001Uh we have a quorum. So the first item on the agenda is the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, liberty and justice for all. Okay. Uh Peter, I'd like to turn it over to you at this point. um as the chair of the EOC. Uh certainly well thank you uh to slam and colleers and our fellow board members for taking another evening. Uh this meeting derived from a earlier EOCC meeting that covered the presentation we're about to hear and we wanted to extend the information to the entire board of those that can participate tonight but also uh town of Western residents that couldn't be on that Friday call that perhaps can make this call. So that's
002agenda item number three is their presentation and we'll them we'll let them work through it similar to how they worked through it. um with us at the EOC and then we'll have some Q&A and I just want to preamble that going. Uh this was an element of a phased uh assessment of the middle school from a structural engineering perspective. They completed phase one. So Phil Cross had listed their help. Uh we did not determine whether or not to move forward with a second phase or or subsequent phases. And uh I just wanted to uh make it clear that uh you know our aim here is twofold. One is to determine uh what's best for educational delivery but also to determine what's best for the town of Weston financially. And uh these two are not necessarily
003incompatible. And I think as we work through this we may find that we can have both the best educational delivery and sort of the least risk least uncertain option. And that's for us and then of course our fellow uh other boards in town and eventually a referendum to determine. So with that preamble, I'll let the gentlemen and I'm not quite sure who else is on the call uh from Kers and SLAM u proceed with their presentation. Uh thank you. Great. Thank thank you. Um I'm Jim Hogland with SLAM. Um I've I've been the project manager for this and I've been in the building. So, I'll I'll be taking the lion share of this presentation, but um Kemp Mohart is also on and uh he's the principal in charge for for SLAM. Also on the uh
004on the call with us is Steve Murray from SLAM and he is a structural engineer that was in the building with us. Um Luchin Dragulski from Beis um and Kim Simmons from Beis as well. They're both engineers and specialing specializes in um analyzing the MEP systems, electrical um and all that. So, we we all spent quite a bit of time together in the building. Um I don't know, Kemp, if you wanted to add anything, but I think we can probably launch right into the presentation and get through it unless you want to add something. Nope, I think we're just ready to go. Thanks, Jim. Great. Okay. Well, again, thank thank you for having us. Um if if you are not aware, SLAM is a full-ervice architecture firm. So we have architects and uh interior designers
005on staff. We also have structure um which is represented by Steve Murray this evening. Um we also have a landscape architect studio as well as construction services. So we have a lot of resources at hand, especially when we do studies like this. um in the office, it's great to have those kind of resources a couple desks away um when we're asking questions about certain systems and construction logistics and things like that. Um so just kind of stepping back in time a little bit, we uh we started on phase one of this effort back in beginning of April. Uh we spent quite a bit of time in the building on April 3rd. Um so we we um uh we presented a high high level summary to the subcommittee uh a week and a half or or
006so ago and we just went over our scope. We kind of explained um actually Kemp, do you want to um start the presentation? Sure. Okay. Just give me one second. Yep. Thanks. Um so while while that's starting up um just we kind of want to go through and and talk a little bit about just high level what phase one and what phase two of this effort really means. Um phase one is a preliminary assessment and it was really intended to be one day on the ground in the building making observations with all of our engineers and architecture and staff and then coming back out and analyzing that and then producing a letter. So um the the effort there really was uh the you know design team in the building. Um we looked at the bu
007overall building layout kind of analyze that from an architectural standpoint. We we went into just about every every uh space in in the building. Um and then our structural engineer started looking at structural systems overall. You know, he was in the gymnasium. Um all all of the smaller wings. Um and then uh Beis Associates Solution and Kim spent quite a bit of time analyzing HVA systems, uh the plumbing components, electrical, fire suppression, um to kind of cover their responsibility. So coming out of that walkth through um we did go over to facilities and we're able to download a whole bunch. We went through piles and piles of drawings. We brought drawings back to our office and we're able to scan them. Um some of them were really helpful, but we did realize that there were
008some holes in in the overall documentation of that building. Um just because it's an old building, drawings are old um and have just gotten lost over the years. Um so we we have you know what what we did. Um and we have uh the guidance for this phase one effort really was um the analysis of the the DAS form the the 5320 and that uh we're going to go into a little bit more detail later in the presentation. Um we issued our final recommendation memo on April 16th and that was the 15page uh memo that was attached to your packet for this evening. Um and then subsequent to that we had a meeting and talked through it and uh Phil had asked for just an executive summary which kind of summarizes everything um in in
009a real simple way as to what what our findings were. And then over on the right hand side of this slide is really phase two and that's really what you're contemplating tonight. Um so pending authorization to move forward that's just a list of what would be um undertaken in the phase two of uh the of the effort. Um, and again, we'll circle back around to this at the at the end of the presentation. Um, next slide, Kemp. So, as we spent time in the building, um, we we wandered around outside the building looking at some accessibility issues, trying to understand how the building sits on the site, some of the site constraints that you're up against. Uh, much like the picture on the right, you're you're all well aware of those stairs that go to
010the main entry. Um, and we we uh we tried to get into just about every single space that we could. Uh, you know, ranging from small janitor closets all the way up to classrooms and, you know, the pool area and gym and all all the big community spaces as well. Next slide. Um, some of some of the spaces that we um kind of tag teamed as we walked through the building. I I know I was a little concerned about just getting headroom. And when we begin to analyze a building for full renovation status, we have to begin to understand how systems fit into this existing building. Um buildings are developed and designed much differently today than they were back in the 1960s when this was built. Um, so as we wandered through the building, uh,
011the the team was really cognizant of the materials that were on on walls and and ceilings and floors and we made notes of that. Uh, also windows, uh, all those, you know, e exterior envelope systems we looked at. Uh, we did spend some time up on the roof looking at that system. um kind of observing what types of equipment are up there and how a renovation could possibly be affected if we eliminated or added equipment to the roof there. Um I think one of the real telling um conversations that we had in the building that evening was how all of the systems currently fit in. Um so, you know, we as we got in there um Kim and Lucian and I and and Steve stuck our head above wind, you know, above ceilings. We popped
