001I I knock up mine. >> What you got is >> Okay. There was no package for me downstairs this week. I thought maybe you guys eliminated >> I figured out this. >> Was this for a Zoom meeting? >> He's I was wondering where he's like uh Abrams on the old business. He's the first applicant. >> Oh, but he's not in this room. >> No. >> Oh, okay. I want to make sure. I was like, where is who where is this guy? >> Yeah. All right, >> John, can you hear us? >> Okay, you're muted, though. So, when we get to your part of the application, just make sure you unmute yourself. >> All right, I'll mute myself. >> Okay, very good. >> This is cool. >> That's exactly what make a motion to that effect.
002>> [laughter] >> I should put him on last >> cuz he's most comfortable, right? >> Yeah. Don't sit there all night. Listen to me [ __ ] >> Oh boy. Oh boy. All right. >> The mic's on. It's really All right. Is everybody's mic on up here? >> Gary. >> All right. >> It looks like it's 700 p.m. on November 20th, 2025. I'd like to call the Inland Wetlands Water Course Commission to order. Uh, first order of business is the roll call. Uh, Steven Molenelli, chair, present. Russ Davenport, vice chair, >> present. >> Jeff Flippenot, secretary, >> present. >> Frank Oliviveri, >> present. >> Gary Paganelli, >> present. >> Matt Clawson, >> present. >> Jamie Colligan, >> present. >> Maryanne Marino, >> present. >> And for publication, we still have one open vacancy on the board. Uh,
003next order of business is under agenda review. Anybody? Jeff, anything? >> Uh, I've got a few as of right terminations to add, but we'll discuss that when we get to that portion. >> Okay. Um, if those in the audience wouldn't mind, we have one application under old business. It's on Zoom and I'd like to move that up before the public here and just get him off the air so I don't look at him sitting in his couch resting and his call [laughter] and everything else. That's going to make it worse. >> Any other agenda reviews? >> All right. Um, >> do you need a motion for that? >> No. >> Okay. >> No. Uh, I'd like to welcome uh the new representative from the board of selectmen, the liaison. Bill, you want to introduce yourself?
004>> Uh, Bill Hester. I'm the liazison for you guys. So, I'm not sure if I can make every meeting, but if I'm not here, I will be watching. youbody have any questions here to help you guys. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate you coming. >> And is there just for is there some context to because this is a new person that's come in or is there some context to having a board selectman member here like >> well they're always on the agenda >> uh but nobody really >> except they've been a an endangered species >> species. Okay. >> So having said that >> all right. >> Okay. So, it's an old thing that just hasn't occurred and now it's starting to occur with more regularity. >> All right. Uh, next order of business is approval
005of minutes from the uh, October meeting. >> I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. >> Okay. >> From the October 16th. >> Any changes? Second. >> Changes. >> All those in favor of approval. >> It's unanimous. Thank you. Uh, the next order of business under old business application 25- Uh 35 Jonathan Abrams who's remotely present with us. Uh can you hear us? >> I can. Thank you very much. Okay. You want to talk to us about your project? >> Yes. I don't know if Pat, my uh my Mason has signed in. >> Uh no, he's not present. >> Not here. >> No. >> Oh, he was going to sign in. But um I guess at the last meeting you were missing some pictures and drawings and elevation and what type of materials. So uh
006I added that on. Pass is trying to sign in so he's having difficulty. He just texted me. >> Okay. Well, we'll move ahead at this point. I didn't see anything in my package with new information. >> Oh, I got that. I got it. should have a couple of drawings. >> I got it. I'm sorry. And I even put the address on the front. >> Okay, I got it. Uh, >> it's just what we asked for. >> It is what we asked for. >> All right. I think there's a lot of detail in what your contract was submitted. Um, anybody with any concerns about it? >> No. I think he answered all our questions. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um, I have a couple of questions that involve your waterfront but not directly with the stairs.
007Uh, in vis in visiting your site, you have a a dock that's basically a permanent structure. It's resting on a concrete pier out. >> Yes. Uh-huh. >> And then you have uh removable dock uh apparatus off to the side of your property. >> That's correct. >> Where does where does that go? that uh extends on the uh on the permanent dock and goes out >> into the lake. >> Is that permitted? >> No, that's temporary. That there's a permanent part of the structure and then there's a part that we take out every uh >> the word I used was I didn't use the word permit permanent. I used was it permitted. Do you have permission to have that dock in the water is what I'm asking. >> Uh we there was a previous one there
008um and we replaced it with this one because things died. The other one was uh that was taken out the same way. It was just old and rusted. >> All right. I I I think we're going to move ahead with your specific application with your stairs and I think you're cooperative enough with us that if that extension that you're talking about is not permitted, I'm going to ask you to submit a permit for us and tell us where you're going to put it and talk to us about that in the future before it goes back in the water. Unless Unless it's already permitted. I'll I'll check >> you know my file. >> I can't answer that. >> I know you can't. That's why I'm saying I'm we're not going to I'm not going to >>
009stand on ceremony and and force the issue now because with the deep draw down, you want to get your stairs done. You have all winter to remedy that dock situation. And when you're in town, meet with Jeff, see if you have a permit for it and where it's supposed to be and how far out it goes. Okay. >> Okay. All right. >> All right. >> Yes. >> Anybody with any other concerns? >> We have a motion. >> Well, I'll make a motion to uh we got to talk about bond. >> Go ahead. >> No. >> 500 bucks. It's a pretty easy job. Thousand bucks. >> Do we need any uh remediation material up front? >> Yeah. Silt fence is in the methods and means. >> Yeah. So, we're all good with that. And a $500
010bond. >> Okay. >> There is a bond up already that you have of mine. >> Okay. Can you tell Can you tell me why it's there? >> There was a uh open permit for for the previous work that was done. >> Okay. Well, if there's a this came on as a modification at first, but >> well, no, that we we >> we've negated that right away. So, I don't think there was a bond post for that. >> Back years ago when that came in, there was a bond that has not been released to him yet. >> Okay. >> So, we could hold it in place. >> All right. Thank you. I didn't know that. >> Okay. Any other concerns with anybody? >> I make a motion to approve IWWC 2535. Jonathan Abrams repointing the his
011wall and replacing and enlarging his steps into lake to six feet. No bond, no additional bond required. >> Just a a friendly amendment if I might. The repair of the wall should have been strick and that was deemed by right maintenance. This is just the stairs. >> Oh, >> okay. Thank you. Second, Gary. All those in favor of approval of just the wall and the stairs basically. >> No. the stairs. >> Just the stairs. Okay. All right. So, we've approved your ability or your your application to move ahead and remedy your stair problem, but please meet with Jeff. I'm dealing in good faith with you that you will follow up with Jeff and uh just remedy that issue that I brought up to your attention. >> Okay. >> Thank you very much. Happy Thanksgiving to
012you and your family. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> You're welcome. Uh next order of business. Now we'll go back to the uh public hearing. >> Um Mr. Stanzy Ali application 25-37. >> Once again, would you mind coming forward? Introduce yourselves. >> Steve, I'm recusing myself. >> Okay. And for the record, just please introduce yourselves again. Hello. Sean Stanziel, 504 East Wakefield Boulevard. Okay. >> You just want to pull up the plan. >> I can pull up the I was just about to do that anyway. All set, Jimmy. >> All set. Yeah. >> Okay. Introduce yourself, please. >> Kyle Casease of KCC Consulting. I'm the professional engineer for the project. >> Okay. and you're here to talk about the uh wetlands issues that are consistent with the building of the house. >> Correct. >>
013The waterfront has been resolved. To my knowledge, ZBA has been resolved. >> So, we can move ahead. So, we're just going to stay focused on the house and the waterfront. >> Go ahead. >> Sure. So on the plan here, we have uh our proposed structure and that with the new driveway, garage and house attached with the new driveway layout more centered on the property and regrading the site on the the front half of the property to make it more level and take the big big hump out where the the existing garage is. Then we'll work our way down around the the structure. The slopes are steep, so they're going to end up being a rip wrap slope down into the backyard, the lake front, which will end up being a flatter graded yard with the
014retaining wall for off the the lake >> where you're where you're talking about now. That's on the side of Gonzalez. >> Both sides are going to be rip wrap on going down towards the lake on the side. >> Okay. Both sides. >> Both sides. Yep. [snorts] And so then the retaining wall we show here is in the location of the second retaining wall that's currently on the property. There's two retaining walls in the backyard currently. The one >> that's the one closest to the lake or closest >> the one closest to the lake is going to be removed. And this one's going to replace the one closer to the house. >> Okay. And then we have our infiltration trench to to deal with runoff from the property from the the structure is down right below
015the stairs with a buffer of plantings [snorts] and that's designed to take the water from the roof structure and then the footing drains will dump out into the rip wrap slope on on each side of the the structure. The front yard currently has a lot of ledge and stone present with not much vegetation cover. So, the runoff potential there is quite high and it's mostly directed towards the lake. Uh, this new design, the driveway is sloped has a cross slope to it to have that all sheet onto the grass. That'll treat that water before it makes its way down through the rip wrap which provides extra treatment into the backyard before it make it to the lake. So, the water quality ing the rate from any runoff on the property will be greatly increased, improved.
