Board of Education - Special Meeting - February 12, 2026

001All right, we good to go. >> Perfect. Uh, welcome everyone uh to the Winchester Public Schools Board of Education special meeting budget workshop for February 12, 2026. Um, I'd like to start with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> The second TV screen is on. Not on. Let's just make sure we're live. >> Usually that second TV is on. all on the left. >> It is live. Yeah. Let me make sure. It's just weird that the TV's not on. >> Okay. Heard us. >> All right. Uh, >> it is live. >> Roll call. >> Uh, Joseph Santoro, >> Chrissy Rylander, >> Frank Oliver, Shane Crella, >>

002Carol Warner, >> Julie Luby, Norman, Eleanor Bishop, Carol, >> Jonathan Mohart. >> All right, on to item two, public comments. The Winchester Board of Education welcomes you to its business meeting. There are two opportunities set aside to hear comments from the public. We welcome and encourage public participation as a valued part of communicating input with the Winchester Board of Education. We appreciate your adherence to the following. Complete the requested information on the sign-in sheet if you wish to speak. State your name and address when called upon to speak. And you will be allotted three minutes to share your comments. Please be advised it is not the practice of the board of education to enga engage in dialogue regarding commentary. The superintendent of schools will be directed by the chairperson to prepare an appropriate response in

003a timely manner. We appreciate your time and thoughtful commentary. Does anyone wish to speak? >> Please do. >> So I'll come here. Is it on now? >> You got the uh hit the microphone. That's >> so I don't know if I'm here as a resident or your state representative, but I wanted to come in here and talk a little bit about budget and what we're doing in Hartford. But some of the things I'd like to talk about also is the ECS and what this town has gained other than ECS dollars over the years since 200 was it 2017. And I have handouts for you. Above and beyond ECS, this town has garnered over $18 million. Well, above and beyond ECS. that just goes 2017 through 2022 for the reason those are the only audited numbers

004the state could give me last week. This came from the commissioner's office so I'll pass out. So you guys have a lot of it commissioner network which is way out of budget. So your BCS money will be not included in this list. >> Thank you. >> [clears throat] >> a while to pull it together. >> So, it's just, you know, we talk about ECS and I've been fighting hard with the commissioner now and somebody knows probably heard me talk about it for when we were in receiverhip. This woman named Charlene Gussel Tucker was here at Bachelor. She was here with Kathy Dempsey doing the receiverhip and the finances. It's fortunate enough for us as a district that person who's doing re the receiverhip Charlene Russell Tucker is now the commercial now the commissioner of education

005and Kathy Dempsey is now the CFO. So we have the two top people that know our district very well. >> Okay. >> And know what we need for money. Um, when I talked to the commissioner last week, she says, "Jay, I'm going to tell you, if you want out of the Alliance district, petition to get out, but your money's not protected." That's why she has us in Norwich still in there, the two schools that do have um a a semi-private high school are both alliance districts. So, she's protecting both. It's just what she thinks is right. But you can petition to get out of it. It puts you in a larger pool where things might go down. She's nervous this year because she stated to me she has 11,000 less students in the state of

006Connecticut. So her pool might go down. The numbers, the money. We're pushing hard. Everybody's talking about the $4 billion. That's overt tax money of yours. It should come back to the district. It should come back to the people. It needs to. But the governor will also he's his office with the department pulled this together. So they know we've gotten extra money above and beyond ECS and that's quite a large amount. Some of the things our commissioners network as I talked to the previous superintendent when it came in you had to have an exit plan when that money was gone. A lot of that was special needs for special teachers to come in to try to boost the district back up. Ironically that came in just as um Charlene Russell Tucker prior to becoming commissioner. She's

007the one who lobbied for that and then she became commissioner after that in 2021. Um, and she kept pushing for more money. So, it's only a five-year deal is Commissioner's Network. There's only a few towns in it that have Commissioner Network. There's $9 million a year for Commissioner's Network. Alliance districts, there were 30. That was the cap. The state has decided to keep everybody in unless you want out. So, now there's 33. Um, and those are just protected districts across the state that but we we are way above the average right now. We don't need to be in the alliance district anymore because we we overqualify for what it is, but we have the option to stay in. Um, so when you look at that and the governor released his budget, I sent you spreadsheet

008which is a mile long of the town runs the board of ed stays neutral with the alliance money. You can pass that around. But that problem with that document came out on the 6th, two days after the budget. It's just a guideline right now. As as Julie said, she'll be testifying Tuesday in appropriations. I'm not on appropriations anymore. I was for eight years. I'm a ranking member of human services, so I deal a lot with people's needs. We're probably the largest uh committee budget in the state budget. Um so I stepped off appropriation to concentrate on that. It's important to be there. It's important to testify. This is where this document gets picked apart. This is the governor's recommendations. This lowers education funding. This lowers magnet schools $12 million. So we can have $12 million

009for free uh breakfasts. This lowers a lot of line items in here. I can you can get this online. I can get you a copy of it, but it mirrors what last year's was. 56 billion budget. Okay, we're in the second year of it. And we can't go up from that because we are slated for a two-year bienium budget. So the thing that stinks, something I've always talked about in Harford, our budget should be done before the municipal budgets. We need to give you your money so you know what. So anything we do now, it's going to be for next year unless we make a correction within this budget, but you're not going to know. We get the budget about 4:00 a.m. the night before we get to vote on it because we don't get

010to see it as a minority party. It comes at 4:00 a.m. Then we have 12 hours to read it, thousandpage document, and then it's voted on. those min municipal runs will be done at 4:00 a.m. So, we won't know that until that document comes what the final numbers are. We lobby for it. We want to make sure that, you know, our towns are taken care of. It's important. Education is a number one. Our kids are important. We need to take care of it. The commissioner does look at it and she says, "Listen, commissioner's network dollars in Winchester, it's great. you had all these extra teachers brought in, but when they leave the six system, they don't have that in the rest. She's looking at that. But when I say, and I know Julie and I

011have been on a call with her, and she has corresponded with you since you and I had that conversation, she says she's worked with you on attorney stuff and things like that. She's been very accommodating to superintendent. You know, she wants to offer up whatever you can because she needs to protect the superintendent. Um, but she wants a long-term agreement with whatever higher school we go with just because she she wants to she she wants a commitment and she wants to work with us. It's so great that we had her here for two years. She actually ran our books so she knows what's in there. [snorts] That's how she knew what to give us for commissioners network money and what the town needed. She had her hands in it. No other district has that. So

012we're looked at pretty highly. I don't want to take up more than my three minutes, but I can ask answer questions for you guys if you want. I just wanted to make sure because I don't want to go out saying that we haven't done anything in the state since 2009. I lobbied hard for the commissioner's network when I got into office and made sure that we could find extra money. It wasn't us that put us into alliance district. It was a commissioner that put us there because of our situation. We can get out of that. So, we're not protected, but we have to make that call. You guys have to make that call. >> So, there's a chance that the money could go down >> if we got out of the alliance. >> Well, he

013said we could >> if the chair decides to. So, and my number is I I did speak to the chair. I've spoken to Carol once. I've not spoken to anybody else. My phone number's out there. Give me a call. In years past, I've talked to Nora um mostly on educational stuff because she has a good input being a teacher in the schools and some of the things we do don't make sense and she lets me know they don't make sense, but they're baked. Things are baked after hours in Hartford. So, be boisterous in Harford. We'll see what we can get for money. But I just want to make sure we have gotten a lot of grant dollars in this town. We want to continue to do that. and the commissioner wants to help us do

014that. So, we want that $4 billion come back. We don't want you paying the public benefits. We want you to have your money to where it goes, but we have a huge debt in Harford as far as pensions. We haven't paid pensions for years. We're just starting to. It's a big thing. You know, you pay off$9 billion last year in pension debt. >> N billion of the of the 46 billion we owe. What did that do for us? That loosened up $700 million of interest in our budget to where we could use elsewhere. 9 billion loosened up 700 million that we would have to pay in an interest. So if we keep paying those chunks like that, we're going to stop paying all the interest that we're paying. So that's it. I'm here. >> Thank

015you. Thank you very much. >> I did receive something too. I received an email. someone. It was actually um selectman bishop who asked me to share something on his behalf because he can't be here. Um he said, "I am unable to join in person tonight because I'm in Hartford at this moment advocating for emergency funding with some of our highest level lawmakers. The governor is currently amending the fiscal year 2027 budget. I believe there may be some hope left to receive an amendment to our ECS contribution this year. There are important points to argue about updating our ECS population. Winchester has been designated as far more economically distressed than last year according to both the Department of Economic and Community Development and the PIC index. [snorts] I am especially hopeful that the ECS calculation will

016be permanently amended before the next budget as this is a current legislative priority in Hartford. This means next year's budget could include a significant ECS increase. It is important to continually advocate for Winchester's unique needs as legislators redevelop the ECS formula this year. I don't believe we need to always see things as black and white, either good schools in high taxes or high taxes and designated schools. There is always a third path and I am working to support you and our schools by leaving no stern un no stone unturned. I am an optimist. I am taking steps every day to use my unique political position to challenge my own party to do better at the state level. I hope we I hope we may all be creative and ambitious in finding ways to support our

017students. Thank you for looking out for all of our children. [snorts] >> Thank you. >> If anyone else wishes to speak, please speak now. Does anyone else wish to speak? You have >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Does anyone else wish to speak? Okay, seeing none, move on to item three, action item. Um, this is the fiscal year 27 budget review discussion and possible action on the vote on the budget. Does anyone wish to make a motion um concerning the budget? >> Before we do, uh, wasn't the information going presented uh that I emailed about? I have information to share. As a matter of Robert rules, you need a motion on the floor and then you hold the discussion. >> Oh, I'm so sorry. >> It's not in lie of discussion. >> Motion to enter discussion.

