December 11, 2025 Board of Education Special Meeting - Budget

001in session at 7:30. Rise, please. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So, um I have to press the button, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, welcome everybody. Um this is a uh first real meeting of the new board. So, I'm excited to welcome um all our new members. Um all of whom are um happy to still be see with us. And this is a board this meeting is a board retreat format. Um so to anyone watching at home it's a little bit different. Um every month we have a business meeting um where we have public comment and a chance um to hear from different constituencies. That is not where the purpose of board

002retreats. The board retreat whenever we have a board retreat meeting. It's really a chance for us as a board to have more of an extended opportunity um in a smaller circle here um to to talk with each other um and to discuss the issues before us. as you know because of sunshine laws um the eight of us cannot um cannot talk in private um a lot of people don't understand that that it's not like we can go out the eight of us for coffee and talk about the budget uh we don't do that um if there's a quorum we can't talk about anything um so this is really our only chance um as a board to really talk about some of the media issues and so obviously today the biggest issue on our agenda is

003the board budget um and we'll be talking about that we're talking about the pool um but we have another a couple other things on the agenda we're going to get to. Um, first off, I want to welcome Chief Chief Healey G. Thanks for coming. Thanks for coming, Chief, because we wanted to um we appreciate uh you coming because um we know we wanted to talk about the um um speed cameras and everything, but but even even before that at even before that, you know, on behalf of uh the district and um certainly everybody in in Riverside over in my community, you know, we really wanted to thank the Greenwich Police Department for all the work they did and the the outstanding work in in apprehending that that individual, that very scary incident back in September.

004Um, all of us really appreciate that the work there. >> Oh, good. I don't have to press the button. Uh, well, thanks for having me. I I I will say that um, you know, early on we had a lot more information that we were able to that we were not able to share with too many people because it would have been a jeopardy uh, you know, put the investigation in jeopardy. Um but the detectives um once the case was handed over to them really kind of did a lot of lot a lot of work which involved a lot of uh search warrants and interviews and and follow up and uh the community also was significant in helping us with their cameras and other information. And so it was uh you know it was people were

005asking every day and about and we just couldn't say even though uh we were monitoring um to make sure you know a little extra to make sure everybody stayed safe. So uh hopefully this will be a good result. Um, so with that said, I know um we have um we probably have some board members that have questions about speed cameras and school zones, but maybe before question, maybe you could just give us an overview because I know there's been a lot in the press and I don't know if you give us a little bit of background about, you know, where we are in and what the department's doing. >> Right. So, this um began in uh 2024 when we had a change in the state statute that would allow us to deploy uh speed cameras

006and red light cameras in town as a town as a municipality if we desired. Um and what we did was we did an extensive survey of all the both public and private schools and um identified the locations where people were um violating the speed limit during the the prior to the bell times in the beginning and in the afternoon of school time. So um we looked at several vendors. Uh we went with a blue line which is a company out Midwest. So mostly retired officers who have a lot of experience with traffic enforcement. Um part of the model is that this particular uh system um it didn't cost us anything to to install the system and there is a administration of the of the violation. So we kind of put the public made the public

007aware of it once we passed the town. So state statute was passed and the town ordinance um and then we kind of went into a plan to notify people of that and uh they worked over the summer. It was really kind of difficult. We didn't get all of the permits. everything had to go through the state. Um you know some of the schools zones have different speed limits uh like Eagle Hills 20 and you know hills you know post road is 25 those types of things. So we had to get through all that process and we're trying to be very transparent about it. So it started up uh in November with the first four cameras uh and then u just recently with the additional five cameras and um there's a couple of layers. First of

008all, the company uses a algorithm to determine if there were um oddities about the plate. So if it doesn't match up with a registration, um they delete those. And then um they send us to send those to the police department in a batch and a police officer reviews it, goes through to make sure that everything looks like um the speed limit was being violated, the plate matches the car and those types of things. Uh and then uh the company then sends out initially a warning um and that was for a 30-day period and then a summon. The first summons is $50 with a service fee. The second one is 75 with a service fee. Um a lot of people are asking about where the money's going. It's it's going to go into a special account

009for the town uh for kind of my three E, education, uh engineering, and enforcement um to to support this system of keeping the schools zone safer. Um there is a third uh layer of review where someone can appeal the ticket and the uh police advisory uh board that we have of civilians uh appointed by the first selectman actually the board of selectmen uh will review tickets that are challenged you know if there's some issue with with the issuance of that ticket and of course it can be challenged the fourth way is up to the courts in Stanford. So, we're still working with the relationship there because we're one of the first towns in Fairfield County to do the system. Um, I mentioned before about red light cameras. So, you know, we looked hard at whether

010or not these systems would have a a a positive, you know, the results we're going to cause more problems with a particular solution. And the speed cameras, uh, we think are are a positive. Red light cameras, you have to have a certain criteria to meet them. And I I think it's important just to explain that because the state does monitor what we're doing. And uh we only have two intersections in town uh up at exit 5 and at exit 3 where a speed camera I'm sorry a red light camera would be appropriate and our option is not to put us the cameras there right now because we feel that it would cause more accidents than it would help. So um so we're always looking at the pos you know the pluses and the minuses to

011the system. So um in and just to give you some numbers, I got these just yesterday um from the vendor uh ju I give you one example cuz uh the in the issuance of warning tickets when those were issued uh Eagle Hill School on Glenville Road, there was about 1,230 violators and once the ticket after the 30-day warning is down to 116 summones being issued. So, um, I think the word's gotten out. Another, um, place where we had a lot of violators was, uh, North Street School where we had 4,341 violations during the school day and 107 violators, uh, now that they they're issuing tickets. So, >> it was 4,000 during like the first month or the first two months. >> Correct. Yeah. So, uh, and again, these numbers are are are preliminary, but we

012wanted to give you kind of the flavor. So in both cases you look at almost a 90% reduction in speeders and the company initially uh from their research said it would be about 70%. Um but again there's still an educational process and uh we look at uh engineering uh making sure that the signs are right that the flashers are going right uh and still trying to get the word out. I don't want to give any tickets out. I would rather have people comply with the speed limit and be safe. Um, I will say I I looked uh to my traffic expert, Sergeant Smith, uh, another Greenwich High School graduate, um, and a longtime police officer. His observation from, because he runs a traffic section, was that one of our distressing observations was that there were

013these big yellow buses that were violating the speed limits. And we're going to probably make sure that you guys are aware of that as well. I mean, even at schools where they were delivering kids to that particular school. So, um, you know, we're hoping that we'll, you know, now that that's a something we're made public, we'll even work out better. Uh, but, you know, no one's perfect, uh, and and these things happen. But, I think overall, um, it's still early in the system. So, I think it's probably appropriate for me to give you guys a heads up on how it how it's progressing. So, if we were to collect the fines for all the tickets that were issued so far, and it's only been um about 6 weeks, it'd be about $30,000. So, uh but

014again, I'm not looking for I know I I uh distress when in social media say about it being a money grab, but it's the money's going back into the same these programs to keep the schools uh school zone safe. Um so, the subject to your questions, I think that's kind of a quick overview. >> So, so just to clarify, so is that right? So right now there are nine nine different zones that we have cameras. Is that right? >> Three, four, five, six, seven, eight, actually. Right. >> Okay. Uh, but a mixture of um um uh board of ed schools and and private schools. >> Correct. And and we um applied for permits to to utilize these at all schools, public and private, and we can add cameras at later dates depend but these were

015the places where there was the most speeding going on. Um I also um I said we we also have the opportunity uh like when uh Central Middle School um and I've been involved in some of the planning for that. We'll be adjusting the location of the cameras when the traffic pattern changes um in that in that location also. >> And then there was a there was a press release this week about adding it to the high school. Is that >> right? Um but again some of the the roads are some it's the logistics are difficult. So, I know some people talked about speed bumps and other things that are um you know, possibilities, but speed bumps do cause a problem for um causing damage to especially emergency vehicles if they have to respond to emergencies.

016>> Questions? >> Karen, >> great. >> Um Chief, thanks for being here. Um a few folks have reached out with questions about privacy. Could you clarify, do these cameras capture all license plates or just the license plates of people speeding? And is there any chance they capture images of children? >> Um the no images of the uh occupants. Um, you know, when I first I didn't get to see the warning tickets when they first came up, but they're basically going on the license plate and um the retention is limited um for the violators init, you know, for initially they they retain all the information, but then once we get the tickets or the warnings done, that's the information that's retained until it's fully adjudicated. But um I'm besides being the police chief here, I'm also

017the vice president of the Connecticut Police Chiefs Association and next year we'll be the president. Um we are trying to address concerns that some organizations have about privacy and generally speaking we have a number of license plate readers in town. Um and it's actually it's almost as if I asked you to ask that question. Um the license plate readers were a critical component of of making that arrest. it was the technology that helped us. So, um I think that at some point there'll probably be some limitation uh to how long we keep just general information unless it's a violator. Um and and we don't want to keep stuff a long time because uh it's crippling expensive the data storage. So, we generally our license plate readers after 90 days are are clear. So um and

018the officer reviews the material um and then the next person will be uh somebody appointed by the selectman you know and they'll have a non-disclosure statement uh agreement that they'll have to sign. So >> Karen, go ahead. >> Oh thanks. Um I the other question much much like Karen uh that uh you know wasn't just about privacy but it's also how the hours that these are on. Are they on 24/7? Is it just when there's lights? Is it just during school hours, during the week, etc.? >> Sure. Currently, it's um 1 half hour before first bell and and a half hour after last spell. You know, when the lights are flashing, we enforce the speed that the flashing light indicates to 20 or 25. And during the school day, which again there's still a concern

019for safety of the ch children, uh it would enforce the normal speed limit, which is either 25 or 30. Um, but it's not I don't want you driving up Riversville Road fast after, you know, at six o'clock because you think you're safe. So, still the right speed limits. >> Thank you. >> I think the town of Greenwich's website is a little bit behind, but I think we can ask them to the the the um town hall. They still have more locations to follow, only listing five. And um they're indicating um that this is only during during school hours and only when the only when the lights are flashing. Um oh, I'll I'll get on that rig tomorrow. Just >> And I know that's not the Greenwich Police Department website, so not [laughter] [clears throat] >>

020pointing fingers over there. No. No. So, personally, just speaking for myself, I mean, uh, thank you. I think this is terrific. I mean, if you've realized a 90% um reduction in some of these places where you've installed these cameras, I mean, that's that that says it right there. I mean, I I'm just speaking for myself, they um I think with all deliberate speed, I'd love to see them across town. I don't know what other other people think, but but I think it's I think it's this is this is vitally important and the safety of our kids and it's really great stuff, >> right? And like I said, we'll we're going to keep looking at we'll keep giving you guys uh the update on on how it goes and then um you said there's definitely going

021to be some growing pains. We'll have to adjust things a little bit. So, >> um, do you know is there a roll out at the high school just I mean we have a lot of student drivers who certainly I think they would benefit from slowing down but you know are they is Ralph Mayo going to sort of do a PSA of hey by the way there you know for the kids to know >> right are our two school resource officers they have um Ask Wall-E a TV show internal one that they get a lot more clicks than the chief show on um but um but they've been putting the word out and we've We've actually had a lot of of recent interaction because we've talked a lot about um the ebikes which is a challenge.