016>> What I think I heard you say was most of the runoff >> on the street side of the house where the garage would be >> Yeah. >> is going to run off to the sides of the property. >> It's going to run >> because it's all ledge. >> Yeah. So, right now it's all ledge. Going to blast that out. >> Oh. >> And replace it with It's going to be like a flat yard. It's like five or 7% grading from the road down to the the covered porch area. And that'll all be sided with with turf. So that'll give some filtration to the water and slow the water down as it makes its way from the the driveway and the street side towards the lake. Um can you go ahead a couple >> down
017a few sheets? >> Yeah. So this is the impervious coverage sheet. It's not really It's just kind of showing the the reduction in imperous coverage, providing more natural surfaces for the water to to run through. We've got a reduction of close to 3%, I believe, is what we were at. 3 and a half%. >> Just talk a little bit louder. >> Y So, this is our erosion and sediment control plan. So, we'll have the the temporary access tracking pad and then we have our erosion control matting in the areas for the the turf to be installed on the front side. Um, going down the embankments before it's stone, we'll have um straw waddle barriers spaced accordingly for the the slope. And then in the the backyard between the the retaining wall and the lake wall,
018we'll have additional erosion control. And there's two different hatchings there. One is for the work associated with the the lake wall. We'll have temporary restoration of that. So there's no doesn't become a mud mud pit in the springtime. The spring freeze and thaws and then the rains and then temporary erosion control for that if anything gets disturbed when we go to construct the You can skip that one. So there's our erosion control details, our silk fence, hay bales. And then on this sheet here, I changed the modified rigraph slope detail to doesn't have it. Um, but we've included Commissioner Paganelli brought up the geoexile fabric last meeting we were here. So, we've I've incorporated that in the detail that will have a layer in between the rip wrap and the the granular fill below it
019to prevent the fines from washing out into the infiltration system and the yards yard space. We went to permeable pavers for the sidewalks to reduce our impervious coverage. And here's our detail for for that. That's also on this page. It's size for the 1.3 inches of rain required by the storm water quality manual set forth by CTV. I think that pretty much sums up the scope of the project. >> What What um precautions are you taking if you have to blast? I mean, you know, we're not at that point now, but that's, you know, that we're going to hire a professional blast company that and, you know, is going to handle that. I guess there's one person that would all be within the upland review area. The blasting for the most part. >> Yes. Most
020blasting companies will have seismographic equipment set up on adjoining property owners and they'll do pre-blast surveys just to make sure that there's no issues once construction starts. >> They're required to within 250 ft of the blast site. They're required to do pre-blasting. >> We make a condition that we be notified prior to any blasting. I mean, can they do it without us being aware of it? >> No. The town has to issue a permit. >> Oh, fire marshall issues that permit. >> Okay, good. So then we don't have to be involved with that at all. >> No. >> Okay. Good. >> Anybody else with any other concerns? >> We have to raise our concerns now. And if we're finished and anybody in the audience that would like to raise concerns and then we have an
021option of continuing the public hearing or closing the public hearing. Once we close it, we can't ask for anything else new or anything like that. Everybody good? Any questions from us? Frank, Gary, you good? >> I'm good. >> Matt, >> I'm good. >> Okay. Uh, if you guys have anything to add? >> No. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. >> Since this is since this is a public hearing, if there's anybody in the audience that would like to participate in the public hearing and raise any concerns, uh I'd like you to please come forward now. John, introduce yourself when you sit down, please. >> Yes. Good evening, members. I'm John Pollock. I'm Sean's next door neighbor. Um, and I just wanted to add a couple of remarks. Um, on November 1st, we had
022a big discussion. Uh, Sean, his wife Brooke, myself, and Mary. And one of the big problems we had here was basically, um, I don't think it was given all the information from the zoning board. and uh it caused a problem with the survey like the survey that we have on the screen right now. I really really didn't get a copy of that or anything like that. And the one that was on there previously uh showing the old um information with the new information, I had to go back to the zoning board the next day and I got a copy of that and that settled a lot of my questions. And uh that discussion um that we had on November 1st with Sean, he explained where the house was going to be, which which I knew,
023and he gave me a lot more detail on it, and he explained where the garage is going to be, which I had an idea where it was going to be, and um I was satisfied with that. The only concern that we possibly may have in the future would be blasting. And so hopefully there won't be any problems there. Um [clears throat] today he was there and I spoke with him. He was down by the waterfront and >> what did you say he was there? >> Sean Sean was there today and um I just asked him a question about the lake bed and he explained that to me um with the sand and um filling the holes etc. And then my ramp was damaged a little bit from the um excavation and he also said that
024that was going to be fixed. So, I don't have any issue with that. So, basically, I'm pretty much satisfied as to what he plans to do. And like I said, the only concern maybe would be possible future blasting, but we'll have to see what happens there. And I wanted to thank the members of the uh inlands wetlands for their time. Um, especially the people that came out to look at it. Steve came out to look at it. Gary came out to look at it. and Maryanne came out to look at it and it possibly ma might have came out to look at it and if anybody else came out. I appreciate it. I probably didn't see you and um I give them the my blessing to go forward and uh again I thank the board.
025>> Okay. Thank you. >> Is there anybody else in the audience that would like to speak? This is anybody's last opportunity because once we close the hearing is there a motion to close the public hearing. I'll make a motion to close the hearing on IWWC >> 35 I'm sorry 37 I'm sorry 2537 public hearing dated November 20th 2025 >> and it's to demolish the existing home and garage and construct a new home with attached garage. Is there a second? >> Uh Jamie. Uh all those in favor of closing the public hearing. That's unanimous. Thank you very much. Uh the next order of business, we did Abrams. We're now on the application of the public hearing. Application 25-37. The applicant is Shan Stanzy Alley. The address is 504 East Wakefield Boulevard. And um the proposal is
026to demolish the existing home and garage and construct a new home with attached garage. Um, we have an opportunity now to ask any concerns that we may have. Anybody? >> All right. I just want to look at my puppet. There were some comments made by the staff and I want to be sure that they're addressed at this meeting. We just suggest a condition of approval that uh inspections by and reports from the project engineer to be submitted to the land use department uh regarding proper installation of PNS controls and then a final report at the end >> and a maintenance schedule to be related to the permal pave. >> Yeah, we have that in the in the revised plan. Y >> all right. So that was one comment that would make a condition or it's
027part of a condition. Yep. And then I would I think one of the conditions should also be that um that this is a a significant project, a lot of detail involved, close proximity that as we enter different stages of the project that staff visit the site so that you're informed as to what the next step might be and any issues that might we not have not been predicted or foreseen to happen. So that I would like to make a condition that the applicant or his or her representative keep the staff informed on a regular basis uh as to the project. >> Okay. Would that be like an email trail or something? Like how would it keep informed like right so is there a project manager maybe with the site like how what it would be
028what would that look like? >> I mean I'm just wondering making the condition. Yeah. >> Would there be a project manager supervising this or would you be personally involved? Would your engineer be? >> Yeah, there there will be. Many jobs have that request as long as there's other jobs that has been asked of That feels like if I look back at meetings over the last year, I don't remember that level of request. I just would want to be fair to the contractor that if we have to stop the project >> Well, I I don't think Yeah, I I appreciate you the way you're articulating it. I don't think if if the office is notified a day or three ahead of time, I'm sure they can make an hour to to stop by and visit with
029the contractor and and maybe, you know, maybe it's overkill, but again, you're working in a tight space. >> Just like it to be a spare good every other project that stand or the ones previous to that >> or the future ones >> whether it's whether it's Mr. project or any of them as long as you apply the same things as everyone else is in the mind totally fair but I have spent soil scientists engineers I really spent a lot of money >> absolutely >> far more than almost anyone on this this size project I just would like it to be everyone get treated >> before me and after me >> I don't think we're looking to hold you up whatsoever at least from my view it's just a notification If you're if you're pouring if
030they're going to pour concrete or if they're going to blast blasting through the town anyways. Okay. The only thing that we have any stance on whatsoever is the erosion control. So once you go out and look at your erosion control, it's in place. If other activities take place, it's our responsibility to have somebody go out there, not have them call to come look at my erosion control, look at my erosion control. That's all we have is erosion control. From a staff perspective, we routinely stop by ongoing projects all the time. Uh not necessarily scheduled. Uh you know, just stop in, make sure everything is in place. When it comes to the wall construction part of this, the building official is involved. You know, when footings are poured, they do the pre-insspection. So, all these inspections
031are kind of built in. Anyway, >> I think maybe the question is if anything out of the ordinary comes up that we haven't discussed, maybe reach out and let us know at that point. But you can expect me to I I I try to be very have I been very transparent. I literally check in with Thomas engineer. I literally update him multiple times per week. So we talked several times since I started the project. So I very transparent. So I will make sure I follow the rules. >> Good. Yeah. >> All right. Thank you. >> The thing with this too is obviously it is a steep slope you have there, but it's all ledge and ledge doesn't erode much. So, I mean, there's going to be minimal minimal erosion of any sort with the with
