Torrington BoE AI Ad-Hoc Committee Meeting & BoE Special Meeting & Policy Committee Meeting

001It is 5:30. We are in order. Running down the uh agenda. I'm going to take the role. Uh let's see. John Kiscoco. Yeah, I'm here. Gary Ukalito. Susan Ferguson, Angela Nor, Ashley Santo, Pietro, >> Amanda Torres, Erin Sullivan, >> Julie Terelli here, >> Gavin Craig here, >> Jeff Putnham Len Burgerer, Mary Gad, Edward Corey, and board clerk is on this, but that's just forformational purposes, right? Thank you. Okay. Uh, we have a couple of meetings following us, so the quicker we get through this, the better. A reminder, please, if you want me to hear you, please use your microphone when you're speaking because my ears are older than I am. I think even older than the rest of me or at least not working well. Uh [clears throat] last time we said that when we

002came back what we would do would be to go over what teachers had decided to put uh what flesh teachers had wanted to put on the bones of guidelines and policies etc. And the same thing about more uh information about what they would expect from this from administrators and then about uh what board members want to get out of this which presumably will be as simple as just making policy. But let's start with teachers. Teachers, who wants to start with teachers, are you specifics have you come up with about guidelines, policies, etc. So for the high school level, being able to have students use services like chat GPT or similar services that in a way that we can teach them how to responsibly use it, teach them how to ethically use it, teach them the

003difference between having the work done for them versus using a tool to create, hone, um, and tweak information in a way that is appropriate for the business world and what businesses and the way businesses are currently using it um is our biggest focus and I'll pass over to Jill. >> Yeah, similar at the middle school. I think what we um really need to focus on is um that literacy component for the adults and the students um when it comes to AI. Uh so g getting that um professional development for the adults first um and ways that it can be used with the kids to prepare them to move up to high school. >> Ashley, >> thanks. So um I wanted to say how I think it's important to teach the academic responsibility of using AI

004as a tool instead of a reliance in terms for the critical thinking skills and coming up away with like you said like the people or teachers for like how to approach things like that. >> Any more teachers? No more teachers. Okay. So anything specific about the kind of training for instance? We'll start with that that you think teachers need. >> Well, I think um there's multiple things that are out there. I think the most easily accessible and free um is the information that can be accessed on common sense media. I'm believe um the library media specialists across the district have been tapping into that resource over the years. Uh there are uh lessons that are created for students and then there's professional development on the site for um teachers as well. Uh so that's a

005free resource that's out there right away. Um I know we've had Matt Mervvis come in. I know um Gavin's done some work with him. He's very involved in the um AI initiative and I think um Gavin could elaborate on that more, but that would be something that would that would cost the district money to have him. you are very involved is an understatement about what Matt's doing. [laughter] In addition, we've already had some wonderful PD on AI durable assessments and in combination with our um OTL department and the high quality assessments, even that specific AI PD has led to improvements and um facilitation of of stronger academic discussion around assessments and what assessments should look like in the modern age. So continued PD on how to make assignments AI durable so that students are not

006even at home using services like chat in order to complete their assignments but then also how to create assignments and lessons that do teach the type of literacy that we are aiming for. Um and h what that looks like at the high school level in the different subject areas. what AI usage and literacy looks like in English will be very different than what it looks like in chemistry will be different than what it looks like in a coding class etc. >> So the assumption is that AI is here and will be used more and more as we go along. Okay. Um >> Ashley, did you have more from an art standpoint in terms of PD? >> Not really. I think just like to agree with what you said more towards like a teacher-led conversations on

007how to use it appropriately per class and where those uses pertain is like pros, cons, good, bads. >> Okay. Any concerns about about using AI? For instance, kids feed things into AI. Teachers feed things into AI which then get used by the providers of AI to train and continue. Uh we don't see a security issue with that. >> I'm I keep hearing that that's a security problem and I'm going to ask Jeff in a minute to to to go further with that, but I'm wondering if that's been a part of anyone's thinking here. >> Yep. So, I know that on the common sense media um for the kids to use anything on there and I even even platforms like um Scratch, they ask sometimes for an age on there. So, it could require something where

008parental consent was needed for kids that were accessing things. But I think for me at this the table, the most important thing is that is the the literacy piece. It's kind of like when we um think about like DARE, right? It do we teach the kids about drugs? Is it going to make them use it more, use it less, or do we educate them on it? I kind of compare this AI um to that can we give them the resources to make informed choices when um they need to or they want to so to um educate them in that way like we would in a when they were citing sources and writing a paper. um what is the responsible use of it? Regardless of AI, electronic resources and search engines will continue to be a

009part of their daily academic life um inside or outside of the classroom. So even if we if we don't have that inside the classroom, it will continue to be a function outside the classroom. Uh when they are working on their college applications, it will be a function. and teaching them the literacy to know how to protect themselves in those situations is I think where we put our best foot forward. >> Okay, Jeff, anything to say about the security of >> you mentioned the security the the piece in AI? There are multiple ways to do this. There's your chat GPTs and Claudes and Geminis that live in the cloud that collect all your data. It's a part of the use, the terms of use that they're going to collect the data and they're going to use

010it to improve improve the model. Um, there are private cloud versions of this where you can pay them extra and they they promise you or it's in their agreement that the data won't be used to continue to train its models or you can also have your own private AI. You can have an in-house one. So, if you that's an expensive option right there because you have to put the infrastructure in place and have the computing power to do it. But you can keep the entire AI model here and run specific AI models that specialize in certain things. So the data doesn't go to the cloud and there's no risk of it. No risk of a student in a in a classroom setting or in a in one of our buildings taking their college application which

011has personally identifiable information on it and uploading it to Gemini and Gemini then it's supposed to strip that information out. But look, technology, as our director could could attest, is never perfect. It just it tries and it does a good job. But if we really want to insulate ourselves from that, you have to look at some of the alternatives which either come with a large upfront cost or a larger ongoing cost. Not that AI is bad, but if you're going to protect that data, some considerations have to be given either to what you're allowed to put into the AI or assume that people will not follow the guidance. people as in kids, everybody not knowing, doing it unknowingly, uploading something they shouldn't by having a local model or a model that doesn't share information may

012be advantageous >> because the rule is if the product is free, the product is really right is really you. >> Yeah. We're totally training their model for them. I mean, and and we're actually paying them in many cases. You know, you pay your $20 for chat GPT or you pay your monthly fee, you're paying them and you're helping them train it. So, >> but there are ways you can insulate yourself or at least you'll be told by them you're insulating yourself from it. >> Correct. >> Okay. Anything else, Gavin? >> So, yes, I I think that's a really good point is that uh AI can also if if we're just what it is right now is kind of a wild wild west, right? We we are [clears throat] not saying as a district yes or

013no to AI in general. Um, and so we're allowing everybody as an individual to a degree to make those decisions. And I think that it would be very helpful to have some guard rails around this because I don't think unrestricted AI use is good, warranted, uh, helpful to our students or to our staff. Um but I do think that the use of AI under certain parameters and certain guard rails that we all agree upon would be very helpful and additive to not only um you know our staff's lives but even our students lives because they are widely using it at this time um both in their personal lives and in their work lives. I think one of the things to kind of consider is, you know, having private server or boxedin types of generative AI

014options. Uh I know Ed advance has their own in that. Matt MVIS actually does have um an an option that's available to us and to a degree for it. Um but I you know I think in terms of the security piece there's obviously a big concern there and I I think as an administrator I will say that uh you know we would like some clear guidance as to what the dos and don'ts are so that we can then make sure that that's um contained so that we don't have an issue of you know uh you know constantly worrying whether or not people are going to feed too much information into a model that doesn't have the private acy and supports that we're used to >> and everything we said has to be balanced against the

015way we really have to train kids to interact with AI because that'll be a part of practically any job that that a kid gets after except perhaps for the the most manual labor types of jobs interacting with AI will will be their future so they need to know how to use it what the pros and cons are now this is we're looking at teaching right now. We'll get to administration and policy later. So, >> sure. Um, so in an effort to be more open-minded and open to the feedback from the people who are in our schools every day, I I would say what I you know what might be workable and something that I could accept and I think would do relatively little harm would be to offer you know literacy coursework at the high

016school level. I would not be in favor of any kind of AI coursework at the younger grade levels. I I certainly would be in favor of a very strong policy prohibiting students from using AI for any of their assignments. Right? I think a student who writes a paper using chat GPT should get a zero. They should fail and they shouldn't have an opportunity to make it up. Um, and in the same vein, and this is going to be a bit controversial, I don't think that we should allow district employees to utilize AI in anything that is student or employee facing. Meaning that I don't think that we should be ever using these AI models in HR functions. I don't think that we should be um writing lessons plans. I certainly think it should be a

017a discipline problem if somebody were to use it to either grade a student or evaluate a teacher uh or to even correct or collate those things because uh in the same way that you wouldn't as a teacher want to be evaluated by chat GPT neither would the students um so I I think that really it's not a I guess a major concession but the only thing I would be comfortable with is some literacy coursework for our older students. Um, because I think that makes sense and I think it would be a denial of the reality to say that we can't be teaching them that this stuff exists at all. Um, and you know, I would be a hypocrite to make that argument, but I I just don't think that we should be utilizing it for

018things that directly face or impact other academic pursuits or the people who are in our schools, be they district employees or students. Go ahead. [laughter] I know somebody on this corner of the table I guess in some ways I I I completely hear you Mr. Corey in terms of you know the concerns on on that on all of those fronts. Um I will also say that um having five children of my own and we're on the way uh I've had my own experiences with some very interesting online behavior at times. uh that in the last month and a half as the assistant principal of Torington Intermediate School, I have had some very interesting um conversations with students and then now families who constantly say, "My child's too young for that. Not my kid. My child

019would never lie to me." And yet we have time and time again been surprised by how savvy and how integrated our students lives are with technology. And while I would support certainly AI literacy at the high school level, I would argue that they are already fully engaged in AI literacy of their own kind, to their own direction and to a very detrimental direction at times without any sort of guard rails at the 456 level as well. >> Anyone else? [snorts] >> Mr. Wilson. >> Yeah. Thank you. I I I heard the arguments pros fors, cons, against, whichever, however you want to put it. You know, I think the the guardrail approach that Mr. Corey I kind of sort of was leaning towards. You know, there are specific AI models meant just specifically for school. You

