October 9, 2025 Board of Education Retreat

001Hi everyone. Good evening. Um, I'd like to call this meeting of the board of education a retreat to order. Please stand for the pledge of >> allegiance to the United States of America to the republic stands nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Right. Good evening everyone. Um, unfortunately Karen couldn't make it tonight, but so she asked me to, uh, run this meeting, and it's nice to, uh, be doing this again. So, um, it feels nice. Um, but hopefully we can, uh, make this efficient, especially because we have so many of our educators here this evening that probably have to go and teach our children tomorrow. So, um, with that, let's go straight into the discussion items, and that is Mr. Bran and Mr. Watson on the capital budget. This is the third

002time you've seen this document. Uh it's scheduled for approval at the business meeting October 23rd. Just a couple items. Uh geothermal. We haven't spent a lot of time talking about the Hamilton Avenue. There will be an agenda item on the business meeting of October 23rd for interim appropriation. That'll be that needs to be outside their normal CIP cycle simply because every month cost us $25,000 for the rental of the chiller. So we don't we don't want to wait until May or June for that. But that'll be in the October meeting. The pool is the biggest change we have in front of you. We have the the placeholder of $30 million for that pool. That was originally uh based off of just a square foot analysis. Uh the the feasibility committee continues to work with that.

003However, that 30 million is is low. Uh the the range that the committee is currently looking at is between 49 and 59 million uh for the for the pool. The issue with that is based on a cash flow analysis, there's no way that you're going to be able to go to contract the fiscal year that we're building for. So, we need A&E money of about 4 million. So, we would ask for the 30 million becomes 4 million and we push the 30 million out to fiscal year 20 uh 2728. So it would drop the request that the board of eds asking for substantially, but it pushes out in year two the the new number likely if you take the high end, it'll be 59US 4, so it'll be 55 million requested for the for the

004pool. That's as as now it's that's not it's not at the uh design phase. It's but the professional estimator did take the current work and looked at and applied the Fairfield County factor, which is important. You can't take a national number. You have to provide uh Fairfield County uh analysis and what the cost is. So that that will be uh likely we and we're on target to present the pool the uh edspecs to the to the board of ed in uh the business meeting in November. Uh but that's TVD on uh >> that's a lot of money for a pool. Are we going to get like a new whole pool pavilion or just the hole in the ground with the water in it? >> You definitely get a hole in the ground with water. That's

005uh you need that for the pool. But it is the the whole thing. The 59 is an is a brand new building, brand new pool, brand new hole, all all of that. But if you put in perspective about it's almost about 70,000 square feet of a facility. So when you look at that from an elementary school perspective, you that that is a it's a close proximity of the of a cost of a building. Although it's it's the pool has limited functionality uh compared to an elementary school, but if you look at it from a square footage standpoint, it's it's not uh out of the realm. I recognize that number is large and we also recognize other pools have been built uh cheaper but based on our professional cost estimate that's where it lands uh right

006now. >> So it's going to be nice >> hopefully >> that is always our always a goal but but again from a from a planning perspective what we would be asking for is we would modify the CIP request in front of you asking for 4 million for A&E. It will go from 31 to 4. >> It will go from the 30 to four >> for 20 for 26 27. >> Correct. >> And then will 27 28 go to 75 >> it'll it'll go to 55 >> on top of the 45. >> It's 45 now. >> Well, that's 45 something else. >> That 45 the 40 next year, right? So it goes 45. >> The 45 you're referring to is a 43 for Riverside. service. >> No, no, no. I'm saying like we're taking 30 out

007of 26 and we're adding it to the leader. That's all it's adding. >> Yeah. I don't know. >> But we're adding a bigger number. >> Oh, sorry. You're adding a bunch. >> Yeah, >> that's why I'm saying that 45 is more like 105, >> right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Do the math. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> But the year we're asking for will be would be 4 million versus the 30 million. >> The vote owns the >> four. >> Yeah. So, you won't get counted. [Music] We we had one just minor adjustment when we looked at uh the program for plumbing and electrical. Uh we can reduce we can reduce 20,000 from that line item uh from an ISD water heater. That's not that is not needed. Uh other than that there's no significant there's

008no other changes that we're proposing. Uh there was conversation last uh last board meeting about playgrounds. whether or not it makes sense to do them a playground every year. But in conversations with parks and wreck, the equipment has changed. It used to be a useful life of 10. They've seen the useful life has increased to 15 20. So it wouldn't be economical to to move to a every year replacement schedule because then you're essentially not depreciating your asset and you'll be replacing it ahead of schedule. Uh but they do look at all the equipment in totality when if there's a need for equipment to be adjusted or replaced. But a total replacement, it wouldn't be fiscally prudent to do it every year simply because the useful life doesn't align. >> I just searched this. You're

009going to hate this and it's not fair, but it's just >> I usually do. >> I just searched up perplexity. What's the most expensive municipal pool ever built? And it said 37.5 million. I mean, it's not obviously right, but just >> just funny. >> We we we all had sticker shock on that number. The pool committee had had a couple more weeks to sit with that. This is the first time you're hearing that number and it is uh slightly out of context because you just don't have everything in front of you. But from a planning perspective, that's that's where we're at. >> So, since this is for discussion only, what we plan to do is we'll make these modifications to the document. were presented to you in the October meeting, but it'll be a revised

010request. Right now on the table is a 4343. It'll be uh 17 million A23 and that's just with the two adjustments to pool and then the the small 20,000 for ISD. Right. >> Anything else on that? >> No. Okay. Let's move to uh curriculum plan review cycle. Mr. Demo, thank you. Thanks, guys. [Music] actually being a bad teacher. Everyone knows you do the handouts and bad talk because no one feels bad. But I'm going to trust you all. the room. >> I decided to prepare some comments tonight to try to keep things moving because we have so much to get to. So, let's start with the curriculum management plan. Good evening, everyone. The curriculum management plan is our commitment to you. A clear, transparent view of our current curriculum efforts and our direction moving forward.

011The visual before you is much like a pilot's dashboard filled with instruments that monitor every part of the journey. While all indicators matter, some require sharper focus, especially those guiding takeoff and landing. Likewise, we must pay close attention to both newly launched initiatives and those approaching full implementation. Over the past few years, we've taken bold steps to renovate and strengthen our KA core curriculum. Think of it as equipping master educators with top tier tools. Our teachers bring expertise, care, and creativity. It's our responsibility to provide the consistent, highquality foundation they need to do their best work. For too long, teachers were expected to be both builders and blacksmiths, designing, sourcing, and refining their own materials while also delivering instruction and analyzing results. We believe educators should focus on what they do best, teaching and responding

012to student learning. Thanks to the tireless work of our academic teams, our K8 curriculum is now more cohesive, aligned, and robust than ever. I'd like to publicly thank them for their extraordinary efforts. As we move forward, the next phase is not about introducing more change, but about giving teachers the time and space to master the materials we've invested in. It's time to shift from implementation to expert execution. Our student achievement data affirms the strength of our curricular decisions. We are on the right path. We must stay the course. Sometimes reactions to change can resemble turbulence during a flight, unsettling, even alarming. But just as a pilot remains focused and trusts the instruments, we must remain true to the plan and trust the process we've built. The path is sound and our destination is clear. At

013the high school level, our curriculum review is more complex, requiring course bycourse analysis. Greenwich High School boasts over 300 courses, each of which demands thoughtful, targeted resource decisions. We're committed to a strategic revitalization at the 912 level. Our team is here tonight and happy to answer any questions you may have and on behalf of the entire K12 academic team, we thank you for trusting us to do this work so our teachers can do theirs. Thank you. Any questions about our curriculum management plan? You've seen this layout before. Uh you have three pages in front of you. The first page is our elementary or preK through 8 curriculum. It's colorcoded. You have a cycle key at the top and then 912 is your second page for reference. And our essential areas are on the third page.

014Yes, Miss Cen. >> So, just maybe give us a bird's eyee view of what an audit of a of our K8 math looks like to you and whoever is doing the auditing of it. >> Yeah. So, an internal audit is when um our program administrator or our coordinator would take the time to review the current resources that are available to teachers. What does that mean? It means we look at all of the uh data that we have on student uh achievement to see whether or not the materials are being responsive and effective. We get feedback from teachers and administrators on how well the resources are received out in the schools. Um it's important for us to do an internal audit first because if we find, and I think that's going to be the case, and

015you'll hear that messaging pretty soon from Mr. read that everything is going well and the data uh supports this, then many times we don't need to then go to a curriculum advisory committee because we're simply going to do a renewal of the materials that we have. And that's a good thing because again, you don't want to constantly change what teachers are trying to internalize and and learn at a level that they can teach extremely well. You'd like to have consistency and stability uh to whatever extent possible. And that's what I'm really excited about with our KA curriculum is that we're moving into that phase of stability now. >> So the feedback, I mean, I I'm a parent. I see big ideas, math. So I mean, I know I like it. I think it's what is

016helping the children learn. Um, but I don't know the feedback that you get. And Mike Reed could, you know, Mike, >> you want to talk a little bit about it? >> We'd love to hear the feedback you're getting. Oh, thank you. Um, so the feedback that I'm getting uh has been uh informal so far. So this year we'll conduct um two audits um at the various levels to give teachers the opportunity where they don't have to do it on their time but during maybe a program day to give us more formal feedback about what they like, what they don't like, what they like to see different, things like that. Um, so, uh, teachers are just happy that they have something that is a roadmap for them to use that's very clear and even more so

017they like that they're in year five of something that's been stable. Whereas Mark alluded to in the past, we just gave them this Connecticut core standards and we said teach them and um, that could have looked very different at each school and in each classroom even in the same school. So, um, right now people are super happy and and I actually have them asking me at this point, are we going to have to get a new curriculum soon? Are we going to have to get a new program soon? They keep asking me that kind of stuff and I say, we're not there yet. We still have two more years of this program. Um, but um, we are going to come up on that pretty soon and we'll have to make a decision uh, whether or

018not we want to continue with the current program or whether we want to explore some other things. But I think as Mr. Demo stated um you saw in the achievement um report that our math had exceptional growth and I'm not sure that we would get into a cycle of trying to change any variable right now as we're refining all the important things that we're doing in math. I mean, I'm going to want at one point for everyone who's in this room to have a chance, but I guess we'll wait for the achievement report on that. Does that make sense? >> I think that makes sense. >> All right, that's more of a victory lap. I mean, if you guys don't have any questions, I mean, I think that whatever you're doing here seems to be

019working because it's coming through in the conclusions of the achievement report. So, who are we to question it, I guess? >> Okay, let's pivot. >> Okay, let's go. Perfect. >> Uh, at the request of one of the board members, uh, because the achievement report is so long and the video, um, I think exceeded 40 minutes and we have over a 100 slides, I was asked to put together an executive summary trying to kind of capture all of the wonderful news. Um, so let me give it a shot. Tonight, I'm proud to present our 2025 achievement report, a celebration of our students remarkable progress and our district's relentless commitment to excellence. This year, Granite students reached new heights. In English language arts, we achieved an all-time high of nearly 80% proficiency in grades 3 through 8

020with half of our students scoring at the highest level. Our early literacy program boasts an 88% proficiency rate and our high school SAT scores are at a 4-year peak. Not too bad. In mathematics, we set a new district record with over 77% proficiency in grades 3 through 8 and a 66% completion rate for algebra by 8th grade. Our math growth ranks fifth in Connecticut and our SAT scores continue to climb. In science, our students surpassed strategic goals with 82% proficiency in grade five, 81% in grade eight, and an impressive 88% in grade 11, ranking us second in the state. What's most inspiring is that Greenwich continues to outperform peer districts, even as we serve a diverse student body with higher percentages of special education, English learners, and students receiving free or reduced lunch. Our growth

