkey

214around with a particular line item. On the other hand, when you go to propose a topline cut, what that furthermore means is it isn't actually our job to to say exactly how they would sort that out. You hope that that topline cut that's proposed is reasonable. But you at the same time to be fair if because we don't have line item authority because we do not have the it's not our job to go in there and say cut a teacher you know it's it's a little much. It kind of cuts cuts both ways guys. You can't kind of do it one way or not the other. It it what it boils down to is what do you feel the the reasonable topline number is that this community can afford and then it's the board of

215ed's job to sit there and say >> yep >> we got to do something. So now there's a motion on the floor that we make a recommendation to the board of ed they cut their increase down to and I want to get this right Liz 2% >> that is the that is the motion on the floor. So I would unless there is further discussion suggest we vote on this motion. Does anyone have anything further to say before we do so? Okay. All in favor? >> I >> Okay. All oppose. >> I >> nay. But yeah. Okay. Motion fails four to three. Three to four. Um, that does not mean we can't make further motions. If somebody else wants to come up with a different number, >> I'd like to make a motion. >> Okay, go

216ahead. >> Okay. That we cut it down to 3.25%. >> I'll second discussion. I feel like people don't trust the numbers that we got, so we're just cutting it. And I think that's very hard. Like, why don't we trust the people at the board of ed? I'm not saying you're they don't give us enough information, but it's awful if we can't be >> It is awful >> the stuff that they're giving us. >> It's It's terrible position to be in. You're absolutely right. >> It is. >> We don't want to do this. >> Yeah, we don't. I mean, I have a if I saw them go like like we do line by line by line. And I don't think we've gotten to the point where we've gone through all the employee lines like we did

217last year. I I would love to just say, "Okay, I can see where you did the work. It makes sense." But I don't I don't see that. And I and I just if I didn't get such push back all the time, you know, and there was more of an easier give and take of a communication, I might feel differently, too. It's just that's all. >> This might actually create um discussion. >> Yeah. Action, you Yeah, I agree, Lee. That's a very good point. >> I mean, if we get the great I mean, this is not just one year. This has been going on for years. And you know, if if we just let it go, we're not doing our taxpayers any service. >> I'd point out that yes, you're right. This has been going on

218for multiple years. Um, and you know, the board of ed's perspective on this is somewhat different. Uh, as you I think you all know, we've had board tri board meetings where I don't remember if um our newer folks I know I don't think Nick and Heather definitely you guys weren't on the board yet. We had a long tri board meeting where every not the last but the one before. There's been a lot between the boards and there's a lot of builtup frustration and it's not one way. So, as somebody who has attempted to mediate this kind of thing for years, I can only say that I'm trying to work with what we've got and try to find a way forward. And I don't think the best way to go about it is to treat the

219board of ed like they're a bunch of nick and poops. But anyway, let's do let's talk about >> I've never ever said that. >> Never said that. >> I mean, basically, you said you don't trust them guys. That doesn't make them that doesn't make them nams that they >> Not at all. >> You're trying to be punitive because you don't like them or trust them. So you're being punitive. That doesn't do anything for the kids or the school. You're being >> That is You are so wrong, Bill. >> I'm not wrong. You know, I can read your emails to these people. You are so vindictive and mean to these people. It's unbelievable. It's just a question. I'm victim of one of you in you don't like her and you trying to punish her. >> It's

220ridiculous to punish her because she and I apologize. But let's take it down a notch here. All of us, myself included. >> Absolutely ridiculous. >> You are. >> But there is a >> the meanness and vindictiveness is unbelievable. where the board of ed is not trusted and they know that guys they know that. >> What do you think we can do to help fix that? >> Can I show what I did? >> Well, I guess the only thing we can do going forward because there's no there's no easy fix. The answer is the the truthful answer is there's no easy fix at this point. We're pretty far down this road. So the only thing I can imagine and I can't promise you it'll work is that we just all of us keep doing everything we

221can to kind of forge bonds between the boards in a you know make connections. You know it sometimes this might involve biting one's tongue. It might involve trying to meet somebody where they are. The thing is it's it's clearly you know how it's gotten and it's gotten and I'm not saying it's one way at all. I know it's not one way. It it I've seen it both go both ways. >> Um it's toxic, right? And it's really hard at this point to get people to deescalate and say, "Okay, wait a minute. This person is asking something in good faith as opposed to this person's out to get me." And I think that's the fundamental problem. Now, how do we get from where we are to where we frankly should be? I mean, a functional community

222again. I've been trying for um a couple years now. Haven't succeeded. So, maybe I'm the wrong guy to ask. I keep trying and I'm going to keep trying. I will tell you I'll never quit. >> But I'll say this, we have to we have to try to get there. And one of the things that's really difficult from whenever I talk to people on the board of ed, they get very very frustrated with the in whether it's outright stated or simply insinuated that they don't do their jobs and that they're essentially a pack of incompetence. And I understand. Oh, you didn't say those words. Yes, I know that. But that's what they competence. It's it's questions that don't get answered. >> Yeah, but it's questions they don't answer. It's questions they don't answer. >> Transparency. >>

