April 8, 2026 Town Council Budget Hearing

001Good evening everyone. >> Good evening. >> Welcome to the Trumbull Town Council Finance Committee Board of Ed budget hearing. Um, please everybody rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. >> Pledge allegiance >> to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay, before we get started tonight, I do have a quick statement. >> Yeah, roll call. >> Um, yes, please Margaret. We'll do that. Where are you? You can call the roll. Thank you, Margaret. >> Batten >> Here I am. >> Isaac >> Here. >> Harris >> I'm here. >> Uh, Bill Mecca >> Here. >> Dunn >> Here. >> Yeah, see. What else do I need? >> Um Oh, yes, Richard Foreman. >> We're not married

002yet. Here. And here. >> And Tony's sister. >> Okay. Okay. Tonight marks the final phase of the 2026-27 budget process, which will conclude with a vote on the full town budget on Wednesday, May 6th. As many of you are aware, the first selectman has approved a 4% net increase over last year's Board of Ed operating budget. By the time the Board of Finance voted, there were four notable areas of projected savings, which included insurance, transportation, energy, and non-lapsing funds totaling $1,820,000. The Board of Finance subsequently approved an increase of $500,000. Under the town charter, the Town Council may only vote to reduce funding, it cannot increase it. This Council includes many current parents of TPS students and many former Trumbull Public School parents who once advocated for the same same initiatives being discussed in recent

003public hearings. On a personal note, my youngest son was at Tech Ed for 3 years and is now thriving socially and academically in college success which is success I attribute in large part to the 15 years of education and support he received from Trumbull's teachers and staff. Our current Council also has a significant number of educators, coaches, and staff who have worked both within Trumbull and in surrounding districts. I want to be clear, this administration and this Council strongly support education and are committed to keeping teachers in classrooms and students learning in a safe, supported, and enriching environment. Trumbull is navigating several challenges, including increased property tax impacts following post-COVID uh revaluation, aging infrastructure driving higher maintenance and capital costs, and broader economic uncertainty affecting many residents. At the same time, we recognize that a

004strong school system is one of Trumbull's greatest assets and a primary reason families chose to live here. We were elected to evaluate to evaluate all these issues and the financial and social impacts that they have on our entire community. I can assure you that we don't take this process lightly, and many hours of deliberation go into finalizing the budget. We are deeply grateful for the patience, dedication, and hard work of our teachers, administrators, and staff who serve our students and families every day. Uh with that, I'd like to pass off to Dr. Cimmons. >> Thank you. All right, good evening, everyone. It's a pleasure to be here. Appreciate the opportunity to walk you through a few slides. I did provide you um with a copy of the slides that I'll be going through. Um as

005you know, when we provide the budget to the Board of Education, we go through many, many more slides. And so, those are on our website, but for the purpose of these meetings, uh slide presentations tend to get a little bit shorter and shorter um to hit some of the high-level points that we want to hit, and then give a opportunity for questions and answers, and try to do that in a timely manner, because I know you're all volunteering your time to be to do the important things uh that Ms. Hatton just talked about. So, I'll walk you through some of the slides, and um and then again, answer whatever questions that the uh folks would like to ask us. I also do want to just thank everyone for having this just be a a Board

006of Education budget discussion. I think it's gone back and forth in different ways and sometimes we could be waiting in the wings for a decent amount of time. So, I appreciate the ability to to come as the only group coming tonight. So, first few slides will be quick. We talk about the importance of our work and our commitment to education and what we're doing this all for, which the is the students of Trumbull. We have a a vision of the graduate that's really important to us that's that's the cornerstone of all the the curriculum work that our teachers build through Dr. Iwanicki's office and then implement in their classrooms. We also know that when we put this budget together, it really does take a lot of us to put that together from the Board of

007Education members to the central office administration to building administrators, many of whom are here tonight. And what was I was asking during the Board of Finance conversation, what kind of a school district do you want? And we went through the process, answered a number of questions for them, and we were very appreciative of the increase that they provided during that process. So, tonight, what we want to do is talk about the return on investment that we believe we're providing to the town of Trumbull in terms of the education system, talk about the approved Board of Education budget, the approved Board of Finance budget, the difference, the impact that that will have or may have on current staff and programming, and then a request that we're going to make of the Town Council and answer any

008Town Council questions. So, staying starting with the return on investment, we've shown this in the past in different ways. This scatter plot talks about our achievement, which is the star, versus the achievement of all other districts in the state. Up on the Y axis is the accountability index number. That is how the state is able to give a number to each district in the in the state of Connecticut. And then along the X axis, you see how much each district pays uh or expends for every child in the Trumbull public schools. So, you see in terms of what we spend, you see there's no one that spends less and achieves more. I'm going to talk about a couple of other slides here, but I know there's a lot of points up there, but there's not

009a single dot that is above and to the left of Trumbull, which would mean that they're actually performing higher than Trumbull and achieve um spending less. We also we heard from the Board of Finance um about all the other education expenses that go in and and um how they're not part of the Board of Education budget. We talked about apples to apples comparisons and and how the net cost per child works out. So, we thought it would be useful for us to do a calculation at least to see if we took every single one of the education expenses, every single one that's even below the Board of Education. So, it's all the education expenses, which would be things like um all the capital um payments, the the principal, the loan interest, um the private school

010buses, all those all those different costs and and put those um there's other some the pensions, the nursing costs. If we included that all, what would our net cost be then and produce the same scatter plot? And you see of course our net child per cost goes up to 20,963. Um but you'll see in a later slide that's still below the state average. If we take every single expense, it's still below the state average um for net cost. And you see that our um performance is still second to none. You see that the cost went up, but we still are performing at a high level. Just want to put that up there because I know we heard a lot during the Board of Finance conversations about these other expenses. Um, and I'll I'll show you

011some of these other slides. We also saw This actually came through social media and somebody brought it to my attention um from my friends at Cheshire. I happen to know the uh superintendent in Cheshire well when we were both high school principals superintendent in Cheshire. Um, we we did a lot of uh positive things between the two schools. Um, so I reached out to him. He goes, "Yep." You know, and he he's competitive like I am. He's like, "Yeah, you you notice out." Um, he was trying to show their community cuz they're having some similar conversations uh about the efficiency. This slide really talks about you see performance versus wealth and spending. So, you would not expect Trumbull to to be performing at the level we are given this funding. We're actually above expected um

012with that. So, these these slides continue to just really try to make the point that the Trumbull public schools are not um an inefficient uh system where we have all kinds of money just flowing out of us. We're a very efficient system and in fact in this uh in this way the most efficient system in the state of Connecticut. >> Sorry, I had to clap. >> Thank you. So, we've talked about the net cost before and you know that our net cost is um 24 25 was 19,000. You see that state average cost was 22,000. And just as a reminder, if I go back a few slides, the net cost if you put everything that's considered education into our net cost, it's 20,963. And the state average is 22,375. So, like I was saying, it's

013it's still below that when you put it all in. So, we're a very efficient system. This looks at the district the area districts, which it tends to be more expensive to be down in Fairfield County. So, you see you tend to see more expensive prices. The average goes up even by a couple more thousand dollars to educate each child. So, we think that's important. We've talked about how this actually this difference between our um net cost per child and the average ends up being 4,000 if you look at Derby districts. And about 3,000 if you look at the area districts. And I chose these districts because they're the larger districts. Um because there probably is some truth to the notion that there's uh efficiencies in larger districts. Um especially districts with just uh one high

014school. But, you can see if you multiply out the difference times our number of students, it's $28 million. Meaning that if we had the average, we'd have 28 more million dollars in our budget. Which I think is sizable. Um so, we're doing a lot with the with the tax dollars that we're provided. This is a slightly older slide now because it was um some things with the part the medical insurance has changed, but the Board of Education adopted a budget which was a 6.65% increase. It was 8.5 or 8.6 million more. Um We also shared with the Board of Finance what would what happened last year when we went through this process. The Board of Ed had approved a 5.89%. The Board of Ed ultimately received a 3.73% increase. And how did we manage to

015balance our budget? We had to increase pay to play. We had to take $590,000 out of our non-lapsing account to cover the cost of our K5 Bookworms program. We had to use $300,000 out of our non-lapsing account to pay for the technology budget. We expected an increase of $207,000. That was As I've been saying, that was a fortunate $207,000 that came in late in the process. Um very fortunate that folks like uh our our state senator Sujata Gadkari Wilcox was involved in trying to get increased uh special ed numbers up. Um so, that was an increase of 40 million for the state, which ended up being a $207,000 increase to us that we didn't learn about until late I want to say it was um we heard it could be coming late April. It ended

016up happening early May. So, that $207,000 came late in the process. We had to cut a um a grade two teacher at Daniels Farm. Um and we also eliminated a staff interventionist for Madison Middle School. And we took significant dollars from supplies, furniture, textbooks across the district. So, we keep whittling down what we have for supplies, what we have for textbooks. Like because we don't want to um cut classroom teachers, we keep really trying to whittle that down. Right, I think we're at the point where we I'm going to show you some cuts that we're planning on making um or at least Dr. Sammel's version, the Marty Sammel version of the world at this time. But I'll show you some of the reductions that we're thinking we're going to have to make. But this is

