001Start your engines. Stand by. All right. Good evening everyone. Welcome to the Winchester Public Schools Board of Education special meeting budget workshop for February 12th, 2026. I'd like to do a call to order. Pledge of Allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. Um, roll call. Joseph Santoro, >> Chrissy Rylander, >> Frank Oliver, >> Shane Sancho, >> Kurt Warner, >> Julie, >> Nora Mccurski, >> Elanor Bishop, Carol. >> All right, on to item two, public comment. The Winchester Board of Education policy um regulations for public participation at board of ed meetings. Uh, the Winchester Board of Education welcomes you to its business meeting. There are two opportunities
002set aside to hear comments from the public. We welcome and encourage public participation as a valued part of communicating input with the Winchester Board of Education. We appreciate your adherence to the following. Complete the requested information in the signing sheet if you wish to speak. Name, address, and email. State your name and address when called upon to speak. You will be allotted three minutes to share your comments. Please be advised that it is not the practice of the board of education to engage in dialogue regarding commentary. The superintendent of schools will be directed by the chairperson to prepare an appropriate response in a timely manner. We appreciate your time and thoughtful commentary. Does anyone wish to speak? Seeing that there's no audience members um I we can move on to item three action items. Um
00327 budget review discussion possible action >> action is just >> oh I have the wrong one. Okay. >> All right. >> Budget review and discussion. >> Super. Um, first things first, if you would all do me the favor, please, of going to your budget book and open to page 19 and rip it out. I found a typo. I'm going to come trade you an old one for a new one. The new ones are hole punch so you can Right in the challenge here. And admin folks, I have extras for you guys as well. Trade those in the morning if you want. Okay, super. That's one thing out of the way. Okay, next order of business. Um, there were just a few questions that came in um that I can address for you. Let me keep
004a copy off the top and then send a few. So, I will share one piece of paper that has the questions as well as the answers. Um, I'll wait till everyone has it and then I'll talk you through it. Um, and there's extras here if you guys want as well. Oh yeah. >> And it really doesn't do you any good because it's so tiny, but it is on the screens as well. So, uh, one question that I was asked was what does the budget look like when rather than having it, um, the way I had it in the booklet, which was TG, um, WPS, Gilbert, out of district special ed, and out of district choice. What does it look like when you take the out of district kiddos and distribute them across grade or age
005bands? So, this is the same information you'll see that total budget number. I think it's $1 off, which is a rounding thing. All of these um come out of spreadsheets that Nancy has like bazillions of places of the decimals. So, sometimes with a number this big, it'll be off by $1, but it's actually off by less than a dollar. Um, but what you'll see here is our costs preK6, our cost 712, and our costs for our 18 to 22 folks. the enrollment numbers are there. Um and then the number of students represented um within the numbers up top for out of district special education costs including their tuition and their transportation on the two different lines and um out of district choice students. We have one elementary student in a magnet school somewhere about third
006gradeish and then 10 students um between Oliver Wala Explorations and Region 7 High School. So that is the answer to that question. That's what it looks like when you split it that way. So the transportation the the 1 million there that's 1,94,000 >> that's a combination of the regular ed um you know daily transportation. So that includes our regular bus run for 712 and then it includes the special education transportation for kids um who are going other places. >> Okay. Okay. And then the tuition >> and I'll just complement that by saying we don't provide transportation for the outofd district choice placements. >> Right. Like um >> or we don't and we're not charged for it. I would say we do actually transport to region 7 through the good graces of our bus company. The
007kids all sort of collect in one spot and then get run over there. If you say that not well with a bus company that's bad. They don't get run over then they get a quick ride over. Um sorry. But for kids who go to like outof district magnet schools, we don't provide transportation. Some districts do and some of us do not. So the tuition line is that also regular ed >> and special ed out placement. >> That tuition number is general education. So that's the Gilbert tuition. That's the special education tuition and that's the choice tuition for students who would attend Gilbert if not for choosing Explo or Region 7 or Oliver >> Wilk because again that's not a Gilbert line per se. It's kids in that grade band. >> And what would other be
008in preK through six? >> That is everything else in our budget. So, it's the uh contracted services, it's supplies. >> Okay. >> Um >> like Yeah, literally everything else, >> right? So, it's everything else is $400,000 >> of the 12,500. >> So, like lawyer's fees and the like. >> Yep. lawyers fees, um, >> supplies, technology, equipment, um, all that. All of that, everything that isn't wages, benefits, transportation, or tuition, >> which as you can see is a relative small piece of the budget. >> So, I'll let you digest that. We can always revisit it tonight or at the next meeting on Thursday. >> Um the next question that I got um and I apologize I had it the question before the meeting our most recent prior meeting but it took a little bit to pull
009it together for you. I want to talk you through this. There were questions around um we talk a lot about like tiered behavior calls and the BTS and the BCBAS um social workers, administrators um going to classrooms to manage student behaviors. And I want to clarify a little bit what this is. So there is also a tier one that I didn't include because there's no data associated with it. It's just the behaviors that are handled in the classroom by a classroom teacher on a regular basis. Um, the other thing I want to say to you is we're using the word behavior. And I want to caution you, we're not using the word behavior like maybe you would think of with your own children. We're not talking naughty. We are talking Behaviors are a form of
