001Good evening. Today is Tuesday, January the 20th, 2026. It's 700 p.m. I'd like to call our regular board of selectments meeting to order. >> Troy Lamir, >> Kevin Mish, >> Paul Marino, >> Paul Harrington, >> Todd Archalashi, >> Glenn Oberius, >> William Hester, >> Cheryl Hef, and McGlin, >> William Poso. Please join me for the pledge of allegiance >> to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [clears throat] >> Item three, agenda review. Does anyone have anything? I do not. >> Item four, approval of the minutes of our regular meeting on January the 5th. >> I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. >> Second. >> Thank you, Bill. Thank you, Troy. Any discussion, corrections?
002>> Seeing none, all in favor? Opposed? Abstaining. >> 601. >> That's approved. Item number five, citizens comments. The board of Selecmen welcomes public comments. Speakers be limited to three minutes or less and may speak once this round. Please give your name and your address. Frank uh just turn on the microphone [clears throat] 108. Tonight I speak to you as a citizen of the town of Winchester. Uh we believe starts the budget process and I think we are in some sort of I don't want to say bad times but times where we have to be very frugal on what we do and what we look at and that means maybe holding back any new programs and if we do get a program that's new and people want it what are they going to give up for
003time and money the same so this way we can manage the budget this is what makes it start tonight [clears throat] whatever enhancements come in front of you that what what is that department going to give up in cost to cover that I don't want to go into uh hiring freezes or things like that but that should be the where we go starting tonight thank you for your time The wall switches to speak. [clears throat] Good evening. Um Carrie Taylor to Sadler Heights Chimera Sanctuary and Rescue. Um good evening. We are here tonight to present the relevant facts concerning the dog seized in the small animal cruelty case, specifically the civil action filed by the town of Winchester and Harwinton animal control officer Mike Chris seeking custody of those dogs. Sarah Smol currently faces 42
004counts of animal cruelty in Winstead and Samford as well as charges related to the lararseny and disappearance of the dog Marshmallow and other related offenses. This presentation relies on evidence obtained through Freedom of Information Act requests, including police reports, court orders, court transcripts, and email correspondence, all of which have been compiled and highlighted for your review. We believe the board and the public have been misled through the emission of critical facts. It is essential that you have a complete and accurate understanding of the record before entering executive session tonight where you may be asked to approve a proposed agreement that could continue to violate court orders and place both the town and the dogs at risk. We will walk you through a clear evidence supported timeline following the town's civil filing. That record shows that
005the court approved agreement [clears throat] signed by Michael Chris filed by the town attorney Nelligan and approved by the civil court judge has been violated multiple times. The timeline further shows that the Harington animal control officer acting at the direction of attorney Nelligan placed dogs with fosters in direct violation of the court's orders. There is a strong appearance of impropriy involving attorney Nelligan and smallox ex counsel James Sarasini in connection with these placements. You will hear the date July 1st, 2025 referenced repeatedly this evening. It's a critical deadline and relevant to multiple violations. In open court, the judge expressly stated that any agreement could not allow Small to retain control over the dogs. Despite this, Foster applications connected to small act were submitted in June of 2025 with attorney Sarosini involved in their submission and
006communication demonstrating continued control in violation of the court's directive under the court approved agreement. Foster options proposed by SMEC were to be considered only after July 1st, 2025 and only if suitable non-affiliated placements could not first be secured by the Simon Foundation. Nevertheless, at the direction of the town, the dogs were placed with smallac associated fosters prior to the July 1 deadline and they remain there today. >> Thank you. Good evening. Thank you. >> Uh name name for the record >> Robin Zilla Canamela 33 Silverbrook Road. We will present evidence that the small act associated fosters Darren O'Haleran who received Oakley, Elizabeth Benlair who received Fluke and Lordes Liz Castro who received Eeyore have each repeatedly violated their foster agreements. Under both the court's orders and the foster contracts, the town has full legal authority
007to immediately remove the dogs from their care. You will also hear evidence that attorney Nelligan through communications with the Harington animal control officer repeatedly directed the Simon Foundation to facilitate the adoption of Ike, a surrendered and town-owned dog to a personal associate of Small Act in Georgia despite Simon clearly stating the individual was not a suitable adopter. The surrender form for Ike has yet to be signed by the town per the court ordered civil agreement. You will also hear evidence regarding the dog BSby who remains kennled at a private facility selected by Smallac and under her control where the dogs has experienced prolonged confinement without training, enrichment or meaningful human interaction despite the Simon Foundation repeatedly offering placement for BRBY since August 2025. You [clears throat] will hear directly from the Simon Foundation this evening.
008The foundation was asked only to assist in identifying foster placements and was never given authority to approve or deny fosters. Any claim that the Simon Foundation approved small act associate foster placements is false. The foundation had appropriate non-affiliated placements available well before July 1st in compliance with the court's order. The town was informed of this in August 2025. To date, no action has been taken to return the dogs in compliance with the court's order. A new agreement is now being negotiated between Smallac and the town that would require her to relinquish the dogs, but would nevertheless create a pathway for the dogs to remain with or be permanently placed with individuals associated with Smallac. We urge the town leadership after reviewing the full factual record to act decisively to return Oakley Fluke EOR for foster
009to the Simon Foundation for safe independent foster placement and to halt any adoption efforts involving small act associated individuals where prior placements violated court orders. We urge the town leadership to sign the surrender form for Ike. We urge the town leadership to move Brricsby to the Simon Foundation for Kenneling. Doing so will restore compliance with the court order and mitigate further legal action and operational risk to the town. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh just for the record, Brisb is currentby >> Briggsby is currently in the care of the Simon Foundation. >> Thank you. >> Uh name and >> Jennifer French, 33 Nickel Street. I am the president of Bipers Against Animal Cruelty. Here we would like to present a timeline of what has transpired in this case for you to consider. [clears throat] On
010April 3rd of 2025, please see exhibit one in your packet. Small acts attorney Sarini provided a list of suggested fosters to Winstead Police Department, including Elizabeth Hernier, Darren O'Halerin, and others. The town was aware or should have been aware of Smallik's options to foster per this police report. On May 12th of 2025, please see exhibit two. The town of Winstead files a civil case against Small Act to gain ownership of 21 dogs seized in the criminal case. The complaintant details the condition of the dogs and the horrific condition that they were kept in. On May 30th of 2025, which is exhibit three, the civil case transcript shows that Smalls attorney Sarasini and town attorney Nelligan agree verbally to a deal which includes 10 dogs being surrendered to the town. And per Smallax's attorney, quote, "The
011town is going to have the Simon Foundation find owners for these dogs." End quote. Judge Lure instructs any quote agreement made between the town and Small Act does not place the canine's back into the defendant's care, custody, or control. The town and Smallic are to submit the final details of the deal to the court in writing. On June 1st of 2025, the Harwinton ACO calls the Simon Foundation to inform them of the 10 dogs being released to Simon Foundation to be adopted per the deal between the town and Smallik. Harington acco with foster arrangements for the remaining dogs to which they agreed. Simon was given until 6:18 to process all applications for the dogs. Simon's response was that this wasn't a reasonable amount of time to process applications for 10 dogs. The Simon Foundation was
012not told that this was the deadline approved by the court. On June 5th of 2025, which is exhibit 4, the acco handed the Simon Foundation a list of persons who may be applying for the dogs, but did not inform them the list was of Smallic Associates. The list included Elizabeth Herniar, Darren O'Halerin, Lordis Castro, and Alana Janokos among others. This list overlaps with the list of Smallix Fosters in the police report from April 3rd, 2025 in exhibit one. Thank you. Nicole Shashevitz 38 Partridge Lane item with Chimera Sanctuary Rescue. Uh timeline part two from 65 to 68 2025 exhibit 5. Darren O'Halerin applies to Foster Oakley and Elizabeth Hearn CR applies to Foster Fu Fluke. Both indicate they know small act on their applications. On 69 exhibit six, the civil agreement is filed with court
013and formally approved. It stipulates 10 of the dogs are surrendered to town which were then surrendered to Simon Foundation for ownership. The 10 remaining dogs are staying in temporary custody of the town and can go only to personal fosters and one dog Bricsby must stay in a kennel environment at no cost to town. It sets an initial deadline of 6:18 to approve non-affiliated fosters before small act could present options to be quote considered end quote. On 612 2025 exhibit 7, Darren, Elizabeth, and Lord all send an email to Simon Foundation with the CC to Smallax attorney Sarasini indicating they were asked to establish this record of communication. This clearly establishes Smallik's control over the dog's placement via her attorney, Sarasini. It further establishes their applications dated well before the 618 date where they would be
014considered per the deal. On 613 2025, exhibit 8, Lord's Castro applies to foster Eeyore. Please note the dates of these applications are in advance of the June 18th, 2025 date. At the same time, Simon informs the Harington acco that people from the list they provided were applying to foster the dogs. Simon Foundation asked Harington acco if they should disqualify these applicants. After confirming with the town attorney, the acco instructs Simon to proceed with them as options even though they were not yet eligible. 617 2025. An extension is filed by town to move the hearing to 71 exhibit 9. Simon approves nonaffiliated foster for Ike Oakley Eeyore and Fluke as the best candidates for these dogs and before the 618 date. These safe foster options are recommended to Harington ACL exhibit 10. amended agreement is filed
015and approved by the court and it retroactively surrenders Ike to the town of Winstead as of 5:30. Ike was added to the list of dogs already relinguished to the Simon Foundation. Yet, they were not notified of this and they did not receive the required surrender form for him as they did for the rest of the dog surrendered. This amendment also extended the deadline to 71 before small fosters could be considered for foster placement. Lordes, Darren, Elizabeth, and Alana now cannot be considered until 71. Thank you. [clears throat] >> Hello, my name is Tina St. Jermaine, Ten Grove Heights. I am with Jasmine's Army. I'm a advocates on June 24th, 2025, exhibit 11. This contains all the emails between Simon Foundation and the Harington ACO. You will see the pattern of these emails show that the
016Harington acco directs Simon repeatedly to place dogs with Smolax Associates at the direction of the town attorney. Here are some excerpts. June 25th, 2025. Simon Foundation emails acco expressing concern for Lordes Castro and her affiliation to Smack and asked if they could deny her application for Eeyore. Simon is told to move forward with placing Eeyore with Lordes by the acco even though another safe foster was approved on June 17th. Exhibit 9 in violation of the court agreement. June 27th, 2025. Exhibit 8, Lordis picks up Eeyore to Foster, which is prior to the July 1st deadline. Again, against court orders, Lordis signs a foster agreement stating that the town of Winchester can remove the dogs from her care at any time for any reason. June 29th, 2025, exhibit 11. Simon emails that they want to deny
017application for Darren to foster Oakley, but are told by the acco that per the town attorney, they must move forward with Darren, even though another safe foster was already approved on June 17th. Again, in violation of the court agreement, June [clears throat] 30th, 2025, exhibit 11. Per the acco at the town attorney's direction, Oakley is placed with Darren and Fluke is placed with Elizabeth prior to the July 1st deadline again against court orders. And both fosters sign agreements exhibit 5 stating that the town of Winchester can remove the dogs from their care at any time for any reason. By June 30th, prior to the July 1st deadline, all three dogs, Oakley, Fluke, and Eeyore, were placed in the care of fosters suggested by Smolac, violating the July 1 deadline before they should have ever been
018considered and clearly under Smack's control, as evidenced by Sarasini's involvement in their application process. Exhibit seven. Good evening. Greg Cross, six freedom drive. I'm the animal welfare coordinator for bikers against animal cruelty. In mid July, Simon Foundation received an application for adoption from Ike's current foster wanting to formally adopt him and Simon felt felt strongly they were the best candidate for adoption. When Simon expressed their opinion that the current foster was the best choice, they were told by the Harmon acco they could not adopt Ike to the current foster and per the attorney, they had to move forward with the adoption to Small Associate Alana Janokus in Georgia. The email correspondence also contained in exhibit 11 between Harington acco and Simon Foundation shows several emails in which Simon requests the town to reconsider adopting Ike
019to Alana. The acco continues to respond. Per the attorney, Ike must go to Alana, even though Simon shared red flags such as the inability to get proper vet references and other needed information from Alana. Correspondence continues in this vein, and the Simon Foundation finds social media posts evidencing Alana is using abusive training practices on one of her dogs, exhibit 12. At this point, the post has shared with the town as further evidence as to why Alana is an inappropriate choice of adopter. Further pressure to adopt Ike to Alana has since stopped. Why would the town be trying to force the adoption of Ike to a small associate instead of surrendering the dog to Simon per the court order. The dog is surrendered known by the town. Nothing in the civil court agreement or criminal case
020speaks to permitting small associates access to surrendered dogs. In fact, the agreement states the surrender dogs would be turned over to the foundation Simon Foundation for ownership and adoption. We have provided a copy of the agreement exhibit 6 and 10 and you can see for yourself. Repeated requests have been made that the town sign over Ike to the Simon Foundation for adoption and the town refuses to do so. Thank you. [clears throat] My name is Marissa Bullier, nine Woodridge Circle and I am a member of Bikers Against Animal. Claims by the town that the court will not permit the adoption of Ike to his current foster or surrender to the Simon Foundation are false. On August 15th in criminal court, After concerns about the attempted adoption of Ike to Alana came to light, the state's
021attorney asked for clarification on the jurisdiction of the dogs. There is nothing in the transcript from Judge Pleski or state's attorney that prohibits the surrender of I to Simon Foundation. We have provided a copy of the transcript for your review. Exhibit 13. claims by the town that the Simon Foundation [clears throat] approved the placement of Oakley, Fluke, and Eeyore are also false. >> [laughter] >> It's critical to know that it isn't until August 14th that Simon Foundation is made aware for the first time that one, the court has instructed Smolock have no control over the dogs and two that any of the foster options presented by Smolok could not even be considered prior to July 1st. When they found this out and realized that the foster placements with Elizabeth, Darren, and Lordes were in violation
022of court orders, they immediately emailed the state's attorney, animal advocate attorney and town leadership, suggesting that dogs be moved immediately to unaffiliated fosters exhibit 14. Additionally, as shown in the previous timeline, they were given no authority to deny Smolok's applicants. In fact, they were directed by the town to place the dogs with them. [snorts] Good evening. My name is Nicole Strickland. I am the K9 adoption coordinator for the Simon Foundation. I have been working for nearly a year. I've assisted the town with the dog seized in Sarah Smolac animal cruelty case. I am speaking tonight because it is important that you hear these facts directly from us. When the Harington Animal Control Officer and the town of Winstead asked the Simon Foundation to assist with screening foster applicants for 10 dogs, we agreed immediately. Our
023goal was simple, [clears throat] to help the dogs, the true victims, excuse me, by placing them in safe, appropriate environments. [clears throat] We understood that to be the town's goal as well. We were told our role was limited to screening foster applications as we screen adopters and forwarding our recommendations for denials uh to the Harington acco who would make the final placement decisions. At no point were we informed of the court agreement, the judge's order that Smolac was not to have control over the dogs or the deadlines and conditions governing when non-affiliated fosters versus Smolac suggested fosters could be considered. We were given a list of names of people who might apply to foster without being told who they were. Only later after applicants were submitted did we learn these individuals were foster options proposed
024by Smolac, including Elizabeth Hearnair, Lordes Castro, and Darren O'Halerin. When applicants disclosed personal relationships with her, we raised concerns repeatedly and were told that per the town attorney, we had to move forward. Because we were never informed of the court agreement, we believed these applicants were legally eligible for consideration. Our hand was forced to approve placements with Smolax Associates after objections were overruled and we were directed by the acco the town attorney to proceed. We submitted strong alternative foster candidates yet were repeatedly instructed to move forward with her associates. We were also directed by the town to facilitate the adoption of Ike to Alana Junokos in Georgia. We were never told Ike had been surrendered by Smolac and in turn should have been surrendered to us. We identified major inconsistencies in Alana's application. Were unable
025to verify veterary references and uncovered videos of abusive training practices. Meanwhile, Ike's Connecticut foster family still wants to adopt him and we support that placement. Still, we were told to move forward with Alana by the town. It was not until mid August that we learned the terms of the court order. We immediately notified the town that had we been informed, these placements would never have occurred since they violated the order. We asked that the town returning Fluke and Eeyore for appropriate placement. To be clear, the Simon Foundation had no control or authority over these foster placements. We relied on information provided by the Haringtonio and the town attorney and followed their directions. The dogs deserve better. Thank you. My name is Andrea Karen, 8011 o'clock Road. I am a member of Desmond's Army. Violation of
026Foster agreements and Bricsby. In addition to needing to move the dogs away from Small Associates to be in compliance with court orders and the approved court agreement, the town also has the power to remove the dogs from Darren, Elizabeth, and Lordis because they have violated their foster contract, exhibits five and eight. According to police reports, exhibit 15, attorney Nelligan calls for wellness checks to begin in mid August. All fosters who are not affiliated with Smolak are compliant and willing to produce the dogs for inspection. However, on 8/19, when the Harington ACOs's attempt to check on the dogs with Smolax fosters, they are all non-compliant and refused to produce the dogs for inspection. Later that day, the Harington acco receives a call from Small's attorney asking why they were checking on the dogs and requesting to
