001Oh, I'm here. Gabby's here. Ash here. Donna's here. Bobby's here. Uh, Wilson just made his appearance. So, Uh, John is here. Ellen is here. Uh, David is here. Mike Z is here. John Jenny is here. Dean is here. Joe is here. And I think Robin could be on Zoom and Kent could be on Zoom. Okay. Okay, I have a motion >> on Zoom. Okay. Thank you, Robin. Uh, do I have a motion to uh approve the agenda? We have Pat. Second? Second. Second, John. Any changes? Ed, can I ask you a question? Yeah. Another thing about the the grant reimbursement. Yeah. Can we do what I think on that? Yeah, I don't think so. Okay. We can discuss that in executive Yeah. Is it an exception like the other ones or you think we can
002do it I'm going to do it in executive session. Okay. All right. All right. Sorry. You can continue. All in favor? I. I. Any opposed? Uh, who will approve the minutes? Who closed? I made a motion to close. >> [laughter] >> I have a motion to approve. John. Second? Second, Pat. Any changes? Discussion? All in favor? I. Any opposed? Okay. Any public participation? Mike, you're up. Good morning. >> [clears throat] >> Hi, everybody. Um, I'll kind of run you through an overview of what's been going on this week. Because of spring break, we've been able to get in the building and take care of a lot of different punch list items and other work that had to wait. Um, most of the work is so busy, so this was a great week to do it.
003Um, if you guys recall about the elevator change order we discussed last week, um, they've been on site, all the contractors associated with that change have been on site this week. Um, the elevator programming component and introducing the card reader within the elevator is now completely operational. I spoke with Rachel yesterday and mentioned that she'll have to reprogram some of the, um, you know, access control cards for different access types, you know, and and and such. Um, the added door hardware, the mag locks, um, all those have been installed and are operational. Um, Firetech was here today. They're a programmer of of Net Services who's our, you know, security and access control contractor, fire alarm. Um, so they're in there tying in the fire alarm, um, relays to those devices, making sure they drop out
004in the event of a fire alarm. Um, there are also buttons inside the fire alarm panels that de-energize those mag locks in the event that you guys, you know, need to do that. There's also overrides on the on the key switches, which I reviewed with Dean earlier. Um, the generally, the elevators is 98% complete. We're just working out some some kinks with access control programming and and elevator programming, but we're largely in good shape for when the students return on Monday. Um, roofing, the roofing punch list, uh, the roofer has been here this week, um, addressing punch list and roof repairs. All that's been ongoing this week. Um, you know, we intend to to keep going tomorrow and we'll also be there on Saturday uh, to to near completion. Um, I think we'll need maybe
005one Saturday, two at the most to to finish those up, so the manufacturer, GAF, um, can come out and and walk the roofs in early May to generate that final warranty. Um, so they've made a lot of good progress, which is good. Um, punch list, you know, again, more progress being made this week, various different contractors coming in and completing items that weren't able to be completed before. Um, we're down to seven punch list items on the inside of the building and the remaining 31 items related to the punch list are all, you know, exterior driven, uh, which is currently being worked on and uh, throughout this week and also as the field progress. Um, switching to balancing, we provided the final balancing report to the design team and the commissioning agent for review, I
006believe, about a week, week and a half ago. Um, we've got some initial comments back and and that dialogue is kind of ongoing. Um, but we're happy to have seen the final report and and try to finalize these systems check out, uh, with IES, the commissioning agent. Can I go back to the roof? Sure. Um, so, is I saw a lot of foam but it would be installed and there was quite a bit of material that was >> in the parking lot. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, is it when they open [clears throat] it up, is it what you expected? Is it is it >> It's it's better than we expected. Uh, you know, we expected it to be a little bit moist at the cover board and trickled down a little bit into the insulation
007and and even in the worst area that we thought we were going to have to chasing insulation down to the deck. We didn't encounter anything. No water intrusion issues and it was reviewed with the roofing manufacturer and it satisfies their requirements and standards and So, the roof manufacturer was here? Yep. They were here on Tuesday. Okay. Tuesday. So, I mean that's how that and then the other issue were the uh the rubber itself, right? Right. Most Most of the work that we're doing up there is is through construction, you know, holes got into the roof just because of the work that needed to happen up on the roof. Um and we ended up just patching, you know, too many holes, which made, you know, the roofing manufacturer uncomfortable. So, we're really just cutting out squares