012a lot of ceiling tiles and we have a whole photo documentation of what you see on the left. Um, so as we got up into those ceiling spaces, we realized that, you know, we're dealing with a tectum deck on the roof. Um, we have some steel beams, you know, that are fairly average size, but um, in in our opinion, the the roof is fairly low and we have some fairly low um, bottom of steel that would, you know, impact some system selections in the long run. And you can see a lot of conduit running here, some data cables, uh some electrical conduit. Um so as the team wandered through the building and looking at situations like this, um I think it was a good comprehensive look and we were able to kind of talk back
013and forth and really understand whether the school was going to be able to, you know, be eligible for all the criteria that we're looking at um through the the state uh checklist that we're looking at over on the right. Um, you know, we as many panels that we could pull on on equipment. We were looking, you know, in closets. You know, this unit ventilator was was not functioning correctly the day we came wandering through and the maintenance staff was actually wandering with us and the teacher complained. So, you know, he pulled the panel and it gave us an opportunity to kind of see what condition some of that equipment really was in. Um, so in the grand scheme of things, this really was a comprehensive look. Um, it albeit quick through the building. Um, but
014I think that that, you know, h that full day that we spent there was was really time well spent. Um, and I know I have Lucian and Kim on the call today to answer any questions at the end. Um, but they spent a fair amount of time looking at all of, you know, the electrical services coming in, the boiler room, um, how all of that is fed and serviced. Um so in their detailed report um they obviously made some recommendations that we can uh certainly answer questions on if anybody on the committee at the end of the presentation has um questions on but I I think most of you are well aware of the age of the building and the age of the systems in the building. Um so the team didn't really do in
015in invasive investigations. So popping ceiling tiles and looking behind panels was really the extent of it. Um and I think phase two was really intended to take a deeper dive into that. Um do much more um exploratory investigation. Um so the next step here really is looking at what what the um report that we issued on the 16th really says. Um, so I'm going to I'm going to go through I know with the subcommittee we we went into, you know, a fair amount of detail over the 15 pages. Um, but I think to summarize it really, um, in our opinion after looking at the building, you the the renovation could meet the criteria for renovation status. However, um, right now it's it's uncertain about the cost of the renovation. I think that's where we're really
016going to circle back around and have a you know robust conversation at the at the end of this presentation. Um I'm just going to go through the the 15page document. I'm going to get through it real quick. Um but the state lays out some very specific criteria that we have to look at if you're going to file paperwork for the grant and um and you know chase renovation status as a project. So, we I think we need to go into this with our eyes wide open and understand what that criteria is because there's people that are going to be having to sign off and and uh certify certain documents um starting with the superintendent of schools. So, as as we get into the document on the left um which you do have you should have
017in your meeting packet hopefully you were able to review to a certain degree. Um but the superintendent is going to need to fully understand all those requirements um and be required to sign off eventually when we do um file with the state. Uh the second criteria is really looking at the um state state forms. Um the cost analysis I think is going to be an absolutely critical one. Um so we're going to have to go through and that's uh form SCG uh 3501. Um and that is a cost analysis that um compares new construction cost against a renovation cost. Um and right now this team isn't comfortable to assign um actual costs. I think we have an order of magnitude and and I think we can talk some percentages of of delta and difference between
018the two. But I think the second uh phase of this is really intended to capture those more specific costs um as we move forward. uh and that that is a requirement of the submission to the state. Um they also require that you uh complete a feasibility study. I know that the town has done a lot of work to date. Um have a lot of studies that you can compile and piece together. Um and I think many of those can be reused and submitted to the state. Um some of them are a little bit dated. Um but that that will be a box that we'll have to check if if you decide to move forward with a full renovation. Um and then a professional cost estimate needs to be done and that's one of the reasons
019that we have um a comprehensive team in place. Uh our construction services um branch through SLAM is specializes in in cost estimates like this. We work closely with them moving forward. Um, and then there's some signed and sealed statements that the professionals need to make as well, the engineers, um, and the architects, um, recognizing the fact that we're going to be able to design this to current building codes. Um, I think that's a big question to ask. Um, as you get into an older building and you kind of look at it, you realize you can renovate it, but can you renovate it to the modern building codes? Um, and oftentimes that can be a stumbling block. So, in the letter, we just outlined all of the current codes. Um, and we also noted that there
020is a new new code adoption that's anticipated for March of 2026. Um, they could change things a little bit. So, right now we can only work with what we know. Um, but we did want to note that for the board moving forward, something to consider. Um, and then Steve Murray from SLAM did a really nice job with a a write up talking about the structural integrity of the existing building. Um, he found that there was minimal existing drawings. Um, so he spent a fair amount of time actually looking at structure. Um, so I think with a more indepth exercise in phase two, I think he's going to want to do a little bit more design work. Um, but in in his statement, he was comfortable that um the structural components were all intact and um
021could be adjusted to meet modern building code. And again, we're really not sure what the cost of that may be. Um, you know, we can go through run through some examples if anybody has uh questions or concerns about that portion. That's one of the reasons Steve is on the phone. Um, and then Lucian and and uh and Kim can answer some of the existing building systems. We talked about data and communications, security, um, MEP systems, plumbing, um, fire suppression and all that. So, their their report is very comprehensive, talks about all of those, um, engineered systems. Um, and again, they're they're confident that with a full renovation, we could meet the state criteria of certifying those systems for the next 20 years, but in their opinion, it it would entail completely replacing all the systems.