021rates in both ELA and math are among the top in Connecticut. Beyond academics, our graduation rate stands at 97%. AP participation is at an all-time high, and our family and student surveys reflect the thriving, supportive school climate. These achievements are a testament to the dedication of our educators, the resilience of our students, and the strength of our community partnerships. Together, we are not just meeting our goals. We are setting new standards for excellence in public education. Thank you for your continued support and commitment to Greenwich's success. But I'm not done. Now I'm going to tell you what I find most impressive. Some statistics. English language arts grade 3 through 8 SBA achievement all-time high of 79.5% proficiency. 50% students scoring at level four. Ranked ninth in Connecticut for SBA achievement and growth. K3 dibbles 88%

022average proficiency building a strong foundation in early literacy. SAT grade 11 English language arts 86% of students scored at or above proficiency, a 4-year high. High need students improved by 8% over last year. Mathematics grades three through eight SBA achievement record high of 77.6% proficiency with 56.4% 4% of students at level four, the highest level. Ranked 10th in Connecticut for achievement and fifth for growth. Algebra by grade 8, 66% of students completed algebra by 8th grade, up 8.1% from last year. And the SAT grade 11, 63.8% proficiency, a 3.2% increase from last year. And let's not forget about science. NGSS achievement grades 5, 8, and 11. Grade five, 82% proficiency, all-time high. Grade 8, 81% proficiency, all-time high. Grade 11, 88 prof 88% proficiency, ranked second in Connecticut. Greenwich outperformed districts with similar or higher

023socioeconomic status despite having higher percentages of students with special needs 16%, English language learners 5.4% and students receiving free reduced lunch 20%. Our growth rate SBA ELA grades four through eight 56.9% ranked ninth in the state. Math growth rate, grades four through eight, 63.1%, ranked fifth in the state. High school success, AP participation, 40 p 47% of 11th and 12th graders enrolled in two or more AP courses, 77% in at least one honors course. Graduation rate, 97% meeting the district's strategic goal. AP exam growth, 35% increase in AP exams taken since 2021. And community and climate family survey, 90% positive response, exceeding the goal by 9%. Student sense of belonging, over 80% of elementary students and 73% of high school students report a positive sense of belonging. Pretty good. >> Sort of a light drop

024moment. Okay. Now, I know you didn't come here to listen to me, and I appreciate you uh extending me the courtesy of going through all of these statistics, but truthfully, it's our over 900 teachers that are listening that deserve all of the thanks and praise, and it's all the fantastic people that are sitting in front of this. I I truly hope and I don't know if we have any reporters here tonight, but I truly hope that our performance is the story of the Greenwich public schools moving forward. >> Good. Uh well said. I mean it's uh yeah, the only thing I was going to say is I like I liked what you called out because I think it's important. We don't call things anymore dur B technically, right? But um I still think it's important

025when you showed where we where we stood that we are ahead of a lot of those districts. >> I think we're making new Kenan very nervous >> right with a very different profile of a district and um so it's it's impressive and and I think it's the consistency right in the curriculum. It's the people that are delivering it and um it's leadership. So, and obviously it's the eight of us, but um yeah. So, um Oh, well, come on, Laura. Um so, um how do you want to I'm happy to ask a few questions, but I do want to hear from everyone as well. So, >> so I guess if you want to try to have some semblance of order, we can either take it by content area or level. Um >> do you guys have

026a preference? >> You have a preference. Maybe you want to talk about ELA first. >> We go on grade. I mean, you go great and cons, right? Is that what you were thinking? >> Well, I was thinking if we if we brought up the ELA the ELA administrators first, they could talk all about ELA. >> Okay. >> All right. Okay. While you're doing that, can you actually just there was one thing in the video 48 minutes um where you mentioned the um there's this deep DPI um being better than an achievement. Um >> Mike Reed has been chomping at the bit to explain that to all of you. So if if you would like he he would like a crack at it. >> Sorry, I do. I was like >> the district performance index. >>

027Okay. So, to try to keep this as simple as possible, we have a lot of metrics across the various grade levels. We have the SBA, we have the SAT, we have the CTAA. For those of you that aren't sure what that is, that's our comprehensive um assessment that we use for kids with impairments and things like that. And so, what the state does is they take all of those metrics because they're on different scales. You can't average them together. So they created a scale where they were able to average them all together so that they could really gauge the performance of the districts in the state. And so they do this in ELA, math and science. And the very interesting thing about it is um with the very affluent districts, you see their achievement is

028high, but then their DPI will be lower because growth is factored into this. What the state is trying to do is they're trying to get us to target every kiddo to make sure that they grow based on where they start. And they know that districts may have a tendency to try to just focus on the kids that are just below proficiency because that's where you can focus your time to get them to be above the bar that we've set for achievement. And so the state is trying to acknowledge slashreward districts that are growing every student. And so when you look at our achievement versus our DPI, you notice our DPI is higher because our growth rate is higher than a lot of these other districts, which means we're growing our students, no matter where they

029start, super super high or low, at a rate that's better than, you know, most of the districts in the state. >> See, I knew it was something I was going to like. Thank you. You're >> welcome. So, we have Bridget and and Kim here for any questions that you have regarding English language arts K through 12. >> Well, what would you attribute your success to if you could pinpoint something? [Music] So, we've been doing a lot of work in ELA over the last five, six years. Um, and I do believe we have put together a comprehensive approach to early literacy where we're seeing year-over-year gains. We're seeing kids rise up with a solid set of skills. Um, if you think about our first class of kids that started with foundations from kindergarten, that's our current

030going uh our current sixth graders. Our fifth grade scores are the highest they've ever been. Um, they were second in the state, right under New Kanan. So, we feel really confident that we are building all of those early literacy skills as we as we as we rise up. Um, I think especially our feeder programs keep are are strong and keep moving, but also we have um really looked at our middle school curriculum as well. Um, our teachers are more cohesive. Um, we're really aligning our our instruction to standards and there's a lot more collaboration amongst our English teachers across the district. So, I think we're seeing a lot of um growth in that area. And also, I think everybody in this room um at the elementary and the middle school level have really made an

031effort to look at the data that's in front of them, help teachers make data informed decisions and then coupled with our early um intervention program through MTSS. We've really in the last three years um four years have rewritten our handbook really looked at our procedures, looked at our um how we are um finding our students that need early intervention and making sure that they're seen by a literacy specialist or a math interventionist or part of our intervention staff for behavior or speech and language. So, early intervention, robust curricular resources, effective teaching, um, and cohesiveness across the district in ELA. Um >> the uh the SBA growth the SBA ELA growth goal for grades four through eight I think was 75%. Is that right? This is from the video. >> Yes. In year two on the

032strategic plan we have um the goal was 75% as written for our strategic plan >> and we were at 56 point or 57%. >> Correct. We were at um 56.9. >> What is uh how do you feel about that? if you and we're looking at slide 40 which is that chart uh across um Connecticut and when we compare ourselves to some of the districts that we compare ourselves to um we are ninth in the state for growth um right under New Kanan at six and at a 59.8% 8% growth. So, we are up there in growth. Um, and I think the metric at the state level is is we're we're in that top tier of growth. We're not at the 75% that we put on our strategic plan, but compared to other districts, I don't

033know that any other district is performing at that 75% growth rate in the in the state. So, we're happy with our growth. It's not at that that measurement, but I think we're doing good things for all of our students. >> So, was it a mistake? Was it an unrealistic goal that was set? >> I think I think the term was stretch goal. Um Um I I I think we've been looking at that for the last two years. The data that we pulled last year was very similar. Um we were in a similar kind of growth ranking compared to our peers. So, we're high in the state ranking for growth, but still not meeting those strategic goals that we set. >> Do you do you see any um when you look at it on a per

034school basis or break down the patterns, do you see things where you'd say, "Ah, actually, you know, I see a a weakness spot here or is it just that it was totally unattainable from the outset? >> Talking about the 75%." >> Yeah, sure. just using that as a benchmark because it's always interesting when someone says here's what I'm going to achieve and then they're off it and then usually that says okay let's dig into what's going on >> and then what the pieces are because it sounds like the first answer was well don't worry about the goal it wasn't really real to begin with um and ninth place is good enough or whatever but uh I'm curious if it has drawn us to look at the different components uh and say oh you know like

035for example one thing that stood out to me was that central seems weaker And so is it something about particular schools or like just curious about what bubbles to the surface when you have a large gap like that? >> I think to start out the conversation I think we had a lot of conversations about the growth goal in ELA in particular four years ago when we were creating the strategic plan and I think to Tony's point we were we were saying how we want 100% of our kids to meet their growth target. um whether or not with all the things that go into that we're going to get there. We may or may not get there, but we are sure trying. And everybody in this room knows the growth rates of their school. They know

036the growth rates of each individual student. And they're working individually with their teachers um to know what kids need how many percentage points to grow. and they're working on interventions within their within their schools to make that happen. So, no, I haven't to your point itemized each school, but I know the people in this room are working really really hard to make sure that every student is getting close as they can to their growth rate. >> Yeah. I mean, I think just as a reminder, it's a decision the board made in putting the strategic plan together and we talked about it a lot. So, you know, we were basically giving the board what they wanted. And part of the discussion was why would we build a strategic plan that says we're going to hit 58%

037when we want to hit the target and the target is 75% by the state. And so, the board wanted that in the plan and we're all comfortable with that because we know we're knocking it out of the park with growth. Um, but everybody in the state, they're tough metrics and I don't think that's a bad thing. I think that's good for us. Um, but again, the growth that we're seeing is top in the state. If we want to change that little chart, we can change that. But then we're actually saying as a school district, uh, we don't really need everybody to hit, you know, their target. That's okay. And that was the discussion that we had about four years ago. >> Yeah. I think the thing I was interested in was I'm just looking at

038some of the data from this. the um Central's tricky because you you have the different components the elementary schools, but you have uh North Street and Parkway are hitting their state growth numbers and then you don't know exactly what the share you can't like build a weighted average because I don't know exactly or you guys could because you have the data but if I'm playing around with it I can't uh because I don't know what the split for Parkway is into central not that I can go figure it out I guess but then I think Costco and JC are lagging and so on a blended basis the CM CMS growth data lag bags significantly at least North Street and Parkway. And so understanding what was driving that was kind of the interesting uh because I

039feel like you could to the point of having these goals, you can bridge a lot of it uh if you I think with just getting central at least on track with um uh with North Street and Parkway. Well, to to that point, Cody, that's why we created the priority school model last year was so that we could identify the schools that were underperforming and identify ways to accelerate their progress. And I think what you'll see is in many cases with our priority schools, their rate of growth has been exceptional. And I I'm I'm happy to have any one of them come up and and talk about their their performance and and their rate of growth. And I think if we maintain the priority school model over the next few years, I think we will close

040what you're what what basically we're calling is a gap between our 11 schools. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to channel Dr. Meranti Anthony and ask about um Lucy Caukins and the science of reading and whether that he always uh says it needs to be expuned from you know our district. I just wondered if we have anything left of it. >> I'm going to channel We do and I'm going to channel the comments that I shared in the spring which is unfortunately and I've read his op-ed uh the research that he cites is antiquated and it's a reflection of the original version of the units which we do not use. And if you look at the end of the article you will see that it even speculates that it's hard to determine whether the new units

041will have an impact until we see achievement results. Well, I have achievement results for you and uh I think that the units are are a value ad. And so again, I think when you look at the research and the criticisms, they are all fair of the original units, but we would have never gone with or adopted the the revised units if we didn't feel that as part of our compendium of resources, it would be an effective instructional tool for our teacher staff. >> When did they come out with the new resources? So over the last several years, so we've been we we started in K2 with reading, then we brought in K2 writing. We're now shifting into the 35 writing, and then we will follow up with 35 reading. So we'll be done by the

042end of next year. >> But is there robust research on it if it's a new product? >> So it's it's not a new product. What they did was they went back and they looked at the areas of deficiencies and bolstered them. So Kim can talk a little bit about some of the things that are included in the new newly revised units that we carefully looked at internally before deciding to to use them. >> So some of the research that went into the new units, it's just like a if you have a math curriculum, right, and they come up with a revised unit. So this was after 10 years of implementing these units, they revised them to make sure that they included um science around knowledge building which making sure that we are reading multiple texts

