001It's 7 o'clock. I'd like to open Win Planning and Zoning Commission meeting uh for June 23rd, 2025. Roll call. Jeremy, Josh and Adam by Loli. Um Charlene Lavoy is absent. Um may have Brista Scott and Will and myself and John Cooney's absent excused. Uh agenda review. I think we're set on that. You would Yeah, you have agenda on your desk to a timing issue. We had 6:30 held over on the original agenda. Okay, we don't need a motion on that. Uh, public comment on anything that's not on our agenda tonight. Scott and I are both seated. Sorry. Scott and I are both seated. Um, yes, I will Scott you see you and Scott both. Yes, we have full five. Sorry. Good thing you reminded me. Okay. Um, any public comment for anything that's not on
002our agenda? Okay. Uh, public hearings. First is PCC25-8 applicant Timothy Wy Jr. LS location 165 Torington Road proposal special permit application for M mixeduse building to include landscape construction yard storage personal mini warehouse vehicle sales personal vehicle sales professional vehicle sales pleasure and large warehouse. Mr. Chairman, just before we get into it, I just want to note that the staff report I put together and sent out last week does did not have updated plans. That is inaccurate. We did receive updated plans late last week. So in your packets, you should have new plans and address didn't see that. Okay. Um any any additional discussion with our members? Anything from the public? Anything that we have? Mr. Wley is not here tonight. Oh, okay. There you are. Okay. Sorry. Yep. We're going to open. Yeah, this
003is public hearing is open. I addressed most of the construction storage material storage and RV storage. Show the landscaped island in the middle of the display area parking. So that it beats some of the zoning on that requirement as far as the 15 foot or 15 parking spot to show the approximate location of leeching fields I had asked about the last time. Yes. Yeah. Uh, Torington Area Health would have that if anybody has. Yep. Okay. Um, trying to think what else we could have for signage. Do you have signage for at the driveway or is it uh at the road? Yeah, there's no proposed signs. That could come at a later date, right? Doesn't have to be part of the site plan, right? Yeah. Yeah. Stand alone site. Yeah. Um did you provide any type
004of a uh information on cut off lighting or anything? There's a detail on the actual calculation. Okay. Yeah, I saw the detail of the drawing of Yeah. Oh, okay. Speaking with my client, it was just and uh just proposed dumpster. No size on that or anything else. Okay. Okay. Uh any comment from the public regarding this? Commission members, questions, concerns? So in the front of the building where you have the parking non, you know, the parking for cars and trucks and equipment, how far from the building does that come or how far from the front boundary line is that? There's like no no dimension on it. There's one from the display area limit 100 ft. But there's nothing that even says what display area limit is. Well, it's it's in that parking area, right? Yeah.
005there right on the edge of it and it's 200 ft from the building to the corner of parcel B2 which is almost 30 a little over 30 ft away from parcel B2 you can't go too close because of floods right looks like it's over 140 ft but it should be on the front I would think the dimensions to and then the same thing with the back where you have the display area limit. It there's no dimension on from the back of the line or anything like that from where that line line is like a setback line you're looking for? No, it's you see here where it says to the left of the building it says display area limit. So, where's that limit? There's no line. There's no dimension. Well, it's the shaded area, right? Yeah.
006A little bit in front of the ditch. This on the side. You got 100 ft on the side. So, that's good. 100 ft from the boundary. Well, that's from the setback. Yeah. From the setback. From the setback. So, well, for the for the end of it there, it's like where does it end? existing tree line. [Music] Does it go up to the neighboring property of the state of Connecticut where you have defense up? They have a fence there, right? Yeah. Yeah. probably would be nice to have the dimensions, but I know when the when they put the building in, I'm sure they did a site plan and I'm sure they had the building envelope on there also. Yeah. And that's I mean that's one of the things this if it's approved to it can be
007listed as a condition of approval at the final print. I like that idea. Those dimensions be listed on it. I mean that's can be one of the conditions that we can place on it if we want to as a commission. Sounds like a good idea. But yeah, it'd be good to have the commission dimension definitely to to know what area is going to be used and what it's used for and if there's a change of use at any time later on have the original dimensions from the and approval. So yeah, I think from an enforcement standpoint too. I mean yes, they they can measure. Well, yeah, it's I mean, look at the things we go through at Highland Lake and other places without definitely, but I just want to just I just want to make
008sure that we're clear on that. So, the display limit area is that everything everything to the left of this dotted line. Yep. And not in the middle here because that's the leeching area. That's the leeching area. Yeah. So the so there is it says the display area is 100 feet from the property line out and then 100t from the tree line. I didn't say 100 feet but yeah and then everything in the middle here. Um just a question is uh so mixed use too it's quite a bit of uses there are they going to be doing public and private sales of uh of the boats and vehicles and trucks not the boats but car truck and equipment. Yeah. Do we need any additional retail on the use itself? I know we're asking the gentleman behind
009you for uh for retail for their their business venture for selling on the materials. Is there anything we need to do for retail the the vehicles on this? Well, the vehicles for all sales and service uh uses. So, the sales are inherent by that. Okay. Sales, service, and storage. And already obviously it has bathroom in it. All right. Again, the sales they're going to have to go to DMV gets done for that string separately. Yeah, my understanding is there's a license that exists at a different address that will be moved to this one to deplete a fleet of vehicles. So, this probably isn't even a long-term use. But yeah, I would just on the agenda it just says vehicle sales. I would make sure just to clarify that it is sales and service. It is.