018>> It wouldn't be a motion for discussion. It would have to be a main motion on the budget. >> Would anyone like to make a motion uh concern on the budget? >> Then I'll make a motion. Okay. Um I move um well can I pre-talk then motion? >> I think you need to make your motion. >> Okay. Um, I move to have the four Winchester Public Schools members appointed to the Gilbert School Corp to call for a special meeting of the Gilbert School Corp to put on an agenda, a motion and possible action to resend the motion made last night of the tuition bill of 10,471,6 $670 to have further discussion. Pending more information about class sizes, program participation both in clubs and athletics to have the data to make an informed decision using that

019data. Tiffany summary. >> Yeah. >> Would anyone like to second that motion? >> I'll second that motion. >> Okay. There is a motion on the floor. Would you like to read read it again? >> Sure. >> I move. >> Hold on. It needs to be about our budget, which I think you brought it around to. >> Y, >> it does have to. I mean, our action item is about our budget discussion. So, >> which includes the Gilbert bill. >> Thinking that through. Yeah. Okay. Want me to restate? >> Sure. >> I move to have the four W. Winchester public school members appointed to the Gilbert School Corp to call for a special meeting of the Gilbert School Corp board to put an agenda, a motion and possible action to resend the motion made on February

02011th, 2026 that approved the Gilbert School Corp tuition bill to the Winchester Public Schools for 10,471,670 to have further discussion pending Information on enrollment in all programs, clubs, activities, and athletics. And class sizes per teacher, per building in all programs. Can you read the first motion of that? Because you're saying that you want four of our people to be appointed to the corporation. >> No. >> Okay. Read. Could you read that? >> The four that are already on [snorts] >> on the board. Okay. >> That are already on the board. >> And we had a second. Do we have a second? >> Who's second? >> And my only question is we do we have the right to do that? That's part of the discussion. >> Okay. I don't think we have the right to do

021that. >> So, we have a motion. It's been seconded and now it's discussion. >> No, it's discussion. >> Okay. Um, just to context, put some context to this. >> Okay. Um, I would expect as duly elected members of this community, as board of ed members that have been elected by the public, that one of the fiduciary fiduciary responsibilities is to effectively manage our taxpayer dollars. So, one of those ways to do this to deliver an excellent program for all kids preK through 22. The way in which we can do that is to get information. Last night, I watched the board meeting. I didn't have that information. as a taxpayer. I didn't hear that information and I didn't see that information in the Gilbert budget. I think that in order for you for the four members

022of this board to make a fair assessment of the programming, one would have to examine all the data because we are talking about uncovering and leaving no stone untouched. And part of the stone is what are the enrollments in athletic programs in the middle school and in the high school, freshman programs, JV programs, varsity programs because that has been budgeted over $100,000. Part of the examination should be how many kids are enrolled in clubs in the middle school and in the high school because that has also been budgeted over $100,000. And enrollment in classes to have that data should simply be part of the conversation. And I implore the four people that serve on their board to have that data in your hands just [snorts] so you can make a decision because we need to

023examine everything. A $2.5 million ask on just the education side is over two mills. So everything has to be examined with a fine comb and part of that is participation and enrollment. And unfortunately, I did not see that last night and I believe you've asked it of the corp as a question and I don't know if you've received it since last night, but it would need to be examined by program by building uh in those measures. Do you feel that that question was answered last night by head of school Susie >> as far as the clubs the clubs >> in this in this academic or athletics >> yep >> budget book here. So it would speak to specific >> as far as the I can speak to what he said on the athletic part. Um

024there were to the teams that were not there um this year. Um it does not necessarily mean the teams won't be there next year next year. And the teams that were not there um that he said that one of the teams had over 24 kids on it. So they had to add an assistant for middle school. So they moved one of one of the stipens for the teams that were not in existence to that middle school assistant coach. He did explain that last night. He said uh as far as the clubs are concerned um he did account for that. He did talk to that and if you were watching he did speak to that. >> Do you have numbers on paper to which you can examine? >> No. Okay, that's my ask. >> Frank, do

025you have anything to add? >> He um he did explain the um academic classes that some because of the PT classes such as physics and math that some classes are larger than others, some have nine, some have 18 students, and it all depends on which program and which kids select what programs for the PT classes. So he says you're not going to see like he he said in words was you're not going to have a fourth grade class like here in elementary school and have 60 students. So you divide by four and you get 15 in each. He says we have well we have open enrollment for the kids to pick the course that they wanted the math the physics the sciences and by that that's how we set up the class sizes. So some

026classes will have 18 some classes will have 12. I'm fully aware of high school scheduling and I do understand that some classes are going to be low and I do understand that kids need specific classes to graduate on time. However, you don't have that data to examine that. >> But what would that gain us by examining that that that it's not what he's saying is true >> or you want to see it in black and white and that's the only way you believe it. >> I think taxpayers need to know that we've examined everything I think I think it's important to note that in the younger grades um through sixth grade there are no you know free afterchool sports teams um there's no afterchool clubs. There's a few, but kids pay to be involved in

027them. So, which is fine, but I think it needs to be a conversation about equality. I mean, I'm not saying anybody's lying from the Gilbert school. Nobody distrusts the Gilbert school, but I just think like I just think we need to make sure we're examining both sides of things equally and I believe our superintendent has provided a very detailed budget for us and I don't think it's unreasonable to request the same from head of schools Susi. So [clears throat] pardon. So are you asking uh the people to recommend to head of school suits to cut some of their fund through programming? >> That that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking to have the data in front of you so you can make decisions. >> Like Frank said, what what does >> what does it >>

028what does that achieve for like class sizes? So you're saying is what we received this past month the the white book which is a damn budget line by line is not sufficient for us to make a decision about the budget. >> You don't have an you there's further detail there that you could have. >> Thank you. >> Yeah I think the overarching question is how would that change the outcome or being able to pour through the budget? How would that change the outcome? So I think that's kind of the question >> it it may not but you're signaling to the taxpayer you've done everything you've looked at everything and I am looking for you for folk to know that there is further detail you can examine >> I think at our last meeting I did

029speak about asking for reductions us and them equally Um, and possibly with more information we could make that request more specifically. Um, and we can get a better idea of again making sure that kids in this town have an equal opportunity for whatever whatever their education may include. But I think with any with detailed information we can be much more specific and exact if you will in requests in just general knowledge for taxpayers as well. One of the one of the enhancements this year is what they found out in the last two months is to in the next year and a half 18 months to improve the math program because of what the state had told them about their program previously >> which they didn't know about. So that's one of its major >> advances

030address the after school program. It says right on here that you got stuff from the state right here that >> it's a grant for champs. >> Okay. You said there was no after school stuff. people still pay to participate in those activities. Part of that is a daily afterchool program like um like I'll say like a daycare you know >> everybody does every public school does >> right so that's >> my daughter pays for her dad's after school stuff >> right so our CHAMPS program allows us to provide a very affordable after school program >> and then with the Champs grant we provide activities for the kids at less cost than it would be out in the world we do a basketball clinic but the kids pay I think $45 to participate we do a

031school play, but the kids pay about $70 to participate. Um, we do a ski club, the kids pay >> all of their own expenses. The Champs Grant pays just for the staff to run it. So, I don't The only after school activities that the kids don't pay for and are funded through Champs are um a yearbook club and our drone activity the kids are not paying a fee for. Okay. So, they are getting >> and there's nothing wrong with paying for children to be involved in these things. It's it's great opportunities and I'm glad that we can provide them. But if there's a whole other half of our school district that does not have to pay for after school activities, it creates an equal inequal experience. >> Well, if it's sports, no school charges for