043about the same topic so that we can have robust discussions about content. We can have robust um vocabulary acquisition. Um, and we know that when kids have more background knowledge, more content knowledge, more vocabulary, they're more likely to have a stronger reading comprehension um, skill. Um, there the K2 units revised looking at how um, how reading in context with phonics patterns are addressed. So um there's a lot um of phonics research that are implemented into the new units. Students are reading decodable texts. Students are um uh are getting practice within those type of texts. Um one of the controversial things that were in the old units and in other um products as well was the idea of three queuing. So checking a picture to be able to read a word that is all um not

044in those units as well. Um a lot of the the pieces of the K2 units are in line and dovetail really nicely with our other compendium resources including our foundations resource which is our phonics um program. Um it dovetales nicely with Hegrity which is our phony awareness um curricular resource. It dubtales nicely with our geodess which are knowledge building decodable texts that align with the scope and sequence of foundations. Um in addition to also our online platform Lexia which kind of ties all of that into um adaptable online resource that kind of puts all of that together. So while if you were just teaching units by themselves without a compendium of resources before you were not hitting phonics cuz it wasn't it didn't include phonics it didn't include FMIC awareness. So a lot of the

045criticism in addition to some of the things that were revised um are are are no are kind of a moot point. So we are making sure that we are hitting all five pillars of of reading um within the compendium of resources that we have. >> Can I can you just I'm going to recount what I took away from that and you tell me where my gap is. >> So there's an original program >> there's a bunch of academic research that comes out and you know about what a disaster it was for kids learning to read. You guys say that's the old program no good anymore. the people that were making money selling this program and told everybody it was such a great program said oops we fixed it trust us now and that was recent

046enough. I think I asked about academic research about that and what I heard back was they improve things but I don't know if there's robust research around that. So the people that got it wrong the first time said we fix things and we said okay cool and we buy that and it's not been evaluated on its own but it just incorporates other academic research that their salesperson or whoever says hey this is here now and it's great is that accurate or is there is this been kind of studied on its own in the way that the original programs were and you could point to some paper and say what is doctor I never say doctor but I'm going to invoke what does Dr. Merante Anthony know about reading instruction? Um uh he must be wrong

047about this. Uh because I can point to this paper here which shows definitively that you know this is this this works so well. Is is it really just that we're just taking their word for it and they've incorporated all the things that they got wrong for so long? >> The answer is no. We did a year-long thorough internal review of the actual materials to make sure that the deficiencies that were cited were actually corrected. So, and again, it's only one component of our reading instruction. So, the areas that they were talking about were deficient. We're not even using the units for that. So, I I think and Kim is much more articulate to explain phonics than I am, but the the biggest knock on it was that there was no phonics component to it. We

048don't use the units for phonics. And here's an interesting thing, Cody, for for you to hear and for everyone to hear. You know, when we met with the state and we applied for our our waiver and and they they issued a list of um resources that we could choose from that that they said were okay. We asked Dr. Jones asked for the research that that showed that they would be Where's the research that says that these programs have produced effective results? Dr. Jones, you want to tell tell the board what statement? >> Yeah. I mean, they they don't have it and they're also not outperforming us now using what we're using, the ones that bought the box that was put forward by the state. And I think that's the whole thing. We feel really good

049about what we're doing and we're seeing the results. >> But I just wanted So, it's not that there's research around the one we're using. It's that we did our own internal one-year review of it because your original comment was >> Mike is wrong because the research shows he's wrong. >> No, what I said was he's using antiquated research. You can't you're trying to make a correlation that what we're using is not effective and is lacking key components of the science of reading. That's not what the article says and that's not what the research reviewed. The research reviewed the original units. We are not using the original I that's that's what I'm trying >> my point would be different which is if you I would not maybe you're more forgiving I would not buy a product

050from someone that sold such a terrible product for so long and so adamantly defended it. I would say you no longer have the credibility and I'm going to move elsewhere. Uh, and I think it's interesting that someone like Mike who I don't know any I read the same things you guys read, but someone like Mike and I'm think there are other people that I've spoken to in the district looks at the stuff that is still coming out from uh that company and the you know the whole uh whatever you want to call it philosophy behind it and says this stuff is still garbage. There's at least some people that still say that including one of our own board members. And so, um, I was just curious, it sounds like the basis for it is our

051own internal one-year review is the thing that gives us the most confidence about it. >> Well, and that we have the materials in the hands of teachers and that the student achievement results are indicative of success. So, I think when when you look at whether or not you're going to buy something, you want to know whether it's effective. And so we've been using this program and the pipeline of students coming up from our, you know, our primary grades are stronger than they were in the past. And so there is a correlation there, Cody, between the materials we are using, the instruction we're providing, and the results we're attaining. There's no one who does AP teachers AP stats in here, right? I'm I mean, I just want obviously that's a that's a it's that's not a

052valid argument because you don't know what it would have been had you used any other curriculum. just say, "Well, we like the results, so therefore this thing that's oneif of the overall curriculum works." I mean, that that wouldn't stand up to our math curriculum. >> You're right in the sense that if we adopted one of the approved curriculums by the state, I also would have no idea because they didn't provide us with any research. >> Yeah, that's fine. That's a nonsequator. My my point is the whole basis for what we're doing is a one-year internal review on something that at least the only board member that we have that is a practitioner and studies it. But there are other folks who we've all spoken to or some of us have who also are practitioners of

053this that have serious concerns over it. And I just think it's interesting to flag that you have this company out there and this program that propagated this really horrible thing on kids for a very long time and they've corrected it. Okay. And we're very comfortable using it on the basis of uh our own internal reveal. And I just to me that's a a red flag and we don't need to beat a >> still living horse on this but >> yeah you can add one thing and then I think we should >> Yeah. I mean, I think I think you're getting into an area where you're talking also about just scientific research. And most of the publishing companies actually hire the people that do the research that put out the white papers. Most of them don't

054have really robust research behind them. And I think basing an educational decision on a podcast that came out, yes, it's highly political and the reading wars have existed for I don't know as long as I've been in the profession, a long time. And so you have to make the local decisions that are right for your teachers, that are right for your kids, and you have to get in and dig in and look at the materials and see if they're going to work. And I think the piece is the districts that only relied on that for years and didn't have anything else. That is not what we're doing. And you turned out pretty good. And I bet you had the units of study. >> Admittedly, can I just add one thing? So, I was gonna say

055I did my own I don't >> but I just I didn't invoke a podcast. Podcast is easier to >> better at math >> run away from >> but I again I I feel bad that Mike's not here because I can't do this on his behalf. But I would say that I've spoken to other people who are credible on this. It's not like I'd say my point isn't that we're wrong. It's that I see reason to be cautious and to really double click on it. Uh, and that's that's kind of the key point, >> Sophie. >> Seriously, I I appreciate your point that you can never do a perfect experiment, right? Because you're always having different kids coming through. >> Yeah. With different schools and different curriculum and you don't know. And I mean I I

056did want to comment that I I'm so happy with the way that you presented the data this year that it is much easier and follow the cohorts through the various different years. So I just wanted to say thank you because I know that was comment we made last year and I was watching the presentation today and it's like oh look like it all lines up and I can track them through and I can see how everyone is doing. So to me that was like very helpful and really showed the gains that we're making. Um, but just to Cody's point, something I will say when I was visiting all the different elementary schools, I got a lot of comfort of seeing the reading programs and the consistency in every classroom in every school going across what

057they're learning. And I really liked the um Hegy and Foundations. And as a parent, my whatever third kid didn't have that program, and now my fourth kid has, and I see how helpful it is to the children. And I really So I just see it not as an educator. I'm not a PhD like uh Mike, but um you know as a parent I do see that it there's it's so much more accessible um the curriculum. So and obviously we are seeing gains and we can't have run a perfect experiment but it seems like looks pretty good to me. >> Okay, if we could keep moving and Tom and Dana, can you please just come sit with us because watching you stand is like I feel like I'm at the back of a church. So just

058like I mean there's obviously we have a lot of room and I mean I don't know Ralph do you want to give your team more space like maybe you come sit up here just in general? >> Do you want to switch to mathematics? >> No, I don't. No, I want to hear from Bridget. I want to hear about the high school. >> Yes. >> What do you want to ask? >> I mean whatever you think you want to share. Tell me like something good, something bad. >> Oh, okay. I I'll respond to um Miss Cen's comment about what what worked. And I I think um we definitely have the fire in the belly, especially being so close to some of the scores like the top in the state. I don't I don't need to name

059them, but we're quite close. And I think we are really intent on knocking some of those schools out. So, um watch out. But I I would say um the English department works really closely with a powerful ally that social studies. We really work together on SAT preparation, for example. and we don't let it dominate our classes. We are working naturally. We leverage STEM skills. You know, I mentioned last time we target the grammar that's going to be essential and we do the practice in a natural way. So, it's woven into the questioning we're doing. So, we're happy about that. We're happy that um we we really have looked at the high needs kids and we're really trying to raise those scores and have done so. So, we're happy about that. Um, in terms of the

060AP scores, uh, those two AP English scores, those tests are hard if you ever look at them. Um, I was talking about this at dinner, the AP lang, the first question after 55 multiple choice is you synthesize seven articles including graphs, and you have to write an a claim driven essay. It's exhausting. And then you do two more essays for two. They're tough. We had that's the test AP line that had the highest numbers of takers. It was our highest number ever and we we hit 4.0 and that's that's great. I'm so proud. The teachers have done a great job. Um and AP Lit another you could have a medieval poem, you could have anything. They're challenging. All the APs are challenging but um we our score is a bit higher than last year which

061was a great score. So really really proud of the hard work our students do in the times when um we have a lot of reluctant readers in the world and these these kids are doing the reading and doing the writing and we're we're really happy with it >> anyone >> yeah go ahead this is is this I can't remember was this year or last year was the first year that we have kind of less of the gatekeeping around taking APs and I just was wondering if you could talk about that a little bit. >> We we haven't um Oh, when I started when I taught AP Lit um in well back in the day when we were in caves scoring these things, but we we had such tight gatekeeping that I wondered my first year

062you these what we expected of kids what you would expect at the end of the course. It was such a high expectation. But um we haven't for years had we we haven't had an AP entrance test. So, it's been pretty open for the AP courses. Um, you know, students understand it's going to be a very rigorous challenge and the AP lit, you're a senior. There are other things some seniors want to do. So, they're committing to a full year of hardcore work and that's that's great, but we really haven't. Um, the numbers are about the same. AP Lang has grown and grown and grown, but um that's, you know, it's been it hasn't suffered at all. I think certainly the scores haven't. >> Actually, you rais a good question. How many of your seniors actually

063take the AP exam? >> The um it's on the chart, but the so the AP lit was maybe it's 120 something and the AP >> No, but I'm saying of the how many are actually enrolled in API >> because I bet there's I mean I bet there's a few that are like no thanks, I went to college. >> No, no. Uh for AP courses from day one for English courses, we say if you take the course, you take the exam. So, I would say one or two at the last minute or drop out or sick or whatever. But we really expect the kids to take the exam. We want we want them to we want to know how we did and um it's a it's a really good experience for students. So, we do expect

064them to take the exam. We're very clear on that. If they don't take the exam, we've always asked them to take a um stand in exam. That's a release test and take it at that time. We proctor that. So, we've been very successful with that. So, 300 something students took that course. We didn't have that many more took it. They didn't take it. No, we we've had very good luck with that. >> Um >> I was just curious how um how do you think about like what is I don't I I'm asking this because I don't know. It's not like a leading the question thing. What how should you interpret the wide range of average scores for different classes? You know, like there's a all these all these tests are, correct me if I'm wrong,

065are benchmarked on the same like a three as an average or something nationally, something like that. Is that right? >> You mean across you mean across like curriculums like science to >> Yeah. Yeah. Like like it >> No, because it's weird like computer science I I know this stuff now. Like computer science it was crazy. you in order to get like a Andrew correct me if I'm wrong, but to get a a five you had to be like 90% or something like that, whereas in BC calc you're like 70%. >> They're all great. Is that just grading on a curve? >> I guess my question was like what is it that is intrinsic to like AP art history that makes the score so low and you know AP biology that makes the score so high?

