BOE Meeting 12/18/2025

001You convinced Kevin? >> Yes. >> It also gets recorded so [snorts] Please don't doing sales steps in good. >> Okay. Um it's 7:02 on Thursday, December 18th, 2025. The Wilton Board of Education regular meeting is called to order. Um has everyone had a chance to review the agenda? >> Yes. >> Is there a motion to approve the agenda? So, >> thank you, Lori. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Thank you, Pat. All in favor? >> Motion carries unanimously. Um, comments from the public. >> Go see. Um, the board has set aside time at the beginning and end of regular meetings for public comments for members of the public to share their views on matters involving the Wilton public schools and to help inform the board's decisions on such matters. Two minutes will be allotted

002to each speaker and a maximum of 15 minutes to any one subject. For the record, please also give your name and address. The board considers the views of citizens in celebrations and welcomes and appreciates public comment. The board listens to public comment thoughtfully and with interest. The board whoever generally does not respond to public comment during board meetings by offering commentary or answering questions. The board also invites commentators and the public to contact the board or the superintendent directly with any specific questions or comments. Are there any comments from the public? >> There are no changes. >> Thank you. >> Consent agenda. The consent agenda consists of the minutes from the December 4th organizational meeting and also then the December 4th regular meeting. Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda? So moved. >>

003Thank you, Pat. Is there a second? Thank you, Pam. Any discussion? >> All in favor? >> Motion carries unanimously. >> That was um chairs report. Um, I just woke up this morning and, you know, doing the regular things you do and all of a sudden I realized this is our last meeting before the end of the year and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, how did we get here already?" And um, our next first meeting in the new year will be budget. So um I just wanted um to take a minute to say you know recently we've been uh reminded that the world can be a dark place and also that the holidays are a time of light from minoras to Christmas decorations to football games played under lights and teaching and learning is also a

004practice grounded in light it's a search for truth meaning and understanding and as a mother of three in the schools and a board member. Um, I'm grateful to our community's commitment to education and light. And I'm grateful for all the teachers and staff members who walk through our doors every day and bring light to our children in our community. And I wish everyone a bright, light-filled holiday and a restorative and joyfilled season and a healthy and prosperous new year. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Great. I'll just add two points of light to that. [laughter] Uh Jory sent a note earlier this week. Um the first Lego League robotics state championship took place in Glastonbury uh last weekend on December 13th. Um out of 150 teams in the regional qualifiers

005um 48 teams and two from Wilton advanced to the state event. Um one team um called Allied Algorithms won. [snorts] So they're the state champ. Yeah. How about that? >> The second team was >> awesome. Right. >> Awesome. >> Yeah. So the uh second team um they uh were in 27th overall and won the motivation award for team spirit and display of enthusiasm. So another really great showing for uh Wilson students. >> Very nice. >> Pretty great. [clears throat] Okay. Um other than the financial report, please. >> Okay. So, uh spending at this point is about where we would expect it to be for this time of year. Uh the areas that we continue to watch, they're the same ones we always continue to watch. [laughter] Um util utilities, special education, and health insurance. So,

006so far, utilities are about where we expected them to be. Um as has been previously mentioned, we have a few more students who are higher cost. So, we had adjusted what we were anticipating our access cost was going to be this week. yesterday actually they did come out with the preliminary numbers um which is higher than what I had put on the spreadsheet so I'm feeling cautiously optimistic but you know until the money is in the bank you never really know what we're going to end up with um >> we did meet with our insurance broker last week to review our health insurance costs year to date um and to discuss our uh pre preliminary projections for our budget um so far our claims are trending close to what we were projecting. So, we're not

007feeling like anything's out of line and actually compared to a lot of the state um our insurance broker feels that we were in a much better place than a lot of other districts. So, >> what do we estimate about like six 7%. Is that what we >> um we're figuring right now it'll probably be about a 7% increase next year. Um, as a followup to the conversation concerning the denied insurance claim that we had filed for the failed high school rooftop unit that caused the smoke in the cafeteria during the convocation. Um, the unit was not covered because it was 25 years old and basically at its end of life. Uh, luckily the failure did not cause any other damage in the building. So there were no other expenses besides fixing the fan. And we

008did fix the unit. It was about 21,700. And I just mentioned that because we had discussed it previously, but also it also speaks to the fact that a lot of our facilities are aging. Um, and so we do end up with these unexpected costs which then do put additional pressure on the budget. So as we continue to move forward with replacing things, we just want to make sure that we're moving in a positive direction. And so just to correct me if I'm wrong for um the inter we would have to have vet a deductible too, right? So >> yeah, it would have been a $10,000 deductible. >> And then is it our insurance policies? I know as a homeowner you get kind of the remaining value. So even if it had been like let's say

00920 years old, they wouldn't have re would they have given you what they think is the usable? >> So when when the insurance looks at it, there's two different pieces, right? So they would be looking at the unit itself and like you said they would probably prrate it based on what they figure it was worth it's not worth anything so they weren't going to fix it. Um but if there had been damage that was done as a result of the failure of the unit then that would be a separate thing that would then also be covered but luckily because we were all in the building there was no damage. So >> and that would have been a separate claim though if >> it would have been part of the same claim but there's two different

010pieces to it. >> Okay. So it's just in general though just in thinking about our unit our things being at end of life. >> So >> if we had had damage >> could we have gotten reimbursed for the damage absent it being reimbured for the machine itself? >> It would be up ultimately it would be up to the insurance company whether they were going to cover it or not but generally speaking I think that it probably would have been covered. >> Um but typically they won't cover the piece that failed. >> Okay. Okay. where they would typically cover the resulting damage if there had been. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Do we have a lot of end of life things? >> Oh, yeah. [laughter] >> That's on our agenda. >> We're working our way through

011the >> through the end of life things. Okay. >> We'll have a brand new rooftop unit over uh at Middlebrook some point later this year. Um we'll have another one here next summer. So, we're, you know, Yeah. >> plotting forward. So, it's a it's a matter of prioritizing, but there was for a time >> um and Kevin could better speak to this because he has more of the history, but there was for a time where things were not being replaced when they should have been. >> Um and so we're kind of behind the eight-ball right now, hence the reason why we have >> the the larger expenses that are now going to be coming up, but we need to make sure that we're continuing to move forward. And so is this I guess the one

012thing that stood out to me was you called out that this was basically not had zero value but then we fixed it. Is that because we it is part of a replacement program that that that we're going to talk about in a year or so anyway or >> this was unanticipated. >> No, it was it was unanticipated. They put a they put a re >> they reconditioned the unit so now it's no longer at its end of life. It's a fan unit. Um so it's part of a larger piece of equipment um which eventually that the whole piece of equipment will need to be fixed but in the meantime we needed it to be operational so that there was um air movement in the cafeteria. >> I think I understand Mark's question saying like if

013it was 25 years old when was it scheduled kind of to be replaced? Is that >> Yeah. So, we have to look at this. It's on >> the goal is to buy us six months or we're trying to buy six years of this repair sometime. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Closer to six years in six months. >> Okay. >> Any other um questions for >> Yeah, I just had a couple. Um it looks like we're at we're at 100% use of budget on transportation services and vehicle repair. >> Yeah. So we >> is that cuz we prepay transportation services. >> Yeah, we haven't prepaid it, but we do have it encumbered because we know what that cost is going to be. Okay. >> So because we already have it encumbered, that's why it's like we've

014already spent it, but there's a separate line on there. One is what's encumbered and what's been paid year to date. Y >> and if you add the two of them together, that's why it's showing. >> Okay. And there's a few areas that are likely. >> So the total because I'm the new guy that the total transactions that's the incumbrance. >> The incumbrance is what's left to be paid. So yeah, the if you >> Oh, sorry. You did the incumbent several column. Got it. So the total is just incumbrance plus actual and you did it before. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. I think this isn't really a question for you, Laya, but the the down and psychologist at Cider Mill, has that been is that vacancy filled now? How long has it been open for? Does

015this cover a period of time that's already passed? >> Because So, um No. So this um Yeah. So it's it's year to date. So we're we haven't filled the vacancy. We're covering with an infancy who's we have a um temp psychologist coming in on a national basis to do testing. So that's what that So we're drawing from that individual salary line. It's a hard position to fill. >> We just hired um a second milit lucky this time of year. >> Yeah. So, we just need to get lucky again. >> Yes. >> Any other questions for Laya or Kevin on the financials? >> Thank you very much. um I will um let me say that if you don't want to stay for the rest of the meeting that's perfectly okay you should okay take thank you

016take [laughter] some of your feel if you want to hear the facilities discussion that's fine but but after that if you want to um take your leave for the evening you should feel to do that >> I'm just moving to be closer to the machine so I can click um and Um, okay. So, this is a slightly amended presentation from the one that I provided last night to the um built in capital planning committee. The only change is this very first slide. And I actually should have picked it up um in their presentation last night. What I wanted to do with this deck is just capture all of the items on the um recommended um capital projects that touch the board of ed. And so this is part of um an again an ongoing paving

017project. And so that's what you're looking at here. So Frank had presented um this a couple weeks ago to that committee, but just so for your information so you have it when we're looking at um all of the proposed projects for fiscal 27 that touch the board of ed. Um the paving project would be one of them. So the way that this um kind of slide deck works is you have the project and then the financial details behind it. The next one is the um ongoing uh roof replacement project. So this is the first of three sections of roofing that need to be replaced at Cider Mill. And so this section um you'll recall you've heard a lot about the leaks in the media center over there. So um this roof replacement um covers that

018section of the of the media center in addition to you know lots of other sections of the building. So each year when we do bonding um we have a roofing project and so it's just ongoing. So this summer we're doing roofing and some rooftop units here. If this bond is adopted next summer, we would do um you know cider mill and then we would part B and then you know after that and then you know four years out we'd be moving on to high school. This next one is a major renovation project and so you you know um most of you anyway know the story here. So back in the fall of 23, the town commissioned KG&D to do a complete facilities study. And so Eric Kyer, who actually lives here in town, is the

019principal who put that study together. And he generated um a very lengthy list of items that total, you know, somewhere around hund00 million. And so some of the early thinking in responding to that was to try to um tick off some of those items. He had categorized them priorities one, two, and three. priorities. One being things that needed immediate repair like leaking roofs, um failed mechanical units, etc. Um prior to two, um you know, kind of less important but need to be updated and then priority three, you know, less important still. So that certainly made sense to think about those projects. But when we got into it, uh, and the the first test case was last summer when we were renovating the Peterson wing, we as we got into it, um, and we were running

