Inland Wetlands Commission - March 19th 2026 7 PM Regular Meeting

001Who own backs? >> I don't know. >> You guys ready? All right, it's uh 7 pm. I'd like to call the Inland West Water Force Commission of March 19th at to order. Um Steven Molinelli, chair, present. Russ Davenport, absent. >> Jeffrey Lipmancott, >> present. >> Frank Olivi, >> present. >> Gary Paganelli, >> present. >> Matt Clawson, absent. Jamie Colligan, >> present. >> Maryanne Burino, >> present. Kevin Bergio absent. Um under agenda review. Anybody with anything? You guys have anything to add? >> No. >> Okay. Um election of officers. Do we want to move ahead with that? >> Well, Russ isn't here. >> Russ isn't here. You don't know when he's >> What's that? >> You never know when he's going to be here. I'll have a discussion with Russ and we'll move ahead with the

002next part. Okay. >> Uh approval of minutes dated February 19th. There a motion. >> I'll make a motion. Go ahead. >> I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from last month. They seem everything seemed fine. >> Any changes? >> Second. >> I'll second. >> All those in favor of approval. Frank, you abstaining? Okay. Uh we have no New business. Under new business, the first application is 25-2 uh Gary Goule uh 221 West Wakefield Boulevard. This the proposal was to repair a stone head wall surrounding existing culvert under the driveway. Is anybody postponed? >> Yeah, I know that. Anybody here? Nobody. All right. There's an there's a request for a postponement by the application applicant. Um, we'll accept that postponement. Okay. Um, next order of business is 26-3 Wesley Cloud on behalf of the Winstead

003Road Realy LLC. Uh, the location is Curryford Road, map 045, block 158, lot 49-1 and the proposal of attack excavation. >> What do you settle gentlemen? You interview introduce yourselves please for the record. >> My name is Wesley from Mountaintop. I'm representing Windset Road Realy today. >> Okay. Clinton web environmental consult. >> Okay. Good. Okay. Gentlemen, this is a new application. So, you want to tell us what you'd like to do and why? >> Um, this is the former um Py Pepper property um that was approved for um a quarry operation back in 2002 by the town. Um but then never never had any work done on the property other than some um sand and gravel that came out. There was never any blasting, never any quarry operations going forward at that time. We tried

004to get a renewal um on that original updated plan, but we couldn't get the originals. We couldn't find the originals anywhere. The town didn't have them any longer. So, we hired um Clint here to um to redo the plans that were submitted, you know, and approved back in 2002, updated some storm water um stuff on the property, gave, you know, made some new maps, verified all the information, and we're just looking to uh move forward with started quaring operation here. There are there are a couple area of of wet or small area of wetlands on the property. it's not really going to affect any of our our operations for potentially years and years down the road. Um, but we're making that application now and showing what's you know what's here and stuff. and and we

005included the the buffer around that in that they their phasing is in five different phases, but since the the prior operators stripped all the sand and gravel off and left the bare bedrock, we're going to do phase one and two at the same time. Um the uh uh so there was a number of conditions on the plan that was signed off by the county um and we included just have one >> in 2000 in 2002. >> Right. Two. >> Right. And um so uh what I put together was just a little cheat sheet to show that the things he was supposed to do actually got done which was pretty good. And then uh I included a few modifications that were changed. So he he um he never built a full sedimentation basin. We will do

006that now, but now we'll do it under standards. It'll be chambered with four bay and then three more chambers after that fil. >> No, no, >> no. Three chambers in the red. >> Do you have a mouse? Uh Jeremy? >> Yep. Um I will uh hang on. Great. as as as you guys narrate, I'll >> you can point. Yeah. So So right now um if you look at the uh uh in that bottommost chamber in black underneath, that's that's all that the prior operator got to build. Okay. So, so we need to do we need to to do it to handle, you know, blasting and crush stone crushing and everything. And in order to make this efficient, we've changed the grading of the of the operation area >> where it says stockpile and process >>

007stockpile and everything. So now that instead of being graded towards Winstead Road, it's going to all be graded to that upper chamber first. So everything will go in that upper chamber first and then that way there um Winstead Realy will be able to you know excavate the sediment out of that without disturbing the whole the whole basin. So that will serve as what they call for bay in that and then it the the second one is just more of a spilling basin and that may need uh excavation you know between very long intervals. And then the last one is is the true spilling basin before it goes out. And then uh evidently before my time they straightened out Winstead Road. So what you see there is all state land. Yep. Right there. That's the old

008uh Winstead Road. And so when they uh when they straightened it out, they they they left that um uh pond in the area which has since become you know vegetated with wetlands and everything. >> Is that still state land? >> Yeah, still state land. Yeah. So so actually um and so it it goes into on the north end of the uh that of that um area discharges um And then and uh yeah from the site right there. Yes. Thank you Jamie. And then it uh discharges under the current road right there and then eventually makes its way to the still river. So it's it's actually gets another whole giant uh you know wet basin and which is now vegetated. So it acts as a filter you know additional filter >> for any storm water. >>

009Um there is a water course on the adjacent property just we have no uh you know we're not creating so it any anything flows off the site into that um Winstead Realy also owns all the property around around this the other pieces of property. be easy enough to get you can see um now if you go up to the uh left hand corner which is the and there's there's that that wetland is kind of a shallow um depression in the bedrock and um >> it was it was it's been delineated uh in 1998 And then again by Malonea McBroom who's now SLA they uh and they came up the exact same flat because it's basically you know a bedrock feature. So and it discharges to the what was Cory's land with this not >> No.

010>> Um but you can see we've set back any proposed excavation uh quite far from that you know >> and actually You're seeing the full five faces >> right there. That's the limit. That'll be the limit of uh the flat area and then and then it'll be angled up to the top of the hill. So, >> do do you you have a pointer, right? >> Yeah. >> It's very difficult to read what we have. It's teeny teeny. These aren't Yeah. So, it's it's almost impossible to read the grades on the on the plan we have. >> Yeah. So, um I would like to know when you say we're gonna stop right within are you stopping within 100 feet? What's the you know where does I can't understand from looking at this >> 100t away >>

011where the work starts and stops? What >> what delineates where the work is happening and where it's not happening on this plan? >> Well, you're the you're the guy. What what the the the area I mean first of all that area is not going we're not going to be excavating out into that area of side of the quarry. >> Well, it just says phase five includes this whole area and the wetlands is in it. >> Correct. >> So I can't understand from this plan >> where the excavation starts and stops within phase one. >> We would have the the all this all the wetlands obviously flat flagged off for us. They would install markers, permanent markers, just like we do when we delineate other areas of wetlands. So there would be a 100 foot set

012back from any of the areas that we'd be escing. So we would have, you know, a delineation markers installed and then it would be 100 foot set back from any of the wetland areas that would flag. >> You should probably get that on the map. >> And what about Yeah. And then what about how the new grades are going to be in relationship to whatever the elevation is of the wetland, right? Because you could create new contours that would result in runoff into the wetland from that excavation activity potentially. Right. >> Yeah. And uh Jeremy, I think on one of the later sheets we have a profile, but I but I believe we have a cross-section which would have showed that. >> Yeah, I think the profile goes east west. >> I mean, if I'm

013if I'm looking at this, there's obviously there's grading that goes pretty much right up to the edge of that wetland, right? Because you're you're excavating into these into the site and then you're going to have a pretty steep slope up. I mean, that's more than two to one. It's pretty steep heading up that slope, but it's sloped down and away from the wetland, not into the wetland, right? that as you're climbing the hill, they're excavating into the hill and the wetland is up on top of that slope. >> And this is this is north of Highland Lake Boulevard. >> Uh just right on the town line. >> Yeah. >> Um >> this is the first meeting, right? >> It's just the exception >> for the next meeting. It would be great to have plans we

014can actually read and study. Yeah. >> Yeah. We could do that whole supply that size. So >> yeah, I'll blow up just that section as a separate >> for my purp >> or on old route 8 >> toward the lake. >> Yes. >> So it's on between it's in between old Route 8 and the lake. >> Right. Right. And that stream that you saw on the on the north side that's not on that property actually I think >> starts from high you know somehow >> what scares me is going to cut into the rocks and all of a sudden you got everything >> my understanding was you're going to do it closer to the road >> as opposed to up where that wetlands is >> right >> Jeremy can you expand that map again. That's

015the whole map. >> Yeah. So, yeah, basically what you're um the orange is where the excavation is, the dark orange. Okay. >> The green and the red are >> existing contours. >> What do you hope to accomplish by all this excavation? >> Oh, it's a gravel pit. >> Gravel. Yeah. That's our business. That's what we do. We create earth materials. And so just like we have the other quarry up on Winstead Road. Um so this is just a continuation of of that our operations. We have we have a quarry in Torington as well that we're winding down this year. >> Right. So >> I thought that's what all the quaries along Route 8 were winding down. Why are we starting this one? >> Because we're running out of rock in our Torington quarry and we

016need more we need more earth materials. >> The other side of that hill is the lake and a lot of water moving on the ground. >> One point at a time. We own the land all the way basically up almost up to the lake and there's going to be a huge buffer between the lake and here. But we're not talking we're talking 100 years before that ever happens. This isn't this is a this is a long-term operation. This isn't something you're we're not even going to get approach those wetlands probably for 20 years. That's how long it's going to take us to get there. There's a lot of material here on the property to esavate. So >> you're not proposing this these phases are uh within the 20 acre uh the former pepper property. Correct.

