Inland Wetlands Commission - May 21, 2026 Regular Meeting

001All right, everybody got their mics on here? All right, I'd like to everybody ready? I'd like to call to order the uh May 21st Town of Winchester Inland Wetlands Watercourse Commission meeting. Um we'll start with a a roll call. I'm Russ Davenport, I'm the vice chair. I'm stepping in for Steve Molinelli who is the chairman who is absent excused. I think that's the term we use. >> have your mic on. Oh, it was. All right. Told people to put their mics on. Did everybody hear that? I think so, it's a pretty small room. Um under roll call uh Steve Molinelli as I said is absent excused. Russ Davenport here. Jeff Lippincott. I didn't hear from Frank did call out though. Okay. Uh is not with us. Frank Oliveri is absent excused. Um Gary. Here. Um

002Matt. Present. Uh Jamie. Here. And Mary Ann. Present. And Kevin. You know he's absent excused. Okay. Um under agenda review is there anybody that would like to add anything on our panel? Is there anything different about this agenda than the one that was in our package? Okay, great. Thanks. I did want to add something that I think I would put under maybe just discussion. I think would be under other maybe under other business. I just wanted to bring up um the Main Street property. There isn't really an address for it, but it's at the north end of town going to Norfolk across from 183, I believe. Yep. Um that is ID 101-101-12, which is owned by last North 18 LLC. I'd like to just open a discussion about about the status of that. Um Under

003also is election of officers, but I think from last month or last month's discussion, we kept that under the meetings under the election of officers that we kind of kept everything the same. >> Yeah, that'll be removed going forward. Apologies. Um And then under approval of minutes, do we have any discussion with that amongst our panel? What did you think about my notes with a slightly more robust Uh they were pretty good. And it brought to Paul's attention that I don't think we ever really Okay. Okay, great. All right. Cuz I you know, remember I suggested yeah. >> Yeah, we discussed trying to just get some better verbiage into Just a little bit more detail. >> into our approval minutes. So, we we did we don't have it in our current minutes from the last

004meeting, but it would be great to do that, but Would anybody like to make a motion to approve the minutes? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from uh the April 16th, 2026 regular meeting. Second. Thank you. And then let's get right into it under old business. We have our first item IWWCC 26-3, which is Winstead Winstead Road Realty LLC and that's on Earth excavation on Torrington Road. Is there a representative there? Here? Could you just announce your name just for the recording here? >> My name is Wes Cowen representing Winstead Okay. And Glenn Webb C. Webb and Associates. Okay. Ian also a scientist at C. Webb and Associates. Got some heavy hitters here. All right, good. All right, tell us a little bit about Yeah, let's go over the Your project. I know

005we have Everyone should have these in their packets, right? So, we're here to to restart an existing quarry. And that last received permitting from the town in 2002. When we were here two meetings ago initially we had five phases in the project. Which is what the original permit had. But since that time we've [clears throat] uh revised the plan and eliminated uh the fifth phase which has the only wetland on site. And it's area. So, it has So, we won't be anywhere near that existing wetland. >> On this existing map phase five was to the left of phase three. And that's the area where the wetlands were are on the property. So, we've taken that completely out of the permit for the application. So, the wetlands are no longer in play. So, I So, uh

006basically a little history again was Pepper Quarry most primarily removed sand and gravel. Very little rock. But, they did leave a lot of bedrock exposed before they stopped operations. So, the the proposal here is to create a rock quarry um in the uh Which was fully permitted >> back in the day, but he like you said, he never got to the blasting operation. He took off the the low-hanging fruit, all the sand and gravel off the property, and then he never never proceeded to do any of the blasting or any of the rock removal. So, all of our all of the proposed activities are in um Yeah, I mean, those proposed activities that are in the uh upland review area are in previously disturbed area. So, there is no new disturbed areas um uh in

007this proposed project. So, basically, there is no there is no new uh activity under the, you know, jurisdiction of the Wetlands Commission in any sense. Al- However, we are working in that upland review area to regrade um primarily the front of the site so that the stormwater no stormwater runs off the site into adjoining properties. That's in phase one on that three. Okay. And I think it's important to note just for context, the wetland that is the discussion that it's nearby is in the front of the parcel, Right. >> right off site. Uh so, you have the Still River coming in, or a tributary to the Still River, that's kind of disconnected and not part of this drainage system where the new improvements are, but that basin that's out front, that was a created water

008quality basin at some point. It's excavated basically around the perimeter of it. is, you know, got some older trees that have grown in. Uh but if you were to go to this site, you'd see that big tall row of arborvitaes. That's like 25 ft tall. Right behind that, between those arborvitaes and the road, there's a depression that was that was excavated out. So >> Right. all those improvements are essentially the wetland that we're talking about. While it's renaturalized, originally it was renaturalized water quality basin as a Oh, okay. I don't know. A wetland is a wetland once it's created. It's a Yeah, so yeah. Yeah, that's why I said it's naturalized. Yeah, well, it has plants in it, but you know, it uh it's you know, it was a man-made excavated water quality basin. So,

009um So, on this site, the on this plan, you could see the basins proposed now are much bigger than that one little one that the original uh on the front there where it says FL equals 705.4. That's basically what the existing where the existing basin is. >> Yeah, that's the only existing basin on the property. The one north of it and to the into the south, those are going to be created as part of this application. So, right now, the town has hired a outside engineering firm to review this plan from an engineering perspective related to >> That's through the building department or through zoning? For zoning. Through zoning. Is there a zoning variance for this or no, it's been through that before? I would think. >> Yeah, no, there's no Not that we know

010of. There's nothing to do with that. Yeah, no, they're before And we've already Yeah, we we were here Monday in front of the Right. P&Z. Yep. Uh basically, I mean, it's a you know, it's it's predicted to be you know, a 10-year program doing one phase at a time. The storm water system has been designed in two phases where the initial phase is what we have shown here and and the other as as we open up phase one and get some room to work because right now there's not a lot of room there and we're going to use about a third of it just for storm water. And then the basin will be enlarged as as they get into phase phases two and and so forth. So, it'll be a large one one more time,

011not considerably, but enough. So, the work that's taking place in the existing processing areas, basically we're regrading that so that nothing runs off the site and all it all ends up in that basin before and then gets treated before it comes out into that well in the out front. Into the existing what you're seeing is existing The existing is grade to four bay. So, the whole the whole thing is going to be shifting over towards that all the water quality basins. So, that's what those red contour lines are to the changes that that we're making to uh Basically to pitch into that corner. Yeah, pitch it into that corner. Do you use any water in your process? You have a well there that you don't >> No, there's no washing. >> The only the only

012water that's ever used in a this operation would be for just dust control. Yeah. >> Okay. That's what that's what I I know I was just curious. I didn't know if you had a well there. >> we don't do washed aggregate or sands or any of that stuff. It's all just just crusher run and there's no water processing whatsoever. The and then there there's a a A plan for that the uh uh forebay of the sediment forebay and that that needs to be cleaned out on a regular basis and that'll be picked up and put in a sealed body truck and removed from the site uh uh just a short distance down the road to their recycling facility. We have a recycling facility right down the a quarter of a mile down the road from

013there that we would just That you handle other people's We have our own other people's It's a recycle yard for for all kinds of rock materials, dirt materials, wood materials and things like that. So, we have that processing facility. So, anything that we clean out there just be shipped down the street to our own facility. The the basins were also designed so the machine can get into them and clean them out so that it could be done rapidly and often. Right. So, it's not no hand work, none of nothing like that. It's all all just straight machine work. Pretty straightforward. Uh Was there a limitation we talked about from the P&Z said that only three acres at a time? >> Yeah, there is That's being addressed with P&Z. >> okay, cuz this says 3.74 acres.

014>> part of our comments with P&Z. They're aware of it. So, any other you know Yeah, yeah, sure. We can know. Um Gary, I know this is probably right up your alley, too. You've done a lot of this type of work. Right. Kind of self-explanatory. Yeah, yeah. It works. It works. It works fine. Now, we did take you know, we did take your comments in the Sure, yeah. So, originally we were just trying to get the original application just reapproved and stuff. Obviously, had to make some changes to the water control systems and stuff like that and address any issues the town had. I I see a letter here from I don't know if it's town of Wallkill or from engineer dated today. That just came in this this afternoon. Yeah, we haven't seen that.

015Okay, so obviously he's We've been in consulting with them, talking to them, so But none of these We didn't get the letter till late, so Understood, yeah. So I just it's on our desk tonight when we get here. So obviously there's a couple things in here that they want addressed. So As far as wetlands? Um I don't think I don't believe so. It's a a dual report. >> It's a dual report because their comment was was they were actually saying why are you even having wetlands because we took because we took the wetlands out of the out of the application, so This is all right. So are there any germane I haven't seen the letter so I just scanned it really quickly. Yeah, there's a Jeff, did you get a chance to go through it

016at all? Scanned it, yeah. We got it at what 4:00. Something like that. Well, at least we scanned >> [laughter] >> Does anybody think we have issues with adjacent properties on this? >> We we actually own all the adjacent properties so it doesn't apply. >> [laughter] >> You don't want a public hearing for yourself? All right, we can call on him. So we went through that at P&Z on Monday, yeah. So we have we have all the surrounding properties to this, so Is P&Z doing a public hearing? They have to, it's a special permit. Yes. And that opened on Monday and was continued to June. Is there any more discussion we'd like to have in our mama panel or Well, if there's possible revisions that may come of this, obviously reducing the size of the

017phases. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing like we should Well, it need to come back to us for a modification if things are different or It only We come back to you if there are physical changes within the upland review area. Okay. I mean, if some of the phasing lines get reshuffled around, that doesn't really impact their, you know, their stormwater management. It doesn't doesn't impact the work that's in the upland review. And then as we go forward, too, as we open up more area, you know, and stuff like that, you know, as we renew permits, we'll be back in, you know, and adjusting things and stuff like that. So. Yeah, your your permit here is good for 5 years. The permit in P&Z is only good for two. So, they'll have to come

018back to P&Z 2 years from now, and then 6 years from now they'll be back to you to renew, and so on and so forth. So, that's kind of a checks and almost like a checks and balances moving ahead. Yeah. I guess if there's no more discussion, if anybody like to make a motion on this. I think we have a general consensus that it's something should move forward, or Unless there's any more discussion. I'll make a Are you good? I think we're Yeah, no, I'm good. Okay. Maryann, did you want to review a few more things with that, or have any other questions? Um, I was just looking at the distance between the end of phase one and this tributary that goes into the Still River, but it looks like there's enough distance. Do you

019want to make >> There's as far as phase one goes, too, Maryann, there's there's nothing that's going to be, you know, leaving the site. There's There's a There's a an existing hall road up the side, so there's there's no activity over here, and it's already paved. And we're >> So, there's no You can see where where it shows like a little tracking pad at the bottom. That's a paved road along the side of the property there. So there's no activity. That's an access road that we're going to utilize to go up, but there's no activity as far as blasting going whatsoever. Because especially as we have all our water controls on that side of the property, too. That's your existing hall road. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was put in the previous year. That Yeah,

