Inland Wetlands Commission - Regular Meeting - August 21, 2025 (7pm)

001concerned about ZBA issues. >> Okay. I just wanted to say a couple of things. U first of all, uh I've known Sean for five years and I allowed him to use the jetty that which is on his property, but it crosses over the boundary and it was done here um I think in May um May 2021. There was a big meeting here and they allowed him to connect this new dock there. So for five years he's been using it and the type of a neighbor I am. Uh what his wife said, I just really can't believe that. It really disturbs me. Um and um about his dock sinking into the sand or whatever it is. Uh to me, that's a lot of baloney. I haven't seen it sink into the sand or anything. He spent

002over $10,000 to have that wall done. And uh they did an excellent job on it. They worked on it first. Three days, four days. He had like nine people working there. So, I just wanted to make those comments and um now I could get started. Um well, before I get started, I thank God I have a chance here to I guess defend myself and to explain why I'm here. So, I'm going to do that. I have some pictures of the jetty in question and um some other things that I'd like to pass out. This jetty's been Is it all right if I talk now or >> you can you can >> The jetty's been there for over 70 years and it's in very good shape. >> Thank you. >> Um I've shared it with my

003other two neighbors, the Ivitzes and the uh Smiths and they were there for maybe a total of 60 years. I really don't know who made it, but it's it's been there and uh it'll probably outlast all of us here. >> So, if we just look at some of the pictures over here, this first picture here on the bottom is the 504 house over here. And if you look at it, you'll see that there's a jetty is in the back over there. It's a concrete jetty. And then in the front you have the metal dock. And this is an older picture, but this was when the dock was longer. And that's when they came to the um the meeting over here um in 2021 and it was reduced. And if you notice also on the right

004hand side, you'll see trees. There's no trees on the property now. Sean had 20 trees cut down and um it was just unbelievable how the property is now. It's just like a bomb went off over there and we have no shade on our side. So that's why we run the air conditioners because they got rid of all the shade for everybody. So why he wants to remove the jetty, I really don't know. If he removes the jetty and puts his dock in like he plans to, he's going to be moving it over to the south side. And if he moves it over to the south side towards 522, um I guess his dock, his boat, jetty, and his lifts are around 34 ft. So, he's going to be making the cove, basically taking the cove

005over for himself over there and not having anything or having probably very little consideration for the neighbors in that area. So, it's going to be close to 1300 square ft uh that he's going to be doing. um the jetty. If you look at the um the picture and the first page, you'll see this was a picture of the draw down on the jetty. Maybe it was like 10 or 15 years ago. It wasn't in that good shape, but after he spent like over $10,000 to have it fixed, it's it's in very good shape. And um on the next page, you'll see that there's three pictures of the jetty and he has 4 inch concrete on the top of it. Uh and he has his two bolts over there. And uh it's in very good shape.

006It's not sinking into the sand and it's not going to disappear like he thinks it's going to be. And in the top right hand corner of this second picture over here, here's a picture of the jetty. Maybe that was maybe 10 or 15 years ago, but the other three pictures were of this year and it's it's still standing there. And on the other side, I have a jetty. Uh that's my property. Uh 50 502 on the other side there. The way the jetty was made, if I could just have everybody's attention for a second, the jetty is like this. It's not square. It goes out a little bit like this, like a pyramid. And then the top of the jetty is five feet and the length is 30 feet. And then on the bottom the

007jetty is basically six feet wide. It's wider on the bottom. It's like a pyramid. So, and it goes down at least 2 feet because I've seen it when they built it. So, we're talking a lot of footage underneath the lake bed over here. And I did a calculation. If that jetty is 30 feet long and if we use six feet for the bottom of it, that comes out to be 180 feet and then if you multiply it by the twoft footing, you come out to 360 ft divided by 3 feet and we're coming out to needing at least 40 square yards of fill. And that's um that's possibly how big the hole is going to be or it could even be larger than that. And I don't have any idea where we're going to get

008it. You can't put sand or dirt or fill into the lake bed. That's my understanding. And it's going to be a huge crater over there. And eventually when the water comes in and goes out again, it's all going to probably come over from my side because I'm the closest neighbor and and the jetty is on the Latorial line over there. So if he wants to take this jetty out, it's going to be a big problem because I'm not going to give him permission to bring a crane down like he mentioned last time or have people crossed over the latoral boundary. And um I do have three surveys in here which hopefully I could just go go over with the board and all three of them show that that jetty I'm not talking about the dock.

009The jetty is on the lato line especially at the end. My just before you continue, my understanding >> and from what I've seen, >> yes, >> visiting the site and everything, >> the furthest part of the jetty out into the water actually crosses the latoral boundary and is on your in your latoral boundary. >> That's correct. >> Okay. But this other side of it is three or four years ago, you gave them permission >> to leave it there. >> No, I gave him permission to connect his docket, Steve. >> To what? to connect this the metal dock to the latoral boundary. I mean to the to the jetty >> and that further went out into your area. Okay. But again, I just want to be sure that if he if he were to do any

010kind of remediation on that concrete part of the jetty part of it is on your in your latoral. >> That's correct. Okay. >> I have no problem with him fixing it. No, go ahead. It's been there for 70 years. We had neighbors there. We shared it with everybody. We got along with people. We don't uh we're not a both people. >> No, no, go back to your presentation. >> I I do have a question before we move on from that subject. >> U the current site plan that was presented by u Mr. Stanzi Ali shows the latoral boundary using the cove method and it looks to me using that method that the jetty is not within your latoral border whereas the map that you submitted with uh your documents here. >> They have so many

011different go straight out. >> I know that there's three of them here. I I have them in here and um mine shows that it is on the uh my property line. And then this one is the same one that he had done in 2020 by Mr. Wy. And all he did was he just changed it. It's it almost looks exactly the same. He just changed the ltorial. One has it on it and one doesn't have it on it. So which one are you going to believe? Well, we used the code method. I believe that it's considered a code in there. >> It is. >> Okay. Um, which from other surveyors, I guess that terminology is in question. Um, but the latest one show used the cove method and it shows an angle going out where

012I believe the J. >> I I've been trying to get a surveyor. I don't know if you're aware aware of it, Mr. Lipot, but I was told that there are no surveyors in Winstead to do this. I've called up a couple of months ago to find someone and Keith did my land survey for me in 2014 and he was a very reputable guy and and that survey it shows that it's crossing over there on my survey. Did you see that? >> Um I'm just looking at the >> Yeah, the surveys contradict themselves. >> Yeah, they're good. >> Yeah, we we've experienced that in other Well, I don't know. We asked John to care when he was here representing somebody and >> it was the one in that Sandy Cove, the Shore Drive Cove. And >>

013I thought it should have been cove method. He said it's up in the air. There is no >> I think I think that the Here's the one here's the one that shows that it is going over. It was done by Mr. And it does and it does go over the box. >> See this goes straight straight out. That's correct. Yeah. >> Where the one that he's got. >> I I know that because it didn't change. It's the same map. It's just just let me point one thing out. It's the same map, but they just changed the uh move this a little bit here. They tweaked it a little bit here. But even if it's even if it's over here, it's so close that that it's unbelievable. He doesn't even have it in here. I think

014whether or not it crosses over into your property or not, it's clearly in the lural boundary of 504. >> Yeah, it's beyond the 10 ft. >> That's for sure. >> But it may even cross the boundary. >> It may we use the old survey. >> Yeah, right. >> So, I've been trying to get like I said somebody to to do my coach method to show that to show the way I wanted seen and I haven't been able to find anybody. He lost two keeps and he lost care. >> I know, right? >> Right. The two keeps are gone. I'm sorry to say that, but his survey was, as far as I'm concerned, he was one of the best surveyors around uh Peter and Jason. And and here's mine just to show you. He didn't use

015the latorial boundaries. The president probably never had it over here. Here's the uh the jetty there. And he crosses it right there. That's not the code method then either. >> It isn't because he didn't use it. >> I don't think there's a clear answer to it. >> Yeah, but this is 2014. >> I don't think there's an answer. >> So, anyways, just getting back to after um the reason I'm concerned about it is the craters. And if that's the case, um there's going to be wall damage to my wall because it's so close. This thing has been here for, like I said, over 70 years. And there's also the state of Connecticut has public law 7196, also known as the Connecticut Environmental Protection Act. I'm sure everybody here is aware of that. And it basically

016says that the citizens could could sue to prevent the unreasonable pollution or the impairment or the destruction of air water, including the lake beds. And that's from the Connecticut General Statute 22-16. And that specifically says that we should not be damaging the lake beds. And it goes on to say, "In essence, the 1971 act by bolstering the public trust document and providing legal avenues for citizens to act and to serve to protect the Connecticut lake beds is a valuable public resource, ensuring their responsible use and guarding against any undue harm or degration." Okay, so that's what that was. And the other thing is with the surveys, I was very surprised that on Sean's survey uh when we were here last month um he came up with 78 feet on the uh lakefront. I went over

017there and I asked him, "Shan, I I can't understand how you have 78 feet on that property line >> on the waterfront." >> The waterfront, excuse me. And he told me, "Uh, it's 78 ft." Uh I said, "Why can't we go over there and measure it, Sean?" He said, "78T." He he was very very defensive and uh and uh this is this is getting to uh be uh it's going to be a big problem here one way or the other. But anyways, getting back to the deeds, the people that owned 504 before, Fred Ivitz and Randy and Mr. Smith, his wife Norman and Elellanar, we knew them very well. And on their deeds, which is included in your package, it shows 75 ft. It doesn't show 78 feet. 3T is a big difference. and the

018three feet is probably being uh taken off of my property. Uh and I'm not not keen with that. And um the other thing is from your inlands wetlands meeting as of March 17th, I have the um I have copies of it. It says I think her name was Mrs. Kowiki. questions whether there should be some kind of a written consent from the neighbor meaning myself for the dock encroachment for the latoral boundary and then Mr. Sherman who was uh Mr. stands the alley's representative specifically said I have it right in here. He noted that the latoral line was going right through the center of the dock and indicated that the neighbor which was myself John was also was also um which which allowed was >> well that was that was verified in the minutes from

019that meeting right allowed the situation I gave him the whole thing is I don't really care who my neighbor is like the people and let him use the jetty. And so if it crosses over a little bit, fine. I'm not going to make a big deal out of it. But the point I'm trying to make is when I hear what his wife said about me and uh that really tease me off. >> So it sounds like you would prefer to leave the jetty in. >> I definitely want to leave the jetty in. The jetty belongs there. It it protects everybody's um property line. If you take the jetty out, Mr. and do his plans. He's moving everything over at the 5 to 22. He's going to take the whole cove over just about. He'll have

020all everything in front of there and then he's going to put the ski jet on our side. That that's ridiculous. The thing that really gets me about this guy and his plans is he just doesn't want to stop. He just keeps going. And then just getting back to the ZBA. >> Leave that out, John. only because like I said initially I didn't want to get into that conver conversation I was polite I'm polite again >> but you know limit your remarks to the water >> I'm wrapping it up >> okay now you can continue but talk to the waterfront >> and the runoff uh for the leaders and gutters if it affects you okay >> then that you're talking our language not CBA language >> okay anyways under your ordinance section 380-4 permit application requirements

021in carrying out the intent of this chapter to reduce congestion around the lake shore. Um eliminate boundary disputes among the neighbors, avoided navigational hazards, uh the impediment and the impedements of the ingress and egress of the shore. The commission should take into consideration all the relevant facts of circumstances to make their decision. And in this case, if he wants to take the jetty out and then put in his metal dock and move it more in the middle of his property, this is definitely going to affect a lot of things. It's going to affect the size and the configuration of the structure, the impact on the water course. Um, he's going to be almost in the whole code, the latorial rights of the adjacent property, which would be me. If he takes the jetty out, I

022don't want the jetty taken out. And um the others um those and the those are the main issues over there and the um so I hope you all looked at his um his survey with with the dock. Did everybody see that that he wants to move it over 34 feet? >> The survey indicates that he'd like to remove the jetty. >> Right. That's correct. and then reposition >> the dock >> a new dock >> with a boat lift >> and putting a jet ski lift in. >> Right. >> And and he's within his right to ask for those things. >> I know that. >> Okay. >> But what I'm just saying, Steve, is where he is in the Cove. It's going to be make it much more crowded. And this ordinance that I just read,

023um 380-7 says that we should not allow because of that. No, what it says is that we should the commission should be aware of navigational issues for things that we approve >> and um you know we would certainly take that into consideration >> and would determine whether or not it's navigational hazard that the gentleman or the applicant is creating or it's your opinion that it's creating a navigational hat. But there's seven or eight people up here that will decide that with the input from the wetlands agent. >> Okay. And then the last thing I'm getting to the end, it's the um last one is uh ordinance 38-7. It says in no event shall a permit be granted that will result in the crossing of a latorial boundary. And that also includes the air. So, if

024he has a crane and he wants to take the jetty out by some kind of a mechanical means using it on his uh lawn and then lifting it up, he's still going to be crossing my latorial boundary line because his jetty is still on it. Part of it is still on it and I do not want to have that done. It's going against my grain and uh it just not going to it just isn't going to fly with me. You understand that that jetty >> the way I see it, the beginning of the jetty leaving his property. >> It is. >> Okay. You can't even go on it. So you couldn't even get to the last 2 and 1/2 foot of jetty. It comes to a sliver. >> Yes. It doesn't come to a slipper.

025It's still 5T out there. >> It's 5T down there, but only 2 and 1/2 ft of it is on your line. >> I know that. But it still is on my line. That's the whole thing. But I'm just saying there's no you have no no way of getting to >> I I don't want to get I want him to use it. I have no problem Mr. Stanzielli using my jetty. I have a problem of having remove it and then creating a crater in the lake bed and then having all of my >> Don't you think that >> this is only my opinion but don't you think that >> we actually don't have a lake bed under bunch of concrete? >> No, that's not true. Oh, snails don't live under there. Lambs don't live under there.