022So we just put out a um a new flyer on that and we've tried to inform parents to be more cautious about allowing you know and wearing helmets and uh you know Ralph has been out there with the two SRO um uh giving some educational guidance about their operation of those. So that's you know and like I said he runs a tight ship over there so it's >> great. Thank you. >> I'm just curious, is this coming from from you or is this coming from the governor or Hartford or I mean I know that this is they're they're starting to implement these cameras and like all over the country. So I just wanted to know. >> So um we've had license plate readers for a number of years. Um initially they were on the police

023cars and as the technology got better uh we also have fixed uh cameras. Um, and those have been, like I said, critical in some uh major crime, you know, solving a number of crimes. Um, I think it's just as the law changed to allow these speed cameras to be used their schools and that, you know, and we're one of the I think we're one of the first six or 10 um towns that got it approved. So, there wasn't any particular uh push and we this particular model saved we didn't have to put any outlay. I think if I had to go to the the BET for money for something and they had no guarantee for a return, I might not have been able to been as successful. But I think this particular model is working

024pretty well for us so far. So, um but I think the license plate reader is is the place, you know, is the way to go. Um, you know, we have coordination with other states and other towns that it really has, um, you know, sol helped us solve some autothefts, solve some burglaries, um, and, you know, missing persons. Uh, a person who was, uh, had Alzheimer's that we were able to, you know, see the car and and it alerted at headquarters and the officer stopped it within a within a few blocks and it really made a big difference that way. So, um, but I think the technology is still developing and we have to always be cautious that no one will abuse that. So, Chief, thank you for your time. Um, well, while I'm here, before

025I I don't mind, I'll leave right away after that. Uh, I just want to see if you had any questions about the school resource officers or about the um u the cameras. I know that you know we have over 600 cameras at board of ed um you know that come back to police headquarters and and that Brent is uh monitoring here as well. Um but again that's another um thing that we do that you know we don't talk about all our successes because some of the things we talk about for security we can't in the public we we have to h have that but uh even at Eastern middle school there's been some improvements um to that particular uh school area. So I just thought if in case you guys have any questions about that

026>> um just similar to my previous question on privacy do you have a similar retention policy that after 90 days >> yeah 90 days unless there is a criminal matter or investigation open so you know one of the challenges we had was that uh for DWIS people were waiting um we if it's a criminal matter we keep them for two years on a a motor vehicle so the lawyers were waiting until we after 24 months and and they were asking for the case to be reopened. So now we keep DWIs indefinitely so that the attorneys will have less to um to do with that. But you know if it's a criminal matter we'll keep it a long time. But anything noncriminal it's 90 days and we change it. Oh this was easy. This isn't >>

027so I have to wear not wear my uniform more often. >> So but thank you appreciate your >> comments. Yep. So next on the uh on the board agenda is um the BOE committee assignments. So we put this on the agenda. So every time every November um we create new assignments uh for the committee. There are two standing committees of the board and then then over time there have been different ad hoc committees. Um and then there are uh official representatives that the board has to other um entities in town. Um I put this on the agenda um not to talk about uh people's individual assignments. Um if you want to talk to me about the assignments, feel free to talk to me offline. They um some people have, but for the most for the

028most point, I think the assignments um sound like people are pretty happy or or copathetic with the assignments. But I put it on the agenda because uh we're kind we did do something a little differently here in that we've tried to um in talking to Sophie we've tried to give the different committees a little bit of a charge or a little bit of sense of direction. And the reason why we did that, um, some of you know, years ago in my hometown in New Jersey, I was on the board of ed there for, um, six years. And so I have a little bit different experience. And I know that in that board um a lot of what the real work got done at the committee level for all the reasons of sunshine laws and everything

029else there's only so much that really we can it gets done when eight of us are sitting around in public with microphones around a skirted table with 100 people yelling at us. Um so um I don't know my own personal concern is that um as a board we maybe have not been taking advantage of the committee structure um as well as we could have as far you know in in the past committees have met um intermittently. U the budget committee meets around budget time and then we'll go um months at a time. Um and that's nobody's fault. That's just kind of been standard operating procedure. And so this is a um a thought that I want to put out there and that's why I put it on the agenda around trying to give uh the

030committees um a little bit more of a a a charge or purpose um to carry forth um some of the board work um at that level in a more meaningful way so that then they can come back to the full board table and we can we can move forward with with some some some issues that that we know we're facing. Um, case in point, as an example, one of the things that we put on the u or I'm s we're suggesting on the uh that the the budget committee look at is transportation. Um, and because we know that transportation has been a uh source of frustration for a number of reasons, but on the funding side, we know that the transportation course here and many other districts have been through the roof. Um, and maybe

031it's something we need to at the committee level can look at as far as everything from how those contracts are formed. Um, how we're funding transportation and some of those other studies that I know Ben and and and and Mike and everybody are looking at, but um using the using the the budget committee as a lens might be able to forward that work a little bit more um meaningfully. Um, so that's kind of kind of an example there, but I'll stop babbling because I was hoping to um um instead get other people's feedback and uh a sense of of what what people think of that of all that this idea of a committee charge in general. >> I think the idea is great. Thank you for putting it together. My only question um I guess

032clarification is for meeting cadence will that be the responsibility of the chair of the committee to organize um organize and keep record of the meetings? >> Yes. So and the meeting cadence is uh you know as as chair I do not have the authority to determine your meeting cadence. So that's suggested based on past president. Um um I made myself chair of the or kept myself chair of the policy committee for example um we meet bi-weekly. The reason why which we found successful last time the reason why we do that is we have shorter meetings. Um policy um you can you can talk a lot for a very long time about policy and not get a lot done. We try to keep those meetings to an hour and instead meeting bi-weekly and that has a

033chance to go back and have second reads and get things done and multiple drafts instead of all sitting around and word smithing something for for three hours. So that's kind of why that's the idea behind that. But yeah, as the the individual chairs of the committees I' I'd um um um by by our bylaws I would I would defer to the individual chairs for the real determination of of the cadence. Karen Hirs, go ahead. >> No, I was I >> I appreciate though that we we have speaking of bylaws that we have maintained our tradition of having we've we affirmed our tradition of having two Karens on the board again though. Karen H. Go ahead. >> Um no, I was just going to say, you know, especially with the standing committees there, you know, typically

034they do have um their tasks set ahead for them because they're in policy. um you know in the majority of them and so you know that that's out uh laid out but I love the idea that you know we're you know trying to set a more regular schedule which we used to have um but so that's what I was going to say for the new members um a lot of the standing committees uh do have a very specific uh uh you know um charge in in hand um but not not a set schedule if that helps but I know we have some new committees this year as in that in an effort to stay on schedule here so and waste a few minutes to get to eight o'clock for your next agenda item. Um, I

035think it's great. Uh, you know, definitely, um, taking smaller bites, you know, um, and then bringing bigger meals to the table. Um, so I think it's a great idea. Thank you. >> Yeah, just before Yeah, before we move on. >> So, so protocol, I do have to I do have to recognize folks, but go ahead. >> Uh, sure. Could you just briefly talk about the role of uh these representatives that you've listed out? >> So historically, so all the um there are different entities in town where we historically send um a representative. Um everything from EAC to the BE uh to the BET to the RTM. Um what I tried to do was um some of these are bigger roles than others. um um you know as depending on how often a meeting these meeting

036these these folks meet. So for example, Bob is the RTM chair uh RTM representative um because Bob has RTM experience um and that is a the RTM is a very big organization um obviously so that is a much more um heavy assignment. So um so reason why Bob only has one but also so I rated that high whereas everything else is medium and then some of them are kind of low touch like the distinguished teacher for example is not all year round it's just during their their season when they're adjudicating um and defending those awards and awards. Uh building committees um we um anticipate an unprecedented five building committees. Um those are all high um responsibilities. Most building committees um will often meet bi-weekly if not weekly depending on where they are in the process.

037So um we I tried to balance out if you have a building committee assignment um you have less of some other representatives. >> I just wanted to say I think it's I think it's a great idea working together. I think I'm excited to work with my curriculum committee and collaborate with them on screen time. So that's it. We will now move on to the next agenda item keeping with the idea of retreat. So the next agenda item is BOE norms. Um Sophie and I Sophie Tony and I had some conversations about BOE norms um that Sophie u wanted to bring to the table. I think it's great though, but but uh so Sophie's going to take the lead on this. Um so actually when I was we had a good conversation just talking about um

038you now that we have board new board members like what the expectations are for essentially it's kind of basic like being prepared for meetings um attending meetings whatnot and then I was doing a little research and of course I discovered there are two bylaws that are relevant um so I'm not going to read them especially one of them is extremely long um but we do have an expectation for board members. It's 9273 and it goes on for several pages. So, everybody could read it themselves. And then we have a code of ethics which is 9271. Um, but I think what I really liked about them is I'm going to just highlight a couple things with the code of ethics that it says the board members and superintendent will always carry out their respective roles with

039the highest level of professionalism, on honesty, and integrity. and we recognize that we represent the entire community and they must ensure that the community remains fully uh informed on all school related matters. And then there's about 15 other bullets that I'm not going to read. Um and with the first one um with 9273 it talks about attending all board meetings in so far as possible listening respectively to everyone who communicates with the board um people come to present as well as fellow board members and modeling civility. I just think it's um and talks about meeting protocol which is coming prepared identifying issues of concern before the meeting whenever possible. Something was interesting that frankly we did we haven't done the past two years. It says circulate proposed motions and amendments whenever possible at least 48

040hours prior to the meeting. >> Yeah. Which I liked that one. I was like we certainly haven't done that. So um and minimizing unnecessary repetition which I know that um one of Mike's big uh goals is running efficient meetings um and having them be a little shorter. So, I like to see that that was in there, but um it's nice to see that of course other boards have already considered all of this. And so, I think my recommendation in the interest of being efficient is that everybody should pull up these two policies and read through them. Um but I would welcome conversation on this. One thing I will notice and and since we were talking about screens and Wendy just mentioned them, I find screens super distracting and that's why I don't bring my iPad

041to meetings, but I know a lot of people like to have their computers and Paul, you were referencing like it's much easier for those of us who need reading glasses and I'm one of those people. So, I know people have their screens for all sorts of reasons, but I especially feel like when we have the public um speaking that we all should be looking up as much as possible because I know sometimes we forget how um passionate our speakers are and how much time and effort they've put into their comments. Um, and there's and I there has been feedback from the public of feeling like the board is not listening sometimes and this is not in reference to anyone in particular and certainly new new the new board members like you're brand new but so

042I think this is that we can all do better um and just be mindful of like when the public is is there is I think especially and also when we have outsiders coming in to do presentations like they really care um that they know that we're listening and I think it also makes for a much more efficient meeting if people are listening too. So that's all I have to say about it. Um but I hope everybody can look at those two bylaws because I think they're really helpful >> was 9273 and 9271. >> Yes. >> Any other thoughts? >> All right. Thanks Sophie for that reminder. That's helpful. Okay. So we're going to move on to the heart of the meeting. Um, so we have two uh bigger discussions this more uh this evening. The

043first one is the GHS pool feasibility study. So I'm going to turn it over to Dr. Jones who has some updates before we can talk about some things. >> Sure. And we did get the questions answered today. There was confusion about which set we were answering before, but um hopefully you've all had a chance to look at those. Um so we will get them also posted if they're not already. Um, I'm going to actually ask Mr. Bran to come forward because we've been doing a lot of work on this project and just kind of want to update where we are as of tonight. >> I think the the elephant in the room is the tennis issue and so we have uh had a very productive meeting with uh tennis stakeholders. Uh actually this morning I

044already had a meeting with the design team uh which is AECOM and anti Anton antinazi. Uh they're taking a fresh hard look at the concerns raised about how do you uh keep the tennis court courts on the campus with the driveway and the pool. So I met with them. They're going to be spending their uh their Christmas gift to me. they said is they're going to spend the Christmas season to work on this and we'll regroup early January and then uh get together with both the feasibility committee and the and the tennis community just to to vet vet the concerns but the engineers are taking a look at turning radius there's a significant grade issue they're they're dealing with and of course we all know the environmental issues there as well so we're just trying