020that was part of the 2002 application that was put in. And the planting plan from 2002 >> is completed and is established. >> now 26 years old and it's a robust all in good shape. Everything survived. I think if you if you look at this here, the letter from the engineer, he just lists some engineering conditions of approval. And I think maybe if we move forward with an approval tonight, just reference this letter. Cuz there's some stuff that I think is obviously he felt that important enough to put it down there. There's seven uh There's eight conditions he put in there. Okay. Should we just read them out loud? Yeah, cuz these guys haven't even seen them. I mean I can do Sure, yeah. Or can you make some copies of it for these guys

021if they want to see Yeah, it's already been uploaded to the portal. Okay. Is that something you want to read off >> Should we read them? The engineering conditions of approval that at the end is that what you want? Yeah, that's what I was thinking, yeah. >> Okay, so number one, final approved plan shall have live signature and seal of the state of Connecticut licensed professional engineer and surveyor of record. He shall be submitted to the town of Winchester planning and community development office prior to any construction. Number two, provide the name and 24-hour emergency contact telephone number to the CEO WEO for responsible party regarding the maintenance of the proposed erosion and sedimentation control measures. Um three, provide an erosion and sedimentation control measures bond estimate. Said estimate shall be reviewed by the engineering

022consultant and bond set. No permit shall be issued until the bond has been posted. A pre- Number four, a pre-construction meeting is recommended with the town of Winchester staff prior to start of construction to inspect ENS control measures and to discuss construction sequencing and phasing. Number five, during the construction earth rock removal process, the owner, developer, contractor shall add erosion and sedimentation control measures as deemed necessary by the town of Winchester staff and or the engineering consultant. Six, daily inspections and required maintenance of all erosion and sedimentation control measures shall be shall be completed by the owner, general, or the site contractor until a permanent vegetated cover is established. Repairs shall be made immediately after inspections and until a permanent vegetated cover is established. Uh defined as 70% turf establishment. All erosion and sedimentation control

023measures shall remain in place and maintained until a permanent vegetative cover is established. Number seven, an as-built site improvement grading plan, which shall include topography, locations of all altered areas within the limits of disturbance, shall be submitted to the town of Winchester staff for review and approval after all the site work is completed and prior to requesting the release of the ENS bond. Said map shall be prepared by state of Connecticut registered land surveyor. Number eight, a final site inspection shall be completed by the town of Winchester staff and or the engineering consultant prior to the release of the erosion control and sedimentation control sorry, erosion sedimentation control bond and or the issuance of a certificate of occupancy. Please note, this inspection shall only take place after the receipt of the as-built improvement and grading

024plan as required in item seven above. I think it's good we read this because we should understand if we're asking for an as-built as-built at the end of every phase or at the end of all phases. That's not clear. I take that as when the project is complete. When all phases are complete. Is that something that comes to our board? >> that. Just just because of all the other courts there's I've never had to do an an update during phasing plan. The phasing the phasing plan is just kind of our in-house type of way that we go and tackle the project and stuff like that. And so when we do renewals and things like that when we have to re-provide maps, that's when we it shows current updated conditions as as you know as when

025we do our renewals all those maps are obviously redone at that at that time. All right, but if You need to also understand that when you're done with phase one it's a flat you know you know somewhat flat area whatever that you use to access the face of phase two whatever. So you're not you're not doing the restoration and as well until you all all phases are done because you're working over the top of the previous phase. The reason I asked is because we know we have the three-acre limitation in the planning and zoning regulations which you guys are going to have to deal with. Correct. >> assumption and maybe it's an incorrect assumption is that every three-acre project will require a new permit its own permit. No. Like I said it it requires a

026renewal every two years at P&Z anyway. And what P&Z will do is they'll evaluate how far along they are in the problem. I mean they you guys have been operating at the north end of town for how long? A long time. >> Yeah. And that's that's got five or six phases to it as well which are have been going on for 20 years or so. And so, there's areas of that site that are stabilized cuz they're no longer being worked on, and there's areas that are actively being worked on. And so, what I think what Tom's suggesting here is when the site is all done, buttoned up, and they want their erosion sedimentation control bond back, which we're going to hang on to essentially until they're done. When they say, "We're off the site," which

027they could not finish off the five phases. They could do the first three and say, "We're done with the site for whatever reason." But, that's all going to be required when they want their bond back. We're at that point at the quarry you were referencing right now because we just completed last last fall the end blasts and stuff like that. So, now we're in that process now of doing getting the restoration started and that that kind of thing. But, that's after 20 years. We wouldn't you wouldn't restore a phase one because we're going to be going back and forth through that area, and there's nothing to you know, to establish at that point. Everything perimeter-wise is already established because of the old permit, and it just it worked out well for us. Yeah, the reality

028is that that that site is going to is going to have open areas essentially until they're done because all the erosion sedimentation controls, the ponds, and and you know, the basins, and all of that is at the bottom of the site, phase one. So, we're going to hold on to that ENS bond until they're done. Right. And that was my next question, which is Sorry. I think you get it back. I think that's how that works. So, I was just curious. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's been over 20 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. You get about 35 seconds. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Uh my next question is about the bond because this clearly states that the bond has to be proposed by them and then approved by the engineer. So, any approval that comes from this

029board would have to have that as a condition. And I've And you you just read that condition in. It was read in. Yeah, so you just read it in. And I that's the typical way of doing bonds. Um I know that this commission often just sets a bond amount, but typically you let the engineer of record figure out, you know, an estimate and then we would review it and approve it based on that. So that you have a, you know, they usually build in some contingencies and and what not. Okay. We're in pretty good shape. Would anyone like to make a motion? Mary Ann, make it. What's that? Mary Ann, make it. You I'm not making a motion. Sorry. Okay. >> [laughter] >> You used up all your Mary Ann voice chips. >> [laughter] >>

030So I'm allowed to make a motion as a chairman. I'd like to make a motion to approve IWWC 26-3 for Wesley Clow on behalf of Winstead Road Realty Torringford Road Map 045/Block Block 158 Lot 0491. The only condition of approval would be the uh uh compliance to the engineering conditions of the um sir consulting civil engineer's report. With date. On sorry, on May 21st, 2026. I'll second that. Oh, don't we need to also refer to the conditions? I think I just did by saying it was I referred to the conditions of the engineering conditions of approval on this civil engineer's report. >> we need to do a condition refer in the conditions to the P&Z approval? They they're getting the same report. Okay. Great. Gary second that. All those in favor? Is that unanimous? Okay.

031Thank you very much. All right, thank you very much. I'm glad you pushed on that. Please push people. All right, our next order of business under old business is item C which is IWWC 26-4 and that is 508 West Wakefield Boulevard. That's a post factor application for causeway reinforcement, tree removal grading for walkout basement, new well and other site improvements. All right. Brian Lavigne, Serena Home Improvement. Okay. Are you the only representative? I didn't know if the owner was coming too. Okay. All right, thank you. All right, well, I think we've reviewed I know last meeting we had We had your con- sub- contractor was here. >> Yes, we had a sub- sub-contractor. We had a lot of questions for him um but I think now we're looking at a new set of plans here

032or a different set of plans and if you could walk us through what you got going on there, that'd be great. Sure. Do we have a new set of plans? I don't have a new set of plans. I thought well, maybe I it was the same I thought we had we didn't have a grading set of plans. No, we don't. We didn't and we don't. That's the second set that I I provided for last meeting because it includes the well the well. Right. So, I have I have this from >> asking for the landscape designers plans which I don't >> Yeah, you were supposed to be >> I have Yeah, landscape we're not going to be able to get it. Yeah, see we don't have it. That's what we asked for last time. Yeah, there's

033a there's a preliminary landscape plan. Is that what conceptual layout is that from? I have this from I think maybe from last I think you should have had that before your last meeting. I might have that. So, and and with this is also this drain this map. And that's the map I called that's up on the Okay. I guess it's hard I can't see it. I can only remember. Yeah, so those are the those are the two latest plans. Okay. Um okay, then I'm wrong. I thought I thought these were newer. I might have pulled them out of my old last month's packet. >> Yeah, no no, those are those are the plans you had. You had those for for last month's meeting and I think you know, the understanding I I think the commission

034needs to recognize that the landscape plan isn't fully fleshed out. So, so what you could do is you could do a conditional approval on the project overall that if the landscape plan is substantially different from what's there, it comes back for modification. Mhm. I don't know about that. I mean they didn't Well, let's start with uh any of the let's start with what you brought what you got going on here. Could I could I just ask this? We had made requirement that this site be cleaned up, everything out of the water. We gave them 7 days. Was it done? Uh an extension was asked for and approved. And then everything is out of the water. All right. We'll approve the photos we photos. We'll approve the extensions. Yeah, I did. For how many days? Two

035days later. What was the reason for the extension? There's just matter of time, I think. I think we were trying to get the wall out of the out of the way and we only had a little bit of the zip board to attach. Got the wall out of the way. And it was up to the I don't even remember anymore. I think it was just couldn't get it done in the in the lot of things. We had a day delay when we started after the meeting when I got back. And then uh just needed extra time. Did everything get out before the water level came up? Yes. Yes, sir. So, Steve and I walked and everything looked good. We were delayed I think. They had everything on this side of the silt fence and and

036then they just hadn't cleaned up as far as the yard zone. This has been raked all the way. I don't know if Great. So, right now we've got our erosion control set up there on site, right? Can you verify? >> Yep. Can you verify? Yep. All trees have been removed back all on the other side of the silt fence, was that as I remember that was one of the Yeah, all issues we were having. Everything is back on the side of the silt fence that needs to be. Okay. And this is an after back application for tree removal, grading, walkout basement, new well, and other site improvements. And the the causeway land bridge repair. Can you talk a little bit about maybe that? That's one of the Is that one of maybe the bigger excavation

037issues there, the causeway or We spoke about the the causeway in the first meeting. Okay. And uh who was the chair? I don't remember. Well, we talked about it in the last meeting, too. What did we talk about it now? Cuz I I don't I don't remember. Let's talk about it at a later date. Let's get all this stuff done. So, there wasn't much conversation about it. >> Okay. From what I was told, I don't think it was discussed last meeting, either. It was discussed, but there was no conclusion, but there we kind of discussed the fact that there may have to be remediation to bring it back into compliance because you took part of the lake away when you did your repair. Well, side of the new board it had storm water. Correct. You

038added 8 inches either side of this to get the concrete in. I don't think it was 8 inches. It was 5 inches, 5 inches. We did add it. Yeah, we did we added to it. Yes. We didn't touch the lake but Wrong thing to do. Exactly. So Matt, do you have a specific question? I think I know you know this site pretty well. This is all the I think we had asked for what? Updates on the existing topography, proposed topographies, all that. Yeah, and I think the wasn't like the grinder pump in the wrong place and the well in the wrong place? >> We're going to put a new well in. Right. >> on the original plan, correct? But weren't they in the right place on the plan? Cuz remember they dug They dug >>

