Board of Selectmen - September 2, 2025 Regular Meeting

001through life. [Music] >> Do you know who he is? >> Very nonrespons. nonresponsive. >> Good evening. Today is Tuesday, September the 2nd, 2025. It's 700 p.m. I'd like to call the regular board of sins meeting to order. >> Linda Guo, >> Troy Lamir, >> Paul Marino, Paul Harrington, >> Todd Archalashi, >> Glenn Oius, >> William Hester, >> Andy Perez, >> William Poso. Please join me for the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Item number three, agenda review. Does anyone have anything? Seeing nothing, moving on to item four, the approval of the minutes of our special meeting on August 18th. >> So moved. >> Second. >>

002We have a motion. We have a second. Any discussion? Seeing no discussion. All in favor? Unanimous. Moving on to item five, citizens comments. The board of sleen welcomes public comments. Speakers be limited to three minutes and may speak once. Seeing no citizens comments, item number six, town manager report. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and good evening, board. First and foremost, I want to start off by saying if you have not heard all of the swim advisories that did go up uh on Friday afternoon have been lifted. The uh uh test came back from a water sampling on Friday uh earlier this morning and the levels were were much much lower. I I can't tell you what the levels are because we still haven't received the official report from either the Tuesday sampling or the Friday sampling.

003But as soon as I have it, I will share with the board. But uh if anyone's watching or anyone here, the advisories that went up uh uh early Friday afternoon have all been lifted as of this morning. Moving on, uh I did get a chance to go to the EDC uh board meeting tonight and I got to see their promotional video of Winstead and I think uh Hester was uh in that meeting as well. Uh they do plan with uh with your permission, I know you gave it to me last meeting, but they do plan on coming to our September 15th meeting to showcase that video. Simply wow. >> Yes. >> I'll leave it at that. Um they are looking for another meeting uh also on October 8th where they want to showcase the video

004over at Little Red Barn as well. Um so two two uh uh revealings of the video. One next week uh for for this board obviously which will be a public meeting as well and then again on October 8th. But I was absolutely blown away by the video quality, the speakers, everything. Um I'm going to wait for two weeks and let you all just see for it yourself. Moving on. A quick update on the Eversource project. They continue to make solid progress. Uh helped uh obviously with the great stretch of weather we've had pretty much all summer long. As of the today, they have about 700 ft left to complete before reconnecting the 39 individual services. Um they expect that they will start connecting the services uh by the end of this week. Um so pretty

005exciting that you know they they got about a month, month and a half left and they'll be out of here. uh and service connections to the new line will actually begin at the end of this week. On some good news also with Eversource, Friends of Main Street will be receiving a $2,500 grant. Uh they the town applied for several weeks ago. If you remember, we had two trees that were taken down by the Connecticut DOT. We reached out to Eversource. They do allow up to $10,000. We did apply for $10,000. Unfortunately or fortunately, because we did get some money, Eversource is coming over with a $2,500 grant to our friends over at Friends of Main Street, which will help us get brand new trees and get them planted. I really want to get that uh

006grant awarded and and and spent because if you're a tree guy, uh it's good to always plant trees in the fall so they have time to root themselves. So, I got a small window to get these trees planted uh you know, this fall. So, um, if I could, I'd love to see if I can get them done before, uh, fall foliage fest, but that's a that's a goal of mine, and we'll see if we can get it done. Moving on, I know I sent the board an email, but this is obviously for public as well. The Bridge Street intersection redesign publicformational session will be held on September 11th in this room at 5:00 p.m. The goal of this is to walk the residents through the background of the project, explain why we're undertaking the changes,

007and share what we hope to accomplish. We'll be there to listen listen, gather input from the community and feedback which will help shape the final design and ensure we're meeting the local needs as best as we can. So again, I've put it up on our social media channels, also on our website, but for anyone watching or watching later on, September 11th at 5:00 p.m. in this room, we're going to talk about the Bridgeport Bridgeport the Bridge Street redesign uh project and uh we look for as much, you know, public input as we possibly can. Safe streets for all committee. The town continues to seek volunteers for the safe street for all committee. This round table will bring together residents from diverse backgrounds along with town staff from several departments to work collaboratively with a consulting

008firm on drafting Winchester's vision zero action plan. If you're interested in making our safe safe streets for all, please, you know, contact my office and we'll get you signed up for it. A little other things going on, RFPs and RFQS. We do have three that are currently out on the town's website. First one being the municipal IT services. It's closing on September 15th. That contract that they expires October 1st. Uh auction for town owned vehicles and equipment closing on September 18th. We have some uh uh items that we no longer need. And if you're interested in it, go take a look at the town's website. And last but not least, uh for a committee that has worked tirelessly, we have the RFQ for the Sue Gman Greenway segments three and four engineering, which is closing

009October 2nd. I'll take this uh time once again to just absolutely thank the members that are involved with the Sue Gman committee and the tireless work that they put in each and every week. We seem to meet every other week and every every two weeks the meetings are jam-packed and and and there's a lot of great discussion. More on that later on, but again publicly I want to thank the committee for, you know, all that they've done and and it's really, as Perez says, it's the shovel ready committee and it's it's it's moving along. So, uh, Japanese notweed, uh, invasive species grant. The town submitted a $42,000 funding application to Deep's Trees for, uh, communities grant program. If awarded, this grant will allow us to, uh, contract a licensed professional firm for two years of

010treatment of the Japanese knotweed, an invasive species that threatens local ecosystems, and tree cover in Winchester. Importantly, this grant requires no match from the town. Um, so we we're we're very hopeful that we get this $42,000 grant and we can treat this uh Japanese knotweed resident assistance fund grant application. We are preparing the application for once again to receive funds from uh the residents assistance fund. This funds allows us to cover items that aren't covered by the state or federal programs. You don't need to watch the news uh all the time, but note some of the state and federal programs have been having some slashing in funding. We do have some resident residents that are out there that need assistance and this allows us to at least help a little bit. It's not the end

011all beall answer, but it does give us an opportunity to to to to help some of our neighbors. Moving on, the Marshall sign went up on the building um and the office phone blew up. Are they opening this week? Um they are not, but they do plan on opening sometime middle of October to the end of October if all things go. but they have made a commitment that they will be open long before anyone starts their holiday shopping. So, look for the grand opening. We'll obviously advertise it somewhere between the middle to the end of October. Marshalls will be opening. And last but not least, as a father with two young kids, I want to remind everybody, school's back in session. Please drive a little bit slower, especially the first few weeks. Have a little

012extra patience. People are still learning routines. There's new kids getting on buses, off buses. So, as a dad, I I urge you to just take a little bit more time as everybody settles into the new routines of everybody back to school. Look for kids walking to and from school. Um, with that, I'll open it up to the board for any questions they may have. >> More questions. I just have a question. Is there a targeted area uh for this notweed treatment grant that you're trying to get? Is there a specific area we're trying to eradicate it? >> I I could actually answer that. I was just actually at the conference conservation commission meeting. I think there's like 163 locations. There's quite a bit. >> There's quite a bit. The town the town garage is a

013huge spot for it. >> They're going to try to get >> Well, I know. I'm familiar with how nasty it is. It's everywhere in town. So, we went out for, you know, these 162 163 locations. >> 163 locations. president, you know, bringing in some some experts to say you're going to need, you know, roughly $42,000 in funding to treat this for two years. So, um, it's all over. I I don't think we left the stone unturned if we're Japanese. Not >> I I know that they talked about it that it's this is only for like the sides of the roads. This is not for private property. >> Not for private property. Oh, yes. Yeah. Make that a lot of spots. >> Well, it's along the river in some spots. And what that does is what

014you know will crowd out all the other plants that are there which will eventually affect all the aquatic life that's that's down there. >> So they got to wait till the flower stage is gone and then spray it and then we can mow it and hopefully it kills it. >> Hopefully >> it's tough to kill. >> I went to the class. My town's doing the same thing. Luckily for me, North Fork has very little spots. Um it's going to be a local thing we're going to take care of. Um, but the the bigger problem we have is the hogweed. It's not the knotweed. The other one is the worst one that we have that's everywhere. And I don't know how they're going to handle that one. >> Um, first time I've heard hogweed, so I'm

015not really going to comment much on it, but let me look into it. And >> yeah, it was all in the class. We all most >> and we have it here in this town. Hog. >> Oh, you got it everywhere. It's all over all the piles of dirt. Mine, too. >> Okay. >> It's everywhere. >> So, I don't know what they're going to do there, but >> other questions. >> I see they're doing a lot of work at the Domino's location. Any word when that's opening? >> Uh, they hope to open sometime before the end of the year, and you're 100% right. I drive by there obviously twice a day and am blown away by the amount of work that they're doing. In fact, uh, our >> the hood's finally inside. >> And the hood's

016finally inside. >> That was out front for how long? >> About two weeks. I I I joke with with Mr. Green. I go, "Mr. Green, have you >> No, I I haven't seen I go, "How could you miss this big steel thing?" Um, but they uh they uh they hope to open that by the end of the year. And I will say that there is uh heavy interest in a vacant building that's been on Main Street for quite some time. May have housed a gas station at one time. Um, we're bringing in the new owner, uh, in the notsodistant future to talk about his plans of opening something there. Some good excitement. Um, and I'm excited because >> Paul, two things on the road. Um, are they going to pave right after they're done? >>

017Ever you're talking? Well, as you know, >> gutter to gutter, as far as I'm understand, >> not gutter to gutter, unfortunately, because it's a state road. We're still fighting that out with Eversource and the state of Connecticut because that road was perfect. I I can't say that. I've gotten a firm commitment that we're going to gutter gutter. But, you know, they everything's got to compact and then they're going to come back, mill the road, and then pave it. I'm just >> We'll see that next year in November. >> Yeah, we won't see that this year. So, that's not good. >> Yeah, we're not going to see that this year. They're going to let everything compact down, come back and mill the road, and then pave it just like >> Are they responsible for the potholes

018in it during the winter? I had Tim from Eversource in my office today pointed just a stretch right in front of town hall and I said as soon as a state DOT plow hits that section that se ball we'll address it. I said I'll call you every day Tim because um I'm going to see the pothole every day and my phone's going to ring every single day. So they're going to take full responsibility but it's not from a lack of communication from at least the town manager's office that um that road was beautiful. It really was. Um, you know, yeah, I know we got to work some things out, slow traffic down, all of that, but it was >> it's not going to be great. They're not gonna, no matter what they do, it's not

019going to bring it back the way it was. >> Going to continue to advocate, you know, the state statutes and laws >> do not make the uh contractors to go gutter to gutter, >> right? >> But I'm in case they should or they should let them just mill it and they don't do the nine inches, just two inches. Yeah. Well, you know, then you got the DOT standard. It's more than 9 in on a on a main one. You're going to nine inch. >> Is it nine? I thought it was 12, but >> but it's still I mean, you don't have to do a full redep. They can do that, but whatever. >> And also, as I told you during the week, I'm very upset at their laxida traffic patterns. Um there I mean there's

020guys standing around all over the place and there's cones flying through the air from track to trailer trucks and then they go in the middle of the lane where you're supposed to drive and you got to run it over and the signs are laying down in the road and nobody's doing anything. >> I I have that >> they made the pattern so tight that that's going to happen. So they needed to have somebody watching that. >> The day you called me, did you notice that it improved because I jumped on that? the next day and same thing happened >> the next day. Okay, cuz I jumped on it immediately. Obviously, we're dealing with an OSHA issue. We've gone through our obviously it's not us that is constructing it, but I jumped on it immediately. I

021went then the following day or that afternoon, saw that signs are up, cones were up. Um, but I guess I got to continue to stay on them. So, >> yeah. I mean, it's just a safety hazard for everybody. >> It's hard enough to get through the cones and then when they're laying in front of you, too. >> Yeah. Moving on to item seven, correspondence. Does anyone have anything? >> Item number eight, boards and commissions. >> Do you have anybody? >> I I do not have anybody right now. We still have one pending, but I did not get a chance to touch base with her this week. >> Yeah, because there was somebody for the planning and zoning. There was someone in the list. >> Yeah, I just haven't chance to to follow this but no

022new no new additions other than that. >> No, I had mentioned a couple meetings ago that it would be helpful that when these applications come forward even though they're almost a year old that we are presented with them. I know it's a little more work for whoever generates them but it really would be helpful if we could them in our packets. >> Yeah. Last meeting we had Janet Perry for planning didn't have a chance to reach out so that she could fill the vacancy for this commission and these are volunteers. >> I get that. >> Okay. >> Right. Moving on to item nine, unfinished business. We have nothing listed, >> Mr. Mayor. >> Item 10, new business. A Winston Health Center Tax Abatement, Town Manager Harrington, and NCHIC, Northwest Housing and Innovation Center. >> Thank

023you, Mr. Mayor. And joining me tonight, uh, I'm going to introduce Chris, who will then introduce her team. Um, it's obviously on our agenda as the Northwest Connecticut Housing and Innovation Center, but you all may be familiar with this project as the Winston Health Center. Um they're coming here tonight with a uh a presentation. One to talk about their project to get us our refamiliar uh with what they're uh looking to accomplish over there, but also to make this project work with all the state and federal funding. Um they're they're here for an ask for a a a tax abatement. So Chris, are you ready? I don't see >> you want to start and then Jeff, do you want to we're gonna get the the powerpoints going. Do we have an ETA on Kevin? >>

024Um, he told me 7:15 about 45 minutes ago. He's stuck in traffic if the board so wishes and it's the, you know, do you want to take B before we take A? Give Kevin a little bit more time to get here. >> Sure, >> that's permissible. >> You want to do that? I mean, >> working on the A. Go for it, big boy. >> Working in what? Never mind. Keep going. >> I missed a joke if there was one there, but >> All right, sir. We are going to uh >> skip item A for now and we'll come back to that. We're going to move on to item B, speed camera bid reviews. >> Okay. So, um again, I do apologize and and the sheet that I handed out just before the the meeting began

025um looks like this. Um, we went out to bid uh an RFP uh and put it obviously as many places as we possibly could to get proposals of all of the companies that offer these speed cameras that are currently allowed in the state of Connecticut. Happy to report in in going through this RFP process that we are the only town in Connecticut that actually went to RFP and we actually got a few proposals from different companies to offer it. Uh we did get four proposals sent back to us. Um each one is going to be listed on the sheet. Um I'm going to walk through the the the basis of you know what the proposals are coming in like potential liability with each one of these uh particular companies. Um I want to state very

026publicly and firmly that this is a long process. The direction that the board may send me in does not guarantee speed cameras are going to show up tomorrow. This could take anywhere from 12 to 18 months. The public will be brought in during the process. All the town manager is looking for is to move to the next step to at least start to look at do we want to do speed cameras in different areas throughout town. Um, in order to do that, we would, you know, work with one of the particular vendors and then come up with all of it and we'd bring the public in, obviously the board in there be a a lot of discussion, but in order to do that, we need to settle in on one and then go from there.