020know, everyone talks about chat GPT like it's the end- all beall and Gemini and whatever else, you know, that people use. I think that you know for example there's and I don't want to promote any one company but I know the director of technology and I sat through a lengthy presentation from Magic School and Magic School is not what everyone thinks AI should be or could be. It really focuses you to keep putting the information in. So if you didn't do your homework to Mr. Cory's point I can't just say write me an essay about Mr. Craig. It's going to say okay well tell me about Mr. Craig. Oh okay. you got to keep giving all of that information before it would give you any other feedback back to put into any kind of um

021documentation that you would use. So I think that there there are platforms specifically made for school. I think you know Mr. Craig you said and I don't want to misquote you it is the wild west right there's so many different platforms that our students are trying to use and trying to get away with if you will. Um but I think we have to be cognizant and aware to Mr. Kisco's point where yes we understand that it is in the world around us but I think our job as educators and if that is the board's pleasure to to go in a direction where we are going to start utilizing AI as a tool and as an education component we have to be very careful and pick an AI meant for schools and meant for children that

022have those guard rails built in that are not just going to give you the answer not just going to give you the essay not just going to grade a paper to Mr. Cory's point, you know, our teachers work very hard and as they should to give students appropriate feedback. I wouldn't want my feedback from an electronic device. I think that that's very important and that keeps our um rapport with our students paramount. So I think if that is the direction that the board is thinking, I want the board to be aware that there are many many platforms that are out there. And you know, Rachel knows way more of the technical than I ever could imagine at that uh experience that her and I went through. But when we got to play in it, it

023was very telling that we just couldn't say do it. It was not as like chat GBT do it. And that was part of their presentation where they actually did use chat GPT versus theirs to say you can do it this way or this is the way whereas it has so much more of a strong educational component to it. And as educators in the room and I heard that from the educators sitting here and from our administration sitting here that's if that's the tool that we the board want to use and and and start to teach and start to incorporate. I would just caution that it has to be an AI meant for schools, not just any AI that yes, when they graduate they can use any AI they want. To Mr. Putnham's point, that's fine.

024You pay the 20 bucks on Chat GBT and it's your unlimited version. But for us in schools, it matters and that would be where I stand on the on the position. And as I said, that's just one thing, but I think our direct tech uh director of technology knows way more than that specific one. And she'd be able to even say these guard rails are good. and then to talking about selling our our stuff and using it for training. That's already built in from the Connecticut clause when these people want to sell to Connecticut. So, we wouldn't have to worry about that. So, that would be my um comment on the matter. >> Thank you, Gary. >> Well, I I I probably go with Ed more than anything, but I will just Well, there there

025are people here are going to speak tonight that are expert in this, and I'll let them I'm not an AI expert, I can tell you. I've given people lots of research. I can use the chairperson of Anthropic, one of the co-founders, who simply said, "You're never going to teach the kids AI because it changes tomorrow. What you need to do is teach the humanities and think critically and AI is not the way to do it." What she says is in order to use AI in the future, and I'll let some of the people that are here, especially Ian, because he he he runs a big group of people at Ernston Young, um I think it's a misconception that learning anything I'm not I'm not going to say we shouldn't have something, and in fact, I'll

026start with that. We need and what I'm going to hand out tonight is what people know is a computer lab. You can use kids, you can teach kids how to use it ethically, but every single classroom shouldn't be teaching it. It should be in a computer lab where it and I've talked to Rachel where it is controlled. Every single computer is being watched and then the school comes up and whatever that course is going to be maybe with the help of of consultants but it it it's never going to be used and taught in a way that we can stay ahead of it. And that's not me saying that. Those are the people who are creating it. You're never going to stay ahead of the students in the model. They're cheating now. They're cheating in

027Torington. They're cheating in the schools. My granddaughter was not in Lfield High School. won't say her name, talking to a bot at 12 years old. And the bot told her in order to distinguish between a robot and a human, get an axe and hit the robot and see if it's a human. This is during school. She's 12 years old. She's in a 99.9% reads five books a week. She had a conversation and a friendship. She told her friend, "I've befriended a bot on AI in school." So my approach is going to be how we keep our kids safe. Do teachers do a better job than AI? I absolutely think so. I don't know that AI and I've got lots of studies. I' I've handed them out. I hope people do more research. AI is a

028tool, but it it's not serving a purpose in high school unless they know how to and not even be used in high school because introducing it into the high school realm is a security risk and can be a security risk. And AI itself is rewriting models as the kids use it to get around firewalls. you know, Anthropic just shut one of their models down because it fooled another model. Um, so I think we can have a computer lab and I'm we're going to propose that in the policy that all these things get taught in a computer lab so the kids can sign up for that and learn how to use it properly. Um, probably once they get to college, but Mr. Ber's daughter is graduating this year and she called me and said, "I'm going

029to write a letter because everybody's cheating in college with AI. Nobody's doing any work." So, nobody taught them how to use it ethically, I guess, and the teachers can't control it. So, it's going to take a lot of they are talking about a five-year moratorium through the Senate on applying it to school systems. It's dangerous. But I do agree we do need to teach the children something. But it has to be that person who understands and maybe it's Gavin, I don't know what you I know you're assistant principal, but somebody who understands technology, understands computers and as Jeff once mentioned with a computer lab, you know, to really get these kids to understand how to use it, they need to understand how to how the software works, how to create software, what algorithms are, what

030they can do with an algorithm, and all those things that can lead them to a future with AI. Because if you're learning A in high school, by the time you get out in two years, a bot's going to be doing an agent's going to be doing your job for you. Um but understanding how to promote and work through that program takes a lot of unique knowledge and we can teach that in a computer lab you know but controlling these things now with 4,000 kids with and we're going to propose cards too but 4,000 kids with 4,000 computers and having Rachel have to track them every day and how many kids are breaking into the system and how many kids are cheating and um it's we're spending a fortune doing that and it's not doing the

031kids any favor. So we can get through this and Gavin I I agree mostly but I think I would think it's a computer lab that solves all your problems whereas you dictate what the course is going to be through the curriculum and you apply it through the labs along with the other courses they need Excel and Microsoft Office and all those things we don't and in the arts too it's it's a very important program for the arts and that might be the exception in special education it's very important um and other statutorial things you know creativity it can be very helpful But, you know, I don't think it should be allowed in high school other than if it's taught through the lab where they learn how to use where they can learn how to use

032it effectively after school. So, >> okay. Thank you, Gary. I I'd just like to remind us that the first things we heard from the teachers, it was Aaron who first spoke, >> responsibility and ethics. And I think our first line of defense is the classroom teachers. And if if we trust them and we have to, uh, I think some of those concerns are maybe lessened. um state uh passed the HR protection for AI for instance for people uh and also the chatbot I'm your buddy and etc maybe even worse uh and that was part of the state law that passed just a couple days ago right so these things are being taken care of state has promised us AI guidelines for policy have not delivered um I shouldn't say have not delivered it's a complex

033thing and you really wouldn't want anything that that got rushed Shipman Goodwin doesn't have policies, model policies for us to look at. And I don't think Cab does either, although I didn't check uh didn't check there. So, this is who said Wild West, Gavin, I think that was you. Uh yeah, this is still the Wild West. There are some school systems that that have policies on this, but we'll get to board members and policies in a couple minutes. Right now, I'm focusing on teaching and teachers. So, we're still at guidelines and training, right? And okay, let's leave it at that and go to administrators because we've already burnt half an hour of the meeting time. Gavin, you're you're the only administrator here. What uh so I a couple things and maybe that kind of >>

034tag this in together maybe. Um, you know, I think one of the things to to note or to to understand so that everybody has the same kind of level of understanding of how much AI is integrated into our process already. Our FIABs, the interim assessments that we use for uh ESPEC are currently being utilized to and graded by AI. the the shortterm uh the the short answer responses are an AI generated rating from that. Now the ESPA testing itself is not. So as a formative tool the FABS is one level and then as the ESPA itself it is not. So that's one way in which I can say that you know Smarter Balance and or College Board andor, you know, the the state have differentiated how much they're letting in when it is a summitive

035assessment versus something that they're using as an instructional tool. Um evaluation versus support. I I absolutely agree with I think it was Mr. Putnham that said something along the lines of how you know or Mr. Cory had actually said that nothing should be evaluative in terms of AI doing the evaluation of um but in terms of support uh you know I I would say that there are elements to which from an administrative side of education to which we can utilize AI to either help support in you know writing certain documents or emails or um providing some uh kind more cohesive and clarity to the feedback that we do give um as opposed to it generating it for us and saying hey here's this information interpret it for me. I think that there's a big difference

036in in in that regard and I would not want uh school-driven AI. You know, I I I think that that's a big component that it it would be dangerous that if we had a an AIdriven type of schooling. Um but what I am advocating for is a teacher-led standardsbased AI literacy, you know, not AI run type education. So, I think that that's I don't I don't think that we're very far off in in in a sense in that regard. And it's now how do we take what students already have access to, what they're learning, how do we make that a little bit smaller, maybe through our own firewall systems and whatnot that honestly has been improving each year significantly to the point where we are now catching things that are being actively typed by our

037students to be able to address those things. Those are things that are being caught by our uh firewall system. Whereas, you know, some of the AI platforms that >> like Magic School that do not that are programmed to not provide answers but provide a thought partner in the generation of so that all they're doing is um a part of the the process itself. It's used for feedback. It's used for questioning, used for vocabulary support, but it's not going to be used to actually process the information in the same way. I think if we can get our guard rails to get down to that level, I think we're in a really good shape as a district. Um, I would also say in terms of the policy aspect of things, UNESCO is one of the ones that

038does have guidance in terms of AI policy. So, I check that out. Um the the state department does have some guidance, but it's not as specific as Mr. Eco was kind of referencing. Um but there are a few school districts and and Mr. Murvvis actually could provide us with some of those I think without cost um to be able to take a look at as well in terms of policies and guidance from a district level as well. >> Thank you. Uh, going back to something that Gary said about computer labs. Now, this is an administrator question, Gavin, so I guess it's for you. Um, when I was overseeing the computer lab when I was teaching, I I could hone in on any kid's screen. I could call up any kid's screen. Now, I'm sure the