017what happened last year. just to bring everybody back to that. Um So, we know on March 2nd, um First Selectman Tessauro provided the 4% for the Board of Education in her budget. We know on March 24th, the Board of Finance um which is the only board that I understand can increase uh funding, increase the budget to 4.39%. So, the Board of Ed approved was 137773. The Board of Finance approved was 134844, leaving a difference is of $2.9 million. So, So, we did have a very uh fortunate although having a 12.5% increase in your insurance doesn't feel that fortunate. Um but as compared to 15%, we'll take the we'll take the change. As you can see that a 2 and 1/2% decrease turned out to be uh $680,000 reduction for the Board of Education. So, the

018the true gap is $2.2 million that needs to be determined. So, again, just as a reminder, I do not make the reductions. What I generally do is work with my team and I'll make a set of recommendations to the Board of Education in their May meeting about reductions that we think um are most appropriate. But the Board of Education will ultimately have to vote on the reductions that they make. So, how do you get to about a $2.2 million reduction in our current thinking? We We would need to reduce seven teacher positions, which would increase the class size of elementary and high school, and it would reduce some student support. Any of the new staff we were asking for our budget, we'd have have reduce that. So, we were looking to try to actually increase

019some elementary positions. We're looking to try to add payroll support. Uh payroll support has actually been recommended by um Joe Santafonte when they did the um the audit review back in 2021. We have not been able to add that. And with um Mrs. Pierce coming online, she too highlighted we really need payroll support. So, with that added support we were trying to bring that in. We would have to reduce the technology budget. Um not using non-lapsing fund, we would just reduce our technology budget by about $225,000, which would cut it close to in half. We've been doing really well keeping up with our technology now. We've made some really good improvements. Um but we'd have to cut back in order to uh make sure we weren't cutting additional staff. We would use the non-lapsing account

020if it if there's still money in it cuz I as I talk every week with Mrs. Pierce, um you know, we're very tight this year. Um we you never know exactly how the year is completely going to end. Um and when you're talking about a $130 million budget 1% you know, is is still a lot of money. And if you if you land the plane with 1%, you're you're still done an excellent job. Um so, we're currently are saying that we would use $200,000 of the non-lapsing account. We would reduce two positions at Long Hill. We would cut our textbook reduction. So, instead of buying our math textbook for a 3-year, which is a little bit cheaper, we'd go down to just a 1-year purchase. And we were also trying to purchase these fun readers

021for our K-5 schools as part of our Bookworms. Um that's going to have to be held off. Then we went through a lot of our supply accounts and found an additional $95,000 of potential instructional supplies that we could reduce. We also went through our secondary school activities and some advisor costs and some competition expenses and reduced there to do reduce another 90,000. We'd have to raise pay to play again. We had been talking about um eliminating freshman sports, but we really believe that our freshman sports are good for kids and kids who want to participate in freshman sports. So, I've heard from enough parents that not that they want to pay more, but they'd rather pay more than um eliminate it and not make it a possibility for freshman. Curriculum writing and professional development for

022staff would have to be reduced. Um I know that the Board of Finance suggested a $200,000 reduction to electricity. Um we don't know exactly where that number came up from. So, based on our numbers, our true cost of electricity and what we're paying and in conversations with Mrs. Pierce and Mr. Deion, um they don't even really want me to put this $25,000 reduction in, but I said we've got to be able to find some savings in electricity. So, we we begrudgingly, um we did put in the 25,000 and we'll continue to watch. We know public benefits is reduced to a certain level. It has it certainly not gone away. Um I saw a news report that it should save us our average households $15 a month. Um at a school system, it's obviously going to

023be more than $15. And then we would take a we have two 12-month security guards. We would reduce one of those 12-month down to a uh to a 10-month, leaving us uh with $16,000 savings there. That would get us to about the $2.2 million of savings if we did it this way. Um we know that there's a um a bus survey out there, you know, that we put out there to families to get a better sense in terms of how parents feel uh about moving to a three-tier system and the potential for saving $400,000 if we move to a three-tier system. Um we do need to have additional conversations with the Board of Education and it's ultimately going to be their decision also about moving to uh a different tier of systems. Um we have

024had quite a few people. I think we'll have over a thousand by the end of tonight um survey responses. So, we'll have a good chance to look at that data. Um and just know there'll be some very positive impacts to that and then there'll be some families who are very much against um moving to a three-tier system. Um and we'll be looking at the data. My my hunch would be that parents of younger children, the K2, K3, where it's more challenging for the um getting kids on buses, getting and then getting to work is where we're going to see some of the um some of the challenges. Uh but there are savings there and we could um have some potential impact there. I do I know some people like, uh not this again, but I

025do think it's worthy of bringing up um and I'm going to share another document with you um in a moment. It's It's a partly on my slide, but um the 401A retirement benefits for non-certified staff. So, non-certified staff that would be your paras, secretaries, custodians, security guards, those folks have always been on the town pension plan. As many years ago, 15 years ago, they started talking about going away from a a pension plan, a defined benefit plan, and moving to a defined contribution plan, or a 401a. And what seemed to happen, and none of my team, maybe Miss Heffley was working for Trump back in '14, '15, no? None of my team was here during the '14, '15 school year. So, I can't speak to like how the expense got shifted over to the Board

026of Education. But, I do think it's important for us to keep paying attention to the impact this is having on our percentage increases. So, first year, seven people. Seven people must have retired. They rehired them, different people, and now those folks were on the 401a. And it cost There was seven people. Then, the next year grew to 26, and you can see as you follow the chart, it goes it went up it's up to 189 people. And we have exposure to about 128 more folks. So, they're still on the traditional pension plan. They have yet to retire, and we haven't replaced them. As we've been saying, these expenses, this is not people anymore, it's the cost to us, have gone from a very low amount, and it's increased its way up to and the '26,

027'27 budget, I think it's listed at $515,000 for that 401a. So, you can see it's been growing. And that's those are dollars that are not buying more teachers for us, or more textbooks, or more supplies. It's not giving us professional development. It's just simply paying for an expense that used to be funded out of the town. So, um that's had an impact on what we're able to purchase in addition to, um, inflation. So, we believe that's about six teachers. Now, I do want to pass out something to you. So, we can we continue to dig and like, well, what happened we're still trying to find out exactly what happened and and there could be historians here. Many of you who've lived in town far longer than I've been here might have a much better understanding

028of what happened and why it happened. Um, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter to me how it happened. I just have a request at the end of the day, but this what what we're passing out to you, these were minutes from August of 2011. And just so everybody else sees, you don't have the full minutes, but these are what you're seeing online is just part of the minutes, but you see farther down there's an agenda item where they talk about this new town pension plan update. And town chief of staff Dan Nelson comes out and he talks to the Board of Education. I don't know if any of you folks were on the Board of Education. So, they talked to the Board of Education about this new new 401A coming on

029and that the town would contribute up to 5% and the town would match this contribution. So, they were explaining to Mr. Ayres Agnew, who many people know in the room, um, about this this coming. And you see at the very bottom, that was bolded not by me, stars are all me, underlining me. Um, but it said Mr. Nelson also noted that the expenses for this plan would be funded from the town side of the budget. So, in August of 2011, and maybe there's minutes There's a lot of minutes in the world of Trumbull, but at least in the minutes of August of 2011, what was being told to the Board of Education back then, which is why we keep minutes, cuz that's the history of our work, um they were being told that the money

030was going to be paid for by the town side. I think that's important. There could be other minutes that say something completely different, but the Board of the time was being told that. So, my request is that you bring back the non-certified retirement expense back to the town budget, while keeping the Board of Finance approved increase of 4.39% because you can't you can't increase um you can't increase the budget for the Board of Education, but I do wonder out loud if you're able to take an expense off of our out of our budget. You might have the power to do that. I do not know the answer. Um you'd have to check with others. Um so, we'll have to see. Someone has the power to do it. So, my request, it would it would reduce

031cuts, obviously, by $500,000 by able to do that. So, I bring that to your attention. I think those minutes are important. And uh I'll stop beating that drum for this presentation. So, what kind of a school district do you want? Um our request is that you recognize that the Trumbull Public Schools for its effectiveness and efficiency, and that's not even just the Trumbull Public Schools, that's every person in this in this room has had an impact. This is not just um myself or my principals or our teachers. Um we're efficient and effective because of the elected officials uh in town. Um because of the staff that works so hard to try to make sure that um even with what they have, they're able to make sure our students are performing at a super high level.