066It's just interesting that there's not like, you know, you you have you have a lot of kids taking these tests that they they they conform around some are just really low scores and some are really high scores. It just seems like a I don't know how to explain that to myself. I was wondering if you have >> don't know how to answer that, but I would say in the in the courses that you'd think would have the same basic skills when the 10th graders AP Lang and AP history, they get roughly the same. They're very much in the same ballpark because you're you're talking about common skills. Um really critical reading and strong writing. So those those courses when we compare the history and English course in 10th grade, they're very similar and very strong.

067I fig go but yeah whatever you want >> is that is is a way to interpret that that it's a mix thing of just the students you have similar students they get similar scores and different students different scores >> I don't think so because I feel like I mean AP art history is known to be like nearly impossible. I don't know why, but that like I've known a lot of kids who are like, "No, thank you." Like they have no problem taking AP physics, but then they'll like take the AP art history and we'll get like a three and they'd get a f like this is something is this not common knowledge. Feel free to >> But it's not like the But aren't these all don't aren't AP tests all indexed to uh the same

068curve? Like >> so every kid in the country could get a two on the AP US history test. They don't like rebase it to Well, I don't know. I'm curious. I actually would look. >> It's graded on. It's scored based on a rubric that teachers who do the scoring sit with. It's not a >> So like everyone So the whoever scores the AP art history is just a real pill. I think there's enough. Can I just ask the College Board has certain criteria and that also lends itself within the grading process for the different subject areas and so different subject areas would also um have different points or or skills that they want to emphasize or test as well. I mean anybody would want to talk to the college board aspect of it because these

069are not school driven tests. These are done through the college board as well. >> Absolutely. One of our teachers um scored AP lip t um tests last year and um something like 70 hours worth of scoring on her own time and she was given a rubric. She was trained on it and tested on her scoring and then and then scored them. So against that rubric, not the curve or something else. And she was she came back with a font of information for us. So it was a great experience. And she said, you know, for the um literature test and the lang test, it's very hard for kids to get this last point, which is sophistication point. And just think about that's so abstract, but that's the point that's the hardest to establish and show. But

070again, it was to a rubric. Okay, we're really clocking. Okay. Um, can we move to Matt? Yeah, >> Andrew, we're gonna ask you like a thousand questions now about the AP exams because maybe you have the secret sauce. >> But okay, I'm afraid to share that with you, Cody. Impossible. Impossible apparently. >> Oh, come on here. >> Okay, Mike, you want to want to share something interesting? >> He's scared now. >> I could go on and on. Um yeah, I'm just I'm really proud of of to speak to what Mr. Deikica was talking about early on about the consistency that we've we've sort of um stayed with across the district. Um you know, over the years, like I said, we were kind of all over the place in the last 5 years coming out of

071what I call the Great Reset. We've been very consistent with what we're doing and and we just sort of make these fine-tune little tweaks every year. And so, um, I guess the one thing I' I'd really love to share, um, is one of our digital partners, um, Reflex, which is helping us with fact fluency, where, um, each kiddo goes in, um, in the early grades, second and third, um, but it follows them to fourth and fifth, maybe even sixth sometimes. Um, we're really building their capacity to have their math facts memorized, which I think is freeing up their working memory to be able to attack more rigorous tasks. And if any of you have ever seen one of these SBA assessments, they are very, very tricky. There's a lot of reading that you have to

072get through. And if you don't know your facts, they become almost impossible sometimes to to figure out because you're thinking so much about what's seven times six that you can't even think about what the question is actually asking you. So I'm really proud that um we've sort of figured out our recipe over the last few years and we've seen that jump this year like I said 5%. We were kind of clockwork 2% 2 and a half% and then we just jumped 5%. And to reference Kim from earlier, um the pipeline we're building from the lower grades, we're really seeing dividends with that now. Um I think um I'm also very proud of what we do with our zero block kiddos um at the high school that it uh is growing and um this year I

073think we have somewhere around 17 or 18 students in honors algebra 2 at the high school ranging from sixth to eighth graders. I think that's a really cool thing that we do in this district that our surrounding districts don't really do and and we value it and um just for anybody who's budget conscious um if we decided not to have it, we would have to pay for John's Hopkins Center for Talented Youth and support these kiddos in independent studies. So, it's really almost a netneutral sort of wash there if we decided to go another route. So, it's a very cool thing that we do in our district and I'm I'm super proud of that. But, you know, really everything goes out to the teachers for the hard work that they're doing from our interventionists to

074our classroom teachers and and um you know, trusting the support and and um to reference again earlier on when we talked about the priority school model, I think was super successful because it allowed the coordinators and various supports to focus our attention uh very specifically on certain schools and um I think that um you know paid paid itself off um very well and And um you know I have a great counterpart at the high school, Andrew, and we work very well together as we I sort of shuffle the kids up to him and then he stewards them from there. And um you know, I'm just um I'm grateful for everything we have. And and it goes without saying, Bonnie Orian who you know monitors these kiddos from a very very early age. And today she

075was just sharing a story with Mark and I and maybe later on she'll get a chance to share it but of a of a kiddo who's at Stanford now and the professor is referencing um some of the stuff that she knows and trying to change his curriculum based on that. And you know our super bright kiddos that that Bonnie shepherds through our district are are um you know they're loved and they're taken care of. So um I guess I'll I'll stop there and I'll let Andrew speak to the high school and then I'll be happy to answer any questions. Uh, thank you, Mike. Um, I couldn't have said it any better. Uh, our teachers deserve a tremendous amount of credit for the time and dedication that they put in each day working with our kids

076before, during, and after school to help them reach such great successes. I also want to thank the board. You know, a couple years back when Mike and I were new and we were transitioning to these positions, you had the faith in us uh to adopt the new program, Big Ideas, as well as some of the other curriculum uh decisions that we made. And I think as a result of the consistency and the hard work of the teachers and and the support of all of you, we we are reaching tremendous heights. So, thank you. Um, you know, the only other thing I would say that that hopefully is everyone's read by now, and I know Tony was nice enough to put it in uh the Friday news, you know, our our our programs are getting noticed

077and and that is awesome. Um, I've been at this a long time and to to think that uh, you know, we had Ed Week reach out to us this summer to highlight our success in AP pre-calculus as well as our entire K12 math program is uh, it gives me goosebumps to this day. So, uh, we're doing really great things. We're working hard. We still want to do more. Um, but uh, we have, I think, the team and and the right approach to to reach those new heights. So, thank you. I know I asked Mr. Demo this years ago and and I got a very reassuring answer. Um, do we still have math interventionists and at every elementary? >> Yes. Yes, we do. >> I find that very reassuring. Thank you. Mhm. >> No, I had

078a question. Does anyone have a question? While I'm looking for my own question, >> I just have a question of um now with the new schedule this year at the high school, do you are you seeing any impact sort of in terms of students ability to get help or is it better, is it worse, is it making any difference to your program? >> Yeah, I I think it has had a very positive effect. you know, um our teachers are there in their classrooms every se every morning at 7:30 offering extra help and um you know, they're a lot of times in um really insisting on kids come. Uh so that's been great since, you know, the buses do get there by 7:30 and they're able to get into their classrooms and get the extra help

079that they need. So that's really been a bonus for us as a as a school and certainly as a department. uh whereas, you know, a couple years back when we had opportunity block, I don't think the kids were as willing to to really come in and and really benefit from from that type of extra help. So, I again, it's all anecdotal, but I've seen a very positive impact thus far. >> Um I'm just looking at the scores. There's not much you can say about them. They seem to seemingly keep going up, which seems hard, but they are. Um the only you seem to have just a decline in the number of students right taking AP computer science A and computer science principles any reason for that shift >> chat GBT >> no it is something

080that we are watching Kathleen you know it has dropped a little bit I think some of that may have to do with some of the other requirements that students are being asked to fulfill these days for example personal finance um so you know that's a a great addition But it it comes at a cost. You can only fit in so many electives. So that is something that we're we're monitoring. Um and hopefully later this year, um College Board is releasing a few new AP classes in computer science. Um which we're excited about. We're just doing some pre preliminary research on it right now. I hope to bring it to the board hopefully this year to um have you guys learn more about it and and hopefully approve some other opportunities for our kids to grow

081in computer science. Is it that class that you we were already doing, the one class beyond computer science? Any chance that that one's going to align with the AP that's coming out or No, >> not not exactly. Uh the the newest one that's coming out is on cyber security, uh which is uh a really hot topic right now. I think there's something like 100,000 jobs and that are going unfulfilled every year because kids or people don't have that training. So, uh that's that's going to be the the next thing I bring forward to you guys. And uh we're just diving into the syllabus right now to try to uh figure out if it is something that we can do right away or if it's going to take us a little bit longer to prepare for.

082>> Great. >> I have a ma a math question. So a most of the data that we report on is related to um growth or or actually it's it's really related to getting to a certain proficiency level. And so that's obviously super important and an interesting metric. One thing in surveying from what you know concerns from people or whatever is um the idea that uh you can help students that are below proficiency by pushing lot uh any student above proficiency into more advanced classes and crowding some of the advanced learning tracks. I don't know if that theory has validity or not, but I was thinking about it in terms of the data we have and what we have to measure um the performance of uh already proficient groups. So if you wanted to say hey

083how are how is our top quartortile of performers doing? I don't think we have data currently in here on that and maybe we do and just but but um what I my math question was what is a good way what would what would be a good way to measure that and do you think that's an important thing to measure so the way I hear what you're saying is how do we measure how our kids are growing at that are achieving at the highest levels based on these state assessments are which are assessing them at a grade level. >> Yeah. And actually maybe just if you're among the students that are already proficient, how are they doing? And you could stratify that into kind of subgroups, but because there's I feel like the big line in

084the report is, you know, getting to proficiency and it's like, okay, but what from there and what what is what trends are happening amongst that group, >> right? So, um, we were just looking at this data today, Bonnie and I, and our our kiddos that are in the advanced learning track. I think it's something around 96% of them are hitting their growth targets based on what the state is saying for the SBA. But if you really look into that deeply, um those for those kids, it's usually about two grade levels below what they're actually learning. And so, um, one of the things we're actually doing this year with with some of our assessing is, um, we're using the NWA a little bit more, which is a computer adaptive assessment, especially with those kids in the

085advanced learning program to track their growth because that will follow wherever they go when they take the assessment. It's not static. So, it will go all the way up into calculus if the if the students continue to show that they know the skill below it. And so, um, we're having all of our advanced learning kiddos in the elementary school, um, use that as a sort of a benchmark for us to see because it is tricky to use the SBA for them because they tend to already know it. That being said, it can be an interesting thing that happens when they get so far advanced. Sometimes the stuff that they're being assessed on for the state assessment becomes a little foggy and um, it's just interesting to see sometimes. And so there is value in them

086still being assessed there to make sure that they have those sort of prerequisites that we would expect them to have at those levels. But um we're getting into more uh computer adaptive assessments to see um you know how these kids are actually performing. >> No, no, I'm with you on that like on continuing to assess that. It's just more trying to think of like do you look at average scores or do you um uh you know do a cohort of like everyone that is above proficiency. Here's the average. The average scores are tricky. But I don't know just trying to think of and it's a question for next year which won't be my problem but maybe to help the next uh the next board if it's an area of interest is how to how to

087measure how we're doing like great great you're proficient. How are we how do we know when we're doing better or worse for the kids in that bucket and and and tracking it over you know I'm sure you have some of the data already. >> Yeah. And so we look at their growth rate. So the state gives us a growth rate for them. Um, and it tells us that you need to Mike needs to grow a certain amount of points and Cody needs to grow a certain amount of points. And so we want them to hit those growth targets. So you could have a scenario where a student is at a level four and they achieve that in grade three and then in grade four they are still a level four but they're a lower level