008of membrane and just re-gluing it back. Which is the least invasive part of it, which is good. But, generally, it's been successful. Okay. Um Switching over to the fields, um I believe last month field turf was there for a couple days and they were just kind of getting started. Um obviously, since then, you know, they finished up about a, you know, 2 weeks ago, week and a half ago. Um so, the the turf looks great. That it's groomed and you can see all the lines in it. Looks great. Um you know, we're tracking well to turn over the baseball fields towards the end of the month. Um you know, we're calling it once everything's been completed, we're going to generate a punch list and we're going to ask SLAM to to issue the certificate of
009substantial completion. Um so, that the field's going to be playable. Um obviously, we're going to keep pulling that date back as we, you know, encounter more things. Um you know, you'll notice that we poured the dugout pads today along the third baseline, tricky or around the first baseline. Uh we weren't able to pour it along the third baseline because we're still trying to finish that HD concrete, the heavy thicker section of concrete around that outbuilding area. But, the way the mixer has to pull into the job, it's such a tight corridor that we're literally placing and working our way out in the back. So, as they, you know, get to the dugout right here, you know, they're pouring concrete, coming back, and then once the mixer's out of the way, they'll be able to form
010that dugout pad and then they'll be able to get the enclosure installed. Um you know, we'll have the fence crew back tomorrow to start addressing some of the perimeter fencing around the baseball field, everything that was left out um that needed to be left out to facilitate access for all the other trades. Um so, you know, we feel pretty good about the the sequence of activities in that field and, you know, I feel like we're tracking pretty good. Um you know, for the softball field, you know, a lot of work's been going on. Um we're trying to again continue sidewalks around the field so there's not an issue with access later on when Liberty Landscaping comes back to do all the anchor curbing around the perimeter of the varsity baseball field. Um Eagle Fence was
011here on Monday. They started to erect all the um backstop posts. So, all those are now standing up and poured concrete yesterday and today. Um so, we'll [clears throat] let that cure. Um and, you know, generally, we're on track for, you know, >> [clears throat] >> late July of synthetic turf completion of that field. But, again, it's another instance where we have to, you know, work our way out and really just spread topsoil on our way out and then make sure we connect the uh the raceway, electrical raceway that's going to, you know, get the gate communicating again. Um And so, really, that work's going to kind of drag a couple weeks past um late July. But, generally, in first couple weeks of August, we're going to be in in good shape to be totally
012out of your hair and Westlake to give us another certificate of substantial completion. Um Also, you did some other temporary fence tweaks, right, to try to allow a little more viewing access for things like the Yep. around >> courts and Yep. Around the outbuilding, it's, you know, we're still trying to finish the concrete where that landing strip is, as I like to call it. Um and we noticed that we had a little bit of some fence issues because there were some benches set up for for, you know, parents to watch their kids play tennis. Um so, we ended up adding some extra snow fencing and kind of secured the area a little bit better so people weren't entering into the the construction area. Just making life a little bit easier for people. Are you Are
013you um When's our open house? 25th. 25th. I'm just thinking areas where we can get to and make sure that we can, you know, utilize get to most of these spots. And the 25th, so we got a couple weeks for that anyway. Yeah, it's next next Saturday. >> yeah, you you mentioned the snow fencing and I'm thinking, you know, where you can go in and out. I'm sure people are going to want to walk and see this. Yeah. And, you know, that thing about the next area is they've got some more work left. Like I said, that that HD concrete that comes down to the outbuilding, they've got a little more to finish, but then that that whole whatever the landing strip, you know, we can you know, open it up and let you >>
014try to, you know, instead of these big blocks of, "Okay, everything's ready." If If we can get that landing strip to the point where parents can, you know, watch tennis matches or things along that, we'll They just have >> of the fence is movable so that we can They just have to pull one more section of that. Well, we just got to continue the sewer around there. Just got to go like three more feet. But, you know, we saw today they did They have one more Um but again, you know, if we want to walk, you know, that Wednesday before that ribbon cutting just to make sure all the fencing and stuff is up to snuff and make sure people aren't going where they don't need to be going and, you know, we're certainly here
