Board of Selectmen - Oct 6, 2025 Regular Meeting

001Good evening. Tonight is Monday, October the 6th, 2025. It's 700 p.m. I'd like to call the regularly scheduled board of selectments meeting to order. >> Linda Graa, >> Troy Lamir, >> Paul Marino, Paul Harrington, Tyler Shalashi, >> Glenn Albertius, >> William Hester, >> William Poso. >> Selectoman Perez is excused. Please join me for the pledge of allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Agenda review. Anything? >> I just have a typo. >> Okay. >> On line four. a minutes of the special meeting. It was just regular meeting. It wasn't a special meeting. >> Anything else? >> We have an approval of the minutes. Make a motion to approve the minutes

002with the correction. >> Okay. Uh the correction was on the agenda on the seconds. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Uh Bill made the motion. Try seconded it. >> Okay. Well, there was a delay. So any other discussion? Seeing none. All in favor? 6 nothing. Minutes approved. Moving on to item number five, citizens comments. The board of selectman welcomes public comments. Speakers will be limited to three minutes and may speak once this round. Please give your name and turn on the microphone before you speak. Anyone wish to speak? Come on up. >> Michael, >> uh, hit the red button. >> Jeff will get it for you. >> Thanks. >> Michael can Morland Road, Winchester. I've got three things to say. Uh, one is, has anybody uh gone to Mario's or come out of Kent's Pizza?

003>> Yes. Have you ever been almost hit by a bike or a skateboarder? >> I've been home by a car. >> My wife and my wife and I have gone to Princeton a couple times to see her sister who's a professor down there. Anyway, on the on the flag poles down there or the poles, they had walk your bikes, walk your skateboards. Now, with these ebikes, they really zip down there. I was just on Main Street. And the other one is uh I think there should be police officers at down at Raleigh Street playground. I know alcohol isn't allowed down there. Am I correct? >> Correct. >> That's correct. >> But over at uh ball field down there, you smell marijuana. My grandson asked me a couple times, "What's that?" I told him it's summon

004burning rags, but I think there should be some police officers down there instead of going up to uh the Forest View Cemetery. I seen a couple police cars go up that way and park up there. There's nothing up there. And the other one is I've been here for before for this was the uh naming the bridge New Street or just named New Street after the two after the two uh Samuel Horn and uh Wesley Gibbs, two Medal of Honor recipients that are buried up in Forest. you a cemetery uh from the Civil War. I talked to to uh Jay Casease a couple times last year and he told me they bring it up this year. So I called him a couple times, left messages, nothing. So he last year he told me, "Well, they're arguing

005over different stuff over there." I look in the paper and they're arguing over the state bug. They didn't want the Prayan mantis because that come from another country. I don't know if they ever settled it. Uh I left several message to uh our state reps in Harford what's his name? Uh Jay Casease and uh and uh Steve forget his last name now. >> Harding. >> Yeah, >> Steve Harding. >> Yeah. Nothing. >> I just like that settled. I bet this is the about third or fourth time I've been down here for this. You know that. >> Yep. We will uh >> and November 11th is coming up. It would be something do something nice for them. >> All right. We will uh try to get that to the nomination committee. You need to wrap up

006though. You're over three minutes. >> I'm asking now the board of selectment to try and do something. You know, this a shame that we can't do anything for him and I'm not ashamed of being a patriot. >> I'm through now. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Who else would speak? >> Good evening. Marshian 118 Sucker Brook Road. Uh speaking as a resident tonight, not one of my other jobs that I do. I'm asking you the board of selectment not to approve the request for a tax abatement for bachelor school property. This property should be taxed at its appraised value until the project's completed. you're if you're using the rationale of using the sale price for taxing a property, then all the other properties that have been sold at town should be valued and taxed accordingly,

007such as a recently sold home on Highland Lake that recently sold for 1.2 one,215,000, but it's only appraised at 1,ion58,000. The original agreement, to my understanding, was the property would be fully taxed until it became affordable housing. Now, someone wants to change the agreement. Who will be paying the survey and closing costs for this? the town or the purchaser. Purchaser received funding to purchase this property 18 months ago and approval from planning and zoning commission eight months ago, but has not purchased the property yet. How many years will the town have to wait for them to receive funding to complete this project? Thank you. >> Anyone else wish to speak? Debonsky, 181 Hill Road. I'm here in objection to the abatement for the uh housing project for bachelor school just as the pre previous gentleman.

008Um it has been taken quite a long time and I I am not surprised that they're asking for a tax abatement but at the meeting when this was approved for the special meeting it was by very slim margin that it was approved. However, at that time um I asked several times I finally got an answer that the property at that time according to Josh Kelly that it was $1.6 $6 million value, but it was two years prior to that special meeting. However, we now know that's, you know, it's substantially more no matter what the case may be. We aren't looking at it as a school for a value. We're looking at it as a building property for a value as we were that day because it wasn't a school anymore. So um when we went

009to that meeting they had stated they being the housing authority that they would because the question came up they would not be seeking any type of tax reductions and here we are asking for a tax abatement and um what what's to stop them at some point in time down the road that maybe they want to sell the property are they going to come to Winstead Town Boing and Okay. Ask for permission to sell it for a profit. No, they're not going to do that. Do they have the right to do that? Sell it for a profit? Absolutely they do. So, what's to stop them from doing that? So, this is turning into a uh affordable housing, which I'm not against. However, um we will not get any tax money from any individual that lives there

010unless they own a vehicle. They may pay property taxes on a vehicle. So it's going to be 35 plus units at whatever you know rental and that's it. So I'm confused as to how they came up with the property being valued at 4 million now. Am I correct reading that >> 4.2 >> that that's the current value. And is there an appraisal with that documentation stating what that value is or is it just floating in the air? Do we have any type of documentation as the true value of this property >> currently right now? >> Please. So the uh the 4.2 value right now currently on on the card that's in the assessor's office. It's it's $6 million which that knocks down 70% which is going to give you the 4.2 million valuation. That's what's

011on the assessor's card. I'll note that because that property was a school that when we go through a reval, those properties are typically skipped over because they're town property. We're not collecting taxes. So, how old that $6 million valuation is? I'm sure it's several several years old, but where you're getting that was the last time that that property was looked at, it had a $6 million valuation. >> So, we went through re-evaluation. Was that reassessed? that was not reassessed because it was town owned property at the time. So it was not reassessed at that time. Similar to town hall, we don't put a a value on town. >> So we don't have a true value of the property. However, we can say that it's at least 4.2 million. So they're asking to pay taxes on

012$300,000 purchase price that that they are purchasing it for until they get a CO, which could take any any amount of time. There's there's no specific time for that. They're estimating maybe up to two years and that they'll pay $4,725 a year and then for some reason I don't know where the 42 they come up with $42,500 a year for property taxes after the fact. >> All right, you're over three minutes. >> Based on what? >> You can answer. >> Um there there's a statute that was passed in uh uh n excuse me 2024. It's PA24-143 um which works with these affordable housing projects which is based on profit and loss statements and they're determining approximately $42,500 a year and that that's done by state statute and that would be after they received their CF

013where the town would no longer have any input on the actual tax. >> So that dollar amount is going to be that's the tax base for this property. Is that >> it's no and and that's why it does say approximate because it is going to be based on the rents that they charge and it's going to be based on expenses as well. There's a whole formula that comes in and I'm assuming you you probably pulled the document online. That's why it says it's approximately $42,500. It I'm not going to say it's going to go down significantly. It's not going to go up significantly, but it is going to be roughly in that ballpark once they receive the CO by pulling down that that statue of PA 24-143. >> Todd, I'd like to ask for a

014few more minutes because this is quite important. >> You can do it in the next round. >> Well, I'd like to just leave this part of my my open comments here to say that I I am um a taxpayer Winstead. This is a property that I owned as well as anybody else in this room who lives here. And I don't appreciate that they come in here to say what what we as a town would do with this building whether we continue it as a school or not and that they're doing us a favor by purchasing it because they are not doing us a favor. We got uh jilted by this whole transaction back when that special meeting occurred and I'm I'm uh adamant about no approval for our abatement. So you're saying I can speak

015later? >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else wish to speak? Seeing no one else, moving on to item number six town managers report. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and good evening board and good evening residents of uh Winchester and our and our guests. Um to start off, uh the uh spirit of the community was on full display this past month. Um I did have the privilege of uh joining our seniors at the 59th anniversary lunchon um which was absolutely tremendously well attended with over a hundred seniors that came together for an afternoon of food, dancing, and singing. Unfortunately, there are were no pictures that were taken that day, but uh it was it was a great uh time to sit with our seniors, have a bite to eat with them, and just see them,

016you know, absolutely loving everything that the senior center, which has also been dubbed as the active aging center, um by our wonderful director, Jen Kelly. Um so, kudos to to 59 years and here's to another 59 years. I'd be remissed if I also didn't bring up our other friends, which is our friends of Main Street, um which had their fall foliage fest. Uh I did bring the family up and every single booth that was out there was just absolutely tremendous. Um my kids had face painting, they got balloons, we ate a little too much food we shouldn't have eaten. So, I wanted to just take a second and and definitely thank the friends of Main Street for just an absolute uh fun activity that we we got to experience uh on Saturday uh last weekend.

017Moving on, uh we did take the office on the road. We started visiting a lot of our manufacturing businesses. The our first stop was over at the uh Hubble. Uh we met with upper management and pleased to share that they're making further investments into their facility. a clear sign that their ongoing com uh commitment to Winstead management had high praise for the support that they're receiving from town hall, particularly noting how smoothly the land office is functioning and how they're handling all their upgrades. From there, after Hubble, we went over to Fairchild Industries. Uh the owner has put significant capital dollars into his business. For those that aren't familiar with Fairchild Industries, um it's a machinist uh type environment, which typically all of those type of environments that I've walked into did not contain air

018conditioning. Um he the owner and Leland, there we go. Leland actually has made a capital investment and has put air conditioners in all of his workspaces in the back. And just walking through um Fairchild Industries and seeing the employees, how happy they were. I happen to go out there on a very warm day and seeing all of these new ACs. But beyond the AC investment, Leland is looking to actually increase the footprint of his building as well, saying that business is up. Great little backstory um that he actually came up from Texas and fell in love with that particular business and fell in love with Winstead and actually purchased it a few years back. So, congrats to Leland and we look forward to watching you grow. Moving on, EDC job fair. uh economic development commission

019held its annual job fair which drew an impressive crowd. Uh we welcomed our newest business marshals into the mix and in and attendees took advantage of the free professional head shot that were provided by acast employees reporting uh meeting a number of strong candidates and several local businesses expressed gratitude for the opportunity to connect directly with residents. The energy in the room was positive and was encouraging to see so many people eager to work and invest in our community. So again, the beginning of this manager report is a lot of shout outs to all of our boards and commission, the EDC. Great job on the job fair that you held last weekend. Now, on to the business. We do have a new IT service provider here at town hall. As of October 1st, the town

020has entered into an agreement with Novice Insight based in East Harford to provide managed IC IT service. The decision came after a competitive RFP process. Novvice will handle our IT needs for the remaining nine months of fiscal year 26 as well as fiscal year 27 and 28. We expect this new partnership to save the town roughly $85,000 over the next three years. I've worked with Novice uh in the past. I can also let you know that do Novice is also a company that is Crag uh vetted, meaning that we actually didn't have to go out to an RFP process. Uh the state has allowed certain agencies that you know tick certain boxes and agree on prices. Uh Novas Insight were one of those, but we felt best as a team that we go out see

021what the uh the bids look like and and Novas at the end of the day ended up winning it. And you can see that over the next three years, the town's going to be saving $85,000 in our IT services, which is great. Um if you hadn't had a chance, I'm pleased to announce the launch of our new refresh town website. The updated design feels a little less cluttered, at least to me and some of the other people I've spoke with. It does make it a lot easier to find what you need. If you're ever unsure of where to look, if your buttons missing, please, please, please just go in the little white box that pops up on the on the start of the screen and the exact words are, "What can we help you find?"

