001going to call this special meeting of the town council's order at 7:03 p.m. Please rise to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. All right, that brings us to consideration of town council's proposed budget. Before we begin our discussions, I will just make a note to our counselors and public that um we're going to do things a little bit differently this time um which is once we census for lack of a better term of couple scenarios we'd like to run. We're going to recess and Getta has reasonably asked for about half hour to run scenarios to make sure that all the eyes are dotted and the tees are crossed. Um so with that spirit, I'd like to turn
002it over to Brian to give an overview forward. Thank you so much, chair. As you know, last night uh our referendum failed by 148 votes. 2% raise was failed. Our next referendum is June 3rd. Same library programming room here at town hall as a Tuesday 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Uh in light of last night's failure, I'm required to present another budget. I'm I'm presenting a proposed budget of of a 1.5% spending increase compared to fiscal year 25. Uh in your agenda, I believe should you should have in the uh agenda item is a listing of all the cuts that I have uh on the town side of things. In total, the town operating budget adjustments re result in a reduction overall of $288,169. uh from the May 13th referendum, it's 192,000. So from our
003last referendum to now on the town side alone, we've got $192,670 uh plus an additional $95,499. Uh from the board of education side, a $449,560 uh reduction was approved on May 13, 2025. This is an additional $222,850 uh reduction to achieve a 1.5% spending increase. In total, the board of operating budget adjustments results in a reduction of $672,390. The town's overall budget expenditures have been reduced, bringing the budget increase down from 2% to 1.5% in my proposed in comparison to 2025 uh last year's adopted budget. Additional detail. The board of education's operating budget expenditure uh at with this proposed budget is an increase of 1.46% or $693,13. And the town's operating budget is an increase of 1.06% increase, a total of 149,57. of note there I pause are the the town increase that I'm proposing
004of 149,000 our Echip uh insurance costs alone are going up 139,000 it doesn't go in everything else contractually or um all the other increases so uh it's it's going to be a painful year mill rate uh with this budget is 27.19 reflecting reduction of 10.58 mills so the mil rate is going to go down 10.58 with this ro budget or a 28.01% 01% compared to the current mill rate of 37.77 uh mills. I can tell you that each referendum costs between five and $6,000. We are going into our third. Uh Kathy Pagan, our town clerk's here. She's going to talk a little bit about the timing uh in regards to the the upcoming referendum. Jack, hi everybody. Um I'm just going to give you a quick breakdown of what it takes in order to order
005the ballots and have them in place. Um if you guys get the question to us tomorrow like as soon as possible um we have to publish the e-last to the town um and then I work with the registars to um create a ballot. There's a new system to creating the ballot that adds a whole extra day to it because of the new tabulators that you're all aware we have. Um we have to submit the question to this new company. The company has to create a template of it. They send me the PDFs. That takes a full 24 hours. Then I sent it to the printers and from there the printers can get it get us the actual printed ballots in 24 hours. The hiccup for this one is that Monday is Memorial Day. We're losing
006a day. So I did the timeline and just so that you guys know with getting the question tomorrow, we won't have the ballots until best case scenario, Wednesday afternoon. Um that would be Wednesday the 28th. Um, and it could be as late as Thursday, the morning of Thursday 9th, which means that as far as absentee ballots go, I can only issue them to people who walk in per state statute. We can't mail them for any referendum that's under three weeks notice. So, those persons would only have the opportunity to get an absentee ballot on Thursday the 29th and Monday, June 2nd. That literally gives them only two days to vote if they're absentee. I've already gotten phone calls from people, you know, upset about that, but that's our time frame. It sounds like a lot
007when we have two weeks, but we really don't. And that's why I wanted to explain to you what happens once we get your question. Okay. Thank you, Kathy. Uh, moreover, if if um I have a complete I asked our tax collector for some complete information should the uh refer the budget process extend beyond July 1st. We do not have an approved budget by July 1st. Uh if that does occur, section C9-10 of our town charter uh defines out what exactly will occur, but we will basically uh have to send out tax bills based on this year's mill rate of 3.77, which will cause people to get exorbitant tax bills. likely with the mill rate dropping the way it is and what's going to happen is uh we would likely have to issue refunds as you
008can imagine to to get a service to handle all that billing and all those refunds uh there'll be a significant cost. I had her put something together uh and once it's finalized I will email that out to you if we get close to getting to July and it's getting late. So that's all I have. Thank you. Thank you, Brian. And thank you, uh, Kathy, for giving us an explanation of the of the timeline. One more thing, Mr. Sheriff. Yes, Barry Bernardi, our our financial advisor is on here, uh, on should we need him later to talk about anything in relation to unsigned funds. Any questions? Okay. Thank you. Um, with that, we'll go to questions and comments and, um, any suggestion, revisions to the town's proposal. Thank you, Brian. Um, fortunately that failed yesterday budget
009um for us. I know a lot of surrounding towns are also struggling. I think Bolton's just failed yesterday from smaller towns. Again, we're doing the best we can in the office situation and it's not we're not lying when things will be reduced. But saying that, Brian, I asked specifically where or what departments would be affected and I don't know if you I know we've been busy, maybe not. I'm sorry, but you have 188,747. Can you give the council an idea of what services or what departments might see those reductions? First, I would send out an email to all the directors and staff. Would anyone voluntarily look to cut? As we know, Mike openson already stepped forward uh and did that. And I would ask again uh and and you know, obviously, you know, I walked
010in this morning crying staff. Sure. No other way to put it. Um and uh everyone's worried and I can't call someone to my office just to ask them a question without them thinking they're getting the call to, you know, be told their jobs on the line. Um it's awful. So the first step would be to determine if anyone voluntarily uh look to either you know reduce hours if they wanted to if they had other job opportunities um those sorts of things and from there we try to lower that number down as best we can work with all the department head to see where their cuts are and then determine all the departments so name that's that's where the the cuts could potentially um so I can't isolate it to one I'd have to look at
011the salaries we'd look at contracts let's say we have a part-time person who's uh a union person well they they have a it's called I call it a trickle down um if they have seniority in that position in that department we think that we can get rid of which there are none uh but we would have to do that then that person would have to have the rights to the next person lower to them in seniority and so there are so many variables to determine where we would find that money and how we could best place it without hurting the the most the people um you know I can't give you a definitive I don't I'm not sure the board has their definive as to who's going to get cut um at this point, but
012I have a very small pool, very small and and you know each department with a handful of people. Uh so it it could touch any department you name. So there's just a lot of variables that we have to we have to consider and then you know considering the services that are going to get cut and how that impacts the talent uh those weigh heavily on. So, it's I said both last night a couple questions and this morning we got some followup and one of them was trash pick up recycle but shredder or whatever we want to call it. It's fiveyear contract. Yep. So, we're unable to even give them a call and be like this is a bad idea. Can you help us out? I know we've done that with other like fuel and stuff.
013That's not is that an option? This is a massive contract and companies make purchases and hiring uh people and such based on contracts, you know, with towns. Um, in order to get out there, one, there'd have to be a legal review on our side. Um, then likely some negotiations uh with the contract. Um, and I'm certain there'd be some sort of penalties or buyouts after that on top of legal fees. And then on top of it, we no longer have trash service for everybody. Um, so it's a good idea, you know, to look into that. Uh, but we entered into a five-year contract, which we're in the second year of, uh, now, and it's maybe it's something we consider at when we're going into year four and year five. But, um, it it'd be problematic
014to say the least. We do not have a um, we don't have a town dump. We don't we don't have a transfer station here. working on an agreement with Stafford to to bring your own bulk items there in the future. Uh so it'd be problematic and costly just to get out of that contract. Um and then and I'm again I'm not sure Jacob and Chris if you share it with your caucuses or not. Um, one of the other questions I did ask, um, any open positions that can be put on hold and one was commented that laborer, which is about $83,42. Would it be a smart idea at this time just to put that on hold and that's another $83,000 or you're going to hire somebody while you're laying off people? I'm just Right. Well,
015that that was already budgeted for. Um, but it's certainly up to your consideration and and uh you asked what open positions we have, not whether or not I can afford to get rid of them. Um, remember they cut the position uh four years ago from from uh DPW in good faith saying they would restore it the following year. Well, guess what? We all know it has not been restored. And now um we have this one as a potential hire. So those are all things you know we would have to weigh. Um but you know again like the trash it's a good uh recommendation and and something to look at. I mean I don't want trash or anything cut either. I get it. But I mean we have to look at I have to make a
016choice which you know in a situation like this um I think it's not a bad idea. I think and I was quickly I forgot my budget talk but I know you know recreation department their staff gets basically paid out of their the money they make like is there someone that's full-time that could take from the general you know the operational and go take some out of their fund or you know what I mean like you split it so you there's very little that comes out of the fund into their their salary. Yeah, I thought almost I didn't know there's room to even do something like that to save like 15$20,000. That is and the person still gets to keep the job. That's a slippery slope um to get into and you know it's we've had
017some good years to to build that fund up based on um remember we we had supplemented that uh funded or supplemented the parks and wreck. So, uh, I do not I absolutely do not think that's a good idea. I I would rather remove than Okay. get into that tricky situation. I want to take up other people's time, but that's all I have for questions. Maybe I'll just add and just quick note and then I'll go to someone else. Um, you know, one thing just to keep in mind is the fiscal year begins July 1, you know, and found out the budget failed less than 24 hours ago. So, I'm sure, you know, Brian and Yolita and town department heads will continue to think about, you know, how to come up with reductions and they might
018have better ideas in the next couple of weeks rather than what they have now. I guess my my point is it's like this is a good conversation to have, but you know that the town I'm sure will take good advantage of the next few weeks to really sort things out. And I don't want to sound I wanted to sound Yeah. wrong here and and I Colleen wasn't suggesting any of those things. You were just asking. So you get the wrong idea. She's just asking about those and that's what we have to do. So I embrace that. And none of those required even a job reduction. It was just thinking about going outside the box. Yeah. I don't want anybody to be reduced. So those all were ways of preventing anybody um as much because we
019can't control what Ford does for their so yeah thank you Ryan for making that clear and I want to make that clear. Um Go ahead. Um, sure. So, thanks. So, Brian, just for clarity, um, your budget includes clawback of 200,000 of the 400,000 we have fun. So, going 200,000 going back into correct. So, 200 we're using 200 and we're the previous budget had 400,000. We're I'm recommending keeping 200,000. This is after careful uh talks with uh and other adviserss um over the last that's that's what I'm recommending. Yes. Um so in respect to your budget um I still think it's a little too high. I just you still have to remember that, you know, we're talking about cutting our budget by a certain amount, but the residents of this town had to cut their budget
020by $3.2 million. So, they have to come up with some way to come up with an extra $6.2 million out of their budgets to to fund basically a zero budget and then now we're asking them to even pay more. So you look at our history of how kind of what kind of tax increases we have and we're seeing just because and it's it's nobody's fault. It's just the way it worked out with reassessment that um you know people are seeing double digit increases in their taxes and if you look at our history we've never had a double digit tax increase. So, you know, we're asking the residents to pay double digit tax increases on top of the additional tax increases that we're trying to pass here. And, you know, this is the reason why we're
021here on our third referendum now is because we're really trying to push too much additional taxes on to the residents of this town. And they they've been pretty pretty clear that they're not going to take that. They're not happy about that. So I think I think realistically if we want this budget to pass and I think it'd be a huge mistake to go like we did last year on a fourth referendum I think we have to come down a little bit more and I would propose a 1.2% increase budget stick for $200,000 addition fund balance usage on top of what the original budget said and even that I think be a challenge, but I think it stands a reasonable chance because it puts the mill rate pretty close to 27%. It shows that the town
022has to make a sacrifice like the people in our town do. And um I think the people understand, you know, there has to be a little bit of an increase because, you know, costs have gone up and we're going to have to make cuts. The town's going to have to make cuts. We're going to have cuts, but so will people in our town. So, thank you, Council Sh. Um, uh, councelor B. Um, so I want I had a clarifying question. Um, so the $200,000 that we're talking about from unsight from balance, um, is that going back to our original proposal which we had stipulated that was 160,000 for the Fitch study and 140 something for board of education. Yes. So that goes back. Wait a minute. What do you mean? That's what I didn't prop.
