Board of Education - Special Meeting - February 26, 2026

001Are we live? There we go. Yep. >> Now it's TV. >> We're good. All right. Welcome everyone to the uh Winchester Public Schools Board of Education special meeting budget workshop for February 26, 2026. Um first item, call to order. Uh we do pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Um, we have a request. Uh, Frank. >> Yes. >> Uh, today is the 33rd anniversary of the bombing of the World Trade Center 1983, which working for D, myself and a number of people were part of that that evening with the former commission with the previous with uh lieutenant police officer who later became one of the best

002police commissioners in the world. So what I ask is a 20 second silence in memory of those people that got killed and the people that got injured after with no remorse from the government to get anything for themselves. Thank you. >> So mine please. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. Roll call. >> Uh Joseph Santoro, >> Chrissy Rylander, >> Frank Oliver, >> Jonathan Mohort, >> Kurt Warner, >> Julie Lubby, >> Nora Mccorski, >> Elanor Bishop, Carol, >> and we have >> Centrella Shane Centrella on the phone. Thank you, Shane. All right, on um on to item two, public comment. The Winchester Board of Educations welcome you to its business meeting. There are two opportunities set aside to hear comments from the public. We welcome and encourage public participation as a valued part of communicating

003input with the Winchester Board of Education. We appreciate your adherence to the following. Complete the requested information on the sign-in sheet. If you wish to speak, name, address, and email. State your name and address when called upon to speak. And you will be allotted three minutes to share your comments. Please be advised that it is not the practice of the board of education to engage in dialogue regarding commentary. The superintendent of schools will be directed by the chairperson to prepare an appropriate response in a timely manner. We appreciate your time and thoughtful commentary. Does anyone wish to speak? >> You have to sign up. >> Yep. Please. >> You can sign up now and and speak if you'd like. Um I do ask that you turn the microphone on as well. Um, and maybe once

004you're done filling that out, we put the form over there so other people can sign up. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Uh, my name is Candy Perez. I live at 605 West Wakefield Boulevard. It's the first time I'm speaking. I'm not part of a board. I'm not part of anything. So, it's my first first time, right? Um I just like to say your job is going to be really tough along with the board of selectment, along with the town voters because there's a problem, right? There's not enough money to go around to everybody. So, I'd like to talk about math with all of you. I figure there's a million dollars right now on the board of education that cannot be cut. So you have your ask of 2 point something, but there's a million dollars

005that can't be cut that you are going to have to fund no matter what. If the board of selectman says no increase at all, you're going to have to come up from a million dollars out of what you are currently doing in the K6 regular education program. So the money that you have to do, you have to fund the buses next year. They have to run. So whatever the buses ask for, you have to fund. special education, what you're currently paying for, plus whatever you have to do for an out placement next year or a new bus or anything like that. You have to fund the private school tuition. You have to fund. You have no choices in any of those. So, you have a million dollars out of the gate that has to come

006from somewhere. If you get a million dollars from the property tax owners and the town, you can pay that million, but then you have your regular education K6. And what is regular education K6 going to get their money from? Is the state going to give more money to the town of Winchester? We've heard people over the past six months to nine months say that there will be no more money coming into town. Are we going to see that money? Is the town going to be able to give you more than a million dollars, a million5? Because a million is one mil. The town side is going around right now asking department heads to do a 3% cut in their budgets. And I know that because we've been asked to um in a budget that we

007uh run with with the lake. A 3% cut is going around on the town side. So where's the money going to come from? And how are you? And that's why I said it's going to be a tough job. You have a million out of the gate and you'll have to fund it. If the board of selectman doesn't give you money, if the state doesn't give you money, and if the town's people don't say yes to a tax increase, you will need to take those that million dollars that you have no control over and pay it out of existing regular ed K6 budgets. It's all math. It's not about how you feel about this entity or that entity or how you feel about where things should be or a philosophy. It's a simple math about the

008money that you have to pay. And that's what I just wanted to share. So, good luck. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else wishing to speak? My name is Rick 736 Drive and they said it's very very students deserve a great experience and the best education no matter what. That's number one. And after that the taxpayers they're crippled. Um, I I owned four homes on the lake. I love the lake. Since 1991, I had to sell three to support myself. We built a new home, 1,800 square ft, 55 foot frontage on the lake. I pay 16,000 a year. Okay. I'm 75 and a half years old. And I have just social security income, no pension. So, planning to do a reverse mortgage. A home is worth a lot. Yes, of course. When you sell them, you

009get the exemp exemption from the IRS, but they grab 35% on all the rest. So, the homes are worth a lot in the lake. The roads are like a third world country or maybe a fourth world country. I'm sorry, someone's corrected me that. You know, the cars are being ruled and things of that nature. All I ask is you work together and do some common sense things to help save $2,000 to save 10,000 a million. You know, I don't know if this is all political. I hear little comments. I'm not into politics so I don't really understand them. People are fighting goes nowhere. If people work hard together, educators are brilliant. Now they have to creative. So you got to do something on both ends for the children and for the taxpayers. >> Thank you.

010>> Good job. >> Uh Matt Smith, 662 East Wakefield Boulevard. I agree with everything Candy said and I liked what Rick said as well. Uh tonight I'm here as a resident and a taxpayer of this town. I've been following the school system and the budget for many years now. Um the school system K through 12 needs to be fixed. It needs to be a better system. Throwing good money at a bad system is not the answer. We need a change and we have to do better. This is not a political issue. You know, we it doesn't matter. I agree with Candy. She's a Democrat. I'm a Republican. That doesn't matter. We're looking to have a better system for our children. Now, I was very disappointed on February 17th at the meeting regarding the reduction scenarios

011and Dr. Lubie brought forward these four scenarios to the board. I know you're famili familiar with them. Those scenarios and and she stated that scenario number four was the real option that we should look at and I think that serial 4 was handled poorly. It was prevent uh presented poorly and I have some serious issues with it. The first the option was not brought to the board the WPs board members prior to the meeting. That's number one. Number two, no notice was given, nor did the superintendent speak with Gilbert to get her facts in order on that U scenario brought forward. Three, the superintendent understood if if the superintendent understood the designation partic uh participation agreement that was signed with Gilbert on August 25th recently. She would have known that by removing a grade would

012have been a breach of that agreement which was recently signed. However, you could move the sixth grade in that agreement as part of the middle school, which you should consider and look into and have all the documentation on that. I think on a brighter note going forward, I think we have to look at our educational system. I would recommend looking at Gilbert to be contracted possibly to save money and to have a better education for the children for grades K through six. This would unify the school system. It would be financially respons make it financially responsible and a better cohesive education. We wouldn't have a speed bump going from the sixth grade to the seventh and eth. So it would be a better education for our children. It would get rid of duplicate services with

013the WPS board and would and the WPS board would still have control and oversight over that contract with Gilbert. Lastly, please look into our special education students and bring uh special education students bringing them back into the town system. Um it seems unfair. That's an expensive uh proposition. It's like $3 million that we have to bust them out of our community. A lot of people I know that are have children in special ed have to go back and forth for an hour one way and an hour back. It would be much better to handle that in a responsible way, a more fiscally responsible way, and to bring those students back to our town. That's it. Thank you. Thank you for hearing me. Anyone else wishing to speak? Would you mean uh you can speak now

014and then sign in after? That's fine. >> My name is Marcia Sterling. I live at 254 Grantville Road. Haven't seen many of you in a while, but hi. Nice to see you again. Um I'm coming to speak because this is an incredibly important issue. It's the most important thing the town does is educate our students. It's the future of the town. and the board of ed expenditures have increased from 20 million to $24 million in the last five years. The town has made a significant commitment and that's just the run rate spending. That doesn't include the almost half a million dollars a year that we're paying out for the renovation at Hinsdale School. So, the town is committed to education and they've made significant commitments. So, I and I think it's important to note that

015in the last two years, the town has increased the board of ed budget by more than a million dollars in each of those two years with no explanation from the board of education as to where that money's gone. And I've asked repeatedly and I've gotten radio silence. So I decided to look at a few other statistics. I don't know how many other people here have had a chance to check the edsite.gov which is the stats for the different towns and the different school districts. And I found out some really interesting things. And I'm looking just at the Winchester K through6 or preK through six system. If you compare that, we have about 600 students. New Hartford has 440 students. So it's a little smaller, but it's about the same. We spend over $23,000 per student.

016They spend about $21,000 per student. 21,400. We actually have a lower student teacher ratio. We have about nine and a half to one. They have about 10 to1. Their uh special needs and disabled statistics are 24% of the population. Ours is 20 or 20.9. So 21. Their uh English language learners admittedly are pretty close to zero. I think they have one, but ours isn't that high. It's about six. The state average is about 12. But what's most telling and most important is the state's ACT uh accountability score, which takes all the different contributions into play and says, "How is your school district doing?" And before I give you the punchline, I think you can guess ours isn't very good. Bark Hamstead School District, which again spends about $21,000 for their K through six, they have

017250 students. I'm happy to give you to print out copies of this. They have about a 10 to1 student teacher ratio. Their accur their accountability score is 92.4. It's comparable to Westports. It's the best in the state of Connecticut. New Hartfords is also pretty good at 74.6. Winchester's at 64.8 is one of the worst in the state. It's actually down there with Bridgeport and New Haven. And again, this is accounting for all of the way the investments are done and the way the education is handled. So, we've made a big investment in this school district. We've made a big commitment. It's time for us to find out why our performance is not working out before we just throw a whole bunch more money at the system. The school district has had the town's commitment, and

018it's about time that we find out and get real answers. Where's the money going? How's it being spent? putting metrics in place and saying what's going to come of this and a year from now really judging that. And quite frankly, I'm much more of at this point with the $4 million investment that's already been made. I think the school district and the school board should find out what happened with all that money and look at why we didn't have an increase in performance because that's what we need to find. It isn't that the town doesn't want to commit to education, but no one wants to keep, as my mother would say to my dad, pouring money into a hole in the water, otherwise known as a boat. So, I'm happy to give these to people

019because I printed them out. And uh I really appreciate your time. I also appreciate your commitment to doing this. Uh I didn't sit in the board of ed chairs, but I've sat in some of those chairs and I know what an enormous commitment it is. Um, my husband sat in one of those chairs. So, um, I really appreciate it. And we have to figure this out because otherwise, you know, we're the we're the, you know, last district in the pile in a beautiful part of Connecticut and a lot of things have changed in the last five years. And again, the town has made an investment. We need to find out how to make the most of what we're doing. And that's what I would add to your list of things to do. That's what I

020would really like to understand and I apologize for coming from the Y poolool to hear. Thank you. >> Anyone else wishing to speak? >> Hi, my name is Louisa Martinez and these are just some notes I came up with today because I was curious comparing our school size compared to the other towns. I have five here, but it might take a while. I'll just go with the top two towns that I looked at. Weston, and they all had be about the same population as our school. Weston's population, according to Google AI, so if you don't like the numbers, you can blame them, 10,396 students, the median family income is what I was looking at, is 250,000. And they ch and they we pay they pay 27,850 per student. When I looked up Winchester with a

021population according to this AI 10,39 and our median family income came up $79,26. And yet according to how much we spend per student, $26,997. We are not Windstead. Um we are not Weston. We're not even old Sabbrook who also came in lower. We're not Canton or Summers. All came in much lower. And uh it's just to show the unaffordability of the amount of money that's being asked for to fund the schools. So you have to find another way because we just can't keep shelling out this kind of money and poor results because I looked at proficiency. Weston math reading 90% proficiency. Winchester 49% proficiency. So not we're not even getting anyone anywhere near what we're paying for. That's all I needed to say. Thank you for listening. I just said her number includes all the

022other state that 26 odd number for students. My number is just the town contribution. So I mean the person per student is actually closer to $27,000. >> Anyone else wishing to speak? Hi, I'm Kevin Bishop, 59 Hinsdale, member of the board of selectmen. Um, I just want to say, um, basically let you off the hook and say, let the board of selectmen be the bad guys. The job of the board of education is to prevent a budget that is responsible to the students and to the schools. And the job of the board of selectmen is to present a budget and the town manager is to present a budget that's responsible fiscally to the taxpayer of the town. Now I am not someone who wants to raise you know create some incredible tax rate for the

023people but you know the an increase in school budget doesn't necessarily directly equate to an increase in the mill rate. There are things happening right now. We don't know what's going to happen. It's a constantly moving target. the revenue. There are different things happening in town that could increase the revenue. Uh there's all sorts of things that the town manager and people are working on um that can fix it that way. We're working very hard. There's a push across the entire state to fix the educational cost sharing the ECS. It's a major issue. Every town is angry, including me. I'm very angry at the state at the fact that it's been 17 years since our town has gotten an increase in ECS. That is on the cusp of changing. There's a bill in the House

024right now. Just popped up today. They might be giving an extra thousand dollar per student for every school in Connecticut. So all I'm asking I am not someone who wants to give some giant tax rates. I mean I'm a homeowner. I can't afford it. Nobody can afford it. I mean we all agree there. We all agree there. But the issue is is if the budget is cut down to nothing before it comes before the board of selectment. What if something changes between now and then? You know, the system of oversight that is meant to happen in democracy is working for K through six public uh school education. WPS, it's working. The board of selectment is supposed to have that fiscal oversight and it's working. So, let the system work. You will all be um you

025know, applauded and applauded for putting forth, you know, what is responsible for the students. Is it more expensive than the town can afford? Maybe it is. We don't know how it's going to fall into place. Let the selectman do our job. Let the town manager make his recommendations. Your job is to make a recommendation that benefits the students and the schools first. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh Kevin, can you uh sign it? >> Anyone else wishing to speak? >> I was Oh, I'll let him go first. >> Come on up, please. >> Thank you. Evening everyone. My name is Ryan Schaefer. I live at 92 Stanton Avenue in Winston. Um, two things that I'm up here for. One is uh in the proposed budget. I was uh looking over some of the

026numbers and it seemed to be a little confusing for me uh as far as the amount that we're spending on uh out of district special education uh transportation and then the uh increase to have uh like uh BCAB therapy and the uh requested social services to be added to our schools. I didn't know if that was a combination like uh like the cost would be the transportation cost and it would also include the additional personnel at the school or if it's one or the other. I don't know if that makes sense. Was a little confusing for me. Uh >> do you want to just explain that a little more so then I can follow up and get you information? >> Sure. So, so on the district on the out of district spending it was what

027one 1,300,000 something like that for transportation. >> Could you put the budget up? >> You're looking at the pages that are like yellow. Um >> uh >> he's gonna show you Matthew if you would to >> you'll have to get there but >> yeah like these kinds of pages. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So special education go into the fives please. >> Let's see if we can understand the question. page. >> So those are all the numbers for the transportation to take uh students of Witstead to bring them outside, right, for their educational needs. So that's part of the budget, but also part of the budget wasn't adding additional resources in the school so those students wouldn't have to go out of town or >> no combination. These students have transportation costs and there's also associated

028tuition costs because they have needs that can't be met within the programs that we offer in the district. Okay. there are additional special education students whose needs are being met through the staff that you're referring to, the BCBA, >> social workers and things like that. >> Okay. So, >> so that's a second group of children. >> Okay. All right. So, what that's why I was confused. Thank you for clarifying. Um, the second thing is that I know there was a stipen for uh the talented and gifted program coming up that was proposed. Um, I have a good feeling that a lot of things going to be cut down and chipped away due to the increased uh budget cost. Uh, my daughter is over there in the black shirt, probably being very shy, but uh, she's

029been one that's uh, would benefit greatly from that talented and gifted program. It's been mentioned by our teachers for years and every year we've gotten the same response. No, we can't do it. No, we can't do it. Uh, I know it's a very small amount in that proposed budget, but I just wanted to, you know, that little one over there could benefit from it greatly, even from that small little slice. So, not only for her, but for any other students that might benefit from it. >> Thank you. >> That was it. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Anyone else wishing to speak? >> I was asked to read something. So, this is from three parents in town. Uh, Natalie Blotchair, she lives at 44 Spencer Street, Kim Schult at 100 Hinsdale A, and

030Olympia Thompson, uh, 168 Spencer Hill Road. Um, and they write as a group, "We are three households in Winstead. Between us, we have nine children with students at all of the town schools, Hinsdale, Pearson, and Gilbert. We unequivocally support the budget as initially proposed by Dr. Lubie. We do not endorse the board of ed selecting any of the four categories of major cuts as proposed and presented at the February 12th meeting. We look to the board of education members to hold at the front of their decision-making minds the interests and well-being of the schools, the students, teachers, and staff that compromise that comprise them. We do not expect board members to have alternate primary priorities such as zero increases and acrimony with our local high school which is all to the detriment of our whole

031education program. Yes, this is a substantial increase to the budget. However, it is also a right sizing for our current and future economic and social climate. Your stakeholders, the school community are looking at you to support this budget and sell it appropriately to the board of selectmen. It is not the mandate of this education board to hinder sound investment in our schools, thereby making our town unappealing to both current and prospective residents. We implore you to pass the budget and support it moving forward through the entire referendum processes. Is there anyone else wishing to speak? >> Oh, he beat you to it. >> It's on. Yep, you're good. >> And I know there's a precedent of standing. You can sit if you like. >> Thank you. The goggles out. All right, Rob Ashlin, 228 Smith

032Hill Road. So, let me start off by saying all children deserve a proper education. My biggest concern in this town is the split school system with two sets of administrators costing the taxpayers excessive amounts of money and salaries and benefits. Let me ask the board members this question. Have you ever looked up the state of Connecticut requirements for needing a school superintendent? I have. The town of Winchester does not even meet the requirement for one full-time superintendent. Yet, we have two. One in Winston public schools and one at Gilbert School. Also, administrators at alternate ed or whatever that's called now. When is this town going to address the split school system? The money you could save by unifying the school system is astronomical. You could hire more teachers, special ed teachers, pair professionals with the

033cost savings. As I have said above, every child deserves a proper education, but at what cost? There are so many inefficiencies. The town and the schools need to be run like a business. If you run your home budget like the town and the school systems do, you would be living on the street. When does it end? A two plus million dollar tax increase ask again this year from the schools is just ridiculous. And these giant increases are unsustainable. The student population has declined annually for the past few years, and this year there's going to be less students than last year. Less students, more money. When will it end? Asking the taxpayers for another giant increase this year when families are struggling to put food on the table, paying excessively high electricity bills is a huge

034burden for the average household in this town. Please wake up concerned taxpayers of Winston. >> Thank you. >> All right. Anyone else wishing to speak? >> Hello. Uh, I'm Maryanne Marino, 631 Bar Road. Thank you for the offer. I think I'll stand. Um, as I understand it, this board did ask the Gilbert School to make cuts. According to state statute, they do not have to, and therefore they did not. So, I agree with my old friend Matt that we should combine the schools and I think that we should eliminate that position that the town continues to be in of not having the opportunity to enforce cuts from the Gilbert School by giving the Gilbert school to the Winstead public schools and have it become part of the Winstead public school system. that would do what

035a lot of people here support, which is unifying the school system and moving us away from a statute that is not beneficial to our to our town budget, our ourselves as taxpayers. So, um I'd be all in support of that. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Anyone else wishing to speak? There will be another opportunity later. But anyone else going once, going twice. >> So all right, moving on. >> Thank you everyone. >> Thank you. >> Uh all right. Before we move into our action item uh which is the budget review discussion and possible action um I think we want to give a little bit some some information some data that we have presented. Um, we also would like to ask um our BCBA uh who currently works for our schools district uh

036to come up and tell us a little bit about what he does as well. So, um before we get into what we're really here to do, we're just going to get some more information items to everyone um so we can make an informed best decision as we move forward. Thank you. Um if you could put the reference group data up. Perfect. Thank you. Um as part of our discussion and um actually sort of teed up by some of the comments tonight about the achievement of the Winchester public schools. Um I'll just acknowledge that our accountability index this year is many points lower than usual. You may remember as a board that uh this fall we discovered that we had been mis uh reporting attendance which drove our score down significantly. We anticipate being back in