032sports. So if you're in the football >> pay to play, >> of course they do. >> Or pay to participate, I should say. >> Well, not where my kids went to school. You >> there are districts that do >> that. Okay. But for the most part, my my >> or they rely on fundraising. >> My I mean they have their own fundraising. The PTO was involved. They did, you know, every game they do. >> But we're talking about this district. >> Okay. But I'm also making a suggestion that if you like at the high school they h the PTO had had food at halftime. They were cooking hamburgers, hot dogs, they had food, they had ice cream. So they made money. >> So the kids didn't really have to pay for it is what I'm

033saying. >> So then we unfortunately don't have >> sporting um activities at our school anymore now that seventh and eighth grade >> right >> is up at Gilbert. That's unfortunate because I think having sporting teams brings pride to the school. Um something that I think we'd like to have more, you know, have more things that bring more pride to P like the Pearson pan Pearson pride that used to be a thing. Um it still is, but we don't have teams to celebrate anymore. Um, so unfortunately we don't have I mean that available to us anymore. Um, I I want to be careful on where we're going with this because it's it's detracting from what we came here to do tonight. Um, what we what we did last night, what was voted on last night, whether

034we agree or not, it has been done. Um, we had the budget puts to come over. We did send questions. He did answer questions last night >> and all the other nights and all the other previous meetings. >> The only and and they are contributing $250,000 to this budget. Um I won't say that's a profit of $250 because they're not counting the grants that are coming to them. So we offset the grants that are are being owed to them. So it won't be a total of 250 that's coming to the budget. Um but uh it's not like we didn't re we might not have like data of every every class or anything like that but we made an informed decision and we voted on it last night. So and we have to also understand that

035we can make suggestions to them all they want. They are a vendor of us. they are part of our budget. Uh any vendor, we do not make the rules of what the vendor does, right? We can make suggestions, they make the final decision. So, our purpose tonight is to discuss our 2027 budget and hopefully move towards a vote on that tonight or further discussion or whatever. There is a motion on the floor and there's a second. >> I would like to say one more thing. >> I am not interested in running the Gilbert school program. I'm not. Okay. Um I am just looking at and we can look at our own budget tonight. >> We can. >> Well, I hope so. >> We still can do that business. I'm just asking for information so that

036this community knows we've looked at everything. Could I ask a question that you brought it up there? This year I I believe is the first time you have met with the town manager and Mr. >> um >> Susie >> Susy, right? I mean as you've had meetings with them these past months about the >> the three of us met together once >> once or twice >> I meet with Paul every other week >> weekend. So I mean there is that communication above us which never before I believe happened which is good >> it has in the past it's been >> so here here's what we have right and this is what I learned last year. there is distrust between the two entities. Um I'm trying to move that forward. Um which is why Julie and

037uh head of school Susie have met on a consistent basis. Right. >> Um, we need to trust one another and this talk and this going down the same road year after year is not going to help with that trust. Okay. >> How many years have you been on board? >> 11 years. >> My 11th budget. >> Okay. And you've been looking for other options beside Gilbert for probably 11 years now. You have not found any solutions. We have a solution. And I can go back to what I said last year. We have a solution presented in front of us. It's been a solution that we've had for over a hundred years. We need to work with what we have and create trust with one another because otherwise every year going into budget season, we're going

038to have an us versus them thing and it's not going to end well for anyone, including our kids. So, if anyone [clears throat] doesn't have anything else to say on this topic, we have a motion. We have a second. We can vote on this motion right now. All in favor of the motion presented for us. More information. >> Okay. All post. Okay. Six to three against. Okay, moving on. >> Can I make a motion? >> If it refers to our 2020, Absolutely. I would like to make a motion to approve the superintendent's appropriated budget request less $9,600 reflecting the placeholder that was in uh Gilbert's original ask um for a total of 26,540,962. >> Do we have a second? >> I will second. >> May I make a question to that? We yep, we are

039open. >> So we have a motion on the floor. We >> are you discussing debate now? >> Okay. >> And I have all of the information I us to bring as well. >> My qu my question is then that doesn't include the ESC funds of 7,823,991 which should be subtracted from that total budget number of 27 million or 26 million whichever you're using. >> Don't disagree with you Frank. >> What? >> Look on page 13 please. You want for you want for 19. >> Go to page 13 in our budget. >> This is on Tuesday, right? The same. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Okay. >> We have the total anticipated cost for operating budget for Winchester schools 27,547,356. line below that is educating cost sharing grants to the town ECS funding to offset cost education.

040So my question to you is I want to see the 19,723,365 as the number we present to the town manager not the 27 million. And before we discuss the ECS, I have a question because I went on the Secretary of the State of Connecticut's website and I pulled out all the ECS for every for every district whatever in the state of Connecticut and in this one it says for the past for 2024 256 26 27 it says we're getting 8,24,957 200,960 or something I'm making that up a little is diverted to the district directly because we are an alliance district. The two in combination you'll see in our grant pages the 200 reflected our full ECS amount is that $8 million number. >> So just put it under that's a different line item is what

041you're saying. >> So the ECS portion goes directly to the town to defay the cost to the taxpayer and through alliance they said you get a little piece of that ECS direct rather than as an off. >> Okay. the town's getting it to defer the cost of education. >> The 7.8 goes directly to the town. The 200 goes to the board of ed budget. >> Okay. >> And it's reflected that way in our book. Okay. So, your number is correct. >> I just wanted I just Okay. >> So, I don't know that if that's what has always been done procedurally if the town receives the grant money and then I don't know that we can >> change. It says right here that cost the taxpayers. This is our budget right in front of us. This

04219723 365, it's there for a reason. >> I understand. I I understand what you're saying, but I don't I don't know that we can change that. >> I haven't changed anything. It's here. This is what it says. I'm not changing them, but this is what it says in the summary. >> I don't think we made the call on that. >> So, that would be a great conversation. And I think I may have suggested before with the town manager in his budget we are one line and if we were to request the 19,000 it would be the 19,000 and he would have the eight or the 19 million I'm sorry and the 8 million would be shown as a credit to the town. The amount that he puts in our bank account if you will would

043be the 19 million. It's it's love the way you're saying it [laughter] >> because last year I remember at the auditorium the number was 21,900,000 not 239 that's shown in our books now. >> Um I don't think so. So to me, I'm a taxpayer. Never mind. I'm here now on this side. I'm a taxpayer. Frank says the number 19 million. I want my taxes based on [laughter] >> but but it's all county. >> Listen, you're a better salesman. You can sell whatever number we give you. >> But it's saying on this side, these are our expenses. And this side this these are all our grants. So they're But it's it's accounting. >> No, I go to I go to a restaurant and somebody gives me a gift certificate. The bill is 200. I get a

044gift certificate for 100. I pay 100. This is my gift certificate. 7 billion. >> You're not wrong, Frank. You're not wrong. >> So, if I'm not wrong, why isn't that the number we're voting on? That's all I'm asking. >> He's not answering that question. >> It's a question to the town manager. It is, as Carol said, it's a function of accounting and the way it's shown in the town budget. You're right. Our request is 19 million plus the ECS funding, which is there to defay the cost to the taxpayer. Frank, let's you and I go see Mr. Harrington tomorrow. I'll >> happily come along. >> Unfortunately, the end result of the taxpayer is the same that I mean it doesn't. >> Is it? >> It is. >> Yes. So, your point is spot on. The

04519 million is the ask of the taxpayer. >> So, shouldn't that what be the number we >> That's what we'll sell. >> Well, [clears throat] I guess All right. Passing off a vote. I mean we have a right to vote. >> No, let's keep it this discussion. So we have we have the motion on the floor um to accept the budget as it has been presented to us. I think um Julie has a couple scenarios to go over. >> I do >> um just for us to further understand >> what the current what we currently have and what if if we did make some cuts to the budget, what would that look like? How would that affect our stands? So, um I'm just going to go off script for one second and react to I

046think um Jay made such an important point when he spoke that I think should be present in everyone's mind when we have this discussion. There's a lot of talk about why is our budget getting so much bigger. Jay painted the picture for you. Um I sort of drew on mine. There were the commissioner network years where we had a great influx of money. than there were the COVID years where we had a great influx of money and our rich uncle is gone. >> Right. That's why >> we are out of special >> needs >> um special sources of revenue. >> They're gone. So all those years of zero that we had were I'm not going to say okay but they were they were masked perfect word by first commissioner's network money then co money I