010communication. So if a child is um frustrated and doesn't know how to express that and they throw something, we choose to look at that as a behavior that needs to be addressed. We need to understand it. That's really the role of a BCBA is to help us understand behaviors because once you understand the function of a behavior or its purpose then you can make a better plan for how to handle it. If a child uh gets frustrated by their work and misbehaves because they want to get booted so that they can avoid the difficult task. If we can study the behavior enough to realize that's what they're after, then we can make smart choices about never removing them from the task. whether we take them with us and the task but not rewarding that rewarding
011the communication in the sense that we have to recognize that something is causing the child to be upset but figuring out how we can be smarter about managing it. So I'll caution you with that that these behaviors are not naughty. They are actions of children that require us to address them. Um, and the other thing I would say to you, because if you're listening with one ear and skipping ahead to the numbers, much of the behavior, particularly when you look at that big number for Hinsdale Tier 2 last year, a lot of the behaviors are coming out of special programs, um, we have a handful of students who spend more of their time in specialized settings um because they are exhibiting more behaviors. And when you start to do the math and tell yourself we
012have 181 school days last year, and you look at those numbers, that's a lot of responses. Um, Pearson is easier math for me, right? That's about three tiered calls a day in the building. Um, if it's tier 2 and you have that list of sample behaviors, that's typically going to be responded to by a BT. If the BT is available, there's only one at Hinsdale. So when you're having 2,200 if we had 200 days in the school year, you know, that's a dozen a day. So one BT can't possibly be getting to all of those. Um, but we have one BT at Hinsdale. We have two social workers at Hinsdale. Um, the special education case manager is another potential person to respond for tier 2 behaviors. for tier three behaviors. Um, typically an administrator is
013along for that. And the other thing I would say to you is when we're responding to tier three behaviors, it's a team approach. It's very rare that only one person would be responding. Um, so when you think about the manpower required to keep up with this volume of behaviors, this is why the budget includes a second BCBA, one for each building with overflow into working at Gilbert as well and another BT so that there would be two in each building. Um, this is a big piece of what's going on for us right now. So, >> so just looking at this compared from last year to this year and we're looking Tier two Hinsdale to tier two this year at Hinsdale. Um that's roughly if you you know we're already halfway through the school year right
014now. >> Yes. Our number is significantly reduced. >> Yeah. So is that because we have a BCB a full-time BCBA in the district? >> I'm going to say that that is clearly a huge help with the behaviors. We also know that this big number in part could probably be linked back to a specific handful number of students, not all of whom are still in the school setting. >> Okay. >> Um some of, you know, depending on kids grades as they move up to Pearson, you may see shifts where those numbers are growing. >> Yeah. I mean, you see the tier three this year at Pearson is already more than >> right >> all last year. So, >> so quite possibly some kids have graduated from Hinsdale and moved to >> Pearson. Okay. And their behavior
015is ramped up a bit >> possibly. Um Okay. >> All right. So, right now, Hinsdale has one BT and two social workers. Pearson has one BT. >> Two BTs. >> Okay. >> Both schools have two social workers. >> One BT at Hinsdale, two at Pierce. We're currently at one BCBA to handle all three schools. >> All three schools. Yes. >> And that I feel like a BCBA is huge in learning about the behaviors and then creating the practices with staff to prevent those behaviors from >> right. >> Is that person the BCBA literally during the day going from school to school as needed? So probably the BCBA is planning their time for efficiencies and trying to be at one school on one day and yeah another school another day but sometimes things happen and the
016BCBA is going wherever the needs are. >> But I think that we try to smart schedule and it's based around PPTs if he's going to attend those. Mhm. >> So between the meetings, the observations of students, you know, before he can really understand a student and help create a plan for a student, he's doing the ride along. He's actually sort of playing the part of the BT and >> um he'll say, you know, I want to go spend some time in this classroom for a little bit and see what's going on and see what seems to help so that he can then help design the right program. >> Great. So the BCBA is a trainer trainer of teachers to work inside the classroom to help out with management of behavior. Am I right? >> Um
017so the BCBA one of the hats they wear is supporting teachers as well as the BTS in developing the plans and then supporting folks with how to implement them and how to um prevent behaviors, how to manage behaviors, what to do when behaviors escalate. So he is in part training staff. He is also um doing evaluations of students. He's also creating um behavioral plans for the students so that the staff knows those things he was training them on. >> And it's uh since it's tier two, it's not necessarily special ed, it's regular ed kids that are just behavior challenges. >> Um so his evaluations um are typically geared towards special education students. If we have a student who's exhibiting significant behaviors on a regular basis, we're probably going to PPT and considering whether or not
018that child has a disability that requires specialized instruction. >> Okay. The reason why I ask is you're asking for one more BCBA. I'm just trying to figure out the role because we'd have to answer this question. If a BCBA is there to tell PD, trained staff on how to deescalate and the like, once staff has that training, shouldn't the BCBA then move on, if you will, or evaluation? Isn't that a case manager's role? >> That is for the behaviors. So case managers do um the academic aspects of a psychoeducational evaluation. >> You know they do the reading assessments, math assessments and the like. A psychologist will do um things like a whisk to gain um learning styles and abilities. But the BCBA would do the evaluation around the behaviors and the purpose of the behaviors.