039technology exists if every kid is working through. Okay, Erin, want go ahead answer the question before I ask it. >> No. No, no, no. Because you know what I'm going to ask. Okay. >> Yeah. We we have as teachers in the classroom, we have that capability now >> for the kids who are hooked up to our wireless or to our Wi-Fi system. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That's what I was >> through light speed and that's what we do in the class is we monitor what they have open if they're if they have, for example, a research session in class or a writing session in class. we're monitoring what um tabs are open on their computer to make sure that they're not distracted, for example, or that they're not um using um sites such as chat

040or other sites that they should not be using um while they work on their um materials. >> So, you can see their screen or just where they are. >> I can both. Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. So that >> see so there are protections Gary and I know that probably isn't enough for you but I don't think we can assume that the kids will sit there if they're if they're in the research phase of a project uh that they're >> and to Mr. Eucal's point, the kids are always going to be ahead of us to a degree. We're always going to be a week or two behind. And so I I'll give you a great example. We had an issue where we had a few students being able to use um kind of like for non-computer

041techy per people picturein picture. So you have your TV and you have a picture with inside the picture. There were a few students that were learned how to actually make it into like a picturein picture kind of style thing and then tried to cheat by only showing our firewall part of the process. Now we have since shut that down. We we haven't had any instances of that since that time, but we're constantly having to battle that. So that's just that's a reality of things for us and that's regardless of whether it's AI or just general technology use. Um, but I do think that uh our our firewall system has gotten increasingly better each and each year. Uh, and that's what I was referencing to when I said as they're typing, it is sending us as

042administrators the alert that they're either searching up some sort of content that is considered violent or, you know, suicidal content or just inappropriate for school and then we follow up in person as a result. And I think that that's a big um benefit to us as administrators to be able to kind of have that in time discussion with the student then follow up with the teacher, follow up with a family so that we can actually address those needs. >> And what percentage of our teachers are really comfortable using that kind of technology? Now >> I'll defer to the teachers on this one. So using light speed. >> Yeah. Using I mean everybody. >> I think everybody because prior to light speeded we had >> uh the classroom. What was it? >> Securely. >> Thank you.

043>> Securely um I think they're you know very comfortable. In fact um I know teachers in my building have become um very well-versed in it and have offered their time to share um their knowledge with other um teachers. Um, you know, we've talked about it in meetings as far as how to limit tabs on the number of uh, so if a student is on the computer, they can, you know, we can limit their tabs to have two tabs open. So they can have Google Classroom open and then whatever they're reading on there. So they can only have that on there. Um, so well, I don't think there was ever any district formal um, professional development on Light Speed. Maybe at the high school. No, I don't think um people have picked up on it along

044the way and have self-taught themselves and have passed it um along to others. So um and it's used pretty much on a regular basis. Have kids found a way to get around it? Yes. Um and then we reort it. Look at so and so's computer and Rachel will fix it. And um yeah, >> if you don't mind, I did just want to say we did do um a formal training on it during the two days of PD um before school started, I believe last school year and in February as well. Yes. >> Okay. And do we have any troglodites who just absolutely refuse to engage this technology? >> Not to our knowledge. No, I'm sure there are some. [laughter] I'm just wondering is it 1% or 10% or 50%. I >> I would argue at

045best it's 1% only because we do have a onetoone device kind of process or we did at one point and so it was so necessary for us to be able to track and do know what was happening on those screens that it it was almost a required >> because our teachers are now almost all digital natives anyway, right? Okay. >> Yes. Uh, okay. I'm I'm I'm going to I'm going to say that we've finished specific from teachers and specifics from administrators, uh, board members, anything that hasn't been said already. I just think that even in the context of um you use the terms supports, I think that there's a lot there that we should unpack and frankly that I would be opposed to. um you know for example uh like we discussed the idea of

046using um LLMs to collate uh and you know edit and what have you evaluatory information uh before being transmitted to a teacher let's say um and I would just say that I think that kind of it makes it a little soulless but it's it also is still abregating our responsibility um both as administrators but and to the teacher being evaluated. Um, when you are just, you know, you write down some numbers on the rubric, right? Because there's always a rubric for a teacher evaluation. You're evaluating them on specific things that they understand and that you understand. Um, and if there isn't, uh, then there's a problem, right? The evaluation should be understood by both parties before it begins. Um it is also important to transmit the feedback in a way that is deliberate intent and

047intentional on the part of the evaluating administrator. Um, and I think anytime that we put information into a language model and have it spit out, uh, a reductive paragraph, um, we're doing ourselves a disservice and we're cheating the people who are supposed to be reading that information and digesting it, especially as it relates to their employment. Um, you know, I would I would be deeply insulted at a minimum if my employer sent me what was obviously an AI edited message related to my performance at work or my evaluation or what have you. Um I I think that anytime we are talking about using this, what we're really talking about is disconnecting the people in our schools from the roles they are meant to play, be it teaching or supports or administering or learning. um we

048are putting up a technological middleman um in between all of the people in this ecosystem who are really as we discussed supposed to have rapport with one another um supposed to spend lots of time communicating with each other in ways that are sometimes subjective and maybe poorly understood right and part of the process for our kids and for us is to break down the barriers to communication um not have them reduced to a to slop. Um, I'm just going to stop there, but I I just think it's important that we know what we're really talking about doing when we say things like supports. >> Glenn, you've been quiet. Anything you want to say? You don't have to. >> Thank you. [laughter] >> Yes, I I'll elaborate, I guess, a little bit. >> Um, I'm against

049it in general. I don't think it has a place in the younger schools, younger grades. I think we need to stick to the basics and teach kids how to read, how to write, and how to do math. I mean, I think most of our attention should focus on that. maybe introduction in the intermediate um the middle school with computer labs um and more of an introductory to AI um what it's about and then in high school do advanced computer labs and take baby steps into this because by the time the kid that starts it in seventh grade by the time he becomes a senior AI is going to develop a lot lot further. Um, I think we should just really stick on focusing on reading, math, arithmetic, things like that. I think we have a

050long way to go there and not get distracted too much by AI. And I think AI can also remove the personal touch from a teacher to a student if they if the teachers start relying on using AI to and not eliminate it, but if they use it utilize it too much to develop their curriculum and correcting papers, they're not going to understand little Johnny or little Mary on how their brain is working. And that's really their job to help them teach in my opinion, not let AI do the teaching. Uh teachers need to be closer to their students. Just >> uh Thank you. >> I think this is dangerous and we [clears throat] need to go a little bit slow. >> Gavin wants to say something then I'm going to ask OTL. So be aware

051OTL. I'm you're next. >> Totally agree with the idea of going slow. I think that if we were to open up the floodgates as it feels as though they currently are open, uh we have a lot more concerns that we would have to address over time. I think one of the things to consider is um when it is appropriate. Uh I I agree with you that the basics of of academics are what we should maintain as our top priority as a district. Um I will also say that I have a few students that as a result of their extracurricular technology use at the intermediate school are now chronically absent due to disciplinary reasons because of their technology use. no other purpose or no other reason. And in those instances, if they knew, if they learned,

052if they had awareness of the degree to which some of the actions that they were taking were not even borderline illegal, straight up illegal at times that we would have them in front of us more as a as educators. And that the typical student right now in fifth grade that has chronic absenteeism is roughly 11 points behind in terms of percentile points from a student that is not. And so I I look at those individual instances of students that through no fault of their own may or may not have the oversight like I happen to have growing up um of the u managing and the conversations at the dinner table and whatnot. And we do that is a reality for us that we do have to continue to battle against. And so while I don't

053see merit in replacing reading or math or writing with AI literacy, I don't know that excusing earlier grades even from some sort of level of information and some sort of level of um teaching around [sighs] how the ethics around some of this work. I I think we'd be remiss and I think we'd be losing some students along the way if we made an arbitrary cut off of either high school or middle school or seniors to being having um knowledge and or awareness or a plan for how to address with students. >> Thank you. Uh OTL, your turn. >> Okay. Um, I think thinking about this in terms of student safety is critical. Uh, in terms of how we educate our kids, I keep coming back to the portrait of the graduate and three specific areas.

054Effective communicator, right? Complex thinker and creative problem solver. That's the area we need to lean into in terms of curriculum and instruction. what we've been working on in terms of how we create lessons and experiences for kids to think in a complex way so that they can address any problem that's thrown at them, not turn to an AI model for a quick answer. I agree with you a thousand% there. Uh any anything that shortcircuits thinking is really problematic in terms of the skills we want to develop in our students for a lifetime, not for an assignment, but for a lifetime. I do also and it it does worry me um I I think the text by John Hattie about the anxious generation is an important read regarding all of this. Um our students need to

055have experiences communicating and thinking together and collaborating together. But they also do need to be aware of the safety concerns and what can occur online and what these models actually mean and do. So it's a both and proposition but I think if we are thinking about it in terms of bigger buckets student safety and then how we are fulfilling the expectations of our portrait of the graduate that is a K12 vision then I think that might be uh some some guideposts to use the language we've already been using that can help us navigate what is a a pretty tricky uh and very complex uh situation in which we find ourselves and our kids unfortunately can access this material outside of our watchful eye. So, how do we help them learn how to be thinkers so

056that they don't need to turn to a quick answer? Uh, but also how not to be seduced by something like these models in moments of trouble, moments of feeling isolated, moments of feeling concerned and not having somebody to talk to, right? all of the relationship building that we do that is so essential so that kids know they have someone to turn to but also someone to process deep thoughts with. So that's that's where I am and where I think we're really leaning um in our office of teaching and learning and the work that we you know as I'm taking my notes about the work we need to do uh going forward. >> Thank you. Uh, Sue, you say anything? >> I'm going to break the microphone. [laughter] Um, I think what I would just like

057to add, and it's really not an addition. Um, it's just sort of reiterating what some of you have already said is I think our obligation is first and foremost to keep our children, our students safe. Um, I happen to be a traditionalist. I agree with what you said, Glenn. I think that reading, writing, and arithmetic, the three Rs are where we need to be focused, particularly at our K to3 schools. I don't believe that there's a place for that there's a need for artificial intelligence at our youngest grades. Um, you know, I I think we have an obligation um as our children get older into the intermediate grades because they are exposed to this to make them aware of the dangers of this and that is a conversation that has to be ongoing. Um, it's

