001It says we're on here. Try this again. Okay. So, um I would like to call the town of Winchester Charter Revision Commission meeting to order. On today, Tuesday, June 2nd, 2026, uh we will be starting with a public hearing on the charter revisions that this commission will be moving forward. But before we do that, I would like to start with a call to order. If you could start, Mark, please. >> Mark Lampiniano, >> Holly Cassidy, >> Sandre Stubar, >> Paul Marino, >> Candy Perez, >> Cheryl Hef, and McGlin, >> Bill Hudach. Now, >> please join us for a pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay. So
002on the agenda tonight for the public that is here please note there are uh one public one board of selectman and two registars here please um for the public hearing we I'm going to go to we have four changes that we've been proposed by the charter commission and you can see them up on the board the budget timelines the town clerk from elected to professional appointment a registar's term to four years and prohibiting servicing serving on more than one major board or commission. I'm going to go through kind of a the rough report, the draft report that we have uh for people here in our audience as well as people are at home. This board after we finish with the public hearing portion of it uh will continue to look at what we need to
003put into the report, anything that we need to update etc. or change. So basically we were impanled on February 17, 2026 by the board of selectmen. Um they asked us to look at four charges. Uh we adopted the approach based on the recommendations of the board. Uh but also we were looking at um things that were presented to us from others as well. So we're recommending the following four modifications that I just indicated a minute ago. Town clerk transition board and commission concurrent service registars election cycle and budget timeline adjustments. Uh this is our second public hearing. Our first public hearing was held on March 12th. Commission meetings have been held February 25th, March 16th, April 6 and 28, May 4 and 12, and now this one tonight. But in between these meetings, everybody on
004the commission has done individual work looking at each of these charges and other information. So the basically I'll just do the four charges real quick. Um I think everybody here knows what they are uh but just in case somebody's watching might want to know. So [clears throat] it was brought up to transition from a elected town clerk to a professionally appointed uh position. Um that was looked at for statewide trends and we know that 75 out of 169 Connecticut municipalities use the appointed model. Uh when you look at most of the work that the town clerk's responsibilities are, 95% of it is technical and statemandated. Includes land records, vital statistics, and complex election laws. One of the reasons to make the change is because state certification is lengthy and costly and it is also if
005you went two years with one town clerk, they could be um not town clerk after the next election and you would have what they call churning. So the qualifications and oversight would be through the town manager's office. Um and the town manager uh would be making the uh job description etc. and would be overseeing the position. We don't believe there's an expenditure above and beyond what we currently have. Uh because we would say that the town clerk that's elected would go based on most of the fundamental items that's already in the charter which means that the town clerk is the secretary to the board of selectment. The town clerk helps with the elections. Town clerk is at different meetings at night with the board of selectmen. Those would continue. Uh where we might have further
006conversation is what to do um if the current town clerk wanted to stay another five or six months or how that change over would happen because we are recommending that this change in the charter would become official um and the results of election day in 2027. Not right now, but 2027 is when the current town clerk's elected term ends. and we would make that the effective day of this ordinance. If you've been watching anything about South Windsor last night, South Windsor when they did their charter change, they weren't clear with when the charter change takes effect. So that's why we want to be clear with that. So that's with the town clerk's position. I also brought in here just so everybody sees that somewhere local is what New Hartford did and they did an appointment
007of a town clerk. Um, and they did it actually at a town meeting, an in-person town meeting, uh, back in, uh, 2022. It started. Our next one is, you've heard this a lot. Um, we've talked about concurrent service on major boards. We have defined major boards as planning and zoning, uh, zoning, board of appeals, board of education, inland, wetlands, and water course commission, board of assessment appeals, and water and sewer commission. Most of these commissions are commissions that are also uh by state statute. Um they are some of the more uh um commissions in town that operate on some of our our developments on water and sewer for instance is a imposes water t water user fees and sewer user fees. So, we defined those as the major boards. And basically what we're saying in
008this and what was requested is that you can't serve on more than one of these six boards at the same time. So, if you're appointed to inland wetlands, you can't go serve on uh planning and zoning. Water and sewer, you can't serve on zoning board of appeals, etc. And then we go through some of the information about that [clears throat] was was learned from it. And then we have some charter sections that may be affected by this. And speaking of charter sections, after we get through with this and after it goes to the board of selectment and if it moves further on, it will go to our town attorney to make sure that we have correct legal language within the actual changes that will take place. So, while we've put information in here, we know
009that the town attorney uh will do his legal uh language and update everything as as needed. Our third change is the registar of voters and this one came from the registar of voters. It did not come from the board of selectmen. So it came through the process and that's why the process exists so that things can come come through. It doesn't have to be just through the board and that's what happens when you uh you know and panel a charter revision commission. Basically the request is from a two-year term to a four-year term. And when you look at the things that happen with the registars and the certifications they need, it makes sense in the statewide content context. 88 towns utilize a four-year term. Uh 81 towns maintain a two-year term. When you look at
010Lichfield County benchmarks, 19 out of 26 towns in Litfield County have adopted four-year terms. Uh we're we're one of the only remaining seven of them in the county with Colbert and Torington that operates on a two-year cycle. Uh let's see. Um so underneath regist our certification and training requirements, you could see that all of the things that they have to do. Uh and in 2015, they had become state certified. It's two years to complete the coursework. The core curriculum ensures statewide consistency in election law, voter registry management, and audit procedures. The town of Winchester invests $1,600 per registar for their certification fee, plus the mileage that takes them to wherever it is that they go and take these courses, and they get paid when they're there. Um each year they must complete eight hours of
011training, um some monthly online meetings, county level meetings, and multi-day conferences. So again, just like the town clerk's position, if everything went on a two-year, everything's on a two-year cycle, and if they tried to go for election again and they lost, then it would be a two-year churn. And by time to get certified is two years. So the new person coming in would spend the next two years getting certified. Another cost of $1,600 mileage, hourly cost, etc. So we said that this four-year term would start with the registars's election cycle in 2028 with the start of the position in January 2029 because right now it's happening uh for the um registars right now. They get elected this November and they start in January. Uh we also have the charter sections in here that we looked
012at. This next one is probably the one that is taking us the longest and will take us the longest is we are trying to modernize and streamline the annual budget timeline and process. So that was the goal is to try to make the process shorter and also make it so that there's as much input as there was before. And there's also the desire in case the budget were to fail at the first referendum to shorten that second referendum time to be able to get a town budget by July 1st. So we went through a lot of things. We looked at the board of education benefit um and how they having an extra week would be probably helpful from them. And Sandre was on the board of ed and she brought that insight to us which
013was really good. Taxpayer engagement. We thought that if it was a more simplified process that maybe more people might engage because it was a shorter window of time, you know, like an attention span where instead of saying, "Oh, I got enough time to look at it." Maybe by compressing it a little bit, we might get people to engage more. Um, for the board of selectmen, it also creates a shorter, more intensive decision making for for the board of selectmen. Um, so that you get right down to it after you after you look at things. And then it also has, as I talked about, the referendum failure mitigation by making the turnaround buffer shorter for the in case one fails. The legal publishing costs remain the same on the financial side. Uh it mostly the true
014value lies in the functioning of physical abilities of the town in case the first budget fails and in in terms of turning it around. So the so the our accountants and our town manager and the and the departments can actually function without wondering after July 1, what am I going to have? Uh so the effective uh date of this would be the first full budget preparation cycle final passage of this charter amendment which will be uh next spring of 27. So basically our summary is um right now the budget documents from the board of ed and all departments and the budget due to the board of selectment is March 15th. We are proposing that to move to March 22nd. So instead of March 15th, it would be March 22nd that the town manager has to