022So, um, and that's detailed in in their report. Um, and then ultimately, we have to submit all that documentation to DAS and, um, get it get it approved. So, that that's really what these two documents are. And the exe Um and again, you know, we just we just stated that we thought in our professional opinion that um you know, we could satisfy the criteria under the Connecticut General Statutes. Um and then uh Steve made a statement that he observed that the structural integrity of the original building has not been compromised. So, we're comfortable that we could move forward and do renovations to meet that uh 50-year life for for the structure. Um, and we did state that right now the the cost of the renovation is really unknown. Um, and we're not sure if that
023would exceed the threshold cost of being more expensive or less expensive than than a new project. Um, and then we we did um exclude some some things that we obviously didn't look at in phase one. Um, and that that includes some hazardous material considerations. We're we're confident that there there is hazardous materials, but we're just not able to confirm the extent of them right now and certainly can't assign a cost at at this point. Um, and any site environment uh con considerations. Um, so we haven't assessed any any of the project costs relative to to any of that at this point. Okay, next slide, Kemp. Um, so really what is renovation status? And I think this is going to drive a lot of our conversations. Um, the state clearly defines this in in the Connecticut
024General Statutes. Um, and a lot of the documents tie back to this and point to this. Um, so we've highlighted a couple of of items here that we feel are really important. Um, so if you're going to renovate a school and and consider renovate to new, um, you need to consider it totally refurbished. Um, and then the three points here, A, B, and C. Um, really A talks about being equal to a new building and still cost less than what a new building would. Um, B is really just talks about the building not being renovated uh, significantly over the last 20 years. and C is not less than 75% of the facility to be renovated um at least for a 30-year um kind of certification for that. So, um you know, we we've kind of
025documented this. I think it's going to be an important point to come back to at some point. Um next slide, Kemp. And then um moving forward um as we discussed potentially doing phase two of this effort um the the renovation uh designation checklist will drive all of the all the process and we need to check all these boxes um numbers one through through 9 on the left. Um this is form SCG3520 and we've summarized it on the left and based on our scope that you know we have a contract for um we'll we'll write narratives for all of the items listed there from architecture all the way down to fire protection. Um we will offer an opinion of probable cause uh costs for the project. Um and we will do some drawings for you. will
026do a conceptual site plan um that the costing will be based on. Um and then you have already done an EDS spec. One of the tasks for phase two would be to take that EDS spec and fit it into the existing building. Um you know it's not necessarily a an easy one for one. um we could find some spaces that would fit the square footage uh but may not be ideally sized or proportioned for a music room or whatever the the EDS spec calls for for a specific space. Um but we will do a conceptual floor plan which again the the probable costs uh will be based off of. uh we'll deliver a final report to you and then we will begin to fill in all of those items required on on the the 3520
027that you see on the left. Next slide, Kemp. And then uh as we were discussing this over the last week and a half or so with collers and this is kind of a transition over to to them because they've been a key part of this team uh really great resource bouncing ideas around. um we we started building a list um of the considerations that you would have to give for new construction verse renovation because that's really what the state is asking you to do to go through this exercise is come up with the best choice for the town of Weston and how do you go about doing that? So the way this is set up is you know the first bullet under new construction directly relates to the first bullet under renovation. So, you know,
028we we recognize the fact if you're building a brand new building, you can, you know, meet the EDS spec. You can proportion rooms exactly the way you want it. You can create the adjacencies that are absolutely ideal. Um, so a new building, you know, easily supports those 21st century learning um philosophies. uh the renovation over on the right. You know, we I started talking a little bit about, you know, adapting spaces in an existing building may be less than ideal. Um so, I'm not going to read through all these uh considerations, but I I think the board uh I I think these considerations may drive some of the conversation and questions that that the board has. Um you know, we we've thought about phase construction. Um, obviously new construction you you can drive if if
029as long as you can isolate it on the site, you can go quick. Um, the phase construction oftentimes stretches out schedules and adds dollars to the project that you never really see back into the building when it's all done. Um, so these these are all things to consider. Um, I'll let you read the list. I certainly don't need to read the list to you. Um but um Kier's being a a really key uh part of this team and driving some of these conversations. Um just wanted to mention that you know we've we've built this list together and I think we're coming at it from a couple of different perspectives. Not only you know the educational philosophy and benefits of of either of these solutions um but also the construction background. So kind of looking at
030both sides of uh of the perspective here. Um, so the last piece of the puzzle really is schedule and budget and Collier has really been driving all of this. So I'm going to pass it over to Scott now and he he can talk a little bit about big picture schedule and budget and kind of where we landed at the end of the phase one process. Thank you Jim. Uh, good evening everyone. Scott Pelman from PIA project leaders. Just a little bit about again what we do. We are owners project managers. We specialize um in understanding the state process. Uh we specialize in pre-planning and project management. Uh taking over all the tasks that towns and municipalities just don't have the staff to do. U you know we run budgets, schedules um you know and what
031I'm going to talk about in a few minutes is based on a lot of historical data that we have for managing school uh construction projects. uh you know like Jim and Kemp, I'm an architect. Uh I spent the first 30 years of my career designing schools like Jim and Kemp do now. And in the last nine I've spent managing these types of projects. So uh I just want to talk a little bit about the process um of of you know working with the state and what the process would be um you know once a a project is selected and something wants to move forward. Um so the the one key component is the grant application and the grant application uh needs to be filed for any specific year prior to June 30th of that year.