039and then they Well, that is what they dug is not the well but the dirt in the sedimentation. We're doing the well. Trying to look at the minutes here from last summer. I might be wrong but I thought there was a discussion about the well on the map not being placed where it's going to be on the site. Okay. It's always been in that location. This this second set is where we we drew the this you know, the the overflow pit, if you will, the sedimentation pit. I need a full set of these plans cuz I didn't get a packet last time. Maybe it would be helpful if I just kind of went through the the minutes from last from things we discussed from the last from the last meeting sub contract. I'm just going

040to read this. This is the uh the summary of the draft minutes. Um Subcontractor Jeremy Bishop appeared on behalf of the applicant and discussed the commission's erosion controls which have been put in place since the post facto application was stated. I think we kind of went through that that that those conditions have been met. Right. Um Also stated that uh Miriam Reno made motion to allow the removal of the natural materials from the shoreline to be completed by 4 20 4 24 26 with notice provided to staff before starting work. Where do we stand on that? >> That was That was taken place now. Okay. Okay. So, that's still ongoing. No. No. Okay. So, it is complete. Okay. Uh $2,000 bond $2,000 bond must be posted in first and a mini excavator may be used

041to reach over the erosion controls in place. It seems like that has occurred. Um Excavator may not disturb any area outside the erosion controls and no stump grinding to be done. Uh And it says here we get into a full site plan must be submitted for landscaping and regulatory review for any additional site work to be allowed. That's what we asked for. That is what we asked for. So, we have the old one. We don't have one that is updated. Is that Yeah, we don't have a landscape plan at this point. Jeff and I spoke about it. And we realized we we couldn't get that done. Probably fit into this application. So, I don't know if you can like you said make make that amendment or if we have to come back for another application

042specific for the landscape, we can do that as well. So, we have an original landscape plan, but that one's not going to be followed probably, or is that the case? That was That was the proposed plan to the client. I know the client's going to have changes. We don't know what those are yet. Right. So, we're we're waiting for that. We need to know exactly, as you're moving ahead, right, exactly what the landscape plan is. I haven't seen another draft of it, so Right. Okay. Yeah, we were plan specific. A whole site plan must be submitted for landscaping and regulatory regulatory review for any additional site work to be allowed. Right. >> We were And nothing new has been submitted. We're not doing any more site work, and that was submitted. That's the site plan.

043It's not the landscape plan, but it's the site plan. So, the original site plan, has anything been any of that work been completed? Like the well, for example, like is that >> No. But I think I've been hearing that maybe the well wasn't on that location. >> No, the well is in that location. The old one? >> What they did What they did with that well is the proposed well, they did a They done a sedimentation hole to drill a well out of sediment going up. Right. They didn't do the well, so they filled the hole back in and graded it over. Now, in order to do the well, they have to dig the sedimentation basin again and put the silt fence around it. Right. But is the well in the same place? Yeah. Okay.

044So, in a sense, that hasn't changed from the plan, just how they executed the work. Maybe there's there's some confusion because the existing well is in the driveway. Yeah, no, I was That one was collapsed. No, I know. I'm talking about the new well, this proposed well. Is that in the exact same location as this set of plan? Yes. Okay. It's always been in the same Okay. No, no, I just wanted to clarify that. What about a I mean, we've got the erosion control. What what about a drainage plan? Is this Is there some drainage on this? I'm looking You know, I'm kind of looking through this. I see, you know, typically there's I don't know if that would be part of Usually that's not part of a landscape plan, but I don't know if

045there's any drainage. Maybe there isn't. We would put drainage on the on the landscape plan because I know they're proposing some, you know, retaining walls. You know, which would require drainage and whatever material they used Sure. would be um What am I looking for? The the self-draining material. Um Crushed stone, maybe. >> That kind of stuff, yes. Yeah. Yes, we're still in the question. So, what are you doing with your roof leaders? We don't have a plan for anything. You better You're leaving them there? I don't know >> have a means and methods. We don't have a plan for drainage. We don't have anything. >> Yeah, typically we see we have a whole site plan that shows any drainage, whether it was existing or or new. I mean, you you Were there additions being built

046on the house or is mostly just cosmetic? No, it's been torn off, like the whole thing. >> Right. It's been rebuilt. It's been rebuilt. So, typically we Right. So, typically we would see we would have a set of plan I not to We always have a set of plans that show any drainage from roof leaders. If there's old drainage, it's noted on the site. If there are footing drains, it's noted um If there are new footing drains, I know there's a area where you excavated in the back under the porch and then you refilled. Like, what about those footing drains? We don't have any of that information. >> we're going to Well, we We need an actual This This isn't the type of site plan we need, right? We need something that has all of

047that information, that has your means and methods listed. I'm I I can give you footing drains and where it's going to go. I'm not exactly sure. >> Well, you can sit with these guys. They can tell you exactly what we need and they can probably give you examples of plans that have been approved, if that's helpful. That's fine. I've been sitting with these guys the entire time though and that never came up. So, I want to make sure that we have plans and I want to make sure that we have plans. >> this iron this out so that, you know, we have a set of plans that that that are showing us exactly where all the drains That's mostly what we deal with here at the lake with houses is drainage Stormwater management. and stormwater

048management. So, you're on a site that has, you know, almost three sides of water. I mean, it's pretty three sides. So, it's a high, you know, it's something that's uh certainly a high visibility, but also something that certainly all of our sites require uh a true mean like they said, a means method, a true drainage. Um a full drainage plan that's on the civil. your building, did you create more roof in that building than what was actually there before? >> We added a couple dormers. But, you didn't create any more uh any more area as far as impervious to where you're going to have more runoff coming down your leaders? No. What did it have before? Did it just run off onto the ground and down the down the hill or did it go into

049drains? Oh. At the I couldn't tell you. There were There were so many pipes and drains that lead to nothing and just cast iron that's been broken. Right. And if I guess There was There was nothing on it that would lead me to believe that it was going in anywhere. All right. Let's make this simple. We need for you to tell us or explain to us what you're doing with your roof water. Okay. And what you're And what you're doing with your footing >> Your footing drains as well. Yeah. Okay. That's That's basically where we're going with this. Okay? And on the whole property. So, if you're disturbing more of the structures that are on the property, we need to have that information about all the structures. Cuz there are I think five or six

050structures on there. >> Yeah, we're not touching those in this. Okay. Yeah, if you can give us something that shows us what you're doing with your leader drains, or if it's coming with no leader drains, no gutters, just coming off the roof, and how you're going to stabilize that, um that's primarily what we're looking for. Yeah, I mean, it's a very straightforward and and a sense request that that all of our plans come through with that on it. You know, on a on a s- so we can say, "Okay, well, this is where you're bringing this water to and say into a small re- rain garden or retention pond to help drain it before it goes in the water, you know, like I said, stan- pretty standard procedure for for all of our our big,

051you know, sites. And your yours is a big site. It's a big remodel. Um Oh, one other thing, in the last meeting, when I forget the fellow's name who was here. Jeremy was here. He said that the patios are changing some. So, if the patios are changing, we also need to understand what's going to happen to any drainage as it relates to that impervious area. >> plan when we finally get that and the landscape plan. Yeah, so you're going to have a a landscape plan, which you have a version of and a version of this that just shows all your >> Well, the Usually the the patio the impervious coverage is on the site plan as well because it does have to they have to tell us how they're dealing with the runoff on the

052imper- in the impervious area. >> Once I get the the landscape plan, I can update the site plan per that. >> Well, we wouldn't then give you a permit for any patio work, right? If it If the plan comes in without patio work and and that information on it, then you'd have to come back for another permit for that work. I understand. Okay. Yeah, so if you get, you know, all your ducks in order in one shot, so when you finalize your you know your landscaping plan and and include any drainage of this and then you'll have a site plan like this that shows all your drainage that your engineer would draw up or your Let your under Let your engineer know that nothing can be directly discharged into the lake. Right? Okay, it's got

053to go out into a detention basin or It's got a purpose. Yeah, they're pretty they would know I mean usually they would know they're very pretty stink. >> know? Yeah. Maybe in this case we're not doing too good right Well, you're right. We're not doing too good right now. But these are all things that we can certainly work through with you and you know we just we just need them provided on a on a formal set of plans and then no no different than your build I'm sure your building plans you have a regular building permit, correct? Correct. Yeah, so that would show exactly all you're doing. We're just looking for the same version of that with our drainage and impervious pavers and landscaping all It's just more detailed. Yeah. And if there's anything you

054think that's you know you're not sure of certainly reach out to Jeff and you know what the more detailed the better even if you think it's if you maybe show some existing piping you said maybe there was some older piping maybe you can show existing and say oh that didn't go to anything and now it's gone and anything is is helpful even some pictures >> Yeah, they will require some taking and I and I know we can do that. So Like I said the more the more detailed the better helps with with with getting something accepted. Is there is there any way I can proceed with getting the well in while I'm working on that for you guys? Cuz once once once let me Definitely not. Why not? We need we need to give you

055a permit. Yeah, I think initially I you know I was we can't go back to I wish you were here in in the the initial the initial meeting but we had kind of asked about all this stuff. I mean, I've got translated to you, but um like I said, you're you're in a high you're under a lot of jurisdiction in in a wetlands area. With with building, you got wetlands. Like he said, you got wetlands on three sides all the way around you. It's a >> And you have an area in the back that, you know, it has issues, right? That Sucker Brook area has has issues. Issues mean like sedimentation issues? Yeah. >> Exactly. So, you know, it's like it's a highly sensitive area. Yeah. Probably more so than you maybe realized. Yeah, I

056don't even know that area you're speaking of. Right. What was it called? Sucker Brook. >> Sucker Brook. Sucker Brook is the is the water course that comes out spills out into the little inlet behind the house, right? Behind meaning by the causeway? Yes. >> Yeah, so not in the open lake part at the back. Uh and uh We weren't be causing any drainage on that side. Anyway, so. Right? We don't know till That's up to your We need a site plan. Yeah, yeah, that's up to your engineer to determine how you're going to deal with the storm water. Yeah. Because that the the property slopes in all directions. Okay, you need an intense site plan. Something that tells us everything that we need to know. This is basically just existing conditions with a well well

057location. Can I make a request? >> Put it on there. Would you guys mind asking Haley Ward if they would be willing to have you share some of their recent plans on some like bigger projects with these guys so that they can see something that really checked all the boxes for us? It's a public record anyways. Once they're Oh, yeah. Yeah, once they're submitted That's right. That's right. Yeah, Yeah, good, So, I I will just make a note for the commission that we are up against a 65-day deadline. So, what we need to do is get an extension request from the applicant to kick this to the next meeting. Um if you're amenable to that, otherwise the commission's going to have to be forced to make a decision tonight, and I think I know which

