001Good evening. It's 7:00. We're going to call to order the town of Winchester Planning and Zoning Commission meeting March 9th, 2029. Roll call first. Starting on the left, Scott Eisenhauer. John Twomey. Peter Barthen. Robert Clark. Adam Wolly. Adam Fogle the Wolly. And Rista and Jan and Charlene are all absent and excused. Okay. I think I got everybody. All right. Uh agenda review, does anybody have anything? Do you want to seat anybody? Seat anybody for Rista? Oh, yeah. We're going to seat Scott tonight in Rista's place. Uh agenda review? No. Okay. So, we're going to have public comment if anybody has anything they want to say that's not related to anything on the agenda. No. Okay. So, we're going to go on to the public hearings. PZC 26-1, applicant Ashley Holm, location 309 Colebrook Road. Proposal
002special permit for home occupation, cottage food operations, zone RR. Are you here? Is he Is he working? Should be. There for the There for the broadcast though, not for in the room. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, get that one. Get the Where's the microphone? Just need those red buttons. Microphone figure. There you go. Yep. All right. Wendy, what is it you want to do? Yeah, so um I want to open a cottage food operation out of my home. Um and learning all about that process has been an endeavor. Um but one of the major things that the state requires is that we get permission from our zoning commission, make sure that we're properly permitted or whatever we need. Um so I learned that I needed to apply for the special permit because that's the home occupation. So,
003essentially a cottage food operation, pretty basic on my end. Um we're in Connecticut, we're not allowed to have any like farm stands. We have to do person-to-person sales. So, the only sales that I would do would be uh handing off those baked goods, mostly cupcakes and cookies, um to people who purchase them from me either via like online sales or calling me to purchase. Um I don't plan to do much selling from my home. Um if you've been to my house, you know my driveway's a beast. Uh and I don't want anybody on my driveway. Way too much liability [clears throat] for me. Um so most of it would be done at either farmers markets or delivering food to people's homes. Um so really not a lot of impact to my neighbors in any way.
004Uh but it'd just be baking out of my own home kitchen, which is what's required under the cottage food laws in Connecticut. All right. Thank you Wendy. Board, have any questions? I have none. I don't have any either since you're not going to sell from home and you're not allowed to sell from home. So, uh seeing no questions. Scott? John? I'm good. Everybody's good? Signage? Yes. Uh no signage. No signage, no nothing. All right. So, we're going to close public hearing PZ 26-1. Um I propose we Okay, I'll vote. Yep. We'll vote later. Yeah. Thank you. Unless we get to the old business. You want to vote for closing it? Uh Yep. Everybody in favor closing the public hearing? Okay. You made the motion, Peter. You second? >> Okay. Yes. >> [cough and clears throat]
005>> Now we'll vote to open PZC 26-2, applicant Paul Signor. Uh on behalf of Bachelor Apartments, location 179 Pratt Street. Proposal modification to existing permit for affordable housing. Zone TCF. All right. Yeah, hi. This is Paul Signor on behalf of the owner. Okay. Yeah, thank you very much for allowing me to do this today. I know we've had a couple of cancellations due to storms and now I happen to be away. All right. Share my screen? Yes, you can. Okay. I can see that, so you can as well. Um thank you very much. Paul Signor, architect Signor Associates. And we were here before and we had a special permit for the Bachelor School. What I'm showing you here on this rendering is the revised entrance location. >> [clears throat] >> Um it was up in
006this location right now. We simply moved it down here. So, the the changes that I'd like to discuss tonight are uh relatively minor and they do not impact any impervious areas. Uh so, originally we had 50 uh 35 units of housing. Uh 53 bedrooms. What we are proposing is 37 units of housing and 56 bedrooms. Um previously permitted, we had 53 um bedrooms. Uh required of 40 parking spaces and we were providing 63. So, now we have 56 bedrooms, need 42 spaces, and we're providing 62. You can see from this calculation that we are still uh over the level parking requirement and the same quality to apply now. And in this particular diagram you can see up here in the upper left that originally we had an exterior vestibule and covered entry way and there
007was parking right along this side of of the building. What we've done and this is related to the interior changes is that we relocated and removed where we removed that vestibule, we relocated the covered entrance down close to where at where the existing entrance side is to the building across at one point. And we have a covered walkway at that place and then we relocated some of these parking spaces. So from the site plan originally on the left you can see that the driveway into the building was our original vestibule. We had cars parked along this area and then down into here. And then what we did is we relocated the entrance right down in this area and relocated these parking spaces up into this zone where we had the original entrance. You can see
008this was all impervious area previously and it's all impervious area now. So we're not uh increasing any. We have this roadway the roadway into a small parking space right here that was catch basin. It's a tricky area for parking so we have to include that zone from the parking but that's where we have the one parking space we have. Uh this is the exterior elevation that you can see originally this was our entrance vestibule with projection and now we just have that cantilever and it projects through the face of the building. >> [clears throat] >> So if we can get into the interiors a little bit I can show you part of what has also been revised. So here was that vestibule that we've been talking about and that's been relocated. Now originally we had
009a very large open very large internal space that [clears throat] had a great deal of common area. What we've done is to reduce some of that common area. We still have the multi-purpose space that was uh important and to to our client and we have a larger area for maintenance. We have [clears throat] still have the um fitness area but we've reduced it down from seven to eight pieces of equipment down to three. The laundry area did not increase in size and it actually uh you know in in in still in a very good central location. Um the tenant storage that was over in in in the original location we actually took [snorts] that those individual storage areas and actually incorporated them into the apartments so we no longer need a separate storage volume uh