010Any other comments from the commission members? I'll make a motion to close public hearing PVC 25-8. All in favor? Yes. You heard Rrista and Scott. Let's see stuff around here. Our next public hearing, uh, I'd like to make a motion to open PCC 25-9, applicant Martin Connor, location 103 Road and Road, proposal, special permit application to add storage business, outdoor limited, and landscaping/ construction yard use to the property. I'll second it. All in favor? Continue public hearing. It's a continued public hearing. Yes. Good evening, commission. My name is Martin Connor. I'm a certified planner with the American Institute of Certified Planning. I've been doing uh town planning work for over 35 years. Um last month we came before you, you made a presentation. Um I did go through your special permit special exception section um
011to try and demonstrate um our uh compliance with your uh considerations for special permits. Um, staff had a few comments and the commission asked us to put some additional information on the plan and I do want to thank staff too for getting right back to us uh I think the same night and uh let us know what they thought we should make sure was on the included on our revised plan. So you have in front of you a plan. Uh tonight uh we have the ADA parking detail. We're showing location for parking. I think it was suggested uh that the uh park the parking area on the side of the building uh that we pave that whole section there so that it could be lined. So we we're showing that. Okay. Um, we've included details
012on the dumpster, slant thickness, dimensions, fence height. I do have if you really need it like a whole package on dumpster kinds of materials, but we're just talking about a uh you know a a dumpster enclosure that uh will fully screen your dumpsters. And we show the area that's now uh needs the setbacks. before we had it in an area that um was not within the the required setbacks. We've uh made sure that our concrete bins show uh their location uh back from the front yard setback. That's done. We've uh we've included uh we show a proposed sign location, but we don't have what the sign's going to look like. So, we would come back with a zoning permit. That's understood. And but we show a location for it. Mhm. Um and the tree shrubs
013are moved into inside the fence. They're on our property there. And uh we're we're showing an evergreen uh hedge. Uh we've uh shown uh the access to the existing building. If you look up in the right corner, we've got the building detail. Uh our in our surveyor Tim Wy went out and measured all that information. Shows you the doors. Uh we do show uh proposed lights. uh where are they're required under the building code where the doors are and we if you see the note there it's going to be full cut off fixtures uh car storage uh we provided you with the actual map that we that my client used with uh uh uh Connecticut uh deal you know their Department of Motor Vehicles, DFB. Yeah. And uh it was very loosey goosey. If you
014you could see our whole our license area is basically the area within the fencing. So they were very liberal. I mean basically uh Nick is a repair business, but he may at some point Oh, okay. Sorry. He may uh from time to time have a vehicle for sale, but that's understandable. any else set. Martin, I think we've uh tried to address all the materials as I think from everything I could remember from our last meeting. Yes. Um is there any public comment? No public comment. Uh commission members. No, I I haven't seen that map. So my only question was just the display area that's with inside this fence line. So it's not close to the brook. Right. Right. No. Yeah, the fence line is is pretty much uh on a level ground. And once again,
015you know, this is pretty simple. We're not uh we're not extending off of the existing gravel surface area. So, we're uh you know, we had one neighbor that just had questions at the last meeting. Yes. At the last meeting. Next door neighbor. Yes. He seemed pretty satisfied that we were just using this area which you know once once again we talked about at the beginning of the meeting at one time you stored a lot of buses were it's had multi multiple uses over the years there so and clearly uh it's underutilized with Nick's operation now Scott so you're proposing And that picture that we we saw for the enclosure that was our suggested Okay. Anything else? We're still after looking at the map. Okay. Yeah. Got rid of everything. Okay. Um trying to think. Anything
016else? You're done. Well, close. [Music] So when you said diesel repair, that's you guys. You didn't show the uh the storage container. No, this is what he gave to the motor. It's been accepted approved. Yeah. Pretty simple. Good. I'm good. Everybody's good. I'll make a motion to close public hearing PZC25-9. Second. All in favor. Unanimous. Next. Okay. Our next uh public hearing which will continue uh is for PZC 25-11 applicant Erica Ash ash heating and cooling location 277 North Main Street convert non-conforming use to another non-conforming use for section 415-17 C4. You're up. [Music] Yes, I know you gave a presentation last meeting. Uh I don't know if any of the commission members have any any questions. Adam, you weren't here last time. Was it a public hearing last time or are we opening the
017public hearing this? Uh this is the open public hearing now. Yes. So So it's not This one wasn't continued. Yes. No. No. So just explain quick what you're doing so everybody hears. So um converting a former deli into an office and storage space for an HVAC company. Um yeah you were looking similar signage. No change in signage if anything less than what you have. No outside changes to the building or anything. I mean other than as far as expansions it's just cleaning and making it nicer. Yes. Yes. Can you get rid of the neon lights? No neon lights. Yeah, I'm sure there's plenty there. My god, I think the other issue when I listened to the tape was a site plan. We were going to discuss whether we needed one. Um, which I don't think
018we do. No, that was one of the things that uh we said we'd discuss this meeting because it's an existing use. Um, the only reason they're coming is because somehow this piece of property got in the town single family zone instead of the town gateway. And that's the reason they have to come to us for a special permit for the hearing. And that's one of the next things on our agenda is looking at zoning changes for certain areas of town. Um, yeah. Anyone else got any any questions? anything the applicants. So it's fairly straightforward these correct you ask for yes but I mean just do we need to read in the legal notice? Do we have like this is a new public hearing do we need to do that the record there's descriptions on the
019legal notices um yeah we have notifications went out we have all Yeah. And they ran uh get my bearings here. 10th day of June. Oh, the 12th and the 20th. So within the within the time frame. So we did get the uh certificates of mailing as well. pictures. Pictures of that big room we have discussed at all last meeting. Um, anyone from the audience with any questions? You can have them back. Nothing. Okay. Anything else from the Do you need any of those for the file? What's that? Well, they all technically become part of the file once they pass around. We'll keep them. If there's no additional comments from commission or the public, I'll make a motion that we close PCC 25-11. A second. All in favor? Next, I'll open public hearing PCC 25-7 applicant