088four. So they didn't hit the targeted growth points that the state assigned for for them. And so we do look at those individual growth points and we get those metrics and they let us know if a kid is, you know, in the green, the yellow or the red or the orange or whatever the the color coding might be. And so um that's why we like to focus on the growth because um we're looking at every single kid where they started and what points they need to make in order to um stay on track. But again um some of our kids are way advanced past what the state assessments are. Would you be able to maybe show the growth rates by like even if you split it into quartiles or something? That might be an interesting

089way to do it. >> Sure. Yeah, absolutely. >> You all would find that interesting. >> I may or may not tune into that meeting next year, but >> um it's great. Is that a wrap on math? Okay. Thank you. Can we move to science, please? Yes. Thank you. >> Can I just make one comment about the AP thing because this is >> Yes, you may. It's obviously driving you nuts. I looked up the average AP score for AP US history in the country is a three and AP bio according to what they published it on their website. It was I think a 3.19. It just seems nutty to me that Greenwich High School would be below a national average in anything. >> We're not below. >> No. Our our AP US history is like a

090>> No way. AP US history must be >> No. Sorry. Gosh. Not US art history. Art history. >> Oh, art history. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, because because I took the thing of no, it's just that hard. But like relative to the national average, we're crushing it in bio. And my advice on that was maybe uh again just for next year or whatever. You don't have to report on averages for each one, but maybe if we're below a three or we're below a 35 in something, it's worthwhile to put a thick red line on the page and say, "Here's where the national average is." And then to really confront that like our our art history scores are it's like I mean if you had said to me on the street with no info, hey do you

091think Greenwich High School's art history program scores above or below the national average on the AP test, I would lose a lot of money betting that we would score above it. Uh and so that feels like something that we shouldn't just let slide and be like, "Oh, it's a hard class, whatever." like that just seems like a very low level of performance versus a national average for us. >> Yeah, that surprises me. Um I was going to say because for sure for APS history I knew we knocked it out of the park and I was always especially impressed because our kids take it their sophomore year and most people take it their junior year. So, um, anyway, so science, >> but Tony, is that something we could do for like just on on on AP

092classes where our average is lower than the national average to kind of like >> circle it in a red mark? >> We get that data when we get the scores and we can see the national average, but there are just so many different factors that go into it. How many students actually when you're talking about an average, are you talking about 10 students? Are you talking about a hundred students? I mean, it just And when you start getting into things like art where they have a portfolio, it totally changes because if they got sick for three weeks and they didn't keep up with their portfolio, their portfolio score might be lower. I mean, all of these subjects are treated very, very differently in how they're scored. But yes, we could do that. >> Well, like

093history is I don't want to say that, but it says our history >> four years in a row like below 2.8 And last year with 24 kids 2.5 like >> that's 87. >> Oh, thank you. >> That just seems beneath us to be an elitist about Greenidge quality. >> Okay. 25 >> science which knocked it out of the park. >> What's that? >> Yeah. >> Yes, we certainly did. I think we'll start with grade five where we saw the most impressive year-over-year growth. Um, and I want to remind everybody that Greenwich Public Schools allocates 30 minutes of science on a part-time basis inter intermixing with social studies, which is far less than the DURS that we compare ourselves to, and we continue to perform at and above their levels, which is phenomenal. uh the instructional

094minutes. We compete with a lot of other priorities within our district, but our fifth grade students and our teachers continue to work really hard to implement our curriculum with fidelity and support the students to meet success on the test. And the scores this year blew me away. I think blew a lot of our administrators away. Probably not the students because they knew how hard they worked and maybe not their parents either. But we're really excited and we we hope to continue to see such a trajectory. I think when Sean and I saw the scores coming out and they just kept getting higher and higher as more were being released, we're like, "Okay, the pressure continues to be on. Here we go. We're surpassing our five-year strategic goals, which is really exciting news for the entire

095district. And it it's a lot in onus to the administrators that you see around the room who are leading in the buildings on a day-to-day basis. Obviously, with 34 sections of fifth grade, it's hard for me to get to every single one of those fifth grade teachers to give them hands-on support, but the administrators in this building do that and they take the recommendations that I make and they make sure it's happening day in and day out for our students. So, thank you to everybody here. Um, and we have a fun curriculum and it's a homegrown curriculum which is really exciting and it's something that we're sticking with and and our teachers love it and our students love it and it's about Greenidge and we use phenomena that's town-based. We partner with our town agencies

096such as the Bruce Bruce Museum, the Ottabbon Center, the Botanical Center. We do some cool stuff and it's paying off not only in our students experiences in their lives, but on the test scores. So, fifth grade, I think we're we're pumped about more than than anything else. Um, but middle school is where my heart lies. As you know, I was a middle school teacher and our middle school teachers are 20 of the most talented in the district. I may be biased, but I'm in their classrooms a lot and they literally blow stuff up and it's fun to watch and to enjoy. Um, and their scores continue to impress everybody. Um, they continue to grow at all three of our schools this year and it was very exciting to see which then leads us to Sean.

097>> Thank you, Tara and welcome back. >> Um, I mean, we're really fortunate to to be in such a great district where our educators are so collaborative. um across all the levels. And so that's one thing that I I feel has been uh really good for the science department is we've been getting them together more to talk about the things that we're doing in not in just middle school, but in high school and seeing how we can use different strategies within the classroom to help support the kids and more importantly get their thoughts out. I think that's one of the biggest things that we've been doing um in our classrooms and our teachers have been uh buying in big time and uh big thank you to the ma uh the math department which we stole

098um some of their ideas for building thinking classrooms um and uh now if you go into a science classroom there's whiteboards on every single wall. We have individual whiteboards in every single classroom and we're really just trying to promote kids thinking um and and really put trying to put the cognitive load on the students at all levels and make sure every student has necessary supports um and I think it showed um with our NGSS scores and um you know we implemented a new platform uh last year um in orbit which is a three to three dimensional assessment formative assessment platform um and uh at first we were just really we really just focus on the stats and um as we were we were looking at those we're like why why are the kids still doing

099really poorly on these uh questions and um going from my sports side of things it was more like we need to start focusing on the process what is the process of how you go through all these uh assessments and how do you how do you really identify the things that you need in here to answer the questions and so we started breaking those down a lot more and focusing on that during our our program meetings and PLC time um doing a lot of show and shares with uh in in our with all of our teachers and then having them go implement in the class and again all of that was based on getting kids to think um and that helped us I think get to a pretty good number of 88% of students um meeting

100proficiency um which was second in the state but I think more importantly for us it was we have a lot of our students um that are you know with with disabilities that are scoring um the highest they've ever scored um we continue to lower the number of students students are getting one and uh and we also ranked number one in overall average in the state. So we were just very happy with that and uh our AP scores continue to be very very good. the number of students taking our AP courses um has been increasing. um you know we had a slight dip in AP physics C but you know we that that assessment um they converted into two full tests um and again we do both of those courses in one year um which is

101already very challenging for the students um and uh so we're we're analyzing the data to see how we can further support the students on that but uh I think we're doing a we're doing okay questions. Sophie, anyone? >> Yeah, it's hard to answer questions on that. I mean, I think you addressed what I was going to ask about the drop in, um, why fewer people were taking AP physics one, but >> well, uh, it was why there was a drop in a AP physics one, >> just the number of people taking the exam, wasn't that the one that was down? >> Yeah. Well, it it typically fluctuates each year depending on um, you know, what what the course requests are. And so some years we have more students that want to take AP physics one.

102Some years we have a lot more that want to take uh AP environmental science, AP chemistry. You know, um last year was the the the year we had the most students do a jump into um AP physics C. Um that was the first time we ever had three sections of students taking AP physics C, which is our highest level. Um this year we have two again, but now we have more sections of AP physics one. Um, so every year it kind of fluctuates within that and then that kind of dictates. Um, but overall we have more more kids taking u those AP courses and uh and doing very well at it. >> Yeah, they're challenging. >> So just um I was wondering with fifth grade, do all the fifth graders do the Soundwatter day or

103is that only some of the schools? >> Um, no. Soundwaters is not an issured for fifth grade. No. Um, not every single school has to go to Soundwaters within fifth grade. Certain schools decide to use that as their kind of big end ofear fifth grade celebration trip, but it's not something that's in the science curriculum in fifth grade. In fourth grade, we have an experience and students do a science and nature assured experience where they get to choose one of three different locations to go to. One of which being Todd's Point, one of which being Soundwaters, or they can choose to go to the botanical center or we farm in Wilton, and they get to check out one of those to do their science and nature assured experience. But um Found Waters is not automatic

104to every single school, although we do offer that as an option in fourth grade. The art and fourth grade teachers together decide whether or not they'd like to do that. I will say many PTAs do pick up a Soundwarters trip for certain buildings. Um and that's kind of how that functions right now. >> Is the secret to the high scores the low amount of instruction you referenced earlier? >> Yes, it must. >> How did I know you were gonna latch on? I think I think the secret to the high scores is we this year in particular, we looked at schools who required another layer of support and we really targeted the support to four of those elementary schools and their scores really picked it up to bring it to the average of what our other

105schools had historically performed at. And that support looked like targeting um teacher practices around phenomena. It looked at targeting the IABS and implementing our interim assessment blocks across grades three, four, and five. Which is why I hope to see this continued trajectory because the support didn't just come to fifth grade classrooms. It came to third, fourth, and fifth grade classrooms. The fifth grade tests can be on any of the 42 standards that are assessed that are instructed in third, fourth, or fifth grade. And we never know what it's going to be on. And you'll see one this year, and it won't be the same question next year. So we we worked at grades three, four and five to get those IABS implemented with fidelity and paste. And then we introduced the NGSS practice test which

106is a state release test of seven questions. And for the first time this year, we went in and proctored that with administrators in the classroom supporting teachers and we put students in an environment where they had to do all seven questions at once. An IAB, like I've mentioned, is just one question. The actual NGSS test is 18 questions. So, we worked on supporting students grit and rigor to be able to withstand that level of testing for that long period of time in implementing the practice tests. And I think it came back tenfold for us. I think our student testing behaviors on the day of the actual test were very strong. They knew when to take breaks. They knew how to self monitor because we put them in a bit more of a rigorous pre-EST environment.

107I that is such a great answer and great management style and I'm sure that a lot of other folks do that and maybe just don't incorporate in their answers but the whole thing of like we found here's the three or four week things and we just went and hammered it and made those better. That is uh I just wanted to acknowledge what a great approach that is. Everybody should do that. >> Thanks. It's a full team. We're all we're all copying and pasting each other's work. The other thing I like to just translate to the APs is you talked about preparing these elementary school kids for the tests. I mean these and you hit on it too, Bridget. I mean these tests are long and they're really like endurance and I mean having picked up

108children from them I'm like >> man you must be and sometimes they take two a day. I mean these kids are incredible. I just think and I know the teachers are teaching to it, but the fact that you've taught them to sort of keep up that pace, >> it starts young is kind of what >> if I could add on to that real quick. Along with the it's it's it's a lot very similar for the NGSS test. The NGSS test has no timing. So the students can take as much time as they want. And so at least in the high school classes, we allow for them to take multiple days to complete the assessment. So I think that's one of the great things about it is, you know, we have a lot of kids who

109are taking at all levels that are taking, you know, two plus hours uh to take these assessments and do their best. You know, they're really trying to take their time. They're trying to show their knowledge. Um and and they uh they've been doing very well over the past few years. So it's great. >> Um so >> no, I know you're wondering, well, what do we do about all these other people? >> No, I already said Dr. Jones, there's no way we're letting them leave without each principal going. >> Well, I have to tell you a little secret. Uh there's many of them are hoping they don't have to come to >> No way. No way. >> And but I'm going to tell you why. U remember last year and this this is attributed to Dr.