015to help do that effort. So. Hey, Mike, give an update on the landscaping when they're going to be back, all right? Uh good point. Um on Monday, our landscaper will be back. If you notice, if you're in the area lately, we actually dug out the rest We have 70 ft of extra retaining wall to build. Um so, they're going to focus on that and then they're also focus on uh all the other areas that they need to touch up throughout the high school that were turned over in in January, you know, weeding, um re-seeding where they need to, so let's see if things like that. So. Okay. So, you know, there's a lot of washout. Yeah. And like that bank when you're coming in like along the middle school, the idea is to get all
016that dressed and and done. Yeah, that I mean that that was never I mean, I'm talking about areas, especially on the high school side, that you'll see some washout and things of that nature. So, a lot of attention's got to be going into that. So, that's happening. He's starting on Monday. >> Monday. Yep. And he's But, he's starting with your wall on Monday or is he hitting the grounds? He's doing both. Okay. So, he's going to hit the grounds on Monday. And then does he have a plan? See you then. I shared that landscaping plan with you with the anticipated goals for turnover and stuff like that to get through the bidding process. Yeah. I guess just And give that a look. If there's something that's not on that that you know about that doesn't
017look right, would you just Yeah, you know, I mean, speaking of that, I I I really I I I don't know when it's ours. When is When is it my responsibility? When is that going to happen? That's that's part of the in the plan that we had anticipated goals for when they, you know, they put in that work starting on Monday, you know, we're the goal is to get that growing for, you know, the whole the rest of the month of April and then at the end of May and make sure we'll get SLAM out there towards the end of May to to walk it with you, walk it with Mario, walk it with SLAM and our landscape architect uh to make sure everybody's comfortable with the way that it looks for us to finally,
018you know, relieve that to you. So, you're saying by the end of May it's my responsibility. That's my goal. For sure, it's ours. I'm trying to break provided that provided that it's been deemed accepted. And again, this is this is the parts These are the parts that were done last year. So, anything that's getting done this spring now, when will that be mine? Like the fields you're saying? Well, the bank that you're putting in, you have grass growing on the bank, the stuff you haven't planted yet, stuff that you're going to be not fixing now, installing now. >> We're just installing. It's It's not until it's accepted. It really Right. It depends on how well it establishes in the spring planting season. You know, if it doesn't establish, it's not going to get accepted. You
019know, and to that point, it's going to have to get accepted into the fall. Cuz it's just going to be so hot during July and August. It's not going to be growing as well. Yeah, when we spray the spray, the last stuff that we that we plant when we're working our way out is it's not in the ideal time for planting. We know that. So, they're going to have to come back in the fall. And that's really such a small portion of the entire complex. I'm really thinking 75% of the complex, what we turned over in, you know, January of 2025, that's really the goal, you know, the Winthrop Street parking lot, the Prouty Court parking lot, all around the backside of the building, Route 8. Those are the areas that we turned over in
020May, end of May. You know, the middle school parking lot You said January 2025? Well, this isn't a big deal. When they turn over the those areas in January 2025, when we could seed it in a few weeks. Okay. May I May I please? You may. Um the stuff that you sprayed, I think it was November, Right. >> is that is it going to be completely re- Well, re-topsoiled where it's washed out and re-sprayed and and be ready by May? That's my goal. >> that's a pipe dream. But, we could we'll see, I guess. >> [clears throat] >> I don't know how that could possibly happen. It's grass. It depends on the weather. If you get good grass-growing weather, it's going to happen. Yeah. If you have horrible weather, it's not going to happen. I
021can't put a bubble over the property. All right. Well, I I think the 75% is exaggerated, but it's a wait and see type of thing. Yeah. I guess within a couple of weeks, we'll be able to get a better idea. Right. If it doesn't grow, it's not going to be accepted. So, if it starts popping, we'll see. Yeah. We'll be there and be there and now I'll be there and it's not acceptable. And we also talked about the javelin. Are you guys using the javelin area right now? Yeah. You are. That area that has not been accepted, but again, something that, you know, we're willing to work with you and and re-seed it in the fall, you know, after that sport's over with, you know, just so you guys can play on it even though