022Uh, that should point you in the right direction and show you the link that you're looking for. Um, I know I've had a few requests from residents. What about this button? What about that button? What about this? If we load it all back onto our homepage, it's going to look like the old homepage. So, we try to declutter it a little bit, put that little search box. If you don't see exactly what maybe your favorite item is, type it into that white box and it's going to bring you right to the uh uh point that you're looking for in the website. Again, this is an opportunity for me to pitch. Um, if you haven't signed up for Everbridge, I implore you to do that. It's a get notified button on the town's website. Literally will

023take you 30 seconds. you can sign up for what you want to subscribe to. Great example is we had a water main break uh last week. I sent an email out to the board of selectman. Sorry, Bill, I'm gonna tease you a little bit, but uh Okay. Um I sent an email out to our board of selectman. I obviously social media channels have our website and then I obviously hit our Everbridge. Now, Bill sent a great email to me that following morning. Maybe it was a text and Bill's exact text was, "Hey, I didn't get the Everbridge update." And I said, "That's great." Because what I did with that particular update is I geo fenced the area that was affected with the water main break. Bill obviously doesn't live in the area. Does Bill really

024care that there he's a selectman, so of course he cares. But as a resident, if you have water, I don't want to send out mass panic. Really, what Everbridge is used for is great communication. And I never want to overcommunicate with you because at the end of the day when there is an important message and I tell you that there's a water main break that never affected you. I don't want you looking at that message. I want you looking at the important ones. So we just geoence some of the areas. So if we send out a message and you don't get it, but maybe one of your friends did, it may have only affected their area and not your area. But a big message, you know, when we ran out of water last year, obviously

025that would go to everybody if we have to close roads down, things of that nature. But uh we are using the geoence uh technology in Everbridge and that if it's in your area, we're definitely going to let you know and then obviously we'll put it up on our town's website and obviously on our social media channels. Uh DDS contract negotiations. We're currently negotiating with the Connecticut Department of Developmental Services. If you're unfamiliar, they they take a little bit of our senior center and provide services there. Um the discussions have centered around adjusting the agreement to be a little bit more fair. uh share the costs of rent, utility and administrative support. While details are still being finalized, we anticipate the new terms will be much more favorable to the town and the state has agreed

026completely that they seem to have been underpaying um for the services that the town and the space that the town has been providing. So, we look to have an agreement very very soon with DDS and looking to get a little bit more money on the town side. Safe Streets for All. Um tomorrow begins our first meeting on October 7th. Um it'll be in the Hicks room right across the hall. Uh the kickoff will allow committee members to meet review federal SS4A program establish local priorities plan. Next step uh town staff will facilitate the first gathering. After that a consultant will be selected through an RFQ. We'll take over residents interested in joining the round table and encourage anybody that wants to be a part of safe streets for all contact. We can get you in

027tomorrow. If tomorrow doesn't work, there will be several meetings down the road. But this this is something important where we can, you know, establish our safe streets. And again, this is being funded by a federal grant. Um, I just got word from Chris Murphy's office tonight that I know the government uh in Washington is shut down. That money is still flowing, which is exciting for us that we can continue with our safe streets for all. Bridge Street intersection redesign. Over the weekend, the old pavement markings have been removed. Um, I know I I I made a lot of posts and said it was going to happen one day and then it rained and we didn't want to just go out there with black paint and cover up those lines because rain, snow, plows, those white

028lines would eventually show again and we'd have to go back and paint them again. So, we wanted to actually hydro blast that white paint off of the payment so there's no signs of what almost happened up there. Um, there was a few questions that came up I think at our last meeting. The amount spent to date on Bridge Street and I believe selectman Lamir brought this up or asked the question total was $12,58949. That does not include the work under the 2017 report which studied that entire intersection. Just to note, the grant that was given to the town was a total of 829,64. So to date out of the829604 only $12,58949 have been spent. The grant end date is April of 2027 for all the sub projects. Given the complexity and the remaining work and

029trying to figure out all this stuff, we are going to DEEC and asking for a possible extension of the grant. Um they're typically willing to give extensions if you ask way before the deadline. So, we're starting to gauge uh DEECD for a possible extension because we want to get it right. Uh we will get it right. We'll obviously have more meetings about it. But um there you go. And I hope that answers your questions. Uh >> one of them is it gone back to engineers. Is that where that project stands now? >> Yes, it's it's back at engineers and it's it's back to unlocking, you know, new ideas. Got and that's going to take a while. Um school safety committee. We've reconvened the school safety committee bringing uh all the representatives of all the area

030schools together. When I say all the area schools together, I do mean the college. I do mean region 7 obviously all of our schools, Gilbert schools. Um so, and our emergency personnel, all of our superintendents, anybody the superintendents want to bring in. Our goal is to coordinate our efforts to ensure we're proactive about protecting our children. The first major task is in improving communications between all of us in determining the most effective way to reach everybody in an emergency. Jamie and I, our fire marshal, are leading the efforts in that. We believe that Everbridge is the solution. We're not there yet, but I wanted to let I know everybody out there that's watching because obviously we know how important our children are. An example of of this is when schools are doing drills and drills

031are important that we all need to know that drills are happening because if we get a call at the office and they see a lot of kids outside of a school bal parents may panic and they might want to know why. This way a small unique group of people will know what's going on at the schools. We're obviously not going to disseminate this information because we obviously want to take our drills seriously. But we have started our school safety committees. We had our first meeting last week. It's a two-hour meeting. It was very well attended. All of the shareholders were there and we're going to figure this all out together. Another uh example was um over at the college campus. It was reported that uh a gentleman was walking with a rifle uh in his

032backpack. Um we knew nothing about him. Connecticut State Police, you know, the the the state police that protect the college, they had the information, but our own officers didn't know the information. It ended up being an airsoft gun, which is a good outcome, but at the end of the day, we need to know the stuff so we can protect all of our residents as well. And this is what's going to happen with school safety committee is how do we communicate what's going on in each one of our areas. So, and even stuff on the town side. We're going to let our schools know, not just Pearson and Hinsip, but all of the schools that there's an issue going on in town as well. So, school safety committee. Two more things I promise. Marshall's grand opening.

033Happy to report Marshall's is slated to open on March 20 March. Yeah, >> October 23rd. Um at 7:30 a.m. is the ribbon cutting. Um they do open their doors at 8:00. So they do want to cut the ribbon at 7:30. Uh if you can, please come out. Let's welcome our our new business to town. So October 23rd, it's an early start, 7:30 a.m., but please if you can come on out uh on October 23rd, I believe that's a Thursday. And last but not least, October is breast cancer awareness month. You'll see me in pink throughout the month, including tonight. Obviously, it's a small way to show support for those fighting the disease, remember those we've lost, help raise awareness about the importance of uh early detection and research. This has a p has personally struck

034my family many years ago. I'm proud to sit here today and still have my mother with me who as a survivor with early detection. I encourage everyone to join in however they can, whether it's by wearing pink, scheduling a screening, or supporting a friend or a loved one. With that, I'll open it up for questions. >> Uh, you said the Novvice IT company. >> Yes. >> Two years nine months. Kind of a weird contract, isn't it? >> It is. Be Yes. Um, we when we looked at it, when we opened up the contract, we saw that this contract actually ended in October. We like to line up our contracts with fiscal year. So when we put it out to bid, we said bid for nine months, then bid for a year and then bid for

035a year. So this way we're hitting it, you know, right in because you're getting they could take an increase and it's very difficult to budget, but if I know the number prior to putting the budget together makes budgeting like a little bit easier. So that's why we did nine months, one year or one year. >> I missed the shadow. >> You missed the who? >> I missed the shadow. >> Oh, I didn't. And and uh thank you, Mr. Mayor. um point of personal privilege. My children who are very young actually sit home and watch me on YouTube on nights that I have. So, hello Cor and Henry. Thank you uh for um bringing that up. I know they're going to love that. Now that you open that door, it was really You'll all have to

036meet my son one day. Um I end up going into one of the rooms where there's a screen. He's literally watching us like the rerun version of us. I was home that night. got to go. Oh boy. I got to keep an eye on on this kid. So, so hello Cor and Henry and uh welcome to Winstead. But uh yeah, they they watch me on TV cuz I can't put him to bed tonight and my son watches the rewind version. >> I don't know. Any other questions? >> Um the only question I have was not in your report. How we making it out on Main Street and what's their end date ever? >> Oh, great. Excellent question. Um that project should it's on schedule. That project should be wrapping up by the beginning of November.