020town of Winchester location various update of official zoning map. This I think we opened the hearing for this one last or two weeks ago rather. Yes, we as well. I'll be quick. We talked about that area on North Main Street uh that we just discussed. Yeah, once that one gets going, I'll make sure this plug I don't know about you. H. This one's the Not me. Lauren, where are your kids? We need help. Tech support. probably better in there. It's locked. Okay. Well, I think I think we have a printed out version, don't we? I know [Music] that we'll let you. So if you go back there now that I see it's labeled HDMI 3 and not PC back in there should work HDMI one. There we go. join us. Technology is great when it
021works. It was there for a second. I didn't breathe. Okay. Hey, there. All right. It's gone. Got to warm up. What the hell? Loose connection somewhere. Yeah. Okay. That one seems to be staying. All right, we'll take a look at the take a look at the screen on on the stage right side of the room here because that one seems to be working. So, uh, getting back to this now, now that I'm totally distracted, uh, two weeks ago we talked about this North Main Street section. I had shown you a map. um Jeff and I had talked and we talked to you all about changing the whole stretch on the west side of uh North Main Street. Uh to all the town gateway uh we decided that wasn't really a great idea because a lot
022of those are single family homes. Um and so we pulled that back based on the discussion that we had last week. And so it it takes all of these commercial essentially what they are is commercial properties. Uh there's a car wash on the corner. There's a a uh a package store on the opposite corner and it pulls all of those into town gateway zone. There are three uh FA there are three homes within that stretch. Um they are owned, I think, by a commercial entity that's that's in that neighborhood. Uh but other than that, this actually makes most of those lots compliant with the zoning regulations as opposed to non-compliant. Um, other than that, there are no other changes um, other than the ones we've already discussed and there's a list of properties. I put
023together a spreadsheet and that should be in your packet as well that shows shows all those properties that we're talking about on North Main Street. So, additional changes for consideration as of June 12th. That was before our last meeting, right? June uh, no, your last meeting would have been All right. So, there's a lot a lot of them on here then. Yeah. Last meeting was the night, not just Oakdale, Palmer. Yeah. So, can I take a peek at that list that you're looking at? Yeah. So, those Right. So, these these ones on High View and Palmer and all of those we had discussed early on in this process and that's all that neighborhood over towards the regional high school. Yeah. Those old Hartford Road. Yeah. Right. off of old New Hers. They're smaller lots that
024really, you know, the zoning aligns with town single family. They were in rural residential before we even get to public hearing. The commission had kind of directed that we switch the zone on those parcels. Um there were there was a right there was one way out on Old New Hartford that was I think it was in the town gateway and it's a single family home. So we switched that back over to rural residential. Um so that's this this area here that we're talking about. So just just so the record is clear. So This spreadsheet has previously approved zone changes shown a map dated June 12, 2025. Are we approving those tonight? Did we just previously discuss them? So the the list that you have in front of you has a number of previously approved changes
025and it'll have an approved date in the farthest column to the right. And then it also has a list of changes that we're proposing as part of this map update. Those will not have a date associated with them. I just compiled everything into one spreadsheet so that you were just flipping through. So some of these are approved but maybe weren't reflected in the map. Correct. Yeah. Your mask hasn't been updated since I think 2017 maybe 16. So there were a number of changes that have not been a lot of them were done in 2020. There's a couple in 2024. So and these are the changes that were changing but ultimately we're approving the new zoning map that's reflective of all of these changes. Correct. Gotcha. Anything else? So, we're we still haven't grabbed the last
026lot on Old New Hartford Road on the 40 on the uh side on 44. Say that again, Willie. The last lot on Old New Hartford Road. Yeah. On the town line. It's on the downhill side. That one got forgotten when we first did it and we haven't grabbed it yet. Yeah, it's it's that's reflected here. 100. No, that's not that's 2017. That was the very last lot here on the south side of Old New Hartford Road. So, if you look at the screen where the cursor is currently, don't look at the one behind you because look at the one over here on this side. So, it's this lot that you're talking about. I think that was was left out of the last update and was left in the town gateway zone. So, we've corrected that
027as part of this update here. I haven't seen it. It's it's it's right. Can you see this screen? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's the one that's underneath my cursor, but it's not on your list. It should be. I don't remember the the number of that parcel, but it's it's like two 200 something. Old New Hartford. I'd have to look it up to be honest with you. No, no, no. Who's the owner? So, it's under one of these previously approved 200 old New Harvard road. I don't think it's under one of the previously approved ones. It should be under It's probably lumped with like the Let me look it up. So, my list and Rissa's list are different. They are. Well, and theirs must be different because they're looking for there it is. 208 208. Thank
028you. Yeah, it was in the middle of the page. Yeah. But the pages with all of them. I knew it was 200 and something 208. It's listed there. Yeah. So, [Music] any questions or any public with any comments, questions? Yes, sir. Um the you guys said that you decided to go against maybe zoning that lower half of Maine as uh he's talking farther north where all the residences are because originally that was beyond Gib Street. Um the last thing meeting with his map showed from Gib Street north being uh town, you know, changing that from the and those are all residences. No, no, we're looking from Beach Street from basically Beach Street to uh Brook Street was it? Yes. Yeah. Right. Now, any other public comment? Everyone in the board? Good. Good. All right. I'm
029going to make a motion to close PZC2-7. Second. Second. All in favor? Close. Yes. Yeah. The last one should be. All right, let's see. Get through this discussion started. Yeah. You good? Yep. Okay. All right. We'll move into old business. Um, first item is PZC 25-6. Applicant Henry Joseph Noik III, location 39 Avenue, convert existing family home to two family home. Um, he's requested an extension to July 14th and that was granted. So, that'll be continued till then. be a special exception public hearing or is that just a It's a public hearing. It's a public hearing. Item B, PZC 25-8. Applicant TW Timothy Wy Junior LS. Um, location 165 Torington Road. Proposal special permit application for mixeduse building to include landscape/ construction yard storage personal mini warehouse vehicle sales personal vehicle sales professional vehicle sales