032Uh, I want you to uh, keep the entire Board of Finance adopted budget for the Board of Ed, and I want you to uh, consider removing the 401A expense from the Board of Education budget. Uh, so for all those listening, what can you do now? I've been I've been telling people what they could do and suggest what they could do. My understanding is that there's a public uh, hearing on April 27th at 6:00 p.m. in this very room. Uh, it's going to be Zoom and so it'll be hybrid is my understanding. So, uh, Town Council will be able to listen to members of the community who want to share their their input. And then, we've also been telling people that and I think there could be some possible um, traction. I don't know where it's

033at right now, but we've been asking people to um, reach out to your elected your state elected officials. There's two major grants that are for education. The grants come directly uh, to the town, but one of them is the Education Cost Sharing Grant. Uh, you've heard Mrs. Tesoro talk about that as well. She's been championing championing uh, at at the state level trying to make sure they say or that she says "Why are we getting so little compared to some of the other districts around us?" And the state districts are saying "Why is this not kept up with inflation? Why is it so far behind inflation?" And so there's been conversations at the state level. So, if if parents want to do something, I would absolutely or anybody watching, any townsperson, uh, you don't have

034to be a parent to do this, contact your state officials and say "We really want you to increase the cost sharing grant. And while you're at it, put more money in the excess cost reimbursement because you're not keeping up with special ed costs that you're supposed to be doing as well, and then stop adding unfunded mandates because I'm sure there'll be something that they'll do this year that I'll have to spend different dollars on to do what the state just told us we had to do. Um there's a number of legislation items that could have an impact on cost to us. So there's a number of I actually took this right from the town's website or it might have been from Mr. Sorrows' newsletter at some point where all the information is laid out. Here's

035your state reps, here's the phone numbers to call and do that. So um reach out to these folks. You've elected them to do the the do the good work of of Connecticut. So that's the slides that we have and we're happy to answer any questions. >> Okay. Thank you very much, Dr. Summel. Um I think we're going to start first on this side with uh with our council chairman, Ashley Gaudiano, and then we'll move on to questions from the committee. Perfect. Thank you, Dr. Summel, and thank you to everybody who's here this evening, and I see members of the Board of Education and lots and lots of administrators out there. So thank you all for being here. I know this is not what people want to do on a Wednesday evening, but we appreciate all

036of you. Um you know, I I have some questions, but I just want to reiterate you that you know, the questions we are asking, and I think the questions from the Board of Finance are not designed to question the efficiency. They're not designed um to come from a place of distrust, right? It's really about transparency and hoping that together we can find additional areas of savings that don't impact the kids. And so I would just urge us as we have tonight's conversation to think about that framing instead of this being contentious, right? This is how can we find other areas of savings, how can we collaborate? And how can we make sure that there's transparency into all budgets? Um, I also just want to remind people that this all of the numbers that were thrown

037out, right? The 4%, the 4.39, those are all increases over last year. So, everything is above what was funded last year. Now that that's out of the way. Um, we have and they might be over here. I don't know. Cindy, can you hand out that uh the chart that's right on that table? Would you mind handing that out? You can start over here. And then um we can certainly if we have extras hand them to the public because I think part of what we want to just cover as a starting place are the differences in the proposed savings from the Board of Ed numbers and the Board of Finance numbers. Um, partially because that could yield another $600,000 of savings, right? So, I think we want to go through and ask some questions around the

038three-tiered bussing, the non-lapsing, and the electrical savings or the energy savings. Um, but also to understand, right? I think you've said tonight, Dr. Semmel, that there's a $2.2 million gap. Um, but the Board of Finance made some decisions based off of the idea that there was a $900,000 gap. And so, I don't necessarily think we have to rehash where or how those numbers were developed so much as I just want to make sure the public knows that the Board of Finance was operating with the belief that there was $900,000 to make up and not $2.2 million to make up. And all we as elected officials can do is make decisions based off the information we have at hand. So, you know, we tried to lay this out so that we could see all of the

039numbers that have been at play over the last six five months four months um and then really dive into the differences in savings assumptions to help us figure out if there are more possible areas beyond what you identified in the in the table on possible reductions at 4.39% because there's some things that aren't on there that maybe could help make sure that we don't have to get to a place of cutting these numbers. So you know I guess I would just start with maybe we start with savings Nikki and right talk a little bit about the non-lapping right there's a difference of 200,000 and 340,000 the transportation three-tiered bussing wasn't in the slide deck you just showed though I know you mentioned it so it would be helpful to talk through that and then you

040know the energy efficiency numbers that the Board of Finance came up with um and how we might get closer to 100,000 or 200,000 as opposed to 25,000. So if if you're okay with that maybe we can go through each one of those savings. Does that work? >> Let's start with transportation. >> Sure let's start with transportation. >> Okay. All right so we do have uh tiered bussing on the on the docket here. So why don't you give us a little bit of more detail about I know that there's a survey out now. Um are we looking at tiered bussing in the fall? Um how long are we going to wait? Are you um evaluating these surveys to make any decisions on tiered bussing? Um we did have a $600,000 number Board of Finance. Um, you

041have mentioned 400,000. But, any of that I think saves us several of those seven teachers that that we're looking at up there. So, um, maybe you can give us some more background on where you're at where you where your thoughts are at with tiered bussing. >> Sure. Um, we we've been talking about tiered bussing for a while now. It came up a few It actually came up, I believe, a few years back. Um, but it came up in the in the concept of go to tiered bussing to save um the expenses of late school start. That's that's part of where this conversation originated from. Um, uh, there was costs associated with going to late school start, so um there was a suggestion that we could do a tiered bussing to save the the cost of

042that. Uh, the PTA actually had done a study. The study had some weaknesses to it, and I provided a rebuttal to that. They had kids getting home in the in the darkness, pretty pretty dark. Um, so we do believe there's some value to going to a three-tier system. We we know that um there are lots of school districts that have a three-tier bus system. Uh, it is more efficient in terms of a bus of a bus system. Um, there are a number of of pros for going to a uh a three-tier bus system. Some of them being um one of the major problems we have in this district is very tight high school buses. They some people in district In some districts say, "Boy, the buses are almost empty. We should be able to cut."

043I can tell you the high school buses are not them. They are they're jam-packed, and every year if you just want to jump on social media at the beginning of school year, you can see how tight the buses are. You might even see a few pictures about kids standing in in um in rows and things like that. And it happens at the middle schools as well. So, we definitely have a problem when it comes to not having enough buses. Uh Don Perkins who uh people know and love and knows that she was doing a great job with transportation. Um she was able to every year try to figure out how to sneak four kids from this bus onto that bus and just start working her magic um and try to make it work. But she'd

044be in my office weekly telling me Marty, we need to add another bus. There was a bus actually cut during the COVID cut. So, um going into the 2021 school year they lost a bus that we've never recovered. So, I think we've been in this um very tight situation around buses for a while. So, uh one of the things that a three-tier bus system would do would uh for sure at the uh high school and secondary level reduce the capacity issues that we're having and reduce the ride times. There'd be there's You also see 45 minutes on the bus, hour on the bus. So, that would be reduced. Um we also know that by separating Hillcrest and Trumbull High School we would likely see a traffic uh betterment of the traffic. So, there's definitely uh

045a piece there. The the negatives that we're seeing in some of our surveys right now, but the survey's open till tomorrow at noon. Um there's a lot of parents who are very frustrated that if we go in this direction their child care situation is going to be very challenging. So, at current time there was about there was over a thousand already um survey results. Um and a lot a lot of the uh parents who are having concerns, there's about 27% currently of um parents who are saying that this would be a very difficult thing for them to move to. So, about a quarter of your families would would have that very challenging. I I haven't had a chance to go in and look at all the specifics as what makes it challenging, but my guess

046would be it's going to be around taking care of of their children. On getting them on buses and So, that's the that's the biggest negative that I think we're going to face from this. The other negative will be that it is later than typically um parents are expecting to see their kids leave elementary school. We might even have certain staff at the elementary school who don't want to go that late. That might be a a a concern for staff members as well cuz it'll be about a half an hour later than they they normally get out. So, that's So, as we collect these the survey data, our intention is to um have some conversations with our Board of Education meeting and try to get to a point where we know how to move forward. Are

047we going to be able to move forward with this? And because we need to start actually developing bus routes either under a three-tier or a two-tier soon. Our new bus transportation manager has just started today. And um so, I'm sure she's going to be excellent, but we also don't want to scare her away on day one. So, we do we are having this data is to be used by our Board of Education and our central office team to get a better sense of where our families are uh and how difficult this kind of a change would be. But I just laid out that there's for sure pros, there's definitely some cons, and we know there's uh money savings. In terms of the uh we we are being told from the consultants, and I shared with

048Ms. Gardiano the the study, um they're saying that we should only consider reducing four buses going into a three-tier. They say, "Could you potentially save more in the future?" Yes, but you should not try to go in reducing absolutely as many as you think you can and then have it fail. They think that would be a bad idea. Uh they've done this before. Some districts have tried to to really get that extra bus and then they run into a system where it fails and only because the town got greedy trying to make savings around that. So, I think that responds to the question and happy to go into more detail. >> Um, that does answer some of those questions. Um, I guess I would just say, you know, we heard I get the challenges of

049trying to work and get your kids on a school bus, right? And get them off the school bus and I think many of us here deal with that or have dealt with that. I also think we heard parents get up and say, "We're happy to have all of the money put into the Board of Education, right? Raise my taxes as high as you need to go in order to fund the schools." And while change is hard and and again, I'm very sympathetic to that and the challenges that it that can cause for working families, there there was a willingness to pay. And so, if we need to figure out what the other, right, how to save how to save the seven teachers in this or close to it, right? I know that that's 500 and

050something and this is maybe 400, 500. But to me, I think if parents were answering a survey understanding that this that the choices they're making in this survey could mean not cutting personnel, that they might answer differently. Right? And so, I know you didn't put that in there and I understand why, but I do think the message could be different if we're saying to people, "Choose this, right? Can you deal with a little bit of hardship if it means we don't have to cut personnel." And so, maybe what needs to come out of this is a little bit of that communication. >> I will say part of we did ask everybody to prioritize what's more important to them and the survey is coming out loud and clear that the top two pri- the number one

051and number two priorities would be maintaining, you know, class size. So, if they didn't choose it as their number one priority, they're choosing um they're choosing it as their number two priority. So, agreed. It's just for those families, this would be the challenge. They might say no, but then when their kids are in fourth and fifth grade, they might really appreciate when their kids get to middle school, they might appreciate, oh, the bus the buses aren't full. And there are districts, plenty of districts around us that have multi-tiered systems, and there are plenty of districts around us that have a 9:00 a.m. 9:00 a.m. elementary start. Monroe is Monroe is a good example. Uh Shelton, Newtown, Ridgefield. There's a number of towns that are I would say similar to a Trumbull that have a three-tier