017Right. >> We have not done anything beyond that 20 acres. We do own the property beyond and to the uh north and stuff and that >> you know there's no plans for that right now. This is all within the the the the pepper property that was approved in the past. >> Right. Okay. So, so what you were saying was um Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. I just figured I'd bring up the map real quick and show them right right exactly what we're talking about. We're talking about this parcel here, >> right? >> Yeah. >> But the part the parcel that wraps around it that's sort of an L shape, if you will. That is also owned by >> that's owned by AJ LLC, >> which is the same owner as >> it's it's one of it's

018a joint ownership >> separate separate title. It is separate right now. >> It's Danny's property. >> So on this map, I would think that the quarry number four or whatever it is, this is a we're call quarry 3. This is further south than where the marker is pointing now. Correct. >> The the highlighted parcel is the parcel we're talking about. >> That's where And where where would quarry number four be? the uh it's south of Mountain Road or the the road coming down from the lake. >> I'm I'm confused. What do you mean? >> It's all in that it's all within that. >> Yeah. That green thing every one acre. >> I think we're just getting confused because you also mentioned the 150. >> Yeah. I'm just saying that we own that. Yeah. That we're

019saying that this going to take even for this parcel here. here. It's going to take multiple decades to work on this property. >> Uhhuh. >> Where's the property? We we just sold you just sold this. >> It's up. Okay. So, right there. >> Right there. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, we don't have butt to it, but it's close. >> Yeah. So, we're pretty far away from Long. >> So, um am I understanding this right the only part that you're excavating is where the red lines are and towards the middle, >> the orange lines. >> So, seeing here is is uh that um what's confusing here is a overlay of a new survey over the old survey. And so we need to make that a little bit there's no >> um >> but you have plenty

020of buffer it looks like. >> Oh yeah. >> Um >> what are the green lines? >> Yeah. >> What are the green lines mean? >> Those those are the green and red are just alternating uh topo lines. >> Okay. >> And they are Yeah. But when you say everything within the orange is what you're planning to excavate, >> right? And then that orange part it will be slope. Everything in the middle between inside the orange will be flat >> from Tarford Road to the top of the orange closer to the ceiling. How how far is that >> roughly? I don't have a scale, >> but but everything above the The thick orange line is not being excavated, >> right? >> I didn't. Oh, there you go. >> Thank you. Roughly >> wetlands here and here.

021>> So, you're measuring from Tarford Road, >> I mean old into the property. I suspect the old road >> not the old road. >> No, not the old road. >> Origin existing. >> Yeah. Okay. From the existing road. All right. So that's 250. It's it's so it's 120 ft to the property line from from where the where now there's all all evergreens. >> So that's 120 ft from where Jeremy is down to back to the road. >> Okay. >> And then in from there to the limit of >> go up to the top. >> Okay. So 40. Yeah, 900 ft >> approximately 900 ft. >> Approximately from from the prop from the set back off the rope from where the arborite line is basically up to the top is is about 9 about approximately 900

022ft. Those arbor vites were all part of the original application, but they were all part put in and they're all well established now as well. >> Based on the approval that they've received in 2002, give or take. Um, from a wetlands perspective, what has changed that would affect this application? >> Not a whole lot. uh you know we had to have them look at the storm water because storm water guidelines from the state have changed. They've got to treat the point 1.3 inches now versus one inch and you know new best practices straw bales rather than hay you know all those all those factors but this plan is essentially the same thing that was approved 23 years ago. There's really not much in the way of anything. >> How about groundwater? >> What about it?

023>> Well, if it's there we hit it. It's going to start moving. >> Yeah. Although I think that whole hill is lead so you're not going to hit much water. >> Yeah. And it they had they did have a soil scientist soils report. I don't see the soils report in the packet but >> do we need independent engineer to review this plan? >> Yes. >> So we've been having conversations. This has got to go to PNZ as well. So we were going to send it to the town's consulting engineer to do that review. Yes. So you'll you'll receive a copy of that report too >> via PNZ or via us? Uh, well, we're going to send it at the P&Z level either way. >> Will they address wetlands, though? >> Well, we'll we'll have them

024do a holistic review. Yeah. >> Okay. Is it reasonable to assume that that'll be complete by next month? >> We're going to try. >> Yeah. >> What do you >> uh Tom Grimmaldi HL Hill? Yeah. >> I have a question to just to clarify what Frank was asking. Do I understand it right that all the whole excavation area is going to filter or grade into that number one? >> Yes. >> We changed the grading lines from what Pepper >> that was one of the changes >> that was cheap flow off >> everything the whole property flows right to there. That's what Yes. >> And the overflow would go into catch basins on the street. >> No, it does not. It goes it if you go it comes out of the bottom chamber goes into the

025pond that's that's already existing and then there's a pipe that goes under Torington Road and then it gets discharged in the in the water course >> into the water. So none of it hits the system >> into the still river. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Right. So >> that's filter. >> Is it filter four times? >> One, two, three and four. >> Right. Yeah, I mean the key is going to be obviously maintenance of those of the four bays and the and the >> originally they had some other ponds and then they were going to be piped into the the the basins and stuff and so we decided to do away with that and just sheet grade the whole thing towards those um and increasing the size of them dramatically. >> And all the material that

026goes into those ponds you're going to sell, right? You pull out and sell it. >> Well, I mean depending on what's in it. Yeah, certainly. >> Stone dust, I would think. >> Absolutely. >> It's not junk, >> right? Um the original plant was one basin. I mean you know one chamber basin you know which was the you know the old now that this is the you know this is the currently best way. >> What what information do we need for next month at this point? >> Well I I would love to have a drawing where I can actually see the grades and also to know if we can visit the property. >> I know I should have my magnifying glass right. I'm at that age now. We'll do an inset map around the wetland and

027and so that means that'll that'll get blown up as a as a full sheet >> and and would you mind that >> for next month instead of Jeremy controlling the mouse with one of you two control the mouse >> that's fine you know you did a good job but we can take we can take over that if you want >> but could we for right now zoom in at the top where the excavation is going to stop >> and just look at the trade. So, >> yeah. No, actually, if you go to the profile sheet, >> it'll show that. >> Okay. Which >> I just want to know sort of like >> I think it's sheet. >> I'll scroll to >> once you get to phases three, three, four, five. What is going to be

028the elevation differential between where you end and the flat area once the excavation's complete? >> For floor of the pit to the top of the grade. >> Say that again. >> Floor of the pit. >> Yeah. >> To the top of the grade. What is that? >> Thank you, Gary. >> Don't forget a different >> right every two years. Is there a maintenance schedule for the uh >> is it 800? >> So that's this. So this this green one here is 780, >> right? >> But it goes all the way back to where the >> the lines get to be multiples. >> It goes to right here. I mean that that's the that's the top that's at at the wetland there. That's the uppermost >> revised grading line. So that looks like was that 806

029805 >> 810. Well, that's 810 there. Yeah. Is it 8? Yeah, I guess it is 810. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, it's 780 to 810. What's that? 30 feet. >> 780 is going to be the bottom >> bottom. That's the green. That's this green line here. I mean, it steps up, right? This is This is 7 >> 28 >> 728 7 Oh, 28. No, >> 728 730. >> 730. Okay. >> 730 to 810. So, 80 feet. Talk about needing your glasses. I'm far away so I can see a glare. >> The other thing would be to put that 100 foot wetlands on the plant. >> Anything else, guys? >> Yep. >> Uh, so we're not excavating where the line curves and says 820. Not it's not happening there or it is happening there. I'm a little

030confused. >> Yeah, that gets sloped, too. Those are all Those are all revised grading lines. All those red and green ones. >> Okay. So, so >> they're just smoothing it out. They're >> still being graded but not excavated, >> right? >> Graded but not excavated. So, above the thick line, the the multiple lines that are all sandwiched together, there's no more excavation. >> Not Not as part of this application. >> Okay. >> Do you own the property further back? >> Yes. when you went back to where you had that outline, that highlighted land, there's a whole piece of property surrounds it and that's owned by AJK >> and you were saying something about that using >> being able to use that property to create buffer. What did you mean by that? If if we expand