037>> Anyone else? >> So, did New Insight do the new website as well? >> No. Uh, believe it or not, Civic Lift um who was our current website provider. I worked um with >> Evan, thank you. I worked with Evan and uh we worked for the last several months creating this new website in the background. So there uh the good news is everything stayed where it was. The good news was is all of the information came over. Really what we did is we just made it a little simpler. So Evan over at Civic Lift out of Torington is still our website provider. Just working with him and and pulling some of the best practices. Um I don't want to say that we reinvented the wheel. We just looked at a lot of municipal websites and

038we said what works? What do we like? What don't we like? And let's bring in everything that we like. and we created, you know, what you see before us. Now, if something is wrong, please, please, please, there's a lot on our website. I think we got it all, but if you see something, I have no pride in ownership in it. Let me know and we can get it changed immediately. So, that it moving on to item number seven, correspondence 52A White Street, 824 referral. I just put that in the uh in the packet because I felt that it was cor excuse me was correspondence that did come from our consultant group Tammy uh D Carly who talked about um 52 White Street at the planning and zoning commission on September 22nd. You could see that

039they it does tech check some of the boxes of the uh POC. um if a house were to get uh established there, they had a couple things that they suggested that we do if we do go um and list this property or sell this property. Has to deal with a lot of easements for drainage and for sewage and all of that stuff. All very important things, all things we've thought of as a town as well before, you know, we even thought about listing this property. But I did want to get you the 824 um referral. That planning and zoning came back with a we have a planning and zoning member here. A uh a positive referral um to listing that property. I leave it with the board and what they would like to do next

040with it. >> What's the next step to get it listed? >> You direct me to list it. I'll work with our realtor Dave Satarana. um come up with a price, come up with any type of things. Um and then we can either bring it back to you at our next meeting in executive session, see if you like the price, not like the price, or um take the recommendation of the realer and put it on the MLS. Um as soon as a form of a motion, >> I I could use it in a form of motion to uh work with our realer to uh list 52 White Street. >> Exactly what he said. We have a motion. Do we have a second? >> Second. >> Thank you, Bill. Any discussion? >> Is this So, it's 2.5

041acres. >> 2.5 acres. >> So, how many parcels are they >> There's two now. They they could be merged. >> They're looking to merge the two parcels. Um, planning, this is under planning and zoning, and I and I agree with what planning and zoning is is recommending is putting them together, but there is a lot of the 2.5 acres that's very unusable. um because of swailes drainage swale that runs down through there coming from wall street and there's also a small piece of property on the north side of nanny drive which I think was recommended at the time >> which is the two two partial to that two parts that grapp all in favor >> 6 nothing unanimous Moving on to eight, boards and commissions. Nope. >> All right. Tonight we have uh one reappoint

042for planning and zoning Adam and we're going to we're going to call >> Rolley. Okay. Thank you. Uh >> yeah, thanks Pete. Uh up for reappoint term end date 10 of 2030. I'll make a motion to uh reappoint Adam quickly, planning and zoning member 10 of 2030. >> Second. >> What party is that? G >> green party. >> Any discussion? Do we have a second? >> I did. Okay. >> Uh all in favor? >> Unanimous. Uh, next up for consideration, Thomas Cook, zoning board of appeals, party Republican, uh, as an alternate member. Application date was 102 of 25. So, he will be up for nomination appointment at the next selection meeting. And next we have a nomination appointment. Uh date was 102924 of Janet Perry. Uh I did have a conversation with her. She'd like

043to move forward uh planning and zoning as an alternate party Democrat. Term end date 10 of 2030. >> We have a motion. Do we have a second? >> So moved for the motion. >> Any discussion? All in favor? Six. Nothing. Unanimous. And that's it. As always, we have many openings on the boards and commissions. So, if anybody's looking for something to do in the evenings, feel free to reach out. >> Thank you, Bill. Moving on to item nine, unfinished business. We have no unfinished business. Moving on to item 10, new business. A, Winston Housing Partners tax abatement request. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, with us tonight is the Winchester Housing Partner. I'm going to bring up Deerja and and Joselyn. So, please come on up. Um, hit the microphone. Um, they do have a

044small uh or presentation, some designs that they do want to show you. >> There you go. Hi, I'm dear Jahula Handanda Carara and I'm serving as president of Winchester Housing Partners. How it came about was um when we built the Susan MB Perry Senior Housing, we started in 2000. We cut the ribbon in ' 08 and Larry Hannifan who's on our he's president of Susan MD Perry. He is vice president of Winchester Housing Partners. Um we sat in our meetings and said if there's another project to do, we know there's so many people waiting to get into affordable housing. So Susan MB Perry is a HUD 202. So it's a lowincome senior project, 20 units. So shortly after we learned the bachelor school was in an RFP with the board of selectmen and working with

045Jocelyn who is the um our director of Lichfield County Center for Housing Opportunity. Um she holds our hand through this whole thing as our consultant. Um, but she was actually all over northwestern Connecticut guiding all of our communities to write their affordable housing plans. So, Joselyn guided us into this and um we found that we had to create a new 501c3 because the HUD 202 can only have one project. So, we created Winchester Housing Partners and we have five um members on the board, a group of laymen doing a project because we see the need. Um, also I'll introduce Jim McElvery is on the board of Winchester Housing Partners. And then also with us this evening is um David Berto who is the president of Housing Enterprises. and David worked with us back on the

046Perry project since 2000. So, we were very familiar with David. Um, and then now I have plans over here. We've been using Paul Cell now um as our architect. All the plans, as you know, has gone through PNZ. Um, and we're just waiting um to have the application with um to apply for the big funds which cannot be done till February. So, um, so everything's ready to roll as far as we know, but working with us is our partner, um, David McCarthy of Heritage Housing. And so I'm in inviting David McCarthy up, um, because he's going to do the presentation today. >> Wonderful. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak tonight about the um bachelor school project. Just a brief introduction for um those of you who are new to

047me. Um I am the president of Heritage Housing, Inc. We're a Connecticut based um housing development company based in Norwalk. Um, I've personally been involved with housing for 21 years at this point and um, I've worked on over 3,000 units of housing, mostly in Connecticut, but also in in several other states as well. Um, I can certainly give you an update about where the project is, but just to get straight to the heart of what we're here for is I I don't think this request is really about the merits of this project. It's not really about low-income housing. I don't think either. What it is really about is just the simplest path from point A to point B. Um, point A is the current $6 million appraised value as Mr. Harington mentioned earlier of the

048property and $6 million for a vacant school building that's been approved for 35 units of low-inccome housing is not a realistic valuation. Um point B is a valuation of what that building would be in the open market uh as zoned for 35 units of low-income housing. Um, and what we're proposing is a temporary agreement that sets the assessed value at um, what we're offering to pay for the property, which is what we think is is it worth in its current status. Um the alternative to this would be to sell the building as is um to us and for us to challenge that appraisal value through the revaluation uh process that happens annually um through I think a here would be board of adjustment appeals said or is that a different >> or yeah sorry Um,

049and I don't think that $6 million valuation would hold up. Um, it might get approved by the town, but it would not hold up in a in a court challenge. Um, and so we think that we're aligned here in that we kind of know where the end point of this is going to be one way or the other, and this is just the simplest, most straightforward path to get to that point. Um we are committing um in our request uh to maintaining the property um after its completion once it's been completely renovated and opened as housing. We are still committing to maintaining it as a adorum tax property. Um, and so that has not changed. And per the memo, our estimate of what that would pay to the city would be $42,500 a year. That's

050just an estimate based on uh a capitalized value of the rental streams as Mr. Harrington indicated. So, I will stop there about the request and if you want me to do any updates about the project, I'm happy to do that. can do some updates if you'd like. >> Sure. >> Some of this is old and some of this is new. Don't know the best way to do this. >> I will do this. >> I could hold it right here at the table. >> Okay. Um, this this you've probably seen before, this is our rendering of of what the building may look like. We're still working on the design details. Um, but it's an existing 1950s era school building. It's not historically designated. And therefore, one of the first things that we're looking to do is

051is change the aesthetics a bit um to make it look a little bit more like housing. So, just look like a school building that happens to be housing. >> I have to add that I'm glad it's not historically set because I'm the first class to go from kindergarten through sixth grade there. And I'm glad it's not historical. >> May I just jump in real quick? And and I'm not sure, but our viewers at home, can we just potentially the camera's right there. Um, if we can just hold it up so our viewers at home or viewers that come after the fact to watch this, this way they just see what we're talking about. >> And the folks here >> Well, and our folks here. Yeah, that's a good point, too. >> Can everybody see it

052if we stand back here? >> Yeah. >> Uh, so if you look at the monitor behind you in the corner, >> the monitor's giving you corner. >> Other corner. >> It's giving you the live view. >> Camera's over there. >> Camera's here. about the door. >> I think what we would ask what we'd ask you to do is show it to us >> and then to the >> the live studio audience and then the camera. Yeah. >> Thank you. All right. >> Um this gives you a layout of you know how how we're thinking about the apartments. Um it's going to be a mix of one and twobedroom apartments. There is one studio. Um pretty spacious apartments. Um they fit into the geometry of the building pretty well. And then in the this area over

053here, we would have a um a community space for the residents that would have a community room, a small fitness room, a laundry room, and a management office on site um to oversee the property. Um we would also, you know, maintain the original entrance to the building and then have a kind of main entrance to the side here where a little closer to a lot of the parking Um, this area behind the building is currently sort of a courtyard and we would uh maintain we continue to use that as a courtyard. Um, and then >> before you move on to the next, can you tell us how many one bedrooms, how many two bedrooms? >> Um, this layout is is still in process, so this may change. Um, but we are able to accommodate um

054>> 16 and 17 >> 17 one bedrooms um 19 two bedrooms and one studio and if you do the math you realize that's more than 35. Um, we are currently laying out 37 units in the building and we plan to go back to zoning um to request approval for the additional two units. Um, and then the secondbody. Um, and then lastly, um, the the building has sort of two wings. one is sort of higher and one is lower. Um the upper area up here this would be um would just be additional apartments. Um and just to give you a sense of where we are timelinewise um as Dearra indicated we are getting ready to apply for funding from the state in February. And so we're in the process of advancing these plans to construction level

055documents. Um once we apply, we'll have to wait and find out who've been awarded the funds, which usually is about a 3 to four month process. And then if we are awarded them, we would move at that point quickly to getting started with construction hopefully by the end of next year. >> Can you come up to the microphone pick up? Joselyn. I'm uh from Lynchville County Center for Housing Opportunity. We've been working with with Deerra on this from the beginning. Um as as some of you might recall. Um I just wanted to note we do have acquisition funding um for this project. So we do have that money in hand um as well as pre-development funding um an award from Department of Housing for this project. So, we do have that those funds in hand

056um and uh in our conversations with the commissioner um of department of housing is very excited about this project. Uh so we're uh you know we're pretty hopeful about that. Um so we do have those those funds we can acquire the property. Um uh I just wanted to note um in terms of what uh we had promised from the beginning um I I pulled out this document that we submitted back uh it's February 10th which was my birthday um 2023. Um this was a written response to questions following the request for proposals process. So it should be um also archived somewhere. Um but there were a lot of questions at the time um about how this group intended to pay taxes. Um and specifically uh on the second page of this it said the board

057of selectmen requested the following that ongoing tax payments on the property be determined by the standard assessment process. And we responded we agree with this. It is one of the frequently used methods in determining property taxes. But the standard assessment um for determining property value is the fair market value um for property assessment for rental income properties is the capitalization of net income based on the individual property parameters. So that's what we're talking about basically in this memo and that's what that that public act that was passed basically memorialized is that um many assessors were already doing it basically having the value of the property be the net net operating in based on the net operating income um that this is consistent with that um that that is what the group is intending to do

058once it's an operating property. Obviously you can't assess it on the operating income when there is no operating income for the period of time where it remains vacant um you know while we finish working on the architectural drawing. So uh for us again we don't feel like this is inconsistent. Um we are still very much intending to um you know pay based on net operating income. Uh just during this period of time where the property is vacant and we could agree to a certain you know cap on that number of of months or whatever. Um but uh that it not necessarily be uh what is on the books. Now I will say um uh Paul when we met with the assessor uh the town assessor did say he believed that um the assessment was based