052system. >> Are there any uh committee questions regarding tiered bussing? >> So, Dr. Samuel, you mentioned you're evaluating, you're getting feedback from this survey, and then at some point you're going to make a a decision. What are some of the uh key performance indicators or key indicators out of that survey that you'll be looking at to make a decision like yay, nay? Like how how are you waiting that or how are you evaluating all of that? >> Yeah, I think our we're going to be looking at the data tomorrow afternoon once the survey closes. But one of the biggest um KPIs, if you will, um would be around this what percentage of our community finds that this would be a very difficult change. So, that's why I said earlier that about 70 it's about 20

053I can't see without my glasses. It's about Actually, it's gone down slightly. So, it's about um Oh, that's the afternoon. So, afternoon only about 20% of the families say it'll be very challenging, and about 27% um say that the morning will be very challenging. I think that's a big piece. Like if 75% of the Trumbull families were saying this is going to be extremely challenging. Um, but in fact some people are seeing um, there's actually over 18% of the people saying this would be a positive impact for them. Um, citing things like middle school being at 8:00 seems like a it would be really valuable for the middle schoolers. Um, so I think people are weighing their own independent situation and so that would be the main um, piece of data that we're we're looking

054at is how much impact it's going to have on our families. And looking at that, is it is it focused on just early grades or is that scattered across pre-K 12? >> Um, to that point about impact, does this impact like uh, after you know, afternoon activities or other sorts of activities these students may not be able to enjoy in that >> So then you'd be speaking mostly about elementary students, right? >> Well, I don't know. I don't know if this affects like the middle schoolers or the high schoolers or more or less their afternoon schedule still remains the same or uh, what this might do. >> I would say that since the high school doesn't change at all, uh, there would be no impact to the high school students' afternoon schedules. Middle school only

055changes by a half an hour. We don't see any significant impact there. And for elementary, I can't speak for all the different activities that our elementary students attend. My guess is that those activities are going to have to adapt to us because we've got all the kids. So when they leave, they won't be able to participate until they get home. Um, and again, it's only going to be about a half hour difference or so. Um, so it shouldn't have a significant impact that way. That's why I think the afternoon is less of an impact people are saying than the morning. I think it's more about getting kids on buses and then to work that I've read in some of the comments we're getting. Yeah. >> Your boss wants you to work. Yeah. >> Councilman Mecca?

056>> Oh yeah, just staying with the topic of uh impacting the bus bus availability or accessibility, how would it affect high school athletics since that's such a huge part of uh transportation throughout the year? >> Right, we um it shouldn't be any different. It shouldn't be any different. We We've been having a lot of challenges with after after school buses. Um so any any improvement will be will be better. Um but all 44 buses would be running the elementary schedule. The Durham is supposed to have buses for us beyond the 44 to take our kids to act um you know, sports and things like that. The challenge is is that they don't have enough bus drivers and so the their bus drivers are finishing their elementary route and then running back to the high school

057to try to get them to activities. So that's a problem and that's not how it's supposed to work. Um but this shouldn't change that because those 44 buses are just supposed to do those elementary runs and other buses are supposed to pick up athletics at the high school. >> Councilman Wolf? >> Yeah, I know. Um in regards to the to the budget for the the buses. Uh 4.7 million total for the buses. Is that am I right with that number? >> That sounds right. I just think it would be better for us to look. >> How How many and while she's looking, you might know this off the top of your head. How How many kids total in the school system? >> 7,000. Like 6,800. >> Um that includes I There's I believe 160 162

058in the private schools. >> That sounds right. Yep. >> Okay. >> No, but that does not but that's not part of the >> 7,000. >> No. No. >> Um the bus is at 4.7 million number. Does that include the the cost for the busing for private schools? >> The cost for busing for private schools is paid out of a different fund. >> that's out of a different fund. >> Yes. >> Is that included in the cost >> No. That's just the general fund cost. >> Okay. All right. Um it just it's in that I correct me if I'm wrong, that's about a million dollars for the private schools. >> Uh I believe it is 1.3. I think. >> even more. >> it is. >> Why is there so much more money for us to bus

059around the the private school then? It's just that's just what we're charged? >> My guess is that there's fewer kids on those buses. Right? And there's probably a lot I don't know Mr. >> Beyond, do you have an answer to that? >> I do not provide is definitely lower. Um we still need a large amount of buses for those school systems. Cuz they still have to get around to the same geographic >> Understood. Um yeah, I mean I I guess the the that's that's got to I mean you showed us that last year, too. That's got to be applauded. That's just amazing. I I mean I I commend you for the job that you're doing with the the the budget you're getting. Um but I wish we could give you the the full 6.5 back.

060I I it's disappointing cuz people move to this town for the schools. Um go the the 401, I'm glad that you brought that up and pointed that out just because we see it here in the minutes. I don't know is that Dan Skolnick's not here, right? That would That would be a question for Dan to to see Sorry, I didn't mean to make you get up tonight. I I was going to make you have an easy night. >> So I maybe you were on the council at the time. I I don't know, but I was not. I was started later in 2011. So >> I remember this part of the change, but this changed What he's saying is it changed after again. So my question is who changed it and when was it changed? >>

061No. So that that was the actual change happened at in the town council in 2011. Didn't go into effect until 2014. >> Right, but he's saying it's being paid out of the school now, not the town. >> Right. >> So well when did they change it? >> it was a pension that was a pension, not a 401A at that time. So the pension payments for the Board of Ed employees were being paid by the town. When they switched it over to the to the the the defined contribution plan, that's when the Board of Ed started to pick up the payments. >> that's not what this says. >> Yeah, the minutes say >> Well I don't listen, I don't I can't I have no idea what was discussed at that time when >> Yeah, but this

062clearly states that >> Maybe, but we don't know what else will happen at the time. >> will find out. >> Well if you if you can find out, I'm not sure how you're going to find out. >> was my question is how how do we find out? How do I find out? I'll call I'm going to call Dan and I'll find out. >> Well, you could call Dan, but that's his opinion. It's there isn't if there's nothing that was formally agreed to and I can't I can't say. I wasn't on the council at the time and it started until later in 2011. But certainly whatever was changed was changed in 2011 earlier that whatever the date that was, but didn't go to effect until 2014. And we don't know there was a lot of um

063All right. I don't want to say too much. There were a lot of things going on at that time that were done sort of it >> differently. >> I'm not Again, I don't want to be on camera saying anything that I really don't know for sure. We I wasn't here. There was no minutes that we can find other than there was a town council meeting when this was discussed and it wasn't it wasn't talked about in that way at the town council meeting in 2011. So, I can't tell you um exactly what happened. There was a lot of shifting of monies going around at that time with um the Board of Education and the health insurance. Um so, I don't have that information and I don't know where you would find it that you could

064rely on something unless you find some kind of written agreement that was signed off on by both the Board of Ed and the town. I have no idea. >> where we would ask Dan, I guess. >> Dan >> Yeah, we we might we might >> up and you have to you'd have to >> I'm going to ask I'm going to ask Dan Nelson. >> Well, you can ask Dan Nelson, but Dan Nelson was a chief of staff. He wasn't an elected official. He was Tim's chief of staff and he was um no longer employed by Tim soon after that time. So, again, I'm not going to say anything more because I don't know anything more. If you there's somebody that wants to do some investigative work um and have conversations with people, that's fine, but

065again, we don't know what was agreed to by whom. >> Would that be on a microfiche? I don't like I don't know if there's documents going that far. >> Microfiche? >> Um but but I guess my concern, you know, it's it's easy to have the agreement, I'm sure you'd agree when it was like $12,000 total. My concern is you're you're already not getting the money you you kind of need. What if that $500,000 becomes a a million because more people it's a numbers game, right? More people retire, more people are going on the 401A. >> And we expect this to grow to well over a million dollars cuz there was 128 more people that can get off the pension and go on to the 401A. So that $500,000 is guaranteed to go up. So every

066year we come here it might go from 515 to next year it might go 540. It might go 570. But that if it goes up by 30,000 that is money that whatever we were going to get as an increase we have to pay for that first. It's an expense that the board didn't have. It's just My only request is that it just be at least appreciated that that is now in our budget and it's eating away from our increase. And if it can be taken back to the town side we would certainly appreciate that cuz we know it's going to continue to grow. Um but I I have no power over making those changes. I'm just just here to make the request. >> I understand what you're saying of course. Um those are are your

067employees not the town I mean they're all town employees but those are on the board of ed side those employees. >> Yeah. >> And again I don't know what was discussed between the parties at that time when this all went down. When they switched all of the employees over to a defined contribution plan that were covered by the pension. So that was not just your employees obviously it not your per se the board of ed employees. And all the town employees were switched over as well to 401. Right? And of course the town pays for our our employees. Um so again I'm just saying I don't know what was involved. There could have been other discussions other agreements that were made between um the first selectman at that time uh and the board of education.