027stop wellness checks until attorney Nelligan returned from vacation. This evidences in addition to Sarasini being involved in the application process for Smollex Associates, he and his client Smolak are still controlling what is happening with the dogs while under foster. Further non-compliance of Small Fosters is evidenced by multiple attempts at wellness checks by Norwok ACOs, Harington ACOs, and Winchester Police Department. The Small Fosters continue to refuse access to the dogs. It isn't until September 10th, a full month after wellness checks started, that the Smolick Fosters permit Harington ACOs to conduct checks. It was only after Smolick's attorney approved and scheduled checks that Small Fosters complied. This is even more evidence of Smolick's control over the dogs via her attorney. These are repeated violations of the foster contract exhibit 5 and 8 which state foster agrees that
028upon demand the town of Winchester will have access to the animal for inspection and welfare checks. The other relevant provision in the foster agreement states that the town can remove the dogs at any time for any reason. This gives the town every right to revoke the dogs from their current foster placement with Darren, Elizabeth, and Lordis. And then, of course, there's the matter of Briggsby, another victim of Smolak, who was required by the court approved agreement to be fostered in a kennel environment. Instead of taking advantage of Simon Foundation's offer to foster Briggsby in a kennel free of charge with training and socialization resources to support him, the town and Harington acco decided instead to send Briggsby to a private kennel of Smolak's choosing and at her cost. As noted in the police report exhibit
02915, Briggsby has not been physically checked on and per the kennel owner, it was reported he is not getting any training or socialization in this kennel. The towns decided to let Bricksby already severely harmed decline further in a 6x9 cage for months with no training or socialization. There is yet to be any justification as to why the town made this decision either. >> Good evening. Jamie Phillips, 286 Road. I'm here with Desmond. Last week on January 14th, town attorney Nelligan and Small Council participated in a remote hearing in the civil case. Following that hearing, the court issued an order referenced as exhibit 16 stating, "Council reports that they have partially resolved this matter with a signed stipulation wherein the defendant is surrendering rights to the dogs. Plaintist council is awaiting approval of the town's government
030officials. That order places the responsibility of approval and compliance squarely with you, the town's selectman. and it requires careful due diligence before any further agreement is approved by you to be be submitted to the court. The court the judge indicated that this new deal should be filed on or before February 19th, 2026. As we understand it, Small X attorney is requesting that as part of the stipulation of surrender, all current fosters of the dogs have right of first refusal to adopt. There should be no conditions attached to the surrender that would allow Smallax Associates to adopt these dogs. Such conditions would be inconsistent with the court's [clears throat] prior orders and undermine the purpose of the civil action which was filed so the town could vest ownership of the dogs and ensure their placement in
031safe appropriate homes. If the town were to agree to a stipulation containing such conditions, Oakley, Fluke, and Eeyore would remain at risk for of continued involvement with individual individuals connected to Snow. Contrary to the intent of the court's orders and the objectives of the civil case, given that the court's orders were previously violated when these dogs were placed with these foster with those fostered, a prompt corrective action is required. Specifically, Oakley, Fluke, and Eeyore should be removed from their current foster and returned to the Simon Foundation for appropriate placement. Griggsby should be transferred to the Simon Foundation and Ike forms should be executed. The town has alternatives beyond accepting a conditional surrender. The Simon Foundation is willing to accept custody of all surrendered dogs and place them in permanent adoptive homes. To do so effectively,
032the foundation must be allowed to operate independently without involvement from Smolac, her council, the town attorney, or the Harington animal control officer consistent with the intent of the original court approved agreement. The Simon Foundation should be permitted to apply its standard wellestablished adoption practices without coercion and interference. If a full unconditional surrender of all dogs cannot be achieved at this time, we respectfully request at a minimum that the town immediately remove Oakley, Fluke, and Eeyore from their current foster pl placements, transfer BRs to the Simon Foundation for foster care, and execute Ike's surrender form. Um, Caroline Banks, 2815 Cropsy Avenue. I'm with AMA Animal Rescue. With the information provided this evening, it should now be clear that three dogs, Oakley, Fluke, Eeyore, were placed with individuals associated with Small Act at the direction of the
033town attorney through the Harlington accoon Foundation and in violation of the court's orders. These placements occurred prior to the July 1st, 2025 deadline. Under the civil agreement in the matter of the town of Winchester, Michael Chris Harington Animal Control versus Smolac. It should be apparent that Small Act has maintained control over these dogs through her attorney, James Sarasini, beginning when foster applications were submitted to the Simon Foundation, which is inconsistent with the judge's order that Small [clears throat] Act was not to have control over the dogs. You've been presented with evidence that the fosters proposed by Small Act replacement have repeatedly violated their foster contracts. Those violations together with the foster contract language stating that the town of Winchester can remove the dogs from their care at any time for any reason further confirms the
034town's authority to remove the dogs from those placements. With respect to Briggsby, the record reflects that Small has been permitted to control his placement by selecting the private kennel where he was housed. In August 2025, the Simon Foundation has offered a safer and more appropriate alternative, one in which Smallac has no control and where Briggsby can receive the behavioral and emotional support required. The appropriate course here is straightforward. Finally, the materials provided raise serious questions about the judgment, motives, and actions of the town leadership in this matter and whether those actions have been consistent with the town's obligation obligations and the welfare of the dogs the town is responsible for protecting. If town council suggests that a prosecutor or a judge required placement with small acts associates that must be supported by the record. We
035respectfully urge you to ask council to produce the specific written order or transcript reflecting those requirements if they exist. If you are told that smallac or the fosters in question will sue the town, you must weigh that claim against the protections already in place. the court approved agreement and the foster contract signed by the fosters which expressly preserve the town's authority to remove the dogs in any event even if council asserts the dogs are fine in their current placement. That does not relieve the town of its obligation to comply with the court's orders. Thank you. Once again, just reiterating Briggsby is in the Simon Foundation's care. >> Mr. Mayor, as of when, if we may inquire, >> hear you, Mr. Mayor. 2:13 this afternoon, I received an email that Bricksby I can't tell you if
036it happened prior to 2:13, but at 2:13 this afternoon, I was uh uh made aware that Bricsby has left Stonehill and has been transferred to Simon. We do have a representative from Simon, and I know this is public input. Can you confirm that Bricsby is at Simon or on he's on his way? So, I I know speeches were probably pre-written. We understand that. But I think it's important that you know and that's why I keep motioning to the mayor to state that that you all are saying that we need to move. Bricksby is moved. Okay. He is. And we have confirmation from an employee at Simon. So, I know speeches are pre-written. Maybe don't say that part because >> it's been done. Thank you, Mr. Harrington. >> You're welcome. >> Michelle Walsh, AMA Animal Rescue
037board member and animal care coordinator. 2815 Cropsy Avenue, Brooklyn, New York. Thank you for uh clarifying that Bertsby was moved today. Um, and you are correct. Things were uh pre-written, but that does still leave several of the dogs in question, and we will not keep you here much longer. We're know you're all very busy, and we thank you for your time. By failing to take corrective action, the town risks continued non-compliance, including potential court order violations, sanctions, and other related consequences. Beyond your legal obligations, you have a moral and ethical responsibility to do what is right for the victims in this case, the dogs. Please turn to exhibit 17 in your binders. This includes photographs reflecting the condition some of the dogs that were rescued from small. We ask that you look at these images
038and keep those victims in mind as you make your decisions. We respectfully ask you not to accept anyone's assurances without documentation. Just as we have provided supporting evidence this evening through police reports, court orders, transcripts, emails, and other records, we urge you to request the same level of proof for any counter claims or explanations offered to you by the town attorney. We also encourage you to seek an independent legal opinion. We will follow up by email tomorrow with contact information for courtapp appointed animal attorneys through the state of Connecticut who would may be able to discuss this matter with you the board proono. At the last board meeting, several of you stated on the record that you were dog lovers and you expressed concern about protecting the dogs. We ask that you honor those statements
039tonight by taking the following actions. One, if the town is negotiating a surrender of all of the dogs with small act, require that they be surrendered free and clear, no strings attached, with no terms that permit or guarantee ownership or adoption by individuals associated with small. Two, if such an agreement cannot be reached immediately, please direct that Oakley, Fluke, and Eeyore be removed from Darren O'Halerin, Elizabeth Horren, and Lordis Castro to be placed with the Simon Foundation and their approved foster placements. and please execute the necessary paperwork to sign over the ownership of Ike to the Simon Foundation so that he may be adopted by his current foster which the Simon Foundation has identified as the most appropriate permanent placement for him. As a reminder, he was relinquished and according to the court-ordered agreement, Ike
040should be placed for adoption by the Simon Foundation. Respectfully, these steps are both lawful and necessary to restore compliance, protect the dogs, and protect the town. Thank you for your time. Anyone else on anything other issues? Seeing none, moving on to item number six, town managers report. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening, board. Good evening, residents. Few quick items to run through and I know we have a chalk full agenda tonight. Really quickly, the 27 budget development. Uh the process continues. Most department directors and division lead uh leaders have submitted their proposed budgets. Several larger departments still remain outstanding complexity with the numbers and components involved, but we're continuing to review uh all those documents to finally put together a budget that um is due to you on or before March 15th. Um following
041up on safe streets for all, we did complete the interview uh selection and we did uh identify a top ranked firm in the state of Connecticut. Um qualifications based on uh QBS. Um we are now working on a scope and fee negotiation. As soon as we have that settled, we will announce the firm that has been selected for the safe streets for all uh grant that we received. If you remember back, we did get $250,000 to go uh and do studies um on our streets uh to make our streets more safer. Um I can tell you that the firm that potentially uh uh will win this bid, I have worked with in the past. um their work that they do sets them uh above uh a lot of people and and it's exciting times. Um
042roadway infrastructure strategic planning preparation. We are preparing the roadway infrastructure strategic uh discussion for February 2nd. Uh it's where we're going to bring in our intern. We'll bring in our department uh excuse me, public works director, Mr. Rollins. Give you guys uh an overview of our new AI software that's viewing all the roads. put together our approach of how we're looking at uh next year's capital and further capital items down the road. I think it's important that you see how we're picking roads, where the roads are ranked. Uh I know uh Selectman Bishop had an opportunity a few weeks ago to sit down uh with those two gentlemen look at the software. I think he was pretty blown away and we thought it was almost ready for prime time. Is the board good for February
0432nd? About a 20 25 minute presentation. Um Mr. Rollins and uh and Dan will be here, our intern to run down um the roads and um you know, it'll give you all an opportunity to see and and also to weigh input from all of you, you know, we're going down the road. You know, there's been a number proposed. We want a million dollars in roads next year. We have roughly $98,000 in roads for next year. Um which we will show you and then subject to obviously what you all think of that as well. Um February 2nd, I'm looking good. What time? >> Same same meeting. Yeah, we'll put it in the meeting. I think it's important because it'll be a public presentation and our public can can weigh in on it. Uh moving quickly around
044um wayfinding signage. If you remember, we did get a grant. Right now, we're in the process with the DOT for their uh encroachment application. Once uh received, we will put the order in and target installations for the uh wayfinding signage that we did get a grant for. Uh school safety committee held its uh monthly meeting last week. huge step forward in that we got everybody loaded into Everbridge. We have our own quote unquote comm channel. All of the individuals that are part of school safety committee does have their unique ID so they can go onto their app and they can send out uh messages internally um to our group identifying an emergency. We're not that's not going to get blasted out. Eventually we'll get to the the public messaging of it. Um but school safety
045committee did make a a huge step forward. Northwood TRA Transit uh presented their preliminary budget. Um where we did see an increase. Um we went back and said we could probably even uh lower the budget even more. Um so we have another meeting this Thursday with a new proposed budget. Um because of the uh reserve funds were growing. Um the board felt that it was prudent that we could probably chop a few more line items. Um but most importantly, uh former select woman Perez and I have been working on a more local bus route. Um currently right now we're going to Torington, um six times a day. We're looking at potentially owing going two times a day and keeping four loops within the town. Um and uh she was able to ride the new proposed
046route and the executive director did as well. Um and the early words were this is a great route. So, we're still feeling it all out, seeing what the prices are. Speed camera, um, still waiting. I did talk to Syream late last week. They're putting the final touches on the report that we'll send to the DOT. Keeping in mind once the DOT does receive our report and application to uh, put the three speed cameras up. They do have 60 days to either approve or deny the uh, proposed locations. Once we get the green light, we'll move quickly into installation and implication of of that. And with that, I'll turn it open to the board for any questions or questions. >> Yeah. On the safe streets, uh Paul, I'm on that committee. Um I missed the first
047meeting that they had, but why wasn't the um committee involved in the picking of the company that we were going to use? >> Um when you bring a lot of people into a conversation like that, it was during the day. um the three or four companies that came in made uh lengthy presentations and we just kept it very small and bringing it back to the committee with uh with what the town's recommending for the uh uh for the firm. I think if the firm that's been selected thus far um weighs out, I think the uh safe streets for all committee will be very happy with uh who the firm is. >> Okay, that was a comment from another member. Just check it. >> Other questions? >> Moving on to item number six, seven, finance director's
048report. This is our 2025 general fund uh 2026, excuse me, fiscal year uh results through December 31st of 2025. We are 50% of the way through the year. Um, before I start going through this, I just want to take a minute to let everyone know that our tax tax collector is back from her leave. And I want to just give a special thank you and shout out to uh Pam Colby who was our acting tax collector during Ashley's absence and she did a fantastic job. So, thank you to her. Um, and thank you to my finance department, particularly my treasurer, who in record time this year got everybody's W2s out and the 1099s and the additional information we are now required to give to all employees related to the overtime that they worked. Um, so
049thank you to Cindy on that. Anyway, moving forward, uh, current property tax revenue year to date 19,520434, which is 66.87% 87% of the budget. That's in comparison to 16,651827 which was 60.89%. Motor vehicle supplemental uh was 2793 which is8% of the budget. That was in comparison to 9,545 just 4.24% of what was budgeted last year. past due taxes 237,289 that's 67.8% of the current budget that's in comparison to 216343 which is 36.06% of the budget total revenues year-to- date 23,668366 that's 57.7% of what is budgeted that's in comparison to 20 million19812 uh which is 4950%. Total expenditures year to date 21,133248 that's 51.52% of budget compared to 20 million 146293 which is 49.37%. Municipal aid received in the month of December. Uh disabled property taxes 1,9196 property tax for veterans uh 4,930. Our PWAP pilot
050money 16,491 distress community uh funds 3,651. Our final reimbursement on the DWSRF tank project was $22,000. That project is now complete on the water tanks for Crystal Lake and Wallace Hill. Um, and is closing at the end of this month with a final loan of 2 N I think. Hold on one second. I'll give you what the final number is. My mouse would have been good. Hold on. Yep. 2,914 is the final loan amount uh that will close at the end of the month. Uh cash flow and I believe that you all received this little summary page in your packet this month by accident. This is really my page which you're not supposed to get. And your page says uh cash flow as of November 30th. This is cash flow as of December 31st. I
051did send Glenn a corrected uh cash flow at December 31st 22,634279 of that 19 million6693 is invested 458,000 uh in the Northwest Community Bank sweep 2,614 in stiff and 15,93481 in our Northwest Community Bank money market account expenditures for the month of December. Just a little over $1,200 for town hall repairs and upgrades. 84,924 for annual road maintenance, 91,859 for the Chapel Dayton Road reclaim and pave project. 236,677 for Price Road mill and pave. Uh we paid for $299189 for the public works wheeled excavator that was delivered $112,000. Excuse me. for the Wani Road bond project, a little over 1,400 for Hubert Street bond, 17,588 for West Wakefield Boulevard, and 26,138 for the bond drainage, and just a little over $3,700 for Pearson roof. Questions? >> So, first of all, I like this page. >>
052That's my page. >> Yeah, we like it. page. >> This is like the first time we've been able to follow on. >> That page is usually not done until day of and just I got it done a little early early this time and I sent it to I send it because Glenn needs it. So, it's really not supposed to be part of the package. It's really only for Glenn to have a copy of so he doesn't have to. >> I kind of like it if we can get it in the future. I think it's >> you might not get it in your packet because I typically don't do it until the day of. But you have all you have all of the majority of that information in the summary that you get. >> This is