023So just 200,000. So we're not doing the original So we're so we're we're eliminating that, but we're still using 200,000 in the underlying fund balance to mitigate the tax increase. Yes, ma'am. Okay. We're not restoring the items that we had asked to be restored in the last budget. That is my proposed would be a is a true 1.5% spending increase net all fund balance usage. Yes. But so okay so thank you for clarifying that. Um with respect to the 1.5% how did you arrive at that? How did you determine that should be the target number? um based on failed referendum after failed referendum into our uh third referendum looking at what um I think is reasonable and fearing a zero that's where I 0% um that's that's where I came in you know in consideration
024of all factors. Okay. Thank you. Um and then uh um piggybacking on uh Commissioner Udichek's question about um the trash item. Um just this came up a little bit after the last meeting. We did a little bit of So just to be clear, we're proposing we proposed an original um 2.9 9% with then we went down to 2% and now we're at 1.5%. inflation in 204 was 2.9%. Inflation is from 5 to 22.3%. So we're not keeping up with inflation again. Um so every time we do that, we ourselves a little bit more and we've been cannibalizing ourselves for quite a number of years. Um so we understand that again the insurance company's going to get paid, we're going to get paid, Eversource is going to get paid, everybody's going to get paid. So that
025means that we start to eliminate services and we eliminate additional services to satisfy the reduction in the budget and the need to compensate and help you know the insurance company especially need to compensate um those people which keep raising their costs and then keep paying them. So, um, one of those things is, um, significantly the trash budget, which we don't really ever talk about. Um, we I think that you've done a good job with, you know, negotiating a 5-year contract, but we never really talk about what it cost us to throw our stuff in in the landfill. Um, Connecticut right now sends our trash to Pennsylvania and Ohio largely. So, we we we run out of space. We don't have any place to send this. So that's where we we send a lot of it.
026So it's extremely expensive, keeps going up. Um the $1.33 million is actually 50% of our entire health insurance costs. Our entire health insurance cost this year, which is exceeding many other years, is 2.66 million. Our our trash disposal is 50% of that. Our trash disposal is more than the entire community services budget by over $100,000. And it's way more than all of the land use boards, wetlands, public health, agriculture commission, engineering, building official, and the town clerk by another half million dollars. So, it's huge. 2% of our whole budget. Um, it doesn't include bulky waste, which is a capital item, which is good to know because I think that that's important to keep. Um but there are Connecticut programs um which other towns have been using successfully which have either you know pay pay by
027uh unit weight or pay as you throw. There's a there's a couple different scenarios here where people actually um pay for what they throw away and it has the effect of reducing the amount of refues and the amount of cost by 40 to 55%. So, I think it's and that's based on I'm looking at the fact sheets um they're available on the Connecticut uh.gov website. So, I think it's really important for us to look at that because when we talk about all the services and we talk about the things that we need to sacrifice, we never talk about that one. And of all of the things that we could do, that is something that would be a benefit both both in reduce cost, reduce waste, and um would really could really positively um affect our
028budget. So, I would throw that forward as something that we should look at. Um, and I'm not suggesting that we break the contract right now, but I think that it's something that we need to do some long-term planning on um because we're not going to get out of this particular situation right now um without long-term planning. Um, I'm hoping that uh the shift of the tax burden from corporate business properties to homeowner properties is um something that we may be able to revisit depending on what happens in the economy um and whether this real estate thing is a bubble or not. And I would also like to make sure we do um and I appreciate uh the chair's understanding that the that the the heads of the departments have to look at what they're going
029to do, have to evaluate, but I think that um it is essential for us to try to look at if we're talking about we're going to cut services, we're going to try to reduce percentages that we have to understand the impacts of what we're doing. No company on face of this planet where any of us as people who are in charge of professional services which in well is includes a lot of this here none of us could walk into a manager or a CEO or board of directors and propose to make either increases or cuts without identifying the impacts of those based on a bibe. You don't plan a budget on a budget. And so I think it's prudent for us to do the investigation that Colleen was just asking for and that um we're
030discussing here tonight. Um so I want to make that very very clear. Um, and the other thing that I want to make clear because there was some um, communication back and forth that there is that that um, there's a lack of transparency in the budget process. And I want to make sure that if anybody um, we have a 300page budget document with a an enormous amount of detail in it. Um, we've had dozens a dozen or more meetings. Um and then if anybody wants to reach out for an explanation, please do so. The information is there. The information is available to you. It is um available to be fully explained to you. So please reach out. Thank you. Um any other counselors? Cand. Yeah. Um just more of a general comment. I don't I don't
031really know what to say. Um we've worked together um for the last few months uh trying to you know work through this budget as council mentioned. It's a it's a tough year, right? And it's going to be a tough year. Um it was a tough year when we were starting this process with the first budget and it's obviously getting tougher. It's tough for residents to pay taxes. It's tough for the town to continue to operate and the schools to continue to operate. Um, and I'm genuinely appreciative of the council um that we worked collaboratively. Um, we, you know, we tried to come to consensus. We didn't all do that. And so here we are. Um, I mentioned last meeting if we if we didn't all support it or at least they sign it, we would
032be back here. So we are. So I don't really know what to suggest. um because you just haven't tried to engage with us and tried to to to reach common ground. Um so I just don't I don't really have any more to add um other than that I'm concerned for the town. I'm concerned for our schools. Um and I'm obviously I'm mindful uh of uh burden to taxpayers. hesitant to to use less unassigned fund balance um in a year that's hopefully once in a generation where we have this shaft tax shift. Um I'm I'm hesitant not to use that to help the town to help taxpayers um versus continuing to cut deeper and deeper into town services. So, um, um, yes, I didn't go yet. Or councelor Buckler and Council Sh. I think we're exactly
033where Joe wants us to be. Considering the fact that he sent out yet another text message to the town to vote no in the budgets. He must be extremely giddy to be here tonight. It's too bad that Alex isn't here. So you have a fourth vote. It's going to be a really long night for everybody. Um, with that being said, I know that the ultimate message that's always put it at forth by the TRTC as well as councelor Sheay is that we're always doomsdaying these things and that, you know, the board of ed lies. They're sitting on piles and piles of money. Um, the budgets that are being proposed don't even take into consideration the fact that the board of education's insurance line has gone up, I think somewhere in the in the realm of
034like $900,000. Um, I'm sure none of you have watched their most recent meeting where they discussed where the cuts were going to be coming from. You know, we're supposed to have assigned town counselors attending the bored meetings. Doesn't seem to be happening. Um, I mean, you can go around saying that the board of ed is full of it, that they're not going to cut anywhere, and that's pretty much the line that you guys keep going with. So, you know, all I have to say is good luck. You guys can change the budget as much as you want. Continue doing what you do, Joe. Continue with your lovely pictures that you text to people at 11 p.m. Um, I think it's negligent. I think it's not in the best interest of this town. I think your
035entire town committee has done a lovely job of making this a complete circus. And so I blame the Talon Republicans for continuously trying to tank this budget. And I don't think that includes every single Talin Republican that's sitting at this table. I think Jacob did a wonderful job trying to come to consensus. Colleen did a wonderful job trying to come to consensus. Alex did a wonderful job. It all falls on Joe. So, good luck. That's all I have to say. Sh. So, I wasn't going to bring up the past, but since we wanted to go down the road, you want to go down past. But it seems like we need a history lesson here because seems like you forgot pretty much forgot every single thing that happened last year when we tried to pass the
036budget. So let's look at last year first of all. Um the Democrats had the majority, right? You guys came in all cocky. You're going to pass the biggest expense increase the board of ed board of ed has ever had. Completely ignoring the way the town votes historically. completely ignoring the demographics of this town which is made up of 28% elderly, very little uh very little commercial base to support our taxes. You're going to ram your big tax increase through, right? How that work out for you? Pass first referendum because you had it. You had you had all the votes, you held all the power. How that work out for you? So, we had failed referendum number one. Then we get to failed reference. Then we get to referendum number two. Referendum number two. Let's see
037what we have. We went from three million down to 2.8 million one three. So less than $200,000 reduction. You guys are still all gung-ho. Think you can get this down through uh through the taxpayers. Again, completely ignoring the history of this town, completely ignoring our demographics. And what happened? failed referendum number two. Right? So now things are starting to get a little bit uglier. We're getting nasty emails coming in from uh fellow Democrat members about how certain certain uh council members aren't falling into line. They're not going they're not supporting this great increase that you guys want to do. And um so we went to referendum number three. So we dropped down from 2.8 me to barely $100,000 reduction. And again, you guys thought for sure this is going to pass after being told you're
038not listening to the voters. You're not paying attention to anything that's going on in this town. You don't care. You're trying to get the board of vet as much as they possibly can. And so you're still going to try to pass this. Failed referendum number three. Now things are getting even nastier. We've got Councilman Buckler Fowl texting councelor uh Udichek about how she's not falling at the line. That has nothing to do with this budget. Absolutely nothing. It has everything to do with your attitude and how oh this budget fail because my and how this budget process has been taking. I listen to you Jim. What do you listen to? Can we stick to this your budget? I don't know what this happens with this year's budget. We get to referendum number four. It's a
039reasonable budget is finally presented in such a way and you brought up the fact that I haven't been supporting the budget. If I recall, the chairperson of the town council last year publicly indicated she would not support the fourth round and lo and behold it passed. Go ahead, look it up and wins. Lo and behold, it passed. So somehow, even if you don't get full support, if you go with what the voters are telling you to do and you listen to the people, a budget passes. So here we are again in this current year. So we have first referendum number one. We nailed our residents, not through our fault in any way, but we nailed our residents with the highest tax increase they've ever had. Uh double digit tax increases. It's a 3.2 million, like