031this quarry operation after this after this approval or what or after this operation, if we so choose to, then we come back and expand the quarry and move up into this other parcel north of this piece here and then it goes all the way up to where the development is up on Highland Lake. And we what we're saying is there's gonna be plenty of buffer if we were to expand this quarry and keep working up towards the lake. There's still plenty of buffer of of all kinds to do between our quarry operation whether where the development is and the lake is >> right. Yeah. I mean, but the lake's not the only this property slopes away from the lake. The bigger concern really is the Still River, >> I would say. Right. >> But we're

032not That's not part of this application of anything north of this. All we're talking about is this 20 acre piece right now. I was just saying that it could in the future, but that's that's not what we're we're looking at right now. >> I don't even know about that. >> All right, guys. Any other questions or concerns? >> Concerns, but we'll vote on that. >> All right. All we're doing is accepting. There was a couple of things that we'd like to see for next month >> and it's necessary Jeremy. >> Do you have that? >> Hang on, Mary. Sorry. >> Meet with Jeremy and Jeff. >> Any clarification? You know what would make it a little easier for some of the members would be a cross-section of your south boundary and a cross-section of your

033north of your west. So you just top it >> kind of bring it out and how it comes down a lot lot steeper. >> If you could just give a cross section. >> I thought it got >> we thought we had it in this one but I just >> I know we profile from from the right >> from old Winstead Road up that way. So we already do the back when I do the West. >> So you see it you see the proposed going up on how it's finished. The only thing I would like to see is and again the distance between the end of your property, not this parcel, but the end of your property in terms of where it touches toward goes toward the lake approximately how much further do you own back

034there back in that direction. >> Okay, that's all. All right. Any other concerns? Is there a motion to accept this application? >> Make a motion. Make a motion to accept WWC 26- >> old Route 8 Winstead Earth Excavation Earth Material Processing Second. All those in favor of acceptance. >> Unanimous. Okay, gentlemen. Thank you very much. >> Yeah. very much as I don't want to see you guys you guys know that I don't want to see devastation. >> Next application is 26-4. The applicant is Brian Agnney Savannah Home Improvement. Anybody hear from that applicant? 508. Thank you. West Wakefield Boulevard. And it's a postf facto application for the causeway reinforcement tree removal rating for walkout basement new well and other site improvements. >> For the record, introduce yourself, sir. >> Hello, I'm Brian Vicki improvement. A

035lot of attention came to this site recently from the commission uh because when we got our packets last Friday, it began our role in sort of looking at what you're proposing. And I guess what we discovered as a result of some of us visiting the site and talking to Jeff and other people, other personnel, uh there's a lot being done there that wasn't approved at all. Uh some of it was supposedly the commission asked the applicant at the time to come back to the commission with more information and all of a sudden everything seems to be moving ahead without approval. So that's where we're what we see now. >> I don't know how accurate that is in your mind. >> Specific options items that weren't approved because I did get >> I think it's the

036causeway work was not approved. >> The causeway work certainly wasn't approved. >> Well, that's a conversation conversation that I had that >> we didn't have it. >> Well, it wasn't a wetlands issue at the moment, but it was a necessary home improvement. We looked at it sort of as an emergency repair based on the amount of heavy equipment that was going over the causeway. >> It was emergency because >> it was not >> the causeway could have gone. >> But still had that been there a month before that when he shouldn't have come to us. >> Yeah. >> Oh yeah, without a doubt. >> And once we knew about that, we said >> it was only an emergency because you >> that we need a permit application to be put in. >> Right. But it

037was only an emergency because you didn't guys one at a time. Let's just >> Go ahead, Jeff. >> It was only an emergency because you didn't come to us first to get to get a permit. That's what made it emergency. >> Well, there were capstones that were falling into practice doing anything. >> Okay. >> So, if if the supportive structure underneath wasn't stable enough, there's more emergency. >> We meet every month. Well, we can also have special meetings. >> Did you call anybody to check to see if it was okay >> until someone reported it to Jeff? >> Prior to doing any work, Jeff and I spoke about it. He said, "Go ahead and proceed >> before you c with the concrete." >> With the concrete, correct? And then we talked about it further. Excuse

038me. We we were hoping to do the same thing on the the dock is but we said at that point we would need a permanence. >> What is your what is your plan for that cos? Do you have plans on reconstructing that once you're done? >> Would you get a cos trying to bring all the ground >> and Eversource is working an ement for you guys to bring the meter box prior to the >> causeway. >> What we would like to do is scrape the top of the causeway because it's just >> Well, this is the problem. You You have no You have no plans on reconstructing the walls on the causeway that the things that you poured already. You've encroached onto on the town property >> with the Senate. >> Yeah. And that was

039told at a meeting here and I and unfor unfortunately you guys weren't here. It was told to Jeff unfortunately it was said to Jeff after he had given you the okay to go about doing it. Okay. But we went to Jeff and said you cannot go any wider. We are refusing plans of other people on the lake of going out three inches. You went out eight inches on either side at a minimum. Okay. By pouring that. All right. which you're, you know, me sitting here, I would say take it out and recome and when you're done doing it and you're done with your house and you're done with your big loads, turn around and come up with a plan to rebuild that causeway to where it's supposed to be within the limits of what it's

040supposed to be. >> Okay. The for the forms of the causeway were buted up against the bottom. >> Correct. But they had to stick out so you could get the cement in. >> But we used high flow cement to get between the rocks. >> Let's let's assume that you didn't even stick out. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. It was still done without a permit. >> That's the bottom line. And had had there been a permit, the commission would have been involved in listening to the presentation that somebody would have made to us and we might have asked for an independent engineer review that aspect and what the applicant is proposing and then we would have given permission based on what the engineer would say to us whether we moved ahead or not

041moved ahead. That that whole conversation was absent from the commission. Okay. So having said that, it it puts us where you should be on the defensive. We're on the defensive because something happened now and we have to remedy it. And uh one of the proposals might be, you know, if the commission deemed appropriate, pull everything out and uh have a an engineer of your choosing design it, an engineer of our choosing review it, and then put it back in. That's a possibility. We usually have even on a on a on a wall. Okay. Just a seaw wall. We have an engineered plan. Okay. Seaw wall doesn't doesn't handle a load. Doesn't handle dynamic load going across. It doesn't have out pressure going across it like a loaded cement truck or fire truck or something like

042that coming in. Looking at it to me. All right. You know, I took pictures of it today. Saw it. It's outside of what it was. All right. No ends, ifs, or buts about it. There's no ties going across. There's no rebar in it to where it's tied from side to side to hold the walls in place. >> Okay. But an engineer would have an engineer would have designed it. >> You know what I mean? >> There are ties into the existing >> above us. You know what I mean? >> There are ties into the existing >> I'm sorry. Say >> into the existing. >> There are ties into the existing. >> There are, but we can't. We don't know. >> But the wall tied into a rock that's falling down to start with makes no

043sense. They usually tie from side to side, >> which is why we use the high flow cement. >> Goes from side to side. But I guess my biggest concern, and it was when when Jeff brought it up, all right, is that we're trying to stay uniform with everybody. And we have refused people from putting two and a half inches of concrete on the face of their wall because it encro just keeps stepping out into the lake. this stepped out under an emergency repair and it didn't fall didn't fall short on your part, fall short on our part. All right. We could could have called a special meeting for an emergency repair. >> Only only if we knew about what was going on, >> right? But that's what I'm saying. Say we could have called, you

044know, emergency meeting to where you could have had engineer design it, get it done and done, right? >> So my question is why was it an emergency? I mean >> because he couldn't access anything over there, >> right? But when did you know that? like the day before. >> I didn't Well, we could access it with our pickup trucks, but none of the dumpster companies that we would talk to or anything. >> When did you find that out? >> Shortly after, you know, we're trying to figure out how we were going to get all the debris out for the >> So, at that point, you really that was when you should have come to us. >> That was two or three months ago. You know, really >> what was >> when you started the project

045is when it when you be it became obvious like eight months ago, >> right? >> Well, yeah, we were leaving the but we were leaving the dumpster at the road at that point, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Right. >> But I think the point the guys are making is that there was a very large amount of time between the time you recognized that those trucks couldn't get in and the time that you asked for permission to do an emergency repair. There was ample time to put in an application. >> Understood. It wasn't it wasn't on the forefront of you know you said >> but you're on a lake >> actually it's the uh >> you're on a lake >> it's a home owners >> which is a wetland >> right. So so that really needs

046to be on the forefront that that whole property is surrounded by a wetland. >> What Jeff what other concerns should this commission have besides that causeway? I know they a bump out or to direct access to the lake. >> Yeah. So, what brought me there most recently, uh, after a call from Commissioner Clawson of new activity going on there, uh, basically the entire site is disturbed. >> Yeah. >> Uh, there was some silt fencing in uh, but it didn't encircle the whole property. Uh, trees have been cut down, stumps not removed, but the trees down, >> some of them have >> they're going to be they're going to be removed. Sure. Some of them haven't met. >> Well, the stumps can't be removed. >> Some are pulled away. >> When they're in somebody's way, they're