053easier to find. >> Yeah. [laughter] But then I could put anything on there. I could put anything on there. >> 23. >> Well, we can cross reference it to the 30 other pages, but this is just a nice sum. >> It's on the summary that you receive of total of all the revenues and all the expenditures. What you don't see is the detailed municipal aid and the detailed capital expenditures unless you get unless I send you the reports for fund 179. So, I can try to get it done, but I can't guarantee you won't get this uh with your packet that's due before the meeting. >> So, I got a question. I've been meaning to ask this for a while. Um I keep forgetting on past due taxes. How do we handle that? I mean
054is this this is what is passed due from last >> budget or from 10 years ago? >> All Yep. Um so suspense goes >> 15 10 or 15 years. Anything beyond 10 years I think we go back 10 years goes to suspense. You can still collect it but you can still collect the majority of the past due is anything prior to the current grand list year. So current grand list year is grand list 2024 um which is October of 2024's valuation. Correct? Right. I always get confused. >> So anything that we're not collecting on in the current year. So July's taxes those are current. Um and then the January installment that's all current. Anything that is grand list 2023 and prior all goes to past. So I mean in layman's terms that I mean that's
055a good percentage of return for taxes then right? I mean if you're out of our total budget >> we're missing like 90 something% we we budget past due separate from our current property taxes. So you're only looking at past due in comparison to what we're what we're budgeting for the past due numbers. And we look at when we do the budget, we look at what the trend is and what the collection rate is, current collection rates and then past due collection rates to kind of pinpoint to try to come to a number when we put a number in the budget. >> So just be clear, this isn't what is pass due. This is just what you've budgeted to get this collected collected. >> That's what I this is so when you said 67.8% that is
05667.8% of what you budgeted to collect. >> Correct. Not 67% of the whole mass of what is. So, we've only collected this year of the past due 237 and change. >> Correct. >> What is the past due taxes that we're seeking? >> Uh, if I may, so to tomorrow or maybe Thursday, um, our tax collectors uh coming in, we're printing out the top 50 delinquent uh taxes and we're going to start looking at uh new ideas um coming to this board. There could be a potential tax sale um down the road. We have obviously, you know, our >> You said tax sale. >> Tax sale. >> It sound like you said tax sale. >> Oh, tax. Yeah. Yeah, [laughter] that too. >> That too. Tax sale. >> Sorry, I sometimes I think I say tax
057sale too when I say tax sale. Um, so we are potentially looking at that, but uh the tax collector and I are going to sit tomorrow morning. We're going to look at the top uh 50 accounts. Um just so I'm very familiar with the tax sale. I've done them in the past. You can't cherrypick your tax sale. you have to create buckets and whatever falls into the bucket would go to potentially uh the tax sale attorney um and then it would go out. I've had great success in the past even though for great example 26 properties went out on a tax sale. Five of them uh excuse me, six of them actually ended up at the the the meeting where they were sold. Those owners have six months and a day to redeem. only one
058did not redeem and it was ending up taking over. But a tax sale is is something, you know, we're going to get into a little bit of a budget talk later on, but we're looking at uh newer ways to increase our revenues. Um to to point out their question was, so right now the current excuse me, past due property taxes, what we put in the budget was $350,000. So you're wondering where the uh uh 67.8% 8% comes from last year's budget uh contained $350,000 in pass through taxes. And I'll also note because it looks really tiny. Um motor vehicle supplemental is a $350,000 line item as well. Those bills hit January 1st. >> So I think the question was what is the full bucket? What's the full bucket? What's the full bucket? I'll have a
059better idea of that full bucket tomorrow. >> Can you get us that for next meeting? >> I can email it to you tomorrow. >> Yeah, email. It means not only the amount but how many bills that or how many >> properties that entail. >> I give you the list. I mean if again I'm going to send it out to the group >> and the age of the delinquency. >> We'll have it all. Yeah. >> So you guys and I can give you just an idea as of 6:30 of 2025. Um the ending balance of years 2009 through 2023 uh was $738,000. Now that's a lot of money >> that was as and and the majority of that is your is your just prior tax year. So of that 738 and this was as of 630
060uh $398,000 of that was from uh grand list 2023. So less than a year in a rears on that and then it obviously really drops off once you go back further. 2022 was just about 148,000 and 2021 is 126,000. So the last three tax years is the bulk of what your receivable is at the end of June 30th. >> Thank you. >> I would think we have an appetite to um work on that. >> And she does work on it. Our marshall, you know, works on collections on a continuing basis. as tight as our budgets are, you know, we certainly can't have millions of dollars hanging out there that we're not actively dealing with. So, correct. >> Other questions? >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Amber. >> Item eight, correspondence. Anyone on the board have any
061correspondence? >> Item nine, boards and commissions. Bill, Kevin, do you have anything? >> I have nothing new on boards and commissions. Item 10, unfinished business, charter revision applications. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, as you probably noted in your packet, you saw two applications from our last meeting. The board directed uh my office to come up uh with a little bit more uh approach to entice people and also come up with an application. We've received just two applications. They were included in your packet. Um, which direction does the board want to move in now with charter revision? I'm not I don't typically get nervous, but if we're trying to get it on the next gubernatorial election, we're going to want to move a little bit quicker. So, um, I, you know, did what the town
062did. We put it up on social media. We put it up on our town's website. I'm not sure if each of you >> anybody see the applications because I don't see >> I have >> they're in the pack. >> Oh, >> they're in the in the back. >> Keep going. >> Nice. >> Do we >> I'd like to see us um let it ride another month and and get more interest, please. >> I agree. >> What about the next meeting at least? What about the people that we had in the list? It's possible committee members that's on page. >> It's so if you're following the the the board of selectment packet, we we had >> 21 I believe. >> Um we had the name. So this this has been updated um with the application. So
063you have a new list of applicants. Um >> This is the most updated list. Um because I can confirm because of the last name on the list, her application is in the back of your packet. Um so I can confirm that that's the updated list. That's where it stands. >> So these So we have seven people that have express an interest at this point. >> That is correct. And some of those >> looking to do uh nine member or seven member. >> We're talking about five with two selectmen. So seven with the selectman. and the selectmen are a non voting >> right >> advisory um facilitating role. >> Okay. >> So, so we so what we're looking So we have more applicants than we have spaces for. Is that fair to say? >> Yeah, but
064if you look over um some of those applicants are on boards that disqualify them. >> What would disqualify them? >> Well, if you uh re reviewed the minutes from our last meeting, we stipulated boards that you cannot serve on to be part of this committee. So, who's disqualified? >> Well, I don't know the entire list of who's on what boards. I can tell you that um William Hudok serves on the DTC in a leadership role. John Herman serves on board of assessment appeals. Those two would be eliminated based on that criteria. Um does anybody else know any other people that serve on boards on that list? Because off the top of my head, I don't. >> Well, I can say that Mr. Hudach is no longer um head of the DTC, but won't be as
065of next month. So that's not a concern for him then. I don't think he's on any other boards. That would disqualify him. So Mr. Herman, so then we still have So one, two, three. So then we still have the se we have seven people. So why do we want to postpone this and not I mean we're looking at trying to get this done by November. It's a lot of work, you know, and every a lot of people involved sort of scheduling stuff. So why aren't we trying to just move this along? We have people who have submitted their interests. They're willing to participate. Why don't we just proceed with it today? >> So for me, you've got one, two, three, four, five people on this list that may qualify. We don't know for sure whether
066they're on a border committee. You say Mr. Hudach is no longer there. I guess we'd have to get uh confirmation of that. So to have a total list of five people to form this committee without having an opportunity to have looked at maybe a dozen applications and picked the best people for this list. I think we let it ride further >> and you know I'm looking at that this is a large project. We want to try and get it done by November. We have people that have put their name forward as being interested that would fulfill that the the seats that we have allotted, you know, just to try to get more people who haven't expressed an interest to date when we've been promoting this for a month. It just doesn't >> Yeah. As we
067talked about at the last meeting, we just came through the holidays. So from Thanksgiving until the end of the year very little gets done in any business or in this you know public se uh sector either. So to expect that we would have had a lot of applicants during the last 45 days I think was unrealistic and only after the last meeting did we start really um putting this out there with earnest and I um I think we should have more applicants before we move forward. I'd like to also point out we actually some of these people are people who applied by just emailing the town manager. So we don't actually have their filled out application with information about them. The last two we do. So it would be nice to have because these are
068very informative all about um what they've done and where they've served and all of that. So, I mean, even those who who just emailed before, if we could get them to just fill this out, then we would have in front of us all the information and there wouldn't be any question about who they are and what they [clears throat] do. >> Yeah. I think without a to your point, without a completed application, I wouldn't even consider them yet. >> Yeah. I I I like the application, too. And you can take Mike Ferrell's name off. He serves on water and sewer. >> Yeah. I think this is an important committee and I think to I think we need to all do a good job over the next several weeks to promote this and get more applicants
069so that we have a good list to choose from not just five who happen to be the the remaining five that haven't been for whatever reason disqualified. >> So we're going to set a deadline by which applicants um applications need to be on are we going to keep going meeting after meeting hoping that more people um apply and show their interest? I think a deadline is important. I've talked to a few people who are interested and they ask, "Well, what's the deadline?" And I said, "Well, I should try to get in before the next meeting, but it's not, you know, that may not be when we achieve." So, we set a deadline. People know we know. >> I'll make a motion to set a deadline for the next board of selev commission. >> Deadline for
070the next meeting >> for the next meeting. >> So, that would be February 2nd's meeting. And today's the So, that would give us essentially two weeks. Yeah. Two, three weeks. A >> little under two weeks. Yeah. >> I'll second that. >> Any other discussion? >> Yeah. So, I mean, I was in agreement with Paul. I think it I I don't really think setting a deadline is uh is pertinent at this point. Like you said, uh it's winter holidays we're going through. It just got started to get advertised. I'd like to see some participation of people I don't know. I'd like to see, you know, some people that are not on boards of commissions come to do that because I think that would be a more I don't know, some of these people were on the
071charter commission before and it failed. So, um, you know, I'd like to see some different names out there and I I think we need we got to do our due diligence to try to attract more people. That's all. I I disagree with the um putting a a deadline on it, but we start pushing this to the end of February or into March, there's not going to be enough time for this commission to do for the commission to do the work that they need to do. >> So, I disagree with that. I don't I think the more time you give them, the the le the less chance of it passing. So, you got to put them to task. >> Well, you can say put them to task, but you're talking about trying to coordinate seven different
072people's schedules to do meetings. That's extremely difficult to do. You know, that's a lot of people. You know, we have scheduled set meetings. We know when we ran for office, we know that this is our meeting dates. Okay? It's hard when it gets changed. So, if we we've scheduled ourselves for Mondays and now something turns to a Tuesday because it has to, it makes it more difficult for some of us to make ourselves available, but we do. But, we're not trying to coordinate everyone else's schedule. With a commission like this, it's not a set day generally. It's like, okay, when can we all get together? What's your what you what do you got going on next Thursday? So, I think that it's extremely important for us to set a deadline, for us to move this
073forward so we can make sure this commission has the time to review the charter, have the discussions, to talk with us. You know, that's what's important. Um, you know, I agree it would be great if we had, you know, a lot of unknown people or people that show a lot more interest. And that would be great. New people are always good. I appreciate that. But I don't think that we're necessarily going to get new people or people we don't know by simply pushing the deadline out out further and further so that now people don't have time and their time pressure to do a very important job six months down the road. >> I would offer a compromise I think to that. Uh I would offer that we have a deadline for February 17th. That be
074the second meeting next month. that gets it potentially done prior to the end of February and that gives us a little under 30 days from today to have that last push effort out there to bring in some new volunteers for this committee. >> I'd agree to that. >> Just uh a date. So you're looking at a Tuesday, but typically we meet on a Monday. >> I wasn't looking for a Tuesday. >> Oh, it was the president's day. So he's actually correct. You're welcome. >> 17. You're good. If I may recommend um if if you're going down that route, possibly do applications due on or before February 13th. I have to turn them over to you guys, give you time to review them. >> If you say the 17th, they could come in at 4:00 and
075um printing copies and bringing them down to you. But that's just from my office. >> I could agree with that. >> Yeah. So, if we're due in February 13th, I know the town hall is only open till certain time, so it should be before an hour before town hall closes. >> 11 p.m. on that Friday. >> 11 a.m. >> Sorry. Yes, you're staying late. Sometimes I work. No. So, uh, Cheryl, you want to >> I will amend my motion to have there be a deadline for the receipt of applications for the Charter View Commission by February 13th at 11:00 a.m. for the for the commission for the board to consider action on at the N board meeting of February 17th. >> Before you second, can I just add one thing to it as well that
076they come in on the approved applications? >> Yeah, I'll second that. Any other discussion? >> All in favor? Unanimous. >> So, just from my office, I'm going to go back to the original or the the few applicants from the beginning, get applications done on them if they so choose to fill it out. I will then also mark it out on all of our channels that uh applications are closing um on or before well before February 13th at 11:00 a.m. >> Could we um also who receives the applications? Does it come into Glenn's office? >> No, they come into town managers. >> Can we cross check them against boards and commissions to make sure that the list you present us is clean and we don't have people that currently serve and are ineligible on this list
077when we get it? We can do that. >> Can we get copies of the applications when they come in >> or can we? >> Well, when on Friday afternoon, like we get a whole >> I was going to give you a whole That's why I was saying, can we do it on the on the 13th and I, you know, >> 11:05 or >> I think I'd rather get them all in one shot rather than instead of peace meal. Yeah. >> Um, they get lost in the shuffle. Is that I'll do whatever you guys want. Just tell me what's >> I think with their packet would be great. Well, to us on the 13th, >> which you'll get your packet for the 17th [laughter] anyways. Right. >> All right. Moving on to item 11, new business,
078a budget priorities. Tom Andrew Harrington. >> Okay, let me get to that. So, uh I I I'm not sure if you had an opportunity to look over the memo I included uh with your packet tonight. Um it talks about some pluses, some minuses. I'm open if you want me to to to you know, it is a public document. it was included online. Um, but this is an opportunity and and I'm stealing some thunder from our superintendent, Dr. Louvie, who did this with her board. I presented it to to this group uh at our last meeting to get your priorities. We're starting to craft the budget. It's due to you on it before March 15th. I think you've all had a chance to review the document uh that I prepared. There are some wins and unfortunately
079there there there's some there's some struggles that that are before us. But as I lay out the budget and in and the budget office does I'm looking for a little guidance. We did this uh the year before. Um I want to turn it over to the board to just, you know, have an open dialogue of some guidance of where you want to see this budget go, some of your priorities. Um and then we'll craft this budget, get it over to you. >> So um if I don't I'll start if everybody doesn't mind. I think roads. Let me say that. Spell that again. Roads. Everybody hear really loud and clear. Roads. We need to pave as much as we can pave and get this project moving forward. >> That's a capital R on roads because if
080we the the joy of going around town and seeing all of our residents and and friends and neighbors who yell at us about roads is got to be a priority here. We've got to get more in the budget for that. I listen, this is going to be a difficult budget. I get it. But we've got to prioritize that project and get creative in how we're going to uh move forward with roads. So that would be obviously I think everybody's wish list. I'll throw out one other. You asked us for wish list. I I'll throw out one other. Um I've spent as everybody knows quite a bit of time in the police department over the last uh year and I've learned some things about um our personnel and and needs and what have you. And I'm
081I'm excited that we've done a great job with our revolving fund and we've been able to supply them with equipment that we hadn't been able to do before. Um, but I would as a as the wish list, whatever makes the final cutting room floor, we don't know. But on the wish list, uh, I would like to see potentially a lieutenants position crafted for the police department. One of the areas uh one of the interesting things I learned about our department is if you want to start here in as an officer, if you would like to grow through the ranks and ultimately become the chief someday, you cannot because we don't have a lieutenant's position. Um an assistant chief would not allow that to happen either. You have to go from sergeant to lieutenant before you
082could get into any of the chief or assistant chief positions. I think as a I know the chief has asked for help. I've learned that there is significant administrative work that doesn't get done or is given to people who should be out on the streets doing the other job. Um, a lieutenant position would would take care of some of that administrative work and also give us that bridge so that someone could move up the ranks and ultimately if they so desired and they had the aptitude could be chief. So, I'd like to see potentially if we can get a police a lieutenant in the budget. Um and then um we're not overstaffed. So uh if there's [clears throat] a in the budget again for another officer or two, I think we'll rely on the chief