058way that would go. So. Can the extension request be made verbally right now? >> Yes. Yeah, okay. Can I request that I get an extension of my application till the next meeting? >> to say. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I'll make it. >> paying attention. I was just looking for the date. I'll make a motion to grant an extension request for application, what is it? Uh G. IWWC >> [clears throat] >> 26-4, 508 West Wakefield Boulevard post facto application for causeway reinforcement tree removal, grading for walkout basement, new well, and other site improvements. Second. All those in favor? unanimous Okay. You want to make a motion to continue it also? Yes. >> Yes, you want to make that one? Yeah. I'll I'll make a motion to continue IWWC 26-4 to the next meeting. Second. Jamie seconded

059it. Yeah. Quietly. All those Okay. All right, I think we're good. I think you're clear what we need to do as far as for our next meeting. All right, perfect. Thank you very much. All right. Under old business, I'd like to move forward to item D, which is IWW uh 26- >> is going to come in 6, which is 57 East Lake Street. So, removal uh remove portion of the existing existing dock and attach three new 4 by 10 pieces. Oh, wow. Two polite people. Good evening. Just for the record, if you could Good evening. state your names and >> Tanika Belucci. Okay. >> I'm Joe Belucci. All right. Pick up Joe Belucci with the marina family. >> Okay. All right, perfect. All right. I remember this one from last month if we had any

060questions to the applicant for this. I think they provided the survey with it, right? Yeah, I'm working on getting it up on that screen. Yeah. I have it going right here. This is Yeah. Yeah, it looks pretty simple. Real small piece of property with an easement that runs to it. I can't go forward. I can't go back. Any of the board members have any outstanding questions on this one? Or I can't really see that well that way. I don't know you guys. No, they meet the littoral boundaries. They're removing a portion of the dock there. Right. Is this a floating dock that's going in there? Partially. Okay. Obviously be removed every fall. It was pretty cut and dry. Yeah. There's no disturbance, no How are you going to fasten it to the shore? Just to

061the existing Uh it's going to have anchor poles that are uh with two like that, but it's all removable. There are the poles with the feet. Is that how you do it? Yeah. >> All right. I think we're good. Any discussion? No. No. Kind of a simple All right. >> Yeah. We're pretty good. I'd like to make a motion to accept or I'm sorry, approve We have discussion. Um We're concerning neighbors. No, I'm not sure. Not a public hearing. I personally Yeah, I don't um We have not called a public hearing for this. Um I don't I don't know how we can uh So, the chairman at your discretion cuz you're leading it, accept comment, but it is not a public hearing. Okay. The the process to There's a couple of ways to force a

062public hearing. Um you know, there's intervene intervener status, but it's owned property and it meets the regs, so it's up to you. It's your discretion. I mean as wanting to be open with this board as possible and and neighbors, I'm willing to uh certainly listen to or accept uh you know, the neighbors on behalf of giving their um I guess opinions about uh about this uh existing dock. Um I think that's the right thing to do. Uh should we have them I I don't know if you just like to state your name, maybe. I mean, this is this isn't a formal It's not a public hearing. You know, we typically don't have a public hearing when somebody is replacing an existing dock with a dock that's the same size within a littoral boundary. But that's

063where I don't think it's replacing cuz it's not there in the picture. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Karen Tierney. Sure. Right next door at 61 East Lake Street. Okay. Okay. And I'm John Tierney. Okay. Co-owner. Lives in the same house. And I have Got it. All right. There's There's not an existing dock. There's an existing structure. There's a deck structure. Uh we've owned the property for 10 years and there's never been a dock there. There was a There was a structure dangerously unstable and and partially submerged when we first first bought our house. That's been gone for years. Right. And pieces of that wood were then placed onto the onto the groundwork and creating a creating a deck. Um and but there's been no uh there's been there's been no structure that's gone out to the

064lake in many many years. Do you feel that that structure would hinder um navigation? navigation safety in in this area. It is a very small property and if uh I mean we have pictures we can show you the the existing docks on either side actually converge towards the the end of where this dock would be. And so the space would be much smaller than you see there cuz they don't go straight out. Oh, so that you're saying this drawing is incorrect? Well, it doesn't show the It doesn't show our dock. I see. Uh Normally it wouldn't, right? Because it would be within a littoral boundary. We wouldn't typically have the neighbor's dock on it unless Unless the neighbor's dock is crossing the littoral boundary. >> Yeah, unless the neighbor's dock >> case we should probably

065look at it. Like we might want to continue it and go look at it. And and you can see for the the the way the way it is is there's there's a rock on the other side the farther side of our house. So, the only opportunity for us to dock is actually on the same side here. They're in close very close proximity to the proposed >> But, it's within their littoral. I mean, I want to clarify. It's certainly within their littoral boundaries. On a navigational from a navigational standpoint. >> Well, that is in our purview. It is our purview, but but is navigation for people across the whole lake or is it subject to a neighbor's navigation? I mean, navigational hazards are navigational hazards. By Yeah, no. I'm trying to understand this cuz I'm not

066I don't live on the lake or have a dock. >> is in our purview. Right. If if I may, Robert Manogue on lot 59. You're an additional neighbor. The littoral boundaries, according to section 380, state that the littoral boundaries come perpendicular off the seawall. That does not show them coming off perpendicular to the seawall. So, therefore, the bottleneck of the two docks my dock and their dock show like that. So, they have a bottleneck in between the two docks. What he's saying is that this is perpendicular this way, but Correct. not this way, which is how the seawall Section 380 states perpendicular to the seawall. So, the seawall is the blue line, Maryann, not not that angled line. The angled line is the property But, if this is the seawall >> Yes, I understand. Yeah.

067Okay. All right. So, but are we saying this is the littoral boundary? >> not according to section 380. >> And so, yeah. So, his point he's making is that this line should actually be angled this way. Correct. Yeah. So, our surveyor said So, the surveying may be wrong. So, we don't know. We've had this problem before with surveys. We have had this problem before. No. Google Earth is not It shouldn't be as accurate as a survey. But, now you just said your property surveyed recently. I have. Do you have your littoral boundaries located on your survey? I do not. My dock was existing when I purchased the property in 2004. Just out of curiosity cuz you're disputing his. That's all. May May I ask you a question? Yeah, no. We're just We're open discussion. I

068certainly like to um have the representative of the I'm sorry. We built the home in 1999. Okay. >> The reason why we bought the home was because the dock that was there. We had not lived in that house for 12 years. All right. My wife and I. But, there was a dock there. Okay? And the hinges held the dock. Sure. And the what happened it was held by black barrels underneath. Sure. Yeah. And came undone. The hinges came off. And for 12 years that we really haven't lived there, but we do go there in the summer and the spring. Um but um there was a dock there. We just never replaced it because we never lived there. >> Well, but one thing we should just let you know is that lots of properties have old

069docks on them. Many, many of the old docks on properties are not compliant with the dock and mooring regulations. >> Yes. So, when people come to ask them to be for them to be replaced, it's our job to make sure that they come into compliance. >> Okay. So, your survey shows something that seems to be compliant, but what we're hearing is that there may be an issue with how your littoral boundary is drawn. There's another dock that might be crossing the littoral boundary that's not shown on the other side. So, I'm going to recommend we continue this and we go look at the property. Um And call a formal public hearing. May May I ask? Sure. Sure, of course. The same surveyor that surveyed my property surveyed 59 Sleepy Street. Is that correct? Uh why

070not? Why not? Yes. Why not? All right, but he but he just said his survey doesn't have his littoral boundary on it. So, unfortunately, that doesn't help us. The littoral The littoral boundary is the in essence the boundary going out the hypothetical boundary going out into the lake judging from your property lines. So, there are setbacks from that. In the ideal world, we try to have setbacks. You know. Yes. So, explain to me so that I understand. What is the problem with me replacing the dock? As a matter of fact, I'm replacing the dock smaller than what it was there before. >> not be a problem. I think there may not be. I don't think we have enough information right at the moment given that you know, there were some other concerns of neighbors, which

071is very common in this on this board that that there are navigational hazards or that there are docks that are conforming on some neighbors' properties and non-conforming on others that these these issues tend tend to come up frequently. So, I I you know, you may be able to put this dock there. Um I don't think we have enough information to to go ahead with with doing that. I'd like you to be able to put it there cuz it makes sense from this drawing, but there may be some issues with some other littoral boundaries. And we need to We unfortunately always have to do our due diligence to enforce these dock and mooring ordinances. Where do we move to find out whether Winnett has the right littoral documentation? I suppose we could simply ask him to

072re-review it with you know section 380 and you know make sure that he filed the right methods. All right. So can we move forward with this if he reviews it with section 380? Right, and it comes to yes, this is this is right. These people are trying to make their property conforming. Okay? Yeah. So we we can say right now that like we can continue it to next week to next month so that they can uh we can talk to Weinert or we can turn around and say that we can approve it based on Weinert's I don't want to do that because clearly there's a it they have mentioned there's a potential navigational hazard. So I think we need to go put eyes on it. >> in another in another cove. All right, we made

073a mistake in denying that person who came in twice, all right, to do her property proper. Brought up to date and legal. We denied her. But this is this is not right. >> a public hearing we had many and we certainly had many >> to deny somebody who wants to bring themselves into compliance because someone next door is not. I don't agree with you. I mean it's fine, but I I don't agree. I think I think that if navigational hazards do fall under our purview and I do think we have a responsibility to go put eyes on the property to get, you know, clarity on whether or not the littoral boundary is being is drawn We've run into this before with surveys where the littoral boundary was not Well, I think the biggest thing here

074is the biggest thing here is littoral boundary. Yes. Navigational navigational hazards out the window today. Well, they can be out the window to you, but it's not out the window to me. >> No, and I understand. I think nav I think we have to be very careful with navigational hazards versus um inconvenience. And I'm I'm not >> Sure. accusing anybody of inconvenience. I'm just saying everybody has I know you guys get really I say you guys cuz I don't have a house on the lake, but people get really stacked along these um docks, and it it it can be tough. People have different sized boats. People buy bigger boats. Some people, again, have been never had been had to go around a dock that was, you know, not in the water for a bunch of

075years. So, then then it comes in the water and they're like, "Oh, well, this is a problem, right?" So, I think we're seeing a maybe a little bit of that here. Um but I certainly want, you know, people have you know, their their right to put in a dock on their property that meets our regulations, and certainly Sure. like I said, the navigational hazard is I don't want to say it's a can of worms, but I think we have to be very careful of the board to to make sure we're trying to enforce that without it being done by convenience or inconvenience to somebody. I agree with you. I wouldn't No, no. I wouldn't call a navigational hazard one if it were just certainly inconvenience. I also want to say that normally I would have

076seen the property before the meeting. My mother was sick and just died, so I haven't had the time to go see your property, but I will go see your property before the next meeting. And I think having Joe Whynot confirm the littoral boundaries is the most important thing cuz if he is accurate with that, you guys have every right to have that dock there. Yes. Absolutely. >> End of story. End of story. >> are the correct littoral boundaries, you are entitled to that dock. If they had to cross someone else's littoral boundary to park their boat, they wouldn't have the right to have their dock there. Is that the case? Yeah. You can't come across somebody else's littoral just to get to your thing. This is what This was the problem with the other cove.