010because they're providing storage inside the apartments. So as you can see by the revisions we kept the apartment over to the other change test those two studios into a two-bedroom where we had common area we added two more apartments in from here and a studio was one studio in here. Here's the common entrance that's coming through the offices for our staff. Our staff are located and here are the still the common fitness and laundry area that we speaking about. So this is one of the primary changes that brought about the increased unit size. The other one happened up in the other area portion of the building where we previously had a studio and a one-bedroom over here. This was a very small studio so we relocated that and we've actually added storage area that we're
011creating along this portion of the building uh to allow um an entrance from the exterior directly into the building which will make servicing equipment and freight current a lot easier as we come in through here. The elevator is right in this area so that makes that uh significantly easier. So again these are the you know minor changes that were doing here in the building that's um you know increase our unit residential count and since we were here for a special permit >> [clears throat] >> previously um we're here again tonight to show these revisions to that special permit. I'd be more than glad to answer any questions. All right. Uh anybody want to start or you want me to start? All right. I know when the uh the report that we got the town planner
012you have spots for electric charging vehicles. Yes we do. And where where are those located? Oh okay. All right. All right. I found it. I found it now. It's all good. Yeah [clears throat] yeah. None of those will be located near the building, correct? Yes. Yeah. Here's the note right into here so they're all right along into here. Like I said none of them will be located next to the building. Right? Not directly, no. No. No, they're not in the area >> [clears throat] >> and I mean they're adjacent in the particular parking lot but they're not on not directly near the building. Okay. No, I was just looking for that. So are those are those electric charging stations counted in your parking areas? Your your total parking Yes they are. Yeah, they're part of
013the the total number. So the other question that I have is your uh garbage truck's going to come in and then make a big swing and pull into the dumpsters. But your plotted uh >> [clears throat] >> plan here it looks like it's going to run into your overhang. Because I see where the anchors are for your overhang and if you look at your picture your overhang actually comes out a lot farther than where the legs are. So is it going to hit your overhang or you going to it's going to miss that? No, it it will miss that. The actual overhang and you can see it it doesn't extend past the sidewalk area. It does go past these diagonals but it doesn't not overhang into the drive zone in here so it does stop.
014Probably in and around about a foot or so back from this area. So it will not be the here. Um you know with with that. And you so this is this this radius was the original radius that we had presented before on how the detractor would come in and it does in fact this this everything that you know the parking spaces and also that uh that covered entry. And that garbage truck is going to go all the way up around the back of the school to turn around? Yeah, unfortunately you know that's the site. I mean you know we're up on the hill. We've got to have people any anyone that comes in with a large vehicle is going to have to turn around and come all the way around the backside and then turn
015around in the turn around area that we have. We can show you that. Now they're going to have to drive they cuz they can't back up. There's no way to turn around in this zone here because of uh grade and slope so they're going to have to turn around come back in here turn around and and drive up. So that that'll hold true for any vehicle um that was coming through the site previously and and also now. This was the way that we had originally permitted so that no change to that. Scott Well, I'm just thinking if they go up and around the building I used to plot it the roof sticks out like 3 or 4 ft. >> Mhm. Mhm. So when you go up there you're going to have to stay way out
016around the building go all the way along the back and then turn around some place and then come all the way back again. Yeah, the overhang does not go over the roadway. So and there are patios back there and there is a six street fence that does come out but the roadway does not go underneath that that uh that rear overhang. >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, unfortunately that you know that's the way the site um I lost my train of thought but that's Yep. Oh, I think it's back. Um yeah, that's unfortunately the the way that the site has been in operation and um you know still still exists today. There there simply is no other location for trash. The trash is pretty much in that spot. We've made that better. Our vehicles are just
017going to have to turn around as we we got as we discussed it last time. So, this issue came up last time about a vehicle having to turn around and before we were talking about like a landscape trailer. And basically said I recall that we weren't going to expand the turnaround area up top and I'm looking at it. And yes, we did not expand it. But if I'm looking at the radius turn that that garbage truck is taking to get to the >> [clears throat] >> the refuse. And if I just visually apply that to the upper half portion, there's no way they're making that turn and turn around up there. In in my opinion. I didn't overlay it directly, but I if I use the same radius you're providing to get to the um
018dumpster and apply it up top, I don't see them turn around up there. And there's also All right. Well, I mean we do have we could we have ample space back there to increase that and and we'll definitely plot that and uh submit that you know, to the to the planning to ensure that that that is met. You know, we are well under the impervious area. Uh so as as we are reducing a significant amount, so increasing that slightly if you do that so it wouldn't be a a detriment to the project, but I have no problems with putting that same radius back there and expanding it that way. And in telling your extra parking spots you've been talking about are up at the top there, right? Where where this garbage truck's going to turn
019around? There are some parking in here that that has always been there. Yeah, but they could come back in here, they back up and then turn around. So, they would radius back this way. They would either pull in back out and go up. So, I can change this radius, extend this or divide in this curve which would allow somebody to to get that and we could we could show how that vehicle could turn and then come out. >> [clears throat] >> I don't ever recall the garbage trucks going up back and turning around. I think they had enough room where they were to back up to the dumpster this thing. Come back out the same way. Yeah, the dumpster's back there. That's where they used to be. Yes. From school. Right up against the building.