032Um by doing so you would then get placed on the priority list for the fall of that year. So let's just say for example um a grant application was filed next year um for 2026 prior to June 30th um then uh if that was grant was accepted by the state you would get put on the priority list in the fall which uh is then submitted to the legislative branch uh on December 15th and then that would go into the legislative process and be approved the following late June early July. of 2027. Um there's some key aspects of the um the grant application. Um certainly you need to define the project and the cost. Uh but you will either have to have um funding approval from the town. Uh whatever your process is, somes are are
033town meetings, somes are referendum. Um I believe you may be a referendum town. You can do that either prior to a grant application submission prior to June 30th or uh the town can um pass a motion that they intend to have a referendum in the fall. Um typically we see this done then around um around election day. The key is um in order to get on to the priority list, you have to have the certified positive results from that referendum filed with the state prior to December 15th when that priority list then moves on to the legislative branch. So those are kind of the key components for a grant application. Um once the project was approved um we would anticipate a project of this size uh brand new or renovation again to be determined. Um
034going through all the design the approval processes with the state all the critical aspects of budgeting reviewing the documents uh would take somewhere between 14 and 16 months. um then bidding an award of a project of this size. By the time you put the bids out, you receive the bids, you evaluate the bids, and then make a recommendation uh to the town and to the building committee for award. Typically, that's 3 to four months. Um and that process is is parallel for whichever project you choose, whether it's new construction or a renovation. We feel that again those timelines are appropriate for each. Uh the big uh switch now is if you chose to do new construction. Um new construction is is much simpler. Uh just from the standpoint that um we anticipate if you do
035a renovation, you don't have anywhere to put those students uh the 511 students that we anticipate being in town uh at that at that period. So you have to do a a a job in phases. you have to move the students around the building, create some temporary spaces, temporary classrooms, and just renovate little portions of the pie, little portions of the school. Um, and that takes a longer period of time. So, we feel that new construction um is is reasonable. Could take between 20 and 24 months. If you're doing a renovation in an occupied building, that can extend out that construction period and could be between 36 to 40 months. Um, and that would be a a complete renovation as James uh laid out. Um, you would be replacing all of the mechanical, electrical, plumbing
036systems, lighting, finishes, and then most likely reorganizing the building uh to meet 21st education goals and to meet the edspec that was uh developed by Tech Time. Um, so I'll just stop right there for just a minute and just see if there's any questions on process. And if not, um, I think we'll proceed on to our last slide. Okay. Actually, I do have a quick question. Oh, sure. Getting back to this. So, June 30th application, um, and you had mentioned, and maybe I missed it in the, uh, in the crosshairs here, that we needed to have the town vote on it. However, I think the suggestion was that we were looking at having the town vote on it in the November time frame. Correct. No, I was I was wasn't making a case for either
037option. Just laying out that you can you either have to have funding approval by the town prior to June 30th submission or at a minimum commit to a referendum. Have a motion that gets filed with the grant confirming that the town would intend to vote on in some fashion, whatever your normal approval process is. um in a referendum prior to the in having that ready prior to the December 15th deadline for getting that information on to the priority list. So really do it either way or it could be a September, October, November. Typically, we don't go much past election day because uh it takes some time to get the certified election results and get that certified by the town clerk's office. Okay. All right. I just needed to to know that. And with this being
038June 18th, I know this is your recommendation. You've been working with the EOC. Are we Is this something that is even a thought for June 30th for us or is this just aformational? No, no, no. This this isformational. It's absolutely um there there's no time nor have you even selected a project um and time to come to the community, get community input. Um, no. It it best case would be uh prior to June 30th of next year. I just want that for clarification. Thank you. Okay. Scott, I do have a quick process question. Sure. Has anybody asked you to put together a um scope of work that fit a budgeted number? Um, no. Okay. Thanks. and and I would say you know certainly when a the final scope of work is determined we will you
039know budget to that number um you know and certainly work to that number um but you know with that said I think that's kind of a good leadin to the next slide um I was uh if I could just add to that that response uh the reason that we typically can't work to a budget number uh that's like a number that is set as the maximum you'd like to spend is because we need to certify the building to be as new for the next 20 years and it's going to cost what it's going to cost based on the design that is developed to meet the edspec. I think what David was saying though is making sure that we have a design that meets the edspec that also fits within the budget that we have as
040a town as well. I mean that we have to be physically right and and there are there is um you know there is some movement that can happen there and again I think it's a good lead into the next slide. Okay. Um what we've done is provided very very high level order of magnitude a range right now low total high total budget on some of the options we anticipate that you know this group and the town may be considering. Um again these are very very high level based on um you know some initial thoughts as far as square footages for the new building. Um those new square footages include either a pool or not a pool because we know that necessarily that's not a decision that's been made yet. Um, we looked at a little
041bit of different areas associated with those from a low to high of approximately 115,000 square feet. Without a pool is sort of on the low end depending on final edspec decisions, programmatic decisions that could go up to 121,000 square ft. Whereas with a pool approximately 10,000 square ft larger in in both scenarios. From our renovation, we looked at renovating the building itself. So, it was an apples to apples, the existing building, which is just shy of 153,000 without the pool or then with the pool um for 162 uh just shy of 163,000 square ft. Um again, the way we developed these numbers is we took a look at current bidding market projects. We're we're constantly bidding out projects, constantly getting in data from the industry of where we stand specifically in this region and in
042Connecticut. Um so we use those as well as historical data for developing soft costs, contingencies. Again, one of the other factors um that lays into this again between new construction and renovation is the timeline. And as I laid out in the previous slide, you know, we cannot renovate a project as quickly as we can build a new one. So with a renovation project um comes some escalation costs. You you're probably looking at an additional year of construction. That's an additional year of a construction manager, an existing an additional year of escalation costs, which year-over-year we we anticipate to be in the neighborhood of about 5%. Um so that's just some of the highlevel um options in in in data that we used uh to kind of develop the numbers in front of you. So, you