022it's not accepted. Again, the landscaper and I had a talk and, you know, he's going to make that a good good thing happen. And that's on that plan, too, right? And that's on that plan. Hey, anything else? John, just John sent me his latest this this So, tomorrow morning, I will uh uh send it out to everybody. Just got it this afternoon. Good job. >> Uh good afternoon. Other than the punch list work that's been happening in the field, it's been quiet on the testing and inspection front. Um there have been no uh test reports or lab reports done. The one field report that I just referred to was our field report 136, came out today from our site visit today. Um we're down to 10 items, eight of which are on the punch uh
023nine of which are on the punch list already, and they're being tracked. Um and the balance are related to the ongoing uh site work. There was one submittal that Mike referred to. That's the uh the the startup and the uh the balancing report for hydronics and for air for the building. It's going through CDEs for their review. Um I know you There's been a dialogue, but they have It hasn't come back yet with formal comments. And hopefully it'll come back and the comments will be minor, um and they can address those. So, did we did we come to any um uh ideas as far as I know I know we said that we can't the system doesn't allow us to put humidity in the air. But then we talked about possibly checking what our the
024minimum code was for fresh air, that maybe we can damp it out more so that we're so that we're you know, not bringing in such cold dry air in the sum- in the wintertime and in those conditions. Any Uh I I know Slam was going to look into what the I believe Slam was going to look into what the parameters were, the design parameters. Okay. I have not looked into to that, but um I can see what the design requirements were. Mike, have you You haven't heard anything from them? I have not heard anything, and I did ask MJ Daley that, too. I did not get back, so. Hey John, just send me a note and I'll get in touch with him also. That's what has to be done. Just send me a note. That
025was especially for the gymnasium area of the school, right? >> Right, yeah. Because of that and the floor, right? >> Right. And I think Right, we talked about there's a sequence of operations that it's operating under now. Can that sequence of operations be altered when the conditions are such to try to do whatever we can to not bring all the moisture in? dryer building, right? I think that's what we And those those units down there perform differently. They're set up differently than the balance of the building. They air and millers, they handle the Yeah, should should there be like two different areas we're trying to handle? The gymnasium is one and classrooms would be Correct. a completely different probably approach. They don't You don't know what the auditorium's got as far as the AHU that
026can Yeah. Yeah, I don't I don't think that the I don't know that's Well, do you think that there's a concern with the rest of the building? Yeah. You do Okay. As far as it being too dry, I mean Yeah, definitely. Uh so we may we may have to revisit that with Slam and see Yes, I I think I know our focused a lot of time on the gymnasium. I don't know if we necessarily emphasized enough that there was a similar question about the rest of the building, so I think we'll have to just revisit that and let them know there's a parallel path they've got to take a look at that. Yeah, I mean I mean all the trending data should be there. I just to to I mean if you look in the
027deepest part of winters and if you look at these classrooms what the relative humidity was in there, you know, it's low. It's [clears throat] low. Um wasn't looked today, but it It was getting looked at. >> [laughter] >> It was pretty high yesterday. We fixed that one. Um Um the other question I had was did we come up with a solution for this water possibly getting into our filters um in the turns for these VAVs? Uh not yet. Still kind of an ongoing active conversation with the design team and with MJ Daley. Okay. Um you know, but we again did replace a bunch of filters in the high school, and I got delivered a bunch of filters yesterday for to finish off the >> I just want to make sure it doesn't that you know,
028I replacing the filters is not the fix, right? No, no, it's not. Definitely not. I talked to Mike about this today, and and I I did some testing of the the velocity of air going into the units today, and I want to talk to Slam about it and find out what the units are designed to perform at. Yeah, um there were some velocities that were high, and maybe the units are fine with the high velocities like that. Um most of the units were fine, but there was there was one unit in particular that the velocities were And we have a mark, Mikey, right? When when Jack went up there exactly which units we went into that you you found the to correlate with velocity, so There are also and and this is another conversation I'll
029have with Slam. There are also um non-organic filters that can be used. Maybe if that's if that's the issue, a different type of filter can be used, but let me talk to Slam and MJ Daley and Right. And I think Right, we tried to I think we have MJ Daley looking into that as far as filter options as well. I think he said that those were okay for them to get wet, but is there a filter that might be a better selection that inevitably may or may not get wet, so. But we'll start with the velocity part. Yeah, let's stay with the velocity. There's not a filter that's supposed to get wet. There's some that might they might not. They're resistive to to being in wet conditions. They're efficient. Again, when you get to that