026>> Okay. What would you call it then? >> I would say if you removed it, you'd have a lake bed. >> Uhhuh. Okay. >> That would be >> Well, you're getting pretty technical, but what I'm saying is it's on top of the lake bed and there's a 2T of stone and rock and foundation that's on the bottom of it that's >> my understanding is that the that concrete pier that goes out is not does not sit on the surface of the lake. It's below the surface of the lake. >> That's correct. >> And and he's saying that in order to remove that, it would be detrimental to the lake. >> And in order to remove it, it would it would in his opinion necessitate being in his latoral air boundary, >> right? >> It's on

027the other side of the applicant's latoral boundary. There's one line down the middle and the the jetty crosses over that line. So, you know, he's saying I won't give him permission to >> take that that portion out. >> I just saw the thing and take mine out. >> Go ahead. >> Well, I think one at a time, guys. >> Gary does bring up a valid point as far as lake bed because lake beds can be restored and can't have native the proper plants put in them. And that essentially there isn't a lake bed. Now, if it's covered wood, concrete, it's on a surface on the lake. But as far as um you know material that a fish could swim in or a native plant could grow in, it doesn't have that. >> I do have

028a question about that though. If if it's removed and there is a twoft deep by however long that is pretty long >> 30 feet >> hole depression. >> Um we don't actually have a right now from the applicant about how that's going to be dealt with. That's looked at. >> Wouldn't you wouldn't you >> Oh, I'm just saying Gary, just let me finish my thought. I'm not saying yes, no, or otherwise. I'm just saying there's no actual plan. There's no remediation plan for that hole being presented to us right now. >> Why would Why would you want to fill the hole? It's a natural lake bed underneath all that stuff. because it's going to be coming from my side, the soil and everything else. That's my concern over that. >> Majority of the whole is

029on his side. >> I know, but it's on the borderline. >> Let's not get into that conversation. Did Tom Hang on. Did Tom Grimaldi in his response address that issue? >> How how the applicant is going to remediate if any if any the hole. >> Uh I'm not certain. Keep in mind we only got >> I'm just I don't want to put you on the spot. >> It's like 60 cubic feet worth of hole. Yeah, I don't see anything. >> So then he maybe he he has to address that. >> Yeah, I would say someone has to address it. >> But there's nothing saying like like this looks to me like a stone, not all concrete. Okay. And there's nothing saying you're going to go all the way to the bottom stone out. You could

030take you could take the stone out to where it's in below. >> Sure, but we're just talking hypotheticals. All I'm saying is there's no plan. >> Then it becomes, you know, >> there's no narrative and >> you'd have to bring in the media in order to >> Yeah. >> You know, you don't want to create a swim, you don't want to create a swimming hazard either. If you shear the the the pier >> a foot above the the lake bed, >> all I'm saying is that that part of the proposal is incomplete. >> And I would agree. I think that's a very valid point that if you're going to take out >> then basically expose a lake bed, have a plan that of what you're going to do with it, how you're going to remediate

031it. I mean, that's a pretty common thing to remediate lake beds and and >> can I can I just >> what not and I think it's within they can certainly come up with a plan and have >> I don't know if that's >> Can I just interject something? I we spent a little over an hour >> on this application and it's going to be continued. I think in some kind of fairness to everybody else who has an application before us and is waiting here, I think we should ought to limit the comments to another 10 minutes and then cut off the conversation and continue the public hearing until next month. And maybe we'll have more facts that we can deal with, not supposition or opinion. And maybe we'll have we certainly will have an opportunity

032to look at Tom Gumaldi's report. Yeah. And reflect on it and um and maybe if some things are lacking in his report, we can get back to Tom and ask him to revisit it again. >> I think it should be up to Kyle and Tom conjunction to come up with a plan. >> Yeah. But again, let's let's be polite a few more minutes and then we're going to move on. >> All right. Thank you, Steve. And the last thing I just wanted to say is just with the jetty, um, I I feel that it should still be in there and if he takes it out, I'm going to do everything necessary within the law to protect my rights, my land, my waterfront property, including appealing this decision if it doesn't go my way. >> Okay.

033Thank you. >> I just want to you raised your hand. You want to say something? >> If you do, come up to the table. >> Could you just stay here for one second, John? I >> winch. Okay, let your wife speak and not >> I really don't have that much to say because honestly I just feel like >> I don't have that much to say because of the of the um all of Brook's words that she was allowed to get out all about everything else and it was mostly just a a vendetta against my husband. And I I don't I just think that that I I don't think it's very fair to to to use that kind of an argument. I don't know if it's called straw man argument or what argument it is but

034it's it's demeaning to somebody and then when that person has to get up and speak, it's it's difficult. And uh I'm just saying I I don't have much to say because I don't think that there's anything I could say that I could defend that anybody here would listen to. That's how I feel. It may be wrong. Not every and maybe there's a few people, but but most of the board has spent a lot of time defending what they wanted to do. Not everybody, but most >> I I don't know that. I think most of the board, all over the board has been polite listening to both sides of the argument with some kind of tolerance and we've certainly made it clear that >> hear that what sir >> I think we've we've listened to both

035sides with some kind of tolerance in terms of being polite and saying to both sides both you and the applicant that you know we're not interested in your zoning issues we're interested in your waterfront issues. So having said that, you know, let's just again stay focused. >> John, anything else? >> No. You want to ask me something, Matt? >> I just um So your only objection to this project is just about the removal of the jetty. >> Yes. He leaves the jetty in and if he wants to raise his wall one foot, I have no problem. As long as he leaves the jetty there. I think that's very fair. And for years, I let him, like I said, for five years, I let him use the jetty. If he wants to use it for another

036five years or for for a long time, I have no problem with that. Okay. But I do have a problem if he's going to take it away and then he's going to cause damage to my leg bed, which I assume will happen regardless of what some people think. Um I'm afraid of that. >> Okay, >> that's all I can say. >> And as far as the rest of the the house construction, the removal, everything no like that. >> But Matt's talking about drainage. drainage excavation the >> that phase of the project. You have no objection. >> No, we're not talking about that, are we? >> Yes. We're not talking about the ZV no. But but sorry, it is confusing. It is confusing for people. >> There are wetlands related in the construction plan that have

037to do with water quality. >> Right. So, what Matt's asking you is, do you have any issues with how the footing drains are designed? Do you have issues with how the water filtration? >> No, I don't think I have any issues as right now, Maryanne, with that, but with the ZBA, there's a big issue there and that'll be addressed next week. >> Okay. And so long as the this the public hearing is continued, you know, we'll revisit you should there be a need on your part to talk again. >> Yes. So, okay. >> And if you need me to talk again, I'll be more than happy to. >> You're going to be here next month, I'm sure. >> Thank you, Steve. >> Okay, guys. Thank you. >> Um, rather than introduce anybody else, you know,

038let's just continue the public hearing and uh then we can be have some kind of >> Do you need a motion for that? >> Yeah. Yeah. Just so we have some kind of civility >> to everybody else. But go ahead. >> Before we do that, should we request Kyle and Gamaldi to get a plan together? to have that prepared for us for next weekend >> for the crater. >> Yeah, >> I make a decision whether or not >> we Yeah, that works. >> Okay. If you decide you want to continue to take it out, come up with a plan to fill the hole. >> Yeah, >> we'll be glad to hire him >> and again >> come up with a plan before the next meeting. >> Yeah. And I would suggest you you do it

039if you can in a timely manner so that Tom has it in a timely manner. And I'm going to ask that somewhere along the public hearing and probably next month. I don't know if it's going to continue beyond next month that we ask Tom to be here so that if we have any questions, you know, rather than getting a secondhand or interpreting what he's writing down as a as his findings, we can sort of have a conversation with him. I have >> I just have one question. >> Go ahead. >> I hope it's not going to be controvers I just don't know the answer to this. A latoral boundary that's in the water is that considered somebody's property mean a lake bed or is that just a boundary that is like a setback? >> So

040it's a boundary that's a setback. >> It doesn't mean you but the state owns owns the the property under the lake. I don't know if that I just I had to clarify that a little bit in my mind of what you know >> state owns the water town owns the property underath underneath the water >> right >> but we have the responsibility to maintain the integrity of both >> yeah that's why I do think we and everyone's already said it the only thing I want to add about whatever the re remediation plan is that you work out with the engineer is just make sure that they feel very comfortable with the deep guidelines as it relates to that issue because um you know it's it's really a sensitive area the lake bed. >> All right.

041Is there a motion to continue the public hearing until the September meeting? >> I'll make a motion to continue the public hearing for this application till the September meeting. >> Is there a second? >> Thank you. All those in favor of continuence that's unanimous. All right. Thank you very much. Uh we'll see everybody who has an interesting party back here next month and uh we'll resume the conversation. Uh let me just get my paperwork together. Okay, this goes here. This goes here. This all goes here. Okay, the next order of business is the second public hearing uh inland wetlands water course commission 25-20. The applicant is the town of Winchester. The uh representative is Joanna Lep Jessup. Um the location is Hurlebert and Bugwell Street and it construct a wet land for drainage along Bil

042Street. >> Joanna, you want to introduce yourself and Jim, please? >> Hi, my name is Joanna Joseph. I'm the um town uh engineering intern. >> Okay, Jim. Uh Jim Rollins, director of public works. >> Okay. Um, we heard your application last month. Um, is there anything else you'd like to add or enhance what we our understanding of the application tonight? >> Yeah, we have a presentation that kind of overviews everything that was >> Okay. Is it going to is it going to present new information or Okay. The Yankee game is on uh Amazon tonight. The >> Giants. >> Ready? >> I'm up here. Whether I'm up there is a whole another >> Jeff is what I'm watching. What's behind me? >> That's the plan. >> Okay. >> Oh, look at that. >> All right. Two

043out of three. >> Surround sound. >> Nice. Ready? >> Yep. >> Okay. >> All right. >> So, you want to take it away? Um, >> yeah. We're just going to go over um kind of the process of each pen starting with the existing demolition and our proposed. But >> would you mind speaking up? >> Oh, yes. Sorry. Um this is just our overview of what we're going to go over just our existing plan what's kind of happening over there and the conditions and what we want to address demolition and then onto the proposed plan that we have. Um key issues steeps uh this is on the right is a picture from Hurlbut Street looking down or sorry Birdsall Street looking down to Herbut and we could see we have a really steep slope with a

044lot of sediment buildup. We have a deteriorating retaining wall on that right side of that picture. And we also have a fallen fence. You can't quite see in that picture, but we have more pictures kind of showing that. Um, it's a low-lying area towards the bottom that collects runoff from birds and adjacent residential areas. Um, it's very overgrown and difficult to maintain with that steep slope. And the current wetland sits at 1,000 square feet. So, that's kind of what's going on there. Um, this is kind of the plan that kind of overviews everything I just went over. Again, that fallen fence. Um, we want to, yeah, that fallen fence, that's the footprint of the existing wetland being 1,000 ft. And >> so, the fallen fence is right here along the side of Birdsall Street. >>

045Your mouse, I see it. >> Oh, yeah. She's >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's a way down here. I just figured that out or she disappeared. >> Yeah, >> there you go. >> So, the fallen fence is right along the sidewalk >> here. Some of it's been removed, some of it hasn't. Um, and then the wetland, the existing wetland area was flagged by uh a soil scientist, and this is where it is laid out. And then obviously the up and review area is the blue line all the way around it. And you can see super steep slopes coming down into the low. >> Yeah, that steep slope is Yeah, that steep slope right now sits at a 2 to one slope and we want to kind of flatten that out and reduce that. And as far

046as existing, yeah, that's about it. These are some more pictures. We can see that fallen fence and all of that overgrown brush kind of growing over that. And the Yeah. And there's also currently stairs on that far. Yeah. Right there. There's currently stairs on that sidewalk that we want to also flatten out and get rid of those and redo the sidewalk. And over on that right picture at that very bottom in this area right here is where that wetland sits. >> Yeah. >> Right now right right below the dot. >> So that's closest to the house existing to the right of the wetlands. >> Correct. >> Yep. >> Some more pictures of those stairs and that manhole basin and those corugated metal pipes uh that we all want to get rid of. >> Pretty much

047everything's in a state of repair over there. Um, my understanding of the history of the site is that it didn't used to be quite so steep sloping, but back in the day, there was a a mason contractor that lived in the house closest and just kept dumping his debris over and just created a very steep slope that eventually filled with vegetation and dirt and sediment and so forth. um how the wetland got there. I'm not I think it was just you know there was a mound put in I the whole thing is you know entirely artificial but regulations don't stipulate between man-made artificial and you know naturally occurring >> and somewhere along the line several years back a lot of the trees were taken down there. >> We took down a bunch of dead dying

048trees. Yep. And then there was some taken down when the house next door was built too. There was there was trees on that lot that well actually they were on our lot. They got taken down during that construction. It happens. Um, so the basin there shows just a bunch of, you know, rusty old steel pipes. Um, you see there's in the corner there's actually a manhole cover that somehow found its way inside. I don't know. But >> um, as far as demolition plans, we plan to remove deteriorated infrastructures including pipes that fallen fence and we want to install fencing for erosion control during construction and clear any deteriorating trees from the area. This is Yeah, as I just said, remove the fallen fence. We want to relocate and remove those two storm drains. >> So,