045to thread the needle on all those issues so the I think we mentioned in the Q&A that was distributed as well as uh no action will be taken at the December 18th uh meeting. Uh the document is not ripe for uh any I think any any action. I think that was well known uh well uh certainly communicated very uh very passionately and uh correctly to us. So we're working on uh that. So I think the key thing is no action will be taken. I think that superintendent mentioned it will not even be on the agenda. So there shouldn't be any uh concern that action or or further discussion should occur on that because it's just not it's no longer ripe for discussion. I think that's the biggest uh development that we've had. Uh so we'll

046no more early January uh and then we can regroup with with everyone. >> Let me just put a finer point on that because um we got a couple emails today kind of conflating um the budget vote um and the pool vote. So because we are going to take action next week or we're scheduled to take action next week on the operating budget for next year. So it's important for anybody at home um in um who's paying attention to the pool discussion that that budget vote and the operating isn't the vote on the pool. >> Correct. And I'll put a finer finer point on that is the the capital budget was already approved and the capital budget's already in front of the office the first selectman. The first selectman is the one who presents the capital

047budget. We have a the only item in the capital budget for pool is is a 4 million for A&E but that's already that's in front uh but that has zero uh interaction with the operating budget that's before you >> can you actually explain what A&E is just for a lot of people don't understand >> uh architectural engineering so the traditional process and we it's done with Riverside as well you you put a couple you usually it's a couple million dollars uh ahead so you can do the design you uh and then you build in year two or year three depending on the cash flow for the project you put the larger construction number. So the normal process we use and I think rivers riverside's a good example the year we're sitting in we were funded

0482 million for architectural engineering the BET put the conditions of 1.4 4 million. So that is uh because the process is you need to get MI. So we worked on that process that 600,000 is is a is a number that we should be able to accomplish the goal of MI. So that's the process that we use for Riverside. That's the same process we would use for uh the pool. But uh there's no plan to spend that money until a we have to get funded, but also what are we actually building? So, how did we come up with the 4 million number? >> Working with the uh the architects and the engineers on what what was necessary if you're going to build the pool that was uh in the edspecs through design. That would be the

049that would be the number that's not the number you need for MI. >> It just seems like a really large number just for a pool, you know? It's not it's not even the entire you know extended project that we may be talking about. >> No. And that's that's to get you the design documents to go through the whole the whole process to go to contract. So there's a lot of components in there. It is a big number and we it took a while for us to settle on what's the correct number needed in order to go to go to bid for construction. That's the that's the number. >> I thought that we were supposed to take a sketch to PMZ. Isn't that following the charter? Isn't there something about bringing a sketch to PNZ and

050then coming back and getting this $4 million number? >> I'm not sure we're doing this in the right >> I I hear the question. I believe we are doing it in the right order. Is the the four million is way too much for for MI. So just let's just use the Riverside example. We we asked two million for Riverside and we worked collaboratively with the BET and they said what's the number you need for MI and we believe a a solid number for municipal improvement is uh 600,000. So they conditioned the 2 million and if you look in the budget book it shows you that 1.4 of the 2 million is conditioned. So we can't touch that. But now that we have the 600,000 is unencumbered, now that the RTM is has appointed the building

051committee, they're going to have their organizational meeting in January. They have funds available to start the MI process. But before they even do that, they have to go through the entire architect process to to to have an architective record on on uh for the project and then they will start going through the EDS specs and doing the preliminary design. But it's a it's a very good distinction. They are not approving the plan. uh for MI they're just approving the concept that based on what's being in front of him like the massing of the building this makes sense from a municipal improvement perspective Bob >> I had a question about the the egress is the does the town pay for the egress or does the does it is it put in the the specs for the

052pool and if the town does pay for it are they do they have the understanding that they should not do anything with that until we figure out what we're doing with the pool. So, so the board of ed has always carried that project in its capital budget. Uh we have it in uh the year we're sitting in. Uh we received I think it was 75,000 for design or construction design engineering review of the egress or the the driveway. So we have engaged AECOM because of their intimate knowledge of the of the campus with the with the environment. So they're working on that. We carry I think in year four or year five of the capital budget 7 million for the egress and the biggest part of that is not just the driveway it's it's a

053bridge the bridge is the biggest component of that because of the the water works the way that has to cross over but we've always carried that and I think uh it would is is appropriately placed in the board of eds budget because it's on our campus. Yeah, >> that makes sense. Thank you. Veronica, >> thank you. Um, at what part of this process is a building committee formed and who uh what air who will be on the building committee and more specifically I'm asking will there be representation from all areas of the community all stakeholders that's the word I wanted to use. So for the for the pool once the educational specs are approved by the board of education the superintendent then would submit a formal letter to the first selectman asking for them to

054start the process of of forming a building committee. The board of selectmen nominates the members after they go through their process of of of going through the all the people interested they do interviews they go through that process then they nominate to the RTM. So there's no specific um at any point is there like a specific list of stakeholders like you'd have a representative from the pool. I would think a representative maybe from from security would be important because of the egress. Uh somebody from um the tennis team. Uh I'm sure I'm missing lots, but >> so so the the the those are all names that would would just pass common sense. They should be considered for for the nomination. Those are not enumerated in the charter. The charter just says you need to have

055five to I think seven uh elect uh electorate of the town and then they say there's one representative from the the board of ed, one representative from the BBT. So it's up to the selectmen uh to to deal with is it five or seven and what's the best makeup? I think you saw that with Riverside. They were just struggling with and I think they even mentioned it at the RTM just how do they get certain people with certain skill sets for for the for the building committee. Thank you. Cameron. >> Um, thanks. Um, I know it's early days. Do you have a sense um for the extent to which this pool would is anticipated to be available for the public to enjoy outside of school hours and other swim team use. >> That that was

056always the uh component of of the feasibility that it's it's not just a high school athletic uh program. It it is a community asset and and certainly just like any any of our other facilities if you look at the campus the or any of our athletic fields the the ghs takes priority and then the balance is then coordinated with parks and recck for the for the community. Uh so there are athletic directors constantly talking with the parks and recck director on oh we no longer need that field and uh that then they quickly reach out to the community who may have practice somewhere else and said oh field six opened up and then everyone runs there. So, we certainly try to maximize the the community um value. >> Paul, I just wanted to double back

057to Mr. Cheney. Um maybe I missed the answer and I apologize if you're reiterating, but um the early part of the question was we want to make sure the road doesn't go forward until the pool has been decided, until the tennis courts have been decided. And it sounds like I think included in going forward is the $600,000 here for the MI the $75,000 for the MI on the road and should those be combined at what early stage should they be combined and I think I've certainly had some conversations um that they should be combined. Um you know it's puzzle one's got to go somewhere or the other won't won't fit. you. I think the puzzle is a great analogy. I threw too many numbers out. Completely ignore the 600,000. It has absolutely nothing to do

058with the pool. So, has nothing to do with the pool. That that is that is the Riverside. I was just using as an example. The this this nothing to do with the pool. The 75,000 was the money that we have now for design for the the driveway. We yeah you we we are we are ae is has been engaged with the with the pool work because of that coordination and we certainly will not move one forward without the other. I think the puzzle is a good good analogy. It's a puzzle and we have to make sure we the pieces fit together. >> And if we were to add anything else to that puzzle, where along the lines and what authority does this board have to do that? There's other things that are going on at

059the high school that you know could affect this and um uh how do we add? So I I would say the the document the most important document is the educational specifications. So that's that's what's that's your the board is then saying this is what we want built with these these needs and the ed the EDS specs uh and we see in a final version will will include uh both the the driveway and the pool. Where does that fit? If if we were not talking about if we were last week we would say it's three components and I still would say it's three components today. It's the tennis, it's the driveway, it's the pool. How do those puzzle pieces fit together? Prior to this meeting, we were saying it was relocating the tennis courts off campus.

060Again, that message was received loud and clear. So, it's those three puzzle pieces, the tennis, the driveway, and the pool. How do we figure those out? Those should be in in one edspec, the concept. So, one building committee, it it makes from my perspective zero sense to have three building committees dealing with that because the coordination of that alone, and I think eventually you're going to run out of volunteers. Yeah, we're got we're going to run out of board members. [laughter] >> So, let me let me lead the witness a little further. On the road, I suspect I suspect there's going to be lights on the road for safety. Will there be will there be lights included in these conversations? So, I I'll just politely say is we refer to it as a driveway. We

061we always say driveway. Um so, the driveway likely will have some type of safety safety lights. I would not equate those to any type of uh lights that uh people generally get concerned about for lighting uh athletic fields. >> Karen H. Go ahead. Well, I think you know Ben partially a uh answered what I was going to ask being that you know the second egress and the tennis courts I mean the tennis courts uh have reached the end of their their life as it is and they were always needed to needing to be moved in order to be able to put in the second egress. This is something we've known for years. Um, and that was one uh project and now with the pool. Um, so it says you you know cuz I didn't think

062we would you don't need a building uh committee unless you're getting funding back. Is that correct from the state? >> No, the MI >> the Yeah, the chart their language was recently changed a couple years ago that it used to be that but the language was changed that if any project requires an MI, it then requires a building committee. >> Okay. Well, then it makes perfect sense, I think, then to like put all three of them together because I was going to say depending, we don't want one project held up based on the other one, whether it's slowmoving. I know we've been waiting for state approval to cut um cut that, you know, uh curb and have access to the state road there. So, I mean, I suppose that that's moved forward as well. Also,

063I just don't want it if if we put it all as one project and one thing still gets held up, we don't want it to hold up the other parts of this project. If we're if we're putting them all together, the pool, the tennis courts, and the and the uh egress. >> 100% agreed. I I would just It's important to remember the curb cuts already there. The the curb cut is there. The parking the ADA parking uh lot is there. It's really how do you connect an existing parking lot that was installed during the the Cardinal Stadium renovation? How do you connect that parking lot to the parking lot behind the the uh high school? And do you have to go over a river or a water water course? That that requires the the issue.

064>> The ADA parking lot's the one right next to the stadium. >> Yes. >> We had to move trees and a whole bunch bunch of stuff to put that in there too and stuff. So, >> yes. >> Yeah. >> Brian, >> thank you. I'm sure this question is the answer is online, so I apologize. Um, and I could look it up. Central Middle School has currently two tennis courts, but I heard somewhere that maybe they're expanding to four. They have four and they're keeping four. >> They're they have four and the current plan does not touch the tennis courts. So, tennis courts as they exist will continue to exist as they exist. >> Thank you. other questions. So, so one thing it sounds like I'm hearing as far as um an emerging consensus is the

065I'm going to put words in your mouth, uh Ben, but um combining the different aspects of this project under one um building committee eventually uh but tennis road pool as opposed basically uh total you know ghs campus type um building committee um as we move forward here. That is that's kind of what we're hear I'm hearing, but I know this is still [snorts] early days and we've got a lot of work to do to flush that out. Is that fair? >> I I'll accept those words in my mouth. >> Yeah, I would. If you don't mind us, I'll point out just uh I think it's it's somewhat relevant is we already have three of those capital projects. They are in our capital plan. They're just in outer years. So now at this point, it's just

066taking a uh trying to move those outer years in. So those three projects are sitting in the capital plan uh that's been presented >> and um I suspect some of the leading of the witness over here was um um wondering if there might be other aspects of the campus u plan in outer years that we might want to consider too but I think that's a conversation for a little for a later date. Um um that said, we know that there's a current uh price tag um attached to the plan that we saw last week. Um and we know there's a lot of contingencies and other things built into that. I don't know if you could speak a little bit more because I know there's been a lot of conversations um over the last couple of

