001Turn the mics on everybody. Sorry. Did you send that to me you said? So I'd like to call >> hit the edge of this. There you go. It turned green, you're on. I'd like to call the April 28th rescheduled charter revision commission meeting to order. Holly, would you start with yourself, please? Sure, Holly Cassidy. Sandra Strubhar. Paul Marino. Katie Perez. Sheryl Heffernan McGlinn. Louisa Martinez. Mark Lampugnana. Uh just a note for everybody here at the table, mics are on and it is recording. Um I don't know if we have anybody watching from home, but Bill Hudak is he requested this. So now pledge of allegiance, please. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
002for all. Uh number three is agenda review. Anybody see anything or not see anything that we needed? Okay, with that said, before we open it up and start talking with the town manager about budget timelines, I'd like to try to get at least three of our items either moving or of our four items we were originally charged with, I'd like to get as many as we can agreed upon tonight that will move it so that way I can send them to Kevin Delagrange and we could start the language the language that would be needed our report and the language that will need for November to get started. So I'd like to try to move those. And then the other three that were added here, the registrars, the fire department and inland wetlands, with that if
003we think we thought the last time they were worthy, if we still think that way, I would like to invite them to Monday night's meeting to give us more information. If that's okay with all of you. All right. Okay, so we'll move on to the the budget and Holly Paul, I I think you know we've been using this uh format here. So we're just going to have it here for for everybody to see. Basically, it's about moving the budget timelines and you've had some discussion with Sandra and Holly. We had some discussion here and I think some of what we're seeing with the state and their announcement today tells us some more things about timeline. So All right, you're up. chairwoman tonight if the board also allowed Tom Hershkowitz Sure. Right now is this obviously
004an integral part of the budget. We did work this afternoon. We prepared a handout as well. I think real world examples helps walk through what we're trying to propose to all of you. Paul, just turn your mic on. Oh. What we're trying to propose to to you to see if we can push it forward is to try and get more referendums in in in case the first one fails with hopes that we could get a budget before July 1st. Right now, what you'll see on the first page is the way that that the current charter dictates us to go through it. You'll note that the way it's currently written you could really only have two budget referendums before the July 1st start of the new fiscal year. The second page we're looking to tweak a
005couple of things and in an essence everything happening prior to, you know, the March 15th is when the town manager submits the budget to the board of selectmen, board of assessment appeals, no changing there. The two public hearings, one at the board of education does, one that I do, then, you know, potential special meetings, you know, up until eight well where it goes is April 19th would be the board of selectmen would make their decisions by then. We then would put memorialize is that the annual town meeting would be the first Tuesday in May. Then what we would say is um the second Tuesday in May would be the vote. And then as you go down, potentially if the budget fails Wednesday May and we're basing it off of if the charter were to be
006revised. And I made a big presumption that these changes would take effect immediately. We we know some troubles that happened in South Windsor. We we made the assumption that if it's voted on in November, these changes would take effect immediately and in fact this would affect the 28 budget. So going through first referendum on May 11th if the budget fails, May 12th to May through Thursday, May 13th, the board of selectmen could hold special meetings. Then we would go back to our second town meeting on May 18th, then the following vote on May 25th. So there's a week between the town meeting we have to publicize and then obviously then the referendum. And it keeps going, but under this schedule we could potentially get four referendums in next year before July 1st with the last
007referendum being on June 29th. Yes, you're not optimistic. I'm very optimistic, I usually am. Oh, in terms of budgets? Yes. Well, I've been here for two years, one budget went down three times, one passed. Who knows where we go this year, but it allows a little bit and you know, I'm watching budgets all around the state right now and seeing that, you know, towns are already going up for the second bite of the apple next week. We haven't even gotten our first bite of the apple yet. I know uh chairwoman Perez and I met. State funding is is obviously a big variable in all of this. And as much as I wanted to try and wait for state funding at the best case scenario in a short session speaking of right now as a matter
008of fact, we may know a new town number by May 2nd. Worst case, May 6th at midnight. So, anyway, you when Tom and I spoke, any way of slowing it down, I don't think the state's ever produced a budget anytime before that. Which that's broken, and I don't think any of us are going to take that on. I think they should, you know, change the way they do budgets. So, we have to act in just what we know. What we do know is it becomes a very tough burden on the town if we don't have a fiscal budget before July 1st. We start We saw this 2 years ago. We had to send out more vehicle bills, and then we had to do a re-up on it. A lot of people got confused. We could
009potentially get a couple more votes in if a budget fails. Um it would be helpful. I agree that the time in between referendums needs to be shortened. Um I guess the we the town meeting used to be the first Monday Monday in May. And then it moved to the second Monday in May. And now you want to move it back to the first Monday in May. Or it's Tuesday. Well, it's a Tuesday vote. Essentially the same thing. First week in May to second week in May to have more information, and now we're back to the first week in May. Yes. Um and then what I would like to do and and and this may be even a bigger talking point is one of the biggest questions that the town manager's office receives is when is
010the vote? And I let them know I won't know until we go to town meeting. We may be one of the few towns that actually vote on when the actual referendum will be held. A lot of other towns actually say this is when the vote is. Um right, wrong, or indifferent, potentially better voter turnout cuz everyone will know we're we're suggesting um the second Tuesday in May is the vote. That's the first vote. And we can start, you know, advertising that whenever we start talking budgets. But, you know, this year in particular, that has been one of the biggest questions is when's the vote? And, you know, unfortunately, I have to come back with the news we'll we'll we'll know on May 11th. Um and it's not up to a board of selectmen. It's not
011up to the town manager. It's up to the citizens. Um so, um yes. So, to answer the chairwoman's question, um man, I wish I was here when it was the first Monday in May, but I wasn't. We are suggesting we move it back cuz potentially if we're going every 2 weeks, that allows us to sneak in a couple more referendum. Not even sneaking, we'll get a couple more referendums in if we can. Could you explain though Well, it'll be two questions here. One, having a Saturday Saturday vote, people have always claimed for people that are um own property here in town. Um the people that own property here in town, some own it in their own name, some own it in LLCs, some own it in trusts. And we know that LLCs and trusts and
012whatnot can't vote, but there seems to still be a substantial number of people. So, would we be putting in here that the town clerk will open the office on Saturday mornings for absentees, especially if we're moving the town clerk to an appointed position? You've brought up an excellent point. So, if the town clerk becomes a hired position, reports to the town manager office, I I think you you should say that the Saturday before that Tuesday vote, the town clerk shall be open. And and I would I would put hours, you know, cuz you of course when it's hired, they're held to a different accord, you know, but I don't want to just tick a box, "Oh, we open for 5 minutes." That's not the intent of what we're going to be looking to do. I
013would say what needs to be open from 8:00 to 4:00 on a Saturday. Granted, I'm not the one working, but um I will say I think we need to do a better job advertising absentee ballots as well. Those individuals, you know, that may live at the lake or come up on the weekends, they may be able to grab an absentee ballot, but um early voting seems to be a very popular item here in Connecticut. So, we should embrace it and and put in the charter if it goes that the town clerk shall and and the word shall shall be open the Saturday before the Tuesday vote. So, the other thing that's always um a stickler, at least I've um had the experience of is there are certain um public notice time frames that have to