015get the budget to the board of selectmen. This gives the um board of education a little more time to get whatever they need to get to the town manager and it gives the town manager a little bit more time that that he may need to look at state adjustments or insurance adjustments or eversource adjustments etc. So then we thought the the board of selectment approved budget is supposed to post 15 calendar days. That's why we always go that third week in April. We're proposing that the approved budget be posted seven calendar days because it's going to be on our website. It's on our website. Everybody can see it immediately. It doesn't it's not like somebody in the olden days had to go to the newspaper and then had to come into town hall and get
016a copy. right now. As soon as the board board of selectmen approves it, it gets posted online uh the very next day and everybody can see it. The annual town meeting used to be the second meeting, second Monday in May. We're now proposing it go back to the annual first Monday in May. We've done that in the past. um and we moved to the second meeting, but to streamline it, we're thinking let's go to the first Monday because what we're trying to do is shorten up the calendar to also try to eliminate Memorial Day as part of the equation for our um >> yeah, for that's it for the the budget vote, the referendum. One of the small little things that are in there um is right now it talks about a machine ballot for
017the referendum. We have added machine ballot of paper ballot machine ballot I should say or or paper ballot if approved by the board of selectments. So it would have to be approved by the board of selectment to do a paper ballot and that would be there in case of emergencies or in case of a small referendum or whatever comes before the board of selectment to decide. We the referendum currently is 14 to 21 days following the annual budget meeting. We're moving that to seven to not more than 14 days following the annual budget meeting. Again, trying to shorten it up. Uh you go to the annual budget meeting, everybody kind of knows it's already happening. The annual budget meeting, uh unless they can make a change to decrease the line item will be the same
018budget that the town manager and the town clerk has put on the website already. Um if there was a small change, that would be the only change that happened. They would put it on the next day. everybody could see that change. So, we feel that moving to seven to not more than 14 days allows us to get it allows the referendum to get to the first we believe the first Saturday or the following week. Uh, whatever the town meeting and the selectmen decide is the best to move it as as quickly as as we can. This next item here, I'm going to move to other language, but basically if the budget's not adopted at referendum, uh the meeting, the town budget meeting shall be rescheduled no less than 14, no more than 21 days from
019the date of the referendum. We're moving that up and we have to do a little bit more work on this. Uh we want it to occur the next referendum to occur within 14 days of the failure of the referendum before that which would mean the board of selectment is going to have basically about 3 to five days to present a new budget to schedule annual town meeting and then the annual town meeting will have to set a fail set a referendum date we believe within seven days of the town meeting. This next section is in the current online under the town charter. Um, I copied it directly out of that. So, this is actual language out of the charter. You can see where it's in red. I have changed what we used to do based
020on what's in the actual online charter. The first Monday in May, the seven days of notice. Um, uh, the rest of it for a while is okay. Departmental estimates instead of the 15th and 22nd. 22nd. Hopefully, I didn't miss any. The board of selectmen is another change that we're going to have and is that instead of having two public hearings, we want to have one public hearing. That's a joint meeting between the board of selectment and board of education. The rationale around that was that the board of education is already holding multiple multiple presentations of their budget, right? Multiple multiple presentations of their budget. A lot of people go. So, by the time we get to the public hearing, the board of ed, it's kind of redundant. Um, and then the board of selectmen has
021been having their their meeting about a week and a half, two weeks later, and they go over the same thing again. And the board of education has been there before. So we're saying that go to one public hearing but in addition to the one public hearing we're saying that any board of selectman meeting that has has a decision making about the budget and discussion about the budget must include public comment. If you remember this year there was a board of selectment meeting where they talked about the budget and there was no public comment for it. So, one public hearing, but but additional public comment time during discussions of the budget items by the board of selectmen. So, it balances out for the taxpayer to be able to have enough input during during that time. Uh,
022this we talked about is the selectman vote to approve a paper ballot blah blah. And then this next red line is the three days on a after a failed one with within 14 days, three days for the board of selectment to meet the next town budget meeting and then the referendum and then at the end of this. So those were the four charges we're sending forward or we would like to send forward. Reports of on the items suggested but not move forward is the four-year term for the board of selectmen. Uh the commission did not move that one forward. The commission also heard some other uh requests. Uh IWWC uh staff suggested it goes from 9 to 7. We sent that back to the commission so that they could discuss it with staff. Moving the
023Gilbert line item to the town side of the budget. This was ruled not consistent with law by attorney Ke Nelligan. Cleaning up the language on qualifications for commissions in the word elector. This was deemed needing more consideration and language. Uh, Bill does want to talk about that again tonight. The fire department consolidation. Uh, the fire department requested through the town manager a proposal to consolidate all of the fire departments etc etc under leader under one leadership tier. Uh, some of it is already being done on the Winchester the town of Winchester Fire Department. Winchester Center has not been in the discussions with that, but will be because we sent it back to them to say that the fire department should go to the board of selectmen with a complete layout of what uh consolidated consolidated
024plan that all the firehouses, all the fire chiefs had input on to bring it back to the um to the board. And finally, our major recommendation is that, and I'll just read this because we uh worded this, the charter revision commission recognizes the inherent challenges of incremental updates. We strongly recommend that the board of selectmen and town manager engage a professional firm such as general code to restructure the charter into a more logical and accessible document. Following this reorganization, the substance of individual sections can be updated more effectively. After the reorganization of the charter, another charter revision commission should be established to review necessary updates from the town attorney and others. And this uh we will submit to the board of selectmen for June 15th. So, having said that, um, unless the board up here
025has any immediate questions, I will open it up for public comment. >> One question. >> Yep. In this copy, um, I didn't see did you add wording for the, um, public comment requirement for board of select meetings. >> That was in in your thing. It was in the this the >> page 16. It's on page 16. >> On the table, >> but we didn't you didn't add it to any of the charter wording, right? any of the sections. It should >> No, I should have. >> Yeah, >> you're right. I should have. >> It's here. Well, it was there. >> So, yes, on page 17, actually. >> So, it's right here. So, I will do that now. >> And the good news, it's already in red. So, I could just >> bring it right up.
026>> Great lines work. And then it goes on to page 15 sorted in there. >> But it does say, you know, at any at which if you look on page 15 because at which any elector may have the opportunity to be heard regarding appropriations. So it's a different language, but there's something in there about it >> as part of original language. Also Candy on page five where the board of selectmen proposed charge do we need to add as definition of major boards board of select men as well. >> I was going to actually ask that because it's it is listed on this document >> but on the what looks like what will be charter language. It just says any member already serving on a major board cannot serve concurrently. E either we need to list
027each one of these as a major board so it's clear uh or we have to have a list of what's considered major boards in the charter >> because this is not clear. >> So I just added as a number seven up here >> but they're saying that within the language of the charter change it should be specified. I was just going on this page, Candy, because this is where it this is what looks like it's >> you're planning on putting in the charter >> and it says any member. >> I think we should just have something in the charter language that clarifies. And it can be very simple as >> at the title of each one of these boards, it could say major board in in parenthesis that would clarify it >> or you could
028have an individual list. But whatever >> whatever you and I guess ultimately the attorney thinks is the best way to get the language in there. >> Well, I think it's going to be the attorney, right? Yeah. because I'm looking at the one I'm typing in right now is um is section 315 appointments by the board of selectments. >> Mhm. >> In my mind, I'm thinking we just need to fix it in this section and not have it fixed at all section for each individual board. >> I'm thinking that that may be where the town attorney comes back is having it in 315 that covers the list. Yeah, just as long as there's some clarity in there so there's no >> confusion in terms of what the intent was. >> I like Paul's recommendation of each