037the mid70s with our accountability index next year as we have been um because that number is not necessarily well it's certainly not the only number and it's also not the most reliable. This performance index data and Matthew I don't know if you could make that just a little bit bigger would be great. I'm going to tell you what you're looking at. Um, back in the day, people have probably heard of DUIs. The state used to talk about district reference groups. They haven't updated those in about 15 years. And when you talk to uh the state department of education, they will tell you those are no, they are not valid. They have not been reviewed and updated in ages. And that if you're looking for a set of schools to compare yourself to, look at the

038size of your enrollment and your percent of students receiving free and reduced lunch. So, I just pulled from Ed's site um all of the schools that were sort of in the same range as we were for free and reduced lunch and then eliminated districts like a Danbury that was, you know, so much larger because it's just not fair to compare huge districts and little districts. Um the data here is the performance index which is a great statistic. What that tells you, you can always look at just the percent of your kids who are meeting the standard. There's one, two, three, four bands and kids in three and four are meeting. But it doesn't tell you sort of the overall wellness because you could have half of your students in band four and half in band

039one. And that's very different than having 50% of your students in two and three. So this number tells the story. It pulls in all of the kids in all of the bands. And you can see I've highlighted Winchester for you. Here you see um our ELA performance index, our math performance index, and our science performance index as compared to these towns that are comparable to us in their size and in their socioeconomics. Um of these, I think there's 11 towns in the list, Winchester is in first place with our science scores and as you can see, well above everyone else in the group. We really um kick it in science. We have a really strong program. Many of you have already expressed an interest in coming to our drone competition. You know, we've turned our

040library classes into places that are filled with innovation and creativity. We are really for in the front on that. As far as math goes, of these 11 towns, which are similar to us, we have the second highest ranking and you can see that the range goes so far below where we are. And in reading, we are the third highest ranking. And again, You can see that we are very close to the top there and the range goes well below. Um and you can see some of those um comparison towns are towns you would think well of. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Natuck, Ansonia, Torington. We are outperforming all of those places. So um I did want to make sure that we had some accurate reference points in the realm of how we perform as a

041school district. It would be great. I know Frank expressed at one of our um workshops that he wants us to be a top 10 uh in the state in five years and I applaud that. Um I don't know if we'll get to top 10 in the state, but we're certainly trying and being top of our reference group I think is an important place to start that conversation. Um so that was one thing for data. The other thing, Matthew, if you could go to the budget book for me and just go to page uh page number 15, which is 17 of the PDF if possible for one quick second. I just want to reference um the per pupil expenditures because again this is the most current and this is what takes into account all of the

042different um ways in which we're spending money. So what the state reports is an aggregate and it's probably I think the number someone quoted tonight was in the neighborhood of $24,000 a student. So that strikes about right. When you take the um current enrollment or projected enrollment I guess for next year going across that line 598 students this is based on the fiscal year 27 budget that we're working on. The per pupil spending on the K6 program is about 20 21,000. Um on the 712 program is about 28,000. And unfortunately, you know, students who are being transported to out of district placements obviously cost far more per student and we share everyone's belief that when we can build a program that would meet students needs, we would be thrilled to bring them back. Um just

043as a point of reference that the the 7 through 12 the the number the 28,000 that includes the special ed students as well. >> No it does not include special education that's its own column that's just the cost of the teachers who work up there the one run of half of the transportation and the tuition. In fairness it doesn't reflect the 9,000 deduction that we received after we had published our budget. So that number should be 11,226, but I don't think that would significantly move the needle. Um, so those were a couple things I wanted to share. We could just throw the agenda back up for a minute. And I wanted to invite, we've talked a lot about um the needs of students and how significant and severe they are and how our budget is

044largely a status quo budget. We have $377,000 and some hundreds in the budget for new positions. Given the size of the budget, that's a pretty small percent of the increase and a small percent of the total budget. But those new positions are in there to meet students needs. And so we have had the great fortune this year to have maybe for the first time ever or at least for the first time in a long time our very own BCBA. We have in the past had to contract through companies and have one person two days and another person two days. We have found someone who is dedicated to our district and our students. Um, and I've tried to do my best to sort of tell you all about what a BCBA does, but I asked Gio,

045he's going to be five minutes or less, but I thought it was important that you um just hear from him a little bit about what a BCDA is because although it's not the only new thing in the budget, it is a big jump. It's a third of what's extra in this budget. So Gio, if you want to um come to the table, please sit and be comfortable. You can stand whatever standing. >> Excellent. So Gio Kataya, >> yeah, >> this is the board or this is our BCBA Gioay. Hello everybody. Nice to meet you. >> Um my name is Giovanni Kataya. I'm behavior analyst for the district. >> Um you already introduced me. Um I was asked here to kind of speak about what I do and also why we should really consider a second

046behavior analyst. Um, so it's kind of in the title, behavior analyst. I assess students behavior um that interfere with their learning, others learning. Um, I also deal with uh behaviors that are dangerous or unsafe. Um, these can include hitting, running out of the room, breaking things, swiping items, hitting other people, whatever you can think of that those type of maladaptive behaviors, those are the ones that I kind of assess and deal with. Um now there's an assessment process that I have to go through with all students. It's called an FBA. Um this process um it helps me identify why they're engaging in these behaviors. Um and from there um I teach alternative behaviors. So for example, let's say I have a student that is hitting because they want to escape doing work. Um this is

047a very black and white example. It's never this simple. um I find through the assessment that they're trying to escape work through hitting their teacher or whatever. Um the alternative behavior might be requesting simply break. Um so those forms are different like hitting the stu or hitting the teacher versus asking for a break. Those are two different forms, but the function is the same. They're getting the same thing out of that behavior. It's just asking for a break is a little bit more appropriate than hitting somebody else. Um so this is only one of the responsibilities that I take on. Um I specifically wanted to talk about this one because I have to provide this assessment for every student I work with. Um other responsibilities that I'm not going to really go in depth about

048um would be creating a behavior plan um training staff on how to implement that behavior plan. um creating data systems, data collection systems, creating graphs, analyzing graphs, presenting at PPTs, um sometimes working directly with the students as well. Um as well as keeping up on new research and all of that stuff. Um now given those responsibilities, there are more. Um but I would like to talk about the need for a second behavior analyst. Um as a BCBA, sorry, I use those two words interchangeably. BCBA is a behavior analyst. It's the same thing. Um, I have to follow an ethical code. Um, this ethical code is actually referenced in the guidelines for BCBAs working in schools in Connecticut. Both my code and the guidelines do not specifically state um the actual size of one's case load

049because it varies from district to district um due to the needs of the students. So that assessment that I was talking about earlier, that pretty much is done with all students no matter what. But as I was kind of saying before, working directly with the students isn't always required. It could just be like team consult. Um if staff are already trained on procedures, there might not need to be a lot of staff training. Um it all depends on the needs of the district and the students as well. Um so my goal on starting in this district was to take on the full case load um and provide services to those students. But not only that, but also to start to come up with a program that can meet the needs of more students that we

050are getting in. Um with the current needs of the students, that is not possible with just one BCBA. Um on average, a BCBA has a case load of 8 to 12 students. Um it can reach up to like 20 but that up in that 20 like 15 to 20 range is considered like very high. Um currently Winstead has 30 students who need intervention um or consultation from a behavior analyst. Um so the needs of the district greatly surpasses the average case load by almost double or triple of like the average case load. Um, and that also doesn't include referrals. Um, even while I was kind of preparing for this, I had written here four referrals, but today I actually got another one. So, it's up to five referrals now. Um, so I'm here today to

051support, you know, Julie's request for an additional behavior analyst to ensure that all students are provided the services they needed and also to adhere to my ethical code. Um, it's not ethical. I can't say that I can provide services for all 30 students. It's too tedious to do. Um without the assistance of an additional analyst, students won't get the quality services that they need. Um and I will be working outside of the compliance of my code as well. So, um I appreciate you letting me speak. Um do does anybody have questions before close? Any questions? I just wanted to be clear so folk know >> um your role as BCBA is beyond persons students that might be persons that have IEPs. Am I correct that you service all students? >> Um if a student come

052like if I get a referral for it, they usually have an IEP or a 504 um that will have me in there either for console or for um assessments as well. So it is it is within their IEPs or um 504 plans. >> So BCBA would be in a in an IEP which is a federally mandated obligation once you're in that IEP. >> Yes, it is. Yes. So that yeah um and that consult time like you said I am bound to provide those services for >> and if you don't have time to provide those services which are in the IEP then the district is culpable for federal violation. Am I correct? >> Not federal violation. Um, I'm overseen by a board. It's called the Behavior Analyst Certification Board. That's my governing body. >> Um, I

053don't think it's a federal law, but I could lose my license if I'm out of compliance with the code. >> IEEPs are federal laws. >> So, Gio speaking about sort of his who he answers to, if you will, but the district. Yes. If we are not providing services that are in an IEP, we are out of federal compliance. >> So, yes, >> he's not. We are. >> So, yes. you're off the hook. >> Okay. >> And I think to the uh point that was made earlier about um providing programs in district rather than sending kids all over, I think the theory of action is that if we do a great job understanding kids behavior and addressing it, we will have less students that we need to place out of district. >> So, prior to this,

054I actually I worked in Watertown as a behavior analyst. Um my case load was 12 which is the average max. Um I worked for a company called Aspire and at that time we were kind of helping build the school district's program up. So I'm very aware and like capable of doing it and that's what that was my plan coming in. But after seeing the case load, which is like I said over double the normal average, it's not possible for me to do that and also provide services for these kiddos. >> Could you speak to sometimes elementary teachers have data teaming? Sometimes they have teaming during the course of the year or the day built into their schedule. >> Can you speak to how your role is different from regular ed teachers who team? I'm not

055too familiar with the teaming um aspect. I mean, I do work with teachers who take data for me, which is very helpful. Um I don't require them to enter the data, but into like my um my Excel sheets, but they some of them do do it, which is extremely helpful. Um I'm not too sure about the whole teaming aspect. Julie, do teams of teachers work together to work curriculum and design curriculum, work with students as well as when they meet, look at the data that he's presenting, but their role is more curricular, would you say? So, I'm a little uncertain what we're talking about, but we have data teams. Our SRBI team looks at student data. >> Um, if a student is going through the PPT process or has an IEP, we are collecting data

056on how they're responding to their program. So teachers are involved with that and they would pull the team together in a meeting for sure to assess where we are and what's working and not working. >> Curriculum work totally separate curriculum work um typically would happen in the summer. We have um collaborative planning as part of the teachers day but that's just good oldfashioned like how are we going to meet the kids needs this week in math >> right? So his role is different from collaborative planning. I just want to make sure everybody understands that difference. >> Yeah. So the the data that I collect um is primarily behavior data once again on like aggression or these maladaptive behaviors, running away, throwing things, things like that. Um and I look at different trend levels, variability um

057and when we implement procedures um based on the assessments done, what I'm looking for is for these behaviors to decrease, but also seeing other behaviors increase, such the ones that are socially appropriate. um like asking for help um asking for a break, things like that. >> So yeah, >> and I'll just point out that the kinds of behaviors Gio's describing, we've talked a little bit about this, are not like calling out in class or the kinds of behaviors we all thought of from our school days. We're talking about children who are screeching in the hallway or running from the building and having to be chased. Um >> I've seen kids throw chairs. I've seen kids disrobe. I've seen them others where they have to go to the nurse, they're crying. >> His work is with

058extreme behaviors and again sort of he is like that last barrier where we are trying to keep kids here and meet their needs. But when a child is hurting other children, it starts to get sticky pretty quickly. >> Frank question. Yes. Um my career as a professional engineer in the state of New York, retired. I worked for the city. When we had a problem, you s you look at the problem, you solve the problem. Okay? But then you go back and you look at how the problem started and where the responsibility of that problem started. So do we being we're talking about curriculum of the school family and do we go back to where it starts? Where does the problem start? Is it started in the school? Is it started with the family? And then

059how do you solve that? >> Yeah. So it doesn't come to you >> again. >> Yeah. I obviously I look at only the behaviors that are happening in school, >> right? >> Um and I always say that a big part of it is how this kind of um goes back to their home. Um I do think that there are problems that do stem from home, but as far as in the school, there's I can do everything I can right in my power. But where do we get the connection to go back to the family and say, "Look, this is a problem. We can handle it here, but we need your assistance so it doesn't happen again." >> Yeah. Well, so far I've had great experience with um families I've worked with. >> Uh we've had

060great conversations about like what's working at home and what's working here at school. Um and kind of trying to imitate that, you know, in both areas. >> Okay. So you are the family. >> Yeah, it doesn't I I do have to say that like you know these are two different settings. The expectations are different at home. Um there are a lot of more I I would say there's more for the most part there's more expectations in the school. Um a lot of demands versus at home where they might just like be set to their own device. Um so the settings are very different and that can cause a lot of different behaviors. >> Great. >> So yeah. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate it. >> So, just a couple

061other pieces of information. Um, someone may have already mentioned in the public comments, but I was excited to share with you. Um, as you know, Kurt and Jay Casease went to Hartford and met with the commissioner as well as the I'm going to say the director of policy, >> someone who works with the governor >> in the governor's office to talk about Winchester and our needs and um our plight of really not wanting to decimate education and also not wanting to um burden the taxpayers and really looking for that third what's behind door number three And so far what we've come up with is the ECS formula. So um I testified in the middle of the night um about the governor's appropriated budget to um add our voice to the concern that the ECS formula

062be adjusted for coming year fiscal year 27 and not wait the governor has said there'll be a blue ribbon commission will address this but that would be a whole year out and we can't wait for that. So there were so many voices with that. Um, the bill has gone back to the education committee as of literally this morning um to increase the foundation. Currently, I think I've explained a little bit. It's ridiculously interwoven, but the formula starts with a base amount per student and then there's ways that it gets added on to, but the base currently is $11,525 um per student. And this bill says for the fiscal year ending June 2027, so the coming budget season, $12,500. So that would be $1,000 more per student. Meaning we while we have 600 students in the

063schools, you your number goes up because they multiply um based on your um free and reduced lunch rate as well as your EL rate. So our number might be instead of 600 it might be 700 or 800. That number times the extra thousand has the potential if this is approved to bring anywhere from 500 to a million thou 500,000 to a million more dollars to the town. So that is gone into the education committee as of this morning. Um they haven't opened the sign up for testifying but as you might imagine I will testify on that on Wednesday. Um, also in that they are opening the section that talks about regional bonuses that applies to us because it also takes in an indowed high school. So my testimony will focus quickly on the $1,000 per

064student is great. We'll take that and run. Another million dollars coming into the town would be phenomenal. But I also believe there's a strong argument to be made that um the way they describe it is you should be getting ECS money for every student for which you are fiscally responsible. We are fiscally responsible for all 10,000 of our students between the K6 and the 712 program. But they do those differently. The base is different. We get roughly Kurt was told when he was there $260,000 for the 712 students of an almost $8 million allocation. That doesn't make sense. If the formula were acted on um as if all thousand students were Winchester students, which they are, we would be getting at least a million dollars more. So, my argument will be and my conversation um

065it's my hope to get in and meet with the governor uh next week that the town is being penalized for something that there's no reason to be penalized for. We are fiscally responsible for all the kids and if we could get that rectified would be a million dollars and if the governor's budget ends up increasing the base that would be a million dollars. So, I wanted to make sure you knew all those pieces are in play. I have no assurance that any of those will happen, but knowing that Kurt spoke with someone from the governor's office last week, and I'm hopeful to speak with someone next week, um I would ask the board to consider um taking action on anything in our budget that you think is above and beyond and unnecessary and make those

066reductions, but to take the gift of time and as the process unfolds, it'll be six weeks before the board of is even really digging in on this because there's the weeks in between where they get the books and then a couple weeks till we present and then they first start deliberating. Maybe in that time we learn good things and then that could influence um I forget which speaker spoke about that but you know if there was it can change the entire formula for the town and not our budget wouldn't be the driver behind increased taxes if two more million dollars were coming in. So those are exciting things that are may and potentially exciting. >> So you share that. >> I'll speak to my time. Um I spent almost six hours at the capital last

067Tuesday. Um the main intent was uh Representative Casease uh did get a meeting with the commissioner of education um for me to sit with her. um after she testified u that morning uh because she was going to be in the capital. She told Jay she was going to be in the cap. Um and if I'd be willing to meet with her after the fact. Um I was expecting 15 minutes. I got about 40 minutes with her. Um and it wasn't like she was looking to leave. So um she gave me her time. Uh and it was productive. It was good. Um she has a very keen insight into Winston as she was part of the receiverhip. So, she knows the dynamic of the town um and the struggles of the town and she's willing to

068help as best she can. um knowing that this is a busy time for her, um she will do the best you can and and we did offer ask her some questions and she did like the question of are we losing out on money um uh because uh our kids from Gilbert aren't being accounted for. So she got she got us some information about that. Um we asked her a few other things. Uh the biggest eye openener of that day was how busy the capital was. Um because that was all about education that day. Uh I could hardly get a parking spot and I mean you were what testimony 298 >> at 12:30 in the morning. >> So there are over 300 people that testified. We're not the only district that is having problems. Um we

069are by far not the only district. I think every town, even the wealthy towns are having issues. um the the unfunded mandate that the state puts on us um that really has crippled um budgets for every town. Um so I'd like to say it's just us, but it's not. Everyone is in this position. The great thing is is we have somebody in our corner in the state office that knows us, that wants to work with us, and wants to help with us. So, that's what I took up from it. The other uh the other part of it was we got to meet with um an aid with the governor. she asked that myself and Julie put together um a list of what we're running into, the issues that we're having um so she could then

070bring it on to the governor as well. So, we will be getting that to her soon as well. So, um we're doing all we can. We understand that um the struggles of the town. Um we understand, you know, we don't want to raise taxes. We don't want to, you know, we want to provide the best services to our students and right now we are not servicing our students to full capacity. Um, so that's what we are here to discuss. Um, that's what whether it takes tonight or another night, we got to get to a point of making the best decision for our kids, but also keeping in mind what's best for our town as well. So, um, that's our jobs for tonight. And, uh, hopefully we can move forward at some point. Do you have

071anything else? >> No, I think someone wants to make a motion and then Yep. >> have discussion on the budget itself. >> All right. So, we're going to move on. >> Can I read something first for transparenc transparency? >> Sure. >> Okay. I just want to make everybody aware because I don't know if you guys are aware. Four of us um wrote a letter to Dr. Lubie. So, I just want to read it to you and just because I don't know if you you other ones were aware that we did this. So, it says while >> Hold on, hold on. Just understand that tonight is not a night to add. >> So, I can't talk again. Okay. Tonight, not tonight. We >> the we are here for an action item that we can discuss that

072>> we So because this is because this is a special meeting, we cannot add items. >> I'm not adding anything. You So you don't want transparency. Okay. >> I I'm just I'm wondering >> So what does this have to do with the budget? >> Budget tonight. >> It actually was about the budget and the stuff presented. Is it about performance? >> Yes. >> That should be executive session. >> Okay. So, I'll just I I don't I don't feel that's true, but >> Well, is we're not in a position to make a motion. Um I don't think this is something that we can vote on make a motion on >> for this particular item. I don't >> that could be executive session. >> I disagree. Well, in order if we make a motion, >> you do

073understand that if it's about performance and it is made public, then Julie can sue us as a board of education because you are allowing the public to hear about performance which is done in executive session. >> Well, it's just like inaccurate numbers. That's basically what it was that represented >> you. That's different. What you just said it was about performance. >> Well, she gave us numbers that were incorrect. So, I could categorize that as performance matter on the budget, >> right? >> Talk about your adjustments. That is the business of tonight >> and we can get into that those numbers within the discussion of but that's all we're going to discuss when it comes to whether we first of all we and once we get into this we we don't have the numbers in reference