014be out there. And there are certain people that want the budget ahead ahead of time. And there are certain publishing dates um that have to be adhered to. So, being on a Tuesday and then going to Saturday, how do you envision public notice? How do you envision absentee ballots being ready for uh you know, that week because the vote will be that Tuesday. Normally, they have 2 weeks to get uh you know, enough things done within that period of time. So, how do you envision that working? We're we're we're we're still in essence giving it We're we're we're we're shortening the timeline cuz we're giving ourselves a week to get the absentee ballots, get the advertising done. Um kudos to to town hall. I think over the last year, even 2 years, we've done a
015much better job communicating with our residents um of when things are going on. Um and I think we need to continue down that path. And even further than that, maybe we put, you know, the budget shall be published on the town's website, you know, you know, we Tom and I spoke about this. So, the board of selectmen um we looked at state statute. We And because it's a town meeting, we have to publish it 10 days in the paper, right? So, we have we we do have time. April 19th is is the last day that the board of selectmen can make decisions. So, we have time to, you know, obviously plenty of time before the May 4th meeting so everybody understands what the budget is. If a budget does fail on the May 11th Yes,
016excuse me, on the May 11th, the the second Tuesday of the month, we're going to short window, but we can get it done. The board of selectmen are going to have to realize if the budget fails on Tuesday, we're meeting Wednesday and Thursday and potentially Friday. Because we need to turn this thing around, and I don't think any board of selectmen or probably the town manager is going to meet on Friday. We'll just go to 2:00 a.m. in the morning. But, I think we get out on on a on a Thursday at whatever time, we turn this thing around on a Friday, it hits the Saturday paper, and and we go from there. But, if we have a Tuesday So, the question cuz you're talking about, you know, what what selectmen are going to have
017to do, okay? If we have the election on a Tuesday, we have to make sure we have all the votes counted in time to have to then give notice for a special meeting on Wednesday to adjust. Is that enough time? >> Excellent point. We could notice the if we go down that path, right? In fact, you know, the board of selectmen sets their schedule somewhere around December. I'm I will come to the board with meeting dates. We'll know obviously if charter revision passes, if it goes into effect right away, we could actually put meetings and just simply cancel them. Okay. And this way they'll be regular meetings. They won't even be budget workshops, and you could cancel potentially the meetings that were going to be {quote} budget workshops. Um So, we do we do that
018for the week of the, you know, 4th, 18th, the We do one for you. You schedule that. So, the section 1108 up here uh for everybody that's here at the table. Um So, in the upper part, it says it we should do it 15 days prior to annual town meeting, publish the um budget. So, down here, and I'll call on anybody that interprets this. So, if it fails, it has to be rescheduled, and in in this case, it's 14 to 21 days. Um at the resumption of the meeting, which is the town meeting, they shall submit an annual budget set forth in this article, and the process shall be repeated until the budget is adopted. So, does this process include the 15 days of published? Yes. So, when we So, when we read that and
019we talked about this upstairs, when we read that, seems like that's an When you look at state statute, you have to go 10 days on the on the first budget attempt. Once a budget fails, the language was pretty quiet in terms of timeline of reposting the revised budget. It it was pretty quiet upon it. And then I look at what other towns are doing, right? So, you have a charter and you have state statute. And I use Granby as an example, right? Cuz I'm seeing what they go through. So, Granby's going every 2 weeks. They voted on the 20th, and now they're back at the ballot on May 4th. And they're checking all the state statutes to making sure the budget is publicized and and and such. So, I was mimicking a lot off of
020what Granby's doing. I'm a little jealous cuz they got out early, and they're going through their second vote on on on May 4th with it. Um and when we looked at it, the first budget, 10 days is what town meeting um state required is 10-day publication. Well, we dialed that in to April 19th to May 4th, we have plenty times there. It's perfect there. It's if the budget fails that every 2 weeks we're going back. We can advertise it. Granted, it's not going to be 15 days of advertisement. You know, the the board of selectmen could meet that Thursday. We'll have it publicized that Friday on town's websites and in the paper, obviously, uh Saturday morning. I think when we met with you, we were looking at Granby, too. That's what we were basing our
021In a lot of towns, it's every 2 weeks. Windsor's another one that if Windsor's budget fails, it's every 2 weeks. In a lot of towns that have votes on the budget, if a budget fails, they're back at it every 2 weeks. Um prior community I worked in, um if it does go to referendum, the process repeats every 2 weeks. Which just seems to be what a lot of towns have adopted. So, we would just need to make sure with Kevin Nelligan about uh requirements for notice. You know, for like we have our We know notice for the town first town meeting, we know about notice, but we need to know about notice in the um if if it fails, we want to know what the notice requirements are in that case. And then where Tom
022and I went, um for you all maybe to discuss as well as how do you verbalize this to the voters of the change? And I said I said I brought it up and I said, "Well, that's Kevin Nelligan's uh you know, question to answer." >> on a ballot when they're standing at the How do you make it short? How do you make it understandable? I mean, we're we're moving a lot of different parts. Well, hopefully what we're going to do is we're going to publish this like uh an actual newsletter that goes to the town town-wide for like we used to do with a Winchester wire. It goes town-wide and it it says what we're going to do and why. And then when it gets on the ballot, language will be the changed budget uh
023referendum timelines to first Monday in May and a 2-week window in between budgets if needed. And I just thought this has to go through a You all are going to have a public hearing. Board of Selectmen are all going to have a public hearing. We could go a little bit more in depth of I think what we may be looking to accomplish with this, which >> I said earlier tonight, I would like to see the see us get settled on some things to send send out to um to uh Kevin Nelligan so we can get the ball rolling on that. Are there any more questions for Paul? Does everybody think that this is a workable schedule? Is anybody worried about public enough public notice time? Time in between the budgets? Is everybody [clears throat] okay
024with that? >> it's adequate. Yeah. I like um Town Manager Harrington's outline better than my calendar. I think it's easier to read, so I think we could put maybe use this and put it in the our Would you mind emailing me this? Not at all. Okay, thank you. Um do you want the the complete document, the current versus the proposed? Okay. I tried doing calendars and it's like very difficult. But when you start playing with it, if you could take the new proposed and instead of being on two separate pages, if you could put what it was above it and the new proposed >> up. Yeah, because when people we've learned over time when people read things, even when I was at a meeting last week, I was like, "Well, where's the before?" You know,
025we're talking policies. And it was like, "Well, where's the before?" So, it just helps people see that this is what it was before and this is what it is now, before Some of these Yeah, some of these may I'm guessing that most of the green is once you get below a certain point, it's going to be all new. Right. Yeah. Yep, I can do that. That's all right. That's how we did it. Yes. >> Yeah, if you don't mind sending me that, that Not at all. And we might not need all the greens. We might need more of a statement like if it's like fails 2 weeks If it fails 2 weeks, yeah. Like that without In full disclosure, Tom and I um debated for a little bit. And then we all ultimately ended up
026pushing it forward, but one of the the two public hearings, there's the Board of Ed portion of it, then there's the town side of things. We went back and forth on it of do we want to continue cuz right now that is written in the charter that, you know, the Board of Ed will hold, you know, the Board of Selectmen will hold two public hearings, one being devoted to the Board of Education, the second one, you know, we take as we're going to push the whole budget forward. Um we went back and forth. You know, I went to the Board of Education meeting, but I guess I do sit in a very different seat. I knew everything they were going to present, you know, cuz I've been following along. But, you know, maybe that's where