223Yeah. And then they feel like >> transparency. Okay. All right. >> Okay. Well, let's get back to the motion, guys. Guys, we're So, we are >> Yes. Let's Let's get on to >> Let's get back to We have a motion on the floor. >> Something second. I think second the motion. >> Probably use this motion. Correct. >> I think Nick has been raising his hand over and over. So, go ahead. >> No, I did. I raised my hand. I just wanted to I thought it was a good time actually. I just wanted to show what I did. Um, so I'm going to send a request right now to see if I could share my screen. >> Go ahead. I think I just gave you access. >> Thank you. Um, I did a little research. It's

224not as transparent as I originally thought online. >> I think you gave access to Oh, there you go. >> Can everyone see the breakdown of the salaries with the school? >> Yeah, I see a spreadsheet at least. Um, >> why is it being difficult? Sorry everybody, my screen's doing it. >> Well, the moment you want to do something for others, >> of course. >> So, >> it's just his thinking. I wanted to just take a second and show all this. Um, I went through I found these. Some of them are approximations. Some of them are calendar years further to the left than where we are right now. So, they actually would have been up in salary based on where they were. Um, I went through I was just curious what the I was just curious

225where things were and I wanted to make sure we were it's a good testament to the research that the other that teams have done. Um, I did a price analysis and a price assessment. If you go on AI, you're getting this as an average. If you go across the different boards and across I mean across the different um towns and across the different areas, you're getting these. I did some math to adjust from these salaries in some instances to the equivalent FTEES for veil which is6 a week and these were the numbers I got. As you could see I threw in a um AES's we're generally seeing about 5% here. Um I saw a grant I I saw some of them are incentive based. I don't know if there was any of that in that

226con the contract we just had. I saw some more incentive based and I also kept seeing a common theme of educational reimbursement as I was digging some of these contracts apart. So I I just wanted to present this to the team. I did look at it and I did view all the towns and this is the data I came up with. >> Where did you find the data? Was this did you go to the actual town? I did Google, I did AI, I did uh several different things. Um I did some estimates. Some of them gave me data for like 2020. So I went through the contract, figured out what the raises would have been to get some of these numbers. So I looked at each individual town. >> Are you looking I'm sorry. Are

227you looking also at the number of people in the town as well? >> I did not pull that data in here. I didn't >> has a lot of people in it in Lebanon. It does. >> These these were the towns they used, right, for their analysis. >> This is their analysis. I looked at that. I didn't compare pupil to pupil. I didn't compare town to town. >> Um I mean quite honestly, I ran out of time. >> There there are every town has their own thing. Like I I remember looking at this um Nick and I were talking about a little bit before he embarked on this project. And as an example, um Boser, which is unfortunately blank here, Bosra has K through eight. >> Yes. I actually Yeah. And Basra's salary is 74,329. I

228actually found that on their website. >> But do you know what that what the point like is that a >> I think it was a four >> four >> I think it was what was that and what year was it? >> I'll tell you I have the contract they could he's contracted forund 100 days out of 180. So what is that? >> And it's for 205 students. >> So that might be closest. 56 like 56%. >> Um the next closest really to us >> uh would be Marorrow who's uh I believe >> I have her >> they're a slightly larger town but they've got so their elementary is probably a little bigger but >> it's a little bigger but it's it's the closest to the demographic. It's got K through six, >> right? >> They've

229got 465 students. >> Um, >> they're the closest really in demographic. >> Basra only has 205. And then you go down from there, Franklin 185. And then you go up from there. Hein, you can't really equate. Hein, that's 697. They have two two grammar schools. >> They have a I believe they have a K through three and a four through six elementary, >> right? I mean, I call them grammar schools, but yes. Um. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, sorry. I'm just trying to fill in information. I'm not trying to contradict you at all. I'm just adding information. >> I can't remember. Lebanon. I I think >> Lebanon has four schools. Four schools. And they're like 202,000. But they're four schools. >> I think what does help >> put us in apples to apples category is adjusting

230for the FTE. So I put the 6 equivalent here which ratio and proportionally should I maybe adjust I I would say that's probably the best you could do. >> I mean honestly you know obviously you're not going to take Hebrin's superintendent's full salary and compare that to that's silly because they have so many more kids. That's what the you know at least and all of this is quick and dirty but you know point that's what the point 6 adjustment kind of exists to do. Um, >> correct. >> You know, in some of these towns, but I do think I think Basra and maybe Lebanon and a couple of these others. Marorrow, you're right, are are probably the closest to us. And if they have I don't know. Does Marro do you know, Nick, when you

231looked at this, is Marorrow running a a full-time superintendent or do they have a point6 as well? Oh, it looks like they've got a full-time. >> They do. They have fulltime and they're prek through six and they've got 465 students. I think that makes sense. >> So it's it's a bigger it's a bigger town. Okay, that's fine. >> I would I would >> so that to me it seems to make sense then the 6 adjustment to that makes total sense. >> I would say this I this is how I would look at it if I was hiring at my company. I would say this is fair market rate and this is the equivalent of what the job would be. So this is us. This is what we would pay for one FTE of this skill