074to the possibility of moving seven >> right but when you put something forward in in a board meeting you should have their eyes dotted and their tees crossed and I would never I'm on forward the boards for my company. I would never walk into a meeting being unprepared information. >> What we will do is we can make a motion to get into discussion to review the budget, discuss the budget and possibly act on the budget within the context of that. We can there will be discussion um or communication about moving seventh grade back, but we're going to keep that in the confine. We're not going to talk about feelings of appropriateness or anything like that. We just talk about Okay. >> So, we'll get into the context of that because we're not going to gloss

075over the fact that there was a motion to look into bringing seventh grade back. that's going to be part of the budgetary discussion. >> That's well, >> we don't we don't know because we don't have the correct information or not. So, until we do, until we hear from Gilbert, until we hear everything, we don't have all that information. So, that's what we'll discuss once we get into the So, we don't know. Could be accurate, could be not. We don't know that. >> Okay. >> Not agreeing with it. So action item uh fiscal year 2027 budget review discussion and possible action. Would anyone like to make a motion to open up the discussion concerning the budget? >> I will make a motion to open up discussion. >> What would you could you >> I would like

076to make a motion to pass the um budget that was given to us from Dr. the full budget without >> So you would like to make a motion to approve the budget. >> Uh do you have that budget number in front of you? >> Oh, I do. Um so I would like to make a motion to pass the budget for 26,550,562. >> I will second that motion. Hold on one second. >> Is that the right number? >> That is not the right number. >> Nope. >> That is the number that I presented. We talked about that we can reduce that number by >> just based on things as prices are coming in, you know, 3,000 on the workers compens. Um, >> we discussed >> what we discussed uh the other night was the million dollars

077the number of items that brought it down. >> So Christy can make any motion she wants and then you can all discuss. You need a motion on the floor to have the debate. >> Okay. >> And she can always withdraw that if a different motion starts to emerge. But if I could suggest that instead of 26550 as presented, you want to do 26509482 which is updated to reflect um the >> actual Gilbert number, the workers comp piece that came in, the Medicaid reimbursement vendor change, the little things that we had. >> Right. So attempt number three. Um, I would like to make a motion to approve the budget of 26,59,482. >> Okay, >> I will second that. Yes, >> we are open for discussion. >> Just point of order. Who's taking the minutes? Tiffany's not

078here. >> I am. >> Okay. >> Um, just just so we know. Oh, so it's also audio. But Matt, could you type that number up? So the >> I have it. It's being transcribed on Google. >> Okay. >> So I'll just repeat it just just as we have it. >> I'll repeat it right now. There's a motion to approve the budget at 26,59,482, which is the superintendent's proposed budget less the adjustments. we discussed during the committee meeting and we have a second. So we are now open for discussion. >> So um let me ask a question then. Everything we did Tuesday night is >> no now we can discuss >> discussing it. >> We're not saying we're accepting that number. So now we can discuss and make adjustments if we need to. >> Okay. So

079>> okay I would like to bring up that the information Dr. Lubby gave us Tuesday evening which comes to a little over a million dollars close to $900,000 a million dollars the items we discussed Tuesday night >> at committee >> y >> is now made part of the proposed budget for this year >> so we we would first of all have to amend the updated motion but let's let's discuss what we are looking so we have a proposed proposed budget which in that 26509482 would be a total increase of 2 million 515,617. >> Matthew, can you switch to the Google sheet? That would be helpful. Thank you so much. >> So understanding the impact it has, right? So 2.5 um We I want everyone to understand that um when we're talking in relations and and

080I understand we're we're we're just a part of a budget. Um but if you look at um a million dollars is equated to 1 mil or a 3% increase to the budget. So a million dollars equates to a 3% increase. um $2 million 6% and so on and so forth. So, uh in relation to the town understanding that that that's what we're looking at, right? Um I think as we discussed the other night as a board, um 2.5 is a big ass to the town of an increase. is it's it's a large ask. Um I am taking into account the effect the conversation that um we were just having about your meeting with the governor's office um and the new proposal that just happened this morning. Um I think we we should give ourselves the

081gift of time before we start making cuts. >> Okay. There are um and I know too, one of the things that we did also discussed on Tuesday was how important it was to us to build up the special education program so we could start bringing some of those out of district students back which would save us on the tuition and the transportation costs by cutting the BCBA, the special ed teacher, the paras, the behavior tech, we're pushing oursel backwards in instead of moving ourselves forward and closer to that. So I think we need to make decisions based off of what is also best for the future. Not to mention our job here is for the the number one priority is the students of our community. Um any cuts that we make is going to have

082an impact on the students. It is also going to have an impact on our educators and our school staff. Um, one of the things that we all said that we were hoping to do was help with teacher retention. I think adding extra supports as opposed to taking them away whenever there is a budget discussion is also really important. The teachers need to feel that they are respected and supported by their board and one of the ways to do that is to provide them the supports that they need to accurately or to efficiently educate our children. So, um, first I applaud both of you for doing all this, but unfortunately that's not, you know, set in stone. I deal in absolutes and facts. And at the moment, the money is not there. And I'm not only

083thinking of the kids, but our parents because I I try to say this all the time. We can't take care of our kids if we don't take care of our parents. And if we do raise this, you know, the the budget, we're essentially going to force people out of their homes, out of town, which will then implode everything. So that's >> Can I say something? >> Um, are you done? >> Yes, you can have the >> Thank you. Um, I would say that everybody is sick of spending money. This is a huge increase um to ask the town for. We pay more for everything right now and it's it's quite frustrating. But I do think that our superintendent has presented a very thorough and very reasonable budget. I think we've gone over in detail the

084needs of our students. Um what is being paid uh you know markers, paper, everything. And that is such a small piece of it. this year and for regular people too, health insurance costs have skyrocketed. Same in our district um and Gilbert too. So, you know, the inflation that we are all feeling, our town is feeling as well. I think it would be foolish to preemptively reduce our budget right now. We know this nothing on this budget is extra. nothing is superfluous. You know, at this point, we need this stuff. Um, and I think it would be foolish to act now and to cut it preemptively knowing that maybe hopefully, please. Yeah, it's not set in stone. Of course not. But the board of selectmen will have plenty of opportunity to look at that again in

085six weeks. And then again, our town manager will have another look at it where we are just one line. We don't know what the rest of the town is doing. Our job is to represent the children. And I think that's what we need to keep our eye on and also cross our fingers that we can get in front of the governor and get some help because it really sounds like that is a statewide problem. Um, it's something that everybody is dealing with right now. So hopefully in their big surplus of money that they have, the state is willing to help out towns and school systems that are struggling. >> Could you put page 13 up on the board? >> The budget book. >> Okay. Okay. It starts off. This is town support. Town appropriation 26550

086town support 727 town support the capital repairs. So if you look at the middle paragraph the number comes out to 27. This is what was originally proposed 356. Then you come to the line which we're talking about now. ESC funding education cost shared by the grant to the town. Right now it was originally $7,823,991. Now what's being discussed that Hartford is increasing that to 9 million >> maybe >> and change >> maybe. >> Okay. >> Hopefully. >> So now the page says net cost net cost to taxpayer is 19 million. That's the 7800 minus the 27 million. Right. Which is the number we are presenting to the selectman and the town manager? the very top one town appropriation. >> So it doesn't matter what happens in Hartford if we get $2 million more or not.

087It doesn't come off the line. >> It goes to the town. >> Goes to the town. It doesn't come off our budget. >> Right. And our budget lives within the town budget. So it >> But I'm just saying what we present to the town manager in the next week or so and the selecting the whatever gets discussed in the next six weeks in Harford, that number doesn't change for us. If we want to do the full budget due to this, >> it just offsets the impact on the taxpayer. It does not. >> So to me, there's no We either talk about the cuts we talked about Tuesday night, a little over a million dollars. We make a motion to that goes to the selectment or we make the selectment the motion to to go to

088the full board the full number to the selectment and by the time it gets to the town manager and the selectman in number of weeks that answer from Hartford would be made and then they can take that into consideration >> but the wait two more weeks and three more weeks this is pushing this thing on >> nowhere. We have a deadline till Friday, so we can't wait that long. But yes, um I don't think we should really take into account the possibility of getting that money. So what we're voting on should be based on the budget we have in front of us with the hope that that could ease the time. >> But that hope is with hope to the town, not to us. >> Well, ultimately, yeah. So I I I think in that

089light like if we present a budget to the town manager, it's not like in six weeks we can say, "Oh, we'd like to add to it." >> No, but I would like to I would like to I would I would if when this motion is completed, I would like to put a motion on the floor. >> Yeah. All right. Well, let's keep discussing. >> Okay. >> Right. So, you know, I think we we kind of got into the weeds a little bit more on Tuesday night. I think we talked about whatifs, >> right? >> Um possibilities. Um and I think I think it's you know the public should hear um you know if because we went from 25 right >> right >> to the possibility of getting down to under two. >> Right. >> But

090how did we get there? So I think it's good that we have that discussion. how did we get here there um to and I think the public needs to know how we got there and and what that looks like. Um the one thing I want to offer is um we are underst staffed. We have been for years. Um, we have had money thrown at us as band-aids to help fund the school system beyond the ECS, beyond what the town gets us. Um, our kids aren't getting the need, all the needs that they deserve or are required to have. Let's put it that way. Um, and you know, if we had I think we talk about a wealthy uncle all the time, we could get up to staff again um and get moving in the right

091direction for the, as we saw earlier, for what we have to work with, we're doing a pretty darn good job. We have amazing teachers in this district. um our scores if you compare them to the the demographics and we do a really good job. Um so I want that to be known to our teachers and to the community that we're doing the best with what we have. Does that mean we don't need more? We do. Um, but I want everyone to understand that 2.5, yes, it's a wish list, but it's a needs wish list. It gets us whole. Um, I am a realist. I understand 2.5 is not going to work, especially when we got an 8% increase last year uh to the taxpayer. I'm a realist. So, tonight we have to figure out what

092number we can present to the elector that is not ridiculous. Okay. >> Um, >> so do we make a vote now on >> We are questions. I've got some questions more like clarifying questions for me because um I'll walk through the budget and so a couple questions. The town support for our budget. We're on the assumption that that number will stay the same. I just want to be clear. >> Um I wouldn't make that assumption. We're hopeful. We've given when we give this all to Paul, we'll give him a number for town support that includes a capital plan, but last year he kept our town support same as the prior year. So I don't I don't know what'll happen with that. >> So when you say capital plan, I'm going to call it page 100.

093The very last page of our budget book, that's the capital plan that you're speaking of. >> And it is in the town support. The money is in town support. >> Okay. The 270 227 fiscal year 26 27. Yeah, the 227 >> 268183. >> It should be the amount to fund the first year. >> Okay. Yeah. It said 227 613 plus at the bottom. >> Yep. Town support. Right. So there's >> a modest increase in >> information. Um I was just going through when was the roof on Pearson replaced? I thought it was the '9s. >> Uh 257 years ago >> because in the budget book it says replace 43y old Pearson roof. So that number is incorrect >> that are different ages. I don't know 43 year old. There are probably sections that are 43

094years old, >> but not all of it for sure. >> Okay. >> So of the typical $700,000 for town support. I'm rounding >> 227 is included in that expectation. >> No, it's >> it's on top of the 700 expectations. >> A separate budget line. Capital is separate. >> It's that's the capital. That's the first year of the capital plan. >> Okay. >> For a total of 996. >> So we're looking at 996 from the town support >> to help us out >> if that y happen. Right. >> So um okay. So that that's that question on could could we go to capital projects and look to find savings there, cuts there? Um, just wondering what the appetite is for that. >> A water heater, a gym heating unit, gym floor. Can we postpone that another

095year? Um, air conditioning, the bleachers, the windows, the countertops. >> So, usually you may I say something? Usually in those type of physical items, the longer you wait to do them, the more problems they cause and the more expensive they get. So, if you want to use this as a slide rule, you push it out the year, the money goes up. >> I'm just looking at that and I recognize that and that's why we're sitting at the Pearson roof going to referendum because we've been sitting on the roof for so long >> and um just so the public knows there's mold underneath that roof. There's concerns about um asbestous under that roof. I mean, that's the referendum initiative. However, I know the reality of I'd rather not cut the instructional core of delivering services to

096our needy kids. I'd rather see if we can postpone something that's physical. And I know the roof is essential. This is separate from the roof is my point. So, I'm just wondering, you know, as we look to, and I know you all had your workshop on Tuesday about areas, um, but if it's something that is in the realm of 227,000, that's pretty substantial. It is pushing it down the road, but it means that we keep a BCBA. It means we keep field experiences. It means we keep our supplies for our teachers, the gifted program that was spoken about tonight, the custodian that we need to clean our buildings and keep them clean for the community that's invested the tax dollars. I think that's important. Um, so I think we explore that. >> But, uh, my

097understanding when we discussed the roof last year and this year, the sixth floor classrooms get wet. >> Two of them >> that disrupts that disrupts the school day. I know. I know specifically, >> but that's the referendum. That's separate from the >> That doesn't include the But was it determined there was mold? Cuz I heard there might be mold, but that it wasn't >> moisture. Determined there's moisture. >> Moisture. Not mold. Okay. I'm just >> Well, we didn't test for mold. I wouldn't want to say there isn't, but I >> But it hasn't been proven there's mold there. >> It hasn't even been out. >> There's certainly moisture there. >> So, this 227 or 268 doesn't include the roof. That's separate. That's a >> See what I'm saying? >> The only thing we would do

098is push the water heater out another year. >> Well, that's what I'm thinking because I I don't want to lose the instructional core >> and we're getting if we're going to get all that money then we have money. >> No, no, it's only 51,000 if you move the water heater. >> But I'm asking so if we get that increase that you're talking about the $2 million, does that then carry through every year or is that a onetime stipen? >> We don't know. >> But you're talking about the roof. No, we talk about the money from two million for the two million for >> So you said we could possibly get an extra $2 million if all this stuff goes through in in in the state. >> The way the bill that's in committee reads, it

099would go up $1,000 to the base in fiscal year 27, another thousand the following year. I think it's got six years worth of thousand >> and then it would stay at that point. I mean it would never do. It's not a onetime stipen is what the question is, >> right? It's $1,000. So actually it would be $2,000 more two years from now. 3,0003. >> So we could be counting this in our budget going forward after this year. >> If this passes, it will become part of the story. So then we'll have plenty of money to do the capital >> hopefully. >> And the bill includes language that says after six years of $1,000 increases to the base, then it would be set to go up based on there were two different indicators. But okay, >>

100currently the ECS hasn't moved in, I don't know, 101 15 years. But if we got that extra money, then we can then look at this next year. The capital improvements. >> Well, it'll always go to the town, but it will be part of it, right? >> I mean, I I also think, as we discussed the other night, is the obviously the insurance impact was huge this year. Um, >> the expectation next year is we're not us and Gilbert and I think the town is not going to get whacked. I think we're rated correctly now. I think underrated for years and I think we've caught up. So, starting with that deficit this year, um, you know, I don't think we're going to be looking at that next year. So, that should free us up better for

101next year as well. So, yeah. Um, so I think my hope, my belief is we'll be in better shape next year starting out putting together a budget than we are this year. So I think I think this year was just everything coming to a head. Um the the end of the end of funding um grant funding uh you know the the which mass the deficits we had in the in the in the past and then you know the insurance on top of that. So, I think we'll be in better shape next year, but that's next year. But yeah, I think I think that's I think I think we should discuss that >> because just so I'm clear, your town asked town support is 996. I'm rounding of which includes the 227. >> Yep. >> So,

102um, listen, I appreciate you guys taking this on. I mean, this is not easy, right? I mean, there's a lot of you that just joined on. So, it's it's a lot of in and out with this money and it's going to constantly be rotating. You know, nothing's done until the thing gets passed by the voter. >> Yes. >> Everything constantly moves until then. >> So, um I'd like us to look at that. I just had another question on page 92 of our budget. >> All right. 92. On line number 530, it says communications. Um, you know, I'm just trying to find some savings that again do not affect our kids. I'm wondering what that communications is about at $42,000, which is the proposal for >> that's phones. >> That was the phones, cell phones and

103everything. So, communicate between >> do we lease them, loan them? Do we have them own them? We just switched carriers to save money over the summer. >> All right. >> Um not maybe carriers isn't the right word, but we just got all our phones. >> I'm not going to remember the details from an onrem setup, which is very archaic to a cloudbased system. >> So that allows people to get their voicemails through their email. They Yeah, it's it's a much more modernized method >> and we haven't had that prior. Yeah, apparently this was set up right before I started. >> And we didn't do it >> to get more services. We did it because what we had, we were at a required upgrade point that was going to cost us a ton of money. So

104switching to the cloud-based actually saved us money >> and updated us. >> Okay, thank you for that. >> So this is the phones in the building, >> the fax machines, and for the small number of people that carry cell phones. >> Okay. Um, I had another question on page 57 and 58 of our budget. >> Um, in district special transportation, the fuel for the vans, and then there's fuel for buses on page 58. >> That's above and beyond our contract with the bus company. >> No, it's so We always had a rule with the bus company that we would provide x amount of gallons of fuel and if they used anything beyond that they had to pay us because we do our fuel with the town so we get a better price for it. >>

105Okay. So that's creating a line item for it >> to itemize it. Okay. Um, page 71, supplies. Listen, I know our supplies are very important for teachers inside the individual classrooms and it does have effect on things for sure. Um, is there any way we can look at that 57,000 any savings yield there? >> So, we are >> we're scrappy. If we need to make a cut, I mean, this is the same number that's in the current year's budget. There's no increase for increased costs to things. >> I do have worksheets behind this that show what's being spent on all the get the parents to pay for it. That would be nice. go on Facebook, let them go on Facebook like they all do and ask for stuff that's >> um so if we needed

106to I mean we can you wipe that out? No, >> clearly not. Part of what's in this money is things like the math workbooks and the workbooks that go with >> um >> okay >> and those are within the grade levels. I could probably >> okay >> find and give you a sense of that if you wanted. But >> all right, >> each grade level, the bulk of the money is the replacement workbooks. >> The smaller part of it is copy paper to make, >> you know, >> make materials and glue sticks and Sharpies and >> or whiteboard markers and >> Okay, >> but to the good if you modestly cut that, we will figure it out. Sorry for my ignorance, but what's the difference between that supply page 71 and 77? Then these are

107inside the classroom directly, so teachers don't have to pay out of pocket. Again, 71 is primarily the um workbooks for math and reading as well as like the science consumables, things like the straws and rubber and science, >> the stuff to do a sink and float activity. Page 77 is the supplies that run the school. So you've got the walkie talkie batteries instruction. Got >> things like cumulative folders. >> Yep. >> For the incoming kindergarters. >> The title. Okay. Can Okay. Between it and 70 71 and 77 pages 71 and 77 we're talking neighborhood of 65,000. Um, I'm I'm just looking at possibilities. 65K and um I think I'm done. You could talk about what you all talked about on Tuesday. >> Do we want to talk about Does anyone want to talk about the

108scenarios that were brought out on Tuesday and where committee meeting. >> Yeah, the committee meeting >> as far as trying to reduce what what were the options? >> We took notes for that. >> Well, I can tell you um if we go to >> I mean I just wrote you know what the numbers were. I didn't put the items down. >> I can >> You're playing with a lot of numbers too. I can tell you a little bit about what the numbers are once we get there. So, if you go to page 20, >> right, >> the status quo budget comparison, >> so we have on there the BCBA, which Gio talked a lot about the importance of that and importance of the second one. Um, we have a special ed teacher, >> right? two

109special ed para educators, uh, behavior tech, um, lunch monitors, custodians, and then the stipen for the gifted and talented. Speaking to the stipen for the gifted and talented, um, originally when we started this process, we were looking to hire a gifted and talented teacher, which would cost about 70 grand. Um, Julie and I discussed that are capable people within the building that could um fulfill that position at each grade level. So offering a stipen to those teachers that are willing to fulfill that um would be a huge savings to the district and it would provide a service to the kids that tend not to get the needed instruction because they do enough to get by. Um but if they need more rigor or anything like that, the the instructional teacher doesn't have the time or

110energy to put towards those kids because they are dealing with um you know the special ed kids um with the lack of support they receive in the classroom for that. So the gifted and talented kids are important and we're trying to provide that service for them and we're looking that's one thing that I think we all agree that doesn't go. It's a $6,000 expense. Um, everything else on there was talked about um >> I think we came out >> as being gone, >> right? So that came out to around 298 298,000. My notes show. >> Well, no, you have the >> So >> we mixed I mean I can >> So there was there were a couple other cuts beyond that that we discussed. >> Yeah. I mean that but that was the first one

111on my list that I had was page 20 cut down 200 taking 298,000 out of that list. >> I think there's going to be more. >> So we did it in a funny order. We the 298 number your memory is correct that came from some different things. By the end we got to that list. But at the meeting on Tuesday night, we talked about one um regular ed classroom teacher. >> The field trip money, >> right, >> two PAR educators, the lunch monitors, the part-time custodian, and one special ed teacher was 298. Then we said, well, that's not enough. So you put in the BCBA and the BT got you to 463. Then you put in the SSOS and the preK teacher which got you to 641, >> right? >> And then there is um

11241 I think it's not yet in there. The 41 that we've already >> right >> the little bits. So you were at about total. Um yeah. >> Yeah. So where that if in discussing all that and obviously When we're talking about cuts, that's a true cut, >> right? >> Um, anytime you're talking about cutting classroom teachers, that that's a true cut to the act. >> So, um, so with those with that discussion and would that we would be looking >> Matthew, can you go back to the spreadsheet, please? >> We would be looking at an increase from the 2.515617. Um, making all those adjustments, we'd be down to 1874617. >> And the things that are gone is the list I just read. >> Correct. What the biggest one for me is losing that second BCBA.