047now know why the former superintendent left when she did >> because we hit a huge cliff where inflation's doing this >> and the funding dried up and is gone and it is the perfect storm >> where it's coming back on in the town. Now, >> as I think Jay mentioned and Mr. Bishop mentioned, we are trying I am learning everything I can quickly about advocating in Hartford two ways. One to address just in general. For example, the revised budget cuts all of our uh family resource center funding. And we don't pay but $3,000 to have a family resource center which has playgroups for little kids like two days a week and they take trips and they do parent education and they're a really important program. If the governor's budget passes as is, we lose ours

048because we don't pay for it through the appropriated budget. Um, so I will be advocating for all of the different aspects of the governor's budget that address education in hopes that something goes up instead of down along with everyone else in the state trying to get more money to education. The other thing I am trying to do is communicate one of the things after great study of the ECS formula. If we were a K12 district and did not have an endowed academy for our secondary students, we would be getting a million dollars more because the formula is set up so that you have a foundation base amount for your students and then it's there's like multipliers for your level of need in the community. Your endowed academy students don't get those multipliers. So after some

049very um complicated calculations and a lot of support from AI um it it's determined we would be getting a million dollars more if not for being penalized when in fact we pay we the definition of ECS is it is the students for which you are financially responsible. We are 100% financially responsible for all the kiddos regardless of what grade they're in. And we are being penalized a million dollars a year for literally no good reason. And in all likelihood, we may be the only district in the state to whom that is an issue because we are probably the only ones who there's only three endowedmies. So there's less than a dozen [music] towns that even use endowedmies. And we are probably the only district who sends all our kids >> to that one place versus

050letting kids choose between half a dozen places. >> Um, >> but don't we let them choose? >> No, >> they they can go to Waloff. >> No, >> the high school kids can't. No, >> they can't choose to go there. >> Do you mean Oliver Wal? >> Yes, that [music] is we have to allow that. Yes, they can. >> So, we do let them choose >> in they can apply to get in there. Most towns who use an endowed academy might say, "Well, you can go to this town's high school, that town's high school." There are options. >> So, it's a public high school is what you're saying. They have to have more than one option. >> They don't have to, but they typically do. And all the other endowedmies draw students from more than

051one town. So, we are really a unique scenario. >> We're already one of just three. And I think we're one of one. by way of saying I think we have a compelling argument that we are being unduly >> ripped off if you will inadvertently not saying anyone's doing anything wrong but when you stop and look at the calculation so I will also be trying really hard with Jay's support to figure out to whom I can say that um and I think I can make a compelling argument I mean if we could get another million dollars a year we might not be having this conversation tonight so I thank you Jay for showing the cliff Because that does tell the story of why you're seeing, you know, I've heard it said, well, >> the board of

052ed has had large increases over the last couple years. Yes. Yes, we have. Because we had none for such a long time while we had grant funds and now that the grant funds are gone, we've got to rebuild the foundation to do business. >> That's right. >> So, the budget that I presented, I guess it was just last week, wasn't a wish list. It was the baseline requirement for a safe and compliant school district. You asked and I have prepared scenarios for further reductions. But I'm going to just say to you that these are not efficiencies. They are deletions of essential services. We've been chipping away for over a decade with our budget growth trailing inflation by nearly 20%. The current budget is 99.64% fixed by law or contract. Any large reductions can only come

053from the 36% of our budget that's discretionary or by defaulting on our mission to provide a safe, highquality education. We've made staffing reductions through attrition, trading some one position for another one. We've absorbed roles. People have left and we've said, "Okay, we won't replace them. We'll just divvy up their work." Um, we've gone without increases so long that we are way behind the growth of inflation. [clears throat] Ultimately, the drivers of our increase are tuition, benefits, and transportation. And that's 84% of the increase. When the funding fails to keep pace with inflation, the district borrows from its future by not filling essential positions and forcing the remaining remaining staff to absorb multiple roles. area. Reductions in the areas of special education and safety aren't just cuts. They're potential violations of state and federal law. With

054so little of the budget being discretionary, there is no fluff to cut. One of the things that we haven't done, and I was considering suggesting, but in the spirit of time, I won't. If we go through the budget detail pages of this book and turn the pages together page by page by page, I will challenge you to find anything that is undefined and superfluous. The only pages that get only just so far like instructional supplies and I can share with you the worksheets behind that with the price of the markers and the construction paper. Every penny in this budget is accounted for and none of it is fluff. We need to deliberate remembering that an investment in knowledge pays the best interest. Any cuts are going to be a long-term debt the community will eventually

055have to pay through d decreased student achievement and potential legal challenges regarding mandated services. The savings we take today will be paid back with interest in the form of legal challenges, lost staff, and diminished student potential. This board set priorities, support students and support staff and increase teacher retention. Nothing in the scenarios you're going to look at tonight is aligned with those priorities. The scenarios I'm going to show you will result in, and there's several different scenarios, either larger class sizes, the loss of mandated student supports, the loss of programs, or the inability to maintain a safe, positive school climate. To cut further is to move from an already lean operation to one that is fundamentally unable to meet the needs of Winchester students. We are now getting into the structural integrity of the school

056system itself. So, I'm going to give you this is a two-sided paper. I'm going to ask you to start on the side that says request one. That's my copy. And when it gets to the ends, if you want to share for anyone else and Matthew, if you want to go ahead and put um request one side on the screen, if you can stretch it at all, that would be great. Um before you dig in, I want to say a couple things about what you're looking at and I'm going to take you through this in detail. Ordinarily, um I have made presentations before where we look at scenarios of reduction. Um it's a very common superintendent sort of strategy to label the top one, you know, green like, okay, I don't really want to, but I

057could. Yellow like you're getting in the danger zone, and red like this would be a hot mess disaster. I couldn't do that because even the smallest reduction on here is deep dark yellow and everything else on here is in the red like that's a really bad idea. The buzzers are ringing. Don't do it. Um I am uncomfortable with everything on this piece of paper and I want to be sure that you understand that I cannot support any of these scenarios. So I had two different requests. One request came in to take 25% of the increase um that we looked at at the last board meeting as part of your questions. We looked at the increase um and actually it's in the budget book as well. I'm saying that wrong. Just the increase that is supporting

058the K6 program. So the first side of this paper addresses 25% of the K6 increase and 50% of the K6 increase translated into dollars you see in the box. The first one is 226,000. The next one is 453. A second request came in for 30% of the total increase which is 767,000 and 50% of the total increase which is 1 point almost $3 million. What I want to just remind you is that of the $2.5 million increase, $900,000 of that is supporting the K6 students and it is entirely wages and benefits. If you go back in your budget books to the increase analysis on page 19, you'll see that the piece that is um supporting the part of the increase going towards um K6 students is actually $965,000 in wages and benefits. We have offset

059that by already going through the budget and shaving computer programs, um, supplies, anything we could to find $60,000 of offsets to that 965 number. The remainder of the increase, well, I'll do that when we get to the other one. So in the K6 if we were to try to reduce the overall budget by $226,000 and you'll see I've put in bold where it is eliminating human beings who work for us or have positions for us currently. um two classroom teachers, which obviously would lead to larger class sizes and would ultimately create um a budget hole because that class size reduction once those students age out of our district, every other grade needs four. So, for example, if we [snorts] were to cut a sixth grade teacher, that's a one-year cut and we'll need that teacher

060again the following year. Um, we would eliminate the cafeteria monitors that this budget added. We would eliminate field trips and field trip transportation. We would eliminate the stipen that we created for the gifted program. We would eliminate from the supply line, the steam night and the literacy night. We would take 10% off of classroom supplies. That line currently is $57,000. So we would reduce that by um another 5700 in addition to reducing the steam night and literacy night. So that would be about 12,000 or so out of 57,000. We would eliminate the additional um point4 of a custodian. If you've been in the schools this week, you would say that's such a bad idea. Um and we would reduce office supplies by 20%. Now, those office supplies, I think that budget line is roughly $13,000.

061Um, so you're maybe it's about Yeah, it's about 13,000. So, I'm talking about saving about 2500 to $3,000. The main thing in that budget line is the copy paper used to make instructional materials for kids. Um, there's about a thousand dollars across the two schools for pencils and erasers and bookmarks and all the things that we give the kids for perfect attendance and but being good. Um, big expense in that line, $2,000 worth is for the batteries for the walkie-talkie system that they use for those 2,000 behavior calls. Um, not optional. So, that's what it looks like to get to $226,000. And that was the easy one. >> Do you have any questions about anything in that scenario? >> Then I'll go on to the next. I will say to you um this is theoretical.

