12/1/25 Weston Board of Education Special Meeting (Building/Facilities)

001Here we are. All right. Now that we have a quorum and there's Michael just great. Hi, Michael. All right. So, we now have more than a quorum. So, I'm calling the Western Board of Education special meeting to order at 7:02 p.m. And our first order of business is the Pledge of Allegiance. So, if we could stand and say that I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. Thank you. Um before we begin uh the official presentations tonight, I just want to review the purposes of tonight's meeting. Uh first of all, it's for all of us as board members, both old and new, to be refreshed with or gain a common

002background about the major studies and work beginning in 2017 and going up to June 2025 that examine the conditions of our four school buildings and defined and prioritized them their major needs. This will be a high-level overview given by Collier's and SLAM representatives. The purpose of tonight is also for the board to hear a general summary of the committees that have been formed along their the way and their work as well as the work of the board of ed, what the major focus areas were and any recommendations that came from that work. In addition, our purpose tonight is to gain an understanding from representatives from Collier and SLAM about the state process, timeline, and requirements for major school construction projects. And finally, the purpose tonight is for board members to share our thoughts about undertaking

003an ambitious timeline, the topics, the issues, the questions that you think need to be addressed. and suggestions for engaging parents and the larger community. And these thoughts will be the basis from which our EOC and communication subcommittees can work to outline the work ahead. So this is a lot to accomplish in one night and especially because my aim is to end no later than 900 p.m. and I would like to beat that if possible. I also want to thank especially our staff members who are out tonight for a special evening that they did not anticipate and also to thank the representatives from Collier and Slam for coming together at such short notice and for being willing to partner with us through this process moving forward. and to any and all members of the public who

004are listening and of course to our board members who also did not anticipate this evening uh when you signed up for the beginning of the year. So here we are and let me turn it over to Superintendent 40 uh and Phil to make uh introductions. >> Thank you Debbie. Um good evening. Uh thank you uh for being here. I'd like to introduce our colleagues uh and partners in this work who are here with us this evening. From Kers, we have Scott Pelman and Chuck Warrington. And from SLAM, we have Jim Hogland and Kemp Mohart. Um and uh again, thank you for the quick turnaround in this presentation. Um and we're looking forward to getting a baseline knowledge and some uh foundational information for our board of ed and our community members this evening. So, shall

005we shall we begin? Do you have any other business or should we just run jump right into it? >> No, thank you. >> Okay. Thank Thank you. >> Intro Scott with us in Slam real quick. >> Pardon? >> Why don't we do some quick intros? Um, >> yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know Erica introduced this, but yeah, my name is Scott Pelman. I'm associate director with Kio's project leaders. Um just real quick background. I've been an architect uh first 30 years I designed um and managed school projects and I've been with Kers for nine years now uh managing school projects for municipalities. >> Yeah, Chuck Warrington. Um good evening everybody. Um I'm the director of project management. I lead our Connecticut K12 and public K12 division in Connecticut. And um well Sky and I were

006experts and like to think we're experts in the uh office of grants administration process. Be happy to answer any questions. I've been with the company about a little over 12 years now and uh looking forward to working with you all. >> Yeah. Good evening. My name is Kemp Mohart. I'm a principal and architect with the Slam Collaborative. I've been with the firm 20 years. Been doing K12 work for 30 of my career. Um, I lead our K12 practice focusing on the Connecticut market. >> And I'm Jim Hogland, a project manager and a architectural designer with SLAM. And I've been working on public ed projects for for over 25 years. It's something that's really close to my heart. >> So, so I think you can hear that there's a lot of experience in the room tonight.

007So, I think uh we should be able to answer uh just about every question you may have. And um you know although the the presentation does look um you know a bit formal we'd like to keep it conversational um you know so please feel free to ask questions as we go through it. I think that'll be a more effective way of of sort of addressing those as we go through the presentation. Um, you know, and as as Deborah pointed out, um, again, it's going to be just a very high level overview of, you know, what's been done to date, some of the studies, what work has been done, and then talking about the process, uh, the state process of a grant and filing a project with the state of Connecticut, and then really what are

008the next steps, what do you need to do to keep the ball moving. Um so with that um if it's acceptable if I could share my screen. Okay. Is everybody able to see that? Oh, wait a minute. We got to hit the share button there. Okay. Can everybody see my screen? >> Yeah, we see it now. Okay. There we go. That's that up there. So, really quick, uh just a a quick agenda again. We're going to talk about what's been completed to date, the grant process, and that involves space standard calculations, state reimbursement. Um we're going to talk a little bit about what renovation status is, what does it mean, um some of the next steps, and ultimately the goal for for a project. So completed to date um you know we've been at this

009for quite a while back in 2017 uh Silver Petraelli was engaged and they did a phase one study which included a detailed facility condition assessment and options for specific capital projects not necessarily looked at the different schools school configurations but just at capital needs. um their uh their study, their FCA um was was fairly detailed. Um you know, and and I think um part of the the overall reaching of this is there's been a lot of good work done to date, but I don't think you need to recreate it. You know, I think we can move forward, but um you know, we've gone ahead and reviewed all of these reports. Um in 2019, Silver Petraelli was brought back. They did a phase two study. uh they explored uh three and four building configurations for the

010district. Again did some very high level budgeting but didn't really get specific into which projects what projects or what that project may be. Again it was it was very high level. Um the FOC that committee started meeting uh late in 2020 through mid 2022. Um coming out of that the the steam committee was formed um and began in the fall of 2021 meeting with the community. Um you know my understanding is they received input discussed different options with the community and between the FOC and the steam committees. The result of that was a 2022 Tecton study tecton architects and they looked at uh facility optimization. They explored what different options um you might be uh look you know able to to do only from the uh elementary grades up through the middle school. Their study

011did not include the high school. Um then the EOC committee was formed. They met in uh early December of 2022. Um started exploring renovation and new options. Um it's important to note at that time that that group did recommend staying with the current four school configuration. Um in May 2024 the board of ed voted to move the project forward and Tecton Architects was again retained and they completed an educational specification for a 68 middle school. That was the only edspec they did. Uh but the um the result coming out of their earlier study was that the facility that required the most attention, the immediate need was the middle school. Uh so they were directed to create an edspec for that school. Um later that uh that same year, Kier was brought in. Uh again, we

012then went ahead and we reviewed all of the previous reports, the Tecton reports, the Silva Petraeli reports, and we issued a summary of that information and recommendations on a path forward and I believe uh Phil may have provided the committee an updated report. I did update that last week. Uh was originally issued uh I think late in 2024. um and really just talked about the work that had been done uh the different studies evaluations uh the facility condition assessment and again didn't really need to recreate that but there were some gaps um you know some of the financial information uh looking at either a renovation or a new option used the same per square foot numbers to sort of calculate those costs. Um it wasn't really project specific. Um there was um some discussion of

013renovation, but it was never really explored was renovation um uh a a possibility for the district. Would the would the building itself support that? And again, that's something we're going to address a little bit further into the uh presentation and just discuss what what does renovation mean? What would it do for you versus a new school? Um that December uh our understanding is the v the board voted in favor of maintaining again the four school campus model and with that based on the recommendation from collers uh we put an RFP out in slam uh Mr. Mohart and Mr. Hogland who are here with us from this evening representing SLAM were selected to perform a renovated new analysis of the um existing middle school and the first phase of that task has been completed. Um I

014believe uh Phil there was a their executive summary report was attached to the updated Kier summary that we sent uh the end of last week. Um and that initial analysis confirmed that um on a very high level the structural system of the existing building would be able to support um being renovated. And with that I'm going to stop there for a minute because I've gone through the first two slides and I'll just see if there's any questions either for for colleers on the process or potentially slam on that first uh phase of the renovation um review. Um, I just have a question. Um, just some of the initials. I happen to know what the FOC committee means. Um, can someone fill us in? Fill the rest of us in. Is that the facilities optimization committee?