113So factor 122,000. That's a big loss for me. Uh seeing Gio's workload um in comparison to what his workload should be. I also feel like you know he's stretched thin between three buildings. Having a second one could provide the correct support to all three of the build buildings, not just him, Sailor Pearson, but also to Gilbert. Um, so >> just to show you the impact. >> I have a hard time with that one >> with the but with the BCBA back in I don't know if that's too tiny to see for everyone but the increase is down at 8.32 total is a little shy of 2 million. >> A little shy of 2 million. >> Well, can we reexplore Norah's idea of pushing off the capital? >> Yeah. Um, and then hopefully we can bring

114back some the others the other. >> Yeah. I mean, our job is not We got to give her a number and then she figures it out. >> Yeah. >> So, our job is not to say what we've done. >> Well, we got our Let's go to the Let's go to the budget. >> Let me just point out that that the Norah's idea, and it's a perfectly fine one, won't move the needle on the appropriated budget because It's, you know, that first page um that shows the appropriated budget and then there's the town support and then the total like the appropriated number won't move by cancelelling the capital line. >> Doesn't mean you can't do it and consider that an offset because it is still part of the total package, but if you're very focused specifically

115on this number, it doesn't move it, >> right? Um, the other thing that was brought up, um, obviously at our last meeting was the potential to move seventh grade back into the Winchester public schools. Um, Julie can speak to this and and she did say it. She did say that none of these options are great options. um the numbers that are equated to that, we can't guarantee that that's a savings. And in fact, when we finally reached out to Gilbert to ask for them to put the numbers together, they still they it's not as easy as you would think to come up with it. There's a lot of moving factors that go into that calculation. Um I spoke with super uh head of schools Susi today. Um he doesn't have the numbers for us now.

116Um and he could have it by Tuesday, but he could not. So we don't know. Um, I don't know if that is a viable option or anything that we need to uh look into because the numbers that were thrown out to us the other night um we don't know if that's a accurate assessment. It led us to the numbers that were given to us led us to want to discuss it further, but we don't know how accurate those numbers are until we get the number from and and go from there. We know what we can figure out on our side what it could cost to bring back everything, but we don't know what it's going to do to Gilbert's budget line. Um, so we can't really take that into consideration and I know if we'll

117have that time in time to make a final decision on on voting on this budget. Um, so I I I did want to say that we're not dismissing it as a board. We just don't have all the information to to make a decision on it at this point. Um, I think I think moving forward we have to be very on how we present things. Um and uh and uh we just we just have to be careful on that so we don't lead us down a road that could be a dead end. So >> well these are unprecedented times. We're talking about a potential budget increase of $2.5 million which is in in my tenure on the board has been completely unprecedented in the needs of where we're at. So, like I said, I appreciate the

118six of you that are brand new to this board having to deal with something that by and large we knew was coming and we knew the ACS was flat. I think it would be prudent. I mean, the the the the potential plans Julie presented to us are all potential there. Nothing's in that's our job to decide. Julie's job is to present us possible options. >> Could I ask a question? >> And these are abouts. >> Can I ask a question? I mean being like you said new and you're you you're the experienced one. >> How did we get there the last eight years that way? Why was it so flat? No. Why the whole budget was flat for a number of years? >> How did that how did you manage that >> to keep it

119flat? >> Like grants commissioners network alliance monies which thank God is still there. um we pulled money out of our savings account, our emergency fund, and we drilled it down to $1,800. We um had come up with miracles at some point to be able to to meet the needs of keeping the budget flat and we had those grants that have just simply it's a perfect storm. They've disappeared. >> Well, the only France I understand that disappeared was the Culver. >> Commissioner's network slowly disappeared as well. Over time, they let us off slowly reducing it. >> That was about $1.5 million that dwindled off and disappeared just as CO hit and the co money started. So that was a $1.5 million disappearance. >> But then all of a sudden CO came in. Everybody looked at the

120same money after >> same money, same money. Let's not discuss it. Let's just >> And the co money was very helpful. Some of it was spent on one time things like >> opening a second school which obviously is money gone but part of it was there to deal with um the mental health issues that came out of co >> the problem is the money for those issues is gone >> and the mental issues are still here. Yes, I understand that. Yes. >> I mean we did cut an administrator at some point. >> I'm just asking because I've dealt with budgets all my career and you know when you say flat budget for eight years. >> We had a superintendent act as an assistant principal. >> Okay. Um, and so that was painful. So, um, >>

121maybe it would be helpful to look at, we have that staff, >> but that's why I, you know, we've, we've built up and we've got talented people and they've worked their butts off all these years. Our return on investment, which we hear in the public, has been above the state average or better, preK through six. And the science has been phenomenal. This district was awarded a math award for its growth in the state of Connecticut when we came out of receiverhip because our scores shot through the roof because our teachers work so hard pre-K through six. So the momentum is there. That's why I think we should be looking at the 220 what have you the physical plant. Um and and and you know a lot of the new positions that we're talking about if

122I got you right Frank we're talking about one regular ed teacher field trips two paras lunch monitor custodian special ed teacher BCBA which we don't want to cut SSOs was that part of it did I hear that right >> SSOS was a direct response to the needs last fall when people were afraid that kids weren't safe at school and if kids aren't safe they're not learning we found kids were happy but SSOs really have a connection that they've made with these kids. They want to be at school. And that's the biggest concern we have as a community is getting our kids to school. You can't teach an empty chair. I've got colleagues that say that all the time. And one of the goals in the state and the nation is to get our kids back

123at school. SSOs have been playing a critical role in that in that area. However, I would say that the two new paras is a new the lunch monitor is a new the custodian is a new the one specialed teacher is a new BCBA. I don't know. I mean the totals you're talking about is but I'd rather offset that with the physical plan. >> Also responsive just to Frank's question. Frank we pulled up for you the enrollment and staffing trends. If you go back to the 2021 school year which is sort of the beginning of COVID you can see we were about 60 kids less than we are now or 50 is that >> sorry? >> No 60 right? 540 to 600 roughly. Um this number of certified staff even though there's that many more kids

124has only moved 3.8 people and the support staff is actually as low as it was before then. So we've gone up a lot of kids and a lot of mental health concerns and not a lot of adults. >> Let me let me ask another question. This isn't money but since you said you went to caret I mean you went to the capital and you spoke to the people there. You mentioned the other day that book you showed me when we left the meeting. This is what I have to deal with. The unfunded mandates. >> Oh, the pile of unfunded mandates. Yeah. >> How do we get rid of them? >> I'm I'm serious. I'm really serious. I mean, this is a If you want to run a school as a business, we got to make

125a profit. >> Actually, one of the things I said to the commissioner is, can we stop having legislators stick their nose in >> Exactly. Unfortunately, that's not going to >> I mean, I can see you you talk about getting 77% back on capital, you get this money back on grants, you know, but when they give you a mandate that you can't afford, which we can't, when do we say enough is enough and leave us alone and let us do our business, like you said, let us be the educators for the kids, but get all these other things out of our way. >> Well, they've been doing it for >> I know they I I understand that, >> right? Usually, I mean, sometimes the responses the states have, which is unfunded, unfortunate, are responses to lawsuits

126and various in inequities in systems and or legislators ensuring kids have a certain type of curriculum delivered that reflect the values of the community. >> Okay? >> You know what I'm saying? So, I think you should run for office. >> Let me say something. I mean, we're dealing with our staff in this is well educated people. We're not the factory down there making shoes that, you know, the guy doesn't know what he's doing. I mean, so why can't they let us run the schools? I mean, this is the one operation where you have well-educated people running the system. >> Why do I need some politician telling us what to do and how to spend our money, which he doesn't give? It's not that they're giving us something. They're telling us how we have to spend

127it, when we have to spend it, even though we don't have it. So that that's called private education. >> It's a business. We should figure out a way to make money with this business. Not a business. It is a business. >> We're public servants. >> It's you can make it a public business. Believe me. >> Um we could tell them to stay out of it and then that $8 million is gone with it. But look, I bet you I bet you when you add up all those other pages, the $8 million is nothing compared to what they're asking you to spend. >> You might be right. >> Okay. I have questions on some of them. So on page 54, >> yeah, >> the McKini Vento transportation, and I understand what that's for, but how long

128does that go on? Because if a person, as I understand it, if they leave town and they're in a homeless shelter in Waterberry, we have to go pick them up and bring them back and forth to school. And that's a cost of 42,000 a year. So, how long are we obligated to do that? >> Is it until they gain residence somewhere else? >> Or the end of the school year, right? I think >> No, it doesn't. The end of the school year. You want to speak to it? Kathy is our Mckin Vento liaison. >> Yeah. Turn that baby on, please. >> When a student is deemed homeless under the Mckin Vento at federal law, That protection exists for a full school year >> school year >> regardless of when they obtain permanent residence. >> Okay?

129So, it's a school year. >> At the beginning of the summer, beginning of July, we have to go through and reaffirm any student in our district who has held that protection the previous year >> and make a determination about whether or not they continue to receive those protections. So what would that inter determination entail? >> They have to prove residency to us or they have to show us that they've lost their home due to economic hardship, a domestic violence situation. There there's a list of criteria that I can forward to Julie and she can get to you. However, that cost of transportation is split between the two districts in which the student is being homeed in and homed from. >> But it only in reality is for a year unless they're still homeless. >> Correct.

130>> Yeah. Okay. >> So there's an audit July one. >> So So is that a realistic number? 42,000 >> based on it. It should be more. >> We've under budgeted. >> So, we have a whole bunch of out of district head. >> They're not considered out of district students the way that students with special needs are considered out of district. >> So, forget this. >> But, for example, >> I'm I forgive me. It could have been last week, but with all of the weather stuff, my days are sort of melding. >> Oh, I get it. Um, we were just made aware by Waterberry that we have new students that we have to pay 50% for to bus back to Waterberry because they're being sheltered here in Winstead in Winchester. >> So that that number could

131increase is what you're saying. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> It has. >> All right. Um, so far this year we spent $17,000 back at the end of November. So we've had a little less than together. They're all kind of in the area. Correct. >> Depending on where they're going to. Yes. And you know the the difference comes when you have >> a sibling set, one of whom's in high school and the other two or three are in elementary school and the times of school differ by an hour >> and they're going to Waterberry. You have to have two different vehicles to transport them. >> Okay. Okay. And then I had another one on the snow plowing. So that would be uh >> Oh, we should announce that. >> Well, I want But I want to

132ask this question though. Is this because we didn't have a truck? >> No. So we always pay >> to have the parking lots plowed. >> Um >> it was the sanding that we were unable to do. >> But would that decrease this? Oh, that's why I'm asking. Did you build into the cost? Um, probably not because we have a like running three-year contract. So, we probably just >> But later on we could do that. >> Do we have this a sander? We just need to have a truck to put the sander on. >> We had the whole back end. >> The sand was falling out the truck. >> We have a sander to attach to a new truck, >> which we're getting. I my company donated a 2020 F250 with a snowplot for free donated

133to the school system. >> I was hoping we'd get to that. >> Yeah. So, but but so that would even be able to be negotiated until >> and it's not in our contract to do that extra. We just kind of throw that on the >> I don't think it'll >> basically sanding. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Still works, >> right? >> So, page 90 might be your question. I think to offset it. There's a various whatever it takes to keep a 15-year-old 2012 pickup truck running. >> Yeah. So, that could be gone. >> We're going to donate that to the town. >> The gift that keeps on giving that to the town because I understand they solely need a pickup truck. So, we should donate that to the town. >> I was going to say you

134probably want to service it so we keep it running. But >> yeah, it's Yeah. Well, it's all going to be they're making sure everything's before it gets gets here. Yeah, >> we could certainly cut that 3,000. We'd probably put a th000 back the following year with the maintenance, >> but by all means. >> Okay. >> Anyone else? >> I just want to second Nora's comment from a while ago just about the importance of the SSOS. Um, I think how you feel about the BCBAS, which I agree with the additional BCBA as well. I feel like the SSOs were added directly because of parent input. Um, and it does also Norah said increases the it just improves the environment of the schools and keeps students coming. >> Lo and I've heard many good things about our

135SSO Intel and how the contracts with students and all that. And I don't disagree, they're important and I know it would be a very unpopular cut. Um, but I think we have to throw everything on the table just to see, you know, >> that the SSOs are something we could use as a potential cut to hopefully get support like use that as this is what could happen. >> This is the I think what we're doing right now is to show this is these are these are potentially on the table >> and this is the impact. So >> the research needs to continue on these things too because we don't know how the town board of selectmen will respond to us really don't. >> No, I have no idea. Um, so speaking of that, does anyone

136have any other questions concerning what's in the budget right now? Any other recommendations, suggestions? Um, the only the only recommendation I had, I brought it up a couple months a couple of weeks ago, using the town recreation department like we used during the summer at the beaches that they could get the interns, college interns to work with the children when they needed like a cool off area or something. >> You mean replace BTS with students untrained college. >> Uh, go ahead. >> Well, I I don't know if Kathy wants to speak to >> the what a BT actually does. >> Behavior technicians in Pearson and Hinsdale at this time respond largely to day-to-day crisis. They also have a schedule of students that they accompany to the reset room so that they can get sensory experiences

137to um manage dysregulation and become self-regulated and be able to return to class. >> And that's part of a sensory diet that exists for certain students. Um right now we have two behavior texts at P Pearson and one at Hinsdale. I haven't checked with that person's steps on a daily basis recently, but I know she is outdoing me by four or five times a day. >> No. >> And she is constantly moving. Um they also all three of them respond to tier 2 and tier three um assistance calls to classrooms. And two of our behavior technicians are trainers for safety care, which is our um crisis management deescalation training that we provide to staff so that should a student need to be deescalated either verbally or physically, they have the proper training to do so.

138>> So I guess asking interns from I guess the wreck department. >> Well, the wreck would run it. They would run it. >> They would run it >> like they right now what they do for the summer program. They have college interns working with the kids during the summer. >> Sure. >> Now, I'm saying is if they could work with them during the school year at the school. So, does that help us financially in any way? >> So, in addition as extra hands would be phenomenal. The reality is the work they're doing as a summer camp counselor is the feel-good well behaved. We're gonna go swimming. We're gonna play foursquare. It wouldn't replace BTS who are trained up to manage the big. >> No, I love that you're always looking at things like that. I

139think if there are people available to come in and be more hands, we certainly can put them to good use, but I don't know that there's a position it would replace. >> Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? >> Yeah, I've got questions. Just going back to the paras um and the new special ed teacher at 70,000. The paras each are 32,000. Okay. Um can you run us through again if these were cut? Are we out of compliance with IEPs? How would that hit us? Would our case managers double their case management numbers? Those positions were requested because of the current needs that we are experiencing at our youngest learner grades prek through kindergarten. >> Also in anticipation of looking at birth to three referrals to the district for incoming three-year-olds, the level of significance of students

140coming in. I actually originally had requested more than two para educators based on those numbers um but knew that that would probably not work financially when we need a par educator or a special education teacher to meet the needs of specific students and we are not able to provide that the way that an IEP is written, we are in fact out of federal compliance and That means that a family can take us to due process. They could take us to mediation. At which point, if I'm not able to negotiate a settlement with the family through the use of attorneys and the state department of education, a hearing officer, much like a judge, can determine what the outcome of that dispute is going to be. >> We do have an appeal process through that um which

141ratchets up through circuit courts and yada yada yada. We don't want to do that. >> I'd rather use money for kids than lawyers. >> Um, I do everything I can to make sure that we're meeting the needs of students so that we're not in those positions. And I have the goal of retiring without ever going to a due process hearing. And so far, >> I'm on track with that. I think too >> I will say and I shared this with both Kurt and Julie the other night. In my past when we've had the kinds of cuts that we're talking about now, special education costs and numbers of students identified have increased because if I can't meet the needs here, I have to look outside the district, which is something I do not enjoy doing. I

142don't I don't like that. um >> for contracted services >> or placements. >> Yeah. Out out of district placements. >> Um I work as Julie has shared about testifying, you know, on behalf of the district. I work very diligently through my professional organization with the legislation that's being provided as con for consideration and passage. And I advocate pretty diligently and have for over 20 years to improve what we offered students and the cost of it. But since co we have a very very serious staffing shortage in this country for educational professionals and special education specifically. We started the year with over 300 vacant special education teaching positions and over a thousand empty para educator positions. I would love to create an autism program here in this district and I have a meeting tomorrow with the

143company that Gio actually used to work with to kind of get their information. What would it cost? What would it take to do that here in this district? >> There's still a cost associated with that. Um, >> but if you brought people in, in other words, you started that and you brought other students in, do we make money off? I mean, does it make a negative impact on the budget? >> So, do they other school districts? >> I'm going to give you I'm going to give you a reverse example. >> Okay. >> I have placed students in other town programs that have done this. You would think the costs would be less because it's housed within a public school. It's usually more because the people, the company has to, they're private. They're not bound by

144our contracts. >> They have to find the people to come in and work with the students. In a private autism placement, you have a BCBA per classroom of maybe three or four students versus one for an entire district. You don't necessarily have pareducators working with students onetoone or 2:1. You have registered behavior technicians that make a lot more money than a PAR educator makes or a BT makes because they've had 40 hours of credentialed training and they are credentialed by the same authority that a behavior analyst is credentialed by and has to perform under the same types of ethics boards that the behavior analyst has to abide by. All of that takes money. The agency that one of the two agencies that we were getting a behavior analyst from in the past, I've approached him

145twice. Said, "Hey, you're doing this in other towns. Why can't we do that here in Winchester?" The simple answer is I can't find anybody willing to drive to Winchester and I can't find behavior analysts that live in the area to hire. He's tried. He has actively recruited people >> to try and do this and he has one >> and that person was working in our district two and a half days and was costing us $120 an hour. So respectfully I say to you that making all of these cuts I certainly understand it 2.5 is a very big number. I'm a taxpayer in a town, too. One of the ones that Julie had up there that didn't perform so well. Special education is a big part of that. It's required by federal law. In addition to