020That's where the kitchen And will that road going around the school be paved? Yeah, it is it is paved now and it will remain paved. Yeah. Cuz we actually had parking back in through here and they used quite a few of the neighbors had and I think that our property would also wind up being an asset. That would be fully paved and maintained. So, do you have an alternative now that we're talking about it? >> [clears throat] >> Any any Uh The only alternative that I can see here because of the grades on this site is to extend and revise this radius back in the back portion of the building. For that truck to come down in here, back up and exit around the building again. You know, we explored a lot of other locations.
021We even explored putting the dumpster in the back of the building. That means the vehicles would have to drive all the way around to pick up the trash and then leave it the same way. We felt that this location would be more convenient to the particular because this is where the majority of the parking would be, so the residents can use this trash location. And allow the truck to pick it up and still go around the back. So, the only other location for the dumpster other than this spot would be in this rear area. Well, since And seeing The same >> But pertinent to leave the dumpster where it is because it's most convenient to the residents, then you've got a better chance of the garbage ending up in the dumpster. So, I I don't
022think that's an issue. I think what we're looking at is trying to get that uh garbage truck turned around at the top. I think that's where >> Yeah, as I said, I can change that radius that I'm right right in the area where my cursor is. I can widen that radius and extend this and I'll map that out and submit that back to the planner to make sure that we actually have that taken care of. What's that crosshatch area that's right there? I I can't see I can't see it labeled. With the four parking >> So, that crosshatch area was in fact [clears throat] existing pavement that we're actually removing as part of the impervious area that we're now making just, you know, a lawn area. And and and impervious areas. So, as I said,
023we are reducing it significantly. So, increasing the building more pavement again. Certainly would not change our coverage to a great extent. We'd be significantly under what the current drainage situation is on the property. I think we're talking about two different things here. I think Scott's talking about where the parking 10 parking spots are. Yeah, I'm just trying to prevent that right now. Yeah, but this is where the 10 parking spots are. And we're not removing that, right? I'm just trying to find a way to prevent the truck from going around the building. Cuz when you go around the building, um I didn't know it was paved. I haven't been there in a while and I know the roof overhang hangs way out and I know there's a drainage ditch that comes that's between the building
024and the slope. At the slope of the hill. Yeah, there's a drainage ditch there. There's a swale. >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, but the we're not you know, the drain the roadway is is is I said it is still beyond that overhang which doesn't come out. Um and there is a drainage swale that we are not changing. We're not increasing the width of the road. Um I too wish there was a different way to to turn the truck around as opposed to just simply backing up the way they came in which I don't think would be a safe way to to have anyone exit. Um No, I see something getting run into trying to back out of there. You know, trying to locate it. You know, the the one way one place to do it
025is is the one place that I certainly would not want to propose and that would be in the front of the property right over in here. Where the slope area >> Okay, that that that is that that is not a good location visually for a dumpster. No. >> For the truck to come in, pick it up, back up slightly and turn around. And stand this up. But if this is not this would be putting a dumpster in the front yard. Mhm. And and that certainly is not in my opinion an ideal location from a you know, from a planning standpoint or or park and recreation may not even be allowed in your zoning. So, this is why we've kept it you know, back here. It's kind of where it is right now. So, Mr. Chairman,
026I I think because of the length of that road and the access into that building in the back, they need to have turnaround back there for fire truck access anyway. So, so that turnaround has to be there. It's not ideal for the residents that the dumpster garbage truck is going to run back there once a week or how however often the pickup is. I assume it's probably once a week. It's not ideal for the residents, but you know, this this site doesn't lend itself well to to any other configuration. So, >> Right. And that's what I think we're all Yeah. >> thinking about here is there's not enough Right. The garbage truck around. >> So, I think, you know, you could do one of two things. You could either ask that a turning radius plan
027be submitted for your next meeting and review it in in a couple of weeks or you can make that a condition of approval where a turning radius plan for the back be submitted to staff and we'll review it and make sure that the you know, we'll take a look at it and make sure that the turnaround works. So, he just said he wasn't going to change the ditch. Meaning it's tight. If you're not changing anything back there. >> it is very tight. Unless you put a pipe in. I I don't want to add to the cost. >> it's very tight. I I could also review this with staff. I could provide a complete section which I don't have here to show you where that where that stops. I could add some protection around the corner.
028The wall will support people to drive around instead of coming you know, closer to the roof. I don't think they would hit it because but I can certainly do that and I could review this radius back here with staff and make sure that we have um a safe egress. I mean, you know, at this point fire trucks have to do the exact same thing. Um So, the turning radius >> see any comments on the turning radius from the fire department, so I I I thought we were okay. But I have no [clears throat] issue with with making it longer and making sure that the is is perfectly satisfied with that. So, the turning [clears throat] radius would be for the garbage trucks and the fire department. Right. And is this something you can have our
029public works engineer look at? Well, they'll they'll we'll get the specs on the vehicles that we have and and the the the garbage truck specs are pretty standard. It looks like he's already used those. So, we can take a look at it from that standpoint and we'll we'll send it to John. He'll certainly have experience with that. Yeah, we have 48 trucks on it. Right. Right. So, uh we'll get the specs. We'll get those over to Paul. Have him do a turning radius plan up there. We'll have John review it. Chief Chief Field take a look at it and we'll go from there. Are we good with that? I just don't like the idea of them going around the back. I but I haven't been around the back in 20 years. >> [laughter] >> But
030I know it was tight. But that was with a small truck. A 1-ton? 1-ton. Paul, you you've got the plans in front of you. How wide is that road that goes around back of the school? Before he answers, it can't be too wide because if he's not changing the ditch when you go around a corner, the drain or ditch is there. >> Yeah, I just want to know what the width is. And when you're going around the corner, you usually stick close to the building so my trucks would be under the roof. It's just not I think it sticks out 3 or 4 ft. >> Sticks out the roof sticks out quite a bit. Yeah, that roof is a Right. Yeah, at least it sticks out. At least that It's a long overhang. You can
031tell them a different location. I'm double-checking the fact that I don't see the I don't see dimension on there. We didn't read dimension I can scale it. Yeah, I I don't I don't seem to have that. I don't have the entire set with me. I'm sorry as I am completely remote. It's not perfect. Yeah. The radius you know, as I said, comes out into here. The building stops far of the back. I don't know. 22 ft. And the overhang is into here. So, there is clearly space. It's tight, but there's space. Yeah, it's about 20 ft wide. That's That's about right. >> Yeah, it's about 20 22 ft in some areas. Yeah. That's about right. I didn't want to guess, but since you can scale it, that's about right. Down here. Is that wide? Hello.