043know, if you start looking and comparing new construction to renovation, again, very high high level. We don't um yet have a you know, a firm grasp on what the renovation would be. How much of the existing building would remain? Could some new new andor additions, demolition of parts of the existing building be undertaken? Those are all possibilities which you know again potentially Slam and and Jim and Kemp and his staff might be looking at if this group decides to go forward with a phase two on the renovation work. Um but as you can see the numbers right now are fairly close between creating a new building and renovating an existing. We did um for this task assumed that the building would be built on the existing campus. uh so there wouldn't be any um land
044procurement or land land involved land purchases. We also then looked at the low and high district share again very high level order of magnitude. These are based on your current reimbursement rates for new construction at 12.14% and renovation at 22.14%. Um you know we do understand there could be some legislative assistance here. Um but again we have to factor in sort of the worst case baseline scenario. Um so again the the anticipated district share is in the third and fourth columns for the four different options that we're currently sort of reviewing and contemplating. And again when you look at new construction to uh renovation the numbers are fairly close. So this just gives you as as you continue these discussions u kind of an understanding you know we don't feel that um you know if
045you do pursue renovate as new um there is going to be a significant savings again as Jim laid out um ultimately if that option is chosen uh with the finalized design once something gets um a little bit more developed we will have to prove to the state in in our opinion with the estim estimates that renovation is cheaper than new. If if renovation comes in and it's shown by the estimates that it's more expensive than new construction, then the state will not approve the project um and they will not fund the renovation. Let me uh interject because I think I think you're done, right, Scott? Yeah, I was just finished. Thank you. Excellent. Excellent. Right. Right. I mean, we've had a few of us had the benefit of seeing this and I've had a couple
046months to think about it, but for Sharon, Michael, David, and Lisa, it's good that they they see these type of slides. Uh we're going to we're going to enter our fourth agenda item, which is discussion, but uh unfortunately, I think we have to um uh bookend this in uh at 700 p.m. Eastern. I'm in California, so that would be 400 p.m. California. So, I want to give Michael and Sharon and David particular time to ask more questions. But what I what I've heard right I'm tipping the balance of scales is we're sort of looking at uh what we what end result we'll get how painful we'll we'll get there, right? and pain is educational delivery cost and timeline and sort of the risk analysis and the uncertainty we face. Right? So that's sort of the
047balance of this teeter tottering seesaw and I think you did a great job laying that out. So I I'll leave it then out to my my colleagues and I think we have about 20 25 minutes of Q&A left and we have to adjourn. So go for it guys and Lisa and Sharon. And I wouldn't mind jumping back into the question I asked before and there's a reason I asked it about did you look at anything from a budget perspective and that's because the board of finance in our town has already set some parameters for what we can afford and those parameters I think are still being worked out. Um so when I look at the chart that you have up here and I look at um I don't understand the with pull or without a
048pool. We have a pool. We're certainly I would imagine we're not talking about removing the pool. And there was a discussion at one point that the pool building itself would be potentially broken away or has become a standalone building so it could be used by the town. So I guess you know let me start with that question. What is I'm not clear on the concept of with or without a pool. When was there a discussion of not having a pool? Um I I don't think that there's um been a definitive decision either way. Um you know, we were just asked to look at at both options. Certainly uh pools have limited funding by the state. Um there's no reason that again without a pool, you could say that you could keep the existing pool building.
049Um you know, if you built new and and tear everything else down and maintain that building. There's a lot of different options and moving parts here. So we were just trying to give you some just baseline numbers very high level order of magnitudes based on a specific scenario. Um but certainly there are a lot of other options and permutations of this. Um but we just wanted to kind of show and again um you know we we did from a renovation standpoint looked at it as as I stated renovating the entire building and not the pool. maybe that, you know, the town could also potentially do that on their own or renovating it with uh with the pool and what that would do to the um you know, again, anticipated state reimbursement. The state um for
050uh programs like pools only reimburse half of your um reimbursement rate. It's it's referred to as a limited eligible reimbursement. So again there was no specific no decisions have been made pool no pool existing pool keep the existing pool if if the rest of the building rem you know gets torn down and we build a new school none of that has been has been defined but I think it's fair I think it's I think we need to put perspective on this so this project what we're talking about this evening um was started a while ago And they were tasked to determine uh state of the building renovate is new or or uh or renovate is new or build a new school. The board of finance post uh you beginning the study came back and it's
051relatively new came back and said well the town can only afford X. in round numbers like $85 million. But what they haven't said to us was it's not $85 in one lump sum. It's that is what the town can afford. We've not we've not asked anyone to go back and say okay you have you have a fixed sum of money um time frame unknown. you know, what would you have to do over the next eight to 10 years because that's probably the number they're thinking of. What would the what what what would the building need over the eight the next 8 to 10 years without doing a renovation. We've not asked anyone to do that. That's a totally different study. Okay. So, yeah. And I understand colleers, you know, what you guys were tasked with.
052I was one on one of the early calls. So, I'm not um I'm not criticizing you for not knowing what to not know to to ask for. So, this is more of getting me to understand where you're at. So, you you haven't been asked about uh uh you haven't been given a budget number to work off of. And to Steve's point, um as a non- finance person, that's me. I can simplify what Steve is saying by simply I think describing it as we've been given a budget of what the town can afford, but it doesn't appear to be a budget that they're going to write us a check on day one. It's an overall borrowing amount that we can borrow over a 10-year period and then have 20 to 30 years of debt to pay
053it back. So, that's a really that's a very controlling factor. There's a budget that the town has said we can afford as a town. And by the way, that top that total budget dollar amount, we are not going to give that to you on day one, January 1st of 2026. We're going to give you uh uh we're going to give you amounts over 10 years. So that to me um is critical information because what you've designed uh is is it's not affordable. The town can't can't afford it. So, um, my other question I'll turn over to the other folks had, and I think the answer is no. Again, I'm not criticizing you because you can't be you can't know what you haven't been asked to provide. Have you looked at uh the ability to rebuild
054or redesign the middle school, but not take it down entirely? In other words, you look at the major mechanicals, the systems that have exceeded their lifespan, systems that are still using refrigerant that you can no longer get properly. Have you looked at the costs to bring the systems in the building up to a 2025 standard without significantly changing the the footprint of the building? Well, yeah, let me I'll I'll respond to that. Um well, first what we've based these numbers on was one just the existing building in its its current configuration and square footage and renovating that to meet the renovation standard so you could get that state reimbursement. So that is you know replacing all systems so at the end the design team can certify that they will last a minimum of 20 years.