232set. This is what our adjustment would be based on the size of the school and how much time we anticipate it being. And then this would be the value there. I just pulled the data. I I thought it was pretty interesting cuz the way I pulled it, it it >> it made me actually feel good at the end of the project to see that that aligned to um what the board of ed. >> Yeah. I mean, speaking Oh, sorry. Go. You know what? Go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> I was just going to say, so this is excellent. And I think this also speaks to what you were saying is that we need to get the board of education and the board of finance or whatever to be able to talk to each other

233because the board of education could have provided this, but they gave just a vague chart. >> Yeah. >> And and then they also said we should divide by point6 in one of those emails as basic math, which is was wrong. But um I don't know. I just like why why this is easy. They could have they could have done this instead of arguing about it for three emails or whatever. Right. >> Yeah. I I I I happen to agree with you. The the the I know why they did it the way they did it, but you know, basically Val was like, I don't want to call out specific colleagues for their salaries. And I'm like, no, that's silly because we're literally arguing your salary. So, no, I I'm with you guys on that one. Um,

234this should have been probably the chart that they provided, uh, not the the graph that they did. I don't disagree with that. >> Maybe they have the same thing. I don't want anyone in a strong sense really holding me to these numbers. This is Googling. This is adjustment for raises and everything. >> Estimation. Got it. >> Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate it's a good faith effort and it shows something that's fairly >> fairly consist. >> Thanks for you know but no I I I happen to agree with Heather on this that if we had gotten something like this you know it might have made things a little >> more palatable >> a little more palatable a little smoother. So, and this is where I will continue my efforts, but um over the years we've gotten to

235a place where the level of dysfunction and distrust within this town and certain board members and certain boards has gotten to the point where even when a request is completely reasonable, we sometimes get push back. this this is this frustration uh and sometimes honestly sometimes I feel some affinity for the folks on on the other board. But that that said we remain in a place where we have a motion on the floor to cut >> to recommend the AES cut their budget down to a 3.25. Correct? Is that the request? >> Yeah, that's that's correct. 3.25% increase. Is there further discussion on this motion before we proceed to a vote? >> Yeah. What would that be for um the town? >> Uh give me one second. I have to do some math. Okay. Um >>

236probably around 6 >> 3.25. Hang on. Hang on. I got it. I got it. >> Okay. Uh, if I've if my math is correct, that's a big cut still. Uh, 338,000 and change. It gets the amount to be raised by taxation on 6.1%. >> 6%. >> So, is that a $338,000 cut or is that >> the increase >> from from sorry, cut from the increase? So, I'm sorry, Liz. I'm looking at it from the stand. This is This is just the way the spreadsheet works, right? Their original request is 498181. Uh, sorry, 189. 4989. And, um, this brings them in significantly lower than that. And so, I'm looking at it going off of that, not from a baseline of zero. So, this is still an increase, but obviously it's a 3.25% increase, right? Sorry. Um,

237anyway, I'm I'm looking at it from the standpoint of what does it do to taxation and so it's uh I'm playing around with the spreadsheet and I'm I'm kind of frantically doing this behind the scenes. Um, and anybody do you have is there any further discussion or do we want to take a vote on this one? Okay. Uh hearing none, we'll go ahead and vote. All in favor of this motion. Three votes in favor. Very well. All against. That's three. Nick, I don't see a vote from you, sir. >> Oh, he did. I didn't see it. >> It blended into the bookcase. We should we should be um like announcing who's voting what for the uh for Marina. >> Sure. Okay. Usually we just do the numbers, but okay. Fine. Um uh Liz Le and

238Kim were in favor. Myself, Bill, Heather, and Nick were against. Motion fails. >> Uh but again, we we could always entertain additional motions. I mean I I speaking for myself I agree with a lot of you that I think it's unlikely that 11% increase as increase is going to sail through happily through town meeting and referendum. So I conceptually I'm not opposed to a recommendation that they do something. One of the things that occurs to me they can do is zero out that 2% account whatever's left in there. plug a hole. Uh try to find a way whether they do anything with the superintendent salary or whatever. By the way, speaking of superintendent thing, just so everybody understands this, I I reached out to Caitlyn. There was an email that went around that talked about

239the process of their decision making visav that particular thing. And what I got back from Kate was one of the reasons they had it on their agenda tonight was that back in September when they originally made the determination uh for that contract, they went into executive session, they had the discussion, they came out of executive session and forgot to turn the recording back on. So then when they voted for it, it's not recorded. So they're going, their intention, my understanding was tonight as we speak, they will be rectifying that by redoing the vote. All right, just so you know. Um, we've had that sort of thing happen to us repeatedly over the last six months. I think we've had a couple of meetings where we've messed up the recording in some way where I or

240uh Jim or somebody didn't click the button right, you know. So, that's what apparently happened. Anyway, back to back to the issue. Um, since we are in a position when we're not really ready to talk about town capital, since I don't think at this late hour we're really going to go through the choices that the board of selectman made at their meeting on Monday on town salaries, which I think we do need to talk about maybe next meeting. Yeah. Yeah. >> Then I would just simply say, does anyone else have a motion for a recommendation to the board of ed that they'd like to put forward? >> I mean, I think I think it's reasonable to make a recommendation. I just we haven't gotten one that the board's willing to bless. I >> I'll make