077They were coming across the person who was trying to get approved. They were coming across her littoral boundary to park. Okay? She should have been approved. But we went through with the navi- navigational hazard thing. We denied them. This one here, I don't think there's anybody crossing any We don't know. He's stating that it's going to be the crossing littoral boundary because the littoral boundary is incorrect. If this littoral boundary is correct here, like it is, well, I I I I don't think there's a problem. Great. We have to see if the littoral boundary is is is correct. And to confirm that, we would really need to reach out to the and to the surveyor. >> surveyor. So, is that something we're looking at moving into, you know, uh continuing to continue this to our

078next our next meeting potentially with more information, or do we make that Does somebody want to make a motion to >> I'll make a motion to continue application IWWC 26-6 57 East Lake Street, um proposal to remove portion of existing dock and attach three new 4 by 10 pieces to our next regular meeting in June. What's the date? >> I think it We moved it to the 17th, didn't we? Yes. It's It's Wednesday, the 17th. Yes, it is. >> Wednesday, June 17th. >> Town Hall closes really on the 18th, which is a Thursday. Right. So, keep that in mind. May I May I ask or is this the time to >> Well, so >> about that. Does anyone want to second it? >> I'll second that motion. Okay. I want to keep Is there Would

079there be another motion? Um So, we have to approve or >> Yeah, I'm sorry. Um All those in favor? It would there also be a motion or interest of the board for that this should go to a public hearing? You know, we listen to comments. I I don't know if it really merits one. Uh I'm just proposing that to the board. I don't think it merits a public hearing. However, if the neighbors are totally welcome to send letters and drawings and whatever they want to us for consideration. >> Well, and so that's the thing. They can't because it's a public hearing. Again, at the meeting, if the chairman decides that he wants to take comments, that's fine. >> Which I did, right? I just said we would take comments, which we had that. So, if

080you want to take more written comments, I think you need to put that on the record now cuz otherwise they're going to come to staff and we're going to say there's no opportunity for public comment because it's I mean, it's a closed process between applicant and commission without public hearing. If I may ask, commission, Sure. Absolutely. would you reach out to the surveyor and have him put the other abutting dock on the plan so that a full view of exactly what's happening You would have to ask for that because someone has to pay for it. They have to ask the owner. As the applicant, you'd have to ask for it. But as the commission, shouldn't you be privy to that information We basically look for littoral lines of property that is not a But not

081the abutters. Not really the abutters because that is the littoral line. >> Cuz the littoral line's the littoral line. There's not two littoral lines on adjacent It's just one. Yeah. Just asking for a fuller picture so that everyone has the complete information, not part of it. Well, we're going to go look at the property. We would have if we had if the lateral boundaries are correct then we do have in a sense I don't want to say it doesn't matter what the neighbor what the other ones are but to an extent there's not a lot of focus on a neighbor's property, you know. with this We're drawing parallel lines where there are no parallel lines. That's the point of putting everything on the plan is to show the commission Right. >> complete picture. I think

082so. >> As I do feel like I that that I would like to I I mean I I think we we have to agree to that. Um that I would like to keep it open that if the if the neighbors wanted to write something or or submit a set of of plans that seem to um shed light onto this they certainly can. I'm not going to open up to a public hearing but I I think we can agree that that's the right thing to do that if they do want to submit your own survey that has um I know unfortunately surveys are expensive but that's how we the only way we can operate on the lake with look you know lateral boundaries. Um But it that that's something that that would be considered and could

083be submitted to you or by you um for our next meeting. I also want to understand the part of the reason I want to see this property is that it looks to me like there is a deck structure that cantilevers out off of the seawall. And if that's the case then we're over 50% frontage coverage on this application with structures. Well, it's something yeah, it's something we have to look at. >> at that too. Yeah, so that's right. That's an existing dock. I'm I'm going to pull up the area. >> So that would mean that it's not compliant. It has been It has been there since I bought the place. >> But that doesn't mean it's compliant. That's what I was trying to explain to you earlier. Is that when people >> compliant with I

084have no idea, but if they come in and they want to redo their docks, they have to make them compliant. Any new application requires us to bring the docks into Yes, yes, I'm just trying to explain to you how the how it works. Yeah. So this is Wait, no, no, he's asking a question. We're sorry. If I were to replace the dock when it came undone, you would have to come in for a permit. With that 12 years ago? Correct. And that's what I'm doing now. So what seems to be the issue? I I'm You know, I I I'm a little narrow head here. 12 years ago you would have had had to make your dock compliant with the dock and mooring regulations, but you didn't. So now, 12 years later, you have to make

085your dock compliant with the dock and mooring regulations. So there's no difference whether you did it then or now. Same process. And their docks are compliant? No idea, but if they come in for a new permit, for a new dock, their docks, if they were not compliant, would have to be brought into compliance. So there's a lot of docks that are non-compliant that are just there. Cuz they're old. Are their docks supposed to be there to begin with? We don't know. We don't know. And and mine is an issue because I want to do the right way. >> not singling you out. What year was the dock and mooring regulation put in effect? Uh '90 something. '93. So basically what what what's happened here is if your dock was in prior to '93, I bought

086in 1999, so it was already there. Let's say your dock was in prior to 1993, and it went out 60 ft. And you never came to us for any modifications, any fixing, or anything. You can keep your dock. The minute you come in and want to do something, okay? Hypothetically, you have a 60-ft dock. The minute you come into us and want to do something on your waterfront, and you go in with an application, your dock now has to come into compliance. But, if you never come to us, we don't have any grounds or means or method to make you change your dock. So, now you're in before us, and we have to make your dock Compliant to the regulations that we have to follow. We didn't make, you know, we didn't make them, you

087wrote them, but we didn't, right? >> There's sizes, lengths, widths, everything that you have to go by. Yeah. Yeah, I was told that has to be, you know, 25-ft property, which I own. Right. And has to be 10 ft on each side, and then I can have my dock. I think there's a very good likelihood that, you know, next month it'll be revealed that we'll be able to see that that it is you that it is conforming, that it it shouldn't be a problem. We just have to do a little more due diligence now. Um You know, we have we we have to confirm with the surveyor. Nothing. Okay. We'll reach out to the surveyor's staff Okay. and confirm this. I I'm sorry that I'm asking, but I'm No, don't worry about surprised about this

088process process right now. Yeah, most people are when they come in. Like they you know, I hate saying it, but like the guy the guy that came in on the last one started this whole huge remodel, and now he's he's floored that he needs to have a drainage plan, and um all these other erosion controls, and we're amazed that he didn't think of it, you know what I mean? But, it it's a big it it it's a it's a highly regulated, highly sensitive area, more and more houses on it on on the lake every every year, so it's it's it's a challenging environment for everyone to to work in and and try to enjoy their lake life, you know. Well, we might not follow the rules exactly. No, I know. I appreciate you. That's why

089you're here. That's why you're here. So, we understand that. We just have to do our due diligence. That's all. So, I think the motion stands. We're going to Continue. Continue to next month. We're going to reach out to the surveyors. If the neighbors want to send some information that may be pertinent, it may not be. We don't know. We'll We'll certainly take a look at it, but if if your dock conforms within your littoral boundaries and with what you have for waterfront meet those regulations, it shouldn't it shouldn't be a problem. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, man. All right, thank you. Moving on to um new business, we have uh one application, your IWW C 2610. Um the applicant is uh M.E. Carolan Sons for 537 East

090Wakefield Boulevard, and that is replacing existing dock, same size, same location. >> [laughter] >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman. The owner of M.E. Carolan Sons representing the Mickelsons on this dock that they're looking to repair. It's the frame is rotted out on it. I tried to provide some photos and everything I could. What do we got? New business? So, you just heard a good portion of that there. Obviously, you're going to have to conform to our new dock and mooring ordinances, which is a maximum of 10 ft wide and what 320 sq ft and uh 40 ft from the shoreline. And I'm going to need a survey with a lotoral boundary sign. All right. What do we got here? The survey you provided just the house across the street, right? Yeah, well we came into the

091office and it's kind of a funky thing with the road there. Um you know, who owns what across the street, you know. Was kind of up for debate, I guess. They've had the dock has been there since they've owned it, but you know, their property's across the street. Is there a deed with the property across the street? There's no property there. It's literally the road. So it's just the East Wakefield right of way? Yeah, wasn't there some and I'm trying to remember, there's some easement or something that they got for that dock originally, right? >> Yeah, they had come in like '93 and it was included in the paperwork. They had come in and and the commission had approved it in '90 two or '93, I believe. Maybe a little later than that. Um they

092had approved it there in in that location. I think I've seen a '99. Oh, okay. >> I saw I think I saw something for '99 in here quickly when I was reviewing it. Yeah, look at this. Here we go right here. Oh, '96, I'm sorry. Oh, no. No, '92-'99. So it was approved then and they put this down. >> '92-'99 and I think our our That was the same ordeal. We should have had the same Yeah, it was 93 that your ordinance was approved. Yeah. Yeah, there were some funny things going on then because we've also had our other friend over by Vaughn's Lane. That Remember something was approved there that technically didn't meet the Correct. >> So, I don't know what was going on in 99, but Oh, okay. So, it was approved. This

093was approved. Yeah. And it's being put right back in exactly what it is and what was approved. He's coming in. They're coming in again, but they're going right back for the original approval. Original dock the same size as what was approved then. New legs. Right. New legs attached to existing piers. We're not doing any We had a structural nothing thing, right? Is that what we're talking Is it Is that where we are? Yeah, I'm just going to walk Yeah, I mean I think we're pretty close there. I'm just going to look I'm just reading to you know new beams installed and deck built. Remodeled sections. Sections will be hoisted into place. Existing float and jet ski will be reattached. Work will begin in September. So, completed. Are you thinking for the Is there a So,

094well there's always some bit of a drawdown. So, Yeah, 3-ft drawdown. 3-ft drawdown is that what your plan is? The front legs they're reusing, so the back legs would be the only ones we'll just replace. I mean what was scaring me was property not having a deed or whatever. Right. So, but it was already approved through our commission at one time. So, this is all we're looking at is is How long ago was that? within the It's within the time frame of this dock and mooring ordinance. Yeah. So, >> within the time frame. That's what That's where I'm going. So, there's no need for us to chase all the way back to deeds and Well, they they do have an interest in a deed. I just I I knew it was there. I'm scrolling through

095finding it. There is an interest uh in an easement for access to Highland Lake over the northerly half of this portion uh 25-ft strip lying between Wakefield Boulevard and Highland Lake. So, they do have They do have a legal right to use that strip. Great. And now that we're going to go a little further here, we don't have a plan that actually shows littoral boundaries and stuff. They must have at that time had it because it's approved from our commission. Yeah, I mean, I think they I think we sort of took everything out of the folder and scanned it and put it in the system from from back then. Yeah, there's nothing. There's no survey and there's no littoral boundaries. Yeah. So, this has to be continued to the next month anyway. Yeah, this is

096an exception. This is an Right. So, two-step. >> or get anything else or I don't believe so. No, we'll we'll make a Or I can do it right now. I'll make a motion. I think we're in a good space spot with this. Motion to accept um application IWWC 26-10 uh 537 East Wakefield Boulevard to replace existing dock, same size, same location. I second. Second. And then I'll call the vote. All those in favor. Yes, unanimous. All right. Thank you very much. We'll see you next month. Thank you. >> good night. Yeah, I got chasing our tail there. And this was registered? Yeah. This is a registered dock. Yeah. In our And it was within this dock and the mooring ordinance. >> adopted them in >> Yeah, exactly. So, if that's Yeah. We dealt with one

097other one that had a little deck in the front of it that was over in that area. It had a deck in front of it. Didn't have really enough property. We had to get the town in, we had the survey, you know what I mean? Because they were going to do something different. Right. All right. Remind me of the situation again. So, yeah, it's it's going to be an acceptance anyway, uh but if you guys are willing to entertain to add an item to the >> This is under new business. Can you get an open deck from here? Yeah, what's what's the address of the property? 77 East Lake is the address of my client's house and then this is a property they also own which is just East Lake. Say good job. I'll forget.