059on replacing like if the school burned down and you needed to replace it with a school what would be the replacement cost? And obviously um you don't you're not going to do that that you're not going to build a new a brand new school building there. Um so um uh anyway, just uh what we're asking for again is that consideration for this time period while it's vacant um that we be able to pay uh the value that it currently has until we get a a co I got one question. Um, how much do you expect to get for rental incomes on the the apartments? That obviously depends on exactly what the rents are at the time it opens and those are not known now because they're set by a formula. But our current assumption is

060that um the gross income which is the just the revenue coming in from rents at the property will total about $400,000 a year. Um, >> are you asking what an individual would? >> Yeah, because I know what apartments are now in Winston. I'm I want to know what you guys are going to be charging. >> We're getting into the finer details of the tax assessment. >> What what will arrest >> the rents um will be set at a range of uh 50 to 60% of area median income. And what that means is um the area median income in this area is 114,200. for all of Lynchfield County. Um, and so the rents would be set at a formula that makes those affordable to people whose incomes is 50% to 60% of that amount. Um, >>

061so roughly 50. >> Yeah. So the just to give you the exact answer because I just I always like to >> doesn't have to be exact. I'm just looking roughly >> the rents um for a onebedroom at the the 50% level would be about 850 a month currently. >> Um and they would range up to the highest rent would be a twobedroom at 60% AMI which would be about 1,200 a month. So they're going to be in a tight range between those two numbers. >> Sure. >> Other questions? Yeah, I have a few. So, um, where you been for the last two years? >> Because we're here in the 11th hour. This is supposed to close by what's the closing date, Paul? >> So, by the 31st. We're We've had uh it's been two years

062since you've been here. And now we're looking at a request that is pretty significant for us to to uh to think about here. and and where you been? Why haven't we had this discussion a year ago? >> Well, I think that's a good question. Um, first of all, there are a lot of components to piecing together this financing that does take a very long time and I don't think there was an interest in coming to you with this request until this project was real. Right? it would be sort of foolish to ask for something upfront and then come back two years later and say, "Well, this project's not actually gonna happen." Um, >> I think it's I could almost make the argument opposite, though, right? As you're looking at all your financing and trying to

063put the numbers together to make sense, you would have wanted to know where you're going to be property tax- wise. And it feels >> I mean, there's a lot of questions I have and a lot to talk about in this proposal that you're here with tonight. Um, I wasn't in this room two and a half years ago when you were here. Um, in fact, the majority of us were not. Linda, you were and Todd was. Do you >> There was a public hearing, >> right? >> Um, were you at the public hearing? >> No. No. >> My question is, and I'm going to put this one out to to Linda and Todd first. If the proposal had been to pay property taxes of $4,700, do you think that that vote, which was 28 to 24,

064would have ever passed? >> I don't know if I did a little research on some of the other properties in town, and it I don't think it's out of out of line the amount that they're asking. It's It's 95% below >> the current assessed value. We could be off a little bit, but 95%. >> But this is a a HUD project. This is not this isn't a condo. >> Well, we're talking >> this is something different. It's not >> But we're talking about the value of the property. And I think the taxpayers >> the value of the property of that there were two two people that wanted that property. Two people >> that's that's not even the issue. The issue is what is the value of that property? Right? We sold it for 300 grand

065and there could be there'd be people sitting on this board right now that probably wouldn't have voted for that. But that beyond that to suggest that our assessment is 95% wrong seems almost impossible to me. And I don't and and I know the property. Sure, it's an old school and it has not been used that way in a number of years. But I'm going to suggest that the appraised value would have come in higher than 300,000. And I would ask you, why not get an appraisal? Why not? Why wouldn't you have paid for an appraisal in the last two years to bring to us and say, "Hey, here is an appraisal." >> Well, I think you're always going to have a hard time finding an appraisal that will provide you a comparable for what is

066a very unique structure here. So, this is not, you know, a retail power center with a Best Buy in it. This is a vacant school building that's zoned for 35 units of low-income housing. I don't know how many property sales you're going to find that are anyway comparable to that. And then you start to qu you start to think about from the appraisal side, well, what is what are you actually buying here? that if you're buying this property fair market value, the cost to renovate this building and make it housing far exceeds its value when the rental stream is $400,000 a year from those low-income housing units. >> There there's really no questioning that. I mean, the repair cost to make this into a viable res real estate use is millions of dollars. And so

067I think what we're trying to propose to you is what we think is a reasonable approximation of the fair market value. And like I said, the alternative of going through the court system and figuring out, you know, what a judge thinks is a reasonable valuation with appraisers bickering on each side. That that is another path, but I can't guarantee that you'd even get 300,000 value out of that. I guess the other could I just respond to what we've been doing? Um, you know, again, we are working with the all volunteer housing nonprofit um, uh, Deerra and and uh, the folks on the board. Um, we at Lichfield County Center, that's what we do is we work with all volunteer groups and try to help them bring the um, you know, tools that they need in

068order to pursue projects that they want to pursue in their communities. and they just they take a long time. We had to do a request for proposals for an architect, interview architects, hire an architect. The architect had to do all of the work that they needed to do to get ready for the planning and zoning commission meeting. We've um you know, we've done lots of again rounds of um you know, talking to funders. Um all of that background work has been happening over the last um two years. And again, there are so many moving pieces. I wish we would have had this conversation with you sooner as well. Um, but again, I'm just saying um, like you might have seen in other very complicated projects. We we brought, you know, David McCarthy on again because

069he and his team have a lot of experience making projects like this happen and making them successful. Um, and so, uh, you know, we we vetted him, we had him come on, we've been working with him on all the performers and everything. So, I just want to explain that we haven't been like asleep for the last two years. Um, we have been working on all the different moving pieces and we really wanted to have a sense including getting through the planning and zoning commission that we could have a viable project that that could work um before we, you know, got to the point where we are now to acquire it. >> What happens if you don't get your main funding? Well, obviously we're here because we think we will. Um, if we don't for some

070reason, then typically what you would do is reapply at that point. Um the reasons for rejection are usually that your project um doesn't score high enough in the criteria that's used, but usually the state works with you to figure out ways to make it more competitive for the for the following year. >> I think it may be important to let them know the funding you're going for, which is the 6% versus the which becomes Did you change that recently? >> Well, no, it's not six. It's nine or four. >> Nine or four. Apologies. >> But we It sounds like at this point because of new um criteria that this project is competitive potentially for both 9% and 4%. >> Yes. So uh and the 4% tax credits are are not competitive really, >> right? >>

071Um so it's just, you know, do you meet the criteria or not? And it's just a matter of timing. So, we think this project again is very, you know, very likely to be funded. >> I'd just like to say I'm kind of offended the way you came across. It's like you're threatening us with the lawsuit if we don't give you what you want. Um, I'm all for uh, you know, low-income housing, but you just soured me when you said that. Uh because that's a that's a very um you know Kirk kind of a statement that you're that you're we don't need you we don't need you to make a decision tonight because we're going to go to the board of assessment appeals and we're going to get it knocked down because we don't believe the

072building is worth $300,000 even. Okay. I happen to disagree with you and and I'm I'm taken aback by that. >> Well, I apologize for offending you. We definitely need need you. Um and uh you know we definitely again hope that you see the the you know we can start paying some taxes starting November 1st. Um and then we will work believe me we want to get this the CO as quickly as humanly possible. This group is paying a lot of money for that it you know for carrying costs and mowing the lawn and security and all the things. Um and uh you know we've been getting funding from community foundations to keep it going. Um but um you know we really want to see we we see every day how much we need this kind

073of housing for folks in the community and we want to get that CO as soon as humanly possible. So we will work our best to get it um so that we're paying that you know the net net um the net operating income value as quickly as as possible. And again, happy to set a cap on it um if you want. >> Mr. Mayor, if I may, Board, just a just a in a number that I saw when I reviewed it again today, just so the board's clear because I ended up sitting down doing the math. I know I got this earlier. Um if you go off of your idea of saying that the building's worth $300,000, you want to pay taxes on 300. So you take the assessed value which is then 70% which is

074roughly 210,000 which then puts at our current mill rate of 29.7 it actually puts the the taxes of $6,125.70. >> So I just if we're going to leave with roughly >> you know I'm a numbers guy. So, if you're >> I I want I want make sure that the board is is is clear that if we're going to say, and I don't know where they're going to go with, if they're going to say it's a $300,000, you know, value, 70% is 210. 210, you know, divided by it equals at our current mill rate of 29.17, it actually equals $6,125.70. I just as they deliberate and and go down a path I I don't like to shock anybody if they say okay 300 the actual taxes on that is actually just over six grand. I I

075just wanted to >> I see a lot of head shaking this way in terms of Paul did his math which is good but I wanted to just get the board a clearer picture because I did it earlier today when I go wait a minute that seems low and took two seconds to figure it out but I I wanted to >> it's a far cry from 103,000 that would be owed next July at the current appraisal >> or the replacement value of >> current current assessed value of the land or of the property. We could debate what it is. I mean, what's the raw land worth? It's a lot of acreage, you know, all that all that stuff. But to suggest that it's going to be a 95% reduction, I think is >> is an enormous

076amount. Todd, you >> just to make sure everyone understands, we're not we're not purchasing the whole site. Correct. So, most of the land will stay with the town and the barn. >> You're you're purchasing 13 acres if I remember. Something like that. >> Nine. I think it's nine, isn't it? Nine. I had 13.19 acres. I know we're in the middle of obviously the surveys and stuff, but all of the the charts and all of the original presentations 13.99 >> I think is >> so you know for us it's a balance between um granting this to you and answering to our taxpayers on why did you give them a 95% discount because PS just about everybody in town who owns property could come in and say to the to to the gentleman's point earlier, well, I

077paid this, why am I being assessed at this, right? So, that's a tough argument for us to bring to the taxpayers. Um, as I have been, as I recall, the vote was incredibly close. And Todd, I'll look to you on this. Um, you know, I'd ask you the question. I asked Lyndon, she talked about being a HUD thing, but given the the way the um public meetings went and the vote, if this had been a $6,120 tax um income as opposed to the assessed value, you know, what's your perspective on on where that vote would have gone? >> So, the town meeting uh was a contentious meeting that night. Um it was a 28 to 24 vote. Uh, and it was said in that meeting that you would pay taxes on the appraised value. Um,

078had you asked for the abatement back then, I'm not sure you would have had those four extra votes. Uh, so I do have some concern about that. I do have some concern about a precedent that would be set if we were to approve your request tonight where the more appropriate action for us may be to tell you to appear before the board of assessment appeals like every other business in town and every other resident who doesn't believe that their property is appraised correctly. Um so that does concern me that If we were to approve this for you, what kind of door would we open for the rest of the 11,000 residents in the town? Um, what drove you to choose that 4725 number as opposed to why not going to the 425 number? because there