055Um as far as the new construction numbers um in previous uh tasks um Tecton was hired and developed an initial educational specification of the programs in in square footage uh that it would uh are needed uh to educate you know provide middle school education for the town of Weston. So that was what we based the new the new on was the square footages contained in that draft EDS spec uh created by Tecton. So if um if you don't bring all the systems up to code and like new all your electrical, mechanical, plumbing, you know, roofing systems, windows, everything, plumbing, um you know, then the state would not participate in in provide the reimbursement for renovation status. You can still do a project of that sort, but everything we say these are the bad the Rwords.
056Repair, replace, you know, if you if you did something with twothirds of the HVAC system or you had to pull down all the ceilings to access that everything you're repairing or you're replacing, if you don't do the whole school and you don't do all the systems as an integrated project, the state says we're not going to pay for it. So then it's 100% on the towel, right? Okay. And my last question then I'll turn it over. Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Scott. I was I was going to make another comment on that. It because it is a different type of project as Scott um alluded to uh the repairs and perhaps extension alterations or in some some cases it may even be a consolidation uh of of square footage. But u there are some components that
057could be eligible for reimbursement for code upgrades. Mhm. Um energy upgrades, things like that. And there are some special there have been some specialized grants for HVAC system upgrades, but I think those have been sunseted. But but I just want to make sure that you're aware that there are components of the work that could be eligible for renovation. Not everything though. Yeah. But but but again just to be clear that this team both Kers and Slam have not been tasked with a surgical capital improvement plan working to a specific budget. Correct. We have not. Okay. And my last question is and I think the answer is no. And again this is not a critique of of of your work. Um have you been asked for a design that you and I came up with this
058several months ago and I don't know that it was popular. I don't know it was unpopular either but a design where you have a school within a school. So there's been a lot of talk about our declining enrollment and how much space we need but also you need to be dynamic. Enrollment is projected to go up but it's not a guarantee. So is there ever such a design where you can take for example an intermediate level school uh in our case the four five uh sorry the 345 and run it inside a school separate entrance separate uh everything is separate but it's a school within a school. So areas where you may have two gyms, two cafeterias to feed the kids but it's a a cooking or a kitchen that's shared. Have you ever done
059projects with that type of design where you where you're kind of running two separate they're they're two separate schools that operate independently but they share certain resources such as those common areas. Yes, we have um we've done some middle high schools uh we've done some K8 schools are are kind of operate that way where you have the elementary component on one wing and the middle school component in another wing. So yes, that is an option. Okay. We haven't been asked to to look at that though just to be clear. Um just just just a point of clarification David Tekken Abslam was tasked with a very specific task in phase one and that was to determine the structural integrity of the building. From that point the board would then make a decision in terms of what
060the next steps would be. So I think it's a little unfair that you that you're saying that they weren't asked to do certain things because that was outside of the scope of the RFP. That's fair. I I've got to hop in here for a second if it's okay. Um I I do understand that um you asked to take a look because I if I recall correctly when we task them with this it was just is it are we even eligible to do a renovation not you know or do we have to go down to absolutely doing a a new build. So, um I appreciate that. It sounds as if we are eligible to do a renovation, but does it make sense to do a renovation is the bigger question. Um so I guess what, um
061dovetailing onto what David said though, when we get to the point, and we do need to get to the point where we're addressing this, you know, will can you work basically within the budget that's given to you or do you I mean, we can't just have a we can't just have it dictated to us how much it's going to cost. we need to figure out how to make it work for our community. And part of it being, as David, you know, alluded to, we do have um some of our the school population has dwindled, especially in the middle school. I mean, that was originally built, I believe, as the original high school for four four grades. We now have three grades. So, that building is actually bigger than we need it to be. Um, so
062looking at that, I mean, the numbers that you have right now are for the existing structure. We would most likely be replacing it or renovating it into a smaller structure. So, I'm assuming that with those parameters, then the numbers would obviously change. Um, but you know, twofold, two questions. One is what David said. If we give you a here's what we can afford as a community, can you help us create something that's going to work for us? Is that something that you're capable of doing? And the second thing is do you have people within your organization that can help us to apply for the under help us to um identify and apply for the grants necessary to get our maximum reimbursement. Well, there's one more there's one more aspect of that, Sharon. The board of
063finance has to tell us of the amount of money they're willing to apply to this project how they want to phase it. I mean, if they're telling us it's five $10 million a year over the next eight years, that's very different than saying you have to work within an $80 million budget. It could just It could just be keeping the roof on the building. I'm not, you know, not doing anything significant. It's probably Yeah. Is Well, and I would Well, I don't don't let me dominate this com. I doubt there's matching funds for that. It's matching funds for some some of it maybe but not all of it. Yeah. From what Kemp was saying, no, that's not a matching funds kind of situation. That is a good luck replacing your HVAC. Yeah. Unfortunately. So, I