020into some challenges, um, what became very apparent is that, well, it's important to address priority one and two items as soon as possible. Um, there were some priority three items that made no sense to defer. And so, you know, I think the simple example is we ripped out the ceilings and um we're replacing all the duct work. The duct work was priority one. The ceilings and the lighting were priority three. And so to follow on that priority 123 schedule made no sense. So, it made more sense to combine those projects and to deal with a section of a building geographically. And so after lots and lots of conversation, we've kind of altered our process here and our proposal about how we're going to suggest um dealing with these buildings going forward. And so we're thinking,

021you know, geographically more than priority 1, two, three. And so that's why um we started with the Peterson wing where um we have some um unexpended um bonds fund remaining. So, we're continuing to do some flooring, um, painting, um, ceiling tile work because the money is available. That's what the bond was for, and it makes sense to continue that. So, right now, as we speak, um, six green flooring is being replaced. Those rooms are being painted. Um, we'll replace the ceiling tiles and the lighting this summer and then we'll move on um to the next section of the building. in trying to prioritize projects because there are so many thinking about the buildings and all of the work that needs to be done. Um it also made sense to try to finish the either the

022less expensive projects or the um the smaller projects before we move on to major projects. And so thinking about how we sequence we this whole entire high school needs to be redone. Um, so prior to getting to that, there's been some consensus around that let's finish Middlebrook because we started at Middbrook. We've got some exterior and interior work to do at Cider Mill. Um, Cider Mill was already touched once 6 years ago and so the work is not as um expansive. So let's try to finish Cider Mill and then we have two virtually complete and renovated buildings and then let's fully turn our attention to the high school. So that's why these projects are laid out the way they are. Um the last piece just on this before I get into what this is, um

023you'll see if you haven't seen it already, the number for um you know a virtually complete renovation of Middlebrook is um slightly north of $20 million. I'm not anticipating the town's going to propose a $20 million bond to get this work done in this year. Um but we wanted to make sure we captured um the full scope of the project and so we keep that in front of us as a priority. We re-engaged with Eric Kyer to walk through the building and to update the needs assessment from 23 and to capture it in a single proposal. And so that's what you have in front of you. Um on this slide deck, I probably broke it down to kind of just two pieces. Um one is really all of the interior work. And so that includes

024flooring, uh the ceiling tiles, lighting, painting, um classroom, uh upgrades, so you know, furniture, teaching surfaces. Um the technology is really just updating the the wiring in the ceiling. Um so we have um I think CAT 5 and we want to, you know, update it to CAT 6. Um and so the total cost of doing that um throughout the building is um what you see at the bottom the estimated cost is 13 million, you know, $400,000. Um what's not included there is the cost for abatement. And so um that's got to be added to that. So there'd be a slight increase on that number. Um Jose was still getting those numbers and there's not a huge amount of square footage that needs to be abated, but that um a small section within the media center

025um section of the um hallway in the original section of the building. So um we're not talking about the entire school building, but some sections of the original building have um asbestous in the mastic in the flooring tile. The remaining work at uh Middlebrook is the exterior work. And so that would be, you know, sidewalk repair, replacement, stairs um on the backside where necessary, handrails uh where necessary. Um there's some brick that needs to be um repointed, some metal siding that needs to be replaced, and then, you know, I think more importantly, the doors and windows. Um we have a lot of exterior doors in that building that are um past the end of their life that um casings are rotted out at the bottoms and so you know those are um fairly urgent. Um

026and then sealant around you know windows um and so that total cost there um was $8.6 million to do all of the exterior work. The only item that we didn't include in this proposal was the concept of um building new bathrooms at the auditorium. You know, that's been a a topic. There's a need there. Um but that was additional construction. And so we just set that aside. And um there's also been discussion of adding air conditioning to the auditorium. And so at some point we'll have to talk about that. But just so you understand what's in this um those two pieces were not included. Um, in Eric's work, he kind of laid it out geographically and colorcoded it. And so, a lot of what you see in the purple, certainly on the lefth hand side,

027um, most of that work has been completed minus bathroom renovations, minus updating furniture, minus updating um the ceilings to um, operate the technology in the classrooms. on the far side um of group A at the top of that drawing um that's the six green wing. So we're working there now and we hope to um work our way through um seven green um which would be the remaining purple right in the middle top there um later this winter. Um and then if there are any remaining funds after that we would just try to push forward. Um, so you can see, you know, the categories, you know, within those color-coded areas are, you know, essentially the same. These are the costs associated with each of those pieces. Um, in the cost estimates, Eric did account for um

028the work that was already bonded. And so, you know, while he's got the cost there, if you look at the total, if you're trying to, you know, add across the, you know, the subtotal bottom row, um, he's already factored in, um, work that's been, you know, bought paid for. Moving on from Middlebrook, um the next set of recommendations are Cider Mill and so um the exterior envelope of Cider Mill needs to be addressed. Some of these items were priority items in that 23 AGB facility study. So um brick reporting, there's cracks in the masonry, curtain wall needs to be repaired. Um, similar to Middlebrook, uh, we need to replace exterior doors and then, um, you know, perimeter and expansion joints need to be resealed and then there are some, you know, gutter leaks in various

029places around the building and, you know, some also need to be repaired. Um, the total cost of all of that work um, was just about 2.7 million. Um, I do have a, you can see in red, I have a question for Jeff Partardo that I haven't had answered yet. Um, but there is a an inclusion of, um, air cooled um, chillers. Um, and so we're replacing the um the chiller this summer that's already been bonded. Um, it's not clear to me if those other components that are included in that are not. And so if they're not, then that would have to be accounted for somewhere here. If they are, then you know, we're good to go. And then the site work um around um Cutter Mill. So this was, you know, primarily a priority two

030set of items. So, concrete stairs on both the north and south side. Um, around uh leading into the original gym, there's sidewalks that need to be uh repaired or replaced. Uh exterior handrails. Um there's a retaining wall near the front entrance that needs to be um repaired. Um and I've already mentioned doors and windows. The total cost there is just under a million dollars for that work. So those are the sets of the kind of next set of priorities um for us that we put in front of the town capital. I'll come back to you um when we meet again in January um with a like five-year look. And so the next set of priorities after this would be the remaining interior cider mill and then we move on to the high school. If you've

031been following the town capital planning committee, um you know, there's just there's been a lot of um like circular conversation and just a real challenge to try to move forward. Um and lots of you know really valid reasons for that. One of the recommendations I'm going to have for you, and um I mentioned this to Ruth yesterday, and I'm going to ask a few of you to join me um for a call in a couple of weeks when we get back from the break, but I think it would be in the board's best interest to contract with an owner's uh representative firm. And so there are companies in the world that, you know, basically serve as representatives for school districts. Um I had a conversation with a couple of gentlemen from Collers and they are

032right now working in Weston in New Cananan in Deranne. They've done work in Ridgefield. They're working in uh Fairfield as well. And so you know they're a group of experts that help guide these major construction processes um to ensure that bidding is done right and well. Uh they interface with general contractors. um they're experts in um the state reimbursement process which can be really Byzantine and so um recognizing the challenges that we have on the town side and just the the kind of general lack of expertise we'd probably be benefited we would benefit from services like that. So, um, what I thought we would do is arrange a call, generate some questions, and just explore that possibility. And then that might be, um, something that we'll want to pursue as we're getting, you know, deeper

033into some of these projects. >> Sounds like a good idea. >> I I think >> considering the town's kind of struggling with a lot things. >> Yeah. And as a community, we have a lot on our plate. So, um I have to take some questions on these, but I wanted you to have this information um since it was presented um already to the uh town capital planning committee and we've got a lot of work to do. >> Kevin, will we still have our own bonding process or is it all going to be combined for all the town capital projects? Well, the the town um is the selectman of the body that um has the authority to bond. The board of ed doesn't. And so all of the projects, you know, funnel through them, you know,

034so you've heard me say in the past, you know, we're renters, not owners. And you know, statutoily that's that's the reality. We obviously >> we generate the project proposals, but um you know, it's it's a town responsibility. And then what at the town meeting what is voted on for bonding is what is presented to the town by the board of >> the paper. >> So it's we're two steps removed from from that. >> Yeah. And I think that's the intent of this capital planning committee is to look at the entire universe of projects and then try to follow a process to make some prioritized recommendations. >> Does a company like Collier function as a project management team? They would they're so they'd be owner representatives. Um so they'd be your rep working with the architect

035contractors, you know, that ultimately, you know, would be hired to to do the work. >> How would that fit with the town services? >> Yeah, I mean they would it's consulting services, right? So, um I mean there's still you need you know town or board oversight people employees here to interface with them for sure um and to collaborate on their expertise >> it lessens the burden the the day-to-day operational burden [clears throat] on the town employee side. >> Yeah. Sorry would put it though because are they agents of the board of education or are they agents of the town if we hire them? >> So they I mean if if the board of ed hired them they would >> they would be agents of us not of the town. >> Yeah. >> So the town

036I don't I'm not sure if the town would actually have less work. I I don't know. Well, I think if we're providing them with a person that has the expertise and the management capability, then it's more of a it's it's not a direct responsibility on their part. The same as if um [snorts] is there would be somebody who's on the ground on a day-to-day basis. It doesn't ne need to be a town employee. >> Yeah. I think, you know, I go back to the way that we kind of functioned this summer and, you know, Jeff Partardo was largely responsible for crafting all of the RFPs, for the daily engagement with all of the contractors and the subcontractors for doing all of the followup. And so, uh, you know, why you wouldn't let all of that

037go, I think the majority would be, you know, picked up by an owner's representative firm. And so, in that respect, you know, it would lighten the load. Um, you certainly don't let go of your oversight responsibilities, >> but they wouldn't get involved in non-school related projects. >> No, I think the recommendation for me would be very specific to board of education projects. Yeah, >> that would help facilitate that side of the towns. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> would we bid those services out? >> Oh, yeah. I think you want to do that. It's it's a potential path. It's a potential pathway I think because the town I mean sitting on the capital planning committee there's a couple of you know there's a um a resource capacity barrier and then there's also a funding you know