047going to be removed >> if they're within the review area. >> We don't usually have to do it properly. >> In any event, after that visit, I made it clear that, okay, you've got to come in for a permit now. We've got to get all this straightened out. Uh I believe the sill fencing and um tubes went in the next day. >> You started the day you came. >> Started the same day. Okay. Uh, I did go out today, take fresh pictures showing that all that had been installed. Uh, some of the felled trees are still in place that need to get taken out of there. Um, but this is >> everything else. Is everything else permitted? >> Well, so yeah, he's got all his building permits and that kind of thing. And as I

048was explaining earlier today, >> was that all done? >> They've been pulled as, you know, as needed and that kind of thing. But I don't review every building permit from a wetland standpoint or really I don't review every building permit period. Uh it's just not part of the normal course of >> operation built. >> Yeah. >> The whole entire project's in area, >> right? >> So no wetlands permit was pulled >> and went to zoning went to building. >> Uh no, it wouldn't need to go to zoning. This is a >> it just went to the building department, >> right? Shouldn't it come? I mean, shouldn't they realize that they don't have the wetlands per minute and say, "Stop. You got to go back." >> If if if the building application only reflected changes to

049the existing house, no footprint changes, but they're, you know, taking out walls and putting in headers or removing windows and doors and residing and roof and all that wouldn't come to wetlands. That's all existing structure. No changes to the grade, no changes to the lane. >> You said anything done on the shoreline comes to us first. in the building. We have no we have no we have no control over a building. >> If it Frank is if it doesn't >> disturb the property then it doesn't come to us. But the point is there's a ton of disturbance on the property and it didn't come to us. >> The entire property in effect has been compromised. >> Correct. >> Sure. and and that's already an area with a great deal of uh nutrient load that comes

050in from Suckerbrook, right? So, >> yeah, >> more nutrient load into the cove behind the property is, >> you know, potentially really problematic. >> How >> which isn't good for the home >> based on the application in front of us now? How complete or incomplete is what they're asking for on the paper on paper? >> So, you've got the site plan there that shows the erosion sedimentation controls. I think we need a little bit more detail on what some of the what the final product is going to look like and what the final landscaping is, what the if there's any grade changes. We need to know those things. I think the the working with a landscape designer. None of those plans have been finalized. The the area I I know that was of concern was

051brownish box there would be kind of there wasn't the basement there. I don't plan to do anything elsewhere anywhere around property except wells of course. >> Well, that whole walk out basement area it's probably 100 ft from the water give or take. >> Oh no, that's 64 there. >> Less than 100. >> It's like 40t. >> It's close. So it's closer whatever. >> And you're excavating to be >> and that's just a that's just a mess down there. You have a silk fence that's not going to contain very much if we get a heavy rain or anything >> which we just got and we will get more. >> Uh well once once the we took all the the material most of the segment out already the pile that's there right now is everything that needs

052to back fill for the footers. So once we once we get that that board that into what was there except for the there were I think >> is that area from the house going toward the water that we're talking about going to be grass or it's going to be pavers or >> from the actual walk out itself or I'm sure there's going to be a little patio out from the walk up the rest of grass right >> so we're going to need we're going to need detail on the patio in terms of footage >> yeah I don't need all that >> that's what the landscape working so I can >> Okay. So then the landscape architect needs to come in for permit. It sounds like the landscape architect needs to come in for I mean

053>> yeah we need surface coverage counts and all that >> with machinery like that all has to come in here. >> Yes. >> Are you putting any footings and foundation in outside of the existing building >> to do that? >> Nothing. No concrete work outside the >> Jeep perspective. What has to be done to stabilize the site? >> Well, the first step was to get some controls in which he has. Uh >> I don't think I mean from what I saw today and Jeff saw we happen to be there at the same time. They're questionable as >> but perhaps some matting needs to go down. Uh you know I don't we're going to need the landscape plan. Jeremy and I were just talking whether or not that should be a separate permit or could all

054be included into this permit. There is enough time. Uh I don't know what the schedule is from the landscape architect. >> I I know the homeowners working with her. >> Okay. >> Directly kind of >> What about the straw? Are there straw bales here? >> No straw bales. There's the tubes. >> Tubes. Okay. >> Yeah. Uh but if the landscaping plan is going to be ready in time, then you know we're going to need >> to establish grass again temporarily, even if it needs to get torn back up. But you know the >> what has to be done tomorrow to stabilize this property, never mind six months from now. Seriously, >> honestly, I don't know what they can do tomorrow because they're still moving equipment around. that's just going to continually >> you know we're

055getting >> what do we need to do to stabilize the property so that they can move equipment around without compromising the lake >> and pushing nutrients into this >> the only thing they can do to do that is surround the piece with sil fence and it might have to be a double wall sil fence if you feel it's on a you feel it's on a steep grade there maybe should be a double layer of sil fence or >> or put the waddle in the sil fence behind it you know what I mean that's all you can There's nothing else. >> And you could I mean you could dig you could go around with a small trench on the inside of that perimeter >> so that if you get a heavy rain and material runs down

056you're you're esavating. You know what I mean? That's a problem even with sil fence like we're trying to get away from sil fence and put the water in the sil fence trench itself to trench the sil fence in the way it should be >> creates another ravine for water to travel and erosion. So the only way to survive, you know, they have to work. They're trying to do their walls. They're trying to do everything. You want to s you want to in encompass the area from the outside. So they have they can work. If you start to put stuff inside, it's going to get knocked down. It's going to be in the way. Just surround it. Armor it >> on the outside edge. I also have a question about the silk fence being right at

057the edge of the property. Like the the h the where they're working isn't right up to the edge right now. >> Water out there. You put water on the outside if anything gets through the fence. You wanted a double. >> I guess what I'm saying is if we're going to double, if we're going to request a double, then perhaps there should be a first layer of defense that is as close to the working area as it can be without >> you run it over. This is what I'm trying to What I'm saying is what I'm saying is I don't know if it's 10 feet or 12 feet, whatever. What is a safe distance from the working area to bring to pull a perimeter around the working area so that it is a first line of

058defense and this fencing and waddling at the edge of the property right next to the lake is the second line of defense. >> You're going to have two out there, not just one. If he's going to pull stumps, where you where you going to go? >> The stumps can't happen until we see a landscaping plan. >> Why? >> That >> he's in he's in an upland review. He's not in the wetlands. He's only in a review. He can pull stumps out. I mean, not the stumps that are there are stumps right on the edge of the property. >> Yeah, I saw some lying sideways. >> You don't want to get them right down. I'm not talking the stumps down on the water edge where the roots and down into the wetlands. But to me, >>

059well, that's where they all are, Gary. If you look >> to me, how I would approach it is I would run a double the double layer on the outside edge so they can work around their property and get their stuff done. If you're going to try and run individuals trying to run up into the work areas and stuff, it's going to get run over. It's not going to be doing anything. Right. >> As soon as the um the walls are poured for that walk out, those that heavy machiner is going to be out of there. We will upgrade back to it. I can't put that second layer >> First layer of defense in there probably wouldn't be too much of concern about running. >> Where are so now you're now your landscapers come in? Landscapers

060are going to work all the way down to the water's edge. >> Yeah. I think that's a separate permit though. >> It doesn't make any difference. You're taking the house. >> Exactly. So, so hear me out. >> Okay. They don't have their landscaping plan together yet. If you look at where the trees were removed on this map, where they're marked, they're all within 100 ft of the lake. Okay? All of them. Nothing should happen to those trees in terms of stump removal until we see the landscaping plan. The landscaping plan is going to create a tremendous amount of disturbance. He's not the landscaper. He's doing the construction work. So if it is not going to be in his way between now and the time that the landscaping permit comes before us, I believe that a

061first line of defense that is not right on top of the perimeter of the island, right, that is in as close as we can get without inhibiting his work would be the best thing because this is a sloped property and we are about to get a lot of rain and the property is very disturbed. Then I don't believe it because I believe the fact that you're going to have to tear it all up when the landscaper does >> of course that's but that's >> but why why if you can put your perimeter on the outside edge which and I'm not going to throw back that in my trade I've done it over and over and over for the state. That was the way of going about it and that's why I'm throwing it. >> But

062what you saw today was suboptimal. >> It was >> and not doing the job. >> That's why it's got to be done right. should be out to the outer edge so everything can be done. Landscaper comes in later on. You're not tearing it up and putting it down there again. You're not tearing it up and moving it out there again. You've you've encapsulated it. You've encapsulated your job and that's off to the side. >> Jeremy with George Jeff rather in your opinion where should the uh sense and the uh remediation protection take place? I I it's it's a barrier of defense. I agree. Generally speaking, you you go on the outside edge of the work area. I think in this case, if we've got construction activity and then we're going to have a lapse of