030pleasure and large warehouse. Okay here. I'll make a motion to approve application 25-8 special permit applicate Timothy Wy owner 165 Torington Road LLC proposal mixed uses for plans by Timothy Wy dated June 2025. One, in evaluating this application, the planning and zoning commission has relied upon information provided by the applicant. If such information subsequently proves to be false, deceptive, incomplete, and are inaccurate, this permit shall be modified, suspended, or revoked. Two, this application is consistent with the town's plan of conservation and development. Three, this application meets the criterion standards of 3J common regulations, special permits, SLA slash special exceptions. [Music] I have a second. Okay, just a second. Okay, commission members discussion. I think the only thing I just want to make sure that is clear is where the application in the agenda says vehicle
031sales. The parking schedule clearly says vehicle sales and service. So, we're approving vehicle sales and service as uses because this isn't a table of use. It's a parking schedule. just and that's what they're looking for. Sales sales and service, correct? Because that not was worded in the Yeah, the motion. The use is actually sales and service. It wasn't uh written that way on the agenda. Yeah. The only reason I pointed out is because it just says parking schedule and this is the use in the parking schedule. So just make sure that that's also what we're as a condition will add to include vehicle service as part of the special permit. And one condition I was going to put on that the uh applicant submit a detailed drawing of the dumpster enclosure um to the zoning
032enforcement officer for his approval before the permit is issued because there's no detail on dumpster enclosure at all. If if I recall correctly, I think they were saying that it's not in view of uh the public right away. Now, we had discussed it last meeting. There has to be a dumpster enclosure. Okay. You got bears, animals, even though it's not in view from the Route 8. If the leaves are off, it could be. We're requiring everyone else in town to have dumpster closures. So, it should be a kind of standard practice. If you don't want to, I mean, that's fine. But that's one of the conditions I was looking at that could be approved by the zoning enforcement. Anybody got anything else for other conditions or Well, we were talking about some of these lines.
033I don't know how we define them. We can ask for more details on the final map presented to the town uh with all dimensions of storage areas. So just sounds like dimension of story storage areas. So in the display area limit need a dimension from the rear setback to the display area limit. And then display area limit on the right hand side of the print. You need a dimension from the front set back to there. Other than that, that's the only two air flop you should have. can write it down. Add it number six. You want additional setbacks labeled on the plan. Is that what you're looking? Additional dimensions. Storage areas and parking areas. Yeah. Storage areas more clearly defined or something. Storage and parking. Huh? Parking areas. Well, you were looking for dimensions for
034this parking area here from the building and stuff too, weren't you? Well, no. We got that one from there. Okay. And well, we don't have one from here to here to to to define where that is from the because that's just like floats around from the road side of the property line. Yeah, there's nothing here that says where this is. It floats. It can be wherever you want it. I think if you just put something simple like dimensions of story areas more clearly defined and then the CEO can make sure that staff can make sure it's on that dimension is not clearly defined. They're you know appropriate for because it's really just for their enforcement purposes. So they can make sure that they have the details that they need. Do you understand? Clarify dimensions on
035final site plan to be approved by town staff. Yeah, sounds good. Dimensions of storage and parking areas. Yeah, I would have the applicant meet with you just put notes on the map, then have a final plan. You know what we're looking for? So that work makes sense, Tim. You good with that? Okay. Sounds good to me. Okay. So, add to the Mitch print for zoning enforcement officer. Are we good? All in favor? Unanimous. Who seconded the motion? I believe whoever signs the sheet say second. We'll go with that. Okay. for that. You're handy to know. You want that one down? Okay. We'll move on to our next one. Uh to make a motion to approve application 25-9, special permit applicant Mark Connor, owner of 103 Riverton Road LLC. proposal at landscaping/construction yard to use per
036plans by Timothy Wy dated April 2025. One in evaluating this application, the planning and zoning commission has relied upon information provided by the applicant. Such information subsequently proves to be false, deceptive, incomplete and are inaccurate. This permit shall be modified, suspended, or revoked. Two, this application is consistent with the town's plan of conservation and development. Three, this application meets the criteria and stated the 3J common regulations special permits special exceptions. Um, before we had gotten this enclosure information tonight, I was going to put condition on there that, you know, give enclosure details, but uh I would add that uh is this what you're looking to use for an enclosure? Okay. Um I would just put as a number four um dumpster enclosure to be as presented to the commission brochure presented to the commission. Uh,
037anybody got anything at all. All in favor? You need a second. Who second? Adam seconded. All in favor? Unanimous. So, sorry about that. Commission. Thank you very much. And thank you to the staff for getting right back to us. So, we can come back in two weeks and get this all squared away. See you later. Good luck pouring some concrete. Give that to the'll do that for the Keep that with the approval. Yeah, keep that with the package. So, that's a nice warp the pentat that corner is looking a lot better. Yeah, with the gas station and they maintain that whole frontage too. Don't forget to sign it also. All right. Now, we'll move on down. PCC 25-11. Applicant Erica Ash Heating and Cooling. I'd like to make a motion to approve application 2511, special
038permit. Applicant Erica Ash Heating and Cooling, owner of state of Michael Perigeni. Proposal convert non-conforming use to another non-conforming use per section 415-17 C4. Evaluating this per application, planning and zoning commission is relied upon information provided by the applicant and if such information subsequently proved to be false, deceptive, incomplete and inaccurate. This permit shall be modified, suspended, or revoked. Two, this application is consistent with the town's plan of conservation and development. Three, this application meets the criteria and standard of 3J common regulation special permits special exceptions. I got have a second discussion. Scott's in the book. Yep. Discussion. Any discussion? All in favor? It's yours. Sorry it took that long. Good luck with that. Congratulations. Y actually compared to before, it's fast now. It is because we have information in front of us. So, thanks