019I would say to you in a perfect world if we you know had a plethora of BCBAS running around and solving all the problems and training up all the humans in time you might need only one or part of one because every time there's a new student there's a new puzzle you know each child is their own Rubik's cube. So part of the work is doing the evaluations and figuring out the behaviors because no two kids are really the same on these things. In terms of management, classroom management, you know, typically a person, a teacher that's been more experienced has more tools in the toolbox to manage classroom behavior and that sort of thing and preventative sort of mechanisms and just different skills and strategies. Does the turnover that we experience because that's one of
020our board goals to reduce turnover have any effect on our need for the BCBA? >> I'm gonna answer that in two ways. One, certainly every time we hire new um inexperienced teachers, we will face challenges with that with all of the training that they haven't been here for. I will say to you that the kinds of behaviors that we're responding to are not the things when you think of a typical classroom environment, right? And the things we ask our teachers to create a very structured environment where they praise positive behaviors and um create relationships and structure so that all students can be successful. The BCBA might be supporting that a little bit, but the principles are doing that. Um, our coaches are doing that through our new teacher meetings. We're doing that. The work of
021the BCBA takes on behaviors that are really beyond the pale. These are not the behaviors that when we think about a classroom where a child is calling out, that's not this. The teacher can do all of the right things that a classroom teacher should do to create a nice structured calm environment with good relationships and still have students who are exhibiting behaviors that are coming out of places of trauma, coming out of places of mental health concerns that are beyond that which we think of as being typical classroom management. >> Okay? And I I think even the most veteran teachers now, these aren't the same behaviors as five years ago. These are these are beyond the behaviors that they experienced five years ago or 10 years ago. So these are new experiences even to the
022veteran teachers and how to handle it. And I feel like the lack of support like not having the right staff to help support the teachers is a factor in the turnover that we're probably seeing. >> Can I ask a question? Is this a small percentage of the students? In other words, repeating the same student repeating through the classes, through the program, through his years in school or is it a percentage of higher percentage of the student in each class? >> Um, so that's a good question. There are some students who are continually struggle with their behavior. We can sort of anticipate who they are. Um, and I would say that a lot of what we're responding to are repeated instances with the same, you know, this is not two students. This might be two students
023in every classroom, >> right? >> Um, but that is the more typical because again, we're talking about more extreme behaviors. I mean, there is lots of kids who say or do silly little things that need addressing. I was looking to see quickly if I could find my um favorite thing I recently read on this subject that I would love to share with you. Um if I don't find it now, I will forward it to you. Um it was such a wonderful quotation about what we expect from our teachers. I don't think I can find it quickly. What else could I say? >> You shared a quote with us last week, I think. Um, but the end, well, no, the first presentation. >> Rene, can I actually give you this to you? >> Do you know
024what I'm referring to? Maybe you'll find it while I move on. There's not that much on here. I'm looking for You know exactly what I'm looking for. Think of one of the words and search on it and we'll find it. Thank you. So, I'm going to come back with a quote, but I think Norah, it really sums up your question and my response about this isn't, you know, I'll use um any one of our veteran teachers. You know, we have a sixth grade team of teachers, none of whom are um shrinking violets or brand new to the profession. They're all tops A+ rock stars and the behaviors are happening in their classrooms. It's not for lack of structure. It's not for lack of relationships. It's not for lack of routines and expectations clear. >> Not
025for lack of curriculum. It could be because the curriculum is just out of reach for a student, but it's really based in specific students um what they're bringing to the table that is mental health and trauma beyond what we typically think of as classroom management stuff. >> The um what's the role of the vice principal then in relation to the BCBA? So with the tier three calls, when an administrator is responding between the principal or the assistant principal who's ne ever not um in a PPT or in a classroom doing an observation or in a parent meeting is responding to that call. >> Does the vice principal respond more to these calls than the principal? Would you say? >> I'm going to say it probably varies by school. For example, at Hinsdale, um the principal
026and assistant principal largely split their responsibilities by grade levels. So, I think to the extent that um the behavior call is in a grade level that they oversee, they're responding. >> Um and at Pearson, I think it's triage. I think whoever can get there, whoever's closest by, um whoever already knows when they make the call, it's usually they get called to a specific classroom and they may share an initial. So, if one administrator is working more closely with a student and a family, they may go. Um, but between the two of them, there's more than they could even do. I mean, there's often more than two happening at one time. Okay. Um, the other question that I received in advance of this meeting was about our numbers for preschool. Um, Carol, your question. So we
027currently have 51 students rostered um 40 general education and 11 special education. That will soon shift to um 38 and 13. We believe we have two students who are being evaluated and then we have a couple of other students who are identified and not yet registered coming in. So I just I mean again I'm new at this prek thing and so when we talked about this last week you said by law we're required to offer prek to special ed kids. We have to provide an appropriate program >> for special ed kids, >> right? >> Not for any preschool. >> We have to provide services in the least restrictive environment >> for special ed, >> right? And in order for it to be least restrictive, they need typical peers. So the model across probably every Connecticut