098Come on. Okay, it does say that it was paid. All right, so yeah, they're they're fine. Yeah. So, this is an application under new business. >> that just came in, so it's new. And it would be under new business. You mean to need to make a motion to uh I sent not accept but to add this to our agenda. Will you give it a number here? Yeah, it's uh 2611. Okay, I'll make a motion to um entertain or to receive application 2611 um here in the meeting uh for the first time. Second? Does someone want to second it? >> I'll second. Okay. All those in favor? Thank you for being here. Yeah, no problem. If you could just state your name and your property and what you want to do and James Deck, I'm an

099attorney from Torrington. Okay. I'm on the Torrington ZBA. I've I've done land use for a while. This is my friend Vernon LeBlanc. Okay. He is the property owner. I don't know if I should maybe I should claim client. I don't know if you want to be identified as a friend on a public record. I'm fine with that. All right, we'll say we'll go with that. Um the I will say that coming tonight has been a great informative exercise because we came in basically to bring in the our application and see what kind of questions would be asked on uh on a new dock application. And we got to see a lot of those. So, I really appreciate the discussion that you've had. I won't keep you uh too long. Uh we have copies. We have

100a very unique property um and we'll we'll do go into all of it. Um I think it's if you go to the next um one that's scanned is basically a 15-ft wide long lot that is uh owned in fee by my clients um LLC. Um and it's you know, so it's going to require that the Wetlands Commission grant a waiver if they're willing. Um so, it will have to be a public hearing, I believe, based on your regulations. It looks like if there's a waiver being requested um that it would be um required if uh you know, that we send notice to all the abutting neighbors. Um and the um that's on the screen. And of course, the assessors uh the GIS lines are a little bit off of what the actual picture location is,

101but it's a long lot, right? That that allows for access to his property. So, it's a not a right-of-way, but it's part of his the property is in the green, right? The property is his home is in the green. Right. >> the actual property that we'd be applying for is that one. Yep, the lower one. So, it's Thank you for your uh It's It's a separate property, or though? It's a separately deeded property. >> That you own your client owns. >> Yep, and there are rights of way over that property for access and egress. Ingress and egress to all the properties along that road. >> [snorts] >> Um so, it's owned by If you think of it as layers, it's owned bottom layer is the fee, and and that's owned by my client, and then

102over laying that is an easement that allows people to access their houses. Um the um unique idea that we have, which we'll present at the public hearing, is that what you can't really see on that picture up there is on the top of the um lot, there is a it's all rocks. It's like a rock jetty. Okay. You can almost see it, actually. It's >> a shadow on the top corner there. Um yeah. Like right there. No, right to the left. And it goes out into the water. >> Into the water. So, that's that white Yeah. That white line is a fence. That's actually a fence. >> That's a fence. Okay. It is a large rock construction. >> So, our thought is to move if the dock is approved, the dock all the way against

103that north line. Okay. So, we would ask for a waiver of that littoral boundary. Um the other one would be met if we were able to do that. That's not navigable anyway, because there's a rock jetty there. He'd be putting a railing on that side of the dock, so it would not be usable from that side. And then um that would be And it's 4 ft wide. It would be a 4-ft wide dock. So, I did a little bit of um In general, just to get me just so I conceptualize a little bit better. I mean, I'll have to go to all of this would go to the site here. But, you're trying to get a dock in there or or ease access. You swam Do people go in the water there now or launch

104boats or anything or So, we're the only ones who have access to the water there. So, the easement is strictly for people who live on the lake to drive down my driveway. So, I own the entire road. So, coming off of >> So, I don't understand. So, other people can So, other homeowners can come down that road? >> Please pause because the I'm going to provide a title search that will kind of show the rights to the to the lot and everything. Right now, the way the easement is drafted, it says that all the lot owners on that road have um the right to access ingress and egress, which means to their property, away from their property. It doesn't mean that like >> No. Well, I mean, it's not um >> problem is with swimming.

105Right. And you showed us here. Mhm. Yeah. You're not going to If you're planning on putting a boat over there, it's right next to the swimming area. There may be a little bit less space So, the and I did a little bit of um quick eyeballing. These are 4 ft wide, I'm assuming. Yeah. So, the property goes from here to the wall, basically. Yeah. And we would have a dock that would go to here. Yeah. Um along that. And it would have some space. And yes, if there was a boat there, I guess it depends on you know, the size of the boat, what what will go in and then something that we can kind of address or or you know, and and that's kind of why I was happy to watch that prior application

106and to just be able to have this conversation to see what concerns there would be, you know. Um And can I ask one quick question? >> Sure. It stuck in my my mind. Um They were referring to section 380. Is that the same as 162? Cuz when I went on your website I pulled out your dock things on the website, it says section 162. It So, we've codified since then. So, 380 is the number in in uh general code. >> Yeah, okay. And it it looks like it's >> the same text, but yeah. I was just making sure cuz the guy was referencing the littoral lines were defined as perpendicular to the seawall that's really the shoreline. So, I know you know I wanted to make sure I wasn't reading the wrong definition when I

107was looking at Oh, I see. So, it's not Okay. It must be fun to deal with shoreline then. Um there is also um I know Ms. Maria, I saw that you were um Look, this is a much more clear. This is part of a survey. Mhm. This is Yeah, I see that. I have the survey. The lines on the GIS never quite perfectly match up with the Can I ask a question? Um has there ever been a dock here before? We don't know. That you know of? Okay. Do other people use it coming to the water? I'm just trying to identify you know we we dealt with a property a while back that had a a right of way friend friendship cove or unity cove? We used to call angry cove or tissue cove. We

108all we all had our own names for it. Anger cove. So, um Lakes can be tough. That may be different than this, but one of the issues we immediately had was you know with you know different entities using this this entry to the waterway and then problems with who is allowed to put a boat there, who's you know you have one person maybe mooring a boat. It turned into a a pretty troubling um They have a joint unity on their interpretation. >> Yeah, it it came into a as as it was a pretty troubling site. And uh so, I was just curious a little bit as far as like the right-of-way and how it's been used in the past which >> But even before you get to that, this is 15-ft wide, not 25-ft. >>

109All right. And >> the 25-ft come from, if I may ask? And sorry, and we need to have 10 ft because you have to have 10 ft uh from the dock to the littoral boundary on either side. So, if you have a 4-ft wide ramp, right, which is what the regulations [clears throat] call for, and then you have 10 ft on either side, you have 24 ft. You have to have 24 ft of frontage to be compliant. >> So, with the regulation that you have in place, if this matches your 380, it says that should an applicant not own sufficient shore front to meet the 10-ft buffer requirement from the littoral boundary line of an adjoining property, the applicant may apply to the commission for a waiver. >> You you can apply for a waiver.

110It doesn't mean it can be granted. >> not. No, no, no, I agree. I know that. >> know that. We know we have the ability to get a waiver. That's why I thought it's going to be a public hearing and it's exactly why Yeah. Yeah. It would very much be a public hearing. And I'll have a some title work in there. I've done tons of title work on the property. I've I just have to put it into a digestible format. It's a lot of bits and pieces right now of deeds and old deeds and how it got to this property. >> What is the total frontage? 15 ft. >> 15 And that's why it's unique. It it it The idea is that I don't know how good my artistry will be, but you know, the

111the idea for littoral boundaries, I assume, is to preserve the rights of neighbors in the navigability of their property next door. It's to give a little space. In this case the littoral boundary for the northern if if that's you know the northern part isn't as much of an issue because that's not navigable anyway. There is and you'll see that when you go to the when you go to the property that's a pile of rocks. A big long jetty pile of rocks that nobody should ride their boat on. Oh I I can't imagine. >> have come to us for applications to actually break apart rocks in in order to in order but but just so you know that that is something people can do. And the people that own the property to the north they'll get

112notice of it and everything and and they do have a dock. It is not even on this picture it's much further up. So so we'd be you know I don't think they've tried to put their boat there anyway. Um and Are you looking at the total boat or you're just looking for a swim access or whatever you might sense whatever you can get? >> concern right now is that I have three small children. The youngest is three. I have a 10-year-old and a 12-year-old. Three was a surprise. And pleasant surprise. And the boys they love to fish. So as you can see like the water line there we're kind of like recessed in. So what they're constantly doing is walking on the neighbor's wall and there's some stones. There's like standing on these wet stones

113and they're literally casting into the water. They're catching a fish or they're not they're getting hooked and then they wind up on the neighbor's property and they're on the dock to the the south or they're on the seawall to the north. And I mean honestly it's dangerous. Um I'm not going to tell them to stop fishing. I'm not trying to get my neighbors upset either. Um is there potential for a boat in the future? Sure. Is that my main concern? No, it's not. Really, more so than anything, it's for the kids. Um, we have paddle boards, we have kayaks. Which you put in the water now through there. We put it in the water and again, it's dangerous. They're getting in the kayaks, they're flipping the kayaks, they're you know, it's honestly, it's a safety

114concern. >> That might be a skill issue. So, what you're saying is you want the Marion to get my thing right. You want to put it in here. Correct? Yep. All right. This part of the north is where you want this also. Yep. >> Yep. All right, you own that. So, access you can't stop their access over here. No, so there's a fence there. >> access is only for cars, is what you're saying. Yeah, I'll and I'll produce the title report that being it's ingress and egress. It's not just cars. >> access for swimming. Nothing down there. I'll make absolutely certain, but my initial reading of all the title is >> for swimming and stuff like that. You're certainly not driving a car down there and accessing anything. Why wouldn't you deed part of this

115to that, so you have frontage to your dock and your boat? So, all my neighbors here in this community, so um you come down the road and then it's only our small community right there. Right? Everybody has their own dock. So, everybody has water access, everybody has >> Well, this is where I'm going. If if it's your small community and you own the road Yeah. I'm not trying to add a lot of aggravation to this. But, if they're not using it, they all have their own docks and stuff like that, why wouldn't you go and say I'm going to cut it short. You got your access to your houses and everything. You end up getting the width of that plus your 15 ft. You come more into compliance. Um >> Wait, are you saying there's