063time before the landscaping gets done later, I'm going to suggest that some grass matting be put down for the spring so that we can get some grass to grow in there. I know it's going to get torn up, but if you read the soil and erosion sedimentation control guidelines from the state, you're not supposed to leave soil exposed more than I think it's like 15 days or something like that now. So once you're done, I think we're probably going to want to see some grass matting down on everything that's disturbed that's going to stay undisturbed until the landscapers come in as a temporary remediation. leave that burm at the at the water's edge, the waddles or silk fence or combination of of all those things. To me, that's that's how I would suggest it. >>

064And if they did that, then I wouldn't be asking for this. >> We're going to ask you to do that. >> All right. Sure. So, as soon as we get those machines out of the way, we can lay down sit down tomorrow in the next >> roll. So, Jeremy and Jeff, so you understand exactly what we're asking for through them and just meet our needs. >> Absolutely. >> All right. >> And and improve what is at the perimeter right now. That's not It's suboptimal. It's not working. It's not going to work. >> Well, I'd like to see whatever is whatever we're asking you to do. Today's Thursday. By Monday it should be we'd like to see it in. You know, it's not a lot of time and you may have to divert and bring people

065in to do it. >> That's fine. I just don't It's It's the steel bags. >> It's what? >> It's the It's the steel reinforced um silk fencing. So >> I don't know what else you want with the hay. So I'm not sure exactly what else. Once you reinforce the the silk fence on the water's edge with the hay and everything else, then Jeremy is suggesting that you put the uh >> the grass down. Yeah, but I have to get the machine out of there before grade before the grass down. >> Right. >> So, yeah, I can't do that by Monday. >> No, once you're done with the machinery, >> right? You know, then you're done disturbing the site >> as as soon as um so I could probably get that machinery if you can get

066those walls poured. Tuesday, Thursday. >> Well, it's supposed to be nice for the next >> is a week reasonable to have the machinery out of there. >> A week from today? I don't see why not. >> Okay. So, let's aim for a week from today. >> As long as we can get our inspection on that wall. Keith, >> I I can help with that. >> Okay. Response. >> Keith was on vacation last week, the building official. So, >> yeah, but >> a lot of the issues that we're bringing up would have been alleviated had a permit come before us a couple of months ago and we would have had time to discuss this and work in a in a a more sensible sequence than trying to back up and and and do it the ass

067backwards ways. I typically when I build pull a building permit and it's done online I had to see it go through PNC and sometimes a fire button is usually on the entire list of checklist so when I got the building permit there was no wetland review >> okay I'll I'll accept that >> I apologize >> yeah no use the board >> um we're going to leave for now we're going to leave the causeway wall the way it is >> until we we settle everything else >> and you feel comfortable that >> it's sturdy enough and the construction will allow you to bring trucks in and out of there without any harm to the anything falling into the lake or crumbling. >> Okay. But we're going to address that, you know, down the road. So, it's

068not a matter of we're forgetting about it. It's a matter of let's let's deal with what's immediate in front of us now and we'll work our way back to what can be done, what we have to address later on. >> Okay. Then question. >> No, you go ahead. I I'll hold my question. >> What What would you prefer I do now with the logs that are down and the stumps? But there are you know there are a lot of fel trees and some brush to take off site. Uh, >> can I remove those? >> There's a pile of brush stumps by the the garage that's on the right side of the property that can be taken out by driving out the driveway. Those have to come out for us to do. Well, but there are

069some in the back that are almost acting as a natural silk fence. They're kind of like a barrier. Took a couple pictures of them, but there are some areas where >> I would have to think that your brush your silk fence or water is going to have to when this landscaper comes in, right? That debris is going to go, would that debris go that you're talking about later on? >> Well, I'm hoping to get that out. So, >> there's a difference between debris and stump, >> right? >> The trees and the branches and stuff you were just talking about that's on the water's edge. >> Yeah. Is that going to lead >> you want to look at the the large the larger site now? >> Okay. So, to the left there where the the proposed

070well is up a little higher. I'm sorry. Where the old one was. >> Right by that garage to the bottom side of that garage. Right there. Exactly. There are some stumps, limbs, all that kind of stuff. That all has to come out for us to get the machine in. >> Yeah. >> To dig the well. >> Yeah. >> Along the bottom edge there where the blue is, those green trees, those trees have been felled. And the actual trees laying on the property kind of like to the right of where the new well is going to go. green. Yeah. In that area. So, I guess I'm just wondering if you want to >> if it were me, I would I would clean up the site. >> I would clean up every whatever is on >> stumps

071all over your mess. >> Whatever. Cuz it's a machine that has to take them out. >> Yeah. >> They clean. Whatever's on the ground, get rid of whatever is standing. Leave it till your landscaping guy comes in. Do you want to go around with an orange can and spray everything? This way there's no confusion as to that. >> Well, if it's down, it's down. There's >> I have a question. >> Your well, when is your well going in? >> Supposed to be the end of December. So, they wanted they called they wanted to do it uh two weeks ago, but the snow pile was so high on the trees I couldn't get. >> All right. The problem with the well and the problem with the well where it's gone. Where your sediment pit for when

072they >> We had the sediment pit dug and then they never did the well. They got backed up and then we had to fill this bit back in so >> well that's what I'm saying you see before generally before well takes place especially within 25 ft of the lake >> we have somebody comes in and says this is how we're going to go about it this is our sediment pit this is is >> that's health us it's us we don't want the erosion >> from a sediment they have to blow out the well you know that's coming out stuff that's coming out >> where's the sewer line on property up front. >> Yeah, there there are actually two of them that run under the causeway. One breaks off to the left, one breaks off to

073the right. The sewer line is uh the tan area where the walk out is. It's Yeah, it's to the top right corner there. It's between the pink line and the brown light brown area. That's where the cleanout is. And then it goes down to what is like the changing room building. That's that's the right. Yeah, that >> goes right in there. That's where the pump is. Pumps out >> and it goes over the causeway. >> Well, you don't know. >> We think it goes under. >> Oh, that's what I meant. >> Yeah, it must be under the lake because we can't see anywhere. >> I don't know. >> Would Jim Rollins know where that sewer line is? >> He might. >> I mean, >> possibly. >> It's only something to consider if they have to

074do something more extensive with that causeway. >> When it was before anything was done. You looked under the causeway through the rocks and there's a little >> waterway that goes through it. There's nothing to be seen even with that goes through it. There was no >> Well, let's be safe. We don't want to >> Let's back up a little bit. >> Back to the well in the in the in the in the sump area. All right. That's something that has to have a drawing done and it's got to go to Jeff or somebody that's got to that in it in itself has to be armored with hay bales or something. that nature, not just concentrating on the silk fence that is down here. You know, wherever your pit is going to be, you want to

075make sure that that's armored as far as because usually when you're blowing off a well and stuff like that, you end up with a lot of a lot of >> I was under the assumption when they applied for the well permit that that was told to them because they did pay. >> The problem is you applied for a building permit, nothing came here either. But that's part of our program is the erosion control and the erosion control is part of the flow off of the well lake. >> Is that separate permit? >> Well, the well permit would have comes from Torington Area Health. This is a problem I've run into in a lot of places, especially when you got a regional health district. They issue the well permits. We don't find out about it until

076the work happens. In this case, we know it's coming. >> So, let's get a plan in place for the pit >> and how you're going to armor around it. I mean, since >> that's part of this. >> Yeah. Yeah. Add it to this application so they don't have to do another application, right? Yeah. >> Let's make the wetlands application a complete, robust, thorough wetlands application because this is a little hodgepodge. >> Yeah. My preference would have been to roll the landscaping plan into this as well and do it all all as one package, but it sounds like that's a ways off. So, >> Well, yeah. I mean, it's worth asking how close they are because if they're close, that'd be great. to get that done, too. Get it all done at once. >> The only

077thing I would like to see is for next month, I'd like to see the the application proposal to be complete. In other words, it's it's it's limited now. It's sketchy, but you know, I'd like to talk about the well location approval, you know, things of that sort. so that the landscaping uh improvements, you don't necessarily have to have all of the detail, but let's include it in the narrative so that what we approve is on paper somewhere. >> I think where where some of the things fell down on on your part is anything within 100 ft of the lake, which was >> with your whole place within 100 ft. >> You know, you've got to dig a trench from that well to your house, don't you? you got to come to us before you can

078esavate in that 100 foot area. So your whole island >> any excavation that takes place on that island should have come. >> You're surrounded by water. So no matter where you turn, it's 100 ft, >> right? So that that's why I highlighted where we need to trench, >> right? >> Trenching that needs to be done. So >> right, but nothing ever came here. And if the well went in a month ago, you'd have dug the trench and we wouldn't have known about it and there' been more problems. >> So let's be clear. Everything that comes onto this application for the next meeting needs to have clear methods and means, right? That has to all be detailed for us. >> Any other questions or concerns? Any issues? >> I do have a question. Go ahead. So,