027So, four companies and you could see that all of them install the cameras for free. Mr. Marino, not any of the proposals reached that that were submitted. We reached out to them and asked them, "What if we buy this system?" It was a question you brought up at the last meeting. They said, "We don't do that." They said, "Okay, thank you very much." So, and I think you'll see why as we we move through. >> Um, three of the companies have monthly maintenance fees. You can see it ranges anywhere from $1,250 all the way up to $3,500. There are additional add-ons that you can add to protect uh to a few of them. And what those add-ons are is they will be your collection agency. You can see that um the fees paid per town,

028you can see ranges anywhere on the low side of $30 all the way up to 65% of the fee that gets charged out there. Right now, the state of Connecticut allows you to charge $50 for the first offense. you can add a $15 processing fee to that. Um, and then if they are caught within 60 days, that second offense can go up to $75 plus a $15 uh uh processing fee. Moving through, we we we wanted to pull an example to just give you a baseline. We said, "Okay, we're gonna issue 2,000 tickets a month at, you know, a $65 ticket." And and there's a lot of whatifs. And, you know, I'm going to I'm going to share with you some some information I got from Middletown after talking with them this afternoon. But, you

029know, we said roughly and and this example is saying that we're going to write 2,000 tickets per month or or this uh equipment is going to write 2,000 uh tickets per month. You can look down at the monthly revenue that you know each particular vendor would supply to the town. You can then look at the revenue that the vendor would receive um per per month. Now I'm going to look at the first one for an example and this isn't to you know say anything negative or positive about the first vendor but they're first on the list. You can see under the example of 2,000 tickets per month the town's monthly revenue would be $95,000. I asterric that is if we collect all of the citations that have been issued, the vendor would receive $35,000 a

030month. Actually, you know, you multiply that out by 12 months. The town would receive yearly revenue of just over $1.1 million. The yearly revenue to the vendor would be $420,000. So, in total, citations would obviously equal just about $1.5 million. Um the yearly uh the monthly liability to the town is $35,000 and the yearly liability to the town is $420,000. So this first one for example, you'll see that the town will be invoiced only for paid citations, not citations issued, and will continue to receive share of revenue regardless of citations are collected. So that's saying that we're going to spend, you know, $1,250 a month. We get paid and they get paid only when a citation is paid. Right? Moving down to the second one, you can see that the yearly revenue to the vendor

031is $273 27 $273,000. This one under the agreement is the town is invoiced based on a fixed fee price per camera system. meaning this the vendor listed as number two, they get paid based on citations that are issued. And the best example I can give to that is when I talked to the uh Middletown this afternoon is Middletown actually ended up going with Docker Technologies and we originally looked at Dockra when I first started to look at speed cameras and and such and I was pretty impressed with their system and then started to learn a little bit more about these systems. So Docker Technology charges $13.50 50 per citation issued. If it's a citation, $7 if it's a warning, they bill any town that goes with this particular, you know, system, they bill the town

032$1350 or $7, no matter if that citation is collected or not. So, a great example, Middletown made a lot of press recently. Find a cheat sheet on Middletown. We don't have Middletown as one of the vendors that responded that. >> We do not. No. So, Docker was, you know, they they didn't obviously respond to our uh to our RFP process, but Docker was a company that I met with um So, here's a great example of Middletown. So, Middletown uh ended up issuing $10,000 in speeding tickets since the middle of July. those fines totaled $600,000. But if you go with a system where they invoice you per citation, you take $10,000 or $10,000 tickets and you times that by let's say everybody got a citation. Everybody gets a citation. $13.50 this particular company would invoice the

033town for $130,000. Y'all are great. So, the city of Middletown issued $600,000 in fines. To date, they've only collected $30,000, but they still owe the agency $130,000. So, I think it's very, very important as we work through this sheet, we look at what the exposure possibly to the town may be in terms of what types of liability are out there. And you can see on the sheet, and this came up today after we met with the team and we brought everybody in, we added that red column, and you could see potentially based on the model of 2,000 citations issued, what the liability would be for each one of the vendors that put in an RFP, except you get down to Sightream. Sitream has no camera installation, no monthly maintenance fee. The town gets $30 a

034ticket. They take 35 yearly income based on 2,000 tickets. The town would receive $720,000. The vendor would receive $840,000. But they only get paid if we get paid. Meaning on the 1st and the 15th of the month, all this money goes into a pot. On the 1st and 15th of the month, Sightstream would go in and swipe the account and take their portion and then pay out the proceeds of our portion in that it stays in this quote unquote escroed account that only they get paid. There's no invoicing that ever comes to the town. Sitstream along, you know, with their proposal, they provide a collection agency because again, they have a vested interest to get the citation paid because They don't get it paid. They don't get paid. We don't get paid. There's no invoicing.

035All that we get out of Sightstream is simply a revenue source at the end of the year. Um, a question came in from the mayor today, which I think I'll I'll I'll say to the board. Um, what if somebody uh uh protests their ticket, they want to go to court, site sends all the speed calibration reports to the courthouse to say, "Our machines are operating properly. Here's the picture of their license plate and everything." So they go and they actually, you know, fight the ticket if anybody were to go um and actually claim, you know, that it wasn't there. I will note, and I think it's important early on in the process that you gave your friend your car for the day and they sped through this speed zone. The owner of the car, the

036registered owner of the car receives the ticket. So, if you're a nice person and you loan out your car, you may want to keep that in mind. Also, that you know, each one of these agencies that uh applied, they will work through all of the documentation that we need to submit to the DOT to get approval, they will then come in and and by state law, you have to clearly identify that you're entering a entering a speed uh camera check zone and that you're exiting a speed camera check zone. So, I know I shared a few meetings ago, you know, the number of speeders that we caught. It was massive. 72% of the people that were driving through these zones. Some of the audience is looking at me like, "Whoa, wow. We didn't identify the

037zones to anybody. Nobody knew there was a speed camera there at the present time." Do I feel I hope not, but do I feel that the number would still be at 72%. probably not because we literally have to identify that you're entering the speed zone and that you're exiting the speed zone. And that's that's designed by state statute and that they don't want you to, you know, got you anything like that. But um that's why we use 2,000 uh tickets uh roughly a month. We we we felt very conservative with that number in the beginning. We do think it's probably going to be much higher than that and then learned behavior will happen and obviously it be less and less and less. Wherever we put the camera, the camera needs to remain for 18 months.

038Then we would have to petition the DOT to move that camera to a different location. Um, and why we want to move that. But again, any of the agencies, not just, you know, ones at the bottom, but any of the agencies work through all of that. They do help, you know, produce all of the uh material that needs to go out on the street identifying that, you know, uh travelers are entering the speed zone. So, uh the good news is is we can get into this and get the cameras installed for free on any company. Then it's just a matter of do we want to take the liability on as the town or do we not? Do we want to pay monthly fees? Do we not? or say, you know what, why don't we do

039this at no cost to the town, potential revenue source, and if we get it, great. If we don't, we're not out anything because we didn't put quote unquote any skin in the game. The only skin in the game that we're technically putting in is our roads, which okay, that's some big skin in the game, but we don't have any financial commitment to at least try and slow down traffic. You know, I I I talked about schools opening back up again. We can put them in school areas. I can't tell you how many times people have come in and said, "We need to slow traffic down on on our main street. This could be an opportunity for us to start to slow down traffic." I uh received a an email over the weekend. Somebody was up

040at the tennis courts for two hours. Just that alone, they were shocked at how many speeders in two hours were, you know, cruising down Raleigh Street. So, there were a lot of areas at them. Um I I I open it to the board for any questions. >> Paul, the um the only thing that's going to change the liability on the town is when the motor vehicle um will not let you renew your registration and everything's new right now. So Washington's getting hit because that probably had once people realize that they're not going to be able to register their car, you're going to have to pay the ticket. though eventually. >> But right now in Connecticut, that's not a thing. >> It is a thing. >> It is. They did change that. >> So that's what

041I'm saying. It's It's not It hasn't been >> operational long enough >> for people to know that part. >> So So Washington will be probably getting their money back eventually. So, one of the things that we noticed um over over the last two years when the state law switched to registration um for vehicles from two years to three years that you saw tax bills becoming a little bit more delinquent. I I got three years before I have to worry about that. >> Well, you don't have to pay your ticket for three years. >> So, and again now you don't have to pay did they move out of town? Did they excuse me? Did they move out of state? You know, things of that. caution when you say, "Okay, great. I I saw it directly when

042the state moved from a two-year registration to a three-year registration that people kick that can a little bit further because, oh, I I I have my registration. Oh, I don't have to worry about that now for three years." And then they all come in and, you know, they got to register their car. So, then they pay. It's It's crazy because it's 18% but because of the state now allowing registration to kick out for three years, you know. So, so Paul, um, for example, number one says the town's only invoiced for paid citations, not citations used, right? >> Issued. Yep. >> Uh, I'm going to just be clear of these vendors, how many of these have the similar situation that that Middletown has where we could be faced with a bill each month for this? So

043if you look at 2A, 2A would bill you every month. Well, on the 1st and 15th, they would bill you um every month. So under the FM FFM, the town is invoiced based on fixed fee price per camera system and citation issued. So 2A is going to be a feebased, you know, this particular. >> So similar to Middletown, we could be faced with a greater expense than we are revenue. >> Correct. And that's that's that red box, right? And that's that's taking into, you know, 2,000 tickets a month >> with with everybody but Sightstream. >> Uh yes. Um >> that's what I was trying to get to. So all the other vendors with the exception of Sightstream, we could be in a negative situation. >> We could potentially be in a negative situation. Yes. I

044have a question back to the people having to uh pay the ticket before they reregister their car. Who is keeping that data and how is it available to the our tax collector? >> So in order to and I'm going to I'm going to hack the name of the the system. So both our tax collector has access to release a motor vehicle if so if you come in and you want to you you know your your car needs to be registered. Our tax collector can go into the system. The name is escaping me right now and actually say that it's been marked paid. It's going to work very similar to that in that we can go in and and mark that particular ticket as paid which would then allow the uh individual to register their motor

045vehicle. It's a very simple thing where if if you want to get a release on your vehicle that day, we ask that you bring in, you know, certified check or cash. >> Reason I'm asking is because you you just talked about three years. It's possible for somebody to get a ticket today and not renew the registration until three years from now and have to pay that ticket. So where for three years is that data stored that it pops up and the town has to prove that they gave that ticket. So, how's >> the motor vehicles would reject the registration? >> I know motor vehicle reject it and the person's going to come in and swear upside down that they didn't get a ticket and it's wrong. And so, we're how is the town going to

046store that three-year-old data so that it's there to say, "Nope, look over here. Are we gonna have a big book of it where at the end of every six months the we get our new whatever company gives us a big book with all the citations in it. Are we just going to get an electronic file of some sort? >> I would hope it's an electronic file. >> How is it? So I mean I mean that's going to have to be >> it's going to have to be that >> it's going to have to be stored for the three years. >> Yeah. if if we go down the route, you know, of of you know, I I I guess yeah, even even with, you know, the company that that that has little well, I'll just say

047no liability, we're still going to obviously want to collect um that information. Now, Sightstream looking at, you know, their backend office stuff and, you know, the the the owner and CEO of the company is also the inventor of the company. Um, I did not go down that particular uh rabbit hole for question. I think it's a great question and I don't have the answer because how are we keeping that information? Three years is a lot of time. >> So, who reports delinquent taxes to motor vehicles? The tax office. >> The tax office. Yes. >> Does I guess so I guess the question nutshell is does sit stream when these tickets aren't paid does sitream report these to motor vehicles >> or do we report these? So, right is I and I don't want to I'm

048gonna guess I would think because sight stream wants to be they're going to report it to the DMV. They're going to have that direct link access but I want to get the answer to that. Again, you know where we are in this process is very early on. We have a ton of work to do if we decide that we want to go really you know tonight is you know went to RP we obviously got you know four applications back. What I was hoping um is the board picks one or two and we start going down the path of beginning this process because again we're 12 to potentially 18 months before we even see it. And there is a lot of work. There's a lot of questions to be answered and a lot of them are

049are not engaging because right now there are so many different companies out there that are pitching these to to communities. you see them popping up all over the place. I'm pretty proud of us that we were the only town so far that went out in request for proposals. >> I mean, in my in my mind, Paul, I look at these numbers and anything that's in red, we we've been through two budget seasons already. Anything that has a potential liability to it on me, I'm the least interested in. >> However, however, if it's getting reported to motor vehicles, worst case, the liability is going to exist for a maximum of three years. and we're getting 90% of our money. Correct. >> From what I understand, the logistics here are Paul. >> Sitream, if that was the

050vendor, they issue the citation. >> The town doesn't issue the citation. Sightream issues a citation. They collect the money and pay us. >> So, every one of these uh companies that you see on the list is they issue the citation when >> So, they have to be tied into the state systems if they're doing that. >> I would assume you're you're correct. That didn't come up. So, I don't want to, you know, put the stamp on it. Every one of these agencies or companies will issue the ticket. It's just a matter of who's going to invoice when they issue the ticket and who's not going to invoice us and just write us a check on the 1st and 15th of the month. >> It is very tempting to look at those dark green, you know,

0511.2 million numbers and go, "Wow, that would be great." Um, but as selectman Lamir and Po said, I'm not interested in anything that's going to have us in a situation like Middletown. >> Well, let me let me let me let me cast it a different way, too. Um, so you look at that that, you know, first box, right? It's $420,000 yearly liability to the town. So, times that by three years, you could potentially be on the hook until we get paid. Um, if I have to, you know, we talked about this as a group today, you look at that that that first proposal, right? I'd have to create an expense item in the budget. I'd have to create a revenue source, but I would literally have to create, now I don't have my crystal ball.