083to tell us that. But um they are clearly not overstaffed. They are they are barely getting by down there. >> That's my wish list. >> I'd like to see um same as Paul said, the roads get done, but I wanted earmarked for paving only. I wanted it to be a we talked about this in earlier meetings where she wasn't going to do it as a line item, but it could be a airmarked for thing. Um I'd like to see a minimum of a million dollars in that line item. Um and and that doesn't include the normal um road repair program that we always fund. Um, I'd like to see capital projects, um, you know, at a minimum. Um, we got we got some serious roof money to to talk about. Um, there's a lot of
084things coming down the pike. Um, and, uh, we got to be easy with the capital. [cough and clears throat] >> I just want to throw out there that, you know, I definitely support, you know, the idea of of, you know, maintaining roads and supporting the police and all that. Um, as uh Mr. Oliver from the board of uh education said earlier though, we do want to make sure we can maintain what we have before we go adding a bunch of programs. And in that vein, I just wanted to um dispel a few uh feelings or myths that that might be um surrounding the school budget. I know that there's a general idea that, you know, we're just throwing tons of money at uh the Winchester public schools and that it's like somehow evaporating, but you
085know, it was thrown out this week that, oh, we've given $3 million over the last two years, which we have. That's a lot of money. Um, but you know, when you average that over the over the two years, $46.3 million budget, um, three million comes out to about 6% per year. So that's, you know, just barely above inflation. Now, when you look at what we've done over the last five years for Winchester Public Schools, over the last five years, cumulatively, we spent 111.6 million, which um, and the only thing we've given is that $3 million increase. That comes out to 2.6% 6% per year over the last 5 years. I looked up the general inflation rate for the country over the last 5 years is 4.5%. So we have not been throwing buckets of money
086at school indiscriminately. If we're not funding the schools at the minimum of inflation rate, they are going backwards. So to maintain what we have now, we have to and that applies to all departments. If we're not funding at the inflation rate, we're going backwards. So, I just want to dispel the myth that we're throwing money out there at the schools and it's somehow evaporating. We're not. Um, and as far as there's another myth around about like the schools are only accessed by a small part of the population. So, I just did some rough calculations. In the last census, um, our town had a residence uh have 10,39 residents and about 1,000 of those are our children going to our schools or the age of just, you know, about to enter school. That gives us about
0872,000 parents. That's already onethird of our population directly involved in the schools. Now, now when you look at all the people, you know, all the family, the grandparents, you know, aunts and uncles who care about their children, all the people who live here who have gone through our schools and are now adults, all the people who have kids who went through our schools, like you're basically talking about everyone. It's one of our it is of course our most expensive part of our budget, but it's also accessed by everyone and it's very important. So, I just want to make sure that I'm all for supporting, you know, everything being funded, but I want to make sure that, you know, we are not leaving the schools behind by just having this feeling that somehow we've thrown a
088lot of money in the past, we can forget them this year. So, that's my priority. >> I would agree that education is very important and I agree with the roads. Um, increasing our budget by a million dollars, which is about a mill rate to add another million on road project, it's not going to give us the return that put in money into education will and you know that's really important to consider. We want to go back 10 years. Do we want to go back to where we were we were underfunded our education? And we we have our you know continual issue where you know we we cannot control what we're build by our our high school. We can't control that. We can we get a bill from them. We have to pay it. That's automatically
089part of the education budget. And if they're asking for an increase, it's the WPs that's going to have to cut their budget. And it's already I remember the presentation last year where, you know, our superintendent talked about how bare bones, as did our town manager. You have to invest in order to prove. I will tell you that I will have find it very hard to believe that we've gotten the investment of these new buildings coming in. We got marshals in town. Do you think we got marshals in town because we had crappy education? No. Because we did have education. They're bringing They're bringing jobs. They're bringing tax money into us because we have a good education if the town is improving. We start cutting on education or other things they're needing this town. It's going
090to hurt the business environment and hurt keep people from wanting to invest. Do you think that couple that business that just wanted to invest a $2.6 6 million building in Main Street is it did not factor in how where our schools are standing. Our schools are doing well. They're struggling, but they're still doing well. And I posted some stuff about that on Facebook in response to some people saying that our schools were doing poorly. They are doing well and they're doing well, you know, on a shoestring. We can't cut that sho string. All of our utility rates went up. all of our health insurance costs went up. That includes the town and the schools. That's important to understand. So there, if those costs go up for you, they go up for us. And we have
091to figure out how we're going to do it. Unfortunately, how we raise money is through taxes. Yes. Seeking, you know, taxes, which is why I asked the budget comm u finance director as to what the outstanding taxes are. I like the fact that we're looking to do something significant about trying to collect on those back taxes. There's other things we look at, but you know, yes, we have a school roof project. Fortunately, that's going to be covered. You know, most of it's going I think it's 72% it was or something that gets covered by bond, but we have a lot of work to do still for our schools. And we can't cut those just to pave roads. That's not appropriate. that is going to cause us more problems than and then not paving as many
092roads as we'd like next year if we stop you know we'll lose staff we will lose quality education our kids deserve you're not going to make it up it's once you build it was I was part of the board of ed for six years as we were rebuilding that school system and it was hard and we took advantage of every grant we could did everything we could to keep that budget down you can't you know you can't cut nothing and prices have gone up for all of us and that's something we have to live with. It's not that I want to pay more taxes, but we have to pay taxes. We have to pay to support our kids, this town, track the businesses, increase our tax base. You're not going to do that if you
093if you cut our schools, which is what is going to be what I understand is being suggested. >> So, Paul, if I can now um I got a huge wish list of what I'd like But after the last two two tax years, I'm not going to put anything on your wish list. I don't want anything. We need to keep this budget as tight as possible. Um, great. Inflation went up. Inflation went up. Schools suffered. School suffered. People's pay have not gone up as much as that increase. And we come back to our taxpayers a third year in a row and be like, we really like this. And we only have to go up four mills, three and a half mills. I'm not adding anything to your list. Um, we have a job to do when
094we actually hit the budget. Let's see where the numbers come in at. Who's asking for what? And >> yeah, I understood your request here as basically our wish list if we could find a way to get it in the budget. What would be some things that we would like? And um you know and this you know it is this board >> over the last two years that spent that $3 million on education. Let's be clear about that. >> Prior to that, nobody had given them any extra money. >> Correct. >> So it's this board that did that. On top of being handed a lot of gifts that came from the previous board. We got the gift of no police contract that was a million dollars. We got the gift of the ambulance uh volunteer crew
095that couldn't uh keep the town safe. that cost us several hundred,000. And I'd go down the list of all the gifts that were kicked that the cans were kicked down the road before we got here. Roads have been ignored for 30 years. And that's a quote from our public works director. 30 years we've ignored the roads. So, I personally am not here to attack or go after education. But what I'll tell you is, and for those of you, you're in for a treat on March 15th when you get that budget. Because I came into this role thinking, yeah, we can we can watch what we spend. We can really tighten our belt. Yes, we might have to do some tax increases. We want to fund education. We want to do all Listen, the list I'd
096like to do in town, I could give you I could go through for an hour and a half what I'd like to spend billions of dollars on because God knows we need it. But to Bill's point, we've done two years in a row now, and last year was pretty substantial. And this town has a limit in terms of what it can andor is willing to spend. So, have we found the limit? I don't know. But we're going to go through every step of this budget process. And we're going to work very hard to keep this tax increase, if we have a tax increase, at a very bare minimum because I don't believe that we can deliver another one the way we have over the last two years to the residents here. They can't afford it.
097We're a town that has to work within our our income, the money that we have. You know, unlike the federal government that go out and spend trillions of dollars on on the credit card, we don't have that luxury. >> We have to spend what's coming in. Um so, you know, this is a a situation where you're going to learn very quickly that we have our limits in terms of what we can spend and it may not be equal to inflation. And I think >> again I'd like maybe a little information maybe you have some of this. So we talk about roads. Is there not a compliance issue with the state that >> roads I I've heard that roads have to be done every so many years. It may be a lot like 25 years. >>
098They can't they can't force a town to do road maintenance. >> Yeah. Well the state's different. The state's got lots of our money. So the reality is we want to do what's right for the town. We really do. We want to provide the right education. I understand how important that is. >> But we also have to provide public safety. We have to provide roads. And it's not an easy task. >> And we're not saying disagree with we're not saying disagree with those. Yes, we're going to have to look at it. But I would, you know, you still have to look at the last budget that the board of ed presented. It was bare bones. They there was the presentation was done. was very thorough by our superintendent showing how bare bones it was. You know
099that there wasn't room to cut. Now, if you cut people, you're going to if you're going to cut staff, what's going to happen under the terms of the contracts that we are under in the board of ed is that the teach this the classrooms are going to get larger. If the classrooms go over a certain number of students per teacher, the pay for those teachers goes up, which means you're not getting the savings. So you have to look at the whole picture and I've been involved in budget budgeting for six years for this town when I was with the board of ed. We took it very seriously and took very carefully. We did everything we could to keep a zero balance. Yes, it got to the point two years ago where we could not do
100a zero increase anymore. We could not do it. And I don't even know what's going on with the grant situation, but I, you know, attended the board of ed meeting, you know, last week and it's it's going to be a tough tough sale. You and part of those increases the last two years were capital expenses for the Gilbert school that they're now keeping as if that's their regular amount and then adding more mass to that. So, there's a lot of things we have to do have to look very carefully at everything, the education budget, this town's budget. But what I'm saying is do not write off the importance of good education, a good school system and and and this town developing and improving its tax base for the >> that is a huge >> generally
101the entire increase last year with the exception I think of maybe 200 $250,000 was all education >> 266,000 from last year the the >> was the town increase bill >> that was Gilbert's increase that >> No, what was the town increase? It was >> Yeah. Well, that was Gilbert's on the on the board of education side. The board of education got $1,544,400 [clears throat] at a 6.88% increase. The year before they got 944,555 at 4.39 and then 21 or 832,892 at 4.03%. But if you look at that's a 16.1% increase to the school budget. So, I'm actually going to go the opposite way because we only take in so much money. >> So, I I got a different I was sharing with Paul, I have a different outlook. It's not so much spending, it's what
102can we take in. So, we also have the veterans tax that's coming up that the veterans won't have to pay property tax or tax on the >> property tax. Uh there's um the school the state uh funding for the school hasn't changed in 10 years years um and and the state just keeps taxing us and taxing us and taxing us. So not only and I was sharing with this with some people not only are the schools paying for it but your water and sewer's paying for it. So you're paying for it, your extra charge for the kids in school, every time you flush the toilet, every time you turn the water on, and then that's that's just for the town and then yourself. So you're getting whacked like four times extra tax, and we're not
103seeing any tax come back to us from the state of Connecticut. And that's some of the biggest problem. But we our our revenue side is only going to be so much. Marshall's isn't going on the grand list till next year. the building, you're looking two to three years. Even hide the old Highland Acres, you're not going to see that on the tax roll for at least another year or two years. Plus, there's other uh places that uh the bachelor school, they're only going to pay so much. So, there's only going to be so much money that's going to come in. The going out's the easy part. It's the coming in is going to be the hard part. Making a grand list, we're in the right direction, but it's not going to happen >> this year.
104It's not going to be for a couple more years before we see anything from it. >> That's the challenge we have is >> and that's the challenge. >> We have great projects coming into town. There are some things to be excited about that are going to increase the grand list. But the problem is it takes two or three years for those to hit. >> That's correct. >> And the expenses are happening now. >> So, you know, again, I thought this exercise tonight was really about a wish list. I didn't think we were really going to get into a debate about the education budget. Um, that'll come. Trust me, we'll have lots of fun meetings about I just said what my wish list was and kept going. >> But [laughter] uh and so did that. >>
105Our superintendent sitting over there going, "I had so much fun doing this last year." >> One thing I'm going to ask before we Here's my wish list. >> Let me just finish one thing though. One one thought. Our exercise tonight was the wish list. This wish list may not be for this year's budget, right? If I wanted to get a lieutenant on the force, that might not make it this year. It might end up on the cutting room floor. and it comes into a year when we have seen our grand list return, the things that we've been working on that finally start putting some money into the budget. Um, but this was tonight about what do you want? What would you like to accomplish? And it may not be this year. >> And I just
106like to say to Cheryl, um, we have 90 miles of road in Winston. Maybe just maybe 92 >> 80 something >> or 80 something like 84. A million dollar will luckily get you a mile worth of road paving. >> I know that. >> So 90 years at a million dollars it would take to repave every road in town. >> We have lousy money right. >> All right let's get back on Bill. >> So >> only thing for my wish list. I don't want anything spent this year when you come to us and the school comes to us with an ask. First year I got one page here. Here's our budget from the finance department, the board of ed. Second year after I >> begged, begged and begged, I got it was much better. It was
107like six, seven pages. [clears throat] You hand us a 6 inch binder I have trouble carrying out to the truck that has every dollar spent in the town. I'm not even going to discuss the schools this year. I'm not even talking about the school any increase this year unless I know how much the toilet paper cost, the Kleenex, and they go, "Well, if you really want to know everything, I want to know everything. I want to know how many pencils we bought at what I I can't find that the finance department with with the accounting software we have nowadays can't print out an entire freaking budget where every dime and if I don't get it, I'm not even I'm not even talk about it." >> All right, we are early in the process. Um, so
108if by um >> to maybe offer a little glimmer of sunshine. So heard everything that was said and it and and it's helpful. Um I wouldn't be doing my job if I if I didn't mention I'm going to start with the negative then I'm going to switch to the positive. So the first negative and you probably hear it all over the news. Um is we have a health insurance problem and it's not just in this town it's everywhere. Our health insurance is exploding. Um it's exploding in this town for uh several reasons which I'm not going to go in depth right now, but I can tell you that um the office has gone out and tried to bid our insurance and I can let you know that the three large carriers refused to quote it
109because we're a polling loss. So we are still with our current provider. We are also looking at the state plan uh 2.0. Uh good friend of mine, the comproller, Mr. Scan, has not released uh next year's rates yet. I can also let you know that that plan is currently $24 million underwater. So, what is the year that they're going to play catchup? So, I say that now because I don't want any shock value when I come in with the insurance number. Insurance is insurance. And I'm sure everybody in our audience, everyone at home, I'm getting nods right now. Everybody's insurance is exploding. I'll leave my commentary quiet. I was going to say something else, but I'll leave that quiet for now. Um, so that is a a potential pitfall that, you know, part of our
110bargaining agreements, part of, you know, being a good employer, you do have to offer insurance. We are thoroughly looking at every option imaginable at this present time. I can't tell you the one we're going to go with, but we are looking at it. That's a pitfall. On a positive note, we do know that we did pass the ordinances for those speed cameras and there is a potential, you know, if people aren't obeying it, we can supplement roads and our police budget with potentially that money. But and this is a huge butt. I am going to asterisk this big time because then it can't be blamed on me. You are potentially creating a huge hole in the following year's budget. All right? But I have done budgets now for almost 20 years. Sometimes you do have
111to throw that gamble out there. I would never suggest a full gamble and put it all out there. But there are some windfalls. I'm going to come with a couple suggestions. The other thing I want to note is that if we do do a tax sale, that potentially is creating yet another budget shortfall the following year. Because if you go out and you sell the $700,000 in delinquent taxes, you don't have it the following year. You have nothing to sell. You then again have a potential shortfall. But I heard roads. I heard a million dollars. These are potential sources of being able to fund those projects while you're leaving the operating budget intact. So, I'm going to come with a lot of different proposals. I think Sleman Hester, he did listen to me. Um, because
112I said, and he asked me, why aren't you worried? I worry more about the revenue side of the equation always because even with our home budget, if the revenue is coming in, we don't care that that bill came in the mail. It's easy to pay. The revenue is there. I concentrate heavily on a revenue side of the budget because it's most important because this side over here gets taken care of if the revenue is there. Finding different sources. I think you found over the last year you we fund capital items. We are looking under every rock to potentially get as much revenue without you know potentially you know going back to there other ways to bring revenue in and we're looking at them all. So insurance don't want it to be a surprise to anybody.