079this garage um are you planning it has a lot of peeling paint and it is hanging over the lake. >> What is the plan? Are you the person who's going to handle the painting of all the structures also? Are you going to oversee that? >> Okay. So, >> well the house we have no plans at this point to >> to touch the garage. >> Okay. All right. because somehow that message should get through to the homeowners that there is going to have to be a a plan for how they're going to get that paint off of the garage that is hanging over the lake without getting all of that paint into the lake. Right. It's it's an old structure. It's probably lead. I mean, it it it's there the re remediation plan there has to

080be very thoughtfully done. I can put that in here. >> Great. Thank you. >> So, basically what you're saying anything done on the island, they're going to have to come to us. >> It's got to be part of the original plan or so plans as they progress >> to doing what they want to do. >> Modification. >> Do you need something for that? >> Well, I mean, I'm trying to save them money if they don't whatever they don't put into this wetlands plan. they're going to have to a mean permit. They're going to have to come in for another permit later. So, if they already know and they have the methods and means and they have a plan together, it's it would be great for them to bring it in, get it to us before

081the next meeting so that they don't have to go through this over again. If they're not ready, that's fine, but that just means they have to come again. So, I'm just trying to save them time and money. had enough. >> Are you the general contractor for this project? >> Okay. So, you're overseeing everything except the landscaping. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> I mean, I'm involved, if you will. Okay. >> But I'm not I haven't seen any plans or pricing. I'll be there. >> Is this your first project on the lake? >> This on the lake? This? Yes. >> Okay. >> But you've worked within wetlands. >> Okay. So, you Well, property was surrounded. >> Right. Right. Okay. >> You know, all that stuff down at the shore. >> All right. Without, you know, finding or

082blaming or anything like that. Let's just put it together so that we can move ahead. You want to be successful. We want the project to be successful. So, longer to meet our standards and everybody will be happy. >> Appreciate it. >> Okay. >> Um, is there a motion to accept? appropriate. >> Well, that say no. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's just accepting tonight. Frank, >> you want to make a motion? >> All right. I'll make a motion to accept IWWC Sierra Home improvements post facto application of causeway reinforcement, pre- removal, grading, walkout basement, new well, and other site improvements. Second. >> All those in favor of accepting. >> Did someone second? >> Oh, sorry. Unanimous. Okay. Thank you for coming. I would suggest you sit down with Jeff and Jeremy for sure. And so you have

083a a good understanding uh where we want to be next month. And uh let's move ahead with the project. >> Yeah. But clear clear methods and means for all planned work. uh with drawings that we can read as you know engineered plans wherever necessary. >> Yeah, >> that that'll come about at the meeting. >> All right. Thank you. >> Next application is 26-5 Jonathan Abrams uh 632 East Wakefield Boulevard. Per limit existing dock and replace existing ramp float. >> Yes. For the record, you want to please introduce yourself. >> My name is Jonathan. I'm a coowner of asking for a permit for the drawing of it. And before you begin, uh, I'd like to thank you because you came in before us a few months back with steps. >> Yes. And I brought up the

084issue with whether your dock was permitted or not >> and we left it up to your integrity with >> right >> town personnel to find out yes or no >> and apparently the answer was no and you did come forward. So thank you for that. >> So I there was a pre-existing dock that was falling apart an extension a seasonal part of the dock. So, I replaced that with a dot that's on the property now and it's aluminum and it's roughly the same size what was there before. So, I'm asking for it back in. >> Okay. So, there's three sections I saw on the on the property today. One one for the ramp and then >> Well, there two it's there's it's really two sections. There's three pieces, but it's two sections. How far out

085from shore to the tip? >> It's going to be 40t. >> 40t. Okay. >> And the float is 8 ft square. >> 8 ft square. >> But it's not a float, right? >> No. >> Stabilized. >> It's stabilized. >> Right. Okay. >> But the application it's float. >> Gotcha. Quotes. I see your quotes. It's 24 square ft. >> Okay. >> The whole area >> and it's in from the lural boundary for where the permanent structure is. You're just going out in the same location. >> Yes. >> Any boat lift? Anything like that going in? >> No. >> Simple. >> Yeah. Simple. >> Easiest one. >> What's that? >> The easiest one. Yeah. We should have put you first >> with tires. >> Yeah. >> You wore yourselves out. >> You know what? >> Any any

086concerns? >> No. Other than that, >> I don't think we can. >> It is a wetland permit, so you've got to wait. >> The truth is they're not nothing's going in the water until next month anyway. >> There's no urgency. We're not you're not asking in June because you want to use it now. >> The problem, Mr. Abrams, is that there's a there's a provision in statute that says it has to be on the agenda for 15 days before they can issue a permit because they meet once a month. They're stuck in this >> position where they can accept it tonight, but we have to approve it at the next meeting. >> Yeah. What I ask is would you be willing to approve without him here next month? >> Is the coowner available? >> No,

087she's not. I don't think there's any concerns on our part. >> Right. So, >> no staff concerns. >> He's here. We got to ask all the questions. >> It's just we have to for >> I don't care. Yeah. It won't go in until >> That's what I'm saying. >> Probably mid April the earliest. >> Yeah. We're not hurting you in any way because of a delay. >> I've already been hurt. >> Thank you. >> But I got the steps put in barely. It's almost all done. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Good. >> Congratulations. >> All right. Is there a motion to accept? >> I'll make a motion to accept application uh IWWC 26-5 permit existing dock uh replacing existing ramp float. >> Second Amy. All those in favor of acceptance. >> Okay. Thank you. Good

088luck with your project. Uh, agent determinations, guys. >> Uh, no new determinations. >> Gary, you could handle the next item. >> Maybe you ought to fill everybody in. >> Uh, the 130 the wake the violation for 139 West Wakefield Boulevard. >> Yep. Next uh court date has been set. The exact day escapes me now. Uh July, I think July 9th. Yeah, that sounds right. See, Gary's an expert. Uh and there's a good reason for that. Uh Attorney Nelligan used very specific numbers or measurements of the Babbage Dock, etc. in the court uh filings. And now we need to back up where those numbers came from. And the best of uh our collective recollection uh reviewing the tapes of the former meetings and and so on and so forth is that these numbers came out of

089the meeting that we had with attorney Nelligan, myself, Gary, and uh the chairman Molinelli. And I think a few different sets of numbers were discussed in that meeting because, you know, no one got an exact measurement, right? We were just laying tape on it. Uh but we feel that Gary's numbers are probably what was represented to the court. Now, all that being said, one of uh Bab's codefendants uh is also supposed to go measure everything and put those numbers into the record as well at the request of Judge Roarback and we will reconvene in July to continue to discuss this. And that's all I have on the matter. >> The codefendant is one of the 1% owners. Yes, the 1% owners are all still roped into this much to their chagrin. Uh but that's the

090way it goes. Uh so yeah, they're they're still part of it. >> Were again only because of the way she operates, for lack of a better way of describing it. Didn't the people who had that 1% deed right >> for the season at the end of the season, they automatically or there was documentation submitted which gave that 1% back to her, >> right? That those quick claim deeds were all uh pre-executed and filed uh on a specific timeline for the season. Uh but attorney got the the filings in before that ownership break. >> Oh, >> so they are stuck with it. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um does anybody who was on the commission at the time have any other recollections of numbers of measurements? >> Because I'm going to look. I

091think I saved that file. >> Uh so I'm I I'm going to go through it and see if I come up with something. Whatever I come up with, I'll share it with you. >> Yeah. and Gary if you know. >> Okay. Yeah. >> This way maybe there's some consistency. >> You're free to tag along to court as well if you like. >> Oh, I will. >> Oh, all right. >> July 9th. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yep. Uh even Babage herself in the prior proceedings admits that it's bigger, but she still keeps blaming her husband. And you know, you remember the whole ring, right? >> Yeah. >> All right. Anything else on that? >> No. >> Okay. Next order. for uh communications. >> Yeah, I spoke to Jim this morning. >> Oh, okay. Go ahead.