241a motion for four. I'll make a motion for four. >> I'll second that. We need to do something. >> Four. Yeah. >> Okay. >> We need to do something. But guys, and I'm I'm in line with you guys that we need to do something. 11's not going to fly. >> But if we're going to make a recommendation, all I'm trying to say, it has to be based on something. When you make it, Louise or Liz, you have to base it on something. You you you either believe you're saying, "We don't believe there's a 3% salary increase for the teachers. We don't believe we need $45,000 more for >> I didn't say we didn't need 3% salary for teachers." >> Talking for a minute. I I didn't say that. >> I got the minute. I have

242to mo the floor here is what don't you believe about what she put forward in the budget. There is $45,000 for a for a psychiatrist. There is a 3% raise. There is a $15,000 increase in the insurance. >> All I'm trying to say is if you're going to make a motion, make it a reasonable motion based on fact. Okay? You can't just say 2%. That's obviously and you just admitted it, Liz. That was a ridiculous number. Bas it on something. and and I would support anything, but tell me they don't need this, they don't need that, this is that's Don't say we don't get all the information we want. Say what they gave us for a budget, this much is Cut it out. And I support you 100%. But just say you can't just make

243up arbitrary numbers. >> There's a real school that has to be run here, guys. So come up with a real number. >> I think a 4% increase the 3% increases. >> Yeah, I think a 4% increase in a school budget is is pretty average for the area. That does not sound unreasonable at all. Ram's coming in with what, a 2 something% increase. >> They're 3 They're at 3.3. The reason ours is 2.9 is that our levy is down because our >> population is down. And that's another problem, too. >> They're at 3.3 um from a much higher base, by the way. much higher base. Ken, >> yeah, >> I asked for the math another way. Sorry to do this to the team, but I think this will be insightful. We have an 11% increase in

244school budget. If everything across the town remained flat, what would that 11% transfer to to our taxes? Is it a 500,000? >> All right, hold on. Hold on a minute. Let me um >> All right, hold on. If we zeroed out AES, >> uh, >> zero out everything but AES but AES. I apologize. >> 500. >> Hang on. Yeah. Well, they have they have about 500,000. But if I if I zero out Hang on this minus I'm just give me a spreadsheet. Give me a second for the spreadsheet. Now, bear in mind, we're zeroing out RAM, which we can't actually do, right? We can't No, I I'm just sitting there thinking full-blown. We're just looking at >> 6.4. >> It's a 6.4. >> No, that can't be right. No, that's not quite right. Hang on.

245That's got to be wrong. Give me a moment. >> It's about I think >> Let me do it this way. Hang on. Let me do it a different way. Give me a second, guys. I'm playing with the spreadsheet. Bear with me, please. Um, I'm having some technical difficulties because when I went to do that, >> you have a calculator in front of you. >> Yeah, I mean I I do I could do it that way. You're right. >> What do you do? >> You're trying to not increase anything but this but AES. >> Yeah. What that would be for >> All right. We were at 10.9. Um, well, this is raised by taxation, but yeah. So >> no, we were at 10,000. Sorry, we were at 10 million. >> Just take last year's >> last

246year's budget, right? >> That's right. >> Plus 500,000. >> Yeah, it's 5%. >> 5%. $500,000. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's a hair different than that, but yes, the the answer is it's just shy just shy of 5% for as alone. >> Yeah, I could have done that math. Sorry to make >> Yeah. No, no, guys. I was going my brain's low. I was coming about it the wrong way. I was coming about it entirely the wrong way. The easy way to do it is to just exactly look at the amount raised by taxation last year, which was just a hair over $10 million, and apply $498,000 and change to that. So, you end up with like 4.9. Yeah. >> Okay. So, then we take I want to do the same with I'm going

247to do >> the town the town right now. right now based and again this isn't I don't know that this is the end of the day number but the town right now is at an increase of 19790. Um again that so that's about it's a 4.5 increase 4.5% increase to the town budget but the actual impact you know and you put it up against the $10 million taxation right you know it it's it's you know 2%. Not quite. >> Okay. So, >> and then RAM is 120. Uh, wait, let me just double check. Yeah, 120. So, um, cuz I wanted to see what it would be if we took I mean, everything's going up right now regardless of what we're buying. So if we took everybody else out of the equation, just isolated them, we're

248looking at them contribute them as an AES contributing about 6%. So if we I'm just doing the math another way and working a little backwards. >> Yeah. 5% 5% is basically their their >> increase of the of the change. And bear in mind, you know, we have we have town we have town capital and then we have and you know that's a place again we have to look at. But uh yeah, we're looking at uh you know if if the math is right and I think it is you know if we're at 9.5 of that is ads roughly the remaining 4.5 is the rest. >> So I'm just going to do some math. I'm just going to do some quick math another way. >> That said, I mean, part of this is that, you know,

249revenue isn't going up by very much. There's a little there is a little increase to revenue. Lisa got me that. Uh, right. It's in there. Um, but it's not a lot. Our ECS grant money hasn't changed in years. Um, we don't have any information like we're not going to get any extra money for Towny Road or anything like that. So that stuff, by the way, we have some stuff that's off our budget, too. When we talk about transparency, there are some things in our budget that have never been displayed. And one of those is things like Town Road. >> Um, we've never put our town a road money in our budget. It's just netted out and ignored. But there is a grant, not a grant, a state fun. >> It's a state. >> Yeah. They