027more people get informed, so we kind of just said, "You know what? What's wrong with that? Cuz you're just getting people more information." But, we debated it and figured we would give it to you guys if you thought potentially there was a Well, I did talk about that particular part. It's when you start taking things away from the public to know, even though it may seem redundant to all of you, it may not be to the public. And there's no one that said when the dates were. So, you could have the public hearing for the schools and the town on the same day. No Nobody said when they had to be. So, if the board wanted to schedule both on the same day, you could. The first half for one and second half for the
028other. Um that's entirely There's there's I don't think there's anything in the charter that says when those dates occur. Except they have to have two public hearings. Excellent point. We got to think about that next year. Is there anything else with your budget timelines or Holly or Sandra that we need to look at? So, with this one, everybody everybody on the committee, are we Are you all okay with sending this up to the uh Selectmen? Yes. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Any Selectmen questions? Nothing. Okay. So, we'll get this one is definitely uh Andy, when do you want the update? Do you want the updated document to send to Kevin? >> Yes, please. When do you want that by? Whenever you can have it by. Not tonight. Well, I know not tonight, but Well, whenever you You're
029not a slow folk, so when you get a chance to get it to us, that'd be great. Yep. All right. Um I'm just going to do a quick skip to uh section C for the fire department consolidation, because what I did is I went into um uh Oh, not there. I went into uh e-code to look at um the fire department. And I'm not exactly sure what they want the consolidation to be and what the This is mean we're doing Winchester fire with Winsted fire? Does this mean we're changing If you look at the thing I just put up here, you can see there's like lots of parts. And this is in the um Some of it's in ordinances and some of it's in charter. And so, in the ordinances, it talks about fire department
030and fire districts, you know, like we have three firehouses. Is this And they've done some things internally to compress what used to be like the firehouses were I think acted independently and they've sort of uh pushed those together now. Uh so, Paul, can you just like tell us a little bit about what um what you think the fire department wants to do and we'll decide if we want to ask them to come on Monday. Sure. So, so this came from our fire chief in Winsted, uh John Field, Chief Field. Um he felt uh that we should have one fire district in hopes that as departments potentially um increase in age, that there's better coverage for the town. Um he felt that one management structure overseeing the entire town would suit the fire department uh or
031the town's needs a little bit better. Um and his thought practices is that, you know, the town would have one fire chief and one management team running the entire town through throughout. Um Chief Field and I have talked very, very briefly about it. Um I I don't want to say I was shocked, but I was surprised when I received the email. Didn't think that was going to be on anybody's radar. Um did have a uh conversation with uh Chief Marchand. Um got a very surprising um reaction that um they weren't He wasn't necessarily against it. In the longevity of of what's in in the best uh uh being for the town, he felt that it is something that we should talk about. Is that something that should be talked about, you know, in this charter
032revision under what I thought we were going to get in and get out um with this charter revision and then potentially see where we could go down the road. Um you know, I don't think I don't want anyone's feelings hurt. I think both departments represent the town very, very well. We're not losing houses and stuff like that. But, ultimately, I think what Chief Field's trying to do is putting it on the town's radar of could we combine everything and create this one department overseeing it all. Um from a town manager's perspective, I look at equipment being a very expensive item. And now, do you need two ladder trucks, two pumper trucks? Yes, the town is very big square footage-wise, square miles-wise, but when I look at, you know, the cost of items where, you you
033fire engines used to cost a couple hundred thousand dollars. You can't buy one for less than a million. Um and do we need two of the, you know, this or could that one, you know, potential apparatus service the whole town? Um I look at it from a dollars and cents perspective um that if I could buy less apparatus that services the whole town, I'm in a winning uh situation with that. And does the change accomplish that? To be determined, I think. I think this is in the very, very early stages. Um but I know they work I don't think the change changes that. I think that the equipment that they have, they complement each other uh from what I know of the whole the service area. They're not going to do another ladder truck, we
034have one. And so when they need it in Winchester, the ladder truck goes out. When they need a pumper, Winchester comes in. I think one of the things that you need to know, too, is Winchester fire gets grants. Their budget within our budget is 25,000 and they've been there like forever because they're able to fundraise and they have all sorts of uh you know, people up there that help financially with it. So, would So, would that be a big financial change? Is like would people that are running the fire department now because because Holly, your dad always talks about, you know, the number of volunteers and at some point that we're going to need a paid fire department if the volunteer numbers continue to do what they're doing. We all have fire insurance on our
035houses and our insurance ratings for what we get charged are dependent upon our fire service. So, there most volunteer towns see a a road roadmap that leads to paid firemen. So, would these would Does this change need to be a full thought out plan that in incorporates Winchester fire, Winchester fire department? You, where you come with a full laid out plan or or do we take a stab at it now? I think it needs to be a full laid out plan. One of the biggest purchases that anyone makes in their life is their house. I I don't think we can race into this um because we're talking about one of the largest assets that anybody owns. And I think we need a very well-thought-out plan with with with all stakeholders at the table and start
036talking about it a little bit more. I I I my opinion, I don't think this is ready for prime time. I think there's a lot more work and a lot more research that needs to be done before we go to our residents and ask them for for this type of a wholesale change. The two chiefs may feel different. As a town manager, I feel that um you know, this was emailed over, brief conversation. I respect both chiefs immensely, but I think we need to sit down and talk about the what ifs. And and the what ifs haven't hasn't happened yet. Um they just haven't. >> So, Paul and Cheryl, what's the the appetite of selectmen on something like this? I wouldn't think it's if you're not we're not looking necessarily at any cost savings, immediate
037cost savings, it doesn't sound like. I don't think there's an appetite to do this, you know, ham-handedly. We need to make sure we're doing it in an appropriate manner. This may be something for another commission. Are there any standard statistics on population, like how much equipment and how many firemen you need? Or is it like based on how much land space they're they have to cover? Oh, there's definitely standards of of how much land, what type of equipment you want. Off the top of my head, I can't recite them. >> if they exist. But they do exist. Yeah, they do. There are uh firefighting standards in in terms of the minimum equipment that you need, um minimum volunteers that you need, um all of that. So, there there there there is a a codebook that,
038you know, you want to live up to, for sure. To answer your question, Cheryl, my uh candid my impression is that this is there's not been enough study on this yet. I don't think it's doesn't feel like it's even ready to be discussed and I think that to try to include it in this particular change um seems like we're just it's just not ready. So, I'd be in favor of of having a full plan brought to the Board of Selectmen and then we could address whether it should come in as a charter revision at that point. Great. Pat Sounder, did you have your hand up before? No, but I do. I'm in agreement. I think it needs to be studied fully. All right. So, um I will let um or Paul, do you want to