092>> Uh sweeping started downtown >> and we'll start around the lake next week. >> They're going to sweep all the sand into the potholes. >> Well, >> it's going to fill them smooth them out. >> He said following frost needs to stop. That's what he said. He said he filled them yesterday. I guess the day before, maybe today, too. >> Yeah, we're working on them today. Yeah. >> Um this year we had some large Oh, that was a >> I'm glad they did that piece of East Wakefield just by the beach >> because that was all the way across >> that was on a pass. >> So then they'll do the c they'll do the catch bations after that. >> Um he did mention that there was a a salt shortage and I've seen that

093on the news. Um so they had the same issue as other towns. So they had to mix the sand and the salt >> to make it go further, but they did not use that mixture around the lake. They used only salt around the lake and he was kind of >> wanted us to know that. Um so right now uh it's the level is the lake level is 29 in. It's supposed to be 36, but he he's struggling with it. all the rain we've had and the snow melt so quick. >> He he dropped it and it got out of control and it it flooded Boyd Street apparently. I didn't see that, but he brought that up. So, he's going to try to get it back to 36 in until the uh all the ice is

094gone. Then I'll close them up. >> And uh um so that's all that the uh he said the Holland Beach parking lot was going to be the first job to get paid. I went by it today. It was already paid. >> I don't know what he's talking about. >> So curving to be done. >> Okay. So, >> so that's the first job on the list. >> Um uh other than that, part of uh South Road uh the part towards Platill and uh Newfield Road was by 2027 and then Hollowberg going up the hill was going to be done this year. Is there any plan? You know, you could shore drive, just as an example, is one pothole from one end to the other. You just can't you can't drive straight. It's just, you know, is

095there any any plans in the somewhat immediate or distant future to address that? I mean, you know, putting these patches in is really, you know, it's just I think it's it sort of satisfies, you know, >> well, from what I understand, he he doesn't want to do that until he fixes the drainage, which makes sense. You know, you got to get the the culverts in and the drainage. I mean, that part from Shore Drive to Reisha Beach is a disaster. >> Yeah, you got to inch along that thing at 2 miles an hour. >> That's why I call that Sunday when Danny's couple went and they got they got it done. Rep from phase five. >> Thank you, SL. >> No, I don't know. >> We're really I mean, it's really it's dangerous >> at

096night. For sure. >> It is. >> You know, for sure. I agree. >> He's limited to how much money he has. I think that's the >> Well, the unfortunate part with the roads, >> you know, he's doing his best trying to get this drainage in. >> Once the drainage is in, it's not just go grind a road up. You have to regrade your road. you know, these basins he's putting in are catching a certain amount of the road, but not catching all the road. So, there's a lot more a lot more work's got to go into any kind of and and have it done, right? Just grind it, pave it. >> What's the road cost per per foot? >> You must have a mile. >> Yeah. >> Million dollars a mile. >> A lot of

097money. Is that from before any sub >> sub road that's >> still have to do drainage >> and then just like you said that's the big thing especially in town the drain the other is utilities is there any underground work that needs to be done in that park that's the other drainage are ledge >> right there's not by the Well, there's only five phases of it right over the side of the hill. >> Is it possible rocks every day? >> Is it possible for us to get a a schedule uh even after the fact of the catch basins that he vacuums out because that's going to start ask >> Yeah. >> You know, I mean, they keep a record. Somebody turns it in, you know, how many catch bases they did today, tomorrow, and the

098next day. Let's just know which ones are done. That's a fair request. >> Yeah. Um he want I mean he said he was going to start right on those right after he finished >> whatever >> finished uh >> sweeping sweeping. >> Yeah. >> Which we probably talking two or three weeks. >> Did a lot of puddles this last since Monday >> like they did short drive. They came in short drive. They did the other part of East Wakefield where they last week's >> you know it was below freezing last night again. So >> I know. >> But they came out with the tanks. I mean they heated the stuff and put it in. I mean they did. It was hot. >> It was hot patched. I can answer on that catch basin schedule. >> All

099right. >> The key, you know, >> some of these roads, I mean, when East Wford was out, you had to go seven miles around. I mean, I could go I came to the corner, I had to go around the other way. I'm not going to roll my cart. >> Yeah, I understand. I I go over it every day, too. >> Yeah. I didn't want to do it. I went around the other way. >> Anything with the Island Lake water shed? Uh nothing new except that if this I should have told you this. If this group wants to put something Yes. If the commission wants to put anything publish anything in the next newsletter, uh we need it by April 1st. Somebody was going to send something. Who was it? Russ >> in the last meeting.

100>> I think you're right. Throw him under. >> It was Russ. >> He's not here. Russ said he wanted to put in like a something about why you get a wetlands permit and what it's all about and what we do. >> So, uh >> something reasons why anyway. >> Yeah, >> I'll throw something. >> Okay, terrific. >> I don't know why I take on extra work when I got a few days to do it, but we'll do it. >> Our favorite town. Come on. That that expression if you want something done give it to a busy person. Yeah. My family learned about that when I was 14. >> Very convincing. Marianne is very convincing. >> What do you mean? >> Very get things done by other people to get things done. Get things done. You're

101very convincing to get things done. That's a compliment. >> Oh, thank you, Frank. Yeah. I was just saying to these guys, if you want something done, you give it to a busy person. And my family discovered that when I was 14. I would like to comment on that. That guy on that's working on the island. >> I just think all this work is sloppy. I >> I think I think we should hold comments on the on a pending application. >> I I did say it, but that's the issue. He's got logs going this way and that way and the S fence half up or half down. The whole site's just a mess. >> Troy, anything. >> That's why we have >> Hold on. Horseman >> to go clean it up. >> Yes. I I got

102a couple things I just want to throw at. >> Go ahead. I I wouldn't go to Jim RS. I'd go to Victor Dubber because he's the one that works these collections and distributions on that sewer line off the island. And you guys consider starting the meeting earlier >> instead of 7 o'clock >> about 6:30 6 o' >> some of them have jobs. >> Well, so do I. >> I stay here every night >> just as consideration. >> That would be hard for me. I don't have problem. >> All right. So, why don't we go upstairs? You guys don't have to do it. >> This way here. You guys can get in, get out. >> It would be hard for me to get here at 6:30. >> Oh, 6:30. >> 6:30. I could probably do. >>

103It floods that factory. And that's what's happening right now. >> I think the gate might even be a little open. >> Oh, it's open. It is >> almost drive systems coming up because the ice is still there, >> right? >> And the wall. >> He said he had so much water coming in >> that he had to drop the gate to get get rid of it fast, >> right? Well, it's filling up. I guess it was over the 36 in. Yeah, they're trying to >> he dropped it and he and and it got away from him and then it flooded Void Street and they trying to close it up today and so a lot of water. >> Well, I believe that problem is in the DOT hands now >> flooding like it does when they

104open the gates, >> right? >> This is an old water raceway. That's what it's catching. That bridge is not original to where it was. It was actually down when they first built some type of mill and they pulled the water bottle and turn the wheel. >> Um, anything happen with the selectman as far as the waring ordinances? >> Well, we we were going to send a letter. We haven't sent the letter yet because we were waiting to see if there was anything else from our the super group meetings, but I don't think there is. So, uh, you left that amendment of that letter with me. I will amend it and I will circulate it and we can send it. >> I mean, we want the the ordinance to be viewed as it is without any

105changes. We're not really >> the ones we noted. That's all we're asking. >> Yeah, we all we read through the letter. I think there were a couple notes you guys all had. I'll put them in place now because I don't think anything has come up from those two meetings that we want to address with the selectman. So, we'll we'll get that wrapped up. We'll get that wrapped up. >> Uh deep uh wakeboarding, Gary. >> Not just going to be in third bay. That's all I got. It's just not going to be in third. It's got to be out through throughout the whole lake or I'm going for a tax abatement. I'm going for something. >> Highle question on this. Um what is the like does the town have a plan for a next step in

106terms now that the wake boarding report is in it's not just up to us right it's the select >> no it's really I mean in terms of how that lake gets used it's really not you at all it's it's the board of selectment but you know I think if the if this commission wants to submit a recommendation to the board of selectment that would be appropriate >> so should we put together a committee that works on that and brings it to the >> Yeah. >> You want to be on the committee with me? >> No. What I'm saying is I mean I it's I don't think we need a committee. I think if you look at this and you take out the places that doesn't work, the bays and everything else, you're not left with

107much of the lake area that's even possible for this. >> It's a very narrow lake. It makes it tricky in terms of the dissipation issue. >> Right. >> Um and in some cases the depth issue. You're right. our our lake is a particular shape and set of depths and it it is challenging. >> But then you say, "Oh, okay. Everybody's going to say, well, Third Bay is the perfect >> is the the one area that >> meets the best doesn't meet everything, but meets the best of the selection." And that's unfair, too. >> Yeah. And it's >> push to push everything off to third base. >> I agree. And it's also not it's not even all of third base. I know it's one portion of third. So my answer is this length does not for

108us to say whatever maybe it's got to go to a vote but for us to say this length does not meet the requirements for weight >> I'm a very fair person what's good for one is good for all >> right >> that's that's >> I I I just don't think we can >> Frank what do you mean by it doesn't mean people not >> Hang on explain yourself >> okay there's a number of bay areas you can't wait for >> because of the depth the depth or the width. >> Mhm. >> Okay. And you got the narrows. Then you got bay one, bay two, and bay three. Basically, the way I read this is the only place maybe this thing would work or this would work is in bay three. And that to me is

109unfair to say, you know, I live in the other end. Yeah. >> Hey, it's no good for me. >> I don't think this lake is designed for wakewood. >> Yeah. It's basically like in front of Strongs Island until Bristol Cove, not even in front of your house, right before >> that's the problem. The problem the whole problem. >> But that's the that's the only place where actually the condition >> once you say there's a place then you're going to get the >> oh you live over there so you don't care what's going on over there. >> Oh yes. >> So I mean us as a board has to look at this thing as a general. Well, the way I see it is you guys are talking about the ultimate perfect scenario of 20 feet and