250give every town a certain amount of money. >> Certain amount of money >> for their roads. the roads. >> We call it town a road. Uh we also get low sip funds. There's some other things that are not plugged into the spreadsheet. You don't see them. They're under the hood. >> Um >> very true. >> To the extent that those are the same Lisa, cool. If they're not, if we if we're going to get some more, then obviously we need to >> Yeah. Everything that I have gotten so far is in that um except for the town road. um everything that they sent month ago, that's all I've gotten. And whatever there were no changes except for that 43,000 and then the other 99,000 is from the grand list, the filing of the grand. >>

251Yeah, that's that's grand list improvement. Yep. Yep. >> Okay. >> Y >> which is what I was waiting for and I saw that today and was happy to see it. So, thank you for getting that in there. We do have a slight revenue bump there, but it's not enough to do a heck of a lot um >> to cushion this. So anyway, we're back to a motion on the floor for 4%. Um, unless there's further discussion, we should vote on it. I mean, it's getting late, guys. We We should try to wrap this up soon. So, uh, all in favor of a recommendation to cut as, you know, the AES cut their budget down to a 4% increase. All in favor say I. >> I. >> All right. All against nay. >> Nay. Any abstensions?

252No. Okay. Motion fails four to three. Me, Bill, Heather, and Nick against. Louise, Liz, Kim, four. Okay. So again, I think a lot of us, even those of us who've been voting no, are not against the idea of a recommendation uh for some sort of cut. Uh but we haven't gotten there yet. Do we have another motion that someone would like to make that we could maybe go with? I mean, what I'd really love to see is again the spreadsheet or the budget that they gave us and we go through it and say these are things that we can't control. The salaries the teachers are going up, the insurance is going up, the psychiatrist, but these things are things that we can say you can't get this year. It's a bad year. We wish we

253could give them to you, but we can't because it's a bad year. So, if we could sit down and just say these things are necessary, they can't you can't say no to them. Maybe you're not going to get the teacher this year. Maybe she's not going to get a raise this year. I'm just saying that's a reasonable thing to do to to say these things can't be cut. You have to have them, but these things we wish we could give them to you, but you can't. >> There's a number in there somewhere that's reasonable and real. And that's all I'm trying to say. Rather than 2% I'm speaking instead of just making up arbitrary numbers, let's come up with a real viable number that we can support. If someone says to the board of finance,

254well, how did you come up with that? Ah, we picked it out of our ass. No, we got to come up with a real number. That's all I'm trying to say to Liz. I agree with you, Liz. It's too much. I agree with you, Louise and Kim. They're not going to get 11% and we know that. But what is real? What is realist? >> What do you believe, Bill? What what number would you pick, Bill? >> I don't have that number off top of my head, Louise, because I don't have that spreadsheet to say, all right, you have to give them the teachers. >> This was the day that we that we had to do this. We have This is the day we had to have to be done. >> My recollection is >> How

255is everyone comfortable with the 5%? >> All right. All I'm trying to say is >> is is 5% arbitrary number or is it a real number based on >> based on the conversations that we've been >> 11% is arbitrary in my opinion >> and the math >> the math that Nick just did with us and the formulas that he showed us how does everyone feel about 5%. That's meeting in the middle of both sides. I I think that that's getting closer and fairer to to what we're all trying to achieve here tonight >> and it is almost it is 10:30 in the evening. >> Yes, >> we're all getting tired and punchy. So, my recollection, and this is a little fuzzy math, but you know, my recollection is between the teacher raises and the the

256health insurance and stuff like that, like you're at four or 5% before you even are done with that. And then you've got the question of um you know, loss of grant money and then you've got the request for the new teacher. So, I guess the question is, guys, if our take as a board is, you've got to get that number down, guys. The question would be, what would you save if we were to say, you know what, we recommend that you cut you cut down to X because you could do it by not hiring that teacher. That's in my opinion not really our I mean, that would be our basis. It's not our job to tell them to do it that way. Um, my recollection is that that doesn't get you that far, it might

257get you a couple of percentage points down. Um, if you at the end of the day, as arbitrary as it is, what it boils down to is the board of ed has to make do with their their budget number as best they can. I would be very reluctant to make a large cut or sorry recommend a large cut because I don't feel like I am qualified to tell them well you don't need that parah or you don't need that teacher or gosh you know it seems like you're paying too much for psychological services at the same time I happen to agree with most if not all of you that 11% is you running into a bus stop. So my re I mean I don't want to make I'm the board chair. I'm just trying to

258I'm trying to hang back here and let you guys talk, but my humble opinion is that it should be a my gut is that if we make a recommendation, it should be something they could realistically hit, which means probably high single digits, not you know four or 5%. That's my take. Do with it what you will. Um, I I'll vote my conscience and you know, whatever. But I'm not going to I'm not going to put forward a specific number, but that's my gut answer here is that >> number one, get it down below double digits. >> Number two, I can't imagine that even 5% is really functional for them in this year, as rough as everything is for what they're looking at. So that's my take. I'm done. I I think I did a little