067weeks around um those numbers and and putting putting a little bit of a finer tooth or a finer um point on some of them. I didn't mean to jump. I didn't mean to put you on the spot, but >> it's a big number. It's that's that's probably an understatement, but it's it's a big number. I that's everyone leads with that when we we talk about the pool. You they mention the pool and then they just look at me and say that's a big number. Uh it at this point I'm just going to say it is what it is. We we believe based on the work we've done this this is the number. We part of this whole process we engaged a professional estimator based on the concepts that have been talked about. That's the key

068is its concepts. You know, they don't didn't they don't have construct they don't have design documents to go through. I think they did a very detailed job of it, but it it is a big number. And I I think also when we talk about the the size of the number and I I think you mentioned it at the at the last board meeting too is the how do you start having the conversations about private donations uh to help to help uh offset that. Uh the couple of the conversations I've had with uh some BET members is and I'll just since I have the mic I'll say it is it's I think it's been very important to uh the words I've been using is we should not have projects that are paytoplay. Uh this is an

069educational asset. Uh no one asks the community to fund Central Middle School. Uh no one asked the community to have a private partnership for old Greenwich School. Uh but that being said, the pool certainly lends itself very easily to uh having private donations and I I think that is going to be a very uh strong component to help this project move forward and especially now it's the three big puzzle pieces if if not more. Uh so I'll call it three puzzle pieces. Uh I think you the board should how do we want to move forward with uh endorsing that concept of of uh private donations for the pool? Uh yeah, Ben, I'm going to going to challenge you a little bit on some of the things you said. Um you know, one the the examples

070the other two expensive examples you gave uh were to educate children. Um and I do believe that our primary mission is academics is education. I I think sports play a role. Um but I don't think they are at the same level as educating. Um and two, you know, I I would challenge you to look at some of the educational spe uh specifications with the lens of wants versus needs. Um you know, looking through that there are there are a lot of offices, a lot of rooms, a very large entryway. Um I would I would challenge the group to go back and and see what is truly necessary versus what would they love to have. >> Understood. Then let's talk about the the the aspects of the pool. >> Precisely. >> Other thoughts on that questions?

071>> So all that said, we do have um um a draft resolution on the agenda tied to that um supporting the formation of an independent 501c3 nonprofit organization to support fundraising for this for this project. And I don't know um I don't got to you Dr. Jones or Ben um who's who's who's best positioned to talk talk about that a little bit. This is not an action item. This is this is this is this is this is for us to read read through. >> I I might just kick it off and just say that we wanted we want the board um as quickly as we can to be able to support fundraising and we need your support in order to do that. Um it is not something that Ben would manage or or we would

072manage as the school district. it. This is about a 5013C and we've already have interest in the community to do that. But the sooner we get it started, the sooner we can get on with um you know, actually having a capital campaign and getting people excited about this project. So, Ben, I'll let you get into the weeds of of the document itself. >> I I wish the document could be shorter. I think if you know me, I really try to be how how condensed could I be? So, I was I was actually embarrassed. I go, it's a three-page document. I I don't do three-page documents, but uh uh I I think I think given the the perplexity of it, it's important just to itemize out u where some of those those issues. I think the

073absolute like brass tax of the issue is if you endorse this concept, you then allow the this group to to to talk to use the the logos and to use all of the things that represent the district because they are going to be representing the district to certain way. So that I think that's the biggest endorsement. But but also going back to the prior comment, this really says we we support this and uh we recognize the the cost tag. But I think we tried to put in just some generic uh sort of general things that you would expect. This is the first cut first draft. There's no no pride of ownership or authorship on this. So if you want to have changes or uh edits or corrections, by all means uh let us know. But

074we as we were just thinking through what what do we need sort of need? These are sort of those those bigger topics that came up. Um, so I I 100% agree with you that I think this document um, you know, shows that we're supportive of private donations for this pool and I think it's a great idea. I also am going to point out it it shows that the board is not taking responsibility for raising the private donations which I think is also probably really important to the board um to make that clear right that that we appreciate that is a critical piece. It just I want to kind of go back to what you were saying about paytoplay like and all of that. Um you know I think this is an amazing opportunity. I definitely

075want it to be very clear to everyone that we're not setting the precedent that going forward for buildings and things like that. We're always going to have a a private fundraising component that this is kind of a a special project because it can have a lot more community use. And this is would only would be the only public um indoor public like com competitive pool in the town of Greenwich. So it's kind of your unique opportunity. Um yeah because there isn't I mean every other pool in Greenwich that you can actually indoor pool that's competitive you have to belong and pay money to swim there. So this would be a real asset to the community which I feel like is is part of to me what the appeal would be in terms of fundraising. Um,

076but anyway, I just want to point out the flip side of it is we're also saying we 100% are excited about this and also it's not our responsibility to raise the money and we, you know, we're glad to um lend our support in the sense of cheerleading you on, but it's but the 501c3 is going to be the ones raising the money and doing all the accounting and whatnot. >> Miss Hurst, please go ahead. So since this is something that's generally new for us this discussion of um an exter external uh 501c3 um you know I had a couple of questions one was you know who's on the 501c3 you know who who would be selecting the members of the foundation committee who who does this committee you know foundation committee answer to is it

077only to the board of ed or or other elected representatives do we have like thoughts on that and you or like how how is that happening? >> Just a I would respond that uh the board does does not have the the as set up you're not picking who's on the board or on on this on this 501c3. We put in controls where you give reports out. I think the key too is on the gift acceptance is the you always retain the board retains just as any gift. If there's sort restrictions or strings attached, you can say no because it's ultimately the you're you are running the project. You're in controlling the project with the EDS specs. It's not it's not the the donor community. Uh so you don't you're not giving that control up. I

078I think the important it's a little bit of maybe the the cart and the horse which one is which one's first is if you put this out there we we know there's already um community members out there working on on this for and and we've heard they're they're working on the the the formalization of the 501c3. I think this just will will dovetail nicely into to to their to their work. And once I think if this gets done, uh, we'll we'll quickly know who's out there and who's who's leading who's leading this project. >> Okay. I mean, just cuz, you know, the question then is if you know, if they're answering specifically to us or other elected bodies or representatives, I think that there's, you know, a lot of detail that we still need to

079know. And I think additionally my other question was on um under where was it on page two under now you know after you wrote now therefore be it resolved by the Greenwich board of education that uh number three said purpose and use of funds. It said the foundation's organizing documents and fundraising material shall state that the funds are raised exclusively for charitable and educational purposes benefiting Greenwich public schools including the pool project. So that you know if this is not specifically only for the pool project then I think that there's probably some other language that might need to go into here because everything else in this document specifically speaks to the pool. Um but number three suggests it could be for other purposes. So I think I think there's a you know I love this

080idea actually and I think it's a great great idea because you know quite honestly the board is focused on many other things and you know fundraising uh what was not uh on our list of list of things to do. Um, but I think this is fantastic. Um, you know, having worked in other organizations like the PTA, which does a ton of um, fundraising for schools and so forth. So, I I just think if number three is saying it's benefiting the schools, including the project, it means that it's for other things as well. And the rest of the document speaks specifically to the pool. So, I think we either need to revise section number three or uh, revise the rest of the document. the sorry the the intent there and if it wasn't clear we certainly

081can adjust it is going back to the puzzle pieces is the intent there is to have a broader scope of maybe there's somebody out there who wants to donate for the driveway or or or the tennis or t so that's that that the intent there was to have a broader broader scope then but if it's if there's conflicts in other doc sections we can we can look at that >> yeah yeah that's why I'm saying either number three wouldn't need to be revised or the rest of the document because it specifically stipulates pool project and so I would I would you know just revise just what's included in said pool project or if it's for other projects beyond the pool you know project which would be tennis etc etc that's all >> it's it's it's

082a good point if the if the previous part of this conversation talked about you know an interest in expanding the scope officially expanding the scope of whatever building committee um eventually takes this on beyond just the pool. Um, one wonders if this resolution should be um um so so so pool pool ccentric. Um maybe that's marketing. Um but maybe that maybe that's something else to to think about because you know we we we know firsthand there's a lot of very passionate people in the tennis community on this issue. For example, >> it could say I mean you could say pool slashtennis whatever it might be or just or put a sentence in that defines what the pool project did. whole project includes X, Y, and Z. That's all. I I just think it's confusing one

083way or the other. That's all. >> Yeah. Paul, before we would jump into that, I'd like to hear from uh professionals in the um that that did some fundraising for the Y. There's other projects that have have already uh traveled down this particular path. Uh I just want to be thoughtful of uh if we get too broad um you know we may people may not want to donate. Uh I I I like the fact that we're talking about it. Um but uh let's make sure that we have all stakeholders which are going to be um uh are going to include the people that are looking to raise this money and like you I think someone just said it a moment ago a little bit of marketing in here. Um, and I do like the fact

084I actually looked at number three and when we when I got there, uh, enjoyed the fact that it did stick that in there, right? It wasn't a main part of it, but it put it in there. Um, where Greenwich Public Schools, including pools, um, because it seems to me that after that, what it says is that it's up to this board um, whether to accept it and where to spend it. So, we would have all of those rights if it was going all to the pool, if it went somewhere else. Thank you. >> Go ahead, Car. >> Yeah. Um, more a comment than a question. Um, but Ben, you know, I I wanted to express my appreciation for for the outreach you've done to the tennis community. It was a concern I'd raised at our

085at our meeting on November 20th. Um, and uh, for transparency. Well, two things. One, for transparency. I I did play varsity tennis. So I am I was a varsity swimmer before that. [laughter] Um but um look, speaking for myself, I I could not personally support a pool proposal that results in the tennis team or another team being kicked off campus to make room for the pool. >> To to echo Karen, um I I too played varsity tennis at Greenwich High School. Um, and I would not be in favor for moving them to another campus. Definitely not. >> Okay. You ready to move on? >> All right. So, it sounds like on the pool issue, there's um obviously a lot more work to come. The um no decisions next week. Um and we'll we'll we'll take

086this back up in January. Thank you, sir. >> Thank you. >> I don't know if you're going anywhere, though. >> All right. Right. And now for the main event, the uh major decision before us um this month is um the operating budget um technically um by town charter we should we have to make a decision on this before the end of the year. So we're scheduled to vote next week. This is we've had a couple of uh public comment sessions on this but this is really the first time as a board that we've had opportunity the eight of us to really talk about the operating budget. Um in the past um this board has spent a lot of u most of this time talking about one item or two items. Um, so we're going to

087try to structure this was Sophie and I were talking we're going to try to structure this conversation a little bit different to make sure that we cover um all of um all the aspects of the operating budget. Um so there are three kind of buckets um well four. First we're going to turn it over to um Ben and Dr. Jones for any uh updates or clarifications. And I know we had a finance meeting uh budget meeting um um this week. So we want to yesterday want to update on that. But then there are three buckets of conversation. Um the first one being on start time and transportation which we know was a major issue last year. We want to um talk about that a little bit um um because that does not change in this

088budget. The second one is the changes at CMS um which could easily take over the whole conversation and we're going to try not to do that because there are other aspects of the budget although it's a very important um issue before us and certainly there were a lot of people in the community very concerned about it and then the third other questions and concerns about the operating budget as a whole um because like we said it's a big budget there's a lot of things in it so we want to make sure we provide time for all of that um all that said um Sophie I know we had a finance um meeting yesterday. So, I don't know if you and and uh Mr. Benny and Dr. Jones wanted to just update us on on that

089conversation this week. >> Sure. Yeah. Um it was a good meeting. It was about an hour long. Honestly, we primarily talked about Central Middle School. So, so I don't want to like, you know, steal everybody's centers um by jumping into that right away, but that that was the primary conversation. So, I feel like probably we should let Dr. and Ben like give an update and then we can get into the conversation. >> I will say I think the document we sent today that um capitalizes kind of on the questions that you asked yesterday is very helpful but you would have to bring that up in your email because it is not in your packet um because we just had yet from yesterday to today to get them done questions being for folks at home. Yeah,