049so you'll see right here, these two drains currently go into that manhole that we were showing in the other slide. Um, when you see the proposed, that's going to change. Uh, which gets to part of the purpose of the whole project. Currently, the pipe that runs down through here carries more water than it should or doesn't carry as much water as it should, I guess, is a better way of saying it. Um, so we want to divert the water off a bird's all, which is not a huge amount, but we want to divert that and run it into a constructed wetland in the same general area where it can be tained and treated and released slowly back into the environment rather than just overwhelming a storm drain which overwhelms storm drains further down and doesn't

050ever get treated. So this this this slide, you know, really shows, you know, how just changing a pipe here and running it down into a, you know, a constructed wetland, you know, serves multiple purposes. >> Anything else? >> No, that just about covers it. And this is just the same image but with just this that silt fence that we want to >> Jim, are you going to replace the pipe? >> Yeah, we'll get to that when we get to uh what's proposed. So, here's the here's the proposed silk fence, keeping it out of the road, and then during construction, we'll also have a silk fence up above the construction area just to keep it out of the, you know, the newly constructed wetland. >> Is there any possibility that whatever you're proposing impacts on that

051house? >> I don't see how. Um, let me think about that. But I don't I don't I don't know that it would. Um, there's no drains from the house that runs there. There's just a just a big huge pile of material between that and the house. The house is set up a little bit. But by running a lot of water into the wetlands, there any possibility of it overflowing or creating a a soft walking surface on their land? >> I don't think so. But let me I I didn't consider that. >> Um I size it for the 90% storm. So >> I sized it for the 90% storm. So it definitely holds the like majority of storms. So it wouldn't >> Oh, I think the majority is one thing. you know, the neighbor is interested

052in that small minority that might change because of what you're doing. And that's what I'm asking. >> Yeah. So, in the event that more water comes into this than it can store, you're going to it's going to act essentially as a level spreader across the top of this. This is all one elevation >> and it will just pour out onto the roadway and then down the road to the next catch basin, which we didn't end up getting on there, did we? There's a catch basin right down right down here somewhere and it would jump right into the same pipe that it used to go into. >> So the overflows essentially kick out in the road versus into the neighbor's >> properties. Yeah. >> Any hydraulic water at all? You have to hydraulic water at all

053that you have to worry about. >> I mean water pressure, you know, like pushing through the >> underw it's got a free it's it's just going to rise up and then it'll just overflow and trickle down over the edge. So it'll cross over the sidewalk or you going to channel it under the sidewalk? >> Yeah, it would cross over the sidewalk right into the gutter down to the next catch base. >> At the end, >> you could overflow. >> You could Frank, I didn't hear you. >> I said build an outfall at the end of the wetlands head wall with a pipe and connect it to the storm drain. So this way any overflow at times of overflow would go through the >> in the 10% of the time because it's designed for 90%. You're

054talking about the 10% of the immediate. You know, the other thing is >> not damaging anybody's property. >> Well, we just be kicked out onto the road. >> My only thought is it's an additional cost to do it that way, right? >> Yes. >> But if the water >> So, we're talking about 10 a 10%, >> right? We're talking about a 10% overflow. >> It's that time when you get a storm like we had Thursday where you get that first hour of >> But it would just be kicking it right out to the road. >> I'm not worried about the summer rain. I'm worried about melting from the summer, >> overflowing into the the uh >> the wetlands and then freezing over the sidewalk >> and then walking up the sidewalk or walking down the

055side. There's a couple >> I don't think winter time would be a problem. It's going to be a it's going to be a significant storm event would be the only thing >> only because there's a couple of bus stops there for kids. >> Uh you know, >> they they're at home when it rains. >> No, no more. Not with Zoom. Yeah. Now they're all in school. >> Then the town is responsible for anything happening. >> Yep. >> Whether it be icing or water slipping then that's a man-made >> Right. >> But it would only ice up Frank if it stayed there. Right. Not if it's moving. If I remember, I think what's happened before is I think you did work in this gentleman's driveway because the water was percolating up from the from the pipe

056or something. >> So, in the past, you know, you're correct and you are too. It's two different situations. Before the water was bleeding out um so it was bleeding out onto the sidewalk and freezing in the winter in its existing condition. So, we put like just a little under drain to capture that water and run it into the pipe that you're talking about. When it just weeps out through a hillside, >> it weeps out so slowly that it freezes. If you were having a storm event that overwhelmed that it would come over the top, run off, I don't think freezing would be your issue. Um but if if you prefer that we you know we designed you know a mechanical outlet into that pipe. It was one of our discussions we had during the process.

057We just chose not to. But >> it's a good design plus it takes a liability to you. We'll add that >> anything happening. >> Yep. >> Thank you. >> Go ahead. >> Oh this just kind of takes a look at the contour change plan. So this mainly goes over how we're changing it from a 2 to1 slope to more of like the average four to one slope. So, >> if you can see the the the dashed contour lines are the existing contours and we're just kind of we're moving that that lowest contour line way out closer to the project which you know makes this half as steep over over its length. At 2:1 you have erosion issues and maintenance issues. At 4:1 you can maintain it and you can manage erosion. So that's really all

058this plan is for is to show the the differences in contour without too much other uh baggage on the on the plan. >> Oh, if you want to do you mind going back inside? This is also a good representation of how we're taking that existing wetland and kind of we're only just reorientating it and making it slightly larger and more constructed. And this you can see this how >> so this is this is the existing footprint of the wetland. And then we're basically just kind of rotating it a little bit counterclockwise and increasing it just ever so slightly in size. And that's the outside bold line right there. >> So towards the if you want to point towards the sediment for bay. >> Yeah. >> So at the very top we oriented this way so

059that it anything that comes from birds and falls into down that slope. it falls down that slope, it's going to head into the sediment for bay first before going into the constructed wetland. >> Jeremy Jeff can can can an applicant alter the wetlands? >> Yes, that that's part of the that's the reason for the application >> physically alter wetlands. >> Yes. And in this case, so you know, Connecticut general statutes D wants you to not reduce the amount of wetlands. In this case, I think they're actually enlarging >> just a little just a little bit but but it helps the case. So yes, you can alter wetland >> by creating that flattened area, >> but it becomes a manageable wetland. >> It becomes a manageable wetland. It's it's probably a more functioning wetland. If you

060read through the wetland report, it's really a non-functioning wetland right now. Uh and and what what Jim and and Joanna are proposing is to actually use it for storm water treatment. >> Yeah. And next slide. Um this is kind of an overview of our proposed plan. So, we're going up about 500 square feet in area from the existing to the proposed plan. So, right now we're sitting at 1500 square feet with a volume of 20 2500 cubic feet sediment. We have the sediment for bay area and volume. Um, we have with that uh much flatter slope, we have potential park components with a new sidewalk section, potential for future bench installations. Um, infrastructure upgrades. We're um the intersection realignment of looking from Bird's Ball turning onto Herbut Street. Um a new guard rail, uh more

061pipe, and those regraded slopes that we just discussed >> and then we'll show that all of that information is on here. This is the busy plan. So, we're going to start. >> All right, how about we start? These were there was two existing cash basins at the beginning. So, those used to go into this manhole. Now, what you're going to see is there's going to be a catch basin here, and then this corner is going to be opened up. Remember, there was there was concrete steps in the sidewalk here, which is completely not ADA compliant. Um, so we're going to move that over and make it just a curved sloped sidewalk. Still won't be ADA compliant, but at least it'll be walkable. Um, there'll be another um the thing is to improve it where you

062can, right? Kind of like wetlands. Uh so there'll be another catch basin here and then so all the water coming down Birdsall Street rather than going into an already over capacity pipe will now run down. Uh it'll be treated with sumps in the catch basin. Then it'll go into a rip wrap um energy dissipator to slow the flow down and capture the f any sediment that does make it through. Overflows into the for bay where any further sediment can precipitate out and it's relatively easy to clean. then overflows, you know, another dead level area like a level spreader down into the wetland where it will fill the wetland up and, you know, do its thing. Uh, it'll store the water, treat the water as it's naturally released back into the ground. That's the that's the

063basic idea of of what we're proposing. >> Do you what assurance do you do can you show us that the water from Berto is going to run into where you want it to go? You're going to have to resurface that the street. >> Yep. Yep. That intersection have to be re reconfigured. >> Is that while we're doing that? >> Is that in your plan? >> Yes. >> So, this is this is kind of a a multi- a multi-phase plan. This is part of the phase one would be to get this these catch basins into here. That's really the the primary thing. Um, as part of that, we have to redo, you know, this sidewalk on this side. There is a an icing issue right up here by this uh this next house. Water bleeds out

064through these yards, comes out into the road, and we have a big freezing problem. So, whether we have the the resources to do this all all at one shot or we have to add this basin and this pipe into here um later, I don't know. But, you know, it's a 10-year permit. If we can if we can put the money together in one shot, it'll be a oneshot deal. If we have to do it in phases, we will. >> But what are you asking us to approve? >> Part of it or all of it? >> Well, I'm here for all of it because whether I do it now or in 10 years. >> Okay. >> Now, this is I really don't need you up here because it's outside the review area, but it's pertinent to

065the project. So, we have it. You guys, anything? >> Jeff? Jeremy? >> No, I think it's a good plan. >> I had a question. Could you go back to the plate before that where you had under? Nope. Next one. >> Potential for future. What is how how is it going to be left like as far as a maintenance of that area? Is it going to be native vegetation? My thought. Or is it going to just kind of grow all back up and then like who's going to maintain? I don't know if that's out of the scope of of this board, but >> maintenance of the wetland itself is as part of a storm water treatment, I guess, would be within your purview. We could just let this thing grow vegetated wild and it would be

066it wouldn't really be in your purview, but the plan, you know, since we're doing this work, we get a lot of complaints, believe it or not, about how ugly this corner is. >> Yeah, it is. >> Right. Right. So what we wanted that's one of the reasons for flattening this out. >> So let me go back about five years. >> We were getting a lot of complaints about this and people wanted me to, you know, the general consensus was fill this whole thing in a nice gentle slope, vegetate it, maybe make it a nice little park, right? Really cool little space, town owned, you know, great. So I was all in and then I found a wetland. >> Now we're here. So this is what we had to do to address an existing wetland. They

067couldn't just fill it in. So what can we do to accommodate people's desire to make it look better? My problem with an overcapacity storm pipe and you know it took us until we had somebody with enough brains to draw it up, you know, to get it in front of you. So that's why we're here. So it'll be attain I guess game because it'll be if it doesn't turn into in the future say some sort of park how is it maintained before that >> it's just when we say park that that's that's kind of a >> green area is more accurate green space. >> Our plan is to plant this with clover and it's relatively easy to mow. It's a nice nice plant. It holds up looks good. doesn't grow super huge and if you maintain

068it, it won't be overcome by invasives so much in this area. I think this area is a lost cause where we're not really doing anything to it because it's just all >> masonry rubble that got dumped from >> so the town will in a sense mow it >> so that periodically. >> Yeah. That'll just get added to our you know some stuff will be monthly, some stuff will be quarterly, some stuff will be annually. >> That's in that last slide. >> Yeah. And that will be getting to the >> Oh, we didn't get to. So, this is a cross-section. Oh, here. Go ahead. You do it. You drew it. >> Yeah. This is a cross-section of that rip wrap that we saw on the previous um slide. >> So, this is the pipe coming down

069off a bird's all discharges into uh you know 10inch thick area of modified rip wrap. The rip wrap sits on top of six inches of inch and a quarter stone which sits on top of some geoexile fabric. That way you don't get erosion scour underneath it. >> And then that bottom picture you have the wetland and sediment for bay crosssection. So that first where Jim that first section where Jim's pointing at, that's going to be that sediment for bay that catches anything that didn't get caught by the by the rip wrap and then once that overflows, it's going to head into that wetland on the right. >> Then it will that catch basin be part of your maintenance vacuuming program? >> So that's the thing. You you will sweep Birds All Street first, then you

070suck out the basins, then you clean out the forbay. This would probably be annual. The others would happen, you know, every time we go up to lake and do basin, which is seems like every month. Um, then what comes down in here should be really low maintenance. That's the whole point of the forbay and all the pre-treatment devices. And then this this would have some annual it would be looked at annually. It would probably only get maintained once every couple of years. Um once it gets grown in kind of like the one over at Pearson School, it'll need to be maintained a little more frequently, but until it grows in that first couple years. >> Is that maintenance program part of the application? >> Yeah. So that's next. We didn't really we didn't write it

071out exactly. Um there's there's a there's a a planting plan that hasn't been hasn't been done. We know the plants we're going to put in. We just don't know where it's going to be spotted to uh to look good. Um and then yeah, it's just it's just simply a you know, it's maintaining a a vegetated area. You got to keep it from getting too crazy. The hard part is invasives. You know, no matter what you do, that is going to be the that's going to be the most difficult part of maintaining that whole thing is keeping those out. Um we're we're embarking on a somewhat of a management of invasives management plan um at public works now. It's it's a daunting really daunting problem. Um but yeah, that's the regular maintenance is easy. It's it's

072the invasives that are going to be the hard part. >> All right. Is there anything any questions or concerns on the part of the commission? All right. Is there anybody in the audience who would like to address the commission regarding this application? Okay. Do we want to continue this conversation for next month or do we want to close the public hearing? >> Well, were you going to make the adjustment with the overflow? >> Yeah, we can certainly >> think protect the town. We could make that a condition of approval. >> Okay. Well, if you can do it that way if it's a condition, >> right? >> All your water certain spot as time goes on. I think we we'll I'm comfortable making it a condition of approval, but it probably won't become come before us

073again. So, can you guys review that condition and satisfy the needs of the commission so that you know it works? So, let's put it that way. >> Absolutely. >> We're good. >> All right. Uh, is there a motion to close the public hearing? >> Sure. I'll make a motion to close IWWC 25-20 uh town of Winchester for uh Robba and Birdsville Street uh wetland and drainage uh with the condition of having the overflow. >> Well, we didn't we didn't vote on that. Let's just close the public hearing >> and then when we go to vote on it, we'll make that a condition. >> I got you. Okay. >> Okay. >> Second. Is there a second, Gary? >> All those in favor of closing the public hearing, I becomes unanimous. Thank you very much. >> Okay.