029board definition to list like maybe in parentheses major board after it. >> Oh, you mean like here, >> right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So like this. >> Yeah. So you don't have to get into much detail, but it references back the statement on a major board. >> I mean, that would be pretty clear that's considered a major board if it's in the title. >> Yeah. >> Very good. But then you wanted to add board of selectment. >> Yeah, I have to do that afterwards. >> I don't want to take up everybody's >> board of selectment for what >> in the list of major. >> They can't. Ours is already listed. We can't serve. >> I think it's in the section. Yeah. >> I had to resign when I got elected. It's pretty much standard. So
030>> on director >> we can ask the attorney to make sure it covers them all. But I know that well, you know, we should probably review it because I don't think necessarily every one of the major boards required. I think there you can be I don't know. We should have it double checked though because I know on ZBA I had to resign from CBA, >> but I'm not sure that every one of these has that board of select limitation. >> Yeah. So that's a good point. We should make sure we have >> Well, if we were classify everything as a major board, that might make it easier. >> Yeah. >> Right. I guess the board of selectment is a major >> board a little bit. >> I just also want to say thank you Candy
031for pulling it all together. >> I wanted to say thank you to the entire commission. Actually, you guys have done a this is a really nice document. You've done a great job and thank you. >> Well, at 3 in the 3 in the morning, I woke up thinking about this chart down here that I did the first thing. I got up at 7 o'clock this morning, but it came to me at 3 hours. the summary layout >> and you ensured >> time well spent. >> It was kind of you to make sure that the board of ed budget is my birthday present every year. So, thank you. [laughter] >> So, now I will ask the public if they would like to comment on anything. You could uh clap for us. You could tell us don't
032do that. You could say you don't agree with uh with one of the charges. You could still suggest other things that we haven't put in here if you wanted to. Um but here's your chance, public Oh, note. We have an added public member. We have two publics. >> Make sure you got to come up and turn on your microphone. You know the drill. >> And I don't know if you were here, but we are have it on YouTube tonight. >> So, hit the button. >> Yes. >> Hit one of the microphone little things. >> Microphone. >> Yes. There you go. >> Magic. De Jaboski 181 Wallins Hill Road. I caught the gist of the um for the board of education. I think you're referring to Gilbert School not being a line item on the budget
033due to some legality. >> Yes. >> What is the legality? >> Uh Kevin Nullan has told us because they are a vendor of the board of education that it has to stay underneath their um >> a vendor of the board of education. >> It needs to stay under their budget. >> Legal. They are a vendor. >> So that means what? You couldn't move it from the board of ed budget to the select vendor to the main budget. >> So when you're a vendor, what who else is a vendor? Just to >> anybody that supplies services or >> like the transportation budget, right? >> The transportation budget is a bus company. It's in the board of education budget. Um and it says transportation. It goes to that >> because they're semi-private. The person that came and
034suggested it was thinking that it would stop the issues between the board of education and the Gilbert school because the board of education >> is a line item with and the Gilbert schools within it. So if the Gilbert school stood as a line item by itself, then the board of education wouldn't have to carry that increase. The regular budget would carry the increase. So that still doesn't solve the existing conflicts we're having year after year after year >> and the charter is not going to solve that with this revision. There's nothing to do with it. >> All right. >> So we tried, right? [laughter] So we got to go to the north. >> We have other things in the works that we're trying. There's a study. >> They have that report coming out sometime this
035falls. >> All right. Thank you. >> There's a lot of interest in fixing it. >> Oh, I'm one of the ones that's interested. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Anybody else? >> Uh, William Hester, 82 Boyd Street. >> Are you speaking as a selectman or a private citizen? >> As a selectman, um, I I'd like to thank you guys, too. I'm glad to see that it's task staying on course. When I was on it, we kind of went in way bunch of different directions. So, it's actually good to see that it's all coming together. really really excellent. I I know I'm I could stand behind this when it comes to the board of select and and uh approve this and I was just wondering do you guys know who the longest town clerk serving was? >>
036John Boyd 44 years. >> So I had straight >> after you got to get 40 years in 44 years. Remember this Glenn is the 16th town clerk in the history of the town. One more incorporated. >> Yes. >> One was Winchester Incorporated. >> 1771. >> There we go. >> Thank you. Great. Good job. Nice. >> He did. [laughter] >> I saw the sign driving down here today. I happened to notice. >> We look at it every time Luke has to call it out. Look at Winchester Incorporated. >> All right. Anyone else? Anyone else? Last call for public comment at the public hearing. I will entertain a motion to close the public hearing. >> So moved. >> A second, please. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any more discussion on it? >> If not, all in favor
037of closing the public hearing, raise your hand or say I. >> I. >> Opposed? Abstensions. Great. Okay. So, our public meeting will still continue. Um, so you're welcome to stay. Um, but the public hearing portion is officially closed. We've held it. It's on the It's on our chart of of uh things that we completed. So, let me go down to here for this board up here. So, Cheryl helped with some of this language today. And this is where I said in the email that I sent to all of you, but Holly, I don't know. I decided to leave Holly out the other night. Maybe because I shouldn't do it. >> What page are we on? >> We are on page 15. >> And this is not in there. >> What I have up on the
038board is not in there. So don't feel like you're like missing something. Uh because this uh we um was done today and I stuck it in before I left the house so that we would have it so we could all see it. I'll make it a little bit bigger if I can. >> So it's not the one that she sent us. So, this is basically what we're trying to do with actual dates, we think. >> And this is where we're trying to um see see if we can't I can't move this over. So, if the budget fails is what we're worried about is that the budget would take place within 14 days of the failed referendum. So, in order to do this, the board of selectmen have to meet and decide a new budget. And
039then the board of selectmen have to schedule a new town meeting. And then the referendum has to occur. In between each of those, the public has to be notified of what the actual budget is. >> And they have to order balance. >> And they have to order ballots. And what else do they have to do? >> Call the machines out. [laughter] >> Call the machines out. Get them ready again. >> So in your example there that says May 3rd is the So that's the first town meeting, the May 3rd example. >> Well, this that's the date. Yeah. So it starts out with >> Okay. >> I was just wondering where we were starting is all. >> No, no, this is So you have your No, you have the budget, you have the town meeting, the
040referendum. That's what's set in the proposal already. So then I was just moving forward as to how we go from there if it fails. So May 17th is the ref referendum. expectedly if it's 14 days from the town meeting that's what gets scheduled and then May 20th would be meeting to revise if it's failed. So that's where you go forward. >> So the board of selectmen in that example would have three days from the thing to meet >> and yet they'd have to get it published >> within 24 hours of board of selectment decision. But that's yeah. >> Yeah. So your so your May 22nd and all that is based on them getting a decision not you're giving them one day to make a decision right >> fire got to be firing us you know
041>> suggestions you know that's why >> that's why I'm asking everybody to to weigh in on this is because when I started making dates and and looking at where everything fell I was having a little struggle time. So the town meeting is on May 3, right? And we're saying within 14 days. So we could actually have the referendum on that Saturday. So May 3rd, >> was it the 8th would be the Saturday or the seventh? Yep. The 8th would be the Saturday. So in this example, you could go May 8th or you could do May >> 11. Whoops. >> 12. >> So I think you'd want to avoid Monday so you don't have the Memorial Day, >> right? I'm just saying that these are the possible dates that it could be. Right. >> I'm thinking
042the the big number really up there is from the failed referendum, you have five days to have another town meeting. >> So you're essentially if the board of selectman meets >> at the 3-day mark, you're giving them two days. Well, no, you've got to have it 24 hours before the >> before the town. So you're giving it one day before the town meeting to have it published. Yes, because we're just doing it online. We're doing online and then printed. Yeah. If you know, Candy, you can scroll up. I did an alternative is if you're giving now seven days between failed referendum um the four days to be able to go down further my proposal. So, it's I I did two alternatives. So, we're still looking at the referendum. >> I gave you the email. [clears
043throat] There's two. There's one and then there's two. >> Actually, can we just finish this this part right here first before you go down? So essentially the even less worrying about the dates just knowing the timing you have a referendum you have literally uh 5 days to have a town meeting with 24 hours notice. So the board of selectmen have essentially four days >> four days because they have to also >> one day for notification >> of the meeting >> right not only of the meeting of the budget itself. Wasn't Paul saying you could notice it Fridays going into a vote if it was >> you have three days to get from >> be so confusing for the public >> did something for the board of selectmen to be ready to publish you'd have three