038barrier in terms of um financing. So I think the more that we can help >> facilitate removing some of those barriers um would go a long way to um easing um completion of the projects in front of us. >> Yeah. So I think the the next opportunity um you know for you and you know whoever would like to participate um I'll just set up a call and so we'll kind of ask our questions, learn about the way the services work. you know, I'll pick one firm that we can talk to and then we'll have a sense of how the process works. And just out of um curiosity, the um kind of the way this is the Middlebrook and then the cider mill work set up um in terms of moving forward with Middlebrook interior because

039we've already been you know it's already halfway through and in progress. But then between the exterior work at Cider Mill versus the exterior work at Middlebrook, those are really in are those priorities interchangeable? >> Yeah, I mean they were listed. I have to go back and just verify, but they were in that initial KG&D study, you know, they were um I think they were priorities on two and not each piece in all of the site work or all of the, you know, exterior rena was one or two. So it depended on what the piece was. Um one of the you know Rich Santski has been asking you know similar question for more than a year now but you know he's looking at magnitude and you know has said things like well if you're doing the

040pointing at Middlebrook why don't you do all the pointing and maybe you get one vendor to do it all or if you're doing cement work at one school why don't you do all the cement work and maybe you'll get a better price you know if you're increase the size of the project. I think that the other challenge um with the the town capital planning committee is just not really having a full sense of the bonding capacity right now. And so um part of my rationale for presenting this in this way is $20 million is a large number. You can certainly break it up into smaller pieces. Um but we also have some other smaller projects. And so what I want to avoid is trying to do this work peace meal. And so if there's only

041a million dollars available, well, we have a million-dollar project and that would, you know, address substantively, you know, one of the, you know, significant projects. We have $5 million >> that you can plug and play within the the overall >> um outline. >> Yeah. And so that was Rudy asked that question last night if I was gonna rank order these and I said, [laughter] >> you know, and I didn't I wasn't being jerky about it, but I I just [clears throat] again, you know, >> it all needs to be done. >> Yeah, it all needs to be done. And again, if we had a sense of, you know, what dollars were available, um I might have a different perspective. And you know, I think until we know that, that's going to strongly influence the conversation,

042>> right? But it's not a question of whether it needs to be, you know, >> it all needs to be done. >> Yeah. >> And this isn't even the high school. >> No. >> Which is a whole another thing. >> Yeah. I mean, it's just it's it's all of that, you know, >> plus Yeah. >> times two. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Great. All right. Anything else on this? So, you have it and lots more to uh to come. Let me put your present. >> It's It's funky. You're going to have to reach to uh >> um Yeah, if I I can sit over there. >> You want me I can manually. >> No, that's okay cuz I'm going to skip around a bunch. So, and just um just wanted to This is Merk Shane, our

043newest member, our only new member. So for some of us the will be review and for Mark it'll be new. >> Sure. >> How much time do I have? >> Hours. >> Here all night. >> Is this the last? >> This is not this is not like a a board of ed meeting in other towns. We you know we >> Yeah. >> We know that nothing good happens after 9:00 and I like >> All right. So but but I'm your last item. >> But you're the last item. >> Oh, actually you know what? Do you want to just do you want to make a motion to put the calendar ahead? >> Yeah. Yeah. Um can I have a motion to amend the agenda to put the action item revised uh 205 to 26 calendar um

044next on the agenda? >> So moved. >> Thank you, Nicholas. Is there a second? Thank you, Pam. All in favor? >> Carries unanimously. Um Um Mark graciously pointed out to us that um pri in prior years the meeting schedule had always gone um the full calendar year and somehow lately it got truncated to the school year but under state law we need to post the dates for the full year. So I we revised the calendar to have we always meet the first and third Thursday of the month. So now all the dates are in there and completed. Um while we were at it too, um originally on the calendar that we had passed at the last meeting, our joint BOE BOF meeting was going to be on February 12th. And now after talking with the

045board of finance, we have changed it to Tuesday um February 10th, which is their regular meeting date. So that gives them one meeting in the week instead of two. And um in addition to that um the budget workshops we now have um added what will be the topic of discussion at each budget workshop. Um any questions on the revisions or the calendar? Is there a motion to approve the revised um 2526 board of education calendar? So move. Thank you, Pam. I'll take Lori a second. Um, any questions or discussion? All in favor? >> Motion carries unanimously. Okay. Um, good evening everybody. Uh, it's good to be here again. I know all but one of you have been here, done that. So, I'm going to try to be nimble with this presentation. As I said to

046Mark at the beginning, um some of the nuts and bolts I think you'll get from the cave workshop when you take it, but um I I would suggest that we work backward and talk through some scenarios and do some nuts and bolts that way to keep it fresh for everybody else. However, I do always like to start with the pop quiz, which is and those of you who have done this, you know, you can help teach with me. Um and the pop quiz is this. What are your many roles and responsibilities as a board of education? >> I can tell you what the cape handbook says. [laughter] >> Are you reading? Cuz that's cheating. >> Oh, I know. >> It's policy. It's basically audit and it's uh and then they said budget, but then they

047redefine budget as your most important policy. So, it's really just policy and budget and uh audit. >> Yeah, those are absolutely those are the two big ones. And so policy um why is policy so important to the board of education's work? What are board policies? >> The the policies are like the set the overall tone and guidelines for the superintendent to then go ahead and achieve operationally. But it sets the the tone and understanding about what as a community and what as a board we expect for out of you know the performance of the district. >> Yes, that's exactly right. And actually that's true of some of your policies. A lot of your policies come directly from the Connecticut state statutes and they are required by law and they actually are your laws. So they

048are the laws by which the board functions and your superintendent who is by law your chief executive officer is responsible for implementing those laws. [snorts] And um some of those laws are very prescriptive and detailed. I'm calling them laws but they're policies. Some of them are very general. Some of them that as you Ruth said set the tone might have one sentence right in them. And then how does your superintendent know how to implement those policies? Those that are very general or um limited in their description of what it he's supposed to do. Is anybody familiar with what comes with policies? >> We have regulations that are also on our books. >> I'm sorry. Say that. >> In some cases, we have regulations that are tied to policies on our books. >> Exactly. Exactly. They're

049called administrative regulations and those are the regulations that are adopted administratively. They are not necessarily passed by the board. Although in some cases you may um vote on regulations. Generally I advise against it because they are supposed to be flexible um and they are supposed to indicate how your policies are implemented in the school. So yes, policies are very important because they not only set the tone for how your school district operates, but they're also required by law and they are your laws. Um budget obviously a big one. I know you're in the middle of or about to begin budget season. Um, and with budget, you know, comes all the priorities that you're setting, maybe your strategic plan. There are actually a lot of other things that you all are responsible for doing. And I

050was just talking before about how the last time I saw Patrick was at what do you guys remember? >> Oh, we had a um a hearing a >> grievance hearing. Yes. >> So you have what I like to call a quasi judicial function. You all serve at times as a judge, collective judge. And um sometimes that comes in the form of presiding over grievance hearings, which are hearings that come to you if there is an employee who has alleged that the administration or the board has violated the collective bargaining agreement apply applicable to the employees. And so it'll start with the administration and it may get appealed to the board. Um that particular type of hearing is interesting because it's more in the nature of negotiations or collective bargaining than it is in the nature

051of you're a judge who has to be impartial and the person on the other side gets due process. There are other hearings where you are truly a judge and you have to truly be impartial because the person on the other side has a constitutional federal constitutional 14th amendment right to due process. So you can't really know anything about it before it actually comes to you because that could compromise your ability to be impartial. Does anybody know what I am referring to there? >> Well, it could be an expulsion hearing. Mhm. >> Um it could be a um a firing or a disciplined causation um causation hearing. >> Yes. So student expulsion here in Wilton, you delegate that responsibility to an independent hearing officer um which many districts do. And so um there are other reasons

052why you wouldn't or shouldn't know about those matters, namely the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, student privacy. Um and then you know Ruth as you alluded to it's termination specifically termination proceedings related to specifically certified staff who were certified staff teachers and administrators. Anybody else who gets terminated um could grieve that under the contract but you're not the ones who would decide. you are the ones who would decide whether um Kevin's recommendation to to terminate a teacher or an administrator should be upheld. So why is that important? It almost never happens. It hasn't happened in the 10 or 11 years I've been working with you all. Um because most of those matters end in separation agreements. Um but up unless and up until the point when we reach a separation agreement or when with

053the employer um you know when the employer resigns there is still the possibility that you may have to serve as a judge in in a termination hearing. Why do I say this? Why is this important? Has anybody heard me explain this before? This is important because this is why the information that you get about personnel matters um necessarily has to be nothing or very limited. So there might be something that's on the front page of or you know in the in the local blogs or the local papers about a teacher and ironically um your superintendent cannot share anything with you because if he does then that could compromise your ability to sit impartially in ultimately what could be a teacher or administrator termination hearing. There's one other category of hearings where you would have to

054sit as judge. Does anybody know what those are? also hasn't happened here in Wilton in recent memory. Coach hearings. So, athletic coaches who have served in their same coaching position for at least three years have the right to a hearing before the board if their contract is non-renewed or terminated. So, um sometimes, you know, you may find that there is a high-profile coaching situation, also something that you wouldn't know about. [snorts] Um so, that those are the big ones. And um I now I'm going to pivot a little bit and ask you what is your role and responsibility as an individual board member? We were just talking about the collective. What about as an individual? Oops. Do you have any responsibility or authority as an individual board member? You have responsibility, not authority. >> Not

055authority. >> Okay. So maybe it was the common authority. What is your what is your authority? So right as an individual >> because the board delegates authority to you. >> Exactly. Exactly. Um you don't need that cave course. You already know it. >> Everything. [laughter] >> Right. So as an individual board member, you don't have any authority. You only have authority as a member of your team. Your team being the board sitting around this board table. um unless the board delegates specific authority to you um or even sitting in a committee unless the board delegates authority to a committee to do something. Um interestingly there can be a committee of one and the reason I say that is that sometimes if the board says I want you to do this um you have to be

056careful because that committee of one might be subject to the foyer rules. Um, so the other thing I wanted to mention as we're talking about this is first of all, you have an obligation under state law to implement the educational interests of the state. Is the board of education a town body an arm of the town of Wilton or is the B board of education an agent of the state of Connecticut? >> Both. >> The latter. in just a town, >> state of Connecticut, >> just the state of Connecticut. >> But you're not wrong in thinking that you are very connected with the town because the town is your purse strings. The town holds your purse strings, I should say. They you get all of your funding from the town. Um, and so that's why

057you work, you're inextricably linked with the town and the work that you do, as we just heard for the last half hour. Um, but you are an agent of the state and that's important because you at your core have an obligation to implement the educational interests of the state. What are the educational interests of the state? >> Lot of them. >> A lot of them. And where where can you find them? >> Connecticut General Statutes. >> Yes. [laughter] >> The Connecticut General Statutes. I mention this because sometimes I'm asked, well, do we really have to do this? You know, I'll give a recent example. So, um, in this last legislative session, the general assembly passed a law requiring boards of education in Connecticut to adopt three library policies. I don't know if you're familiar with

058this, if this has come before you yet, but um, there are some districts who are boards who say, "Well, do we really have to do this? And if so, why? Who are the who's the general assembly to tell us what to do? We're we're good." Well, the answer is yes because you are legally obligated under the Connecticut General Statutes section 10- um 10A I believe to implement all of the laws that the state passes. If you do not do that, then somebody could file a complaint with the state or the state could bring a complaint suante under section 10-10b that you are not implementing the educational interests of the state and that's not fun. In short, you don't want to be there. Ultimately, they can compel you to do that by taking you to court.