052I would not want to put $420,000 in on the expense side, hoping that some people pay their ticket. But then I look at Middletown who issued $600,000 in tickets and they only collected 30,000 bucks. >> I mean, so it seems that three of us have already said we would, you know, looking at this, we would be in favor of number three. >> Um, how does everybody else feel? >> I'm curious. What what did your team say? What's what's the input from the chief? There are three of them where the town is responsible. Is that another position that they So, I I need to know some information. I need to know what the chief of police feels about this. >> So, I talked to the uh the chief of police actually just before this meeting uh

053started. Well, a couple hours before the meeting started. So, in each one of these examples here, there is somebody that's going to need to go in and click to either issue a citation, a warning, or take no action >> Within the police department, yeah, it can be a design of the chief or or or the local traffic authority. Um, so um but the good news, I should probably point this out as well. Um, so every single one of these companies, we do need to designate a person to either >> click the button, >> not click the button, >> 2,000 times a month, >> theoretically, >> minimum. Yeah, minimum. Um, it doesn't take long. I I I I walk through the example. I I think it's important. Um, and I do apologize, SEO grapo, because I'm

054going a little bit off, but this money per state statute is quote unquote lockboxed in the police department. We cannot fund schools, but we can fund positions. It's all things that can control speed. So, let's say two officers positions get funded. Well, that would free up I'll throw out a number, $200,000 in our budget because we could take the revenue from this. So, we we can free up some money, supplement the police budget with the revenues from this. Obviously, you know, if this thing grows, do we assign, you know, we get 10,000 tickets uh a month, not 2,000. We may be looking at funding a designated person just to go through the tickets. >> At that point, it would be selfunded. >> Oh, that's and then some. >> And then some, >> but then, you

055know, you you think learned behavior that it's going to come down. So, you know, we'd want to be very cautious in that, you know, we make it perfectly well known this is being funded through this program, but if the program goes away, >> the learn behavior is only going to happen amongst locals. >> Okay. >> It's the people's cutting through town, you know, that >> Well, do you have the projection on that? Do you like have you built some sort of a projection or these companies built some sort of projection on the on the trend line >> and where the trend line's going to be on it? Because the other thing I think we need to look at is we have these fees or the split at the very beginning. You know, there's an investment

056by the company with the equipment and then the equipment's working and their maintenance over time is less. So the money that they're collecting or taking as their share from us, they've already already paid off the cameras and then their share is more about a profit margin than it is about, you know, personnel or equipment man taking care of it, you know, maintenance and stuff. So, is there in in any of these the ability to change the percentages as as as the speeders go down and the percentages that we all get are if we stay the same, we would all go. But is there an opportunity within a contract in the future to change our percentage from, you know, instead of us at 30 and them at whatever it was 35 >> because there's still some

057money on the table somewhere because that doesn't add up to 100. And so, you know, can we can we get a larger percentage each year? Kind of like >> the ticket is 65. That's where the 30 and 35 comes in. >> Yeah. Okay. 30 and 30. But so, uh, and then the split happens. >> So after 18 months um per uh agreements that uh were sent during it, it would be open for negotiations. So no guarantee again in 18 months we can kick we can kick these things out >> by 18 months. Could we get a new vendor? >> We could we could get a new vendor in 18 months. Yes, we could get a new vendor in 18 months. I I think the questions that this board came up were were so helpful when

058we started this process of I think it was this side I I don't remember the person but said well what's the data well and my answer was well these things are so new I I don't get the data and then you all allowed me to go out and actually get our data but here's some data that that's pretty interesting in Middletown after speaking with them. So, um, the first week that they put these cameras in, they had 144 motorist violations in a week. That now has dropped to 21,000 a few months into the cameras in Middletown. You could see the learned behavior significantly significantly dropped. Okay. So, 144 motorists when they actually advertise entering a speed zone, now it's dropped down to 21,000. Um, so there was some definite now heavy advertising. It was all

059over the news, you know, there was press releases all over the place with it. So, um, as far as any additional learn behavior, these are so like new. Um, and I did reach out to Washington. I I I didn't get a call back because I want to see what they had thought. >> The one in Washington is heavily heavily marked. >> Yeah. Oh, that's the way >> you get a ticket to that one. Anybody gets a ticket that one you deserve to take it 100%. >> You have four signs before you get to the thing. >> You know, talking with a lot of the different towns in the cog alone, I know a lot of the towns are are starting to look into this. I think Connecticut because they have passed this law. Um, this

060is going to probably be a very short term, and by short, a few years, 20 years from now, everyone's just gonna You can't speed in Connecticut because every town's going to have them, you know, every just basing the interest off of talking with COG members now, you know, their CEOs, their mayors, their first selectments, reading newspaper articles. I don't think there's a town out there out of 169,000 that isn't at least looking at this. I think Troy, excuse me, Sman Lamir, you had said your first elect's looking at this. Um, right now there's no one that I'm I'm I'm talking with that isn't looking at it. >> So, to Candy's point to to see the long-term data >> is sight stream's national, correct? >> Uh, not just national, but uh worldwide. >> Okay. So I

061I know for a fact there's states Texas has been doing this for years. They've had these cameras. Can they get us national data to say that for the first year they're collection and and and after four years it's it's continually >> we can get all that. Yeah. Um we can we >> What does that tell us though? Does that tell us okay we shouldn't do it because it's going to drop off after the first year or does it tell us does it tell us that I mean the intent here is to slow people down? It's it's >> and then the revenue is a nice plus to that. But >> whether or not it stays at the the numbers here or they drop off, we're not investing to do this if we chose that particular vendor.

062So what's the downside for us and what's the there's no >> what are we trying to learn from the data? >> Because you're talking about one vendor. We're supposed to be selecting amongst a bunch of vendors here. So the data tells us, well, this vendor will cost us this in the end because the numbers are slid >> for me. I'm not willing to put us in in any situation where we got to write a check. >> You also make sure that whatever you're doing, whoever's doing the clicking that that person isn't going to cost us more more money and that >> that's where the long-term data I think comes in. Paul, if it drops to, >> you know, you're having 5% of the tickets >> versus 100%. >> If it dropped in half from what

063we've estimated here, >> it's still going to fund one position. Yeah. Well, it's well it's well over $300,000. It's gonna it's going to fund one position and a whole and a lot more. So, I guess we can get all the data and we can spend weeks and months getting all the data >> or we could go we're not making an investment here. We it will slow people down which is really the primary thing we're trying to do >> and if we get the other vendors are not interesting because I'm not willing to put us in a situation we have to write a check. >> I agree. Nobody wants to be in a position at the budget season like, "Wow, great news. We had to write a check for 400,000 for for the speed camera service

064and we didn't get the revenue from that." I'll take the lesser revenue and let them handle all the risk and they handle the collections and they're willing to add cameras, Paul, if we wind up and say, "We had success with this for two years. We want more cameras." >> They'll they'll put 10 cameras out. I I'm not suggesting this. They'll put 10 20 cameras in town tomorrow. any of these companies as well. >> I went through Washington in that camera I was telling you about and the one thing I noticed about learn behavior right there is I saw people pulling out of driveways they come up everybody immediately would slow down they saw the camera soon as they got an eighth of a mile past that camera I'd watch the car in front of me

065like right right to 80 miles an hour. >> I think it's because they knew they were past camera. So if you could add more move them >> I think it's great that we got the RFP Paul. I mean it's I'm glad that we have all these different proposals to look at to compare to. Um, but there's, you know, one stands out without liability for us. I don't know how you I don't know how you put us in a situation where we'd have liability. >> I suggest you just move ahead with the um site stream and bring us back more information. >> Is that a motion? >> Do we have to make a motion? I >> I I was not looking for a motion. I was just looking for direction because again, you know, we're dealing

066with a very sensitive item. Um, I don't think we want to, you know, make it a motion. We haven't agreed on any of this. I just needed to know that this board felt comfortable to at least be honest to start the process. All I was on was a factf finding mission right now. we could get some more information, you know, from uh, you know, these particular companies and you you all may decide to pump the brakes, you know, before it even gets into the public. You you may say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not what I originally thought." I I guess to hear what the board is saying, you know, I if I were to to to give a recommendation, I would say, may I have the permission to talk to two of these companies?

067Uh, you know, you look at Sitstream, which I think, you know, the board's warm warm war warmed up with, and and let me let me let me talk to this uh J 2A. Um, I don't I don't want to hack their name. Um uh but it's always good when you you know this is a public meeting. You know when you have two on the hook it's always better than one because then you're going to get the best deal. You know >> um and that we're not going to piggyback ourselves but let me let me play two of them out. There's nothing in state statute that uh doesn't allow me to vet you know two vendors to get the best deal. Well, you have some information that we asked to to get >> for the town.

068>> I think that's fine. Paul, you said, just to clarify, >> camera system maintenance, you said that's 1,700 monthly or annually. >> Monthly >> to maintain the cameras. >> Yes. On on uh three of the >> four cameras basically. Four cameras would be 1,700 a month. >> Yeah. >> Have somebody clean the lens every week. >> Well, that's no, it's more than that. there's ensuring that the calibration I is perfect. Um, you know, I I don't pretend to, you know, know what everybody's P&L statements are, but, >> you know, there there is work to to to go in. Um, you know, one thing that, you know, I I I did ask is what if they get hit? >> You know, um, our light poles get taken down. So, this is going to be on a

069pole. What if it gets hit? Every single one of these will will cover it. They have insurance on it. it's not going on our insurance. So, it's it's their equipment. We're just benefiting from them putting their equipment, you know, in our spaces. So, >> I think another thing to consider is if we're serious about doing this every, as you pointed out earlier, most towns are going to be looking at this and if we're interested in doing it, if we spend months talking about it, by the time we get around to it, it could be two years before, you know, the DOT is going to get backed up because they're going to have a you know how many towns in in the state? >> 169. So, we got 169 folks that are going to be doing

070it. You got uh DOT is going to need to do it. I'd say if we're interested in slowing down the traffic and creating the revenue, let's let's drill into those two that you're talking about, Paul. Um but you would have to really um come back with something earthshatteringly different >> before I'd be interested in any of the ones where we have exposure. >> So, quick uh shout out to my friends over at the DOT. the state statute was written that once we apply to put these cameras up, the DOT has 60 days per state statute to respond to the town's request. But I think to your point, uh, Suckman Marino is that these particular agencies just have so many employees. There's a lot of work that needs to go into writing these reports to at

071least submit to the DOT. So I think um where the bogdown potentially could happen is that these companies um get a lot of towns uh initiating and writing stuff that could be the bog down. State statute says the DOT has 60 days which is great but the companies are going to get jammed. >> The companies are going to get jammed. >> Nothing goes fast from DOT >> 60 days per statue. >> Not going to happen. So >> one of the things I think we need to keep in mind if we learned anything from CO it's going to be supply chain. If we wait too long the tariffs on chips for these cameras may increase prices supply chain backups when everybody starts ordering these cameras. I think it's in a perfect world we'd control our speed

072in town by our cops pulling cars over but that's just not possible. They'd be overwhelmed at this point doing that. Uh, so I think if we're going to move with this, we need to select the plan that does the less harm to the town, which is definitely this the sid stream in my opinion. Uh, but I think we should move as quickly as we can to get the stuff ordered uh while we're doing the paperwork if that's even permissible because if we started now, it's probably nine month 9 to 12 months to get it done, >> right? I hope that >> well I think one of the things that we ought to talk about then is where we're going to place these cameras because I don't think that just Main Street is enough. >> I

073think North Main Street definitely needs to have cameras. >> Well, I think that >> I I would do Main Street. I would do Rowley Street. >> I would do Old Route 8 and I would also put one over by Pearson School. >> So, four was in this particular >> comparison the RFP Paul, right? That's what you have here as four. Cameron, >> we listed it as four. Now >> is there a is there a uh limit on the number of cameras we can start with if we set up but the other question I have and we can pick roads right because all of us drive on certain roads and we see the speeding what are the experts telling us who study traffic patterns and understand this where the cameras should go >> um what the

074experts and by uh experts I'm going to aster that by the owners or managers of these companies they'll tell you they'll install 20 cameras if you so desired. I will let you know that if you look at all of the towns in Connecticut, they have started small. They wanted to get their feet wet. You look at Middletown, they are Middletown started with two, they quickly went to four. They are looking to add two more. Okay. So, um what is the right answer? I my opinion, I would be anywhere from probably four to six cameras. I don't think we want, you know, we we want to get exposure. We want to get our our feet wet a little bit, but we can simply within three months, I think, you know, we can act very quickly because

075all of the work of setting up the ordinance and everything that's been done to add additional cameras is a very simpler process than the initial process of allowing us to view this, right? Um I I think you know anywhere from four to six is the number. I also need you to keep in mind when I say four, each camera pointed in a direction is one. So you want >> you want north south mount just at that end of town >> or east and west. You got two cameras. >> Yeah. So that's two right there. So that may, you know, come into play of bumping you up to six. This board you may want to go to eight. It's, you know, >> to you. So, let's say we wanted to start with slowing down Main Street

076because we hear all the time, Main Street's dangerous. It's tough to come visit the restaurants and businesses because it's dangerous, right? To slow down Main Street, if I understand this correctly, you'd have to have how many cameras because you're going to start down here. >> You're pointing this way, correct? We just want to make sure you >> I'm pointing towards Queen. Yeah. >> Oh, no. That Oh, then you're going that way. >> That way, Trevor, I got my Okay, that way. Okay. >> So, you're going to start down there somewhere. >> Yep. >> With the signs potentially when you're entering town. >> And the signs will say you're entering a zone. Is there a is there a uh from the signs to the camera? Is there rules on that or can they be anywhere within

077the zone? In other words, you could have a sign just past the welcome to Winchester sign that >> No. So you're going to you're going to enter the zone literally where the camera is. There's going to be and as you were up in Washington, you'll know where the camera is. >> There's four. You know where they are. >> You know, you're going to clearly identify. >> So if we wanted a camera start down by the green to slow traffic down all the way past um >> put several of them. >> I mean, how many just to just to solve Main Street's problems because Main Street the businesses tell us it's dangerous and we all know that it is. Right. crossing the street here when you park and you're trying to at night in particular to

078cross the street. So, how many cameras just to fix Main Street? >> Remember that you have to get the DOT sign off on this. So, to be >> perfectly honest, I think the most you're going to be able to see on Main Street is probably four, but two in each direction if that makes So, >> so you're going to get one coming and one leaving. >> You're all Yeah. Yeah. >> I Yeah, that way. I put one at the Y on the corner. >> And then to me, Paul, the and I'm sure everybody agrees is to protect the children, right? We have three three hot zones. They go by Pearson school. I've dropped my kids, my grandkids off in the morning and seen cars go around the buses doing 45 miles an hour down that