146requiring it, we do get a grant about $347,000. Nancy, we get two grants. One of which is $347,000. The other one I think is between 10 and 14,000 and that's specific to 3 to 5 year olds. In order to qualify for those grants every year, we have to do what's called maintaining effort. We have to spend equal to or greater than the last two years that we spent specifically on special education. And if we don't, we have to justify why there's a decrease. So if a teacher who's a veteran teacher retires and they're at the highest level of the pay scale retires and we replace that person with a first or second year teacher, >> you're penalized. >> No problem. No, you're not penalized in that regard. That's acceptable. >> Prove that. >> If a

147student who costs $300,000 moves and isn't replaced by another one who costs the same, that's allowable and acceptable. But if a town says, "We're going to cut your department budget by x thousands of dollars," that is not an allowable exception or adjustment. And there are financial penalties for that. you could lose the opportunity to gain that those two grants in the next year as well as having to pay monies back out of the local appropriation based on the federal formula for how much you were deficient in your maintenance of effort. >> Uh speaking to the shortage area right now we have two open positions. >> We have two full-time open positions and we have two maternity leaves. All of which >> How many applications do we have for those positions? >> One. >> And all

148of those positions right now are being covered by our current case managers. So our case loads have increased. The demands on their time have increased. We're short para educators. So we're playing we're constantly playing chess and checkers with people to make sure that needs are being covered. And beyond that impact, now you have kids that should be receiving at times pullout service. Um, and we don't have the bodies to do that. So, they're in the classroom and which could cause a disruption to the classroom learning environment. >> It's a domino effect for sure. So, we're not talking about getting more regular ed teachers or more. We're talking about support staff. Um, special ed and support staff or special ed is is is where we're deficient as as a as a district. Um, and we have

149been for a long time. So, that's that's the struggle we have in this district. And we have many kids that have the the needs these needs um more so than other districts. And you know we we were compared to like the region 7 schools and um >> different communities >> different product. So thank you So, we currently have a motion on the table. >> Um, field trips, page 69 is 16,000 and then what's the other page? 6,000 is it? >> Right. Field trips is 22,000. >> 22 total. 22,000. Okay. Um, got you. >> Yeah. >> What I'm tracking for you all is as you indicate things and I'm hoping I'm picking up what you're putting down, but I took all of the things in that list except for the BCBA and total those here, the

150519 number. So when we sat down, the motion was the 26509 number. If we removed one classroom teacher, field trip money, two pair educators, the lunch monitors, the part-time custodian, the special ed teacher, a section of or prek teacher, both SSOs, and the BT that's in the budget, the additional one that would remove 519,000 from the budget. The total increase would be that 1 1996617 number. The increase would be that 8% number. And then down below what you can see is this is what's left of an increase. And below it is the percent from the previous year. And in our case, we had 377 new spending of that original 906 number. 529 was the status quo increase. So at an increase of three say 56 we're actually 173 less than you know going backwards from

151status quo >> um two things and I can adjust this into what >> could you could you share that with us uh view only if you would if that's possible. Um the other thing is can we itemize the T, the FTS, the paras and the lunch because I don't I want to back out some of that. Um and I want to have a conversation about backing out some of that and then I want to I want to push in the 227 capital. I want to see how that plays. You know what I'm saying? Like if we were to cut it >> the 227 >> it's not >> it's part of the town support >> so it won't have any bearing on this sheet >> it would not allow to do that in other words I

152mean we don't know town support numbers anyway >> right >> so while a great idea >> have an impact on our decision just as that 600 to 800 potential really doesn't have an impact at this point. >> Julie, the teacher proposal that's grade what? >> TBD TB. Okay. Um is that that's laying off staff? >> It's this is a cut. >> Absolutely. >> We talked about cuts last year. This is this is a cut. Um here's the other conundrum just for the paras and uh the request for the special ed teacher. This district was in a position during receiverhip to settle with families because of the inabilities to be in compliance. And so that was something the receiver had to settle oodles of money. Bodles. >> Great. >> PreK. That's That's also a cut. >>

153One section. Yeah. >> A staff member. >> We have three teachers, four sections because it's two full day, two half day, >> right? >> To meet the demand for the number of special ed students. you would probably have to run one full day and two half days rather than just two full days, but the half day is much less popular. So, it's a complicated conversation. >> Yeah. >> One teacher, >> I don't think anyone feels good about this. >> No, it's uh Catastrophic, yes, >> is what I'm going to use as a as a vocabulary word because I've never seen this in my 11 years of doing this. Well, I I think also noted as as Kathy had brought up is we don't we have not had a plan in place um for years to

154address this, you know, potential fall off the cliff moment that we're What was that? If you knew this was coming >> it >> I wasn't there. Don't know. I don't And I'm not It's not the point I'm trying to make here. >> I mean, it kind of is because it's mismanagement at its most mismanagement. >> So, moving forward though, this board as we get through the budget season is we have to have plans in place so we're not at this dire expense every year after year um asking the taxpayers. So we after we get through this have to come together as a board to say all right what are some things we can do creating a a program to keep kids in districts and possibly move out of district kids back into district. That's a

155plan. That's something that we we're researching. We're looking at and if it goes well we can expand beyond that and all that. So that's a plan. um whether it's been discussed in the past or not, it's something that we will discuss, right? We have to find other alternatives so we're not here year after year. So as a board, >> our job moving forward is to think about the future and the impact and what we can do to lessen the burden on the taxpayer as well as providing the best education to our students. It's not going to help us this year. >> No, >> it's got to be a long >> but within our four years be within our four years we have to come up with >> maybe one of the things we should put

156on the list is those nonfunded requirements that you know talk to whatever we have to do to start eliminating some of those things those mandates that cost us money that don't get reimbured. In other words, we got to act like a business. I know. >> So, I will tell you in the busyiness of the Capitol that day, >> the state knows we're we're not the only ones telling them that. >> I understand that. But even though we're a civil >> corporation, which is what we are, it's a corporation. Corporation has to take money in, invest money, and make a profit. >> We're not a corporation, Frank. >> We are. You have to think that way. >> You I know you have to think that way. We have to provide a better service >> next year

157than the c the year before. And that means we make a profit. We're given a better service. We're making a profit. Now, to do that, sometimes you have to get an income in and that's either money or less expense. So, if we can't bring money in, then let's look at what what's costing us that we could eliminate expenses. And if it's a grant, I mean, not a grant, but a requirement that doesn't service us. We can't afford, let me put it this way, we can't afford and it's a mandate, let's talk to the people about changing that mandate and eliminate it. >> I'm not sure there's a lot in our budget that we wouldn't do anyway. I mean, we don't But we have the choice right now. We don't have the choice. What I'm saying

158is >> I'm just trying to think of like which I mean the state makes a lot of requirements and things but we have so I mean everything we have is classroom teachers and the special education supports. I mean I guess if the special education mandates went away but would we really still not meet the needs of kids >> right? Still need to deliver services. I mean, there's like I'm thinking as you're saying that, I'm like, what in this book would I stop doing if the state just mysteriously vanished? And I'm not sure that we're >> Well, so I just think moving forward, we got to we got to think of things that are controllable for our board and and think of ideas that will allow us to ease the burden moving forward. So, um, I

159think that's moving forward is the most important thing. It's not going to help us tonight. It's not going to help us on this budget, >> but I want the community to know that we will be forward thinking. >> Um, and hopefully we can get this district in a position better than it is today before we leave it. >> So, that's our goal. forward. But as of tonight, >> tonight is tonight. >> Tonight is the budget. Um, does anyone feel comfortable tonight putting voting on the original motion that was set forth? So I will read that again. and a motion to approve the budget at 26,509482 which is the superintendent's proposed budget less the adjustments we discussed during committee >> less less the >> less the adjustments that the 41,000 >> oh >> that she she

160>> not the other >> well no the 26509 includes the 41,000 that we discussed >> no but not the other money no >> okay so that's the motion on so that's motion on the table. That that's what started the discussion. Um >> Oh, that's not >> or you could. >> So, we will we will put this motion. >> Motion or Shane, you there? >> Is he muted? >> You there? Did you slice one into the woods? >> No. >> I think his phone died. >> Oh, okay. All right. >> Hello. >> He probably had us muted. >> I did not. >> I've been I've been listening. >> Um, so you're asking if I would vote on this tonight. Is that what >> So, we have a motion to approve the budget at 26,509482. >> Yeah.

161>> Um, so there's a motion and a second. Um, I I think we should bring this. >> Who made the second? >> Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. >> We We needed the second in order to discussion. >> Um I think we should bring this motion to a vote >> and then we'll go from there. >> Okay. So, this has to be a voice vote. >> Okay. >> Um >> so, just so that I'm clear, no one's willing to cut anything. Well, no, not that >> except that 41,000. That's >> the motion on the table 269 to amend, but it's easier to just either withdraw a new motion or vote it. >> Right. >> Or you withdraw. >> So, >> or you can continue talking about cuts and pass it. >> Well, we'd still have to withdraw

162the original motion >> if you come to something you're all prepared to vote on, >> right? You can you can modify but okay. >> Yes, you can modify the motion >> after you discuss further talk cuts. >> Are we willing to talk further cuts? >> Let's take the vote on this and then see where it goes if it's necessary. >> Yes, I think so. But now a motion's on the table. It's been seconded. We have to vote on it. >> Kurt, call the vote. >> Are you Are you withdrawing the motion? >> Good. You want to keep the motion as it >> or would you like and propose? >> No, that's what the original proposal was. So, we should just call the vote on that and then move forward. >> You can amend the motion.

163>> Amendments. >> You can amend a motion and we can discuss >> vote on the amendment. >> We can discuss voting at another number um and then make a final vote on that or we can vote on the current motion and if it succeeds it succeeds. If it fails, it fails and then we move on. >> So the current motion would be the 25,990,48. >> The motion to approve the budget at 26 million 509482, which is the superintendent's proposed budget less the adjustments we discussed during committee. >> Unless you're willing to take further cuts, in which case this is an exercise that just moves the conversation, so it makes no difference, >> right? >> It's up to you. I have a feeling we should make an amendment and if somebody wants to >> I think

164we need to roll up our sleeves and be here till 4 o'clock in the morning. >> Well, I if we take this motion off the table >> is this motion on the table or not? >> It's been on the table this whole I had you want to vote I mean you're not going to pull it. >> Hold on. We can vote on the proposed budget as is or we could talk about amending >> the number. >> I think we need to continue the conversations that we've been having about do I need to make another motion or >> No, I would like you motion make a new motion >> or you could vote on it. It fails and someone else could make a motion. You just need a motion on the floor to continue the discussion.

165Point of order though, the motion that we would if say this fails, the motion would be the same motion, wouldn't it? >> No. >> But we can't engage in conversation unless there's a new motion in which no one knows what that would be the new monetary amount because no one's offered a cut. >> No, we did. We discussed it. >> We discussed it Tuesday night at such >> number close to a million dollars. >> Okay. So, someone's going to make another Okay. >> I'd like to make Can I make a motion to amend the >> No, you can. You can. >> Yeah. She doesn't necessarily have to withdraw it. >> What do you want to do? >> I have no idea. >> Make a motion. >> No, I have to amend my motion before you

166can make a motion. >> Um, >> right. >> No. >> The So, anyone can offer an amendment and then somebody would second that amendment. >> Okay. >> Vote on the amendment. >> If you get a vote to do that, then it's then you're talking about the amended motion. >> That's right. >> Okay. I'd like to make a motion to approve the new proposed budget of 25,990,482. >> You're on the bottom number on the chart. >> That's correct. >> 25. >> So, you're making a motion to amend the main motion. >> Yes, ma'am. >> To that. Yep. >> So, we should have a second. I hope I'm doing this right. >> Um, so that's made by Joseph. Made that motion to amend. Motion to amend. which Joseph so I understand which includes all those cuts. >>

167Yes. >> Okay. >> As enumerated there there um somebody would second that amendment. >> Oh what's the full number Joseph? I'm sorry. >> 25,990,482 the box that's >> the blue box >> that includes the 199 reduction. >> That's that number the new number we talked about with all the cuts. Uh, Frank, >> it brings the increase down to 1,996,000. >> Right. >> Can you see my green box there? >> That's the number that's being reduced. >> You want to highlight it with yellow or something? >> That is the remaining increase, not the amount being taken off of it. The amount being reduced is actually the 560. >> Okay. I understand. Okay. Thank you. >> All right. So we have amen amendment >> to the motion >> to propose a budget of 25,990,482. Do we have

168a second? >> Do that amended motion. >> I'll second I'll second it. >> Okay, we have a second. All right, so this keeps the door open for discussion. Do we take a vote? >> It's >> we can discuss first the amended motion. >> Discuss it. >> I mean, we came up with those numbers, right? >> We have come up with those numbers. Do we have alternatives? >> I would say that this is overly aggressive without talking about other possibilities like supplies, field trip experiences, field trip transportation. Um that don't that do not affect the instructional core. Adult ed page 67 that's $12,000. I'm not sure if we have to do that. >> We do. Okay. So that's mandatory. >> So the field trips are in there. >> That's an unfunded mandate. >> Field trips including

169the transportation. >> Yeah. Okay. >> It's in there. >> Yes. It's 22. >> You're cutting two SSOs. >> A classroom teacher. >> Yep. >> Yes. I I can't I can never ever it's hard enough for me to even get behind not adding the stuff that Dr. Lubie is but to actually bring us below where we were I that is an incredible injustice to our students and our teachers >> our entire community. >> I know this better than any of you. It it is a hit. I understand. >> So, do we vote? >> We still have discussion >> until we discuss >> we have discussed I mean thoroughly. thoroughly, but is there anything anyone else has seen in this budget that we can think about removing before we talk about? And again, we're just giving a

170number >> and then it's up to Dr. Lubby to figure it out from there. Are we comfortable bringing a vote tonight >> with that number of 25,990,482? >> I am not. The question I have is what is a number that you are comfortable at because this is not going to get us any further down the road >> and it becomes a >> I would be comfortable I I'm not comfortable with any of it. >> But um yeah, >> I don't think anyone should be. >> No. And it's I I absolutely cannot justify us going below the status quo. So that's my threshold. My absolute threshold. >> It's hard to go backwards. >> Just know that if this goes >> hard to go backwards when this goes this, they're going to tear it apart even further.

171>> So then why not get them to tear apart then? >> Yeah. Why are we going to do it first? Do we need the phones right now? The 42,000. >> You want the schools to have new phones? >> No, I mean it's a it's it's it I mean we have an existing phone system. Yes. >> That's the bill. We're not buying phones. That's like your service >> to maintain the phones. Okay. >> I said the same thing. I was like, wait a minute. But we just That's just for phone service or whatever. >> So just >> the custodian. I know we talked about it. room >> as we talk about um teacher >> the classroom teachers class sizes >> wants to go to anything >> the impacts to the schools this year won't be as

172impactful if we if we reduce a teacher a classroom teacher it's next year that teacher is eventually going to have to come Yes, likely the following year, >> right? I mean, it does impact class sizes. It does create larger class sizes in one whatever section we're looking at, >> but it's fulfills a contractual obligation. Um, but it's something that we're going to have to fill next year. So, again, eliminating it now, we're going to have to bring it back later. >> So, what about Chromebooks on page 52? That's 21,000. Can we then substitute it for the field trip lease? >> That's a contract. >> We did that. We just >> We are in that year two of the lease. >> Mhm. One, two, three, four. So just just as a comparison the the total town

173increase last year >> as far as percentage was roughly eight and change percent. I'm sorry. >> For the total town budget, >> the total town budget >> Yeah. But the total town budget increases about 8% I think last year, which was a big ass last year. And at this number, we're at 8.32% just for our portion of the budget. I can tell you the town side it's not going to be flat and it's not going to be a decrease. I don't know. I don't know what which means that 8.32 is going to be as far as a referendum is concerned is going to be higher than what it was last year. >> We also don't have to vote at all. We can have another meeting. meet every night this week. >> One of the conversations

174is you talk to people from the state. You might have a better compass >> and this is not due till I know it has to go to Paul's hands soon but >> next week >> but by what is it the charter it's not till the 15th of March. >> Oh no. >> But but that money >> our money dropped dead our number next Friday dropped dead and our pages dropped dead Monday after. So, and the number of pages that will have to be retoled are significant. >> We have this room reserved for Tuesday, >> but that puts >> everyone >> What will be different? >> And again, and that's the question. Will anything be different? >> I don't know any information. >> Will anything be different? >> Where did you >> Tuesday night? Other than

175Shane will be in the room. We hope somebody we all hope we all be here alive next Tuesday. Let's put it that way. >> She said the number the biggest number she's going to live with is the 377509. I mean, you all are like getting there. You're starting to, you know, if everybody puts their stake in the ground like anything more than this and I would vote no. Anything less than this and I would vote no. Maybe you start to hear what it's going to take to get yourselves a budget. Should we maybe take a five minute? >> We could call that a comfort break and a sanity break. >> Personal privilege. Motion to make a motion of personal privilege. >> Well, I don't know if it's personal privilege. A recess. Make a motion for

176a recess for 10 minutes. >> Nor is motioning a recess. Someone second. Joseph. Justin >> 10 minute recess >> time is 8:46. How long do you want to recess? >> 10 minutes. >> I need a second on that. >> Yeah, you had it. Joseph second. >> Oh, okay. Joe second. All right. All in favor of a 10. >> Thank you. >> We're going to just leave the cameras rolling and so just be aware the cameras are on. >> Um, how's your phone going for >> cuz I am at like 30%. if you would like to call me. >> You're at 8, so you're about to die. >> I do not have a charger, so Jonathan might have to call you or Frank. >> I will, but I have to take care of whatever, >> right?

177But if you die midway, then I have to know what we're going to do. We're going back in. Jane, >> we have confirmation. You >> Y there. >> Uh, can we make a motion to come back into session? >> I make a motion to come back into session from recess at 8:58 p.m. Do >> we have a second? Second in favor says >> no I'll say no >> it's because you like to be >> I like to say no >> all right 8 to1 Frank is the one to center >> um did you happen to know what time we'll get >> um recording >> when are we meeting Tuesday no >> we're not done >> we're just coming back from recess >> easy we I have a motion. >> Oh, wonderful. >> Jump the guard.