059So, you may not like a lot of what the general assembly requires you to do, but um you are obligated to to implement it. Um just a note about budget and a note about your role versus the town's role. [snorts] So um who who can tell me about your budget and what authority if any the town um funding bodies have over your budget? >> My understanding is the town sets the amount of the total amount. They cannot manage line items. >> That's exactly right. >> With respect to your operating budget, there is a separate capital budget. Again, I I love that you I just sat through your capital projects plan because that is a town account. Your capital account is a town account. It's kind of a shared account. So, they get to make the

060decisions there. Um, and they can make line item decisions, so to speak, but not with respect to your operating budget, which was what you're about to work on starting when you come back. You can ask for a total amount of money and they can simply appropriate it or not or they can cut it down but they cannot micromanage your line items >> and they are actually limited in how much they can cut it down unless we meet certain criteria. >> Correct. By the minimum budget requirement which is a whole separate body of laws. Um they can't go below what was appropriated the year before and then there's a number of very specific exemptions that are really narrow. Um, so, uh, given the hour, I'm going to go to our first scenario. And, and by the

061way, there's there's a lot of information here. There's no way I could cover it in the next hour and 10 minutes, but I'm hoping feel free. This is interactive. This is for you. So, feel free to ask me questions as we go. I want to make sure we cover also FOYA um, and communications as as we go through this. So the first scenario is this if I can read. The board is convened in a public meeting and the topic of discussion is a bell-to-bell cell phone ban. Community members have strong opinions on the topic in both directions. During public comment, they line up to share their views. You listen carefully to the comments and have your own questions about the impact of a ban on school security and student mental health. You're also wondering whether

062there may be less costly ways to implement the ban. The superintendent shares the results of his analysis and seems to have addressed all the key points. You have some lingering questions, but in the interest of efficiency and because you trust your stellar superintendent implicitly and because you want to get out by [laughter] 9ine, you keep your mouth shut. And this was written with you in mind, Dr. Smith. Um, you keep your mouth shut and decide to let the chips fall where they may. Your fellow board members are similarly quiet and the superintendent decides to implement the ban effective immediately. The next day, the board receives a flurry of angry emails accusing the board of rubber stamping the superintendent's decisions and abdicating its responsibility to oversee matters of school security. You try to ignore the emails,

063but they just won't stop. You're wondering if you should have addressed each public comment last night as it was made. So, I have a number of questions here. Um, but really the goal here is to unpack this. But let's start with the first question, which is hopefully the easiest one. Should you have addressed each public comment during the board meeting? Why or why not? >> No. >> Why not? >> You always told us that we had to sit like a what was it? The frog on the >> Bumps on the line. [laughter] And we just had to sit there and take it no matter what. >> And why is that? >> Because we can't address it all. And then we it it creates we don't want that dialogue. We don't want to go there. We

064just have to listen. That's our job is to listen and not go to where they're going. >> Yeah. So there are a number of reasons uh and this is very hard for board members because one of your responsibilities which I didn't specifically mention is that you do have a responsibility to liaz with the community and to keep your ears to the ground and to report back and to take feedback. And I like the comment you started with, Ruth, when you invited public comment. That's absolutely right. The feedback from the public helps you to formulate your decisions about things. It helps inform the deliberative process and that's why you have public comment. But the you meet the meeting of the board of education is a meeting in public. It is not a meeting of the public.

065And that's an important distinction. So you can invite people to comment and to give you feedback and you can listen carefully to it and consider it, but it it's not an opportunity for you to engage in that dialogue for a number of reasons. Number one, it could be a FOYA violation. So you have public comment on general items, not just agenda items at the beginning and the end of your meetings. Mhm. >> So if somebody brings something up that's not on your agenda and you start to talk about it, all of a sudden that's a a violation of the meeting requirements of FOYA because you're talking about something on that is not on the agenda. If you're in a regular meeting technically foyer FOYA tip, you can somebody can move to add the item to

066the agenda and it can pass by a twothirds vote. But can you imagine if you tried to get everything done in addition to adding items to the agenda? So there's that. There's that. Number two is if somebody brings something up and and one of you speaks about it and what you say somehow prejudices something that could be a due process issue or is inaccurate or speaks out ahead of your superintendent who is dealing with the issue that that could create a problem and potential liability for the for the school district. And finally, number three, it's really just a community relations optics issue. How do you pick and choose who you respond to and who you don't respond to? Uh so for all those reasons, um generally speaking, boards do not engage with the public during

067public comment, but of course, as you appropriately said in your opening comment, um people can of course email you. Uh we'll talk later about when it's appropriate to forward that email along to Dr. Smith to respond to, but that's the way that people get their questions answered. they have to go through the appropriate chain of command and get the questions addressed at the lowest possible administrative level. So let's but let's get back beyond that piece of it. Um, so basically what's happening here is you have a really important topic and you're all sitting there and you have a lot of good questions and everybody just lets it pass. And so people are mad because they see they believe that you're not really engaging with the topic and that you're just listening to your great superintendent,

068which is a good idea. Um, however, maybe people want to see that you've at least asked some of the questions that might be on their minds. So, if you had it to do over again, might you have done anything differently? And if so, what? >> I think it's really important at this table. like we deal with so much all the time that sometimes we feel like we've exhausted a topic or idea but like our most visible work should be done at the table. So I think it's really important to engage in discussion to ask questions even to ask questions that you might already know the answer to but you might think that a lots of people or in the community might not know the answer to it and it gives an opportunity for it to

069be addressed and >> [clears throat] >> um talked to and a um there is a you know I don't believe personally that you know the superintendent is our one employee And if we if the relationship was contentious then is that the right employee relationship. So I do think that there should be and usually there is alignment um [clears throat] around the table with the superintendent and that doesn't mean that you can't ask questions or um be probing in [clears throat] a in a um respectful manner. And I think it's also important to remember that, you know, it's hard sometimes with the public because getting an answer the to a question doesn't necessarily mean it's the answer that they want to hear. And those are two two different things, but I think it's important to make

070sure that the question is >> is asked. And so, um, you can be a rubber stamp because or perceived as a rubber stamp because you don't on in a public in a person's mind because you don't do what they want, but you could also be perceived as a public uh rubber stamp because you're just not having discussion around the table. Yeah. So, the board of education me the board of education's meetings are the most visible aspect of what you do. So, you may receive a lot of information from Dr. Smith that informs your decisions and you don't really have any questions because he sent you 300 pages of literature about why this is a good idea. You've all done your due diligence and you've read it and you're good. But sometimes for the benefit of

071everybody's understanding and because and by the way that would be a public document, right? If somebody asked made a foyer request for it, they could get it. Maybe it's posted as part of your agenda. So people could have access to that material and they can read it. Um but sometimes because you cannot have discussions outside of a public appropriately noticed meeting under FOYA, this would be the only time for you to say to each other, hey, are you good? Are you good? Do we have any more questions? And to have a little bit of dialogue about what you've read, maybe to summarize it because the meeting is your your most visible the most visible aspect of what you do. Not always. I'm not suggesting that you have a discussion or ask questions just for the

072sake of it because that would be inefficient. Um, but keep in mind that the the a public um agency is unique here in Connecticut. It's probably similar in other states because you can't have those discussions in private. This is your really your one opportunity to talk together about what makes sense for you as a board. Um, this is a Let me skip to the last one and then we'll circle back to the vote. Um, how should So, you're getting all these angry emails. How should you respond if at all to the emails? >> We let Rose do that. >> We do not. >> You guys are good. [laughter] You are very disciplined. Yes. So in general the >> even though it's tempting. >> Yeah. A good protocol Ruth as your chair um is the your

073chief spokesperson for the board. Um Kevin is your superintendent is your chief spokesperson for the administration. Not all issues are board issues. And so this gets to the third bullet point. So if they if there are issues that relate to operation then it's always a good idea to forward them to Kevin. and Kevin can forward them, you know, to somebody else as appropriate. If they are emails or feedback that relate to something that the board has done, then generally Ruth would be the one to respond on your behalf. Does anybody here ever respond in addition, you know, on your own? >> Okay. [clears throat] I I guess I have a question there like because again it's we got the the emails around uh like the parent engagement and we got the like hey I'd like

074to help right and it just coming back to the like you have a responsibility to also listen to the town like is it isn't it is it not appropriate to say I'll listen >> like in a personal capacity right >> and how do you separate those two things >> so interesting so in responding to an email or in having a meeting or in attending a meeting. There's a lot of different ways that you could listen. And I would say any and all of the above. >> And um and it's important to remember what I said before, which is you have no in special authority as an individual. So you can't promise anything. You can't make representations on behalf of the board. You can listen um and you can report what the board has already done.