015>> I I believe that is correct. >> Yeah. And was that I think that also included members from the um the town government. Am I right about that as well? >> That is correct. that included a cross-section of both the board of represented from the board of finance, board of education and also the board of selectment. >> Okay. All right. I just think as you know um people coming to this presentation you know we're going to leave it up online etc. I just wanted to explain the the initials that are up there. So that's helpful. Thank you. And then the um EOC that's a board of ed subcommittee. Am I right? That's the educational optimization committee. Correct. So the >> correct that came right after the FOC. >> Got it. Okay. >> I also have

016similar basic question just to provide context. Can somebody please explain the difference between all of these organizations and their purposes and why they are all involved? >> Yeah, if you want Phil I I could take a crack at that. Um so there's a couple two major entities that you're hearing. So uh Silver Petraelli Associates and Tecton Architects and SL the Slim Collaborative are all professional architecture firms. All three firms do specialize have a heavy amount of uh expertise in school construction in design. Um and we're engaged obviously in the different uh time frames throughout the project. callers. We're um we can we're what we call an owner's project manager. Uh as Scott mentioned, he's an architect. I'm an engineer uh by background. Um what we we do is we help districts and owners and many

017different types of projects, but we specialize in education and leading, managing, facilitating school construction projects, guiding uh districts on the process kind of like we're talking about now. We help them build budgets. Uh uh and we also when a project uh becomes a project is passed so that with funding and is executed if we're brought on, we help you manage a project. We manage the financials. We help you select the designers, contractors, watch the quality of the work. Most importantly, we help you file all the paperwork with the state of Connecticut, the office of grants administration. That you might hear that acronym of OGA. Um, and that's what Scott and our team uh does um to basically ensure you're maximizing your reimbursement and getting what you're paying for. I kind of compare it to you

018go to court uh not small claims. Uh you typically hire an attorney because they know the law and they represent you. Similarly, uh we know construction and um we represent you as well. So I kind of make that that kind of slight comparison, but we were brought on as as mentioned in 2024, a little over a year ago, to kind of help look at all the studies and kind of figure what do we, you know, where do we go from here because there's a lot of studies and a lot of information. So that's why we were brought in to hopefully continue to help the district and come up with a plan. >> Thank you. That's helpful. And then what's the difference? um how do you differ from Silver Petraelli and Tecton and then now Slam

019is involved. >> Yeah. So if they were brought on board so they're licensed architects um that um we don't design. So at Congress we don't do any design. Um Scott used to um I used to do so myself but we don't design it. We manage process um budgets schedules and basically we're like the right arm for a district. Um, we provide an extended expertise to your staff to Phil and Mike and Erica and and and the the town as a whole, if you will, where uh if Slam was say engaged to design this project, they would actually take the educational specs specifications and put that plan onto uh a set of plans and specs in paper so that it could be bid out to uh a contractor to eventually construct. and we would help select

020architect. Uh we review their designs. Uh we help to do the estimating, make sure we're maintaining on budget, but they do the design. We help you as an owner's rep manage the process. And I and I think just the differences maybe just to expand on that, you know, we weren't involved in the initial hiring of Silver Petraelli or Techon, your first two architects. You dealt with it, did the facility evaluations, but normally you'd put together a proposal request, advertise for the services and interview the the different teams and look at their costs. Um so so normally um you know that's part of the selection process. Those first two studies, silver Petraelli was was selected from a specific scope of work. Um then Tecton was hired and then once Collier came on board um you know

021we identified a need to do a little bit of a deeper dive in the condition of the middle school and would it um would it qualify for renovation status. So we put together an RFP. We advertised that with the town. We received proposals back. We reviewed those proposals, looked at costs, looked at qualifications, and SLAM Collaborative was hired to do this next phase of the project. That's helpful. Thank you. >> Question. >> Any other questions? >> All right. So, just real quick, just so everybody understands the roles and responsibilities, um, you know, the board of education, um, you sort of oversee the project and you create help to create and approve the educational specifications which really defines the building project. So in essence, you have the EDSPEC, you review it, um you you ultimately approve

022it because it is a a document that needs to be submitted with a grant application. And then you give that to the town and say, "This is the project we want built. This is our education specification. This is our need." Then the town approves the project funding for it. So the town would vote whether different towns, sometimes a referendum process, sometimes an RT um representative town meeting. Um but the town approves the funding and then the board of selectmen are required to pass three resolutions uh that are statutory for the for the u grant application to file a grant with the state. First one authorizes the board of education to apply for the grant. So the board of education is the is the um governing body that will fill out the grant application and we

023normally sit with you hand inand and we assist you in doing that process. The board of selectmen would need to establish a building committee specific for the project to oversee the project and to oversee the money that the town has appropriated and and approved for the project and then authorize at least the preparation of schematic drawings. So that's sort of the hierarchy of of you guys determine what the project needs to be and is and it define it through the edspec. You tell the town we need this funded. The town approves funding. The board of selectman then sets up authorizes you to apply for the grant, sets up the building committee and then authorizes it be beginning of the preparation of drawings. So any any questions on sort of the process within the community as

024far as hierarchy, your roles. All right. Um so a little bit about the grant process. Some of you may know this, some of you are new to the board. So we wanted to just kind of walk you through this. So um you know, assuming you've got a a grant application's been completed, you've approved it. um you've passed your funding um you want to you want to file a grant application. So the grant application is is filed by the board of ed and the superintendent before June 30th of any given year. Um typically then once it's accepted by the state uh your project will get placed on a priority list typically in in mid December of that year. So let's just say you filed a grant by 2026 before June 30th of 2026. um the paperwork,

025the uh the package would go into the state. The state would say, "Yeah, we've accepted this." The state then would um they've accepted the project, put it on their priority list in uh typically by December 15th of 2026. That would then go into legislative approval and um then the legislative branch um in Hartford would vote on the approval of the project in typically end of June, early July of 2027. So you file a grant and it's typically a year later that the state authorizes the funding for the project. >> And Scott, just the opine Scott, the priority list kind of we're talking about terms. That's a a specific list that the office of grants administration has to submit by to the governor statutoily no later than that December 15th date. They have to submit it.

026It's always dated the 15th. That's a list of all the projects that the districts throughout the state submit to them. And it's a comprehensive list that'll ultimately go into what we typically call the education bill that Scott talks is talking about in June or July of the following year. Now, the the state bases their grant commitment um on the highest projected stool student enrollment within eight years after the date you file your grant application. So, um we did just receive some some very new uh recent projections. Uh this presentation says 547. The high range you're you're right in that uh looking at the years 33 34 3435. So depending on when you file your grant application uh you know the 547 number that we've used here in this presentation is is fairly accurate. Um but

027the state will then and we'll go through that a little bit more as we get into this presentation. That's the the what the state bases how much um money or what size of a building that they'll reimburse you for um whether it's a renovation or a new project. Um and they take the student population and they create a space standard calculation. Again, that space standard calculation, we'll show you that momentarily, that determines the size of the building that the state will reimburse. It doesn't mean that you can't build more. Um, you know, let's just say, for example, the state will pay to, you know, reimburse 92,000 square feet and you want to build a 100,000 square feet. You can do that. But what the state will do then is they'll re they'll reduce the amount

028of money that they're giving to the project. They're not going to pay for that extra square footage. And there's a formula for that. So, this is just a page. This is uh you know probably a little small on your screen but this just shows you the space standard calculation. Um I've got the highest projected enrollment here right now that we used 547 and you insert numbers based on the grade configuration and the number of students in the school. What that does is it calculates for the state standpoint the maximum they're going to building size that they would reimburse you on which would maximize your reimbursement. So right now based on the population of 547 and again you're you're right in that neighborhood with the latest projections the state says well to maximize your reimbursement you

029can either renovate or build new a building just shy of 93,000 square feet. Now, to put that in context, your current building uh for your population is 147753, just shy of 148,000 square ft. So, the building that you're currently in based on what the state says we'll reimburse you on is is oversized. Um, and this isn't unique just to your middle school, but all four of your buildings um, in town are oversized based on solely based on the state uh, space standard calculation. Doesn't mean you're not using all the square footage or there's unique programs. U, but just as the state's concerned, um, your buildings are oversized. So, I say at the at the bottom here, and you can see the percentage here, 62.82%. So what the state would do is they're going to reduce

030your reimbursement rate. You would take your reimbursement rate and multiply it by 6282 and that would be your adjusted reimbursement rate if in fact you built new or renovated the full just shy of 148,000 square feet. >> So I'll stop there momentarily. Yep. >> Yeah. I just wanted to pause there to make sure to see if there's any questions because this concept can be confusing at first if you haven't seen it before. Um, many times, um, there's the interpretation that the state won't pay for the square footage above the 92,000. What it's actually doing is they're, as Scott said, they're reducing your reimbursement rate that is applied to the eligible cost for the project. And it and we like sharing this because when drafting the ED specs and looking at looking at the different options,

031it's important to understand what that what that does to your estimated share that you're going to either pay and the reimbursement you're going to receive. And we want to maximize your reimbursement. So understanding these numbers and and how it affects your finances to the project is really important. This is a major factor in doing that. >> Okay. Um, if if I could interrupt and I and I realize the space standard I I really want to talk more about that, but there was a page before when you talked a little bit about the steps of who's applying and who's approving. Um could you um at some point and I don't mean to take you off off track but at some point can you talk a little bit more about the the timing um in terms of