074Uh, under old business, IWWC 25-12 Ken Hawkins is the applicant. Uh, the address is 406A East Wakefield Boulevard. and they want to repair approximately 20 feet of the stone wall and repoint the remainder of the wall as necessary. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, because Rob's going to use it. >> Good evening. >> Hawkins company. >> Okay. >> I'm Matt Hawkins, >> his son. >> Is that good or bad? >> Sometimes bad. >> All right, let's get this moving. I you you told us last month that you want to repair part of the wall. Um we didn't see any pictures of what you wanted to do. I think we had asked for pictures. >> Ask for a larger plan. >> I'm sorry. >> Ask for a larger plan which I see. >> Say it again. >>

075Ask for a larger plan. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah, I think they satisfied. Okay. Except which we have now. >> You So I have a question on the plan. Um this this is an older plan that stuff was done before, right? So you're not doing anything to the driveway purposes probably why we're here for the third. >> No, the driveway was if you drive down that you're live right there. >> Yeah, I'm a couple doors down there. >> Yeah. So it's if you drive down there, it's exactly as per plan. You could look at it. I've just seen it from the shorefront. It's all I really looked at it from waterfront. >> Okay. >> All right. Any other concerns or questions regarding the application >> or the applicant? >> I think they met them all.

076>> Yeah. When will you when are you planning on doing this? At the deep draw down >> and how long you think it's going to take you? >> Less than a week, you know. We really don't know how deep the water is there. I guess it's the water has always been >> on in a normal draw down. Do you have access to the bottom of the wall? >> You do not water. >> Okay. >> It's not that big. >> What kind of remediation do we need set up there? >> Well, it's repointing, right? What's that? >> Yeah, you're gonna want to protect the lake bed in your work area. Um, what do you plan to put down some >> plywood or >> Yeah, we could put plywood down. >> Yeah, just make sure you catch

077anything the drops and you know >> Yeah. Okay. >> When you get set up, call in. Have Jeff take a look at it. >> Okay. >> Let me know if I need waiters or >> how we're doing it. >> Okay. >> All right. Is there a motion for approval? I'll make a motion. Motion to approve IWWC 25-12 repair approximately 20 ft of stone seaw wall three point remainder of wall as necessary. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> Second. Uh before we get into voting, how much of a bond do we want? >> Do we need a bond for repointing? >> This is not repointing. >> I I missed I just >> There are there are parts of the wall that don't exist. >> So it's not repoint. >> Okay. I misre No. I >>

078got you. I got you. I wasn't here. >> I took pictures of the site. There are parts of the wall that don't exist. >> $1,000. Good. >> Yes. No. Funny. Plenty. >> Yep. >> Okay. Before you begin, you'll notify them and then post the bond cash or whatever they say. >> We got to vote on that, right? >> What's that? >> Got a vote on it. >> We didn't vote on it yet. Okay. All those in favor of approval, >> make a motion. >> I did. I think we did. I made a motion. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Did someone second it? >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Come on. We're fast. >> All those in favor of approval. Frank, you voting? >> Yep. >> All right. It's unanimous. Okay. So, there's a $1,000 bond that

079has to be posted. I'll let Jeff know when you begin the work, and when you finish, you'll get your money back. Y >> Okay. Good luck with it. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Okay, next application uh 25-17. The applicant is Rich Madella. The location is 734 Lake Drive. The proposal is to remove uh second floor and of an existing house, detached garage and shed. So, you're going to remove the attached garage. You're going to remove the shed to word existing continues and uh construct the second floor on the house and the new attached threecar garage. Before you begin, for clarification, you're not doing anything at all on the waterfront. >> Absolutely not. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Tell us what we don't know because you were in front of us last month. Yeah. I I

080will actually the only comment that we had last month was that the word Highland Lake was missing from the impervious imperous plans. I'm glad you paid attention. >> And I hope you fix it for us. >> It's on. It's It's my own. It's just me. I get here and go. >> Yeah. They're still They're set to the right channels. >> You have the plan? >> Yes. uh the latest and greatest plans uh which was revision too. So here is the word lake on the impervious plan. However, after listening to you talk last month, I did make one other change to this plan and that was I'll make it. Are you fighting against each other? >> You know, >> it says false. >> Okay, go ahead. >> Well, I have others that need the system. Anyway,

081um we made other I made one other revision to the plant. The ping drain water and the roof leader water, which we showed you last month, was going to go into that extremely large and and it's has two layers of filter fabric in there, and you saw pictures of them. is that they laid the filter fabric in there. One of the things though is that it's all clean water. None of the water that makes it to that stone is going to be running across the grass or running anywhere. So when it gets there, there was talk about that it it gets hot, whatever. So we decided we would spread the water out, not just get the pipe and daylight it directly into the stone, but at the end now we have 12 ft of perforated

082pipe. So as the water goes in there, it has a chance to spread out before it starts to go into the ground. So we did it on both sides of the property and you could see the Oh, you can't see the red. >> He's working on it. >> Yeah, >> Jeff, does it matter which television you pointed at? >> This remote specifically for for the big one. >> So I don't know if you have these red clouds on your revision too. So, as these leaders come down into that very large stone, it was 8 ft deep. It's like six feet wide and um it's all just crushed very very clean wash stone. Uh has two layers of filter fabric, one at the 1T depth, one at the 4ft depth that also acts as filtration for

083the water as it gets in there. But now, instead of just like I said, just dropping the pipe right into the we're going to spread it out at the end with tea and 12 ft of perforated pipe. And that's behind the adjacent to the lake wall. >> That's adjacent to the lake wall. >> Correct. >> Rob, are you considering that putting those leaders in for the stone? Are you considering that for the additional 5% for the LI? >> Well, it it takes into account the 5%. Yeah, >> it does. >> So, there's a calculation which I put >> on the plan over here on the side that takes into account the volume that's going in there and that we have more capacity than there is volume going in there using the Connecticut Piece 1.3 in

084now it used to be one in now it's 1.3 so it accounts for that volume plus so um those were the only I mean that was the one correction that you had asked us to make the last plant and then I added this to things little bit better as the water gets out. >> So Rob, just in general, is that something that LE or LI guidelines? >> Yeah, but that's just >> consider part of >> he's trying to get at is that a is that a definition of LI guidelines that get you up to 20%. >> We're not looking to get to 20%. We're actually >> Well, I guess for other If it was running, I could show you how much we But this >> No, I understand that. I'm I'm with you. >> It

085was a double question. >> Yeah. Try to answer one at a time. >> All right. Go ahead. >> Well, does that qualify you for the additional 5%. Can you use that as an LI as as a rain garden or as a retention galleys or the Is that >> does the state consider that as >> Yes, that's why I did the calculations to prove that we could make >> Okay. >> Give them the extra 5%. >> Okay. >> All right. Anybody any other concerns? >> No. I I would just I think traditionally you when you talk about a leeching galley or a rain garden, it's away from the lake wall. I you're not using it in this particular application, I don't think, but I think that's what you're getting. >> Well, we understand that it's the

086best the cleanest water coming off the roof. Gary's cleaned that up, cleared that up. And but I'm just wondering if by putting it into that gravel, does that qualify you, any homeowner, for the additional 5% allowable? >> I believe it does because we're infiltrating the water back into the ground before it makes it to the lake water. And and we're filtering that water three times now. Once there's going to be fabric underneath the perforated pipe, foot below that, there's going to be another layer of fabric. And then at the 4 foot level, there's even another layer before it makes it down to the weeole makes it to the lake. It'll it'll not only infiltrate the water back into the ground, but it'll filter it filter in clean water and before it enters the lake. So,

087we had this twice last month, you and and Stanley both putting the the roof leaders into the gravel and I don't remember seeing that as long as I've been here. Well, what the prior commissions were doing and asked a lot of them to do and there's a reason why this stone is there is that when they were rebuilding their stone walls they would always ask say it's not a requirement but we're asking this of you could you put a twoft wide buffer of crushed stone right behind the wall and you know most of the applicants wanting to get their stuff approved would would would agree with that but this is one of those instances and I want to use it to take advantage of the fact that not only if this was just stone it

088would be one thing but the layers of fil can't show you the photos the layers of filter fabric um actually >> so this is this is a system we're going to start seeing >> enhanced >> a lot I guess >> well I I and I and I spread it out both ends instead of dumping it all into one >> no it's good so it would I'm trying >> talking in general I'm trying to but >> there there's been talk about infiltrators and and other things but there are some properties on the lake to work with. There's some properties on the lake it can't work depending on the level of the water and you have to bury those leeching galls and you know can't bury them then they're not going to be able to do a

089lot of ledges. So finding a place to do something like this is I think better than rain gardens to be honest with >> you know rain gardens introduce nitro and all different nutrients that it picks up and overflows and then that goes into the lake and at least this has no chance of that happening. >> Are there any other questions from anybody? >> I I just have a question. Um >> and forgive me if you said this is the last meeting Rob. But I wasn't seated then. Um there's a little bit of a grade on the driveway, the existing driveway that I assume is going to carry over to the new driveway unless I mean I can see there's looks like at least a five foot differential. Um and you have a drain on the

090south you have the the water draining on the south side of the house and I see a little drain by an arrow. Um, is that just draining into the yard with the assumption that it will percolate >> here >> on the north side? >> Yeah, >> the south side. >> It's extremely flat and we have it swale. There's there's only a 4ft grade from the front of the house to the rear of the house. It's going to be extremely flat. be it won't even make the lake that water. So there's not enough of a water shed there for it to make the lake because there's two catch basins. One directly in front of the property and one on the property which usually >> Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. Where is that catch basin? >>

091Oh, right here. >> And there's there's this one and there's this one. Currently, this one sits in the middle of the >> Right. >> And we've removed it from the asphalt. >> You're going to expose it >> and and put it uh So this way we don't have that direct run off of silts and sands and all that other stuff making it and they're carrying other nutrients that we don't want in the lake. >> So we have an opportunity here to take advantage of the property by when I always attack the lake property. I always try to make everything less nonconforming than it already is. >> In this case the impervious surface was extremely nonconforming. You know, if I knew that wasn't organized, I had my stand. >> It went from 48 to 39. >>

092All this blue >> Yeah. >> is as exist, >> right? >> So, the basin is right here and it picks up everything because that's where everything goes. So now at least it'll have a chance to get the grass between asphalt and that middle considerable. >> Great. >> I saw a lot of grass on the right side, the north side of the house as opposed to the other side >> here. Now there's even more. So this is what you had before, what you see in white, right? Now we have all of >> all of this. All the way. >> Okay. All right. All right. Any other concerns on the part of the commission? Questions? >> All right. Do we have a motion for approval and uh keep in mind the bond and and if there are

093any conditions of approval? So, let's make a motion to approve first. I'll make a motion to approve IWWC 25-17 for 734 Lake Drive. uh the applicants Richard Nardelli. >> Is there a second? >> Second, Jeff. Uh >> no. As far as conditions, I don't believe there are any conditions for this. In terms of a bond, >> we're not doing any waterfront. So that their bond would be under, you know, the build the building and zoning or something else. Right. So no bond require. >> You're going you're digging some trenches right up to the to the lake wall. Yeah, we are doing right at the lake wall there's work. >> Okay. >> I don't $1,000 >> $1,000. Okay. >> And if they have a good erosion and sedimentation plan >> and it's pretty flat. >> We

094do have it completely all lower. >> I All those in favor of approval >> unanimous. Okay. Thank you very much. All right. Uh, the next application 25- 18. The applicant is Sean Senzi Alley, 504 East Wakefield Boulevard. Um being the public hearing is still open and is continued then um we'll continue the application itself until next month. Is that it's technically is it our request or because it's public hearing is still >> public hear you have 35 days to close. Yeah. So you're good. You just continue the >> So this will be continued 25-8. Is there a motion, Maryanne? >> Sure. I'll make a motion to uh continue the public hearing for application IWWC25- >> continue the application because the public hearing is open. >> Right. >> That's really okay. Second. >> Second. >> Doesn't

095matter Gary. >> All those in favor of continuing unanimous. Okay. Thank you very much. The next applicant is 25-9 Evan McDermad at 832 East Wakefield Boulevard and he wants to repaint repoint the existing wall. >> Yes. So if you remember correctly, uh, Mr. McDermott is in Georgia. Um, and so we have him on teams. I think he can hear. And if you want to go ahead and speak, Evan, we want to just make sure that we can hear you. >> Evan, can you hear us? >> We can't hear you. Is his mic off? >> Is your microphone on? >> Oh, I can hear him just Oh, you know what? It's probably a settings problem on my end. Hold on. I'm sorry because I need to get it to this to the TVs. >> Yeah. Try

096that. >> Now we can see you all. >> We're good now. >> All right. First question. Are there any Did you leave any horses in that trailer? >> Boy, he's pushing me around a little bit. >> Yeah. No, that's a that's a big trailer, though, isn't it? >> Is it empty? I don't want to call animal control. >> I think he's going to move furniture in that. I don't think he's taking animals anymore. That's a >> All right. Moving. >> Anyway, talk to us and tell us what you exactly want to do. Any difference from last month? >> No sir. We are still on the track to get some cement towards the bottom of the seaw wall which will be exposed for the first time in 5 years. Um I've had a couple contractors come