028school district is to at a minimum have um 2:1 or one to one ratio of identified students and not ident. And then we have 40 kids that in prek that don't need special ed. >> So are you proposing don't offer preschool except >> I mean we've got a $2.8 8 million budget. Okay. That R 2.5 that you're asking for. And again, we're required to do certain things by law. Correct. So, we're not required to do this by law, but we're So, it's extra money that we're spending. Like, again, if I had a prek kid, yeah, my kids went to nursery school, but I paid for it. They didn't go to pre-K. They went to nursery school. But >> I mean, so I just feel like, you know, you're you've got 40. So, how many classrooms
029does that constitute? and how many teachers and how much more extra does those 40 kids cost us and something that we're not required to do. >> So again, we are partly required to do the special ed, >> right? >> No, hold please. So we have to provide an appropriate program for the special education students and the program that we provide is a typical preschool setting has to have a 50% or better ratio of regular education to special education. So, with 11 special education students, let's work with these actual numbers, >> okay? >> We wouldn't put 22 children in a preschool, >> right? >> There's no one who would tell you that's a good idea. >> So, we would at a bare minimum, we would need to split them in half into two separate classrooms and
030then fill the remaining seats in that classroom with typical peers. So at a minimum in order to serve 11 students we would need two classrooms each with a teacher and an assistant and that would fulfill our obligation. We c and they are for children who are three four and some of them five years old. So currently we have a full day program that we're offering the older students and a half day program that we offer the younger students. So, we have three teachers, which gets us up to as many as 64 seats. If we wanted to do the bare minimum that we had to do, we would still need two classrooms. So, if we as a group of leaders in this district said, "Pish, we don't need preschool or we prioritize it less." >> Um,
031then we could probably go down one section to meet the needs of the kids. um that would have resulting domino effect. >> But then if the program that you're proposing goes through then there will be seats for those other kids. >> That's about three years out though. >> Okay. But well there'll be a lapse of a couple years but >> so a couple things come to mind. One is the um capacity within the district. We are considered a um uh childcare desert is the term the state uses. So if we were to close down seats, there's not necessarily other seats in the community prepared to pick those kids up. So they um we may be putting families in a lurch of not having somewhere to send their kids. But the other piece that I would
032say to you is this provides the opportunity for us to work with children and get them ready so that come kindergarten they are prepared to enter the required program and be successful. If they don't start till kindergarten where we start moving heavily into phonics, phenemic awareness, math and you know serious content. If they have not had any preschool experience, they are going to struggle. If they struggle, they're going to be frustrated. >> So, when did we start the pre-K program? >> When was it started? >> Forever ago, probably. Nancy, how long ago did we start offering preschool? Well, >> 15 years more. >> I think every Connecticut district does. >> It's not. >> Have you have Have you noticed an improvement in the kids? Like, does that theory work? >> I'm just asking. >> So,
033when we have children who enter our kindergarten having not attended preschool anywhere, they are often at a deficit. They don't. >> But do they catch up eventually? >> Eventually. So, by sixth grade, there's some interesting data floating around. I think you and I actually chatted or texted >> that actually proved the opposite >> that by sixth grade the kids but it wasn't the absence of school it was a play-based preschool versus a rigorous >> went to a pre a pre but my kids went to a >> playbased school >> right and so we are very aware of that research and we are working really hard on NYAK accreditation and making sure that our preschool gets kids school ready without kill and drill we don't want worksheets >> you don't want them behind a ask five
034and a half hours a day. >> Exactly. >> But when they come into kindergarten, if they haven't had any school experience yet, and I know when I first started here, I remember there was a student that just was not school ready. They had not had a school experience and was going to an outplacement in kindergarten because they were frustrated. They didn't understand. They didn't know how to do the school thing. Sit, listen, keep your hands to yourself, the things that we teach in the early years. and they were acting out, they were hitting peers and they ended up in an outplacement. One of the things we know statistically is once a child goes into a placement, they're far more likely to end up staying there. >> And that means we are paying for them in
035a outofd district placement, which you see the numbers on >> for 13 years. So, we believe and I'm sure that there's data to support this that I can get from my team that while the preschool one teacher of it could be considered um optional, we think the payoff comes in what it saves us on the other side of kids who can't fit into the box in K1 and two and end up in an outplacement. If one child ends up in an outplacement, you just spent more than you did on the preschool teacher >> right there. One child. >> Well, I just looked at the transportation, >> right? So, if even one child >> ridiculous, >> can't cut it in kindergarten without sort of some leadup time in preschool. You've already cost money instead of saved
036money. >> Um, speaking of costs of of prek, is there any cost to the parents >> currently? No. >> So, there's no cost to parents and in a district that needs free child care basically for a lot of families. Um it's a it's a nec a necessary program uh for the demog demographic of our families. Um, now if we look to expand on this, right, we we could do we could charge a fee to some families as it expands and there's more seats district. >> No, >> we could charge it on a sliding scale of affordability. >> So it could be it could provide some income to our district. So, but the goal is in the end if this project goes through to have six classrooms. >> Is that the goal? >> Um, >> Three