075And that's pretty much it. You can't share confidential information which you've obtained in in executive session. But there is nothing wrong with listening and taking that back um when you're sitting at the board table and having that be part of your contribution to the deliberative process. >> One of the things I because I get stopped by people all the time, you know. >> I'm trying to figure out like how's an email different from somebody walks up to me on the street and says, "Oh, you're on the board. Can we talk for I want to tell you like I had a parent stop me and say like I want to ask you about the testing at military school and I was like I don't know anything about those but if you want to tell me stuff

076I'll listen >> and she told me what her concerns were. I was like great thank you very much. And >> so what I always do is I I listen and then I also encourage them to reach out to their teacher to the lowest you know to the first their teacher >> reinforce the chain of command. >> Yeah. So, I just I re I reinforce the process and then I ask them to get back to me if the process isn't working for them >> because that's what we are. We're a policy, you know, the board can say to then Kevin like we have these processes in place for parents to be able to ask these questions or get feedback and a parent came to me. I might send Kevin a note like a parent came to

077me and they said they reached out to the teacher and the administrator and they didn't get back to them. Can you the process should work? So, and I am always careful with people when I tell them like getting getting the answer you want and getting an answer are two are are two different are two different things. Um I think I when the emails come into the BOE um I always um re try to reply all. So everybody sees um the interaction and just in general if somebody emails to you individually I think like the best kind of process is you can respond to them and then either include all of the BOE on your response or include me and that way we're all you know none of us have information that we don't all have.

078>> Okay. Okay. So, if you include all the B maybe I'm jumping ahead on the other board I've been on this like don't email everyone because now it becomes a meeting. >> So, it's if it's if it's just like information only then it's just information like thank you for your email like the way I email people back like I don't give them answer. I say this is what where the board is. This is where we are the process or what whatot. >> Yeah. So, a couple things on that point. If it's a unilateral communication and nobody replies all then it doesn't violate FOYA but the the moment somebody replies then it's a you know a discussion >> sounds like debate or discussion >> right >> but Ruth I want to come back to what you're

079saying because you're drawing an important distinction between somebody reaching out to any of you to talk about really something that is more ad operational in nature and somebody giving you feedback on something that the board has taken up. I I completely agree. I love reinforce the chain of command. Um my advice on that, it's what you said. It's Thank you. You know, why don't you talk to principal? Why don't you email Dr. Smith? I also would add to that that I suggest you should and Kevin, tell me if you disagree. You should also give Kevin a heads up anytime something like that comes to you because you don't know if that person is going to actually reach out to the appropriate administrator and it could be something really serious and I wouldn't want you to

080be sitting alone with that information if it never makes its way because some people in the community are under the misunderstanding that if they tell you then they're good, right? They've told the administration everybody knows. But that's not actually your role. Your role is not operational in nature. So tell Kevin that's a good practice. Um in terms of responding to email, I love to listen to what you all do and what's working for you because there isn't one right or wrong answer except the foyer wrong answer which is you can't reply all. So for example, if Ruth replied on behalf of the board and then Mark chimed in and said, "Oh yeah, you know, blah blah blah." all of a sudden you've got two board members replying to the entire board and technically that's a

081meeting via email. Um you could respond individually which is I what I know some board members do in other places. Um like if Mark replied just to the person who wrote and said thank you for your feedback. You know I'm not sure why some board members feel that they need to do that. If you're not doing that, I'm not suggesting you start, but technically that's something that could be done under FOYA. Um, cell phone ban. I I don't even know the answer to this. Did you Did you Did the board vote on the ban? >> You I'm sorry. We voted on the policy that then personal devices. >> Oh, okay. So, the polic is part of their regulation. >> Oh, okay. Okay. The policy. All right. Interesting. Um, so this is where this is where

082I >> the policy is the acceptable use policy. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And the cell phone piece specifically is part of the administrative regulation. >> Perfect. And I say this because this is where I want to circle back to what I was saying about the distinction between your role in policy and Kevin's role in regulations. cell phones. That's an operational matter. It's a very important issue for a lot of school districts and and people in the community feel very strongly about it on both sides, but really that is an administrative operational matter. At the at its core, it's a school rule. So, um that may come up as you go along, right? You may give Kevin feedback on it as I sounds like you did. Um, but there are certain things that he can do

083as the superintendent that you don't need to do and probably shouldn't do. Can't believe we're only on scenario one, but we've covered, I think, scenario two. Um, but let's just do it. Yesterday, a parent published a piece in a local blog detailing the racism and bullying that he believes runs rampant in the district schools. He criticized the administration for failing to take appropriate action and identify two administrators by name. During tonight's board meeting, parents line up to pile on and tell their own stories about bullying and some affirm the concerns about the two administrators named in the blog. You are very worried as a board member about your own liability here as well as the boards. You decide to speak up and express empathy for the parents who have bravely spoken out. You reassure the

084parents that the board will be looking into these very serious concerns and that any administrators who are not doing their jobs will be held accountable. >> Jeez. >> Another board member is furious about what you said. Her kids have thrived in the district schools and the named administrators from her perspective do stellar work. She speaks up in support of the administrators and adds, "We have no issues here. Our administrators bend over backward to support all students and I have the utmost confidence that they are doing everything by the book. They can't be expected to control what comes out of students mouths. >> Well, that's a fun one. [laughter] [sighs] >> Hodgepodge of issues. So, did anyone Here's the easy one. Did anybody do anything wrong here? >> Yes. what >> board members speaking up or

085sympathizing with the parent and taking saying that they're going to talk to administrators and they're going to take on this role that's not theirs to take on. >> It's not our job to be looking into these very serious concerns, >> right? [clears throat] >> Or to even even to get into the dialogue. And by the way, putting aside the fact that they spoke and engaged with the public and during public comment, pretend that this was just emails or, you know, face-toface conversation. So, you can take that piece out of it because we already went over the public comment piece of it. >> You also already told us this. I don't think it creates prejuditial. >> Yes. >> If we have to be a judge, so yeah, you're done. >> Yes. What if also I mean

086in general it can get dicey but I mean the chair or the secretary whoever is kind of moderating the meeting like public comment isn't a place to like call out individual teachers or administrators and disparage um or talk neg negatively about like we do have you know civility parameters and we do have in our bylaws how we um don't you know um bring you know make personal comments about individuals. I'm so glad that you mentioned that because I was going to ask, do you have that in your bylaws specifically? Cuz it's interesting. This comes up a lot with boards that do not. And the question is whether you could cut off somebody who is starting to name individual employees and speak badly about them. And the answer is that if you allow people to speak

087positively about employees, but you don't allow them to speak negatively, you are actually engaging in viewpoint discrimination in violation of the First Amendment. So my my advice is always tell people you are not allowed to talk about anybody, period, positive or negative. And hopefully that's if it's in your bylaws, you're ahead of the curve. Um, some districts will, if there's a really sensitive personnel matter that they anticipate will come up, will say at the beginning of the meeting, don't talk about anybody about anything, you know, and that way they can say, all right, you just violated our ground rule, which is a viewpoint neutral ground rule. Um, >> Jess, in this scenario, too, is is is this item an agenda item? >> Well, right. So, no, that's an that's the other problem. >> If you

088start >> can't talk about it because then it's a foyer issue. >> Then it's a foyer issue. >> Exactly. Which is what we talked about before. If you start engaging with the public, >> um, and then the other piece of the scenario we've already talked about, so I don't want to belabor it, but it's just the idea that these allegations are really allegations for your administration to take up. And >> Ruth, you mentioned before that it's your job to make sure that the process is being followed. How do you do that? >> Um well, I think you know we can ask as an agenda item. you can ask you know for report backs um to you know we have these policies in place and we want you know have our director of HR come to

089the table or other things and just report on overall the operations of behind the policies and procedures and whether and how they are making sure that they are followed you know accordingly >> that's a great practice because that is your responsibility what about with these specific with with a specific concern like this one for example. Um you're aware of it, people have talked about it, there's allegations of rampant bullying and racism in the schools and your administration, you know, is dealing with it and then two months later people line up again and say it's not dealt with. >> I guess maybe a more general question like in a corporate board you would have an audit committee and the auditor reports to the board, not the CEO. Is there an audit function here? >> No. Um,

090so in this situation, um, there's no one right answer. I can tell you what I've done with this type of thing. And every everything is different if there's a particular area of oversight that you would need to exercise. And you know, sometimes I wouldn't call it an audit committee, but you may need to have an independent investigation of something. It's rare because you'd be doing independent investigations till the end of the till the end of time if you looked into everything. So what triggers that is a is another thing that you have to think judiciously about. But what I've done in these types of situations is you could have it's it's really what you said a report from the appropriate person and the appropriate position to make that report. Um you know in something like

091this you could have what I've done is I've done an anonymized report on how the administration has handled student discipline matters or you know allegations of bullying. Here was this situation. This is what happened. you have to be careful about furpa so it really has to be deidentified and anonymized um I've also given or it's not just me but this is my experience I have shared with the board what are the um procedures that the administrators use to investigate allegations related to students um I give your administrators trainings on that so you could look at the deck you could ask questions about those trainings and whether or not those process processes are being followed. So that same approach can be applied to pretty much any policy that might come up and that's how you would

092exercise your oversight function and obligation. >> And I think one of the things that's important for a board when something like that is to make sure that the community if they're upset about knows the pathway, >> right? the the chain of command and >> right and how if they have a complaint who that should go to what how to what the expectations should be and follow up or response. So, um, there's an understanding that there's a place for them to be heard, >> right? But we're not the solution, >> right? So, so we would go to So, Kevin, it would be on Kevin, right, >> to find and how this is going to play out and how it's going to and then come back to us and tell us how it worked or didn't work.