064don't really want to be, you know, pennywise and pound foolish in this whole thing, but at the same time, uh, we just have to be fiscally responsible for our community members as well. So, absolutely. That was my comment. And just yeah, typically, you know, budgeting these types of projects and again um you know, I threw a lot at you. Um but the the new construction is approximately 35,000 ft smaller than the existing building because um I believe the educational specifications recognized the fact that the current building is oversized. Um and again, we we're just kind of putting these out there to to give you some very high level numbers. Um but ultimately it's it's the project will cost what the project costs. The only way to reduce costs is to change scope. Um you know
065so if you can build a smaller building or again if there is an alteration project may not be renovation is new to hit certain budget parameters again that can be explored but um you know typically within the industry again why we gave you kind of the low and the high is you know you can only cut down on finishes so much you can only cheapen a building up. you know, we we typically say, "Do you want to build a Chevy or do you want to build a Porsche?" You know, and and I understand you guys are, you know, we want to build a Chevy. Um, you know, so we're going to work with, you know, when you get to that point, you know, make sure that, um, you know, it's budgeted that way and then
066you hold the the architect to that budget. Um, you know, and they would be accountable to to bring the building within that parameter. But at this point, you know, if if you said, you know, we we got to do this for $20 million less, my initial response to that would be then the scope needs to be cut or defined differently based on, you know, in differently from what we have made the assumptions on and generated these numbers off of today. And that's totally fair and I get it. And please understand, we want to build the Porsche. Whether we can afford to or not, I don't know. Um, but I have another question. Kemp, you had mentioned that you've done the school within a school concept. Is that um how does that line up as far
067as um comparatively cost comparatively? Is it you know is it uh much is it less expensive to do a school within a school or there are things that go within that that make it basically equivalent to two separate schools? You know, I mean sometimes you're going to do a school within a school if you don't have two separate campuses or two the plot for two separate buildings, right? they can enlarge the footprint of a building to make it a school within a school. And so that's going to bring the cost down. So I can understand why communities might choose to do something like that. But if we have the space for a fourth school, maybe making it a small a smaller structure, you know, so my is that going to be more costefficient? I don't
068I don't know. I'm asking is a school within a school typically more costefficient than having two separate buildings? I'm not sure that. Well, I mean for operationally it's certainly um less cost to operate fewer buildings, right? I think that's where you're headed with that. Um, but I it's it's very difficult to be able to say with any certainty right now what's being proposed because I I don't really know what's being proposed if you're thinking about trying to utilize all of the square footage in the current middle school, but bring other students there of a different grade configuration in say a different wing with a separate entrance. what was being discussed. You know, that have its own definition. Yeah, I know the name. Remember the address. Hold on, Steve. You're not on mute. Sorry, Kev. You're
069saying Yeah, that's fine. That's that's But that project will have its own scope definition that would have to be evaluated um to determine, you know, what those costs might be. It's difficult to say right now, but and and to categorize, you know, a school within a school as being cheaper, I can't really say that. Okay. Yeah. And I'll I'll just I'll just add that I I I can hear you going and kind of thinking of some different ways to attack this and and if the the scenario is that you have a certain amount of money that you can spend and you want to want a school, it may not be a brand new school, but maybe you can renovate it. And I think the big impact that you need to understand there is if you
070go down that road and decide you're going to spend $85 million and you can't meet the state criteria, then you're going to lose, you know, that potential 10 or 20% reimbursement that the state would give you if you're willing to live with some of the um accommodations or or things that you would have to give up to get that school built for $85 million. You know, I I've seen towns go in that direction um and almost treat it like a extended capital improvement project. And you know, there was a comment that, you know, what if we could spend 10 million this year, 10 million next year, 10 million three years out, and eventually you spend your 85 million over eight years, but you need to treat that more as a capital improvement project, not a
071single, you know, we're going to solve all all of our problems in one spelt move here. Right. Correct. And Sharon, to answer one of your specific questions, do we have people in our organization that can assist with that? Yes, we we can. We've done those types of projects. Um, but it is I just want this board to understand it is a much different project approach than renovation. Yeah. Uh because renovation in the state's definition is very specific that it's a it's a full refurbishment of the entire building to be as new. Yeah. No, I was that's why we included that definition in, you know, it's a big slide. No, no, I wasn't I wasn't necessarily talking about if we're treating as a capital project helping us find reimbursement. What I was talking about if we
072were to either do renovation or if we were to do I guess it would just be renovation where you get these reimbursements for things like that where you're upgrading systems as new would just be a a a you know just reimbursement of a percentage that we get approved. Correct. uh for eligible items. Um because if you go down the path of an extended CIP type project, um there will be a scope for say code upgrades and that includes ADA uh energy code and so forth that could be eligible and we'd have to define very discreetly define that scope that is eligible and and you could put a grant application in for those things for new construction. No, for for you know repairs of very specific scope that the that the state will uh assist on.
073Correct. Okay. But not not deferred maintenance typically. Um typically not repairs, things like that. Okay, that makes sense. I don't want to hog all the time, so Michael or or Lisa or Yep. Yep. I I I have a few questions. Um Kemp, so so that that was very um that was very helpful. Um, just piggybacking off of what Sharon had had just mentioned here. So, it sounds like then if you're applying for the renovate or renovate is new for that grant, all those systems have to be upgraded and they can't be layered in over time. They all have to be upgraded at the same time. It has to be I think um, you know, the phrase was used before integrated sort of an integrated upgrade all at the same time. it can't be layered in.