032>> [clears throat] >> Paul, about at the uh by the old barn there, you've got snow stacking areas on adjoining property. That's owned by the town. Do you have an agreement with them to put snow there? You know, I don't see us putting anything there. Well, there's there's three snow stacking areas listed here on our print. And it's on adjoining property. Okay. I'm just wondering if there's any any agreement with the property owner to put snow there. You know, I know that the town has been working with the owner on on the actual final agreements. Um I don't know if that is in fact um listed in there yet, but I can make sure that that is the case. Okay. Anybody else got any questions? I got Well, we talked about this again, the the
033point of contention, the the tight turns. Um I have been up there recently and um this being a two-way traffic, I know the trash truck's only going to be going out there I guess once or once a week, but there's no uh stopping somebody else coming up the other way when that trash truck's leaving. Um and there's two corners on here where that's going to be a problem. Not just because the corner of the building sticking out, but if you go west down that way and take that tight turn down at the end where you say you're going to be stacking the snow, um if it's any you ever have a winter like this winter, you're not going to see anything coming up into that turn to even see a trash truck coming down that
034straightaway here to that corner. You know where I'm talking about there? On the west side under area two, where you have a snow stacking area there by the corner of the building. You're talking in this town in here? Are you talking about over Here. Yeah. Right in there? Yeah. I think that's another that's going to be another bad spot, too. Not just that corner where the building sticks out, but there, too. Cuz I have driven up We have other areas where trash or trash where snow can be can be stacked. >> Yeah, I think if that were a yeah, a snow stacking area, I think that'd be a visibility problem just just knowing what it's >> we have a we have other areas that we can certainly use. We certainly have a front area that
035we can push things in or move it to if need be. If things get >> [clears throat] >> uh um you know, like like we had this winter, maybe. Um so, I think there is certainly a lot of locations on the site where it could be placed. Um if if if you deem the road areas right now were not um conducive, we certainly have other side areas we could go. Well, I'm trying to think what else would be going back there besides a trash truck. Um but I've driven a large pickup up through there and um if I encountered I've never encountered anybody coming the other way, but I can imagine if I did, even if there was no snow, it would be a difficult maneuver for two people to somebody's going to have to
036wait or kind of pull over or something like that, I think, Something. in this case. Um honestly, I don't see any other way around it. Um and this must have been a problem because if you go up there, I think even to today, if you go up there, there's a one-way street sign up there right at the end of that entrance, which is strange because No way out. there's no way out if it's a one-way street, right? Yeah, I mean, that [clears throat] I think it's just been there because it was a school. I mean, I think the road's wide enough to let it happen. Both directions. I mean, I granted it is tight. Um but I suspect the signage up there was more related to the fact that it was a school. Um not
037so much for the the the the width of road. Um So, yeah, I mean, maintenance is going to be important. We can look at other areas where you know, unusual situations like overhangs, snow would have to be moved to different areas. And keep keep in mind everybody, too, that that piece of it was all approved already. Right. So, we're here to talk about the changes. I do want to make sure that we get the turnaround radius right since we have a you know, an opportunity to work with them and make sure that that that radius fits the trucks that it needs to fit, but you know, the rest of that whole thing was already approved. So, we really can't kind of go back in time. We're looking at the we're looking at the the adjustments
038here. >> The only thing you did alter was the the entrance to the area. So, when we originally approved it, I saw the truck swinging closer to the building where the new entrance is now. Um and then being able to back out and do a K-turn to get out. Now, I suspect I don't think you could do a K-turn in that area. I think you have here a full-size refuse truck. Possibly a single axle or dual axle would would have a tighter turning radius and be you know, get in there easier. [clears throat] I don't know. I just don't recall the ever turning around. I've always seen them come up there, pull ahead, grab the garbage, and drive back out. That's probably what will happen anyways. It's possible. When the driver gets I'm not going
039up there. I'm sure the driver will He's telling me it's impossible that they make Yeah, they they think they got a different way to do it. But I know I do know that the garbage trucks that come up on our street now are usually single axle. Yeah. Not some big ones like damn axles. I just don't like the idea of them going around. If you can just make it work the way it is, I don't want them to have to spend the money on the turning radius as long as the fire department would be fine with it. Or even if we created a parking spot, an extra one, and put the dumpsters there just so we can back up to them and come back out again. I don't think he realizes the damage that some