259math. >> I did a little math and if I if we did like if they got a 15% increase on their benefits and maybe cut the Well, I know we can't tell them, but if I looked at 15% to their increase and took out the 24,000 or something they had in transportation, I think that gets us to like an eight. >> Transport is not something they really control. I >> I got us I'm thinking 415,000 is what my math showed me. It shows a 9% which gives us below that number. It saves taxpayers almost 2% if my math is correct. I added I did quick kind of math I think similar to what Heather did. I did salary increases, psychologists, the raises, and health insurance. Um, and I I don't remember what the insurance increase

260was. >> 15%. By the way, I would just want to mention something. By the way, I love what you guys are doing. This is this is fact-based. I would just want to say one other thing. the with respect to their transport costs, one component I think of their transport costs is them paying literally paying the town for a vehicle. So be careful there like you're not actually saving us anything, you know, but some of it also might be um um when you have a sped kid that is outplaced, we are by law if they have to have transportation, we don't pay for it. like it's not a question, you know. So, transport I wouldn't screw with, but everything else this sounds good. Um, do your math. I mean, >> it but I don't think honestly

261>> the town won't vote for it. >> Yeah. >> I I listen, I'm not I'm not making like I'm just going I know it's here in a long time. I'm not gonna vote for 9% since 2007 bill. I'm not I'm not crazy either, >> you know, but so I think it's somewhere Listen, I don't want to pay more taxes either. >> I'm just trying to be reasonable to what she deals with, what the board at Fed has to pay for. >> That's all >> we got to come. >> We know that everything's going up. So, what is that number? I think it's probably, you know, even if we recommend nine, it's not going to go through. The town won't vote for it. I think you're more in the seven or eight% maybe the town vote

262for it, but nine this town won't vote for it. >> And I think any five six% we're not giving them enough to pay what they have to pay. >> It's a rock hard place. It's a rock and a hard place situation. >> It's legit. It's difficult. >> I think eight is it's hard though in a way no matter how you slice this guys. I I completely agree with you. I've been here since ' 07. I'm not an idiot. I know how this town is. I don't expect the town to suddenly go, "Great, we'll do a 7% increase in taxation year-over-year." Like, I I know this town. I'm not a fool. But that said, you know, part of what we need to do. This is the process. Sometimes we have to take a budget in and

263and say, "Look, we did our level best here. This is what we're bringing to you." And then the town says to us, "Pound sand." and we go back and then we we do what we have to do. Sometimes you have to go through that process. And what I would say to you guys is tonight I am all in favor of making a recommendation to the board of ed for for a you know moderate reduction if that's what you guys want to do. However, understand like what is your aim? Are you aiming to get to something that the board of ed might actually accept or not? Because if you come in and you're like, we want to take your 11% down to six, you're cutting it by almost half. So, you know what the answer is

264going to be there. So, as much as we're gaming this out from the standpoint of the town meeting, the referendum, right? Think about what if you're a member of the board of ed think put yourself in that position. I got a question on that. If we make the recommendation and can the school can AES say no, we're not. >> That's the idea. The idea is they get to write us back. They get to write us back and send us a letter and say for X, Y, and Z reasons, no. >> And then we go to town meeting, we go to referend, you know, if we make it to referend. And if the budget bifurcates, >> things change a bit. >> Yep. Um that's that's the plan for now. So yes, the idea here is we

265make a recommendation. If we say to them 8% again making up a number and they write us back, you know, Caitlyn writes me a letter. Share with your board. Rob, here's my letter. This is why the board of education says no, we have to have 11 that you know. >> Okay. But last year we didn't do that. We actually went down. >> Last year we didn't do anything. >> Didn't do anything. But then it came back to us. It went down to six. >> Right. It was bifocated threes. >> Yes. It was five. >> But they >> once the budget bifrocated, we took action. >> We didn't make a recommendation to them last year at all. >> No, we didn't make a recommendation. We didn't we u we took their 8.8 straight up. We didn't

266make a recommendation. That's the change this year uh that we've re I think again we've all read charter provisions and statutes that maybe we hadn't read before. Talk about 7.5. Would that would Does that seem fair? >> I'm sorry. What was that? 7.5. >> 7.5. Does that seem fair? >> 7.5. >> Yeah. Does that seem a little closer? >> It's a recommendation that I think it's only a recommendation. So, >> I mean, I'm not laughing. Huh? >> The taxpayer. Well, that's something that the taxpayers, you know, will appreciate. >> Let me let me run the numbers just so you guys know what that means while you talk. While you talk >> and the the board of finance can stand behind as a a team, a unifying front and we we've spent a lot of time

267talking about this. I think we definitely all have some ideas about what we want to get from the board of education moving forward. so we don't have to be up at meetings at 10:30 at night >> talking about what we're not getting. Maybe that's for the next meeting. But I'm I'm hoping maybe the 7.5 is fair for for everyone. >> So just so everybody knows just just to give you numbers that is a reduction in their request of 155,77935. The impact is that we get the taxation number down to 7.9. >> Okay. >> Well, and again, we haven't cut anything from the town side yet either. >> We haven't yet. And we we know we're going to we're going to talk about our capital. We're going to talk about those things. Yes. >> So, I