113Um, but those other wish list items and all of that are going to be up several, you know, weeks in a row. Probably not sleeping trying to put this budget together, but we'll get you something that uh you guys can chew on and we'll have it to you on or before March 15th. >> You know, you talk about revenue like the speed camera revenue or the, you know, anything that's not a guaranteed revenue the following year. If you fund positions with that, you put yourself in a potential hole. But if you fund one-time projects, a road project >> that you're paying for with that money, then you're not necessarily digging that hole for the following year. >> And I would ast, you know, when motions are made and stuff like that that we don't start
114that project until, similar to the police revolving account. You all, we knew the money was going to come in. You all didn't let me uh purchase that cruiser until we had the revenue in the bank. So, we could do things like that. you know, I'm going to try and set things up as as nice as possible. Um, there, you know, it's it's going to be a tricky year. We're going to get through it. I'm going to give you everything I got. I'm going to, you know, after all these years doing budgets, I'm not going to say this is the hardest budget year. There's been some hard ones. There was a year where former administration down in Harvard were cutting towns like 75% of municipal aid. Remember that? Um you took towns that were getting >>
115they cut it mid year. >> Then they cut it mid year and spending freezes had to go in. We're not even close to that. So um although a difficult budget year um fortunately we're in a byanual budget so we kind of know what our revenue from the state's going to be. I do wish it was more. Um we are protected a little bit that we're not going to you know lose money in the bannual. Wish we got more but um we'll get there. Um but again uh asterric uh the health insurance but also um one-time uh revenue items might be able to fund some capital purchases which leaves the operational uh intact. So, um, we'll get it to you. Remember, >> can I just give a couple numbers because I heard somebody mention the percentage
116increases on both side education versus the town. Go ahead. >> Just to give you a point of reference, the town side of the budget, uh, the increase in expenditures in the fiscal 26 budget is 153,367. That's a 1% increase in the budget from the prior year. Um, whereas the and that's excluding debt administration, which was almost 12% So we have some offset there um this year as compared to the board of education which was4 which was a 6.9% increase. So that's the breakout of your buckets and >> right >> yeah was 266 out of the 1.5 million >> I don't think it's accurate because they added in the money that they've been given for capital improvement the year before as being part of their regular business expenses now. So that so when they added they
117did the 200,000 increases was on top of what they had been given the prior year which included a significant capital expense was supposed to be one time. So it shouldn't have been part of their budget ask at that point. So I think that's a distinction that needs to be looked at. So remember we need to be it's early. We need to be responsible. We need to be reasonable. We don't want to tax people out of their houses. And we also have to realize Connecticut is often its own worst enemy and we may face some federal funding cuts because of some Connecticut actions. >> Moving on to item B, Pearson school roof project. Superintendent, town manager. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Dr. Lubby, come on down. >> As Bill's walking up, maybe we take a fiveminute
118recess, Mr. Mayor, before we start this. Uh, we'll take a five minute recess to let you get set up while we wait for Bill to come back. >> I don't have anything set up. You gave everyone the drawing, right? So, I'm >> They have it. >> Wonderful. >> So, I guess we're wonderful. It's very >> good, Paul. How you doing? >> I hope you saw my emails and didn't sit relax. We're back from recess at 8:45. >> Item 11, the Pearson School Roof Project. So, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, with us tonight is our superintendent uh of schools, Dr. Lubie, and Roger. I apologize. I've never caught your last name. >> Lafur. >> Lafleur. Um, Roger's here. Uh, I'll let him tell you what he does and why he's here. But, uh, I think we
119all know that this was coming down the pipeline. Um, we made several comments at selectment meetings, if you've tuned in the board of ed meetings, that we do have a Pearson roof problem. We have a 50-year-old roof. Um, and most roofs last 30 years. So, it's time to replace the roof. So, Roger and Dr. Luby are here tonight uh to walk us through um what it looks like and I'll go through what needs to be done. >> Can I just ask a quick question? Are you from the Garland company? >> No, sir. >> You're not. Okay. >> Thank you. >> So, Roger, do you want uh why don't you go in go in a little do that like two-minute commercial what Roger does. I think it's important for the board. >> My company is PM
120Resources and I used to work for CRE Capital Region Education Council. I was the director of school construction there for about 11 years. Uh I left there in 2014 and started my own company. And one of the things we were doing when we were at Crack was we were assisting our member districts which were about 33 communities surrounding Hartford with their school construction projects. And that's what was my specialty was school construction. So I worked with CRE and I worked with the state of Connecticut and we sought grants for school construction. We built a lot of the magnet schools. Uh whether you like them or not, that's that's what we did. Um, and then when I left the when I left Kraken in 2014, I assisted especially smaller towns because they didn't have the in-house
121expertise to manage the process of going through the grant process with the state. And it's something I do routinely. So, I work my my involvement if I get were to be hired for this project would be to represent the town of Winstead um or Winchester uh in in this case uh with the state to make sure that you got your fair share of the grant and that you got it in a timely fashion and that we got it covered properly. Um, part of my other responsibilities is to assist the town through the process of selecting the design professional, whether it's an engineer or an architect through the state process because if it's not done according to the state procedure, you would be ineligible for reimbursement of their fee. Um, I also help with that same
122process through the contractor. And then I also keep track of the financial records, change orders, pay applications, CHRO, prevailing wage, and then at the end of the project when everything's done, we do a substantial completion punch list, close the project out, do the audit, and get your final check from the state. >> So you're essentially the project manager. >> I'm the administrator. >> Okay. Do you And you are also working through the bid process for the for the contractors. >> Okay. Thank you. In full disclosure, we have used Roger services in a prior town I worked in and can say nothing but great things. He makes sure all of the money uh came into the town on a timely fashion. Um, so, uh, just a little bit of a >> as somebody to it, >>
123as somebody that works with the state on a normal basis with bridges and stuff like that, your services will be invaluable because >> they will hold back >> money for the littlest error in paperwork. It's been h it's happened so many times and it's it's frustrating, >> right? So long and short of it and Roger again is going to carry a lot of this but we've done you'll remember we spoke about this last year and uh you graciously put a small line item aside to do the initial leg work. So we've had an asbestous test. We've done a moisture scan so that we would know what the scope of the project needed to be that we're talking about. The roof um has been verified to be 26 years old with a 20-year standard. I'm not
124sure where you got your 15, your 30 from, but the standard is 20 years. It is um been 26 years. In your packet, you have um this is the results of the moisture scan. This is probably the more important piece of the two tests that we did. There was some asbestous found. It's not that's sort of not the big issue. Uh the bigger issue is the moisture. Um to be honest, you know, I hate that I'm sitting before you with this project. is so uninteresting, if you will. Um, I'd far rather be talking about things that are instructional and um to the good, but it rains in the building, you know, in several different places throughout the year. We use buckets and clean it up, but it is wet. And they tell me we're about
12520 plus% moisture when you do the roof. Um, we could continue with barrels catching the rain as it comes in. The problem that they tell me is when you leave the wet sitting up there, it breaks down the structure under the wet and now your base that you build the roof on starts to fall apart, um, I hate to use the M-word, but you're going to end up with mold and you're going to end up with health scares and people screaming, I can't work in a moldy building, and all those bad things. Um so although I the last thing I would like to do is suggest that we spend money for it um our rep our um reimbursement rate with the state is um 70 to 72%. Um the project which has been vetted and
126vetted and vetted again on the last page of your Garland company report uh they suggest a range of about 2.8 to$2.9 million. um in the firm belief that that is definitely ample for the project. There's less room for surprises because we've already done the moisture scan and the asbestous test. Those are the two things that had you not done them, you'd probably have a bigger range and a bigger worry, but they consider this to be a really reliable number with our reimbursement rate. Uh cost to the town is probably 840 to 870. Um, >> and before we go any any further down the road that um the Garland company is not bidding on this project, if this project is approved, it would go through a full process of the bids. Um, Roger will oversee that,
127but making sure that they've checked all of the the boxes they're supposed to check with DAS um and and to be on the the up and up. So, um, tonight and what I didn't do is I haven't engaged Bond council yet. Um, there are, uh, a few different ways that you can go about, uh, doing [clears throat] this project. Um, Roger can speak on on on them. Um, DAS did change up their terminology. I guess that you do only ne have to go out for what? >> Go ahead, Roger. Yeah. the funding with the town. >> It used to be that they required two things that you that you put pass resolutions for your share and also for 100% of the of the cost of the building. U a number of years ago they changed
128that and now you're only required to go out for a resolution authorizing your share. Um it doesn't hurt if you want to go for the for the full 100. It it's up to you if it makes you feel more comfortable as a town, but it's not required by the state anymore. So, what I've done is I've had a preliminary conversation with our finance director uh with our bond council. Our bond council is fully recommending going out for the full ask of >> 2.8 sorry yeah 2.8 million whatever 2.8 million. Note the question at referendum that it's anticipated that uh 72.14% will be en will be reimbured at a tune of this amount of money. The town's expected obligation for this would be roughly $860,000. What I needed tonight from this board if this project was
129was had its support was go back to bond council get the formal resolutions prepared. I do have a date of March 24th. I did talk to the registars if that works for this board as well tonight before we spent any of the town's funds. I really wanted to get uh where the board felt we should go with bond counsel, obviously their recommendation of how we should word the question, but authorized me to to to speak with bond counsel, prepare the resolutions, and bring them back to the February 2nd meeting, which gives us plenty of time before we have to go to referendum on March 24th. >> All of this going towards a not this summer, but actually >> it'll be the following summer. Yeah. My my take on this is you'd be um not doing
130your due diligence if you didn't go for the full amount of the bond because the state always changes their mind and then we'd have to be back at the table again going to the taxpayers, hey, we got to bond out this much more. It's better to do the whole thing all at once and we don't have to worry about it. Well, we get reimbursed, we get reimbursed, it's a done deal. >> Ary, can you They're not going to hear you unfortunately. if you maybe want to stay next to select or >> I just do want to read something that that bond council did give us some clarification on. Um yes, the state passed some legislation last year that increased grant funding and changed some of the reimbursements for certain types of projects. As a general
131rule, the town will have to appropriate the entire amount of the project regardless of the source of those funds. And so you have to go out for the because that's what's in our charter, >> right? >> So, as for >> sources to finance the appropriation, we always suggest the full amount on bonds as well. This avoids any issues should the grant amount change the mayor just noted. It also allows the town to be um out in notes rather than out in front of the money. So, we can go out with short-term notes um for that full dollar amount in anticipation of, you know, having if we don't want to front the money, we can get we can get a short-term note to fund the project. So, >> for the amount of the bonds particularly >>
132for the for whatever the amount depending on how long the project is going to take, you know, you can go out for you can go out for the full amount or you can do whatever the cycle is. I'm anticipating the funds reimbursement back just knowing that we have to put out those dollars to get them back. The state is not going to front us the funds. So, we have to do a reimbursement. They are pretty quick, >> but sometimes they're not. So, >> and with having Roger will >> us fronting our own money is less investment income for the town's money. >> Correct. And I'll just also put out there, so if roughly our our share uh once we get this project completed and and we have our our share of uh uh the roof,
133I I just did a quick amort amortization schedule, $850,000 over 20 years, 4.5% roughly $69,500 a year as a debt service payment on that uh note. Just to throw a number out there, I think it's important to note. So, you know, you look at $850,000 million in roads, but you know, you spread it out over 20 years, you're only looking at roughly $69,000 uh a year. That's anticipating a lot. 4 and a.5% 20 years, all of that. But I thought it is important that the board at least has an idea of what what this is going to cost us every year for the next 20 years. >> The only problem with that with a long term like that is 20 years that you paid it off, we're going to have to do it again. Yeah,
134exactly. >> So, you don't have to do >> You don't have to do We're gonna You guys are going to authorize me and then I'm going to work with our our finance. I'm going to work with bond council. We're we're going to obviously put the town in the best condition to to finance this. Um, you know, knowing full well if somebody offers a 10-year, but it's a 2%. Look, we got to we got to get a project first and then we'll we'll figure it all out. Really? Tonight, I need to know the amount. I need to know March 24th, but it looks like there may be more. So before guidelines, >> so if I could because there's a little bit of my wheelhouse here, >> can I ask a couple questions on this? >> Sure.
135>> So full rip and repay uh replace price you're estimating 2.89. >> Not my estimate. No. >> Oh, okay. This is from this is from Garland. manufacturers of one of the products that's used in the roofing. They don't actually do the job or do it. >> They don't install, >> right? So, they're sort of a neutral party, you would say. >> So, you're you're familiar with the work that a company like this does, correct? >> I'm questioning this 2.8. Um, I see some stuff on here. Um, where's this? uh roof decking. I think this is a I don't know 21% of the to there there could be well more damage than that under I just did a large roof [snorts] last year and we were shocked when we when we opened it up. >> You
136won't really know until you do open it up. But right now what you're finding is just the moisture. Um, first off, I'm not an engineer and I'm not a roofing expert, but I've done for many years and I've run into most of the situations that we're may run into here. Even though there's moisture, there's a very good chance that much of the decking is still good. Okay, there might be some isolated pieces that have rusted and have to be removed. Um, what we also call for with the contractors, we have the architects or the engineers will put it into the uh into the bid specifications. They give us unit pricing. So if a problem is discovered, we have already a price from the contractor about what it's going to cost per sheet to replace it.
137So it's not something that they can get you on once it's found. It's already predetermined what they're going to pay. >> So one way to control the cost >> and I believe we have a 20% contingency in the 2.8. >> There's no I think more like 10% >> 10% contingency. Sorry, apologies. So there's a 10% contingency into this. So, you're looking at roughly $280,000 um in contingency money. If we do open up the roof and find a problem, you're going to be able to address a fair bit amount with a withholding a 10% contingency. And oh, keep in mind that when we go out, we're putting worst case scenario at the 2.8 $2.9 million number. We won't know until, you know, final submitts and all that. And that's when we'll go out and borrow the
138money. So that $850,000 that I figured might only be $700,000 because you know we didn't use the contingency. You don't use contingency. >> My point being is it could also be a little bit on the higher side. >> As far as I've seen in numbers going forward, okay, and and I just did two roofs down. Uh we did Watertown, we did Windsor Locks. Um, and what we're finding is the price works out to about, I think, $58 a square foot. Um, and the last couple roofs we did were in the high 40s to 50. And the state recommends that you at least carry 50. So, I still think our number or not our number, but the number that was given to us u is a little bit on the high side and is ample and
139would cover most anything that you run into. >> Okay. I I just want to be >> I want to be sure of that. There's Julie and I are gonna have a little conversation tomorrow. So, there's >> there's some other issues. Um there was just an emergency repair done at Pearson because there was no heat. There's been no heat in the cafeteria forever. Um I know for a fact that there's a roof unit that I'm sure is going to be pulled down. Um was abandoned. They didn't have the money to repair it. Didn't want to replace it. So they simply shut the heat off in the cafeteria. We're talking in the kitchen area, right? So the employees had no heat. Somebody made a gripe somewhere and yesterday while the school was closed, we had electricians go
140in. They installed two two 480 volt heaters to put some supplemental heat in there. But we're not sure that that's compliant, right? It's it's okay for now. Um there may need to be another rooftop unit added. My point being when that may be a discussion you need to have with the board of ed that like look you you had an estimate somewhere of like $88,000 for something that may be a unit that's a compliance issue that has to be added before we do this roof and strip and replace it and then find out. Okay, now we have to go back up on a roof, cut a huge hole in it, put a curb in, set another unit on it. It would be nice if if we could get some specifics on that before we put
141this type of investment. Just just a little forward thinking. >> Well, and this roof project isn't for a year and a half. So clearly whatever resolution we have to get to for heating in the kitchen would be before that. >> They need to tie in. Yeah. tell you what >> so we would have that information before >> I think you'll have a little time with with what was done in the in the in the kitchen area to get you by depending on which agency comes in >> on why it's so much colder this year than last year and maybe there's something we need to tinker with in the balancing I don't know >> well there's no heat in that area >> but there is in the cafeteria >> in in the cafeteria but not the
142kitchen >> and it used to keep the kitchen warm up until this year question >> well we can look into I just want to make Sure. These figures are We need more pizza days to get >> more hot lunch. [laughter] >> They got to bake. >> They have to bake more. >> Um that that's it, Paul. >> Okay. >> No, I first I'm hearing uh not that I get brought up to speed on, you know, a lot of the day-to-day stuff, but uh I agree. I think everybody agrees, Dr. Luby and I would agree that we're not going to put a brand new roof to then just cut it open. Um, the good news is we do have some time um before this project um puts a shovel in the ground. I know it's a
143roof and shovels don't go in roofs, but >> it's the best expression I can come up right now. Um, >> do you need a motion from us or >> not right now? I just need a little bit of guidance of >> move ahead. Go look at look into the >> Are you good with the March 24th? >> Yes. And are and the dollar amount that you want to get authorized by the vote >> 2898670. >> Yep. >> 2898. Okay. You want to take the high number which I recommend as well. I'll bring it back to the February 2nd meeting. We'll have it all uh bond councilled up with resolutions and and we'll we'll hit that. The next question I I needed to ask um it was from the registars is will we accept a paper
144ballot on this particular one keeping in mind if we go to a non-paper I know they're all paper but a paper ballots either a yes no with a check mark. If we go to any other form of ballot that goes to the machine there is a cost to that because you have to buy these certain ballots. um what is the board's preference on the ballot and keeping in mind we are thinking of holding the referendum here >> uh because schools are open um we've done it before for capital projects um Hester you're very familiar when we do water and sewer projects um these are all you thought you were done with my questions but we're not um because I want to get it all you know in a nice bow tie for you for the
145February 2nd meeting first question paper ballot. >> So before we, as I recall, when we had the budget referendum last year, there was a controversy because we used paper ballots. So let's make sure whatever we're doing is legal to start with. >> We did do that. The charter uh uh specifically says that it must be done, you know, by machine ballot. When it comes to capital purchases, the charter is silent. But I didn't want to make a decision without the board's backing. >> The advantage to paper over the machines is >> $5,000. >> This costs nothing. >> There's a cost to it, but a paper ballot we make, you know, inhouse. We put the question. We have two boxes. Yes. No. They check a box that goes into So, >> that's what we did today.