032the rock that's on the job. So, >> okay. Um, we have a motion or we don't. I forgot. >> Not yet. Anybody like to make a motion to the effect of approval? is that so are we in agreement about we brought up one condition was to have the engineer certify which is fairly standard the erosion control methods right but as far as a second it's it's my thought or I think that we weren't putting any second uh >> I'm comfortable if Jeff assures us that he stops by regularly >> yeah and then you have all the full permitting you have inspectors there all times so I'd like to make a motion to accept IWWC East Wakefield Boulevard to demolish existing home and garage and construct new home with attached garage um with the condition of
033having the site engineer certify the erosion control methods have been installed per their spec >> and a bond. >> Where do we stand? Where do we stand with the bond on the waterfront? >> That bond. That bond should cover. >> Jeff, do you know how much we asked for a bond for the waterfront? You guys >> Tom came up. >> How much? >> It was $3,900. Grimmaldi was going to come up with that. >> What's that? >> Grimmaldi was going to come up with that. >> That's why we don't remember it at this. >> He left it damn. >> Me personally, I think that >> enough that bond should cover. >> Okay. So, we'll let that bond cover the whole project. >> Okay. Anybody with anything else? >> Do I have a second then? >>
034Second, >> Jamie. >> All those in favor of approval. >> Just one quick thing. I believe you said accept. You probably want to say approve. >> Oh, >> I did. >> I really accept. Approve. Sorry. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Good catch. >> All those in favor of approval, >> I becomes unanimous. Good luck with the project. When do you intend to begin? >> Not till March. >> Oh, >> I don't. >> You're going to lose the whole summer. >> Yeah. Start September. I did the best I could. >> I don't think I get anyone to start. >> Good luck with it. >> Probably won't have a building permit until January, I bet, you know. So, thank you all. >> Have a good holiday. Thank you. Jamie, >> let the record show that uh Marian
035is back on the board. Um, we have no new business. >> Probably the first time in 20 years. >> I don't ever remember >> with no business. >> They're running They're running out there without without our permission. That's what's going on. They're doing all that work without our permission. >> Agent determinations. Yes. >> Uh yeah, just wanted to discuss uh 161 Meadow Street uh is the um car detailing place that's been under construction for some time at the end of Meadow Street. Uh they came in with their uh paving permit and just because of relation of the um river there. It's in the review area, but it it's a simple paving job. It also includes the uh required dumpster enclosure pad in the up review area. So I approve that by determination. No big deal
036there. >> Good. >> Um next with the ads of right determinations in addition to A through F which you have uh on your agenda. A few mother others came in today. Uh 206 East Wakefield, 204 East Wakefield, 535 Wheelers Point and 539 Wheelers Point. All also as a right determination. I've got the guys out there pretty good now. They send me pictures. uh they talk about exactly what they need to do. Most of them are just reordering and pointing and that that kind of stuff. So those are all added to your list of as of right. So this is probably why you're not seeing as many new applications in front of you because they're they've been uh discussed beforehand. So those are there for you as well. >> Could you identify just for my purposes
037the two any names associated with the wheel of point one? >> Uh because I have the email. Let me double check. name's not listed here. Uh, we can check GIS real quick if you hear me on that. >> You mind? >> No, I don't mind. >> That's the one working with an excavator out there. >> Uh, which one? >> Wheeler's Point. >> Uh, there should be no excavator on any of the >> I didn't go out. I mean, I could see it from the road when I drove by, >> so I don't know to what extent they're doing it. And then and then also al also the other one was the bridge repair at >> 508. That's 508. Uh I did go out there the other day after we spoke and actually Jeremy and I
038stopped there today as well because we were in the area. So that's almost being considered like an emergency repair at this point. I don't know if you got out and looked too close, but with the amount of traffic that's been going going over there with the renovation of the house, uh they've actually uh lost a few of the capstones on the wall have fallen off >> for about 20 years now. >> Yeah. So, they're making it worse now with all the traffic there. >> Okay. >> Um so, unfortunately, the contractor came in two weeks ago at this point to talk about it and they'd really like to do a full job there, but they don't have the time with the draw down. have to wait until 5 years from now to do that properly. Uh
039but we did decide to allow to let them uh they basically set up forms a couple inches off the existing uh causeway walls and they're they're going to be pouring just to try to solidify that thing as they continue to traverse over it. >> So right in the lake bed form seven lake bed >> uh right on top of Yeah. And there's uh but they're not there's no footings. They're not dug into the lake bed. So, it's not a long-term fix by any means. Trying to hold those rocks together. >> There's not even any rebar, any kind of reinforcement whatsoever. I mean, it's like it's there's no way it's not temporary because it's not going to last. >> So, we're just going to stop it from crumbling into the lake. >> And yeah, they'll have
040some more clean up to do when they address this for real. >> They're going to have to come in for a real permit to fully rebuild that thing. There's no question about it. >> There's no question. While we were there, we walked to the site and there were a few piles of uh dirt that have been dug up with no controls whatsoever. So, I need to make sure that he gets some controls around those piles as well. >> Just a comment that my ch my sense is that it's going to have to be an engineered >> rebuild. I would think so. >> They would they should start now for four years or five years from now. >> Not a bad idea. >> Seriously. Right. you know, only because they'll get jammed up and >> and
041and that causeway does have a pass through uh through it. So, you know, they they've got things to consider there. >> Good. >> That that area there is probably only 30 in deep of water. >> Yeah. >> In the summertime. So, they could do that. They don't need a deep draw down. >> Oh, okay. Yeah. >> So, >> it is possible. I mean if I mean in my mind get going on it now and you know >> get the ball rolling because obviously it's >> you know it's it's quite significant obviously a bridge I mean we just made a guy jump through hoops over widening his stairs >> three feet and now we're just you know pour set up forms and pour it and do what you want to do and >> you know so
042>> I I would kind of like to have a description of all the agent determinations. I don't know how you guys feel about that. I don't want >> a description of what the agent determinations are. You know, I drive around the lake and I see stuff going on and you know, is it permitted? Is somebody approved it? Is it >> Frank and I had that discussion prior to the meeting starting? And we were talking. It would be nice if if you gave an agent determination and just shot an email to all of us with the address so when we're driving by, you know what I mean? At least we know something. You know, we've seen things >> happening. >> What we're actually going to be doing is we're going to make this a uh a
043nonpaid application through open gov portal like everything else. So, we will have the pictures in there and the details in there. Uh so, we'll be able to give you guys all that stuff in your packet like it's a full-fledged application, but they don't need to come in and do all the stuff. So, meaning if we drive by and see it, that stuff will be well, it'll be uploaded. So, that means Gary, we can go onto the website, put in the address, and see if he has >> Well, it'll be in your packet, too, is the plan. >> But, I think what these guys are saying is in between the meetings sometimes we see stuff and we're not sure, >> right? Yeah. If you want to use open gov, I'm all for it. window. >> There's
044no window. >> Yeah. I mean, if you're if you're >> Hang on. Hang on, guys. Go ahead, Jeff. >> And we've had this conversation before, but I mean, the reality is if you're driving by an 8 1/2 by 11 permit, not you could see. You could see it. Let me tell you, you could see it. >> Frank, that's all I'm saying. >> Frank, your house is close to the street. >> Yes. >> Okay. My house isn't even near the street. >> Okay. >> There's There's the problem with this. We have to Okay. O >> open gov. I mean permits are in open gov. Everything that's permitted in the last what two and a half years. >> Yeah. >> Is in there. So that's piece of cake. And that's why we're doing the age of determination
045that way too because that way when when Jeff approves No, no. It's not about being wrong. I'm just I'm just letting you know that's going to be a better source than than anything we could do on the street. >> So you're saying like one of these like let's just pick out any 543 Wakefield Boulevard that would eventually be on open gov. >> Yeah. with a photograph or a description of what was approved because it's a I think Matt brings up a really good good point. I mean, we we definitely are trying to hold all everybody on the same standard as much as possible. And and then it's like you hear about somebody, well, now somebody's pouring concrete on a wall. Seems like a little bit of a bigger job and we just made somebody do
046a full [clears throat] permit with a lot of information just for a set of stairs, which is a big job, too. But, I mean, I think it's a valid point he brought up that that's something that everybody should be aware of because maybe what you may determine is not that big of a thing. could end up being a lot bigger. And once somebody is like, "Oh, well, he said I could pour concrete here." Before you know it, >> there's an extension wing on or something or I just always get I mean, he Matt also said, you know, there's an excavator and I don't know if it's down on the lake bed. >> It wasn't on the lake. >> Okay. No, but it was it was I could see it from the road driving by. So
047>> the only other one thing I Jeremy Jeff can answer this >> working in lake bed like they are >> I don't know if you have the right to even get that determination if you look at it you look back in the state rags >> we no we we don't >> lake bed yeah >> but that's lake bed we're pouring down to the lake bed >> on top of that you turn around we shut down uh somebody that wanted to put two inches on the front of their Beyond >> beyond. Okay. You know why? Because you were taking two two inches of town property. These people are taking two inches of town. They're taking four inches of town property. >> State property. >> The lake the lake bed is owned by the town. The water
048is owned by the state. >> Right. >> But either way, >> you're taking you're taking four inches. We just shut someone down a few months ago for taking two inches. >> You know what I So we have to call we have to be careful with this. >> It's just like um the last gentleman said I don't care if I'm if I'm treated equal I'm treated equal. >> He was downplaying the size of his project. His project is huge. >> Well that's not treated equal to you know I mean but he was downplaying the size of that project. I think I think moving forward if there are opportunities where you think it can be an agent determination maybe if you gave me a call and or one of us a call to just to get some