079is no income for until we get a CO. Um, so again, you're talking about a local housing nonprofit with basically enough money to mow the lawn and keep the keep the, you know, try to keep the building secure and safe as much as we can. Um, plow the So, again, we're just trying to figure out how to make all of the the pieces work with the with the local housing nonprofit. Um, >> I think if I recall correctly, the 42,500 a year in property taxes backs into a valuation of somewhere like 1.5 or 1.8 million, something like that. Just >> 1.456 976 would give you $42,499.99. You must have considered the post renovation value of this property when you're done. Where do you put it? >> Well, again, the the number that Mr. Harrington just

080cited of about 1 and a half million is um about what we estimate the value of it as affordable housing to be. But that is, you know, based on our best guess right now. We I mean we could certainly get an appraisal. Again, my concern about going and getting an appraisal was that, you know, if we if we got the appraisal that the board might not like it. >> Well, I suppose, and I realize it's a difficult appraisal with comps, although I'm sure there's other uh vacant school buildings around the country that have been sold that could give you some comparable valuations. And I think you're right. I think we would probably look for more than one appraisal at that point. Um, but if you're going to make an argument to BAA, you may need

081the same stuff. So, um, I would consider that something you might want to do. Uh, but that's completely up to you. Obviously, it's just, you know, for me to come here and say, "Yeah, it's worth 300,000." um without any documentation, any backup, any comparables, anything at all to give us and and expect us to remove $100,000 in in tax debt that'll be due next July um at this at, you know, three weeks away from closing. All of these factors just don't don't lean in favor of doing this, frankly. I mean, if we've talked about this a year ago when you were going through the whole process, at least we would have felt like we were partners. Now I kind of feel ambushed with three weeks to go. >> Well, we definitely want the town to

082feel like we're partners, the Winchester Housing Partners name um as it says. So um you know, again, we we would like to to work with you on figuring out how to make this a community resource that we think it will be um when it opens. So from my office stance tomorrow morning 8 am which direction am I moving? I I guess two two questions. If there's no action taken tonight is the housing partners still going to move forward with the closing? I guess that's the first question. Um, >> I guess can I just add to that question? If there's no action tonight or if the action denies this abatement, are we closing on this property at the end of October? >> I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, Jocelyn. I I wasn't involved in the

083contract negotiations, but I I think there's a contract with you to purchase the property, right? So, yes, remove an app. Is it going to be easy? No, it will not be. >> And Paul, that first property tax bill would be due on in July. >> Yes. So, uh I spent some time uh before the weekend just so all the cards are on the table. Obviously, you've talked about the VAAA. The 25 grand list is it it's as of October, right? So you're going to the 25 grand list gets build July 1st of 26. So we spent a little bit of time prrated assessment reflecting land value of 13.19 acres. That was all the documentation that we had that you're purchasing 13.19 acres. Obviously can be adjusted if it's down to nine, but all the documentation

084that we had and sat with the assessors 13.19 acres. the the PR-rated assessment that you all would receive for that July 1st bill of 2026 would be three 3,581,38529 if the mill rate were to stay the same. The taxes due July 1st, 2026 and one penny. That's putting everything the way it is now, right? It's not going to BAA. It's none of that. But that's with the information that we presently have on the card. You know, every property in town has that card until some and the only information that we can do is go off of the current information that we have on the property. Very familiar with it obviously. So that's what our assessor's job is is she takes the information, puts it in the machine, and it obviously spits out the numbers. So

085that would be the obviously subject to a VA or any other you know lever you all want to pull but I think it's important to note that everything stays the same 3.5 million assessed value current mill rate which can be adjusted during a budget process obviously puts it at about a $104,000 in taxes. on that. You obviously mentioned things that, you know, can't be done. Again, I I I I go back to, you know, we have a closing that's, you know, supposed to happen by the end of the month, right? As far as the appraisal goes, um I think they're right in that appraisals, you know, hired by an individual um tend to this >> eloquently. >> Well, especially when there's not a lot of comps. >> When there's not a lot of comps, right?

086>> You know, and and to throw this crazy number out, right? We did a lot of work, you know, before we came to this meeting. you know, we sat with, you know, our junior assessor. Um, we sat with our our assessor. Um, we we made phone calls. You know, we came up roughly, let's say you get your CO in the 27 grand list. Now, again, this is balloons, but this is roughly what the town had thought the building would probably be worth about $2.8 million all. Now, you guys are coming in at 1.5 million. So you already see and you've seen BAA, you've seen, you know, trials and everything like that. One's here, one's here, and somewhere it's in the middle, right? So on the high side or on our side, we're probably roughly 2.8

087million. You guys are at 1.5 million, what's the number, you know, hard to determine, you know, that's why there's a BAA process. And if if if the resident or the business owner doesn't, you know, like the outcome of the BAA, there's a court proc what's I forgot the the the actual form that they fill out. So, there's a process that that goes into that obviously. So, full disclosure, we came up with on our side two, we're not assessors or I'm sorry, we're not appraisals, we are assessors. Um, we came up at $2.8 million. You guys came up at $1.5 million. You know, what was your basis? What was our basis? We used all sorts of information to get us to where we're at. Um, clearly there's an argument, yes, that it's definitely not worth $6

088million, right? We know that's not a school, right? The rebuilding of a school is going to be a lot different than rebuilding, you know, an apartment building. But again, we came up with a a rough idea of about 2.8 million, which would then net out if the mill rate stayed the same, $83,372.82 in taxes. that was all things stayed the way they are. But that's in this little bit of a moment right there saying that there's so many wild cards that come into play. Property values could take a massive hit. They could take a massive spike. Bill rates obviously change every year or so. That's just at this given time, >> given all of that, Paul, because there's a million plus dollar valuation difference between what you think it's going to be worth and what

089our people believe it's going to be worth afterwards. I can't in good conscious look at our taxpayers in town and say, "Yeah, we gave away $100,000. We don't really know what it's worth. They don't really know what it's worth, but eh, we just did it that way." So, um I for one can't support the abatement, not without more evidence. At least something that gives us something to work with. So, if we're going to vote on this tonight, which I'm fully prepared to do, and I don't know who else is, but um >> I would be voting against this change. I will also be voting against this. >> Has any attorney looked at this? >> Our attorney uh Mr. Nellian um is weighing in on it, but he's he's not an appraisal attorney. Um so there

090hasn't been an attorney that's that's weighed in on their uh tax payment. We just got this document last week, early last week, so no attorneys looked into it. It's going to take time. We if if if we want, we're going to have to potentially send out an appraisal on our on our side to to get a number. >> And and just to be clear, Linda, this is no way about the merits of the project. This is not just even determining that. This is simply saying we have this piece of property that's valued a certain amount of money. The taxpayers expect us to watch their money. And for us to give a 95% discount on the current tax bill and be able to look at the public, I don't feel is right. Now, if we had

091appraisals, we had evidence, that would be a completely different story. But on a on a, you know, maybe I I can't do that. >> Jocelyn, >> I just wanted to note that you're not getting any taxes right now on this property. Um, >> so again, we would love to start paying taxes um and being being a a partner and getting getting this project done and getting this kind of an an agreement can help us get the project done, you know, more quickly because we won't we won't be facing the headwinds that we would be with. I understand that you have a lot that goes into this project to make it work right between the planning stages and everything you've been through. But frankly, from sitting on this side of this table, I feel like you're

092here at the last minute. I feel like you're unprepared with any kind of evidence as to what the value of this property is and you're asking us to give 95% of the taxpayers money away without anything to work with. I don't think that you came here prepared. >> And on that note, I'd like to make a motion. that we deny the Winchester Housing Partners their tax abatement request. We have a motion. Do we have a second? >> Second discussion. Would an extension allowing you people to get an appraisal? >> I think we have to deal with the motion that's on the floor first. >> Well, no, no, this is the discussion. Okay. >> Discuss. Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh not a motion. Would that work? >> We can certainly come back with an appraisal. Um I

093I think my one concern is I I think I heard Mr. Marino saying wasn't even sure um one appraisal would be enough. So I maybe I could just ask the board to clarify what the ask exactly is. Would it just be us to bring back one appraisal? Would it be for the town to order an appraisal and for us to order an appraisal? I mean, I think we would need two appraisals certainly. Um because I would like to see what two professionals come in with and to I wouldn't be comfortable with just one. Um and to ask the town to pay for it. Again, this is your ask. We we made a deal two years ago that said this is what was going to happen. You were going to pay the taxes. We were going

094to sell the property on October 31st and we were going to have this project done. That was the deal we made two years ago. >> Sure. >> You want to change the deal. I think the two appraisals are incumbent upon you. >> Just to be clear, we're not changing the deal. The deal >> Well, let me let me just I think I I appreciate that perspective. Um, the one question would be let let's say we did agree to do both appraisals. I'm assuming what you want to see is the town directing the second appraisal, not us, right? Because if we just order two appraisals, you have the same issue of who's directing what the appraisers do. I mean, I think it would make sense for the town to select one of the appraisers and and

095and again, this is about protecting our our tax base, our tax payers, right? I have to look at them or meet them in the grocery store and around town. And when they ask me, how did you come to that decision? I want to be able to give them the right answer. And if I can say to them, we had two appraisals done. One appraiser we picked, one appraiser they picked. Uh we had it reviewed by our our staff and our attorneys and everybody thinks that this is the average number, then at least we had a number. >> And then the other option is we take the vote and you appear before BAA, which is also an option. >> Yep. And I think that's what you ought to do. Um and you know I'll I'll just

096say very quickly that the sort of two appraisers methodology it's very common in resolving situations where there's an uncertain value such as like if one partner in a business wants to buy out another partner in a business very common methodology >> I think it's a reasonable approach personally to resolving this similar kind of issue we Any other comments from the board? >> It seems to me then with the motion that's on the table, Mr. Mayor, that if we vote down the abatement tonight, they still have the option to close on the property and they still have the option to come back with their appraisals and present and ask, you know, and at that time the ask may be very different. You may look at the appraisals and say, "Okay, our ask was unreasonable. Now we

097need to bring in a number that's more reasonable." Perhaps we we'll see where they come in. >> Yep. >> But I think tonight, you know, we have the motion that we vote on and and if they want to come back, that's that'd be completely up to them. >> We have a sec. Uh motion, we have a second. All in favor? >> Five opposed. >> I'm abstaining 501. So come back with your appraisals or if you're before BA with the appraisals, I think those would be your next steps. >> Okay. Thank you. appreciate your time. >> Moving on to item B25-05, resolution for Winchester to join the Connecticut Municipal Development Authority. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And with uh with us tonight is our uh assistant town planner, Mr. Green. Uh he's going to join us