110Mike and I hope he's feeling okay and see him soon. Um he had asked us to add in midyear kind of a state of the district where we bring the principles back and do their twominut kind of update on their schools. So, um, we didn't plan to have every principal speak tonight. I think they're here just to show you how united we are in our efforts to support the children. >> That's great. I still want to hear like 45 seconds from each one. I think it would >> tonight. I think that I mean, they came. Yeah. Go ahead, Jen. And then >> so tonight I first of all, job well done. I mean the from actually the compiling of the document to all of the hard work that took place. Excellent. And please extend that

111to your teachers, those of whom are not faithfully watching right now. Um but please extend that to them as well because this is amazing. >> Well, and there's one person I'd like to recognize. I don't know if he's in the room or not. He might be over at the fire station because he's also a volunteer fireman. Our academic services manager, Jason Kim, is the uh behind the scenes architect of the beautiful uh presentations that you see. Um I give him very crude drawings of graphs and he makes them look incredibly impressive because I know Cody scrutinizes them. Uh so uh he he really deserves uh a shout out tonight. I I don't see him here, unfortunately. Is he in is he is he online? Okay, Jason, great job. So, my question is, we have a

112lot of data points, a lot of analysis, and we've talked about the different ways that that the data is presented, how it's interpreted, how we could um kind of drill down a little bit more on on different pieces of data. But I'm interested to hear from the principles um not just data points but in your schools what do you feel um or what did you do within your school like one thing that you would say really helped the students um I don't know the best way to say this but to really internalize the learning. By that I mean I was at one school and I hope this principal will talk about it. There uh prior to one of the exams there was a race around the world and the students went into different classrooms and

113they had a question and they had to work collaboratively to do that. Um, and I believe that was geared towards science. >> I believe she's talking about >> um, but that was something that integrated and then it and then it came, you know, it it reinforced all the learning and hence, you know, the >> I think you're talking about this fellow >> that guy. All right. >> Yes. Dr. Russo, could you just explain that because I I I was there and I I did see that and then other principles if if I did miss one of your fun activities. I'm sorry. Um, but if there was something in your school that you thought that you brought forward to the school with the teachers that really reinforced it because I think we we always look at

114data points and and that's very important but I think sometimes we lose um how it actually works in the school, right? and how those things um all sort of work together in a fun environment and different ways that reinforce that learning for the students. So if if you would like to speak otherwise Miss Do is going to force you to speak. So >> no the fun >> I was going to say everyone should take like fun we do a minute each right 15 minutes. Okay >> you have the time. >> Here we go. >> But before Dr. Russo uh shares uh that experience I want to say I was at Dr. Russo school earlier today and he was meeting with our other two lead principles at the elementary level, Gio Flood and Clare Monaco, and

115they were actually planning a data protocol that they're going to work on with all of the other elementary principles, which then will turnkey back to their staff. And the importance of me sharing that is this. They're an incredibly collaborative group. And so when we talk about sharing best practices and getting surgical about identifying what works in one building and where's a deficiency in another and how do we apply what we've learned for, you know, for success reasons, we're doing those things on a daily basis. So Dr. >> Sure. Thanks and thanks Jen for being at the amazing race last year and for always being such a presence at the schools. We appreciate it. Um, you know, I think that one of the the things that is so important to us as school leaders is that

116we think about different contexts in which our students can be successful and where they're going to be asked to apply their learning, sorry, to apply their learning inside of their classroom every day in in a lesson. There's interimm assessments that we're we're giving that we're uh looking at and and tracking that data very carefully to see where students are growing and where we need to do more teaching. And sometimes we just have a really good time and you got to be there on a day that we had a really good time. One of my personal favorite TV shows is The Amazing Race. And so um on one of the days right before the students sit the SBA all of the non-esting grades turn their classroom into a country. They have a essentially what's like a

117practice SBA question reading, writing or SC um sorry ELA math or science. And then our third, fourth, and fifth graders get to break up into teams and uh run a race around the building for like an hour or so. and and um be in and out of the little kids classrooms with them cheering them on as they prepare for the big assessment that they'll take just a few days later. So, it's a the highlight of of of my year. We have a really good time and uh and thank you for for recognizing it. >> That's great. >> I was just going to say to make it uh a little more spicy. I would love to hear from each principal just the one big thing they are focused on trying to do in their school that's

118not easy. So, everyone will get up and say, "Our school is great. Kids are great. Love all the things we do, whatever." But I'm, you know, if there's something unique, you call it like this is what keeps me up. This is what I'm driving towards. I think that would really help uh uh give us all something to more ponder. >> I'll go first. What keeps me up is wondering what questions Cody King is gonna ask. >> It's okay. You've used your minute. >> Sure. >> Uh um Dan, you want >> No, I don't. >> Go ahead. You can go. >> So, I mean, something does come to mind. It's fine. So um we because we're a title one school we have a second interventionist in reading and math. Um some of our colleagues who are

119not title one schools only have a single one. And one of the things that we do that's really um that so so one of the things that we think about is that there's a large number of students in the title one schools that need intervention, right? Because there historically lower performing than some of our other schools. And so um we push our interventionists into the classroom during tier one math instruction. So instead of just pulling the lowest groups of students, they go in there and actually support the like the daily lesson with the teachers on kindergarten, first and third grade. And we looked at th we identified those grades um looking at some data. And so, um, what we're trying to do is stop a gap from forming, getting an extra professional, and the math

120interventionists are most seasoned math professionals in the district, pushing them inside of the classroom to buoy those students who might be struggling a little bit up to the grade level content before there's a large gap and they're identified by some other assessment as needed. This pull out service, we want to keep them inside the classroom as closely connected to their grade level content as possible. >> What grade? >> First, um, Cinder, kindergarten, first and third. Okay, I'll pass it to one of my colleagues. >> Thank you so much. All right. Do you have an order? >> Well, I'm just going to look at one and call them on Mary Granville Parkway School and we'll just walk work our way down. >> Hi, good evening everyone. Um, I'll start with a point of pride. Um, I

121we're very happy with our scores. We thank our teachers for all that they do for our students. Um, one particular point of pride was that we were found to be fourth in the state in our growth in ELA from third grade to fourth grade. So, that was super exciting. Um, and an area that keeps me up at night, Cody, I would say it was our science scores because although many of my counterparts did very well and they saw their scores go up, ours did not in fifth grade science. So, that certainly is going to be an area of focus for us this year. >> Philip, that's great. Philip, our new principal of ISD. I don't. Do I? Does this work? First of all, thank you. It's a privilege to be here. This is my first

122board meeting. Um, I can't take credit for any of the amazing scores at ISD being brand new, but I can say that it is an immense point of pride for all the different stakeholders in our community. So, you know, our ELA proficiency rating is at 81%, our math proficiency ratings at 83, and in particular, our science proficiency rating last year was at 91%. Um, I think that has to do with, you know, the answer at a place like ISD in Greenwich Public Schools in general. just the experience of our teachers, specifically in our upper elementary grades, being able to take the amazing resources and turnkey them to to meet the needs of specific cohorts of our students is something that I've already seen a lot of evidence of in classroom. So, that's a real point

123of pride, I think, for everybody in our school. Um, and then what keeps me up is, you know, I'm new and so I think building trust is real and that is, you know, true. building trust with everybody in this room, building trust with my administrator colleagues, building trust with our staff, and then most importantly our students and our families. And so, um, what that looks like thus far is really trying to get into every classroom every single day so that our amazing staff sees me as a thought partner and somebody who can not only see the great work that they do, but also provide critical feedback. Um, being at arrival and dismissal and, you know, seeing families every day, making sure that I'm I'm not learning just one cohort of names this year. I'm learning

124all of our students. And so making sure that parents know that I don't just know our kids, but I know their kid. Um is another thing that I'm, you know, is keeps me up because I'm I'm close. I'm not quite there yet. So >> it doesn't need to keep you up. It just needs to be the thing you are maniacally focused on. >> But I like it. But it's still trust. Building trust is something to be focused on. >> Join us for >> I was in Brier Cliff Manor prior to being here. >> Great. Thank you. Welcome. >> Thank you. >> Jason Riverside. Uh good evening everyone. How are you all? Uh, so man, Cody, you really uh just had me thinking about, you know, things that keep me up and and that I want

125to focus on. So, but before I do that, just a point of pride. Uh, super proud of my staff and my students and how they performed this year on the SBAs. Um, when I came here, a big uh point of concern was growth scores, right? So Cody, you talked about how uh the district should focus on or you ask questions regarding the upper echelon of students that are performing at a high level. And listen, 90% of my kids are performing, you know, at or above proficiency in ELA and >> and they perform that way even when the schools got shut down. >> That's that's right. So for me, you know, the growth that uh Mr. Reid was talking about earlier is really what's important because we want to make sure our kids are growing across

126the board. Um so the thing that keeps me up is about accountability. I mean, a lot of times what we uh think about is how much time our our teachers are with students and in front of students, but I would argue that equally important is what's going on when the teachers are offline and not in front of uh students. And so for me, my focus last year was really uh talking about the level of collaboration and we talk about PLC's and collective efficacy and what the adults are doing when they're together. So, uh, we talk about levels of collaboration. And so, there are times when adults get together and they just talk. And then there's times when adults get together and they're actually being vulnerable. They're sharing best practices. They're talking about what they're not

127good at. How did you do this in your classroom? So, they're really talking about how that the how behind the instruction. And so, for me, what keeps me up is how do I make sure that across the building when adults are offline, they are having those really powerful conversations. And so for myself and my AP, we often times are in those meetings to model and and show how that uh is supposed to look. But the real question is what's happening when we're not there? And that's what keeps me up. Is that is that what you can call like 200% accountability? Are the adults holding each other accountable uh for having those highlevel really collaborative conversations that are going to impact the classroom? So that's what we're working on. That's what we started working on last

128year. And I think because we focused on them and had protocols with our PLC's, I do believe that that's why the growth um I want to believe that that's why the growth uh that you see in the results uh happened, but we're going to continue working on that and just get better at it and we're going to see even better growth. So, we're doing it Riverside. >> Yes. Oh, >> and so just back to my original question. >> Yes. >> Um can you tell us one thing that you've done in the school that's fun and has promoted the learning either tied into one of the the testing or anything um what comes to mind that >> well I don't know if this necessarily would be well let me answer in two ways so one is

129because of what we focus in on it's about student work we're always looking at student work and so prior to me getting there um it was happening in pockets but now I know it's happening consistently across the building so we're celebrating student work so teachers are bringing things in we're looking at it we're evaluating it and it just continues to be impressive to me, the quality of work, the writing, the math, all the stuff that the students are doing. So, we're very proud of that. But the other stuff is the building thinking classrooms that we um it was already happening when when I got here, but it I was fortunate enough that my prior school district, we were also doing that kind of stuff. So man, across the building, if you want to see some

130really um high level learning going on across the building, you're going to see it in the during the math block because all of our teachers all the way down to second grade are doing building thinking classrooms at least once a month. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Mayo. Come on over. >> I like your beard. Very nice. >> We built a momentum here. So, >> you have momentum going. >> I'll kill that. Hi everybody. I'm very proud of uh what we've done at Granch High School over the last uh couple of years, especially this year with our uh with all of our scores, including our AP our history scores. Cody. Um, >> Granch High School is uh at most days has approximately 3,000 uh students and staff members there. What keeps

131me up at night is keeping those uh children and those adults safe. Um, but there's other things that I think about aside from that, but that's always at the top of my uh list. Um, my team that's behind me, the leadership team at Granch High School is highly creative. They care about their their students. They work well with their staff and their staff trust them. And you can't get any better than the people that are sitting behind me. And we meet once a week and sometimes we agree and sometimes we do not agree. But out of those uh discussions comes a lot of uh creative energy. Um the one thing that uh I'll highlight that we've done this year which uh we we talked about for two years before we uh actually put into place,