116another 15 ft that I'm missing? He owns Marion. He owns this road coming down through there. >> I understand. I thought that's where he was trying to put the dock. No, so those lines are a little bit off because of the way that the GIS matches up. So, yeah, just 15 ft. Okay. I wish I wish you would have corrected me and some more feet there. I got Yeah, if I was I was like wow, Gary's telling a different story than the one I thought I heard. >> is essentially shifted. Everything is shifted. Yeah. The GIS the GIS overlay is wrong. If that line don't cut through this guy's I don't know that white line But, it's still only 15 ft, right? Yep. The road is 15 ft wide. Yep. The accident now will never

117in essence it seems like that will never change, right? We're we're always going to be dealing with 15 >> suggest I did suggest for the record after hearing the first application of my client buy all of the abutting properties. Um so, we but he he didn't seem to appreciate that idea. He's got to he's got to call your accountant. All right, it can't happen. Yeah, so So, I mean here is I mean Thank I I just we came into kind of presented. We know it's unique. We know it's weird. We know it's small. Um it does predate the regulations by many years that lot size, you know, the 15-ft wide lot. Um the And when I read these regulations, it it says if you own you know, anyone who owns a lot with access to

118the body of water, it doesn't say a 25 So, 25 ft does that come Is that back into by saying 10 10 and then the five in the middle? Or is that an actual like requirement in this regulation that says 25? Cuz everybody says 25, but I don't see it in here. It's just a question. Yeah, I don't I don't know if it specifically spells it out. I don't know. >> know. I'm I don't know myself to tell you the We should go right to 25 Since we're just having an open conversation here, would some um access into it like I said a steps that go into it be an alternative to a dock. Would that be helpful for getting in and maybe getting in and one of the things you mentioned was that you

119know getting into boats was tough and I mean would that be an alternative essentially that you something you know we have other place where there's just a some stairs to walk down into the water. Right. Would would that be? I think the goal is to get to like a deeper part of the water for up front there and you'll see you know feel please go and and check it out the property but you'll see it's it's very shallow super shallow at the top. It almost looks like the road like they just want to drive right into the the lake I don't suggest that not with a I don't know if you saw that thing with Tesla in the news recently with the went right into the lake and didn't work there way but the Um

120you know I think the the reason that we thought we we try finally application was really because yes it's it's we're looking for a waiver of a littoral boundary from the commission the I think those are probably not granted very often the this is a bit unique in that that rock wall that rock jetty sort of to me look like it kind of removed that side from the equation in a sense and that's why we tried to push the dock all the way against the wall. >> something navigational >> navigational interfering with other people's uses um you know and and then again the idea was to put a railing on that side to so he's not using that side so nobody's using that side of the of it we push all the way over we

121wouldn't be in the other guy to the south in his littoral boundary at all we just be against the one where there's kind of room a dock and no and no interference. Wouldn't it make I mean, go to that neighbor. You know you're going to have to have a public hearing, but go to that neighbor and get a letter from them that they have no problem with it being on their littoral line. >> That's the You do have to get You do have to get an an engineer plan. You know what I mean? Especially with this, showing your littoral boundaries going out into the Survey, right? You have to have a survey. There has to be a survey of the littoral line? Or cuz I was going to take a ruler And no, that's not

122going to work. Okay. I I just thought I'd throw it out. Cuz everybody's got a ruler. They're all different. You see that survey was done by John DeCara. I Yep. I think this I think this justifies us No, the original So, this survey just references that? This was done by Of course, yeah. The original was Yeah, he's passed away. Um but I was going to say if it wasn't DeCara survey, I know Tim Wiley. He's right over here. You can still get a hold of him and he has access to all the files. And even in >> I called him like 30 times. He never called me back. Sounds about right. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, you do. So, the engineers are tough right now. We lost Steve Latorre from first year through that beginning and

123you know, very few surveyors right now. Yeah. So, it's a real problem. But okay. So, I thank everybody for their time. Well, we wouldn't would we have accepted it? We have to accept it. Yeah, we have to >> have to make a motion for a public hearing. >> Yes, we do. And then All right, so I'll do that. >> Yeah, yeah, do it. Yeah. I'll do the motion to accept IWWC 26-11. That's correct, right? 26-11. >> Yes, yes, it is. And I guess it is to install a right. Install a new dock on the owner's property. Right. Second. Do you have a second? Uh public hearing. We got a public hearing? >> Yeah, put put it in the same uh Same motion. Same motion. Okay. And we will require a public hearing on this public

124interest. Right. Prior to the June 17th meeting. June 17th. June 17th meeting, yeah. For public interest. You got a second? Second. Second. Second. And you're you are clear going ahead that we would need a formal survey, right? That that we would need to show the littoral boundary. >> sure they draw the littoral boundaries correctly. We use the code method here. Coming into it if you're if you if you were going to work out some kind of arrangement neighbor, be best to do it for that, you know, for that meeting moving ahead cuz it may push you back otherwise it might push you back another month. So. Yeah, my my biggest concern will be trying to get that surveyor to survey in in that window, but we'll do we'll try. I mean, I'll Well, we're in

125a this is a unique property. It is a variance, you know, don't really deal with a lot of variances If you don't think you can get a survey in time and you know that you're going to start a ticking clock if we accept this application tonight, would you rather not have us accept this application until you talk to a surveyor and you know when you can get one? They've got what? 65 days or 90 days? 65 to open. >> Yeah, but I mean, it's taken me a year to get a surveyor, sorry. Well, I mean, this is an existing map that's done. You have the other you have is an existing one that's done, like you said. All you got to do is sit at the door before they come back. >> [laughter] >> We

126usually catch them around 7:00 a.m. >> Okay. >> [laughter] >> You got 65 days to open the hearing and they can they can request an extension of an additional 65 >> Yeah, fair enough. So, yeah, so they've got to that's 4 months 4 months to get this resolved. So, So, so you could set it for June 17th. You could set it for your July meeting date if you prefer. And then if they're not ready with a survey by July, they can ask for an extension. We'll just table it. Well, we put it in there for the 17th already. So, All right, leave it there and if they have to continue it, they can continue it. Yeah, exactly. >> a survey or my tears. Okay, perfect. Okay, great. Um, okay, did you I know we got

127the first and second. Did we actually hold a vote on that? >> sorry. Okay. All those in favor? Good. Thank you. All right, thank you guys. Don't stay up all night longer, okay? Yeah, a few things to do. Hey Maryann, As you probably know, the Keep's died. Uh, the daughter/ Thank you. slash whatever you they're still trying to get those data files to other surveyors. >> like bumping into walls, right? Yeah. Right. I'm still exhausted. I got the phone number. Try to put it all together. All right, thank you. Only till noon. All right, okay. Have a good night, guys. Good night. I like you guys take paper submissions on the CPA. I don't know how you do it with Uh, we're No, we don't do paper. We're trying to kill paper here, too. No,

128no, no, I need you to leave now. Go. >> [laughter] >> I'm a paper person. All right, moving ahead to Asian uh, actions. We have Asian approvals for IWW C 26-7. Um USA Hauling 185 Torrington Road. Yep. Uh so, basically they want to put a fence in on the edge of the Greenway trail >> Yep. to block their situation from people. Uh it's in the upper review area, so it required uh an application and approved by agent for >> How tall did they put the fence in? Uh if I remember correctly, that one is oversized, so over 6 ft, so it does require building permit. So, so the people walking will see the trash cans? That's the idea, yeah. >> Yeah, but everybody driving up and down, coming into town, leaving town, coming to visit

129town, they can see all the dump and all the I would say you're just looking forward. Don't [laughter] be looking at the right side. Is there a suggestion in there? Keep your eyes on the road. >> Cuz you know, nobody wants to see my trash can, but we can see everybody else's. >> your eyes on the road. That's it. >> road. Yeah, all right. All right, so moving on to uh >> [laughter] >> Okay. Uh next is IWWWC 26-8. Uh was a replace existing driveway in the same location with permeable pavers. Uh it was a simple job, agent approval. Okay. Simple job, you ought to stop by and All right. Simple job for review. Okay. There you go. It's not that simple, is it? Uh next uh you'll notice DM Hawk is on here for

130a couple applications. We're constantly striving to make our driveway application situation better. Uh and Hawk is a good contractor who actually reaches out to us and tries to talk this thing through. So, you'll see one was an agent approval because we decided that required a full application. Uh so, that's 26-9 at 628 East Wakefield Boulevard. Uh and the next is an as-of-right application. Uh for those, uh it's in the review area, but it's really just sort of by right maintenance, no major issues. So, that's how There is a re-grade existing gravel. But no excavation. >> Right. >> So, So, there's not even laying of Okay. >> No Right. So, under the driveway application regulations, that's really considered by right maintenance, so it matches up with an as of right maintenance. Okay. Uh next one is

131Bridge Street, Willow Street intersection improvements. It's a town project. Bart sent us the plans to review. No drainage work, nothing done on the banks, it's all up above. So, again, as of right application and approval. Reduction, I think, in overall impervious coverage there. >> I think so. They're narrowing up some of those some of those intersections. Some of that stuff's outside the upland review anyway. They're going to keep it how it as it is? No, one way going up Bridge Street or whatever. The one way was rejected. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Vociferously, if you were at that meeting. I saw 13 people Right. Um and then 139 Waite Field Boulevard under violations. Uh yeah, that is still an active court case. It got kicked to June sometime, I think. So, when there's a new update,

132we'll Okay. give it to you. July 7th is the court date. >> July July Oh, Gary would know, yeah. Yeah, he's on the hook there. I'm signed up for the email. >> [laughter] >> And then under under communications, we should We don't have anything for that, correct? Not that I know of. And then under under under other business, I wanted to just I know everybody's probably getting ready to get out of here, but I wanted to go over that Thank you for bringing up a couple some pictures. So, we have the that Main Street property that's been excavated, that's an old um I'm trying to remember what that was. Oil tank Whatever it was, the the site, I'm not sure, but there there was a a bunch of old concrete walls there. It's It's right

133on the river. Yep. And this is certainly one that, you know, I've heard you many times say we need to really start looking at these other ones and and I absolutely agree with that and um I think some people maybe went to that site, they came in, said there was going to be some remediation work there of um you know, they didn't get a permit initially, they pulled out the bridge going across it. Um one of the issues that was brought up was uh something to do with uh that it it it was dangerous having the bridge there. Um When the bridge was there, there were at least some fences around it. Now you've just got a big drop-off, but as you can see from the picture, there should be a bunch of pictures of

134>> Yeah, I'm trying to get my hands on them. Sometimes Outlook fights me. That's not really a great I mean, I don't want to show it as a drop-off as a hazard. I don't know if that's really I mean, it's all this is under purview cuz it's right on the water. You know, the main thing at this site, we talked to them about cleaning up um all the debris that was dropped down below it. And it some of it is in the actual river, but as the river comes up in the spring, this area, if you're looking to the left from I wish the other pictures came up cuz you really see it, but you know, the river flows through that All right. Yeah, you got a few more here. That's the top of the