032applying for a state grant the town approvals and then a referendum you know like just how does all that fit together? Um, you know, sometimes we hear you've got to get the the um the grant application in before a referendum and then there seems to be a possibility, well, maybe you can get the grant application in after a referendum. >> And then of course, you know, the fine-tuning in terms of where the board of selectmen comes in as well. So, I don't know if that's if you're going to go into that later, that's fine, but I just don't want to lose that question. >> No, I think that's a that's a great question. Thank you. And no, I think I think probably now is a good time to address it. So, in order to file

033the grant application, again, let's just use this this June 2026 as as the target date. Um, you know, the board would have to have, and I think you already do have an approved EDS spec. So, you would just have to I guess probably just take a quick look at that. Again, this board make sure that all your needs were addressed. Um, any time before you file the grant, the board of selectmen would need to pass the three resolutions that are on the screen. Setting up a building committee, authorizing the board to apply for the grant, and the preparation of the schematic drawings from the town approves the project funding. Um, you know, every town looks at this a little bit a little differently depending on if you are a referendum town. the state has allowed

034the board, the board of finance, board of selectmen to um commit to a referendum um prior to uh you needing to submit the full project or prior to the project going in to the um priority list. So again, let's just say you you had everything done and the board and and board of selectmen, board of finance approved a referendum for November 4th of the fall of 2026. Um so the state would allow you to file the grant application. You would just file the motion that put that referendum in place saying we're committing to a referendum, committing to approving the funding prior to the priority list going into the legislative branch. You would then just need to, assuming the project passed, get the certified election results by November 15th and get that into the state. That's

035the deadline. So, you have to have your funding if you want to get onto the priority list for the f that following year. Your deadline to get your approved funding would be November 15th of that year. Now, you can also approve funding prior to making a grant application. So, let's just say that um things are moving a little quick. You need a little bit more time to bring the project forward to the community, educate the public, uh make sure you've got all your tees crossed, your eyes dotted. You could always have a fall referendum or even spring referendum, either fall of 26 or spring of 27, and you could have your project funding approved prior to the grant. and then you would file for your grant application by June of 2027. So there's there's a

036number of ways you can look at, you know, what the timing of your funding is, which gives you more opportunities potentially to, you know, make sure that you've you've done your diligence on the project, but it's always no, it's always June of a given year when you file the grant. And it's always one year from that point where the state is going to commit to funding the project. Okay, that's that's going to be really important for us because um you know as we look at the work that we have left to do um you know and we'll hear more board members thoughts but um I am making the assumption that it might be more than reviewing the current educational specifications you know so we have sort of a lot of information a lot of studies

037we need to review all those we may look at different options etc etc So it's it's very important to us that we understand the the referendum is like okay that's that's say in November but a grant could be applied for in either um ahead of it in like 26 spring of 26 June of 26 or even June of 27 with the same referendum. >> Correct. >> Because we are a referendum town. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I don't mean to hog the time um but I just think it's important that all of us um just keep keep those options in mind. I think that's really helpful and it was something new to me. So thank you. >> Can I just just one quick clarification on that, Scott? So, if we can't make the June 2026 deadline,

038we could still have a referendum in November and from that referendum hit the June 2027 date. >> That that is correct. >> Great. >> Yeah. And and I just picked November. You typically people have, you know, referendum. They don't want to have a special election. So, depending on the town, if they want to have a special election, typically it's on election day in November. Um, but you could certainly have your funding any time prior to June 30th of 2027. You know, if you if you even slid past November of 26. Again, we're just recognizing the fact that most communities in most cases like to have a single election. >> Yeah. What's important to understand here is that the project starts in earnest and is eligible for reimbursement upon funding authorization. It's not upon when you

039submit your grant application or when the grant commitment is provided that year later. And that's really important to say. We had one uh district years ago, they were waiting, they had funding authorized, they submitted the grant and they were waiting until the grant commitment that that June July time frame. They were losing time on the project. They were losing escalation costs. So, it's really important to understand that as soon as you pass funding, you can start um procuring design services and professional services to get the project going. The only difference is when you can submit reimbursement requests to the state of Connecticut. You can't do that until you have the commitment. So, it's well when when we get deeper into this, we'll put together a timeline to to to graphically show those different scenarios for

040you. So, you can see it kind of graphically, but I want to make sure you know that it's when it's the funding's authorized is when it's eligible for reimbursement for the state of Connecticut. >> Yeah. and and so the so so the the good news there is assuming a November referendum either a grant in 2026 or a grant in 2027 we would always recommend as soon as your funding is approved and let's again use that November date that again it's as Chuck laid out we would put an RFP out hire the architect start the design services immediately because let's just say it's I mean and I'm going to pick a number this isn't a number if that's that's that's actual but let's just say for for ease a hundred million dollar project and we're looking

041right now at year-over-year escalations of about 4.5%. Construction costs are increasing. So to lose a year, you're looking at losing $4.5 million. Now, you can start designing the as soon as your as soon as your funding is approved, we can start the design process. and whether we put the grant in in 26 or 27. All that really affects is when this when the town can go back to the state and say, "Hey, reimburse us now for those design fees." If you put the grant in in 27, it's going to take you're going to have to carry those design fees a little longer. But looking at at a project of this size, typically it's 18 months to to design it on average. So whether you file your grant in 26 or 27, as long as you

042passed your referendum in November, in either scenario and started design, your opening date of the school wouldn't change. The only thing that changes is when you can go to the state and say, "Start reimbursing us for some of the money that we've already spent starting at that funding approval in November." And and I think that's probably as deep as we want to get into it now, but we can start again looking at different scenarios and showing you different macro schedules of how all this lays out in the future. But I think for for this evening, we've probably thrown enough at you as far as that subject goes. So any any further questions there? So this is just a a copy right now and I've I've highlighted Weston of the state reimbursement right now. Um these

043are the 26 numbers. They re-evaluate it every year and change it every year. Um but right now and it's and it's based on wealth of the community. Uh right now your new construction rate is 12.5%. So that is the maximum that the state would reimburse you is 12.5% of that of a project uh for the eligible work. And again, we'll talk about that in in in momentarily. And if it was a renovation project, the state um would reimburse you at 22.14%. And again, that would be the maximum uh you can see the numbers down here at the bottom of the page. Um the maximum reimbursement for eligible work. So going back to the space standard, if right now the space standard for 547 students says you can either build or renovate a project just shy

044of 93,000 square ft. If you ended up with a project at completion that was 93,000 square ft. Instead of this being reduced 62.82% this would be 100%. So you'd get the full 12.5% 22.14% of the eligible work. But again, in in the case the example that we did right now, because the building's oversized, you would take these two numbers and multiply them by 68, and that would be your resulting reimbursement rate on the eligible work. And I I'll stop there for a moment. Any questions? This is another potentially obvious and basic question, but is there any chance that the grant does not get approved in the amount that you're showing us? >> You mean as far as the reimbursement rate or or or a particular grant once >> apply for the grant and is once

045you're >> says no or not? >> Yeah. Once the project has been accepted, the grants's been submitted and they've accepted it and they've placed it on the priority list. Um, I've only seen one year, I think when we had a I think it was 2008, uh, I think it was that recession where the state put off funding the projects until the fall. Um, so instead of June, July, that vote didn't happen, I think, until September or October. Um, but I have personally not seen the state, if especially if it's a priority project placed on the list, uh, priority A, I have not seen the state, um, fail to fund a project. Now, I can't say that that couldn't happen, but you can certainly get a good read on that from your local legislators. Um, talk

046to them, get a sense of of, you know, commitment and where the where the where Hartford stands. Um, but I think once you're on the priority list, it's it's a pretty strong um, you know, assumption that you're going to be fine. >> Just wrote another quick question on that. Can grants be stacked? Are there other potential grants that we might be eligible for so they can be stacked? >> Um, in in the past the state used to take back if you you got some other grants for other areas. I think they've kind of rescended that um you know whether it was a grant for energy efficiency through Eversource um you know specific to that standpoint that the state isn't taking back their percentage on that further. Um, but as far as a major funding grant,

047um, you know, I'm not sure what that avenue might be. >> Yeah, I know in a case like for there is like the IRA, I think it's IRA tax credits. Um, I know a couple districts are looking at those and the language is kind of flip-flopped. I would certainly want to reference and go back to the latest legislation on that because it depends on when the grant application was filed. So, um there are cases where they they allow you to keep that money and you can kind of I'll say double dip it for lack of a better term. Um but prior years that yeah, they would reduce it from that. They would ask you what's your other funding sources besides uh bonding the project or however you finance it for that. So, that's something we