097by. Uh some of them don't think there's even that much work to do at all, which was kind of pleasant, but I would like to have someone go down there and take a good look. we get the low draw the low draw down. Yeah. So, basically, we're just trying to get some cement in between the rocks. Um the walls in actually very good condition. It's just uh I'm trying to get ahead of uh any situations, potential situations going forward and take take advantage of the opportunities of the large drone. >> I happen to I visited your site and I agree. I didn't see a whole lot of need to do very much there. But again, the applications before us, anybody with any opinion on this? >> No, it looks good. >> Yeah, very straightforward. >>

098Do we need any bond because he's going to be on the lake bed? >> Maintenance? >> No, I don't I don't think there's no bond. >> No, but I think same question as before. We want him to protect the lake bed when he's standing on it, working on it. >> Yeah. >> So, the condition would be to use >> plywood or something. Plywood is probably the most common. >> Get plywood shoes for all the kids, too. You touched the bottom of the lake. >> What do we do with it? >> You walk in the lake. >> All right. Who wants to make a motion? >> Frank, you said you want to make it. >> I didn't say. >> Oh, okay. >> All right. I'll do it. Motion. Motion to approve. IWWC25-9 uh 832 East Wakefield

099Boulevard repointing of existing lake wall. >> I'll second it. >> All those in favor. It's unanimous. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. We appreciate your patience and uh have a have a great night. You guys are working over time. >> Hope your wife is well. >> All right. Thank you so much. >> You're welcome. Bye. Bye. >> You guys have a good evening. >> Likewise. >> Thank you, Jeremy. >> Next application is uh the town of Winchester uh 25-20. Uh we closed the public hearing on this. So, are there any other concerns or questions regarding this? >> Yeah. No, they did a very good job. Anybody from uh the town want to say last minute anything? >> Nothing. >> All right, we have a motion. Motion to approve. I WWC 25-20 town of Winchester

100uh construct wetland for drainage along Birdsall Street. >> There a second. >> Gary, >> all those in favor of a bond condition. >> We have a condition. >> Condition. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Um, you want to read it into the record? Um, how did we word that exactly? That >> hard pipe, hard pipe overflow. >> Egg wall and out. >> Say it again. Say it again, Frank. >> An exist proposed egg wall and outall pipe from the wetlands connected to the existing training system. >> Okay. Very good. >> All right. Thank you. >> Anything else? No bond. >> Okay. All those in favor of approval, it's unanimous. Thank you very much. >> You're welcome. >> I don't need my lap. >> I We've got the plans in the portal. >> Perfect. >> Yeah. >> I

101just again from an awareness point of view, we have all of new business and agent determinations and everything else on the agenda. We have about an hour, so >> I'll be quick. >> Be my guest. >> Last time you mentioned I was talking too fast, and that was the reason I was talking fast because >> you're taking up some of your time, so let's go. >> for the record, my name is Robert Kabell. I'm a senior project manager with Haley Ward. >> And you're here representing the applicant for 25-23 Richard and Paula Knight. >> Yes. >> 229 West Wakefield Boulevard. And the proposal is to construct a new storage building with a deck above the roof line and associated site and storm water improvements. >> Okay, introduce yourself again. >> Once again, this is Robert

102Pabella. I'm a senior project manager with Haley Ward. I'm here representing um Richard and Paula Knight. Uh the plan you have on the screen right now is existing conditions and as you that's all that is go to the next sheet please. >> All right. This is the demolition and removal plan. All that area that you see that dark gray is all as >> Use your mouse. Oh, you don't have one. >> I'm sorry. >> That gray area around the building is is is all asphalt and all of that asphalt is going to be removed. So, uh, there's a shed up in the upper leftand corner, the dark gray. That shed is getting removed and replaced with a smaller shed. Um, so as far as removal goes, there's a set of wood steps and concrete steps.

103They're coming out. The side entrance, it says a roofed stoop over there next to the bulkhead. That's going to be uh removed as well. Uh, so we're getting rid of a lot of impervious up around the building that has been contributing to issues in the front yard, but they have a drain there now. So proposed is the next sheet. So, the applicant is proposing uh a deck over uh a storage area and it is only 320 square ft and it's going to be built into the hillside in front of the building. So, the reason that we put it there is for for most prudent and feasible spot that we could put it. putting it on his property across the street would really be closer to the lake and even be more of a problem with

104you with wetlands. We don't we don't want to start digging you know 10 ft off the lake. So then we thought about well can he put his storage area behind the house and though the grades there don't really work for that it's very very steep behind the house and we have he has water that uh sometimes comes down there it's only intermittent and so by removing the roof and porch next to the bulkhead initial plan was to build a deck uh and the deck meets all the requirements for a deck in the HLD. It's 9 ft. It's further than 9 ft off each of the sideyards. And I do have the 20 foot setback line running right in front of the deck. So that's the 20 foot line. So the deck is conforming. However, the

105storage facility underneath it is nonconforming. So um that's why that's a whole ZBA issue. So we we pushed it back into the hillside as far as we can while making the stairs and the new entrance into the house in the front of the house. And then we added some storm water features and a bio swell to control uh storm water runoff that he's he currently has. So um behind the house there's water. It's under it's uh underground water that is is sometimes gets into the cellar and we're trying to look for a way to kind of move that that water away from there. So we have a perforated pipe going along the back side of the building and it stops being perforated as it make it makes its way around the corner between the shed

106and the building and it's solid and then it dumps into the bioell which there's a detail of on this was sheet five. So, uh, you could see the bio swell. It has a yard drain in there. So, what we're what we've done is there's a a mulch filter layer. Uh, you could see it down here, a section through the bioell. They have a a granular granular fill wrapped in filter fabric uh at the bottom around the pipe. Um, >> can you point to that if you can? >> That's sheet five. >> Little lower. Keep going. Right there in the middle. So, right there is the base of the bioil. And we have a prepared soil mixture of 50% sand, 20% compost, and 30% top soil as a filter layer. And water will go through that

107filter layer and then into the gra through the fabric into the gravel perforated pipe uh to take the water out. Now, not only do we have that there and we're going to allow that water to infiltrate back into the ground rather than just running down the right now there's two discharges that just discharge from one neighbor has it discharging from their property to the property line and this neighbor has it discharged over to their property line and they just dis they're just daylight. So at least this now we have a chance, you know, because they're going to do something here. We have a chance to actually clean the water now and get it back get it into the ground. So one of the things I did was I raised the yard drain within the bioell

108to to provide at least not only as it's filtering, but provide at least another 9 in to a foot of water before it even starts to go down the drain and and in and back into the pipe and then uh down to the area that It was daylighting before but we are protecting that which it has no protection. If you see on the other side if you go back to sheet three the bio swell discharge over there to the corn goes out towards the green there and we have a um crust protection road screen there and you could see the yard drain and and the neighbor's yards drains. They just daylight there now with no protection whatsoever. So, we're trying to limit any water to even get there. I'm hoping most of it will infiltrate

109into the ground. And not only is the bioell have those two layers, but it also has a perforated pipe below it to gather the water and even further make give it a better opportunity to get into the ground and infiltrate the ground. So, uh the impervious which is on sheet four looks like this. So if we can get both of them in there at the same time. Okay. So uh it's a decrease uh of not much but goes from 17% to 16.5% by removing all the asphalt from around the building and you know the roof uh and then you know the deck uh the building under the deck or the storage facility that's going under the deck is I mean it would be a storage facility and the deck is allowed by ZBA rule wrecked.

110Uh it would be a storage facility anyway under the deck once you built the deck if they wanted it to be, but too close to the road. They're not here all the time. Worried a little bit about that. The other reason why they were worried about it across the street, too. So, you know, they just have a closed building under there with uh a ramp, a little tiny ramp and a a grass ramp, by the way. And uh because that was something that was asked for previously. um and uh double doors down there. So, the construction uh is there's enough erosion control to satisfy uh that we won't make it to the street. And even if we do make it there, you'll see there's an existing catch basin on sheet three uh in the bottom

111uh southeast corner of the property. There's an existing catch base, not on his property, but it's on town property. And uh this catch basin does not go across the street to this other catch basin. This catch basin runs along parallel to West Wakefield and discharges over down at Pratt's house just about two houses down and then crosses >> on the lake side of West. >> Is that functioning? Do you know? >> Yes. >> Okay. No, I just saw it was filled with water. I was like >> is that roadway always is filled? So Mr. night since he's purchased the property goes in and the with the catch basin across the street. He says he's know he's every spring he's constantly pulling out all the sand that's in there and trying to just keep it open

112all the time. He maintains it even though it's not his >> from a town perspective. I mean maybe Jim at the end of this meeting can attest that they something doesn't look right with those. you know, they're there. They they they're town own it's town and and >> so we're protecting those during construction even though I don't believe the any you know because how small this construction site is. I don't believe any any um there's any problem with protecting the lake both in the permanent proposed situation and during construction temporarily because for during construction we have enough erosion control in here >> uh we're protecting the basins we have a concrete wash wash out area I know it says HB but there'll be straw bales there and I don't know this was before we this

113is before uh the you know we were talking about the rule change and then um but those will be straw bales. As a matter of fact, if you do next this you're only accepting the application this month. So if we get to next month then there is by then I'll have those changed over to straw bales before >> submit them early >> meeting. Oh the reason I'm first on the agenda is because I submitted this over a month ago I think in April. >> Okay. So you're making up the imperous surface that you're removing with the building. >> Yeah, for the mo for the most part it does. >> If the building wasn't, we've decreased it a little bit, but if if there was no storage facility going under this and we were just to

114put crush stone there, we would be decreasing it by a lot. >> But considering the storage building underneath is going to have a roof. >> Yeah. uh and water is just going to flow back towards this uh lawn drain picked up and discharged up to the bioail. So we we taken a property that allows the water to just kind of run off the property and down to these drains and tried to minimize it by infiltrating some of it into the ground and releasing whatever makes it, you know, above the yard grain. uh and releasing that and then once again cleaning it again as it as it discharges where it's currently discharging now. >> Okay. Any other concerns or questions on the part of from the commission to the applicant? >> Just uh one question. The

115structure obviously going to be all concrete concrete walls. >> No, it's stone. >> So you're doing it out of stone. >> He's going to have an arch with a key. It's going to be a stone. >> Okay. So it's all stone work. >> Okay. So it's eight foot tall walls in the back side of it. And what are you proposing for footing drains behind it? >> Close to that um slab on grade. They're not going to put any footing drains unless there's >> The back wall is not 8 ft tall. >> No, it's not. It's not going to be in the end. Let's see. >> You have a finished floor of 8.88 and you have the elevations up top at 897. >> Well, 898.7. Yes. in the in the front where that but and it's

116going to step because this >> No, I understand the sides will step down >> but just by code we have you have to have some sort of footing drain behind it, don't you? >> We'll have them for next plan. >> Okay. And I just that was part of it. And where are you going to discharge that footing drain? >> Yeah, we'll have them. >> That was it. >> Thank you, madam. Anybody? >> Jeff, anything? I have a motion to accept. I'll make a motion to accept I WWC uh 25-23 uh for 229 West Wakefield Boulevard. >> You have a second. All those in favor of acceptance. >> Thank you. >> Unanimous. See you next month. >> See you next month. >> All right. Um next application is 25-24 Michael Block uh 928 Main Street. um

117to it's a postf facto after the fact application for the removal of an auto business building and ren regrade the area. Uh Michael is not able to join us this evening. Uh he's aware that the application would simply be accepted. Uh so he plans to be here next uh next month. He and his wife both have COVID. I said just stay away. Now, my understanding, maybe I'm right or wrong, when he says auto business, this was an old gas station. >> Mainway Auto uh was the signage that was there. I don't know how long it's been out of business, but it's been quite a while. >> Okay. >> I'm pretty sure it was gas station. >> Oh, it definitely was. >> Barber owned it. >> The site's been remediated. >> All right. Is there a

118motion to accept without conversation? >> Wait. Um, go ahead. >> No, I thought there maybe was going to be some discussion. >> No. I just wanted to clarify for public interest that it's not an auto business. It was really a gas station. >> It was. >> The other thing is obviously in your notes you said it was an incomplete application. We could >> as of last week. I think we've since received the application materials. Correct. >> Most of the application materials. I'm not certain if we've gotten the uh contractor license, I think, is what we were waiting on. >> Yeah. Just for discussion, uh this was a result of a demolition without a permit, >> right? Uh so this is it's there's a lot going on here. Uh but I did require him to immediately

119install silt fencing and come in with an erosion control plan uh for us because of the uh location to not the um water course in the back of the trailer park which is the same area but actually the water course on the other side of the road is under 100 ft. Uh, so we're we're working with him to try to make it as right as possible after the fact. >> Will we have a complete application next month? >> We hope to. >> If not, then why? Please don't put it on the agenda. >> Staff can't make that decision. Uh, we could tell you we feel it's incomplete and you could not accept it. >> We say they're not accepted until applications index when? >> Yes, you can do that. We cannot. >> Yes. >> Make

120your motion. I would recommend that. Okay. Application, I'm sorry. I WWC 2524 for 928 Main Street. We do not accept the application at this time until approved proposal. >> It's incomplete. >> Is incomplete. And until proposal is accepted by the town and submitted. >> Is there a second? >> Second. Gary, all those in favor of not accepting the application, I want to be sure of the hand. Maryanne and Okay, it's unanimous. >> Um, can I just add though if it was a gas station and it wasn't remediated that anything >> that anything related to the like if there are still tanks underground etc etc that we need to understand >> the condition of that that's part of the application. >> You know what though? Let's see what the application says and when it comes in

121then we can have a a discussion. >> But if they're going to talk to the applicant anyway. >> Okay. >> It was definitely a gas station. There's no doubt about that. >> Right. So we should know the condition of the tanks, right? >> Absolutely. >> If there's even tanks there. >> It should have been pulled out of the 30 mark. Who knows? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Our next application 25-27 Jim B. >> Wait a minute. >> It's another incomplete application. >> Correct. >> Jim Beyond 620 East Wakefield Boulevard add stone veneer to existing top of the lake wall. >> Should that word be there? >> Is the applicant here? I think so. >> No, >> I could I this one you couldn't drive down. I mean, you could, but I didn't drive down there either.