049feedback as to what we think >> and uh you know I I think we're I'm comfortable with with you being aggressive in solving a lot of our problems so that they don't come before us right >> by an agent determination but what Gary's taken is well taken let's not inadvertently assume too much of it where the commission loses some kind of input. So, there's a balance. What would you think about a three-day window between you looking at it and getting it on the website and having access to us to look at it? >> Oh, yeah. >> Three, four, five day a week window >> schedule there. Once they, you know, put it up, you guys can get notified, look at it, make comments. You look at it, you say, "I think that I'm going to
050make a agent approval on this any issues. Get it out to us commissioners and we can take a look at it." >> Yeah. >> Should we But should we I mean, would that be for everything? Like I don't think you need to do that for >> except for 508. Those are all >> repoint. Yeah. Yeah. >> But it's what it's something's question. >> Exactly. >> And the one that Matt's talking about. >> Yeah. That's the one. That's the one. Yeah. >> All right. Good. So, so I think I think in terms of the one the other one that where we were today, what what's that one? The one with the bridge. >> That's 508. >> And and I think, you know, we talked about it when we were out there. The contractor wasn't there on
051site. We were going to have we were going to have a conversation with him, you know, and because of because it's access to the property. I think we have to look at that one a little bit differently. But I think we we can go back out there and say, "No, you need a permit." And we talked about that. look at it as an emergency repair because of what he needs to do to provide access, but still get a permit on file to get him in here just postf facto. >> Yeah. All right. >> I think that's probably the way to go with that. >> Those stones have been falling like that for 20 years. >> Well, there's a re there's a real I mean, driving out there today, somebody went through the top and there's
052I mean they these have fallen probably within the last few days. I mean, you could just tell because of the dirt. So, it's it's a problem and and but the way they're going about it, it's going to continue to be a problem because they're not reinforcing anything. So, let's get it done run once, right? Once. >> Yeah. I don't I suspect they're not going to do that. They're going to need to come back and do it again. And this is more of a >> shore it up and hold it together for now. So, we we need to make contact with the contractor. >> According to Matt though, they could do that next year in a shallow draw. >> Sure. Sure. >> Yeah. >> Let's not make it >> right. >> A road again into the
053lake and then they're back doing what they want again. >> Right. Plan on putting two inches of concrete on the side of the wall. It's not. Yeah, it's I mean it varies. >> Doesn't hold it, >> Right. >> Yeah. Water's going to get in there this winter and freeze. >> Yeah. There's no there's no footing. There's no Right. It's just a veneer. >> It's a veneer. >> That's all it is. >> So, what's the point? >> Huh? >> So, what's the point of doing it? >> Make it look good. >> Somebody's like good. Somebody's idea in the field saying, "Hey, we throw some mortar on it. It'll >> temporarily the way it is right now." Like it's nothing really, right? >> I'd rather see some mafia blocks set alongside of it or something >> and
054that you could take out in three years or two years. >> Today I was going up Mountain Road and a big trailer truck came out with a load of mafia plum along there. It'll I mean the street from here >> where those beams were >> where beams were. >> Do we know anything about that? What's going on with that? >> What's the beam? The eye beams. >> Oh, the eye beams. Oh, I didn't hear the word. >> That's a job that got permitted. >> I asked Jeff and I spoke about that. >> You were on the commission at that time. >> Yeah. >> Wait, we're losing track of where we are now. So, >> okay. >> Um, [clears throat] >> I just want to add something to this. You guys got to think about the
055town liability, too, because if you're permitting somebody to do a shoddy repair and someone gets hurt, you gave authority for that to be done. the responsibility to come back to the tower. >> That's why you don't do those things. >> It should be it should be looked at. I mean, you're driving over with cement mixers, you're driving over lumber trucks, it should be looked at by an engineer to make a determination should be done with it >> rather than just cement. You know what I mean? They may turn around. I don't know. You know, I didn't look at know anything about it, but you know, you may be able to use steel plates. You know what I mean? all your roads in the cities go over trenches and stuff and steel plates. >> There might
056be other avenues of getting around this on a temporary fix while they're working on their place, but it should be looked at, I would think, by [clears throat] >> All right, good conversation. Uh, you had information for Jeff. You were looking up an address. >> Oh. Oh, you you would ask for names, I think, on the Wheelers Point. >> Well, only because Matt was concerned about that. >> Yeah, that Novator. Yeah, that was all the >> We're good. >> That was that. Oh, also, um, while we're on it, 206 per track Trail, the garage that got built, I believe it's 206. >> It is >> 206. Um, was part of their condition by ZBA that it be reviewed by wetlands. >> I'd have to check >> because that's what I I it was brought to
057my attention that was supposed to be and I know it never came before us. Well, 206 was was an address that uh Jeff gave us earlier under agent as of right determination. >> You gave us 204 and 206. >> That was East Wakefield. >> That's what you thought about. >> No, I'm talking about 206 Perge Rock. >> I believe it was 206. The new garage that just got built. It was >> That's right on the corner of East and Perch. So that's a P rock address. Perch. True. >> That never came before the board. I just assumed, you know, not that I could see by it. I just assumed it was a meeting I had missed, [laughter] right? I've been traveling. I missed a lot of meetings. >> So, I just I was surprised. >>
058Hang on, guys. Surprising. >> The distance is on the shoreline. >> Yeah, that's No, it's up by the street. It >> could be 100 feet away. I I don't know. >> You mean outside of the review area? Good. >> I think it was 100 and half inch away or something. Is that the one? >> It is. >> I Yeah, there's no I don't see a per Well, let me look at the look at the zoning permit. Maybe >> I remember that one. And it was just outside of the review area and we Yes. Ryan actually said to him, >> you know, you are so close to the edge of the review area that your work is going to end up inside the review area. So you should go to wetlands. He did say that but
059we didn't make it a condition. It wasn't made a condition. I believe did the esavate for >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. foundation down there when I walked >> anything. I don't care where it is supposed to wet for erosion control. >> Anything is supposed to wetlands for erosion control. >> Anything within the up review. It's got to be on the shoreline >> anything period. Generally in a any in most towns anything goes before wetlands whether it's an upland review area or not. >> Yeah. We do stuff that's across the street >> across the street if it erodess down. >> Oh yeah. As part of a zoning permit but it doesn't come to the wetlands commission. You don't have jurisdiction outside of the wetlands or the upland >> control wetlands >> in the upland review or
060in the wetlands. But outside of those, you don't have No, no, no. The commission doesn't have jurisdiction outside. I mean, >> well, maybe it suffered many here over the years that came up that were building in the garage. >> Hey, wait. Listen, let's talk one at a time so we all hear the conversation. Go ahead, Russ. >> I I remember several over the years. I don't remember the exact locations, but around the lake that stuff that we it was under our purview because it was part of the drainage into the lake. So stuff that was like across the street that was more than 100 ft. I recall stuff that we looked at was brought here. Maybe it was a little bit brought more as almost like a I won't say courtesy but something along those
061lines saying well have them take a look at it. It's direct drainage into the lake one way or the other, you know, >> and I I can understand looking at it in 100 100 foot review area. All right. Saying, "Okay, we're not going to bring it here." But at that point in time coming from zoning zoning, you guys should still enforce the erosion control. >> No question about that. >> Was it enforced? >> Well, it was it was reviewed. I did not visit that project. I'll be honest with you. >> Well, that that's what I'm trying to say. It's just it's, you know, if we don't want to if we want to just set our limits to to the 100 foot review area, that's fine. But somebody do does have to enforce the erosion control
062from there out. Well, this is where an overlay zone would start to become very important, which is something that we've been talking about, right? Y >> I think an overlay zone is really important. >> What is that overlay? >> Well, so that's more of a zoning issue. One of the things that you could consider, and again, I've done this in a different lake community. You have a 100 foot up. Well, you have to you have 100 foot upland review area around wet or water courses and 75 feet around wetlands. What you might want to consider bec, you know, is look at the lake. Look at all of your lakes, but look at Highland specifically and figure out sort of what the average depth of the properties is around that, right? Because this is what I
063ran into in the in the other community. We had 100 foot upland review. Most of the lakefront properties were about 200 feet deep. So, people would do all kinds of stuff >> up to that 100 foot light. It paved their driveway. They do all this stuff. And it's it's still on a slope. So the jurisdiction line is here, but they're doing all this stuff up here. Now, we still had, you know, erosion control measures and all the rest of it that were required as per zoning. So we upped the upland review area to 200 feet >> to capture the entire property all the way around the lake. So that's something that you could think about, you know, in in the future is just adjust your upland review so that you're capturing those properties. >> That
064would be part of the ordinance. >> That would be part of your wetland regulations. You could do that >> without without going anybody else. You can do that. It's a It's a public hearing that you have to hold whenever you, you know, adjust your regulations, but you could do that. >> That's probably worth considering. >> Yeah. Something to consider. >> Gives you more work, but that's all right. Sometimes that's okay. >> Hi, Jeff. You want to continue, >> please? >> Violations. uh violations 139 West Wakefield. Uh as we talked at the last meeting, there was a uh a court hearing and the judge basically kicked it down the road for another six months. >> So we will reconvene at a later date. >> Which one was that? >> Slightly oversized dock >> and the rentals.