039let the chiefs know that nobody's nobody's like made a um thought process about whether it's worthy or not worthy. It's just that the amount of time needed to flesh everything out, the plan should come from both Winchester fire and Winsted fire as a joint um joint proposal, I guess, to the Board of Selectmen at some point. I I think I messaged her loud and clear. >> Unless he's watching right now, but I don't know. >> [laughter] >> There are four people watching. There are four people watching. I don't I don't know. Big audience. Big audience. And I uh Madam Chair, I don't know if um this is proper and I know you can rule me out of order, it's fine. Um I don't plan on staying for the rest of the meeting unless you you
040do stop. I did have a resident uh express that I expressed to you that if there's a potential that the Gilbert line item comes out of the Board of Education budget and goes on the town side of the budget. I did go uh a little back and forth on an email, but ultimately I did agree that I would I would bring it to to you. So, um again, I just say that cuz might have stuck around for public comment, but um Yep. Okay. I ultimately said I would bring it up. Okay. Well, we'll take care of that issue later. I want to get through the rest of the agenda now cuz we got plenty of stuff to keep us busy at the moment. Do you all need us anymore? We always need you, but not
041right now. Okay. Um I'm probably going to leave. You know how to hit the off button, right? Yep. Does somebody remind me to push it to off? Okay. I forgot. Got to check the door yesterday and the cat got outside. So, there you go. His first long time his first uh hour and 45-minute stroll outside. I thought he'd take off for the woods, he stayed around the door. I don't know. He's not going out again, no. Anyway, so uh next up is um I know we've all been in agreement with this, the town clerk town clerk position uh to permanent uh professional position. Everybody still okay with that? So, I'm going to get take that to Kevin and send send that up. Um I'm going to skip the two to four-year term for Board of
042Selectmen and go to uh the one where people can't serve on more than one major commission. Uh do we want that moving forward? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Did Were you able to identify major and minor commissions, which ones it would apply to? Well, we don't Yeah, we only we only addressed the major the major boards or commissions or whatever. You know, excluding I mean, there's no doesn't seem to be any problem with somebody that's already on a major board going on one of the smaller uh uh But do you have those listed? Um Have you done that yet? Yeah. I put this somewhere. Because that would be our next step is looking at the major boards that they're they're recommending and uh if we agree with it or if there's something we need to tweak. Did
043we also talk about perhaps looking at the number of members of the board and whether that was something worth considering as well? Sure. Well, you mean to change it or to Seeing as it might affect the dual Well, Inland Wetlands was the one that talked to us about going from the nine to seven. Uh but I see major I see the major You mean in order to make a decision about whether we ban somebody? No, whether we can somebody. Yeah. >> Well, I I mean, you can't serve on more than two. Right. Not more than one, so. Because one of the things the factors that we're talking about that influence whether we have dual membership on boards is that we don't have enough volunteers. And so, that's that's the causation of why we have people
044serving on more than two one or two boards. So, if we are able to also look at the number of members, perhaps that would help. All right. What do you guys got? Anything? Yeah. So far, we've got water and sewer and Inland Wetlands, those two boards. What about water and sewer and Yeah, water and sewer and Inland Wetlands. And then we found that there could definitely be conflicts of interest in those two. The other two are already planning and zoning. Some of these are already in the state statutes, they can't have more than two. Right. Like um Board of Appeals and P&Z. Yep. So, those we don't have to worry about, they're already in there. But those were the two major ones we came up with. >> Those were Yeah. I believe. In my in
045my opinion, those were the those are two major commissions that that we we could actually address there being restrictions on them on a person that sits on those not being on another on another board or commission. But this is just our we did our first draft. I have it on my computer at home. Okay. And we were basically online looking at what type of conflicts would appear, just to give examples Right. for Inland Wetlands and Water and Sewer. And there there's quite a few. Um so, did you do anything with if if we say those are the five major boards water and sewer inland wetlands P&Z ZBA and board of assessment appeals I think you said were the some of the ones you were talking about. Did you feel that somebody on um board of
046assessment appeals could be on water and sewer or should only should they only serve on one of those at a time? In other words, those are the five major boards and a person should only serve on one of those at a time and not serve in on two of that in two in that group. Which one was it? With water and sewer? Examples we found was say planning and zoning and then wetlands planning and zoning with water and sewer. Planning and zoning seems to be the one seems to be the one that comes up the most. We saw one zoning board of appeals was up against wetlands board but it wasn't every combination of them. But these were just things that could happen. Right. So you can't do you're asking if we include all five
047and say you can only serve on one. Yes. Right. Yes. So so if we're we all seem to be okay with you can only serve on one major board at a time, right? So now we have to define what are those major boards and then your work to say why the conflict why we're doing this is important as well. In terms of you know, why we did that. We also think it's probably going to affect um what do you call the people that are waiting to get on? Alternates? Yeah. Because if an alternate is already on a major board Right. They'll have to come off. >> you know, an opening comes up for them to get on to the one they've been waiting on. They can't cuz then they're up to two major boards. Do
048you know what I mean? Well, if they're an alternate you mean if they're an alternate let's say on ZBA and an opening happened on water and sewer? I don't I don't Yeah. Yeah. If they're on already a major board that might have a conflict with another board. Have we talked about grandfathering in people that are already on boards or even on alternates? And then you know, trusting them to recuse themselves appropriately needed. And then how do you decide? Like let's say you have someone on a major board and then they're on the minor board. How do we decide? Or they're on two major boards. How do they decide which one they're going to drop? Do they make the decision themselves? Do we look at you know, it's a full board already. It's fine if you
049drop or we've only got two people on that board you want to keep it. Do you know what I mean? Right, but I thought what we talked about is we're going to be able to grandfather in the people that are on the board. We're not kicking them out. >> So they're on as long as they want to be. No, I thought that for their term. I thought that Bill had Bill Hudak had a a good solution for that. I don't believe it was grandfathering in people in. I forgot what he said. I wish he was here tonight but he had an idea as to how it would work in terms of asking people and having them move from one board to another. >> So releasing themselves from one major board of service. So do we
050want them to release themselves or do we want the board of selectmen to release them from one? Having the opportunity first to let them release. >> let them cuz they're going to pick what interests them most probably. So I'm just asking because Yeah. No, I agree. I think give them the opportunity to Yeah, the grandfathering allows people to if there's a problem that problem is just allowed to continue for what could be two, three, or four years as opposed to dealing with what is potentially a problem. So if you're going to make this change I think some mechanism for making people change, you know, decide which one they want to stay on probably makes more sense than trying to grandfather them. Yeah, I would rather do that. I mean that might be better than the
051grandfathering. And probably let them choose which of the two boards. The idea of the change is to correct a potential issue. So That's right. So it's conflict of interest. I think you let them select. I'm for that one. Yep. I agree. That's a and it's a one-time issue because after >> After that After it's corrected it's no longer a problem. So So a no grandfather. And then under expenditure analysis the only thing we could think of was a loss of knowledge cuz for the experienced ones and then maybe like if they have to come up with some monetary stipend in case they can't remove members. I mean cuz we they can't recruit members to fill the vacancies if the others had to drop out. I don't know if there's really a monetary part to this.