037additional. So, seven actually in total because by building three, we can steal a classroom at Hinsdale and get seven rooms. So, it would be six for the one um for the four-year-olds essentially and then one more class for three. >> Enough kids to fill those slots? >> I think we would. Yeah. And how many are in each classroom in the kindergarten? >> I mean, sorry, prek and prek. >> Currently, it's the maximum that we go to is 16. >> I personally think 14 is more than enough. I think if anybody >> the state requires what's the maximum do they set the >> I know we just went through this as a district that sets up. >> Right. I I'm sure there is a limit at some point, but we're not at I'm trying to think.
038I'm just asking because now you're talking seven classrooms with 16 kids and now what happens to the first grade because we have three or four classes for the first I mean for the kindergarten there's still only the same number of kids in town that live in town. >> That's what I'm saying. So okay because you're because the classroom size or kindergarten was 16. >> So if we were doing it right, which would allow us to limit behaviors and make a better experience, we would cap it at 14. 6* 14 is 84. Our typical grade levels are about 80 kids. >> And how many kindergarten classes do you have? >> We have four sections. >> So, how are you going to take the seven and combine them into four, I guess, is the question. >> So,
039six again at the grade level. The seventh is the seventh class is a different grade level, if you will. >> Okay. Got it. All right. >> And if we actually had 84 kids in a grade level, which we thought we were going to last year, we would need a fifth kindergarten. We would need a fifth everything. Um, >> yeah, because they're moving up, >> right? Which we have a bubble class going through right now. Again, our number bobbles anywhere between 70 and 80 typically. So, >> okay. >> Because I think you're >> doing the preschool will not add children to the >> Okay. >> to the grade level. I mean, either they're here or they're not. >> So, you put more you would put more kids one or two maybe extra in the kindergarten classes.
040Not the pre-K. The pre-K there's less kids. you would combine a couple more and then go to the four prek pre kindergarten classes we have now. >> So, anything above 18 in a kindergarten class, >> you need a new one. >> Well, not necessarily. >> You have to pay more. we 18 19 you know last year when we were looking at a number that was above 80 the conversation was would we rather have 20 kids in a class with a teacher and a pareducator or a kindergarten assistant I should say an assistant teacher or would you rather have >> um what's 82 divided by five 16 kiddos in a class with just the teacher and um the feeling of the staff was they would rather have the two adults in a slightly larger class. >>
041So, at that point, we would probably still stuff them in >> till about 20. >> Okay. >> So, those were the questions that you sent. Renee, any luck finding that quote? >> Oh, you know what? I had it on my phone, that's why. >> Okay, I'll take one quick second. Um, and I >> while she's searching, are there any other new questions that haven't been asked? that were >> I just have one. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> Go back to page one. >> One. Yes. >> Okay. >> Where we have this total breakout. >> Well, page 13, I'm sorry. Page 13. I'm sorry. >> Yep. >> Okay. A number of years ago, um, M. Perez was our mayor and at the same budget hearings in May came up to, I think it was $19 million
042for the total budget for the school, but that the ECS was like 14,000. I'm 7,000. So, it brought it down to 14 million. I'm sorry, 7 million down to 14 million. that was what the taxpayer was going to be paying. So if we look on page 13, we're back to ECS of 787,823,000 and it brings it all. You subtract that from the 275, we're down to 197 >> to the text. >> Is that what's going to be on the ballot or the 27 is going to be on the ballot? >> Well, we have to go to the select men. The selectman. >> No, no, no. What I'm saying is what are we presenting to the the end. You're asking what number goes on for the for the for the vote is what you're asking. >>
043So none of our numbers will be on >> No, no, no. What I'm just saying is >> to the board of selectmen we present the 26 550 562. >> Why aren't we getting credit for the 77,800,000? >> Well, that's why this page is in our budget to illustrate that money will be shown in the town budget as revenue to the town. >> Why not revenue to the board? That's the way it's structured at the state level. I mean, our town understands that that money comes into the town to defay the cost of education, >> but the taxpayer isn't getting it. >> No, it is defraying the taxes though because in the absence of ECS, it would still cost us the 26550 to educate kids and all of that would be burdensome on the taxpayer versus
044the >> 19. But if I'm going to try to sell the budget to a taxpayer, >> and I appreciate that you are. Thank you. >> I I could sell it much better at 19 million. >> And you can explain >> the 27 million and leave the town out of it. >> Exactly. >> Yes. And you should explain it exactly that way. >> That is >> it costs, you know, if you go somewhere on here, there's even a bigger number probably where we incorporate even what we spend through grants and everything. Probably costs the better part of $30,000 to run this corporation, if you will. But the cost to the taxpayer is the 19 million number, >> right? So that's what should be on the referendum. >> That's the number we should be presenting to the
045referendum. >> One line in the town budget. >> It's the marketing >> that the par the community needs to be aware, the taxpayer needs to be aware that the 19 million is is the ask. >> So that's our job. >> But it's like getting your credit. It's like getting your credit card bill and it says if you pay the full amount, it's this. if you pay this and I don't have the the seven million. Somebody else is going to take care of that other charge on my card. >> Yes. >> Be nice. >> I'm gonna just quickly share that quote while I have it handy before too many more folks come in. Um this is just someone who writes about education. We don't have >> gets the benefit. I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> I'm sorry.