079road. The soccer fields over here where the where the stop sign is, every other car stops. The rest of them just blow through it. >> We should target the hot spots. And if that number means it's going to be four or eight, then so be it. But let's target the hot spots where we have >> people that are in peril. >> So I do have a question for you. >> Just just get 20. Just order 20. We'll find a spot for them. >> I don't mean to I just because I'm trying to take notes and everyone's talking quickly. So Main Street, Raleigh, Pearson playground. There were some other >> Raleigh and then Candy by the soccer fields, a stop sign. Um >> Oh. below. >> It's where all the kids are there before school, during

080school, after school. >> And just so I have all the information, when you say, you know, the playground, you're obviously going to want them in both directions. Correct. You're not just going to want >> I think anywhere we're putting them, they need both directions. >> Yeah. I don't want to assume anything. I just want to make sure we're all on the same page. Okay. >> How are they kids crossing the road, doesn't matter which direction the car is from, I want them. I think you could also like go ask the police >> downstairs like where would you if you were to put speed cameras out where would you put >> so being solar powered I would have some concerns up at the lake we have the speed sign that's solar powered lots of times it

081doesn't get the sun that it needs so I think >> a lot of us would extension >> so so the the vendor has reason for these to work. Yes, they do. >> And then >> they have a vested interest to make sure >> talking about the lake I imagine Wi-Fi >> connected. >> Yeah, they all have that five >> drive around the lake. There are several sections of the lake with no cell service. >> So, we have lots of areas of town with with terrible service. >> Yeah, one one would think that they've got it figured out. They're going to >> You do go to North Pal. >> Um, any other questions? >> We could be like of the border with signs 30 miles from the sign 29 miles. >> We have to come up

082with really creative signs then >> Pedro's place. >> So I think we're all in agreement that we'd >> probably like to do something >> and by agreement because we're being watched and this is you know this this is a sensitive issue by agreement we're looking to just start a process to get a better understanding. It's not, this board has not agreed to go down the the avenue of putting a speed camera on, you know, North M. >> So, can you take us through the process for getting the paperwork with DOT? What about our process? Is it a public meeting that happens on this? What's the process? >> You got to have an ordinance. >> So, there are uh so it's the legal framework. So, state authorization of 2023 allows municipalities to adopt red light cameras.

083Violators must exe exceed the speed limit by 10 miles an hour or greater to trigger the citation. Um develop a plan. A town must prepared a detailed municipal plan identifying proposed cameras, locations, example near schools, crosswalks, busy pedestrian areas backed by traffic data, police records, and crash statistics. This is any of the companies that are on this piece of paper is going to help us create this plan. Uh equity rule prohibits placing more than two cameras in a qualified census track and uh restrict placement near boundaries of high poverty towns uh to avoid unfair targeting. That's written in the statute. So you know where we go if you know it's proven that this could be a a poverished area. DOT is going to say try again. Um local approve uh approval process. The plan requires

084approval from the town legislative body which is you folks. Uh a public hearing must be conducted to gather community input about the proposed location and ordinance. We have to submit to the DOT for a formal review. CT do has 60 days to approve or reject the plan full or in part. If rejected, they provide feedback to revise and submit. Installation and launch. After the CT dot approval, the town can proceed with vendor procurement, installation of uh cameras, and placing mandatory warning signs of all approaches of each camera site for 30 days after activation. Only thing that can be issued are warnings. I think you would probably remember that from our first meeting. Um $50 for the first offense, 75 for uh subsequent offenses, plus an optional $15 processing fee. We've why wouldn't we you know

085because there is you know obviously labor involved in that cameras must be operated by trained and certified operators and undergo annual calibrations with documentation on file and then post operations reporting renewal within 18 months of starting the town must submit a report to the CT dot and the state legislation uh legislators any reports follow after that and plan approvals la uh last three years from first activation to continue be uh beyond three years so we could put it up for 3 years. When we put this out, we were only looking for 18 months because we didn't want to commit ourselves to anything longer than 3 years. Plus, I knew what some of the process is that after 18 months, you can renegotiate your contract. Uh, but you could go up to three years. Um, and

086then after 3 years, you got to start the whole process over again. >> Is there a better deal for the town at three years? Again, we haven't even gone down that road yet um with any of these vendors >> because the vendors if if the vendors have a three-year commitment versus 18, the fee adjustment might be something we can frontload as opposed to trying to negotiate it in 18 months. >> Could be. >> Um and so our part in this is we we agree on it. We have a public meeting for um input. We have to create an ordinance. >> Have to create an ordinance. >> Okay. >> Yep. um which any of these companies uh will help craft the ordinance. They will come to the meetings. They will talk with everybody. They'll obviously come

087to the public hearing with our community >> Washington's and Middletown right now. >> Yes. Yeah. That there are and many others that have started the process. Um there's ordinances being crafted and are further along in the process. >> So what's the next step for this board, Paul? >> Um let me uh engage two of these particular firms. Um, let me start them down the road of creating the uh plan and then present the plan to you. >> Should they come and present the plan? >> They will come and present the plan. >> I think that's I think that's a great I think that's a great plan. >> What are we giving them? Two weeks. >> We'll see you at the next meeting. >> See you at the next meeting. >> Put it at the end.

088>> Um, hey, you know what? I can ask. Um, but to be honest, >> do we need to have them present? I mean, because we're going to have to have a public hearing with your presenter. I get the the gist here. And so, is it just a matter of you making a recommendation of A or B that you've picked um in terms of what we've all just said and you make a recommendation to us after having talked to them behind the scenes that this is who we want to go to, let's start the process. >> So, I would take what Sluckman Perez said and add to it. If you can have the police department identify the locations that they would like so that when we have this discussion again, we have a location. We have

089the locations, the quantity, and we can really make a informed decision. >> I can do that. I'm I'm sure the chief I know is watching downstairs right now because he's working late tonight. I'm sure he's already started the list. So >> tell me who's going to be watching. >> Thank you, Chief. >> So, hey, we good? >> We're good. I I I need no action. I I I have firm marching orders, which is what I was hoping for tonight. So, um we'll see you back. I don't know. I can't promise you in two weeks, but we'll get you some information right out of that. >> All right, we're going back to item A. Winston Health Center tax abatement, the Northwest Connecticut Housing and Innovation Center. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. As it was stating earlier,

090uh Chris is here u from the Winston Health Center. I'm going to uh bring up Chris. She's going to introduce her team. uh exciting project that I'm sure you've uh all heard about. It's been highly publicized uh as well. Um she'll introduce her team, talk about where the project is right now, share with you uh some of uh uh the the great uh things they're looking to accomplish and then they're asked for uh a potential tax abatement on this uh project that they're working on. Welcome Chris. >> Thank you so much. Um my name is Chris Griffin. the executive director at the Winston Health Center. I have been with the health center for 19 years now. Um I've seen it through many changes. Um I don't know how familiar you all are with the project

091that we're working on. So I'll start from the beginning and try to summarize it the best I can. But anyway, so you're all aware um the Winston Memorial Hospital used to be on our campus. The hospital went bankrupt in 1996. And at that time, a group of community volunteers got together, bought the property out of bankruptcy court, and formed the now Winston Health Center. We are a nonprofit. It's always been a nonprofit for as long as it's been in existence, which was 1902 at the Lville County Hospital. Um, it occupied, we have the Veterans Administration there and they're currently there and they will continue to stay on our campus through our redevelopment and into our new development. We had Charlotte Hungerford Hospital operating an emergency room there until January of 2021 where they moved to

092a new location at the end of Route 8, which is really what prompted us to have to think of what we could do with our campus to keep it relevant, right, for this community. We've been serving this community since the early 1900s, um, Winston and all of the surrounding communities. And what we came up with is the project that we are speaking about with you today. Um what it is is it's 40 units of affordable housing. It's uh mixes of studio, onebedroom, and two-bedroom apartments. There will be an emphasis on veterans for that affordable housing. Um and the other part of our campus will be a maker space innovation center, uh workforce development and training. We've partnered with CT State Northwestern, Tungstus, CT State Gateway, Gilbert, uh, Explorations, just to name a few, on that

093innovation and training, as well as local manufacturers. So, what we're really looking for tonight, um, thus far, we have received over $3 million, a million from Congressman Larson and 2.3 million from the Community Investment Fund, uh, which is the state of Connecticut, from TEC. We currently have in a construction grant with CIF that will be decided on this month if if our project is chosen. And what we've really been asked for um from the state because it will also be the Department of Housing for the housing piece of things um as well as CHFA. Um we've really been asked to to kind of coin something Paul said earlier in non relation to our project, but they really want to see our local town have some skin in the game, right? as far as buying for

094our project because what we're asking for from the state is a $35 million investment um to our campus to make this project come to fruition. So, in order for them um you know to want to move forward and do that for us, they really want to be able to see that the town is supporting our project as well. So, um at this time, what I'll do is I'll introduce my team who is sitting behind me. We have Kevin Grims. Kevin works for Grow America and we have David Berto. our housing consultant and I have Steve Long Prey who is a consultant right now on the maker space side of things. He has uh built two uh maker spaces in the past and he will be the director of the maker space once uh the building

095is complete. So um and this is Paul S. Now Paul is our architect. Um just so you guys also know we do have our municipal approvals. We have our inland and wetland approval as well as planning and zoning approvals already for the project. Um so again what we're here today is talk to you and and let you know about the project, but also to ask you for a tax abatement, which I'll let Kevin bring up at the after Paul shows you a little bit more of our project. We're not going to go into uh detail 4x4, but just to illustrate some of the some of the design that we have going on up there. >> Yeah, thank you. So, my name is Paul Associates. >> Paul, can I stop you for one sec? I apologize.

096Can you hit the red button so the mic's on? Which way? >> Chris has got it. There you go. >> That one. >> Has that been off the whole time? >> Yeah, it'll pick you up. Um, it just gonna say that again. >> So, so it was off the whole prior to this, too. It's been red the whole time. >> Um, so my name is Paul Salo, architect Salow Associates. As Chris said, I've been the architect for the project since very very early on when we began to talk about program and how to uh revitalize the Winston Health Center. Um as as Chris said, we've gone through planning and zoning and wetlands and early on we was determined and by by doing some of the analysis in town that the that this health center has

097been listed as a redevelopment site and a priority for the town. So what we've been working with here is a program that will continue a similar ambition, not in healthcare, but an ambition by serving the town and the community. So this is the ground level floor plan. And if you're familiar with this this site, it's it's clearly on a hill with multiple entrances, which actually does us a very good favor here because we've got so many different programs. Can I just ask a quick question? The >> the large square piece in the upper part of that print, is that the original old building? >> That is the original old building. >> Just want to get to perspective. Thank you. >> That that is the 1902 structure. Long rectangular shape down the bottom. That is the

098building from 57. And this entire center section right in through here was approximately 87. >> So if you're familiar with the campus at all, the older building has been doctor's offices pretty much, you know, since 1997. and the other building was the ER. Um, and actually even at our fullest capacity, uh, two of the floors of the health center have remained vacant and look exactly like they did when the hospital closed. So even at our our fullest, there's still two unutilized floors. >> Where is the old ED entrance on that map? >> It's right there. >> The emergency room entrance is right in through here where my cursor is going. >> Right >> down at the lower level that I'm going to be showing to you. the upper level. When you enter the building, you're

099actually entering in on this other side at ground level, which is this side. This is how you enter in and get into the main doctor's office level is here as well. >> And you said the old building was early 1900s, 192. >> Yeah. And the the long one at the bottom of the drawing. >> Yeah. >> And then it was connected sometime. >> It was connected in uh roughly 1987 to 72 to 87 in that range. There's a lot of things that happened. >> Some of us were actually born at the Winston Hospital. I was >> You too. That's awesome. There used to be a birthing house to the building. >> And my wife was there. It was there for 57. >> They brought him in on a wagon with the horse. >> Ju just

100to also mention I I just want to backtrack for a minute. Um the town did write our our project into the affordable housing plan for Winchester as well as the COG wrote us in their SS report for community for economic development as well. So, um, this is something that's been we've got a lot of support for, um, locally so far as well as, um, in Hartford, we have an enormous amount of support. >> Can you kind of walk us through in the three different structures, if you will, >> the intended use for each one of those? >> Certainly. So, that's why I started at at this this uh first floor level. This dark green space right in through here will be the office of of that will for the Winston Health Center. So this will

101be their office in that location. Right now the Veterans Administration is over in here. Their their facilities are uh the social services facilities right there. They're moving over into this portion of the building. So they'll also be in the 1902 building. the Windset Hell Center, they they have this facility on the upper floor of the 1957 building that's going to come down to this level and that's going to be right adjacent to this the primary control point which is directly at at at at grade right in through here. So this blue area down in through here is all apartments which are going to be happening on the ground level all the way up with the exception of the absolute lowest level which is which is the what we saying the maker space which has got

102the more of the uh uh the more of equipment oriented. So right now that's the basement that's the basement level of the building >> which is we got windows on the side and then directly above this area right in through here this is actually an elevated terrace because we're in in in the hill we have very little space for outside area so we creating a terrace on this area for anyone who is in this facility to use that space. Um, go back to the direction. So, directly right in through here, right in this corner, right into there is where the helicopters would land. And this is the emergency room. So, right in through here is the business entrepreneurial space. This is some of the the meeting space where a lot of u different program options

103could take place. talking with different um uh people here that are looking to to start new businesses, things of that nature. And >> we've gone up the floor now. We're on the second floor. >> You're on the ground. You just went down. >> You just went down. I went down the other way, >> right? I went down. I went down to the to the ground level. Okay. So, this is actually the basement of the 1902 building. And this is also uh part of our business entrepreneurial space where we're going to have different a lot of program activities going on through here. We're going to have some 3D modeling in there. There's some laser technology that's going to be in there some classroom going on in through there. We're looking at a culinary um component in

104here and a great deal of just um business entrepreneurial space for people who just want to start a business. Um and then on that level going down to this is the lowest level of apartments. This is the grade level and this is also apartments in here as well. Um and this is completely accessible to grade from there. >> So a way to make that more understandable. So the basement of the 1902 building runs right into the first floor of the 1957 building. So when you're looking at it, it's all one floor even though it's the basement of one building. It it it's just strange to >> it. It is. in this in this green level has an entire level below that, >> right? >> Um, and I do not have all six levels here because

105I think it's just way too confusing. And it this kind of tells you the program right there. And this is what the vision is for the end of the uh the project. Here's your 1902 building. This is the connection port right in through here. >> So that would have been the old ER entrance, >> right? This is the ER entrance, an open glass area. This is the terrace area that we have up and through here. This is aluminum panels that we have on the exterior of the building. There's vertical elements with actually the green uh landscaped wall areas on the stair, the elevators. Um that those are the vertical elements. That's a different tone from what's going on here in the horizontal components related in the in the housing area. And that's the vision of

106how the project is going to be refurbished. Um, it's going to be a complete inter everything inside the building that is nonstructural will be removed. So, we were not going to be keeping old systems and services and things of that nature in there. We've had extensive discussions with building a fire throughout this whole place. In fact, our construction documents by the end of the month are going to be 99% complete. So, we're incredibly close to final permitting or final pricing and then permitting. So, we are about a shovel ready as we can get here right now. >> Just out of curiosity, your all your mechanicals in this are they going on the roof? Are they going inside? You have >> So, there's a lot of mechanicals that are on this roof here, this walkway roof.