052Yeah, I mean there might not. Prob- probably not. Right. So an alternate is actually part of a board. So so they would be limited to in terms of one major board. So I will take and send to Kevin the five major boards. I will tell him that um the language that you said Bill had in terms of how they would drop off or choice um and then no grandfathering and Kevin will come up with language for us. Candy, I found my list of what I what I had put down as major boards and and all that and I mean this is this is just based on their responsibilities and the size or whatever. Um and and I mean this is this isn't law or anything like that. It's my opinion. Um on the majors I
053had board of selectmen which is board of finance in parentheses too. Board of education planning and zoning commission inland wetlands and water courses economic development commission historic commission conservation commission water and sewer zoning board of appeals um board of assessment appeals um and recreation board. Then I had two that I kind of were a question mark. I had them under a category with under category of specialized committees and authorities. Um that would be the ambulance board um board of assessment appeals. I know I'm mentioning that twice. And I throw it out to you guys if you think that's a major board. I would say board of assessment appeals. Um uh charter revision commission ethics commission housing authority recreation board retirement administration board and the soldiers monument commission. Those Those you think those are all majors?
054>> No, they would be No, they would be under specialized committees and authorities. Could we get Could we get a chart of that you know, written out and then how many members serve on each? Yeah. Yeah, I didn't get into that. Yeah, but we could do a major and minor and committee. Right. So when these specialized these specialized are you saying to limit them? No. I think he's still giving a list of everything. So what are the what are the what are the ones that you're actually going to send to Kevin? We just need the ones that we're going to limit. Right. The ones we talked to previously. >> that the major ones. Which what is that final list? Yeah, I didn't want to overcomplicate things. I mean that would be a monumental task to
055start parsing every single one and yeah and make them put in restrictions. That's yeah. Yeah, that's what that's what we picked as far as maybe you know, changing the charter language or whatever. What five do you have Candy that you're sending up to Kevin? Well, I thought when we all talked or at least in my mind too when I think about major boards, board of selectmen are already limited. Right. So they're limited. Board of Ed um uh I think are they limited or not? I don't think they are. I don't think they are. They're not. They can't they could go serve on inland wetlands for that. Is Is Frank still serving on inland wetlands and board of Ed? Yes. So I guess they're not limited. Right. So so I have water and sewer inland wetlands
056P&Z uh zoning board of appeals board of assessment appeals. Those were the ones I have. I don't have EDC in that category. I don't have recreation in that category. No. No. So wetlands P&Z ZBA water and sewer and MBAA, right? Yeah. So that those five and I think is that the five that was actually sent to the commission originally? Or was that or was there anything changed? I was trying to find the charge. The charge? The charge. I would also add now that we brought up board of Ed, I would also add that to the list. I would add as a major board. >> The charge doesn't specify. I I yeah, it doesn't specify. I think board of Ed sounds like a reasonable addition. I mean just ask why. Where would where would the conflict
057be between the board of Ed and wetlands or P&Z or ZBA and I mean I think it's a con- it's a conflict that's more of an issue. I think it could be a conflict on um on a planning and zoning. This the school areas is the school wanted to build something or expand something, there would be a a conflict. >> Maybe uh that would include also then inland wetlands and ZBA if they were going to build something. They would encounter that. Yeah, well we have Yeah. ZBA. So just clean it up. Keep it clean. For both of us. So, six So, I'm also assuming that besides conflict of interest, we're also doing this because we want more people in the community to be part of you know, these boards and commissions. I know that um
058there's always been a push to have more people involved and not have it be um the same when we can. So, um Don't we have trouble already trying to fill the seats on our or our project team? >> Well, I mean, we do have trouble filling the seats itself, but you know, it's it's interesting because way back in 2015 uh Jack Bork and Linda Crapaud went on a a tour around town, Winchester Center, library, and other places to talk about boards and commissions and why we need more people involved, etc., etc. And then the other thing that changed, too, is they stopped being about We had somebody go on water and sewer and wanted to know which political party they needed to talk to to be able to get on, you know, water and sewer,
059and we said you don't need to be on any political party. We're not The political parties, unlike in other towns, are not driving the appointments here. They used to be, but the change happened to try to get more people involved. So, the um So, So, it sometimes it just means a little more work to try to find people, too, if you want more people to be involved. If we want it to just be the same people, then we won't change the rule. You know, so I mean, that's That's the thing is you got to find people. I think your you know, C up there, for example, wetlands coming from seven or from nine to seven and whatever potential other boards may be, way too big might be another important point of this because that's a
060massive board of nine people. I think that's the only big board. Yeah. Which one is that? Inland wetlands. I think it's the only big huge board. Um I mean, ZBA is five. Yeah. With two alternates. Yeah, that's not bad. Planning and zoning is what? Five. Five. So, it'd be interesting to take a look at the roster of the of these six and how many people are involved. >> filed um two people that are currently serving on two boards. The question The The question was how many members, like we know wetlands is nine. >> the population of each. Yeah, wetlands is nine, P&Z is five, ZBA is five. How many are on water and sewer BAA? And we know it's Isn't it on the bottom of that sheet you have right there? On the bottom Yep.