178Sorry. >> Oh, >> they're on. >> Test test test. >> Hello. >> Somebody's talking. >> You can hear it. >> Maybe if there's just a delay. >> You're fine on YouTube. Okay, checking. >> Perfect. >> Appreciate it. Sorry. >> Honor. >> So, we So, we're back from recess. We have a motion >> amended motion on the table to approve the budget. >> Um, at 25,990, $482. Um, and we had a we had a second. >> Joseph and Frank. >> Um, we are still in discussion mode for this amended motion. Um, in that 10-minute recess, does anyone have any bright ideas that they came across? >> I mean, I'm just Let's Can we revisit that? Uh um constructional supplies page 71. I mean it's 57,000. We can't take all of it. >> But what does that

179buy us back? >> Not much, but we got to we got to count pennies to get to the big dollar. I I would recommend that because those are small things that are not going to move a needle that uh I'm going to say we defeat this amended motion and um we move to eliminate the new positions, the one para, the one parah, the lunch monitor, the custodian, the one special ed teacher, and the BCBA. >> New positions. >> Making a motion to amend the amended. Um just discussing just discussing um >> Okay. All right. >> Just discussing. >> So >> what you're discussing is to cut the uh page what >> to >> 2077. So >> cutting only the 377509 >> plus the 41,000 of adjustments because >> 41,000 >> means we're increasing >> Matthew

180budget page 20 for one second please. Right. >> So, to put it in better terms, >> right now the amended proposed budget is a $519,000. >> Let me question. >> Hold on. Let me just get this up. A $519,000 uh decrease from the original proposed budget of the 26. What do you say? Sorry. >> The current amended >> motion of the 25990482 >> removes $560,000 from the original proposed budget >> leaving an increase of 1.996617. >> Correct. >> Um and an 8.32 increase. That's the motion currently on the table. >> Correct. Nora is >> discussing an amendment to this amendment. >> No, I'm not discussing amendment to the amendment. I'm just suggesting that as a board we vote no for the amended amendment to um I would offer a another amendment to the main motion

181which is to cut new positions only new positions >> in classroom teachers SSOs >> they stay >> preschool section preschool teacher. >> Yep. >> Existing staff stays. >> And that number >> sure do that. How am I going to do that? I'm gonna take all this out for a second, I guess. Cut. Just gonna throw it down here so that I have to type it again. Does that bring us back up? just get rid of those. Okay. So that matches. So then from here we're talking about um new just new and we want this number. Copy paste has to be negative because you want to remove that amount from the budget. It means the 41,000 or whatever that total is plus the 377 which is the new stuff. >> Um >> what? >> Well, the

182appropriated budget request would be that the 26131. Matthew, can you go back to the spreadsheet? I'm sorry. Have it on the screen. It's good. Nobody had to watch all my fussing. Um, that would be the amount of the appropriate budget request. That would be the amount of the increase. That would be the percent of the increase, the 891. The total decrease to the budget. Does that look right? Yes. >> Yes. >> Would be 418 589. >> All right. So, let's read this out. So, >> This is just discussion. U decreasing the original by 418,589 which doesn't eliminate any current positions. It just eliminates >> any proposed new positions. >> Um so it reduces the proposed budget down to 26 million which would be an increase of to 2,138,18 at a percentage of 8.91%. I have

183a question about the gifted and talented the stipen proposal which is really saving the district money the 6,000 >> could champs pick up any of that it's not allowed >> first of all is after school >> to do gifted after school requiring kids to stay plus our champs grant was reduced by I want to say like $45,000 or something >> so >> okay >> we're struggling to even offer what we usually offerm M okay. Well, >> all right. Um >> I put the 6,000 back into that. >> Well, and I think my understanding is if you cut that amount and I hear the spirit of what you want to do, I'm still going to try and >> you can figure it out. >> Offer you a >> variation figure out six grand as opposed to

184>> a couple hundred thousand, >> right? >> Um yeah. So I think I think everyone on the board is in agreement. Gifted and talented is important. >> Yeah. >> Correct. >> So we can handle the six finding somewhere the sixth grant in that budget to get that to those kids. >> As long as there's enough remaining supports in the budget that the teachers have the wherewithal to take a stipen during their planning period and run. >> I mean we have correct. I mean it would you're right. It would require the parent or the teachers and if we have highly qualified teachers that could do it. It's just a willingness >> to do that >> or or an energy to do that. >> Um >> so but yes I'd say that that's out of all the

185new stuff that that can we can figure out a way to keep that in there. >> Um >> well we have an amendment on the table. We have an amendment on the table with the new amount. Do we want to take a vote of that amended amount or do we have >> is there actually a motion to >> Well, no, it was just conversation so far, right? >> Who who made the amendment? >> Uh, Joseph. >> I made the original. >> Yep. And Joseph, >> Joseph, do you want to withdraw your amendment >> or do you want to keep it? >> It's up to you. >> What would that do for voting purposes? >> Really? >> We don't vote on your cut, >> your proposed cut. >> We don't We don't vote on >> the

186900. >> Guess I could, but I'll vote no on any increases. That's the only thing >> because my conversation was to eliminate new positions. >> But that just >> I mean it's still an increase. >> So the difference between the 519,000 that we are going to take out from your amended down to the 418. Right. So that's another 100, >> right? 100,000. >> Yeah. >> That we're looking to put back in. Um, are you looking? Are >> is it >> I say we just bring it. >> You can just call the vote. >> Yep. >> Call the vote on Joseph's amendment. >> Joseph's amendment. >> Which is uh Matthew, you're >> Okay. Okay. So, if we're going back to vote that, let me put that back the numbers. Right. >> Right. >> Uh, delete. Let

187me give me 30 seconds. >> Back arrow. >> Insert rows. Bring this pile back in. >> What's it back? the wrong edit insert rows. Sorry. Did that work? And now to drag this down. Does that look like the number of the motion? >> Yep. >> Okay. So, let me drag these down. Let me drag these down. Let me unbold beforehand. Okay. >> Okay. So, we have a motion on the table >> for 25,990,482,000 um with an increase of 1,996,617. Um I'm going to call this motion to a vote. Everybody clear on what they're voting on? >> Yes. >> The amended motion to reduce the budget by 560,8. That's the decrease from what was proposed. >> Okay. >> You'd be voting on $259482. >> Y want to vote. >> This has to be a voice vote.

188So you say your name >> and your vote. Um yay or nay. Uh because Shane is on the phone, we have to do it as a voice vote. >> Okay. So, >> Joseph, go ahead. >> Um, yes. >> So, Joseph say >> Joseph Santoro. Yes. >> Okay. Shane. >> Shane, you there. Shane. Oh, Jesus. >> That is. >> All right. Well, see if we can get Shane. Christine. >> Um, Chrissy Rylander. Nay. Okay. >> Frank Oliver. Nay. >> Jonathan Moore. A. >> Okay, Nora, I'm going to pass it to you. >> Nora Mccursky, no. >> Eleanor Bishop, no. >> Carolak, no. >> Uh, Kurt Warner, no. >> Shane, are you there? >> Yes. Hold on. Yes. Sorry, I'm in my car. So, um, >> did you hear all that? >> Shane, I I did. It's

189uh 1.9 1.9 million, right? >> Increase. Yes. >> Yeah. Increase. >> Correct. Yes. Increase with a uh budget cut of 500 plus thousand. >> Yes. >> Um my vote is no. >> Okay. So, we have >> motion the amendment failed. >> Amendment failed. >> Still on the table. >> Okay. >> Now, the main motion still there. >> Main motion is still on the table >> or anyone else can offer an amendment to the main motion, >> which is why it's called the full budget. >> The main motion is the full budget. So the main motion that's still on the table is to approve a budget at 26,59,482. >> Okay, we ready? >> I make an amendment to the main motion. Okay. >> Well, can we have yours? >> She's amending the main motion. >> She

190So, just as Joe amended the main motion, now that that failed, she's making amendment. >> What is your amendment? I make a motion to cut the proposed budget by 418, 509. >> Is that >> all right? So, let's do the math. So what that looks like is page 20age. >> 377509. >> You said 41,000. >> Um the let me take that out a second. It's 4180 actually. >> So 41 All right. So, let me change the exact >> number. Y >> the other number is 377 509. Yeah, >> we are seeing different numbers. So, let's see. What did we do different? >> 41 08. >> Original. >> Oh, you know what? The 41080 is already off. I'm taking it off two times. That's my mistake. I'm sorry. >> 2650, but I'm 482, right? Minus 377509.

191I'm sorry. I forgot that's already on the spreadsheet. 26131973. I agree. So, Nora, if that's your motion, >> is that your number? >> Right. the if you're taking out the new stuff as well as just the adjustments, then you're making an amendment to approve a budget of 26131 >> 131 973 973 >> That total >> 26131 >> which represents a cut of $418,000 589 9. >> No, >> I have a different number. What's the main motion? It's 26 >> 26 million 59 >> 509 482. Right. >> Right.US >> minus 418 589. >> No, the total >> total decrease to the budget is 418 589. >> Yes. >> 377 plus the 41 >> 080. Yeah, >> correct. >> So we would be reducing the proposed budget by 418 589 >> for an appropriated budget of 26131

192973. >> Okay. I'm starting with a different number than you're starting with. >> I think that 41 >> I'm starting >> is really complicated. Okay. So then I change my motion, my amended motion um to cut the budget by 377509 >> and not take advantage of the 41,000. >> Hold on. The 41,000 is already factored into this >> less the adjustments we discussed. >> Are you correct making a motion to reduce that one or are you just saying what your numbers are? We're all >> I'm saying my numbers are right. >> Right. So you're saying off this number she's looking to reduce 377,509. >> Correct. >> Which is a total reduction to the proposed budget of $418,589. >> Y that's it. >> Yes. because it's the 377 plus the 41 gets you the 418 589.

193That's how much down the >> I understand that you're working off of after that number came out, right? >> So right here minus another 377. Both roads get you to the 131 number. >> It's just a function of >> would we then add in the gifted and talented again? >> Well, >> or >> it'll it'll get It'll get figured out. >> Okay. >> Um it'll get washed. >> I I hear your unanimous enthusiasm to make sure that that stays. I we'll find way. >> Okay. >> So, there's an amended uh proposal on the table. Um >> a second. >> Well, let's let's get the amended portion out >> before we get a second. So >> my amendment is to cut the budget by $418,589. >> I don't think we ever got there. >> That was

194one of the pieces >> the other night, but >> we might have discussed getting rid of the new positions. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So that's 2018. Is your motion? >> That's my amended motion. I just need a second. >> So the the total appropriated budgeted request for that is 26 million131,973 which would to would be a total increase of 2 million138 or $138,18. So that is the new amended proposal on the table. Do we have a second? So we could discuss it. >> Second. >> We have a second. All right, let's discuss it. So now we went from so so the difference Joe's amendment and Nora's amendment is >> about $100,000 difference. >> Take a vote on it now. >> Well, if you don't want to discuss it, >> I mean, we discussed every other

195number. I mean, >> right. >> So, we have we've we started with we have three different numbers right now. Well, the latest number is the number we vote on, right? >> Absolutely. >> Right. The middle one is gone. >> The middle one is gone. >> No, the first one, >> but the difference between the middle is $140,000 >> 141,000 between amended and >> um I just want to say that we keep the field trips in there, which is very important for extracurriculars. We keep the SSOs in there, which is very important to the community and to our parents to make sure kids are happy and safe. Um, it keeps existing staff in there, which I think is very important for continuity of program and delivery. Um, and and I understand and I respect and I

196totally get the needs for the new staffing. I don't want to diminish any of that. I know that's essential. Um, but we we have to make some tough decisions here. really have a hard time with the not having the new BCBA, but that would be an addition. Frank, were you >> I'm not going to say anything. I'm ready. >> I think I think we're all out of discussion. Yes. Would everyone agree on that? >> Yes. >> You You could vote mine. No. And Yeah, I don't I don't think there's any more. >> We're not saying yes or no vote. That's all I'm saying. >> We're all out of discussion. >> I don't think we need to really discuss this amended portion. >> That's awesome. >> So, let's bring it to a vote. Um, Nora, can

197you give us the numbers again that we're Well, I I can. The new amended uh proposal is uh 26,131,973 with an increase of $2,138,18. We'll do a voice vote. >> Uh, Joseph Santoro, no. Okay, >> Shane, you're up. >> Shane Sella, no. >> Chrissy Rylander, yes. >> Frank Oliveri, no. >> Jonathan Mohart, no. >> McCarthy, yes. >> Eleanor Bishop, yes. >> Carol Kak, no. Okay. So, we currently have to >> I know we're currently at a four to four standill. >> I have five. >> Five to three. >> I have five nos. >> Okay. >> Three yeses. >> Five nos. Three yeses. Um >> so the amendment is whether you >> Yeah, >> you probably should vote. >> I will vote just in case. Um I would I would >> you can abstain >> what's

198other it >> um I will vote no on this as well. >> Motion fails. So before any other amended motions come forward, do we have the energy tonight to continue this >> or is that what we sent to the uh town? >> What's that? >> I say is that the number we sent to the town >> until we have a approval of >> Oh, so we have to vote on the main motion. >> Correct. because he amended. >> Do we have any other amendments? Any other suggestions? I'm guessing we're all out of suggestions at this point. >> So, >> got to keep at it. >> We can >> indicate what it would take to get to yes because at some point you have to do >> How do you get to Yes. >> What do

199you mean? >> What's the number that will get us to a yes? Frank, I know you're going to vote no. >> No, no, no, no. What I'm saying I thought No, I'm not. No, no, no. What I'm saying is we voted the way we voted. Doesn't that get passed on to the town manager? >> The board has to approve a budget to go to the town manager. >> You need a yes vote on something. >> So, the motion that's still on the table is the original motion. Um, >> would the BCBA be the factor keeping it in >> for what? >> Yes. Votes >> otherwise? >> No, I don't I >> Or do we do we move the vote on the main motion >> which is no cuts, no changes? We I would I would

200recommend that we need to come up to with a number that's comfortable that we know we can get. So >> the cuts that we have proposed >> y >> so far was um to the amended to the original proposal was 5 18. >> Anybody want to offer another amendment? Those that say no other than to throw out an arbitrary the whole thing at this point. That's some rationale. >> How do we How do we Wait a minute. Explain to me. We have When you say a yes vote, that means 54 or 44. >> All we have to to get to something to give to the town manager, it has to come to at least a five to four consensus of yes. >> So, how do we get there? >> I have no idea. I didn't

201think >> so. It failed with a $418,000 cut and it failed with a $560,000 cut. If you voted no to those, maybe you want to talk about July too low, >> right? >> To sort of begin to figure out how you're going to find something you can five of you agree to. >> Understand that whole board has to adopt a budget request to belong to the town. If I guess if you didn't vote on one, my request would go on as budget, I guess. But >> should we go around the table to have a conversation about what is it that you would want to see? >> We do have a motion on the table, the main motion. So, we're still in discussion. I want a budget that with the town I could afford, >> which

202might be no increase. Go back to the TW. I can't see why we can't live with $24 million. >> Joe, >> I mean, I'm right now we're at the precipice. We have nowhere to go. We're on a cliff. >> If we go off, meaning raise the budget, we're going to essentially bankrupt half of our town. I mean, pe a lot of people can't even afford an extra $100 a month. and that'll force them to leave town and then it's there's nothing we can do. So there's really no way we can increase without finding a viable solution besides doing the same thing over and over again, which is >> think what do you think the solution should be? Like >> honestly, we should look into partnering with Gilbert and following what Matt has said. >> Well,

203that's not going to help us tonight, though. I mean, yes, that's ongoing. might because if they could come back and say with the >> we're not Yeah, but the town has been dealing with that for years and years and years. It's an ongoing thing. There's negotiations. >> Maybe we should break the cycle and do something about >> Exactly. Why don't we have both boards come together, both head of school, Susie and >> But right now, we need to figure this out. >> Well, I'll vote for 0% increase >> if that's going to push the needle. 0% increase. That's but that's going to do the exact same thing you said about taxes. It's going to push a ton of families out of town. >> I don't even think we could open the doors to the schools.

204>> It's going to reduce all of our home values. So, there's going to be less tax income coming in. >> It's other than throwing >> and you guys see this paper. It's really eye opening. You have New Hartford with 437 kids. This is a K through six. >> Well, you you were supposed to pass it down to us. >> Well, I didn't know if you wanted. So >> those numbers make sense. >> They're the teachers are 49. The test scores are 74.6 and this is 437 kids. >> Different problem. >> And why can't we do it? >> For one thing, >> a different problem. >> But I appreciate she did this because these are our surrounding communities. >> You're not pulling tuck which is 45 minutes away. Believe me, I drive it all the time.

205>> It's 45 minutes away. >> The reason we pulled those is No, you didn't pull those. This that woman did. >> No, no. The reason that Julie pulled her numbers was because it fits the same population as well as the same social economic status. Okay, that plays a huge part. >> Doing something right and we're doing something wrong is the point. >> What they're doing right is they're valuing education. That's what they're doing right. >> They're doing it for less than we are. Um >> okay let's if we if you wouldn't mind >> we can't go here in this conversation tonight about looking at different communities >> but you asked my opinion I guess >> okay >> but what is it for this this current budget to get to >> what's the number >> what

206are you all thinking >> zero zero increase >> what's a what's a realistic number I'm realistic. >> Zero increase is a cut to the budget at $2.5 million. >> What will it take to keep the doors open for this year? Yes, we might put our students at a disadvantage, but it gives us a time in the year >> where the board of ed >> Can I remind you that that $2.5 million increase >> that's000 of that is >> we put the kids first. So, >> correct. And that could rectify that $9.8 million if we figure out but it doesn't come off the board of us side talk okay everyone has their time to talk there's no side discussions okay let's keep it civil >> the if I can just draw you to the screen Matthew

207I don't know if you can you zoom in just a little bit on that bottom part of the chart for a second so the increase well actually at the top for a second the increase in the budget the 2.5 the numbers across the top 96,000 of that support the K6 program 856 of that support the Gilbert tuition and the staff at Gilbert and the out of district number is there as well so if we were to cut the whole 2.5 there's essentially no change we can make to the 793 out of district piece and no change we can make to the 856,000 So, the Winchester public schools would be operating with $1.6 million less than we're operating with currently, just us. We have no way to impact the other two columns to cut $1.6 million.

208We legitimately couldn't open the doors. Your class sizes would be 40 and then it would start doubling down on the cost of the teachers. It would cost more >> and fire marshall. >> Yes, we can't put 40 kids in a room. He visited. That's we probably go to about 30 if we thought that was a good idea. Um you voted yes 101 15 minutes ago on a 560,000 reduction. Yes. >> Correct. >> That was your motion. >> Correct. >> So would it be safe to say that's kind of your stake in the ground? You would vote yes at that. Correct. >> I already said what my stake in the ground is. >> Yeah. My stake in the ground that I would not know. Oh, yes. >> Jonathan, do you have any thoughts? >> Yeah. >>

209Speak to you. When I first came in, I uh I thought to myself, you know, I'm as with past meetings, I've always been open to learning more about uh this particular budget, fiscal year 27, and uh I wasn't really ready for a vote, and after hearing all of us talk, there still is a fair amount of gridlock. I'm honestly not ready for a vote tonight. That's my that's my uncensored opinion. What can change from now until I guess next Tuesday that you that will prepare you for a vote? >> Well, I'm going to be honest. Uh we talked about the 1.6 how bad that would be and uh we compared it to the original uh you know unedited budget and there's a lot to drink in about that. And uh I think it's a lot

210to consider. I'm not sure. If we're not going to finish tonight, why don't you give me a number and I will bring you a scenario. I will not use the word Gilbert in my scenario anywhere. It will be what is the impact to the Winchester public schools to take that cut fully within ourselves and show you what it looks like. >> Question. You mentioned that the Gilbert tuition is part of the increase. >> Yeah. >> Gilbert money. The Gilbert tuition part of the main base, >> but it went up. >> Yeah. So, Gilbert budget increase from last year that we're just talking about >> the increases. >> Yeah. We're just talking about >> which we have no control over now, right? Um and we have no control. >> We voted on it. I mean, >>

211right. But we now we have no control over and we have no control over the out of district budget. Right. So, the only thing that we can't control is that first column, >> I guess. >> So, um I'm going to point us back perhaps. >> Since we're seemingly at an impass, let's go back to the four options that Julie had proposed for us to give us a sense of what these cuts look like to get us grounded in programmatic conversations. Um, you know, giving you a guesstimate, if you will, and and remember, nothing is in stone until the voter votes on it. So, this is just the beginning, everyone. It needs to go through a lot of hands. So, we're already talking about, you know, the new cuts would the new positions would be 418.