040I just said, 3.2 2 million tax increase on their res on our residents. They've had a sacrifice for their for their own personal budget to absorb basically a 0% tax increase. So you guys come along again 3% we're going to we're going to tack on another 3% increase on top of the double digit decrease that they're already having. And anybody who sat through last year's referendum fiasco can't possibly be scratching their heads as to why that didn't pass. That was like a guaranteed loss. Referendum number one we just had. So referendum number two, little bit of a reduction. A lot of doomsday stuff going around. Um tried to tell you guys that's still going to be too high considering the impact that the that the uh rebound has had on our res doesn't matter. We're
041going to try to pass it anyway. And here we are doing our front. So, I got to ask you, do you learn anything in this process in the past two years? Or is it just it's all my fault somehow? Really? That's the best you got? Fine. There was Let's pass Let's pass a real budget, counselor. All I'm asking and and I'm glad that you appear to be engaged now in the budget is work with us, right? I mean, we we you and I met when we spoke last year. We you know, I'm willing to speak this year. I've done that with all of your counterparts and you haven't put forward an option that you've been trying to work in your face. So, you have tonight. So, great. But, you know, all I'm asking for is
042to work together. That's all I ask for, right? And, um, so we are where we are, right? Um, so that's all I ask for is, you know, that didn't happen. Um, I mean, I don't even know if it's happening now, but um, certainly there hasn't been any willingness to work with us. Well, the first refer Brandon, you guys, you guys were very uh I say firm, but when you say you guys mean the other six. Yeah. Okay. I mean, look, we had our we had our caucuses and we discussed um we discussed, you know, different options and things like that. But, you know, the rest of the rest of the rest of my party wasn't willing to go as down as as low as what I know we need to get down to to pass
043this budget. So, I said, "Okay, you know, go ahead and vote. I'm just one person, you know, but if you want to vote for this budget, go ahead and vote for the budget and let's see what happens. And that's that's what they did. So, you know, I'm not going to stop them. I'm not going to say, you know, if you guys don't vote me, you know, you jerks. I'm not suggesting that you stop. Just it would have been nice to, you know, try to engage in some sort of dialogue. Um, I knew I knew I wasn't going to get anywhere guys. I just knew it. You guys were convinced you get% and I just knew you weren't going to listen to me. So, I'll let you vote and we'll let the or let you guys
044pass that pass that budget and I sent a text message so people vote no. Yes. Keep going. No, people are very concerned as to why I was the only one that voted no. Like, why is this one guy not voting no? And I figured it's good opportunity for them to understand my thought process on that. And there's a lot of people, as I'm sure you saw, that fully agree with me. They're like, "Yeah, why aren't you listening to us? Why aren't you putting forth lower budget? Why does the council keep passing these insanely high budgets? So that's what I did. And there's already been a there was a mistake. I have no control of that. It's nothing that I That was a second text message. There's like a system that they use. They they have
045a screw up in the way the system like launches a text and I don't know because it's a technical thing, but it was supposed to go like 4 p.m. or something. and it didn't hit until like 11:00 whatever whatever company he I don't even know who does this but that's what it wasn't it wasn't like purpose type of thing to try to wake everybody up okay so want to get back to the question at hand there's a 1.5% proposal from there's a 1.2% proposal council which I believe you had sent in this morning to you to run some numbers so it can be distributed to counselors if that hasn't been done already. Um are there something when did it go? Yes. So if I can just clarify again that the request that uh council Joe
046proposed was uh reduct additional reduction of $500,000. So it brought to 1.24. It's very it's a long rounding percentage. So if we're going to focus on 1.2% there's going to be a slight difference which is I reim the numbers but I'm going to double check. It's like $9,000 that we have to reallocate it. So it just want to say so it's going to be with the $200,000 the last month. That's right. Yes. Okay. Thanks. Yes. Yeah. Can you just forward that email to all counselors? The original one that they sent to you. Yes. Chris and Jacob were CC, I believe, on so we returned it to Chris and J. What's that? I'm just glad I got this a little earlier today. Thank you. Um so those scenarios are run people can look at them um
047these two scenarios. Yeah the 1.5 and the 1.2 one etc. Um but yes council you check so I haven't seen it whatever. Um so what is the 1.2 like what is that number? Is it 300 400 56 $700,000 just the reduction additional reduction? Was it 500? It was 500 with 1.2% either. It's going to be 59,327 additional reduction. So, like I said, it's $9,000. What's the spending increase though? Spending increase 1.2%. No, no, no. What dollar? Oh, the spending increase $763,991 7 Well, yes, because that was there's a difference. Yeah, total. I'm sorry. The 700,000 plus is total. Yes. 763,991 um down B and uh capital increases. And what did you say that somebody said the insurance costs were or were the I think it's 930,000. I'm sorry. I think it's 930,000. That's additional. No,
048above and beyond. Yeah, it's at 930,000 more than last year. Right. That's what I'm talking about. So spending increase over the whole plus above 40 for the town. So a million70. So we're $300,000 in the whole just on insurance. Correct. And I I think if I'm remembering correctly, the board of ed is actually covering a good portion of claims that come from town employees because they cover 90% as opposed to the town covers the 10%. So they're they're kind of paying for town employees claims as well, which is yeah, a bummer. I'm just I just want to understand that clarification. So um so the total is set up for 700,000. So if you don't mind I'm going to run scenario exactly 1.2% and then we can talk about it okay because like I said the
049percentage is a little bit let me just clarify councelor Shay because you had run that scenario this morning do you actually want to see the difference between the 1.21 It's like $1,000. That's not It won't change any mill rate. It won't change the mill rate. I just have to work, you know, which custo I think I think it's fine. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Okay. Um maybe because you have questions about it and you could just share Can you share your I have to go downstairs. Oh, you do? Okay. She has to go downstairs to share her screen. She can do that. Okay. Maybe I maybe I'm just saying it could be useful to just kind of see that actually on a spreadsheet and we can also look at think of the 1.5 at the
050same time to see what that looks like. Thank you. Yeah. Do you want us at the table? I think so. Okay. Thank you. Can we use this time just to talk about next year a little bit and like the impact that we Yeah. talking. Yeah. Well, actually would be really good to have here as well. Maybe we just take a recess. All right. tell you what is ready. Yeah, we were we were gonna allow you the time to present the scenario. Yes. Yeah. Do we need a motion? We need a motion. So, I'll move that we recess for 30 minutes to allow town staff to provide the requested scenarios for the budget. Okay. Second. Yes. I'll second that. Okay. All those in favor? I recess. All right, we're going to call council back from recess
051and I'm going to turn it over to Getta um to walk us through the scenarios. Let's go through the 1.5 and the 1.2 that council has suggested. Please let me know when you can see your screen. But it's make it as big as you can. Okay. Okay. This one. How is visual now? Better. Better. Okay. Um so I hidden uh some rows and some um some columns here just for visual for uh just the important information that needs to be shared on the screen. The column I is representing town manager's budget proposal 1.5% increase and row 85 it does include um well it it it has a reduction of $200,000 on assigned fund balance from the budget that failed. So total of use and assigned fund balance and MUN stabilization fund is 1,27,000. And right
052here town operating budget is 14,178465 which is 1.06% 06% increase from FY25 adopted budget. Education operational budget is [Music] 44,51,751 which is 1.46% increase and total operating budget. Sorry, let me hide this. The total operating budget the row 97 of town and education is 1.36%. Again in a total increase of 1.5% we also it's also in calculation of capital improvement fund increase of $166,829. That's why it the oper operating budget increase is 1.36% but overall town budget increase is 1.5%. What it brings us to the mill rate 27.19. Any questions? Yeah, but if no counselors have any questions on the numbers here and I'll give them a second to answer this. I'd like to look at the um low, median, and high bill rate numbers. Answers that questions. Can we also look at the corresponding
053credits to the businesses? Because like as we discussed, this is a dude, right? So every time we drop the mill rate, we were at 20% reduction to business uh corporate uh property. Uh so if we can also look at what that's doing, that would be great. That 20% gets put back onto the home or owners, too. Correct. Can you see my second screen which is has purple and green or no? Yes. Perfect. Okay. So, you should have the print out as well. um column P, QR, and S actually represents the town presented uh town managers presented budget and the impact uh to the tax bills. So, let me just hide some of these so we can rest My apologies. Technical difficulties. Okay, here you go. Wait, I think just a second. I think I hidden
054something here. Just My apologies. I have to hide some things and just so it's you can see it in the screen. Okay. So if we look at the low, median and high residential and columns PQR and S. This is the impact of the mill rate 27.19. And this is the difference of tax in tax bill increases and as council uh BB said here is the commercial of as well. So this is this portion the commercial is the bottom portion that got to the break in the correct yes row 111 to 115. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Any questions here? You can go on. All right. Let me go back to this. So if we look at the scenario um that council job posted now's not listening. My apologies. Um, again, we do have here a
055reduction of $200,000 on a use of unassigned fund balance, bringing us to 1,27,000. And the request was to reduce additional $500,000 and that was split proportionally 30% 70% between town and BOE. That would bring us to 1.25% into 15% um spending increase from FI25. Um and again um row 92 represents town's budget. Row 94 board of education budget. The total town and board of education operating budget increase is 1.05%. And the other increase is related to capital improvement fund projects which is again it was kind of offset by an assigned fund balance at the beginning when we would develop the budget but overall increase is 1.25%. The mill rate on this scenario it's lower. It's 27.09. And we if we go back to another document where we look at the impact of the tax bills
056the col columns T, U and V and W represents um cancel joy scenario which is with the mil rate 2709. So the the top portion which is row 107 108 109 represent residential and below is commercial impact and um this is the impact on the commercial properties. Any questions? questions. Um, thank you. Council I thought there was another um that split between the two or is that you have something that said 7030 with 1.5.2 or you mean the spot between town. I thought I saw it. Yeah, there's right there. In the bottom. At the bottom. Okay. Yes. And these numbers represents two. So for the town and BOE in a total it represents what was already cut, right? The budget that failed an additional cut with the new proposal. Gotcha. Right. my fault. Thank you.