107Yeah, there's there's mechanicals up on this roof and there's some up on that roof. There's I think there's a couple pieces maybe. I think there's only one piece down in through here, but it is all on the roof. uh with the exception of our generator which is on grade behind the uh behind the structure which is probably going to be in and around this zone right in here on grade. >> I should also mention we did receive uh $500,000 for from Brownfield funds which will do the abatement remediation for the property. So we did also receive that. I didn't mention that before, but >> can you tell me a little bit about um so what Winstead Health Center and NCHIC, right? They're the entities that own >> So the Winston Health Center owns the property

108right now. >> And Winstead Health Center is a nonprofit. >> Winston Health Center is a nonprofit. Correct. And the Winston Health Center, we will change names as this starts to happen and we will become the new name, which is the Northwest Housing and Innovation Center. We will no longer be called the Winston Health Center, right? if we're going to assume a new name. Um, but one thing I should mention is the housing and the entrepreneurial space are two separate entities in one building, right? So, we're here really today to talk to you about the housing side. I just wanted you to understand how the whole project worked together because the people who reside there will be able to take advantage of what's happening in the other spaces of the building. They will be afforded the

109opportunities of the trainings of of anything that we have going on in the other parts of the building. people who uh live there will be able to take part in those things. >> Will the training only be available for residents of the >> No, it'll be open to anybody in the in the >> open to the community. There's a there's a membership basis for members to come in and use equipment. Like I said, we've partnered with CT State Northwestern and and Mike Rook already in their entrepreneurial center. Um John Fiorella has been part of our team since the beginning. We worked uh Steve has already had successful uh capstone project with um CT State is it gateway? gateway in tungst >> in tungstus right um so we've actively already started um the process and working

110and putting on programs and things like that so it's it'll be the community it'll be Winston and the surrounding communities the same communities that we've served since since we've been around at that camp yeah so it'll be Northfor it'll be Kanan it'll be um Barkhamstead Colebrook New Hartford and we're hoping to reach further right I mean the state looks at this as we're kind of a pilot project right nobody's done this before this is the first time something like this is being done if were successful at doing it. It's something we can we hope will be replicated in other areas. Um it's a really huge thing. It's huge for the housing crisis that we're having, but it's huge for economic development and community development, right? It's bringing in uh 40 more units of people. Now,

111granted, um we only have a few number of two bedrooms, but it's still bringing everybody in. They'll be using um the different amenities in the town. So, it's really adding to the economic development. We're hoping to upskill people. So, that will help in the job development and job creation. And um we work with the local manufacturers. We've been to Helmet. We've been uh to others. We um we know that there's a need here for this. Uh we know and and we're addressing the needs, right? We're meeting with the manufact uh to be met. So we really feel as though this is a huge project that answers to to many of the needs uh in the community. Yeah. >> So I'm sorry I have two more questions. Um, first, so the the rental income from these

11240 units goes obviously to NCHIC, right? >> Right. >> Okay. So you guys are collecting that to offset expenses for the programs or just operating whatever whatever. >> So So the housing money >> as a nonprofit, it's obviously it's just >> so so remember so the housing portion money that's collected will only go to the housing portion. It has to be separate. It will the money that's collected from the housing portion will not go to the maker space portion that is going to be separate. It can't it can't do that. So, it'll pay for the operations of the housing, the upkeep, the for everything that the the people who rent there need, the staff that operates uh that part of the facility needs um and those types of things, building maintenance and and all of

113those things. The operating budget for the maker space is separate. >> And and you said that there was a focus on veterans for the housing, right? Can you explain that in a little bit more detail for us? Sure. Well, so right now, as I mentioned, we have the community based outpatient clinic, which is the VA clinic on site already. They will continue on our site as this happens. Um, we work with the VFW. I have people on my my board incorporators who who are veterans. So, everybody knows, right, when you have apartments or whatever that are up for rent, you list that. So, for us, we're going to list it for all the places. And if you can go to our website too and check it out, but it will show um anybody you know

114that we're taking preferential treatment of veterans. So you would apply if you saw that this was out there, you would apply knowing that you're a veteran and you would get that preferential treatment. But again, it is affordable housing for everybody. I want to make that clear. It's not only veterans, but they it is an emphasis on veterans. >> Okay. So um the veterans have a different rental rate than >> they do not. >> Okay. >> No. So the the emphasis on veterans is if you have two applications for a unit at the same time, you you would choose the veteran, >> right? If it's exactly the same, right? I mean, our our hope is that we would have a good mix, right? We'll have a good mix of every that represents the community as a

115whole, but we definitely want to make sure that we have veterans on our on our campus. >> Following up on that, the housing system that we currently have, their applications are reviewed and there are certain points that are assigned for for different things. So like if you're a veteran, you would get so many points. Uh one of my um what I'd like to know is since this project started because I've been watching it come along. >> Oh, good. >> Yeah. As long as you think it's good. >> Having watched what happens in Torington, what happens in Winston a lot. >> Yep. is we end up with the expenses of of the health care, the expenses of all the other things that go along when you add obviously more people to town, right? The educational costs,

116the uh you know, we added money to ambulance two years ago. We added more money to police. I mean, you name the service, the town has to do it. >> So, because you're going to be asking us for a tax abatement. So when when people come and this is going to sound awful, this will sound awful, but when somebody comes to the health center that we've just debated for taxes that I don't, you know, I live in the town and I pay for the ambulance, I pay for fire, I pay for police. >> We do. >> I So you do too? >> I do. But what happens is when people come in that don't come that are not >> Winston >> long-term Winston residents like a veteran that's not a Winston resident or affordable person

117that comes to rent an apartment that's not here. How is that balance the town of Winchester's needs? Because I I watch this I watch it in the housing area. I I I watch how it all consolidates into Torington and Winston with the amounts of apartments that we have and the amount affordables that we have. And no offense to the little tiny towns around us, but when we had social services, people were coming here, you know, because we had it and others do not uh come here because we have affordable where they have 10 units in the small towns around us or five units in small towns around us. So, they're starting their they're trying to build in the small towns around us, but Torington and Winston seem to take a larger share of all that.

118So, is there in your application, are there going to be uh extra points consideration if like for a veteran that has been in Winston for, you know, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, or a person that's been in Winston five years, 10 years, >> David would better answer the Because because you know I think when Winstead is being asked to do an abatement >> of our taxes, right, or whatever taxes will be generated from this depending on what the rental income is, I suppose, right? >> And um and you know, because people that are taking care of it are getting paid money, executive directors are getting paid money, a lot of people that will be in the the the chain of making this thing work will also be getting paid. So why would a Winstead

119taxpayer want to something if it didn't serve Winstead residents. >> I don't know a really great way to answer other than just to point out that I mean we've been operating in this town forever as a nonprofit. So we've never paid taxes >> correct >> to Winstead. So this will be the first time ever the town would be receiving anything um from our from our location. >> Correct. But we had talked about the one that's going up at bachelor school. And in the development of that, we talked about that they would pay regular property taxes like any other person that owned a two family, three family or anything like that. >> I don't know the specifics of that because I'm not I'm not I'm just >> I do know that they said that they would

120pay for fair market value taxes. So >> Right. Fair market value taxes. So is that the case here? >> Well, no. because we're acting for a tax abatement, right? So, >> we didn't but we didn't get what the B >> not yet. I don't know what they're, you know, I don't know what they're going to ask of you. It's a totally different project. So, maybe maybe they're in a position to do that. I don't know. The bachelor school project costs a lot less in state investment than our project costs. So, if I can if I can add add to what Ky's saying here, >> is there a way to add points for >> long time >> res Winston veterans? Not again, we care about all veterans, but we have veterans in need in Winston. >>

121And again, I think what she's saying if we're if we're offering an abatement, >> can we get extra points or put a little priority on Winston veterans, Winston homeless? >> Um, again, I think you're saying what what's in it for us? And while he's coming up, just add to what you're saying also. >> Starting a negotiation here, right? You're looking for >> You must have um you must have projected the taxes your your tax responsibility here. >> Yeah. So, we have all this information. >> So, since it's never paid taxes, let's understand what you're projecting it's going to pay and then ask us for the next step here. >> That was going to be my question, but I got one more thing before we get into the tax stuff. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, you

122know, I came to the first meeting with Jay and and I'm I'm very interested in the project. >> When the homeless shelter came to >> the building, that was a nightmare. >> So, is there or any plans for that ever to happen again in this building? >> No. >> That's never been discussed again. Right. That >> Okay. Because that I would have an issue with that. >> Yeah. No, that's that's never been discussed again. It was a it was a oneanddone situation. They didn't have anywhere to go and Jay came to me and so, you know, you're right. It was a nightmare. >> It was. Yeah. >> But I wanted to throw my two cents in, too. Especially since I'm the liaison for water and sewer. This is actually going to help them because now

123there's more users. That's more water going in and more stuff coming out. So, that's actually going to help water and sewer if this building goes up. And there is no tax abatement on water. by the way. >> So my >> nobody pays. >> So my tax question was obviously you don't pay nothing now. >> Okay. And and what do you presume you're going to have to pay if it's the makers part is not >> No, that'll be >> not tax. It'll be just the just the apartments. >> And then how long are you looking for this? >> I'll let Kevin. >> Hi Kevin. There's a reason I have that. Yeah. Consultants. >> That's why we waited for you, Kevin. >> Members of the board. Good evening. Uh Kevin Grims. Um so I'm a I'm with

124company called Grow America. We're a national nonprofit. We work exclusively on behalf of municipalities and also not not forprofits. And um actually the role that we're we're normally accustomed to playing is is being the intermediary between a municipality and development. uh and and structuring and right sizing a public incentive package including uh tax abatements. In this case, we're working on behalf of a a not for-p profofit, a not for profofit who also happens to be a developer. Um but all all good questions. Uh I guess we start from the basics. This property has always been tax exempt as a as a hospital and a and a not for profofit. This um this is a project I got involved with based upon a request from U Department of Housing uh commissioner who saw how complex this

125development was. It's a very very difficult building, functionally obsolete, physically obsolete. Uh unfortunately it's not historically significant. So you don't raise equity off of the sale of historic credits that you would in many historic buildings. So this is very challenging and as Miss Griffin mentioned um the investment from the state is somewhere between 35 and $40 million. There's a lot of applications be before uh various respective state agencies including Connecticut Housing Finance Agency, Department of Housing, uh Department of Economic and Community Development. It's the latter agency to which we have a application before DECD for community investment fund. Fortunately, there the project has already received $2 million of community investment funding that's funding some of the uh pre-development work. Uh there's a request for an additional $10 million. Um, and so you basically have a

126whole lot of state agencies, and I'm going to get to all your questions, but I just wanted to lay the context. Um, you have a whole lot of state agencies that are reviewing this development, and they all have different requests for financial participation. CHFA, they're going to award the housing tax credits from which private investment in exchange for those tax credits are raised. Department of Housing, they have direct subsidy uh to provide uh gap funding between the production costs and what it can raise in terms of private capital. And then community investment fund, they're investing and funding the uh the the uh the funding gaps for both the affordable housing de the the residential development as well as the commercial maker space. It's interesting the review from various state agencies, Department of Economic Community Development.