110600 20 ft deep and 600 feet. There was a lot of different opinions in that in this survey from all over the place. So, I think in order to make it more viable for everybody, we relax that 20 and 600 somewhat, get it on the map and see where if we can make some lanes. You can't release it. >> Maybe on two, maybe on all three of the lakes. >> Okay. I just the base of the base. >> You can't relax the 20. >> If you if you if you relax Hang on, hang on. If you relax the dissipation distance, >> that is actually about people's property, right? About whether or not people's docks are getting destroyed or their walls are getting destroyed. The dissip hang on, let me just finish. So, I just want

111to separate the issues. Dissipation is about property damage. Depth is about the water column. >> Now, the water column, I just want to remind this whole group that the only recent year where the SEI readings have been a little better was last year when we didn't get a lot of rain. Our if you look at the water quality reports over the course of the last 10 to 15 years, it's a steady decline. and lake water clarity in our lake. We also had a cyanobacteria bloom October of 2024. So, I understand what you're saying, but it must be taken on the whole with the reality of this lake because if this wait a minute, if if the quality water quality of the lake is accelerated in its diminishment because wakeboarding boats are churning the lake bottom,

112creating nutrients into the water column. that causes the health of our lake to decline faster, then we are not being responsible to your property value or yours or yours or anyone else's. >> I absolutely agree with you 100%. But is that a passable thing? >> Is that something that we could push to eliminate weight one at a time? >> I mean, >> I I I think that's asking too much. I think >> all I'm saying is do you want your property in 10 years to be worth half of what it is now? >> Because that's what we're talking about. >> Well, not the property. This is the dimension of using the lake. >> What I'm saying is if the lake >> becomes unswimable, >> unhealthier and unhealthier and unhealthier faster. >> Yes. >> Then we

113are not being responsible to the taxpayer. That's right. >> Do you think you could get that passed >> wakeboarding at all? >> I what I think is the discussion needs to be robust, >> right? So it's not just oh relax it a little because it feels good. It's like what's it actually going to mean for the water quality? >> I think first thing we have to do is we got to get a tow pole in the lake, right? And you got to understand what you have here, where the deep parts are, where you know where the cavern the canyon goes down through that exists actually. that we were having that discussion. >> If we have that, that gives us a little bit of our other thing I think we have to look at too and

114we don't push it >> is I don't personally believe the wake boards are doing as much damage as a fertilizer. Okay. But we don't touch that fertilizer program. Nobody wants to tread there. >> I agree. I absolutely agree with you, Jerry. >> I'd be happy to >> I'm putting it into the lake. >> Correct. Fertilizer. I've been using that for years. >> I'm putting it into the lake. It's going to the bottom and then the wake boats are stirring it up again. >> So every time I put the fertilizer in, it's once. Every time a wakeboard boat goes by it, it stirs it back up again. >> Well, it's a it's a very good point. And I don't think it's I Gary, it's not one or the other. It's both. And and you know what?

115>> And organic fertilizer, by the way, still puts nutrients in the lake. >> Oh, yeah. Fertilizer. Don't forget, you know, one of the things you said that the lake was better last year or whatever year you cited >> Because it didn't rain. But again, the more rain, the more contaminants go into the lake. Correct. From the sewer system because they go, it goes right in from >> And you know what this by the sewer system drainage, not storm drain. We have we have a lot of sloping properties on this lake, too. So, you know, like some of them have really good retention systems, some of them don't. Some are old properties, some are new properties, some have walls that are falling down. Like the rain is going to affect the lake even if our storm

116water management system is derived by God. >> You know what? >> Every lake wants to be a bog, right? I mean, that's what they do. They fill in over time. >> Lakes they utrify. That's what happens. That's what they do, right? >> You know, we're in a good position because we can objectively support and, you know, articulate a plan to deal with this whole wakeboard issue. The bottom line is we're not an enforcement body. >> So, you know, our role is not to find the excuses as to why it's not going to work. Our role is to say it's this is our recommendation recommendation and the most prudent way to approach it and let the powers that bec but we should make that first step in the foundation. >> Yeah. Uh you know the selectman

117have any interest in this has come up at all now. >> I know I know one one by the way rotting wood and leads also create problem in >> what what's the word? rotting leaves and wood. That's >> we have a solution for that. You have to listen. But >> now you're talking. >> There you go. >> And sometimes it is good to turn the lake up because now you're turning up the bacteria needs oxygen to survive. You have aerobic bacteria and anorobic bacteria. >> Sometimes it's good to treasure co >> that nobody wants, you know, wants to talk about. I think that wants to talk about treasure co. But >> meanwhile, on just a whole different note, drugs. >> I I think somewhere along the line we should have a conversation with the police

118department in terms of enforcement on the lake this coming year. We we play no role in that. But I think from a a perspective of wakeboards that uh are out on the lake and they're seen, do the police, can they recognize him? Will they do anything about it? U things of that sort. So I think that would help. Uh, you know, I would like to see some kind of a a regular schedule of of when that they're out there. >> Where do we stand with this? I mean, the state made, like you said earlier, the state made their report. Certain towns here voted on it already last year and eliminated it. A number of lakes west of us. >> You know, it'd be nice to find out the lakes that voted against it. Okay. And

119banned it. >> Can they? What >> what happened? What what kind of an impact did they have on their property values >> with that happening? You know, a lot of people have these wakeboard boats. Everybody's got 22 foot boats, 24 foot boats. 22 is a limit that's supposed to be on the lake. The wakeboard boat is a wakeboard boat where they they if they have it filled with ballast, yes, it's even making more of a weight, but they're heavy boats to start with. You can't make the people get rid of their boat. It's a 22 foot boat. The wakeboard vote is going to be there. It's just not going to have the schmuck on the on the wake on the wake. >> Okay. >> And it's not going to be going 8 miles an hour.

120>> That's the problem. >> I know that. But they do. But no, because at the time at 5 after 5 or whatever the hell it is on a Sunday. They're that's that's the only time I get a problem with a wakeboard boat is when they're just driving around coming around the around the edge. They're not down by my place. Wakeboards. They don't come down and turn at my spot. I don't have 20 feet of water. I'll bet you you got to go out 300 feet to get 20 feet of water. >> I I have a recommendation to Frank's point. >> If this body wants to align on a set of recommendations for the selectman to consider, I think we should have a public hearing and people should come and tell us what they think. I

121mean, I hate to say it, but >> you tortured me with the board of ed. Now you're going to torture me with >> Well, I mean, >> no, I but once we come up with a set of what we agree on, then yes, >> I think we should be through the selectment. >> I think there should be a public hearing and people that would be our recommendation to the select and the town manager setting up the >> the meeting, right? I think that's that order >> and they look at it and they make >> I think that order is fine. And I think if we're if that's where it's headed though, we need to be very thoughtful and considered in our set of recommendations. We have to be thorough. >> Yes. >> So, you know,

122I think that is going to take >> I'd love to see how >> not just talk for five minutes at the end of a meeting like we we should probably have a meeting where that's focused on this discussion. I'd like to see how it's going to be published in the paper when with Highland Lake boom bans wakeboards. The world's world's number one wakeboarder comes from Highland Lake. Okay. But we're just we're banning it. We're banning it. I don't believe I don't believe that. >> I'm not saying we're banning it. I'm just saying we need to have a robust discussion with one another and come up with a set of recommendations. >> I think we >> Frank's saying we have to ban it. I'm saying by the time you're finished with everything it maybe will be.

123>> But I do agree we should have topos and we should have proper measurements of the lake and I know you guys are doing comprehensive study so you know that should probably be part of it. >> Oh yeah, without a doubt. >> All right. Can we wrap this up? >> You good? >> Anything else? >> Make a motion to adjourn. I second. >> Second. All those in favor. >> Okay, ladies. Thank you very much. I got to go pick up the >> Which train station you got to go to? >> Um, he's coming straight. >> Oh, yeah. You got to go. >> Yeah, >> I know. I was nice. I was like, "Oh, honey, you don't have to come to Waterberry. >> You got to drive to Stratford." Is that what I just heard you

124say? >> Yes. >> Yuck. >> Life is complicated. I try to avoid that end of the state as much as I can. >> You know, my stepfather passed away and my mom needs like a ton of support right now. So, life is very discombobulated. So, I had to come back for her otherwise we would have been together. >> All right. Good luck. >> This wakeboarding stuff, we might have a fist fight in this commission. >> Yeah. If we're going to have a public hearing, that is the only item for that. That's a special meeting. >> I don't know that. Well, we'll talk about that. >> We'll let Jeff moderate it. >> I don't know that I don't know. >> I don't think wetland