090but there's there's some good questions where you're looking at like you asked things about how many tuition students are at each school. Um there's information about class size. What does our middle school look like in comparison to K5 and what does that look like going into next year? Um and because we've had a lot of discussion about teameing Ben, do you have that document sitting in front of you, the one we did today? >> I do not. >> Okay. >> It's also posted to board docs. Sorry. Is that just Q&A 3, the one that was posted? So, I have it in front of me. >> Yes. And it says at the top from the budget uh committee meeting. >> That's a Q budget questions three. >> Sorry, my computer's slow. Yeah, it didn't make it

091in there for some reason. Probably because it was so late today. >> Well, I don't have >> That's a set. We have >> we have three because we had the first set and then we had a followup. Is it up there? Oh, great. Thank you. Ben, I don't if you can actually just kind of go through the questions. I can see from here, but not very well. >> We attempted based on the the the very uh lively discussion we had at the budget committee, we just attempted to sort of put those questions in this format just so everyone can have a opportunity. I think as Sophie's already mentioned, a lot of it is dealing with Central Middle School. Uh for me, I'm a visual learner, so I I always go to the graphs. And I

092think that graphs speak to uh uh a lot of the narrative. Uh so if you look at uh this one right here, that speaks to the average class size as we sit sit today. Uh so we just took the the ones in blue are prek through grade 5. You can see it starts at prek of 15 going to uh 19 to grade 5. And then the the multicolored ones are the three middle schools both in grade 6, 7 and 8. And we just attempted to keep each middle school the same color. I think the focus there is you see Central Middle School, grade six is the average class size is the 12. And you can see the balance where the rest of the uh middle schools are 17, 14, uh 15. and particularly central middle

093schools 15 16 in the out years. I I think one of the major decisions that we had is if this was just the one the one data point you would say that's just that's just an outlier. you you wouldn't make uh adjustments. But if you go to the next chart, thanks Mike. You see the incoming grade five to grade six, you see that the 12 continues. And so that's when you start looking at the uh the the class size at Central is lower than preK uh at 15. And again, if it was just one year, you would say that's that'll that'll make it up. And then we also attempted to I think if you go just a little bit further down we tried to do the math. So again on that chart we did not

094upgrade pre uh the the blue chart. So we didn't change those. I don't think it was really germanine to the to the discussion point but we tried to do the math. If you look at the average class size at Eastern and Western it's 15 uh right now. Uh, in order for Central Middle School to reach that same average, the math suggests that you need to have 32 students in grade six and 32 additional students in grade 7. So, you would need 64 students uh to come into Central Middle School to order to to bring it up to the same average that the other two middle schools were. and all the other prior u narratives we talked about the catchment zone, the tuition payments and all the other stuff that the the budget committee brought up

095I I think just suggest that's the that's the math [clears throat] you need to get to to to equal if it's important to equal to that number. That's so that's just the that's just the math. I'm just the math guy. I'll stop there. >> Go ahead and go to the next question, Mike. So on question eight, this is just talking about is cross teaming new to middle schools. Again, just reiterating because the first time that we had the discussion, it was so new for everybody. Um, and I know you've been getting a lot of questions. So, um, we do have cross teaming at all three of our middle schools. And if you scroll all the way to the end of this document or page six to eight, you actually can see the schedules there. Um,

096>> and handed to you. >> [laughter] >> So, it's the back um three pages where you can actually see the schedules and these were put together by each principal and it lets you know the amount of teaming that happens on uh six, seven, and eight. Um so again, that's justformational because at the budget meeting as you ask those questions, it's hard when you don't have something in front of you, right? >> Um to look at. And just lastly, I'll point out my my favorite question is is number nine is the uh special education is a constant discussion point. Uh so what we we did here was we took the same districts that we've we've historically compared ourselves to. It's the same districts that were in the the slide the superintendent slide on uh the performance.

097We took those same districts. Uh the state of Connecticut has the uh a site called EDS site. You can pull up a lot of data. We you for fiscal year 23 24. So it is it's one year old data. But the important thing here is they have standardized all of this information. Every single uh board of education has to report out in a very rigid structured way the reporting structure. Uh Patrick and his team have the pleasure of making sure the our general ledger maps to the how the state wants it mapped. So these numbers are really apples to apples uh from district. The the key for for from the takeaway here is if you go to that very bottom the state average. So they take all the numbers there those those are big numbers

098those are you know in the be the billions but it shows you that of all the state of all the the state average 11.9 uh versus the 3.6 it's 26% of the spend. So that's the state average that at board of educ boards of education across the state the average is 26% of their budgets is allocated towards special education. So, we do that. Then you just go a little granular to those districts. You you can see the numbers ranging from uh and we try to just do the the color chart. The green is low and the red is high. And you can see that Greenwich is 27. So, we're right in the middle. If you when you look at the rank, we're four out of eight. So, we're dead smack in the middle from our

099districts, but also incredibly close to the state average. But just just a a data point when we take a look at because special education has historically it's been a lot of a lot of points the board raised in their Q&A and it's it's a significant uh cost driver. >> And I might just add um the districts that you're looking at are the same districts that we use when we benchmark for our student achievement and the decision was made that these are the districts we compete with. And so instead of just randomly pulling, you know, districts across the state, we're very consistent so that we're looking at like um communities. >> Rich, >> next question. >> Um 10 is just really talking about when do teachers have time to plan? Um we talked about it yesterday,

100but again just memorializes, puts it in writing. We have extended Wednesdays. They have team time on their schedule. Um, all three middle schools will have a different will have new schedule. They're working as a team of middle school principles right now um to be more consistent across all three schools. Um, they have non-instructional planning time. Um and now that we know how how much teaming actually takes place. I think once the new schedule is in place, we can have a better discussion about how do we for cross team u make sure that the teachers have time because I don't think even for me I didn't realize how much we had at Eastern for instance um until I saw the schedule actually put together. Um so number 11 this was a big discussion and oh >>

101thank you for joining us >> push to talk please >> sorry if you um if you teach both grades sixth and seventh how will you be able to go to those teameing meetings? Will you only be able to go to one and not the other? And how many is it every Wednesday that you meet for teaming or is it once a month? >> So, it's on their schedules and and right now the way it looks is different than it will look next year. So, and actually Veronica had asked for the schedules but um because next year all three are going to be similar and teameing is actually on their schedule for a time. what we have been talking about for central is probably the easier model because the same teachers teach the sixth and the

102seventh grade group where actually if you look at western and eastern if you look at those schedules it's very random. Um the area where they have the hardest time is obviously math because we have so many different advanced levels so they all cross team on math. Um the next one 11 is it's a big topic and I think we talked about it quite a bit yesterday whether you call it redistricting micro um districtricing to balance schools and is that like is that possible certainly it's possible but I think um between now and September um I would not recommend that it is a huge undertaking and generally you spend at least a year um there's a lot of work that has to take place you hire the demographers to come in and do that and I

103just referenced U Fairfield Public Schools because they just went through this process about two years ago or over the last two years and their document alone is 186 pages. it has different options because they really have to drill down and look at okay what are all the addresses where are kids where would you draw the lines and then I just gave you a couple of key questions and this is just because I've been in growing districts where we had to do this um and things like are fifth grade students going to be grandfathered so they don't actually count when they go into middle school most districts if they're going to redistrict they think about things like that because the kids have been together for so long it could be pretty traumatic for a student um

104if they have sibling at a middle school, are you grandfathering in that family for their other siblings? Because if you have a seventh grader and next year you're going to have a sixth grader, are you going to have them at two different middle schools? Probably not. Um and there are just a lot of key questions like that that you have to analyze as a board, decide what you would want to do. And again, you don't, and I think if you scroll down, Mike, it actually talks about you don't do it um for uh cost savings. we would be looking at because what we were talking about is how do you balance schools? it could cost more and you have to go into that eyes wide open because if you get a higher population for instance

105of high needs who ended up at central then we may need more e teachers we may need more special ed you don't know how that's going to play out if those the districts that are looking to say close a school certainly there's cost savings there but that's not what we're talking about um and just as a reminder we do have a capacity study that is um taking place right now by the firm that does most of this type of work actually in our region and across the state. But we'll have that I believe in February. Ben, is that when we think? Um, so go ahead and scroll down unless anyone has questions on that particular topic. So at the bottom of that one, it also one of the questions that came up yesterday, you'll hear,

106sorry, go up slightly, Mike. Um some of the people will say Eastern is so overcrowded and I think it's just really looking at it from what the building is built for. So central current building is built for 734, Eastern is 904, Western is 696 and this these numbers come directly from the master plan uh when we did all that work in 2018. Um Eastern was at 900 students at one time. Um so they were definitely full. I think probably back around 2019 2020 but but it just like other areas of the district enrollment has fallen. Um and the new central middle school is being built for 550 but can hold up to that 660. So it was built that way for flexibility. So not quite as big. Um Eastern does have a small cafeteria. So

107and even on their brand new schedule you'll see when they get ready to share that with us um that they'll have an extra lunch rotation. they have to just because they can't get as many kids in the cafeteria. So, that was just again answering a question yesterday about are we overcrowded or not? Um 12. This has to do with magnet theme. Um could we look at a magnet theme and would that help? Again, this is something that takes time. Um to do that between now and September would not be recommended. Um you have to spend a lot of time on, you know, what is your magnet theme? Um and then once you actually have a a theme and you make you have to train staff, you have to purchase resources, materials depending on the theme.

108If it's something like international balaria, which has been brought up and was brought up in our meeting yesterday, um you actually want to um first of all get staff trained. They have to be starting at a level one. And then you would want to you have to kick off the authorization process uh for middle years. So there's just a lot to do. It doesn't mean we can't do it. Um, and would that entice people? It may. It's just between now and September. That would be a challenge. Um, and since I've been here, at least over the last seven years, there's been casual conversation about magnet at Central, but we've never had it on a board agenda or a serious conversation. No, I just had a comment which is I feel like this often happens that

109um our budget conversations lead us to have policy discussions which are really great but actually don't save us any money. So, you know, I think like being mindful of that this is a conversation about budget. Like I'm glad that we explored all of these ideas, but none of them seem to come up with a solution for how we um you know, don't increase the budget if but you know, basically if if we're going to add back any staff, we're increasing the budget. um and there's no sort of rationale for right moving staff over from other schools and things like that. But I hope that we can continue these other conversations, these policy questions because I think they're really interesting ones of like would we like to have a magnet middle school? Do we want to

110do IB? Um but I yeah, they don't they don't they don't solve the budget issue. That's the problem. >> So you recall so um I mentioned these three buckets at the beginning here. So, um, since we're talking about Central Middle School, most most of the questions are about Central Middle School, it only makes sense thematically that we stay with the CMS bucket. So, um, let's talk about any other questions or thoughts or comments people have, particularly towards the CMS aspect of the budget. Um, Miss Hurst's hand has been politely up over there for a while, and then we'll go to, um, the the other character. >> Sorry. Um, I I had a question. I was going back when we were talking about the average class size. um you know this year and next year in

111comparison to you know for central comparison to Eastern and Western. Um as an aside we did have a middle school with a magnet. Western had AVID as a magnet uh for many years. Now AVID's been brought out to other schools and then it also um took in a significantly um larger number of students with needs. Um and so that's what I was going to say when we're looking at the class size numbers. you know, is it still skewed that Western um has more of a population with need um than it would at Central because, you know, obviously one one ch the number of child obviously looking at the number of butts and seats, but that doesn't actually equate to really the needs of those students. So, you know, 12 students could really be at one