122>> We don't really know if it's >> completed full front veneer or >> application. There's no survey. There's no plan. >> What's that? >> Yeah, I would imagine it's a full front veneer. I I guess that what I'm saying is we we don't have to accept this one either. >> Any suggestions from the >> Well, my question to the applicant was how thick the stone veneer was going to be and if he had a survey of his property because as we know not all walls are completely up to the property line. So, does he have enough room to do that without encroaching over his boundary? So kind of a stickler here, but knowing that we want surveys and we want to make sure people are staying within their boundaries, I think it's fair questions. >>

123So the suggestion will be be to accept without prejudice or not to accept it because it's incomplete. >> That that's your call. >> Since it's real right on the lake, I said not accept. You don't know what's going to leak. >> Is that a picture? >> But the problem with with some of this >> Wait, before we get into the discussion, do we want to accept it and talk about it or do we want to not accept it? Then let's spend the time next month talking about it. >> Yeah. I think if there's no survey, we shouldn't accept it. >> Well, I mean, do we need I'm looking at these pictures. I mean, do we need a I mean, it's a very established fairly >> wall. I don't know if we need necessarily a survey

124for it. It's I mean, from the picture, you can see what it is, right? >> Well, I mean, I I guess I'm speaking to Jeff's point about not knowing whether or not the work will encroach beyond its boundary line. >> Right. The question is the wall is there. We've got a concrete >> plane and he's going to add four four inches of veneer stone in front of it. So, four inches further into the And so that's a call for you all to make really not for us. We requested a survey so that we could verify you know the location of the map >> location everything is according to the boundaries of the neighbors and everything else >> but it's not >> I think that was a response that you got right >> yeah one and

125a half I'm sorry one and a half I don't know I don't know where I came up >> you know but it's not uncommon to simply accept it and not discuss it and then next month begin the conversation as to what we want. Yeah, I'm fine with that. >> I think that's where I'm leaning. >> You've had correspondence with him. >> I I asked him these questions in the portal. Uh he called in spoke with Shane either earlier today or yesterday. I can't remember exactly. Uh he answered, you know, how thick the veneer was going to be, but he I'm not sure if he has a survey yet. So, >> you know, one thing if you look in this, it says I want to add veneers to the lake wall in front of my project

126protect the wall from the elements and improvements that But he's saying if it only do it take two to three days. I'm wondering if it's a cap >> because I mean I feel like it's put a veneer across the whole front or just a cap. >> Seems like >> it would be a pretty big job. >> We don't know. We don't know where he wants to put the veneer, do we? >> Yeah, that's what I mean. That's why I'm wondering is he got a description because that's going to take more than >> couple days. Relate to you why he's not going to be here. >> Let's let's limit the conversation to one at a time. Go ahead, G. Uh, Russ, >> well, my only thought was looking at the picture just by default. It's a

127pretty long wall. >> Do we want to accept the application or not? That's the question. >> All right, then I won't say. >> No, no. You want to accept it? Make a motion to accept it and we'll not discuss it. Yes. >> And they lose a month's worth of time because they don't know what we want. >> I say don't accept because I don't know what it is. >> Okay, then make a motion. >> I would say I don't know. I make a motion not to accept IWWC-25-27 for Beyond at 620 East Wakefield Boulevard for lack of >> incomplete. >> Is there a second? >> Second, >> Jeff. All those in favor of not accepting is unanimous. Thank you very much. Application W IWWC25-29. The applicant is Jocelyn Gold Brenson at 522 West Wakefield Boulevard.

128>> Oh, look at this. Live bodies. >> There you go. And the the proposal is to remove overgrowth brush and vines on the property and to remove dead trees and limbs. Please introduce yourselves. >> Hi, I'm Jackie Goldson. Pete Colbrronson. >> Okay. Talk to us. >> Hi. Uh, yeah. So, we just bought the property at 522 West Wakefield Boulevard in December, and it's pretty rundown property. Um, I think it was on the market for about two years. Um, I don't think it's been occupied for 15 years or so. So, it's quite a bit of land, just just overgrown. And as we think about like what we even want to do with the property, it's hard to even get started without even like knowing what we have there. So, we would like to just remove, it's

129not a clearing of land or an excavating of land or anything like that. It's removing brush, overgrown vines. Um, all big healthy trees staying. Um, as far as like actual tree removal, there's like two big dead trees, so those are sizable. Um but otherwise it's just shrub brush and just you know all of that. >> Are you removing the stumps? >> Nope. >> The only damage that is going to get >> correct. At this point we kind of just want to see what we're we're dealing with. Correct. >> Yes. So the issue with this was that the project was brought to my attention by actually one of our zoning commissioners, but there was no erosion controls up. Uh a lot of the cutings had entered the water body. Uh they were still there when I

130inspected. So we put a stop work order basically and requested the soil and erosion control plan. Uh this property is very wet. Uh so it gets torn up pretty easy and you know all that. So >> diligent about what you're doing as far as protecting I don't know how far you go. >> Well, it's already partially done. >> This is quite a property, right? >> No, >> right on the >> There's already There's already the straw waddles. >> Oh. Oh, okay. That property. >> So, there's already straw waddles around a bunch of it. A good section of >> it. upset the ground. >> So that property since you bought it, have you been in the water and have you stood on the lake bed? >> My kids >> swam a couple times >> because it's

131pretty mushy, right? You have like a kind of swamplike condition there. >> Um, it depends on where you are. There's part of it that's actually pretty sandy and then there's half sandyish and half is kind of swampy or soft. Yeah. >> Yeah. How much waterfront do you have? >> It's It's inside of the It's right next to >> I know where it is. Yeah, it was on it today. >> A lot of water. >> Yeah, it seems like it. You don't go over to where that bridge is. Is that to the neighbors? >> Yeah. No, that's that's ours. >> Oh, that's yours. Wow. >> I brought these for the next meeting. Shane asked for like the pool size and said I could give them to her today. But so I do have nine copies of

132the big thing if you want to. >> All right. Our concern tonight is, you know, accepting the application and asking for clarification and an understanding of what they want to do. And if we have any concerns, then we should articulate those concerns now so that they're prepared next month. And if we don't have any concerns, then they'll come back next month and we'll vote. So any concerns, that's the question. >> Well, can we get the plans >> or you want to just put them in our packet next week? Next month. >> Um, yeah. I just I would like to just that is a specific area in the lake. It's a little shallower, has a lot of nutrients that come into it from Suckerbrook. Um and yeah, anything that could add nutrients to the area uh

133you know is is would create an further negative impact on that area. And we did have our first cyanobacteria bloom last year. So we want to be very careful about that. So, anything that comes before us in the next meeting, just have that in mind when you propose your project. >> Well, projects is brush clearing, right? I mean, >> yeah, I'm not Yeah, I'm just because I was out of sight. I just They put down waddles for some erosion control, which not too much land has been disturbed, and nobody wants to get in there with equipment when it's really wet. >> So, I don't see what we're really asking for. I mean, they put erosion, they put stuff there, and they're cutting out they're cutting back >> vegetation. To me, I would >> accept the

134application. >> I mean, I would make a motion to accept it, but that's only one. >> You got to do that, >> right? >> Just wonder if we take the maps now or wait till next month. >> Yeah. No, I mean, I'd rather I' >> I'd like to make a proposal to uh accept uh applic application IWWC25-29 for 522 West Wakefield Boulevard. Uh, remove overgrowth, brush, and vines on property. Remove dead trees and limbs. Erosion control is already there. >> Is there a second? >> All right. You know, a question that I have to ask is, do we need a public hearing? >> No. >> I said I'm going to ask it. Okay. We're all >> Okay. Um, all those in favor of accepting the application, >> it's unanimous. Just leave what you have. If

135you'd like to, we'll meet with them and discuss it with Jeff and then leave it with them. It's up to you. >> Okay. >> I mean, we're not going to wind up with it tonight anyway. So, to meet >> to review it and yeah, we'll take it off. >> Okay. Thank you for your patience. Okay, >> next. This is accepted. >> Next application is 25-32. The applicant is Jen Pera, uh 378 East Wakefield Boulevard, and we build two peers under existing dock. I for the record, >> I'm Jen Berggo, 378 East Wakefield. >> Okay. And you want to talk to us about your project, Jen? Um, I think the picture describes it the best. It's just um a dock. Jeff came out and took a look this winter when the water was down. Um, and

136there's two peers at the top part. They're like roughly 4 feet by 4 foot. Um, and you can see on the front one it it's really falling apart um with the wave action over the years. Um, so my contractor is just going to take it apart and rebuild it. Exactly as it is. >> Jack up the dock. Yep. >> Applied that. >> Yep. >> This commission made me put a canal lever in. >> Do you want to? >> It's going to be a little hard to get down there. Big crane. Looking at the picture, you're going to take the whole >> Yeah, I can do it. >> You're going to take the whole all those rocks out and then start from scratch basically. >> Put them back together. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Putting Humpty

137Dumpy back together again. >> Yes. >> You going to step on a lake bed? >> Bare feet. I don't think it's the stepping that we're worried about. It's the materials on the liquid. >> If I would understand something, look at this. Plywood. >> I didn't suggest plywood. >> You do have to put some kind something by the wall. >> Yeah. Will there do you know at this point is there any need to be digging into the lake beds or anything that you take out >> the replacement will be on the surface of the lake floor up not down. >> Okay. >> Any other questions? >> What is the scope exactly the like the progression? Don't we usually have a progression of work of what that describe? Maybe I'm missing something that describes it a little

138bit better. >> The application is doesn't have a a sequence is what you were asking for. >> Yeah. I mean, typically we do that where we don't know if is it going to be some of the questions we ask. Is it going to be hand dug? Are you >> It is by hand. >> Yeah. Like usually we have a scope for the next one. We have a a sort of a scope and a narrative but okay not more numbers. >> Yeah. like we usually require that correctly. What what are what are we really doing step? >> More detailed narrative. What are we doing? What are we doing to protect >> um you know the the the lake bed as we're doing this work? >> And you're recommending um tarps. >> Well, no. parts. >> Okay.

139>> I'd like to see which pier he's going to work work on first >> because I want I want to make sure that the deck on top of it is secured that you don't have more of a problem. >> Okay. >> So, if you'd let us know which one first. >> How How is he going to jack up the duck >> with jacks on the lake bed? >> I don't know. >> What? >> Huh? that way. >> Well, he could do I mean, as far as a sequence, you could do the first you could do you could jack it up off the existing second one, lift the whole He's not taking the whole thing out, right? >> You could you could jack it up so you had a little room under the first one, work

140on the first one, lower that to it, and then Right. >> Let's not design Let's not design the project. >> Yeah. No, I'm just saying, >> you know, it's you know, >> that's all we want to see is the sequence of be in the sequence. Just a sequence of events. >> Any other concerns? >> All right. Do we have a motion to accept? I'll make a motion to accept I WWC 2532. Rebuild two peers under dock at 378 East Wakefield Boulevard. >> There a second. Thank you. All those in favor of acceptance. >> I'm sorry. Second. >> Frank. Uh, it's unanimous. Thank you very much. All right. Stay right there. Our next application is 25-33. The applicant is Katherine Perga. The address is 360 East Wakefield Boulevard. And uh it's to replace existing rip wrap

141lake wall with masonary wall. >> For the record, you want to introduce both yourselves. >> I'm Jen Pera, >> representing >> Katherine Pera. >> Okay. >> And I'm David Batista. I'm licensed professional engineer with Haley Ward here in Winston >> and I'm the engineer of record on the project. >> Okay. Um, we prepared this uh detailed plan. Uh, Kathy Perga owns uh a 1.9 acre property on at 360 East Wakefield. It's a long skinny rectangular shaped lot uh between East Wakefield Boulevard and Lake and um she's got about 180 ft of frontage. And I think if we run through the pictures that I took uh back in December of 23 during the draw down to give you some ideas of what things look like um on the lake bed. Uh most of this uh site

142um if Jeremy can flip through the pictures is solid bedrock uh emanating out of the you can see the sheets of bedrock when you walk up and down the shoreline. So the plan is to uh and if we could hold that picture right there. U the entire shoreline right now is is protected with that modified rip wrap that you see stacked up on a on a slope and u that was actually a permitted uh project from decades ago or years ago or whatever. And you can see what happens to the stones. They kind of wave action. They're they're not large enough to prevent they're they're mobile in the face of some of the waves that we see there. So, um Kathy Pera would like to construct a stonemasonry wall right where that rip wrap is.