058a slippery slope. Um, you know, as a district, I think this board has made great strides in moving back to what is really essential and what are the basics. Why are we here? Um, it's about reading and writing and arithmetic, right? and and there are obviously extensions of that, but it it boils down to teaching children how to how to survive in this everchanging world. Um I I am totally in agreement with what Michael said about you know if the board does choose to stick with this. Um you know we will have to adopt some sort of product that is designed for schools so that you know we we can really um focus on how to keep our kids safe. And I I think that's pretty much where everybody is is at, right? That's what

059everybody is saying. >> Okay, Gary. >> Yeah. Again, I I ask everybody, what is the educational benefit and what benefits the child by using an AI? Other than introducing them to the issues and the problems with AI, what benefit do they get educationally from AI? There's no study that indicates there's any benefit. In fact, the people who arrive at these models say just that. And the educa from the educational standpoint, AI doesn't help the outcome, it deters the outcome. And there's a thousand ways for kids to cheat and they do their hotspots and those kinds of things. So listen, I agree there's some we need to teach them at some point in time, but the experts say over and over again, and I gave stacks of it, and I think some people will talk about

060it today. Children are not cut out under the age of 18 to access AI and use it responsibly. So try to teach them what the responsibilities are, but you know, somebody said it's like giving them a gun with the bullets under 18 and saying, "Don't pull the trigger." Kids don't behave that way. Some do, but by and large it's like cliff notes. If you have them, you're going to use them. And I did all the time. Um, but you know, we have to be understanding of what we're doing to the children by putting them in putting this in front of them and stepping back and I use labs and trying to find a way to educate them as they get older on how to be how to be safe. >> Thank you. Okay, please. Quick,

061please. >> I'm going to go fast, John. Um just just two things and everybody's mentioned this very much so that relationship between the child and a member in the building or in the district is very important. So I think to summarize what most people have said I think everybody agrees or mostly agrees that the younger kids shouldn't read but reading math it's important to learn those core skills. I do think it's important that since they have access to this information and these tools outside of the classroom that we at least touch on some of the safety dangers and appropriate uses. I never want to sit in a board meeting and hear that, you know, a child's confidant in the school system is a computer. It really should always be a staff member. Secondly, by show

062of hands, who remembers when the Texas Instruments graphing calculator was introduced into the Torington public schools? Anybody? We're dating ourselves slightly here, but the the concern here was that it was going to ruin people's ability to do math. And there was a lot of guard rails. And the kind of the purpose of this committee tonight on a much grander scale is to understand how do we encourage or allow the use of this technology without ruining the educational process. When we were back in school, we were only allowed to use that TI83 graphing calculator after you demonstrated you knew how to use under do the principles of that math. So you moved on past a module and you knew how to do it. You could use it to take we'll say the shortcut, save some time

063into the next one. But you had to prove that you knew how to do it. It's like the heavy lift, right? You have to learn how to lift and do something before you can hand it off to somebody else. So, I think there are some plausible uses for this in the upper grades. I do 100% agree with the group that I don't want students to think that the computer is their best friend and I certainly don't want to see it replace the basic core skills in the younger grades. >> I don't know if plausible is the word. I think crucial might be the word for teaching, but okay. So, where going from here? and we have to decide when we're going to meet next and and how many times we will we will have to

064meet before we can make a final decision or report. Teachers, I think what you need to do is to you've heard what the critics are saying and I hate to say it, but it sounds like you're going to have to justify I know that sounds silly, but that you're going to have to justify the use of AI and get it down to what are the legitimate uses. And be nice if we had someone from the lower grades here because that would be useful I think because we've we've heard there there's an a perceived dichotomy between the need at the lower grades and the higher grades. I perceive that too but I don't teach the lower grades and never did. Uh so I think you you said you need training, you need guidelines. Well okay so

065guidelines is what we're talking about now. what what will the guidelines be for for teaching here if if you don't mind doing that. Uh and I think admins I don't think you're in quite the same position because you're the [clears throat] uses you've expressed are sort of reasonable. No one's going to argue with that. So unless you you know you'll have the Yes. people don't think it's a problem. Talk to our a tech person and the parents out here because they don't want it. Gavin, you recognize that you you said you're getting it's going to get worse. You're gonna get more teachers, I mean more parents, more kids just saying opt me out. And one thing you have to remember, if they choose to opt out, which they can, you got to teach both ways

066in the classroom. So they can opt out if they want to. So when do we meet again? Do we want to take the summer to think about this and meet again in September or do we want at the end of the year to schedule another meeting? Did I imply my choice? I don't know. >> I think you did. Yeah, it's up to you, Chairman. Well, >> I'm game. >> Really, it's up to them. I want to hear what the committee says because if if the committee wants to meet again before the end of this year so that we go into the summer with a clearer idea of what we want to finally do, then we'll do that. If not, then we'll meet again and see you in September. You know, we'll meet again after the

067school year >> begins. John, if we're going to be working on a policy, would it be should we wait to see what the policy ends up with or because if the policy >> hope that policy will follow these discussions rather than precede them um which maybe would be a I think it almost has to be that way. We have to know what what our educators want and then we can ignore it if we want but at least we will know what they not believe me. I've worked with board of eds for a long boards of ed for a long time as a teacher. >> Right. Yeah. Screens are sort of a separate discussion although somewhat ancillary. But the object here is to receive a recommendation from this committee um and use it to inform the

068board's ultimate decision. >> Right. >> Sounds like it means not waiting till September to do a next step. >> Not waiting till September. So we'll want to schedule another meeting for later this year sometime before the third week in June. Okay. There's a lot of time to do that, but teachers get a little bit busy between now and then. Administrators get a little bit busy between now and but that's okay. We, you know, well, do you want to piggy back? We're going to >> character building. It's charact considering it to be character building. Anyway, >> I'll be aggressive and say two weeks from now. >> What's that? >> We're probably we're going to need another policy meeting before the end. So, you can we can piggy back off that. >> Well, the the board can,

069you know, the board's policy committee will meet or can meet uh in June. Uh it'll have a meeting in August. You can we're try you can try to have your committee >> we usually don't meet in July. >> No, we don't. >> Uh but you can try to get your committee together for July if you want. I won't be there. Um so there there is a policy committee meeting on the books for August. So even if this isn't done in time for the committee and the board to take an action on in June, there will be time before the beginning of the next school year. Although it would be a bit abrupt. It would be pretty close to the beginning of the next school year. It's possibility. >> Any preferences on when we meet? Earlier

070rather than later, I assume like first week in June. First week in June. First week in June. First week in June. Once going twice. Okay. I'll try to get something set up. I will coordinate with Mrs. Ferguson to see if we get some something set up for the first week in June. and then we can address what the teachers you're going to throw your bodies in the road over these needs, these uses for AI, right? That's that's what I think policy is going to need to hear. Okay. >> Um if I may, um I don't know if anybody's interested, but I can try to have some of those schoolbased AI companies do a presentation on what they offer and um you know, their security protocols and things of that sort. if anybody's interested and then

071they can make a informed decision. >> What do those things cost? >> Well, they don't give you pricing online for enterprise. Of course not. [laughter] >> But um I can certainly look into that. >> And if I ask Mr. Wilson if it's in the budget, I know what that answer will be, so I'm not even going to ask. But no, the presentation sound good. We want to hear that. We want to hear what these people would say about >> Yeah. I'll see if I can get um >> who I can get to to come in that timeline. >> A deal with Mrs. Ferguson and then we'll try to figure out when we can schedule. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Anyone have a comment for the good of the order? Glenn, I don't know if this

072is a comment for the good of you or not, but Jeeoff, I'm going to need to tax your brain power for a minute, but this thing is not slowing down. AI. Um, [clears throat] in the business that Jeff and I are in, we've seen a significant disruption in supply chain with servers specifically. Um, is it OpenAI guy Alman? Is that what that is? He's made uh he's made a commitment to purchase somewhere between 30 and 40% of the memory production globally over the next four years. So, you may have seen it, okay? Um, your server prices, your computers prices, maybe your Cisco switches are going bonkers. Um, this thing is not going to slow down. I don't know what the AI world is doing, but they are gobbling up all the memory for computing power

073globally. >> Yeah, >> this is just one guy. So what their four-year plan is buying 40% of the memory computing power over the next four years. Someone's got to wonder what's the long-term goal that they're planning. >> Um it's something to be aware of. This thing is not going to slow down. It's going to take off and I think we really need to be prepared for it. This week's copy of The Economist talked exactly about that and how there is over demand in for AI services and some AI companies are cutting back on new new subscriptions, not allowing new customers on or not allowing customers to increase their usage. >> And if you guys going to buy computers, buy them soon because they're not going to get cheaper. >> No, that was pretty much the

074point of the economist article, too. Can prices well prices go only one way most of the time any uh looking for a motion to adjurnn. So second all in favor. >> We're adjourned. Thank you. being of the board of education at what time is it? 6:36. Um, if you could call the role, Kristen. >> Mr. Burgerer >> here. >> Miss Conway here. Mr. Cory >> here. >> Mr. Cronin, >> Mr. Ukalo, >> Mr. Kiscoco >> here, >> Mr. Knight, >> Mr. Klesha >> here, >> Mr. Putnham >> here, >> Miss Cleo >> here, Mayor Spino or representative Dr. Baker, Miss Ferguson, Miss Lavyby, Mr. Pragola here. >> Okay. Uh, Miss Schulty here, >> Miss Vian, Mr. Wilson >> here. >> Thank you. Um, Enix have a possible executive session regarding discussion of written attorney client

075privilege communication regarding draft instructional screen time policy. I would hear a motion to enter into executive session uh inclusive of Mr. Wilson, Miss Ferguson, Miss Schulty, Miss Vans, and attorney Antonetti. >> So moved. >> Okay. Moved by Mr. Putnham, seconded by Mr. Ukalo. Uh, all those in favor? >> Any opposed? We are in executive session. Gentlemen, uh, for those of you who are online, um, if you could call, who has the newest phone? Um, yeah, why don't you call Mr. Putnham and he'll make sure you're conferenced We are back in open session at I don't even want to know what time. Uh 7:24. Um and that was just an executive session. There's no vote to be had. Um so we will now do discussion on reviewing uh discussion on it should be discussion and review