057You're welcome. I think um we got a couple proposals up on the table. I guess I'd just like to hear counselor's thoughts on the proposals and any additional ideas that they might have. I'll write them down at a time. I don't know whether you would like to start. Um I would regardless of what budget scenario we use if we're going to going to use the 200,000 in unsigned fund balance. Um I would I would suggest that we go back to our original agreement that we refund the fish study and that we use it for the 140,000 for the board of education. Um, and then I would go the other $200,000 as suggested. Um, so that would be my proposal. That would be regardless of where which which scenario we end up um with. I am
058still looking at um I guess that's what I'm going to say right now and then I'm still looking at some other things that I'm calculating. So I'll start there. Can I just ask a clarifying question up on that? Sure. So we can avoid any Absolutely. Um, so are you so both these scenarios put $200,000 back for fund balance, are you suggesting that we instead of putting back at So instead of putting it back? Well, we were we were using 400 before, right? Yeah. We were using 400 before now we're only using 200. Yes. Right. So, agree. Right. The town manager said 200, not the 400 we were doing before. But if we're going to use that 200, right? Allocate the 60,000 for the fish study. Allocate the 140 for the the BOE um item that
059we had previously proposed. So it wouldn't bring down it's not being used. It's not being used to bring down the mill rate like the previous uh 200,000 that I proposed. It goes just back to the so it would be it wouldn't be a one point and in Brian's scenar Yeah. Okay. All right. Not even. Yeah. Because Yeah. Not even. Yeah. But I get I think I'm directionally I understand what you're talking about. Okay, Yolita, does that make sense to you? Yes, you absolutely correct that for the increase our spending. Okay, so we're not going to be focusing anymore 1.5 or 1.2% it's going to be additional whatever the calculation is going to be. So I just have to run the different you know that scenario to show what that impact is. Okay, thank you. Um,
060I guess I'll go just where my thoughts are at the table. So, originally I liked 1.5 idea because it seemed like it was it would go down and that would have a decent impact. But what kind of scared me looking at the spreadsheet is that the difference in the tax rates from what failed and what 1.5 would be are quite modest. The low end the increase would go would have been a $253 increase at a 2% at a 1.5 that's a $245 increase difference. At the high end, it's a $26 difference between what failed and what the 1.5 is. So, I feel we were in a very similar situation last year up on the as you're preparing for the third referendum where it failed by about 52% and then thought, oh, we can cut 60
061$70,000 and we'll pass and end up failing again. So, I I I am nervous about that. I think we got to make a bit more of a impact um this time. So, I'm I'm leaning more towards the 1.2 scenario. Um I do think it's good that we put fund balance back um questions on that area online to to answer them. Um that being said, you know, we'll never talk to to see if there's a compromise there. Um, but I do think if we're not really moving the the needle up on what the tax increase is going to be for our residents, I think we're going to be in the same spot that we were last time. Um, that's really the only true metric to really look at in a year like this when the mill
062rate fell, the taxes are up and the spending increase is small. So, you can't use those as guides anymore, you know. Um, so we got to look at this. So anyway, not a proposal to put out, but that's just kind of my thoughts up on between the two that were here. Just for clarification, how the fund the fund balance your goes up into [Music] your 60 additional expense to offset or to then be offset by this revenue. I'm going to let you answer that question since because you can't you can't reduce your expenses by the fund balance. We we this came out of an the original proposal that we had during our first discussion and it carried through to the second meeting that we had. Um so I'm going to because there was there was
063200,000 cyclone balance that was that was requested to be used toward the fish study and then toward the the school um expense. It was a I think it was a capital project. Um so that would so leolita to clarify right that would that would be added in but it would be considered an expense. Correct. Correct. You would add to expense 200 and you would add to revenue 200. Right. So it adds to right but adds to revenue and then it adds to expense. So the other way we were doing it would only have added to revenue when we were offsetting the tax rate, right? When we used the when we proposed to use the other 200,000. So that would only be added to revenue. So that I'm going to go on a little bit of
064a limb here, but if we're adding only to revenue, it would have the same effect as cutting another $200,000 because we're on a tax rate, right? Because you're you're saying I'm going to add that revenue, but we're not doing that anymore. So it's a moot point. Well, just to add it to revenue brings your mill rate down, right? But it doesn't adjust your expenses anyway. So, it sounds like you want to add another 200 of expense. Correct. That's going to be increase the spending. Use the 200,000 on assigned fund balance. I'm suggesting we use it in the way that we had originally intended to use. So, I think you can do that without increasing the without increasing the expense by just simply stating that um you cannot cut the F study. uh for the 140
065um in in the board of vets capital project. No, because that doesn't refund that doesn't use those. So in one in one case that that provides funding for that, right? That just says you can't you can't cut that. So you have to take you have to I'm going to use fish as an example because it's an easy number. You can't cut the 60 from the fish which means you have to cut the 60 from something else. Right. Right. This is we're going to fund the pitch study so you don't have to consition. But the 200 is already in the 200 fund bounce is already sitting in Brian's budget. He took out 200, but the 200 the other 200 still in his budget. But it's only added as a as a as a tax reduction. Correct,
066Yolita? Correct. The 200 that we added, it's just affects the tax reduction. It's not going into basically it's just it's like it's if somebody walked in and gave us a $200,000 check in extra income. Right. Right. That's what it's doing. Right. But so I guess I'm still confused. So we're not making a use of your $200,000. So that's fine. So, I mean, but it's not to me it's not necessarily increasing the expense because you're just simply stating that I want that 200,000 to use towards the pitch stud that basically is sitting in this one and a half% increase. I don't think you have to increase expenses. That's you let you answer. I think it will be easier to see it up on a chart um when she does prepare it. But maybe just another way
067to put it like let's just say sake of argument the 1.5 with the 200,000 use the way that Council D wants it. The the mill rate would have to go up. Is that accurate? Why? That because I think the if I understand correctly, the purpose is we cutting expenses, right? But we want to give back that 140 and 60,000, right? or we don't cut or we don't cut that much expenses then we don't have to give any money you know what 140 and 60 so let me ask you because I can't say for certain but I at least think that I was thinking like council she was last meeting about this it seems to me that we should be if hypothetically if we were to use the money from the unsigned fund balances our savings
068account fund and we wanted to apply it to $60,000 for pitch and $140,000 for the board of eds capital project whatever we should just be able to do that but I think that's that was not we were not able to do that right that's what came out of our last meeting and that's because you that would have put us above the 2% that we were locked into I don't know that I understand why that's the case Um yeah, I guess I don't understand why that's the case. Okay. So, I have to do a show to show it to you how it works because I think that's where we we when we assign something for specific purpose, we need to have a separate like a supplemental um uh I have to show you how it works
069because it's not just a it's not just whatever we're talking I think that's a confusing. If I show you how it works, it's going to be more visual. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. So, if you give me some time, I don't know if we can take another break. And well, do we want to keep talking while works? Do we want I just think here um did anybody else have a scenario that they wanted to get to YA before? I don't see see anything. So, we'll give her another opportunity to run numbers. Um just just to clarify, did you want to see the 200,000 add in for both the 1.5 and the 1.21? Yes, please. Okay. So, it's two scenarios. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Um Joe, you look Well, it just seems like
070we're increasing expenses. I didn't know if that was the intent. It seems like we just want to make sure that that 200 is used for something specific without necessarily increasing expenses. We can't use it according to what your leader told us last time because I we we had this extensive back and forth and it was me in your position right now saying I don't that's why this is the case until she put it on. But you can I mean as a as part of our uh as part of our motion we can just motion that that 200 is to use forens that's exactly what we it's it's kind of like you can either use it to increase expenses or you use it to cut the milk rate. Well it sits in record. There's no doubt
071about that. So we can't we can't take the 200,000 move it down into the P&L not down into the expense section of the P&L. It stays in revenue. So then it's just a question of yeah when you say then it's just a question well okay I want that money you know I want that money to be used for these things which should already be in my expense buckets. I think the probably the the more technically correct way to word it if I may would be I want to increase spending by 140,000 60,000 on the account side but I want to also use additional 200,000 from the fund balance fund balance so you separate it into two sides a revenue side and expense side once you start sayingbody you know and I that everybody does this
072you know, I want to use a 200 for X. Then it starts to now you're like inherently crossing the line between expense to be very explicit about this because we Yes. I still don't see the difference because you're saying they want to add they want to add another $200,000 expense, right? Yes. I think that's going to be paid for. Okay. But the signed fund balance is already sitting in the revenue section of this budget. It's not like we have to add it. It's already there. So the only thing you're stating is that we want to add another $200,000 to the expense. Doesn't make any sense. Yes. That that would be the logical way. So yeah, another easy way to say it, let's reduce the P&L by 200,000 and then that reduces our expense and then
073let's add back in the F study and the board of ed capital improvement project and we're right back to the one. I think we're going to take adisement on how on you shouldn't have to add something that's not right. The point at least in this scenario, right, is to fund these things and we're not funding them with taxpayer money, right? Like that's like we're not um but yeah, so I don't I don't Yeah. So yeah, I I am where you are except that you'll just that's not right. So I don't know why I think and she did right and and I think that the you were exactly right um chair that that the way that we word this is important to make the intention perfectly clear so that we don't have a redux of our
074previous scenario. So I think that's something Yeah. Yeah. I think it'll be more clear when it's on an Excel spreadsheet. I just Yeah. I don't expect to see the percent increase though. Percent increase for spending. Yeah. Don't think that should happen. I don't understand why that should happen because if you're saying we're going to add 200,000 and I'm saying fine, take 200,000 from somewhere else and we're back at our So that would be if you if you were using it for a a tax relief purpose, that's essentially what you would be doing because you' be I want to keep spending at 1.5, but I'm going to use $200,000 of fund balance or whatever. Um, which means I'm only raising 1.1% spending increase from property taxes. I'm using filling in the amounts balance. Does that make
075sense? No, because our fund balance is doing exactly that. It's reducing mill rate but not adjusting the amount. I think it'd be easier with the spreadsheet. It was It's consistent. You know, whether we use 200 or $400,000. The only thing that does is reduce the No, that's not true. Yeah, that's it's a revenue only adjustment. That's not what That's That's what I thought. That's not what the person with the advanced degree in finance or in helping us out says. So, we'll get So, we can Yes. So we need to look at that because the wording of this and the designation of this matters a lot right how we so yeah um I'll entertain a motion to recess until so so we're not wasting a lot of time is there any discuss we We have Barry
076on the call that we want to talk about fund balance or what impact that has on things especially going into next year if we should for that. What's that? I would like to be present for that. Yeah. Did you make a motion? I I didn't make a motion. Okay. Is there a second? I'll second. Any discussion? All in favor? I All right. I'm going to call the council meeting back to order. Um, I'll turn it over to Yita to walk us through what she prepared. Let me know when you can see my screen. Yeah. Yeah, you can see it. Little small though. So this on the screen you see town managers um proposed um scenario which is column N it's original proposed scenario column I K and L it splits uh $200,000 from an assigned
077fund balance use in a separate for specific use of uh 60k and 140k in expenditures. And what it does the budget the expenditures and revenues when we do that it brings um the overall spending to 1.19%. And then the column L it's adding back right to the total um increase of the budget is 1.5 and I think that's what um council Merly was asking for basically just re take 200 assigned to the specific purpose and do not increase the spending. thing. Is that correct? I think that's what the I think that's scenario that's the scenario that we talked about. Right. So, we're Yes. We as when you when you left when we were sitting here at the table, you asked if this is what we wanted to see because we already have the other scenario
078that you applied. Yes, adding additional 200k would increase spending and would change the mill rate and all that right different. So in this case um again um this the column I represents basically what town in BOE needs to come up as a cut and then 200k of an assigned fund balance will assign for that purpose to be total of the budget. It would not change the cuts, right? What I what we were presenting, it would be the same cuts for the town and BOE at the end of the day. Any questions? questions. Counselors a minute to digest it. Yeah, I think I understand what I think I see the difference here. I think that's where last time we didn't do this and just for the visual to understand how much each each side needs to
079cut and what is the end of result of the budget. So the spending increase for this scenario is still 1.5%. Correct. That's what we That's what I was asked to do. And the mill rate is 2719. That's the same as the county proposal. Correct. Because we reduced the revenue and we reduced expenditures. That will be allocation of fun. the reduction for Yes. So there's a difference 64,420 999 929 and 62929. So there would be no change to tax rate on this budget, it would be the same. It would be the same what we discussed earlier. Okay. The way that this is allocated here, this is you want to go on to the second one? Sure. And here is um Can you see? Should I enlarge it? So column T is the original proposal and we
080have column M QR column M. So I worked backwards, right, to reduce the other financial sources by $200,000 of an assigned fund balance and I reduced town operational budget and BOE budget and then added back for the total not to increase the spending by 1.21%. And this is rounding again. So again at the end of the day it would be the same reduction for the town and BOE that we discussed earlier that the scenario. So essentially you're just you're allocating fun balance to specific parts of the budget. Correct. Y I got it. Any questions for counselors? Um here. Go ahead, Council D. I What is the in line 108? 106 on the town manager's budget and 108 on the uh council geo budget. What you have a 0.901% you have a 1.19% in green box.