127They say, "Well, we see your debt, the amount of money that you're going to raise based upon the income stream because there there will be rents and the rents are averaging a little bit more than $1,000 per unit, maybe close to,00. So the residents that will be able to rent those units will have income somewhere between 40 and $55,000 more or less. It's a tiered affordability. So there's a few different structures. Uh but there is an income stream that needs to be necessary for operating expenses as well as debt service. The debt services will support a loan of approximately $3 million. That's less than 10% of the development cost. So DEEC says, couldn't you support more debt? And so we'd love to support more debt, but we have income restrictions and rent restrictions. So there's

128only so much that we could support. And then the other issue is how much are operating expenses? The operating expenses for typically is $7,000 per unit annually exclusive of real estate taxes. If we paid full real estate taxes, we wouldn't be able to support $3 million of debt. We'd be able to support maybe $2 million of debt. And DEC says, "Hey, you got to support more than debt." So, what do we do? Do we increase rents? Well, then it's no longer as affordable to the residents. we can't decrease the other operating expenses because you want to have a quality facility once it's opened. So for each and every one of the state agencies, the way they look at this is that there's a heck of a lot of resources that we're putting into this or

129considering. What we want to see is that there's an equal level of financial commitment from the town. Now you have limited funding to contribute to affordable housing. So there's no capital resources for which this development is requesting. So the limitation in terms of financial participation has to do with reducing the operating expenses so that the project could support as much debt as possible. Now, I work in the sphere of economic and housing, affordable housing development all over Connecticut, all over the country. And what I hear all the time is that, hey, this is a developer who's a not for-p profofit and it's affordable housing. We want a full 100% tax abatement. And I've always said, no, that's not right. Because there is an income stream and income stream should support some level of taxes because

130Slackman Perez you mentioned the fact that there's services. Yeah, there's services. Um but the development is asking for a partial tax abatement, not a full tax abatement. So what have we proposed? Um, we have tried to increase the dollar amount of debt to lower the dollar amount of state assistance. Um, and I think based upon the restricted rents, the taxes would be a little bit more than $1,000 per unit annually. That that diminishes the amount of debt that the project could support. We're already below 10%. So to go further below that would raise issues with the state because they said all right what financial contribution is the town making. So that is respectfully the request before uh this town is to consider a partial tax abatement what we have proposed is $500 per unit 40

131units times the 500 20,000 and certainly you want to see that increment grow. So, we've proposed a 2% escalator. Uh, how about the term? Uh, this development would be subject to section 42 of the IRS code that governs the housing tax credit program and there's a lot of equity that will be raised off of the housing tax credits. Um, in exchange, there's rent restrictions for a period of 30 years. And typically what the investors who purchase the tax credits want is le some level of visibility with respect to the taxes because they have to protect their investment. So they're looking for visibility or predictability with respect to the taxes because they know that the rents can only increase by one or two%. So they're asking for the taxes, whatever it's established at initially, to increase

132by a similar amount, 1 to 2%. So what we've proposed is $20,000 annually with a 2% escalator for 30 years. Why 30 years? That's the term of the affordability restrictions of the of the residential units that will be affordable for that period of time. So the investors and the lenders they expect they what they're looking for is to have co-terminus have terms that are uh aligned between the the debt 30-year financing as well as the rent restrictions and the pilot. I think I covered the questions but I'd be have to answer anymore. >> Well that covered the what you're asking for. So the questions as far as can points be granted or can preferential decisions be made towards Winchester veterans and Winchester yes affordable needs. >> Uh and um all of all of these because

133you're using federal housing tax credits and the Connecticut Housing Finance Agency is administering on behalf of the federal government. You have to adhere to fair housing standards. Um so in all of these cases you you can't provide preferential uh there there can't be preferential treatment to the residents of the town in which these uh affordable housing developments are are u uh are are built and placed. >> So not even a percentage of the units can can be >> no to violate fair housing uh uh uh code. >> So so what if we abaded the units that had when said residents go into them and not abate the others. >> We wouldn't know the percentage of the units that would be because it it would uh these are typically done on a lottery basis. So that

134you you have applicants and then th those those applications are reviewed based upon income limitations and rent limitations. But I if if the board and I and I think what Candi's asking um on that particular one is and and I and I I understood where you were trying to align the 30 year with I think every year if you go down the road that Perez was going down is that there's a census that gets created right and if 40 of the units have 40 Winstead residents in it >> they will be resceive there. >> Well, let's look at schools. Let's just go right to schools. They haven't raised the ECS money since 2013. Hasn't kept up with inflation. So in your twobedroom, let's say you put in one or two kids and they go into

135our school system. The state hasn't followed with the money. And so now those of us that are here in other neighborhoods are now contributing to that financial cost. I I guess because you're here, you know, if you live here, you understand our finances. you understand that we just had a close to a 7% increase in taxes, 1.9 mil increase and last year was like a 9.8 mil increase, right? Uh we've recovered from where we were. So we but we use fund balance this year to be able to do some of the capital products because we still have roads not done. We still have public works needs. We have police department needs. I mean we have Pearson school has no capital and they need a roof right now and like it cost us probably a million

136with and the other property uh taken care of by the state. So when we look at when I look at when I look at the issues of where the money is going to come from you know and and um you know I'll be out there where you are when next budget season hits. They won't be. They're going to have to figure out how to do all this because there's a nice crash course coming and and in this March with all the monies that are that are out there. So, yeah, we would get $20,000 more from this development, right? So, that you could say that the town's getting $20,000 more from this development, but two kids in that building take that away, you know? Uh so I I guess that's where the dilemma is. It's it's

137and the dilemma is because it's federal, because everybody can come from everywhere. What happens in the taxpayer in Winchester. So, your maker spaces and stuff. I want to get to that one, too. The community college had a space over there for the business entrepreneurial center. Are they would that be a duplication of >> It's just too small and inefficient. >> Yeah. So, it becomes a bigger space. So, it becomes like an extension of the college or an extension of Gilbert. Um, we also have a building across the street that has uh, you know, shared offices and at working spaces. So then then you do that part and but that's all covered underneath the um you know underneath the health center or whatever the new name will be nonprofit piece of it. >> Right. So you

138know the you're projecting a certain amount of utilization and a certain amount of enhancement to the community you know from from that space. And I mean time will tell that right it's a projection. It's not like a It's not like a a definite, but it's a projection. So, when we look at all this, I think that's what I'm trying to wrap my head around is is how do we, you know, how how, you know, do we need more housing? I mean, I I talk to there's um older widows that I talk to, you know, because I also work with the housing board over, you know, the housing authority in town, plus the carriage maker housing place there. And so there's this always this discussion because because it can't keep up because the federal guidelines and

139the state guidelines restrict the rent and they restrict the rent. So then it restricts everything else down the line. Just like you said, you know, you can't you can't keep up. But we're not keeping up, but we're taking in, you know, where the funnel comes here. You know, the funnel comes here. So, how do we do this? I mean, how does the town of Winchester provide services and and you afford what you have to do and we afford what we have to do. And I think that's what the dilemma is. It's always the dilemma, right? It's always about the money, right? And it's it's not about it's usually not about anything else. It's usually about the the dollar. It's got to come from somewhere. Where's it coming from? Right? And even though you pour the

140money into it, you know, say put some money in and stuff like that, it's still not, you know, like if we had a business come in, right? We had a second hmat come in, you know, and they talked themselves down in town and we could tax their machines, we can tax their building, etc., etc., then then all that money that can pour in produces, you know, something for, you know, everyone. Um, so I think that's what the dilemma is. You know that's really the hard dilemma here. >> It's always the dilemma of any public institution that that doesn't that is exempt from taxes. What is the extent to which they they generate services that the town has to absorb? >> I I I guess another way of looking at it is the level of state

141investment that is uh being uh considered to invest in the town. Is it is it investing in our town to invest in our town or is it investing in the town so that the regional people can have a place? Well, the uh I I I I've there's a lot of projects that I look at throughout Connecticut and throughout the country and very few state very few projects that I have been involved with have had state five different state representatives come and visit the site based upon what this development is projected to do because it's really attractive to the state not only based upon the fact that uh there's a shortage of affordable housing, but you have a mixeduse element of it with the maker space and the job training component that is enormously attractive and

142you don't see anything else like this uh throughout the state of Connecticut. That's why the state is looking and and it's a very challenging site. Um it's it's highly underutilized for a reason because private capital in and of itself uh is not going to follow this development because of the financial challenges. So if not the use for housing and job training maker space, it would be very difficult to attract the investment to redevelop this property. And it could be a property that and it the the site it or the property itself. you're you're wondering how long you can continue to operate it without investment because of the difficulties with the HVAC system and everything else with the roof and everything else. So, it's it's very limited time that it could be habitable, >> right? But

143you're looking at two other ones right across the street, three other ones right over there. >> Another one down that end. Same thing. All underwater investors. And we're looking at schools with the same issues that you're facing >> and investor but investors won't come with their own money because they're all upside down. >> Everything like your building's upside down. Those are upside down. Meaning the investor if they poured all the money in there that they needed to fix up the thing would could never recover the investment back over time. >> Marino, >> how many of the 40, how many are the two bedrooms? I think I'm gonna let him answer so he gets it exact. Yeah. >> I mean, I think >> I think there's >> from, you know, from a from a school load

144perspective, it's the two bedrooms that would So, there's eight of those, right? >> Yeah. >> Of the 40. >> And of the 40, how many of those would be bedrooms? >> As many as we could get. >> Okay. And that's not guaranteed, you know, two bedrooms that people could squeeze in or what have you, but just to give if you were building 42 bedrooms or three bedrooms, then it would be a much potentially a much bigger load on the school, >> right? >> And so, so out of the 40 units also, because I I followed this years ago when I started, too, and we were told, oh, this is going to be veteran housing. This is going to be for veterans and whatnot. So, out of the 40 units, none are designated for veterans. >>

145Well, it was never a veteran. You can't you it would limit our ability to raise funding if we said it was only for veterans, right? So there's an emphasis on veterans, right? We have the veterans healthcare that's going to remain on site. It would be a very attractive place. We have um Ron Welps, a commissioner of veterans affairs for the state of Connecticut, is placing somebody there to do veterans benefits once this starts. So it's a very attractive place, right, to to have a veteran live. But again, we can advertise it the same way you would advertise any affordable housing project. We have our website. It's just a matter of who applies. Ideally, we would have a good >> So, so to answer the question, none are designated for veterans >> or all dependific. Yeah.

146>> Um, just to kind of put a little thought starter out for the rest of us sitting up here. Um, so we have a piece of property here that has never paid taxes. It may be abandoned in 10 years if they can't do something with it because the cost to keep it going is eventually going to drown it, >> right? >> Um it's going to be for us it's a balance of how much is it really going to cost us to have the um housing part of it, right? Um, and you're asking us to commit the town to a $600,000 investment essentially, right? Is that $20,000 or that amount cut in half over 30 years is we're investing $600,000 into this into this project over 30 years. Um, so for us sitting up here, it's

147well, let's never pay taxes. If we don't do something with it, it likely will never pay taxes. It'll and it'll be one of the list of properties we have to try to figure out what to do with added to the list of the ones you already talked about, Candy. Um but I think we need to really understand what the you know what the school impact's going to be and all the other services and and you know can we afford to do it or can we afford not to do it? That's the other thing. So my question is um if we don't commit to the the 20,000 or a third a year, say we cut that in half or a third, um what does that affect? How does that affect your funding? Is it a definite

148no that you will not get funding if there's no tax abatement? Or is it >> going to help you get funing? But it doesn't mean you're not going to get it. >> These are very competitive funds through various state agencies. So it just I I I think decreases the competitiveness of the applications for funding for the project and it puts 35 million or more at risk of not being >> it's pretty sad how the state works because they want to give all this money to a nonprofit but then they're going to hurt the town in the same point. You said earlier that the average income of these people would be 40 to 50,000. Um, how are you going to is that the number that it takes in your mind to approve somebody to rent? >>

149No, it's based upon federal regulations which affordability is tied to the area median income. The area median income is for the labor market area. So in in this region county the area median income is a lot higher than say the median income in in Winston. So it qualifies as affordable within the region but uh those those rents are still pretty respectable rents and folks still need to earn a have a a decent job to earn 40 to 60,000 to afford it. I mean, I think there's a, you know, having 40 residents that have to prove that amount of income to afford these units is is not a bad thing for us to have uh these people in town. I think that's a plus >> if we're understanding that right. So, they have to make a

150minimum of 40 to $50,000 a year to qualify for >> adjusted for household size depending on that unit size. If carriage maker places adjusted like that whereas Chestnut Grove and Lauret are not there some units not filled because of the income levels. >> So I mean if you look at it $20,000 is not a lot of money in our budget right? I mean and we're not getting anything now. So, we're getting an extra $20,000 and then it's going to go up 2% for 30 years, which I figured out to be 400 bucks for the first year. Then it goes up from there. >> But to Candy's point, if out of eight of those apartments, there's four kids to hit. >> I didn't get to finish that. But that's what I'm saying. And like Paul said

151earlier, selecting Marino, that we have to weigh out. I don't have a problem with doing something like this if it's not going to cost the town money. So, if we can weigh out that the $20,000 is going to be able to afford the services that you need that cost the town, then I would be okay with that. That's >> Well, I mean, we we know what is it 19,000 per kid. Is that the number? Is that I recall it last year? 19 or 20 something like that per kid. >> Yeah. So I mean, you know, eight units have eight kids or 16 kids or whatever the number is. Um, we we get killed in that number. >> It's the final unit makes it it's usually >> one one child for every 10 to 15 units.

152So we're talking about three or four net new students. >> The question is, is the enrollment increasing? The school enrollment increasing? >> Yeah. >> Well, we have an unusual 7 through 12 system. the numbers of kids matter. But anyway, what's um so there's data about the cost of services a town has per house, right? There there's some data in the state. Uh we want to stay in the state. um services services per house like when I pay my taxes um do I cover all the services I get from the town or does the town able to use that money to pay for other things and some houses you know what is what is that number what you know like long time ago like 15 years ago Salem Connecticut needed a house to be assessed at

153$626,000 to pay for the services and the cost of the And if it was assessed any less, then the town was upside down again. Uh so so what's what's the what's the per unit cost of town services? That would be interesting to know. >> It would be. But then we got to look at it this way. >> To achieve a net zero effect for everything, right? >> Look for the standard single family home who might have two or three children. You know, we're drilling down on >> paying enough taxes to support those. I >> say we're drilling down on student counts and and and things like that, but there's so many houses in this town that pay taxes that don't have kids either. So, I mean, taxes are the law of large numbers. It gets

154spread along a lot of people. Again, we have to look at this project and go, we like the project. Do we like the project? Right? There's a lot of pluses to it. developing that building into something or that site into something before it becomes our next empty building that we're going what do we do with um the revenue that it will generate that I guess it's it's really a matter of how do we feel about giving up half the potential tax revenue for 30 years >> the present value of that is 300 300 is a very small sacrifice for attracting 35 million in investment from the and another 10 million of private dollars. >> There's 10 million of private investors in this. >> Well, depending on u the between the equity raised and the debt

155is 10 million. Yes. >> So 300,000 net uh loss to revenue as opposed to 45 million investment. It's pretty darn good leverage ratio for the town. Kevin, just on that, and I love math. Um, what did you what and I know it's hard to to call it out, right? And and and and so you obviously got a $30 million investment into the residential portion. It's never going to assess out at $30 million. Where did you put the assessment roughly or the value of the residential portion of it? I I came up I I brought it down to 20 million which then took 70% of that which put me at 14 million which then gave me 14,000 which gave me a tax value of 408 on what the residential space could be worth. But I wanted

156to just check your math. What do you What do you think the residential side of this is going to >> rand those numbers? But >> I mean, if you we're we're directionally I mean, we're 100 grand off, which on millions isn't a ton. So, you're probably 20 million. You probably came in at 15 million. I can run the math, but um >> and we we >> Oh, you got >> Yeah, we we can run those numbers, but the short of it is >> CHFA and Department of Housing if there's not a considerable partial tax abatement provided by the town, those funds are not going to be awarded. So the it's the residential section that becomes taxable in a nonprofit situation, right? Is that's and and that's that tax is based on the value of the

157building. I just want to be clear. I understand how this works. Yes. The assessment of the building that portion of the building is what is taxed. >> Well, that's what would be just similar to your house. So your house is worth x amount of dollars. Then it's you have this 7. So, does the market does the market fluctuate on that portion of the building throughout the 30 years? Will it appreciate or >> you know, is it get re-evaluated as part of our reval all the time? >> Of course. >> Well, it it it would if if it wasn't going the route of, you know, this particular project and it was just going to be an apartment complex. Every five years that building would be reassessed. >> I'm just asking because this is a unique situation.