093>> Well, or report back to you. on a specific I mean student situations are different from other situations in general because of furpa so you really shouldn't be involved even if somebody comes up to you in the grocery store and says this is what happened to my my child and the administration's handling it even if somebody told you that you still do not have a furpa right to get the outcome to hear the outcome of that and also So that's really um not your role anyway. What are you going to do about it? >> Right? >> I mean Kevin could say, "I'm I'm handling it and it's handled right now." If that same parent comes to you and says, "That wasn't handled. You know, I'm still upset. The administration botched that." Then what? >> We

094still go back to Kevin. >> Yeah. You say, "This is what the parents said. Let Kevin handle it. And at the end of the day, there are different pathways that parents can pursue if they are truly unhappy. There are lots of different avenues, but the avenue is not to come to you and have you address that specific concern >> or solve it. >> Yeah. >> Fortunately for all of you because you're all volunteers and you don't have the capacity to to even solve any of that. You know, Jessica, this isn't specific to this scenario, but we've had plenty of opportunities over the years where, you know, kids or families experience really painful moments. And so, some of the other ways we've tried to get in the surface and really partner is is to listen. And

095so, we've had we had a meeting here two or three years ago. I think um at least three of you were present for it. And we invited, you know, kids and families to come and tell stories. And we all just took the role of listening. And so I think, you know, I am still kind of thinking about Mark's question from a few minutes ago about, you know, you've got multiple roles here and and one of your roles is to listen and, you know, we're all in the position of wanting to help people and make life better and the system better and so on. And so that can be really hard with some of the legal constraints. And so having the opportunity to talk and to um create some other opportunities that are maybe beyond specific

096situations but address larger concerns um can be healthy and I think we we've seen some success as a result of some of the you know the small steps we've taken. >> That was a very powerful meeting. >> It it was I think you know the like more tuned into this specific scenario. The other real challenge in a community like ours is >> everybody knows each other. Everybody knows each other and so you know we're always hamstrung with Furpa when you know incidents are published in Good Morning Wilton and everybody knows the players and you know I sit here and say I really can't talk about it personally identifiable information like that's just really tough >> especially in today's day and age with like photos and pictures like everybody >> you know it's a small community.

097>> Yeah. The other um great thing that you all did recently, maybe three, four years ago, was you invited parents to come and learn about how the district handles bullying and cell phones and technology. And so that education piece I think can go a long way to help parents understand the process. >> Yeah. and updating the handbooks I thought was a really smart because we you know that's one of the you know common criticisms is you know there was an issue and there was no no followup and no justice and so trying to be more specific with >> um responses in the handbooks I think has been helpful >> um scenario three is similar so let's skip on to scenario Imagine if you had to do that in court. [laughter] >> Yeah, this is >>

098trying to make your point. >> All right, [snorts] >> hold on. The evidence is coming. >> Yeah, exactly. I realize this this is going to change the game. >> All right. Um, yeah, it's like almost disappointing when I finally get to visit. [laughter] Recently, three board members have become very concerned about the new library policies that I was just talking about a minute ago, and they wrote a letter to the commissioner of education as members of the Wilton Board of Education to lodge a complaint. Some of the other board members do not agree and like the new policies. These board members heard about this letter and were outraged that the three board members did not let them know about the letter in advance. Did the three board members do anything wrong? >> Yes, >> definitely.

099>> And what was that? >> Taking on something that taking on a a cause without talking to the others. And probably that's an inappropriate thing for a board and to do anyway >> to take on the state. >> I mean, I'm sure they want to. It's tempting. >> I think take according to Cab advocacy is one of our responsibilities, >> right? can if you voted but they they acted outside their capacity that that I just say like I think you you said like the board I just want to distinguish between like to me if they were doing this in their individual capacity and and they didn't say as a member of the board of ed >> and weren't therefore connecting themselves in that way and just like as a citizen of the state of Connecticut

100I can have I'm should be allowed to have a feeling about >> um >> to me the worst thing they did is >> but the three should have conferred with everybody else >> If they're representing the board, it should have come from >> then this comes from the board, not the individual, >> not just the three individuals. >> But we I mean, since I've been on the board, any activity like this is from Kevin on behalf of the school district, right? I mean, we've never as a board written a I mean, we've I guess letters to the editor on stuff that you've written that we've all endorsed, but >> Yes. I'm trying to think there was one I think it was when Debbie was chair and that's I'm going back that there was a letter

101and it might have been about regionalization. I don't know what it was but there was there was one time that we as a board voted to allow the chair to write a letter on behalf of the board. Um, and you either um, and because it gets into like FOYA and drafts and all this stuff, usually the way you do it is you vote that this is on what the letter will say and you give, you know, permission to the chair to express that sentiment in the letter. Um, so you can do it, so you can do it um that way or you can do it where you actually, you know, sit around the table and draft a letter up out in public and that can get unwritty, but you can sit at the table and

102draft a letter all together too. Um yeah it is it is um it is tricky though even when you have like a local issue like I personally as a citizen have given statements you know public comments to the board of selectmen and I've stood up and said I'm here as Ruth Luca resident of you know 19 deacons lane and not in my capacity as a member chair of the board of education. So everything ROF said, [laughter] go with that. That's exactly right. You hit all the points I wanted to hit. Number one, um you can't speak on behalf of the board or write on behalf of the board without having been delegated with that authority. Number two, it's really hard to um even if you're delegated with that authority or even if the board decides

103to put out something in writing, it's hard to draft something while together while still complying with FOYA. your options are to sit around and draft collectively or to delegate responsibility to one person to do the draft. Um that that often comes as a surprise to new board members. I guess you've served on it sounds like you've served on other boards, so you're familiar with the FOYA rules, but brand new board members are always astonished that you can't circulate drafts by email and you know provide comments. you just you can't because of the foyer rule because if you email them around it becomes >> um a meeting an illegal meeting. So the best way to do it is really to delegate as you said responsibility to usually the chair to express the sentiment. Um, the other

104thing that I thought was a really good point and a best practice is if you're absolutely free to speak out as a citizen, a resident of Wilton, but it is a good idea to clarify before you do so. I am speaking in my personal individual capacity. I am not here as a member of the Wilton Board of Education. Um, that's especially important if anybody serves on other town committees or, you know, PTA or anything like that. Um, I've been asked, "Can I still do that?" And I say, "Sure." Just make sure that people understand you're not there as a representative of the board. You're there as yourself. Um, you can wear different hats at different times. Um, and of course, you know, if you're serving in that capacity, it's not that you have to tune

105out what you hear. That can be part of what informs your decision-making at the board table. But there's a difference between that and you going somewhere and making representations as a board member or on behalf of the board. So that's the point of scenario four. I I have seen I'm sorry can the the chairman can write a letter as long as we agree that the chairman can write the letter. >> Yes. And so thank you. Bullet bullet three is and this is where I say that um as wonderful as Ruth is she has no special powers. You know, she has the same powers and authority as every other board member, except she does have specific responsibilities to serve as the chief chief spokesperson for the board. Um, which comes out in different ways, to do

106anything that you authorize her to do. Um, to set the agenda, working with Kevin, there's specific responsibility she has, but she could not say, you know what, I think we should I think we should write to the the the um legislature and complain about the library policy. So, I'm just going to go and do that. That's not what it means to be a spokesperson. A spokesperson means that you're the one who conveys the board's sentiments as expressed by the board through a vote. [clears throat] >> Yeah. Um, the other thing >> Oh, sorry. It's a new thing cuz you talked about the like if the board ever did want to write anything like and coming back to the email rules like I could also imagine a scenario I guess where you'd ask somebody sort of

107in one meeting hey we want to we want to create a a letter about this could you bring a draft to the next meeting and presumably the one way communication could happen where in advance of the meeting just like other board materials we get is like hey everybody this is on the agenda we're going to edit this together here's the draft in advance like that presumably is legal >> it is absolutely legal I almost it's almost never done because what's the point of a draft if you're editing it in public >> cuz then people get to see >> your hand >> what was taken out or >> Yes. You know >> cuz if you're public say if you're going to do the thing in public but you can share it in advance if you want

108>> make it more efficiently. >> Yes. But you don't but you can't comment about it back and forth. It just becomes materials in advance. Yes. >> Yeah. I I am not aware of any time that any board has ever drafted something in public. >> Ask just for fun. >> No, because if you're putting out if you're working on a public statement, I think it almost undermines the efficacy of the statement to show how the statement was drafted. Um, so the other way to do it is well, I'll I'll leave it at that. That's more of a privilege conversation that we can have privately. Um, the other thing I did want to say about this is sometimes I will, this is kind of a bad badly behaving board member move. I will see people um, board

109members publish things in the local paper or the blog and they'll sign their name and then they'll say Wilton Board of Education. Not any of you. I'm just we're here in Wilton. But that is almost um a tacit representation that you're writing on behalf of the Wilton Board of Education. So just I recommend that you not do that. >> Um I've seen board members get upset with other board members for doing something like that like during campaign season for example. Um so moving on um conflicts of interest. So this is an interesting one and this may this may come up um what is considered to be a conflict of interest? So I mean if you if it directly affects you or your ch your child >> that would be a conflict of interest. if it

110directly affects, you know, Mark's wife works in the system. So, if it directly affected her contract or her reunaration or a policy that directly has to do with her area of of of work, >> that would be um a conflict of interest. um if it affects um a contract let's say that maybe your family can >> benefit from that would be >> conflict. So almost everything that you're mentioning has some sort of financial component which is right that's really what conflict of interest is about and it does come up when we talk about board members who have um you know a spouse who's employed by the district. What can you be part of? What can you not be part of? That's maybe a conversation that we have offline, >> but a lot of things may

111indirectly affect your spouse and that I would say is not a conflict of interest. It's only when it could directly affect your family or your spouse that it could become a conflict of interest. And um I've had these conversations separately with others, but you um the onus is on you to recuse yourself. your fellow board members could also point it out, but really there's nobody who is going to enforce that other than yourself except if you know, I don't mean you, but yourselves. Um, and the only um recourse that you would have is fortunately nobody can be removed from their position as a board of education member, but the recourse is anybody know what your recourse is for somebody a board member who has done something inappropriate? center table. Center. Yeah, it's centered. >> Um,

112so that's the point about conflict of interest. The other thing I'd like to say about conflict of interest is on the flip side of it, I would caution you not to be too liberal in determining what's a conflict of interest and what isn't. Because at the end of the day, you were elected to serve in your role and to make decisions along with your your other board members. And if you're recusing yourself left and right, then you're not actually fulfilling your fiduciary obligation to participate as a board member. So it could go the other way as well. And I always just I mean I have kids in the school so sometimes it's like hard you know when you're at the table and talk about a reading program and you know your kid is in the

113classroom during that reading program and I do try to be careful not all the time successfully about bringing personal into into the conversation at the at the at the table. I mean, we're a small community and people know and you know, sometimes it's appropriate, but I do, you know, think about that. >> So, I'm I'm so glad you said that, too, because um here's what I'll say about that. The many of you have kids in the system, um spouse in the system, of course you do. And and of course, everything you do is going to affect your children because they're students in the school district. I would go as far as to say that none of what you do almost probably or almost none of what you do is a conflict of interest. To your