039to you guys. We have the information. We can That's what we're here for. Yes. Little little faster than it used to be, huh, Troy? You remember those days? I remember. Thank you for trying to stay off. I like it when things work out. Sometimes you got to do what you got to do. Okay. One more. I got 20 more. No. No. Uh Scott, you second it. I got a sign where it says seconded by You got to watch them all the time. So, got to watch the movies [Music] from there. Okay. Our last one is PCC 25-7. Uh, I'd like to make a motion to approve application 25-7 special permit applicant town of Winchester update of the official zoning map dated June 12th, 2025. While in evaluating this application, the planning and zoning commission has
040relied upon information provided by the applicant. And if such information subsequently proved to be false, deceptive, incomplete, and inaccurate, this permit shall be modified, suspended, or revoked. Two, this application is consistent with the town's plan of conservation and development. Three, this application meets the criteria and standards of 3J common regulation special permits slash special exceptions. I'll second it. Okay. Any discussion? Yeah, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to have an effective date set. Um, I would say no sooner than July 15 so that we can publish a legal notice and have the appeal period run out uh before it becomes effective. So, would you like to go with July 15th? I think that's fine. Okay. Do direct mailings to every one of these addresses or just Okay. Junior. Yeah. To be effective. to be effective July 15,
0412025. No discussion. All in favor. [Applause] Good work on that. That was a lot of work. Thank you all for That was a difficult one, believe me, for you guys. You guys did all the hard work on it for us. But it's just lines on a map to me. It makes no Well, you have to colors. Yeah, you have to remember this is 5 years in the making. Fair enough. You know, fair enough. We've been dealing with for at least 5 years. Well, we got it done. We'll look at it again in a year. Pretty much done. I I think we're there. We missed if we missed something, then we'll we'll find it and we'll fix it. We're much farther ahead than we were, so hopefully it makes it easier for everyone. Thank you for
042that. uh under new business. Um first off, before we have an election of a new chairman, I'd like to thank George Clawson for his many years of service to the town of Winchester and to the planning and zoning commission especially. He served as a member of the commission for many many years as chairman for several years with a wealth of knowledge and wisdom that he imparted to me anyways and I think all the members of this committee. He'll be sorely missed. So thank you George if you're listening. Um, I would like to nominate Will Platt as the next chairman of the Winchester Planning and Zoning Commission. Second. Okay, just any discussion. All in favor? Unanimous. Congratulations, Will. Or my sympathy. I don't know which, whichever. But um I told Will I would continue the the
043rest of the meeting tonight, not throw it on him, but uh and be more than happy to help him with anything I can. Uh item seven, other business was discussion of draft regulations for helellipads, which yeah, so I you know, we we kind of we left this where it was last time. Um, I gave you a a number of revised uh regulations and the helellipads is the first one to take a look at upon a conversation from two meetings ago. I think there was talk of um hours of operation uh I think we initially said 9:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. or something along those lines. And so we adjusted that language to be we we adjusted it to be uh approved as part of the special permit. The hours of operation of of a helmet
044don't know what I did with mine here. I probably got my briefcase or something. Yeah, there anybody want to discuss them? I would pull it up on the screen except the screens aren't cooperating. So we're not going to understand the papers here. The big difference from from the draft that you had seen I think in late May is under subsection uh se section 2F of this proposed language. It's been changed to say the hours of operation shall be determined as part of the special permit with consideration of the location and nearby uses and may include seasonal variations with the exception of an emergency. So that gives emergency uh helicopters the ability to sort of land whenever. Yes. Yeah. Because it was in red on on our That's right. Yep. Yes. Um a special permit. Special
045permit. Yep. Yeah. Now we're going to need a to set a public hearing on this. And I just add this to the regulations. We we've talked about and I I think I might have missed one of the meetings where this was discussed. Are we allowing this as a principal use or just as an accessory use only? It's an as an accessory use only. And I think if you um if you read the uh yeah the the the first the first line of the proposed rag is the purpose of the section is to allow by special permit the construction of helellipads as an accessory use as provided for herein. So it would not use. Yeah. And number one is uh as a part of a medical office. You already include that sort of you include it
046in the definition section for medical office, but I thought let's just put it on put it on record. And then uh section number two goes into uses that are not part of a medical facility. Um any limitations on number of landings during one day? We did not put that in there that I remember when we had not discussed that. I mean that could be added part of the special but ones that do it. No that's a nightmare to try to enforce. I was going to say it becomes a little bit of an enforcement issue. Be a major enforcement issue because really who's going to be doing I mean I think we tried covering a lot of the stuff because of the distances in the amount first amount of acreage needed. Second the distance from residences
047and other buildings and what districts they're allowed in. So yeah. So, if you look at the use table changes, um, right now I have it in there as as allowed in the RR, uh, town gateway and and PI. And I think that with the hours of operation listed, you know, if it's a sensitive area, maybe we can even restrict those even more. So, I like that that's an openended thing instead of like a blanket 8 to 9 or whatever talking about. Yeah. you know with the special permit process we're going to be can limit lighting and outlaw that if we wish to whatever it's just that we can determine conditions at that time of approval and I think in the special exception regulations there's probably something about noise so we do feel that you know
048whatever the proposal is impact that neighborhood from noise I think we could probably The noise is going to be a hard one to to force. What if they were, you know, come in and say we have four planes and we're going to come in every half hour like we could, I think we can address it. No, the existing. Uh, you want to set this for the July 14th meeting? Uh, I think that'd be fine. Or you want to push it out to the the 28th of July? I don't think we have any other public hearings scheduled 14th. Just that just that two family that duplex the two. I think the 14th is fine. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Uh I'll make a motion to schedule a public hearing for the uh draft teleport regulations for July 14th.