112school could not doesn't always equate to 12 at another. So that's sort of what I was just wanting to ask what the make if we know what the makeup of those classes might be. And that was a good question and we did talk about that yesterday and it really kind of relates to that question too on the same document and that was really how many tuition students um are at each school and tuition as a reminder most of those tend to be uh teachers children um especially if they teach in that building um and that helps them be able to still participate in clubs and other things for us. Um then we have um out of um our out of the catchment areas and you can see those when you look at Western right now

113they have nine out of catchment. Um and it it really when we had our magnet actually operating. Um we did have more students going from Eastern to Western because they were known for their outstanding special education program. Um, so it did put a little bit of pressure on Western where they were getting full as well as they had um more needs and they felt like they could not and remember this was coming out of COVID as well. Um, and so they felt like we needed to pause the magnet. So we've paused it the last couple of years. Um, however, if they have a sibling there, those students could still go, which was we thought the right thing to do. So, but it did make a very big difference at Western. Um, and again, because of

114what it was known for. So, a magnet theme could make a difference if it was something it was really attractive for people. >> I mean, if you look at the numbers, if you're just talking about out of catchment, we have there's 21 students from Central that are attending um, you know, attending Eastern and Western out of catchment. you know, it's not my place to to know why that that may be, but you know, it it begs the question as to what the makeup of the students of those classes are, you know, class sizes are cuz like again, 12 students in one school doesn't always equate to 12 in in the other one. Um, so before we start looking to reduce numbers, I mean, I know we're not talking about any of the other schools at

115this point other other than central based on uh what chair Anthony was saying. So, you know, that was my biggest question was just making sure that we're looking up the makeup of those the sixth grade, 7th grade, and eighth grade at each of the three schools to ensure that, you know, there's enough coverage if there's, you know, at those schools with those reductions. >> Yeah. And just as a reminder, EL, special education, all that's calculated differently. That's um not looked at just within that um standard class, the core classes. >> Right. That's why >> the formula for those, >> right? That's what I was just trying to get at is because obviously, you know, some of those core classes are changed based on, you know, who's in a what students are in them. That's all.

116>> See what other questions. Um, Miss Krauss. >> Um, thanks. You know, as I've been looking into this, I think some of the challenge that we're facing with Central Middle School is due to the projected enrollment being below what would be an efficient scale given the number of uh different levels of courses, the number of electives that are offered across our schools. Um, you know, a potentially budget neutral because I do think it's really important we stay within BET guidelines. the potential budget uh neutral option that we we discussed at the budget committee yesterday was if is open enrollment um and we heard a lot of demand from the community um at our last meeting um you know teachers move with students as we've seen the class sizes are quite small as they are it

117wouldn't be fiscally responsible to put two full teams with such a small population if enough students moved I think right now if I'm remembering this correctly we've got two teams per grade at Western a team and a half at Central is what we're talking about doing and then I think there's more than two teams maybe two and a half over at Eastern. So if a sufficient number of students came over that half team per grade could potentially move over as well. It would not impact the budget. Um and so I think it's something that uh you know we talked to the superintendent. I know I know you you don't feel it you you think it's unlikely to be sufficient uh to to hit that number and and it it very very well may not. But

118at the same time, I think you've also said it's not that much effort. Doesn't really cost anything. We're set up for magnet anyway. It doesn't feel like there's a lot of downside to give it a shot >> to to what >> to to to see if Yeah. to to put it out there along with our other magnet signups, who's in who's not zoned for central, who'd be interested in attending if if we're able to, and and let's see what the numbers look like and and then we can make a more informed decision. I think we're all sort of speculating, but we we don't really have the facts. Um and and at the budget meeting we talked yesterday about open enrollment. It's a just an open enrollment concept is very simple to do. Um it's just

119a matter of who wants to go and then you always have to set it up as though it could be a lottery because you what if a lot of students wanted to go? You don't want to be overs subscribed. But because we do it for prek and we do it for our magnets already where you know we have a lot of experience. So, um, and just keep in mind even on this, um, the document we were just looking at on that question one, staffing changes every year. And that's why I gave you kind of what the projection is for elementary. And you can see, you know, we have 10 sections that could be added and you're only talking about a couple of students away and they're going to be at the guidelines. There are eight

120that look like they may go down, but if that doesn't happen, you know, sometimes we're adding teachers in September. Middle school and high school are no different. Um I'm having discussions right now in a few key areas where we're we're we're really close where we may have to add say a point 2 somewhere, you know, just based on um more students qualifying in special ed for instance or students needing more of a a certain type of class at high school and they need to make schedule adjustments and we don't have a class available because they're full. So, >> I just was going to follow up on Karen's comments about the open enrollment. I mean, I I like that idea. Um, I do want to for the members of the public who are listening. I think

121one of the things we also discussed is that we didn't feel like we would it would be financially prudent to offer busing with that. So I think you know if we did offer open enrollment you know unfortunately the burden would be on the families who decide to do that that they would need to find transportation for their child to get to school which is something obviously everyone knows normally you're entitled to transportation um to school depending on you know the distance you live from school. But you know as we alluded to earlier transportation is an incredible cost for us. So, we can't sort of entertain anything that might increase that cost further or frankly make the logistics more complicated, which is one of my other biggest concerns. Paul, >> I have uh two questions. Number

122one, uh, Ben, when you spoke earlier about 34 kids in the sixth grade and 34 kids in the seventh grade potentially going to Southern, was that to was that us getting to an average um across the schools or was that the number of kids we needed to to to um to get to the second team and I think you were talking about average, right? >> Average. >> Okay. And so I think the subject is more about more about what do we need for the second team? So right where you were and do you know that answer can >> I think Dr. Jones, hadn't you said it was 170? Was that the threshold? >> What we were calculating, do you remember the exact number? It's right around 170. You'd like to be 180 185, but 170

123is reasonable where you're, you know, you're large enough that you could can feel okay about that. >> And so, how many more kids do we need in the sixth grade, the seventh grade, and the eighth grade to get to the best teaming mom? 40 in each grade. >> The current projections are what? 131 132 kids for sixth and seventh next year. So you're probably about at CMS you're probably you're you're probably 40 short per grade. >> Well, I think that's what Ben was saying is that for central you would need 32 sixth graders, 32 seventh graders. >> I want the most >> additional. >> Yeah. >> A second question I had I didn't understand it and I should have asked in our budget meeting but when we spoke about open enrollment uh I think um

124Dr. Jones, you had mentioned that maybe I got it wrong. So, um that if we did open enrollment, we have to do it for everyone. Um and I don't could we just do open enrollment to Central from Eastern and not offer that to Western? >> That would be a question really for the attorney. Um I think we would want to ask um the question I felt yesterday was more about what if you had too many EL students for instance and we don't have enough teachers there. Um we have to be able to service those students um you know regardless of what school they're in and if we're having open enrollment it is open to all. whether or not you could just do one school. Um it it it is likely, but I would want an

125attorney opinion to make sure they're not looking at that like it's discrimination and especially because Western is a title one school. Um so I would want to be very thoughtful about that. >> Go ahead. >> Um yeah, just a little bit of a clarification um for the public who wasn't in the meeting. Oh, um the the the reason that that we were talking about that in the in the committee um was recognizing, you know, that Western Middle School is also one of the priority schools. They're currently at about 170 per grade and they have the two full teams. We don't want to solve the Central Middle School problem by exporting the problem to Western. That was the reason we were asking if you could move if you were trying to if we could be more

126uh targeted in where we move students because we were the the ultimate goal was to get to an efficient scale at each of the three schools. >> Wendy, >> um so I like the idea of the open enrollment um and the lotteryies. Um, just to your point, Sophie, um, I we had I had my own children went to ISD and when they went, you you you you couldn't go to Eastern. You had to stay. I tried. I have my kids go to Eastern. They said no. Um, he was at the time, um, he was the only one from ISD going to Central. So, that was that was tough. [laughter] Um, but it ended up being okay. He lives. Um, I didn't even try it with my second one. And we ended up loving Central. I

127mean, I'm so happy that they were there. Um, and they they were happy to go back to be with their friends from Costco. Um, I don't know why I just went into all that, but um, and also lottery. We the parents should know that if you're going to lottery into another school, you're responsible for driving your child there. like we we we can't be responsible for the transportation to your point. Um and that was always part of the deal. Um what else? And then the out of catchment areas. Maybe we just have to have people stay within their their school district. Like you can't just go to another I mean it's to the same point that I had about the lottery. Um you just have to stay you in your district unless there's some real

128Yeah. a bullying issue or something. Um one more thing and then I'm going to stop. Um Parkway giving them the option those children so that they're not split. I think giving them a priority would be um really nice if we could offer them if we did the open enrollment offer it to them first. Bob. >> Yeah. And I I had brought this up at yesterday's meeting, but I just wanted to bring it to the to the entire board and to everyone watching. Um I know that the math makes sense to to keep the four FTEEs uh at at Central Middle School. Um I'm sorry to to reduce the four fts at Central Middle School to make it equitable to class sizes at Eastern, etc. Uh but there's other factors I feel like with the new

129building construction, the new automation uh of schedules, scheduling of the half team between sixth and seventh grade, all these things have been discussed, it it might be very uh chaotic beginning to the school year. Uh so my my thought is the current budget seems to come in at 3.13%. If we that kind of leaves about $230,000 of wiggle room um to keep it still under 3.25 25. Um, if the average teacher salary is around $18 to $130,000, I I I posit that perhaps we could put two FTEEs in at Central Middle School and not take anything out of the budget. I know that's not what anybody wants to hear right now, but it's just a thought that we could we could and those would of course it's not our purview to say where they would

130go, but I think math and language arts, but it's like they would they would they would be there for uh the faculty at Central Middle School to be able to u plug in where they might need to do that. Um that's just an idea that maybe we could we could discuss it. >> So, I'll kind of give an answer similar to what I did yesterday. Um, we we can do whatever the board wants to do. I mean, we'll make it work. I think though with something like adding back in, I do think we need to reduce somewhere else. And if you just again look at those elementary numbers, if we end up needing four teachers or five teachers, it's a half a million dollars like that. And I also um Patrick, I don't know if

131you could send that one slide to Mike and actually bring it up because I think it's a lot of people in the community definitely don't understand that 2.5 million. So this budget while we are are just barely under guidelines. That is because um right now at least from what we're hearing, we have grace from those who have been elected that they support our budget. Um, this budget if we didn't have that 2.5 million would be a 4.4%. 4.3 or 4.4 >> 43. And you know, we walked GOA through this. We walked GA through it. So, if you're adding back in, you're I feel like it's making a little more challenge. We're really saying we're above 4.3. Um, and again, it's there's been a lot of support for this budget and and if we need to

132reduce another 200 somewhere else, we'll figure it out. >> So, Dr. Jones, you probably just want to clarify what you mean by the 2.5 million. >> I don't know. Are you are you trying to get the slide to Mike and then we're going to bring it up and the the the finance team will walk us through it. >> Yep. I just sent it to Mike. So, probably in a few seconds. >> While that's going while that's going up, just to further deflate expectations here because I don't want to get anybody too excited. We haven't um we haven't heard from any fifth grade families voicing an interest in switching middle schools, >> right? >> Not at this time. But, you know, I'm I don't know how many people in the entire community are dialed in and

133watching [laughter] our meetings. >> Oh, just while we wait for the slide, I'll give you some filler, but thank you, Dr. Jones. That was on my mind as well. We do have some some people split with where where is this number actually? And um um what we've done effectively is made everyone happy right where we're at. Um so uh thank you for recognizing that. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. So um this is a chart kind of like lay out um the 3.13% that we are talking about for the budget year two years versus the other 4.4% that Tony just mentioned. So if you look at uh the top part of the chart, so when we compare the year to years, the starting point is where it is the starting point. The um the way that