061Look on there on the bottom. There's probably It says it, doesn't it? Yeah, this is vacancies and stuff, too. That's a massive board. >> No. It doesn't. >> of these boards are not subject to They're They're not mentioned in the charter. As As terms of the the the member count, Cheryl? Appointments by the Board of Selectmen. I'm looking at section 315. These are boards that are created with the charter. Some boards are are not created by the charter. What's that? They're created just by the So, here is Here are all the boards and committees Mhm. right here. Mhm. So, uh the water level committee um that's only once in a while. Ambulance board, Board of Assessment Appeals, Board of Ed, Board of Selectmen, Charter Revision, Conservation Commission, EDC is a big board as well. I'll
062click on that in a minute. Ethics, Friends of Main Street, Historic Commission, Housing Authority, Wetlands, uh Northwest Regional Mental Health Board. That's I think maybe two people. I could check it up. Northwest Transit is only one of us. Uh Older Adult Commission, P&Z, Recreation, Safe Streets for All Committee. I mean, if people are wondering why they're being asked about their um streets and putting their input in, it's because of that committee, by the way. Okay, so anybody's listening out there in the world and we went up by four. Soldiers Monument is a a bigger, but they have a lot of work they do. Uh Sue Grossmans an ad hoc. It won't be around long. Torrington Area Health, I think it's one or two. Water and Sewer, I think it's five and ZBA, you said, is
063five. >> and three. Um Park and Rec Rec is nine, according to the charter. Yeah, Park and Rec goes back and forth between nine and 13 in my entire time. >> yeah, well, it says nine and no more than 13. >> Yeah, they need They need a lot of people to staff it. >> So, here's here's who's currently there. If this is correct, so. So, what my point is that, you know, we're we're looking to limit seats, you know, membership on boards that are not even in the charter. They're not even boards that are created by the charter. That's the question I have if that's appropriate. So, which ones do you think are not? Well, I'm not So, I'm looking at article um six. Yeah. We've got, you know, Board of Tax Review, Economic Development,
064Park and Rec, ZBA, Water and Sewer, Housing, P&Z, and then um Wetlands. >> six. Why don't you look The The BAA is not in there. The Board of Assessment Appeals. That's tax review. That's tax review. So, that's under So, that's not under a board. Okay. >> It is. It's called tax review. Yeah. Oh, that's the tax review. Okay, then it's there. So, they're all in there. I don't I mean, Board of Ed, I haven't looked that one up, but the rest are covered in here. Board of Ref is referenced as being, you know, an elected office. Does that have a member count in there? Uh I think it does. Nice. I see it. It is right out six and three. It does Yeah, it does have it under Yeah, that's under article two under election
065elective offices. So, a question as to whether, you know, since it's an elected office versus appointed office, are we Can we limit their involvement the members' involvement in other boards? That's not Well, Board of Selectmen's elected. Right. But that There's provisions within the charter. So, we're going to be adding the provision in in the charter to limit the Board of Ed's membership committee then. That's what we're Okay. Maybe saying. Yeah. Maybe These are all maybes. This is you know, this this is such a mess. This These are all over the place. Well, yeah, that's a Someday you could have a a charter commission that rewrites the whole thing. You would hire somebody to do that. >> Exactly. Yeah. You would hire somebody to do it to renumber it and redo everything and then make it
066searchable like the ordinances. Mhm. Okay, so let's move on to um Thank you. Uh if you have anything you want to forward to us, you know, please do so. Okay. Um So, next is the Board of Selectmen term from two to four years. All right. Sandra, you were still looking at that or >> We are. We kind of tabled it while we were trying to get the other ones sent through to Kevin. And now that we have, we can return to it. Well, one of the things with this is Paul, you weren't here. Cheryl, I don't think we were here the last meeting. Um >> Yeah. There were two of us we did a just a straw vote. There were two of us really not in favor of doing this. Um and everybody else didn't
067really you know, take a position one way or the other. So, um Who were the two that weren't? Holly said she wasn't. I said I wasn't. Right over here. I think I thought we had pushed it through for further discussion. Oh, yeah, I'm not taking it off the table. I'm just saying that you know, where we stand right now. So. Well, maybe we should discuss the pros and the cons cuz we had that one document that we did. Right. Well, I you know, I've I've said what I've said about it, so. I I think the important thing to do is um I would say is to talk to people in Torrington why they did not do it. They moved the mayor to four years, but they did not move the city council to four years.
068They kept it as two years. And just out in the random world out there, there's a lot of people not in favor of it. Yeah, that's the impression I've been getting. Cuz people know that we're looking at it and a lot of people are not in favor of it. Well, what if we each brought up like pros and cons on that, too, you know? Like what would be the pros the the the valid reasons for changing it to the four years and then what would be the reasons why, you know, the drawbacks of, you know, right off the bat, maybe somebody that wants to run for the Board of Selectmen, you know, doesn't want to doesn't want to commit to four years, okay? Oh, yeah, that was the other thing. You're right, because I wanted
069to know on the Board of Education how many people finished their four-year terms. Yeah. in the last like six, seven years. I thought Was that many? >> many, I don't know. Did we get any answers on that? I didn't go asking for it yet. I can. Mhm. Because I don't know if that was the norm or just a strange [snorts] anomaly, outlier, that we had a lot of turnover to the Board of Education during that term. Well, it wasn't just one term. It's been multiple terms. Well, that's what I'm asking. It was during my term, was that just an anomaly? No, because during my first term, there was a number of, you know, absent you know, people that didn't show up and didn't work there at all, you know, and we didn't actually replace one
070of them. We just left it would be. And then there were others that we did have to substitute in. So, um and then that just continued and I you know, and I started with the first board after the receivership. So, I don't know what it was like before for receivership, but it couldn't have been that pretty. >> [laughter] >> So, it's been an ongoing thing since the receivership. And and and many times people want to run again, run for a second term, but that's not in every case and I don't know what the historical um pattern is on that, you know? I think it's different in the Board of Selectmen versus the Board of Ed. I think they're and I don't I don't have the history, but in the short time I've been part of
071it um and watched it, most people tend to want to run for a second term. Yeah. That's what I thought. >> that you know, there's and you can go down the whole list of pros and cons. I think there's you know, projects today take years to complete and having some continuity is a is a plus. That was one of the reasons I was for it. Yep. Um in my first term and Cheryl, you're probably going through some of this, although maybe getting up to speed quick, but it takes a while to get your arms around this job and fully understand what it is and you know, then you get to actually make a difference then you're running again and you know, anyway, there there is pros and cons to it clearly. Um but is it
072time to to look at it and go, you know, we're working on big projects and and if you change leadership constantly, some of these projects will never get to the end. Yeah, that's valid. I agree. Well, I would say that we have a town manager for that purpose, to get these projects to the end that that come through. >> Yeah, they all work in concert though, too, Well, they they do, but you know, having you know, I'm not in favor of it, so. I think it's important to be answerable to the public that the Board of Selectmen puts out the taxation and I think we need to be answerable to that. I think the getting up to speed part, um I think you can do that. Um it just takes a a lot of time
073early on to do that. The project pieces should be professionally managed by our our people in town. Most people that get involved in the Board of Selectmen have been paying attention for for at least a year or two that that come in. Um so, I just think that I think at this point in time I I wanted to move it. I know I was talking to somebody who there's is a town that does 3 years. Yeah, right in my mind. Well, we'll build it even throw throw that out. So. I think accountability is really important. I think the shorter term does it and if you think about, you know, how you know, our founding fathers figured out, you know, to have the two separate for, you know, legislated, they wanted shorter terms. They wanted that
074accountability. They wanted new people coming in with fresh ideas and you know, and I think that's where the Board of Selectmen really comes in to play and I think so. That's kind of where I stand. You know, I I had, you know, originally I think discussed at the Board of Selectmen meeting about why aren't we doing four terms and so, the more I think about it and listen to people, it's like you don't have that accountability then. You just you get just and I think that can lead to distrust and so, having the accountability is important in this town, very important. Well, we have I mean, there are towns that have switched. I know we talked about this before. Bethel was one of them that went from two to four years. Stonington did a charter