048we definitely want to again revisit that. It kind of changes quite often and we want to make sure we're, you know, on top of that. So, um, you you've probably heard me say a few times now of, you know, what is the eligible work? Um, so the state doesn't pay their percentage of ineligible construction. So, what is eligible and what is not eligible? So, the the simplest one is anything over your property line. If you were tying in to utilities, if you had to run a gas service an extra quarter of a mile down to your project, um anything that came that was over the property line to make any connections, opening up the road, those types of things the state doesn't pay for. Even though it's required for your project, the state says if

049it's over the property line, we take that right off the top. Um and we've already touched base on on the second bullet here, the square footage over the space standard. Um so there the space standard calculation as we showed could can reduce depending on the final size of the building um your reimbursement rate and that again is applied to the eligible construction. There are avenues for requesting space waiverss if you have unique programs in the facility. Um, sometimes if you're renovating an older building and it has um, you know, very large corridors or very efficient layout, there are some avenues that you can explore to try and mitigate some of those uh, to gain back that extra square footage, but that's really a a case-byase basis that's evaluated um, and and each separate project by

050the state of Connecticut. Um the sheet that we just looked at, the previous slide, um again showed you the state reimbursement, what your rates are for the fall, you know, started posted for 2026. Again, those get re-evaluated every year. Um typically, they don't change by a lot. Uh we have seen a new methodology by the state that was just enacted. Used to be that the reimbursement and the new rate were always 10 percentage points different. Now they're you're they're a little closer. Um, you know, I would have loved to seen yours a little closer than they they currently are, a little higher on the new construction. Um, but again, typically those change year-over-year. Um, the the the next bullet talks about um repair and replacement, those nasty what we say the Rword. um the state

051if you don't get renovation status and we'll talk about that momentarily. Um the state doesn't pay in most cases for a repair replacement. So let's say all your doors were in terrible condition or all your plumbing fixtures were were just shot, your toilet partitions and you wanted to do that as part of a capital project. The state's not going to reimburse for that. Um the capital projects the state will reimburse are things such as HVAC indoor air quality. Now, they've just started supporting indoor air quality, which is which is wonderful. Um, new roofs. The state will support to put a new roof on the building. Um, they will not uh, you know, support windows and interior finishes. So, anything else if within a project, if it's a repair or replacement of an existing system, the

052state will not pay for that. Now, there is an avenue to get the state to pay for all that. If you if you're going to renovate the building and it's um getting renovation status, um renovation status isn't automatic. Uh you need to put together documentations and again the first phase of that uh was recently completed by SLAM. Um you have to put in an application and the application is evaluated once your grant goes in. Um so unfortunately and we've had this argument with the state, this the state won't meet with you. They won't tell you they're going to grant you a renovation status before the grant goes in. You have to tell them this is the project we want. Here's the project we're filing it and we're also filing it in requesting renovation status. But

053what renovation status does and there's there's criteria to achieve that goal is it it takes everything that's a repair or replacement and makes it eligible, but it also requires you to update the entire facility. So here's the statute here. um section 10282. It's a school building project that totally refurbishes an existing building. It results in a like new facility. Now, here's one of the keys. It has to cost less than building a new facility. So, that's one of the key criteria here. So, if you wanted to pursue a renovation and and not build new and you wanted to completely renovate the building, in order for the state to provide that extra percentage and and and cover all those repair or replacement items, you'd need to put together the package for renovation status and get that

054approved by the state. Um, you know, the the criteria here you absolutely apply for. you'll once it's renovated um you'll have to the architect and the team would certify that everything's going to last uh for a period of 20 years and 75% of the facility has to be um at least 30 years old which your building is. um some of the additional criteria and again here's the key uh that the design team now slam when we hired them we did not have this information in the previous silver Petraeli previous Tecton studies they talked about renovation status but they never really looked at the building and said would the building qualify for renovation status um so again we put the RFP out we hired Jim and D and um and Kemp um to come in and

055they performed the the first part of it and they've provided a letter uh to us and I I believe you know the board should have it that um the building from a structural standpoint is sound and the building is appropriate for renovation and again um you know the next step um which would be part B is doing a much deeper dive into that looking at the systems looking at what it would cost to renovate the building potentially right sizing the building and then working with collers to determine if the cost to renovate date is less than constructing new. If the answer to that is no, you won't be able to achieve renovation status. So, it would either that then your choice point would be we can do some capital improvement projects in the majority of

056which we won't get reimbursed for or build a new building. And I'm going to stop there for a minute because I'm sure you you probably have a few questions. >> I don't want to Well, I'll be the first one then. How does this renovate as new relate to the um space standard? For instance, you've pointed out that our building is oversized for reimbursement under a new construction. >> So, how does the being oversized affect renovation status? I'm not I'm not clear. >> It's the it's the same criteria. the the space standard and the space that the um the state will reimburse you on doesn't change. Um you know the only thing you can do is you could you could again you could apply for a space standard waiver and if you had very unique programs

057um you know within the building you can say we need this additional square footage because of X Y and Z and justify it in a letter. Point out the space point out the unique programs that are unique to your community. Um, you know, for example, we've worked in some underserved communities that had 30 to 40% as ESL, English as second language. So, you know, normally you might see one classroom for ESL services. Um, in this case, they had a they had a few classrooms supporting the ES ESL program. So, that was a unique program feature. We said went to the state and we said, "Look at our demographics. This is an underserved community. We have a lot of non-English-speaking people here." um and they granted a space waiver for that additional square footage. But from

058a a renovation standpoint or a new standpoint, the reimbursement percentage, they're always just going to look at the the space standard and the square footage. >> Okay. Um what's your experience been with um uh achieving renovate as new uh standard or status um in terms of the districts you've worked with or experience you've heard about? Is this impossible to get? Is it like it's not that hard? >> Absolutely not. We we we we achieved it at region 14. We're finishing up Windham High School, which was renovated as new. I've got two projects right now underway in Hartford that are renovated as new status. But, you know, that's the reason you hire the design team. Um, you know, to do that that work upfront and and to say, "Yes, we can meet this. You know, we've

059the building is sound. the building is appropriate to be renovated as new and the cost to renovate would be cheaper than building new. Again, if if if you can't hit that criteria, the state, you know, don't submit a renovation status application because the state's just going to going to going to say you don't qualify. I actually had a a project in Hartford. Um we weren't unfortunately involved in the in the upfront and the precon um work. They filed a grant assuming they were going to get renovation status and but they wanted to hire the architect, you know, we worked with them to hire the architect after the the grant went in and unfortunately this one project didn't qualify. We had to change to a new construction. It delayed the project by a significant amount of

060time. So again, that's one of the reasons we've got slam with us. Um because that's a very key component in you understanding and choosing your approach. Um, you know, because, you know, certainly your your reimbursement rates aren't as high as some other communities. Um, but, you know, every dollar is precious and you want to make sure that you're making decisions both educationally, what's the best educationally for the students in the community and the long-term investment, but also financially. And you need that that information. >> Um, when you when uh when you're talking about renovation, sometimes you don't know. I mean, my impression is that building a new building, you're kind of more certain of, you know, there are fewer surprises. when you go in and get into a renovation situation, how can you possibly predict

061the surprises and then you could end up being, you know, not, you know, in other words, if you have to build in so many contingencies, how does that fit into um applications when you have great unknown things? >> Yeah, that is part of of the budget evaluation. Certainly, you know, if we're renovation status versus a brand new construction, we are absolutely we're going to carry more contingencies for those construction unknowns and that's going to drive the price of a renovation project up further. Um, you know, certainly again, if you're renovating versus building new, you don't have really any place to put these kids. So, you're going to be renovating an occupied building. that process is is probably going to take a year to a year and a half longer minimum than just building a brand

062new facility and moving into it. So all of those costs, the escalations, the general conditions, the time of construction, when we look at total project cost and we submit that to the state, we have to take all of that into account. And if a renovation project, taking all of those factors into account, isn't less expensive than building new and and the architect has to sign on a document that says, "Here's the estimates and renovation is cheaper than new. If we can't get that, um, you know, then then you've you've got to just be go pursue the new construction." Well, and conversely, there's a statute that if we can prove that constructing new is less in renovation, you can request and apply for the additional percentage points, right? >> That a general that that higher reimbursement.