065>> That's a different Okay. Well, all things being equal though, it should still be resolved before next season. >> That's six months away. No, >> if you recall, this whole season it never went back in the water and she didn't have any votes there. So, >> it's sort of in a holding pattern. >> All right. Good. >> Uh, thank you. Thank you. Uh, under other business, uh, there's a calendar. >> I didn't get I didn't get one. I didn't, as I said, I didn't get a package. >> I'll get it up on the screen. >> It's a Thursday. >> The calendar very simply, it's every third Thursday of the month. >> Okay. >> There are no exceptions at all. >> Okay, good. Okay, no problem. >> Cuz I checked I went month by month. So,
066>> No holidays. It's not near Thanksgiving. It's not near Christmas. It's not near Hanukkah. It's not near Ramadan or >> Okay. >> We have to We have to make a motion to accept these. >> Yes. >> You want to make it? >> Yeah. Motion to accept the uh draft for the 2026 meeting calendar. >> Second. >> Okay. Any discussion? Any concerns? All right. All those in favor of acceptance. All right. It's unanimous. Thank you. Uh let's hold off the Department of Public Works. Let's go down to the u the selectment leaison report because there's a selectment here. And um I'd like to bring uh Bill into the conversation. And um Bill, last month or two months ago or many months back, we submitted our ordinance to the selectman because we thought there were some not
067minor significant changes but not altering changes to the ordinance that we wanted the selectment to approve. And it sat there for a while to my understanding and it came back to us where it was not approved and they'd like us to consider including language regarding a waiver where my understanding would be that any property owner or every property owner if he or she wasn't happy with the limits of the ordinance and what they could do and what they couldn't do that they could ask for a waiver which is sort of I'm going to use the word it's a it's it's an extension of the ordinance beyond the ordinary. Uh some cases or many cases it's you buy a piece of property in the wrong area and you want to build a lot of docks and
068boat lifts out there and you only have 40 feet and we say you can't. Now with this waiver, you can ask us to reconsider the ordinance. So it it's it's it's a mushroomy kind of thing. Um Maryanne last month offered to write a letter, a draft letter back to the selectmen. Yeah. >> Which we have in front of us. >> And it incorporates the notes from the commissioners from last meeting's discussion. Uh I don't know. Did everybody read it? >> I would hope so. I put it on the agenda and I asked specifically for it to be read. >> Right. Okay. Cool. >> Uh any concerns about it? No, >> very very well written. >> Uh I don't know. Bill, did you get a copy of it? >> I did not. I just you guys
069all of a sudden became my >> this past this past Monday. I told everybody just put me on every time anyway. So I'm really very unfamiliar with how even works and give you guys a lot of credit. You have to classes and learn a bunch of stuff. So, I'm gonna have to learn how this goes here to be helpful to you guys. >> Okay. >> So, some of we talk water quality or waste water. I can talk all day long, but you know, this is a way different sort of >> No, the reason why >> we had asked I had asked Jess to invite you guys or the the representative, >> right? uh was because I wanted the conversation to be live where if you wanted to, you could participate in it. But this conversation
070doesn't have to begin or end tonight. >> It's just we're going to be kicking it around. >> And um >> so I got the letter. >> Oh, okay. >> I was your >> Yeah, I know. I did. >> I gave it up to Bill. Jeff sent me a letter. That's why I'm here tonight. Um I did read your letter. Um, and thinking back on that vote from the selectman, um, I believe that selectman Perez brought in a letter from a woman on the lake who had a lot of investment in in what you guys were talking about and it was determined after her recommendation that we voted down and asked for that. Um, >> I'm not following you. You lost me. >> I mean, none of us were really aware of what was going on
071as far as what you guys were doing. selective um selected Perez brought in a letter. Do you remember that letter from that lady? >> I can't think of her name. But anyway, so after we all listened to her thing, we all agreed that, you know, maybe this was the way to go. >> A waiver. >> She this letter >> that was brought up by Sele. So that's why it got voted that way and that's why you got the letter that was sent back to you to Jeff to give to you. Um so I recommend as your own liaison and a selectman that several of you show up at at and I can set it up show up at a selective meeting and state your case to all the selective because two of us are new
072uh and there's five uh older members that are from last year but I don't think really had a gist of what was going on >> and we we took the from an experienced selectman. We took her word for it and that's how it was handled. >> Can can I >> can I summarize what my opinion of what my feeling is how this whole process started. Um probably a year and a half ago now, the commission asked myself and two other people to form a subcommittee to review the Doc and Morgan ordinances and we did that over the course of six, eight, 10 months. Uh brought it to the commission several times. Um the changes were highlighted and I think they're in green or the different color, whatever it is. Uh we all agreed on it.
073We voted to present that to the board of selectmen. We did that. >> But the the most substantive change you asked for was to change the language from having one jet ski lift and one boat lift to two vessel lifts. >> Right. We changed it to >> not one boat lift and one dual jet ski lift, >> right? >> To two vessel lifts, >> right? And I think >> and if I recall correctly, Selectman Perez suggested that you just add the definition, right, of uh that lifts are specifically for jet skis or boats. >> She suggested this at the selectman's meeting. Yeah. But it never came to us. >> No, no, because they were all discussing it. >> Okay. Um, >> so the way I understood it was that the board of selectman wanted to
074tie in with that ordinance revision other language that allowed us to make exceptions for >> a whole host of other things. There was safety involved. There were safety issues. >> That was select that was selectman Marino's suggestion because I was at that meeting >> uh and there was a whole discussion about him wanting a longer dock. And I think our >> which Frank brought up at the last meeting. I >> I think the commission's consensus was we don't want the responsibility to determine which what is safe and what is not safe. Um someone wants a longer dock to get further in the lake, whatever. I know there's people that have docks at the end of their rocks, huge boulders at the end of their docks. They'd like to have them removed. Uh all kinds of
075things that would come up to deem them as safety issues. And I don't believe we want to be responsible for that. You know the the other thing also tonight I think you heard that the remote conversation that took place with a gentleman remotely we have a responsibility and an ability that when an applicant comes before us with a waterfront issue if they want to build a new house and their waterfront is all out of compliance we can't do anything. But if they come to us with a waterfront application like the gentleman did with the stairs and in my visiting the the site, I see a dock that's 20 25 ft out into the water permanent and I see two 10 15 foot sections on the land and I'm saying where do you want to put
076him? And he says honestly further out. Now we can bring him and we have a responsibility to bring him into compliance. Once we start with waiverss, then everybody's going to cry with a different reason. Well, I need this and I need that and I want this. You know, you buy where you buy and there are limits to that piece of property. You buy property with 130 feet of waterfront, you have more liberty than 40 feet of waterfront. So, you know, a waiver says, "Well, I have 40 feet, but what I want what the guy withund 30 feet has." And that to me is just opening up a Pandora's box every other day because if my neighbor gets something and it impacts me negatively, well, I can ask for a waiver now to do something different
077and impact pack them. So, that's where I'm coming from on that. >> I'm gonna have to go back and look at the minutes on that because I don't remember exactly. The the other thing that >> a while ago >> the other thing with that is majority of the problems that we have people want to extend their docks are in the coes right >> the what >> in the in the coes and the unfortunate part for the people in the cove is yourtorial line is it leaves your property gets narrower >> so the further you go out with your dock the less you have on the sides >> right >> in your property >> you know what I mean to you're you're encroaching because not everybody is down the middle of their property with their dock
078and you want to extend now you're encroaching over the line to someone else. You know what I mean? So it's a real quagmire for us to be able to sit here and say, "Oh, you can go 60 ft. You can go 40 ft." And all of a sudden the neighbor comes in. You know, it's >> a quagmire where we are adding this to it is like just asking for drugs. >> You know what we're also doing? We're order we're uh we're we're we're looking to ensure compliance and a waiver sort of moves us away from compliance by granting the waiverss. So, you know, where the the rules and regulations are very specific to the entire community on a waterfront that, you know, you don't have anything different than somebody else has. If you have what
079somebody else has, then you could be the same. Once we start with waiverss, we're setting apart. There's no rules and regulations anymore. And then I think we leave ourselves open to a suit because a waiver is individual to somebody as a and if we turn the next person down well I have the same situation and you said yes and now you're saying no. So it just, you know, there's no I I my sense is there's just no consistency and it and it it makes our job almost impossible to be objective and fair about it because you know you listen to somebody and they're crying woes and you feel sorry. So we say yes and then the next guy well, you know, they didn't cry enough so we're going to say no. And Sean Sy brought