268second that. >> Okay. >> All right. Any uh further discussion before we vote on the 7.5% idea? >> Recommendation. >> Exactly. Anybody? Okay. All in favor of recommending a 7.5% increase to the board. >> I You're not voting. >> Thinking. >> I'm giving I'm giving you a minute. >> Thinking too. >> I'm thinking too. >> A lot of people I think are thinking. >> Come on, guys. This is fair. Well, I did have that question that like they can just say no, right? So, it doesn't say no anyway. So, they're gonna say no. >> They can. It's a recommendation. >> You say yes because >> I'll say yes. >> I don't want it to go any higher. >> Thank you, Heather. >> I I think this meeting they would understand that that's not your uh

269>> I don't want it to go >> where your heart lies. I think we get that. I think we've done our due diligence though because I just want transparency. >> Let me go back. Let me go back. Um, we had yes for Kim, yes for Liz, yes for Louise. Anybody did I miss Heather? Did you >> I'm going to say yes. >> Okay. Yes. So that's for It doesn't really matter what the rest of us do. That passes. Um, just for the sake of it. Uh, Naz, >> I'm going to abstain. Yeah, we're gonna be we're gonna be brave. >> I'll go nay just to be that guy. But anyway, uh Nick, >> Bill, you called us. >> I don't I'm not a I'm not a hard no on it. I swear >> then. Yeah.

270Yeah, I could abstain with Bill. >> We have four in favor. We have two abstensions and one no. Okay, that motion passes. So, what I will do is I will write an email to Caitlyn uh and inform her that uh the board of finances recommendation is that the board of ed reconsider their budget and aim for a 7.5. All right. >> I think it's fair. I really Kim I I think all of you I think it's fair. >> That one is a number that's not >> it's fair but you abstained. Well, my my reason again is again is if we had all the numbers in front of me and you could say this is how much the mandatory increases are, >> I would feel more comfortable about making a recommendation. But without that exact number,

271I don't feel comfortable making recommendation. >> But I I'm thinking basically on the side of the town and what the town's going to vote for. I don't know if they're even going to vote for 7.5, but I feel it's a fair number to go out and make a recommendation to and let them work towards is I'm hoping that they'll take your 11 and try and work towards that 7 and a half%. So, >> I think yeah, I think some of the taxpayers are going to vote it down. >> Oh, the tax. Um, but the most important thing I think I want to glean out of this conversation is, you know, we need to talk more as a board about what we want to get from the board of education and and and work together as

272a group to get it and work with the board of ed. >> Well, we got to build moving forward. >> I think that, >> you know, I sent them a really nice email asking about that one question about the grant because I couldn't find it in my research. You know, the answer that came back to me was so rude and my question was so precise. I was not digging. I was not poking anybody. And and what I did pull out of it is that there's a federal grant that's not listed in the state side of the state grants that I didn't even know they had. It not it's not recorded anywhere. So that that's not done to be bullying or picking. It's it's to pull information out so I can make good decisions for the

273taxpayers. >> Yeah. >> Can I can I say tell one story too? Last year when I started on this board, um I was trying to understand, you know, how the town works and and and whatnot and how contracts work and whatever. And I wanted to understand the contracts of the town. So I was nervous cuz I was new, but I sent an email to Eric, Eric Anderson. I said, "You think I could see the contracts for the contracted employees in the town?" And I felt a little odd about it. Within five minutes, I had it in my email. Bam. I'm like, "Oh." He's like, "Here you go." I'm like, "Oh, well, thank you." And I once had a conversation with him la uh I think it was the first year we went through this and

274he goes through this whole budget worksheet and he's going through all the salaries and we're going line by line and I and I'm looking and I was in Florida at the time and I'm looking at this and I'm going oh my god there's like people's names and their salaries and all this and that. I'm like I was very uncomfortable with that. And I and I went in and talked to him in the office. I said, "I'm a little uncomfortable that you're like displaying all this out for the world to see." I said, "I get it. We need to look at this and I appreciate it, but you know, maybe we could like skinny it down so we're not, you know, like so there's a title and not a name." He's like, "Liz, it's public information."

275And I was like, >> "And it is. >> Okay, I get it." >> Yes. >> And it it was just so easy asking questions. And that's just a story to relate to the the difficulties. Anyway, >> the polar opposite. That's all. >> Um, fair enough. >> We can move on. So, we can move on. >> Yep. No worries. >> So, I think what we ought to do at this point is do the last round of public speak if anybody's actually left and adjourn because we're getting late here. We've made our recommendation. I have sent >> already the emails to I sent two emails to Caitlyn. >> Oh, you did? >> Because I did not forget about the person question. >> No, I had it up. I just hadn't actually sent it. >> I admit I