076of the landscaping contractor bids. Do you guys have those to distribute? >> I don't have a packet. I only have an agenda. Thank you. Um, okay. So, why don't either you or Mr. Pragola, whoever wants to uh take it away for a preliminary review. >> Thank you. So, what you have in front of you um is the packet from this second bid that we went out to. Um the first page uh it'll say four of 31 at the bottom. Uh well let me back it up. Go to uh go uh three of 31 which is the public vendor signin sheet. Um so we had three people who came for the pre pre- bid walkthrough and only two people uh gave us a quote um on this new revised. The big difference in this and the

077last bid was the performance and bid bond that was included. Um, and there was two addendums I put in there also, uh, that came up during this process. This was a fasttrack process. I think we started it on, I don't know, Monday. We had our bids by, no, probably Thursday. I had them in by the following Thursday. Um, if you go to uh 4 of 31 is the checklist that we put together here on um um, [clears throat] you know, on the results. So, as you can see, the bid requirements um from the pre-bid meeting all the way into the um last page is uh percentage increase. Uh again, Premier and Jesperson were the two that bid it. Nagot Valley did come through the pre-bid, but they didn't submit a bid. Um so uh the

078checklist uh is um is as it is. As you can see if you go to page 531 um the vidder acknowledge and initial all issued addendas addendas one and two um that one there is missing by uh Premier Landscaping. Um every other checklist item is completed. Uh if you go to next page 631 where the spreadsheet we have here uh there's a lot of numbers because we did break it up into many different options. Uh again hoping to get possibly break this up u but only two two bids on it. So what we're looking at is again there's a lot of numbers if you absorbed it if you have any questions on those. I I did have a typo uh that's why I sent out an additional uh this new revised one. I did have

079a typo on it which didn't change the numbers that were most important which is at the final page. Uh on page 731 you can see the last block of uh the total cost from each of the vendors. Jesperson did utilize the u discount on the bulk sum. So, that is his number right there. Uh, for the three-year total, he's at 866. Premier is at 697320. Um, so any questions? Um, and if you keep going, you continue, you will see the performance bond is in there. Um, along with the non-clusion affidavit and all the supporting documents behind it. Okay. So, would there be any reason why the board would not accept the low bidder on this in your opinion? Um, in my opinion, again, there is uh there is that one missing element. Um, if they

080want to take that into consideration. Um, other than that, um, I don't have any other reason. Can I just get a clarification on the checklist? It's saying that the initials are missing, but page 25 of 31. I see addendum one, addendum two, dated and initialed. >> Yeah, the one that is is on top where it says request for bids. So um the request for bid um should have been dated and initialed and then addendum one should have been dated and initial which it was and addendum two should have been dated and initialed. So which page should have been and is not? >> Pardon? >> Which page should have been initial and is not? >> Um just the date and initial that the um uh acknowledge they receive all the bidding documents. >> So that's what

081it is. Um >> Oh, I see what you're saying. So if you look at page 25, you have request for bids, date, initials. Then you have a dendum one and two date and initials. >> Y >> um so there okay so there's just the minor issue there where um they are effectively not initialing that they received the bid documents and agenda but of course they did receive the bid documents because they signed them and they did assign a date and initial for the agenda which is perhaps the most relevant portion of that. Is that a fair assessment? >> Yep. >> Okay. Anyone have anything they want to >> I guess I guess if we do have uh >> I guess I kind of see that but it's a little confusing but they did sign a

082signin sheet that they received a bid and they re did attend a mandatory bid walk. Correct. >> Correct. >> So there is no legal reason why we couldn't give it to Premier or is there? you're just bringing up the inconsistency, but is it a legal issue? >> Um, no, I don't think it is. Uh, it's a kind of a a non-material deficiency um that is in there. You know, I don't want to say yes or no on that, but um >> I just thought you were a lawyer. >> What' you say? >> I thought you were a lawyer. >> Not tonight. And just remind me what we budgeted for next year's landscaping. I I'm mostly inquiring because I want to know if taking the low bid will be any kind of savings from what we

083did budget. >> I believe without having that number right in front of me, I believe it was 225 or 227. The board asked us to move it up at the budget meeting. That's the number I'm recalling. >> Okay. So in fact that's roughly in line with what Premier did bid correct as the low bidder. Um, so that's I mean it's not a savings, but I mean it's also not, you know, if we were to go with Jesperson as the higher bidder, we would have to add money to that budget line, which I don't know that we can afford. But, um, does anyone else have anything they wanted to say? >> Uh, Doug, does Premier have the correct and right amount of equipment for this job? >> Um, they did give me a list of equipment.

084Um, and it's it's not of the amount of equipment that the other one has. So, you know, it's their responsibility to get the job done with the equipment they have. Uh, you know, so it's not as a robust list. Uh, one of the things, uh, he did mention he's going to have to purchase a painting machine and and some other items, >> but they but they acknowledged in that conversation that they, you know, they are aware that they would have to make a purchase of the equipment and that they would be obligated to provide the service. >> They would be obligated to provide the service, right? >> And they would be bonded if they don't >> and they did complete their performance bond. Yep. So should that be a concern to us with the second

085time paperwork incomplete and the possible not enough equipment with premier? Um listen it could be um you know I I can't give an answer on that but um you know something to be said for the complete paperwork obviously and and you know >> so you know >> I mean I understand that premier came in lower but we have a good history with from what I understand Jesperson's and like I said last time didn't they come to our rescue with and the another company bailed and um he yes >> came through on the the bond which we asked him to do. Um so >> yeah and he he has also been doing work now um that we needed to get done for the track and field >> um that he is completed and you know if

086he gets the job obviously gets deducted if if if he doesn't I'm sure >> guessing will be built for it but um but he is he has helped out quite a bit you know he's he's proven he's been reliable he's familiar with the project so you know if you're if you're looking at low bid obviously there's something to taken for that if you're looking at those other items. Something to be said for that. >> Okay. No, thank you. Um I mean I don't think anybody would argue that um you know Jesperson's landscaping is unqualified. I mean I just personally I I think that there's you know you're looking at $170,000 over the course of a contract that you know we we have to consider. Right. I don't think either of these biders are unqualified and

087I have nothing disparaging to say about either of them. It's just the nature of government contracting that sometimes even if you would do a good job, you just bid the job higher than somebody else and you know that's the name of the game. At least that's, you know, that's my take. Anyone else wanted to dive in? If if no one else wanted to wants to dive in, um the agenda doesn't call for a specific motion. It does say possible action on the contractor bids. So, somebody wants to make a motion to accept a bid and contractor. Um, now would be the time. >> I just have one question. I mean, they have some good references, premier, I'm going by. Have you spoken to Street and Engineering and and Heritage Village is a huge complex? >>

088Uh, yes, I have. I have spoken to both of those and they they gave high recommendations. I I do want to add that and just so you know because this is you know we we broke this up quite a bit and the the turf maintenance is not included in this when you look at those numbers at the bottom um that that is not included in this. So, the turf maintenance cost um you know after diving into this and per your request I did take a look at keeping that in-house and I'm not there yet but I did talk to our lawyer today and it's okay that we're not there yet because the way we segment segmented this proposal and the contract I plan on bringing to you guys some evidence or some some material uh

089at the next facility meeting on the turf. So, I just want to let you know you this is just for it's everything but the turf maintenance which is that bars system that we talked about without getting into all the details of that. >> Thank you. Anybody else here? Were you still going? >> I just make a motion that we go a little bit better. >> Okay. Is uh is there a second? This would be for premier. >> Okay. Seconded by Mr. Punham. Any discussion further on this? So clarification, what do you mean it doesn't include the the turf where you submitted a number through through line item number 9? >> So take a look at the the spreadsheet would be the best thing to take a look at >> I guess on seven from 11.

090Um so three-year total of 697 320 does not include uh um 9 which um if you take a look at it um for Jaspersonson is 123,000 and for Premier is 106,000 is not included in this. When I say that Mr. [clears throat] Burgerer I mean it was included in the bid but not included in the totals to approve this tonight. Which one is it? And that's because it's my understanding you have an alternative option one through nine. >> I do. >> Yeah. So Glenn, what he's saying is if the numbers that are included that were actually Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> So it's the total on the bottom is not the total one through nine. It's it's right above it. Combined grand total light items one through nine. >> Mhm. >> That's what the total

091is. So Jaspersonson's number doesn't include the turf either. >> None of them do. Both of them don't. >> Okay. So this the very last box is cutting the grass only and whatever other things are in that scope of work. >> Okay. >> Are you asking us to only award one through eight? >> Yes. >> Because you intend to present an alternative option for the turf. >> Yes. Nine. >> And I know it's confusing and it was. Yes. Nine. We I will be giving you alternative option for number nine >> right here. This would be his combined one. >> Yeah. Okay. So, just to be clear what we're talking about because there is a motion on the table to accept the bid from Premiere. Um the motion would be to accept the bid for uh items

0921 through 8 from Premiere in the three-year contract amount of 697 $697,320 uh with the pricing as outlined in the bid. Um, and the competing bid of 866,000 from Jesperson is also only items 1 through eight, which is everything except the turf field, which came in everyone's awareness, at $866,000 for a three-year contract. So, there is a motion on the table. Is there further discussion on this question? Hearing none, uh, I will call the vote. All those in favor, please say I. >> I. Any opposed? So, Miss Cleo is opposed. Um, and that carries. So, you guys are good to go. Uh, and that is the last item on our agenda. So, I will hear a motion to adjurnn. Is there a sec? Seconded by Mr. Pum. All those in favor? Any opposed? We are

093adjourned at 7:39. Thank you. I wouldn't expect it to go too fast, but somebody has to leave. Um, call to order. Well, is anybody staying or going? [snorts] With all due respect, Gary, I think I'm out of here. All right. So, from the from the board, we have Mr. Putnham, Mr. Kiscoco, Miss Conway, and Mr. Ugalo. Mr. Lafreneri is here now. Both on policy. I know. I'm just I I'm getting confused. My is staying so I have to stay. Gary. Okay. And Mr. Burgerer >> and Miss Sterling. Okay. We're going to go. >> Can I get a motion approval agenda? >> You're the only one, John, that can answer. Is there a second? All those in favor? Can I have a motion for approval of minutes? All those in favor? Public participation. Members of the