080something up. You know, all I want to be treated is the same as anybody else. And it's a good point. >> We've had people come in who wanted to go one in a cold, wanted to go 100% legal, put their stuff. The people on either side were totally illegal. Okay? And it would be no different than if you gave that person variance, that person variance, this person wants to come in and be be legal. All right? Then we shut them down >> right now. We have the neighbors. We had we had neighbors one at a time, guys. >> Jeff, go ahead. >> Uh the only v the only >> only only thing that we have the ability to vary from the ordinance is loral borders. That's the only thing that we can we can make
081exception to the 10 ft on either side >> and it requires public hearing for that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe we that was a it was left as a suggestion. It wasn't voted on where it had to be. >> Correct. >> Right. No change have been made. >> So no. So you come back to the selection and pretty much know now that you probably now that we have a better understanding of it um that it would most likely pass. I don't think you really need to take the select suggestion as go that you just leave it the way you want it. You guys are the experts. That's your field. Our field is budget and other stuff. >> So, should we submit the uh the new ordinance again? >> Should we submit
082the new ordinance again? And >> I would submit resubmit it. >> Um I also would resubmit I would submit the letter to explain to the rest of the board. Me and Bill got it now. um you know why that waiver is a bad idea and I think pretty much possibly it would pass. >> I'm I'm going to ask a loaded question. Is there any anybody on the commission that feels in favor of the waiver? >> Well, no. We we ourselves with historical data and historical memory of what we made decisions on not to go across somebody else. So, no. >> Even even goes further than that. It goes into the safety issue. Once you start getting waivers and you're starting to get into these tutorial lines, you know, and we've been there where people have
083to go around somebody's dock to access their own property. >> Yeah. It's hard to navigate their own boat. >> You know what I mean? To put their own navigation issue, >> you know, so going to longer docks and and and stuff like that and what all right now goes longer. Well, I went wider. Well, you know, now you have waivers on all kinds of stuff. And we are already seeing this trend of people putting buoys or markers out because the the boats the wakeboats the wave action is so much bigger that it's causing damage to their walls to their docks. So they're trying to they're taking it upon themselves to try to get the boats to navigate further away. So if you start to allow longer docks, you're and then the people put the thing
084out, then you're pushing all the boats into the center and you're creating more navigational hazard in the center of a very narrow lake. >> I agree. I agree. I applaud you guys for taking that step and I think it's a great thing because eventually all these non-compliant docks are going to come to you for repair and that's when you get them. have the piece behind you to do something about it >> and they're going to get away with it. So I think this is great. >> It's you know the other thing also it's actually unfortunate that the issue that came before you through your selectment Perez didn't come to the commission or to one of us as a courtesy phone call to say this is sort of brewing you know uh give you a heads
085up on it. >> I can prepare I got to look for the minutes I'll get I was I think I was at that meeting and it was really like I I believe if I recall correctly it was about just defining specifically if we were going to allow two lifts as vessel lifts rather than using the word vessel just defining four jet skis or skiboats and defining the length because there was a concern that like a vessel could be defined only as boats and they're only supposed to have two boats on the property. So then they could >> or three boats on the property, but they could put in two big lifts and have four, you know. So that was the whole concept. >> Well, I think I think >> and then the waiver thing sort
086of >> I think the lang the language of the ordinance is specific. It says >> you can have a boat lift and a double jet ski lift, >> right? >> But you can't have a double boat, you know, two double boat lifts. Two boats, two boats, one boat, two jet skis, or two boats. >> Yeah, that was discussed. Like I said, she made sense when she brought that up. I think that's why we all >> went that way. As far as thing, I don't know where that came from, and I don't even remember how that went down. >> Chef and Jeremy can tell us [laughter] >> who gave you about a waiver. >> All right. So, you All right. So, you got a sense from the commission how we feel. Uh, you can bring the
087message back. We're going to submit the letter >> and we're going to resubmit the request for approval. >> I think that's a great >> Okay. >> Jeff did have one note on the letter. He just wanted to make sure that there was one mention of like if [snorts] someone comes in for >> a refer to a page and something. So, >> Oh, yeah. That should be page number. It's under the section >> Safety paradox and congestion concerns. >> Well, when I first read this a couple days ago, I didn't know that Maryanne had read our was involved with the rewriting of the ordinances. So, that's why I put a questionnaire that we had already discussed all this at several meetings about the the two vessel lifts as opposed to >> Right. Well, I wasn't involved,
088but I was aware because I wasn't on the board when you guys did that. >> Yeah. >> So, you want to do we need to make a change with that letter? >> Just he he Jeff's note was allowing waiverss for longer docks and additional boat lifts. So, he just thought that it I think if I read your note correctly that I should clarify boat lifts that are additional to what is allowed in the dock and moing ordinance because he he did want to make sure that it didn't muddy the waters with the other requests. >> I I read that to me that you could you weren't agreeing with the two boat lifts, >> right? Right. >> Two vessel lifts, >> right? So, I I can I can fix that so it doesn't confuse the two
089issues. >> Would it would it make make be make more sense if the letter had all our signatures on it >> as opposed to only the chairs? >> On behalf of commission members, list all commission. >> Okay. >> You want to follow? >> No, no. I So long as because we I did ask specifically if there's anybody who has anything contrary to say. So, I just want to reinforce and respect your your your you know your approval or opinion of the of what we're doing. >> I I'll say I I will address that piece. >> Okay. >> And then it can get circulated and you guys can all decide if it's >> Okay. Thank you very Thank you very much for doing the letter, Mary. >> Yeah, no problem. >> Anybody with anything else? Gentlemen,
090thank you for coming. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate it. Nice to meet you, Bill. Nice to meet you guys. >> And same here. And uh uh Jeff, you want to go back to public works? >> Uh yeah, I spoke to Jim today. >> Uh so regarding the discussion you and I had about the schedule of the culvert uh storm drain cleaning and if he had a specific schedule that that he kept. uh he does not have a specific schedule. What he does is he he needs to sweep the lake first and then as early as possible in the spring uh suck up the the storm drains, suck all the water out of the storm drains. He can't do that till the weather is warm enough so it doesn't freeze in his tank. So that that's
091the limitation he has there. So he does do the sweeping first. uh the the vacuum of the the storm drains as soon as it warms up enough. He sweeps the lake five or six times during the year and then the second time of sucking out the storm drains at the end of the at the end of the >> question I have he does not need to suck those storm drains out every time he sweeps. He says he keeps up on the sweeping it. >> No. Okay. The question I have is there a schedule or is there a record of the storm drains? And let's say he sweeps five times a year. Does he have the dates on on record where he could say I swept this this this and this these dates and I I
092did these 15 storm drains the first week in July and I did 10 others the second week in July. >> I I could do that next month. call. >> I I think that would alleviate a lot of our concerns and a lot of the comments that have passed that >> I think sweeping it five or six times over, you know, the course of four months. That's pretty good. >> You know, the sweeping of the roads is is great. The downside of our roads is we don't have curves. Okay? So, it's not and we don't have good catch bases. All right? Our infrastructure sucks. All right? But in all honesty, the winter time you're going around you're putting sand down and we prefer to have sand rather than salt right because of the lake >> a
093piece of chemical mixture though too the green >> but it's more sand >> we try more sand around the lake than anything else >> so basically my opinion is if you don't have a if you don't have a structure with a good sump >> right >> okay your catch basin should be pumped just prior to winter before you start putting all the sand down because if the basin is already full where does it in a row, you know what I mean? So, primarily it's a fall >> clean up. It's a fall cleanup. >> You know what I mean? >> That's what he does. >> Heads through the winter with your madness, you know, the leaves are down. >> It's a spring and fall. That's what that's what he does. >> And you know, you could
094also sleeping in between. You know, you could also see areas of the the roads around the lake where because of hills, there's more sand than on a a level 500 yards or 400 yards of East or West Wakefield Boulevard or Lake Drive that'll level. So, there's not a lot of sand. You know, you take some turns and some ups and downs where they really lay the sand down to prevent icing. rightly so. There's going to be a lot more sand in those catch basins than a level catch a a catch basin on a level street. Okay. He did do um we spoke about the uh the repairs that he did by Dutton's place at the end of Third Bay and I think that came out beautiful. I know he didn't address the the brook that
095goes underneath that red cottage. Um something else came up last year apparently where a spring developed somewhere in those rocks somewhere and he has no idea how to handle it. >> Under the cottage. >> One in a cottage. >> He said there's a them rock somewhere. Is it on the lake side? >> It's to the right. If you're looking at that cottage, it's off to the right. There's a driveway and then it was >> there's almost a green pipe coming out of the ground there, I think. Isn't it? >> I remember he said last year was coming out of there. >> It never happened before. Jeff, Jeff, is there a possibility that when something like this occurs that he call us and maybe Jeff and one of us can run up and look at it?