074If you're talking about a layered in approach because of um issues that we have or considerations around the phasing of that funding, then you're talking about I think what was mentioned before was this surgical capital improvement plan scenario where you have this budget. You're upgrading you're upgrading let's say systems for example over time and some of those upgrades may qualify for reimbursement when it pertains to let's say you know you're getting you know up to code or whatever have you but those are more individualistic grant applications rather than a grant application for this whole sort of for a whole project. Is that is that the accurate way to think about it? Yes. Okay. Um, we don't even know at this point if if we're even eligible for I mean, putting the numbers aside just for
075a second, we don't even know if we're eligible for a grant based on a renovation because we don't know if the cost will be higher, right? And you guys still have to dig into and I assume that's what phase two is. you're still you still have to dig into um just aspects of the building here um as to whether or not it would even qualify, right? I mean, I think you said that from a general perspective, the structural integrity of the building, I guess, was sound, but there are other considerations aside from just the cost that we still have to determine as to whether or not a renovation is even possible for the purposes of a grant. Is that right? Correct. Yeah. The way this RFP was structured was our phase one was to do
076a very high level Yeah. kind of cursory review to make sure that we felt that you could meet the eligibility requirements for renovation. U and that's what we've done for phase one. Phase two is to then take your headsp spec do a a mapping of it and do some space planning to see can we perhaps reduce the size of the building because it is oversized for a middle school for 511 students. Um, and then once doing that conceptual design study, what would the costs be for that? And then that would then tell us if you could meet the cost parameters to be eligible for reimburse for a renovation project. What's what's the um and and apologies if I missed this, but what's the cost for you know I guess I guess one of the asks
077tonight is um for we're contemplating whether or not to approve the go forward on a phase two right as the next step. Um what is the cost of of undergoing that? And and the re the reason why I ask and again not to be pennywise pound foolish here but um it feels like these numbers are already out of reach based on sort of just balancing let's say you know the fiscal um considerations of the town. We haven't even talked about to Steve's point before, we haven't even gotten sort of clarity on the phasing of that funding even if we had the funding. Um, but it does feel like even from a from a totality standpoint, the you know, the funding it it it feels out of reach. So, I guess the question is if it's
078out of reach, do we even move on to phase two? And maybe if it's a if it's a small amount of money, I mean, I guess you can make the argument that we do just to sort of, you know, put this to bed to to really get a definitive determination in terms of, you know, whether even renovation is on the table. Um, it feels like to me this is more of a and look, you know, I we all want the Porsche, you know, we we have a, you know, a Chevy sort of pockets at this point. Um, but the question is, I guess it I guess my comment is it feels like this is this is leaning more and more towards this surgical capital improvement plan um that to David and Sharon's point, you know,
079is needs to be of course um taken into account with this specific budget that the town has laid out and and the and the phasing of the funding in which they're going to provide that to us. Um so so for phase two and sorry I rambled on a little bit there but for the phase two um do we know the cost of undergoing sort of this phase 2 assessment? Yes. Our proposal was two parts. Um phase one was $7500 which we've completed and then phase two was is $40,000 to complete that study. Can we just can you just clarify have you done phase two or everything you presented to us today was part of phase one? We've only pro completed phase one uh and we're we're here today to decide hopefully decide whether or not
080we're going to move forward with phase two. I'm going put the slide up here. So we've on the on the left hand side we've completed phase one and phase two is pending authorization. Let let me clarify. Our We do not have motion language for a decision that requires approval. We'll have to circle back to that. Okay. Uh amongst ourselves, but uh you laid it out exactly right that we had a phase one and then there's a crossroads. Uh and this is starting to clarify those crossroads. I think Michael Guido is getting there on is that investment necessary or not? We have to decide that amongst ourselves. Um, and we also have to perhaps um decide if the risk profile that the town of Weston used to determine the budget is the right risk profile. And
081I think you've laid out a case where maybe they have to revisit the risk profile for the town of Weston financially given some of the options you've presented tonight. So, uh, we're kind of getting the end. I think Steve and Sharon have to leave the call and I have to make sure I have a quorum for adjourning. No, no, I'm I'm I'm still good, Peter. Okay. Peter, I have I have one last just one last question. This is for you. So, I don't want to adjourn until you're you you get the work done you need to get done. I didn't realize. I want to make sure we just have a we do. So, go for it. Thank you. Yeah. Just just one last question, Kemp. What are what are the chances um and I know
082this is very difficult but or or maybe it's not. What are the chances that you guys go through phase two and the renovation numbers um come down come down from what was presented tonight? Yes. Um there is a chance. I can't tell you that it definitively will, but as I mentioned, if if right now you have 152,000 foot building, um, a middle school for 511 students is probably going to be more in the neighborhood of 120,000 square ft. So, you know, you could potentially lop off 30,000 square feet. Where? I don't know yet. We'd study that. Um, that would be part of that study. And so, yes, the numbers could come down, but I'm not certain if they'd come down to the range of the budget that you've put out there today. Um, nor in
083the cash flow that you've put out there today as well, because I think that's a strong consideration you have to to be aware of that um getting 85 million over 10 years is is much different than renovating a building over three years, four years. Not to mention you also brought up uh you haven't done any studies because you don't know yet the cost for hazardous materials and correct uh so that's going and that's always inexpensive remediation and then the second piece is have you done any studies or sorry do we know what the costs are to haul away the debris of the building the actual um uh demolition. Do we have that baked in? we did include um buildings of this era um abatement costs, remediation costs that we're seeing um you know throughout the
084industry. So again very high level you're correct. No specific study environmental report has been done but we did include those costs based on uh current industry standards on buildings of similar age. I'll just add to David's comment. We also didn't bake in uh the cost of 30 trailers for three years and displacement kids and what happens if the containment the siloing of the wings aren't done right and then you have health problems for kids. So there's a lot of moving parts here. That's not the agendas for this evening, but that's the risk profile. So that's why I keep returning to that word because uh I think Michael's almost there. It's like the iceberg effect. That's the conundrum. We sort of know what's above water and we don't know what's below water. And the deeper you
085go, the more unknowns you have, the more uncertainty you have. And I say uncertainty means dollars. And you could spend and spend and spend and you still won't get to what you don't know. And that's really the conundrum we have. So I think Scott did a great job. Maybe we'll use the iceberg analogy next time, but I think I'll let a last question for everyone. If not, I think we'll uh we'll adjourn this meeting because we know what works ahead of us with respect to sort of reconvening and looking at what we've learned tonight. So, any last questions? Are we good or I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. Thank you. I'm good. Okay. Well, thank thanks to everybody. Thanks, Peter, for Look, this is a big decision. We need more direction from aspects of
086the town. Um, certainly this won't be the last conversation. Um, well, thanks to everybody. Uh, can we have a motion to adjurnn? I so move. Thank you. Second. Second. All those in favor? I I thank you. Thank you. the rest of your evening. Thank you gentlemen. That was excellent. Yeah, everyone.