143And so, this our surveyor Tim Wy uh located the shoreline and the wall will be just behind the shoreline. It's sort of an irregular shape, but you when you go out there, well, you can In the picture here, there's different color of stones between stones that are always underwater and stones that are typically exposed to the atmosphere. And so he located the the changeover spot in many locations and connected the dots to create the shoreline and we're just behind that. So, our plan would be to build a wall that is 2 feet higher than the um water line, the present uh normal pool elevation of High Lake, and that rip wrap might only go up a foot or so uh higher right now. So, the wall will be sticking up 2 feet above the water

144and um it would be pinned to the bedrock all along the frontage. Uh the plan is to build this in phases uh over the course of uh we we planned out four different phases. So roughly 45 ft per phase. Uh some may be a little bit longer, some may be a little bit shorter. U whether we do them in four sequential years or weight uh because of weather or whatever, that's really going to be up to the applicant as long as a permit's still valid. uh and uh so 40 feet of wall will be constructed. There will probably be some form of enclosure or tent uh built over the wall, maybe a 10x10 type of structure so that the masonry in progress can be kept warm overnight, prevent freezing. You want you don't want the

145mortar to freeze uh until it's cured. So, uh, that's typically a cold weather scenario. And that little shelter would move along the shoreline as the mason works from one end of the faith to the other. And once he's done with that, then we're going to back fill the wall with crushed stone. And we're going to reuse that rip wrap on top of the wall um as sort of a level with the top of the wall going back into the upland by three feet. so that any waves that crest over the wall will will be the rip wrap will protect the ground there. Uh this is all going to be hand work. You can see in these pictures that the site is heavily vegetated. Um if you drive by there in a boat this time of

146year, you can barely see the house because the hemlocks are kind of growing down. And so contractor is going to have to work around them. The the owner does not want to cut any trees or even any limbs. So, it's going to be sort of a cumbersome project. Um, there's really no convenient way to get machinery down here. So, it's it's all manual labor. Every everything's going to be hand shoveling and moving rocks around, wheelbarrowing materials up and down u to to get to this work site. The uh area the only area for staging. Um if we could go to the plants. Um maybe that show you the plants. Uh so the uh you can see how irregular the shoreline is. Um and you know we're going to do roughly 25% per year uh in

147four different phases. And uh you'll see a driveway that comes up from the bottom uh with a black dash line around it. And the only real area to stockpile materials is right. under that driveway. So, we're going to use that area for staging of um you know, masonry stone, masonry bags of mortar or whatever, u crushed stone, and then they're just going to have to wheelbarrow it down to the the shoreline. Uh there will be a filter sock going between the blue patio that you see on the right next to the house and in a shed. Uh that will kind of protect the uh shoreline area from the the stockpile area. And then um there'll be a piece of that filter sock that's sort of movable every day. So while the contractor's there working, he

148can pick it up and move it out of the way. And then at the end of the day or Friday before he goes home for the weekend, you can stake it back down. Um we also are proposing a filter sock out in what's the lake bed and we came up with a detail. there's, you know, it's primarily bedrock out there. And so we came up with a detail to just lay the filter sock along the the bedrock and then periodically uh take some of that rip wrap stone and sort of weight it down so that if runoff comes down off the hillside and tries to go in toward the lake, then um at least the stones will prevent that filter sock from moving and floating away. Uh so we have an erosion control barrier there.

149um in places. Uh there's some like between the house and and where you see that little stairway there, there's some arrows. Um we've as we're going to ask the contractor to u sort of slightly dig a trough through the woods to guide any runoff away from his little work area in that particular phase. Uh just as a sort of a erosion control measure to keep water out of his face. Um if necessary. We have details on this plan for a pump facility like a well point and a filter bag. Uh I don't think the contractor is going to um hit a lot of groundwater. Uh there's it's very shallow to bedrock to begin with. So like for example on a day like this morning, there might be water bleeding out of the bank because of

150all the rain we got the day before that will go away. So I don't think there's this is going to be like a a serious groundwater problem, but we do have provisions in the erosion control manual uh for that case. So, and we have a very detailed erosion control plan with a 20 or 21 item sequence that explains exactly how the contractor is going to build this uh in for each phase. And uh it's going to be sort of a low impact kind of project because it's all manual labor, no macharing, no heavy cutting or anything like that. So do >> you need a deep draw down phase? >> No. No. Because like for example in 23 that wasn't a deep draw down, right? It was only 3 ft down. And those pictures that I

151showed you were >> So that's basically what the contractor is going to be working with. um this condition that you see right there. >> Um >> in the process of rebuilding the wall, is there any conversation with the contractor thought about taking any of the rock or the look some big boulders? Go back to that one picture. Those rocks that are further away from the wall, removing them or they're staying >> they're staying. You're not touching that. Okay. Part of nature >> is that >> it's part of nature. >> Yeah. >> And where do you propose beginning? Which end of the uh >> Do you have a preference? >> It's more there there are places where the water really under undercuts um the shoreline and so it's not necessarily a start at one. >> You

152can do 10 feet here and 10 somewhere else. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Do like the the worst part first. Any weoles in the wall? >> Any wee holes in the wall? >> Relieve hydraulic pressure >> on it because there's only going to be two feet exposed. >> Okay. >> Um but we could certainly add them >> just out of curiosity obviously. So you put crush stone back there, but if there's any hydraulic pressure or anything. There will be hydraulic pressure on the wall, but it's going to be pinned into the rock and it's going to be massive enough so that the the hydraulic pressure wall toward the lake. >> How how from the top of the wall to the lake floor I know you want to go two feet above the water line, but how

153far below the water line? >> Well, if you look at that the photos, uh it varies everywhere. Um in some places maybe a foot. Um, you know, so for example, when we're right on top of these big that piece of ledge on the right side of that picture, very little, maybe a foot or a foot and a half, um, on the left side of that ledge, uh, right there, uh, you can see maybe that much uh, below water level. Um, and then if you move way over to the left um, of that picture, there may be places where the ledge is down three or four feet. So you'll have to dig it dig it out by hand >> and that's where you might encounter some ground water bleeding in from the uphill. >> You're gonna

154get water coming up from the floor also. >> Right. So that's why we have this well point and in and a filter bag uh measure there if he hits ground floor. So the the height of the wall is going to vary depending on the surface of the wedge. And if he hits down four feet digging and there's no ledge, you know, if there's a big pocket or something, then I'll have to come in there and work with uh Jen and the contractor to figure out a footing, we would put a footing. So, but it's mostly ledge from what I can see, just walking along that whole shoreline. At least 60 or 70% of that frontage is exposed. When you when you did this proposal, were you relying on pictures or did you look at it

155last year or two years ago when there was no water and the the wall was void of water that you actually saw what you're designing? >> Well, I've been there with water in the lake at normal pool elevation. I went there twice to survey the elevation of the water compared to a benchmark that the surveyor left for us. >> Well, were you there when there was no water? >> Yes. And then I was there. I took these pictures. >> Oh, those are your pictures. Okay. >> Yeah. In December of 2023. >> Oh, no. Okay. >> Yeah. So, I've seen it both ways. >> Yeah. That's why I asked. >> Yeah. >> Is there any need for an independent engineer to review this plan? >> No. It's very good design. >> What's your plan for the

156dock? >> Well, the dock >> there's no change. >> No change. You going to sit on top of the wall or you build the wall under? >> Yeah, they'll probably build some kind of a seat. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Is that dock on a pillar too like yours? >> Uh, it's on concrete pierce. >> There might be pictures. >> There's a picture of >> think it's the other way. I think it was the first one. Maybe. >> Was that the one with Tim the survey? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. There it is. >> Can't see much. >> You want to look behind you? >> Yeah, it's on pretty tall peers there. >> Is it sitting on that boulder, too? >> What you got? >> That's crazy. [Laughter] >> What you saying? That's got to

157be the deep draw down, isn't it? >> Yeah. >> Um I don't I don't remember. >> No, that that's not She has a really shallow waterfront. That looks like it's looks like it's six feet high. I don't even know what I'm looking at. >> Is that that's supposed to be a pier holding up the deck the dock? >> There's a holder there. And then you've got what? One, two, three on the land side and >> one there. >> Aren't they Aren't they like five feet tall? Five, six feet tall. >> I don't think they're that tall. >> No. Okay. >> Those rails have to be close to three feet high. >> Yeah, correct. >> There's nothing scale is strange. It's deceiving. It looks like It does look like there must I see what you mean.

158>> You know what? We're at a disadvantage >> in terms of proving this down the road because we're approving it from pictures and without the evidence of the water being missing to see the reality of what you're showing us. So, >> well, we have survey. The survey went out into the lake bed. Yes. Yes. There's grades that go out into the lake bed. So we were when we were designing the wall, we could see what the terrain looked like the whole way out into the lake and we have these pictures. We've seen it with and without water and it's a very relatively small wall except there might be some pockets where it's a little bit deeper. >> All right. Is there a motion to accept? Any other any other questions before we actually accept? >>

159You guys good? Anything? All right. Is there a motion to accept? Boulevard. >> There a second. >> I'll second. >> Thank you. Uh, all those in favor? I thank you very much. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it. >> Dave, >> good night guys. >> Not yet. >> Okay. >> All right. We're at a point now where it's 5 to 10. We said we wouldn't start any new business before that. Um, >> that's it. >> Let's be before we got five minutes. Let's be more specific. We can talk about agent determinations and not finish them. We talk about violations and not finish it. Uh, >> is there anybody else here for >> Well, Jim Jim's here, so he should speak to us. >> There's nobody else here for >> Are these folks here for an

160application? >> No, we we applications. >> Oh, all right. I thought >> would I'd like to >> All right. >> Yeah, I thought somebody else You know what I'd like to spend a couple of minutes on because that's all we have is there are two items that are of concern that are relatively new items. Last month we sort of started talking about buoys and this month on our application we're talking about or we're beginning a conversation about wakeboats. So, let's just sort of kick that around for a few minutes and sort of get a sense of where we are or where we want to go with this and um you know make the best of the time we have. We can go beyond 10:00 because we're starting this now. But let's let's keep it as

161you know you know get some information out there but let's keep it sort of brief. have to put the vote on the other pass or not >> Warmog I think you're talking about. Yeah. So there the towns have passed it uh but it's at the state level for review. >> That they're allowing it or >> no no to disallow. >> Oh >> yeah. >> Okay. Just for conversational purposes I think the maximum size of a of a A non-pontoon boat on the lake is 22 feet. >> Correct. >> Okay. Um I would think, and maybe I'm wrong, that most or many of the wakeboard boats are larger than 24 ft. >> Is that fair to say or we don't know? >> I don't know. Again, I don't I'm not sure. >> They could be, but

162not all. >> Okay. Uh we can enforce for sure the length of a lake of a boat, >> right? >> That's just we can measure. >> Yes. you know, and so the question now is the wakeboard issue, the wake boat issue. >> Okay. Um, some of the lakes are taking action on forbidding wake boats. >> Wake boats that what's the right word? >> Wake surfing boats. Because the the design of the boat is to create a wake, which in effect disturbs the lake base, the bottom of the lake. And that's something we can't allow to continue to happen if it's happening because we're here to protect the lake, not to allow people who have devices that are impacting negatively on the lake. So, I think that's a discussion that this commission has to sort of

163keep going all winter long. We're at a good point to have a discussion on it because the boats are coming out of the water beginning October 1st because that's when the draw down starts. >> But it's also the uh the deterioration of seaw walls personal seaw walls correct and the lake >> and the lake beds and it's also the seaw walls >> there's a there's a lot of research on it I think it's this is a very sort of complex issue to detangle and every lake is different um the science basically if you read all the studies that are out there and there are tons they're proliferating um They're basically generally there's a consensus that in order not to disturb the lake that the wake boarding boats have to operate in at least 20 foot

164of depth. Now, we have a pretty deep lake. So, that, you know, on its surface, you'd say, "Oh, well, we're in good shape." But the other side of the recommendation is that um you need 500 to 600 feet on either side of the boat for dissipation of the wake. And we know we've seen a lot of complaints about wave action damaging people's walls. I really think it is an all winterl long kind of project because we all have to educate ourselves about the research. We should probably meet with the Waramog people and talk about their process and figure out what their specific issues were. >> Just two points. One, you said the impact down to war is 20 feet or 50 feet. >> 20. >> Only 20. >> Yeah, it's 20. So the depth requirement

165is less of an issue on our lake than it is the dissipation issue because we're such a narrow lake. >> What is war? I know public not public the the the state D is going to look at this now. >> Yeah. They need to uh ultimately approve the ban. >> Do we have any timetable or any sense of their behavior over a period of other projects when they'll render a decision? >> I mean I don't couldn't tell you. Yeah, I couldn't tell you. >> I think this is the first lake that's done it. >> Well, again, you know, we would benefit by knowing where D stood on this. >> I mean, if we're talking about when you say 500, 600 ft, not even Third Bay meets that requirement. >> There are parts of Third Bay

166that would actually, and there are parts of Second Bay that would, but it it would require a regulation where you're asking those boats to just go straight down the middle and and then you're into a regulation issue. So, I'm just saying I'm not saying I'm for >> No, no, no. I'm just saying the way is designed. >> I mean, you Well, you are you you got the worst of it despite the narrows, >> right? But there >> But I don't I don't see anybody down Third Bay down the other end of Third Bay being any better >> if it's 5 600 feet. >> Well, I think they said >> it have to be that middle part of Third Bay, like between where Bristol Cove starts and you get like past Strong's Island, right? Like that's

167a nice long area that probably does give you that 1,200 ft either side. >> You know, we measured it today 13,400 ft wide. >> Now, these are specially designed boats with like water tanks of 300,300 gallons of water or so or whatever. >> Yeah. The marina the marina is doing a a some sort of promotion with Malibu's I think this weekend and they advertised the boat as creating oceanlike waves and that's part of their advertisement. So yes, the whole purpose of those boats is to make very big waves. >> So there's two issues right though are there two issues. One is that there's lake bed quality which I think is under this group obviously right and then there's also the issue and I don't know how this works out of impact to seaw walls or

168>> well to retain walls right are those kind of two I mean they're kind of linked but they're kind of separate aren't they >> in a sense like because there's stuff that >> they're all under our purview >> yes they are under our purview. >> Yeah. When you say they're under our purview, what what I think you're saying is that you know we can enforce using that word liberally. We can enforce the damage that a boat will cause to a seaw wall. My seaw wall, your seaw wall erosion control is under our purview. >> But is that erosion? >> We never used >> I don't think we've used erosion control that way. So if the if the wave goes over the wall, >> if there's no seaw wall, >> well then it's really erosion control.