062When this board adopts a budget, whatever number you provide, I will go back with the leadership team, look at that number, and try to mitigate the impact as best I can. Um, one thing that's not calculated here is the $9,000 difference in the Gilbert number. So, if you tell me you need to cut $50,000, the first 10 will be that Gilbert. And I will look really hard to minimize and mitigate. This was built with real numbers. I started with um salaries for beginning teachers because if we eliminate two teachers, it will be the last two hired who typically are on step one and making the least amount of money. Um, so let's move on to the 50% of the K8 incre K6 increase, which is 453,000. That gets a little harder to do. As if

063the first one wasn't hard. Um, again, two classroom teachers. We would eliminate the one special education teacher that is additional in this year's budget. that teacher was slated so that we could create a prek K um I'll say autism program which was purposeful to avoid potential outplacements by creating that smaller setting that will be conducive to students with autism. We anticipate being able to save several out of district placements. >> Right. >> That program obviously would need at least one pair educator. So, we were adding one to support students in that as well as all over the place. >> Um, we would need to eliminate both safety officers. [snorts] We would eliminate the full $5,000 staff development budget. We would eliminate those cafeteria monitors that were going to be new in this budget. again the

064field trips and the field trip transportation um which we really can't take trips if we don't have budget money for it because you can't take trips for just the kids who can afford it and if we're making these kinds of cuts we have no way to support you know we could say well we'll charge the families but when Shane's mom says he can't go on the trip because I can't afford it typically school districts have a fun sorry Shane >> it's always [laughter] He's right there when I look to the side. I can't help it. >> Um, we can't take the trip if we can't support the students who can't afford it. And we obviously when we're in this position don't have a slush fund to say no problem, we've got you. So there would

065be no trips. Um, again, the gifted program, the steam night, the literacy night, the classroom supplies, the office supplies, and the point4 custodian. So those were the two smaller increases. Any questions [snorts] in that second category? Before you move on, I just want this the staff development. Um your um >> what you had this week for the restorative practice. >> Yes. >> Um she was here for two days. >> She's doing two full days. >> Yeah. >> And one afternoon. >> Yeah. Um very powerful stuff. >> Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. >> So it's it's important. It's important. Thank you. I'm really pleased to hear that feedback. It was just today, so I didn't know that yet. Um, okay. So, let's go to the second side and let's talk about the biggies. Um,

066these were 30% and 50% of the total increase, which is $2.5 million. I'm showing you there again, the 9006 supports K6. 856 is the increase in the Gilbert budget which obviously I have no influence over and 830,000 is for out of district special education tuition and transportation and as much as I wish I have no way to influence that either other than potentially um hiring staff and creating programs to bring kids back there but we're obviously not in a position to do that. So 30% of the total increase is $767,000. I have been working on that since long before the question was asked trying to figure out how to somebody said to me maybe it was Frank easily a week ago. Word on town is you've got to cut a million dollars. So I have

067spent countless hours trying to figure out how you get to a million dollars. I have stood on my head and spit nickels and here's what I've got. To get to 767, we stop doing specials. We have to do PE because it is required by law. But to take Carol's thought from the other day, what do we do that is not legally required? Well, there's no law that says we must offer art, music, and library innovation. However, what we must do is fulfill the teachers contract which requires a 40-minute prep daily. That is not the only reason that we do art, music, and library to provide a teacher's prep. However, by offering those classes, it provides the teachers prep. So if we eliminate specials, then we would shorten the school day by 40 minutes and the

068teacher's preparation period would be after school essentially still within their contracted workday. Undoubtedly, that would impact Gilbert because we can't run all the kids at once on the buses or it would double our transportation bills. So we would shorten our day by 40 minutes and our kids would leave Gilbert 40 minutes early. Whether they alter their day or not is not my purview. Um, >> and that would affect parents, of course, from work and pickups and everything else. You know, >> kids would be coming home 40 minutes earlier than usual. Right now, kids get home between 3 and 4. >> This means they'd get home between 2 and 3. >> Parents want there later. >> Yes. >> Add 40 minutes, please. >> Juliana, 30% of the total increase. You said eliminate one principal. >> Yep.

069Get in there. >> Each Oh, sorry. Go ahead. >> You're ahead of me. Um the six special area teachers don't get me all the way there. Um to get all the way there, we would also eliminate the Pearson principal position. It will be open because as you know, Barb has retired effective the end of the year. Um instead of hiring a replacement for her, we would um although it wouldn't save us that much. I goofed. We would name Rosie principal over both schools. Um, but I forgot that there is a stipend in the contract. Somebody double check me quick. Um, it may be $5,000 a month for every month that you're assigned to two schools. So, that would be 60,000. So, this is only getting me to about 700. I failed. I'm sorry. Um, I

070totally forgot that piece of my haste today. >> Statement. >> Okay. So that is probably only getting you to about 700,000, but I will recalc that. >> I did talk to Mrs. Salbury. She's not going to retire >> and she's going to work for free. >> Excellent. What great news. >> That's wonderful. >> With the grandid, >> you can bring the baby with you. >> Yes. >> Um I've tried to articulate a few of the reasons why I cannot suggest to you that it's a good idea to have one principal across both schools. Um, >> don't you have to by law have a principal in each building? >> No. >> I mean, you would you would have >> a principal of the school, but they would be floating between two buildings. My very first admin

071job actually I was assistant principal of um Stratford Academy Johnson House and Lucille was assistant principal of Statford Academy something with a very Stratfordy name Honeypot House and Marge Sherman was principal over both. Now >> so as long as you have an administrator >> I think it would not be illegal >> designated administrator. You would have to designate in the absence of the actual >> No, you would say that Rosie was the principal of both schools. She would be the principal of record. >> But when she's not in that building, >> you have to have somebody take over as record, >> right? >> Which is why we still have our assistant principles. >> Okay. >> So, some of the concerns that come to mind immediately are, you saw the data for behavior. So, if we're

072responding to over 2,000 calls at Hinsdale, and we've pulled an administrator 50% of their time out of that building, that's a lot less coverage for handling things like behavior and emergency situations. There was a situation yesterday and again today that tied up at least three or four adults for the entire day over one situation. um parents emails, you know, all of those [snorts] things would obviously be back burnered. Staff and student concerns, it's just going to be harder to get near your principal if you have one. Um our principles are the primary evaluator for PAR educators, BTS, speech and language assistants, teachers, um pretty much everybody, even the custodians. So if we take one person out of the mix on that, that redistributes the workload across everyone else and there's no way they're doing it

073with as much gusto and enthusiasm. >> It also means that there is less coverage to attend student PPTs and 504 meetings and um child study team meetings. There's just no way one person can do what two people did. So all that work flies on other people. Um, finally, I couldn't get to the million-dollar number. I think I shared with you um previously by explaining the only way to get to a million dollars was to take class size I mean just literally take like half of the classroom teachers. class size 40 doesn't fly um for all of the obvious educational reasons, but also because our classrooms are not rated by the fire marshal to go up to 40. That's not a thing. Um and the teachers who remain would be earning basically double salary because they'd

074be above class size. So it was a mobious strip equation. Everything I put out made it cost more. Um so here's what I've come up with. Gilbert School has published to us that the tuition rate is $24,000 a student. Multiply that by the 76 students we're projecting for seventh grade and keep them. Reduce the amount of tuition that we have to pay by $1.8 million. [snorts] We can hire the teachers and outfit four classrooms for under $500,000 and net about $1.3 million in savings. We would likely uh move the third grade to Hinsdale so that there was a more even distribution of students and tighten up the grade ranges. Um scenarios one, two, and three feel um like we are absolutely breaking our promise to students and the community. Um, number four I think could

075land us in litigation, but it's the only one on the list that actually feels doable. Um, so there you have it. I can take your questions. >> Why would they during litigation? >> I suspect that Gilbert will um debate us on the $1.8 million reduction to tuition, >> but we're encumbering those students, right? So that means we'd be K through seven instead of K through six. >> Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. >> Brings them back from Gilbert. Is there a We don't have >> We do not have a contract. >> We don't have a contract. But legal like >> we do not have to send seventh grade to Gilbert. >> So legally we don't have to send them I mean but space-wise is that doable? >> Yep. I can create four classrooms. I was

076watching previous meetings, one of the goals was taking back some of the kids before I was on the board. >> Okay. I I'm going to tell you I this is the only scenario that I think is worthy of discussion and I think it's a little bit complicated. >> A great idea. >> Um >> I I'm so glad I made you happy, Carol. >> Yeah. >> Question. >> Yes. >> Um so currently we're K through six. um suggesting K uh go K through 7, >> correct? >> What would happen if we get back to like what we were K through eight and only have you know 11 through 12 or 10 space? >> We also had an extra building. >> Yeah, we don't have any more room. >> That's true. >> It's not impossible. >> Oak