040cowboy will be in the garbage truck shooting around the building cuz he's in a hurry. Just trying to keep it simple for them. Do you have anything else, Adam? The only thing else I have is should we increase the number of of rooms or occupancy? How how does that affect the parking? Do we need to add more parking? I saw I we only have 30 spaces, right? I'm sorry. Plenty of parking. Yeah, we're over parked by 10 spaces. There's 10 up in here. 1 and 1/2 times that. So it's it's 750 per unit? Yep. Yeah, that's the three apartments. Does anybody else have anything? I just wanted to ask real quick, what does the elevator do? There's an elevator? Yeah, to go where? To the second story. I didn't realize that. This is the sole
041upper building. Oh, I got you. So the behind building is south of the building. Yeah. Yep. I got you. Right. Yeah. Yeah, it is it is the only way to get doctors up here because of the grade and you need that elevator. So if everybody is good with staff reviewing the current issues. This is about the first public hearing and the staff You got to do public comment. Oh. We forgot We forgot the public comment. Anybody got anything they want to say? Once, once twice. I'm here with the chair of staff from Winchester. Um and as chair of the board of Winchester Housing Authority, I just wanted Bachelor was my grammar school. I was in the first class kindergarten through grade. And we're very happy to make this project happen. Anybody else? Okay. I'd make
042a motion to close public Close. One more thing. If staff reviews it with the with the applicant and they want to put an extra parking spot in or we are sort of okay with that. I've done it I'm trying to find alternatives for them. Oh, for for to to deal with the dumpster? Yes. Yeah, okay. There's there's 10 extra spots. Actually Yeah, a lot more than that. More than that up there. Yeah. 20 Actually [clears throat] we have Actually we have 20. 20, yeah. All right. I'll make a motion we close PCC 26-2 public hearing. I'll second it. All in favor? Okay, unanimous. All right, thank you very much. And thanks again for letting me be here tonight. Move things Yeah, move things around if I think that makes sense. Yeah, I'll make a motion
043to do an agenda review to move item C PCC 25-20 um after the old business into after we conduct old business A and B. Second. All in favor? Okay. All right, so now we're on to >> [clears throat] >> old business PCC-26-1 Ashley Home 309 Cambridge Road special permit for home occupation cottage food operation um zone RR. I motion that we entertain that. Approve. Second. Second. Okay, and uh anybody got any discussion? No. Nobody? Okay. You're good. All in favor? >> All in favor? You're good? You're all set. It's a long time coming. Yes, it's been a process. You've got the I have it. You were faster than I could pull it up, but I've got the I've got the draft motion for you, so it's you're all set. I was just saying I I
044know. I'm I'm working on getting the next one up for you. >> [laughter] >> So do we have to read the whole Yeah, no, you don't have to read it. This is this is uh this is the one we've got for Bachelor. I figured this is more important cuz you'll have I'll make a motion to approve application 26-2 special permit owner Winchester I'll read it from this. Winchester Housing Partners LLC Housing Partners LLC at 179 Cross Street proposal modification of the existing special permit for affordable housing is on town single family. Uh I would like that two conditions to it. One, a written agreement with the town of Winchester for snow stacking areas. And two, an updated plan with all radiuses shown for garbage truck and all town fire apparatus to be approved by the
045planning staff and the Winchester fire chief [clears throat] John Field. I can give you that writing so Okay, that's great. All right, I'll second it. Wait for you to get it all in and then I get it. Oh, that's all right. I've got it in writing. I'll catch up to you later. >> can read it. I can read it. You're fine. All in favor? Better than mine. Okay. You're good. >> [clears throat] >> I got to get an open public hearing for the Yeah. Okay, some of them are about to do that. I think I know who we'll figure that out later. All right, so now we'll go back to public hearings item C applicant Town of Winchester proposal update zoning regulation section 415-26 415-38 415-40 415-19 415-21 415-55 and appendix A use table. I'll
046second All in favor? Okay. Okay, so you know, the last time we met I think we were all pretty well content with where we were on the changes to the regs and the use table. Uh but I wanted a chance to go through and clean up any any last little typos or confusing points or whatever. In the office we were talking about the use table and the use table had ZP for zoning permit, P for site plan and SP for for special permits. And there was at least one or two conversations that we had with members of the public recently where they thought P stood for permitted meaning they didn't need a permit. So we decided that it might make sense to clean up the use table and just standardize our abbreviations. So what you'll
047see here is a whole bunch of purple which indicates the new uh abbreviations. So what we're looking at is A which is allowed and you're only going to find one of those in the use table and that has to do with our homesteading cart that we've been talking about. ZP which is zoning permits, SP which is site plan approval, and SUP which is special use permit. So we went through and and added those made those changes just to kind of clarify things. Um and so you'll see that you'll see that suggested change. If you don't like it, we don't have to keep it. That's fine by us, but that's just you know, we started to have these conversations over the last couple of weeks. Let's try to make this thing a little bit more standardized.