276put it I phrased it very I was like I I don't know what this brush or break thing is. Can you give me more information? Just bear with me on this, Liz. I won't let it completely go. I just It's new to me, so bear with me. I phrase it. I just curious >> and I sent a separate email saying so you know aware the board tonight voted to make a recommendation that you guys get down to 7.5%. So those two are sent already. They're done. So, okay. >> No, I was just gonna say I know there's obviously some friction with the board of ed and everything, but if people communicated better or sent their information like Kim said and both ways, maybe the 11% we would have said sure because everybody would never have

277said sure. >> You know what I mean? We would have but you would have trusted the information say okay 11 is gotten behind it. >> We want to get to a place where there's trust from both boards. >> Both boards. Yes. >> And it's it's a it's proven very difficult uh over the last three years I'd say. Um in >> I thought it was just when me and Nick came. >> Frustrating. Nothing to do with you two. Yeah. No, this is a pre-existing condition, you might want to say. >> Um, anyway, so look guys, >> I just one thing, >> Rob. I try I tried to get actually the board of ed and the board of um board of selectmen and the board of finance together on a non- business type of thing, like a

278get together. >> Yeah. Last summer. >> Last summer. And no one from the board of ed even replied to me. >> Mhm. >> So, you know, you can do what you can do, but if people aren't open for it, what are you going to do, >> you know? >> Yeah. I mean, again, >> there's a lot going on here. Um, I'm not against I'm not against your idea, >> and also understand like you know as well as I know, like we're all volunteers, so it's often hard to get people together. Um, but no, I'm I'm not against that at all, Louise. And I appreciate that you tried that. >> You know, I've tried in my way. Um, we have maybe different approaches, but neither one of us has managed to succeed. So, >> um, I

279wish I wish we were in a better place. Honestly, I do. I just always felt like the board of finance and board of ed worked reasonably well together. It was um you know there was a lot of friction between board of suck and board of ed. Anyway, without airing all of that tonight um I'd like to do public speak and proceed uh to the end of our meeting. So let's see who do we have? Um Joanne, would you like to uh speak for the public? >> Oh gosh. I mean I don't envy you guys. It's not easy at all. Uh clearly um nope. Good luck. Um, it's it's a hard job and but I I do want to commend that everybody deserves to have their opinion and be respected for it. You're clearly it's easy

280to read the room where everybody is and I probably could have pegged it before the meeting even started, but you're all allowed to voice in your opinions and should be respected for that. you know, as a former member, I put so much time and effort into it and and you guys need to do that, too, you know, and you are and and you deserve respect for giving your time like this. But the one thing I found too, and the other person that deserves big kudos again is Lisa because she's new, but she has done so much stuff. It's amazing. Um because Oh, Rob, I want to commend you for bringing up those um funds. As you know, I've always campaigned to put a couple cuts here and there because they are like big savings accounts

281and sometimes in a hard year like this, you know, they're saving to do projects which are needed in the town, you know, by budgeting a little bit each year. And maybe this could take a little bit of a cut here and there. Nobody ever wants to do it and it's hard work, but like Bill said, nobody's going to pass this budget if it's that high. So you may have to just, you know, knock a little bit off here and there, you know, because there's big amounts in each one when you get the balances. I had found Wallally's while you guys were all talking that um that yearly payment for the fire truck is 11778052 and Wally had sent us a memo that he was asking for that SCBA equipment because the fund balance was up

282to $567,000 and 673. So it was a huge amount. So, by lpping a little bit off here and there for one year and then kind of figuring out what you need each year, you guys can do that. >> Thanks for looking up the lease payment. I prefer that when I >> lower than I thought it was. I may have to go back to Wall-E and and and double check that cuz the 137 in my head had been >> he said added to the budget this year and to the capital fund. >> I don't I don't know if it's if it's truly flat, but I may have to go back to Wally on that. So, thanks Joan. Yeah, the 137 makes up a couple things. >> That's what I thought that it was more than just

283the payment. It wasn't just the payment >> looking for crazy things that she can't find. The poor thing, you know. So, I found that one piece of paper that >> there is 137 deposit 117 very close to what I paid Salem when they had their final truck. >> Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna get there, Lisa. We're going to get there. Uh, thank you, Joanne. >> I do appreciate it. T, do you uh have comment for us? >> She's sleeping. >> I don't know. We might have put her in her bed. I don't know. >> Uh I don't blame her if we did. >> That's it. >> All right. And then of course, I mean, Eric, I I can't believe you're stuck with us. U further to say, sir, now's the time. I'd just like to

284thank the board for having me on tonight. You guys got a rough job ahead of you. I wish you luck and uh if you need anything from me, please feel free to contact me. >> Yeah, we'll do. Thanks, sir. >> Um and likewise, thanks to Lisa for being here, uh and helping us so much. Uh you know, and you and I will continue to work on this stuff, huh? >> Yeah. Well, I I'm dying to get to the bottom of it. I I hate when stuff is unsettled. I don't >> Well, I I got that impression from you and I appreciate it. >> So, we'll see what we can do there. Okay. >> Y >> um All right. And I think I mean, honestly, I don't see anybody else. This is Community Voice, which is

285our channel. So, um >> that's it, folks. Unless, you know, >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn. >> I love it. Seconded by Bill. Very good. Louise motions. Bill seconds. >> All in favor? I >> I >> everybody >> looks like seven to me. Well done everyone. Thank you very much and