044days >> right >> now the the other thing recognize that this whole thing is compressed >> right >> because we want to have enough time so that if there is multiple failed referendum we don't run into a situation where we're after the beginning of the fiscal year. >> We had that happen. We had special tax bills. >> It's a mess. Yeah, it's a mess. >> So, you know, it the only alternative that I saw and and it nobody seemed to be happy about it would be change the fiscal year. [laughter] >> That's not it. >> Yeah. This is way easier than that. >> So, so what I did is I took what had been sent by Candy and I started looking I looked at the calendar and I tried to see let me plot this
045out and see how this is going to actually flow. You know, there was the three to five days for the border segment. I think if we had a set periods in the charter, it gives the public already the notice going into the initial referendum and this is what's going to happen. It's going to go boom boom boom. So, we already know when the date of the town meeting is going to be, we know when the date of the next referendum is going to be and we keep doing that and that way they're informed through the charter and it's consistent. So that was one of my thought process instead of having you know three to five days or seven to 14 days or let's just have something that's more >> I was just trying to get
046my head around how much time between a failed referendum and town meeting did we have >> so this is May up here right so right here the third is our first Monday in May >> so that's our first meeting >> town meeting right and then the referendum has to be within uh 7 to 14 days. So 1 2 3 4 5. >> That's what we talked about at the last. >> 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14. >> 17th. >> So it has to be >> no later than the 17th. >> Right? So it can't be any later than the 17th >> and any earlier than >> the 10th because we say seven. We don't have to say seven. We could say five. And my thought process just that for the first referendum I
047think the the gap should be larger because I think the public then gets the engagement then once they're already engaged now in the referendum process and if they fails the time periods can be shortened >> which is why it went to the seventh. >> Is the town meeting written in here to be the first Monday of May? Is that what we're >> Yeah, that's in the proposal. Why wouldn't we make the referendum then the first or the the third Saturday or the first Saturday in May? Let's get the referendum down so that there's no guesswork on when that's going to happen because I think for people to plan on voting right now, you don't know when the date's going to be till you have the town meeting. >> If you if you chartered it to
048be the second Saturday of >> the only issue that I think we have there is the need to be able to get absentee ballots out and all of that. So make it the third Saturday then make it so if you have the meeting on the first Monday then you have >> almost two weeks but this is 2027 you can't go >> right and you're talking about the first referendum right? >> Yes. >> And we had decided that we were going to have the town meeting on that first Monday right and have the referendum that Saturday to 14 days. So if it was the second if it was called the second Saturday after town meeting that would work in any calendar. >> Yes. If you want to if you want to continue to have Saturday referendum
049which >> I think the I think where we get to >> because then we can do it in the >> I think there's some merit to PE because we hear all the time I don't know when it was. I don't know when it was. Well if it's always the same date >> that's what we're trying to get to. >> We'll hear less of that. Correct. >> Yeah. You're not going to hear less of anything. [laughter] I don't know why you're dreaming, but >> you just woke me up. >> So, how do you say that? The Saturday >> the second Saturday after the town meeting after >> the second Saturday after coming or the Saturday after the second because that way you have time to get absentes out and all that. >> So, in this situation
050instead of it would be the 18. It would be the 15th. >> The 15th, right? >> That's what we have. In any case, you'd always have 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 days between the meeting and regardless of what the day is. >> That's what we were trying to get to was kind of this regular pattern and it will avoid Memorial Day. >> Yes. >> It avoids Memorial Day because we're going starting with the first Monday. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What happens after that now we have to plot out. >> Yeah. >> Hopefully thing hopefully. Okay. So, >> but that wording of the second Saturday after the That's good because that way it's soft. >> So, I want to put it in here. I'm just trying to get it
051so I can do it. I could use my little my little thingy here. >> So, shall be held on a date. So, the annual town meeting shall be adjourned to an 8 and8 referendum on >> the second Saturday. >> Second of May. >> Second Saturday after the town >> after the second. Well, yeah. Well, if you have it on the first Monday. Yeah, I guess >> if May if May starts on a >> So, the second Sunday after the town. >> Yeah, the word after. >> In in theory, that could put you back a week because the third is almost the earliest. You're going to have the first Monday. >> But, you know, whatever. >> Just consistency. So, consistency is good. People know they're interested. They know. >> We agree. >> Yeah. >> None of
052this. I didn't know there was a >> Oh, you're still going to get >> So, in 28, the first Monday happens to be the first, right? >> Yeah. >> And the Saturday will be the 13th, right? >> That's in 28. You get to 29, it's >> the first Monday is the 7th. >> This first the second Saturday would be the 19th, >> right? Mhm. >> But with this, which is probably as far out as it's going to be then, >> but it still gives a consistency that I think >> we're all saying makes sense. >> And we're almost two weeks >> earlier than typical >> for the referendum, >> right? >> And you always avoid Memorial Day that way. >> Yes. >> Yep. >> And it's on a Saturday. >> I like it. It's on
053a Saturday. >> You like it? >> I like it. >> So, are we good with that part? >> Yep. >> I think so. >> All right. Nice. >> Yay. All right. So, let's battle the rest of it. [laughter] All right. So, if it's not adopted, so it's not adopted on that second Saturday. >> Uh we want do we still want to stay to that 14-day schedule? >> So, let's go back to your calendar on the 27th here. >> Okay. >> So, we'd had the vote on the 15th. Now you're saying from the failed referendum we have how many days? >> 14 >> two. >> No, the meeting would be through saying the the meeting should be that following Monday. >> No, the board of select the board of selectment meeting. >> Board of selectment would
054be on the 17th, 18th, 19th. >> Correct. And >> then the annual town meeting would be right after that. You could do it on the 24th which is Memorial Day. >> Right. So >> no, not next year. Not next year but it could be Memorial Day in other years. Doesn't your thing say >> which place we would kick it to? >> Did you do Friday the 20? You know, well, >> what is the language you guys have written up there from cuz I know the board of selectman have like three days to get it to. >> So, we we went on the 14 days later that we want to have everything finished. So, in order to do that, we thought that the board of selectment should meet within >> well initially we thought three to
055five days. Um, but >> make that bigger. >> Yeah. You know, I can forward this to everyone who's got a computer. >> You can zoom in. >> Just just are we all in agreement that all referenda should be on Saturday? I >> think so. >> Okay. So, first, second, third, whatever. We'll always do it on Saturday. >> Okay. Because that actually makes it easier. >> Sent it to all three of you. >> Yeah. And there's no prejudice for the people that are only up here on the weekends. >> Well, but but the thing that we're saying is that we can publish this. We know it when it is. Everybody will know when it is. It's going to be two weeks after the failed referendum, whatever that turns out to be. And occasionally, might it be
056on the uh Memorial Day weekend? Yeah. Probably it will be one out of seven years or so. >> It'll be on a Saturday. So yeah, which is why >> but it'll be on a Saturday and that's the best we can do. >> You know if this we can't be perfect here. So looking at the >> you're perfect. >> Looking at this language that that um Cheryl just sent off, we got our our first town meeting the third. We'd have the 15th would be the next would be the referendum based on this language. If it failed, the board of selectmen would have to meet by the 19th and then they would have to get it to published by the 21st which so that again the language is going to have to be they have to meet
057within 3 days and then they have to get it published >> within 24 hours, 48 hours. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's an ugly ugly thing that we're asking the board to select [snorts] me to do, but we have no choice. >> And the and and Paul Harrington was able to publish the budget within 24 hours when we had it did on a Thursday and it was Friday. It was on the website and everything. So that's why I went with the 24hour. >> So you're So let's say that using these dates, the 21st it was published. The town meeting needs to happen within five days of the failed referendums that so we >> that would be five business days or are we counting five calendar but it makes it the 22nd >> which is >>
058or the 21st five days from the failed referendum on the 15th would be the 21st [cough and laughter] or 22nd >> and that's what I had and then the next day >> or the 24th >> I I mean it almost sounds like if we have a failed the referendum would take place on the following Saturday. >> Yeah, that's what that's what the schedule is. >> And in that period of time, the board of selectmen have to figure it out, get it published, have a town meeting. >> One, two, three. >> All in a week. >> Yep. >> No, we 14 days. >> No, 14 days. >> 14 days. Yeah. >> No, no, not no. Not before the referendum. The town the meeting publication and the town meeting all happens in the same week. >> Correct.