081Yes. So yep. That is sure. So on the town managers budget then we then I worked backwards right to reduce the revenue by 200k and reduce the expenditures. That's the overall budget increase compared to FY25 adopted budget. I thought that over So I thought the overall increase was 1.5. Correct. That's right there. That's the total, right? So, we have to add it back because you the request was to specifically assign $200,000 for 60 and 140. So, when we add it back, the overall then overall budget is 1.5 and I'm sorry, what was the 1.19? 1.19 is the overall budget when we reduce revenues and expenditures by $200,000. So, we work backwards. Okay. I understand what you're saying though. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. You're welcome. questions for counselors. I think we have a lot of
082scenarios to ponder. Um I think this time if there is a counselor would like to anybody like to make a motion um for one of these scenarios I think that would be appropriate um so that we can discuss it perhaps where majority of us can agree to I'll make a motion to to to increase the budget by the 1.2% taking into account yearly adjusted for the fund balance. Councelor Shay has made a motion to um adopt uh councelor B's scenario using a 1.21 approximately 1.21%. Um is there a second for that motion? I'll second. Okay. So that motion's been made and seconded. So now we'll go into discussion. Is there any discussion on that motion? I have a motion for the time. Um so with what we what we did here, right, which goes back
083to our original request as far as how to divide up this 200,000 is that is is that 60,000 that we're designating for that use. Is that encumbering you in a way? given is that encumbering you in a way that you would rather not be encumbered? I have no preference at this point. You know, if that I will spend that 60,000 on on uh public safety, be the ad that you're asking. That's what I'm asking. Yes. Um I need to amend because we have to determine an allocation that council sim I I think you can probably I think the way it can work you can um then do your motion but then I think council needs to agree with the amendment to that motion. Yeah. Maybe Maybe this maybe before I meant we should we have
084a discussion about what we consider a reasonable allocation. The last we did 7:30 we want to stick with that or you want to modify that in any way. Can I just make clear about we're talking about the spreadsheet that has it's council Joe and then it's use of fund balance and so like the for example line 108 is a n1%. Yes. Okay. Thank you. I mean I can jump in. I mean I think 7030 well not perfectly proportionate amount that we generally been able to agree to that's reasonably fair. Can some um I don't know if it's you. So what would the the um bottom line cuts be for the town or cuts be for the town and the border even though I understand that it's still Can I introduce? Yes. So what I would
085like to do I would like I said there is a rounding right $9,000. So I want to really specify the dollar amount redo it like you know and say this is exactly the dollar amount for bo exactly the dollar amount for town so we all on the same page. So I don't know at what point I can do that. Well this was I think we stuck with a pretty round number. It was like a $500,000 reduction from from the failed referendum. Correct. Correct. If we just do a simple 7030 split, we're reducing the for bed by 70% of 500 and the town council other the town by 30% of 500,000. So that gives it a split and then we can trip up the 900,00 9,000 time after that because I believe we still need to
086u make a motion or vote on the specific dollar amount and increase and the miller rate and you know the question. So we need to specific those as well. Yeah, I would suggest that we use this discussion time to come up with those precise amounts and then your motion accordingly with specific dollar amounts provided. Council check agrees and then that way there's no ambiguity as to what the motion actually is. Yeah. Uh yolk, can you confirm that 500,000 is a um full reduction? That's correct number. Yeah, let me do the uh let me rerun that scenario for exactly numbers and I'll get back to you. [Music] the Holy Spirit. [Music] We just I'm done. Yeah. Okay. So, I'm ready. Um Yeah. So my question, do we need the reduction dollar amount from um the FY
087the budget that fail additional or total? What the numbers do we need for the board of education in town? We just want the difference, right? We don't want Yeah, let's talk. I think we've been talking in terms of difference from the pre failed referendum. So let's let's just use those numbers. So the total um 1.2% 2% increase is the total uh budget. It's 64,429 931 which is brings us for additional reduction on the town side of 15252,797 and on the BOE side $356,530. What was the last three digits? 53 530. Thank you. Total of $59,327. What's 527? 509327. And then can you please also just um reiterate the the total dollar increase and then the municipal increase and the BOE increase. Sure. So the town increase from FY25 adopted budget is $91,759. and board of
088education is $55,43. And then so the total would be the combination of two and there there's additional capital improvement fund that it's also an increase of $166,829 that have not changed. Okay. What was the town increase again? The town increased $91,759. So the total increase $763,991. Yes. 7539 763 76 Can you I'm sorry. Can you just clarify the the total expenditures again? The total expenditures. No, 64 million. Yep. 64,429,931. Okay. Thank you. It's 1.2% increase. Council shade, did you want to try to amend your motion specifically? So, Can we just amend it to say amended to say that the redu the town reductions of 152797 order there is 356530 from previous budget I don't think previous budget or do I have to say increase make sure that it's all crystal clear. Um Lisa, how are
089we capturing the motion right now? We just had amend the motion to the town reduction of that amount and be a read from the previous failed budget and that's going to ask you the question. I'm thinking open input here, but maybe you write this down and so it's clear. We can motion to something that's a written statement that addresses every part of this. I can help. Sure. Yes. Yeah. So, I've been um Yeah. Yeah. Do we have to cancel the original motion? Just say I'd like to amend amending. I'd like to clarify and amend my original motion and read that out and then ask for you to check agree. Uh like to amend my original motion to include the following motion. adopt councelor BB's amended version of councelor Sha's proposal specifically a $763,91 total spending
090increase which is a $59327 reduction from the most recent budget proposal that failed referendum provided that $152,797 is reduced in the town from the failed budget referendum and $356,530 is reduced from board of education failed budget referendum and the fund balance is applied as outlined in column Q of the worksheet column is I was want to add those I was trying to see if there's a name for the spreadsheet but they all look like they're kind of name I don't know if there is so so can I interject for a moment okay so the The reductions town and BOE we talking after adding those 60 and 140. Say that again. Did I confuse everyone now? So the reduction that is so the total reduction rate to reach 1.2%. But in order to get to talk
091about that 200 and assigned fund balance, right, the town the town and BOE need to reduce 60 and 140k additional. So because if we just say that reduction then plus 200 that sounds like we adding on the top. Yeah, I think Joe, you understand what I'm trying that was the confusion with the prior with the prior motions with the that I don't know how we want to clarify this. That's not additional 200. This is that maybe might be easier do the increase. I can just do increase of 9179 to the town 2% increase in prior year's budget that simple have to specify what share goes to BOE council increase right correct that would be and then some goes to C6 [Music] Yes. This can be included in minutes or something to make it clear. This
092is this is the read off of the expenditure number. and the point of is this so before before we get into terms of details this when does this get when does this get finalized tonight but it's not the it's the second it's the second part of the whole thing so really the only thing I have to do is make a motion to uh adopt a budget increase of 1.2% which equals 752 with 9179 yeah I think sorry I think we do need to be a little bit more specific because that motion doesn't tell anything about how those monies to be allocated. This motion. Yeah, that's a resolution question. Yeah. All right. That's what I can say that the increase the 1.2% increase is allocated as follows. So the town gets this and for a total
093you know total expense of 64 and then pass the resolution after that seem fair. Yeah, maybe just a note with my motion just motion rather than try to motion with the motion. Yep. Yeah. Start from scratch. Okay. So, you withdrawing your motion? I'm withdraw my motion. Okay. Yes. that could maybe just and then then we'll do the resolution that we focus in right resolution if this even pass. Okay. I just Okay. So, I'm going to make a new motion unless unless we have a motion for me. I make a new motion to to for a 1% 1.2% 2% increase adopting councelor BB's amended version of councelor Shay's proposal which calls for a increase to the town of 91759 increase to the board of education of 50543 an increase to the capital count of 166829 for
094a total increase of 7639 9991 for a total budget of 429. Is there a second to that motion? I'll second motion. Thank the motion made and seconded. Is there any discussion on that motion? Yeah. Yes. Um, so just make sure my math is right here. So we're talking.1 of a mill and the difference between the 1.5% and 1.2%. And that isn't a lot when it comes to the effect on the average house assessment, but it reflects 181,671. And if we're splitting 7030, then income to the municipal side and income to the VA side. So, it's something that is tangible. It's really, really tangible. Um, a really tangible effect on those two bodies for a house that that is appraised out of say 428,000 and is assessed at 300,000. The difference in taxes is $30 a
095year. A year to go from that 27.19 to 27.09 and that's at a I tried to pick up again sort of a median range there. Um, some of us are seeing much just so everybody I'm gonna repeat this when I first got the when we were first looking at at what the 3% and all that stuff I was talking um 19% increase for my house. So I am one of the people who is seeing one of the largest and I and I spreadsheetedund and some houses and I was in the top 1%. So I I get it. I have a lot of skin in the game. Um that said, and I want you know that this is affecting me personally, but what we're doing is for this it's 30 bucks and I think we can
096do we return something to both and municipal side. Um, anybody else just and the the optics that we see is that if you look at Brian's budget compared to the failed budget, the taxpayer is going to see that you did value or I picked an appraised value or sorry success value 300 which back which back calculates to 428. Oh okay. So I was looking at the worksheet that that uh right which back. So I just wanted to in real dollars not percentages but in real dollars but when they look at what the impact of of manager's budget is. So, so let's just say the middle of the road here on the market value. They're just going to see a reduction of $16, which to them if all you did was reduce your revised budget just
097reduced my taxes by allows 16 bucks. They're going to want to see something more substantial than that. But we're only talking $30. So, we're still voting on that and we're we're we're talking about like a like a feeling rather than what we could do what what Brian could do with 54 grand and what the B could do with 127. But my but the difference between Brian's and my budget so that same house they're seeing a they're seeing a reduction of 16 my budget is a reduction of 56. So in their mind that's that's a more significant adjustment that They're expecting to see that that the town is going to reduce the budget. We you're still talking. Okay. So, you're you picked a different median number. You're picking $40. I'm picking $30. Um I'm picking Are
098you talking percentages or you talking actual dollars? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, if they see that I'm I'm I'm comparing the I'm comparing the 27.19 mil rate to the 27. Yeah, that's what I'm doing, too. Yeah. But the 27 again 2719 shows very little reduction compared to the budget referendum. So, yeah, the voters go to look at this and see all you did was reduce my tax. So I think that's where it is incumbent upon us to explain to the voters why that there's really very very very in a medium situation. That's where that's where framing matters. That's where context matters to say we can get this much. Yes, it's $30 a year more for like an average person. For somebody with an big expensive house, it'd be more than that. for some of us
099whose property values increase way of a lot that you know I understand I'm taking an average but I think that context really matters right the framing of that matters the we're doing this and I and I understand that it might feel good to look at this and say well 1.2% 2%. But in reality, what would if we can restore this, it's like it's like for an an assessed value of $300,000, it's $30 a year. And and I can we I mean, I'm I'm I don't need to ex extrapolate on what I why I think that's really important right this minute, but um the other counselors have something that you want to say. Um, but I think that framing, that context is important. I mean, I think that All right. So, I guess I'm going to
100go do this. So, I think that we I would love for us to if we if we talk about this as a as a citizen, I would love to have I guess a preliminary I we do this we do this and it never seems to work because people never seem to have show to have these conversations, but like what do people want the community to look like, right? What do they want the education system to look like? What what is what is the desired outcome here? Because if inflation continues to be the average of like the two and a half to 3% a year, which is kind of what it is, and we keep funding things at 1.2% a year, we are not going to have a viable. We are going to just wholesale shut
101things shut certain things down. So what are what do we really want to shut down? Like we need to have that conversation. If if we're going to heal if, as you said, people are not if they this is what they want. What are we going to shut down and what are we going to live in permanently? Permanently. Um and I and I want to say here like we were talking about history, right? My family came here as poor German farmers in the 1800s because they didn't want to live under a can and they had to get a release from the candy to come here. And the first thing that they did as people that worked with their bare hands was provide for themselves and build a school because where they came from education was for