146>> Thank you. >> I'd be in favor I'd be in favor of the paper ballot. >> We'll double check. Um, but we've looked already and it seems paper ballot would fly. But I wanted the board's authorization um on the paper ballot and are you okay with voting taking place at town hall? >> Yes. Okay. >> Thought of more questions. See after we met. >> Um I have my marching orders. February. >> You okay? >> Okay. >> We almost lost our finance director. >> Moving on to item C. Potential preschool expansion. >> We're good. Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Yep. >> Um, so this is a little more fun to talk about. Although with this audience, I'm not sure anything is fun to talk about. [laughter] >> Wow, >> you're a tough
147crowd. You know that, right? Um, but this is forward thinking and exciting and free. So that's not something you hear every day. >> I'm intrigued with free. So let's hear it. So listen, I I would not be a superintendent worthy of her role if I didn't bring this to you. You say no, you say no. But as we were just discussing for the roof, our reimbursement rate is 70 72%. This year, in an effort to support its initiatives, the state has offered two different bonuses that we're eligible for. The first is a 15% construction bonus for special education and the other, there's lots of these, but the ones that apply to what I'm talking about. The other is also 15% and it is for early childhood programming. What I'd like to talk to you about
148is a potential preschool expansion because it is a special education program and early childhood. We are eligible for our 70 and the 15 and the 15. They are stackable. I've communicated with DAS. I have that in writing in an email. That's a real thing. If our percent is up to 72, then it would be reduced to 100. You can't go beyond 100% reimbursement. That'd be pretty funny if they'd pay us to build it, right? Um, so knowing that we are eligible for 100% reimbursement, I bring you a concept that I think would be great for the town. Um and again at no cost to us really. The concept is that we would add um three preschool classrooms. Um I had a very gracious um architect and engineer who joined me at Hinsdale School to walk
149around and consider if there were places at no charge to us um where we could easily do this without disrupting education in the meanwhile, without having to move roads and all of that. They um I believe gave a very rough sketch. Um again, they're just doing this as a favor, so it's not like architectural drawings, but I believe it's in your packet. The concept is the um rooms would go on in front of the school where the preschool playground is now as part of the project. There's a spot we can move the playground behind the school, which actually to me is probably a smarter place to have a preschool playground, not right there by your driveway and buses and all of that. um well not your buses, they don't go through there, but the cars.
150Um so with the addition of those three classrooms, we would be able to provide universal free preschool for every fouryear-old in Winchester. The idea is school would basically start a year earlier. Instead of starting when kids are five, we would start at four. Um, you're probably familiar. There is so much research out there that the earlier you start with kids, the more you get them involved with books and numbers and songs and phmic awareness and all of that from the earliest of ages, um, better outcomes. And I can come back to you at a future point if you'd like with tons of data around um the dropout rate goes down, future earnings go up, but all of the indicators for um early learning have great outcomes for communities, kids, families, um and their future. So
151the concept would be in with the addition of those classrooms, we offer free preschool for all of our four-year-olds. If um there were a year where we didn't fill every single seat, we would offer empty seats to neighboring communities for fee, so we would even have a little bit of income from that. Um we would maintain one classroom for three-year-olds because there are some three-year-olds um because they have special education programs that we need to have a setting for, but one classroom would meet that. Um currently we have 32 full day seats and 32 half day seats. This would allow us to have um closer to 100 seats. Not doing the math while I sit here. Um the concept is that it's an investment in the future for the individual students who participate because they
152become school ready sooner and again they go further in life. They don't drop out. They make more money. They go to college. Um great for the community to be able to promote. Um, I know we've got a realtor in the room who could probably tell us having universal free preschool for all four-year-olds can't help but promote property values. Um, and another key piece, and perhaps you'll appreciate this because it's a board of ed budget piece, the sooner we start working with kids, the more likely it is that we can meet their needs, get them on track, and avoid future significant special education outplacements, which come with, you know, a $200 placement and a $75,000 transportation bill. You know, imagine if one student didn't require an outplacement because they attended our preschool. Right there, you've just
153saved over $250,000. So, um, from an investment standpoint, it's smart. From a cost standpoint, it's really smart. And from a learning standpoint, it's really smart. >> That's all I got. >> So, I got a question for you. Actually, two. Um the first one is is there any room in any existing school buildings now that could house this program? >> No, we are at capacity for sure. >> Um the other thing I was going to say to you is I don't think that after Paul and I spoke last at least I don't think I'm asking you tonight to just say yeah go ahead and apply and do the preschool. I think what we're asking is to use um you remember last year your budget allocation for us to do the research on the roof project was
154stated as um capital >> for that capital improvement plan. It was a $50,000 line item. Um >> we didn't spend it all. >> We spent, as you saw Amarie said, we spent about $4,000. We spent a little bit more because there was the asbestous test and then then there was also the moisture scan. I think we spent just under $10,000 on all that. So there's roughly $40,000 uh remaining in that capital account which will not be spent as we will move forward with the roofing project and the 2.8 encompasses engineering all the design work and all of that. Julie and I met last Thursday. If the board had somewhat of an appetite for the preschool uh program, we would ask that we use roughly 36 [clears throat] to $40,000 and get a little bit more
155real um design cost estimates. The next step of this is is is a schematic design. We would bring in uh a Downs Construction who does this, you know, for a living. In fact, they just did this project in Weathersfield, Connecticut. Um they were uh able to do the 70 plus the 15. Um they were able to uh launch a prek program in Weathersfield. More information I found out this weekend after talking with DS. Um really it was is what is the next step that the board would like? Obviously I we can't go to the voters and say well we think it's I don't know like three 4 million. We have to bring in the professionals. To bring in professionals it costs money. Um the program right now as Dr. Lubie stated um the 70 +
15615 + 15 does expire June 30th if we apply to it. I have reached out to state contacts. We met late last week. There was a holiday obviously this past Monday. I have not heard back to see if there's uh a chance of it continuing. I'm somewhat positive because we are in a bianual budget. So usually grants continue in a bannual budget. But I want to get uh double check on it. But um really tonight, as Dr. Lubie and I talked about last week was does the board have an appetite. Does the board want to give us the go-ahad to to use that capital uh account to, you know, vet this project out a little bit more? >> Did you have another question? >> Yeah, I had a couple questions and I got ran over
157question. Sorry, I didn't mean Okay. Uh my next question is what happens when the bond money goes bye-bye? or the or the the the free money that for the class >> free money is only for construction. >> It's for the construction. >> So, we have to pay for teachers. >> We're going to have to >> there is um the early start grant will come out again um during the time that we're building. The state will issue the opportunity for us to apply for early start seats which they fund at $90,000 um a classroom. So, and we should 100% be eligible for that because we hit all of the marks in terms of we are in what they call a childare desert. Funny little term. We are in the child care desert. We have our poverty
158rate. We have all of the indicators that we should be able to get ourselves potentially three teachers, if not all three for the new classrooms, at least a couple of those through that grant. So, I don't anticipate having to hire teachers for all of those on our dime. >> Okay. And then, um, is this going to be for Winston kids only? >> It would be free for Winstead kids only. They would get the seats first. And by Winstead, you mean all Winchester, of course. >> Yes. And say from Northwork or >> Exactly. >> wanted to come, then you're going to charge them. >> Exactly. >> Okay. So, following up on his question about ongoing expenses for a second, >> can we So, you need three teachers, right? Essentially, one for each classroom. Is that approximately
15990,000? Is that what the teachers >> You're going to need more than one kids, little kids. >> A first year teacher makes 45 assume she takes benefits, so she's 60 and an assistant in the room is 20. So, it would be roughly 80. So 80,000 per classroom is the ongoing cost of doing it >> if we didn't get a grant for it, which I'm relatively certain we could. >> But the grant is for how long? I mean, the grant is annual, happens every year or we get it for the first two years and then suddenly we have a we have 90,000 per classroom is is the extra expense for Board of Edna. >> School readiness once you get it has been in existence for probably I don't know 15 20 years. It's the first time
160they're reopening it in a long time, but once you get it, you have it. And the state actually created an endowment to support their early childhood funding. So, of all the state money, this isn't one that you have to keep reapplying for. Like, once you have the seats, they're yours. And it is has full commitment from the state. They are. So, one of the pieces is the state is, as you can see, throwing money at early childhood. They are trying to get districts to do exactly this because the research is so clear on how valuable it is for a community. It's not crazy to think that in time we'll be required to do universal preschool. That is sort of what's in the tea leaves. >> So, you know, maybe they won't, but if they do,
161then then we're doing this without funding. So, it's sort of like a this is such a good thing to do and it's 100% funded, so why wouldn't we get out in front of it? if we have an appetite to my twisty little sense thinks if we went to bond for the not to bond to referendum for the roof in this together yes it's a lot of money but like a roof is just so blah and if we did a roof and a preschool and you're getting both for the $840,000 now that's something right >> so let just just to be clear let me rephrase my question what exposure from a financial standpoint let's assume everything happens we get the 35th we get the 701 1515 15 that all gets that all happens. >> You get
162the other uh grant that pays for the teachers. What are the expenses that we are for the lack of a better term signing up for if we did this project? >> So the only things that are re unreimburseable or ineligible within the project um with a project like this very little. you can expect um probably about $100,000 of ineligible costs um during the project which again wouldn't be you know this is like way forward planning we apply by June 30 we don't even know for sure that it's been approved from the priority list until I think it's like November December they tell you you're not breaking ground for another year from then so it's a multi-year process beyond that a few thousand dollars of um consumable supplies eyes each year, you know, glue sticks and
163crayons. >> I just want to make sure we all understand what we're >> what we're exposing the town budget to in terms of ongoing expenses >> beyond [clears throat] all of the >> money the state's going to just pour on us, but >> Exactly. minimal. >> So, and and and how do we control this? You're saying a teacher and assistant if all of a sudden there's a situation where well, we have a couple four-year-olds. We need we need three more assistants. Um >> well that's what we do in our >> do we need more do we need more maintenance staff now >> um >> what what's the impact on utilities >> 3700 square feet roughly the addition so I mean you know better than me would you be adding a custodian for 3700 square feet
164I wouldn't think so >> maybe you're bumping up your >> Would I be Would I be adding a custodian? No, >> I don't think we would either. I mean, we have a halftime guy. Would we maybe bump him up an extra hour a night or something? >> Maybe. I mean, not extensively. >> The only concern I have is So, okay. So, now we do this and now Winston's an attraction for families with children. So, where are we going to put them? Because you just told me we have no place to put any extra kids. Now, now what do we do? We build a $80,000 or $80 million school. I mean, this is we got to be real here. We gave up bachelor school, which was a terrible move. >> Okay. >> My other businesses, right?
165>> Huh? >> Other area businesses, right? When when Little Owls opened, it was a great thing, but it but it put a strain on Winston area childcare. It ended up moving students up to the one center and actually shut base down. Um, Champs, the original program was at the YMCA. As soon as they opened that up, it it shut that down and and uh they were no longer able to keep that program up. What's this going to do to Winstead Area Childare, any other home daycarees and >> shut them down >> and whatnot around? >> So, our plan, our concept again is with taking all of the four-year-olds. So, we'd actually be taking less three-year-olds than we do now. So there'd be a little bit of a shift of who goes where, but I think
166our feeling is what we're providing and we are working towards our NYAK accreditation is an academic setting. It's school readiness. It's familiarity with our schools, getting kids a year earlier on the pathway and we think that that's valuable. >> Is this a requirement of parents? In other words, you know, you have to send your kid to kindergarten and first grade. Do you have to send your kid to this fourth four-year-old program? >> You don't. >> Okay. you don't. >> We will strongly encourage it. I mean, we do think we could do a great job at lifting the learning level of all kids this way. >> So, let me ask you this. We started the preschool program a couple years ago, about three, four years ago. Have you noticed the an improvement with our first and
167second graders because we've had that preschool program? >> That's such an interesting question. I'm not aware that we are brand new in the preschool business. Yeah, we didn't start that until about four years ago. We started doing the preschool. >> I can do a little research and find out, but that's the first I've ever heard that. >> I'm surprised we didn't have preschool. How could we not? >> Now, why are you saying that you think there's a concern that we're going to be required to do this preschool? >> So, the talk around the state is all about early childhood and universal prek. Currently, the talk that I've heard from people that I've spoken with is, well, as long as there's seats somewhere for all three and four year olds to begin school at age three.
168Um, but there's just so much movement around it and so much certainty about the importance of the early learning that, you know, it sure does seem like we're headed in that direction. So you're saying the state you think is going to mandate that >> all parents eventually send their three-year-olds to a >> So that's a little bit of a different statement. I think it's not unlikely that at some point the state will require us to offer >> and have a seat. You know, kind of like they say you have to have a seat on the bus for everybody who wants to ride the bus. Whether or not they take it is up to them. My crystal ball would be that the state at some point is going to tell us you have to take every
169three and fouryear-old who wants to come or every four-year-old that wants to come. Um I would be really surprised if they mandated parents had to send them sooner. In fact, we just made the kindergarten not we the state just made the kindergarten entrance later. >> So I would be surprised if they made families. So we're developing we're developing Wallins Hill over the next few years which is going to bring a lot of lot more families to town, right? So and that's going of course increase our grand list and help all of our revenue issues and that's going to bring more people. So we have even the potential of opportunity to for free add extra space to our schools be a little bit of forward thinking to expand the space in our schools as we expand
170the town and expand the residents who live here. >> But if you take this 30% bonus for special ed and early child care. My guess is to what I think Selectman Bishop is talking about. You can't slide these classrooms to be second or third grade classrooms in two years if you have the capacity issue. >> So, as he said that, I was just thinking the same thing you're wondering. I certain you have to do what you took the grant money for for some amount of time. And I could find out. >> I thought the same thing. Maybe this is an emergency way to to have a few extra classrooms when capacity gets there. My guess is anytime you take money with all these hooks attached to it, you've got to do what they want you
171to do. >> Not forever, though. I It's an interesting point that if we start, we do this thing and we start our preschool. If as the community grows, we need an extra kindergarten. I suspect in time we could turn one prek into a kindergarten and then one kindergarten, you know, like right now we have one bubble class moving through. >> Are our schools at capacity right now building wise? Um, there are no empty rooms. There is a small number of rooms that are potentially like if you know to Troy's point like what happens if more people move here? Um, you know, right now there is a preschool run by an advance in Pearson school. So those kids potentially would be at Hinsdale School. We'll open one room at Pearson School. I came to the what
172board did I come to? planning and zoning. >> Thank you. Because they were asking um questions about that and I don't have those notes in front of me right now, but you know there's so there's that one preschool room at Pearson that would open up. There's also like one special ed program that we are running across two classrooms because it keeps it functioning really well, but if we had to could go back into one classroom, you know, we would have to start undoing programs and moving things. We could squeeze out probably threeish classrooms at Pearson Hinsdale. We're probably we have one room that's in that we would repurpose into this preschool concept, thus only building the three that would give us the seventh that we want. Um >> so we're we're tight. >> We are
173tight. >> We're tight. So we get >> an extra room or two at each. If community grows, which is all what we want to see happen, >> your tax bill is going to grow. >> Well, your community paid, you know, you distribute the taxes among the community. But the the reality is we're going to be faced with a problem from a school perspective. We're not >> regardless of whether or not we >> we're going to miss that school we sold for sure. >> A day late and a dollar short. I came after Paul. I'm like, don't get rid of that. >> I missed I was put in motion. >> We all came after that. >> I was put for the way. We all came out. >> I had all kinds of ideas. >> But um
174interesting. Okay. Thank you. >> Let me let me ask one question. Um so you just said that if you get this grant for to build these three classrooms and I believe a playground or whatever, correct? >> Yes. >> That's what you'd have to maintain for preschool, but you could probably use for the pre-existing classrooms. >> Yes. >> Convert them to other grades if necessary. As long as you keep that core that you got the grant for. Correct. I think that is almost certainly accurate. I would do my homework before I swore it, but that does actually sound very reasonable. >> How full are the current rooms though that you're using for preschool, right? Because if you close that to shift into this, is it fill those immediately? >> So we So for as many full
175day seats as we'll offer, we can fill them. But we are opting currently [cough] to run two full day classrooms at 16 kids in a room, which I really think is a lot. I would like to cap them at 14, but we want to take kids. So, we have 16 and 16. Our half day classes don't fill as well because people really need the full day programming. Um, so we have 16 16 and I'll say another like 18 to 20 probably across the other two rooms. The plan isn't to open the three and close the others. It's to run seven preschool classrooms in all. >> Um, one one last thing. I think you know, school roofs get done all the time. That money that reimbursement happens often. I think we can very confident that we're
176going to get that money right for this project. How confident are you that this actually happens in terms of this bonus money that you're talking about? >> 100%. It was legislated and I have an email that I'd be happy to forward to Paul that he could share with you where um the people in DAS articulate that for special education your pro it sounds like what you're doing would meet this for pre uh early childhood what you're doing would meet this. They are like we learned about them because they were presented to us through legislative briefings, through caps. They're not like offbook little fly by nights there. >> Yeah. Because that 30% if you're if you're doing a $4 million project, which is probably what this is going to cost. >> We think about 3.5. Yeah.