063We did that in the town of Madison. We received 10 additional uh points for uh drafting a letter demonstrating that building their new elementary school uh would be it was almost equal. It those barely lower, but they still provide that. That that resulted in probably about $5.8 $8 million of reimbursement for that district because of that. >> Okay. I think you just confused me. Can you say that again? >> Yeah. So, um we're we're we're we're saying here in a renovation status that we have to in order to obtain that status, you have to prove that renovating is less than building new. Um there's a statute that states that if you were to elect to build new a new building and demonstrate with, you know, sound judgment and numbers and budgets that building new is

064less than renovating the building uh and it hasn't been done a lot. If you can prove that and they agree with it, they can have the option of granting you the higher reimbursement rate, in this case 22.14% for proving that. And they'll give you that higher amount because they they wanted to they want to renovate buildings, but if we can prove it's cheaper to go new, the statute says they can give you the additional percentage points towards a new building. >> Okay. Okay. And then when you say renovate as new, does that mean that you just keep the same foundation? What exactly does renovate as new mean? >> Yeah, you would keep the same foundation. You could uh remove portions of the building, build new wings as long as you maintain more than 50% of

065the existing building when you're done with the project. But it's all new electrical, all new plumbing, all new mechanical systems, finishes, ceilings, lighting, you name it. It's it's outside of the bones of the building. Everything is brand new. And it also doesn't mean you can't knock down walls, reconfigure program spaces. Um, you know, typically, you know, we're not if if it's existing walls and you're working in an existing box, let's say your gymnasium and and again, part of this renovation process is is the design team saying the building is structurally sound. Well, we're not going to touch those foundations and those exterior walls, but we may take out all the bleachers in the sports floor and put in all new mechanicals, lighting, finishes, flooring, new bleachers in that gymnasium. >> Okay. And I just I

066just um Okay, this is helpful and I'll probably come back for uh repetition because uh Chuck's point of you reach a point where wait, you know, it's it's just as it's cheaper to build new. I mean, it's just like confusing, but anything to help us um be eligible if it comes to it for more reimbursement is exactly uh the route we need to take. And um it seems like from last spring the the differential between renovating as new and building as new wasn't that great. So, we may be in that unique situation of being able to prove that, you know, to Chuck's point. So, anyway, I'm sorry. Continue. Um, so next steps, we're we're almost to the end and then we can certainly open it back up for some further discussions. Um, so you know,

067as I stated, um, currently SLAM has completed that phase one of the renovation evaluation. So they've confirmed to us structurally the building's not going to fall down. We can renovate the building. It's going to last. It's it's there's there's still a a sound foundation there to the building. Uh the second part of that is for them to really look at the systems and all the other components of the building. How much work is that going to need? Can the building really be reconfigured and optimized to meet your educational specification? Um and then work with us on that cost estimate so we can evaluate the cost of renovating or building new. So that's really kind of a critical next step. uh right now you know they they've only completed phase one so they need that authorization

068to do that next step. Um again we you know we understand that the board has um you know approved uh the four school uh keeping with the four school um district. Um certainly I think you know maybe looking at our our summary of the previous studies and just confirming once again that the grade configuration is the best educational model for the district. Um we did just receive the the uh updated population study. So actually on this one I could I can check the box there. It was I think it came in on November 17th. Um, you know, once we we know, um, you know, we've got clear direction from you on what the project is, um, you know, six through eight middle school, we're going to be working with SLAM. We'll start putting together schedules

069and budgets for either scenario, renovation or new. Um, you know, certainly we're not going to take renovation very far. If SLAM comes back and says, you know, hey guys, there there's just no way we're going to meet it. There's no way we can we can do this. then we'll we'll we'll you know meet with you and start looking at those. But we'll start developing um schedules like we've talked about now with some of those different options of when we file the grant, when we file for, you know, when we have a town referendum. And then we'll work with the town and you to develop that referendum timeline and coordinate the grant applications, you know, potentially either in 2026 or 2027. And then really the final slide which is really kind of the goal um you

070know really you're you're looking to provide a you know 21st century school create a building that meets the edspec address some of your long and shortterm deficiencies mechanicals electrical plumbing reduce maintenance costs code related issues and you know the last one's really really I think important here as well is is you know maximize natural light and sustainability there's a lot of of interior windowless rooms in that building um which makes it really challenging. It's not a great environment for learning. Um you know natural light really is is a very positive factor on learning um in educational facilities. So I think again um it may come down to if the costs are close and again this is something that we'll need to provide you with the data and the tools to help evaluate. But you know

071could you renovate the school and and let's just say the answer is yes but the costs are so close then then it's a matter of should we you know educationally can the existing facility meet the edspec and provide you know a suitable learning environment on on par with what a new facility might be able to offer. So again, those are are some of the tools and the information that we're going to be giving to you to help you make that that final evaluation and then recommendation to the community. And with that, I will turn it over to any questions. God, I have a question about reimbursement. Being that the middle school is currently oversized and if we were to entertain grade reconfiguration, how do the two things work together? In other words, if the middle

072school is properly sized or sorry, the middle school's oversized for the 678. >> Mhm. But if there was spare capacity, which by I guess reimbursement rates there is the the and and the school got reconfigured and let's just say hypothetically another grade was added to it or two grades were added to it as part of this project. How does that affect reimbursement? >> Well, so right now we're we're doing your space standard calculation just based on your three grades, sixth, seventh, and eighth grade. Um so we would add in um the the the fifth grade which is another 152 uh students or or square foot per student. Um so if you can just be give me one moment here. Uh just because this is a a PowerPoint so it's not a live document. Uh let

073me get to my calculator. So that would change your multiplier from from 16 68 you'd be at 164 square feet per student. But now your student population is going to go up because your 547 is based on 678. So I'm just going to divide that by three right now. Um again this isn't this isn't super accurate. And now I'm going to multiply it by four because you'd have four grade levels. So that' be roughly 730 children, students. So 730 times 164, it would bring you up to just shy of 120,000 square ft. >> Okay. So >> So you'd still be oversized, but by adding more students into the building, it increases the amount of square footage that the state is going to reimburse you on. >> Okay. And I think that was a basis of

074my question was if the population of the school increased, there was a grade reconfiguration. >> Mhm. >> Uh if we only did F 6 7 8 and a renovate as new and we took the school down to 92,000 square ft. >> Mhm. >> But there was a desire to at least look at adding additional grades into that building. that should all be determined as part of the design because it sounds like what you're saying is if you added more grades to that building. Uh the the reimbursement would the the the re the building is not we're not pigeonholed into a 678 configuration as part of the renovate or build new. There is the ability to reconfigure the grades in that school and potentially c uh we'd have we'd have higher square footage and by adding

075more grades into that building. The state wouldn't say we're only going to reimburse you based on your highest projected enrollment for 678. They >> no. As long as you you would you'd have to modify your educational specification for a 5 through eight school. And and again, you know, I I don't know educationally if that makes sense for your community and the way you're set up right now, but that certainly is is a board decision. then the building could be rightsized. So again, just because you're doing renovation status or you want to renovate the existing building doesn't mean you have to renovate all 147,000 square ft. You could build a brand new wing adjacent to the building and then tear down the majority of the academic wing and you know, let's let's just say get it

076to 93 or 95,000 square feet in the end. As long as you maintain at least 50% of the existing building, you still qualify under renovation status. So you can rightsize the building. You don't have to renovate the full 147753 and that would have a positive effect on this this potential grant reduction. Again, if if you're you're allowable and current and when I say current, this is your current facility, but this is the this is the size of the building at the completion of the project. And if again, if it was that be 100% and you'd be, you know, either at 22.14 or 12, but again, depending on our previous discussions, if we can prove that it's cheaper to build new than renovate, then you you'd get that number, >> right? But the the basis of

077my question wasn't it was it was I think I think you answered it just to make sure I understand if there was a decision to look at adding a grade to that building or two grades or or or nothing whatever the case may be. If there was a decision made or design requested that more grades were added to that building, we would and the square footage needed for those four grades, those five grades, whatever it is, was 110,000 or 120,000 square feet, all 110 120,000 square feet would be eligible for the reimbursement. >> Okay. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. it. They're always going to make whatever whatever class configuration and number of students you have that support that class configuration. So again, I I just took the 547 divided by three and then multiplied it

078by four because now you'd have a four grade school. Um you know, and it was just over 700 700 students, 730. So the state would reimburse you on a on a school for 730 students times their space calculation which in this case with them would be 164 instead of 168. And the reason it goes down slightly is they give you 176 ft for 8th grade, 176 ft for 7th based on this school size, then 152 for sixth, and if you go up into the chart, here's fifth grade, 152. So that the state assumes seventh and eighth grade have specialty spaces like science labs and some other spaces that are larger. So they give you a little more square footage as the grade levels progress. Um so you're adding it you're adding more you're adding potential

079for more square footage. You're bringing your student population up to 730 but your multiplier goes from 168 and reduces slightly down to 164. >> Okay. Um, and David, I don't mean to cut you off, but I am looking at the time and I am sorry for I was a time eater more than you. Uh, but I do want to allow time for the board of ed members um to uh try to um give us your thinking about the the timeline that we're potentially looking at uh in terms of um a referendum in November. uh and then you know then we could fine-tune that later and as to when a grant application went in and also you're thinking about what issues or what topics uh that you would like to um include in our study and