030dew point where it's actually water, it's a different story than high humidity, so. And we're talking rainwater getting up there. Um I had something else. Oh, as far as that goes, um in the gym floor, um where did we stand as far as we were going to do the bounce test and Yep. I did three types of current, and they are getting their hands on that testing mechanism. It was on another job, and hoping to have it later later this week week early next week, and I'll reach out to you to see what the best day is to to do that deflection test in that one area. >> Deflection test, yeah. Um Okay. All right, so All the repairs were completed and Yeah, so all the chips were were completed. That piece was put back,
031right? The one from one piece that they temporarily would fill that's still temporarily in the fashion that we're working on the maintenance cost in in the background here to when they come to do that, then they'll be able to rip out that one last piece and reseal the floor and then extend your warranty for that year. Okay. Dean, do we have relative humidity data from the other schools from over the winter? Just No. To kind of get any of the BMS kept track of it so you could see if the high school is just way drier than the other schools. You know, if it's if we're saying the outside air was so dry and that was the cause, you would see the exact same complaint more or less in our other school buildings. >> Well,
032you have different systems. True. You have windows. You have older systems. You might have more hydronics than you do here. This is You have a lot of air moving in this building, so Yeah, I was thinking TIS. TIS is not a whole lot of hydronics, right? Yeah, I know. It is. It It's a big difference. And so I don't I don't I don't I don't have that data to come back and say. Okay. So, that would be just a thought. Maybe That would be nice. That's a thought. Anything else, gentlemen? Yes, sir. Uh the application and certificate of payment this month uh $86,464.62. Have a motion to approve. Fast. Second. Second. Second. Who's that, Kathy? Any discussion? All in favor? I. Opposed? You're up. >> [clears throat] >> Anything else? Yep. Only got seven PCOs
033this month. Sorry. Um PCO 754 is in order cost of $42,714. The high school occupied in January of 2025. Um you know, prior to that, we realized that the north spaces of area G, um which are some storage rooms off in the north side of the gym, and also the middle school health classroom didn't work going to have fresh air at the start of school, which is obviously violate code. Um you know, so the reason that we introduced the temporary HVAC unit to serve fresh air to those rooms um is that the permanent lines uh you know, feeding those rooms were fed from the HRV unit, which lives in area H and was not, you know, yet ready to to be installed at that time for when you know, when they turned over the building
034in January, so. Um sort of a phasing thing. Um that's the majority of that cost. Um PCO 765 is in order cost of $1,689. Um we provided floor boxes in the high school gym for power and data needed at the scorer's table. Um the specified floor box covers did not sit flush with the floor, and it created a tripping hazard. Um so we purchased a flush flush box cover uh furnished by the electrical contractor who handed it over to the wood flooring contractor to route out the floor uh instead of flush flush. Uh are these the boxes that we moved Yes. >> floor? Yeah. So, we specked them, we then put them in, and they weren't flush the first time or they weren't flush the first time? >> flush the first They would have never
035been flush. All we changed is just like the flat the head cover on it. Set it down a little bit further. So, that was the the change just the cover was two grand? Uh the cover itself was like 600 bucks, and the rest was just the labor for for the wood flooring installer to route out the floor, Got it. get on his knees and and use tools. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Um PCO 766 is a CM contingency cost of $1,842. This is for additional premium labor cost to Cherry Hill for a Sunday that we directed them to work to expedite the installation of aluminum entrances and storefronts in area H. Um PCO 767 has allowance number 15 for journeyman hours related to Cherry Hill uh for frame modifications needed throughout the project. Uh we have
036seated the allowance so a hit of $1,631 to the CM contingency. Uh PCO 768 is an owner cost of $5,786. Uh this is to improve the level of drywall finish from a level four to a level five finish at the auditorium uh sail walls um that were not indicated on the documents but required um per SLAM direction. PCO 771 is a CM contingency cost of $613 uh for temporary toilets in the March 2026 period. And PCO 773 is an owner cost of $1,980. There are the MEC metal panels which are those wood grain like panels that we have in the building, those tongue and groove slot panels. Um we installed those at the box portals at the middle school elevation. If you're in the middle school parking lot, you know, you've got these portals that