132we um we got rid of a practical level classroom uh in biology and we distribute those students among all of our bio regular bio sections. Um yesterday, uh Sean and Todd White went to uh take a look at what was going on in those classrooms and it's it's working. It's working wonderfully. So, we've got a group of students that were tracked uh across this the entire school day and now they're not. So, um, I'd like to thank Sean and his team for for getting that done. But it's happening in every subject area and it's, uh, quite amazing when you think and when you really believe that every child can learn, it happens. So, thank you. >> You have a question. Is there anything that would make you feel safer >> besides amending the public sector

133union contract that didn't allow us to hire a security? >> Can I have May I have a third SRO? >> Mike say Mr. >> Good evening everyone. Um so I would say the thing that um has been sort of the most impactful uh this past year was um our response to um the prior year's scores where we were not pleased with what we saw in terms of our levels of achievement. And so um the teachers really took that honest challenge and they got together and um got back to really talking about instruction in a consistent manner at the team level. Um, so I'm really proud of how they responded to that and how they have really relied on each other and done what's best for kids by um, taking a look at the instructional strategies

134that are crosscutting and making sure that there's consistency in how they're being implemented in each of the classrooms. So um, one example for that would be um, how they do claim evidence and reasoning in terms of their written responses. We call them CERS and making sure that they're using the same language and having the same expectations for kids across the different um, content areas. so that the repetition is there in terms of their ability to um communicate through writing. So, um that is one thing that was really helpful and that did result in a rebound in our achievement level. Um one thing that Cody mentioned earlier in the in the um meeting and also is the thing that I'm hyperfocused on now are those growth scores. Um so I think we were surprised by and

135therefore responded to our achievement scores. And so now this year we're really taking a look at those growth scores and we're excited to have the um NWA map assessment to also look at where kids are exactly and where they're going to um hopefully get to by continuing with that consistent instructional practice. Um we've paired uh one of the ways we're doing that is we've we've um been using a lot of the AVID strategies um and there's been um a great focus on um sort of task predicts performance. So what is it that the students are doing in the classroom and the direct tie to the learning outcome and making that explicit to the kids. Um so if um in most another example would be in if you're working on written communication written output uh of

136your thinking um often times there's reading associated with that. But if the focus is writing the kids have to understand that the writing outcomes and the writing expectations are the focus and that's where all of the time is spent instructionally. um it doesn't mean you're ignoring the reading, but it just means that the hyperfocus is on what our expectations are in terms of the writing. So really being explicit about what it is that our target is for each individual task. >> Thank you, Tom. >> Good evening. Thank you. I want to share two points of pride. One is for our fourth graders. For the students who have been with us for five years, which is one of our goals for the district, we're at 94.3%. So, we were proud of that. As well as our

137science, which was a huge improvement. We had a long conversation last year when we saw our scores, very disappointing, and this year we were at 96% which was an all-time high for us. Um, so I think one of the things we attributed that most to was our fifth grade team who were phenomenal, who were also very disappointed when they saw those scars last year, the prior year, and really wanted to focus on what we could do differently and working very closely with Tara Fogle and implementing the March Madness calendar and some of the fun things that were included in there, including doing some quiz show and competitive activities related to the science standards using data and TUVA and the um IAB questions and we also gave it for the first time before April break which

138was a change for us. We've always given it later in the spring to give the students as much time as possible but this year because of the timing of the science pacing instead of waiting until after break when we would have been in a social studies unit. We gave it before the break right after the final science unit for the year and our scores showed that it was a good move. So we were really excited about that. Yeah, >> for >> we were not. No, we're >> She wasn't a priority school, but she was a priority for me when it came to science. >> We made it our own priority to focus on the science because we wanted to to really improve that score. Thank you, Jill. Thank you. >> What's your what's the thing

139you're not >> Oh. Oh, yeah. >> Thank you for reminding me. Uh, one of the things that Mark and I have talked about and that I also talked to Bonnie O Reagan about is our growth and continuing to focus on making sure that we are continuing to make growth. Even though we consistently have pretty high achievement and most of our students at least 50% or higher in third, fourth, and fifth or at advance in both reading and math on the SBA, continuing to make sure we're also looking at their individual growth scores. That's what keeps me up at night and thinking about individual students and the growth Good evening, proud principal of Julian Curtis, and I'm happy to report that we are on an upward academic trajectory as evidenced by our um increase in scores

140in all of our testing grades three, four, and five last year and also um in all of our content areas, science, ELA, and math. um as measured by our state assessments. Um to your question, what my hyperfocus, I attribute that growth to my hyperfocus which is around small group targeted instruction. And so um this year we were very strategic in how we used our win time um and we implemented some um instructional um cycles uh for win time using data uh for our students. And so that allowed us to really target their specific needs um according to whatever skills they were deficient in um those cycles lasted from 5 to 6 weeks. Um and so teachers closely monitor that using uh system um that we have implement that we also put in place around data

141collection. And so we use data trackers to really hone in and we put names to those numbers to make sure that we're being very personal and customizing that instruction for our students. Um, one of the things to your question, uh, Mrs. Behead, that we, uh, tried to, uh, that we did last year for fun and to, uh, help our students internalize that that learning, uh, was what we call a lunch and play. And so, we during, we just got creative around like the time that we had our students during the day. And during lunch, they while they ate, they also got into little groups um, or partnerships. And we also did some um, some practice around March and April. uh you doing some Jeopardy during our cafeteria time and some fun games um using our

142smartboard during that time uh that allow them to practice those skills um and standards that are assessed by our state exams. So just a a creative way to do something different um and help them to internalize and practice what they've learned throughout the year. Thank you. >> Good. You had is this right? the um the staff survey you went from 66 to 88. >> Thank you, Cody. Yes. Yes. Um so I'm happy to say that we that we experienced the most growth in the district as far as our staff survey. Um and so we're super proud about that and we're also proud about our parent survey that came back at 97%. And so um all of that is done in collaboration with all of our stakeholders. So um super proud about that. >> But what's

143the cheat code from going from dead last to first place? you're looking at it. >> Yeah, it's something. >> And I think also being attentive to, you know, just what what the culture is in the building, what teachers, you know, just what their their needs are, what our students, what their needs are. We I did a lot of like learning and seeking to understand last year and um meeting the needs as I went along. So, and uh I could not have done that by myself. Again, that was is a team effort and I I'm thankful for the assistant principal that I have with Miss Muchena that came on board this past year. Um, but also with the district support that I received from all of the coordinators and uh they are constant uh visible people

144in our building and so we're super grateful for that. >> Cool. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Dr. Beno, you're sitting in that corner over there. >> Thank you. >> You could sit over here. Q line Q line. >> Um I there are many points of pride. I think what um what we have at OG is an incredible partnership. And while we've spent a ton of time talking about scores in third, fourth, and fifth and and then other grades that that hit the papers, um it begins in preschool with a love of learning. and we have a robust preschool, kindergarten, first and second grade program that doesn't necessarily get the same recognition that perhaps the scores do um because they're not measured in the same way. So, I think that's important to say. Um our

145our celebratory program, we spent um all last year building something that we call the math lab. We took the great success that we had with close reading and brought that to math. So, our kindergarten through fifth graders go to the math lab every other week and do building thinking classroom activities with our math interventionist. Um, and it is incredible. It made tremendous difference. um Mark and what I lose sleep over and what Mark challenged me with at the um end of the year this year and I'm still trying to figure out how to capture is um how to measure grit because what we're working on as grit and productive struggle and um sitting with silence in your thinking and really spending time in that because kids don't spend enough time in silence and um spending

146enough time to think. And we measured grit anecdotally just in the amount of scrap paper we were using last year which was exponential compared to other years because kids were really um persevering through problem solving in a completely different way and we showed um great growth in math because of that. So thank you. >> Thank you. >> So at Glendville school past year we were very proud of our growth. I think you heard me speak um last time I was here about how we really focused on 1% changes um in a lot of different areas and really leveraging the um expertise of our teachers, the excellent instructional strategies, the curriculum resources that we have, the supports that we have from administrators and coordinators and really just tackling like little nibbles at a time and instead

147of making it overhaul, just sort of slowly chipping away. So for the past few years, all of our scores have continued to trend up um and increase that way. Uh a particular point of pride for us would be our fifth grade NGSS scores last year. Um we really had um a jump in our scores and I think a lot of that had to do with some of the strategies that we use that Tara referenced before. really having um common experiences using the IABS the questions getting kids more familiar with that and then really coming together as a community whether it was a grade level or a class together and have these experiences where we're um you know tackling these problems together thinking out loud modeling for one another and we did that a couple of

148times throughout the year um and that really I think moved the needle for our students to sort of help them understand what what the test's asking what it's expecting and then how to you know grab all your knowledge that you've gained over the past few years and and demonstrate it that way. When I think about what keeps me up at night is we need to move more than 1% now um each time. You know, I think that was great for a while, but I I am thinking about really how to guide our teachers into digging into data a little more deeply and um finding ways in which we can maximize growth for all of our students. So, not just the higher achievers, but those that are two years behind that still need to take the

149reading SBA and and how are we going to get them to sort of leaprog some skills and and still get them to where they need to be when they're um we still need to cover a lot of material and and help them gain those skills within that short seven-hour day. So, still working on it. Cody, >> questions? No, >> I'm gonna embarrass Daisy a little bit as she's coming up. Uh, a quick story. This summer at leadership, we have a two-day uh, summit, leadership summit, and DY came up to me and she said, "I've been waiting for you to show up at Hamilton Avenue School." And I had a perplexed look on my face and I said, "For what?" And she said, "Well, do you remember the year before you showed up and you weren't

150very happy with my scores and we had a very long meeting about that and I was waiting for you to come to congratulate me?" And I said, "You know what? You're right. And I have to figure out the right time to do it." publicly. Now, I would just like to say what Daisy was able to accomplish. >> Thank you. >> At Hamilton Avenue School this year, last year was something that is absolutely just I I marvel at it. And and what I'm most impressed with was that after we had that difficult conversation, she said, "I am I'm ready to accept any and all support that you're willing to provide me. I want to lead this staff. I want to lead them well and I understand where we are and where we need to go. And

151it's not just Daisy. All of the principles in this room feel that way. But Daisy in particular held me accountable and I just want to say thank you because she has done a great job at Hamilton Avenue School and it's about time that community sees the success that they're seeing. >> Yeah. Do I speak now? >> I don't even think I need to speak now, but >> thank you. That was so nice. I really appreciate it. Um it's been really incredible. Uh this is starting my fourth year and really to get us where we were this year. My obviously my point of pride is the incredible scores that we had this year. Um for the first time, you know, probably the best in in recent years, which is great. And I attribute it to starting

152way back three years ago when I started um with a very um unhappy group of um incredibly hardworking, talented teachers who really were unhappy. And we really I spent we spent the first full year really trying to understand what it was about these teachers who are all veteran teachers who had been in the district. I think that first year my um you know newest teacher had been there for nine years. So why why are these people unhappy and why are they staying here was kind of my question and I learned so so much. I just listened and learned so much about them and their passion for Hamilton Avenue School and the community and it was just wonderful. So after that first year uh we were certainly happy with making sure the teachers felt appreciated and

153happy to be at work. Um and then we challenged them in the second year and then even last year with okay now we're all in it together and what are we going to do to really um think about this growth mindset for these children. I mean in the beginning it was like our kids can't do it our kids can't do it. no one understands to now we uh really dug in and understood and took every single piece bit of support and help that would come our way to learn more about how our our learners learn and how we can support them and break down the material. So, it's um you know with within the framework of a UDL type of structure so all of our students can access curriculum. So, it's been really incredibly um

154you know, humbling and and wonderful and you know um I think their ability to having all those supports in class people were very used to just teaching on their own. But then when we pushed in all of our um math interventionists and our sped teachers and our literacy specialists and all of the support of the coordinators and everybody that came in to help us, it really um made the teachers have to become a little bit more vulnerable in their own learning and really being able to say, "I don't know how to teach that. Can you show me?" And a couple of them, there's um actually a great teacher featured in the district digest who's a fifth grade teacher. She would say, "I don't know how to teach this. Can you come in and teach this?