080I think David's point um about what about you know this grade going um you know perhaps into uh you know a different grade configuration I guess is what I'm saying. So, if that's one of your issues as well, like let go ahead and let's put everything on the table that you think we ought to uh be looking at. Um it's been a while since these studies have been done, but we're all living in Weston. We've all heard from our neighbors um from various um uh you know uh people who have been in town for a long time, people who've been in who've not been in town for long at all, parents, people who don't have parents or don't have kids in the schools. So kind of give us your thoughts and what issues you would

081like to grapple with. Um you heard um and thank you very much um callers tonight in that you know kind of focusing on the middle school but don't feel hemmed in um I would just sort of advise that like start with what you really want to look at what questions you really want um to investigate and um you know we'll take it from there. So I don't know who wants to start first. Lisa, do you have your hand up for that? >> I do. So, >> hey, go for it. >> There's they they've put a lot of interesting things on the table. Scott Pelman spoke about not only is the middle school oversized, but so are many of our other buildings. And so, David brought up um grade configuration. And I think we need to

082look at all the buildings, the amount of space that they have, and what grade configuration looks like. We talk about the building being 147,000 square ft, but we're only allowed 93,000 square ft. And I know David was talking about putting more grades in the middle school, but you know, cost is a real factor in what we're looking at. Can another grade go, let's say, into WIS. So now it's not six, seven, and eight. Maybe it's seven and eight. And so we're going to need a smaller building instead of a larger building. And I think we need to look at those different configurations. and the size of the buildings as as all of this information has been brought to light. >> Yeah, I would encourage you to to go back and to visit the the last

083Tecton study um as well as the summary that Kier's put together that I just updated on 1126 2025 the Weston public school summary of information and path forward. Um, so that gives you kind of a high level discussion of building sizes, current building sizes, that they're over square footage. But Tecton, the Tecton study was the one that started looking at different grade configurations and options. Um, so I think that would be a good starting point for this this committee. >> Thanks a lot, Scott. >> All right. Thank you, Lisa. Um, who would like to go next? >> You know, I'm going to call on you, Peter. Right, >> Peter. Would you be willing to weigh in? >> Oh, certainly. This is a great summary. It's deéja vu all over again, but greatly appreciated. I do

084have actually an out of the box topic for discussion in the future. And this is for colleers, but because it's a it's a different perspective. Have you guys ever been the project managers on building a new magnet school? Yeah. Um, not a new one. Um, and I think there's different types. Um, I think Slam has too, but uh, um, New Lond City, New London, they're actually a magnet district. Um, we did an alteration project to their middle school because their majority of their building was less than 30 years old. It was 1994. Um but that was an alteration extension type project and with a lot of ineligible that Scott was alluding to um before it. Um but with the magnet schools and I welcome Ken and Jim and Scott's opinion on this. I think um

085my understanding is the state is going to be looking at those type of applications uh probably more stringently um due to the I think my understanding the intent of the magnet is to provide offerings of your you know adjacent other you know other districts um uh and different offerings for those. So I I I think that um I think Kemp did you guys you guys didn't work in the Greenwich one did you? We've done we've uh designed several magnet schools for various districts, but um I agree with you, Chuck, that the state's going to look at them much more critically. Um not even sure they may still have a moratorium on magnet schools, but I'm not positive on that. Yeah, because I think a lot of districts years ago, um I'm not going to name

086the district. Um I came from it, but uh they put in a district magnet school. about whether or not it achieved those results that the goal of a magnet school is. But there's obviously an 80% reimbursement rate associated with the magnet school and that that was the the attraction to uh designating schools magnet schools. Um and I think after a while the state started looking at those and analyzing the um the results of that and and did it perform as as it was intended and I think they might have been might have been finding that they may not have been and that it was really for the 80% reimbursement. So we'd have to talk that's something I think we'd want to talk to OGA about uh in the state and go where what's their position

087on that >> right the current 2024 statute promotes building new magnet schools or uh I forget the term the regional that doesn't have such a magnet school in our region doesn't Lynchfield's region doesn't but like learn does which is grant New London they have a marine biology >> yeah so we're doing we're doing learn's early childhood center right Now, we're actually out to bid for that one in Waterford. Um, and they're regional. They make, you know, they provide offerings to other school districts that may be short on, you know, early child. >> That's the interist interdist approach, right? And you're getting 80% reimbursement on a bill on a new bill. 80% is my maths right about 6x more than 12%. So, we're doing pretty good there. Uh, and it really comes down to is it

088unserviced in the in the dirt, right? So is Wilton or Richfield uh and even Norwok or Danbury outside did not have the curriculum uh trajectory and it turns out in the 2024 statute if you're doing it AI robotics that's their thing and we don't have that within 50 miles of Weston's four acres of our middle school. So, it's kind of an inter that's why I asked. It's an interesting uh approach to get your not your 92,000 square ft because guess what? You build a magnet school and if you have 547 students projected of your own district, you got to put in 135 more students from outside. So now you're at 670700. You get to build a build a bigger school and you get a bigger chunk of money back >> and that those additional students

089is where maybe some of the challenges might have been coming of are they really achieving getting the those additional students into the magnet schools my guess? >> Yeah, that that's where the challenge is. You know, we've we've seen districts where they they struggle to get that 25% out of district and then it hurts the indistrict students because they need to keep the ratios in order to continue to get the the reimbursement from the state. >> Yeah. And it is a it is a different approach because it is curriculum driven and you have to set the curriculum and then step forward from there and hope that you can back into the student enrollment and the population and the budget and the dollars. though, you know, because they're they're clearly connected. >> You got it. It's curriculum

090based. So, that's the hot curriculum. New York Times article said that many college majors are now centering around AI and robotics. So, we're ahead of the curve still with our sixth, seventh, and eighth graders. The key is the 125, 150 extra kids, and are they busible? So when you have towns like Wilton, Ridgefield, and Norwok building condos and every square foot, they have a kids, right? Because they're 15 minutes away. So the bet's a pretty good bet that you're going to find 125 interested kids. >> Yeah. And that also >> that's also a little farther reaching analysis, too. So if you're going to assume some numbers and assume numbers that you're bringing in from outside towns, I think you also have to look at the enrollment or the uh the grade configuration as well. And

091then you look at Weston students and see how you can shift Weston students around. So from going, you know, from a 678 to a 5678 is going to bump up the Weston enrollment projections for that school. If you're bringing in outside students as well, you may be able to build that bigger school, but then you also have to analyze what happened to the elementary schools as you pull fifth graders out of the western schools. So, you know, and then then you're into a game where you're starting to look at possible consolidation of the elementary schools and that may may not be what the town wants at this point. So, >> I was looking for curriculum in 80%. I was pretty happy with those. I I'll make that a starting point and it looks like it's

092plausible because of the statutes. So that on a topic of discussion, >> yes on my list. All right. We're not going to solve that tonight, but it's it's creative and it's interesting. Um All right. Who uh Michael, do you mind uh sort of uh giving us where you're coming from? >> Uh sure. So, uh, look, I've been through the process now couple times over the last couple years. Um, very mindful that we need to get something done. I want to get something done, you know, as quickly as possible. But, um, I also know that the decision here has a potential financial impact to the town that could span, you know, 20 plus years. And so I think and Debb you and I have sort of talked about this um offline as well in that look

093I I think it's no surprise that in the past in in in past meetings I think my biggest issue here has been sort of moving forward deliberately with the timeline that we can put together. Deb, and and I know you're you're on top of this, so I I appreciate you um holding this meeting, but timeline, key information that we need, milestones, meetings that will be needed. Um my a lot of my questions, Deb, frankly, uh you guys have covered some of the other ones that I've had. A lot of my questions, frankly, are around financing and affordability, right? What's the amount that we could afford? What's the time frame of that bonding? what's the timing of the deployment? Um what does that mean in terms of you know cushion or additional funding for the maintenance

094and upkeep for the other schools over that time period because I don't want of course them to go um you know um to be served sort of at a at a suboptimal funding rate. um impacts to the a lot some of this I'm getting into into board of finance too but impacts to the bond rating tax implications um I think all of that is is vitally important I think that last year if I remember correctly and Scott I think that when you guys were here last year we were talking about sort of phase two for this renovate as new and I think we are having to I don't think we took a we actually took a vote on that whether or not to move forward, but we were discussing at the time whether or not

095it even made sense to move forward with that based on the cost um of the projects. And so I think we need to circle back and really decide again, you know, this board whether or not um you know, we should be moving forward with with uh with stage two on that. Um, also Deb, just again riffing here a little bit. Um, you know, just thinking about, you know, where the board of finance again is at. And then I I'd also, and this is so sort of a little off topic, maybe we could discuss this another time, but there were clearly, I think, concerns from the first select woman um about the project. And I think the last time this board passed this, Deb, we we um we we voted to move forward with the plans.