212Okay. But then to massage new cuts to make it not so impactful. Julie presented option two. >> That's quite impactful, right? >> Thresholds that were asked for. >> Yeah. Yep. These are thresholds. So you're getting a sense of just visit it maybe as a conversation. >> So we're we're kind of close to scenario two at this point. Yeah, >> it would be >> picked and choosed a little bit differently, but >> and in fact once we have a number I'm going to try to mitigate >> the impact, >> you know, if there's a way to fight to keep the BCBA and you know, I think I'm listening closely to what the board's priorities are so that once there's a number, I'm going to try to honor those even if the number suggest. >> Did we

213discuss the principal issue because wasn't one leaving? And we were talking about not replacing >> is that in that decrease that you've been putting up there. >> That's third option number three. >> Excuse me. No, no, I know. But I but we that we discussed that on Tuesday and I thought that that was part of it because the number I walked away with >> on Tuesday was 1.8. >> That's the number I walked away with >> on on like it was 1.74 >> remaining. Yeah. Right. Right. >> Of the increase. Yeah. >> Right. But we haven't even gotten there >> tonight. Well, we're >> we the closest we got there was that number plus the BCBA, >> right? >> So that was a one nine. >> That was Joe. That was Joe's amended amount minus

214the BCBA. So that included the BCBA. >> We go back to the 1.8 that we discussed Tuesday night. motion. That's what >> 25 million. >> Not everybody agreed to it, but that's what the bottom number was on Tuesday night. >> The bottom number was one $11,874,617. >> All right. >> That was the bottom that was the >> Let me show >> That's the total increase. >> That's the number I have in my notes. >> The total increase. >> Sorry. >> That we discussed the other night. So that would include the BCBA removing the BCA BA from that number. >> Joe's Joe's amended included the BCBA in it. >> So now if I make a motion go back to the number of 1.8 as the total increase. >> So we have an amended amount. Yep. So,

215we have an amended >> that number that we discussed on Tuesday night. >> That was >> Let me get the full number. You got the phone number 25. >> I'm not saying it was acceptable. I said it was the lowest number. >> Right. >> That is where you'd be if you put the BC. So, the number matches >> what we talked about the other night when BCBA >> that we walked away from, right? >> Right. So >> and somewhere earlier tonight we talked about putting >> you would like to make an amendment to the original proposal and the amended amount would be 25 million which is a total increase of 1 million874,617 >> which is a reduction from the original budget of 682,000 >> and hopefully I'll give you a resulting increase. >> Sorry, I

216couldn't hear what that was. So that's >> I'll repeat it in a second. Shane, I'll repeat it in a second. Give me one second. >> So we have an I'm assuming we have an amended >> proposal. So M make is Frank is making amended proposal of 25 million868,482 which is a total increase of 1 million or yeah 1,874,617 >> which reflects a difference of a cut of how much from the ask increase >> 682 682 >> Okay, >> so it's a difference of $682,80 from the original proposed budget. I'll ask for discussion. I don't think >> at this point we have Okay. Do we have a second for the amended? >> Does anyone like to second? >> I like a second. >> Okay, Joseph second. All right, we can discuss this or we can just

217vote on this right now. So the reduction of 682 682,000 would mean that depending upon where you move your money, it's all in the new positions plus >> SSOs plus regular ed teacher plus >> More classroom teachers beyond that one that we've already looked at plus >> probably field trips plus >> Oh, here it's on the screen. All that stuff with the BCBA back in >> with the BCBA back in. No, no, that would be >> back in as a cut, right? Sorry. All right. All those items would be cut. >> One, two, three teachers, one general ed, one special ed, and one preschool. Two paras, the lunch monitors, the custodian, the SSOs, the BT, the field trips, and the BCBA. >> And the net difference for the principal. I thought we discussed that >>

218there's there's no >> no principal on the table. If we were >> that wasn't that wasn't a part of this. We talked about it and you said that you could operate with one principle, but we had to pay more. >> Definitely didn't say that. >> But you had to pay more. >> I'm not in any way saying we can or should do that. If we did that, it would be against my recommendation and it would save us roughly $120,000 because it's an open position that we wouldn't fill, but then we would pay the existing principal per her contract 30,000 more. >> Okay. What's the net? What's the net deduction? 120. >> So, this would be we're in discussion on the We have an amendment that's been seconded. >> Um, so this would be a reduction

219of a principle in a building. >> No, not this amended. >> No, no, not the way that's written, but the what Carol's talking about. >> Is that right, Carol? >> Yep. So two buildings would have one principal. >> Yeah. >> Which means at all times one of the buildings would have only one administrator in the building. >> Right. You would designate administrator. >> Now there would be an assistant principal if they stay. >> Um >> we we >> and a principal that goes between >> we struggled with not having an assistant principal at Pearson. We had two principles. We had one at Bachelor. We had one uh Hinsdale rather. Hinsdale. We had another at Pearson, two full-time principles, and we struggled with their ability to manage cases and issues and discipline and contact parents and

220deal with crises as they pop. So, we put in an assistant principal at Pearson to try to help with that. And I think we've got some stellar people in these positions to manage these issues. Um, you know, I know we're having discussion and it's not part of this amendment, but I would council against reducing a building principle, >> but you still have two assistant principles. >> I think it was proven last year if you have one administrator in the building. >> We had the news at our doors. >> Okay. But it's a job that somebody's retiring. You're not taking away from them. That's how I'm looking. >> We're not So you're not just replacing them. >> I I understand that. I'm saying it's a job that is there's too much put on it can't I'm

221saying too many things can fall through their cracks and that's not good for a school system. >> You're so you're your your discussion is one principal two assistant principles. >> Correct. >> Yeah. So just not just not >> just not replacing the >> not replacing the one that's retired. >> Um one of the things that principles do and administrators do generally is observe staff. >> They run PPTs. They also observe staff. So they need time to be able to follow the PDC agreement which is the teacher evaluation system on a timely basis with due process. So I think that's a critical job and I would hate to have us potentially miss the scheduled observations because of the concern of due process effectively giving teachers feedback to forward curriculum. Um they also an assistant principal the

222principal that would have to manage the two assistant principles would have a tremendous amount of legal responsibility that I don't know what principal would stay in the job especially in today's climate. >> How many kids do we have in each school? approximately 300 in each building, give or take a handful. >> Teachers and B and persons like behavioral therapists, they need help and support. They look to administrators. They know that the buttress with our parent community. And if we reduce an administrator, you're going to find teachers not feeling supported and they're going to leave. It is a difficult discipline. It's a difficult job. We have shortages in special ed nationally. We have shortages in social studies in the state of Connecticut for the first time ever. We have shortages in English teachers. And we lose

223an administrator. You're losing a buffer. Teachers will not feel supported and protected, if you will, for lack of a better way to say it. >> I I'm not comfortable. >> So So I agree and I' I've heard a lot of good points made tonight. I think one of the things that is maybe not lost but is not been mentioned I think enough while we have to look at the current budget and what will be passed for this coming school year um one of the things is kicking the can down the road has been used as an expression or you know dealing with what's in front of us right now. Um but looking forward and really seeing uh regardless of of the cuts made, how will we be able to sustain or uh come budget season

224next year, how we not going to and and I am with with saying this, I'm fully aware that the insurance increase is a major driver in this budget, but it is not the only piece or factor that got us to a $2.5 million increase. Um, and when we look forward, and we really need to look forward because that's always what a budget is really about. What are we doing to hedge ourselves in the future? and what are we doing? So, from an educational standpoint, um with two daughters of my own that um if I choose to stay in this town that will be going through this educational system, I would hope and for the rest of the kids in this town that are currently in the school system, I want for them the best education

225possible. But as has been stated, um, and I really, um, appreciated the BCBA coming in and speaking on behalf. Sounds like he has quite the workload and, um, the demands. But to the bigger statement, um, how how will we be able to continually sustain increases? because again I don't see things going down without a plan to kind of hedge our future and right now all we're talking about is ways to and again you have to deal with what's in front of you but without any plan for the future I haven't heard any vision towards how we're going to be able to sustain in the future and to me that's the bigger conversation that yes we can talk about passing a budget right now but what what happens come next year because last year there was

226an increase. This year there's a bigger increase um that's proposed and I just don't see that being sustainable um in the current structure. Right? So I again I implore outside of the box thinking and real answers that would provide us a sustainable approach for the future because right now this is not sustainable for the community that we live in because the current socioeconomic uh reality of our of our current community um will not be able to sustain that. And while we don't want to dissuade other families from coming in, we also want to make sure that we are not uh as has been said pushing out those that are currently in the community. Um and again, a lot of those don't have kids in the school system that are finding it being the biggest struggle.

227So, I I again, the last time we were in this meeting, and I'm sorry to be long-winded, um, but I've been listening all night, and I'm sorry that I'm not there in person. Um, but the last, uh, regular meeting that we were at, um, while it wasn't a good option, it was the only option. Um, and I don't mean to bring this up, but a substantial decrease in our proposed budget is what we need to look at. So what are those outside of the box slash things that we can do besides just cutting teachers? How can we bring revenue to the district? How can we do something that is other than because right now I'm just speaking for myself again and I stated it at our last regular meeting. I personally will not vote on

228a budget and again none of these options are good. Um but we haven't presented or come up with something that is a better viable option. Um, so again, I I will not vote for uh a passing of the budget, not because I don't vote for our kids, but because I don't think that this is a sustainable path that we're on. >> So Shane, what are you saying that a no increase for this year then? >> Well, we have to take some increase because with the insurance increases, that's a $900,000 or I believe it's 1.2 if I'm not mistaken, but uh sorry if my numbers are incorrect. Um that is a something that you right we could not plan for unfortunately because of the validity of that but again I will I I I personally won't

229vote on passing any budget that we've had proposed because none of it is sustainable for our future. Um and and so that's just where I stand. I just had to share my piece because again we're talking about trying to find solutions. But again and I'm sorry that I didn't bring one myself. I'm not an educator. I'm not in this business, but I am um I am passionate about wanting to have our kids have uh a bright future, but we also have to look at what is sustainable for our community. Um and I don't think on the current trajectory we're providing answers that are sustainable. >> Thank you. >> So, you're abstaining from from motions? >> Are you abstaining from motions? >> No. No, >> he's not abstaining. No, >> he will vote. >> Yes. Yes.

230>> Well, as far as out of the box, I mean, that brings us back to the seventh grade plan. >> Uh, you know, >> but legally, can we do that with >> being it's literally in >> I think that was not a fully formed, uh, option. Um, and I think it did more damage than uh, you know, and we we still have not fully explored that, but that seemed to do more damage um, in trying to have a collaborative relationship with Gilbert um, because they are currently designated high school. So again, um, it was an idea and all ideas have to be sought out. But, uh, when we look at the possibility of that, but what other what other potentials are there? because we do have to look at something that is sustainable for our

231future and it doesn't seem like this is very sustainable. >> But isn't high school 9th through uh 9th through 12th grade? Isn't that high school? >> It says middle school and middle school, >> but theou is >> middle school and high school. >> Let me uh Could I ask a question because I'm done with Gilbert tuition? What is the new increase now for Gilbert? the increase >> the Gilbert increase >> of just the tuition number or the amount that it's going up between tuition and the staff who works there and there >> yeah the whole >> 856300 >> I think if we're looking >> well no can just no because you're not going to change the staff >> and you can't change the >> tuition so 856 >> so 856300 I would call that an

232uncontrollable cost. So if we if you say >> but that's part of the two the 2 million increases, >> right? Yes. >> Okay. And then the insurance was how much again? >> Ours 500,000 >> and there's one. >> So that's that's so that's one point >> three >> that's 1.3 million. That's >> of the 2.7 >> of the 2.5 >> plus out of district. >> There's 800,000 in the out of district tuition and transportation that >> increase. There's I have no if whatever size cut you take I can't reduce the >> How much is that? I'm sorry. >> 800,000 793 to be exact. 794. >> Okay. So that's country. >> So the increase that's on our side is 900,000 of which 500,000 right off the top is the health insurance. So I mean that'll go

233down a little if we remove a lot of humans. it will go down millions, but as a person who works here is less insurance. So, one of the things that I've heard floated around, but again, I can't speak to the validity of it, nor do I know what would it would actually take, but I've heard uh it mentioned and uh again, uh I can't speak to it because I'm not the professional that could speak to how it could be executed, but when we talk about being a public school system, we um are not a revenue driving uh right, we do not make income that comes back typically. Um, one of the things and again uh speaking out of my professional place, but uh special education is one of the largest drivers in our budget and

234if it's been mentioned tonight, I apologize. Um, but that is one of the uh largest costs to our district is the special education. Um, how have we, if we haven't already, how have we explored the possibility. And again, there is a lot to this and I understand it is not a simple solution, but there is a lot to passing um a very increased budget as well. So, while we're looking at all viable options, what does it look like to um and I understand there are options within uh choosing where the families go for their special education. Um so, if they go out of district, that is by choice if I'm not mistaken. Um, but how do we keep how how do we offer a program or offer something? Is this a possibility that brings those

235students that are out of district to want to come back? And now I understand that may not be um in some of the cases it may not be possible because of the needs of that student. Um but what has been the exploration towards that or again in a collaborative effort uh have we implored Gilbert to do the same and uh what are the possible options because again even if we're talking about an increase this increase is going to keep coming. I understand we may not have the same increase of insurance but the needs that we have as far as teachers teacher salaries that's going to continue to go up but we have no answer to that. Um, but if we were to devise or develop a program that is able to attract others outside of

236our district and to bring in income into our district, um, I know in other districts that is a possibility. I'm sure it's not super common, but again, at the size district that we are, we should have a little bit more mobility than others because we're not a massive uh district. We are a smaller district. Um, so it should give us more choice in being able to pivot or change more quickly. And again, I apologize if this is coming from a place of not having knowledge, but um, I've heard this uh, floated to me and I don't know the validity or reality of that situation. But in my mind, we haven't fully explored all options. And again, if I'm wrong, I will fully >> I'm going to stop you there, Shane. Um it it has been

237discussed tonight um as we talked about future um you know things that we can do down the road that will help us in the future to mitigate these issues with the budget. Um we uh Kathy Gableson is meeting with a company tomorrow uh to explore building a program uh that would originally it would be outsourced at first. um and for maybe a while. Um so we have explored that. um it's not going to help us today, but it's something that we we are going to as a board explore. And as I as I talk to the board also, we as a board once we get past this budget, we're going to have to come up with ideas uh along those lines uh for the future so we don't run into these problems year after year.

238So we have discussed that tonight. >> Thank you. Sorry. Sorry. >> No worries. No worries. Sorry. No. Sorry. >> Go up with your wish. >> Anybody else want to add? >> We have the main motion. Do we have an amended? We have an amended motion on the floor made by Frank, seconded by Joseph to reduce the budget by 682,000 which was essentially all the other things plus the BCBA for 1.8 increase. That's 7.81%. So either you vote on that or withdrawn. >> Okay. So Shane, do you have anything other to add at this point? No. >> Does anyone else have anything to add at this point? >> So, we have a amended motion on the table right now uh for a proposed budget of I'm assuming that's what we're looking at. >> Yes. >> 25,868,482

239for a total increase of 1,874,617. That's just to keep our doors open pretty much. >> I will say this, if we vote on this and it goes to selectman, if anything comes back, we don't really have much room. >> Okay, >> if any >> So that would mean the cut would be 682,000, >> correct? Would you be inclusive of Julie the stuff on the board? >> Unless I'm find find ways to mitigate those with other swap out >> choices. You know, if I can figure out something so we don't have to take the field trips from the kids, I would really fight to do that. >> Um, >> two SSOs are in there. >> Yep. >> PCBA is in there. >> Yep. >> Okay. I mean, we're okay, >> we're scraping the bottom. >> Positions

240support us similarly, but in different ways. I might look at trying to figure out how to save the BCBA and give up a different student support. >> But the only way to put any of these things back is to take something different out. So >> the only comment I have is these cuts do not support our students and staff in our schools. One thing I will point out, people are feeling very conflicted. I know because we want to support the children and Joseph, you talked about wanting to support their families. One thing I would point out is that our employees are their families. We have almost 50% of our employees live in Winchester. So, it's hitting in a lot of different ways. >> I I I fear the message that we're sending tonight to the

241staff is is going to be impactful. Tomorrow there's going to be a lot of questions coming at the administration, >> the letters of recommendation. >> So everything we've done here tonight um is going to have an impact regardless of what we do. Um and it's going to negatively impact the mood and the the spirit of the staff. That's why, listen, if this was an easy decision, we would just be here not getting paid. But thankfully, we're getting paid and we're earning our money. >> What? You got an envelope. >> That was humor. >> You got an envelope. >> All our paychecks. >> You can't do sarcasm at 10 o'clock at night. No one. >> You can't say things like that. >> It's not It's not an easy thing for us to do right now. Um

242because we're we we have to keep kids at the forefront, but we have to keep everyone uh you know, I I I do want to discourage people to think that the product isn't good. The product is good. Our teachers are doing an amazing job with what they have. Can only imagine what they can when they're fully staffed and fully supported. >> So, you want vision. One of the things that we're talking about is a biggest part of this, one of the bigger pieces, not just insurance, but special ed costs. >> You've got a plan from Kathy moving forward in a hopeful and a way to keep kids inside our district because that's one of the biggest costs out of districts. And no, we don't have a choice. Kids are put out and out of district

243placements based on IEPs and reviews of IEPs, which we're in charge of preK through 12. The choice would be whether the parent if we build a program the parents would have the choice right >> to come back. >> It's not >> ones that have out of >> district decision. That's right. And then other groups other towns would come if we >> it could I mean if we build it all right that could be a revenue >> that's the revenue. >> Yeah that's revenue piece. >> So >> but then that would require us to build >> the reason >> build it out. The reason why I'm bringing that up is as uh Shane said, you know, looking forward building the program, continuing longer term vision. Um, I would think that we would need to consider keeping

244the SSOs because that was a direct response and um, I would reconsider keeping that BCA BCBA new position in um, so in other words, we have a motion on the table for 682,080 that includes those SSOs and BCBAS. Um, I I would advocate saying no to this amended motion and um reconsider another one >> or you can offer an amendment one more layer. >> Oh, I don't know want to do that. It might confuse everybody. >> Yep. >> At this point, >> so there is a motion on the floor >> because I envision SSOs as a part of moving forward bringing families into our community uh where their kids feel safe in the buildings. BCBA, as we were talking about, they got a case load of 30 can help mitigate some of the issues and

245the concerns. Keeping the staff supported, moving forward, helping with behaviors in the long term, keeping families with us as a community, the communication with the families going. >> I think that would be wise. Okay, I move the question on the amend amended motion. >> This is Frank's, right? >> I believe so. >> So Frank's amended motion right now is a budget of 25 million868,482 with increase of 1,874,617 with a total what are we saying? Are we calling that >> increase is 7.81 and it's a $682,000 reduction >> reduction from the original proposal. Um, if we were to well, we can either bring that prop amendment to a vote or there's a second amended motion on the table to bring back the two SSOs in the BCBA which would total um 221. 30,000 >> 121500 >>

246230 even >> there isn't actually a motion I don't think >> no there isn't >> there's an idea but there's an idea and there it would have to be seconded if we wanted to move forward with that um >> and I called the question >> the question >> to vote on Frank's amendment >> okay >> or does Kirk call anybody can call Everybody can make a motion to close discussion debate question. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, then I never mind. I So you could either >> I I would say let's vote on Frank's amended >> with Frank's amended budget of 25,86842 with a total increase of 1,874,617. >> So I'd like a >> second. No, we had a second. That's how we got >> Frank. Joseph seconded it. >> So, I'd like to call

247a vote on that proposed amount. >> Uh, voice vote. >> Joseph Santoro. Yes. >> Shane, no. >> Chrissy Rylander, no. >> Jonathan Mohart, no. Frank, we're voting. >> It's your motiv. Yes. >> Okay. Norah. >> Norah McCarthy. No. >> Elanor Bishop. No. >> Carl Kak. No. >> So that's five to three. >> Two. Three. Four. Five. Six to two. You have >> six to two. >> No. >> So six to two. No. >> How do you vote? >> Um I will vote no. >> Motion. That motion fails. >> Okay. >> So, we have the original proposed bud uh budget of $26,59,482. Um, do you want to >> Laura? >> Yep. I make an amended motion. See if I can get the numbers here. >> 682. Give me a moment. putting back the BCBA >> for