169Yeah. >> It's a tough thing. There's a lot of research. There's a lot of studies being done like up in Maine. A lot I looked at stuff. A lot of Maine stuff is coming out. There's a lot of >> there's a lot of issues, >> but there's more to it than just the weights. You know, like I was telling Marian the other day, >> every >> I don't get bothered by the weight surfing boats whatsoever. >> Where you live, >> where I live, what I get bothered by are the regular ski boats that are 50 feet offshore looking for a flat water. >> Okay. They go by every >> You got a good spot, right? You got a great spot. But also throwing darts. You're throwing darts at a timet darts at a lot of

170people here. You can't uh And now if you have a boat that that is a wakeboard or weight >> wakebo surfing boat. Okay. That boat doesn't dissipate anything any different than a regular boat until it has ballast. So I don't believe you can >> black ball the boat. I think now you're going to start looking at saying if we're going to do this there is no weak surfing >> and Warmuk did it that way. I believe Warmuk did it that way. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I think you're right. >> No, you're Gary. You're right. It's not talking about the boat itself. It's talking about the activity. >> The activity boat if it's more than 22 ft. >> Well, yes. Yeah, that's already on the >> that's already separate. >> Next problem that we have

171all is we have rules and regulations that are in >> that are what >> we have rules and regulations that are in place. >> Yes, >> we have no 24ft boats, 26T boats. >> They launch at the boat launch. There's no enforcement. >> There's no enforcement of boats going to shore >> or those skiers >> within 50t or they're not supposed to be within 100t >> 100t. >> You know what I mean? >> Now, is that 100 feet from the dock or the shore? A lot of things we can start with here that are already in place. And by by starting with that 24 foot boats or whatever, whatever. What's it going to eliminate? It might eliminate some of the weight surfing. Those might be some of the boats that are out there that are

17224. >> Enforce what's there already. >> What's there? One of the things I was reading about in some of these reports about that they mention the turbidity of of the water that the wake boards are churning up the water on the edges which then creates the turbidity change and we have we have a record of that by like every turbidity is measured every week out there correctly in the summer or every month or something I think right so you would start to see is there an increase >> potentially in the turbidity over the last year. Whether you could relate that to the votes is another question, but there's that's one of the things these reports were saying that it's it's increasing this the sentiment turning up. So, we would probably see that >> is the

173is the clarity of the lake >> uh >> not as clear when they test in August or as they do in April or May? You would tell us that answer? >> Um >> maybe. Well, it should partially or if it doesn't rain. >> Yeah, exactly. I I that's not gonna give you any definitive because it depends on >> how Yeah. Like I I don't think that the water quality testing is going to give you any information about what the effects of wake surfing are in it. >> But it would tell you if there's a change if if you're what direction you're going in. Right. >> Maybe. But I don't know that you could really attribute it just to wind surfing boats because it depend like last year we had so much rain, >> right? So

174that was a contributing contributor. This year we've had so little rain. I think all of us probably have felt like the water's been clearer. >> So I just think there are too many uh variables for that to be a decisive test of the the the effect. Yeah, >> you know, one thing too is that um I believe you guys can confirm this that there's funding in the town budget for a study with a focus on the effects of the deep draw down on the lake. And if there's already going to be a study of some kind over the winter, maybe we just make it a little bit more comprehensive as it relates to a lot of these issues. I know the last I mean I I moved here five years ago during the last and

175that summer next summer we had a lot of in the area where I you couldn't walk into the water was just and then they came up with the second dosage or second um >> treatment that they were using and that seems to work. That's why I didn't realize this year they were going to really do I thought there'd be more opposition to the draw down this year because of what happened in 20 >> and also I think in the last deep draw draw down there was a creation of a fog across from uh Risha Beach because what happens is that the ice >> attaches yeah >> a couple that happened down before that was 10 years ago not five years ago so but anyway what I'm saying is if there's going to be a study,

176there are so many ecological stressors on the lake. We should do an RFP for a really comprehensive study, right? And I think we should talk about what might go into it. >> Again, this is the beginning. >> Yeah, this is the beginning, >> you know, and and that's why I I I elected selected to go to that part of the agenda >> so that, you know, at least we're we're >> we can think about it, >> thinking about it and talking about it. Uh, and you know, we have a, you know, quite a while because the reality of it is boats are being coming out of the water in a month, give or take, and they're not going back into the water until April, May, earlier. So, again, I don't know if we'll be any

177closer to a solution or a position on it in April or May. But at least, >> yeah, but we should focus on it over the winter. We should really educate ourselves on all the research points that we can start. One of the things that came out and and I met with uh Maryanne and Jeff and the two agents earlier today and we talked about it very briefly or superficially and one of the things that came we were enlightened on is that the state agent who monitors the boat launch uh during this weekends. He is not going to confront anybody putting any boat in the water whether it's 90 feet or 10 feet >> or whether it's washed or not. Like let's like like those boats could be bringing hydrilla into >> whatever. He's not there.

178All he's interested in is does is there a parking space for the trailer and if you live on the lake and you're not going to park, he doesn't care. You're not going in the water with your boat. >> So that's where he's at. One of the reasons that is as I found out through the political rectum here in town is because the governor when we asked him to buy he used federal dollars for that purchase and therefore it is not designated it's by us designated as a state program but in the eyes of the state of Connecticut it is not >> I don't think that's true >> no they just they just did the whole >> Yeah no the paved it and everything else put in the retention pools. It was all too deep. >>

179What is the scope of work for that person? What is their job require? >> I told you my my my take on >> to not let any more boats in when the last >> when we had the big two years ago when we had that big storm right after the early July and where everybody was complaining because the water was above the bulkheads. They couldn't nobody would take the step to shut down that program. >> Right. That's exactly the point that Steve >> because the state took no responsibility. That's what I was told. They took no responsibility because under their jurisdiction, it's not theirs. >> We have it as theirs. Under legal law, it is not theirs. >> All right. We can we'll never We don't know the answer to that. >> Put that into

180our winter research as well. >> Say that's what I was told by the election. The bottom line is he's not going to enforce any size boat going into the water because that he's instructed to walk away from any confrontation at all from what we heard this afternoon. And having said that, we can't rely on the boat launch >> to measure a boat and say you can't go in the water. >> Why can't we rely on our police? You know, on my way down here, like I say, I live on the south end of the lake, very south. All the way down to this meeting, I never saw a boat on a lake until I got to the first and I saw what the >> police knew we had a he knew we had a meeting

181today. >> Doing nothing at $100 an hour. Who regulates this? This is ridiculous. That's a separate issue. >> Now, do we need to talk about anything else on here or we pushing it to the next meeting? Well, we're past our 10 o'clock, but I will just say uh we reached out to Deep based on our earlier discussion point of >> buoys. >> Uh and we're in the process of setting up a meeting between sta our staff and their staff. Uh and it's going to creep into these other issues as well. So, we hope to have some information to report or some, you know, >> you know what? I think we we opened up a Pandora's box, lack of a better way of describing it. And uh let's see if we can uh you know make

182it better. >> What? >> See if we can close it >> once the worms are out of the can. >> Do we have a motion? >> Jim, they're waiting for us here. >> Jim, you want to talk to us for two minutes? It's a bigger discussion, >> right? >> So, we'll just select not put it on the agenda until after >> and I don't think they're ready to at this point any >> I don't really have a whole lot going on once the once the draw down starts. We got a few drainage projects uh that we're proposing. Really the main one that needs a, you know, a draw down. Probably doesn't have to be a deep one, but the deeper one does help you get that water level down even further is right over by

183I don't know if anybody remembers where Fazioli's house was back in the day. It's before most of you guys. Uh it would be just south of Pratt. Um that's the property right where Mike Yeah, the two catch bases my property. >> That's right. >> 229. >> Yeah. >> At 220. >> Yeah. We're like 221 to 2 to 303 or something. That area is getting some under drains and some, you know, some basin improvements. >> So, the ones in front of >> Yeah. So, nice. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, that was the one when I was there looking at 229. I'm like, oo, these don't look like they're in too good a shape. So, those are slated to have some >> Oh, good. Perfect. >> Yeah. One of those was mentioned in one of the applications.

184>> Yeah, it was. And that pipe is half full that goes from there to there's only a little bit. >> Yeah. That's it's a that's a tough section. The water level is so high that only so much water can even get through the pipe. It's >> ah that's why I saw the water. >> It goes both ways through that pipe. The pipe I believe is dead level. Um so >> that makes sense. >> Yeah. So um >> you going to replace the pipe? Is that what you plan? >> Uh I don't I honestly don't remember. I think they're pipe was uh was reinforced concrete pipe. I think it was in good shape. You know, had good line and line and grade. It's really we're doing an under drain on the opposite side of the road

185to try to capture that groundwater before it, you know, kind of the hydra hydrostatic pressure of the groundwater and the uphill slope pushes it up into the road and it freezes. So, we're up there all winter. We want to try to capture that down low and then run it off into um into that head wall or catch basin, whichever. I think it goes all the way to the head ball by Prattz and then it crosses and we'll do whatever improvements we can to any of the drains in the area. It will all be part of that. >> Jim, the on the other side of the lake, the east side where you're going to use or the town's going to use some blight money to repair private driveway and then recoup it down the roadtheast. >>

186Is that's going to happen before the winter? >> Yep. We were we were just working on that actually today. Um we've got we know what we want to do. We recently did a a drainage bid that we put out. It's like an alle cart bid for all different types of drainage projects. And so what we do is say okay this has two basins and you know 40 ft of pipe of this size and everybody has a a price for it. So we just figure out who it is. Um I don't remember who won that one. >> Um >> it's going to be done privately. >> Yeah. >> Oh okay. >> Yeah. Just we can't keep up with it. >> No I just I I didn't know. I thought >> we were going to do it

187on our own. >> Yeah, that's what I thought initially, >> but we just we just can't keep we keep not getting to it. So, we're going to we're going to sub that out. Um >> and then same thing, you know, I still want to do the drain right at the very south side that we were talking about. Um it would be just a little further south from that problem driveway. Uh but Phil is pushing to sub that one out, too. So, we're we're looking at both ways >> before the winter because that's critical. >> Yeah. We still have not figured out how we're going to handle I mean I know what I'm going to do. I just don't know if it's going to work. Uh that ice nightmare at the very very bottom of the

188south end. >> Um >> you mean? >> Yeah. Just a little bit past >> the river goes under the house. >> Well, that's one part of the problem. >> Hang on. >> That's one part of the problem. Last year, we had a new part of the problem where there's an old buried well kind of off underneath some rubble that for whatever reason, first time that we've ever seen, water is bubbling up out of that and heading down to the >> And there's a pipe that shows I thought I saw a pipe there. No, >> maybe not. I >> think so. >> Okay. >> So, we got to where can we send that water? Like there's there's no there's no good place to send. So, we don't know exactly what we're going to do. Worst case

189scenario, we'll have to put a, you know, an asphalt broom to keep it going towards that stream that comes under the house and not get out into the road. I don't know how successful that's going to be. Um there's there we don't know what's going on. I don't know. I don't because we never had the problem before. Now all of a sudden that came up. Um we addressed some of the ice issues, you know, that were happening from under the house. And again, that's another one. What do you do? because it freezes up by the house and then the stream itself freezes. The water keeps coming down, goes around the frozen section out into the road and you know again it's on private property. It's you know what do you do? So that's that's a

190that's a challenging one but >> you want to put a culprit right there. That was your answer. >> Yeah. Something got some utilities there that are >> complicating things. So, um, but yeah, I don't know what the answer's going to be, but we're gonna attempt. >> What about getting your intern on that one? >> Tomorrow's our last day. >> The other question I had is uh the project over at Holland Beach parking lot there. >> That's pretty well settled. >> Settled. >> Well, >> yeah. So, the drainage will be paved and everything. >> It will. >> Yeah. No, I was just curious as an update on that. >> Yeah, the drainage work is complete. the we may adjust the height of one of those uh catch basin tops um depending on what the grades look

191like, but because of you know we knew there was some rocks in there that were going to be problematic, we couldn't move any of them. So, we weren't able to drop the level to make everything work the way we wanted it on the schedule we wanted. So, since that's going to be higher now, I've got to raise the road a little bit to make everything else work, you know, to get the water to flow into the drains. Rah. So it just like every mission creep, you know, every project you just get mission creep. So that went above and beyond our bid threshold. So we've got to approach it differently just because of the town policy and it just complicated things. We're we're working on it and it's, you know, we're going to get that. Basically,

192we're going to be redoing the parking lot and the road from about the lifeguard chair all the way out to uh West Lake Street, right? >> And you know, way more than I on way more than I budgeted for and it's way more difficult than I wanted to get into, but here we are. So, >> I think as always, we appreciate what public works does, especially around the lake, you know, and uh you know, just continue the good work and let's deal with things as they come up. >> We'll do our best. >> There you go. I uh I'd like to make a motion to adjurnn and then haven't made a motion tonight. Is there a second? >> All those in favor? >> All right, guys. Thank you very much. >> Um, >> good to

193be back, everybody. >> I thought you guys did a pretty good job being as thorough as you could, but still pushing to get through a huge agenda. You know, that's a that's a tough balancing act. I thought you guys >> I think I weren't going to bring it in. >> Yeah. No, I think you balanced it as well as huge. >> Nice job getting through that everybody. are fat like welding.