075revision for from two to four years. From two to four. Um one of them the first selectman was done for a four-year term, but that's cuz they don't have a town manager. And it and it wouldn't save us on an on an election cycle because there's other board there's other boards and commissions that are coming up cuz of staggered terms, right? >> Right. So, it's not like okay, the town can save the money on on on eliminating an an election cycle and process and >> we still have Board of Ed running on every two-year term. >> Because you would be running a staggered Yeah, right. staggered anyhow, yeah. So, there's no benefit I'm all you don't have to run a stagger. You can do all four at once. We could. So, I mean, there there's
076pros and cons obviously like we keep talking about the stability in leadership, long-term planning, harder to recruit candidates with just a two-year cycle. I don't know if that's a But then there's the harder to recruit >> a harder to recruit candidates. Less voter accountability. >> Well, no, there wasn't a lot of candidates in this last one. Yeah, but there was one time there was 21. >> [laughter] >> How many years ago was that? Not too long ago. 15, 13, something like that. Um I think it's harder to tell someone that they're committing to four years. Yeah, especially with, you know, your four years, two meetings a month plus this, that, plus that. It's a lot. It's a lot. The time we put in is a lot. Well, I guess we'll push this uh down to
077the next meeting on Monday cuz we do meet again on Monday, by the way, regular schedule. So, let's move on to uh under C is a registrar's term from uh two four years from two. I think we should have the registrars come and explain to us why they want that. I can guess why. I I can see the benefits of it just like So. >> So, you want me to invite them for next Monday? Sure. All right. So, it's nice to see them. Yep. B is out. Um do we want to entertain IWWPC at the seven members from nine? What is the IWWPC? Inland Wetlands. It's okay. Sorry. If we want to entertain it, I will ask them to come and tell us why. Did they ask for that? Yes, they did. What did they
078ask for? They want For to go down from nine to seven. >> But they also proposed putting a few alternates in there, but if you put alternates in there, you have the same issue. Right? I think a conversation would be appropriate. Well, oh yeah, what's the issue with the alternates though? I'm just having to recruit that many people. Yes. Cuz I guess you're going to nine from seven, so your board's not that um that big, so you make sure you have a full board, your forums are uh easily met. You might have an alternate case somebody can't be there, but alternates like I'm planning and zoning and ZBA alternates is supposed to be there. At a regular meeting, they just may not speak. They're just supposed to learn. Right? So. Well, they have to be
079there in case they have to vote on an application at the following meeting, so that's what the alternates do. So, we'll we'll is it harder to get alternates that have to sit and really not do something versus somebody that sits. On ZBA again, they do five and three. Right. So, and each one of the alternates eventually moves up into the the permanent seat. And why not a five three as opposed to the seven? That's another question for Inland Wetlands. I think it'd be great to have them come and explain why they wanted the seven. >> Okay. So, I will It's probably a recruiting issue, I'm guessing, but All right. Uh okay. Okay, so I'll get them to come up. D is any other charter considerations anybody had? Do we want to look at what I
080brought up way in the beginning about the boards and commissions and electors, property owners, living district? Do we want to pull that back in or not? Wait, can you just go over again what you were So, in the charter, there are two or three sections that talk about um you have to be a property owner in one case. Uh like EDC's a good one. So, EDC, somebody that owns a business in town wants to be on EDC, but they can't because they're they're not an elector. An elector is somebody that votes in town. This is their voting district. They would they would vote here. Um and then we changed the historic commission, I believe, to being a resident or maybe We took elector out of it, I think. We took elector out. So, do we
081want to clarify all that because it is in multiple sections within there and it's always been a real um that our people get stuck in it sometimes. So. So, how is it that um I don't have to go back and look, but when we changed the historical, historical's not a not governed by the charter, is that Right, it's an ordinance. Right, so we have to do it through an ordinance cuz it's not one of the boards that's that's mentioned in the charter, is that correct? Well, we also have I mean, the board doesn't have to be in the charter, but the rules about being on a board or commission should apply unless I guess you take it out by ordinance. That's how we did it for historical. >> Yeah, yeah, I remember that. Well, I
082mean, if you want it back, I'll get it from Kevin cuz he we did that whole big thing. It was it's already been done. It's just a matter of reviewing what he put forward and whether we want to continue with it or not. Well, we'll get that. That sounds okay. So, the only thing I would add is, you know, this was brought up during our budget meetings was the um salary for selectmen. You know, I I didn't know there was one when I ran. I don't think any I mean, I think there was expression at the board the last meeting that it wasn't wasn't important. And I think we're looking at such very different difficult times right now that What, increasing it? Increasing the salary? >> eliminating it. Oh, eliminating it. Eliminating it. Is it
083a salary or is it a a stipend? >> It says salary 310 annual annual salary each selectman and the mayor shall be $1,000 and then $1,500 respectively. I have no problem with keeping the mayor having one cuz there's a lot more work that he that the mayor does. And and not that the selectmen don't do a lot of work, but it just I I think it's inconsequential and it's it's a it makes it it looks a lot better. We're not benefiting in any way. I don't know. Well, and also the Board of Education, I would say probably equally does the amount of work and they get Yeah, they don't have a lot of work. The Board of Selectmen's stipends are there. Well, many boards have wanted to give them back, but there's not a mechanism
084to give them back other than accepting it and then making a donation to where you want to donate it to. So, supposedly those that those numbers came from just taking care of like the mileage that you have to go back and forth with. Um if you have to go to events, any cost of an event that you might go to. So, it it gets covered. I can tell you that after they take out taxes and everything, you know, you go from like a thousand dollars to eight hundred dollars or or less. $72 a month. Well, you got more than me. The um I guess they just So, so it's mostly about that, you know, so I don't know that the um I don't know if it has to be there or if it could go
085down to a dollar. Um I could ask Kevin that if the Board of Selectmen wanted us to or if you want to leave it alone. I think it I mean, do you remember there was a brief discussion about it and I think everyone said we don't need it. Yeah, I don't think you'd get any objection from anybody that currently sits on the board that if they didn't have their thousand dollars and I think Todd's is fifteen hundred actually. And the mayor. Um I don't and again, I know Todd in his role has tried to give it up multiple times and hasn't been able to is you know, so Because it's in the charter. Right. I don't Listen, I I think you'd get um I imagine that the the vote on that would be positive in
086the town to to not pay us anymore. >> [laughter] >> I had heard somebody somebody once said that well, a lot of a lot of times the Board of Selectmen give it back, but they would give that back in the form of donation. We have to pay tax on it and then donate it. Yeah, right. Right. Exactly. Yeah. But I thought you wanted I thought you were bringing it up to go up. No. No, I'm I'm looking at Oh, yeah, no that's what I was That'll go over. No, no, I'm looking at to eliminate that section that's [music] that's charter provision. Put it in the fire department. Just you know, it's just I don't Yeah, cuz that's going to cost for the road, Kitty. I I just I don't think we need It's $7,500. That's
087Yeah, the $7,500 isn't going to pay for No. It's a it's an active A driveway apron isn't not going to pay for the potholes or something. But the $7,500 Well, if there's if there's no prohibition against taking it out, there's no prohibition. Yeah. I can't imagine that if we sent that back up to the Board of Selectmen that we would eliminate that in the revisions that are coming our way here, so. Yeah. All right. So, anything else? What did we Did we decide the Board of Education to be on the Yeah, the the now we have six major boards. Six, right? Well, I'll ask I'll ask Kevin about that. Okay. Now, I'm just going to type a email to Kevin and then tell him what we're thinking about. We just need some early guidance on
088it and where we want to go. So, the So, E is our next steps we're here on Monday. I will invite the Inland Wetlands and the Registrars to come for that. Mhm. A timeline check-in. Remember June 15th we have to get it to them. I did ask Paul Harrington for a person that could start typing things. I will follow up with him on that as he said he would get a name and I wouldn't have to get a name. Um so, if anybody knows anybody, let me know. Did you what? Sorry. To format our report. Remember we didn't want a secretary wanted a to format our Got you. So, can we just submit like whatever we're doing it writing it up? Yep. And then you'll fix it. Yes. All right. And then um public comment.