077Street's available perhaps. >> No, I mean Oak Street anything we could used to rent it. >> Yeah. during >> before we start opening other buildings. Yeah, let me say this. Eighth grade is, you know, I think pulling kids back who are already there is an uncomfortable ask, which is why seventh grade makes sense. Gilbert's already started their planning for next year. Not sending 76 kids is different than not sending 76 and calling another 75 families and saying, "Hey, we want the kids back." But I think if we did take seventh grade back and we want to continue on to ETH, we could have that conversation and look at what we could shift and move and create space in Pearson school and do a grades four through eight intermediate middle school. We It is Pearson Middle

078School. at some point before my time and knowledge it was a middle school. So >> no, then that would also help uh the gap from testing that is >> it might >> an issue because we have more control and then leave Gilbert to their own devices. >> I I I will say this and I think we we can after we get through the budget um we can talk about curriculum and I I think there was talking about collaboration on the math side with with Gilbert and K through six. Um I've also um getting like our math program goes K through five, correct? >> And then sixth grade is by itself. Um so if we could find alignment in curriculum with sixth, seventh, and eighth, um it could help Gilbert and the math scores. um speaking

079to our sixth grade teachers, there's some concepts that they don't teach that are required when they go up there. So, there is a gap. Um because they were at one point in the same curriculum, Gilbert jumped it pretty quick. They didn't like it. Um but also, I don't know if Gilbert likes the current curriculum they have. So, if if there's a discussion and and neither likes what they have, maybe we find a curriculum for both at the same time. and then you know we're coming from there but that's not what we need to discuss right now. >> I think it could be a good idea. I just think that fourth graders are very different than seventh graders. >> I that's what I worry I I think having third and sixth grade in the same >>

080building. Exactly. I know there's already parents that don't love that, but >> I think that I think that's tough. Um when Pear was the eighth you could that's >> that's different. Yeah. >> Um having young kids I mean we literally have prek in Pearson as well. >> Oh that's true. >> Um but >> that's true. >> You know I I' I've said that to Julie many times. I don't like having third graders with sixth graders. So for and that would be the same with fourth and seventh grade. Um so >> but how you know I guess like how much are they actually mingling? You know, >> if we did it, we would have the sixth and seventh grade on the third floor >> Separate. They obviously would not have lunch or recess at the same

081time. I will say in my experience, and you know, having been in a lot of districts, there are places that have K8 schools. >> That's right. >> PreK8 schools. Um, there is something very sweet that happens when a seventh grader can, you know, you have your seventh graders be book buddies with the third graders and go read. Although we're talking of moving third grade, so to the fourth graders. um four, five, six, seven is only a fouryear span, but you could say that in a typical K5 elementary, you have that many years span. >> That's true. >> Um people, you know, districts that change their bus tiers and all of a sudden they are going K12 on one run or all of a sudden they're doing, you know, 5 through 12 on one run and

082people are horrified. And it's because it's change >> at the end of the day. It would. There is nothing going on that would corrupt the minds of young people. >> They'd be fine. >> You would build your culture around it. >> Do we want to give the sixth graders another year to be big man on campus? [laughter] [clears throat] >> It isn't. [laughter] >> You can have that discussion with her. >> So, the good news is it would get easier to be a teacher because they'd no longer be the big dogs. Right. >> Okay. Anything else? >> One of the things I'll say is you are in the unique position. You are the board of education. Your mission is figure out what the kids need. If you think that the budget represents what they need

083and just don't like the price tag, I might say to you, send it forward. And between now and when it gets to the board of selectmen, we can have further discussions around keeping seventh grade if that's something that appeals to the board as a whole or continue discussing the other reduction scenarios. But if you don't [clears throat] see something that you're ready to commit to as a smart reduction and like I've said I don't support any of these um with the exception of the seventh grade with a little further research and um exploration then maybe the move is to put it forward as is knowing this conversation is going to be revisited by the board of selectmen anyway. Um this is not the end of the line. That was kind of my thought process going

084into this. We've looked through the budget. Um it is 9.8% is of that increase is um contractual obligations insurance. Like we the things that that are added are based off of our board retreat and the things that we said were most important to us. These are all things that we all felt strongly about and wanted to see. And that is what 1.4% of. So I um I don't understand why we would cut ourselves off at the knees when we know that there is potential to then be cut off at the thighs when it goes to the board of select. >> So let's go to page 20. Um this this is the page that we talked about the positions that we're looking to add. Um, we have the scenarios in front of us right um right

085there. There you go. Um, would anyone disagree based on the the data we got at the last meeting that having another BCBA [snorts] um having which would give us two throughout three schools um is that important to our district? >> Extremely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Any I I mean everyone I just want to hear from everyone. the BCBA and we had the data. >> I feel like that will help with our teacher retention as well. That's one of the big things we are hoping to >> when we discuss the tier one and tier two incidences >> last. >> So tier two and tier three instances last year had 1864 tier 2. Pearson had 49 this year. Aside from the tier three of Pearson, the numbers seem to have dwindled down. Part of that, I think,

086is because we had a fulltime BCBA in the three buildings at that point, specifically our two buildings, but um they he goes to Gilbert as well. Um so I don't know if that's a position I'm willing to give up for our students and for our teachers >> for the safety of our teachers too. um you know the professional development that they saw talked about restorative practices which the BCBA is is very big on and can teach um say green staff uh better better ways to cope with that [snorts] on the potential of having meltdowns. Um special education teacher I don't see that as So before we get into like the percentage of cuts we want to look at, um I want to see out of this list that we're looking to add positions. Are there

087anyone here that you can say do we really need? >> And I want to hear from everyone. If >> I can make a [snorts] recommendation. >> Yep. Um, we could get two behavior, three behavior technicians for one board certif BCBA. I mean, I know the BCBA is important, but you know, manpower and the ability >> behavior texts are not >> Go ahead. Honestly, Joseph, I'm giggling a little because I called Kathy this morning with that same question, >> knowing everything I do and I'm still working. I mean, I haven't slept in days trying to figure out how to do this. And so, I'm examining every single cut. And I called Kathy and I said exactly that. I said, "Look, what if instead of the BCBA, we got two BTS so that we had three in

088each building and you know, we use our one geo to really man everybody." And I was prepared to disagree with any argument she made because it's her job. No. No. Um, you've stopped me if I say anything wrong, but I mean, I listened for 45 minutes. Renee was in the room. I was prepared to do it anyway, no matter what she said. And she talked me out of it because she reminded me that the skill level of a BCBA and a BT are very different. And the capacity for what the BCBA does is very different. So the BCBA is the only one who can be doing the formal evaluations that are required. The number of students who are in the queue waiting to have functional behavioral assessments, which is what the specialty of the BCBA

089is. That's where people do all the observations, collect all the data, and analyze what's going on to say, why is Joseph popping off? And that's where we is it trying to get him out of the classroom. Is it trying to get him attention and really understanding the function of the behavior? That's why it's called the functional behavior assessment. He is the BCBA has to take the lead on those. Other people can help collect the data, but we don't have anyone else with the skill set to conduct those evaluations. That alone warrants the second BCBA. Plus, when you have a situation going on, if you have a BCBA who's mostly full-time in a building, then when something unexpected happens, the BCBA can get right there, see what's going on. Right now, it's only a 50/50, less

090than 50/50 because we're one day a week with Gilbert. It is not highly likely. It is less than 50% likely the BCBA will be on hand to see the behavior happening in its live moment. you have a person in each school, that probability goes way up. So, I did ask that same question. I'm a practical girl. I can get two for the price of one. And much to my surprise because once I get fixed on something, I don't change my mind easily. But Cabby's nodding, "Yeah, you're paying." But, um, I I am sold completely on keeping our promise that we made to supporting staff, supporting students. It's what we said we were about when we went into this budget. And BTS are great, but BCBAS are also super important. >> That was a great idea.