048This is how you find it in a lot of communities um and that way hopefully we can avoid the question of oh, it's P it means permitted. I can just do it without it, you know, so >> back into the topic now. So sometimes I have that P in there for permit. Right. A is allowed no permit required and all the rest is zoning permit, site plan, special permit. Not permitted. Not blank, okay. I think he explains it very well. If it stops confusion I'm for Okay. That's what we're trying to do. So I think I don't think there's any other changes in here. We had already talked about some of the stuff that we need to do for public act special session public act 21-25. So I think we made a couple of minor
049adjustments over the last couple of months, but for the most part everything here is is as it has been. We changed a few uses from special permits over to site plan, namely mixed use buildings here on Main Street. Uh we changed a couple of things from site plan over to zoning permit just to make the process a little bit more expedited. Um but but I don't we haven't we have not suggested any other changes since the last time we met a couple of weeks ago. So what's what's there is what you've seen. Uh just a question on this with with the updated housing bill things like that should we along with moving these until we get a better understanding or We could. Um do you see foresee change more changes? I I I I foresee
050the potential for a few minor tweaks to some sections that we did not include in the legal notice for these batch of changes. So I think it's okay to go ahead and and move forward on this stuff. Um I know a a few of you have registered for the session that we're holding on Wednesday night with regard to that legislation um and then I think we can really dive into Maybe at a later date. Yeah, because I you know, with that may come some mapping changes with regard to the uh allowance for parking mitigation zones. We may want to talk about that in a few areas. We've been kicking around some ideas. So, once we get through Wednesday night and you guys have sort of better better understanding that legislation, I think we'll come back
051to you with some of our thoughts that we've been kicking around for the last couple of months. And and like I said, that's going to impact areas of the regulation that are not under the the special the legal notice that we put together anyway. So, we'd have to we'd have to go back to it. They'll we can put an effective date that they're approved by and Yeah. Yes. >> Then someday we'll actually see a printed copy. Someday you'll see a printed copy. >> I mean, it is March. They're online. It is [laughter] March. It is March. What was your What was your I was told February maybe I'd see it in March. >> then we got into this. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know So, we don't make any more changes. >> You're right, and I
052will I will I will I will I will take it on the chin. We said February because we thought we were going to approve back in January and then we had a snowstorm and we had a this and we had a that. Yeah. I know. I know. >> [laughter] >> Okay. Uh and and then the the text of the language itself hasn't changed at all. I I I may have caught a couple extra typos here or there, but uh nothing has changed since 2 weeks ago. It's not changes great, really. It's a lot of a lot of updating that needed to be done. Yeah. Okay. I think last time we went through this it was pretty much up to date. I think it was one meeting I can't it was so long now I don't
053remember. It was January when we did it. Yeah, I think I think the biggest thing from the last meeting, which right was a month ago because we we missed the the meeting 2 weeks ago. Uh was I had asked for extra time just go through one more time and make sure that the language was clean. No, that's appreciated very much. Uh cleaned them up a lot. Wow, good work all around. Yeah. Good work to all of you. Did we take out um for retail smoke shop we took out and or contains the areas for consumption of smokable products? I know that was uh we discussed that. Let's take a look. I think I made that change during the meeting, but let's double-check. After a combination above. Yep, it's removed. Yeah. It's gone. Yep. So, do
054we want to close the public hearing and act on this tonight or we want to hold off a little longer? I I if the commission's comfortable moving forward, I'm comfortable. I don't think get it done. And then and then we can start fresh in a couple of weeks or a month on the new legislation. Start all over again. Giving up on them. Um I'm good. You're good? No, I feel good about it. Okay. So, I move to close the public hearing. 25-20 25-25-20 Second. >> Second. Yep. Done. All in favor? Okay. So, let me move on to old business PZ-25-20 applicant town of Winchester proposal update zoning regulations sections 415-26, 415-38, 415-40 415-19, 415-21, 415-55, appendix A use. So, make a motion to approve these. Second. Scott? Go ahead. I'm good. You're good? Yep. I
055was rushing about. I'm sorry. Did you Did you second it? I did. Okay. All in favor? All right. You're good. Now, we move on to new business PC -26-3 applicant Roxanne O'Neal location 150 Ashley Road proposal special permit from home occupation cottage food industry zone RR. Do we need a sub submit a public hearing? Yeah, yes. Yes, do we need a public hearing for this one? So, yep. And Ariel. Um so, I'm just going to be baking. Be good? Actually, we're just accepting tonight. So, we're setting a public hearing. Yes. So, I'm good or You're you're not good. We're we're going to set a public hearing. And we're just accepting it and then application Yeah, we're accepting the application. Okay. And from the first one or earlier one, you know, what questions we're going to
056going to ask you to say something, but tonight we're not doing any business on that. We'll accept it. I'll make a motion to accept schedule a public hearing for PCC 26-3 on our March 23rd meeting at 7:00 p.m. Second. I'm going to hold you off on that for just 1 second because I think the 23rd is less than 15 days and we've got to do public meet notices and she's got to get a sign up and all that stuff. So, Yeah, so April Yeah, April 13th is your first meeting in April. April. I change to amend that motion to public hearing. It will be April 13th at 7:00 p.m. I change my second. Oh. You second it, John? Yes. >> Okay. All in favor? Okay. April 13th. We'll see you on the 13th. Thank you.