094public and staff may bring to the committee's attention ideas or matters of concern related to all the duties and responsibilities of this committee. This committee will not allow comments regarding specific staff members or personal grievances. is the time for individual remarks will be aortioned according to the number of speakers and will be limited to five minutes per speaker unless extended by the chair. So, do we have anybody who wants to speak one at a time? >> Good evening. My name is Alicia Armstrong and I'm here on behalf of the Torington Warriors Football and Cheer League. Um in the um as well we have me representatives from Torington youth ser uh excuse me Torington youth soccer uh as well as little league. I'm here regarding our concerns um to the proposed changes for policy 1011 facility

095use fees. I want to start by saying that we understand the district is facing real financial pressures particularly related to facilities and custodial costs. We are not here to ignore the reality. We are here because we believe the solution being proposed creates a much larger problem for our community. The Warriors are more than a youth sports program. We are part of the foundation of this community. Youth sports are the pipeline to high school athletics. They are well ski where skills are developed, relationships begin, and pride in our schools and city is built. As Torington invests in new facilities and a renewed vision for the future, programs like ours should be seen as district partnered organizations not classified in the same status as outside users under activities of nonprofit organizations. Our cheer program has represented Torington

096on a national level competing in Florida. This upcoming September, we are co-hosting with the THS Raiders cheer team as for an AYC competition that will bring teams, families, and visitors into Torington directly supporting our local businesses as well as profit sharing with THS. Throughout our fall season, visiting teams travel here regularly, contributing to the local economy. Our organization also provides our athletes, majority of which are Torington public school students ways of free and reduced registration, free sports gear, and so often providing snacks, drinks, and meals to players who don't have consistent access to healthy meals. These are just a few examples of how we provide financial and inkind supports to TPS students. Beyond economics, there's a critical issue of health and wellness. We're in a living in a time where young people have fewer opportunities

097for physical activity. School day recess is limited. Physical education time is insufficient and obesity is a public health emergency. There are very few few free and lowcost options available to youth in our community. And programs like us help fill the gap. And we do this as a volunteer-driven organization. Nearly 50 members of this community donating our time. We maintain our own fields without town assistance. We fund our own equipment, insurance, and safety training. And the only thing we ask for is access to a safe indoor space for our cheerleaders because practicing stunts requires a protective surface that fields cannot provide. To give context to our financial reality, our registration fees go directly back into the program. Helmets, uniforms, mats, insurance, and safety certifications. This year alone, we are facing a $20,000 cost to replace helmets

098to remain in compliance with safety standards. We had also planned to replace our chair mats, but due to the uncertainty around facility fees, that investment is now on hold. Under the proposed change, the fee would be charging us $46 per weekn night hour with a three-hour minimum, even without us always needing three hours per night. Based on our schedule, we are looking at about $7,400 for the fall cheer season alone, not including the possibility of postseason like last year. Our spring season would add another 7,000, bringing our total annual facility fees paid to Torington Public Schools $15,000. As a nonprofit youth organization, our mission is to provide accessible athletic opportunities to all children in our community. Our current registration fee of 280 barely covers the cost. We already offer reduced fees and scholarships to families

099in need. And these new facility costs would require us raising fees to approximately 500 per participant. an increase that would place participation out of reach for many of the families. The budget committee meeting on March 11th in the minutes, it was noted that Mr. Wilson felt it might be necessary to reconsider the rules around facility use and optimize staffing. Mr. Pgola mentioned that adjust adjustments to the facility use form are being considered to better manage the workload. How about instead of proposing a facility use fee that most certainly would result in youth sports not being able to access TPS facilities, we truly explore how to reconsider the rules around facility use, such as, do we really need to pay a custodian overtime just because a sports group is in their building, even when they're already

100scheduled for a shift during that time frame? And if this is deemed necessary due to current contracts, is there a way to share that cost equally? If this proposed change is implemented, the Warriors would not be able to absorb these costs and would risk being unable to offer cheer. And where does that leave our students? We have some important questions we hope the policy committee will consider before making a decision. Is there clear data showing how much of the facility's budget deficit is specifically attributed to youth sports usage and custodial overtime? Have all others of the facility's budget been explored for reductions before placing this burden on youth sports? If youth sports are being identified as a primary contributor, why are some organizations designated as district partners while others who serve the same students are

101not? And lastly, we have used the Torington Public Schools gym consistently for many years with no increase in our usage. So why this year are youth sports responsible for rectifying the budget issue and not looking at other factors that have changed? If TPS truly values the well-being of our youth and community, the responsibility should be shared in the way that it reflects, not fall disproportionately on a few organizations simply because we don't have the resources to provide the financial or inind contributions at as high of a level as the organizations being written into the policy as district partnered or organizations. At the end of the day, yes, there is a cost to everything, but there is a far greater cost when kids lose access to programs that keep them active, connected, and supported. We urge

102the board to reconsider how youth organizations like ours are classified and to work collaboratively towards a solution that protects both the district's financial stability as well as opportunities for the children of Torington. Thank you for your time and consideration. >> Thank you Alicia. >> Carly next. >> Good evening. Can you hear me? My name is Karly Goodwin and I'm a parent and nurse in this community. Going off of last month's meeting, you stated that parents do have the right to opt out of digital learning. However, this option was never offered. So, parents need to be aware of this in the beginning of every school year moving forward. You also stated that if a parent decides to opt out, they will need to opt out of state testing as well. But according to the state policy,

103any child with a 504 or IEP is provided a paperbased option if requested. For those that do qualify, appropriate paperwork must be sent in from the school to the state by February. But again, this option for special ed students has never been presented. Now, this got me thinking. If a paperbased option does exist, then every child and parent should be given that right. And I've already met with senators to change this policy, allowing any student an equal opportunity to digital free state testing. When the next session begins, they will start making appropriate steps to change this at the state level. So my next question would be, what's the plan if every parent opts out? Mr. Eucalo took the time to print out just a few of the studies showing the side effects of these devices.

104I do hope you took the time to read them thoroughly and were able to see that these heavily outweigh any benefits for these kids' overall development. And I'm pretty sure I overheard at the last month's meeting the future discussion about lowering the passing grade so many of our students can graduate. Well, I vote a hard no on that because I'll be very honest with you right now. I graduated from this school, but not easily. I had to go to summer school to earn my diploma because I failed history. But that moment taught me one of the most important lessons in my life and instilled in me a work ethic that I'm not sure anything else would have at the time. I learned very quickly that nothing in life is handed to me and everything I

105have today I've worked extremely hard for. I don't think I would have such a driven personality if I was able to just pass on by. So lowering the passing grade to accommodate the scores is not the way to build the future we need. All of the evidence in these studies continue to prove this way of learning is not working. So this policy needs to be designed for the students and with their future in mind. It should have clear limitations and strict guidelines. Hearing that these devices are being used during indoor recess, free time, or even in specials like library, where the whole concept is books, proves that there's many areas that need to be re-evaluated. It should also state all options available for opting out so parents understand their full right. Paper and pencil should

106be required for any written assignments as kids are relying on AI for completing and autocorrect for punctuation. and YouTube should not be part of any child's curriculum on personalized computers. Now, another concern that parents have asked me to bring up is that a lot of these kids are not getting the required daily physical activity. In the wellness policy, it states that elementary students shall be provided a daily minimum of 20 minutes of physical activity. You cannot assume that every child is enrolled in an after-school sports activity or able to go home to a yard large enough for them to run around. School may be the only place that they are able to get this. And as written, half days and early dismissals are not excluded from this in the policy, and recess needs to be

107restructured into those days. Just recently, we had a 4-day stretch of half days where no child went outside. Movement for children is imperative not only for their health, but for their academics. The CDC did a study and showed schools that reduced recess had 20% worse attention scores and 30% more behaviors. So recess doesn't interrupt their learning. It has been proven to actually fuel it. Now, this isn't a matter of altering any policies because it's already written out very nicely. It lays more in the fact of implementing them. policies are put in place for a reason and you all volunteer your time to set these in place. I think it's only fair to you that the ones in position who oversee and enforce these policies start to be held accountable. As with the wellness committee, I

108still have not received any information. So, if possible, I'd like to propose a small change in how these meetings are run to provide a little bit more transparency and a lot less frustration. Right now, community comment has zero interaction, leaving no opportunity for responses. I believe by adding a quick section at the end to answer the top three questions asked would allow the public to feel heard and eliminate the prolonged process of change. I'm not sure if all of you have read recently, but interestingly enough, Los Angeles schools were just put on the map for being the first district to require screen time limits. Well, guess what? That could have been us putting Torington on the map if my initial meeting in February was not dismissed and was properly communicated to all members on the

109board. These discussions could have been happening a lot earlier. So, I would like to apologize for those who were unaware that if my recent approach to screens and nutrition came off rather aggressive, that was unfortunately the only way to get everyone's attention. But please know my frustration is not directed towards the board or any of the subcommittees. Your support in these changes have been seen and the parents in this district thank you for the concerns you show for our kids. A fact to follow. So I originally wrote something up. My name is Ian McDonald. I am Torington Yusaka president. I have three kids in the district. Professionally I'm a executive managing director for Accenture which is the largest technology consulting firm in the world. So about 750,000 employees. So what I want to talk to

110you about today is a screen time topic. Um like I said I wrote something up. I attended the AI session before this. I'm not going to tell you something that we've already talked about. So what I think will be valuable is to tell this group kind of what I'm seeing day in and day out across you know large corporations. We do work with thousands of companies all the top you know fortune 500. So what I want to talk about is where are we seeing gaps? If you think about kind of take a step back, we all know what happened when COVID happened, right? Everybody went full screens, full digital. You know, we did it for a reason. The pendulum swung completely one way. It's our, you know, job as a group here to get that

111back to a a middle ground. Um, you know, in the in the corporate world here, we're seeing a major gap. So all the new hires that are coming out of college are lacking a lot of important skills, right? They're lacking communication skills. They're lacking some critical thinking. Their EQ is is very low, right? We're we hire the brightest and best out of these. You know, we have partnerships with all the top schools. We're hiring their top people, but their EQ is down here even though their IQ is up here. So I was really encouraged by some of the dialogue I heard from, you know, the office of teaching and learning where we really want to focus on critical thinking, communication, collaboration, and I the only way we're going to be able to do that is