091>> I listen, that's what we're here for. >> Is that okay? Um I I had the exact idea you did, so I applaud the way you're thinking. >> I think your question was, is there anything on the list that could go? Right. Yeah. Does anyone if looking at that list of additions, >> what what are you comfortable in saying, you know what, I could I could see us doing without that and it won't impact our kids. >> I would say the behavioral technicians, we're asking for proposed one for this year. >> One. Yeah. So that there would be two at Hinsdale and two at Pearson. >> Based on those Hinsdale numbers, you could see why one BT is woefully inadequate. >> There's only one at Henzel and there's two of Okay. >> Yeah, >> there

092were two and two, aren't you? >> All over. Um, there were two BTS, two at each school, but again, we've been peeling back the humans a few a year until [clears throat] >> How many lunch monitors do you propose in that 47,000? >> Um, so I think the way that worked out was roughly like three people for two hours or two and a half hours I think the lunch waves take. Maybe it's one and a half to two hours at Pearson and three people for it's closer to like an hour and 15 minutes at Hinsdale because the little ones don't eat in the lunchroom. >> What do we have now? >> None, right? >> None. Our social workers, our BTS. >> So, are the lunch waves staggered such that the three can rotate? >> It

093would be the same three people throughout. So, there would be >> going there. >> Oh, no. Not across the two buildings. >> Oh, no. >> So, these are protein people. They're not benefits eligible. This is >> Is it possible to stagger your lunch wave so that these monitors go from one building to the next in a period of a day? >> No. Plus, they would then probably be more than halfime and we would be required to offer benefits. Okay. >> Our school days are only staggered by 15 minutes. >> So, if one school had to have lunch before the other, one of them would be either having brunch or liner. >> So, the lunch monitor, that's a non-certified position, right? >> Oh, yes. by hour. >> Hey, uh, Joseph, non-certified position. You, uh, >> we

094can get in the finer details of that later. >> No, I was saying, [laughter] did you want to donate? Did you want to donate some time, you know, for the launch? >> No, I was thinking, could you use parents? >> Could you seriously seriously? >> But that's kind of unreliable. I mean, >> yeah, >> they still haven't fingerprinted and on boarded and >> it's work. Listen, I I'll tell you this. I think if you get parents in there, they're not going to stay long. >> [laughter] >> It's not an easy job. >> An unsupervised environment. >> Well, they're the supervisor. I mean, you don't think the opposite? >> Oh, no, no, no, no, no. You You're not controlling though, though. That >> Can I invite you, Frank? Let's do it together tomorrow. >> Well, try

095it. I'll try I'll try something. I >> I do take her up on that, >> I think. And I invite anyone else who wants to come hang out for a couple hours one day. Lunch room, hallways, anywhere. Frank, when you were in school and a principal came in to observe, >> were you like >> on your best behavior? >> Okay. >> Times have changed. >> These kids >> Well, that's why I'm thinking No, that's my thinking is if they see parents the >> it would just work the opposite. >> Keep in mind 45 I think percent of our employees actually live here in town. Oh, right. >> They already are our parents. Um >> it's not helping. Um, you know, when when we had our board meeting Tuesday night and we had all the kids

096in the room, half of their parents already work for us. >> I recogn I was like, "Oop, there's one. Oop, there's one. Oop, there's one. There are our employees now." >> I thought it would just react the opposite. >> It's You would You would think based on how you grew up, >> Nope. >> They don't care. >> Sometimes they are changing. I want us to be aware that while we banter about behavior and so forth in a humorous way, we are dealing with families that are in need. I want us to be mindful and sympathetic to persons that may or may not have resources >> that some of us have been blessed with. So, um, you know, I I really want to get um, you know, I I really want to get analytical about this

097in a way that is fair to the people that are watching because we're also talking about careers and, um, I I think it's important we focus on really what we be feasible. So, focus on really what we be feasible. For example, the board certified BCBA could help work with the behavior techs who then can work with a whole host of issues inside school which could shift your curriculture which then might not necessarily make lunch monitors so essential. They are essential now. But the trickle down effect, you know, I'd like to talk about that. Um, I'd like to know whether or not if we were to cut lunch monitors right now, whether or not if we kept the BCBA and behavior tax, would that in your estimation have a cultural shift such that if we were

098to take out the 47,000 for lunch monitors, we would be okay in the long run. I just thought what your thoughts are that. >> So, I'm going to answer you two ways. The reason we added the lunch monitors isn't actually about behavior. It's because the academic interventionists and the BTS are the people supervising lunch. >> And so having the lunch monitors means we could be doing better intervention which arguably prevents special education identification. >> So it's sort of running up a different ladder, >> right? >> That said, um if it got the board to a place where you could be comfortable, I would say to you take off the $9,000 Gilbert adjustment. take out the lunch monitors. You know, on on all of these two pages, that is the one thing that I'll say to

099you. As seriously important as it is, that's my one that's my give. Um, and I'm not being fresh or facitious. It that is important, but it is the only thing on the entire list that I won't feel disingenuous saying to you, go ahead. >> So, that has an effect on kids. How about they all do, right? um the custodial request. Can you run us through that again because >> um maybe that's an area >> I I know but again I'm thinking about if we adjust here it might have the trickle down effect there. Can you run us through again the custodial staff and >> Sure. Nancy do you want to address that one? >> Right now we are short custodial staff at Pearson school. >> Okay. >> We have three custodians that handle a $15,000

100building. 105,000 square foot building. Don't worry about it. >> Anyway, 105,000 square feet and the morning uh the early shift custodian spends uh all the lunch periods handling the garbage uh continuously taking it out and cleaning up the tables because the lunch waves are one right on top of another. So they don't have their full shift to even go to the building. Even 30,000 square feet per worker if it was just cleaning a building would be very difficult to do and it is clearly way beyond that. So we are quite hampered at Pearson which is why I pushed for this >> part. In our climate survey, students reported feeling negative feelings about their school because of cleanliness. >> It is, I mean, a real issue. >> So, while we analyze all these positions, um, you

101put them there for a reason. I think we should scrutinize every dollar, but in order to actually because we're looking at a $2.5 million increase, we need something that moves the needle and the uncomfortable slashfallout. The only thing that I've heard tonight that was like a viable and while this is like this is very important and again there may be shock waves that uh go afterwards but that that fourth option which was like a real dollar amount instead of right and again like you said we can scrutinize every dollar and that is what we're here to do but if we look at that large of an increase I think that doesn't stand a chance of being well I I won't say I'm not going to say or speak for others but it's going to be

102very hard pressed and while I understand that's not our job to necessarily you know to to give forth the best product that's the one thing that I've seen or heard tonight that I I said again I don't know because that's that's not my area of expertise but if that was a real or viable option again there is other pieces there's other ripples that's but that is something real and viable and if it was a actual solution >> again I know that's not an easy >> I'm perfectly fine with the idea >> my worry is that if this boat board were to vote tonight to reduce our budget by 1 point um >> so so >> whatever million dollars Um, and to bring back seventh grade, that's great, unless something doesn't work in the seventh grade

103idea, in which case you've just approved a budget that will not open our doors. >> So, I'm just stating from my standpoint, like we haven't voted. I'm not trying to push or say anything. I'm not going to pass the budget as is from my own standpoint, whether right or wrong. Um, but that was a viable option. That seemed like the biggest needle mover. Um, so I would be interested to know because we're here to have the discussion about about that and what does that actually what does that actually look like? So if we explored that option further because again that was put together and you're like this is the only one that I could see being a viable option. You know again exploring that further what is the realistic nature? Is that a realistic is

104that is that something that could realistically be done without a extreme fallout right and when I say extreme fallout is that like does it actually work because if it doesn't work then it's not a >> actual certainly >> and I think it cuts the budget going forward because if we've got the seventh grade I mean right right that cuts the budget in half right and then going forward we have control of the seventh grade now so are we we keep more of our money and is it a long-term solution ution going forward because then our budget isn't going to increase as much because we're not paying Gilbert that extra money. I mean, is it something I think I agree with Shane. I think it's something we really should explore 100%. >> I I'll say this.

105If if we keep the positions that we were looking >> and you keep everything else and you get the and you get the >> right um I think we'd be close to being fully staffed at this point. So, next year we wouldn't be looking adding more moving forward, right? >> Um I also think that uh >> until the insurance and the transportation goes up again. >> Well, no. I also think the insurance it will I think we're at I think we're priced appropriately now in insurance where we weren't um which is why we saw the big increase. So I don't see us having a big increase in insurance next year like we did. So having our budget start off with a huge deficit as we had this year. So yeah, I think next year um

106while difficult, it won't be as difficult as we've had in the last two years. Um and yeah, this is hard to remember. >> I think it I think yeah, >> I'm going to look back. >> Listen, you can time stamp it, too. Um but I think also I mean it was not a solution I was looking at. Um, but uh if if we want to if we want to um I'm not saying vote on that tonight, but I think it gives Julian more time to to kind of a little bit more >> um and then we um come back. So, if that's if that's what we want to do, what we'll have to do is withdraw the current motion that's on the table. Um and then we might have to Another motion for Julie to

107explore scenario four. Um, and then we'll have to meet again. [snorts] >> Can I say something? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> What I like about the plan with the seventh grade is it's part of our long-term capital plan, a long-term plan. >> That's insane. >> It's something moving forward to solidify what we try to do is make things better each year. I mean, what we always talk about a one-year budget, but we should also be thinking about how that progresses to year two, three, and four. >> So, by year four that we have our I mean, I'm on here for four years, you're on two years, but at that time that we're better off than the day we started. That's what I'm trying to say. So, if this works, if this can work, we can make