135wall. Um But down below, there's quite a bit of, you know, concrete that was left over. >> over our conversation with him. He was supposed to track across the reach over the excavator hand it to >> Right. Right. So there is a lot Nothing None of that has been done. And as I look at it more and Jeff looked and maybe may agree with me that you know, there's quite a bit you know, of real reme- it's a tricky thing. It's got to be pulled up out of there, but my concern is what how they're going to do it. We didn't really talk about any means and methods, and this is a classic example of right on the water. If this was on the lake, we'd be under heavy scrutiny. Unfortunately, we got this one

136late, but that is riverbed. There the river comes through there in the in the spring. I mean, maybe you could make make an argument that it's only riverbed for part of the season, but I don't know if I quite buy that. But anyway, >> in the review area. >> Yeah, it's still in the review area, and it's a it's really a mess, and I don't know if it did we really need to review it and say is this something that needs more in a sense more of a plan and more of a an engineering environmental assessment of it. It's a it's a tough thing, but that nothing's been done is certainly alarming. Now, I'm a little concerned like, okay, well, if what is going to be done and is someone going to drive eventually a

137Bobcat down there and try to scoop it all out? I don't know. I mean, >> much of it can be removed by hand? All of it can be removed. I mean, >> how they do it. Yeah. I'm just I'm just concerned that there's really not a one, nothing's been done, and two, we do we really have that good of a plan? >> We clarified to them in the in that meeting Right. >> anything in the riverbed had to be taken out by hand. We were there. Each one of them said to me the message was going to be was it was uh We were on a Zoom meeting, right? You Right. >> Right? His brother was here the first time. He came the second time. >> You're reaching over, hand picking everything inside, and then

138cleaning up and going out. As far as railings and stuff, I have nothing That's not Yeah, yeah, absolutely nothing to do with this. I only brought that point up >> Securing Securing the site and getting rid of the debris that can wash or go into the brook. Afterwards is part of this. And he has to be back. Right? I mean, I I don't know where he's going. >> is not done. Right. Right. So, I think he's got to I think he's got to get to him and say, "Listen, you know, and in all honesty, we're going into into uh June, July, where the water's going to be way down. Now, you can clean it up good. You know what I mean? With the rains and stuff we've had and the river coming up, we're better

139off doing it in June or July anyway. >> Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. >> they're going to hand pick it and then kind of, you know, clean the way back a little bit. Maybe stabilize like where you have, you know, you have a wall there, but where you have slopes and stuff where they've taken the debris out together, throw some seed down or stabilize it or something. >> It's fairly It doesn't look too bad. I don't know if you've been to it. >> been there. I've been on it. I was So, I did meet the uh contractor doing the work there before they got started. Uh we talked about it. They are going to be installing a fence on the top of the wall for safety. Again, out of your purview, but I mean, I was there

140and just Yeah, I had to throw it out there. Uh all the trees that they did cut down, uh they agreed to leave the chips, you know, for some erosion control. Sure. Um I was scheduled to meet him again on site to go over clean up of the riverbank. Unfortunately, I had to cancel the meeting. He had a death in a funeral and whatnot. So, we haven't rescheduled that yet and I stopped by occasionally. They haven't been back yet either. So, >> Right. it's not like they're working without direction, but yeah, that's what the next conversation is. Now that the trees are all down and you can see everything over the side, we got to get that cleaned up. So, as far as moving ahead, I just I just I wanted to open a discussion

141about it. Is there something that What else you think there's anything else that needs to happen with that or we need to just get them on site and discuss? Right. You know, that's what it comes down to. So, yeah, if got to go out there and, you know, carry it out by hand and buckets if they can't reach everything, then that's what they're going to need to do. Where do you think the town is failing in our in our This is a loaded question. See if you can answer. Sounds like it already. Yeah. Where's our town failing in our in our follow-up? In our getting done. What This is a good example to me of not of it not ever going too far before there was ever any permitting. That it right? I mean, it

142immediately got started. >> Once we enforce something Once we say we want Where's our enforcement? Where where are we falling apart? Is Is it the And it's And I'm not sure I'm throwing this dart at you cuz you only have You can only do so much. You know, you're the zoning guy and this and that. Is it Is it the town doesn't have money to put somebody on to to enforce some of these things and be out in the streets? >> Sounds about right. Uh There was a request in this recent budget for an additional enforcement body. That request was denied. Right. Uh so, we you know >> and and that's the conversation we had earlier. You know, we can only expect so much out of out of Jeff. My conversation was with even Steve

143on that little thing on West Wakefield. And my conversation with Steve I told him I said you can't go marching down Steve has the feeling that Jeff works for us. You know what I mean? He He's He's our enforcement agent and this is it, you know? And it's un- And it's unfair. It's unfair to think that way, you know, but we need more enforcement somehow. You know, somehow >> Did you attend any of the budget workshops? Did I believe I did. >> to any of the budget meetings? The only thing I do with the budget is go over it down there. >> [laughter] >> The other two You and the I shouldn't have said >> [laughter] >> Nobody got what they needed. I know that, Marian, but I'm just saying how do we How do

144we come up come around it? Well, I made a suggestion, but nobody really took it up, which is that there are nine of us. And each of us take an area and we drive around once a week. That's That's all well and good, but no, no, I I I took that at heart, definitely. I don't I mean, um like I said, I I I try to get around a little and and and and really look at some >> But like we just each take an area. We all sort of look at the map, we agree, "I'll do this this week, I'll do this, I'll do that, I'll do this." And we go look. Really, is that going to be part of us part of our program's stuff? I'm We don't have We don't have the

145staff to do I have been doing it. He's blunt He's a blunt getting a blunt of a problem. When I go by and I see something right or wrong, it comes I I call Steve cuz he's a chairman. I'm not going to come running to Jeff. I call Steve and it's been on a few of them and it just has to go to Jeff. And some of them, and I'm going to tell you the truth, some of them one of them, especially, all right, was the corner of Forest Ave in West Wakefield Boulevard. That's a town project. Now, for me to sit here and say I'm going to enforce Joe Blow over here on his environmental problems and his erosion control when the town doesn't step up to the plate and do it them god

146themselves, we got a problem. Yeah. Okay? And I took pictures of that and that went to Jeff. Jeff got in touch with with Jim and it just did not get rectified for 4 weeks. Then I tracked it and finally something got done. That's wrong. Pictures of dirt coming down going in the catch basins. How do we enforce it on everybody else when we don't take care of it in our own house? I think you're starting taking the first step at least by getting involved with it and documenting it, right? I mean, that that is that is something. >> right back to Jeff and Jeff he's being contacted with What happened there? Did they not have the staff to deal with it? So, when I brought that up to Jim, uh he said one side was

147stabilized already, so that self funds it could have been better move. The other side though did need to be readdressed and Yeah. Well, the problem with that is too and I'm going to go a step further than that. That was a subcontractor and he's the man responsible for it. Okay, not Jim. Subcontractor is and that's no different than Holland Holland Street up there whatever the hell Holland Beach. >> the sub hired by? >> When is this going to be finished? Who is the sub hired by? The town? Public Works. Yeah, well but they they put it out to bid. So they're still like the ones that are the prime contractor on it, right? >> Yeah, they're contractors finishing this up. Yeah. You know and and I know where this is going to go and if

148you talk to Jim, yeah, we're trying to take as much back ourselves to keep the pricing down. You know the price is down and everything to that nature and that's understandable. But if you're going to take that back, take the responsibility with it. Yeah. You know, it's just and the only reason I'm getting a little upset with it is it's been brought to my attention that way. Mhm. Okay, that way. It's where they why should we do it? You know, I just sent the other one over there with a little Right? That went to the the thing where the garage in front of the house on West Wakefield Boulevard. You went over and looked at it. How dumb was it even the way they put it in? They're stopping the water from go from the

149road from going into catch basin but they're not stopping the mud from going into catch basin. Yeah, what >> It's all rectified now. As of yesterday it was. I I think one of the things that we should be doing what I I keep hearing catch basins and what we need to be doing I think going forward in the plans too is making sure that every basin within 200 ft of the project has a silt sack. Absolutely. And then there's the main and there should always be silt sacks. The Forest Ave probably should have silt sacks on the way. Yes, yes. And it's a shame that you have to that you have to No. put this expensive burden on on the homeowner. You know, they found me to have to put it in, but nobody's nobody's

150living by the rules. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You know, if he's living by the rules. But I I I I think um Can we move this along? Sorry, I'm so tired. All right, guys. No, no, we'll definitely move it along. I just I brought, you know, that that conversation kind of got sidetracked a little bit, but >> We had an Irish wake last night and I got to get to sleep. >> you. So, um but anyway, I'm glad we had a discussion at least about the property on Main Street there a little bit and um So, under other business, I don't think, you know, Department of Public Works, Jeff isn't here. You know, my name's on on that, but he's really taking it over. Um Water Sad Association Liaisons, I think we're Jamie

151has some stuff. Yeah, I got a bunch of stuff. All right, we're going to do it. Me, too. Say it loud for for them on YouTube. Um I saw in one of the attachments at the Board of Selectmen um meeting that the Marine Patrol started on May 15th. Okay. Um the Highland Lake Mix and Mingle is at Little Red Barn on June 5th from 5:30 to 7:00. Okay. The annual meeting is July 11th at the Franciscan Center on Oak Street at 9:00 a.m. My birthday, so you should come. Big party? Always a big [laughter] party. The boat parade is July 25th at 7:00 and the it the theme is America 250. All right, very good. And then there is the inaugural 50/50 poker run, which hold on. May 30th. Yes, May 30th. Rain date May

15231st. Okay. Um and you can pre-purchase your $20 poker run cards via Venmo, check, or cash. Each card has a grid of 13 rows, two through ace, and four columns, one for each suit. Five designated dock locations along the shores. Just look for the red and black poker decorations. And then you can pick a card from Okay. >> the dock and fill in your your chart. After all the boats have completed by 4:00 p.m., they'll tally the results and the three highest hands split 50% of the pot. First is 25%, second is 15%, third is 10%. In case of a tie, the prize money for the tied positions will be combined and divided equally. Winners will be notified by phone that evening. Thank you. All right. >> And the other 50% goes to the Watershed

153Association. >> Okay, excellent. It's a fundraiser. Yeah, it's a fundraiser. All right. Um and the Highland Lake sign that got destroyed by the rogue pickup truck I did see that. >> has been replaced. We never did find out who did that, did we? >> Thank you. And then I think the only other thing I I don't think we're going to have a discussion about wake boring report this evening, but that's all in the Just going down through this. That's all in the all in the works, correct? That sense. Like There's nothing really new that we're discussing with that right at the moment, correct? Not not at this Right. infrastructure. All right. Well, I would like to I will make a motion to adjourn our May 21st meeting. Second. Second. All good. In favor. Thank you.

154Good job, Russ. >> Good night, lovely people. Good night. Thank you, everybody. I told I told him to get out. Yeah, we don't get They don't