049I'll second. Any discussion? All in favor? Unanimous. Okay, that's that one. Discussion updates to Highland fence requirements. So, this one again, we've we've talked about a fair amount. Um, we had some conversations two weeks ago about trying to figure out how to regulate and whether we should regulate um uh hedge walls. And I think at this point, I think we decided a couple of weeks ago, let's let's put a pin in that for now. Let's go back and research that piece of it. Let's just get the fence section sort of cleaned up so that we can Right. Exactly. Yeah. And enforcement's going to be a big issue with that. So, I think right now what we'd like to do is just address the the the the deficiencies in the language that we've got and that
050duplicative uh setback requirement and then we can talk later uh more about the the hedge piece of it and whether or not that's something we want to do. So, I haven't made any changes to that proposed rig for June 4th. June 4th. That's correct. Yeah. Uh, I'll make a motion to schedule a public hearing for proposed changes to zoning regulations on fences in the Highland Lake District for July 14th. Also, I have a second. Second. All in favor? Do we have a copy of all your proposed changes? You should have them in your packet. Should be in my packet from last month and changes are in last meeting. Yeah, you should have and we can send June June 4th. They're also on open gov because we have applications set and they'll they'll they'll be going.
051If they're not in there already, they'll be going in there. So, this just really is just clarifying the existing. It's clarifying. Yeah, it's clarified it. It took care of typos and missing words. Mhm. The the biggest thing is we deleted that section that talked about a 9- foot setback when you you had a you had in there language requiring a twoft setback and you had language requiring a 9 foot setback. And so we we just cleaned that up. We got rid of discussion about what qualifies as open. We could you want to bring that up? So what is the setback? Uh the setback will be two two feet. Yeah, two feet or on a line provided or right. We're on a line provided that the neighbor signs off on it. Yeah. Yes, sir. Say something.
052No, but we'll let you talk. Okay. Thank you. Uh just be uh you know paying attention to the public works department because you know you get a two foot setback and somebody puts a hedge there or something, it grows into the road or you know we have barely enough room to push the snow as it is. So this is for sideyards. sideyard. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, we're looking at sideard. I know that's a problem. Yeah. No, that's that's a big issue up at the lake. That's a big issue. We we're not even talking about this. It's just for the sideyards. Yeah, we're talking sideyard. We didn't we didn't touch anything with with road frontage or anything. Yeah, because that was already discussed. There's been some issues. Yeah, just knock over. I mean, but do Yeah. I
053mean, I I just want to like typically fences are not regulated by zoning, right? So, you can put up a fence if you know you're anywhere in town. Put up a fence as long as it isn't six feet or less because then you don't need a building permit and it can go anywhere on your property, right? So, we don't generally regulate that, but you do. In this case, we want to regulate. We do. You regulate it for all your districts. Yes. And in the And in the Highland Lake District, it's got extra provisions around it, but fences are regulated everywhere. I It surprised me when I got here, too. That's That's a lot of work on him. There's a lot like 12 pages, isn't there, of fence regulations. So, what's the normal setback? [Music] So,
054everywhere else we recommend a two to three foot setback for the property lounge to allow maintenance without trespass. How would you give a permit on a recommendation? Well, they need to draw it in where it's going to actually be and we go from there. Uh we have recently uh decided to and the only way to do that is if you have a survey, right? So for people who can get sign off from all their affected neighbors, we're foregoing the need for a survey just so we don't have an undue cost on applicants. I'd like to drop it all together if uh you know that's something that the commission wants to discuss. But just one point specific to the Highland Lake fencing. Uh, another point you may want to consider or look into is what constitutes
055the definition of a semiopen fence. There are some graphical representations in the regulations, but none of them actually tell you how far the slats need to be from each other. So, that gets a little uh iffy as well. So, if we're going to be talking late fence regulations, maybe we want to actually put in a measurement or something. I don't know. will hurt. Yeah, it won't hurt you. Yeah, it starts to get overly complicated, I think. You know, and and Jeff's point is a good one because we've had this conversation with with somebody already that they put up a fence and look, it's semiopen. And it is if you're standing headon and it's got a 3/4 in gap between each slat, but if you're looking at it from a 40° angle, it looks like a
056solid fence. And you know, if you look at the diagrams that are within the regulation, maybe it meets those, maybe it doesn't. You might want to think about moving towards if it's under four feet, it's got to be it can be solid because you could see over it. But if it's over a certain height, then it's semiopen. And then defined semi-op, it's it's just it's a cumbersome regulation to to uh enforce. And it's Yeah, I'm going to leave it at that. It's a cumbersome regulation to enforce and and I you know again I know we've talked about viewsheds and trying to preserve viewsheds from the road and I understand that that's the the sort of the reason behind it all but I think it's I don't know that it's totally effective in meeting that in
057meeting that goal especially when you've got houses that are so packed tight to each other and landscaping between them and and garages and everything else. I don't think a a a you know a fence that takes up about you know maybe maybe four inches of width running the length of your view affects much in terms of the the view but I think that's a bigger conversation that should be had at some point. So when you're ahead, go to people's houses, somebody has a party, people have they just bought the house or something's happened. All the people come in. You know what the initial conversation is from everybody? Well, look at your view. Look at the view. They're out in the lawn. Oh, look how far you can see this way. Look how far you can