059Right. And then you would do the >> a week later is the referendum referendum. the subsequent referendum >> the following Saturday after the second town meeting, >> right? >> Wow. It's gonna be fun. >> Yeah. >> It's it's ugly. But I [laughter] don't I don't know any any alternative to it being ugly for the board of select. >> Well, I mean, I think that the fact is is that you go into a budget knowing that if it fails, you already know the town manager and the board of the superintendent will already know step two. It's not like they're sitting they're not sitting there going, >> "Oh, I didn't plan at all." >> I mean, they're all they've all planned. >> So, they would know what their next steps are. And the board of selectmen when
060they get the budget, they will have probably somewhat of a knowledge of what those next steps are. >> It wouldn't be it wouldn't be like a surprise here. Uh >> yeah. When we had a failure two years ago, Candy, and you were still on the board with us, we came back in again. We we started looking at things, you know, we said, "How far do we want to go?" I mean, we were like, you know, we're not going to clean up Main Street anymore and all this stuff. You remember, we really got down in the weeds and then we pulled ourselves back and said, "What can we really stomach?" And we came up with another number. But, >> um, I don't know if we did it in three days, but >> Well, I mean, the
061the fact is is that I I know on all the boards that I've been on, you don't decide until the very last your deadline is when you decide. Before that, you kind of like you >> you kind of tap around. Tap around. >> Well, yeah, I want to use the right language here. I have a different word, but I'll I'll stay with the tap around. [laughter] Tap around. And it's not until it's like, well, it's human nature, too. If you have to do something at home and you have a deadline and you don't want to do what you have to do, you kind of use that time. You don't very few people just chop the head off of the snake right away and walk away with three days left to make a decision. like I'll
062wait those three days to decide if I have to chop that the head on the snake off just to make sure I know. So I think that the turnaround time by the board shouldn't be that it should be difficult in what you have to do but it shouldn't be difficult in the timeline of doing it. I think I would just change this language to reference that the next referendum, their second referendum is the Saturday >> after the first one, right? >> You're looking for Saturday. That's >> so Saturday following the first one. Town meeting is the day >> shall be held. >> The referendums are two weeks before it's two weeks Saturday after that. Okay. >> Yeah. All right. So, >> is complicated trying to walk through all this stuff, >> but that's why it
063makes it actually easier if we agree that Saturday's always going to be it referendum. >> We know that it's going to be 14 days. It makes everything a whole lot easier. We just know everything is complete. >> And I think for the voting public, who is it? Is it Monday? Is it Wednesday, is it what day? It's always Saturday, >> right? >> And two weeks later. So we would say in here we would say be held within 14 days of the failed referendum on >> Saturday. >> On the second Saturday >> the No, >> two weeks after the failed referendum. >> Yeah. Just two weeks after on Saturday. >> Yeah. The second Saturday after >> second Saturday after the first failed referendum >> after the failed because it it'll be subsequent. >> It just keeps
064going. >> The budget's not docked. The next referendum shall be held >> meeting the second Saturday. Saturday after after the film. >> It just be 14 days after films. >> Well, then how do you count the 14 days exactly? Is it >> just do a second Saturday? It's so much easier. >> So, it's clearer for the public. They're not going >> and you're not questioning Saturday. >> You're not questioning whether it's >> business days or calendar days. We're just saying it's Saturday. Yeah. >> All right. The second Saturday >> and then repeat the process if it happens again. So then so so the second Saturday after the failed referendum because we've designated the Saturday so the second Saturday is 14 days later the board meets within three days of the failed referendum at that meeting
065the board of selectman shall schedule a town meeting on the revised budget within five days of the failed referendum. >> That's what the language was in the proposal you sent. >> Do we I know I'm just asking is that what you want or no? No, I think we need to get it, you know, to move it fast. Yeah. Or we can say the town means on the first Saturday after the bill referendum. We can just be specific to that. >> Well, you could on the on the calendar have it that Monday >> unless it like you could have it on the 24th or 25th. >> Tell me in the Monday before the referendum. >> Well, it might be Memorial Day. >> Yeah, that's why. >> So, you might >> the Tuesday before the referendum. Is
066that enough time? Or you might say, you might want to say >> because you've got you got to have the the ballot. >> So it's got to be. >> So I could say the town meeting within five to seven days of the failed referendum. >> I don't I really don't recommend doing a a range. I think saying it's going to be this. So if we say >> then you got to make it that Tuesday. >> Why? >> Because of Memorial Day. >> Okay. >> In subsequent years. No, but the registars then won't have the time to do the the um the ballots for >> you. You know, I I hate the idea that you could do the town meeting on a Saturday, >> which is what I suggested here that it for example from it
067would be on Saturday, May 27th. >> You're going to have very low turnout for it, but who cares? >> So, you have the Saturday, but people do care. You're going to get on Facebook. [laughter] >> The purpose of the town meeting is frankly either to reduce >> I try to save him. [laughter] >> There's no saving. >> No, it's not. It's not. Okay. >> Making huge decisions. >> No, it's about presenting the final, taking some public input, and to your point, the public input at that point isn't to change what's there other unless it's going to be reduced. So right >> it's an interesting meeting really. >> Yeah. I mean >> so >> let's do it the Saturday >> and it used to be to set the referendum date. Now we have that done. >>
068Right. >> So then over here we would say within not within days but the Saturday after the failed referendum. >> Yeah. And you know I would suggest that we can not do it on Saturday night because No one's going to want to be there. So, >> you could do it in the morning on a Saturday. Like, >> yes, that's what I was going to say. 10:00 a.m. >> Yeah. >> Doesn't interfere too much with people's plans for the weekend, you know, the day. >> I mean, there are some local uh meetings that happen here on Saturdays that are pretty well attended. >> Yeah, that would be better. I have to apologize. I have family plans that I bust to be at. So, >> almost think but just you got my change to the prior thing
069to uh Just so I can put it out there, the um section before that where it says that the board of select shall hold one or more public hearings jointly. It shouldn't say jointly with the board of select and the board of ed. It should just say jointly with the board of education. >> Right? >> That made me nuts. So I read what does it say? [laughter] So that didn't all right. Um I apologize for having to go but I did notify the chair that I had to leave. >> Okay. Byebye. >> Bye. >> Good seeing everyone. Thank you for all your hard work. Okay. So, are we good with that? >> I'm going to take out the example, >> I think. >> Yeah, I would take out the example or or No, >> I
070would take out the example. We can if you're going to email this final draft or this next draft, we can all experiment with it on a calendar >> through what 2050. meeting. >> So the second Saturday would be >> calendar >> would be this one >> would be Saturday May what? May >> set Saturday is the 15th. >> May 15th >> for 2027 you're doing. Yeah. >> Y >> May 15. >> We don't need that. >> And then uh >> do you need all those >> board of meet >> those count meeting dates? 17th, right? No, >> we don't. >> And then Thursday, May 20th, is the board has to have the revised budget or do you want to do the Wednesday? >> Uh, I think it's not they meet to revise the budget. It's
071that they finalize the revised budget, isn't it? >> Right. So, is it before the 19th or the 20th? Because if we're having town meeting on the 22nd, there need >> Well, you've given three days for them to meet after the referendum. So they don't have to meet until the 18th, >> right? I'd say by the 19th they have to finalize it. >> Oh, I would love to see you say the 20th just because you're giving us >> potentially two days to do it. >> Then you're going to have your town meeting. >> Okay. Well, let's >> if you did the 20th doesn't work. >> Um, >> you just have this one day to be published. >> You have to be published. Yeah, that would be the next day. So that would be Friday >> 21st
07222nd >> and then the town meeting would be the day after the publication which and then the second referendum would be was it the 31st? >> No, it's a Monday. Saturday. >> The original charges. >> All right. Thursday. >> May 20th. >> Oh, yeah. >> All right. So, the original town meeting referendum. >> I think the publishing thing >> 30th is the >> 24 hours. We know we can get up online in 24 hours. And I think >> if you consider when it was last drafted, >> you know, it might it might only come out in the paper one time a week or something like that, you know. So, >> I'm going to advocate for this Wednesday. >> I'm going to advocate for May 19th. >> Why? >> Because 24 hours from their meeting, >>
073let's say they meet on Thursday the 20th at 7 p.m. >> Yep. 24 hours from then is >> now going to be Friday at 7 p.m. which is going to be less than potentially >> 14 hours from a town meeting. >> Except the reality is it would get >> finalized on the 20 and it would be published Friday morning. >> That's unless something happens, somebody gets sick, somebody's in a car accident. Yes. No, >> some the computer the computer goes down, >> you know. You >> Yeah, you're really you're really boxing yourself in, >> right? >> Okay, make it Thursday. >> Wednesday. Make it Wednesday. Wednesday. >> Oh, yeah. Sure. Thursday. [laughter] >> Darn. You got that. >> We tried. >> That was a good try. >> I failed. >> That was a good point.