102the wealthy and the elite and here and I had my grand my father's parents had four boys in the middle of the depression. I'm reaching on, you know, fuel reseration, food reseration, all kinds of stuff was rationed and and they never earned the above. They were they were basically working class people. They were they they did this so that their own kids could become middle class because that education is cornerstone of the democratic society. gives public education gives people the ability to move and we certainly have to improve upon this into into and stay in the middle into the middle class and I'm thinking for 30 bucks a year it's worth it and I think that framing is really important. Yeah, I'll just say you know budget gets out of council, obviously I'll work to
103continue to try to get it to pass. I think they did last time and try to definitely frame it up in that way. Um, I'm just looking back to history. You know, I keep going back to the referendum we had failed 140 votes or so last time and make that large of a reduction and we were back here again. Um, I I think, you know, if you look at the the budget that failed versus what 1.2 would give you, you know, you're you're close to $100 a month higher income. They're probably most standing get down to the low on a 4% increase. Um, so I think, you know, we are in a tough spot because we're trying to figure out what people will want. We don't know exactly what we want, but I think I
104think details like that do matter. um to try to get something something through. Um but very very spot. This isn't the budget I would have put out if we did not have an evaluation, but that's kind of where we are right now. But yeah, I'll just say um I I can't support this much additional cut to the board of ed and really quite frankly the town. Um I still think that use of our unsigned fund balance um is not it's not being utilized in the way that it should be to actually um help meate some of these cuts. So, um I just think that it would do uh too much harm and and we have such a large rainy day fund that we could maybe use more strategically. So, I'm agree with council man. I
105think that the impact it has on both the town and the board of ed is significant compared to the relief that we're giving um people in the town. I think if we did a better job educating how little this will have an effect on on the overall dollar amount that's coming out of their pocket compared to what is going to happen to on both the town side and the board of ed side. It's when you look at the numbers side by side, you see how how little this is going to give for people on relief and and and that just boils down to the fact that this reevaluation is really making an impact. However, we can't just continue cutting hundreds of thousands of dollars from the board of ed and from the town just because
106this is what we think they want. I mean, it really is not going to make much of an impact to their wallet, but it's going to make hell of an impact to, you know, the people that work here in town. And you know, right now there isn't any concrete um scenario as far as what it's going to do on the town side and what it's going to do on the board of ed side, but um got to have some impact and if not losing people, it's going to make people's jobs more difficult because something's going to be cut. So at some point, it's got to be more about education and being all on the same page than just continue to to bleed the town dry for a few dollars in someone's pocket. other comments upon
107this proposal comment um what you guys are all saying 100% but I feel like you know between Jacob's letter and my letter and Democrats put it out you know some people might like not like it's the truth of the matter what they both were um and I don't know maybe is number of thing. I don't I have no idea. I have I don't I don't even know what the answer is because you know you're talking what the 1.5% merely versus the 1.2. Yeah. The 1.5 versus the 1.2 is a is a change in is a tenth of a mill rate change. Yeah. Joe, what do you think? And and the average and the average the the so so framing this is like okay the difference between that is is it's it's the difference between keeping
108certain department open and closing them entirely. Right. So this doesn't sound like it's it's not a lot. It's not a It's not a big thing. And it's not if you're looking at like whether we're taking and I whether we're taking I'm sorry I lost the correct spreadsheet. Whether we're taking what I used and I used 300 because it was an easy thing for me to multiply frankly and it it bumps up to 428. So it's a reasonable middle of the road talent house based on on what we saw. Um, and if the impact of that is, you know, $30 a year, I think it's important to say this has this could have a a fairly significant impact in trying to keep keep certain services over on this side for 30 bucks a year on this
109side for that tenth of a that's what I'm trying to say and that's why I think that framing matters. Yeah. No, I understand. I feel like that's was a lot of opposing truth and it wasn't lies and we're making up and, you know, trying to scare tactic to everybody. It's it's the truth. Nobody's fault. We're all in it together. And I I don't I really feel like we need Joe's vote to make this pass. Say it. So, Joe, I mean, what do you think? It's just a $22 difference. Just the $22 difference because that could be a lot. Yeah. Now, I I understand the mindset that, you know, everybody can afford another $22. But the mindset of the people in this town is how much more you going to keep nickeling and dimeing me to
110the debt when I'm getting hit with a huge tax increase and you still can't even give me a $30 because you think it's more important to you than it is to me. That's the mindset you're dealing with. You're not dealing with the you can afford more money, you can pay us more money. They're fed up with it. So, I don't think a 1.5 is going to pass. I'm I'm concerned. You heard your two referendums ago saying I think you need one. But, so I think 1.2 is going to be a struggle because people are just dying. Got to listen to you guys aren't. I don't think that's I don't think that's true. I'm saying we are listening. are doing a lot of being very creative, taking a lot of risks on this budget and we
111all are actually really working hard together. No, I agree. Nobody wins in this situation. I I give you that. I'm not happy about it. Nobody's happy about it. Nobody wins. But, um, you know, the con discussion is here is, you know, how much do we have to cut? How much do we have to cut? How much do we have to cut without thinking how much everyone in this town has to cut out of their own lives? We all hit hard. This is a tough tough year and you go from 2% to 1.5 a lot of people out there are still pissed at you back. I'll just add I mean I think this broader picture right you know it's not just a tax increase it's you know had bad inflation over the past several years. Even
112though it's slowed down a little bit, it's not like prices are going to go down. Um, you know, we've had a huge hype in utility bills. Um, you said to decrease the June by 13%. That's was good news. I just read that and um, you know, potential tariff trade war, you know, raising prices for common goods. Now, the economy doesn't look at as good as it could be. people are bringing all this stuff up into the map when they when they look at the So I would I would that's why planning matters that's why context matters right so so I understand that's that's in the background right but that's in the background intentionally the tariff stuff cutting education you know we have a we have a we have a we have a native daughter who
113is saying I'm going to cut education which means special education which means there's already towns in the nation that are basically saying cutting our special education program, right? Like we're going to just abandon that. That's intentional. Cutting food aid for people for seniors, that's intentional. But, you know, creating adding taxes to people in the form of tariffs, that's intentional. That creates a manufactured crisis so that people feel even more insecure. So, they come back to their communities. and we sit here squabbling with each other over $30 so we can blame each other and we can have people say kids are spoiled, seniors, you know, seniors need to, you know, do whatever they need to do. And we So there's a again a multi-year effort to try to push push back and eliminate some of this
114because we shouldn't be living on a in a manufactured crisis. a manufactured financial crisis that is making this all worse can't be the backstory for how we decide to operate our community because it will never end and we will cannibalize ourselves to the point of where we won't be functioning and that's the point. So I need I want us as a community to look at each other and reject that and say not we're nickel and dimming you a one and a half% increase like this doesn't even cover the cost of insurance and Etna's going to get what is going to get Exxon's going to get what Exxon's going to get we all know this right we know this and cost of living increases you know 2% a year 3% a year that's That's what happens.
115That's not us nickel and dime people. That is how our capitalistic economy works, right? You get somebody that doesn't see that increase every year and Wall Street punishes them. And then we come back to our community and say we can't that that's not acceptable here. So we just say, "Okay, we're going to we're gonna we'll fund it at 1.2 or 1.5 or whatever, but we're still not covering even expenses." And if you did that in your home budget, like you just start selling stuff off. And if you did it over 10 or years, now you are where we are. So I'm I'm my point is I understand how much people are hurting because my potential tax increase took my breath away, right? Um, and but when I when I looked at this and I I
116wish we could have deferred it. We can or we didn't. But at at some point I I guess for my own purposes, it gets to a point where just for for what I'm like it My conscience will will only let me go so far. Can I make a motion to call the question? So, we're on a 1.2%. Can we just unless anybody has anything else to say? Yeah, motion. I think we're good. We can do a motion. Uh, I'll do roll call motion roll call votes for all votes. Um, councelor Butler, nay. Councelor Geek, hi. Uh, council man, nay. Councelor Shay, hi. Councelor B, no. Sorry, can't answer. I'm an I. That's motion is a tie three to three. So, it fails. Um, so I will entertain other motions for proposals. Joe, seriously, what are
117you willing to work with us like? It's like I get it. We're all hurting. I live in a 12,200 square foot house. I just don't understand it. It's like you're holding us hostage like Yes, you are. You used to listen to We are It's my turn to It's my turn to talk. I'm sorry. I'm not mad at you because you are a finance person. I respect you. It's just I feel like we're trying to work together and you just sitting over here and you won't even like budge a little. Like Marily brings up a good point, but you wouldn't even think about, okay, maybe 1.3 or 1.4. You know what I mean? Like there's got to be some room that you're willing or maybe you're okay with things closing. I I have no idea. And
118I don't mean to be rude and people listening, but I really feel like you don't do what you want, Joe. It's going to fail. No, it's true. You send out texts like Jacob, Alex, and I, all of us work so hard together and then you guys do this. You don't even warn us, you're doing it. So, I think, you know, you don't think you have an influence. There is an influence. There is some sort of influence there. If there was no influence, it wouldn't be done, right? Nobody would spend the money on making a professional ad if there wasn't influence. Like, let's be realistic, right? It's if there was no influence, there would be no point G. That's why it's done. And we all we all know that that's how political advertising works. It is
119what it is. That's that it is what it is. That's that's why it's done. You guys are giving me way too much credit for how this budget goes. Way too long. Sorry. That's that's a little bit disingenuous. Look at look you guys don't look at the damn history of how this town votes. How do they vote? Do they vote 4%. Do they vote 3%. They don't do it and you guys ignore it. We're not even in that realm anymore. That there's value. What? Or do we? They've been hearing its value for years and years and years. You guys are telling nothing new. Nothing. This is the same year after year. joke. Good joke. If if that's true, then won't it just fail without you texting everybody? Right. Like I'm not saying that when I was
120like pushing for a three or two% that I was like certain that it would pass. I thought that it was in the best interest. So I worked with Jacob and I worked with Colleen and I worked with Alex and I worked with Jen Marley to try to to try to put why it should pass, right? But you're certain that it's going to fail unless so what if that's true then why do you need to promote another you guys are all back on social media you guys all see it when you guys put out your test how many how many positive comments did you get about your test I'm sorry not the um positive comments afraid to comment right no no no trust me it's the same people I can I could name them I can
121name them on both hands same people from your side that comment over and over and over and over again. It's it's the same people who have the same narrative over and over and over and over again. It's not different people. We're not I mean like think of how many thousands of people are in this town. You get the same naysayers with the same message over and over and over and over again. And let's see. I think some of them No, we got a couple of them online right now. You guys do it for a reason. As Maril Lee pointed out, there is no purpose in putting out a vote no and paying money because the TRTC paid money. This Connecticut GOP paid money for these text messages. Unless you want that result, unless you want
122to get people and you know you're going to get more people to vote no by doing that. So again, and this is the second meaning I'll say that you're going to smoke up people's high knees by trying to say, "Oh, well, you're giving me too much power." No, Joe. This is how politics work. We're all politicians. We're all partisan. But a vast majority of us are trying to make an effort to get on the same page to try to educate the public to try to get them to understand why we've made the decisions that we've made. But you seem to be the only person who is going out there promoting a no vote and doing actually hardly anything on the record to try to come to a consensus. You just sit here silently and then