114point, Ruth, I think it it is a good practice not to talk about your personal experiences when you're debating. You can be informed by them for sure. You have to be necessarily. You are who you are. >> You know what your child is experiencing. You know what you've experienced. You know what your spouse has experienced. But a good practice sitting around the board table is you know that can be informing your contributions to the discussion but I wouldn't start to talk about those personal experiences. >> I just want to clarify that my children are in high school so I have no idea what they experience. [laughter] >> Whatever you ask it's like nothing. >> There you go. Didn't start in middle school for you. [laughter] Um, all right. Let's see if I can I'm just

115going to go to whatever slide this thing wants me to go to. Committees. So, um, what is I'm giving it away by going to this slide, but you have how many committees here? >> So, we have two. We have policy and we have business operations. Um we used to have the teaching and learning and we took that out of committee and made it a committee of the whole and bring those um >> so the board is essentially the committee and you have three people I'm guessing >> two two people on each committee >> two on each committee. >> All right so committees true or false committees are public agencies subject to all the rules of foyer that the full board is subject to >> true. So true or false, the two people on the committee

116um can speak to each other privately about substantive committee issues. >> False. >> Yeah. So Cab actually recommends that I mean you're a small board um but Cab recommends that you have no few I think no fewer than four people on a committee because of this quorum issue. But in any event, um, committees are public agencies. Those two people can't talk to each other or email each other about substantive work. They have to do their work in public. And the purpose of the committees is to maximize the efficiency of the work of the board. Can committees do um, generally the work in committees is is brought to the board for approval. Right? So committees can't really take action unless they're authorized to do so by the board. not so much applicable, not such an issue

117for you all because you have few committees with few people on them. >> Yeah. And none of our committees are authorized to make deci to um make decisions or or voting um bodies. >> Yeah. >> What about So the business operations committee is a combination committee between ourselves and the board of finance. >> It's not that it's a board of ed comm. >> We just board of finance representation. >> So if we decided to disband that committee that's on >> we would do that on that's on us. Okay. Um, well, do you want to talk about policies? Would that be helpful? Or is um how they're drafted? We talked a little bit about it at the beginning, so we can move on. Um, so just a quick refresher, and Mark, maybe this is new for

118you. Um meetings are pretty much anything when you can when a quorum of the board convenes either electronically or um in person. But there are a few exceptions to that under FOYA. One of them is a meeting of a personnel search committee for an executive level candidate search and the board can appoint the entire board as that committee. So any meetings that you would have to search for for example um a principal or an assistant superintendent um those meetings those meetings are not meetings under FOYA um any chance or social meeting it's hard to I don't know if you do that many boards don't because they're afraid of being accused of conducting board business strate oh oh this we actually for I forgot to mention that this is another key role of the board collective

119bargaining Okay. So, we just had teacher negotiations. Feels like we just had them. >> We did those [laughter] >> or it feels like we had them a long time, >> I should say. Um, so collective bargaining is something that you all or a group of you all participate in. Those meetings are not considered meetings. They're considered non-me for the purpose of strategy and negotiations with respect to collective bargaining. um caucus, a caucus of members of a single political party is not considered a meeting. But one question I posed to myself when I presented at the Freedom of Information Commission's annual conference in the fall, Tom Mooney and I, my my partner and I, what about if you have a email exchange among members of the same political party >> with the board extension? >> Yeah.

120or like personal? >> No, just an email. Um, you know, you you have an email exchange. >> Is that a caucus? >> What's the difference? >> It's a caucus. You can email. [clears throat] >> Are those emails subject to FOYA? >> No, >> they are. They are. >> They are. It's not a private meeting, >> but they are a public record. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Yeah. Okay, just FYI. Um, and communications limited to notice of meetings of a public agency and their agendas. Um, I do want to say I think the next slide is um I'm not going to go through the specific rules of um meeting postings, but executive session. So, um, there are specific reasons under FOYA to go into executive session and I've listed them here,

121personnel matters, but they it can't just be general personnel matters like we want to cut this number of people. I won't say identify any group because I know we're in public and they're you know um it has to be about a specific person um or specific people and those people or person have to be given notice and the opportunity to have that discussion held in public and the agenda has to identify the person by name. So it's a very kind of limited exception. Why would you do this? Um, [clears throat] it would be to, and you may not have to identify them by name. You could identify them by title, but it could be to talk about um a separation agreement after it's occurred. You want kind of a breakdown of what happened and why,

122right? Then you can talk about that person, pending claims and litigation, security and real estate. And then confidential documents is the catchall. So if you're talking about that's why expulsion hearings can be an executive session because you're talking about confidential student records. That's why attorney client privileged um discussions can be an executive session. >> [clears throat] >> Interestingly, if you ever invite me into executive session, technically I have to give you a written document. And I do give you a written document because it's the conversation is privileged to executive session only based upon that privileged document, not based upon my talking to you. Um, the key thing about executive session, and you're all great, you know, law-abiding board members, is I I do want to emphasize that those discussions are confidential. Um, it's really important

123that you not share the content of those discussions with anybody outside of executive session. >> And and you also can do um Kevin's review in executive session. >> Yes. That's a person considered. >> So that's considered personal personal. >> Yep. Yeah. >> Um, interestingly, if you're ever doing a self-re >> that if you're reviewing the full board and your board the board's accomp, you know, success in terms of accomplishing your goals, that has to be in public. The only way that you could privilege that board self-review to executive session is if you in review individual board members. So you would actually have to notice it as a review of individual board member and name each of you >> and you would each have the have to be given the opportunity to have that discussion be

124held in public. >> Well just I I mean this board has never done that but you know if they wanted to evaluate colle together each of their own kind of personal performance and they named that in an executive session to discuss the performance of that that's permissible. It is. It is. And boards do do that. >> Yep. >> Um they Yes. So that that was >> So you could do it like put everybody's name for one executive session all at once. >> Yes. >> It doesn't have to be like serial or No, it could be like all at once. >> Yeah. Um the oh the other thing I wanted to say is there was a foye decision a couple years ago that was very unfortunate um and it was so normally prior to this FOYA

125decision boards would just automatically include the superintendent in executive sessions. This FOYA decision said you can only because you have the ability to invite people into executive sessions. However, they can only be invited in if they are there to provide information or testimony about the issue that you're discussing. So, if you invite Kevin into your executive sessions, make sure that he's there for a specific purpose and that he speaks because this FOYA decision was about that very issue. The superintendent was automatically included and really didn't say anything. He was just there. And um the Freedom of Information Commission found that to be a violation of FOYA. >> So wait, so do I need to invite Kevin into every executive session? >> Yes. Cuz we don't currently have that practice. >> I usually >> for a

126specific reason. So from now on when we do the agendas for executive session inviting I put the reason for the executive session >> and the reason and inviting Kevin Smith to for purposes of this discussion. >> Yeah. I mean you don't have to put that on the the agenda but when you vote to go into executive session you would say we're inviting Dr. Smith to provide us with information about the school security plans. >> Okay. Yeah. >> All right. So then I Okay, >> because I don't have a a practice of inviting >> Hitman. Yeah, this is the advanced board training course. These [laughter] are all the little quirky things that >> Okay. No, so we should change our our practice on >> that was a foyer decision from a couple years ago. So the

127the fix if you want to write as members of the Wilton Board of Education to the general assembly, the fix for this is to pass a law saying that Kevin is a ex officio member board. Okay. >> Yeah. >> If you were doing an executive session with more than one agenda item, and [clears throat] I know that you can't like have an executive session meeting, you have to have executive session agendas and a person is providing information on one of those items, but not the other. >> They have to leave, >> are they? Okay. They're not They're not grandfathered in. >> No, [clears throat] they have to leave. >> Um, all right. So, that's >> No. >> And you all know you can't vote in executive session. The other little quirky rule of executive sessions,

128and I see this all the time, you can't even vote to exit executive session. You just exit. You come out. So, I always kind of smile when I see boards when I'm in an executive session and I have see boards move to, you know, exit to adjourn executive session because you just leave. Um, so a couple of points about keeping us on time, but I also feel free to jump in if there's something you want me to pivot to. What I was going to talk about is records, and I was going to scare you a little bit about records for a minute. >> Um, so FOYA, we talked a lot about the meetings requirements of FO of FOYA. There's also a records component of FOYA and this is the component that means that all of

129the records maintained by the school district and its employees and board of education members are subject to public disclosure under FOYA except if an exemption applies. So that means that even if you are um talking about board business on your personal cell phone via text message, that's a public document. If you're using your personal email and talking about board business, that's a public document. My advice, which is easier said than done, is is don't I mean, it's easy to not use your board your personal email. Use your Wilton public schools email. It's harder, I think, for most people to avoid using text to communicate about board business. Um, so, but I suggest you do it. uh because I've seen too many board members fall into the issue. So what people will do is they will

130they may make a foyer request for any record about X and they will specific whether or not they specifically mention text messages, those are still required to be reviewed and collected. Um nobody's going to confiscate your phone, but you'll get an email from Lucille saying please forward anything you have or screenshot anything you have on this particular topic. If you have it and if it wasn't automatically deleted because you automatically delete your text messages every 30 days, for example, you have to provide it. If it's not there, you don't have to provide it. But by the way, there are municipal records retention laws that govern how long particular records have to be retained. Generally speaking, text messages are considered transient records that don't have a particular retention requirement except if you're under a legal hold

131because there is a litigation and you've been told to preserve records. I don't think we have many if any legal holds right now in Wilton. [clears throat] But if you do get one, you know, you'll have to think about things like text messages. So, long story short, text messages um just be careful. Um, because of that, you're also not exempt from the meeting rules via text. So, make sure you're not text messaging a quorum of your fellow board members unless it's a caucus. Um, and um that's pretty much my my PSA on texts and emails. if we could just for a minute because there's always been confusion about like whether individual board members can pick up the phone and call each other or talk to each other or have a conversation and I think that