074If you want to do it within the if you want to do it within this 14 day window of select because the board of selectment I mean >> you have Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday to meet. >> It's not like you don't have to meet on Monday. >> It's not like you don't have >> So then you're saying that Thursday becomes the uh during public >> not during budget season. So right here, see Paul, you have the 15th it fails and then you have Sunday to think about it because because you [laughter] want to think about it and and then you >> and then that Monday is that >> that Monday is a board of selectment meeting anyway. Yeah. >> So 17, 18, 19 gives you three days. >> Yeah. >> To think about it and
075then you decide on the 19th. It gets published on the 20th. Actually, if that Monday is usually a regular selectman meeting, then convening them right after a referendum is not going to be difficult. That three day won't even Right. >> because everybody >> that's what we were talking >> will be planning to be here that day anyway. >> Yeah, >> somebody will be planning to be here that day. >> So, those are our dates. >> Okay. I think it I think it is useful to have that example in there just >> so that people can follow it. >> That work for everyone. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Think so. >> Wow. [laughter] >> That was we had multiple meetings with the town manager and the registars. >> What's the last one, Candy? Saturday. May 29th
076is the referendum. Will you send this to >> Paul for his review? >> No, I'm not going to. >> Okay. >> Say thank you. >> Thank you. >> I like how you have it laid out. I think it's easier to follow. >> And I love the Saturday's thing. >> Yeah. >> For the referendum. >> Yeah. I agree. and taking it out of deciding. >> I could make the argument for doing it on Tuesdays as well, but the registars have the problem with Tuesdays and >> the school has a problem with >> school has a problem with it. And you know, I recognize that it is an inconvenience for people who own property here but do not live here, you know, all of that stuff. But there's no ideal time. But they also say that now
077because the state has passed no, you don't need a reason to absentee vote. It's kind of like an early vote. So people can come in and don't have to have a reason not they don't have to have a reason that they're not going to be here for the referendum. They can absentee vote. >> But they can absentee, they can't early, whatever. There is the difference, but >> there is a difference, but there really isn't. >> I know it's kind of funny. >> It is, but isn't. >> So technically, yes, there's a difference, but reality there isn't. >> Okay. So, >> not anymore. >> No. So, so over here is what uh Bill Hudach sent us right here is >> some of the things I could do. >> I got that. >> Um, some of the
078things I did, some of the things I I I I didn't. >> Right. So on page 15, do we need to use our legal names as they appear on voter registration roles or are nicknames acceptable? >> So I don't I don't really care. It's actually more than page 15. It's the end of the document. >> I didn't I don't care the other. I just figured it was worth. >> So what I did is I went in and I changed me to a candy. You know, when I do this though, they think it's like a bullet point. I always have the hardest time with it because he always thinks I'm like making bulleted lists. >> And then I made William >> and somehow you ended up with a couple of numbers in there. >> So William's
079there. So anybody else? >> William 21. >> So does anybody want a change in their name? Okay. Hearing none. So I did that one. >> Who would like 21 taken out of his? >> Yeah. >> So >> she did. >> So we need to act. He wants us to add the action by the BOS to add me to the charter revision commission. So, in order to do that, we are going to go to the town of Winchester because I didn't get the language for that. So, we're going to go here. We're going to go here. >> He wants the language from when he was added by the board of selectmen to the uh >> to the charter review commission. So, we have to go a nice appendix there. >> Right. So, >> but it doesn't
080include >> So, what date was that? Do you remember? >> Um, I don't know the exact >> when was the first meeting of >> February 17th. >> So, it would have been after this first meeting, >> right? >> So, here's the dates up here. So, it have been March 5th >> probably. >> Yeah. >> Board of select would have to do it, >> right? So, we just have to go to this document and get it. >> Can you zoom that? >> Yeah, I got just find it myself. If it's here, I think it's here. Does it be on the new business or old business? >> Don't you start cuz then the rest of us will go down. So, I don't think it's this one. So February 17th was when this commission was formed, >> right?
081And then there was a regular meeting on the 2nd. Is that when or was it the meeting after that? >> It should have been the whatever the first meeting of this commission was, it would have been the first board of selectment meeting after that. I think >> we met on the February 25th. >> So and so >> second. >> Yeah. So, where would it be? Minutes, revisions, managers report, correspondence, boards and commissions, Dr. Area Health, 250 celebration update, line item transfers, potential tax sale. Oh, here it is. Right here. D. >> There you go. There it is. All right. Then he had So that's done. That's done. Um you may something about re references made to town planning commission. Is there any specific language? Yes. >> Noting I don't didn't know what that one was.
082>> Well that's the language that's in here says town planning commission and I don't know what the town planning commission is. >> Is it is it planning and zoning missing part of its name? It could be, but it's >> is it is it in this document? >> It was. Yeah. >> U >> it's pretty much about the same. >> Yeah. So, it's it it was just kind of like a strange thing that I picked up as >> I >> had originally 11D. >> Okay. So, >> so the planning and zoning part was in the um concurrent serving on two boards. >> Yep. Was it in section 607 on page seven? >> Uh, could be. Let me look. Again, I've made reference to the earlier documents, so I don't have that with me right now. >>
083Um, what's the word that we're looking for? It was planning by itself or zoning by itself. Planning >> planning and zoning commission. [cough] >> Excuse [clears throat] me. >> I think it's in the box where three section 315. >> Uh well that's >> no because that says planning and zoning commission. >> No, this said actually just planning and that was the odd thing because I didn't think we had one of those. >> Perhaps it was u >> a word that got left off. >> A typo that got fixed. I mean again the this is going to go to the attorney for its >> right >> final review. >> Can you search that document for planning >> maybe? >> Yeah. Let's see if I can figure that part out. >> I'll show you how to do
084it. >> Go to pretend you're going to print it and save it as a PDF. >> Developments conflicts density versus capacity. A planning board might approve. >> So go to go to like print >> you're going to print. >> It was it was a very specific reference in the window. It doesn't say planning is >> we'd have to pull up the earlier draft. >> Just open it as a PDF. Now you can go to search page and then it would be clear but >> and it's gonna >> what page were you >> allow you to click through >> I think it was page >> you could try it >> I think Candy said >> just hit enter and now it should go through and highlight anywhere in this PDF that those two words are together
085>> could you send me the original >> there for the heck of it just put in planning by itself bill you That's interesting because it usually works. >> Yeah, it's on a budget. I use it all the time. Find is up there. That's what that thing is. >> What's that finding? That's weird. >> All right. Well, when you find it again, >> okay, >> it's on page five. >> Um, a planning board might approve a large housing. >> Oh, it's in the example. >> Yeah. So, you've got this >> this type of thing there, but later on you actually had something that referred to it as >> Okay. So, where aren't playing where they trust? >> The very last development conflict >> a planning board. Yeah. >> What do you want it to? >> Well,
086it's planning and zoning commission would be more appropriate, I would think. Okay. >> But >> I think in your example that is that's what is meant there because it said it might approve a large housing complex. Well, >> right. >> That's the only board that does that. There's another spot where it it's it's actually just it makes it sound like there is a such a board and I was not aware of one. >> All right. Well, when you find it, you let me know. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, register our voters. He suggested I take out the graphic. I did. >> Yep. Uh, I'm going to skip six for a minute. >> Yeah, that's actually the real substantive one. >> Uh, yellow section, the charter have to be election day. I did change that in,
087>> right? >> No, I didn't actually. Um, and I did the first one. I did change remove that. So, there's two things here of substantive issues here. So on number on his second one, three, the town clerk should became a staff member reporting to the town manager should this change be adopted. >> Yep, >> we did have some discussion of that the last time. Let me just find the town clerk stuff is what does happen in the transition. So because we don't know if it's going to be approved or not by the voters. If it does then how do we transition into it? >> Right. The the issue if we have the town manager >> which is here I don't have anything here >> the supervisor basically of the town clerk. We cannot I think
088tie the hands of the town manager in terms of what they do about that. So, for example, let's assume and and I don't think any of this is other than hypothetical, by the way, but let's assume that the town clerk refused to follow the mandate of the town manager. If we say that there is no accountability there whatsoever, then we're really saying that the town manager can't manage that employee. So, you know, that's why I'm thinking you have to be really clear that this incumbency clause really only applies to the fact that the town clerk then becomes the town clerk in the town government. It doesn't though ensure that that person can stay until they retire. It doesn't ensure anything else because we can't tie the hands of the town manager. >> They become an
089employee as anybody else is in town hall. >> That's the way >> subject to review and everything else that >> Right. That's right. >> That's the way I feel about it. But that's where >> I I'm not sure that Candy and I are agreement on that. Well, at the last meeting or the last time we discussed it, I was saying that that the current town clerk would be given the opportunity to finish out whatever that work life was, right? Because we don't know like how long is it after that? How long is it after November? Whatever it is, 27, you know, is it six months? Is it a year? or or could it be three years? >> Right. But then you were arguing that the town manager should be able to appoint right after the