248you just by taking those two out. >> All right. >> Take out BCBA, take out >> SSOS. Okay. >> Moving the district forward. >> Okay. >> Um you're at a budget of 26,098482, which is an increase of 2,14. which is an 8.77 increase. It's a reduction to the original budget of $4528 >> and 80 452,80 >> 552 580 >> 450 >> 45280 >> 080 >> which Matthew I can't see that well enough to know are we >> we're on there. Yep. >> Okay, that's my motion. My amended motion. >> Nor is making an amended motion. >> Do we have a second? >> I'll second. >> Okay. Okay. >> So, it's look Oh, sorry. We second that. Okay. Discussion. Um, so it's essentially taking all of that off except for BCBA and the two SSOs. You

249see the blank spaces? >> Correct. All right. I don't believe there's probably any discussion on this. >> All right. Let's bring it to a vote. Joseph >> Joseph Santoro. No. >> Shelon. No. >> Chrissy Rylander. Yes. >> Frank Oliver, no. >> Jonathan Mohart, no. Warner, no. >> Nor McCarthy, yes. >> Elanor Bishop, no. >> Carol Kak, no. I got two yeses and five six seven no. >> Oh. Oh, I didn't write down. Jonathan was a no. >> So that motion fails. Seven. One, two, three, four, seven. >> Point of information. I mean, I don't know if we can do this, but I mean, I know we have some people in the audience. Would Would it we be allowed to give them an opportunity to speak get all or do we have to wait >> for

250public comment when we get there? >> Yeah, when we get there. >> Okay. >> Motion for a fivem minute recess. >> I second 10:14. >> All in favor? >> I five minute recess. Shane. I didn't take my pills for tomorrow morning. I didn't bring my pillows for tomorrow morning. Explain to me. Unless that's a convention I've never witnessed a boarding budget after I don't see any That's good. >> Thank you. Is he? >> Yeah, he'll be back. >> I'm sure. Which is why when I said it worried about Literally, >> you get a little release. >> Too much water in the first place. >> I'm teetering right now. whether I should try >> what are the odds this meeting ends tomorrow like >> we're done >> technically it would be the uh uh 26 and

251the 27th >> we're going to have to get >> that would be budget 26 27 >> it's funny >> have to get to a point where >> repeating ourselves here >> Tuesday And it's a process. We're just step one. >> But you see the cuts are so painful. >> You lost your cell phone. come back. >> Okay. Motion to come out of break at 10:21. >> I will second that motion. >> That's Nora and Joseph. >> Okay. >> All in favor of coming back. >> Whoever wants to explain to me I'm sorry. >> We the vote in favor of coming back over. I don't think >> Thank you. >> All right, we are back. >> Frank, what? >> Why can't we pass on the the vote, the budget to the town, which is what our

252duty is, even though we didn't pass it ourselves. I mean, we didn't give it a yes vote. >> Decision to pass it on is a yes vote, >> right? You have to vote. You can't skip that. >> No, no, no. I'm not saying skip a vote. I'm saying if it comes out, whatever it is, 54,58, whatever the number is, and then pass it on to them, >> which we did tonight twice, >> but we didn't pass it on. >> Is there any like a stalemate option like >> I mean, when you said we had a have it had to pass by a yes vote, >> right? So, we have a main motion on the table to pass the budget as it's been presented full. No cuts. >> This is Chrissy's motion. >> 41 whatever adjustment

25341,000 >> amendments to the original one. Frank, >> those are amendments. The only one that's still out there right now currently is the original. >> Okay. So now if we go around the table, it has to be passed by us at in other words >> majority of yes before it can be passed on to them. It's not by >> correct. >> That's our fiduciary responsibility as an agent of the state of Connecticut. >> We are not under the umbrella of the city. >> Okay. >> We are completely a separate entity to keep politics out of education. The state board of education created us. state legislature created us by law. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So, we have a motion on the table to approve a budget of 26,59,482, which is the superintendent's proposed budget less

254the adjustments we discussed during committee on Tuesday. Um, that is on the table. currently. Do we have any amendments or do we want to just vote again on the main budget or do we have other ideas, proposals? >> Well, Nora suggested that everyone go around and say and it kind of stopped it. Like Joseph said what his b I said what my bottom line was but it never really got around the table is >> said his >> I said mine too. >> So we have >> no what's yours? mine. >> Yeah. >> Um through my proposals, uh my last one, the the cut at 452,080, as I mentioned, sustains the program moving forward, hitting the vision concern that Shane has, keeping our BCB, pushing in a new BCBA to mitigate issues inside the classroom, changes

255the culture of the community in the buildings, keeping the SSOs because that was a pivotal change last year in the fall. Um and and and that's where I would sit because >> you won't move off that number. >> Well, I mean I also proposed cutting all new positions which was another $100,000 more. That too is voted down. So, you know, uh >> so we're just looking at the threshold here. >> Yeah. I'm um you know, I'm I'm I'm looking at in my mind keep one of the board goals we had. I want to go back to that was to sustain faculty to stop the turnover. So, um I think that it's important that we signal to the community as a board here that that's what we value because that's what we did as a group

256is come to those goals. And I think pushing forward a budget that best meets those goals is something we should give to the community to vote on to see where they stand as we've been elected by them. And I think it's our obligation here to signal to them this is what sustains us. This is what meets our kids needs. This is important to us to meet our board goals and let the board of selectmen give us guidance. But I think as a board, we signal to this community, we signal to our faculty, we signal to our administrators, this is where we're at. And I think that's an important value. And education is albeit a good percent of the budget, of course, and no one wants to take an increase, it is also an investment in

257the community. And I I think that that's an important message. I don't think it's responsible to go lower than the status quo budget. I think we would be doing the children, our town employees, our community a big disservice if uh we go backwards in that manner. We've worked as a district pretty hard to come back after receiverhip. I just worry about decimating this whole system >> completely and totally. And again, I mean, I I think our position here is to advocate for what is best for our school system. And you know, we were presented with a pretty bare bones budget, nothing superfluous. Um, I think that is that is what we need to put forward. So, anyway, I'm not I I don't think I'm able to vote on anything lower than the status quo from

258last year. That just doesn't it's not right. I think we should only increase not no new no new positions that we should only increase what the absolute lowest that we could which includes the insurance Gilbert the staff choir or special ed and that's it >> then we see what happens with the state and then next year we get through a year and see what the state's going to offer us because if they're giving us $2 million next year then we just have to get through this one year without bankrupting the town with the taxes. And I agree with Joe what he said, Mojo. Um that you're by increasing taxes, you're hurting families that have children. Um so I I agree with you. I think the the status quo I mean not the status quo that

259only the maximum that that we have on the increase that we have to pay. So we have to pay the increased insurance. We have to pay Gilbert. you have to pay the special ed whatever that increase cost is but that >> staff wages >> excuse me staff wages >> only the yes only the absolute bare minimum >> um and then we can relook at it next year or maybe we can come up with some really good idea because apparently you've been doing this for the last 15 years and it's the same stuff every year so let's start thinking outside the box and how we can fix this >> so that's >> that's the status quo >> there's Nothing. Every other area went down like we >> So that's all I'm saying. What you're saying is

260the status quo. >> No, I'm not voting for the status quo because that's that's going to kill people. No. >> So you're talking about Gilbert. Isn't the status quo just a 529,000? >> What did you So you got a $ 1.5 million increase last year. What was that spent on? >> Pardon me. Sorry. >> No, >> the status quo was a 307. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> So you got $ 1.5 million increase last year. What did that go to? Isn't it we we got >> it's not you >> there was you got a budget increase last year of $1.5 million. It's right in the numbers >> that was contractual obligations, special ed costs, transportation, >> um >> SSOs, >> insurance, salaries, >> we added the SSOS. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I'd be

261happy to send you last year's budget book that shows the analysis of what >> was in last year's increase. >> I I I mean I would I'm I'm not No, I will never vote for the status quo. It's not going to happen. So, I I feel like we've got to bring this budget down. And even at 1.8, I think that's a lot to ask again to the town. >> Well, as a parent and a taxpayer in town, um we have we live paycheck to paycheck in my house. At the end of the month, there's maybe, if we're lucky, a couple of extra hundred dollars in our bank account. Um, we live in a,200 square foot home in a working-class neighborhood in Winston. I feel like we very much are meet the average demographics for the

262city. >> Um, and I will say that I me I am more likely to leave town over a decimated school system. then and uh tax increases are not going to push me out of my home. We had to a couple of weeks ago we had to choose between weekly groceries and heating oil. Like we are not in a wonderful financial situation. I promise an increase in taxes would not push us out of our home. But a decimated school system absolutely will. >> I just want to our role here is not a board of finance. Okay. So our budget goes forward to the board of selectmen who act as a board of finance. And so it may not be a 2.5 increase to taxpayers depending upon what the town side does its own cuts if you

263will. >> That means they cut not the things we want to see the things they think are important but that might be important to us. >> The danger to that is if we go down to 1.8 And we truly believe that's the bare bones of it and they still ask us to cut. Where do we go? >> That's what I mean. They're going to make the decision. >> We always decide what it is. >> The board of finance. Sorry. >> They give us a number and then we >> all they technically have is one line. >> They'll have all of our backup data, but ultimately this board and I make those decisions of how to manage a code. That ain't I mean that ain't a great solution either. >> No, it's the same taxpayer. >>

264So, what's the number we want to present to this? What's the number do we want to present to the board of do we have this in our head tonight or do we have to push it to another night? Are we guaranteed to have a number by then? >> Well, let's go back. Let's go back to the basics. We talked about Gilbert, the insurance, and what was the other third one? >> Out of district >> tuition. >> And that was what? 793. >> The out of district. Yes. >> So that's nine 9 14. 20. So that's 2,149,000. That's >> if you take just the health insurance 5. Yep. Exactly. What Carol described was essentially a $2 million increase >> which we have no control over. >> Right. >> Status quo. >> So anything beyond that is

265is gravy. But we well >> discretionary that's in our budget. That's in our budget too. It's less than one half of 1%. I >> know. I'm just so >> Well, that's usually what happen. >> So it's the field trips. It's the >> But in the school budget basically you have 1% question is obligation otherwise you're cutting staff. >> I mean this with respect. Um, were you and Shane able to ask Gilbert if they were willing to tap into their reserve fund? >> So, they're already contributing $250,000 to this budget. >> They're already doing that. >> It's already insulated into their site. So there's the So that's the one thing we haven't discussed is the 660. >> What? >> So the 660 um account which is now 440. So we can all agree that's a 440

266account. Um, so we do have, don't look at me like that, Nancy. We do have money that we could put into this budget um that could offset some of these. >> I'm not willing to throw money at >> I would use that money to set up new programs or discuss new programs, what it would be to get new programs, but I wouldn't use it to pay down >> a recurring cost because this will just come back next year and we'll have nothing. I mean, if you want to use the money for something, test something and things like that that get us to a better place. >> Use emergency. >> Yeah. I mean, >> and not emergency, but to use get us to a better step, >> you know, in a in a program where we

267want to be rather than pay back it. >> Well, what constitutes an emergency, right? >> Yeah. Feels emergency. >> So, no, you don't want to know what that definition is in civil. >> You said we had it down to how much at some at one point? >> We had $1,800 in the emergency fund. because we took money out to cover the budget. >> Correct. But then how do we get that additional funds? >> That means that >> does the state allows us to hold on to under 2% of any monies we don't spend from year to year. >> Correct. But how did we recuperate you know 700,000 some odd dollars? Wasn't it from the co relief money that was a gift of God? >> The 660 thing. >> Correct. >> The state of Connecticut miscounted

268us. our population. >> Yeah. So, I mean, >> and so >> if we didn't get that, our emergency fund would essentially be zero. So, we shouldn't spend that money on recurring costs. Like Frank said, we build out a program that can generate money because like he said, like what it >> Yeah. Because the cliff will be there again. >> Yep. And like he said, >> whether you like it or not, >> building a program requires investment in that program. You can't just start with this. I mean, you you you got to have staff, you got to have resources, >> training. >> You start one classroom of the autism thing. I'm just spitballing ideas here. And you throw a a teacher, somebody in there. >> Well, she she already said most programs have a BCBA >>

269that control that has can have up to only three or four kids, >> right? >> Plus, um support staff to go with that program. So, >> I think it's normally onetoone support staff. The stinger in this is multiple years 8% increase. Whatever you got for the two and a half or $3 million last year for the increase. >> Yeah, I looked up the average uh increase on the school budget is 4 to 6%. >> No, no, I'm just saying that was >> Yeah. So, we're we're we keep on >> No, no. What I'm saying is what I thought the number was at the meetings we had with the town with the town with the public at the school auditorium was 21 million for the school budget last year. I was shocked when we got the

270book and we saw 239. >> Bear in mind that's not the bill to the taxpayer as you have been bringing up. You know the taxpayer bill is 16 million last year 1617 million. So we are talking big numbers here but that's not what goes to the taxpayer. >> One sec. >> Hold on. She'll bring us up. >> That's what confuses me because it's the same thing Miss Perez said three years ago. It was $14 million that went to the thing when it was a $19 million budget >> to um Carolyn Frank. what you're referencing the increase last year was 1.5 million >> 23 million >> and what you're seeing is that and I think there's actually a couple more years that just make it fit I think we've dropping off the previous years but all

271of those years of zero increases where we were actually in most of those years going backwards Gilbert was still having a typical normal school district increase 3% % 4% 2% and I have that somewhere else I could pull out. So we were actually at a zero going backwards backwards backwards for all those years. >> Yeah. But didn't you get money? Wasn't the underres and then we also got co money. So that was masking >> that was factored in masking. >> But that was masking the problem. So it wasn't didn't get any money extra money. >> But that that kept programs open and running and educating our kids. But you see this is not keeping up with inflation for almost 10 years. >> We've been at a death >> and ECS has been flat for 17

272inflation. We'd be at 27 million. >> All those years we've had a zero, right? And you said that it was masked by the, you know, co relief fund. Why was there no, you know, incremental increases to keep up with that? >> The voter >> votes and we propose and the board of selectman decides. So there's a multiple faceted process. >> So we can't blame passports because I'm not that I've paid attention to it. Then I'm sure past boards have tried to get increases. I I'm if the board that's their job is to build a a budget that can support the school community. Now, now >> is this what it means? >> The selectman could have sent it back or the referendum could have sent it back. >> There was a time. >> So, you see

273a 0% increase doesn't mean that our the board didn't try to increase. >> Right. >> Correct. >> So, let's not and that doesn't help us now. uh it helps the big picture to say, you know, this is what happens when you don't get these increases, right? >> You create a fiscal cliff because you're not inre keeping up with inflation. >> But we also have in keeping in mind taxpayers. So here we are, >> right? >> Yeah. In a time where everything else every everybody is being affected by inflation, >> cost of food. >> So everything Oh, that's okay. So, here we go. So, everybody's clear. Status quo to keep moving forward is 2.5 million increase over last year's cuts are >> I mean that's not status quo, but that's that's keep moving forward. >> That's

274right. That's right. >> And tonight is not the end of the story. The story never ends. >> It doesn't until the voter votes very >> um >> yeah. So this but again I t the board once we get through this to come up with viable solutions that can help us down the road. >> That means somehow bringing income into the community, >> correct? in some way or another or thinking out the box with options that we just can't see at this point. >> So, >> growing a grand list, it's a conversation with the board of selectmen. Growing a grand list, attracting businesses, yada yada, >> but we said it number number of weeks ago was we're in negative again with the grand list. >> Yeah, >> that's our >> so that ain't helping us. >>

275Okay. Under statute, we are required to give parents submit an itemized estimate of the funds needed for public schools. >> We would be failing to perform a statuto duty. This board doesn't budget. >> Sure. >> Bear in mind. Yeah. There's also an MBR which is you cannot reduce your budget any more than last year's budget. >> So that means if it goes to a third referendum, it goes back to that number. >> Cannot be below the MBR. it. You start with that number while you continue to vote. >> Right? >> It isn't that it the third vote. It becomes that. It just what you hold at >> until you pass the budget. >> But let's not worry, >> right? That's down the road. >> That's way down the road. >> What do we want to

276do tonight, y'all? Um, >> did you still discuss >> motion? I said we call that vote the main vote. >> That's right. We still have that on the tape. I told you that never left the table. >> Then we can move forward to >> All right. So, hold on. We'll find out on that. We uh >> hold on. Let's not get out. So, we have a motion on the table to approve the budget of 26,59,482. Um, >> I am going to bring that motion to a vote. >> I am assuming we have no other amendments to this original motion at this point. >> Not tonight. >> No, I think we're amended out here. >> So, Joe Joseph Santoro. No. Shane Sella, no. Probably still here. >> Chrissy Rylander, yes. >> Frank Oliver, no. >> John

277Moore, no. >> Kurt Warner, no. >> Nora Mccursky, no. Eleanor Bishop, yes. >> Carol Kak, no. >> Okay, that's seven to two. No. >> Motion fails. >> So, we have no motion on the board right now. So, um I think So, we can clear our heads. I think we should make a motion um to reconvene um to Tuesday night at 6 p.m. >> in this room. >> We have the room. >> We do have it available. >> It's the 3rd of March. Okay. >> March, sir. >> Thinking ahead. Okay. >> I have a I I will make this motion. Does Would anyone like to second? Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> Oh, yeah. Thank you. >> Was that nine to >> nine nine to zero? Okay. >> That was to return to reconvene

278Tuesday at 6 p.m. here. >> Correct. We're not done here. >> We are not done. Tuesday. >> Hold on, Shane. Well, Shane, you can >> We have public comment, right? >> Yes, we do. So, >> that closes um item three, our action item. So, on to item four, public comment. >> Anybody? >> Hold on. Let me get the uh >> Chief, >> hold on, man. I got to read it out. The Winchester Board of Education welcomes you to its business meeting. This is the second opportunity to hear comments from the public. We welcome and encourage public participation as a value part of community painting input with the Winchester Board of Education. We appreciate your adherence to the following. Complete the requested information on the sign-in sheet if you wish to speak. State your name and

279address when you're called upon to speak. Uh you will be allotted three minutes to share your comments. Please be advised that is not the practice of the board of education to engage in dialogue regarding commentary. The superintendent schools will be directed by the chairperson to prepare an appropriate response in a timely manner. We appreciate your time and thoughtful commentary. At this time of night, I would appreciate adhering to the threeminut rule. Come on up. >> Matt Smith2 tonight really proved it was painful to watch. I have to thank you all because you're working very hard and you're trying to get this monumental path and I think you mentioned this is very important. That's what however you mentioned to think out of the box and we have to think out of the box. dream >> and

280and thinking out of the box is crucial in this situation. Um I really think at this point, especially since Gilbert has a new headmaster there, right, and Mike Susi and they have some other people that they brought on. I think we have to look at if we were going to build a school this district today, we would never have it bifurcated and have it separated where we had seven, you know, through six and 7 through 12. It'd be one fluent system that served our community the best it could. I think we have to look into how we can combine those resources, save the money, and get everything that you're talking about. All these things are valid points, Nora. You mentioned a lot of things that are great things that great programs that we don't want

281to give up for the kids, but there has to be a way to combine the resources and get it done. I really think you should be sitting down in a room with Gilbert and with other people and hashing it out and figuring out a plan, a bonafide plan to move forward. So in the future, we have this, you know, settled and and we can really run a budget, not go through this circus and to have this happen now at the at the last few days and everything pushed in. And I've seen it year after year again. It's groundhog day as you said. It's not fair to the It's not fair to do to the kids. It's not fair to do this whole system. So, I hope you can get this straightened out on Tuesday, but

282till then, I think you have a lot of back channels, a lot of work, and a lot of speaking to other people to see what you can do because I think you can make it happen. I think you can get a plan and figure it out. And that's all I have to say. But thank you. >> Does anyone else wish to speak? Does anyone else wish to speak? Going once. Going twice. Sold. Okay. Moving on to item five, adjournment. Would anyone like to make a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> Jonathan. Second. >> Second. >> Joseph. All in favor? >> I didn't think we get a second. All right, Chan. I'll call you later. >> Okay.