096>> Could you suggest that to him? >> That's true. [laughter] >> You're a big guy. You're a big guy. >> I don't direct what his job responsibilities are. >> You're going to report what he tells you. off to the lake. We'll put it that way or front. >> Who's the other lady? [laughter] >> I'll go with my report. >> There is a [laughter] Can I say something? There is a simpler way to control what basins he has to do at certain times and those are the ones that are directly connected to the lake collect to the outfall. All the other basins that connect to that basin are inlets. It's if you make your attention to that one basin that goes to the lake, >> but there's 150 of them throughout the west and east west
097side. >> I made a survey. They asked somebody >> why aren't you meeting or on the committee? >> What? >> Why aren't you meeting with him? >> I've been talking to him for years. I've been talking to him for three years. He gives me no comment back. I've been talking to him for three years through Miss Perez and everybody else and the the survey is there. You gave them some hoods. >> Yeah. >> Not one of them has been placed. Not one of Not one thing has been done since the survey was done two and a half years ago >> for catch basins. >> Well, we looked at all >> Well, no. We looked at all the existing catch basins that did correctly into the lake. >> Oh, I have seen hoods. Hoods have appeared
098this this winter. I have seen hoods. Not not I'm not talking about those yellow silk bait things that go into the basin. These are go on the out these go on the outfall of in the basin on the outfall of the basin. >> Oh, I I'm talking about the filtration. >> You're talking about the silver because I've seen all that filtration stuff go in. Yeah. >> How many did you give them? >> What? >> How many did you give them? >> Three or four of the big metal >> by DC >> and they slide right into the >> They go right over the hood. connection and then it goes over and all it does you have the flow line of pipe >> it goes down below the flow line a trash >> holds everything back
099one other medium >> you know what all >> in my opinion the most way the lake >> contaminated sheep >> goes for the best >> yeah that's that's the contamination source >> antifreeze >> every you know especially with all the heavy equipment that's up and down Wakefield Boulevard during during construction periods. >> You know, a guy comes to clean my boiler, he drives off my driveway. I got a puddle of oil on my driveway. Could you imagine a dump trunk or a cement mixer that's there for two hours? >> Really the I mean, it seems like an easy to me it seems like yes, oil off a vehicle. Oh my god, it's really terrible. But is it really the phosphorus like from a lot of yard chemicals? Isn't that >> to me much of a
100bigger >> and nitrogen a little bit of oil hydraulic oil off a piece of >> actually actually on drive there is a oil separator manhole that goes on the pipe in the easement >> but they never clean it because they don't know how or that's the way Jim said they didn't even know it was there. >> There's an old saying in waste water dilution is the solution. [laughter] There you go. It's a big lake. >> Jeff, anything else? >> Yeah, a couple things. >> Go ahead. >> Uh 229 West. So, that's uh from Prattz. They're uh replacing two catch basins there. Um and they're replacing all the clogged pipes that run in between the catch basins for about 300 ft. And that's starting soon. Um >> and they start there. Okay. >> Isn't that happening
101near a project that we approved that >> no? No. The the folks that are putting that storage unit, they're taking their shed out, putting a storage unit in front. >> Yeah. And they're storm water management. They're >> Matt asked them to put footing drains. >> He's stubbing a pipe to that. >> Yeah. And he's they're hooking into this. Yeah. during that process. >> Uh >> so they can so so I just want to understand this. So their footing drains for their garage, right, are piped directly into the catch basin into the lake. But when somebody builds a house, they can't put their footing drains in the lake. I just want to make sure I'm clear I'm clear with that. Okay. I just want to make sure that I'm clear that that's clarified. >> Well, I
102I think it was remedi I think it's remedying some sort of big like >> groundwater issues. Cleaning good clean water from your roof and from your footing drains into the lake. All right. Would remedy a lot of stuff like all your phosphorus, nitrogen, and [ __ ] coming off your lawns and stuff. >> You know what I mean? >> Well, how would it remedy that? I mean, >> it would be running across your lawn going to the lake. >> Oh, you're saying if your lawn is >> if it comes off your roof and you and it goes underground drain. Yes, that I totally agree with you, >> but we don't we we don't allow it. >> Well, maybe we should. >> But we allow the garage with a footing drain to go into a catch base and
103into into the land. >> So, but in all honesty, the cleanest water you can get, the cleanest water you can get is rain water >> and your subterranean water. All right. Um we have now gone to the point of letting people run the water with those drains to a stone reserve behind the uh uh seaw wall where it brings the temperature down then goes out through weepholes into the lake. But we should address collecting that water. And the reason I'm saying that is there are a lot of homes with awful green grass, >> right? and and on slopes >> and and sloping properties. So all of that nitrogen and phosphorus is going into the lake >> unless you let them use a nonfospherous grass fertilizer that's been put put out. >> I know you can't
104>> but deep says it doesn't make a difference. It's still it still uh it still puts nutrients into the lake that the bacteria likes. It doesn't matter. >> Yeah. Whether they're not exactly nitrogen or close enough to nitrogen that it's close enough that it but I think Gary makes a good point, right? Because at least all of that water off the roof, all that water coming down from the gutters isn't hitting the green grass and bringing all the nutrients down into the lake. You're saying if there's a pipe, it goes underground. >> Even if it's a perforated pipe, right? So percolates. >> You could do it a number of ways, Marian. You could turn around, come down, grab your leader drains and everything. You can go into which we did with somebody else with an
105infiltrator. >> Right. >> Okay. infiltrator comes up to a certain point in time, it's perking into the ground. If you have a small rain, it's not going to come out of the infiltrator and go to your lake. But if it comes up to where the ground can't take it, it now comes out the pipe and goes to the lake directly. Nothing running across, nothing running across the yard. So Jeremy, if we wanted to make an adjustment to the ordinance so that we [clears throat] could approve systems like that or in fact make them requirements. Um, do we have to write it up and bring it to the board of selectment? >> No, because your regulations are you you you create those and I don't think there's anything in there that says you can't put your
106footing drains directly into the lake. I don't know what the process has been. There is Yeah. So, so and and I would agree with Gary. I think I think footing drains footing drains directly into the lake. >> It's clean and it's cold. >> And and my experience has always been the footing drains can go right to the lake. That's that's not an issue. Roof drains, I would I would I would probably want to think about that a little bit more because that potentially you've got stuff in the gutters. It's asphalt roof. It's, you know, it's warmer. it's, you know, all that kind of stuff. So, that should probably be infiltrated, >> but it's it's more about using the zoning regulations and the requirements that are in there in terms of impervious >> to be able
107to work with somebody and say, "Okay, we're not going to accept or or even we could put something in your regs that say no no more uh runoff that well and actually the state the state requires it anyway with the storm water management guidelines that you can't you can't have a net increase in your runoff off of a crop. So that's where you get into the infiltration stuff. But a a footing drain, it's really not runoff because that's in the ground. You're you're intercepting it when you put that footing in. So you're just giving it an outlet. >> So I would say that if over the next six months or so, we bring this up for every situation we have with an engineered plan. The engineers will just start doing it. >> They're going to
108run with it. They're doing it in other communities. >> They'll do what we ask them to. We say we'd like to see it this way. Next time they'll come in, they'll have it done. Yeah. >> So I think we can just do that within >> and we can talk about it at the acceptance level so that they have the time before the approval meeting to make the adjustment >> and we can do it in staff meetings and we talk with them before they even get to you. >> Yeah. I think >> has tried real hard to not get him out of this but me and Bill out of all of everybody here have huge experience with disasters in North gas bill at Dor. So we worked closely with the D. It is illegal for any
109building or structure to go into the storm water, the sewer or anything direct pipe because if the contaminant comes from the house or from outside, it goes in the house. So it is totally illegal to tap some that garage into the drainage. or if you have an oil tank in your house, where's it going to go? They would actually rather have it go into the ground than into a a stream or a body of water. >> And we found out the hard way because somebody couldn't live in their house for three months >> because it went right into their basement. >> It ain't fun. But how is somebody's what's in somebody's house connecting to what the footing d the footing drain is just infiltrating ground >> there's not the water tight seal that for your
110for your basement anything can leak into the ground water that goes into your footing dra >> but then wouldn't that be true of the ground water going across your lawn into the lake, too. >> It's like even if you have a sump pump in your house, that's not supposed to go into the drain. That's supposed to go onto the ground. >> I mean, running your gutters to the lake, the roof, that probably would be a problem. How could that get out of your house, >> your basement? That's the >> check if you don't believe us. >> Jeremy's Jerry's me is Jeremy's making a note about it so we can >> Her name was Deb. She retired. >> She retired. >> You guys were much fun. >> Oh, it was a blast. >> Jeff, you want
111two more things? Two more things quickly. They started uh paving the boat launch area where they put the culprit in today. They're going to finish it tomorrow. And there's um several crossover pipes that they're going to replace. One being at the bottom of Bond's Lane and one around the 700 uh East Wakefield, I guess. Pipes that go under the road, crossover pipes, you call them. So, they're going to be replaced uh next couple of weeks. >> Is the 700 one near Norcross? Do you know >> because there's a lot of runoff from Northeast 680 >> maybe >> east? >> Yes. Oh no, that's not at North Cross. >> He said 700. Then he said 680, 660 or something like that. So it was around the 700, but those pipes are collapsed. So they're going to
112put a some new pipes and that's it. >> All right, Jeff, just from my perspective and I'm sure the commission, you know, I don't want Jim to look at this as we're micromanaging, but I think the more information he provides you that you provide to the committee, the more confident we feel that the lake is being protected and and >> my opinion speaking with him. I I think he it's the top priority for him. That's just my opinion. Um maybe he's blown smoke, but it just seems like that's that that's important to him. He was on the wetlands commission. >> Yeah. I mean, none of us these our comments are not negative. They're just objective uh views or opinions or suggestions. Objective, not subjective, of what we would like or I would like or you
113would like to see in place. That's all. >> That's fine. We we have a nice discussion that once a month. >> Good. There you go. And let Jeff call next month. >> Maryanne, then Jamie, anything with Highland Lake? >> No, there hasn't been a meeting since the last >> No. Okay. Uh Selecman, anything to say? >> I'm good. Like I said, I'm here to learn from you guys. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> And the discussion on the Dr. Moing, we did the break boarding and buoys. We're waiting a lot for a lot of information from the state on that, aren't we? >> Wait, there Well, you know more than I do about that. >> Well, I just All I know is that the state is doing a big uh like research project. I don't