132sometimes um there's been you know advice given on the town side that's different from what we've always practiced or known. So, if we can just clarify um that I think it would be important because I think that it's my understanding that there's no nothing that says I can't pick up the phone and call Lori and you know have a conversation with her. That's 100% right. You can absolutely call individual people. What you can't do is call Lori and say, "Lori, let's make sure this cell phone ban passes, right? >> Pass it on." >> You can serial load or [laughter] anything. You know, that's that's the challenge. Um, >> would anybody ever know if you did that? >> No. Except if they make a foyer complaint and then you have to testify under oath about who

133said what to whom >> and prove a negative and you know, but but yes, you absolutely can pick up the phone and call each other to have a conversation. Also, as I said, now I think this is the third time, caucuses are also fine. So it could be more than one person if you're members of the same political party, >> right? But there's nothing that prevents, you know, part whether you're in the same party or not that Yeah. There's nothing that prevents individual board members from, you know, having a conversation. >> Correct. >> Yes. Um there's some and then there's some exemptions from disclosure. I don't know that we need to um Oh, this is this is scenario six. So, we can skip scenario six. Um, so I want to maybe end with this one

134which is about in communications and information sharing. Some board members are more engaged than others and they ask the superintendent and other administrators, cabinet members, principles for a lot of information. Not all of these requests or the information provided in response to them make their way to every board member. In addition, the superintendent is receiving complaints from some principles that they're spending all their time creating paperwork for and meeting with board members and don't have time to deal with urgent matters at their schools. At last night's board meeting, one board member stood up and pounded her fist when she saw another board member reviewing a budget spreadsheet that she had never received. >> That's fun. [laughter] What a great board. [gasps] >> So this is really where I help you all. I facilitate a conversation

135among all of you and Kevin about what is your protocol. What's your best practice or preferred practice with respect to information requests and information sharing. I will say there is one kind of hard and fast rule which is this that board members should not be approaching principles um or really anybody other than Kevin um and asking for information unless somehow they've been specifically authorized to do that. But beyond that in terms of your practice with Kevin and Kevin's practice with you that's really my view is if it's not broken don't fix it. So what what has been working and Mark this might help you and as you you know prepare to engage and make information requests. >> So Mark will find this out as we move to budget. We do have a more of a

136more formal process for information um gathering under budget because we do want to make sure that everybody asks questions and that everybody sees the questions that are being asked and has um sees the answers. So during budget we have um we ask that all questions get um sent either to me or to Kevin and then we have a question docu we have a document that gets fed all the questions and gets all the answers and then that's not a live document but the PDF of that document is shared pre per periodically and it's also shared at the table and it becomes part of our meeting um materials. We also have a question document that's not board that's not budget related. So, um there are times that board members have questions that um would be interesting

137for other board members to know and I think it's important for everybody to all have the same information. So, um if you have questions like um about a policy, about how something works, about um how does a parent, you know, I got a question from a parent about how they're supposed to respond to this request or anything like that. Um we ask that they come to me or they can go directly to Kevin, they get put on the question sheet. the question sheet uh if there's new if there's new items for it gets um sent through the consent agenda so it becomes public and um all board members have becomes documented and I think it's also a way for the public to feel like board members aren't rubber stamps that there's a conduit for board

138members to get questions answered that don't rise to table agenda items or table discussions >> that sounds great now what about if it's not just a question but it's a I want to um see a breakdown of all discipline imposed from 1995 to 2025 and I want it disagregated by subgroup >> individual board member you know if that came to me I would go and say is this something the whole board needs to see is there an agenda item and you know there is a there is a process for requesting agenda items >> okay yeah so something large like that it is like an agenda component and we all need to be cognizant of everybody's time and resources. Yeah, I will say you know there are kind of two other pieces here too because I

139think you know this this board also um should operate informally as as necessary and so sometimes people will have a question and I'm trying to think of a recent example that it would be the answer would be interesting to the whole board and so it'll be a question that might come to me and I'll respond and include you know this question came from so- and so and you know here's here's the answer. I think that's a good idea for everything and it sounds like you have that with your question sheet and with that practice. Um, I mean not necessarily because there might be >> right I think like so hey how do I get my badge like that's right >> you know six people I need to know you know get that you know reply

140all >> yeah I actually the other night I was with a board new board member and they said well what about if it's just I need background material or background information about something because I'm new but then we went down the rabbit hole of well is it background information because you're new or is it background information because you're trying to make a decision about the budget and you want the history of X. >> Yeah. You know, Jessica, I have a personal philosophy. I think, you know, I have several I have a lot of personal philosophies that's irrelevant. It It's hard, I think, for board members to do their job because it's not a job that's well understood. And so, you know, we could forever fight over the line between policy and governance and operations, and

141some boards do that. Um, I think it's really important, and this is my personal philosophy, that board members know as much as they want to and are capable. And so, I've had a long-standing practice of inviting board members in um, to walk alongside school administrators and teachers when we're doing learning walks. If we have professional um learning experiences that people are interesting, if we're investigating, you know, a curricular issue and they want to participate, um I really work hard to enable that and that can create um you know, knowledge and equality if not everybody's able to do that. Um, but it's a practice, you know, that I've maintained in this district for all the years I've been here and it's it's mostly been effective and I think, you know, members have appreciated those opportunities and,

142you know, I don't know that that's routine in every community, but it, you know, seems to work here. I mean I think the one thing that you know out of respect for everybody's time and just you know knowing if there if there is a school that you want to go into or a principal you want to talk to whatever just to go through through Kevin [snorts] and then that way um you [clears throat] know and usually Kevin will just say oh we'll just reach out if it's military reach out to Kathy or whatever but just so he's aware of board's contact and connection with with others. So >> yeah, and if I get feedback from my staff that it's too much. We just we work it out. Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. I would say in

143general, I always advise I I completely agree with that that that go through Kevin because um all your principles are wonderful, but some in some districts pr principles can feel intimidated by being approached by a board member who says, I want to just I want to visit your school. Um so I think that's a great great practice. So I want to be respectful of everybody's time. It's 9:00. Um, if anybody has more questions, I'm happy to answer them. I'm here. Um, but if not, we could probably spend four more hours, but uh, we'll save it for next year. >> Was it Is there any topic or question that anybody want? >> It's like a policy type question on policies that come down from the state. >> Yes. How do we know that we have every

144policy that we're supposed to have that's come down from the legislature? >> Great question. >> So, you're a model policy subscriber, right? So, thank you for that. I love this question because um policies are are my thing. Um, [laughter] so my firm Shipman, we offer a model policy service that you subscribe to and we monitor every I was going to say every year, but it's really like every day. We monitor what you're supposed to be doing, what the policies that are required are. And so every year we do a major model policy update based upon what the legisl the general assembly has done. We update all of our model policies and then we send them out in a big batch. We just sent out our big batch a few weeks, maybe a month ago. Um,

145and that's how you know. Now, I think you also have cave policies and you have >> I'm a lunatic about it, so I crosswalk cave and shipments. And it might surprise you to know they don't always match. >> Um, and that could be a timing thing, but um, >> you know, the other step that we we take too, we we just did it this summer is we audit our policy manual. We did it, you know, six years ago. And so I think it's um probably the bigger challenge is timing, right? because these things get adopted and we don't always immediately implement, right? So, we're working on it. We're, you know, waiting for language or tinkering with language. >> Yeah. And and everybody faces that challenge and it's just, you know, it policy might be required

146effective September 1 and you can't possibly do it because you you know that they passed it August 30th. Um I I should also mention that policies are can also be man mandated by federal law like for example title nine non-discrimination title six so it's the states as well as federal law and I also do want to say that cape as I said has a model policy service so I assume they do the same thing every year >> quarterly >> yeah I think that's right [laughter] >> good question >> anybody for regulations do it >> the regulations get written by Kevin and we don't we never we don't vote on regulations >> you don't vote on regulations although I'd have to check your bylaws I don't think >> typically no and so I think um yeah

147generally you know most policies that are um mandated by law we either have um a shipment model um or um CAB has a model for every policy um both required and recommended with an accompanying regulation. And so you know we often get those two bodies and then they come the regulations when there is regulation will come you know as a as a read alongside and you have voted on the regulations as you know kind of part of the policy package. Um, not in every case. Um, some policies don't have regulations. Um, some policies are regulations. >> Sorry. Would you ever change the regulation without changing the policy? >> Um, pro. Yeah, probably. I'd have to think of some examples. Um, but I I wouldn't do it in my office by myself. Um, you know, I

148mean, generally it's a matter of practice. All of that works through the policy committee and then comes to the board. Um, I'd have to think about like regulation changes. >> Well, if there could be like a how you decide to get information, you know, like if we say in a policy it's for you to monitor something, you might and you have a regulation about how you gather that information that may change or [clears throat] but it's very I don't know. I mean, I think that like the regulations are an expression of the policy. So like when policies come to us and we look at the regulations, we want to make sure that the regulations in general map what we're trying to achieve through our policy. But like there's more than one way to to achieve

149that and that's why it's like left to Kevin to figure out the best way to go ahead and implement something. >> Yeah. I can give you an example of where it's only happened once where a superintendent has had to administratively change a regulation on the fly. It had to do with a timeline and there was a bit of a issue where the regulation specified the timeline and the superintendent administratively modified that because by nec for by necessity because of what we were dealing with. And so the one of the benefits of having a regulation is that if that were part of the policy then we wouldn't have been able to wave that in a timely manner because you can't change policies overnight. You can change regulations overnight. But it's rare and generally you know as

150Kevin said he would inform you and get your okay before making any changes. And he does you don't write regulations because you said they come with the cape policy or they come with our policy. >> Yeah. I mean there's there's some that we we may modify, you know, meaningfully because the model doesn't match the way we work or we'll embellish or whatever, >> right? >> But so we do, you know, we do edit as necessary, >> right? >> But again, that's goes through, you know, I mean, I think you probably >> Thanks. >> Any other questions? >> Thank you. Thank you so much, Sarah. Hope to see you all. >> Good reminders. >> Um, comments from the public. >> Yeah, let's go check. >> Thank you. >> Before you go, I have a specific library

151policy question. >> Okay. was our only attendees. >> So, I'm hearing no comments from the public. Um, future business items. Um, you know that there was um an information items. The enrollment for December 2025 was posted with our meeting materials. Um we will meet again in the new year for on January 8th will also be the superintendent's budget presentation and then we roll into budget workshops on um Thursday January 15th, January 22nd and the 29th and those just please note start at 6:00 and not at 7:00. Uh meeting adjourned at