112by greatly reducing, if not eliminating a lot of this screen time. I'm a big proponent of the idea of having very dedicated sessions focus on purposeful technology use, but you know, we see it all over the place. Everybody's addicted to their phone. I was at dinner with the CFO and the CIO of a Fortune50 company. I had a consultant with me, right? You think this is a great audience, you should be able to interact. Every two minutes they're looking at their phone. They can't hold the dialogue. It's a major major gap. And you know, our company, since we have so many employees and work with so many clients, always looking forward, you know, what's going to happen in the next 10 years, nobody's going to be able to predict AI, right? I'll tell you right

113now, if somebody says they're an expert in AI, complete liar. Even the the we have partnerships with all of the AI corporations and they don't understand where they're going, right? I had lunch today with the CIO of a Fortune50 company that teaching them about what are we going to do with AI? There's there's so much uncertainty that if you if you look ahead at the job market, what's going to happen? the prediction a lot of the you know taskbased very menial tasks will be eliminated by AI but where it's gonna you know we need to push these kids in order to excel is critical thinking communications being able to hold those dialogues because those are the the layers of the job market that are not going to be eliminated right the other piece and we

114have this term that you'll hear in AI there always needs to be a human in the loop so we can't rely 100% on this and I think that's the problem and intertwining the AI into this because it's so intertwined and it's hard to eliminate it, right? AI, if we unleash this and we have no control and allow for excessive use, it's a dangerous tool and it's going to fail, right? We need to have very dedicated sessions. I think Glenn, you hit it spot on, completely aligned with that. We should have dedicated focused courses. AI does not belong in the school system. Just doesn't, right? Corporations and adults are struggling with how to utilize this. can't allow kids to utilize this, right? We we just can't. So, I feel very very strongly we need to push

115forward, start going back to the basics and teaching them the fundamentals because you need to be able to be in a meeting. You're not going to be able to go to co-pilot, oh, how do I how do I answer this? Right? You need to be able to think on your feet, be able to problem solve, and all of that right now being hidden behind a screen. a lot of those skills are dissipating and and we're seeing in the workforce, right? We we have new hires and we have to have specific dedicated courses on emotional intelligence, how to run meetings, how to, you know, have the conversation and and interact with different clients. So, we're seeing the gap and you know, I have three kids. I teach them this day in and day out, but not

116everybody is, you know, having those dialogues with their children. And it's and it's our job to make sure that we don't have this issue. appreciate everyone's time. You know, I'm available for any questions, any advice. I want to be involved. So, any ways that I could continue to be engaged? Definitely. Ed Corey is on in case anybody wants to know. He wanted me to let you know that. Okay. Good evening. My name is James Warren. I'm the president of Torington Little League. Uh and I'm here to address the facility usage fees. Uh and the proposal. Um the proposed facility use fees placed by the board of ed is placing a serious financial burden on our local little league and the families that we serve. Our families are 99% Torington residents who pay taxes in this

117town. Um, Little League is not a for-profit group. We're [clears throat] a community-based volunteer program focused on giving the children safe, affordable, uh, place where they can learn teamwork, discipline, and sportsmanship. Every dollar that we raise through registration costs goes directly back into our program. Uh, we have to fund uniforms, equipment, field, maintenance, insurance, uh, and we do our very best to keep our registration fees as low as possible. Our highest registration fee is $180. Um, and compared to most groups for Little League, that's very low. Uh, but we're we're proud to be able to offer what we are. But with these new fees, you know, we're we're at a point where we have to find out an alternative. Uh, and unfortunately, that may come down to charging the residents of our town additional fees.

118Um this new proposal to charge overtime fees for field use or uh for the gymnasiums uh it might s might sound reasonable on paper but in practice is a significant challenge to our youth organization. Uh baseball's an outdoor sport but this year we look to give the kids a um an alternative uh start winter practices earlier. You know get them indoors just as most sports do. um you know they tried to offer alternatives throughout the year. So a minimum uh overtime charge that each um each school or field might uh incur um is going to end up costing us additional thousands of dollars uh that we're currently unexpecting and uh just simply can't afford. Um in addition to our uh field access, our league also depends on the use of um these gyms. Um they're

119critical for keeping the kids active, engaged, connected to uh positive community organizations year round. Uh access to the school gyms allows us to continue to serve our players when our fields are unusable. Um this year was great. We were able to go all the way up until um about the middle of March. So we were able to get an early jump on the season. If anybody here knows the uh Torington intermediate complex, uh that land is very swampy, poor drainage. Even something as light as an hour of rain will make the next day or two unplayable. Uh so it it's great that we have an alternative to use these gems. Um unfortunately, the cost they don't simply disappear. uh they eventually get passed down um like I said through registration fees or you know it

120might prevent us from exploring other opportunities. Uh this year as a league we're going to the yard goats. Um something that we we're very excited to offer outside of just practice and games. Uh building a strong community memories that kids can have for lifetime. Uh something that I'm taking personal as an initiative for this year. Uh but with increased fees, we may not be able to offer these alternatives throughout the next few years. Um we ask that the board recognize that youth services uh like our organizations um we have soccer here, we have football um and chair um recognize that we're partners and we are not customers. Um you know, we understand the school faces financial burden uh and the money does have to come from somewhere. So, we're asking if we can come up

121with a strategic resolution uh something that would create a stronger relationship between the organizations that service the kids and the schools uh that provide a safe learning environment. Thank you for your time. Say next. Oh. Oh, chief Good evening. Uh my name is Chris Medic. I um am the vice president of the 23 Police Activities League. Prior to that, I was the executive director for six years. And prior to that, I was a police officer for 36 years in Torington and I retired as deputy police chief. I've been involved in PAL since 1983 when it first began. Uh I was one of four officers that began the program and I'm very proud of what we accomplish with Torington Pal. Um Torington Pal is kind of in a unique position. We're a natural We have a

12212-week program that's happening here at the high school. They meet every two weeks and we call it basketball boot camp. These are young boys that with the proper guidance could end up being basketball players here at Torington High School. Sometimes they need to tweak attitudes and things like that. But the important thing that we talk to, and I think Ian hit on it, was being able to talk to people. Like it's not just basketball. you know, the kids got to come in and address everybody by name, shake hands, and, you know, we talk to them about their vision and, you know, where they want to be in a few years. And I think these programs really help. Um, we are affiliated with the police department. Um, from time to time, we have police officers who

123come to our different events. Um, they have offered counseling and help to families that were in need of help and just didn't know where to turn. Um, I really appreciate what Torington Public Schools allows us to do here. Um, I think it's important, and I'll be honest, I think it's important that all these agencies have an opportunity to be in the schools because at the end of the day, it's for the kids, right? I mean, it's for the kids and um that's it. Anybody have any questions or Oh, okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time. So, just for the people here in facilities, we only have two of us here, so we can't make a decision tonight. No, I I know, but we're going to go So, we're going to be going to

124policy number 101 next, which is going to be a discussion on, you know, use of school facilities. I don't know what the intention was with facilities tonight, but we can discuss it, but we just can't vote, right, John? We can't vote. >> Oh, we got to get the policy. We have to get the screens, too, though. Facilities needs to go over this. This has been a this has been a discussion. Oh, okay. Well, my apologies if if you are allowed to do it with the alternate as well as because you're only a three- member committee, but if you wish for facilities committee to review this in greater detail and bring it back to policy, that's a recommendation that you could make. >> I'm going to ask the people that came tonight that were involved in

125the facilities if they want to attack it tonight. Were you in a position to do that or meaning those two, not us? But >> it's going to be a trifecta. I'm gonna really booger this up right now. Or is it a budget thing? [laughter] >> I mean, you guys want to pass the pass the cart there? >> No, not really passed in the car, but I think the thing the big decision is >> what's the reason for the change? It's primarily it's overtime. Well, I can tell you that. I mean, this this came about. First of all, >> I can speak for myself. I can definitely speak for Mr. Pragola. I mean, I'm a 20-year coach myself. I support youth organizations. I've actually worked with the football to get them on the field this spring

126and this year, which I thought was a great thing that we could do this year. Um, I know Chris in the back. I know, you know, he does great things. And obviously, I know soccer and I know little league as well. I'm a former baseball coach. I don't admit that too much anymore but um you know the issue came about from the budget concerns of why is you know the facility's overtime always so much and you know while we can't directly answer public comment some people in their public comment brought up they understand that it is a contractual obligation and it is because in certain contracts they get paid for certain hours so while you know we want to be all-incclusive and I agree and the reason it came about for a change was that

127the board was concerned with overtime for custodians. Asked Dean to look at it and myself to say where where can we see something? Because if we're not getting money back from people utilizing our facilities, that's an area, right? That's one area. Now, the the issue on the table for the board is, you know, if the organizations, and I heard from several people that they're they're willing to try to contribute something because they understand the the costs are there. And I think you know the last uh person said it best that you know there are opportunities for these other organizations to offer something back to our students because it is our students who you're benefiting. Um you know then it becomes a board level decision but I want the board to be aware as well. So

128if dean's overtime goes up until we change some contractual language I don't want the board to to necessarily say dean what are you doing right and I think this is an answer to what are you doing it's a possible solution. It is not the solution. I think if we want to be all-incclusive and all-encompassing and we want our community partners to stay community partners with us, you know, and maybe offer more scholarships or maybe offer more to the district or maybe offer something for the custo whatever it may be and and you know, then I think that is an amicable solution to the problem where we show that our support for our community members with that over 80%. Let's, you know, I don't want to sway from that because I don't want organizations to come

129in and have only 5% of students from Torington and, you know, we're footing the bill for 95% of outsiders. That, that's not the purpose. And I didn't hear anyone say that this evening, but I just want to be clear in my comments. But I think if that's the board's pleasure, I think that's something that is doable and amicable to the community partners. But I want everyone to be understand where this came from. And I appreciate your question, Mr. Burgerer. That's where this came from. Dean was given the homework. Dean did the homework. And this is the assignment and the solution that he came not done on AI by the way Mr. Kisco. This was all through Dean. So I think we want to be very you know appreciative of the work and the time and