068There was more things that happened as I said. There were there were monies that were funneled back and forth with the health insurance. Some people may remember that. >> Missing a million dollars? >> Yeah, missing a million dollars. Um that never came back again to the Board of Education, so that's a whole another discussion. Um but again, I can't say because I was not involved back in 2011. >> Yeah, I just I just want to look into it so we can I I'm my my worry is the million with when it climbs to to that, I guess. So, I I we're going to have to we'll we'll have to look into that somewhere. >> expense the money or what will increase the budget one way or another because it's on the town side or it's

069on the Board of Ed side. >> we're talking about something that happened 7th If we're not Excuse me. Excuse me. If we're not >> Accusations, accusations. I will find out. I will As soon as I leave this meeting tonight, I will call the proper people and I will get the right story. Cuz you're throwing around stuff, money being stolen, million dollars here. >> Point of order. Hold on, please. >> I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I wasn't here. All we have is a a minutes from a Board of Ed meeting. Um that that you that you're relying on and that's fine. They're minutes. That's That's history. There's also minutes from the town council meetings back in 2011 when the council voted to change this. So, I'm not and I'm I'm making that quite clear to

070everybody here in this room. I'm not accusing anybody of anything. I wasn't here. Okay? I I >> here and you are accusing people. >> Fine. If that's you're saying I am, whatever. >> wanted to know how to research >> I'm not You can go back and look at minutes of town council meetings. I'm not accusing anybody of anything. Okay? You can you can have your your say, that's fine, but I don't I don't consider that really uh productive. So. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Thanks. >> Um we are going to go back to buses for a minute and and let's wrap up buses so we can save any >> Yeah, I I had a I I had a follow up to the buses. >> Okay, go ahead. >> Um TLC >> Yep. >>

071They They run in the morning as well as the afternoon? >> Yep. >> What's the Do we Do we know I know we talked about it before, do we do we know the cost or is there a cost increase for TLC or do we expect numbers to go up if people have challenges with a bus or is there an early bus for those people? Is that drop-off? Just You talked about that for a minute. >> Yeah, I started We reached out to to the person who's in charge of TLC and we have not been able to connect yet on that, but I do want to talk about capacity. If we do move to a three-tier system, how might they think about their capacity? How might they think about running their programs? But I don't have

072information yet. Um I'm sure they would love to to see to have the opportunity to have more children come to their to their programs. They do a great job. They do a great job in all of our schools. Um So, I just need to connect with the person who's in charge. >> Okay. And we can find out like at what if they have extra capacity because of changed school hours, at what point do we have to hire another staff? You could have that conversation. >> Yeah, we can talk about what they would potentially do, what they think about increasing prices or or not, or would it even decrease prices? Not sure. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah, happy to do that. >> Good. >> Okay, and I believe Mary, you have uh Councilman Isaac, I've

073forgotten my question now. >> buses? >> Um getting back on the bus. Um so, anyway, so for the bussing, we had 400,000 roughly if we went to the four buses. And in your budget, you also had an additional two buses for the um uh the crowding. So, that's like a 600,000 spend. Um there's also for the buses that go over the 5 hours. I know you were talking yesterday, it's it's the 50,000 range for um penalization for going over the 5 hours. Is that correct? >> No, that's not what we had said. We were talking about why was there an overage in the uh transportation account line and we were saying that it could be because anything over 5-hours we get billed separately. So, that $50,000 overage could is probably most um most likely due

074to additional time and hours each day for for each bus, yeah. >> what I'm saying. So, so adding those things in it's a pretty significant shift and obviously as as she was saying everyone with young children especially it is it can be an issue, but when we are looking at, you know, that amount before we even look at adding any buses it's significant. Um you had put in the survey about the school times we're talking with um uh you know, some especially one school going elementary to different time frame. The afternoon seems because of the shortened bus time they're getting home about the same time, but in the morning that is a change. If the I don't know if we do it at the elementary schools at all, but I know at the middle schools

075they would have somebody that would be in say the cafeteria and they would have that extra time. Would that be an option for parents? I know it's it's a it would be a big ask and it's a little late in the year, but could that be an option if people do have issues? I mean to to have a staff member going in half an hour earlier if they choose versus, you know, almost 700,000 on buses. So, I don't know if you've thought about that or if it's a possibility. >> That's a very slippery slope. You would end up having to pay staff members to do essentially like a TLC type mini program. >> do we still we used when my kids were there they did it at the middle school. So, we were at Hillcrest

076and if kids were getting dropped off early they would go in versus the bus. I don't know if they do they may not do it anymore. >> Yeah, a few minutes I think. I think I know that they uh there's certain times they're not they aren't allowed to get off the bus until a certain time. We want to make sure the supervision of our children is >> No, no, it was the drop. I'm sorry this was the drop off when parents were dropping they'd be dropping early. Right dropping early right that's just it's always a supervision issue if we don't have enough staff on hand that be could become a significant issue. Yeah no I think that's where I think TLC takes and I I don't know the history like you've obviously been here for

077a longer than I have but I didn't say that. TLC I think takes part of the of that load and there's probably lots of other places where parents use before school. >> Okay and do we have any council questions on busing any other questions on busing? Okay and when when does the survey close out? >> Tomorrow at noon. >> Okay great and will you share? >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Maybe not tomorrow at noon but we want to >> We'll be patient but we'd love to see the results. Is the I saw your agenda item at next chapter books is that open for the public tomorrow and I know it's a it's a board of Ed but I don't know if that's a private board of Ed or is that open to the public? >>

078All all board of Ed meetings are are public unless an executive session or non-meeting for negotiation purposes. >> Okay thank you. Okay next up as far as discrepancy with board of finance um the non-lapping funds we talk about that I know board of finance had projected and you guys were at 200. >> Well I'm just putting up 200 as what we're comfortable saying because our available balance is so tight I'll let Mrs. Pierce talk about this a little bit more um just because we have is it 340 that's currently in there? >> 328 3 38 somewhere around there. >> So just because we have that in there doesn't mean we're comfortable that we won't be spending any more of it this year where our because our budgets are now so tight, there is like no

079wiggle room. As we try to land this plane, we're freezing the budget every year now, telling people they can't buy things if they hadn't bought them by now. Um so, the $200,000 is a is a safe place to be. And keep in mind, we really do believe that a non-lapsing account was created by the state as a statue because Board of Educations do have lots of variability in their budget sometimes, especially around um special education and facilities. Two big things that affect us are when things break, big things, expensive things break at schools. Um elevators, um you know, things like air conditioning. Mr. Deion could list a lot there. Um so, having a a little bit of a buffer for those types of fixes is, you know, the state sees that as as appropriate. I

080tell I remind people that Bridgeport had 30, I think it was a $36 million in their non-lapsing account a couple of years ago. And we have a couple hundred thousand. You know, 300 So, it's We do not have any excessive amounts in our non-lapsing account. >> I would just add that I would caution um everyone to utilize the non-lapsing as a safety net. Um just because, like Dr. Semmel said, we we may have to utilize all of those funds. And if we do for this year's budget, then we're already creating a hole for next year's budget. So, although we want to be strategic about it and obviously use the allocated funds to the best of our ability, we don't want to just spend it just to spend it, which is why the the non-lapsing fund

081was, you know, part of the reason why it was um established was to make sure that we don't just waste money, but that that we're being um strategic about how we're using the money. And if there are any um available funds at the end of the year, maybe we could use those to uh offset potential future um large expenditures that then we won't have to go to the town and ask for additional appropriation. So, again, 200,000 is probably the most that we would want to do depending on if we have that available at the end of the year. >> Do we have any committee questions regarding non-lapsing? Councilman Cento. >> Can someone from the Board of Ed tell me what the non-lapsing account was called before the non-lapsing account was created? >> Before state statute

082created something called the non-lapsing account? >> Yeah, and when was it created? >> Well, when? >> Mhm. >> No. So, the state the state created the ability for districts to have a non-lapsing account. >> what? The surplus? >> Um people call it different things. Non-lapsing account it's it's called the non-lapsing account. Does it it doesn't lapse. >> what it's called now. What was it called before it didn't exist? It was called surplus, correct? >> No. Well, any at the end of the year before let's imagine the time before there was ever a non-lapsing account. Anytime that there was dollars left over at the Board of Education, that means they wouldn't have been expended by by the board and so they never would have been taken from the town. So, they just would have left they've

083been left in the town's bank accounts cuz we don't actually ever have your money. It's basically housed over at the town's bank accounts and we are able to basically draw down those funds. >> So, let me just tell everybody what it used to be called. It used to be called the surplus. So, going back many years, when I first started doing this, every year the Board of Ed had a surplus between 540,000 and a million dollars every year. And at that time, they would give the money back to the town. They'd say, "Okay, I got $10. I'm going to give it back to the town." It averaged out over a 10-year period that they were getting an or their surplus of about $540,000 over a 10-year period. But, the Board of Ed budget never goes

084down. It starts at the year before. So, if you give back the $10 at the beginning of the year, you already have the $10. >> Mhm. >> So, they really they gave the money back, but the Board of Ed budget never goes down because of state statute, correct? So, if you get >> a minimum budget requirement, right? Per state statute. >> never goes down. So, over a 10-year period, they the budget This is before Dr. Solomgbe. We're going back to um Isonia or Isagna, however you say his name. The budget always had a surplus for 10 years. So, the budget never went down, but yet they kept the money anyway. And then in 2020, I guess they created this non-lapsing account which that money goes into. And what they started also doing before the non-lapsing

085account is when we caught up to the surplus they had, they were pre-buying stuff. So, they'd buy stuff that tangible items that weren't expenses. They could buy What was it? Was books or supplies or whatever they were buying with the money at the time. And then I guess the state created the non-lapsing account which is theoretically the surplus. Correct? >> Yeah, it ends up being whatever you have as a surplus up to 2%. So, the state statute says you as if you whatever you have up to 2% you are allowed to put into the non-lapsing. A just a couple of years ago, it changed from being you we needed approval by the um fiscal authority to move money into the non-lapsing. So, we the board would literally have to come to the fiscal authority and