058see that way. That's the initial conversations. So, it's important. May not be important in downtown, but it's important up there. Yeah. But I mean, I guess for me, if I live on the lake and I want a 4ft fence because I don't want to see that view. I should be able to do that where I think But you don't block your view. You block I say it's the other people, right? No, the people next to you and people next to them and that's the reason for the setback. So, it has to be 20 foot back and then it can only be four feet. So, you're not blocking other people's view right I so I think that we already have the setback requirements 20 ft from height water mark we already have the height restriction the
059four feet or the three feet so that other people are protected if it's my own view because I want privacy for some reason why are we regulating that and I guess that's my because some neighbors don't give a [ __ ] about the other ones yeah but so maybe it's a 25% Like I think to Jeremy's point, if there's a 2 inch or 4 inch space between the slats, your view is still obstructed. It's a setback that's not going to obstruct that view. Right. And your your regulations currently, the way it's written is anything within 20t of the lake can't exceed six feet in height, which makes sense. And anything within 20t of the lake requires a special permit from the commission. So if you're down in that front portion, I'll call it the front because they're
060lake lots, but the front portion, it it requires a special permit. Y anything within 20 ft of the high water line of high lake shall not exceed 36 in. Oh, I'm sorry. 36 in. Oh, that we clarified that. There was a portion that said 4T and there was a portion that said 4T. Yeah. There there still is. C and D are still kind of confusing. Is located within 20 ft of the high water line. is yours. Finally, make sure that it's four feet height. Walls, right? So, walls and fences are located Yeah, they are right. They're they're regulated separately. So, a fence has a 4ft height. A wall has a six foot I mean a threeft height. And I think the intention there is walls really can't be semiopen, right? Because they're not going to
061stand if they are. So, yeah. So, I'd probably if it was easier for you, get rid of that semiopen and make them all 36 in. What about dogs jumping over? Well, the semi, right? Right. Right. It's And semi-open is all of it. All the fences within the Highland Lake District, regardless of where they are, is the semi-open provision applies. Just food for thought. I mean, I think we're throwing it out there because we're we're encountering public hearing the next meeting and hash it out then, I guess. So, if we change the examples of semiopen, I personally like to see it in something that's commercially available. So, you don't have to create that or pay a contractor to create it. So, if we can come up with something that's commercially available that meets our regulations, meets
062our regulation or meets they look at a two inch spacing, a 3 in spacing, you know what what's commercially available with a, you know, maybe a solid vinyl, but it's does it have a twoinch spacing between the slats or 3inch spacing or one inch? I know. And I guess that would be the question that I would ask of the commission is is what would you what would you like to see in terms of that spacing, right? Do you want a two-inch gap? Do you want a 3-in gap, a 4inch gap? And then those slats themselves, how wide are those? I mean, are we are we really are we really looking at trying to just sort of force a picket style fence, right, where you've got kind of a a narrow slat and then a fairly
063wide gap. But it could also be like a lattice or farm fences with split rail. Which isn't even that those are more semi open. Yeah. I don't know if those four graphics were meant to be all-encompassing or just examples almost as much time as we did on driveways. Yeah, we could we could drive ourselves nuts here. We we can bring you some may maybe we want to hold off on opening the opening the hearing on this one. Let's let's continue. Well, you Yeah, we don't have a timeline because it's commission initiated. So, yeah, let's let's do the hearing and we'll get you some examples of what's commercially available there. Yeah, that can be added into it that night. Yeah. Something we can hear during the hearing. Yeah. Okay. I'm good with that. That that um
064public comment will be helpful. All right. Exactly. Assuming we should if we get some Yes. I think we'll have quite a few people from the lake. Do you? I don't know how many would come down right now because most of them are unless they're up here for the summer, right? Item C was updates, discussion of updates and yes, updates and definitions to the related uh to manufactured and mobile homes. Yep. So, I gave you a couple of uh new definitions there, and this cleans up the the need for uh folks that that want to construct manufactured or yeah, manufactured homes. Uh currently, they are required to come and get special permit. We just did one up on Ashley Road. So, this rectifies that. Um uh this follows the HUD definition of what a manufactured home
065is and what a mobile home is. And a manufactured home is just a mobile home that's constructed after uh June 15, 1976 and is, you know, sort of a trailer home or whatever you want to call it, whatever colloquial term you want to use. Um, but a manufactured home is not a factorybuilt modular home. A factory built modular home is is outfitted with studs and you know typically sheathing and then trucked here put on a foundation and put together with other modular homes and then fitted out. A manufactured home is brought in dropped in place fully done. It's got its wiring. It's got it plumbing. It's got its insulation. Its stove is in place. Its fixtures are, you know, it's it's done. It's ready to occupy once it's connected. Ready to live basically on a
066trail. Right. Right. Okay. You want to do that this 14th also? I'm okay with it. I'll make a motion we schedule public hearing on updates to the definitions to related to manufactured and mobile homes for July 14th. I'll second all in favor. And we're down to uh D discussion updates to zoning regulations appendix A newspaper. Yep. So, a couple of changes here that we're proposing and I'm noticing that for some reason some things shifted on me. But one of the things right at the top in the key that we wanted to clarify and I think we tried to get this done as part of the codification. It didn't quite happen. Um, we wanted to currently your your key has P and SP and a blank box. So P is a permitted use, SP is a