098up at the uh circle just in case there's additional questions. If you remember a couple months ago, uh we talked about the uh CMDA. It was a uh agency that was actually created by uh Governor Malloy. Um unfortunately, uh that administration did not put any funding into it. um Governor Lamont uh through this last budget process has actually put funding into it in a tune of roughly $90 million um that towns can then unlock uh as long as they became a member of the CMDA um before us tonight and why we waited until October was there was legislation that had to wait until October 1st that it became a much simpler process that in order to have the legislative body which is all of you to to vote on it. Uh we would need to

099have public input, which we have two public inputs at our board of selecting meeting. Um so it checks the box that you can take executive action on this because we did have uh one public input, but we're fortunate that we have two public inputs. Um David Corores is the executive director who was appointed uh to this agency by the governor actually came out and visited uh me and Mr. Green. uh thought Winstead is an absolute home run to be a part of the uh uh CMDA and that he felt that he could help unlock some of the funding uh that they were privy to of $90 million. This funding works in a few sources. One, if a developer comes in and needs to apply for financing, they have very favorable terms in terms of the

100financing and the interest rates. Two, they also can provide gap financing, meaning if a project is penciling out and they're roughly short a million dollars, the CMDA can come in and actually give that developer the million dollars to make the project uh a little bit uh uh more worthy for them to uh to uh uh take on. The one thing that I I I want to completely make uh sense of is that the town joining the CMDA, the town retains its local control, which is very very important. The CMDA does not come in and say you have to do this. The town always has the last right to say we're not doing that. This is just an option for us. And it's funny, one of the things that I do do is I do look

101at many towns agendas that are coming up. And there are many towns that are now taking action because it's simpler to join after October 1st that they all want a funding source. And what makes this really unique is that the big cities are excluded from joining where I've heard countless times where the big cities get all the money. They get all the money for development. the big cities are actually not allowed to join the CMDA. It's the smaller communities that the state is looking to help out um with this. So before you tonight is the resolution uh that I I there's no pride in ownership with this. This resolution was actually written by uh the CDMA. They gave us an example. We obviously tailored it a little bit obviously, you know, to what we need

102in our town, but this is a resolution allowing the town of Winchester to enter into the CMDA and then we can start to engage in conversations and hopefully unlock any financial uh benefits that may come down the road. I'm going to turn it over to Jeff quickly to see if he has anything to say and then open it up to the board uh with any questions. >> Thank you. Uh Paul hit most of the highlights. Uh I just put a couple bullet points together here for you. Uh this is a partnership like Paul mentioned they don't come in and tell us we have to do X Y and Z. Uh they make recommendations. Uh they would need to go through the normal process. So if we talk about revising some zoning regulation so on and

103so forth that would happen at P&Z. There would be public hearing all that public input. So nothing there would change. Uh we would be developing a targeted investment zone with them. So there's going to be a finite area uh where these potential dollars would go to. Uh it's really a in our case a main street plan. So main street and main street adjacent. So Willow Alm Center uh that kind of thing. But again that would be developed uh along with our partners at C CDMMA CMDA. Uh and as Paul mentioned, there's $90 million in funding to spur this smart growth. uh the town could apply for funds directly or developers could apply for as long as these target in investment zones are codified. Um it's also a loan program. So this isn't like one-time uh

104investments. These funds will get paid back and continue to roll uh not necessarily in town here but throughout the state and we'd be able to apply for more funds in the future. Uh there's two ways they uh CMDA looks at towns really. It's a transit oriented development and we tick a couple of those boxes although we don't have a train station that kind of thing. We do have uh dedicated bus routes here 926 927 that are at the college and the commuter lot. Uh we also have easy access on and off Route 8. So that ticks another box and the expansion of the greenway. Those are all positive things. But where we come in strong is our walkable downtown. As Paul said, Director Corores came to visit with us. Even just looking out the window

105from Paul's office, he was saying, "This is great. You guys got what we need here." Uh, so really this seems like a win-win situation. Uh, if you have any specific questions, we could try to answer them. But, uh, >> any downsides, gentlemen? >> I don't really see any. you know, I I thought about them and I I you know, before I bring anything to this board, I I obviously have to put the weight of it and say, "Okay, is there a downside?" Because, you know, this is me that's going to take it because I, you know, told you guys that this this is a great thing. And I talked to some of my colleagues down in Harford. They said, "No, Paul, you need to be a part of this. Where else are you going to

106go unlock $90 million?" Like, there is no downside. Because, you know, when it kind of look too good to be true. Like you your your little Spidey sense goes up and every one of the the big colleagues down down in Harford says, "No, this is meant for community like yours that can't compete with those big cities." And again, you guys have full control. If you don't like what CMDA is pitching, just say no and come up with a different idea, which is great. They're not going to come in here and tell you, hey, you know, 10 Bridge Street needs to be this and the building should be that, and if you don't like it, then you're not getting money. Okay. Well, we don't like it. And then we think of another option. >> Have you

107thought about projects that you think this might be used for? Uh, I I think we look at all of our I'll say legacy buildings, but those are all of our and and that terminology gets thrown around a little bit, but those are all of our older mill buildings where in in in in real world developers and at least the ones that have looked at them already, there's a problem because to convert those buildings, it's very very expensive. Um, and a lot of developers, you know, they do it for pure, you know, profitability that they're just not making profit by the time they have to remediate a building and do the build out of it. It just doesn't pencil out where a potential developer is going to make money. >> So, if somebody wanted to develop

108one of those buildings and they needed assistance with the remediation or what have you, this is what these funds could be used for. >> This is what the funds are used for. You know, I know Marino, you and I have had conversation in our office. You want to talk about municipal parking lots. This is another funding source that can give us a municipal parking lot. Um whether it be anywhere on our main street and these these are the avenues where we don't need to go to our taxpayers, but we go to the state of Connecticut who literally set aside $90 million to try and, you know, spur some activity down here on Main Street. >> Good. >> All right. With that, I'd like to make a motion that we allow our town manager to uh

109join the CMDA authority. >> Thank you, Troy. Is there a second? >> Just a correction on that. um is that you'll see now therefore be it resolved that the Winchester board of selectment hereby approves the town of Winchester joining the authority. It's not the town manager, it's the town of Winchester. >> Okay. >> Glad you got that. >> Yeah. >> Or if you would like to approve resolution 255. >> Even easier. >> And we will put that in the minutes and we will send that also off to the >> I'd like to approve resolution 255. >> Second. Thank you Troy. Thankful. Any other discussion on it? >> All in favor? >> 6 nothing. >> Thank you. Wish us much success because we're going to be on this first thing tomorrow. >> 25-33 police revolving funds.

110Town manager. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, um I've done this in another community before and uh a while back we established a police revolving account. police revolving account uh is established under Connecticut General Statute 7-148 C2K which permits the establishment and maintenance of a fund and accounts for financing of programs and activities a municipality is authorized to undertake and 7-148C4A which authorized municipalities to provide for protection of person and persons and property and the preservation of peace and good order. Both of those Connecticut general statutes allow municipalities to create a police revolving account. What exactly is a police revolving account? When I came here just over about a year and a half ago, I had asked that question to our chief of police and he had never heard of a police revolving account. I

111had asked, "So, when a private contractor um such as Eversource uh needs to hire a police officer, what exactly are we charging for that particular officer cruiser to be on the street?" got a lot of different answers at the time, but I can tell you at the time I had felt we were undercharging these private contractors that we were uh sending out um to, you know, make sure the streets are safe. So, we we sat down and and we looked at what other towns were charging and then we looked at all of the different items that we could charge for. First and foremost, we obviously need to charge for the officer, the sergeant, and it's usually time and a half. So, that's the first box of the amount of money that we're charging the contractor.

112Second one is that they're using a town asset, which is a cruiser. We then charge an additional $25 an hour for that cruiser to be parked on Main Street. Obviously, the gas and everything like that. There's a scheduling, so we then attack on an admin fee as well. So, it roughly means when you see one of our officers out on any of our streets with its lights on, we are charging the contractor anywhere from $150 to $210 an hour. Okay? That money then covers the f the salary of the officer, the FICA, the taxes, the seamers, any benefit that the officer gets. So, it's not a direct impact on the taxpayer. If you see an officer and there was a little dust up on social media and I said, "Wow, that just dusted up at

113an absolute perfect time because I was going to talk about it on Monday night's meeting." Those officers that are out there are 1,000% being covered by the contractor that hired them. Now, the interesting part, so beginning back on 71 of 24 to 6:30 of 25. So the entire fiscal year last year, we roughly brought in $73,57187 cents in revenue for those officers to be on the street. The expenses of those officers was roughly $50,000 $50,88.70 for a net profit of $22,763.17. That was all of last year. Fast forward to this year when our friends at Eversource decided that they were going to take on Main Street. We build out in July alone of 2025 $33,20.50. The expense on that, you're going to start to see because we we changed the fees. The expense on that

114was $11,995.90 for a rough or an exact profit of $21,2460. In August, as August there was a lot of activity obviously on our main street, we build out $95,631. The expense to have those officers out there, which was covered obviously by the revenue, was $57,22.15 for a net profit of $38,428.85. All in all, last fiscal year plus July and August, and we haven't done September yet because we're, you know, we have to build that out and figure all that out. We roughly have $82,2162 of money left in the police revolving account after we paid out all of the expenses of having that officer on that street. What we've done in other towns and what other towns do is we take that profit and we reinvest back into our police force. Meaning what's here uh what's

115before you tonight is the recommendation to purchase a new police cruiser in the amount of $64,387.30 that's fully outfitted plus an additional >> 1450.450 thank you uh Marine I don't know where my sheet oh here it is for uh $1,450 for the uh logo inking the decals that that actually go on the cruiser. So, this is a way of um charging our contractors to pay for uh capital items that would typically be funded in a budget, but because we've now created a police revolving account and we've actually looked at what we're billing the contractors, we have a small little mini profit center that then in return saves our taxpayers from having to fund these capital items. And in turn, we're just going to pay it out of our our police revolving account, which currently has

116a balance of just about $82,000. questions on police revolving and then we can >> I was going to say before I make the motion to buy the police cruiser I just wanted to say great job Paul because >> we've been losing money or not charging what we should have for a long time so great job >> are those fees built into the money that we have to pay for these repairs like for the police in the cruiser there's a a fee right >> yeah so so we charge $25 $5 an hour. >> So when we get an estimate for a job >> in the estimate, is there a char is that is there a charge for >> I think she's asking does the vendor inflate their >> fee their price for to cover those fees?