086make a request, and the fiscal authority could say yay or nay to that request to put the money in. But, most recently, I think it was a couple of years ago the state statute changed to say that the Board of Education no longer needs that fiscal authority approval. So, whatever is left over at the Board of Education level, they're allowed to move it without any additional um, uh, approvals. >> And our Board of Finance Chair. >> Hi, Lainie McHugh, Board of Finance. Um, just point of information on the non-lapsing account. So, prior to having a non-lapsing account, but prior to this uh, state statute enacting that they could hold 1% of their operating budget in reserve at the end of the year, it was an unwritten agreement between the Board of Education and the town

087that um, it was probably about 10 years before the that that they were returning the surplus to the town at the end of the year. So, that they were being very transparent with the budget. There was a period prior to that where they would spend down at the end of the year. And this long predates my tenure. Um, they would spend down at the end of the year. So, in order to do that, to really have better control over the budgets, the unwritten agreement was that the Board of Ed would return that. When the state statute was enacted that they could hold 1%, it was based on approval of the fiscal authority. So, they had to ask at the end of the year to put any surplus into the non-lapsing account. And there was a

088memo of an MOA, a memo of understanding, an MOU, something like that, that we signed with the Board of Finance and the Board of Education that they would create that non-lapsing account. It's not an automatic account. The when the MOU was established, it was the year that there was a gap between the town's funding and the Board of Ed's funding. And the original amount of was $868,000. Over time, that money um had been earmarked to be used for different things, had not been used at the end of the year. So, if you look at the 10-year or the the history of that um non-lapsing account, you can see when money was actually drawn out. This is the first year that money was drawn out with the exception of the establishment of the elite program. >>

089That's not true. That's not true. >> There were many votes to take money out, but this is the first year that money was drawn down out of that account. It is true. >> No, it's not. >> The the original money with that came out of the account >> stuff for years. Before the non-lapsing account. >> Yes. >> They did. You're sitting here saying they never did that. >> No, this is the >> Well, let's get everything straight. 1% of $134 million is almost over a million dollars. >> Mhm. >> So, let's talk in money, not in percentages. Because everyone says, "Oh, 1% is not that much." 1% of $134 million is >> to hold 2% now. >> Well, that's almost $2 million. >> Mhm. >> Per year. >> Correct. So, I'm just telling you that

090that money that is in there, that that's what the state statute. So, whether you call it surplus or what you call it, that's the the genesis of where that amount came from, okay? I'm sorry. >> Surplus. >> The non-lapsing >> surplus, let's agree on that. >> Zainy, can you just click that button there? Thank you very much for that explanation. Uh Councilman I assume you have >> Just leading into that, um has the intergovernmental transfer been made for all the objects? I I know you did make it for athletics. Um so for the magnet and the e-rate >> Sorry, those will happen at the end of the year. >> So they're at the end. So again in in trying to save some of these teachers, I'm repeat repeat and looking at these type things. So

091that that added to the um almost 50,000 that's in there assuming that doesn't reduce um and the 200 for the uh the 145 left for the non-lapsing. Uh I'm just wondering as these things build up as you Can I confusing you? I'm sorry. >> Well, I think you're you're saying that >> When that comes off >> When the transfer is made from things like the the um pay-to-play for sports and the e-rate and things like that, but we I believe take it we start by anticipating it. So it's actually a negative in our budget. So we have to So it's already there. So if we don't achieve that amount of money, we'll actually be worse off. >> You're the the amount I thought that was transferred in was pretty close to it it looks like

092you you put in more than than had been anticipated. >> This year or last year? >> For this I'm talking about this year. Not for next year, for this year to offset some of the um reduction. >> In the current fiscal 26 budget, we have $312,000 as our intergovernmental transfer. >> Mhm. And I And it looked as though there was 287 >> Yeah. >> already put in. >> Yeah, we take it we take it quarterly. >> Yes, so the So with the food service was 85,000. >> taking Yeah, and we'll take the last quarter of that as well at the end of the year. >> Okay, and then the magnet and then the e-rate >> Yep. >> So it's not going to go over that amount? Over the 300 Is it going to go over

093the 300? >> no. That's the budgeted amount. That's all That's all we're getting. >> Okay. >> account. That's the That's the reverse credit or the reverse expenditure that we take as a credit to offset our general fund. We only take that amount. >> Okay. So, the but the athletics I guess I'm confused then why that much was transferred from athletics. >> Because athletics is a revenue we utilize some of the revenue earned from athletics from pay to play and ticket sales in order to offset the general fund. We do that in order so that we don't have to have as high of a budget in order to not create a tax burden. >> Yes, I guess we're saying the same thing, but you transferred 365 into the account is what I was saying. Correct or

094>> I'm lost. >> Are you talking about this current budget? >> budget. >> Um I don't have any of the current budget stuff with me. I'm sorry. >> Okay. Well, I guess that that's what I was trying to say is if if you're going I'm sorry. If you're going over uh if we have enough in some of these accounts to offset more and reduce reduce some of the um the issue that we're having with this budget for some of the overages. So, we go above that 48,000 that is projected to be left. Um we That would then fall to the non-lapsing >> Right, but we already have it projected in next year's budget for $400,000 to take. >> Yes, I'm talking about this fiscal year going into the next >> We don't anticipate having any

095additional funds to pull from. >> Right, cuz I think keep in mind there's there's going to be some line items that could end up in the positive at the end of the year, but there's there's already line items we're very concerned about. Um you just went over the finances uh last last evening with the Board of Education and went through a number of line items that are going to be heavily in the red. So, those items that are heavily in the red are going to be offset by anything that's in the green. So, we can't we can't just look at the we can't take a Pollyannaish look at it and say this is all good cuz there's a lot of stuff here that's also negative. So, >> Yeah, it was well done, but I'm just

096saying is at this point we're at 48,000 there's still some accounts that have money potentially coming. That's We'll just wait and see what comes to it at the end. >> so because there's enough negative ones that I'm I'm worried about right now. So I'm really hoping that there's some some bluer skies on their way. >> Me too. Okay, any other questions on non-lapsing? Anyone? Anyone in the back? Okay. Uh electrical was another area that um there was a lot of discussion um with the Board of Finance and they were projecting a potential for $200,000 in savings. Um are we looking at getting a third-party auditor to uh to evaluate energy savings and opportunity there? >> I'm just I'm just going to I'm going to Mr. I know you're looking at Mr. Deon. He'll answer that

097question, but you say there was a lot of discussion. I don't remember a lot of discussion. The discussion was the discussion was the discussion was >> think you can save $200,000 and we didn't we weren't given anything to show us the savings of $200,000. We're happy to sit with someone if there's like more worksheets like done out to to come up with that, but there wasn't a lot of discussion. It was just we believe you can save $200,000. And uh they Mr. Deon did respond to that question and and certainly happy to answer your question, and we have talked about this since our meeting with the Board of Finance. >> Okay, so when it comes to energy savings and and after the Board of Finance with the 200,000, uh Dr. Summerlin and I did sit

098down and and we had a discussion. And as I said at other meetings, most of the low-hanging fruit has already been completed. Uh so LEDs, um motion sensors, occupancy sensors, uh most of our systems have controls even though they're older. Um so that's really the low-hanging fruit that's been done for the past 15 years in facilities, and there were many companies that came out and did that. We also have schools with power purchase agreement solar panels, um and that's a cheaper way to get solar panels on your buildings, but you do not own the solar panels, you do not get the Z-RECs, which is additional money that is given to you by the utility companies in the state of Connecticut. So, we're losing money with power purchase agreements. Yes, we get lower energy costs, but

099we don't get any of the benefits of anything extra that we produce or any of those Z-RECs that come in. So, I did start when I look at this and these questions have been coming out, I look at utility companies first because most of them that's the place where you go to. Many of them have many grant programs, both state and federal. So, I did look at them and I looked at what UI is offering. Um currently, UI is only offering four programs, uh an energy opportunity, uh that's where they come out and they look to upgrade your equipment, but again, that's additional to your utility payment, so they'll upgrade the equipment, but they're going to put it on your bill for the next 15 to 20 years. Um operations and maintenance, that's where they

100look at repairs you can do to current equipment, how you can make it more efficient. Uh they also have retro-commissioning. Retro-commissioning is where you go to an older building and you say, "How can I balance out the building? How can I get some of your motors upgraded, your some of your systems, VFDs, things that you can add in there?" Um and sometimes it's as expansive as adding ductwork. That is very expensive. Usually, that requires an engineer to come in and go through your entire building uh to basically commission your building, go through all your mechanicals. That again can be done, but that again is added to your bill. So, none of these grant opportunities, there's no free money out there currently offered. Uh there is a comp- there is an offering out there for energy

101storage. I think that needs to be needs to be the new wave, which is battery systems. So, um and there is some opportunity to look at those, but that's not going to reduce your cost. That's only going to be if you have a peak period where you UI cannot generate enough. So, during a very hot or cold situation, uh the batteries will pick up for that, and that'll be something that's kind of your pre-storing your utility for. Um or it can help with your generator. So, some of your generators, uh you don't have to replace. You can do them with these battery systems. But, there's pros and cons to that, and it also depends upon the weather. So, I did reach out to uh my counterpart, George Estrada. Uh Mr. Estrada replied to me, and

102he and I had a good discussion. We will have a meeting about it, but he agreed with me that most of the low-hanging fruit both on the town side as well as the board has already been completed. So, to go further will require us to have another discussion and engage a third party. And again, I've spoken before, what is that third party that we're going to look at? Is it going to be upgrading equipment? Is it going to be looking at control systems, new software? Um we do currently go into night modes and unoccupied modes in our buildings. So, at certain times of the day and at night, our systems do not run, and then they come back on an hour before occupancy. So, there are and there's many ways to look at it, but