046I just I see a lot of kids and I want to hit this before there's too many. We don't have a classroom management problem. We have a youth mental health crisis that teachers are being asked to handle. Somehow classroom management has turned into deescalating trauma, supporting anxiety and depression, calming panic attacks, being the counselor, social worker, and crisis team, carrying emotional loads no one sees. Teachers aren't trained for that and shouldn't have to be. Classroom management is about relationships, structure, routines, connection. It was never meant to replace a national mental health system. And until we stop offloading every societal failure onto schools, teachers will keep drowning under expectations no human can meet. And I was so struck by that and immediately thought of it with your question, Nora, because I would never want someone to
047think that the behavior data I shared is a failure on the part of our teachers. Our teachers create caring environments with structure and routines and positive reinforcement and relationships and care and all of the things you would want in a classroom. And even with all that, some students are not okay. >> And teachers are there to teach. Period. They're not there to be social workers. >> Well, I take a little bit of that. >> They're not supposed to be. Let's put that. >> It's a social responsibility. I mean, social purpose is to teach the children. >> Yes. what they got to know the children create. I'm not saying receptive and have issues. >> That's what's costing this. >> All right, let's go back to >> question. Go ahead. >> 7 million. >> Yeah. >> Why
048isn't our benefit that it comes off the line of the 27 million to say here because of what the benefits we get from the state, this is our bottom line budget. >> So, we can say that >> all we want. We should say that. Um, it's really just a function of accounting and bookkeeping where it gets shown. >> I would say to you the town manager who publishes the budget to the board of selectmen would be um >> furious. >> No, I would say well he's going to kick me for sending you to him. But nonetheless, the reality is there is a credit to the town and it's shown in the budget, right? And no one denies the fact that the reason we get that money is to offset the cost of education. If there
049were a way for him to just deduct that off our ask, it sure would be an easier conversation. >> All we have to do is transfer the budget line. >> I I think that you know the budget is structured the way it is and it falls to us to continue to say that in every interaction about the budget. So our responsibility is once we do approve a budget, that number is the number that we're going to sell to the public. So when you have conversations and we put it out there, that's the number we're selling. This is what our cost is. >> Yeah. >> Such a bargain. >> It costs all this, but this is all we're asking the taxpayer, right? >> I agree. No, that's what I heard years ago. >> It's always been
050that. But >> no, that's what I'm saying. >> You know, it used to be 16 million. Now, >> but I'm just saying is but >> yeah, >> I didn't understand then. That was four years ago when I first came here. >> Julie, is the town support for education 727 is that firm? >> No, absolutely not. >> I think so. Okay. >> That's what we are submitting as part of this budget. >> Um >> with optimism and >> manners and presuming that that this >> we're not presuming anything. We're just putting it there because it's what we asked. >> Um, one thing I brought that I did want to share, um, this dainty little document. Frank, this I think was inspired by you. Um, is this is one document. I didn't make copies because nobody in
051their right mind would want to review it. >> This is something put together um, by the attorneys actually to keep us all out of jail. >> This is a list of the state mandates. Each one of these, as you can see, is a statute reference and then a summary. This entire I would uh 60-page document. >> All the state >> are all of the unfunded mandates from the state of Connecticut. >> That's just the unfunded ones. >> I believe so. That's what we asked for. This may be all of the mandates. The reality is >> 60 pages. >> None of them are really funded. So, >> wow. Now that we got new windows in here, common sense would be let's open the window behind curt and just flip it out there. >> But this is,
052you know, >> that's why I hate regulations. Okay. >> Yeah, I know you do, but I thought this would give you a good giggle. >> Thank you. >> 60 pages. It has all the things about out of district for challenging behavior. Um Oh, yeah. We're supposed to have a library media person now that we don't have. um uh restorative practices uh professional development and evaluation committee inservice training climate committee. >> So let me ask a question. So all the teachers all these staff in they're all lawyers or becoming lawyers in >> who's that superintendent? No, all your staff, all your staff is becoming lawyers and as they progress up the line. >> I have to tell you when I speak with our attorney, she's so fun and she'll say to me, I'll say, I think