117>> Oh, uh, you know, that's a great question. Um, I I can tell you that we're right in line with what other towns, not just in this area, >> but in all of Connecticut, are roughly charging. Does a contractor probably inflate it? Yes, they probably do. But when we looked at it, when an officer perhaps is, you know, on the streets of Torington and Torington is charging $150, $160 an hour and we were maybe charging $70. we weren't even covering our costs, right? So, um it was it was a glaring glaring like we need to sit down and oh by the way the rates change every year because you know there are contracts that you know uh give increases to our officers rightfully so. So we just sat down a little before July 1 because

118you know the rates went into effect or the new officers uh salaries went or uh pay scales went to effect. We sat down a little before July and adjusted our rates based on the fact that our officers now make more an hour. So we're way ahead of it then I think we were in the past. Um there are many bids that are also done, Linda, where they actually have safety is an as a line item on the bid itself. So you actually know how much they're factoring in for police, road traffic, cones, barrels, all that stuff on on roads for that sort of stuff. So, >> and FYI, if it was the state police we had here, it would be twice as much as what they're charging for us. So, >> state police are in

119the upper vicinity of uh over $200 an hour. So, when you do see one of those uh state police out on a job, um I'll also note that this board did allow and and I think I I I mentioned that we're going several meetings back several months ago that we do have um a shared agreement with Torington. So, we are also uh fortunately making money off of Torington road jobs. If one of our officers goes up there um and happens to work a road job in Torington that the town of Winstead is billing that contractor. So, we have an ability to uh grow this account even more. I can happily say that over the eene years I was in my prior town. The police department never came before the board asking for any capital purchases.

120We funded all of the capital purchases out of the police revolving account. Can we get that here? Maybe. But I can tell you that we definitely benefited from a police revolving account down in my last town. A lot of jobs. There's an airport in that town, so there's a lot of things that go on. But, uh, we were fortunate that we had a lot of road jobs that funded new cruisers. Yeah. I mean, go as far as, you know, computer servers, anything you can possibly think of. And, oh, we're not draining this. But, you know, I was going in a different direction to uh Suck Grappo's thing is let's say we exhaust our um uh repair line in the police department. This is a great area to go and use some money for repairs as

121well because we're not draining the account. We're roughly going to have well over $20,000 in the account. We needed a set of four tires and we've exhausted the line. The other item that as we grow this account, which we also did in the prior town, is that I may look to add a revenue line into our budget to help offset some of those expenses in the police department for repairs and items like that to say, "Hey, police revolving. We're growing the account instead of asking the taxpayers to fund it. We're going to have these contractors fund some of our police uh activities and expenditure." So, this is all new. Um, not to me. It's all new to this town, but I am very, very happy and happy to report that. Um although everyone will be

122happy that Eversource is leaving Main Street. I'm going to be a little sad because I'm going to lose a little profit center, but we still have to bill out September, October, and November. I may have another $80,000 in three months. >> Don't worry, Tor's a mess. >> So, you and I have have l we've reviewed the fleet uh the rolling fleet several times. So, um >> hold on for a second. Well, Torington officers here under our agreement. >> Yep. >> Is the revolving fund funded the same way? >> Their revolving account was funded. So, if the Torington officer comes here, >> um there so it works both ways. We can't we can't have it that >> I I was just Okay, go ahead, Paul. >> Well, it's nice that we're funding it this way. Okay.

123I move that the board of selectment approve the purchase of a new police vehicle using the police revolving fund once the account receivables have been received. >> Second discussion >> discussion >> um and I and I don't want to step on your motion and and I should have pointed this out. Um I am asking and why the motion is written the way it was is that the receivables and and they're good receivables. It is uh the uh the company Eversource um we just build out roughly $95,000 in invoices. We haven't received all of it. I'm saying once the cash is in hand that then we'll go and purchase >> cash enough to to cover this >> to cover that. Exactly. I don't I don't want to even >> Is this car being held for us?

124>> That car is being held. Yep. I can with your motion I can put a PO in. I don't have I will take delivery once the cash is in hand and POS are fine, but once I have cash, I don't even want to go anywhere near the general fund. I want to wait until the contractors pay their bill and we write a check to McGovern and it's we have a new >> Yeah. And as I understand it, too, this is another part of that canceled fleet. So, we're actually saving money on on this car as well. So, >> if you haven't had an opportunity to to see our new Ford Explorer that's in our fleet, it is an absolute beautiful vehicle. Um, when you open up the back and you pop the the trunk open,

125the board that has all of the mechanisms that turn the lights on and everything like that, it's professionally done. Um, if you look at some of our older cruisers, wires are everywhere and they're it's it's a nest to say the least. >> I think Mr. Marina, you actually had an opportunity. >> I spent some time in that. I did. Yes. seat. >> Not not in the back seat. Thank you. >> We really need to clarify that. Thank you. >> I saw you there. >> I was in the front. >> Any other discussion? >> No. Thank you. >> All in favor? >> Thank you. >> Unanimous. [Music] >> Moving on to item D 25-34. cancellation of the November town meeting scheduled for November 3rd. >> So, as you know, we did set a town meeting at

126our last board selectment meeting. I am having a little bit of uh some issues getting contracts to be signed. Um, one of our buyers said he wasn't ready to act yet and he still needs to uh wait on it a little bit. He thinks he may have a decision in December. The other uh uh property or other parcel. That gentleman uh has not signed his contract yet. So, it's hard to go to a town meeting if I don't have contracts. And considering one of the uh parcel uh potential buyers is saying he won't be ready until December, um I'm asking that we cancel the November 3rd town meeting that was scheduled. >> I presume we're continuing to market these properties now. >> Oh, yes. Okay. >> Yes. >> I move that the board of selectment

127cancel the town meeting that was scheduled for November 3rd, 2025. Second. >> Any discussion? All in favor? >> Thank you. >> 50 with 25-35 proposed 2425 year end line item transfers as recommended by the director of finance. So I I do believe uh I confidently but I'm 99.9% I know we did a massive transfer at the last uh board of selectment meeting. Um we did say there may be one. We did find that one. Uh this transfer addresses an expense that was recorded recorded to the police department uh a after the prior September 5th uh meeting. Um so this is to close out the police department. Um, we're taking $4,500 from uh gas and diesel from the I believe it was public works >> highways, excuse me, and then putting it into the police department

128for $4,500. You'll note that this request is being submitted on the old budget form because we're going to use the new budget form uh moving forward for this fiscal year. >> You get the last number. >> I move that the board of selectment approve the following line item. Appropriation transfer of $4,500 from Highways, Gas and Diesels 1-311-820--0000 to police Gas and Diesel Account 1-210-820-0000 in the amount of $4500. Second. We have a motion. We have a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, all in favor? Unanimous. Thank you. 25-36 refunds as recommended by the collector of revenues. >> As you see, the amount of $3,51.99, majority of them are uh uh corrections with two overpayments. >> I move the board of select and authorize the refunds recommended by the collector of revenue in the amount of $3,51.99.

129>> Second. We have a motion. We have a second. Any discussion? Seeing no discussion, all in favor? Unanimous. Moving on to item 11, citizens comments. The board of selectman welcomes public comments. Speakers be limited to three minutes. May speak once. Please give your name. Who would like to speak? Anyone? Uh, just make sure you turn on the microphone. Hi, Matt Smith, 662 East Wakefield Boulevard. I almost don't know where to begin here. Uh, but my background, you'd have to know a little bit about that. Uh, I am a real estate appraiser, an expert in real estate. I appraise and value low housing properties, all types of properties. My company represents the metropolitan area being New Jersey, Connecticut, and New York. Uh I'm one of the appraisers that would be an MAI. We have a few

130uh in the state. We have about 20 25. We're lucky enough on Highland Lake to have five of them. Um one of them is the chair of the Connecticut board overseeing ethics there. I oversee all the ethics in New York State as a chair for a long time. So we do take our our business serious. Uh tonight I was stunned. I cannot believe with a real estate contract almost to the point of closing it that uh they're coming forward to look for an extension. And I was glad to see what you did tonight. I think that was good work by the board. Um I think some of the comments made tonight uh I I did not find forthcoming and that that was a little annoying to me. Uh I know Paul that you looked Mr.

131that you look with the assessor's department to see the value that they were going to come up with in the future. Well, the problem is that a lot of um assessing offices would not know how to deal with the value of a property like this because it's unique. The other hat that I wear is I'm also an assessor and I do mass valuations of towns. So I have both expertise of doing them on one side and on the other. Uh the valuation of 40 units in this area would most likely yield a value of between 3 million and probably $4 million. Rough numbers for for the amount of 38 or 40 units. Um of course there's a lot of things that go into that and a lot of difficult pieces that you have to put

132on the pie. So put in the pie here. Um, so you have your net operating income. Uh, they mentioned $400,000. I think I, you know, it was a very tough breakdown because it looks like we went to 17 to 19 and then two units, which in my account was 38, not 37. But if you use round numbers and you picked a,000 times 40 times 12, that's $480,000 on an annual basis. Now then you'd have to take expenses from that to get the net income if they were talking about a capitalization rate. Well, when you do that, maybe 60% would be a good number. You get down to about $192,000. A cap rate on something like this would be very conservative. I know what I'm throwing at a lot of fast words, but because the the

133rents are low and they're secured and in demand, that reduces your cap rate. So just looking at quick numbers like that, you'd be looking at a value of $3,840,000 or about 4 $4 million. Um, with regards to a price per unit, 40 units, h 100,000 a unit for something like this, $4 million. So it's sort of screaming out in that area. Uh, very concerned when it was said it would be difficult to do an appraisal like this. I caution the c the town that in doing something like this you have to get a state certified appraiser that's the bottom level the minimum that you could request and then from there you're going to look for an MI as I said there's few of them uh in the state about 2025 you can get them nationally

134national person come and do this as well they'll end up with a number it should be in that ballpark I was wondering if the board knew how much money or if they did behind me how much money they're putting into renovating this property. >> You're start to wrap it up here over time. >> Okay, wrapping it up. Um, let's see. In my humble opinion, I have one other concern I have to mention for the town. It seems like this has been two years and you have the people back here that have now come forward for this this change with the contract. I hope the contract that was put forward protects the town because in that contract it better hold you harmless for lead paint as other things and to do that kind of reservation renovations

135on this type of building will be in the millions of dollars. So your costs are also going to exceed that $4 million. So any way you look at this this property is worth those numbers. the assessment should be paid and fiscally you want the town to receive those dollars and I think any prudent developer you know to reduce the taxes that the town would receive of about $100,000 110,000 per year over a 2-year period 210,000 whatever you want to call it versus what they were offering of $6,000 or $12,000 is not fair to the town to lose that $200,000. But anyway, that's my my my concerns. I really think that the board should look into this project. Um, just from what I've seen tonight, I am I am scared. I certainly don't want to see

136the town end up in some sort of lawsuit or something or have a situation where, you know, we bring nice families into a building that has lead paint or asbestous issues. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak? on Chris Street Wednesday. >> Uh just to start, I'm going to be real quick because I had about an hour and a half's worth of stuff here and I want to get it down to about a minute now. There's a lot of stuff I was going to say has already been said. So, I want to thank the board for what I think to be the correct vote. I'm an allaffiliated voter in the town and I think you guys made a great decision. One of the things that I want to know

137is, you know, for example, someone stated that it was more money to build, that it was more money to renovate a school than apartments. And I think he hit the nail on the head. The apartments have to be up the code. The whole place has to be up to code. Um, and I think that's going to be a lot more money than than just uh a school. I don't think that, you know, you have just school rooms. We're talking about apartments with fire alarm systems, everything. I I think it's just a lot more money. And the other thing is I think that to to to state something obvious, um I think that at least the attorneys from the town should be involved at some point because I think this is going to go that way.