103there's nothing that is cheap. There is no free money out there for utility reductions. The other thing we have to think about is our buildings are extremely old. On average, as I've said, they're from the 1950s when they were built. Um even if I went to Madison School and I was able to do a lot with some what I've talked about for retro-commissioning, you still have single-pane windows. And when I looked at the district master plan that was done in in 2024, there was over $1 million that we would have to put in to changing out the windows and the storefronts. That was actually in some of the capitals in prior years. That came from the district master plan. Some of the other schools like Daniel's Farm that also have single-pane, uh that was about

104200,000. So, we can put in these systems, but unless our envelope of our building also becomes much more efficient, which is what our new Hillcrest building with the net zero. Um a lot is put into making sure that the building is sealed, has the right insulation, the RF factors in it. That is not in our existing buildings. So, we would have to look at two P's. So, I can change the systems out, but if my windows are letting it all go out again, I'm still going to be using a lot of utilities. So, it's a difficult answer. >> Thank you. Chairman Galdiana. Thanks. I think um I appreciate that you had a conversation with George and I'm glad you're going to meet with him. Maybe bringing in um Mr. Melazzi or Mr. Gallo from the

105Board of Finance, who I think did some of the research there to that conversation might be helpful because you could actually sit down and gain some perspective of what they were thinking. Um I did reach out to Mr. Melazzi. Unfortunately, they had a death in the family and so he hasn't been able to give me some more answers about the backup for that, but you know, in the next week or two, if you have a conversation with George and we can pull Massimo or Dave Gallo into that, um I'm sure that they can give you some more perspective there. >> Sounds good. Yes. >> Okay. Anybody else on energy? Committee questions? Um Chairman Will. >> Just real quick. So, >> We're upgrading. >> No, it's fine. The uh I hate where I'm sitting. I love

106you guys, but I hate where I'm sitting. The the um So, residential homeowners, you get it. You get a rebate. You're We don't. That goes back to the utility company or that goes to the state. Where does that go? >> So, on a power purchase agreement, which is called a PPA, that goes back to the third party that actually owns the panels. And that's usually a private investor, private equity, or green banks. Um so, there's there's it's not goes it don't go back to the school and it doesn't go back to the state. >> Right. Okay. So, we don't have a shot at doing that. So so um um the two I couldn't find it through in the in the budget. What's the What's the total estimate? Cuz I know kinetic energy costs have gone

107up over 13% just just in January alone. What What cutting out the 200 or trying to save or trying to find a savings of the 200? Like what percentage of that versus what What's our estimate? >> I'm actually going to speak to that if you don't mind. >> Yeah, please. >> So, our fiscal 26 budget is 1.273 million for electricity. But in fiscal 25, we paid 1. almost 6 million. So, we pay in fiscal 25, we paid 1.587 million. In fiscal 26, we anticipated a drop in the public benefit, which did not occur. And we only budgeted 1.2. So, we're already at a shortfall of over 300,000 before we even started the year. >> So, if we >> And when we look at fiscal 27, I budgeted 1.6 on top of where we are starting

108from the fiscal 25 money. >> Yeah. >> So, it's really only a 6 and 1/2% increase when you look at actuals versus budgeted. >> So, in other words, 1.6 last year plus just January alone, 13% increase, you're looking at 1.8-ish, right around there. And And we're we're hoping for one. 1 million. The The 1.2 minus the 200. Okay. Thank you. >> I think that the reason this was highlighted um is because there was a 30 or 35% increase year over year. And so, to the Board of Finance and I think those of us who have been looking at the numbers, because it's such a big increase year over year, maybe there's opportunities for savings, right? So, it became a it relative to the numbers we're talking about, it was a easy area to look at.

109And again, I think there's some suggestions from those members of the Board of Finance, but I don't want to speak for them. They're not here. We can have some conversations. >> it from Dave from Dave Geller or whoever that that's it's just we're just in this environment where energy is just through the roof right now. Hopefully that comes down. But you know, it's it's just unfortunate where we are and that's it's just something that's out of the control of the town. >> Okay. So, why don't we open it up now to committee questions? Anybody have any other questions outside of what we just discussed? >> I just want to flag two other things. >> Okay. >> Mary, um Dr. Sumwalt, the the questions you answered um that I had Margaret circulate to the full council,

110um there was one thing linked in there that didn't open for me. So, I sent you a note to just make sure that we can get that linked document. It was around um resignations and retirements. Whatever was linked in there doesn't open. >> It's interesting cuz I I did check that um it was actually created by uh Mr. Chella's office. So, I I just double-checked myself. It It did say open to anyone, so that link was made to anyone, but you're having People are having trouble opening it. >> Yeah. >> Interesting. >> No worries. We can figure it out. I just wanted to flag that and then >> good work. It was really good work. >> Well, I was excited to >> a long time to put that together. >> to look at it, but

111it doesn't open for me. Somebody else can try. Um and then making sure we get that page 5-2 of the budget book updated with um the administrative salaries where they say TBD. If we can just make sure to get that page updated and circulated to me and then I'll have Margaret circulate it to the council as well. >> Okay. It'll still say TBD. So, we can update it. Are you okay? >> Apologies. >> Oh. >> Not a pause. Um so that but the in in the salary lines for the upcoming it is say it like 5%. Is that a placeholder then? And the amounts that are in for the next year salary >> Where where do you see the 5%? >> In I have to get my book. Um in the salary line. Uh and

112the salaries that are in the current budget seem to be the salaries that are projected out already. So if you look at the 5% or if you go to the super I may not have it in here. >> So the the unaffiliated leadership staff do their contracts are not uh completed until after the budget process. So there is no increase until after the budget process. >> We usually have >> a budget We usually have a a board meeting on first board meeting in June where the Board of Education votes to approve uh and finalize all non-affiliated contracts. >> But if you look I guess the confusion we had was if you look in the current budget it has the amount listed that is in the proposed budget. Which has a say a 5% increase. >>

113Okay. >> Oh, thank you. Looking up the date I mean the pages. So the 2 Right here? >> Yeah. >> The 26-27 budgeted amount is the current amount. >> But it's showing a 5% and it's showing >> Because the 25-26 budgeted amount was the 24-25 amount. The budgeted amount is always the previous year's amount because we do not know the amount until after the budget is done. >> Make sure you're on a mic. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah, there's So, there's already I guess what we're looking at is as you said that when these salaries were negotiated and there's like a 100.02 or 100.01 as the bargaining unit settle. And so, you can see for those levels that they are already over the 100% and so, they have the amount in here for the current

11425-26 for the 26-27. So, that's why we were confused assuming that that means the 26-27 is then going to go up by the next amount. Is that what is happening? >> Yes, if if everybody receives an increase, then the 26-27 uh salary amount would be higher than what was budgeted. >> Okay. So, they're in for five. Okay. >> So, can we get those projections then for what? >> I do not have any projections for what the executive leadership salaries will be. >> The uh The board attorney works with the the Board of Education. They meet in executive session to talk about that in June. >> Okay. Um I just wanted to bring up one thing moving forward into you know, next year we're going to be right back here again. Um so, this isn't necessarily

115going to affect this year's budget. But um we did have conversation about Mounis. I believe I had to step out of the room during the Board of Finance discussion. But um I know that um, Mr. Chin had had mentioned that there could be potential significant savings um, in working with or synergizing, right, the town side of Mianus with the Board of Ed side of Mianus. Um, is this something that you would be open to having evaluated, having somebody from Mianus take a look at that and give give some um, you know, I don't know, give some overview to see if that is >> Yep. >> beautifully >> Just uh, from that discussion, um, there was appetite to look at it. It is not a process that would be able to be enacted. It's a huge

116task to combine those two things. So, the first thing was to look uh, to have the town and the Board of Ed look at whether Mianus uh, the whether we pay separate licensures and what that would look like if they were combined. It would also require um, probably a consultant to help merge because their accounting system or their account numbers and stuff would have to all be merged to match the stuff on the town. So, there is appetite to look at it. Mr. Kachala had um, spoken about it, but it is not something that would affect the next year. So, I just There you go, see? I actually I was paying attention. I was say this is a nice thing. So, it is it is something that could potentially have impact in the budget, but

117it could not be accomplished for next year. >> And just to that point, um, in terms of account numbers, like we are required to have certain account numbers and organization based on the state chart of accounts. So, we we would have to keep our chart of accounts per state statute. >> Okay. As long as there's an appetite >> Sure. Absolutely. Yep. >> Um, maybe get a get something moving there. Um, anything else? Anybody have more questions? We haven't heard from Councilman back there. Anything? >> Hi, yeah. I just know it's come up about the possibility of early retirement and considering that as a big savings. Um, it'll be interesting to see what the the bus efficiency survey says. Um, just flipping through the bus efficiency survey, I found it was interesting that it had an

118required open-ended response if it would affect you very negatively. Um, but I saw that was the only place that had an open-ended response for that one. Um, but I hopefully those get posted, too, because that's really important for the parents. Um, and that, you know, just the early retirement consideration. I know you mentioned people have been in town for a very long time and it's definitely saved us in the past and helped us in the past. And it's uh it's a savings that isn't just a single year savings. I mean, it builds on from year to year. Um, we know that Trumbull right now is at one of its highest percentages of teachers at the top step of the contract and the new contract does have a higher percentage for those top step teachers. Um,