177You're spot on, >> right? So now you're we're we're on the hook for a million bucks if you don't get that money. >> But it's it is legislated. I mean, it's >> okay. Just >> Yep. >> And if we don't, >> we we always hear we're getting things. want to make sure that somewhere you've got it like it's in writing guaranteed we're getting this money. >> I could bring you the um general statute numbers like it's legitimate. >> Okay. Sorry. >> I was going to say we make sure it's in writing before we move on. >> You wouldn't break ground if I mean it. >> Yeah. But you're asking me to get this on a on a referendum potentially with the roof in 45 days here >> or not. I don't know if that's smart
178or not. Smart. That's that's like outside of my scope. >> But we do have a deadline to apply. We would have to apply for this before June 30th. >> Can we meet that deadline? That was my other question. I wrote down June 30th. >> Yes. I actually been picking Roger's brain about it a little bit. I'll take any favor from anyone who wants to give me free advice. Um yes, we could. If you all had an appetite, we would get our um schematics quickly so that if we're going to go out to the voters and say, "Hey, we want to spend $ three and half million dollars on a [snorts] preschool, but it's going to cost you nothing. [clears throat] And here's what it would look like." can have the pretty board and have a
179little more realistic drawings. >> So, so Paul, I I know you're chewing at the bit, but we just finished doing uh Hinsdale School, didn't we? [cough] >> How long ago? Brand new school, refurbished, >> and now it's not big enough already. >> Yeah. >> So, they only let you build to your enrollment. Like, you're never allowed to do a construction project and have extra space. So, it's not surprising that it's at capacity. I can't blame the guy before me for that. Right. So, it's just it's just kind of a shame that somebody didn't for uh think this ahead before when they were designing to school. But, there is going to be some cost because we're going to have to move the playground. I think something about the driveway too has to be scooted. If I
180remember from the board of education meeting, the driveway has to get shifted a little bit because there might not be enough room right there. >> Is that all reimburseable in the construction? >> Should be reimbursable as part of the project and we would confirm that. >> I just think it's not that I'm against it. It's just a shame that it just wasn't done beforehand. And how much is the bond that we still owe on that for? >> If we didn't have the capacity, we couldn't have done it. >> That's the problem. >> And they weren't offering 100% re. Keep in mind that would have been at that point to say we want to add these extra preschool classrooms to the project. At best, it would have been at 70%. >> But you're you're kind of
181already there with your students now in capacity by the sounds of it. >> So, >> well, the preschool is optional. We're only required to have enough to create classrooms for kids with [clears throat] IEPs and play partners. This is more about vision and what we want for our community and the idea that >> it would be phenomenal to offer every four-year-old in town the ability to be there. We don't we're not obligated to do that though. >> So, if we authorize the 30,000 or so from the funds from last budget to get more information, could we get more information like proper whatever and meet this deadline? Um, we can probably make the deadline. I don't want to be Debbie Downer, but I don't believe we will hit a March 24th deadline. Having built two buildings
182recently in my past schematic design, getting together a budget proposal, it it does take some time, you would be looking at potentially a May uh referendum time, but you know, you you got to you got to dial in concrete numbers. So, we can make a June 30th deadline. Um, potentially I I need to reach out to, you know, Julie and I can reach out to all the different GCs that are out there to to get this moving. I I need to say something just because I I have to and it's um we're we're leading with potentially offering all of our kids free preK. If the town has um a lot of four year olds, um we may have to go to a lottery system, you know, if we have outrageous amounts of, you know, I
183I I think it's important that if you know, I I I [laughter] look at the town that I I live in, we have a lottery system. We have three and four. But um yeah, it's great to go out with potentially, you know, having free prek for our four-year-olds, but if we get, let's see, I'm doing the math. You have a 100, then you have those, you have 225 kids, we may not have the room. >> Well, so we do a lottery currently because we really don't have the room. But I will say to you, our grade levels are 80 kids a grade. Have been for 10 years, probably will be for 10 years. You know, if we start doing great things and the community grows, it would go up. But with six classrooms at 16
184kids, which I don't love, we have 96 seats. We have an out of grade level of 96 kids ever, as far as I know. If we kept it at 14, we'd still have 84 seats, which like our coming into kindergarten, we're usually right around 70 to 75 kids. I mean, it's it is planned to meet the needs of the community as we know it. Now, if you all start building a million >> and there's where I come in. I'm looking [cough] potentially at, you know, 14. Exactly. It's going to be a problem in every grade. Which now leads me down my second path is we're looking at potentially three classrooms and for foury olds as a parent that has put one child through preK 3 and four and currently a child that's in preK3 and
185you're talking potentially 100% reimbursement. Do you potentially look at adding three addition when you know if we can unlock all the money go big or go home. >> Um does the board have an appetite to start entertaining as a parent that has seen you know a child that graduated from uh a birth to three with an IEP going in the prek three going in the pre-K4 and now in the second grade and literally blossoming. Um it again I'm picking off of what Select Hester said. Why didn't we have the for the foresight? Why didn't So if you're going to do a project and there's potentially quote unquote state state mandates that may come down may come down the pipeline. If you're going to spend money, should we be looking at a bigger program? This just
186came on Thursday. question then while adding three-year-old and right now she's >> I am not a board of ed expert but I'm just saying go big or >> I want to make sure I'm clear on the question right now you proposed fouryear-old prek I think he's suggesting should we be looking at three and four and to the go big now you're doing six rooms rather than three rooms but maybe we are ahead of the curve and not getting mandated to do this on our dime in three years >> you don't have room in that area for six rooms all right >> well All right. So, the spot where we were looking at, the very kind gentleman from H2M who walked with me and we looked at like, could you do that little strip behind where
187we're thinking we would move the preschool playground? No, you can't fit rooms. There were some really creative ideas about the property next door, the people who hate [clears throat] us because we're always blocking their driveway. If they would sell us the strip where their um barn is closest to the school, we could put the whole thing right there. Um, there was also an area near coming off of the cafeteria where he thought that there was potential to. So, no, we could only put three right there. That was really as much as you're going to get in that spot, but there were a couple of other possibilities. We could certainly um do that next level of exploration and come back to you with plan A and plan B. >> Can we do that for the next
188meeting because I know time's of the essence here. So I don't want to >> let let me just come right out and say you're not going to have that in two weeks to to to fully vet a project of this magnitude with the experts um whether it's you know downs construction or a litany of of firms. You know there's a lot of work that goes into this and it's it it won't come back and this is great because it gives you a concept but now we got to move from concept to design phase schematic design. There's a lot more. >> No, for tonight's purpose, I would like >> with that for six. You know, I suspect >> for tonight's purposes, I don't want to taint the roof project with this project. I think we we
189voted on the roof project. I'd like to get more or we didn't vote, but we we discussed to move ahead on the roof project. I'd like to get more information um on this before I made a decision on this one. So, um I think that's where we got to leave it for today. >> Yeah. I don't know if I'm comfortable authorizing 40 grand till we have someone to guarantee some of the answers and and and >> well the money there there's got to be cost, right? Again, we say everything it's all free. I've heard it's all free. >> The only forever there's always costs are like if you change your mind during the project, those kinds of change orders that are like our fault are ineligible. the interest on bonds that you take are ineligible.
190Paul seemed to think that we would because this is 100% reimburseable largely be able to float the project oursel if I recall what you said. So we probably wouldn't have a lot of interest >> depending on the budget year. I mean you saw the the the g you know the the the undesated is roughly $19 million but right now I'm comfortable but we you know we hit a big >> but is we can we can fund projects and Um, >> so we don't know that for sure that it expires on June 30th, right? >> We don't know the answer to that. Um, I've reached out again, this was after uh Dr. Lubby and I met um to get some sense of uh does it expire on June 30th? But uh again, just uh Sleman Poso's
191uh point um not feel >> next time we could go out though is a full year later. It's a June 30 priority budget. Like they do their projects in one-year cycles. So if the state reauthorizes the grant again, which is Paul's saying might happen. It's not that it expires. It's like it's a this fiscal year offering. If they offered it again, we would be applying in next year's priority grant application. It would be a whole year before, you know, it would push everything a year. So, I just to maybe again kind of move this thing forward a little bit. Um, when I suggested in two weeks come back to see if you want to do three and four year olds rather than just four year olds, I was imagining you'd get your friend who was
192kind enough to walk around the properties with you and see if there's a place for three others, whether it's at Hinsdale or maybe even it's at Pearson, I don't know, right? But anyway, so that we could at least explore the concept of adding three-year-old to it and then in two weeks we can discuss this further and decide whether we want to authorize some of the leftover money that we authorized for the roof to really dig into the study of this or whatever we're spending that money on the actual architectural and and what have you. But I think it's an interesting question about whether three-year-olds should be part of it and we don't know the answer to that. Well, we may know the answer to that, but we don't know where you can put it. So,
193maybe in the next few weeks, we can get some thought about whether, like you said, plan A or plan B. Should it be just four-year-olds? Should we be should we have enough foresight to maybe not do what Bill was talking about and have, you know, something we we're we're sitting here next year with, hey, great news. It's not quite free this time, but we have to do it. So, >> have to pass referendum by June 30th under this deadline, or just have to apply. One of the other questions that came up is do we need all the all of the authorizations in place um to submit the application? We're hearing that all of the uh >> child >> yeah commitments have to be in place by June 30th. Um and to get you know Dr.
194Lubby and I met last week and you know there there's rough numbers but you know we're talking reimbursement. I don't feel comfortable going out to referendum with might be 32, might be 34. I I need to bring in experts and you know, like I don't know where my roof stuff is, but we we had experts come out weigh in on worst case scenario $2.9 million. It's on paper. You know, I do want to bring in a GC company to to to look at the project. Um, you know, H2M >> H2M to Select Marino's point could say, "Yep, you could drop in, you know, classrooms here." Um, great. It's, you know, I I could do it for you, too. Um, potentially, but I I if you want to see if this project's viable, my opinion, it's
195up to the board is you do want to bring the experts in and have them to start weighing in on, you know, can this be built here? Can it not? They're going to go out, they're going to, you know, they'll do uh uh borings under the ground to even see if you can build on that particular [clears throat] um area. And and that becomes a factor. you know that ground may be hollow ran into it all soil may be contaminated everything we're going to know all of that um prior to and that's why I believe we're at a a stage of spending money to bring in the experts to say you can do it here you can't do it you get you know the soil >> boring test is important >> becomes reimburseable if you
196do the project if you don't do the project then it's research money but if you do the project that becomes an eligible I did not know that. >> All right. Do you have any funds within your budget that could handle this? >> We do. We have remaining money from >> So why not authorized to do that? Have the money for this type of thing? >> So, as I said a little bit earlier, this board did set aside $50,000 for um it was loaded in the budget for it was loaded in the budget as a line item. And I apologize it's not in front [snorts] of me, but it was uh board of ed capital of improvement uh line item $50,000 right >> during the conversation of last year's budget that was meant for the Pearson
197route. I did not feel comfortable just saying well we only spent 10 Julie go spend the 40 I think you know as a town manager I want to be locksteppep with the board of selectman that you prior board did say $50,000 for the Pearson roof I don't feel comfortable putting my head on the pillow saying no it's prek [cough] thing I I I just want >> technically if it's in the capital if the line item's capital >> y >> this is capital >> correct >> they don't need our authorization utilize it. >> Well, it was approved for the roof, >> but that's budget, not my budget. >> It's in the town's budget. She's correct. Yeah. So, it's in the town budget. >> One quick thing before we make a decision. Vote on this. >> I'm
198I'm going to talk to you tomorrow about a figure you heard today about a potential $88,000 heat problem. >> Well, there's Where's that going to come from? Say, say we discuss tomorrow, we look we bring somebody in, we say, "Yeah, Julie, you do need $88,000 worth of to be compliant." Heat. Where's that where's that 88 grand coming from? >> I'm I'm just saying >> I haven't had an opportunity to research that. I got that today and I'm very skeptical that we would actually need to do that. But >> Right. But it might be 50. I I'm You You do need some repair, right? Is just what I'm saying. >> I I'm not convinced. We heat. >> But do we want to make the decision on this 40 grand? What if you and I meet tomorrow?