090change happens. >> We can put in an incumbency clause saying that by that the elected town clerk is chosen. From that point forward though, I don't think we can do anything because it's got to be the town manager who has the right to do what they want to do. >> Think about it. after. So let's say we this happened and then the current town clerk is an incumbent. He moves into being an employee of the town >> and retires in a year. >> Whoever is then hired by the town manager, there'd be no question who they work for at that point. Right. Right. So we're only just wrestling with this person who's currently >> transition between the elected and the >> but then just to be a devil's advocate on that. >> What if the
091person in the position says I just got this job I'm staying here for the next 10 years? Is that's what intent is intended here? I think, and I'm not I'm going to just give you my thoughts as a as a non-member or voting member of this commission, but I think you transition whoever is in that role into what the job is. >> Y >> and then it it goes from there. >> Yeah. Just like that was being hired. >> I don't think there's any other way you could do it. Otherwise, you give someone autonomy. They have autonomy now, but they are um held to the standard by the voters. >> Right. >> Now, the standard is going to be held by a by the town manager essentially, >> but it's got to be held by
092somebody. >> Yeah. >> That's Yeah. So, that's kind of where I was coming down, which is why I suggested, and I have no problem with with different language. That's not the issue. But I think the key is that we cannot tie the hands of the town manager. >> Well, you are because we're writing this right now. >> Well, we're saying that that the >> No, because we're writing this that the current town clerk gets to be it. We're tying the hands of the town manager. >> Well, you're tying the hands of the town manager to the point where the town manager has the ability to terminate the employment of anybody in the building. >> Right. But what Bill is saying, he's saying two things that don't match each other. He's saying you don't want to
093tie the hands of the town manager, but because you're putting the the person that's in the job in the position, you've tied the hands of the town manager >> only to the point where you that is the person being hired. But if the town manager was for whatever reason to decide that that's not proper direction for the town, they could make a change. You're not you're not saying whoever the incumbent is gets to stay forever. You're saying they're going to report to the town manager and the town manager will manage it. >> Exactly. >> And I think I might change that. This position will report to the town manager. >> As of what date are you talking? >> Election 2027, I think, is what you know. >> What's the date? The election date that It's
094like the fifth, the fourth, the third will be the second in 2027. >> Okay. And you'd have to you'd have to say that the transition will occur assuming that the um if the referendum or if the um charter change is approved. >> We have that down here. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, your last thing was this one. >> Yep. And this one, it just it surprised me when I I read through that for the planning and zoning and zoning board of appeals, you don't have to be a resident of the town. >> They have to be electors and you can't be an elector unless you're a resident. >> So, why don't we use the consistent language then? >> Because elector shows up in different places if I remember correctly. Yeah, we had that whole
095discussion about electors on the historical committee. >> Yeah. Yeah, that was fun. >> Yeah, >> that was lots of fun. >> So, an elector is someone who could, right? So, they have to be a resident because they can elect they're more than a property owner. They have to be a resident because they can vote here for See, a property owner can vote in referendum, but they can't vote for the elected officials. >> Right. But that's that's where if the board of selectmen wanted to >> Did you look up elector in the charter bill? >> I did not be honest with you. >> There it is. It's coming. >> Here it comes. >> All right. So, definition of voters and electors as used in this charter. An elector means a person who is an elector of
096the town of um or a property. >> Okay. or a property owner. But that's that's where I think the problem comes. Can you zoom that? >> Yeah, I'm trying to. >> There you go. So, you only have for these two commissions the ability to be a property owner and still be appointed to these boards. What does it say for in the charter for for example board of selection? It says say resident or electors. >> So elector is highlighted. If we if if I get back up the top and my computer doesn't want to come. So when I put in elector I search the term elector it comes up definition of voters and elector. Um and then it just has it here. So the charter was submitted to the electors of the town of Winchester. So
097voters um and you want me to search for >> there's a there's a reference to say the board of selectmen have to be is it residents or electors because I think you could keep the language consistent >> right but it's not consistent right now it's this section you have only for these two commissions does it use different language. Powers of selectment, duties, board, appointment. So it's probably up in here. >> Probably the first one. >> Powers, ordinances, enactment. You're not talking about that section, right? >> No. Somewhere it says who they can be. >> Is that in like 607 that you have included in this document? planning and zonings is who shall be electors of the town of registry. >> Yeah, we're trying to decide I think what Bill's trying to get to is should
098it be electors or should it simply say residents, >> but I think you're also saying it's not in every single board of the major boards. >> It's only it's only the >> planning and zoning and zoning >> planning and zoning in and tax review. >> It's in zoning board of appeals. >> Our zoning board is the other one. That was one of the things that everybody went round and round and round and round and round about three or four years ago and we never got to a we never got to a >> So maybe for the purposes then of these five major six major boards these six major boards perhaps the requirement that they are electors should be in them so they're consistent. It was we wanted to be consistent. So the question is if
099we're consistent, do we want them to be residents? I would say the answer should be yes, but that's my personal feeling. >> Should they be a resident but not a voter? >> Yeah, I would think that that would be possible. I mean, you know, you can't require somebody be um >> well, there are people that >> registered to vote >> there are people that register to vote for the election then take themselves off, >> right? However, if they're residents of the town, they could be considered by the board of selectment for these positions. >> So, if they were a resident of the town, is there any way they could be an elector in another state or another town? Um, I think they could be a property owner, which according again looking at your definition of
100elector here, >> that would include property owners and you could be a property owner in many towns. >> The board of selectment shall be compromised of seven electors of the town. What section is this? >> 102. >> By the way, I did the I have it as a PDF and I searched it up there and it gave me this whole list of all the things. >> Why yours didn't work, I don't know. >> I don't know. >> Temperamental. >> Yes. >> It looks like it's in planning and zoning board of appeals and inland wetlands. >> It's not in water and sewer and tax review. tax one of the major ones. >> So, an elector by definition is an individual who is qualified and registered to vote in a public election. Is that is that state
101statute you're referring to there Pauler? >> Well, it's just definition of elector as it came up when I asked it what the definition was. I didn't find the state statute. But >> so what is again what is the what are we quibbling about here? >> Should the word elector be used or resident? Now it's the difference is a resident doesn't necessarily have to be an elector because they're not registered to vote >> here. So, so to be, for example, to be on the board of selectmen, according to the charter, you have to be an elector, which means you're a resident and you are registered to vote here. >> Correct. >> Now, you could be a resident and just be here for three months. >> What Candy showed before >> indicated the fact or a property
102owner >> and that's where that's where the question came up in my mind. a property owner cannot vote as an elector unless they're a resident. >> Then the definition that Candy showed a little bit earlier is what we need to change because that definition included that said for elector it included people who were property owners >> property owners >> and that is not I think what we're trying to say. Well, in the in the spirit of trying to simplify and clear be the have clarity, can we just use elector >> and then when the charter is as recommended that we go through it language right now, >> right? Says elector >> has the definition of an elector to include a property owner. So it's interesting in section 206 under >> change that is what I'm
103saying >> in section 206 it says all elective officers shall be residents and electors of the town. >> So it it actually takes residency and electors and separates it as qualification >> right >> for the board of selectmen. >> What number were you on >> that was on um >> so that's what we should probably do >> 206. get rid of the property owners as you said, Bill, and then when the charter is reviewed, >> right, >> it should all say the same thing. >> Yep. >> For purposes of clarity, >> and we're going to start right now, >> right? >> I agree. Electors and residents and when they go through the charter and clean it up and simplify and organize it in a better manner. So, we trying to change something now or no?
104>> No, just for that one line that Bill wants to change. >> Well, I think we should add. >> So, which section do you want to change? >> I think >> we have to have an actual charter section to change >> in this in these sections here. Section >> 604 all these here. >> What Bill's getting to is of our five major boards, only two say they have to be election. >> So, we should add the phrase, and this is where the debate is. Should it be resident or elector to serve on ZBA tax review, water and sewer, inland wetlands, and board of ed? Clearly, >> and I think I think Sandre had had it right when she just said residents and electors use that language consistently across it all, and we've got it covered.