123you go out on social media and you do your thing. So time and time again we try and this year is a different year than last year and it's a different year than any other year but this year was the first time I've seen in a long time where the vast majority of us are trying to work together and trying to come to an agreement together but you seem to be the only person just holding out. A long time we've been doing this for a year and a half and the town of Talon's been around for quite some time. I'm not saying us in general. It's been a long time since I've seen this many people on the town council attempting to work together and it's a great thing, but you're the only one holding
124out. I guess it the council prior to last year's disastrous council. I think the council worked together pretty well from the history that I've seen. When I was on council, it worked together very well. We never had we never had anything like But philosophically, I don't agree with you. 100% I don't agree with you. I don't believe you have a huge tax increase on individuals in this town and then try to layer on more taxes. And again, our history shows how this town goes. They don't vote for what you guys want. They just don't. So get over it and pass something legitimate. Okay. So you have a majority on this council and you have a majority on the board of ed. Do it. majority on the board. Oh, you mean Republicans. That's like So do
125it. Like do it. So pass the budget. Why? Like you're right. We can't pass the budget. We have majority. I guess for Republicans. We're missing we're missing someone. Yeah. Well, that's not me, right? So you have the majority. You're right. You're right. We don't have So we had a motion that failed. We have several other scenarios here. Does anybody want to make a motion for another scenario? We are six in the room. Whatever we come up with will have to be some sort of compromise and we do need to. So make a motion. I'm at my high end. So you guys can decide what you want. I want to be a one. So, so what do we what do you want for services for that 1%? No, no, no. You're a finance guy. When you
126go before your company, we're the company, the town is the company, and you're proposing a budget. You know that you would have to say this is what I want for the for this expenditure, right? So, what do you want for the 1%? So, yeah, I want I want to circle back to that comment that you had before because I've been in the corporate world for 35 years. I've been through multiple downsizes, several several over my career with different companies. I've never heard the executive branch of the company call in all the managers and say, "What do you guys think you might be able to cut, you know, so we can reduce our costs?" Never happens. The executive branch puts down a general dictation that says, "I need a 10% across the board cut. I don't
127care how you do it, but our numbers got to drop by 10%." Because if you ask every manager to come in and say, "What do you think you might cut?" Every manager is going to say, "Can't cut anything." I like I am like maxed out. So, we got to go to another department. Every department manager is going to say that. So, executives and I've been I've been in the business world also and I've also been downsized. In fact, I've lost my job in the other manufactured 2008 bubble that we had, which was, you know, I laid an entire construction company off. Um, and watch guys beg me for their jobs, which was horrible. And then was out of work myself. So, right, living on nothing. So, with a kid in college and one on the
128way. So, I get it. What I meant by that was not, hey guys, what do you think you can cut? Give me something. But it was like if you if you were bringing something here, if this is what you're proposing, um what are the impacts? What will the impacts be when we make these cuts, right? What will the impacts to operations be? What will the impacts to customers be? What will the the impacts to the employees be? they at least know that even if they may not discuss it with the, you know, corporate world, may not discuss it with the employees or the public or whatever. And certainly when we're talking about people in the town, our citizens, we owe them that analysis because when we're saying we're going to give you, we're going to
129do 1%, but here's what it will mean for you. You won't have the senior center will close, but why were I might close half the time. See, that's the that's the scare tactics that the Democrats sent out for the for what services can do that. What services can you maintain? Brian can't even tell you that tonight. You want me to tell you that? How can I tell you that? And the biggest cuts are coming from the board of ed, not from what type of education system can you maintain when we're not even covering the cost of insurance and we're we're looking at, you know, the the to to to stay even. We were looking at at whatever I and I'm we were looking at $1.3 million, right? Which wasn't even really keeping him even, but
130okay, we decreased from there. So at 1% we are closing certain programs. What do we what can we live without? What can we live without? Not my call to make boards call me. You want me to tell the board about what to do? I want to understand what you think we are giving the town for this because we're not saying that we're not going to have we're not saying that like tomorrow everything will completely close. But we but in this scenario, Brian has told us before he's got no fat left in his budget. He's going to eliminate things. What what do people want eliminated? What do you want eliminated? Because we know that if we're not staying even with inflation, we're eliminating things. We're elim we're we're not we're we're cannibalizing our body, right? We're
131cutting off a piece of our body. So what part I'm giving you the executive answer. I want my managers to tell me what they can afford to cut and they because they're going to have to cut. So they make the decision, not their executive does. And then your citizens out there are saying, "Well, what does that mean for me? Does that mean that I'll have a senior center? Does it mean I'll have a rec center? Does it mean I'll have the parks won't be open? What does it mean? Time won't tell. They know. They real I think most people realize that there's going to have to be cuts. Just like in their lives, they've had to make cuts. They expect the government to have to make cuts. They understand that that could potentially reduce services.
132They understand that that maybe we're not going to have a a curriculum director in our board of ed. I don't know. I mean, what's the what's the easiest thing that the board of ed can cut? That's the least harmful thing. And that's what you got. That's that's the way that's the way businesses work. That's the way this town has to work. That's the way people have to live. If people have to make cuts, government's got to make cuts, too. It's not a one-way street. I'm not your It's definitely not a oneway street. Um, and since we're talking not national and local, we're just talking local. Um, because I think nationally there's a whole different scenario going on. But I think it's very important so that people when we when we toss around numbers like that
133and we toss around like I'm an executive telling my people to do this that the citizens understand what it is that's happening and and when when things are framed as this isn't worth it right it's not worth it somebody you know we we are I've heard curriculum director despair a a lot as if it's unnecessary. Why is it unnecessary? Why? They have curriculum directors in private schools. Do they not need them in public schools? My question, but you're you're saying that we can cut it. That's an easy cut. That was pure. Okay. I said, do you want me to tell him to cut a turf director because it's not my responsibility to do that? I don't have the education to do that. We don't have the authority to tell the board of ed to cut
134things. Right. Exactly. Right. No, I'm I'm but I'm under understanding that this is this is something we I know we don't have the authority to tell the board of ed, but but the board of ed has discussed this on many occasions. What's on the chopping block at what point? So, most recently they talked about what the reductions could be for the 1.9% budget. Some of the things that they discuss cutting are school resource officers, a teacher at Birch Grove, the world language program, I believe it's the French program at the high school and the middle school, an additional teacher from the high school as well as a full-time nurse. They're going to be reducing medical supplies. They're going to be reducing the time of school athletics program, freshman athletics, students clubs and activities, a summer
135summer custodian and maintenance worker, as well as language arts materials and textbooks. This was all discussed at this previous meeting. This was at a 1.9% budget. Now, we're discussing well the 1.2 two failed, but we're discussing even a 1.5 is going to be a further cut as a as so they're going to go back and they're going to discuss it again. They're going to discuss the things that are going to be reduced. But these are things that people have to take into consideration. Is it worth the I don't know what were you saying under $40 a year? In my scenario, it was 30, but that's the number I chose because it was easy for me to multiply through that. Sure. Sure. You know, is it worth doing that to the schools? And I think the
136vast majority of the people in town are not sitting here with a microscope looking at the budget process and what's going on, right? They go on social media, they listen to what's going on, they may may read a post, they may read a a message somebody's making, you know, and there's there's definitely people on the council and there's definitely people who are in state government who are going to put out a message and if we aren't helping people understand the impact and what's going on then it's very easy to get people to vote no it's extremely easy it's much easier than to get people to vote yes so you know we're either all together globally trying to educate the town or there's going to be a group of us who are going to go out
137and do another vote no campaign. It's going to be easy to get people to vote no. It's easy once you put that doubt in someone's mind, they're voting no, but it's got a significant impact. And so, as the board of ed does, the town's going to do on their side, too. You know, we discussed previously that reducing state troopers, the resident state troopers, it doesn't actually lose a person. You don't get people, you know, fired as a result. So maybe we lose our our resident state trooper program. Maybe we lose a trooper, maybe lose two, maybe lose three. But that if I was the town manager, might be one area I'd be looking at because you're not actually letting someone go. They go back to troop C, which is still located here in Taland. Um,
138you know, either way, it's going to have huge impacts. you know, so you're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars and we said this before for a measily your scenario was $40 a year to save somebody. I mean, sometimes you got to think, you know, are the services provided outweighing the the dollar amount that's coming out of your pocket. You know, we're not going to get people down to where they were last year. It's not going to happen. And as the town manager stated previously, if we were to bring people down to where they were last year for their taxes, at some point you're going to have to stop reducing because there's a constitution that says we have to get a free public education. At some point there's a state law that's going to say
139we can't reduce the board of ed further. So everything's going to come from the town side. And that's where you get into closing the senior center, losing the trash program, losing wreck department. It's just the facts of life, you know. So that's where the education part comes into because people are going to expect that that you're going to be able to get them close to where they were last year and it's just not going to happen. Let me just put like a finer point on sort of things that have been said and I don't anticipate it will persuade you councelor Shay but I agree right it's a two-way street and um we have to be mindful of the tax impact residents um and and you may not think that we have gone far enough right
140but at least I think we need to be mindful that like we to get to this point like we have been cutting right and then you may not have agreed with where we started whatever Right. But there are already cuts. So it's not as though like we're starting from here saying give give us all of this money and we're not hurting like the town's been cutting things. Like we are already doing that, right? So all I'm saying is like when we're talking when we're having these conversations, right? It's not as though we haven't already been doing that, right? Like there are already cuts that led us to today and then you know whatever happens tonight there will be further, right? So it's not like we are just saying sorry you have to have a massive
141tax increase right that's all I'm saying it's like I think you need I think we need to keep that in mind is there a motion for another proposal All right. Um, I'll make a motion because clearly I will not need a lot of help because I'm not any errors. No one's I would like to propose me 1.5 as she's put forward. I don't know if I have to run down all these numbers, but part of that is $140,000. Back to board of education budget, $60,000. Town operating budget for the pitch study. Um I don't know how much more information I need to put in that number since we're going to be putting the numbers at the end. What do I have to include? Yeah. So again, I think we need to be specific. Yeah. So,
142we should probably talk like um console drone hit just say the increases and I'm happy to go back to my desk and give No, these are the increases right here, right? Sure. I think that's Yeah. You want to just double check them for her? Yeah. Can we see it? You don't have the time. No. So I have to Okay. You should have Yeah. Let me Let me get to my desk. Do I have copy of that thing? Yes, you you might have mine is what I wrote out the motion for. So [Music] think it doesn't change. [Music] Oh yeah, that's But again, this is not additional. This is just part of it. Just part of it. Yes. So, okay. Okay. So, thank you Letta. As you can see, we want to make sure we have
143every detail correct on this one. So, it has taken us a little longer. So, again, um tell me Andrea Merly BBs. um propose with the um with the total revenues of 64,620,929 for an increase of $954,000 989. Um, and then there's 140 board of education, $60,000 to the town, but that's not additional. That's just part of the numbers. Yoletta, we need to clarify. Yes, part of numbers. But I think we should do how do [Music] Yeah, it's going to be again. Can you Um, all I did was Yeah, we see that so we can replicate that format and maybe you can help just fill out the numbers properly. Yeah. Oh, you want Exactly. That's how operating budget and can I just if it if it makes it more straightforward, right? like um as you're doing