158It would just be >> it would be reassessed, but it would be ab So the value could go up or down. >> Well, if the value went up, we'd still be abating only 50%. Right? >> In other words, let's say, round numbers, it's what' you say it was uh $1,000 a unit. >> They're going to rent for a >> No, I think the total tax was worth $40,000. >> They wanted So let's say each unit was $1,000 in tax, right? But that building appreciates over the next five years. I'm just, you know, so suddenly that 1,000 is now making these numbers up. 1,200. Now we're giving back still 50% but we're giving back 50% of the,200, not 50% of the thousand. Is that correct? Am I >> as the market fluctuates, we would >> No,

159there it's a set 20,000. >> Yeah. proposing is the tax. >> So it's not 50% of the taxed value. You want to you want a higher number in this paper% >> of those taxes with respect to the lenders and the investor. >> Why did you send this to us >> is extremely important. There can't be volatility in those taxes because there is a very limited amount by which that income stream. >> There is volatility volatility in the value of the building though, right? Either up or down. >> No, because related to that limited income stream. >> Yeah. And that's why we propose that there be a escalator of 2%. 2% consistent with the expected potential increase in the income stream annually. >> Yeah. We're just trying this is a very unique >> Yeah. >> situation

160you have. So, we're just trying to be clear that we understand exactly >> how it all works and what you're asking. I I mean we know what you're asking for, but how how it all works in general. >> I mean, when I sat here when you first sat down like how's a nonprofit paying taxes anyway? So, you know, we had to get to that point, >> right? Right. >> Yeah. And >> the other thing is, you know, the other thing I go back to is that there are people that are working as executive directors, etc., not you specifically, but in in this in the nonprofit world, there are people that do get paid, you know, to do jobs and to do things like that, and they have to generate income to pay those things. So,

161these apartments have to generate the income to pay that, >> right? So, when we uh, you know, so the abatement is is also well, it's not part of that. Is it something else? It sounds to me the abatement is what's required for them to get the state. >> Yes. >> Funding that >> they've applied for. >> Yeah. Really simple. >> So if we're going to get if we're going to attract 35 $40 million investment in this piece of property, we have to be willing to give up 20 grand >> a year. 30 years >> for 30 >> year >> or or we have to agree that we will accept 20,000 is a better way to look at it. >> Basically better way to look at it. >> Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry because it's math and

162you know me in math. So, you know, we obviously differ and and I'm going to use their numbers. So, you know, they they projected out, correct me if I'm wrong, roughly if this didn't take an abatement, it would it would spun off about $300,000 $300,000 a year in in tax revenue to the town. So, you're not giving up whatever number you said because it was very low. If it was $300,000, you're giving up $280,000. We I don't $300,000. We That That's not a number that we came up with. >> Oh, I thought you had stated 300. I heard 300. >> That was for 30 years. >> It was the totality of the Yeah, it was a year. >> The way I look at things, you got a $30 million investment into the residential, right? That's

163never going to value out to what this building, the residential side is what it's going to be. So, I literally then said, "Okay, I'm going to take a a subtraction of $10 million. I'm going to say the residential side of that building will be worth 20 million bucks." Right? So, then $20 million is the is the value. Take 70%, you 14 million. You times that at the current mill rate of 29.17 and that roughly spuns off $48,380 >> divided by 40 units. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's how we've been talking about it is the unit count, right? >> Or if you wanted to do Yeah. I never break this stuff, but that's at a very >> the case project would be able to uh not even borrow. They would be underwater without debt. >> Well, true.

164>> And we're just trying to demonstrate that we that the project could support three million in debt, which is less than 10% of the cost. >> Now, on the flip side, and and I wouldn't be doing my economic job with this. So, you have a $35 million investment. You have anywhere from 40 to 80 to 120 new people in your town that need to shop, get gas. What kind of investment will that create in terms of new store opening up, new restaurants opening up? It's it's it's the the magic eightball. Nobody knows that, but obviously >> disposable income. But I think what we're really not embracing is the benefit of having the maker space and providing train job training for those that are going to avail themselves the services of the maker space. That is

165what is the distinguishing factor of this project that separates it from everything else in terms of uh having a a very uh respected team that is offering job training services through that maker space. So, is there going to be a cost for the maker space >> like for job trading >> per for per for per res? >> Yeah, I can talk a little about that. So, >> can you just come up because that mic's not going to pick you up back there and our residents listen at home should hear it. >> Hi, I'm Steve Longre. Um, as Chris mentioned, I'll be the maker space director um once we're up and running. I've worked on two projects in the past. One of the Bergkshire is called the Bergkshire Innovation Center up in Pittsville. another one up

166in Randall, Vermont called Vermont uh Technical College. It became the Vermont State University. They had a small manufacturing enclave um called the Collaborator um basically was a privatized army project. They dumped about $12 million into equipment training and we were able to start doing workforce engagement throughout the state of Vermont. Um both of those projects kind of came uh came away with some some learning opportunities. One was that the need for workforce development in rural communities like greater Lichfield are can be dramatically improved when you have these kinds of uh innovation centers uh maker spaces uh those kinds of projects usually you hear about them in terms of uh schoolbased projects. This is a little bit more ambitious. This is actually going to be in addition to 3D printers and laser cutters and things like

167that. Um a small machine shop, a woodworking shop to support some of the local industries that are already involved in in woodworking. Uh teaching new technologies like automation. Um the ability to look at uh very specific uh industry partnerships, industry uh sector partners in things like construction uh the companies that'll be working with the the center. Um and then the engagement part with the local schools. So we've already engaged with Gilbert school. Um we're uh engaged with uh explorations. We are talking with people regionally beyond just uh the K through 12 schools. Uh Oliver Walcott as an example at Advance as an example. We're looking at the how Winston could be centralized like a crossroad hub center within Lichfield for um projects with University of Connecticut. uh as far down as uh uh Yale New

168Haven uh we're engaging with groups like University of Massachusetts even MIT to create kind of really a center area where we'll be able to excel in some things that are very specific to workforce development in and around Winston. So when we're looking at things like helmet, aviation aerospace at advance doesn't have the ability because they're stretched thin currently to to be able to engage in aerospace manufacturing training. But Hmet needs jobs. They need people in those positions. We can act as a facilitator facilitator for that because we're engaging with uh CT state tonsus and their nextgen manufacturing center which is a NSF funded nationally recognized center. We're going to draw from their capabilities, their their experience, and their funding stream to be able to bring some of that funding here to support our operations to

169train students in things that are related to advanced manufacturing like AI. And that's kind of the component that I'm bringing into this. This is not just a maker space. This is going to be an advanced manufacturing training center where we can draw on CT state's incumbent workforce training funds administered through CCAT, Connecticut center for advanced technologies. They're involved in this as a adviser but also as a funding mechanism so that what we can do on that nonprofit side is enhance CT State Northwestern's capability to deliver to deliver training to deliver capabilities to manufacturers as members of this maker space as sponsors of this maker space. Um and then we can extend that further into the community as a value to the schools because >> I also think it's important to bring up you know you

170guys veterans a lot. We we do all the veterans events. We go to vet vets rock at Moheaggan. So something we have a direct connect in to the local veterans in the area and Winston ironically has a 10% veteran population which is higher than any other town in the state of Connecticut. Um which which statistically people wouldn't think, right? You would think it would down be on the shore with electric boat and things but we have have a large population here. But Steve also um has skillbridge which is a a military program of active military coming into civilian life, a program to upskill them and teach them um skills that they can come out and get a job once they're back in civilian life. So you ask about um you know what what percentage of

171of the you know the housing units may have veterans but we have again a direct path to train and upskill and and work with these veterans which is important right um for that piece I think >> is job training open to anybody >> yeah so that's so within a maker spacebased model it's generally a nonprofit that you know makes enough money to operate um and you engage the public by having a monthly fee so it's A it's a a gym club for the mind for training. Um there's usually a sponsored component with companies. So if a company like um Sterling wants to teach basic skills in and around press metal centering, we can do some component with that. We work with a college to develop that curriculum and then we host that. But in our

172situation, because we're a maker space, entrepreneurship center, we've got a veteran component, community component that has access to those those facilities, we're we're immediately teaching that uh collegiate level training, that private corporate level training to anybody that wants to participate. That's the uniqueness of this model. That was one of the things that we took away from the Birkers and in rural Vermont. and we see being duplicated in other areas where you're trying to to gain um a foothold in community and teach manufacturing skills. Well, just give those skills, make them available if you want to develop curriculum that has certificates qualifications. You work with your local college to to create that accredation. And so that's what we're working with at Advance on. We're working with RDA, we're working with CT State to kind of figure

173out that component out. Um but anybody will have access to it. If you join the maker space, you have access to the 3D printers. You have access to the to the CAD stations. You have access to the entrepreneurship center, the the co-working networking space. You can use the the copers or you can use the conferencing room. You'll have certain amounts of of limitations, but you'll have all that access. If you want to take a class on uh advanced ceramics, well, you know, we'll do the pottery making, but we might extend that into where where could ceramics actually work in this region where you've got uh you know, high wear tool tool use at BD for making injection molded parts. Those are the things that we're looking at trying to do. We want to extend the

174capabilities of what the colleges are are illprepared to be able to do because they're also under budget pressures. We see this across the state. Um, so that component is what I'm focused on. Um, duplicating what we're able to do up in Burgers is, duplicating what we're able to do in in upstate Vermont and that we're seeing being developed at colleges like MIT and Yukon and and uh other other places so that we can do that in a smaller fashion, kind of narrow. We're not trying to do everything. We have a few things that we're very very good at with the goal that veterans that come out of the services that have as an example I'm having a conversation with one of the faculty at CT State um that Northwestern we're developing a curriculum path because

175CT State Northwestern does some stuff with NASA currently in the drone arena. Well, there's now a very focused effort worldwide obviously US military to start learning how to 3D print drones. Well, what happens to that workforce when they come out of the service? How do you retool that capability into things that are actually productive for industry? We want to start developing that pathway here. Same thing with AI. How do we take nent companies that have AI capabilities in Lynch, but there are a few and teach people how to access those in broader ways, not just in cheating on tests or in creating curriculum for students. How do we actually help industry start to experiment and and learn from them? And so teaching the veteran component, teaching active part-time active duty, you know, guards and and

176reser, they could live at the center, too. There's no reason why they couldn't apply for those apartments if their income limitations apply. Now, they'd have access and job training capabilities to launch their own ventures perhaps or to be able to work at existing companies across the state. And we don't see this as like transitional housing, but there's certainly the probability that if somebody comes into the center, learns skills that are highly valuable and high demand and has advantages that veterans may have or advantages that just, you know, in in general, people can acquire through hard work that they could start businesses with in the town. >> So, what about a um a resident of town, you know, someone who graduates high school, not sure what they want to do, and they want to come to

177you for job training? I presume it's open to them first of all and secondly absolutely >> what does it cost them to participate >> so again within a maker space model you have access to the center for 50 bucks a month and we're looking at that pricing model it could be 40 bucks a month that gives you access to uh the opportunity to learn various tools you're going to have to go to courses you're going to have to get you know certified and not cutting off your fingers like we had in job class um once you've got those minimum skills you have the ability ability now to either work through that curriculum with a college in a lab environment more hands-on not online learning like we normally see but maybe that class will be an

178MIT sponsored class and hands-on component will be in the center we're having some conversations with MIT about that right now how do we how do we develop a pricing scheme around that well CT states want to be involved in that or states have some some authority in that for acredation purposes we have to figure those things out but distance learning where you're doing hands-on component in a maker space or an innovation center. That's a proven proven concept. How do we have companies sponsor that? Well, maybe you go you become an intern at a company like a helmet and they're now qualified after six months to do incumbent workforce training and that gets funded by the state. So, that's kind of the pathway. >> Do you see most of your residents are going to be participating?

179We're going to encourage participation. We can't force it upon them. But one of those criteria when we start looking at, you know, how do you qualify as a point system? Are you an in in town resident? Well, I don't know how we're going to accommodate the the question of do you want to participate in the on the on-site programming as a qualifier, if we even can, but it's certainly something that we're putting out there in our marketing to say, look, this is something that's never existed before. It addresses a lot of the needs that we discovered at both academic and and consortium based uh workforce training centers, technology centers that there's a lack of affordable housing around them, a lack of accommodation to towns that are rurally characterized where people aren't stuck in the city.