057Have a good night. You too. Okay. Now, we're on to other business. >> Other business. So, Go ahead. I was just going to ask about the class on Wednesday, but >> Yeah. So, that's so, I I've mentioned this the last couple of meetings, I think. Um we've sent out the flyer. We've sent out the registration. That is uh Tyche has hired Halloran & Sage to run this meeting. We'll do some bits and pieces of it. Some of our staff will do bits and pieces of it, but it'll mostly be Mark Brants and uh Ken Slater. It's free for you all. It's for our client towns. It's fully online. It's at 7:00. We ask that you register cuz that's the only way you're going to get the link to go to the meeting. It's 2 hours
058and it's worth commissioner training [clears throat] credit. So, we will give you those 2 hours if you attend. Um and because it's the housing legislation, it you get that 1 hour of affordable housing commissioner training credit. Okay. Well, you know, that's okay. Stack them up. You're you're okay. >> [laughter] >> So, uh you know, we we've got the registration, so we know who in our towns has registered. And if you, you know, if you watch it, we'll know that you watched it. Um and we'll give [clears throat] you that credit. We're not going to send you a certificate. It's too much work for me. But but we'll know that you're there. We'll get the We'll get the We'll get the link tomorrow. Yeah, you should have already gotten the Oh, yeah, you'll get the link
059to get into the meeting. Yes, if it hasn't if it hasn't hit your email yet, you should you'll get it tomorrow. Cuz that's Thursday night. It's Wednes- It's Wednesday at 7:00. So, we look at the email you sent to us and then sign up if you Yeah. And I included if you got if you got a PDF version of my report that went out late last week for this meeting, there's a link in there to it as well. So, we can send the link again if you don't have it, but I just I'll look. I'm sure I have it. Yeah, it's a Zoom it's a Zoom meeting. Um and like I said, it's free. It's it's 2 hours. You do it from home. And it's going to cover that legislation from top to bottom. What
060is the hours requirement for hours of training? 4 hours every every 4 years after your first year in in your in your post. So, I encourage you all to go. Uh all the towns [clears throat] I work for encouraging everybody to go. Just it'll give you a good baseline. You know, we we had something similar for staff. Jeff and I went to a thing in Cromwell >> [clears throat] >> a month ago. Sure. That was led by the COGs. I think this will be a little bit more in-depth and this will be a little bit more of the legalese because and that's why we brought Halloran & Sage on. They are you know, they're they're keyed into everything that's going on in Hartford and they are the heavy hitters in land use law for the
061state. So, we figured let's get the the best and brightest to get the best interpretation of this thing we can. >> [clears throat] >> So, if you can attend, great. I think I've already signed up. I think you did. I did. I got the link, too. You got That's all I've got. All right. So, we have a public hearing scheduled for March 23rd for PCC-26-4. So, you have said previously that we do not have to accept them. That they can be done another way. Yeah, it it's it's essentially automatically accepted. Once it walks in the office, it is [clears throat] automatically accepted at the either 35 days after it walks in the office or at your next regular meeting. Um per statute. Whether you take action to accept it or not, it is accepted at
062your next regularly scheduled meeting. So, we've talked about this in in office to try to expedite [clears throat] things a little bit. If you would prefer if the commission would prefer rather than bringing it here, doing the acceptance and scheduling, if the timing works out because we because we have a month in between for for legal notices and signage and all that sort of stuff. If an application walks in, we can look at the calendar date and tell them the next meeting that they can hit uh from a from a standpoint of legal notices when we can open the hearing. Which could save a couple of weeks. Yes. Okay. Yes. And it [clears throat] it gives >> time to do all of that because, you know, it's not like they're going to walk in on
063a Thursday and and open a hearing on Tuesday. It's going to be at least you know, not even the following at least 2 weeks. >> walked in tomorrow with an application then instead of waiting 2 weeks Right. >> they could start tomorrow, right? For their 15 days. Right, it could. We could get them If If it walked in tomorrow, we could get them on the April 13th agenda for a public hearing as opposed to coming here March 23rd and then getting pushed to April 27th. So, what does that save them? 2 weeks. It would move these some of these people that have got these little businesses they want to start, it would move them along quicker so they know they've got an answer Right. >> and they can do their thing. Yep. So, we would
064eliminate people like her coming in to say I I get it. It's just like if we can expedite out All right. And and for the smaller things like that, I mean, any larger ones we should see it beforehand. Yep. Any larger ones I think we would bring it to you to to give ourselves the added time that we need for any expert reviews or, you know, other departments to review or whatever. Right. Right. But, there's plenty of other towns that do it this way. When I worked in Southington, nobody came in for an acceptance. It was just automatic. I'm all for that to move the smaller applications through, let these people know waiting for weeks depending on when they first came in that they know they can do what they want to do. So, I'm
065all for that. Say something to a parent so they don't have to come once instead of twice. You got anything to say about it? These are all special permits, right? Yeah. All I had to say is the general site plan or special permit either way. The general public do does have two chances to see on the agenda of an item, right? When when it goes in for acceptance of the public hearing and then when Yeah. That's the other thing I was saying. So, they don't get the notice. >> If we're going to accept these ones in they should show up on our agenda that they've been accepted somehow so people do have that second time to date accepted by the planning office. Or we can even put a note at the bottom scheduled here a
066public hearing scheduled. You know, after after the adjournment we can put a note at the bottom of that and and list your upcoming your upcoming uh uh >> business you can put the applicant and say, "Listen, it's coming in uh we're having a public hearing on 4/13 for this person." And Yep. Yep. Yeah, so we can do that. have another time there for the public to see, take it, you know, see it instead of just when the public hearing is happening. Sure. They can see it's happening. Okay, it was going to happen on this date. Plus there's two legal notices before Right. Two legal notices, mailers to the abutters, a sign [clears throat] goes up on the property. There's plenty of notification. I bet you most people that find out about public hearings do not