105>> So, in 607, >> I mean, I need to know where to put the word resident. Before you before you do that, do you think there was a reason a significant enough reason that the word elector was used and not resident? >> Well, I can tell you from sitting with Kevin Nelligan and sitting on we tried to fix this. We really did try to fix it and we never got to where we needed to go because there was so much agreement and disagreement on who these people should be a resident elector property owner a business owner you know like when you do the historical mission it doesn't even have to be somebody here can be anybody now right I think we did >> historical mission can be anybody that has a knowledge of Winstead as
106in on the historical commission Uh so each commission has has different uh >> requirements I guess. >> Let me ask it this way. For these six boards, >> do you want people on them who are simply residents or do you want people on them that are residents and are registered to vote? >> I would go with the latter for myself >> or but >> so people that are registered to vote >> registered to vote and res but now but that >> but you have to be a res to register to vote here >> if you want people on these boards who are also property owners >> because that's a separate the the elector and resident is >> right we're talking about the five major ones >> I understand and then what you're saying is that
107you have the two right the elector and the resident >> which could be renter >> and then on a board but do you want on the zoning board of appeals and all of these other things. >> So, let me put this out as a question to you guys. Do you So, lake residents who are not residents, but they own property >> who certainly have a vested interest in inland wetlands and ZBA for the most part, >> should they be able to serve if they're simply property owners and not residents? >> I would say no. >> So, you think no. What do you think? >> No. >> They're not even here. They're less here than less. They're five months and 29 days. >> Yeah. I I tend to >> Oh, is that what it is? >>
108Well, because if you go you go to some It's six months in a year to be a res. Yes. >> Somewhere else or six months in a day here. So, if people are not if they're not a resident here, they're not vested in the >> then I think we should simply leave it elector because to be an elector you have to be a resident >> and it covers it all. >> Well, but >> but the current definition says you showed earlier >> says electoral And I don't >> Can you pull that back where it was? >> It was in your charter lookup thing >> when you put in elector. >> Oh, there it is. >> Yeah. Or a property owner. >> Definition of voter and electors as used in the chart. Elector means any person
109who is an elector of the town >> or property owner of the age of 18. >> Right. So, I'm this specific paragraph doesn't address boards or commissions. So, I'm going to suggest that if we want to go down this road that we have our town attorney appear before us and set up a meeting with him to discuss the word elector and everything because as you can see, I've met with him many times and I'm still not sure what we all what not just this this group of people here, but what everybody wants to do on certain boards and certain not boards. Right. That's a good idea, too, because then it'll set the precedent maybe for the future charter revision of >> We can um email Kevin, ask him to look at 1708 and weigh in.
110>> I want to get from Kevin because I asked him for it and I don't think he sent me the right year. >> Okay. >> We had this discussion. We had this discussion. I time travels very differently for me now and I something I thought happened two years ago, probably happened five years ago. But we had this conversation about electors and voters and residents and property owners. And I want to say it was three or four years ago. Well, not I want to say maybe five years ago, four to five years ago when he sent us something. He sent us something from 2008. And that's not the one I was looking for. So, let me see if I could find it from him again. and let me see if I can't get him to either
111meet with us or send us something about the definition of elector's residence and what things should be changed to. >> But I'm fine with elector if we change section 1708 >> taking property owner out. >> Yeah, >> got it. >> I think it'd be a great idea to What does this have to >> You need to submit this on the 15th. >> This may affect other sections >> the ability to vote on a budget. property owners to vote on a budget. This may >> well we can that wording can be added to referendums. [cough] >> Yeah. >> All right. Well, >> this is this is this is I think important enough point for us to try to get clear. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, we only have a report, [laughter] so let's see if we can't
112get it done. >> Yep. Andy's going to research that and report back. >> All right. Anything else in the report? We've covered all of Bill's email items. >> Do you remember, Candy, when you and I were working on something for a referendum? >> I forget exactly what we were trying to fix. >> Um, >> help me out. >> I'm thinking we were sitting right over there. were >> sitting at the table. No, it was a Saturday voting. >> Okay, so we've we've already fixed that then. Good. >> We were voting on Saturday. >> Yep. >> Thank you for remembering. >> Oh, it just came to me because I did the >> Now decide how many years ago that happened >> because I probably would it was after that Saturday thing. >> So, we sat over
113there. Yeah, >> I remember where we were. Okay. >> I remember sitting there. I just couldn't remember. >> All right. So, what I think we should do is we should have a meeting. um today next week um >> based on Kevin's availability >> that or information from him and uh but just because we have to finalize the report too. So, uh, what they say you all? >> Uh, eighth and ninth. They're the best for me. >> Uh, for me it's probably 8 or 11. >> Can we do it during the day? >> No. >> So, we got eight and 11 on the table. >> 11. I can't. Eight. >> Mark. Um, I don't know. I'll go with whatever the consensus is. Yeah. >> You're saying June 8th or June 11th? >> Yeah, >> 8th's next
114Monday. >> Probably can't the 11th. >> Graduation. >> So, that would be the eth. >> I can do the eth, I think. >> What time can you do it? >> Um, five. >> Five. >> Six. >> Do we hear? >> You don't have a game or anything you have to worry about. >> We have playoffs coming up. >> Okay. >> So, So, what time can you be here, Paul? >> I can probably make six. >> Six? >> Yeah. >> Can you do five? 5 5:30? >> I can try. >> You sure we can't do it during the day? >> June 8th. >> No, I know. I know that morning I will be in Norwood, Massachusetts. >> What about Tuesday? During >> it's going to be getting back in time. >> So, June 8th at 6.
115>> Thank you. >> Unless we have a playoff game. >> Well, then I don't know what we're going to >> Then we'll all meet at the field and rooe them up. There you go. >> Yeah, we'll have to do that. I see six o'clock. >> We can't do nine week >> the ninth during the day. You're you're the hold out. You can't do during the day. >> It's hard for me. >> I'm just out. >> Sorry. I got Paul's back on this one. >> All right. >> Okay. >> 6 p.m. >> All right. So, um I am going to send this little U document to you. Where'd it go? >> Oh, no. >> I hope you saved it. >> Actually, the one >> it's it's on Google, so it's always safe. >> So, I'm gonna
116>> I'm going to download it >> as a PDF. Then I'm going to go find you all. >> Um, All right. So, I'm going to send this to you again. >> Me, too. >> I'm going to include Holly this time. Got to leave her out again. >> Holly. >> I'm going to attach our new little document we just made. Huzzah. >> I'm sorry. What? >> I said huzzah. Or are we done after this next? >> This next one we should be done >> and we'll send it off to approval to >> the next meeting. We should um make sure we know we like how it looks. Um let me do this. >> Sounds like we're down to this one last issue. >> Well, we want to have it to the board by the 15th. So,
117>> no, but but it doesn't sound like this. It's either we do it or we don't do it type of thing. >> It's just deciding what how the what that one lang piece of language is in that one section, >> right? >> And and it might be that you have to alter the 1709 the next one which gets into the referendum and use the language from above it in 1708. Well, Bill, maybe one of the things you want to do is research and cut and paste the sections that you're thinking about into a little document for us or into an email. >> Yeah, I'll I'll be glad to do that, but you know, it's a function of the fact assuming that we are in agreement about this and it sounds like we are. >> Well,
118I don't think we are on everything. >> Just this one section we're talking about. >> Well, I think this one section might apply to voters. We want to make sure that we're not talking about voters for I mean property owners that can vote in budget referendum. >> So that we just need clarity from the attorney. >> Yeah. >> Because I don't want to knock a property owner out. >> The property owners. It's the referendum should stay electors and property owners. We're talking about membership in these boards or you know serving on these boards. So yeah, >> it's just the use of of elector in >> said you know it's either an elector or a property owner >> but it's also in another one it's in 315 >> but if you if you go to the
119next one which was referendum they just say electors. that but in in section 315 it says election of property owner >> right so >> so it's not just this one section we would change and remember when we change a lot of the sections it's going to be the charter question on that will be a fifth question >> it won't be one of the four it'll be the fifth question >> and it's going to be we have to figure out how to explain it so our work is going to be longer >> but I think everybody's in agreement that to serve on the boards you should be a Not just yeah a resident and an elector of the elector that he was looking at add to it and say >> we have to ask like that's
120what I'm thinking. >> You want to take out the part that says property owner >> but he's saying if you remove property owner it may impact other areas of the charter if you define that paragraph and say with the you know regarding major boards and commissions elector is just an elector. A referendum can say elector and property >> referendum through the whole rest of the charter I think right >> is that what you're saying yes >> timing time is very >> I just I just yes I mean yes but I just remember it being such a difficult moment that with elector residents etc etc and it was so difficult that's why it didn't get done as we try is trying to get to that It's like one of those like one of those research things
121that you have to would have to sit down with and it's like a class almost to figure out elector resident etc etc. >> We have faith in this group. >> I'm going to make motion to not >> is not in a second. >> Thanks Bill. >> All in favor? >> I >> thank you all for coming. >> Thank you very much. >> I'm sorry. I just wanted to finish my minutes. No. >> All right.