096I I I was a I was a no for that just because of lack. I just felt like we were going way too fast. Um, even though I do want to get this done and I think that there are considerations maybe that the first select woman has or you know other members of the board of of of selectman may have that play into this and I think we need we need input from board of finance and board selectmen sort of as we move forward too. So that's just you know my you guys have covered a lot my area of focus is just on the finance. I want to make sure that, you know, everyone is eyes wide open on what this is going to cost and what it means for the district over the over

097the funding period and what it means for the town in terms of both um you know the students and what we're going to build we're able to build and and doing it in a prudent way for the taxpayers. So I think that's that's where Matt is at. >> Okay. Well, that's a lot and some um you know, good thoughts about the involvement on of the board of selectmen andor the board of um finance. Um you know, some of that is you know, going to be their job. Uh but we absolutely, you know, need to partner and and look at the situation and try to balance all the all the different needs. Um Nicole Um, I I agree with I don't know if I have anything new to say. I agree with what both Lisa and

098Mike said. I It seems that our school buildings are large, so I would be interested in seeing all of the school facilities and the spaces that exist in all of the facilities to see if they could be more efficiently utilized. Um, and I appreciate this presentation is really helpful. As somebody who's new to the board, it was really great and helpful context and it's extremely clear, but I also would like to explore the other options and just have a better understanding of what the options are other than just focusing on the middle school because in all of the preliminary reports there were there are issues in the other buildings. So, I just it might not be affordable, but maybe think creatively about where students can be placed in which buildings and and and just think

099a little bit more holistically beyond just looking at the next steps for the middle school. I would say something that is really helpful and it's really I like it's very clear what what our next steps are, what your next steps are. I think for us to decide what are we targeting as our timeline in terms of are we all agreeing to shoot for a November referendum. I think it would be helpful to work backwards from there with what is the timing by you know to do all of the things that we need to do to be ready for that to Deb. I think either way, to Nicole's point, I think either way, we're we're shooting for a November referendum, right? I think the question is whether or not we whether or not the time the

100time is going to allow us to um accelerate the process here and and get in for a grant for June 2026 or put in for the grant in June 2027. Um I think if I understand that correctly, right, I think we're we are targeting a November referendum either way. Is that correct? >> Um it sounded to me like yes. I mean, and that's that's aggressive. Um it's been called I mean I'm call I've been liking to call it ambitious, but somebody just said, "Oh, it's aggressive." So yeah. So, I'm kind of saying, you know, what I would like to do, but it, you know, I want to hear the rest of the board, too, is shoot for a referendum in November on the best proposal that we can put forward with our thinking of what's

101good for kids and what's financially the best we can do. Um, and then the grant would come, you know, maybe before it if it, you know, if all things fell into place. um and you know or afterwards which I was glad to find out tonight is a possibility. >> Um Deb, I just want to add on to what uh Michael was saying. Sure. >> Um at the end of of last year, we were talking about build is new or renovate as new or build new. And you know what came out of that was that there were some so many unknowns in renovate as new that it might be more costly. And I think that we should get the data on the table and that would be a quick vote and that would uh move us

102further ahead very quickly. >> Okay. Um, and I guess my question would be, uh, do we need the phase 2 information no matter what we do or only if we pursue the renovate as new path? Can someone from um, Collier or Slam answer that? >> Yeah, I'll I'll take a dab stab out of Deb and you know Keer on fine. Um and this is a value question of you know the cost of the work obviously um I think you know again the initial phase one is is really going to feel can we even do it and slam who's done many renovation projects you can typically go through a building go yeah we can renovate it or not have a good idea we've already kind of done that first step but then going in deeper if

103it reveals that you can't you know that we you know we we really can't achieve a renovation status without doing it legislatively um because you can do it legislatively if you want to. Many districts have um is it worth doing and does it kind of maybe we we call the path not traveled? We checked that box. We looked and we said listen we've exhausted it based upon our study. it just the information doesn't support it. And can you stand on thick thick ice um in saying that to your constituents and your stakeholders and your taxpayers that we did really look at it in earnest and gave it um a really deep look at it and it really doesn't support it versus okay, we just dismissed it. We decided just go new because going new I

104can see where some folks you just we just want the new building because it is new, right? that there's I think that's kind of obvious why some folks might select that but I think doing the study um it gives or if you can't do it then you know you can do it as well but if you don't do it you said you've really done the deep dive into that that's maybe the avenue maybe a perspective I might consider >> yeah I agree with you Chuck I think you need to do the due diligence to know the result of the study because if you if you don't you're going to have uh constituents saying well you didn't look at all the options and you know it's just it's a study that I think needs to be

105done so you can rule it out or or it may turn out that it uh is the right approach. It needs to be looked at in detail and it needs to be based on your edspec as Scott has been saying. So if you are thinking about changing grade configurations that needs to be considered first so that when we do the conceptual design work as part of the renovate to new study. We know what what classrooms and what spaces need to go into this into the building. So we we know the size and so forth. Um and we could work together on an approach. You know Scott mentioned there are several windowless classrooms in this building. So we may look at an approach to eliminate that because that's part of the edspec is to get natural

106light into the classroom spaces. So those are the types of things that we would look at in a conceptual design study. Uh but it needs to be based in your edspec. >> Hey hey hey guys, how long does that phase two study how long would that take? because I know last year we were working on a timeline too and then it wound up taking I'm forgetting but it was we approved it I think around this time when we got it >> January February somewhere around the around that timeline what is how how long would a phase 2 in-depth study take so you know let's say we voted on it you know today not that we would but we voted on it today and we said okay move forward we have all the information how long

107is that study take? >> Oh, I think we would probably say about 8 weeks, maybe 8 to 10 weeks. >> Okay. >> And the and and do you guys have an idea or maybe Phil or someone a cost the cost of that study? >> Yeah, I think that was that was part of the original proposal that SLAM made. um you know we answered the request for services and broke it into two different phases. So phase one is complete. So I think contractually you know we we have an agreement >> um >> Yep. to proceed into phase two. >> I think we're looking at close in about 40 40 or so $1,000. Michael >> yeah I thought yeah 50 50 rang a bell but okay. So 40 Okay. Okay. Thanks. >> Um Chuck Chuck one last

108question for you. Um, let's say the numbers came in because they're close. Say the numbers came in and the renovate as new wound up being somewhat more expensive, right, than the build is new. So your your scenario that you mentioned earlier in the discussion um whereby you can then theoretically apply for the higher reimbursement rate. In this case that 22 or so percent. Um you mentioned that one case where they successfully did that, right? Y >> um how often h how what's the sample size there in terms of how many of those situations have you come across and what's the success rate in actually getting that higher rate and and and I don't need specific numbers but just off the top of your head like >> no I know they're very very small Michael to

109be honest that's the only one we've done. Oh, okay. >> I actually draft I actually drafted the letter and and frankly that one was much more gray and vague in making the argument because there was multiple buildings. We were consolidating buildings into uh gray configurations from like five to four. We had two K to3s and a four five and we were going to a preK to 5 and a K to five. So I made the argument that well we renovated these two existing buildings and kept the same configuration. This is how much it would cost. But in this and I and I pulled a couple other statutes in where state of Connecticut encourages looking at your district holistically and consolidating where possible. I use that statutory language go we're following your recommendation. We're reducing maintenance

110costs um in that we didn't have an estimate on it, but we were if we have one less building, it's one less to maintain for both the state and this is in the town of Madison. Um and um we kind of pulled a bunch of different uh items into that argument of why we felt building a new prek to five and converting one which they didn't request reimbursement for in the other project to convert like K classrooms. Um and I think legislators had honestly had some uh influence with the department administration services at the same time. we just help to provide the numbers but obviously the politics do come into play and my guess in your case if it was close um you know you guys you know the state's a benefactor you know look

111at your re your reimbursement rate you know you're the state's a benefactor from the town of Weston and and I would make that argument too that your ask is small you probably don't go to the state a lot for reimbursement well the additional 10% percentage points, you know, I would argue that's a small small amount for you to ask from the state of Connecticut in return, you know. So, I think it's just more than just the numbers. I think there's uh some uh additional help outside of the the project team that could probably help with that. But I I' I've seen very few cases across the board. I know Slammer, you know, Kemp, Jim, if you guys have seen it. We haven't really seen it done many times to be honest. It's been hard to