108this work and we can get a foothold in the budget, then that's the way to go. Prior to my tenure on the board, the previous board of ed before receiverhip had voted to allow seventh and eighth to go to Gilbert. Teachers moved up to Gilbert. So the inverse is what you're talking about. Perhaps Gilbert teachers move down, but they have to have new new employment, new employment >> if they choose to, >> right? Um but I think it's important that we you're also aware and I need to speak about this is that while we may it's an option take back seventh grade without cost controls Gilbert can still give us a budget or a bill >> that may or may not because they still have to open a building. the way the way he explained

109it, he goes by who's who's where on October 1st. He said even with PA uh his his u European or international students if they apply if they're if he has an admission statement from them for October 1st, they're there. They're there for the year. So, this would have to be done by October 1st. >> You just may not realize the savings you're anticipating because the building at Gilbert still needs to open. Um and >> is that something you can explore with him? >> I can I would say the endowedmies and we've checked tuition is a per pupil construct. Gilbert has approved a budget. They have published a per pupil spending of 24,226 >> which is the tuition which under statute they set tuition and then we tell them how many kiddos we're sending. We told

110them our enrollment numbers. We've not committed and don't have a contract for how many students we're sending. If tuition is 24,000 and we're sending 76 less students, then the tuition should reflect that >> should. >> I hear your concerns, which is why I am not suggesting that we reduce our budget by 1.2 million tonight in anticipation. >> But, you know, I've spoken with our attorneys. I've researched the statute. I've researched how other endowedmies operate for tuition. It is ultimately tuition. The rate um I forget was it did you speak with Norwich free or Woodstock earlier today? >> One of them it was $21,000. >> Which one? >> What's that? >> Woodstock Academy. They charge $21,000. >> What is What is the What does that encompass? Does it like do they include how much it costs

111for heat, electricity? Because that's that's I think where Nora is going because it still costs money to run that building, >> right? You're still paying uh No, they I guess they don't pay taxes, right? But no, but but like the cost of running the building that's is that accumul is that in that $24,000 they take all their costs and then divide it. >> So again, much like the discussion earlier where we were talking about ECS and I said we're just different because our relationship is onetoone >> typically. Well, typically of the other two endowedmies, they serve many towns and so they take their budget and they figure out how much they need to bring in. They have some sense of how many students they'll have. Um I recall um Norwich Free when I spoke to

112them talked about, you know, some of their um international funds, some of their endowment funds take on like some capital projects. That's how they do cool things like at a library or something. But that they figure out what they need to charge per student which Gilbert has told us is 24,000. >> But what does that include >> the cost of running the whole school? >> So So it would include electric heat. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> So their 21,000 would not include transportation as Gilbert's does not include transportation. We pay for that outside of >> because we pay that already, >> right? And if you were to send a student to Woodstock Free Academy, if you're the superintendent of the sending town, I'm sure that they get an upcharge for students who have special education

113needs. We don't get an upcharge because we already staff the special education. So, it is very comparable. >> You would just have to make sure that you're in agreement of the per pupil cost. Mhm. >> So we have a motion, right? Uh >> delete that emotion, right? >> Well, we don't delete anything. We can >> you can withdraw vote on a motion. >> You vote against originalists can withdraw. >> Are you comfortable with with moving forward with what we're talking about right now? >> Yes, I will withdraw my motion. Okay. Thank you. >> So we can investigate further. >> Okay. >> So motion is officially withdrawn. So, as far as moving forward, are we do we need to make a motion or anything to explore the option of >> the fourth option? I guess for

114lack of better term. >> Yes. >> Do we need a motion for that? >> Are we voting on that or we just >> What do you need? What do you need as direction to move forward? >> I am clear with the direction that you're asking me to come back to our next budget workshop with more information. So speaking to that um we in discussion of not knowing whether we'd have another meeting um next Tuesday there is no school >> um >> oh >> not >> well I think it's more or less how much time you need >> in relative time >> do you want to do Thursday or do you think we could >> possibly do Tuesday with not making said telling them they don't have to come I don't think I could have answers

115for you by Tuesday because if Mike Susie and Holly leave it open, you may need a Gilbert board meeting, right? >> I don't think this is as simple as, >> "Hey, Mike, I'm deducting 1.8." And he's going to say, "No problem, Julie." >> Um, I can't be a little more contentious [laughter] than that. >> I almost am certain that you all will have a [snorts] meeting next Wednesday. >> That's right. We have a monthly meeting. We have our general we have a general meeting >> for Gilbert school. >> Not not talk about budget talk just the monthly pleased and surprised if the response >> but we will not mention anything. >> We will not mention anything about this. >> Oh they know. >> Oh you [laughter] watching Frank they're on TV. >> I'm sorry >>

116everybody. You have a regular meeting on the 18th. >> Yeah. Right. >> So we would meet Thursday. >> You you comfortable with that? >> Um let me say this. If we get to Thursday and I have nothing to say to you, um I'll let you know that. I mean, we may >> have to proceed >> without a resolution of that and continue to work on it. >> Okay. >> Um you might have to pass the budget absent that plan, but I will do everything I can to pin it down before then. >> We should have a meeting. I mean, I've pinned down my part of figuring out the costs that would be associated with, you know, four content area teachers, English, math, science, social studies, world language, a special education teacher, um, some furniture because

117we have some classrooms that have almost nothing in them and we don't have storage anywhere. So, we would need some furniture, we would need a math book, we would need the language arts program, but those costs are under $500,000. So, I have my piece of it. But >> so as long as the room is open for >> Yes. >> 6 o' >> Thursday the 19th. Is there somewhere Tiffany where they publish the meeting room availability? Would it be on the door? Maybe Nancy would do that. >> Oh, I see what you >> No, not next week. >> Next Thursday. >> Does the sign on the door? >> Next Thursday. No, next Thursday is the third Thursday. It's wetlands. What lands at 7 o'clock uses this room on the third Thursday? >> Yeah, I feel like

118we might >> Are they the ones that went across the hall last week for us? >> Yes. >> Order select. >> All right, let's say 10 before we leave here, we'll say 6 o'clock Thursday the 19th here. >> But that's what l >> we will >> Oh, six o'clock. >> Six o'clock. But we will also see if they can move their meeting >> across the hall because technically we have >> You have jurisdiction behind this. >> Yeah. >> Uh, one more thing. The pickup truck. >> Did you get one? >> No. No. Wait a minute. [laughter] No. I'm just saying at the selectman meeting a couple of months ago, the work that the gas company's doing on Main Street, they the town has an agreement with them for the police. They get they get a

119fee for the the hours the police work. So what they did so far with the construction is the money that came into the town, the town purchased through the police department a cruiser. >> That rings the bell, >> right? So now if they're going to finish the job, I guess this spring, whatever money they get from that, maybe we can work out a deal with the town manager for a pickup truck to the town to the town to the state contract. >> Love it. use the money that to the board of education >> for that >> that's currently in our capital plan. So that would reduce our capital plan by a little bit. >> See it's good going to meetings. See >> I already have >> No, but I mean that's what they did because

120everybody thinks oh the police sitting out there building up their pension. They're not. They're getting paid. The money's coming to the town and they're using the money for certain things. So what they did was they made a proposal to buy. So if they're going to finish the job, there'll be more hours to the town. >> If we could work something out, >> I will bring it up in my next meeting with Paul. Try and get on the wish list. >> So you just need a straight pickup truck. >> A pickup truck that could put a plow in the sand thing. So probably F250 something. Well, the state has requirements. The state has requirements. You paid on who clients you want. >> Excellent. Unless you know somebody who wants to make a donation unless you got

121somebody who wants to make a a monetary donation. >> Okay. So motion was um withdrawn. There's no more motions to deal with. >> Y >> we've set a new meeting. >> We have public comments obviously. >> We're meeting next. >> Well, I still got to announce it, right? >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Offer it. >> All right. We're going to move on to item four, public comment. Um >> Okay. The Winchester Board of Education, while soon to its business meeting, there are two opportunities set aside to hear comments to the public. We welcome encourage public participation as value part of communicating input for the W of education. We appreciate your following. Please requested information on signing sheet. If you wish to speak, state your name and address when call upon to speak. It will

122be allotted three minutes to share your comments. Please be advised that it is not the practice of the board of education to engage in dialogue regarding commentary. The superintendent of schools will be directed by the chairperson to prepare an appropriate response in a timely manner. We appreciate your time and thoughtful commentary. Would anyone wish to speak? Would anyone wish to speak? [snorts] Seeing none, move on to item five. Would anyone like to make a motion to adjurnn? >> I will make that motion. >> Frank will make the motion. >> I will second it. >> Let's give it to Carol. Carol. >> All in favor? All right. Thank you guys. Thank you. >> Thank you all. >> Thank you, Julie. I love I You get a A+. Thank you. Windows.