089Is there anybody public comment? Is DBA supposed to be in here and stuff? I don't know. If they are, we're going we're cruising right along for Oh, no, it's after seven. That's my clock. I'm looking at that clock. You can't look at that clock. You can't look at the clock. Yeah. Yeah, come on up and you can turn on your little microphone and Oh, I forgot somebody was behind us. Okay. That's your sign. Hi, good evening everyone. Renee Waldron, um 111 Standard Avenue. And um I did uh write a letter to Paul asking um to consider the possibility of splitting up that Gilbert line item from the uh WBOE line item. Um I wrote down some of my thoughts, so I'm just going to read it cuz I'm not um super good at, you know,
090kind of coming up with it like like that. Like some people are, so. Um anyways, I'm sure many of you know that I'm quite passionate about education of our students here in Winsted. I was on the Board of Ed for four years. I was also on the Gilbert Corp for four years. And um I'm a public school teacher. I've been uh special education teacher for 23 years. Um I know that at times we haven't seen eye to eye on many topics. However, I feel that it's time for a real change. And the right place to start is within our own town charter. So, if we truly want our schools to work together, uh we have to stop balancing the budget on the backs of our youngest students. Year after year, when there are cuts, they
091come out of pre-K through grade six general education because we have no control over rising Gilbert tuition or special education costs. That's not sustainable and it's not equitable. So, I'm asking you to move the Gilbert tuition line item out of the WPS budget and onto its own line within the town budget. Shifting that responsibility is how we start to fix the imbalance. You might be asking whether this would impact the 10-34 state statute. And the answer is no. Gilbert is a separate entity from the WBOE and for that reason it should have its own line on the town budget. It should also be a separate vote on the referendum. We already see this done successfully in neighboring towns. In Barkhamsted, voters consider the town budget, the Barkhamsted elementary budget, and the Region 7 budget separately.
092They vote on them separately. In both Colebrook and New Hartford, the Region 7 budget is clearly separated from the local school budget. So, that way one can't impact the other. That structure matters because when budgets are combined into a single line item, any reduction ends up falling disproportionately on pre-K through six. And that's exactly what's been happening. That raises real concerns about fairness, about whether this structure is even legal. When we set things up so that cuts can only come from our youngest learners, that's a slippery slope. You might also ask how this might impact the MBR, but the MBR already allows for adjustments in special circumstances such as declining enrollment or school closures. And to be clear, this proposal doesn't reduce education funding. It simply restructures how the funding is presented and voted on.
093Only then can our two school systems truly work together in a partnership because one system should never have to sacrifice resources for its students to sustain the other. When the system only allows cuts to pre-K six, that's not balanced. That's a flaw and it's time we fix it. Therefore, I would strongly urge the commission to take a closer look at this and consider making a change. That's it. Thank you. You're welcome. So, do we want to talk about that at our next meeting? I think it's been an interesting conversation, for sure. I think what she was just saying is just Gilbert just becomes a line item. It can't be voted on separately. It can't. It can't be voted on separately. It just becomes a line item in in the town budget. That would still remain
094at the 10-34 level. It's just that it the Board of Ed wouldn't have to absorb the funds for that line item. I think that's what So, if you picture it, right? >> I understand. So, let's let's just say um just for illustrations, Gilbert came in with a million two. Right? Um if it stays in the Board of Ed budget, the Selectmen and the taxpayers, cuz you can't forget about the taxpayers. So, if the taxpayers vote down the referendum, then the 1.2 stays and it has to come from somewhere, right? And if you reduced the Board of Ed budget by a million, then where is it going to come from? Which is kind of what happens now. So, there may be some merit in it. I was always initially um in my earlier years, initially not
095for something like that, but as everything has evolved over time and the the state funding is lacking um and the state has made it harder and harder. Um I mean, if you Did you all see that article in the Hartford Courant the other day about all the towns that are struggling with what's happening right now? That it's not anybody's internal fault. It's not the internal fault of a Board of Ed. It's not the internal fault of a town. It's the state funding that's been lacking for ECS grants since 2013. It's the inflation. It's the cost of fuel. It's everything that is out of everybody's control and it's gone down to the only place there's there's funding is from a property owner, but they don't can't bear anymore either. So, we have this issue, right? So.
096What's the biggest >> news broadcast. Huh? It's in every news broadcast they bring it up. Yeah. Let's go ahead. In the Board of Ed. Huh? What's the biggest expense if you had to pick one in the Board of Ed? Well, the costs Special education. If you just look at the the asks in the Board of Ed budget right now, it's uh 700 what? 780? 790? >> Something like that in the Board of Ed. >> For just for out of district. Special education. That's uh now it's 500,000 for Gilbert. K-6 wanted 440, but if you add up these almost 800 and the 500, you get to 1.3 million. The budget provides 1,056,000. So, special ed can't be touched. Out of district has to happen. Gilbert can't be touched because of 10-34. So, K-6 regular ed goes
097underwater. And I think that's that's always been the struggle. So, I think that making it so that people can work together easier without having one taking or feeling like that, that might be actually a good solution. It may be. >> Might stop the might stop this on the school side. Um It spreads it out over the town side better. Maybe. We'll see. It's an interesting idea. Doesn't eliminate anything. It just No, it doesn't. I mean, you're still faced with the right with the same problem. You're still faced with money. Right, which is the problem. Right. So, uh anybody motion to adjourn, please? I do so. First second, please. Second. Thank you. All in favor? Aye. All right. And um So, Cheryl and Paul, just to be clear, the Board of Selectmen is okay with us
098going out to these registrars and IWW C? We haven't discussed We haven't discussed with them cuz we Right. We've been budget all week. Okay. So, Well, but I don't see I don't I don't feel this >> Speaking on their behalf, I don't think they see anything that's a problem. No. And good luck with your budget. Thank you. I appreciate that. Goodnight, everybody. Goodnight, Paul. Are we going to talk tomorrow? I don't know. I want to speak with Mary Ann. Oh, well. Yes, I did. Thanks. Night, you guys.