053this is what I'm supposed to. She's like, you're really thinking like a lawyer. You're doing a great job with that. Like our jobs now, you really do have to think like a lawyer. There is so much just what we must do. Everything from a flag to pesticides to pest management plan um to things that we have to teach um I mean it just goes on and on and on. >> State where's the money >> exactly? Well, that's why they talk about >> that's why we've asked for the ECS to give us more money over time. It's been flat for three years. It's just not keeping up. >> Cover the longer than three years. >> I'm sorry. Just >> No. So all those unfunded grants that are required, right? That's the ECS offsetting it. >> That's
054the payoff does. Yes, >> these are the um rules, all the statutes that we must follow where the state will come out with like last year, one of the new ones was you must have a curriculum committee and it must include your library media specialist who will blah but we don't actually have a library media specialist. So, according to the state now, in order to be compliant with that statute, we would have to have a position that we don't have. And that's the case in lots of different things. um they're not sending us money for any of that. The ECS money is also from the state, so they would probably appreciate your suggestion that they give us that and it covers this. But that money um is an equalizing formula that came out of um
055lawsuits of the past where they recognized that if the burden was too heavily on property tax, it would give so much advantage to wealthier communities and communities with less wealth could never fund schools. It was designed to be >> I think it's about 15 years probably at least going and it hasn't changed but it went from covering like 60% of a school's budget to now like 10% of a school's budget. I was just reading these numbers and because it never kept up with inflation, something we're familiar with, it went from being a big contributor to a very small contributor. Um, I've been doing a lot of research since I got here. I am trying to, um, get myself in front of the governor and anyone else who will listen to make an argument that our,
056um, ECS is not fully funded because of the endowed academy. The formula says for all the kids for whom you're responsible, you get this much and then it's increased this much because of your um, poverty rate and increased this much by your rate of English language learners. we're being calculated based on the K6 population and then separately we get like oh and we'll also give you this for your students who attend an endowed academy but that number doesn't get all those popups on it. So if it were calculated truly the way a typical K12 district is we would be getting about a million dollars more. So, I'm trying to make the case that that is an unfair dig, inequitable. Just because we don't have our own high school doesn't mean that we are not fully
057paying for every child's education and there's no reason it should be different. >> 9.7 million to Hubert to do that for us. So, >> right. >> Can we go to the handout that you passed out tonight, Dan? Just to be clear, the numbers changed. Um the first page BOE questions and answers. So grades 7 through 12 the per pupil expenditure is 31,000. PreK through six is 20,000. >> So what's different about this than the per pupil page in the budget book is that it rather than having kids who are out of district >> in their own column, they have now been placed in grade bands. >> Okay. And we pay for the out of district kids. Okay. So it's 31,000 to to Gilbert. >> Not to Gilbert. No. >> Oh, it's at special ed. >>
058It's 31,000 to educate the children who are in grades 7 through 12, >> including special ed. Special ed. Okay. >> Same with prek six. It's what it costs for Hinsdale Pearson and out of district in that grade band. >> Okay. So it was 28,000 last time, >> right? And when you layer in the >> it excluded >> on equally across all the grade bands. >> Got it. >> Um and just to clear up last week uh you had made a comment in the selectman meeting. They talked about us going from number 10 to number four. >> Yeah. >> Um we were actually went from number 11 to number four. >> Um and that and that was in relation to distressed communities. >> I have it right here. I printed it out from the state. >>
059Winchester went from number 11, I think. >> Yes. >> Um to number four in distress. So it has nothing to do with the ECS. >> No. No. But >> um but yes, then so the the town manager was saying we should get more money being that we're a distressed community. >> Um so he was trying to lobby for that. and Julie is also trying to >> and there's no more available grants um that we can go after seeing how we're you know this distressed and trying to cover our cost. >> Nancy, are there any rocks that you haven't looked under yet? >> I'll let you know. >> Okay. >> And then we are looking for rich uncles as well. >> Can I also say something? Um I know we'll probably have to wrap up soon.