199We take a look at this. We bring somebody in. We say, "Yeah, you do need 50." And we just committed that 40. Where's that? I'm just ask them where's that where's that 50 coming from or 30 say it's 30 even >> well beat this one to death >> if it becomes if it becomes an issue and we do need to replace a uh a heating system on that roof. Um we'll scour the the the budgets and you know it's the same thing when we had to replace the the boiler last year the I think it was $585,000. We figured it out. We worked together. We got it done. Um, if there's a problem, and obviously we want our employees andor uh kids to be warm, we'll address it. Um, listen, $30,000 I'm like, hey, that's
200an easy problem. Fine. I can I can I can find that. >> All right. If if you're comfortable, >> as long as as long as we don't have to go out and ask for an additional 30 is what I'm saying. >> So, the question then really is this. We could say tonight if everybody wanted to do that, you can spend X number of dollars to get the schematics and everything you need for the four-year-old only program. [cough] Or we could table this for two weeks and let you try to get the architect out to walk through the other, you know, the rest of the school, the other school, and see if do we have an appetite for the three and fouryear program. Right? That's the only thing I'm trying to understand is because um we
201just don't want to get caught. >> We could probably do that as part of doing the schematics and things that >> So you got the approval today from us to use the funds to do the schematics. You could have the answers to both those questions in that time because I'm also looking at it going back to the point about the schools being, you know, almost full. Again, we have the current classrooms. So when we to put more classrooms into the preschool program, that also will free up those classrooms for other age kids if we need that. >> So that's how much money the schematic thing >> schematic roughly um early estimates 36 to $40,000 >> for the remainder of the fund. So, yeah, >> just so happened to be the remainder of just so happened
202to be >> um you know, and this this was a a phone conversation on a Saturday afternoon that it's roughly, you know, 35 to $40,000 is what was the number that was thrown. Um we would obviously, you know, uh have to go to bid on it. Um I have to look at your purchasing guidelines. I'll have to look at that. But uh actually it's on the town side, so I'll have to go to bid because it's over 12 grand, but um so we'll go to bid. Um find out a particular company that will do the schematic design. Um it'll be an open process. Obviously, it may not be 36 because it'll be a a bid uh threshold, but we would need at least the authorization that we could >> This investment of doing this now
203[cough] gives us is reimburseable. Here's your money for the new furnace, whatever. I mean, the heating up. I mean, it's it's it just it sounds like a great way for us to be ahead of the game. Provide us with this um the extra classrooms we're likely going to need since we're bringing new housing into the town. I mean, we've got the main street properties bringing housing. We got wallins out. I mean, we bringing new housing which are going to be filled with families. You know, we know some of them are. That's the whole plan with wallins. So, you know, let's be proactive. And if it's 100% reimburseable, it's almost like a stupid thing to say no to it. >> That's that's a very uh that's a very small initial investment. We find out that it's
204you know I mean we're growing. We want to grow. I mean that's our whole thing, right? We want the more people we bring we need space for them. We need space for those families. Bringing those people will increase you know our revenue which is the ultimate issue. I mean I feel like our town is like just ready to like really take off and we need to think ahead a couple steps like Mr. Reno was saying and like be ready for that. >> All right. Do we have a motion? >> I'll do a motion to approve use of the 40,000 capital funds that were in the current budget to be used to start the process of creating the I can't say that word. >> Schematic um necessary to present to the board hopefully by the next
205meeting. Well, that won't be the next meeting, but it'll be >> I don't know. >> She She thought she might be able to do it by the next meeting. So, >> no. No. >> Oh, I thought you said >> No, that was my That was >> I can get some money to walk around. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. So, soon as possible. >> Can I just one correction up to $40,000? >> Up to $40,000. >> Yep. Just >> Yep. >> Good. We have a motion. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Any further discussion? Seeing no discussion. All in favor? Opposed? 43. Did that pass? >> Yes. Okay. Thank you. I couldn't count hands fast enough. >> Thank you for the discussion, the opportunity, the support. Um, >> we'll talk. >> Yes. You know, >>
206we got a lot. Yeah, we got a lot to talk. Yeah, we got a lot to do. Now, >> moving on to item D 2601. Refunds as recommended by the collector of revenue. [clears throat] Can I just read it, >> please? I move that the board of select would authorize the refunds recommended by the collector of revenue in the amount of $94757. >> Thank you. Is there a second? >> Second. All in favor? >> Unanimous. Item 12 >> 9 at 9:52 PM a motion to go into executive session. >> So moved >> taking along the town attorney. >> First discuss you got it. Reasons you're going to executive session. They're listed on your agenda. Who you're bringing into executive session and which who's going in for which parts. >> So I move that we go
207into executive session for the discussion uh and possible action on 48 Bridge Street. discussion regarding the Smolock case and discussion regarding ratification of union contracts. We will be bringing with us attorney Nelligan, town manager Harrington, and Dave Satarini. >> Yes. Further bridge street discussion. >> Is there a second? >> Sorry, pronounced it wrong, but >> second. All in favor? >> Unanimous. 953. >> You gonna make it through the meeting? >> Oh, I couldn't >> start. >> Hopefully they're all Hey, >> I know you got you guys are >> good. >> So, number three out. >> Yeah, just to point out that they've been aware since August and it's only because we sent you that email. >> Okay. >> But these are the >> [cough] >> How short is We are back from executive session at
20810:38 Moving on to 13, new business. Item A, discussion, possible action regarding the small act case. Do we have a motion? I move that the board of selectmen approve the stipulation regarding the disposition of dogs as reviewed by town council and authorized the town manager to execute the stipulation on behalf of the town of Winchester. We >> have a second. >> Second. >> Thank you, Troy. Any discussion? >> Mr. Mayor, if I may uh add a little bit because I see that the a crowd has uh stayed with us and I'm uh proud of this crowd. Um most people wouldn't um stick around for this lengthy of a meeting and it was not done on purpose. There was a lot of business to get done tonight, but there was a a list of uh requests
209um that was submitted with the binder that you provided um as stated during public input that we understand where Briggsby is. um he is with and it's been confirmed with the Simon Foundation that Briggsby that is you know a request that the town um had been working on um and it is where you know you all wanted not saying you're going to get everything. Another request was that um negotiating a surrender of all the dogs required that the surrender surrender uh free and clear with no terms that permit or guarantee ownership of adoption by individuals associated with Smollex. The stipulation that the board of selectman is about to vote on states that these dogs are open for adoption and there's no first right or refusal on any of these dogs. Okay? There is none. All
210right? They are going to be vetted by the acco and the acco feels that that is the best environment for that dog. Um if such I don't even need to go to the second one because I already addressed the first one. Briggsby where we already took care of and then execute necessary paperwork over the ownership of Ike to the Simon Foundation. Do you guys have Ike right now? >> He is with Foster. Are you looking to bring Ike back into the foster or back into Simon or stay with the existing foster? >> They would like to adopt. So that's an example of then they can apply for adoption. Um, and obviously, you know, if they've checked all of the boxes, Ike will then be, you know, uh, adopted by that particular family. So, when I
211look at the four demands and I look at the stipulation that the board is about to vote on, I would say the town did, I'm going to use a word, a pretty damn good job that we were able to meet the request. But, this has been working in the background for several weeks. There are countless hours that have been poured into this. I stated publicly at several court assment meetings that I am a dog lover. This was not something that ever got pushed off to the side. When you see the stipulation, which will be a live document, you'll know that the dogs are free and clear. There's no first right of refusal. Everybody has the ability to apply for adoption. Kim, the acco is going to vet it and all of these dogs will finally
212be adopted. And to be completely honest, I think the town can finally say we're out of the dog business and hope we don't get back into it. But I think we finally got to where we needed to get to that these dogs will go to good homes. We don't obviously want any of the ownership of the dogs. I'm not going to hold up any of the ownership of the dogs. Granted, you know, with the stipulation the dogs become ours, but we want to adopt them all out, give them their forever homes. >> Mr. Harrington, the ACO guided the dogs to be placed with smallox fosters prior to the 71 date. How can we know that the Harington ACO at the direction of their attorney as referenced in the documentation and that we provided will not
213be routed to those dogs. Will the Siding Foundation take part in this process as was directed by the court? In fact, directed and requested by her own attorney, Mr. James Sar. Lengthy question. I will state per the stipulation that we have on the table, you want to talk with our ACL to express your concerns to make sure those dogs go where you all think there's good homes, but ultimately it's going to be left up to the ACL of where they are placed. We cannot, and I'm going to state, we cannot discriminate against anyone for applying for the dogs. We cannot. >> Will they follow the court's orders? >> We have followed with all the court's orders. I I will I'm not trying to be argumentative, but you can see in accordance with the evidence that
214those dogs were placed prior to July 1st. The stipulation 111.00 that was filed with the court on June 18th indicates that small act suggestions for fostering could not apply prior to >> and there's no indication in that record that Small did direct the dogs to these these people to apply. They applied on their own >> attorney. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, I'm going to I'm going to chime in. This isn't a back and forth. I just wanted to give. So the entire time the dogs locations have been overseen and approved by the civil judge, the criminal judge, the prosecutor, the detective, the chief of police, and the acco and myself. We knew where these dogs were at the entire time. And all of those people that I've just mentioned were always involved in knowing where
215the dogs were. You know, there were a lot of comments that were made during the public [clears throat] input of this that I have all of the information and all that information came to me on a daily basis, right? And I felt comfortable with the dogs continuously >> placing them prior to July 1st with your fosters. >> Who placed them on prior to July 1st? >> The Arlington ACO. >> Who placed them prior to July 1st? >> Arlington ACO. >> That is incorrect. >> Simon Foundation. were not who placed the dogs. >> Foundation was never told and you heard from Simon Foundation this evening that her fosters were not eligible to apply until July 1st at 2 p.m. >> I also heard from Simon Foundation that Briggsby needs to be turned over, which it already
216was during public input. >> I wrote this several days ago. So, we >> if you're reading if you're reading a note and you see Briggsby, >> but he was turned over today. >> Okay. But you're here five hours six hours after the fact. >> We are not from the Simon Foundation and I have no knowledge that he was turned in. I imagine that that was done in advance of today's [clears throat] meeting and we appreciate >> that. Actually, it was just working all behind the behind the scenes of getting it. I >> I think the issue here is that the civil court judge does the civil court judge know that those fosters that are listed in the police report as small suggestions for fostering that they were placed prior to July 1st? Yes. Again, I'm
217going to go back the entire time >> court. We are there for every appearance. I can assure you that the criminal court judge made no direction on the placement of the dogs because the criminal court judge only has purview on conditions of the defendant. He does not have perview over the judge. In fact, Judge Pleski at the civil hearing back in August said that the municipality or the town that sees the dogs has the opportunity to place them accordingly. And so what we don't understand is when we void all of the documentation, we see email after email that per attorney, the Harington acco directed Simon Foundation to knowingly place the dogs with her foster prior to the July 1st deadline. Would attorney like to respond directly? >> This is not public comment right now. We've
218given you some leeway. >> We appreciate that. We've also spent 24 hours coming up here and advocating for the dogs. And our expectation or hope is that this is going to end. >> This is not public comment right now. When we get to public comment, you may speak for three more minutes. We have a minute to finish. >> So, I'm going to end with this and then the board's going to take a vote. I look at this sheet that has four or five requests on it. The town hit every single one of those requests. >> So, you're moving Oakley and Eor and >> I'm not moving any. They're free to be adopted. >> I will clear this room. You will get the chance to talk during public comment. >> Continue, tell manager. >> So again,
219these dogs, if the board authorizes me to sign the stipulation agreement, these dogs are free to be adopted. I don't know which more you want the town to do. You wanted these dogs to be able to be adopted. That was where a lot of this started. We've accomplished that tonight. Where they ultimately end up, I can't answer that right now. I don't know who's going to apply for adoption. I don't know if any of you currently are well, I do know one. If you're probably are going to apply, but I can't say that tonight that I know that 10 people that are fostering are going to step up to an adopt. If you want me to confirm that, I can't tonight. I simply cannot. I can't confirm that the ones that are housing the three
220dogs are going to apply for adoption are not going to apply for adoption. I don't know the answer. I know the answer that you all wanted us to get those dogs adopted out. That's what we're doing. >> Our ask was to get the dogs to safe fosters that was in comp and I can tell you right now knowing our ACOs they are going to make sure they will ensure that these dogs are in safe homes forever. >> So will you be correcting the violation of those dogs with small >> This is your last chance. I am not correcting anything >> as of as of whenever this agreement is signed. I'm adopting all the dogs out. Every single one of them. I'm not correcting anything. Nothing needs to be corrected because the dogs can be up
221for adoption starting tomorrow morning. Literally what you've asked free and clear. >> I'll wait until I >> We have a motion. We have a second. Any other discussion by the board? I think what's important to also reference is that this does not release um the woman from any responsibility for any cost incurred, nor does it release her from any criminal liability or penalties that may be a criminal case. This simply allows the dogs to be um adopted so they can be safe >> and that she voluntarily, knowingly, and irrevocably relinquishes and forfeits all right, title, and interest in the dogs. >> All in favor? Unanimous. Moving on to item B. Discussion, possible action regarding 48 Bridge Street. Uh, we have no action to take on 48 Bridge Street. Item C, discussion, possible action regarding the
222ratification of union contracts. Mr. Mayor, I move that the board of selectmen approve the tenative collective bargaining agreement between the town of Winchester and the Winchester Supervisors Association, NAGE, local RARI-370 as presented. >> This is more. Sorry. >> This agreement sets forth the terms and conditions of employment for the supervisory bargaining unit, including wages, benefits, work conditions, and duration effective upon execution through June 30th, 2028. Further, I move to authorize the town manager to execute the final agreement on behalf of the town and take all necessary actions to implement its provisions. Now, I thank you both. Thank you, Cheryl. Any other discussion on the contract? All in favor? >> Unanimous. Thank you. >> Mr. Mayor, I move that the board of selectment hereby approve the tenative agreement between the town of Winchester and the United
223Public Service Employees Union known as UPSu representing department head assistants secretaries, receptionists, and clerical employees as presented. There's more. This agreement covers all terms and conditions of employment for the bargaining unit, including wages, benefits, hours, and other working conditions, and shall be effective upon execution through June 30th, 2028. Further, I move that the town manager, Paul Harrington, is authorized to execute the final agreement on behalf of the town to take all necessary actions to implement its provisions. >> Okay. >> Any further discussion? >> All in favor? Thank you. >> Unanimous. >> Moving on to item 14, citizens comments. Just turn the microphone on, please. >> I know it's been a heated evening. Um, obviously we're very passionate about wanting to protect the dogs and I don't want to make any insinuation. I know that there
224are you guys are trying to do what you can. Um, our biggest concern about this agreement is having the ACOs do the placement. Um, they are all brand new ACOs. They none of them are experienced in the town of Tinton and I'm highly concerned that they don't have the proper skill set to vet applications um especially in such a sensitive case. Um that that is the huge anxiety and also because of how things happened in the date order of dogs being directed to go to her people when there were other fosters who weren't associated with her who were being put forth that it really reeks of impropriy it and it really reeks of actively trying to get the dogs to her people for some potential quid proquo. And that's a concern we have in having
225the ACOs do the adoption process because they work for the town. They're in contract with the town and we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. We want to believe you. We want to believe, but all of the evidence shows that there were some things that were done to drive these dogs to her people when there were totally unaffiliated fosters who were willing to help. And that's our concern. So that's why yes, we're very happy that Bricsby is at Simon Foundation. Please sign the surrender form for Ike so he can get adopted. But these three dogs we are terrified are going to go back to her people and eventually end up back to her. This woman is a professional at disappearing dogs. This isn't just somebody who has a mental health issue. This isn't
226just somebody who made a mistake or had a bad day. She has been doing it for years over multiple towns. She has injur in injured countless rescue organizations. I I just want to make sure you're aware of it. I know you've signed it, but this is our concern and we really hope that maybe we can have some dialogue with Harington and express our concerns with the acco due diligence to make sure these dogs only get to the best homes and the best people. Thank you. >> On May 30th, um, which you have the court transcript from the judge in the civil case, it was requested and ordered by the judge that the Simon Foundation assessed with the adoptions as well as the foster placements for those dogs. So, we respectfully request that the Simon Foundation
227continues to be involved in the screening and applications and assisting the Harington ACOs in making those decisions so that if there is any appearance of potential impropriy that can be mitigated by both parties that are involved that will make sure that the dogs are placed appropriately. Um, I would like to remind you again in exhibit one, April 3rd, and this is written by Detective Green, who submitted police report number 25-1432. On April 3rd, I received an email from attorney James Sarasini, who wrote that he had spoken to Small and she responded as follows. Attorney Sarasini suggested the following parties care for the dogs while the matter is pending. Beth Hernier and Darren O'Halerin are both listed in the April 3rd police report. So perhaps you may not have been aware of the report at the
228time. We certainly brought it to light in August and bring it to your attention today that it's very clear the control that was exhibited by Small Act and by her attorney to route these dogs to her people and that is documented by your own detective. Um, please also keep in mind that the criminal case is separate and aside from the civil case. The criminal case governs just that, the defendant in the case. The civil case is what governs the dogs. And I don't think that it is unreasonable request for the Simon Foundation to be involved. I urge you to take a few more minutes before you vote and look at the emails between Harington ACL and the Simon Foundation. Every single email says at the town attorney's direction, they have to place these dogs with
229small fosters well before the deadline. So, I understand this is not an open discussion or a debate. However, we believe that these omissions and facts are critical and that's why we're here tonight. I spent 12 hours traveling here today as did many of the folks that are here behind me. So, if the intent is really to protect the dogs, let's not sweep this under the rug. You've got the Simon Foundation, an extremely credible organization to continue to work with Harington acco on the placements. That is what the judge ordered. That is what's in the transcript from May 30th. So, while there is a new stipulation that's on the table that actually surrenders the rest of the dogs, that's fantastic. But it doesn't relieve the town of their duty to follow the court's orders on May
23030th. And I will just repeat before I wrap up that Small cannot control the dogs. the dogs could not be placed and her suggestions for fostering could not apply until 71 and that the Simon Foundation would assist with all of these placements. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Any [snorts] anyone else wish to speak [clears throat] >> quick again? We're kind of newer seeing us here. Um and I appreciate the the work that you guys um are doing alongside, but I just want to make it known because you might not because you were mentioning you don't know where they might go. Every um foster that is not affiliated with her wants to adopt. They've um basically the foster process is very similar to the adoption application. I will have them pursue that. Additionally um and
231upon approval we can move forward with their adoptions. I also have preapproved fosters the ones that were interested in Eeyore Luke and um Oakley that [clears throat] are interested in adoption as well. So, just be aware that I do have solid foster slash already fostered adopters. Um, and I would be very happy to assist or even just vet and work with Kim. She's welcome to speak with me. May not look like it, but I have 20 years of rescue, 10 years at Simon Foundation. Um, and we've worked very closely with a lot of these dogs who some of the ones that previously were already released have been adopted. Um, so we take our vetting screening very seriously. um vet references, personal references, Google Earth, um social media, you name it, we look into it. Um
232so I just I really because you don't know us face to face as well. I want you to have that faith in us. Um we take it very seriously. We vetted them just like we would any one of our dogs. If I can't send my own dog to this home, they're not going. Um, and it might sound a little harsh, but because of all this that goes on, especially the crisis that rescue is in, we are 20 steps ahead now because we otherwise we're going to be in a perpetual cycle of the crisis that we're in. So, um, just I just ask that you please like have faith in us. Um, and just take into consideration that we would be very happy to assist and forward all of those resources and information and talk with
233Kim if she has any questions. Um, and I as soon as I have any of those applications and if if we can at least receive them through the same process, happy to send them over to her and just have a discussion about it. But it would be appreciated and if possible, I'm happy to do it. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Anyone else wish to speak? I'll be very brief. You need to sign the um surrender form for Ike. >> I'm going to comment on that, Mr. Mayor, and I apologize. He's available for adoption. I'm not going to sign a surrender form. I'm going to sign an adoption form. Do you want me to surrender or you want it adopted? Because tonight's stipulation, Ike can be adopted. >> He's the town's dog. >> He can
234be adopted as of tonight. Have the person that has Ike apply for adoption. Let's not surrender it. Let's get the dog adopted. I'm getting yeses back there. >> You need to surrender the dog. >> I don't need to surrender. I need a dog adopted. >> We need a dog adopted to a proper adopter. Yes. >> Have the person that currently is housing Ike apply for adoption. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Anyways, I'm getting heated and I usually don't. [clears throat] >> Anyone else? >> Moving on to item 15, selectman's comments and reports. Uh just really quick uh this weekend it's the start of a a winter lecture series. It's at the library starts at 10:30. It's we hold these truths, the philosophy behind the constitution. It's done by Professor Hamish uh Luchus. And I'd
235like to uh thank the town clerk. I know he puts in a lot more than the hours that he works um to sit here at these meetings, especially this time and the extra time that he does when he's uh has to write these minutes out. So, thank you for all your hard work, >> Mr. Clerk. Other comments? Uh, one of the things that's been going around town lately, a lot of mailings and postcards to residents, homeowners, renters. Um, any mailings that you get, you should be thoroughly vetting before you call for service. As an example, I received something in my house about the water line from the town. I don't have town water. I've received a lot of cards from people wishing to buy houses. Make sure you vet anything that comes to you if
236you are remotely interested because there are a lot of scam mailings going around. and calls >> and calls. >> Make a motion to adjourn. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Good night. Thank you all for coming. >> Do you guys want these books back? >> There's only 11. Who cares? >> Well, we're not we're not going to I'm not going to keep it in. So that's why >> you want to ask that question. I'm keeping my book. It's going in my dog whole area of my bookshelf. >> Remind me dog. That was you.