067special per permit use, and then a blank box is not allowed. There are uses out there that are allowed by zoning permit, but they're not called out as zoning permit in the box. And so, I think just to clarify for the ZEO and for the public, we want to clarify what those zoning permit uses are separate from the permitted uses, which really are a site plan approval uh done by the commission. So, those are things like single family dwellings in all of your residential zones. Um uh uh and I think we'd put in accessory uses residential accessory uses I think um as ZPS home farming is a zoning permit. That's something that Jeff already signs off on. So again clarifying that that's a a zoning permit. Um and then one that we we added because
068it's something that I think is not currently regulated. Um, and I think it adds clarity for everybody which is under other uses. Change from one allowed use to another allowed use within an within an existing space. So if a business goes out on Main Street for an example and another business wants to come in and maybe it's not quite the same, maybe it was a I don't know, pick something off the shelf. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, perfect. Or or even simpler is what I was thinking. You know, somebody who's running some kind of an office going from an old del right an old deli to an HVAC thing. then that we could be done doing it as a ZP because there's no site plan changes. There's no exterior changes to the building. It's just it's a
069use thing. Jeff can quickly verify that the site has the the required parking to meet that use and away you go. Y uh and then I think the only other one we noticed in um the Riverton Road application actually that landscaping and construction yard got dropped out of the use table. Yeah, it was originally in those separate boxes that you had listed under each use or I'm sorry, under each zone and it was it was a listed use in the in the gateway town gateway zone. It just didn't get translated to the new use table. So, we added that as well. Um, you want to do that the 14th again? Okay, we all make a motion to have a public hearing on the updates zoning and regulation appendix A use table July 14th meeting. Second.
070All in favor? We're really testing well, aren't we? Hey, we're busy tonight. We're going to be busy the next meeting. Willy's going to be running it. Next approval of minutes. June 9th regular meeting. Anybody? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of our July or June 9th. I'll second. Make sure it doesn't end at 9:01 at 9:00 on the top. I'm not sure discussion. It was It was I trust I trust our secretary because she is very efficient. Huh. And I believe it was 9:00 p.m. because that's when George wanted to go home. Yeah, I think it was. So we he spelled that out. I appreciate that as somebody who's who covers another commission and went till 11:30 last week. Yeah, I appreciate 9:00. And we're going to under discussion, just for the record,
071I listened to the public hearings before I voted on them tonight. You're good. Thank you. Same. Okay, we got a motion to second it. All in favor accepting the minutes and communications. I don't have anything. Nothing. Nothing. No news. Nothing coming up. The governor vetoed House Bill 50002. There you go. We need to celebrate talking about I won't say where, but we need to celebrate it after meeting on that. It'll be back. Don't worry. I know it'll be back, but we've got another year hopefully. So, it'll be back in some form. It'll be back in some form, but a lot of I know. So, that's that's very good. Just so because we were just talking about fences, how does the rest of the commission feel about kind of eliminating some of that in our regulations?
072So I've worked for ton of towns. I know Scott probably has, you know, reg fences are a bone of contention between neighbors and it's usually a civil matter that the town doesn't get involved in as long as it's on their property line. If there's a dispute over a property line, then they have to get a survey. That's not something the town generally steps foot in. We don't require permits for, you know, under six feet because that's what doesn't require a uh building permit. And I think that with our limited staff having been forced and issued permits and that's a lot of time that takes up for something that's probably a hassle for the homeowner, hassle for the zoning and I don't know that something that so but I just want to throw it out there
073if get everybody else's kind of thoughts on it because it's not typically I don't know what your experience is. I agree it's not looking for words of wisdom to follow. Yeah, I mean I would agree with Risa. This is this is I think the first time I've encountered a fences requiring regulations really of any kind. Uh I understand again the Highland Lake area that's different but that's a different piece. you know, the rest of town out in the rural residential, we're making people get surveys of their properties to put up a fence on sometimes a 5 acre lot. Uh, you know, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You've got other lakefront properties, but I mean, like Winchester does only four houses there and you've got Park Pond, but uh they're not that dense,
074you know, there because most of it's all in under a land trust property or the camps are there. Um, I mean, we may want to put a stip to look at a stipulation something for property for commercial uses or something. Well, those would all come in under site plan, right? Yeah. We would still approve this state plan. I've seen some regulations where if it's over six feet, you know, yeah, you you have to get a special permit for for something that's over six feet. But six feet and under, I mean, that's a lot of time to and and and as a property owner, if you want a fence for privacy, I mean, I think I think that's just a burden that we don't want to come up with. I mean, throw something at us. Okay.
075Well, yeah, we'll throw something. I think you know Rrista is right that most towns I think will regulate some or require some kind of a permit if they're over used to be six I think it's seven in the building code now whatever it is just mirror the building code which I think is 7 ft so if it's under that because a standard fence is six feet if it's under seven it doesn't require anything and I think that makes sense I'd certainly appreciate the change a difficult well lake I think we're looking at those fencing regulations and I think that there's some really good reason for that. There's sheds and different things. So I I think that's has to be regulated. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the rest of the everything else. Yeah.
076That's good. Anything else? Motion to adjurnn. Second. All in favor? 8:21. Let's see what you can do next time, Willie. Guys, throw down the challenge. Threw a dumb down. I just threw you a challenge. Huh? Get it done.