134kind of like in the past when we look at our budget year to year is to kind of like the starting point is our current year original budget. The current year original budget is the 198 million at the top left corner of the chart. And then uh we all knew that there is a 2.5 million lonapsing account that is the money that we reserved for the bus transportation use in the current school years. And therefore this current school years we are expecting we are going to spend the $200 million. The $200 million is the starting point that we use to calculate the 3.13% that is in in front of us on the budget book on the uh superintendent budget presentations. So when you look at the 2.5 million basically this is kind of like a

135gift from the bet recognizing that we are going to spend this on the bus this year that's kind of like take it into consideration as our starting point that kind of like we look at a 3.13% year-to-year growth otherwise if you are if we are looking at a traditional way of the budget year-to-year growth it will be the 4.43% 43% on the chart. >> Just to make make sure make sure let me reiterate that and make sure I I understand it. So this time last year um we ended up approving a budget of 198 million in change. If you take that number um and compare it to the proposed budget right now before us that would be a 4.4% increase. What happened over the course of the year is because of increased transportation costs and

136the renegotiation of our transportation uh contract, we ended up uh spending an additional 2.5 million that we realized from savings. So the actual money spent last year is closer to 200. Um when you look at that percentage compared to the proposed budget, it's that 3.1. >> Correct? Okay. So, um, so I I feel like we might be transitioning away from CMS, but go ahead, Bob. I hope >> I just wanted to say one last thing. I I do I don't know. I just feel like if we if we feel like we need it and as Dr. Dr. Jones said if we feel like we we need it for Central Middle School or I know we haven't gotten to the other schools or the other this is the only bucket we're talking about but if we

137feel like we we need it I feel like what we could do is ask for it and that's why we have a bet as well. The BOE could ask for this. The BET could say that's ridiculous. we we're not going to do it and then we have to that's then when we we come back to it and I also want to iterate you guys have done an amazing job with the budget as well and I'm not I feel like I'm pulling strings and I apologize uh because you guys have done an amazing job trying to figure out all of this stuff and coming in with the numbers you did I really appreciate that >> I saw Veronica first no I'm the chair I say Veronica thank you this is a little That's go with the

138gavvel. This is a little bit um long and sometimes I've explained it a couple times and I hope that it it like it makes sense. My concern and something that I feel like I still don't understand is that as the um four positions are eliminated at central, how does it impact the actual scheduling? Um my my fear is that if we look just at student numbers and faculty and sort of match those it on such a small scale as central is that for example if um there's not enough wiggle room in the schedule with the staff and then what the student needs are for example you could use English that there's not going to be enough for the students enough classes enough staff for the students to teach the classes that are needed. I'm sorry,

139I told you guys this was going to be a little long-winded. And that's really my my concern that with such small numbers at Central that eliminating more staff is going to make the schedule almost too tight and they maybe they they'd be able to figure it out. But if that if one person, you know, stepped out of line and and not that anyone would do anything wrong, but the sick day, there's an assembly which could throw the whole schedule off or things like that that that there wouldn't even be coverage for for other classes and things like that. Does that was a long question. Sorry. No, I think what's different this year is I came right out of the gate and and and we're trying to be very clear about what the numbers are. This

140happens every single year across the entire school district. Some years we add an elementary. Some years it's down. Middle school. Sometimes we cut FTE. A teacher leaves. We just don't replace the retirement if it's not needed. And it may be in June and it may be in July. I mean, we have those discussions ongoing right now. I have teachers retiring that we didn't know were going to retire in January and February. So, Dr. Bud and I are already saying, do we put a permanent placement in there, especially if we're going to end up reducing positions depending on what's going on. But it's just we're having the discussion and and what happens is if you get more students that all of a sudden show up in June, July and people buy houses and move in. You

141add the staff and and since I've been here, the only time we have ever laid anybody off was last spring with like media assistance when that was that was tough. But teaching positions we have we're such a large district that we have enough um to be able to shift. And again, we already know people across the district that um are are retiring. We have people that, you know, will have a baby and they decide not to come back. Um so I don't see that as an issue. Um when class sizes are so small, I mean, when they're sitting at 12, if we were sitting at, you know, 14 and 15 and we were talking about this, trying to get to say 21 or then yeah, that would make it tighter, but 12's a really low

142number. And I still say, and I think Ben said it tonight, when we think we have little, you know, three and four year olds in prek and our number is 15. Um, and they will hit 16 or 17 by the end of the year. >> Last word on on CMS. >> I This is maybe not on CMS, it's across the board, but you mentioned that >> Yeah. You mentioned that, you know, throughout the year something hap or no the the uh families move in, people buy houses, things go up. We're setting this budget now. Um and the reality is going to hit um uh you know full year from now. Um there's always um moving things around, but there's always supplemental uh do you ever use that lever, the supplemental interm uh if >> in

143interm appropriation? Thank you. um you know if more kids moved in and things like that, where does that come in? >> We did have a question in one of these packets that has the interims, I think. >> Um and it actually lists the interims over the last couple of years that the finance team put together. It's usually has to do with things like um more students qualifying special education. It could be transportation. Um and Ben, do you have the list there? You might just share what some of those are. So question 30, page 20, round one. [laughter] >> So we we just we showed the the interims and you can see it's probably just quickly it's like a 50/50 between capital and operating. But the question I think is really on operating. So you can

144see uh in 2024 was the uh based on the the past two years was the question. 2024 is when we had special education as an operating uh interim because of the pressures of of of special education. Just how the interim would work is generally you have to wait until well past the midpoint uh just so you when you start running the the forecast and you start looking at your numbers going because the BT is going to say well you're going to have surpluses elsewhere. Do we have to do budget transfers versus adding to your budget? That's you you certainly can do that once you recognize that you you do not have the money to by June 30th to pay for the decision. >> Um >> yeah, I just wanted to go back and address um

145Bob's comment about going back to the BET and asking for more. Um you know, just look just speaking for myself, I'm not comfortable doing that. I think the BET's frankly been generous including the 2 and a.5 million that I don't think they had to do. Um and I think you know especially in a year with slightly declining enrollment I think we knew uh you know given the well above average above inflation rate increase in the GA contract the increase in the transportation and the increase in special ed this was going to be a bit challenging. Um but I just have trouble when we do the math and say one team covers 120 students and we're basically predicting to have about 10 more than that. uh you know and if you do the math it kind

146of works out to one and a half I mean sorry 1.1 teams. I just I have trouble putting two full teams against something that math would imply 1.1. Um I think the super I I understand the logistics get harder and we have to make sure the scheduling's right. Um but I given other places that need money and other class sizes in other areas as as the superintendent mentioned I can't go back and ask for more money for that. Okay. >> So, um let's move on off of the CMS topic to um other aspects of the of the budget. Um the the one other um that we haven't had a lot of questions about and I think it's important we talk about it publicly um is the whole idea of start time and the changes we

147used um the the changes that we um implemented last spring. um that um right now all those changes are maintained in the in the current operating budget, right? >> Yes. Where we are as of today. >> Mhm. Okay. So, any questions or thoughts or comments on on that? Go ahead, Sophie. >> Yeah. Um you know, I think I I think the high school start time seems to be going pretty well. I think the feedback that we've been getting on that is is overall pretty good. Um, I'm really interested to look and I hope that we can sort of look at the data that we get at the end of the year and sort of see if there was any impact sort of educational attainment. We could look at whatever AP scores or whatever kind of

148data we can pull. I I remember we talked about that and um and I think we should follow up on that. Uh but most of the impact has seems to have been positive. I wish that we could do something about the elementary school times and I did raise it um with Dr. Jones in terms of I think it is hard having some of our elementary schools start so late but it really would be very expensive to make that change. So, I feel like we probably should ride it out for another year and really focus on a bunch of things to do with transportation like um securing a permanent place to park our buses that would give us more flexibility in negotiating our bus contracts. Hopefully, you know, and I'm really thinking now like 5 10

149year kind of plan for transportation at this point. So, it is nothing to do with this year's operating budget, but I think it's important to flag it of like it's such a driver of our budget right now, and it's not one that I feel good about. So, [laughter] um you know, I would love to solve for that, but I don't feel like we have any flexibility in the budget to start changing the start times. And I also feel frankly like that I don't know that that would be a favor to families because it's always so challenging. just speaking for myself like you know you go through these adjustments and you kind of it takes half the school year to figure out how you're going to do it and then if people turn around next year

150and we're like and guess what and now we're going back you know be like well I just figured out my transportation and my child care and my work schedule and now you're going to change it. So you know my feeling is we leave it the way that it is because we don't have money to change it and any change that we make I think would make it more expensive. That seems to be Dr. Jones and Ben's consensus on that question because I did raise it with them. Um, and I also don't know that it would it would benefit our families at this point, but I certainly think we should think about it. And for the new bed board members who weren't here and maybe didn't tune in to every single board meeting before you caught

151on, you know, Michael Joseph and I were very um opposed to changing the high school start time, but you know, I'm happy that even though we we really were forced to do it to meet um the budget requirements, I think it's been okay for the high school. >> Paul, >> I agree with you. I mean, we we we don't have the money to do it, right? But what I don't want to lose track of, and I hope we keep it in mind, is that there was a lot of people that took a lot of time and a lot of uh science and energy and debate and public input and uh for many years that um that pioneered this and um Greenwich was leading in in the science of this. I know a lot of people

152say that, well, maybe 8:00 is the perfect time, but when I look at um, you know, read the read the material on this, um, 8 8:30 was it. I just don't I recognize we don't have the money to do it. And so, that's a hard stop, but as we move forward, I still want to be thoughtful of those people who because quite frankly, I wasn't um on board with that 10 years ago when they did it. But I got talked into it with the science and with the community support and all the all of the due diligence that went into it. It's a shame that we had to change it um without uh the um public input and um the the debating but such are the nature of finance. >> Karen, go ahead. I see

153your hand. Um, I was going to say, you know, I I I know we were sort of our hand was um generally forced last year. Um, it was the, you know, the only actual efficiency we could find was revising the bus schedules and going back. Um, and, you know, we didn't, it's it's fascinating having sat in um, with all of the students and their, you know, and having that discussion, they actually like the change um, at the high school. So, you know, and we certainly haven't been getting any, you know, complaints other than the complaint just the busing issues that we had at the start of the year. So, I think, you know, remains to be seen. We should probably not consider changing that and focus on, you know, what's actually happening in the schools

154at this point. Um, much like Sophie, I mean, I certainly would prefer the the elementaryaries not be starting so late. Um but I but I know we have um a lot a lot of uh different issues uh ahead of us for this year and discussions budget-wise, but um yeah, I mean I nobody wanted to change it back. And unfortunately when we made that initial change to change our school start times uh initially a couple years ago, there was a promise from other districts that they would be following us and none have. Um there was one or two that followed and and uh made later school start times for the high school and the other and ended up again having to reverse back revert back because they couldn't afford the busing. Um I think I mentioned

155this last year the state was looking to make um a requirement for it for later and districts all around uh Connecticut begged them not to do it because they couldn't afford it with the busing. So, um, this more puts us unfortunately back in line for, you know, other school, you know, the other school districts for, uh, after school competitions and after school, um, you know, sports and what whatnot. So, >> I I I I w I will say that um I mean we've gotten a number of we've gotten less in the last month or so, but we certainly have gotten a fair amount of email traffic and other comments about um everything from near empty buses to a uh complaints about buses getting there to the high school very early and whatnot. So, I wonder