037you know protrude out from the rest of the building facade. Um there was a concern I think raised by Mario at the time that when you're at grade level the panels since they don't have sheathing behind them, it's just you know you have stud framing behind it and then you have horizontal hat channeling. Um that you know at grade level if anybody was leaning on those panels it would kind of indent them. Um so we came up with the idea to kind of reinforce the back of them and really essentially it's just we added 8 ft of plywood from you know the finished floor level of the the sidewalk up to 8 ft tall um with plywood to help kind of reinforce that concern so. That's it. No uh no chance of moisture getting in
038there. Should be. That was a concern cuz we actually originally suggested doing like a rigid insulation in the back to kind of help it but SLAM told us not to do that cuz it would inhibit the moisture being able to breathe behind that system. >> [snorts] >> I have a motion to approve the Just just my about the drywall. What was the drywall issue in the auditorium sails? It's really just there's different there's really technically five levels of drywall finish. You know, four is pretty typical. You know, you see all that in the corridors. You know, if light's shining on it if you get you know you'll be able to kind of see a little bit of the taping seams but you know with how you know pronounced those curved architectural sail walls are and
039how you know you know beautiful finishes that SLAM selected. I think they were like Wolfcorden. If you ever guys have heard of that. This fancy paint. Um but you know in a space like that you know we said spend the money to to to go from a level four to a level five. What what what what's what's it take? What's a It's a level five. It's spray. It's actually a spray coat. Usually level four >> And then in an hour like in an hour it's almost like doing what like a veneer plaster. Okay. Level five is a full skim coat. Got you. So it's a full skim coat over the top of it. All right. As a as opposed to where the nail joints are and all that. You get joints now in a whole
040wall right there. It's a skim coat. So level four is not level five is a skim coat. Level five is like the most supreme finish. Thank you. You got it. I have a motion to approve the PCOs. Matt. Second. Doug. I'll second that. Any discussion? All in favor? Say I. Any opposed? Okay. Uh you have the as I always give you the analysis of payments. And then we have one payment of invoice uh for BO companies $1,905.75. I have a motion to approve that payment. Second. Ellen. Second. Second Kathy. Any discussion? All in favor? I. Any opposed? Okay. And the next one is I always give you the uh the project budget. So that's uh the last thing. Just one other item if you remember uh we had some uh change orders that were uh
041date was extended and so forth. So those change orders uh were about a million three. Uh the state after a letter from uh superintendent uh we got down to uh they took away 920,000 of that 1.3. So the change orders are now in line with 411,000. So we're you know about that. Comments for the good of the order? Aman. I'm all set. Doug. Yeah, I'm all set. I don't think I'm all set. Ellen. Um I think I'm all set. Thank you. One question. You were discussing the roof panel channels. Just in general what is the warranty on them? I think it's 20. 20 years. I think it's 20. I don't think we paid for this. >> No, we didn't pay for the 20 years. 20. So it'd be 20 years from whatever day they accepted
042it in May. Okay. Dave. Nothing from me. Thank you. I'm good. Thank you guys. Okay. Nothing. I'm all set. I have just one question. The uh you've got the sheet of all the payments and change orders. How did it all pan out with the fields? You know, the 6 million and the us having 900,000 all the credits coming back from the project. So how did we end up doing on the 6 million dollar total? Well, we're going to spend 6 million close to >> Well, right but but we're going to have Right now we have $700,000. We still have to go to alliance allowances and a couple of other change orders that are deductible. So we'll have 900,000. Fantastic. Close to what We're at 703,000 now. Thank you. Okay. Anything else? Uh Oh yeah. Robin,
043you have anything? Sorry. No, thank you. I'm all set. Uh Dr. Mario. Yes, sir. Uh just uh just a reminder for the board to attend the ribbon cutting. Hopefully everyone can make it. Also there's a very large track meet with eight teams so far on May 9th. Um that'll be nice if you guys lay eyes on that too if you're available. Yeah, please show. >> And of course yeah, Ed's going to flip burgers, right? So uh but O and G knows these two critical dates and they're going to do their best to make that campus as as uh beautiful as possible given the fact that it's half under construction still. Mario, did you come back with any money? Uh not much. Took the kids to uh Orlando. I'm the only one there last week. Never
044mind. >> [laughter] >> No executive session. Next uh meeting is May 21st. And uh I have a motion to adjourn at 5:33. Matt and John. >> [clears throat] >> I'll second. I'll second that.