138So, I think that you guys should start thinking about not only looking at the original contract, but also looking at the intent of the minutes of the meetings to find out exactly what the intent was to go into the contract to make sure it's correct. You know what I mean? Just to cover yourselves. And the only other thing I have is uh this is from a a web page. All the other stuff that I had was from the newspapers and it didn't look good. And but this is from the LCC. This is their own website. And I like to read one paragraph and I'll stop. Uh the LCC collaborated with volunteers to establish the Winchester Housing Partners, a new nonprofit designed to response to the to respond to these kind of opportunities in the community.

139They helped the new group hire experienced project teams to ensure the proposal was viable. TheyN applied for and received congressionally directed spending to fund the acquisition of the building. So in other words, public money paid for by us. So so far everything that they have not done is all funded by us. And I took pictures of the place yesterday. It looks the same as it did two years ago, 10 years ago. You could put ch school children back in there tomorrow. Uh so they helped apply for the permitting for the conversion and they provided seed money to to accomplish these initial steps in the process and that's it. That's that's all it says. This is a significant undertaking that a small new nonprofit does not normally have the capacity for and I think that the

140testimony today shows that they're a small nonprofit and I think on a shoestring. That's my own opinion but it doesn't look good. That's all I have. >> Thank you sir. >> Thank you. But I'd also like to know how much money is going to be taken from renovation because I don't think any money from what I can see the funding I don't think it's there. I don't think they have money for funding and that's why they're here trying to get out of taxes because there's not enough money to go around plus revenue. Hi, Twin Press Street, Winstead, Connecticut. Paul, this one's for you. on your new website, please put the times of the meeting. Louisa told me she looked at the website and the times weren't there. That's what I'm going to ask you to

141do. Second thing I want you to do for us is I want you to speak to Julie and get some grants going for our schools because Jay has money at the state level but the grants have to be written. So if you would do that for us I would be so appreciative. Uh the third thing >> I know I have >> uh Kim, you have to address the board, not the ground. >> I'm sorry. I wanted to let this gentleman know >> my house is a,250 square foot house. It's worth $245,000. I have less than an acre. If I wanted to buy an acre of land here in Winchester, I couldn't do it for less than what, 20,000 an acre, more or less, depending on where it is. Whoever made this deal was not a

142friend of the town of Winchester, to give away that property for $300,000. And the taxes are not going to pay for more than three children going to school. That means every town citizen's taxes are going to go up when the children go to school. Was that discussed? Now, I know the vote was very low and I know one of the reasons was because a lot of people didn't know to get that little yellow ticket. Normally, we just get up and speak, but you had to have a little yellow for that vote that night. What kind of shenanigans were that? This is a bad deal for our town. I do not think they should get a tax abatement. I think they should pay full value for that property. And I have nothing against lowincome housing. Although

143I will say we're what 10,000 people. You know the percentage of our lowincome housing is 9.35. Town of Lichfields is 3%. We have a lot of lowincome housing. Perhaps we need more. But perhaps we also need to look at the town and the taxes that we pay. me as a retired person wanting to keep my house, my little $249,000 value house, 1,250 square ft on less than an acre. That's all I have to say. >> Thank you. Does anyone else Frank did you speak? Frank Oliver, 108 Short Drive. Uh, this is for Mr. Green. Uh, this agreement with the state sounds too good to be true. I've worked in city government for 31 years and dealing with the state of the feds. Let me put it another way. Uh, my cousin's a selectman in Shbury,

144Massachusetts. The town just voted that down. The hub where the the towns get grant money because they have a transportation hub in town. which is what Mr. Green mentioned. >> I mentioned that transit oriented development is one of the goals. It wouldn't really be the goal here because we don't have that. >> That's what I also have never dealt >> in any negotiation with the state or the feds in New York. >> It always been after the agreement is signed >> and you think you got what you have within a month you find out you don't have exactly what you agreed they agreed to. So, good luck in trying to get everything you you want. It's going to be a fight. That's all I'm saying. Thank you. >> Anyone else wish to speak? >> 181

145Volunt Road. There there's a couple of points I wanted to ask the uh board and maybe Paul knows. Do we have an actual purchase contract for this property or we do we have a purchase with option to buy? >> Do you Mr. Mayor? We we have two documents that were signed back in 2023. We have a first document is titled >> I want to get the exact first title is actually just a lease >> um which talks about and then there's a second document that was signed that is the option to purchase >> the okay so we don't really have a full-fledged >> purchase contract for this property we have a purchase for the option to buy we have nothing stating the term terms of the sale of this property. That's where I'm getting at.

146That's what I'm getting at. >> So, that's what the lawyers are working on right now. They their side obviously has an attorney. I for forgot the individual name. >> So, now we're at a point where we're coming here and we're asking for something that change or whatever. So, this now opens up this contract. And that's a fact for anybody. I'm in real estate. It's not going to tell you. I'm representing a seller and the buyer comes in and or changes something at the last second. Appraisal doesn't come in correctly. Maybe it's lower, which is good for the buyer. And then the seller can either, you know, get their own appraisal or not, depending on how far off it is. And vice versa. If it comes in high, the buyer can say, "Oh, no. I'm not

147paying that. We're walking away." So those kind of things have to be in the contract also. But my point is we have now have a a renegotiable contract on this table for you folks to anticipate reviewing and putting your two cents in because you've heard a lot from us today. And in their proposal, they do state that they're going to have an expenditure of approximately $18 million to develop for development costs. And this money will be raised by state, federal, and private funders. But my other question and concern is how are they going for a state federal private funding and going to in front of those boards without some type of appraisal because I'm sure they're not going to give out $18 million and say, "Well, what is this valued at?" Am I right or

148am I wrong? Seriously. And it's like you said, Mr. Marino, that you know, why are you just coming here now? But I was at that meeting when this fiasco happened and it was a fiasco. The other thing is they're already um stating in their proposal that we're getting to keep some land. Well, that was the agreement that they would get the building with an x amount of land and the remaining would be for us. Now, I don't remember it being designated as a open space, land trust, whatever, but it's written in here that way, so that's disturbing, but I don't know where that's coming from because that has not been determined. Um, as far as the building being what it is, uh, it's a building, like I stated earlier, no matter what its purpose was

149in the past, it's still a piece of real estate and has a value. And we need to have a an a certain type of value and a real value. And we never got that because at that meeting that I went to on that night that this was approved, I asked several times to that town manager um Josh Kelly, what is the true value? Because he never disclosed it to us to the town. We had no idea. And at the last 11th hour, he came out with a million two and then stated that was a two-year-old appraisal, but they were willing to throw this away for $300,000 that night. And they did. But now, like I said, we do have an open contract now with these folks, the buyer and us, the seller. And these are

150things that are going to have to be addressed. And and as far as um the appraisal, Mr. Smith, he made a good point now that we have an open contract to re to renegotiate because that's what we're at. No matter how you want to look at it, it's important what he said about having a hold harmless to protect us because after what I heard about threatening, you know, if we don't give them their abatement, you know, we're going to go to court and and that was thrown out there twice as I sat here. And I find that pretty disturbing and quite shocking, very shocking because, you know, it is our property and we want to be fair all the way around and we want something responsible up there and um, you know, we have a

151lot of other properties coming down the pike and we want everything just to be handled responsibly and fairly. You're >> over. Okay. >> Does anyone else wish to speak? Moving on to item 12, executive session. Discuss discussions regarding the selection of a site or the lease, sale, or purchase of real estate through Connecticut General Statue 1-26D. Can I have a motion to go to executive session or move taking the town manager? >> All in favor? Who >> motion to second? I think Paul second and it is 910 I'm Have a safe. Good evening. We're back from executive session at 9:33 p.m. We have no action to take. Moving on to item 13, selectments comments and reports. uh said this last meeting. I'll say it one more time. Trunk or treat is coming up for the

152uh parks and recreations department. They are looking for donations of candy. If anybody would like to purchase candy, drop it off. Terry Hall will accept it or >> Yeah. Parks and Rex. Do not leave it at Mr. Harrington's office. >> Um but it should be a it's looking like it's going to turn out to be a really good event this year. We have a lot of lot of participants signed up. If uh myself, Terry, or Tanya is not there, there is a box just outside the parks and rec director's office that will receive that. So, there's a box up there. Can't miss it. >> Other comments? >> Uh yes, actually. Uh I think maybe sometime on the agenda we should change where the selectman reports are. I think it needs to be further up. I

153know there's still people here, but normally there's nobody in the room, especially when we come back from executive session. So I think some of the reports uh would be more important then especially since like the two water tanks are now up and operational here in town especially after the fire in Torington. Be nice to know that those are up and working so that most people will know. I've actually had uh uh ambulance personnel from the Northfor ambulance wanted me to thank the the police department for helping on a mutual call. They actually helped carry the patient out of the building which I he was just absolutely ecstatic and he says no no no other police department has ever done that with them before. Um and the other thing the a couple other things the the

154fire department if you saw had the self-contained breathing apparatus where they saved the two towns uh $550,000 by getting grants uh from the FEMA department. So that was a big plus and thank you to those chiefs for for doing that. But I I think the important thing is is we do have a lot of old mill buildings here in town and like I said before with that fire that happened down there is the potential of it happening here too. So I was talking to the chief. We got to make sure we can put out enough water. They were doing 3500 gallons a minute. It was robbing water from everywhere in town. Even the tanks they had to slow that process down because they couldn't keep up with the water supply. And that's a big thing.

155So, I think it's pretty important that we hit um some of those things. Like I say, the especially the reports up a little earlier on our agenda, the comments, the candy and all that. That's nice. But that at the but I think the com the uh reports would be nice moved up, especially when there's people here. So, other comments, >> just a reminder, uh this coming Wednesday night from 5 to 7, Little Red Barn, call it the nationwide launch of our EDC video. Uh tickets are available through the town website >> through EDC and they are they are uh we we're just trying to get a count uh for uh food, stuff like that. So they're free of charge to come out, but we do want to get a count of who's coming. Um it's

156available on our town website. Um click on it, you'll get sent to a >> Eventbrite, not Everbridge to just register yourself. Literally takes 10 seconds. We just want to know who's coming. Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. All in favor. >> Good night. >> Thanks everybody. >> So let me roll. >> Thanks Jeff. See you in the morning. >> I wanted to say I'm sorry you wasn't I was not intending to threaten to make that threatening. I was just saying that's how property owners address the delivery was a little >> I'm sorry. >> I I thank you guys for considering our suggestion. I did think your suggestion was very good planning to follow up on that. >> I think that's the fair >> comes in understood. >> Yep. something about open door policy around so just

157um call Terry set an appointment and let's