112prove that over the years. No, I I haven't seen it very frequently either. So, yeah, but I I I think Ken Chuck makes a good point that the the ask from the town of Weston isn't all that much. And if you could make an argument to bump that reimbursement up by 10% through a waiver, I think that would help tremendously potentially the passing of a referendum, a local referendum. I think it's a great story to tell. um it doesn't always work numbers number-wise, but um I think you're at the point where you know that this phase 2 exercise is going to start to give you some of the numbers and focus in on on what the right thing to do would be. >> Okay. So, clearly that's, you know, a topic to say the least,

113um is reimbursement rates and and how to maximize those. Um David, I realize that I didn't call on you. I I know that you had started with the, you know, what if there were more grade levels uh within um the middle school. So, give me your other thoughts. Um I'm looking at the time. We're we're getting near the end. So, what topics um that you haven't heard that you would like to dig into? >> Actually, I've heard a lot. So, I mean, okay, one of the things I always say is five years on the board, I've seen a lot. I think that the one thing we definitely have to do is make a decision. And um I love the idea that we have the referendum in the fall and if we can get to a

114June 2026 grant, great. If we can't, it's June 2027. Getting it right should be our guiding point. So I'm I guess I'm not really asking a question, but proc I'm kind of answering the process question. I think the fall referendum is a must. And the only um question I think I have Michael answered which is what is the next logical step and can we be doing these things parallel and it seems like the next logical step is phase two of the middle school and we should that should be one of the things that we're looking at. You know let's keep the progress going and if we make June 2026 great. If we don't it doesn't sound like what Scott's saying. We don't lose a lot of time. we just keep moving forward so we're ready

115in June 2027 if not June 2026. >> So process-wise I have no question that's process-wise. I don't have any other questions though. >> All right. Thank you. Um All right. I'm looking at the time um and uh we didn't get into one thing that I wanted to. So but that's all right. We can pick it up in in other avenues. Uh but I think everybody's brought up um great points and great suggestions and great questions. Um you know what I'm hearing is let's look uh prek to 12. Let's look at grade configurations. Um let's look at the number of buildings. Let's look at and this this would be my little point is in some of the earlier studies there were some town needs that are very you know close to our school campus. Is there

116anything um worth trying to like uh collaborate on or um partner with um if the town needs xum space for whatever it is and and we can make sense educationally in what we want to do. would there be a way of sort of um solving or um providing some of what the town also might be looking at? But we need to hear from the town and that could be you know sort of very quickly done. I think Michael that was your point. Um and I think somebody said uh you know put the options on the table. um we don't seem to want to feel um locked in to any one um model at this point, but we do need and I also hear but we need to get moving on decisions fairly quickly. Uh so

117that's a lot. You know, if we're going to talk three schools versus four schools, if we're going to talk different grade configurations, we need to hear on the grade configurations piece, we need to hear from um the uh the staff and the administration. Um you know, educationally, what makes sense? What's been the western tradition? What do other schools in our DUR do? Uh what would be the resulting size of uh school buildings, etc. um we'll be be able to keep our class sizes, all the educational pieces. So, we have to obviously also review the educational specifications if in fact we're going to um uh alter or revise the grade configuration model. And then there are some very creative ideas out there. You know, what if we did um something as um I won't say wild,

118but something as interesting as a magnet school. um whether that's you know um how practical is that and does it work you know my question is does that work in basically a one-horse town you know there's we have one middle school magnet schools to me mean you have a choice between different schools so how does that magnet model even work in a in a district like Weston not to say it couldn't but it's an interesting concept if we did some sort of specialized school would that appeal to our community educationally I think is a better driver than just trying to maximize the reimbursement rate. I think we want to do what's right educationally first. Uh so okay um the last part and maybe we can get at this very quickly because we do have a

119communication subcommittee but I wanted to look at you know we need to involve parents in terms of providing um you know a basis of information like tonight's meeting has been and we also want feedback as we go down the road in terms of as they're listening to our thinking about grade configurations or size of school or where do you put parking or all of those sort of issues. Um, and we also want to reach the wider community. Um, there are lots of people in town that have, you know, no kids at the school. Um, so, you know, we want to sort of reach out and figure out the best way to communicate and engage them. So, I know the communication committee probably has lot, you know, can come up with its own ideas, but if

120anyone wanted to add some right now, uh that would be the last part of the meeting. So, it's not a have to. I I think uh David and his committee can certainly brainstorm lots, but if there were ideas that people wanted to suggest tonight, now's the time. Okay, David, it's all yours when you get to your subcommittee. Nicole, did you have something? >> Yeah, I I meant to say this previously, and I it's separate, but it's related. I apologize if it's totally off topic, but I learned a few months ago that by 2030, Connecticut buses have to be electric. And so, that's something we need to be planning for and thinking about. So I was just wondering is that something that should be considered as part of as part of a more holistic macro view

121of what's the physical plan of the campus >> if this new school is going to be a real multi-year process. It kind of seems like both of those projects might um >> overlap. >> Yeah. So, I just don't know if that's something to also >> have on. >> I think Yeah, I think that's a good one. Um, and that's kind of also with the town needs as well, you know, like what what um is going to happen to that space. I don't know the details of the uh the school bus um regulations, but that's something else to look at. It may not be our first priority, but you're right to bring it up that if we look um at this campus uh K12 um obviously focusing on on the middle school, you know, will be

122a driver, but there are other other issues that are tangential to that and important from the town's perspective, from a grade level perspective, from building utilization perspective, from future enrollments. um this Mike Zuba report on enrollment. It was very timely that we got that this fall because um you have your numbers for the next eight years and beyond. So those are helpful. Okay. Anything else for the good of the group? >> Yes, I have something to say. Again, thank you for running a very tight ship. >> Lots of good input, good questions. Actually, the EOC did address many of these, so we need to share that. uh and disseminate that. Uh but here's some for some foreoding. The fundamental operating assumption this evening was we have plenty of time. Let's deliberate. We've been lucky for

123seven years that we haven't had a catastrophic problem with any of the four buildings. Our luck may run out sooner than we want it to run out. So my presence is that we're going to find out we're going to have a bigger problem than we planned for by being so deliberate. So that may sound a little alarming, but I rather be alarming after seven years of deliberation than relaxed and deliberate about every little piece that needs to be satisfied. So just take that away, right? I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but I've been at this three years and I've seen how bad things can get really fast. I think Slam did a really good job and it hinted at things can get bad really fast. So, we better maybe move on

124our deliberation a little quicker than a little slower and get whatever we're going to do done not in 2027 or 2028, but sooner than later. I'll leave I'll leave with that statement. >> Okay. Um, I hope that you've also heard that we are aiming for a referendum in November. Um, I don't think there's any realistic way of doing it sooner than that. Um, we >> No, but I did hear, well, we can sort of do that then maybe do a reimb or do another thing in 2027. You don't have the luxury of finding anymore. You got to start making some hard decision, >> right? I I think a referendum in November moves us forward. uh period. Um you know, with or without the grant. I think that's kind of um you know, I thought the

125the grant was the thing that you know, the tail wagging the dog, and it's really not. Uh the most important thing what I heard tonight was to get to a referendum and the grant application um is not going to make that much difference in terms of timing of actual project and the getting this the getting the uh the work started. I I didn't hear that that made a huge amount of difference. So, Peter, I don't think that we're saying we're trying to delay or overd deliver. Um, on the other hand, we don't want to be careless and and neglect some of the the issues that we ought to be looking at. Uh, so anyway, um, I'm certainly talked out. Is does anybody have anything else for the good of the group? Jody, >> can I

126say something? Just as a reminder to people and for some of our new board members on the district website, if you go under departments and under facilities, you are going to see a tab there that says Weston Middle School and that is where you are going to find historical information on this entire project. And I am also going to be adding additional presentations like the ones that we had linked to tonight's meeting. They will be posted there. Um, and under videos we're gonna find I will link this video there as well. So, as we go through this whole process, I will continue to update this for you. So, I just wanted to throw that out there because I know we have some new board members here. >> No, thank you. That's helpful. And I know

127David has thought and uh Dan have thought about even highlighting a website, you know, a web tab even easier to get to. So, that would be wonderful. So, I do want to thank all the staff again. And I know it's extra time for you that you did not expect. And thank you so much to both Kers and Slam uh for being here tonight. Uh we need to partner with you um you know continually through this process. We have board of ed meetings monthly just on facilities. We have a lot of subcommittee work. Um we have uh Phil, you know, our our leader in the field and Mike Delmastro um who's our facilities expert with all the institutional knowledge. So we're going to need to just be working together a lot in the next upcoming months

128to get to Peter's point so we don't waste time. And Erica, you know, thanks for leading the ship. And with that, I think I'm going without objection, I think I'm going to ask for a motion to adjourn. So moved. >> Thank you, David. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Thank you, Lisa. All in favor? >> All right. And