114know what happened with all the comment. I mean, they're probably parsing through all the comments that they asked people to send in, right? >> I know one of the lake, what is it? Warm, one of the shallower lakes they put an ordinance on, right? >> And then a lot of people were looking at DP to say, well, what and I what I saw I just saw a briefing thing I think in the Harford business Harford Business Journal when it was a Yeah. building. Yeah, it's Harford Business Journal. they you know a lot of people were saying well >> everybody's looking at D for these in a sense recommendations or or whatnot but all the lake and the counter that was like well all the lakes are different some are really shallow some are much wider
115some are deeper so some people were immediately kind of opposed to saying well if we just it should be more of a casebyase basis >> that's my view >> but maybe the D is going to put out or D is going to put out some general guidelines Do do we have the authority to >> to not allow wakeboats in certain areas? Do we have the authority to do that? >> It's D. >> That's D. >> It's D. But >> ordinances would have to >> But I think I I I agree with that. Every lake is different. And you know the what the re research is showing is that the [music] it's a two-fold set of issues with the wake boarding boats, right? There's the stirring up of the lake bottom and increasing the nutrient load
116in shallower waters is one issue and the other issue is the dissipation. Right? So that's why people are putting buoys everywhere because it takes 600 500 to 600 feet in each direction for the wakes wakeboard waves to dissipate. And so that's why people's docks are breaking and you know so um so it's it's a two-fold issue and we have a narrow lake. So, you know, if you look at the research and you just logically go down the path of like, well, what would you need to do to allow wakeboard boats to continue to enjoy themselves on our lake, but do it in a way that doesn't increase the nutrient load and doesn't threaten people's waterfront property. And it's put them in the middle of the lake in Third Bay. >> Third, >> that's it. >>
117I think it's a great idea. Put them in Third Bay. I live in Third Bay. I'm going to come in and I'm going to get I don't know an adjustment on my taxes for the amount of damage I'm going to have on my [laughter] >> Well, I mean it's like >> but who's even going to but >> it's not even it's never going to be enforced. That's the problem. Like it's just the the town doesn't have the resources to enforce that. Has there been if there's an ordinance that says that I'll be out there videoing when there's 30 ft off my dock waves over my wall videoing the jet skiers that are zooming around at 70 m an hour on Sunday nights. Oh, it doesn't bother [laughter] >> and that's a small wave this big
118when you're one. >> So So Matt Matt built my dock. >> You're not kayaking, Jeff. >> Matt built my dock 10 years ago [laughter] and I asked him, "Will these two hinges hold on to this?" and his response was, "I never lost one yet." [laughter] >> Put me to the test. >> I hadn't fixed my doctor's winner. So, >> we got 10 years. >> Anyway, >> you're out of You're out of warranty. >> Hi. Um, I don't think there's anything else on the agenda that I'm aware of, unless I miss something, guys. Anything? >> What are Oh, you're talking to D about the buoys and the markers. Did you have something to share on that? >> Yeah, in for it was a while back. I mean enforcement of that basically is it's it's it's what
119she told us to contact their en environmental conservation officer for the area. If we know of a of a a buoy that's out there that shouldn't be there, we need to go through their ENCON officer, but they don't have a boat. >> So it's like we they would need to use our boat to get out there is basically what it is. You know, now with the lake, with the extent of the draw down, >> you can almost see why some of the buoys are out there. I mean, some of the rocks way the hell up. >> Really, >> you know. >> Well, those are markers. That's different. >> Markers. >> We don't I don't know what I don't see any difference in anything that's in the water. They all >> Well, I'm saying some people
120put those in to mark where rocks are so people's propellers don't get damaged, but other people put them because they don't want the heavy weights to come. >> How do we how does a novice distinguish a marker from >> there is a code for buoys when you look at >> Yeah. But again, >> if you follow that then it's simple because you know what what color is for hazardous and what color is for direction. Well, also all buoys are supposed to be permitted. >> We had talked about this before. The D [clears throat] has the right to >> or is responsible for the buoys that are navigational, >> right? >> And we're responsible for the Moring buoys. So, >> correct. >> To my knowledge, there's only one navigational buoy in the lake, >> Sucker Cove.
121>> Right. That one. Yeah. >> But every Oh, the rest of them are all illegal. >> There were five There were five permits out there. We We've got them. I couldn't tell you what they are off hand that I mean the slalom course of course is is one of those permits and there were four others. >> We gave that one woman a permit in front of >> But you mean permitted buoys that are >> out 520 or 5. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So there are five permitted. >> There are five that are permit. >> I mean the fact is you could probably walk around the lake now and see because they have to have heavy I mean >> some kind of an anchor. >> They have some kind of an anchor that's probably on the
122ground right now. Well, if only five were permitted and we can get the conservation officer in and hitch a ride with the marine patrol >> right next >> all but those five to be looked at. >> Right. Right. That's a good point. That would be a good point. >> And maybe there's a valid reason, but then they need to get permit. >> Yeah. >> And then we got to figure out who they belong to. >> And that's some some of them aren't going to be hard. Some of them probably will be. >> Yeah. >> Motion to adjurnn. [laughter] I have one more question. >> Any other question? >> I have one more question. >> Our police vote. Now we have ordinances. We have rules. We have regulations. 22 foot boat. You are supposed to be
123200 ft from shoreline water. Has anybody followed up on how many summones or tickets have been given out by boat that as far as I am concerned living on a lake and stuff like that >> tickets or warnings warnings anything because all I do when I came to a couple of meetings right it was raining out the boat was going up so to me it looks like they're sucking up >> that's exactly what it looks like >> so should we >> it's a free I was told that it's a free open book to grab whatever time at >> okay now you know when you really look at it and I don't know how this town's program goes but when I was police commission every bit of time whether it was overtime or anything went towards
124your retirement okay >> so if you're sucking up time there just to get retirement you're not doing anything for us we have a problem >> because what are you going to when you turn around and you say, "Okay, we're going to let the we're going to let the weight board votes go." All right. You have to be down the center of the lake and who's going to enforce this? We don't have anybody enforcing anything, >> right? That's my point. I I don't think there is much enforcement. So, I I don't know. How do we how do we find that out? Do we ask the town manager to ask the police chief? >> Yeah, we can ask you the list of violations. I know In prior years, nobody was even signed up for it. All of
125a sudden, this year, everybody signed up for it. They all took the course. I seen them pull over a couple boats myself while I was out there fishing. >> But this year was the most action that boat ever got, >> right? >> I also have the most viol. >> Understood. I've seen that, too. >> I I think my opinion the lake should be a regular patrol schedule. So if like Jim has people >> not overtime >> like Jim has people who >> there's one guy who plows the lake that's his area of plowing. He doesn't plow Main Street or up behind the churches or anything. He plows the lake. I think an assignment should be and it doesn't have to be the same officer every time but it should be a regular routine assignment. This
126is your area for today. >> Like a lake be >> Yeah. Like a beep. Yeah, >> when the new >> everybody's when the new police chief came on what two years ago, he was at one of the selectin he got introduced and I brought up I says doesn't it why not just have you have because he finally got the full staffing. I says, "You don't have to schedule. You could tell the guy this morning you're in the car. After lunch, you're in the boat for four hours. That's all. Just just break up your time. Not on overtime, regular shift that we're paying for. And just split it up. I don't want to know when he's out there. I want him out there, but I don't want to know at 2 o'clock on Saturday afternoon to
127two to four he's only there. Everybody's going to know that, >> you know, and that's and I this year, you said we saw more of the boat on there. This is the first time in >> this year. I mean, so I don't to me it doesn't matter when he's on there as long as he's out there. >> Yeah. >> Can I can I bring up something and then we'll close the meeting to think about? >> I have one more question. >> Go ahead then. I'll go. >> Okay. >> Gary actually brought this up to me. We haven't talked about it in this forum yet, but Highland Lake gets a lot of action, right? You're >> What about Winchester Lake? >> You're around the lake a lot. There a lot. >> I knew how to bring
128in, >> but who's driving around Winchester Lake? Who's looking at what's happening at the Still River? There's a lot of stuff going on right along the Still River. who's looking at what's going on on the Mad River that starts all the way up on Grantville Road or it actually goes beyond Grantville Road. Like that stuff doesn't seem like it gets a lot of attention and it does seem like it's probably worth a schedule of like, you know, every now and again, maybe once a month driving around those areas as well because all the wetlands need protecting. Not. I mean, yes, Highland Lake is really super important for a lot of reasons we all know, but it does seem like the other ones are maybe stuff's going under the radar. >> The applications are highly. >>
129Yeah, exactly. >> We need to break it up. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. I think it's valid. You brought that point you brought up last time like maybe we break it up as commission. >> Just one last just one last comment >> and look at an area a little more closely. There's not that much square feet. >> Yeah, we could do it. We could take it on. Sure, we could drive around. >> So, it's not all on you. >> All right, Russ. >> Got to be careful. >> Russ is going to put the drive around. >> Just one last comment. We have a a liaison on between this committee and the selectman. Well, the selectman has a liaison on to the committee. We have with public works. We have it with Highland Lake. Do
130we want one or think about one with the police department? I don't know. I don't know. >> Just think about it. We don't need an answer now because the lake is not going to be uh patrolled until April or May or June. So kick it around in your head. >> What? >> You sure about that? >> Is there a motion to adjourn? >> Motion to Jeff made a motion a while back. Second. There you go. >> All right. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone, family. Safe travels, >> Maryanne. Uh, the chief of the police department are invited to the super water meeting next month. >> Okay, great. >> Just so we, you know, they need to be involved in this, too. >> Great. >> Commission. >> Oh, to the, uh, extra special meeting that we're >> super
131up to you. I'll tell you what I >> Hey, thanks for loaning me your chair. I appreciate it. >> I hope you left it in as good condition as it is when I >> I didn't eat anything in it, so it should be all right. I didn't drop any [laughter] fruit. >> Yeah, I know. I know. I'm not going to say that. Have a good >> Don't worry about it. You too, Marian. >> Good night. Have a good >> note. There was an area of control us. All right, ladies. Have a good 320. Yes, all of a sudden I went Nobody said he was abused. I get that wrong about this. That's what I was already much I guess they don't know what is There's other people. the difference. Okay. >> So, we're already further.
132Excuse me.