180How do we attract people to that with a notion that well you belong to a maker space if you live here or if you don't you're part of the community in that maker space and you can gain access to technology that you normally wouldn't see at a high school because you can't get in there. You're not cried or at a library because they can't afford it or you can't get at a college even local because their maker space or their entrepreneurship center is very tiny and they're likewise illf funed. We have about a half million dollars plus of fairly advanced equipment that we're going to be able to host. That equipment is going to be community accessible for the cost of being able to operate that maker space component, maintain and operate those technologies. >>

181So you said you have two other locations. You did these Pittsfield, Mass and where was it? Rutland, Vermont. >> Uh Randolph, Vermont. >> Oh, Randolph, Vermont. Okay. Um are both and both those programs are still up and running and successful. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and and what they were able to actually do. We we came in I came in as the operations manager at the first innovation center. Um and in about 18 months we had landed 20 tools. We built a VR center. We built uh a capability to do um learning with in collaboration with CT Connecticut Center for Advanced Technologies. We did some defense focused advanced manufacturing training. Um and now they after I left to go to Vermont, they qualify for federal EDA grant and then they started really, you know, engaging

182with lots of companies where the workforce training component in Massachusetts really kind of aligned with what we put in place. We did the same thing up in Vermont where we were focused mostly on advanced manufacturing in the 3D printing metal space for army related projects for for defense defense applications. But that we saw about 180 companies come through within the first 24 months. We landed 30 tools. We trained the faculty. We trained local industry on what was possible. Um, and they started doing work in advanced composits and advanced uh metal 3D printing for aviation satellite development, but they also touched on like turbine development, wind turbines and solar photo facilities. And we did we did educational outreach. We worked with local schools where there was three students and one faculty trying to learn how to

183teach advanced manufacturing engineering and we put curriculum together for them. So we saw that path and the takeaways when I heard about this project were very very similar except we had veterans focused and housing on site as well as entrepreneurship and those two centers the virtues had entrepreneurship involved. Central Vermont doesn't Burlington has entrepreneurship. Um so this is ideal because we have an active entrepreneurship group. Um, CDC Northwestern's well known for that and we're going to be able to provide not only the the place for that, but also some office space and the innovation expansion space in the basement of the the 1957 building. >> Just I was curious. >> Let's get back to the abatement. That's why we're here for a program. Well, >> one thing I do want to say about that is

184basically you're a trained school. No, I mean I mean I'm sitting here listening to it all and it I understand it all, you know, because I come from an educational background, but it just sounds to me like the the trade school, the Lincoln text, the kind of thing that comes there and it's like this the housing is like a dorm, right? You know, because if you're going to live there, then you go to your training. It's almost like you're developing a school. We're hopeful that people that will live there at all ages will avail themselves of this. I mean, I I look upon it after having talked to lots and lots of veterans, um, lots of people outside the services. If you could live at a place, have an affordable apartment, and you could have

185access to technology you're not going to see in high school, you're going to not see at a college because it's not bleeding edge, but things that are unique that would give you an edge in either starting a business or potentially getting a better job. And you could practice with that stuff. You could make your first things, your first widgets, maybe start a small business. Would you enjoy that? Would that be useful? Do you see value in that? And unanimously people say that's that'd be wonderful. But it's not a structured school. We're not looking to become structured. We'll bring in people from outside organizations that will do that. >> You also have the federal guidelines where you can't guarantee that these people are going to be in there, right? the fair housing and all that kind

186of stuff and where people come from because I know people are just looking places, >> you know, they're not necessarily looking for >> and and if they're not, then that's okay. There's a broader community. >> So, getting back to the abatement um and I'm glad you had a chance to tell us about this really because it I mean I I kind of like this project. I like the idea of >> that's a difference from this project >> of hosting development project >> of our community being able to host this. Actually, I think it's a benefit for the town and we're always looking for unique uh things to bring to our community. Um, and as I look at the investment of $20,000 a year, as you pointed out, you know, in the case of our budget,

18720,000 is not really destroying our budget one way or the other. These people will also have cars. There'll be some revenue from that. And you know the revenue piece I think uh I think the abatement makes sense at this point. Um my my thinking anyway I think uh to invest in this this um property which again if we don't we don't know what it becomes. I don't know how many more years you can keep it floating the way it is. So >> probably not even a year. Um, and we're attracting a nearly $40 million investment here. Um, so I for one I like this project. >> Is it 30 years or nothing? The previous board uh gave a tax abatement to a business. I think it was five years. His plans didn't pan out. I

188would hate to see us give you guys a 30-year abatement and then a couple years down the road you guys sell out or or collapse. >> Can't but so is the abatement specific to you? If if God forbid something happened and in four years you guys were no longer around, somebody else acquired a property, are are we on the hook to them for 27 more years, 25 more years? specific to the residential component of this. >> Okay. Because it's being tied to, you know, the federal low income tax credits which are all >> it all ties into the 30-year, you know, >> yeah, I don't think that's questions ever, >> but they're being funded by your component is being funded separately from the housing. >> My proposed by the federal government, >> right? >> So,

189and significant state investment, >> right? So, that's funded on its own. The housing is different. The housing is is what comes from. >> So So I guess my question is what's the bottom line? When do you got to have an answer? >> I'm a bottom line kind of guy. >> 10 to 15 minutes. >> Yeah, pretty much 10 to 15 minutes. What is the opening schedule if you get the agreement from us and all your other and and God bless you dealing with so many different state agencies in one project? >> Yeah, it's not easy, right? That getting the money from what we got a lot of support. But assuming you get through all of these hoops, when do you hope to open this? >> We'll break ground in the spring and 18 months after

190that would be the goal to open. That's that's that's the schedule that we're on. >> Are construction jobs required to be local? Any percentage of them like they did at Torington High School? >> To high school, they had uh they had internships and had to have so many people local that were hired. >> It probably all to be state approved contractors, right? >> Yes. But could you to Squan Perez's point if the abatement you know goes through which isn't tying the rental units and it's could you tie that we're offering this with consideration that local uh vendors would be um >> process >> preferred preferred selection >> they may not have the choice >> you'd have to be on the list >> so we have to put an RFQ what we construction manager based by

191their guidelines, right? And then then there's a process we have to go through to conduct to put the RFQ out for any of the people doing. >> But when you when you go and so when you go out to an RFQ or an RFP for the electrician, for the drywaller, you could say that there is a local preference being given to select that vendor that I know you >> it's state approved. It's state >> approved. You got to be on the list. Yeah. Bonded the whole bit. You can't just be >> we have very few probably local contractors that can handle a project at that size. >> Right. >> I can say this up in the Birkers once the project was completed we then went to local sourcing for the punch list of things that

192happened afterwards. >> So when we wanted to put a land a new piece of equipment we had to hire an electrician and we had to get that electrician trained or qualified in doing work with German engineered machines. So there is a component that's already built into the maker space workforce training part because we are going to be looking at technologies that that aren't common to to look at construction related applications and and machining applications. How do we how do we work locally because we do want to build those local we want to showcase that. >> In essence the makers thing is is a job opportunity also. >> Yep. Yeah. We have to employ people. We're looking at internships. looking at the ability for that to be an on-ramp to college or trades direct into trades.

193>> I think that uh we would be interested in if we do the abatement that it's specifically for NCHIC and then it at some point you sell the property for whatever reason or close down and sell the property. >> Well, like David said, if someone bought the property, they would have to stay within the same restrictions that we do, right? So whether the owner changed hands or not, the rules would still apply, >> but they don't. >> But we're doing this abatement because of all of your funding needs is really what it comes down to. And that person may not have the same funding needs. So I don't think we necessarily want to >> or the investor who buys the credits, invests equity in exchange for credits, they have to stay in ownership for 15

194years as does the general partner who is part of the ownership structure. I think this is coming out because the um the health center uh was a taxable thing and then they sold it right off the bat and there goes our taxes and now they want to be a nonprofit. So I think that's what everybody's >> um >> let's stay away from that right now. >> No, I think it just has to do that. >> Honestly, they're looking for me to call them tomorrow. That's the answer. The answer was last Friday. It's an awful lot of information to swallow. >> I'm not ready to >> I'm not really ready either. I mean, I'm not saying it's a bad project. You know, I think it's good. It certainly could help, but I'm not ready to answer

195it either. >> Yeah. We're just trying to put in as to be responsive to the state to demonstrate readiness as much as we can. So let's say component of race. >> So we're talking about our component of this is are we willing to give up half the potential taxes for 30 years. That's the basic question we have to answer. >> But it's more than that Paul >> because are we willing to give up the Winston Memorial Hospital building because if they leave it it's going to go downhill quick and it's going to be a big isore in the town. >> Downhill. >> Well, they're going to put 35 million into it and make it look good. >> Well, but that's what I'm saying. I'm saying, are we are we willing to give up half the

196revenue so that they'll invest $40 million? >> $20,000 is has nothing to do with anything. >> So, I mean, >> I don't see it as what revenue we're giving up, right? >> I look at is $20,000 enough to cover the town's cost >> of them going in there. Do we get 20,000? Is $20,000 enough of pure public services? No. But you're uh I I think what really should be taken consideration is a value added benefit of what an innovation center and a maker space provides. It's an economic development initiative. >> Correct. >> To to uh assist local personnel and the employers because the employers really need this in terms of enhancing the job training for their prospective uh employment base because they can't get qualified individuals. You hear it all the time in terms of

197the employers, especially manufacturers can't get the the skilled labor that they need. >> I've been in manufacturing for 35 years, so I >> know what the health problem is. I've worked for Dimax Corporation. We have 400 try to keep 400 employees just in Torington alone. >> Um, that's why when you tell me we have over a half a million dollars worth of equipment, I mean, one good CNC center. >> Todd, are you ready to move? >> A half a million to a million dollars, >> right? We're talking basic, >> right? You're going to need investment afterwards. >> I uh just looking at the the the particular funding source. Obviously, we know you you went out to SIFT. Their application was due Friday. You can let them know, you know. Um >> no, the application went

198in June. They were willing to give us time to to further our support. Okay. So, we could make a better case by their decision on September 27th. lowinccome housing tax credits. When are you guys applying for that? >> Because you're not doing the fif what were you you're doing the eight 8%. What are you guys What was it? >> 4%. Okay. And that's rolls, right? That's anytime. It's not the one that's due in February. >> Like as we speak that we're in regular talks with DO, CHFA. That's all happening as we're talking to you now. The only hard deadline we had, the first deadline we had was CIF who gave us the opportunity to provide more information by their decision making date at their board meeting on the 27th. >> Just out of curiosity, because

199this one popped into my head, just why only go for the low-income housing at 4% when there are richer programs out there? Just just so you know, taxpayer comes in right heavily financed. Hey, why didn't they go for as as other organizations? higher percent we would, but due to the regulations and things for that 9% tax credit, we we don't qualify for that. >> You don't think so? >> I I know so. >> I mean, looking at your income, >> the state publishes a qualified allocation plan every year. >> Yeah. >> Based upon their priorities of what types of affordable housing they want to support. >> Uh, and they have a scoring system related to that allocation plan. We've scored this. It falls short of scoring enough to get a competitive allocation of 9%. >>

200Okay. >> I mean, you have all these things >> I just look at other agencies and prior where they've ended up scoring, you know, >> and where this project does offer that uniqueness of that maker space area. >> I can't tell you the amount of avenues we have gone down to try to to try to find uh funding opportunities. We have is a really good funding stack at this point. It took us almost four years to get where we're at now. >> It's a 13 source capital structure, >> right? >> 13 different funding sources, >> right? >> And if this was the last piece, right? This was the piece the other funders said, "All right, we've got 13 funding sources willing to put into this project in Winston. Now, we need Winston to say they're

201willing to support that project, too." That was the last piece that came in to us as the other funders have, you know, we've aligned the other funders. So, that's where we're at. >> And you're confident you're you've secured the $30 million >> plus it as confident as one can be without getting the final >> without the checks, >> right? You know, I mean, >> well, it's being able to show the readiness of all the components are in place. I get this being a very important >> this is a right >> so we have all all of the supports from all the right people right we have all of the commissioners of all the you know we have everything that we need but what they're asking of us is to ask of you to show that

202you support the project as well that's what we're doing but again for a 35 to40 million uh contribution in various ways from the state they really want to show that the town is behind it as We are waiting for M. Selectman Lamir to come back. So I don't want to take this discussion too much further until he's back. Does anybody else have it? Do you have any other >> I just want, you know, I mean, this just landed in our our little lapse at 8:00 or 8:15, >> right? I mean, I didn't have any of this, you know, major information before this. So, I know you're going to move for a vote. So, and I agree since we're a major component, we're also the last ones you're asking. You got 15 other investors and you

203want the town, but we're the last ones you asked. >> They just asked us of They asked us of this now. just now >> before you came here tonight. >> Well, we met with Paul >> Thursday. Thursday >> and I reached out to Paul a month ago, but he wasn't at your last two meetings. So, we had to wait until to be >> whatever it was. We had to wait for him to be present to to be added to the agenda. >> So, in your time frame, you don't get a decision tonight. what happens to the project. >> I can only report what you say and then see. Right. I I don't know. >> I mean, you have agencies that are waiting for this answer. >> Yeah, they'll they'll consider because it's an intraday agency

204approval. So, the big request is community investment fund that is being reviewed by DEC because there's a residential component. There's also a review for underwriting at CHFA and Department of Housing. And so we've sized the debt at $3 million. So when they're and they're going to be the lender. So it's very important for them to have predictability with respect to the operating expenses. So if if if the pilot is not authorized, we have to adjust the loan amount. Part of the feedback from DEECD is that we'd like for you to be able to borrow more. That depends on uh you know partly depends on the income levels or or the the rent levels and the uh and the operating expenses. >> I I am all for public and private investing but just like select for

205it kind of just dropped on us tonight. I think I just need a little more time. So, so I come from the category of uh we've asked a lot of good questions here. We've got a good handle on what the scope of the project is, the funding. They're asking us for this abatement, which is actually brings revenue in that we currently don't have. Um, there'll be residents, 40 residents coming to town that we don't have that to afford these apartments will have some disposable income to bring to town. I like the community aspect of the job training and the makers area. I think it's a really unique project for our community to host and it's an opportunity for us. So, um, to add. It's a plus for our veterans. >> Yes, >> it makes them

206a better space, better job opportunities. >> So, I'll move that we that we move forward with the abatement for 30 years as described in the project. Paul, you've got the details, I take it. >> I would need to get with the town attorney to create the abatement agreement. Um, >> what do you need from us tonight, though? authorization to well, not to speak with the town attorney, but to create a an abatement agreement following uh the schedule of starting at $20,000 a year would be the uh um revenue, lack of a better term, with a 2% escalator for 30 years, uh totaling out at $35,517. I have to get with Kevin the uh create the agreement. We would, you know, you would need to bring in, you know, your counsel as well. It would be

207issued probably on date of CEO of CO >> CEO >> of of CO. Um, that right there would allow me to to get into an agreement that you're authorizing me to enter into agreement to create a 30-year abatement schedule based on uh the initial year of $20,000 and the 2% escalator each year thereafter for 30 years with uh Northwest Connecticut Housing and Innovation Center. So moved. Second. >> Further disc. We have a motion to second. Further discussion. No further discussion. All those in favor? Opposed? Staining. 52. >> Talk tomorrow. >> Thank you very much. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Moving on to item 11, citizens comments. The board of selectman welcomes public comments. Speakers be limited to three minutes. Anyone wish to speak? Seeing no public comments, moving on to item 12, executive session,

208discussions regarding 508 Main Street, 48 Bridge Street, sale of real estate, taking with us town manager Harrington and David Satarana. We have a motion. >> So move. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> And it is >> 9:43. Oh yeah. Yeah. Please, Jeff. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. We're back from executive session at 10:03 p.m. We have no action to take. Moving on to item 14, selectman's comments and reports. Anyone? Item 15. >> Make a motion to adjurnn. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> All in favor. >> Thanks everybody. >> Favored item.