067find out about it because of the agenda. They're finding out about it because they got something in the mail, they saw the sign. I think a lot of people do look at the agenda. You think so? Yeah, cuz I I Well, it can't hurt. It doesn't hurt at all. Oh, no, it doesn't hurt at all. I'm not arguing against it. I've had people question me on things that they see on the agenda that I'm like and they'll they'll ask me Yeah, we'll put it on the agenda. That's easy. Yeah, I mean, I think it's only right. Yep. Okay. Yeah, we're good. Do we need to do anything other than a conversation on that or we conversation's good? I think there's no motion needed. No, no no no motion. >> [clears throat] >> I mean, just
068to bring it to your idea, it's a good idea. Okay. >> [clears throat] >> Approval of the minutes? Other other business? I talked to you just some Are we ever going to see a site plan for the Union Pin property? Yeah, uh we met with Eric 2 or 3 weeks ago. Uh he's made a lot of progress on that. He's made a lot of changes and He has made a lot of changes. I will say we've been on site multiple times. Uh we talk to him anytime he wants to do something. Um I know you notified me that he started the demolition. Um He may have told someone else in the office, but in any event, we've been working with him and we expect to see it sometime soon. I don't know what soon is
069exactly, but Is that Eric Rhodes? What's that? What that's Eric Rhodes? Eric Richard at the marina. At the marina. >> Oh, for Union Pin, okay. Yeah, he's got across the way. Yeah. Tiffany and Pickens, I think. Oh, god, no. No. We haven't started down that road yet. We have We have seen the plan. An engineering [clears throat] firm has been hired to develop the rest of the plan for for the Union Pin site up there. Yeah, yeah. So, it it does exist and it is forthcoming. Like Jeff said, we're not totally sure what the timeline on that will be, but there actually is a plan designed by an engineering firm. We're getting there. Essentially, it's going to be parking and boat [clears throat] storage, but the plan will show the maintenance facility building that he
070would like to have. He doesn't know when he can actually put it up. Actually put up in the future. Yeah, future. And we've suggested that he show that building on the plan. And you know, it's a 5-year approval. He can get 5 more years extension on it and hopefully 5 years from now he's I've had people asking me and I said we have no clue when. So, what aren't you a planning agency in Southington? Um Yield and Chestnut Okay, for Castle property. Yeah, I reached out to the owner there and let him know that even though he's working on his end goal of what he's going to be doing, that the commission would like to see an intermediary permit there just for transfer yard situation as he's using it now. Uh and he indicated that
071he would get on top of that. But, yeah, cuz the original approval before that was sold it gave him a few years to to clean that up and I mean, we're almost a couple years down the road from Yeah. And and you know, there's definitely been more material coming in and and going back out. Uh when it was sold under Forcillo, they were trying to work the piles down and be done. That obviously has changed. Uh I do occasionally take a ride through there to make sure everything is tidy, especially with the uh the wetland situation that he had there. So, I don't I don't have any concerns. I'm sorry? Is everything removed from the wetlands? Yeah, oh yeah, that's been clean and stable for a long time. He's got a berm right along there
072so nothing can get into the Everything's good. He does pretty good, I think. But, it would be nice to have a a permanent plan. Well, just something updated information on Right. where it stands. I mean, it may be 2 more years to complete what was originally planned but sold to us and approved by us. So. So. Okay, it's good. Anybody have any other other business they want to bring up? I'm good. You good? All right. So, let's do the approval of the February 9th, 2026 regular meeting minutes. I move to approve them. I'll second them. Willie made the motion. Willie. Willie. Yeah. I second. Got it. Okay. All in favor? Scott wasn't here. One abstention. >> [laughter] >> Okay, so that brings us to number nine, communications. Do we have anything from staff for communications?
073I've communicated [snorts] enough, I think. Nothing new. At some point we should be seeing something for 508 Main Street. At 508, yes. Uh we should, yes. They as I know if you guys know, yeah, the closing finally happened, so that's good. Uh the the chief person in that group comes into the office occasionally. He's been, you know, communicating with staff about questions and and that kind of thing, but we haven't gotten official plans yet. What is what's 508? What's that? What's 508 Main Street? The town building where they tore the one down up by Cap Pizza. >> Cap Pizza. Up Cap Pizza. Town just sold that. There's two parcels there and then the one behind it which they list as High Street where they tore the house down several years ago. All three pieces were
074sold. Last week it was. Yeah. Basically, the plan is for >> [snorts] >> 14 condo units. That number has gone up and down depending on, you know, little revisions. Ground floor commercial, parking and rear access for the tenants above and commercial down below. Yep. Yeah. So, that would that be something that we would accept staff would accept it or we going to have to do that regular meeting to give you time to review it? That'll be a site plan according to the new regulations that you just adopted, so a public hearing's not required. Public hearing's not required. Right. Cuz it's a mixed-use building on Main Street. What if they're tearing it down? Well, the the new building Yeah, the teardown would be done administratively and then the new building the new building would be a
075site plan. So, there's no approvals on a mixed-use building being created. Just a site plan from you. Basically replacing a mixed-use building, no? >> Right. And I mean, you know, as we talked about 3 or 4 months ago, mixed-use is what you want to see on Main Street. So, we want to make that process as easy as we can. So, um this is proposed at this time it's proposed to be a mixed-use building so they'd come in here, you would see the site plan, the parking, review all of those things, make sure it's uh compliant with your regulations and and away they go. Are you not changing the use of the High Street property or is this demoed and So, that's something that you can do this talked about where you can accept it Yeah,
076we wouldn't even need to because we wouldn't have a public hearing for it. So, that could come in and potentially could be approved in one night. Uh and to answer to question on the High Street side. High Street is traditionally met parking back there anyway. Right now it's chained off because it's town-owned and the easements a bit of a situation back there, but Any other discussion? Okay, motion to adjourn. I so move. All in favor? Everybody in favor? Nobody? It was unanimously made, seconded. Everybody that's Peter, John, Scott, David. Unless you want to stay. Okay, that's a musical group. Yeah, right.