156how much of current lack of email traffic might be due to people um um families finding other plans and other means or and or resignation to this is this what it is at the moment. Um um but I my question all that said the um without I don't know if you can even ballpark it do you do you have any sense been like if we were to go back to um last year's you know it would be more than the two and a half million we saved last year um you have any sense like random ballpark what what kind of money we're talking about budget impact >> 2.9 Go ahead. I just want to reiterate, right, we can't afford it and I I get that, but when we're when we're talking about it, I think

157we need to put more um focus uh and attention on uh the community input, the board at that time. Um I did ask you for the if I could be uh um ghs government. I didn't get that post, so I'm com so I'm more comfortable say saying this now. Um, but I I I don't think polling the kids is is the uh you should be the lead um um key point and and look, I I appreciate the athletics as well, but as Karen said, our our main focus is education. Um I it's a moot point right now. Um but I I did want to make it >> the same positives of it. >> Go ahead. I think just as a reminder because we've you've seen some of the data, but you know, when we were

158talking about this last spring and and Ralph and I really felt like we were going to have more kids that were going to be able to eat breakfast and you know, you can weigh children eating in the morning and being ready to learn and going to sleep. Um what what has happened with food service in the morning is unbelievable. And I these aren't the exact numbers, but you're talking, you know, $3,000 versus 23,000 in the first month of school because kids are eating breakfast. They're getting there in time to sit with their friends. This is coming from the kids. Um they're able to go see a teacher. The teachers are in the classroom 7:30. Um they're available for instruction. But a student who just wants to see their friends, they're saying they they didn't have

159time to do that before because the buses would arrive, some of them arrived at 8:20, 8:25. and such a huge high school, they're running in the building just trying to get to class. Um, so there are some real positives. Um, at the end of the day at student government, um, and I know Karen was there as well when they were talking about, um, just getting out earlier, at the end of the day, they feel like it's released so much pressure and they actually can get their homework done and they are going to bed. And now again student government are you know there's some amazing students and but they're also very thoughtful about the entire student body. So I there are some positives and I think it's just it's looking at everything and I don't think

160there is any right or wrong answer. We ended up here and but it hasn't been disastrous where our kids are falling apart. There's still a lot of good stuff coming out of it. So, in a $27 million budget, I wanted to make sure we um reserve some time to talk about other aspects or other concerns about the budget, other questions or thoughts or people had either from the meeting yesterday or other other concerns. Anything else before um we we come back next week? Want to go? Miss Hirsh, go ahead. Um the one other thing I did want to talk since we were talking you know obviously our largest uh budget line item is staff um and we value each and every member of our staff and I know it's it's an unfortunate aspect when we

161have to start talking about reductions and moving people around but one of the places that we've reduced and reduced and reduced has been at the high school and I see that there were still some discussions about further reductions there and it concerns me uh quite quite honestly because we keep taking and keep taking and keep taking from the high school and those children, you know, the students there are having less opportunities, you know, and and we'll slowly have less opportunities if we keep pulling and pulling and pulling and reducing the staff numbers there. Um, so, you know, I really to me that that is a an exceptionally big concern. Um, you know, I'm trying to figure out in what way we we think that we can reduce the numbers there. Is it just because that,

162you know, you think that, you know, enrollment's going down? you know, I just don't want to reduce our offerings to the students who are counting on some of these things. >> Yeah, I think at the high school it's it's a very similar discussion to what we've been having tonight. Um, again, if you go back and you look in the budget book and you look at all the positions over the last five or six years that have been reduced. It's all over the place because we watch our numbers so carefully. We're not just going to go have this amazing elective and cancel it because we wanted to cut a staff member. And again, when we get to September, and our high school actually enrolls really early, so we kind of know more information there, which helps.

163But if we can't cut the 6.5, I think is the number. Um, then we we won't and we have to figure it out. Um, we used to actually have a small contingency in the budget when I first started where it was for additional staff and then that got cut. So if we have to add staff because it something changes then we have to we just have to go in and figure it out. Uh and that's part of what we do to manage the budget every year. But when you've got a staff that large, again, it's not a whole lot of positions and it's based on I personally go through every single master schedule every year, and I did it again this year, middle school and high school, literally every teacher schedule because what I'm looking

164for are things like, do we have classes that are sitting at 10 at the high school? Is it a scheduling issue because just nothing else worked on that block or is it just because we have additional staff in some core areas or elective areas? You know, do we have uh electives that we really need to go in and reexamine because they've been with us, you know, for 30 years and now it's to students aren't choosing that elective anymore. So, that's just being I I think doing our due diligence um on staffing, but again, it happens every year. It's just this year. I came right out of the gate and we talked about it because I I felt like it was important and usually it tends to happen later in the spring uh once we know

165enrollment, but it's it's just studying the schedules. >> Well, and and you found some small small classes. >> Yes. And I and I've actually been on site at the high school. I spent three full days there. Um, and one of the reasons I did that was there were certain things the board before our new members were on here, you know, we talked about big things last year, throwing out the schedule and bringing in a new one. You know, we talked about getting rid of the house structure. This board talked again pre pre some of you talked about getting rid of SIM skills. uh you know, we've had big conversations and so that's why for me if I see a class of 10, I want to go pop in and see maybe there's a reason for

166it and I'm just looking at a piece of paper that shows 10, maybe that was intentional because those students have high needs. But if I go in and it's just a really small class and I see that multiple times, then I try to figure out why is that happening? Is it because we have too many staff in that core area due to the enrollment reductions? Just also um something that happened just before the new board came on, we we did make a change to freshman English and I think that was an opportunity to make schedules more efficient um without reducing offerings to the students which is I don't know if everyone is familiar with that but instead of having three levels of freshman English we're going to have two because the one of the levels

167was only enrolling 80 kids but then once you have 80 kids doing something it pushed is like it pushes all the other scheduling for those students and makes a lots of other sections and ends up with like a lot of inefficiency. So I think that Dr. Jones has really done an excellent job of looking at scheduling things like that which isn't changing the educational offerings for our students but just being like well why are we having so many sections you know could you make this little tweak in the schedule and then suddenly you have like a more normalsized schedule and you don't need to have so many sections. So I hope that that that's part of it, you know, as well as certainly I think it will be with English. >> And just to um

168clarify that that that change was made for curriculum and other purposes. We didn't make that wasn't a budget decision. It just happened to have budget efficiencies tied to it. >> Other Yeah. Go ahead. >> Just on the same page, just with the FTEES, I just um I I know the budget's been tight. I don't think anybody on this board has to be told that. But I I assume there have to be upswings as well with with students needing certain things at the high school. And I feel like with the FT FT reductions year-over-year, it it makes me wonder is is there will there come a time or is there a time now where perhaps we need to look at adding FTES as opposed to taking away FTES year-over-year? Well, I think that's actually been a

169criticism we've had over the last couple of years because u from from elected officials because what h what's been happening is we've been adding staff all across the district. What's been happening is it's been the core classes where enrollment is down that FTE has shifted to areas like special education where we have grown by several percentage points. So, we have been adding staff, but it's been in different areas. And that's why even with the high school FTE, it doesn't say exactly where those are coming from yet because until kids enroll, till we look at where do we have retirements, where do we have somebody that's not returning, and you have to analyze the entire picture. >> You answered my next question. Thank you. >> Just to translate for for for folks watching, um, FTE's full-time

170equivalent. Um, usually we're talking about a teacher a teaching role in that as opposed to um full headcount of all staff were employed in the district. >> Yeah. >> So full head can has not been reduced to the same um the same rate as FTEES has. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah. Sorry, just one one clarification because when we were talking about the six and a half teachers just to make sure I'm comparing it to the right benchmark. If I look at the the follow-up questions, um, and the GA staffing by school, there are 235.7 teachers. Uh, it's, uh, oh, they're not numbered. It's the four out of four one. So, I guess 235.7 teachers is the amount in the budget. Just order of magnitude in terms to compare what the reduction is versus the total.

171Which question? Sorry. I'm trying to >> Sorry. I'm I'm just trying to put into perspective, you know, I think uh you know, for for folks out there when we talk about 6.5 FTEES, just as just as a gut check when I look at numbers like that, I want to know, hey, is that a big percentage of the current? Is it a small percentage? Is it somewhere in between? And my math was that it was sub 3%, right? It was there over 230 teachers currently. >> I I caught up with the uh >> Yeah. Yeah. The 865.3 is a full-time equivalent districtwide of teachers. You were referring to the high school number. Yeah, that's kept going. Where's that number coming from? >> Oh, sorry. Yes. We were talking about We were talking specifically um Karen Hirsh

172had mentioned specifically the >> me >> Oh, there we go. had specifically talked about the uh the the the potential adjustments to the high school. Yes. >> And so I [snorts] was just trying to put that in perspective. >> Absolutely. You're correct. >> And just one more piece to that, sometimes uh as Dr. Bud and I are working on this, even though it's FTE 1.0, that doesn't mean it's even a full-time teacher. Sometimes we have teachers that are quite happy to work 0 point8 and they they really want to be part-time and we've had to say no. Um but then now we're at a year where okay, that may be beneficial. So sometimes it's pieces across the whole building just said actually as a response to Bob when you were saying you know at some

173point maybe we have to add people and and I think we always are looking at that enrollment data right and it's like is there going to be some you know after co it was like are we going to get this huge baby boom or we don't know and like what's happening with the Greenidge market and I feel like part of my inclination to really adhere to these reductions when it's demanded by the enrollment numbers is because I anticipate someday we could actually have a big jump in enrollment numbers and then we would be saying listen we need a bunch of extra teachers because suddenly we have twice as many kindergarteners right and then those kids are work all the way through the whole system and then we have to accommodate them all the way you

174know and maybe it's you know if you look and and now I'm getting like into historical data but it's kind amazing and I didn't actually grow up in town [laughter] so people who did would know even better that you know the the enrollment in Granch public schools has gone you know has had significant swings over time. So I can imagine certainly there could be a time and I hope there you know I hope that the trend line will be up for Greenwich public schools and then I think obviously at that point we would we would have to add but it's like when we see that it's slightly trending down in these years like it feels like the responsible thing you know to match the enrollment and then we'll match the enrollment if it goes up

175too. So, um, I think that concludes our budget conversation for tonight. >> Hey, Mike. >> Um, yep. Go. >> I do not want to be the one to send an opinion. >> I know it's I realize that's public enemy number one. >> You have you have two votes next week. If you're going to take, please clarify. I was going to go, but go ahead. >> You have the operating budget. You have food service. We uh food service. Usually we don't get a lot of questions on food service and I recognize why Central Middle School had took up a lot of the the air time on that. But you if you have any questions on food service, let us let us know. But >> it's in the >> It is in the back of the budget

176book. >> It's in the back of the budget book. Yeah. It's a separate vote. Yeah. And we are holding the the the fees the same. So there's no increase in the the meal charges. It's just the the budget is a separate vote. >> I apologize though. >> Thank you. Thank you for clarifying. >> We we may we may. Okay. So, um that concludes that is our last order of business. Just before we go, I wanted to uh point out to everybody why while I have them while I have you. Um the old Greenwich uh building committee, the bids came in um and they were rapidly coming um developing a price for that. But it does mean that we're going to need a special meeting. Uh we're targeting u Monday, January 5th. Um because of construction

177timelines and everything else we need to and we have to go before the BET and the RTM and there's a lot of things. So we're looking at Monday, January 5th for a special meeting that would only have that agenda item. Um likely on Zoom like this would likely be a Zoom only meeting. Um, unless there are any objections to that. I didn't think so. Okay. Um, that said, um, are there any motions that anyone would like to um I'm happy to entertain. Anyone would like to make. >> I'd like to make a motion. >> Oh, go ahead, Miss Walsh. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All right. Uh, motion to adjourn by Miss Walls. Uh, seconded by Mr. Cheney. All in favor? Opposed. Meeting adjourned. Thank you, everybody.