130the effort that he put in but understanding you know if we want to go this route where we do support our community members and our community partners who do have 80% of our students then I think that is a possible solution where they can offer something back to in the terms of either more scholarships or you know more you know gifts or something to the to the students whatever it may be but I think that's an amicable solution to remain all-incclusive and to remain solid with our community partners. That's my position on this policy. C >> can I just add also, boss, that this came about also because of this new complex. So in here, you're going to see a lot of things that have to deal with this place that we didn't have to

131deal with the turf and the auditorium and the specialists we need to run the auditorium and do we want um you know, do we want supervision on the turf? There's a there's a lot of questions that this came from, not just the financial end of it. Middle of working on it again, but then that came up and we started looking at a little closer and say, "All right, so you'll see the spreadsheet on here that's got some stuff that still has to be answered." So, I I don't expect an answer tonight. Again, you're asking to vote on it. I still think it's got to be tweaked and talked about to be honest with you because there's a lot of stuff on here that I we have to continue to have conversations about because there's there's

132a lot of unknown stuff here. So, it's kind of twofold. >> It is. >> Now, I appreciate that Mr. Pgola did exactly what he was asked to do and did it well. And thank you. But now it's up to the board, probably this committee, but probably not this meeting to look at these exact numbers and say, "Okay, we want to help some groups who really aren't by the raw numbers being helped by this policy." So I I would just suggest moving this to the next uh meeting and giving everyone a chance to uh speak among ourselves and to Mr. Pgola and Mr. Wilson. by doing that again, you know, tweaking and changing things also. Um because I did notice a few things in here that we probably a lot of the wording in here is

133is based on sports, you know, teams, um rosters, things of that nature instead of maybe participants or registration. So things like that I've noticed where you know what, again, we're talking about the whole district using all the facilities and the new stuff. So there may be some tweaking in there, too. and uh like there was here. So, I just want to add that, too. >> Thank you. Ed's been texting me first. Let me go have you go first. All right, Jason, then I'll go to you. >> Ed, you on? >> Yeah. Thank you. Um so I just think um with this facilities use policy you know my humble opinion uh is that you know if a group is Torington based or serves Torington students you know we really ought to be as permissive as possible

134I understand the budgetary and cost implications but you know at the same time the community owns these buildings right so they've already paid for them they're paying for the capital upkeep and the reimburseable projects. Um, so that's kind of my angle here. Like if a group is out of town or for profit or something, sure, I wouldn't even just limit to students only because in many cases we are the only institution in the community which may be able to offer space to somebody. So I think about the Torington Symphony Orchestra, for example, which we had a lot of back and forth with. Um, and they're maybe not serving tons and tons of Torington kids, but um, you know, they uh, they are still serving the community. Um, so that's kind of my take overall. Now,

135in terms of like structure and direction, the only thought I have is we're going to punt this out a little bit. Um, which is fine, is just I would ask that we consider holding off on bills, right? Because if if we don't know if the policy is going to change, but we have a strong sense that it might. I don't want to send somebody a bill and scare them, have them pay it, and then it turns out they didn't actually owe it. That's all. >> Just for clarification, we have not done any of that. >> Right. Of course. I just, you know, sorry, I just wanted to make it in throw it in the air. I'm not accusing you of anything. just putting it in the air for for the public, for the organizations who

136are interested that you know if we're going to tweak this policy, then you know we're we should hold off on charging you until we figure it out. That's all. >> Okay, Jason, quick. Sorry. >> That's right. Just kind of being new to this policy and and the discussion that's happened. Um, other than the increase in some fees, what is I'm assuming that's the the what the public has has come is about the increase in some of the fees, but there is the stipulation that there's a reduction a possible reduction and that's not what fees are on this this table, right? So, they would still be eligible for uh Right. Isn't it that there's >> Yeah. Doesn't it say something about like if they're they're 80% plus a 501c? >> So the only thing the only

137thing that was in the policy is that they would be paying for custodial fees. They wouldn't be be paying paying for the facility fees. If you're an forprofit, you'll be paying facility fees, custodial fees, other fees, whether it's taxes, whatever we have in there. I think it's licensed. you would be paying for the facility fees to cover the cost of the custodians, not for the facility. >> The the custodial hourly >> the custodial hourly and and per contractor is a minimum, >> right? >> Um and that's per contract. So that's really nothing we can negotiate at this point. >> Okay. So So Cal, Little League, and all them currently, they're not paying for any of that. This new thing would give them the hourly for custodial or it' be an increase in what they're paying

138for the hourly for custodial is my understanding. >> Yes, you lost me on that. I'll say yes cuz Sue said yes. >> Okay. And category two is the reduction, but they're saying the reduction is only for the facility fees, not for the contractual hours or no rental fee or >> if you Okay. Yeah. If you look at page eight of 20. So, are they are they missing the 501c? Is that No. Oh, >> okay. >> Well, we're we have more time on this. We have more time coming up. >> I know we have something else. >> I'm as confused as you are. >> It's going to take a lot more time to discuss and I just wanted a little bit. >> That's the bullet you're referring to though. >> Yeah. >> And Jeff has a

139quick one and then we'll push it till the next one. >> So, I believe the way this occurred last time two or three years ago is this started in facility. Facility basically vetted out what they thought the costs were going to be. They worked with budget to determine what the overtime costs were and we put together the fee structure. So the fee structure for the facility use and custodial is really a a facility technology committee decision. Who and who qualifies and what we want to make nonprofit or who who is subject to such fees is the policy side. So in my opinion this should probably find its way into the facility budget meeting our next meeting for what it actually costs us. what you think what because we have to add some things certain certain

140fields now exist that never did. So there probably needs to be a new structure for this. We could bring the findings back to policy at their next meeting and really kind of hammer this out as to support the local organizations or organizations that would have to pay for it. I do believe according to the last time we did this, it needs to start there and finish in policy. I agree that we need to give let the community have more more access with with more support, but we do need to see what you're willing to accept. So, let's come back again and decide what we're willing to give back. And that's going to be every up to everybody, you know, if they're going to come for free, if they're not going to come for free, who

141can come, who can't come. So, we're going to move on. So, we're going to table it for now and and try to I guess improve upon it. >> Is that what we're saying? That's what I'm saying. How's that sound? >> Sounds good. >> Yeah. The current current policy is in place. >> You're still running under the current policy which would these organizations would not incur any increases at this time. [clears throat] >> All right. On to screens. Although the same thing tonight with screens, I'm going to pass this out. We don't have a draft yet. We met with our attorneys. It's very limited. Um it takes more discussion. This is something that other instit schools have instituted or districts. I I should say it's not the beall endall. It's just something that outlines really reflects

142all the concerns of the parents that have come in. reflects what's coming down the pike from a legal standpoint, what parents are going to look for, what we should probably consider. Um, you know, based on grade, based on um age, based on um access to computers. It does talk about carts and it talks about a computer lab. Um but at the same time it talks about what we need to do to protect the children and to [clears throat] >> it's something to look at as one of the few draft policies that have been implemented that you can see what we've been talking about behind the scenes >> from where >> it says it on the you have to pull it back. It's an organization unless she took it off. >> Okay. It it It's something

143that we've been talking about behind the scenes and it's something that we're looking at >> to implement in pieces. >> In the packet [snorts] there is a draft policy. >> Read the top. It's a model safe school. The lawyers >> school technology act. We met with the lawyers tonight about what her legal opinion would be on what we can do with a policy like this relative to the students rights, maybe the union rights, access to computers, access to AI, but it was very limited. She gave us a draft of what we legally can do and we have to go forward with what we think we can legally do over the next couple months. And uh >> I'm just Gary, I'm just confused though because you said that this was from a school. >> No, other

144school. I said other schools are using it. >> Other schools are using this and this came from the lawyer. >> no. >> What's in the packet came from the lawyer. >> This draft policy in the packet is from the lawyer. This is what other schools are using. >> So it it other schools all over the country are drafting their own. But there are some standards. >> I just need clarification to be able to make >> what the lawyer gave us didn't tell us any didn't tell us anything. So we didn't want to waste tonight. Um so over the next we're going to have have to have another meeting. So, let's just look forward to the next meeting, take a look at that, go through it. We're going to be discussing behind the scenes what we

145discussed with the lawyer today. Um, everybody was in the room and there's a lot of things to consider and uh we're I will tell you from a policy It still is once a while I think was Rachel was talking about screens and carts that will be limited in terms of usage but that's just one honestly I gave you packets looked at the packets in the past it's based on those things and the board will discuss those things it's it's based on current numbers national standards lawsuits things like YouTube being sued. It's one of the probably one of the things I have to come out of the school because of the criminal lawsuits and impact that YouTube has on on legal our legal ability to actually have in the classroom. But it's complicated, but it should

146be simple as we face it. May not be done. But anyway, I think we should wait until next video. I can talk to you. I'll talk to a >> I just make one comment because it's been mentioned several times this evening in both the first AI in this um computer labs. We don't have any space for them. I don't know where we're going to put computer labs. There's no space in this building. And talking to the other space in those I can answer that simply. Let's tell the tax we can't save our children. We can't find I'll answer it though. We're gonna tell everybody in this room and the and anybody else, we're going to find a way to make it work. That's I You're not saying that. I understand that. We're going to find

147and we may use Ian as a as a consultant um to talk about how they would do it, but we we can't ignore computer labs and we we have to find a way. You're right. And and I Well, Jeff can help us, too. Um it's the only way to protect the kids fully. Nobody can argue that having them in every room with every teacher with a computer is good for the children. It's just not. And you can find me a study that shows it. Tell me where a teacher can't do a better job than a computer. I may go along with you. You're a great teacher. I understand that. But there's no evidence to support it. And parents don't want it. So, but we're it's going to be a compromise. It is. And and Mr.

148and Gavin tonight made some good points and so did Mr. Burgerer and Mr. Mr. Putnham. Um, it's going to be hard, but we'll find room for computer rooms. Promise you you like computer rooms. I heard [laughter] we we'll find them. I know you didn't, but we'll find them. Um, I think that's No, it's not. Is it? Oh, where is this? I think that's it for tonight. Comments for the good of the order. Mr. Sterling, the good of the order. >> I have nothing to say. >> Thank you, Jason. >> All set. >> Thank you, Mr. Putnham. Mr. Burgerer, Cisco, ready to go all the way down the line because everybody wants to go. Anybody else? Anybody else? Thank you very much. >> Great meeting. >> Motion for dismissal. [laughter] Second. All in favor? Bye.