119so just I I I I hope that still gets considered. Not that it has to happen, but that's a savings that doesn't impact the kids. Um, other than you you have some teachers retire. Um, but I know at our school, at the high school, at all the schools my kids went to, you know, I could name the teachers that came in from early retirements were some of our wonderful, amazing teachers uh here in Trumbull. Um, and then also with the bus, um, if the the tiered bussing does happen, I hope it's looked at with bus efficiency. As far as time on the bus, time at school for the kids, um, not the actual bus route. You can't do anything about that. Someone has to be the first on the bus. Someone has to be the

120last on the bus. Um, but many buses, for example, elementary will show up about 8:11, 8:12 for an 8:35 uh start time uh during the day. So maybe there's a way to make that more efficient. That might make it more palatable to the parents as far as you know the the later start or the later especially later at the day. That's where we see a lot of the early dismissals. Just efficiency with that. Um I know the pay for play is a concern for parents. I also I'm a pretty sure that any parent who needs that waved can get that waved. And then of course that becomes a funding issue but you know that's a great thing for scholarships with all the amazing fundraising that happens in Trumbull. So you know I never minded the

121pay for play when my kids went through but at the same time I understand we don't want anyone to not participate in something because they they feel they can. But at the same time you know that's a place for for savings. Um And then hopefully I I that testing gets looked at. You you talked about you know mandates and there's certain testing we have to do. Um but perhaps that's a place we can save money in Trumbull too as times have changed and when we get the results of testing what testing we need what we still need to spend money on. I know the Bookworms program is a huge expense and so you know I haven't heard that come up yet but that's I hope those things are considered as well as possibilities. Um uh

122for efficiency. Um uh and so I don't know if you have to speak on any of those but if any of those those things have been considered you know we we'd love to hear about it. >> Sure. I'll just I'll say in our responses back to you you can read you can read about our response for the the early retirement. We do have a response there so I'll say that. In terms of the survey I'd be careful to to share parents comments with with people because I don't know how much personal stuff they might have put in there, so I wouldn't want to share that. We I did make the decision for very uh if it's was very difficult for a family, I did want them to be able to comment on it. We do

123that with our social emotional our climate surveys. If somebody says uh Trumbull Public, you know, uh Daniels Farm Elementary schools is very unsafe, well, we want you to tell us why and not just be able to click very unsafe. So, when it comes to very challenging, we thought the same thing. You should You should tell us why it's challenging. It You know, and that way we can get a better sense of that. Um Uh yeah, we do think with the buses, you know, we if we do go to a three-tier system, we may uh find that, "Hey, the buses are actually getting or a little earlier. Maybe we can adjust our schedules even slightly differently the next year. Maybe um bring them back a little bit." Um Bookworms, you mentioned that's a that was a

124state-mandated expense. Our teachers are doing phenomenally with it. Uh our students are doing phenomenally with it. Um so, I'm sure I missed some of your your pieces, but uh those are those are some other ones I want to make sure I commented on. Oh, and the pay-to-play is a Yeah, I mean, pay-to-play used to be actually higher before. The pay-to-play was be able was reduced at some point. Um and now it seems like it's climbing back up and it seems like our board chair, Ms. Timpanelli, would like to say something. >> Steve, I don't want anyone to think if any student wants to play anything, they will play. We will not stop anybody from not playing. And I've been there a long time at Trumbull Public, and we it didn't matter if it was a

125graduation gown that they couldn't pay for or not going to the prom or anything like that or not affording pay-to-play as it is now, we will cover that and we find ways to do that. So, that will never happen. Any kid that wants to play for Trumbull public schools will play. >> Thank you, listener. >> Through the chair. Hi there. I've just got two questions. Um the first one is uh free and reduced lunch. Um is there any incentive to ensure that people are filling out forms for that cuz I don't believe it's a mandate right now. And then were any positions funded with COVID money previously? >> Sure. >> I'll take the food service one and then pass it over to Dr. Semmel. Um so for the food services, the free and reduced lunch

126forms, we have them in all of the main offices at the school. We have them in the cafeteria lines. Um we also have them online and I believe they're also part of um Mr. Molyneux's um uh monthly uh newsletter that goes out. Um also anytime a student has a balance uh a deficit on their MySchoolBucks balance, um an email gets sent to the parents along with an actual letter of, you know, a physical letter via US mail that also discusses the free and reduced lunch form and encourages them to fill it out. There's also um some information on if they would like um assistance filling it out or have questions about it, they can contact the food services um executive assistant and they can advise or help or assist. We do try to communicate that

127as much as possible when any whenever we see any type of student having difficulty. Um and Mr. Molyneux uh actually also speaks with all of our guidance counselors um at all of the schools and he works with them to identify any students or families that are also having problems and then we proactively reach out to make sure that the students are taken care of. >> Through the chair, I'm separate from having issues or problems as a proactive measure um to reimburse for ECS funding cuz it's one of their um metrics. >> Right. We've and I think it at the Board of Finance meeting someone had suggested that Fairfield was doing a great job. Um so I I had Mr. Molyneux reach out to the Fairfield Public Schools. Um he was not able to pick up

128any additional pointers. In fact, they took something from us in terms of what we're doing online um with some work. So we did when we do hear that there might be a district that has cracked the code in some way, we'll reach out and try to find out what they might be doing. Um So we feel like we're doing a very good job trying to identify those. It's for the families first most, but we also know that goes into the ECS formula. And then I think you asked a question about um uh if any of our positions are being paid by the COVID grant like any of the ARP ESSER grants. I think that ended in '23 or '24 or '24 '25. So we haven't had any ARP ESSER grants paying for a staff member.

129>> Previously, yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah, so Yeah, there was millions of dollars if you remember and and we talked about having to make sure we land the plane and and get away from that COVID money as we moved forward. So we tapered down how we were using those funds until they were expended. >> Thank you. >> Yep. >> Oh, just yeah. Council. >> I see you. >> I know everybody's chairman tonight. >> Chairman. >> Uh just um we had asked about the ECS and the ECR and sorry to confuse again. It was really for this year. I don't know if you've heard anything from um any of our state reps if there's been any movement on the ECS amount and then ECR since we seem to have such a um pretty significant jump in

130transportation and in student um you know, if we have I mean in special ed if we have any extra opportunity for this current year to receive more funds or if you are allotted allotted a certain amount and that's it. I don't know how that works. >> Yeah, ECR is um um >> And it's a percentage of, but since we've hit and look at I see Dean back there. >> Yeah, I was going to say he should probably respond to this. >> you know, the the budget has increased dramatically, I mean that's the big puller obviously cuz of the needs. So, I don't know if that puts us in the ability to receive more ECR or if we're still at that point where we've kind of hit our amounts and I think I'll stop rambling and

131you can >> I think next year we have an increase in our ECR budgeting because we are anticipating increased costs, but I'll let Dean speak to it in more specifics. >> Yeah, that's a tricky one cuz it's really based on the actuals. So, >> the amount for this this current year? >> year we we've we're anticipating to receive 2.2 million for this year in ECR. Which is slightly above what we actually budgeted for. So, So, it's like like 120 about like over $100,000. So, I haven't heard about anything about any other appropriations. So, we're just happy that we actually hit that number cuz last year we were at the table it was a little more precarious where it was significantly short funded that grant fund and that was going to create quite a catastrophic you

132know, budgetary cycle for us as far as managing the budget for last year. So, we're on target right now and and a lot of that is due to you know, just our our costs have our expenditures have gone up in that line item just to just student needs. So, and that that is captured somewhat in the the increase in our ECR reimbursement. >> Through the chair. Just to piggyback on that and I'm sorry I don't know this and maybe I should have asked Bill at some point. Are your social workers and mental health professionals getting reimbursed for Medicaid and Medicare? >> Yeah, yeah, they for billable services, yes, we do um Yes, we are in the Medicaid system. We do put in for those services for reimbursement. >> Any other questions? Here we go. And

133our first selectman >> So, just um this this afternoon Joe Colon and I were with the governor at an event and uh we took the opportunity to continue to advocate for more ECS funding for Trumbull. So, I I do believe there probably will be some. We don't know how much and I'm don't want to even guess. You know, I would like to think it would be significant, but it probably depending on what you think significant is. Um I don't expect it to be something that's going to be earth-shattering, but hopefully it'll be whatever whatever we get is better than nothing. So, but I don't have anything more to report at this this time, but hopefully soon. >> Big promises. >> Sorry? >> Big promises. >> So, if ECS dollars were increased for the town of

134Trumbull, that'd be a one-to-one dollar back rate to the Board of Education cuz those are those are Board of Education expected funds. Is that how that would work? Not in a bargaining mood, but those would be state dollars that the the state would be saying um should be used for education. I'm just wondering if that would be the I know it's I ask questions too, I guess at these at these meetings, too. >> Well, we'll discuss that when we when we get the money. >> Okay. All right. No promises then. >> Okay. Okay, I guess we'll close up. I can say for myself I'm really pulling for this survey to say all the right things. So, looking forward to hearing that. I know this just went out recently, but it was part of you know,

135the discussion with the Board of Finance and that 400,000 got dangled out there, so we're really um kind of hoping because that does save some of those those teachers that we saw up there. Um, and we certainly don't want to see the classrooms affected, the kids learning affected by you know, these budget constraints. So, um, but I do thank everybody for coming. Thank you team for coming and uh, can I get a motion to adjourn? Second? >> Second. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Oh, thank >> Mhm.