060Um When is the next Gilbert uh budget meeting? Tomorrow. >> Tomorrow night. >> I mean, it's a big ask for the taxpayers, for us. It's a big ask of Gilbert. There's a huge increase. I thought I've been thinking, you know, would would the corp be willing to contribute equally from a capital reserve fund. I tried looking for financial information um for the Gilbert school like at end of the year like I couldn't find anything in the budget or on the website about how much they have in reserve right now. Um I know we have 440ish if we each contribute 200, you know, like something like that. I think that could fuel um a positive relationship uh between the the I was going to say districts, but I guess we are one district. Um would you
061be willing to bring that up? >> Yeah, I think if we're willing to tap into our 440 fund, which we'll call it now, >> no, >> because it's I mean it's it's just like >> I think I think it's not it's not a hard ask to ask them to also contribute unless you're >> that would be great >> the increase. So I think that that's something that we could definely that would be really helpful. I mean it's worth looking into no >> I mean obviously we don't want to touch ours but if we have to we have >> hopefully though next year the ECS money can be adjusted a bit and hopefully next year will not be as challenging. So we >> I don't know. I have it in my mind to like limp through
062a little bit. >> What what I'll say what I'll say we we're going to have to start moving these discussions forward. >> Yes. >> Um so talking about possibly seeing what you know what if we contributed whatever to from our 440 fund towards this budget what will that look like? So these are the questions I think on Thursday. >> Sure. >> We want to ask you. >> Okay. um >> or even before that because if if you know just to get an idea because the one thing I worry about that is if we're looking to add positions >> um and we're using some money from the 440 towards that that that's not something I mean it obviously will go something within the budget that won't >> create any more holes >> right so um >>
063but yeah I think I think those are the questions we're going to have to >> so we only have one more budget workshop Yes, >> we we will have as many as we need until we until we approve it, >> but it's due on the sixth. >> Yep. >> It's going to get Believe me, >> it's >> I feel like we haven't got I mean, we've got a lot of questions answered, but it hasn't got us to discuss, >> right? So, I think what I want you to start thinking about now is >> from here until Thursday, instead of asking questions to Julie, say, "What would it look like if we did this?" and then have her say, "Okay, th this is what we'll be if if you guys want to ask for particular cuts."
064>> That's time >> the time between tonight and Thursday, give that to Julie so she could come with those scenarios. >> Yeah. I just I just feel that presenting >> a $2.5 million increase to the stockman isn't going to float. >> It might not. >> Listen, we didn't think what we presented last year was going to float. >> Okay. Well, and it won by eight, so it wasn't overwhelming. >> Well, no, we didn't think it'd float this 11, >> but but I can tell you this year it's not going to float. >> I would like to say though that our job and the superintendent's job is to advocate for what's best for our students. Um certainly keeping increases in money in mind. Of course, who wants to pay more money? But we would not be
065doing our job as board of education members and a superintendent if we didn't say what our schools truly truly need. >> Okay. Then they're going to send it back. But I I mean again, we're wait fiscally responsible. >> Fourth most distressed town in the state. >> We need help from the state for sure. >> And we have a $2.5 million ask. I think that's I'm here for the kids too. >> Understanding the stress is a lot of people that don't a lot of people in this town don't own property >> but they also rent and then so the taxes go up and so their rent goes up and they just you know the scenario about economics. Okay. >> So th this is what I want us to start moving towards for Thursday. >> Um because
066you know I think these have been great questions. We had great discussions. Now we got to start giving Julie scenarios of what it will look like if we if we want to cut this or if we want to >> so we have the right to go through that budget and say what what if we got >> Absolutely. >> with the >> absolutely that's this is the whole exercise. >> Yep. Yep. So that's your homework >> in two days. >> We get homework too kids. I just want to add one thing to Elanor said though because we were we did talk about grant um Gilbert and what they have at the last budget workshop and Dr. Lubie said she believed that there was 600,000 in leftover in non-lapsing which would be like our 44,000. So that's
067600,000 of taxpayer money. >> No, because don't they have like a million though in what would equal like our 440 because that was a grant given to them. So then the the 600,000 is actually tax money that was given to them that they've been holding on to where we have 44,000 left over. They have 600,000 left over. And I know you said that you would ask them about that as well given that it is tax money that's been given to them for education instead of holding on to it to hopefully help us with this budget. >> And I also watched the board of second meeting. They were talking about the increase in the grand list. uh for 2027 and it's uh the increase is $180 to $190,000. >> Yeah. Because a lot of it is
068deferred, right? >> It's what? No, it's not deferred. No, it's just there's a lot like that you get the veterans benefit and there's a whole bunch of exemptions and whatever. >> But then it only comes down to about 10,000. >> It only comes down to an additional 180 to $190,000. All right, we got to end this for now because we got a another important meeting ahead of us. Um, >> so uh I'm going to move on to um we're not doing a second, >> right? Because we have public comment at the beginning of the next meeting. >> All right. Can uh would someone like to make a motion to adjourn? >> Make a motion. >> Jonathan second. >> Second. >> Shane. >> All in favor? >> All right. We're going to take a two to
069three minute recess >> before we move on to the next meeting. >> Thank you guys. That was good. >> Thank you all. >> Um that was a >> what was it? A grant that was put in by the state. So it was just a girl