144this, I'm totally willing to say we have two $200,000 unsigned fund balance and not have to divide it that way if it makes it easier, right? Is this logical with the spreadsheet or whatever? if it if it if it makes it easier and me. Marilyn, does this further reduce the board of ed budget like more than what? That wasn't the intent. There you go. But I think that's the effect. I'm not sure. I don't think so. Tell me how that works. I can't tell you how that works because I mean someone's gonna have to explain to me why we're even using the other side unbalanced. It doesn't it doesn't make a difference. Do you agree? Yeah. Yeah, that's correct. So, what that's what I was trying to say that from last time when the motion
145was made, it sounded like it was additional 200. It was that and that increased the Yeah, it changes the So, I'm just so Yes. So I so agreed on the same page and so my point is what we're doing here doing is actually reducing the quarterback budget further. Yeah. The current the way the the way we are currently proposing to use the sign fund balance it doesn't make any difference and it doesn't add to what budget. So the only way to do that is to say, you know, say say you start with the town manager's 1.5 and then you say, I want to give $140,000, which then means the spending increase isn't 1.5, it's like 1.7 or whatever, right? Right. Right. 1. Yeah. I'm just So if we So if we resend that, right, if
146we resend that requirement, then we stay status quo where we are, then do we not use any unassigned fund balance? Well, I think I mean in my opinion and I don't support this, but in my opinion, if we are going to go with like the 1.5% management put out, I don't know why we would use any other fun or why we would use the 200,000. I don't know why because to to reduce the rate. Okay. So, you're still applying the 200 You're still applying 200,000 to reduce the mill rate because if we did Okay, so you don't that's the intent. I've got the intent and that's that's intended. That's fine. essentially think that council be motion is essentially the same as what was proposed by yeah and I just want to make sure that and
147that's fine I'm just wanting to make I don't want us in this position right when you leave the room it's not it's not adding anything back that's all I want to be clear and that's I'm just making it clear and is it and it is so it is easier to not dedicate that allocation it' be easier to then Then then don't do that. Just put it on wherever whatever Brian proposed. Say I move to adopt the town. That that's it. That would be it. Is that mean I got all the way back to this? Okay. Does that mean that the wording is essentially the same as what we got on our agendas? Yeah, it would just say just a number. I'm sorry, muddy the water with that. Do you Well, if we just do the
148town manager's 1.5 budget, do we have to go through every number? I would just say budget and you you can say the increase on each side town to be clear and then we can do the math calculate how much to reduce right now. Thank you for clarifying that. Yeah. How about you want to just make sure this is the time it just is 27.9. Yeah, it was easier just to say that's an increase spending increase of 1.5%. Nobody seconded any of those motions. So, I'm just I would like to put a motion for the town manager 1.5 um following numbers. The town operating budget $149,57. Order of education budget is $639,13. Capital improvement fund is $166,829 for a total increase of $954,989 with a mill uh rate of 27.9 with a um I'm sorry 27.19
14927.19. Thank you, Joe. for year 2025 adopted budget. Do that right. Could you I hate to make you do this, please read it one more time really loud. Okay. So again, town manager, I would like to propose or put a motion forward for the town manager budget of 1.5 for the following amounts. Town operating budget 149,57. Board of Education budget 639,13 capital improvement fund 166,829 for a total increase of 954,989 for for a mill excuse me 27.19 fiscal uh year town budget of 20 or I'm sorry fiscal year 2025 adopted budget Why am I missing? I don't understand. So, the increase of 1.5% from the FY25 adopted budget. Sorry. 1.5% from the FY20 FY adopted budget. 25 adopted budget. 25 adopted budget. There it is. That is a lot of numbers. Y the last part
150you just said. Can you repeat that? Yep. So the last part was for its increase of a 1.5% I have to adopt the general manager's proposed budget. Y you want to do the No, just that start part. What was the town manager's 1.5% proposed budget? Yeah. Did you mention the total dollar amount? Yep, I did. 954,989 that increase the total of 64 million. I didn't for the total overall budget for the town is 60 and board of education capital 64 million $620 900 $620,929. Oh my god. Not a math major. [Laughter] That's why we're being very specific. No, it's good. Motion's been made. Is there a second to that motion? Is there a second? Second. A second. I'll second for the point of discussion. All right. Motion's been made and seconded. All right. Is there
151any discussion? I'll can I or go ahead say I'm so trying to write numbers down. I'll say um as I said we don't know about a 1.5 but I do recognize that we do need some consensus. I will support a 1.5. I will continue to advocate for it as bipartisan as it can be. Um close the gap significantly. Um first recommended and the second um two weeks from now and um you know that we are low I want I want this thing to to go through so say that obviously council check would do that as well um given that she made the motion so discussion. This is still very hard for me. I I recognize um I recognize where we are. I recognize what we had as as far as failure. This is still very
152very difficult for me. Um do we need to we we identified the proposed uh allocations for each side, right? For the BOE side and the municipal side. So this if we're looking at 693 and 149 We're still not even covering the cost of insurance. So, I guess I guess what I would like to what I would like to say is that the total increase is a little over 842 and our insurance increases a million and that doesn't begin to cover electricity or anything else. It's just insurance that we're and we're still not we're not we're still not covering it. So, um yeah, it means that all of that other stuff is going to come out of services because it has to. But the residents keeping it down. We're stuck. I get it. Yep. We're not
153We just put it forward and they get to vote. So, yeah. So we got a million insurance and electricity and fuel and transportation and that's we've got you know 60% of that or 70% of it. So and that's not that's not talking about covering those basic expenses is not nicing people. It's covering the expenses and it's covering the the people that have that hand out that we that we have to pay. So weren't going to pay them more your insurance company or anything else. So if we go and do just cover those basic expenses, we're going to be higher than where we were. I failed. I agree. We are we are not going to cover our basic expenses. I just want that to be very very very clear. Do you support this budget? I will
154say this is meant to be a neutral comment towards councelor Shay. I don't want to discuss about this but you know the last budget we were able to decrease the margin considerably votes to 400 um 1.5 I think is still a tough cell to continue to support it uh try to get it try to get it through we've got we have very tough decisions to as a council. That's where we are right now. Um, you know, we've used considerable um we've used our funds considerably. Um, next year we've got, you know, a million dollar plug from two million well one million from the motor vehicle tax plus uh an additional million, you know, from all the money that we we used this year. Um, that will have to be have to be plugged before talk
155about contractual increases. Um, based off of uh some of the analysis that you have put together, um, if we were if next year's council were to go into unassigned fun balance again, which they probably will have to dip into it at some level next year simply because um, they won't be able to get a budget passed without it. they will be going from a nice healthy above the policy level to smack dab up in the middle of it and in the following year probably below 10%. So I don't really see that as I don't think so. Not based on not based on the numbers that we we're looking at. Um but it it yeah we I I would I don't want to muddy the motion in front of us but that's another that's a side
156issue that we should discuss. Yeah. And I just want to say again uh you know We'll never be research but certainly last year you know we we haven't actually used the other side fund balance that we thought we would use. So that's you know yep we got good investments and we don't we can't be sure that's going to happen but to be clear even when we have a lot of fun balance private budgets the prior budget we didn't actually but we're using this we know that we have a million dollar anything else and that's that's the point that's that's why I get so sensitive about because setting the next council up to fail too deep in those numbers That's back to say I like the 1.5 but we'll support it. Is there any other discussion
157about 1.5? Well, there's no discussion about it. Um I think we're gonna go def uh council BB. Yeah. Um sorry, I'm so tired. I was looking at you expecting. It's all right. We'll just go in the opposite direction. Council nay. Council you I n I'm an I as well. That motion fails because it all right. Um All right. Well, we're pass 1.2 and I'm not going to go any higher. So I don't understand this mely pass. But you voted for it. But I mean, norally budget boarding manager and I just don't I feel like we're gonna be here all night and it's just already painful. I mean 1.5 is way lower than I want to go and so is balances you don't have to get into but I'm not willing to vote like I can't
158my Congress don't let me vote for it. If if it council is not going to agree to it, it doesn't matter. So that's what my exactly where I am today. I understand the concern about council and obviously I wrote the letter with you council but I think we do have some influence here. I think bringing it down does matter people to vote on you know Yeah. know and I've been working towards that but you know or the minimum I also have I also have like a floor too right like councelor Shay has a ceiling and I have four and like you said I'm one vote and you know that's I I'm not and I will also say I won't no matter what the budget passes out of here I won't publicly even if I don't
159know I won't try to I just don't know I just don't know Why? Why? We're not going to be exactly the same. So, with all due respect, Jacob, you wrote the letter with Chris, your town committee wouldn't even put it on their page. Well, I'm quite aware. I I understand you're aware. What I'm saying is if we aren't all together on the same page, what is the point? because we're delaying because we're going to be repeating as we are talking about history. We're going to be repeating history. If again your committee's not publishing your letter on their page, they're sending out a vote no text and we end up because like I said, it's I think it's easier to convince people to vote no than to vote yes. I think we all need to be
160on the same page. I think we've all been compromising this entire time. We're just waiting on one individual to compromise as well. And that means getting your entire group on board with at least being silent and neutral about the budget. If town council chair writes a letter in support of the budget, put it on the page. I mean, these are these are simple moves that can help this process. But instead, everyone's going to just make it more difficult. Ask the chair, what do we do next? If nobody's actually gonna I don't mean to be rude, but it's it seems I get what everybody's saying. I mean, I really I really understand. I feel like that's where we're at. And oh, Brian, what happens if we keep voting? Yeah. Can we do a quick recess, please?
161For recess. Second. Those in favor? I call us back from recess. All right. Thank you. Are there any um further budget motions? Um, so I just want to, you know, think helps me to check, you know, I know, I mean, not everyone, but I know you would, especially reading rather than members last time, you were, you know, trying to to to to arrive at some consensus to get us um to move us forward, right? Um 1.5% is certainly, you know, it's it's not where I want to be. I the cuts to the talent board of ed are significant. Um but you know understanding where we are um and in the interest of you know again still trying to work together to to find our way through this um I would support council check's um prior
162motion and so I move to recall the question that council had put forward I hopefully just in the record to read it all to read it all I can read I Okay. Well, ours can. Yeah, I think you're good. It's the exact same motion. Correct. Question. 1.5%. Is there a second? I think you need Yeah, there should be a second. Is there a second that motion? I'll second it. Okay. Thank you. All right. Um, we already discussed it, so we're just going to go to a vote. Uh, councelor Buckler, I. Councelor Gichek, I. Council Ran, I. Councelor Shay, hi. Councelor B. Hi. I'm an I as well. So that passes 521. Right. Thank you. Um as I reiterated, I will support this budget and I will pass. All right. That moves us to item six,
163which is approval of a resolution authorizing the form of the ballot for the June 3rd budget referendum and any subsequent budget referendum. Um we do have a proposed budget form which is the same resolution that we have used in the past. Um is there any discussion about that question? We're not the secondary question again, right? I know that there were some people mentioned in emails that they were still looking for that secondary question. So, I think it was a really good idea that we did it. Yeah. Um, and I think it worked, but I just want to make sure we're not considering it again. I think we're just as So, um, as uh, you actively filling them out. Okay. I will let you be. reading it. Do you want me? Oh, you're just going to
164read it. Do you want to read it? Yeah, you can fill in. Yeah. Yeah, we should. We should read it out. Yes. I'll do it. Thanks. Last couple. Okay. In regards to the draft resolution, I'm going to read number one, item number one, the ballot question for the June 3rd referendum as follows. Shall the town town of town's proposed 2025 20226 budget of 64,620,929 reflect a spending increase of 1.5% which requires an estimated tax rate of 27.19 mills for a decrease of 10.58 mills or 28.01% be adopted. I'll run through the numbers again. Uh just the numbers. 64-620929 in the first box. 1.5 in the second box. 27.19 in the third box. 10.58 in the second to last box. And in the last box, 28.0. Sorry. All good. Is there a motion to adopt a
165draft resolution? I'll make a motion. Thank you, Council Buff. Is there a second? I'll second. All right. Any discussion? Pass it. Um, all those in favor? I opposed. Right. Uh motion passes and is adopted. Um brings us to adjournment. Is there any objection to adjournment? No. See now we are adjourned to the next say.