155show me how to do this, Mike, or whoever, and show me how to teach it better. So, and and I was vulnerable right along with them. And I said, "Show me how to be a better principal uh for an elementary school." My my career was always at at high school, but I wanted to learn every single second of the way and just wanted to know a little bit more every day about all the things that um you know, is part of an elementary school. So, it's been great. It's been a wonderful learning experience. And I keep saying to you know, all the coordinators and Mark and Dr. Jones and uh Dr. Carabilo when she was with me for a time last year. You know what else do I need to do? What do I need

156to do? What do I need to do? But the theme for next year, this school year is really let's maintain the great work that we've done. Um and we'll make some slight changes on some of the things that we did, but we really just want to stay the course and let these teachers, which I really appreciate what you had said earlier, let these teachers really get good at the craft that they that they've learned to do. Let's not introduce too many more new things. Let's keep doing the great stuff that we're doing so we can still um see our kids do as well as they did this year. Um keeping me up at night, I mean, we had great growth scores. I mean, how are we going to maintain those growth scores? But that's one

157thing, but also it's always kept me up at night is, you know, the curriculum is rigorous and there's a lot of components to it. And how do we fit it all in? It's really, really hard to fit it all in. Uh we've leveraged the the grants that we've been awarded um title one, title four through the granch alliance and we've really extended our school day which has made a huge difference for our kiddos. So we have some morning programming. We have some afterchool programming. We are extending our day even if it's not in the way that we had envisioned for it this year. We did it last year. It really worked for us. We have the data to show it. We'll do it again this year um in that in a similar uh fashion and

158and I'm sure we'll be able to demonstrate some great growth again. I'm just curious about this because the the proficiency scores went up so much like the you know was basically 42 43 35 to 67 60 64. >> Uh was that with the same team or did you change some of the team? >> Well, what we did last year for the first time is we departmentalized grades three through five and we hadn't done that before. So, we just started it last year for the first time. So, really like and we only have two sections per grade. So it's one like for example in fifth grade it's one teacher teaches both sections of ELA the other teaches both sections of math and it really was um it was and then we would pair up like for

159example the math teacher with a math interventionist so they're really it was really more about diving into the data and and doing giving the assessments looking at the results of the assessments making the strategic moves that they needed to in the groupings inviting kids in for extra help you know based on some of that data that really helped make sure that the kids got got the skills that they needed. And also um to Jen's point earlier about grit, you know, our kids, we would just we would administer the SBA in my first two years, it was just we set up a schedule, we would administer the tests. This year, we were really strategic about how we administered it and we used the IAB data like to look at how many stu like the stamina of

160our students, how many test questions they can do before they really needed a break. And we we we took a long period of time. Dr. Jones said to me, "Why do you need so many days to administer tests?" I said, "We are really using all of the data that we've collected to administer the tests in a way that makes the most sense for our students." So, it was it was a huge game, but the kids worked incredibly hard and we um because the curriculum moves so fast, we um gave them lots of time to shore up skills. The teachers big complaint was, "We just have to keep going. It goes so fast. It goes so fast." And we gave them grace and everybody in the room um worked with me and I said, "Do not

161teach new content on Fridays. You go slow, slow, slow, re, you know, shore up all the skills that the kids have missed. Make sure everyone's getting what they can." And they did the best they could with that um with the help of like all of the PD time that we had with the coordinators and with um outside consultants to really look at, you know, what we need to prioritize, what we can move a little faster on, and that all of those things really made a difference for us. And it was the same 10 teachers like >> it was for three, four, and five. It was six teachers. Two. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. Sorry. Yes. The same ones. >> Um, it was Well, we did a couple of shifts. It was similar. >> Yeah. >> Thanks.

162>> That's a hard act to follow, but luckily her student her students come to my school, so everything. So, um, so hi, I'm Suzanne from Western and I apologize when I have a chance to celebrate the hard work of my students and staff. I I have to take that opportunity. We are a priority school and as Dan said, we we come on a title one school as well. So, we, you know, we have a higher needs in our building and kids that really need the students and staff um extra. So, we're really proud of the growth we made um with the collaboration of all the coordinators. Um, our ELA scores are the highest they've been in over seven years. Our um science scores are the highest ever. Um we have the highest number of advanced

163kids ever. Um which is really great. Our math scores are the highest in over seven years. Um we have more kids in advance than we've ever before. We have um and what what works at our school is and what makes this happen is we are constantly looking at what we're doing, our practices, how we're using our staff and how can we use them more strategically and more effectively with our students and our teachers collaborating and coming up with ideas of thinking outside the box. So I think math Mike Reed can help with this because he's been helpful with us is we're constantly changing how we're supporting our kids. So, we have had classes at sent at Western to support our advanced kids so they can stay on the advanced track because that's really important for

164them. We have last year um did a pilot where we had all of our onle sixth graders have an extra time with their math teacher on a pattern. It was highly um successful. 200% increase in the onle kids m um reading reaching benchmark 600% increase in onle kids meeting advance. So, we expanded to all of our grades this year um because we felt like all of our students could need that. We have identified sixth grade students that we think are have really good potential to be in algebra and eighth grade. So, we created a class that gives them it's called a class and a half with the teacher to teach them the skills that they need to then be able to move into um algebra. Our our mindset at Western has always been will always

165be it's a growth mindset and all of our kids um can make that growth. But what keeps me up at night is how to reach every one of our kids. Um because with our students, it's not just we we know we always say, "Wow, I know they can do better." And there's so many factors with our students that get in the way. So one thing we do when it comes to testing is we have our teachers, they hand select the kids they're going to test in their room. We have kids hand select teachers that they'll test with because a lot of our kids need that connection with an adult, that relationship um to feel successful and feel like they're capable of achieving. Our kids own their scores. They talk with the teachers about them all

166the time. We celebrate growth in so many ways. Um but that does keep you up at night because I we know our kids have such capabilities and there's so many things that um that are a part of their life that makes it challenging. So it's how we reach every aspect of our students. But really proud of what we're doing. Um being a pride school has been a has been a blessing and we we're happy to continue this year and continue to see the growth at Western. Thank you. Well, right now we are not open to Matt students. So, it's been about three years, but in the past when we were at our highest, it was upwards of about 60 or 70. Um, and then what happened is the the the size and the needs of

167our building just kind of exploded. So, we um right now have not are not a matter. Yep. >> Thank you. I >> think we have two more to go. Unfortunately, Mr. Go couldn't be here tonight. >> Good evening, everybody. Um, so not to rain on everyone's parade, but what keeps me up at night is our test scores. Um, as you've probably already seen, we're the we're the black sheep. >> I like that you started with that instead of with the points of pride. >> Well, we have a lot of points of pride. I mean, we'll get into that, but I what keeps me up at night is how to how to be a better leader for our kids, for our staff. Um, I mean, it depends on the day what keeps me up. Some days

168it's how do I find the why? Like we're doing a lot of these things that are these amazing people are doing and they're just not hitting yet. And I keep going back to yet and that growth mindset. And coincidentally or ironically, our mascot is a phoenix. So we're going to rise and I want it to happen soon. Um because because my kids are only at school for 6 years or seven with prek and we need to do it now yesterday. So more than anything else that's what keeps me up. How do I become a better instructional leader? I want to have the answers to everything. And how do I help my teachers teach better? And how do I help my kids learn better? And being part of the solution every day. And that's what keeps

169me up all the time. And um I the original plan for today was a a prepared statement that I had here that Mark would have flipped out if I read the whole thing. But >> I think what you said was perfect. >> But any event, you know, there's there's there's a lot of things that keep me up. And I think we've got a very very hardworking staff and it keeps them up at night, too. And again, I want the answers and I want to help them find the answers. So, we are working very very hard on our systems in place. We've kind of totally revamped our PLC's so we're talking about data um and and actionable steps. Next, um, last year we we we started a PLC system. Um, and we we found that it

170wasn't effective. It wasn't efficient enough. We've tweaked that. Um, we are now, I think, having really good conversations about instruction tied to results, um, and how we can make instructional changes that will impact our scores. Uh we did to find a small point of pride we did have better growth numbers in a lot of our areas um across the ones the twos the threes and the fours in the SBA than we had had the previous years. So while the achievement numbers are ugly to be quite honest there were some good beautiful pockets of growth and I'm hoping that that growth translate into achievement this year. Um, but hope is not a strategy. So, what keeps me up at night again. Um, but not to bring everyone down for the whole night. Points of pride. We

171have an amazing community. We have kids that love coming to school. I want to say we have the best uh student belonging scores. Um, so we have kids that love being there, but now we got to got to complete that picture. Um, so that's going to keep me up tonight as well >> and tomorrow night. The next >> That was great. Thank you. Are you are you the only school that has custom ties? >> Uh I have one one custom tie that a teacher had made for me the first year. >> I like it. >> So I wear it to all these things. This >> hi. So I'm Kathleen Ramirez. I am the principal of North Manis School and Mrs. Beette. to answer your question. Um what we do to get kids excited about learning

172is um Mike helped us out with the building thinking classrooms um in math. We're fully entrenched in that, but we've also taken those ideas and spread it across other subject areas. That might not sound like fun to some people. Our kids love it. Um when you talk about the assured experiences and going to like Greenwich Botanical, our fifth graders just went there and they commented to the teachers that were there. They've never seen a group of children that were so inquisitive and had so many thoughts going on. If you want to see how it went, we have a beautiful bulletin board of all their work from the trip. Um, and our kids are thinkers and that is what our focus is. Our scores are are usually very good. Um, however, it's the growth that we

173really need to look at and the way we think we'll achieve that growth is to talk about making thinkers out of our kids. Um it's important to us um and it's important to our community that our kids are thinkers and they question and they wonder. Um we could not do any of that without the whole coordinator team with Mark at the helm. Um there I've never heard the word no from from any of them. Um we will call them for anything and they'll say when do you need it, what time, never ask the cost. They're like we got it, don't worry. So without that support we wouldn't be where we are today. Um the other part of our support is the team that I'm on. Um, when I read about Jill's scores this year, right

174away I called her and I was like, "Okay, what did you do?" And everyone's very open on our team and we share amongst ourselves. I never feel like I'm alone. Sometimes when you are the um I was described today on the security plan as I think like the head honcho or something. I'm like, "What is that?" Um, I'm not alone. I have a team around me. So, I'm really lucky. Um, and lastly, what keeps me up at night is that I think our job as elementary school principles, assistant principles, teachers, is that before we send our kids off to middle school, no offense, um, we need to find that each one of our kids has something because I think when you get to middle school, you need to have a something. Whether it be an

175instrument, you're an artist, um, your favorite subject is math, you have to have something to hang on to when you go into middle school. And sometimes it just gets a little more difficult. So, that's what keeps me up at night. However, what gets me to go back to sleep is the North Miamiis team is an amazing team. Starting with our assistant principal, Abby Anders, um, and down to every teacher, every parah, our cafeteria monitors, our cooks, everyone's on the same team, and our priority is always our kids. Thank you so much. I I realize and we can't certainly do this for everyone, but I I realize that I miss Lucy Reco of course and we have great like I miss Christina, I miss Jeffrey, I missed all I miss foreign language, we miss social studies.

176Um we miss David, I miss Dana, I miss Bonnie. Um I think and I'm sorry I don't know your two names otherwise I feel like I would have called everybody else out. Um, and so I don't think we could have probably have every person come up right tonight, but um, this was great and I I think it was Thank you for answering both the the good and the bad, the ying and the yang. And it was perfect. So um, anything else on this topic or perfect, right, Mark? You want to do more? >> No, I think the bottom line is this. You know, I learned a long time ago from my mentor who was the former principal of Julian Curtis School, nationally distinguished principal Nancy Carbone, who said to me early on, she said, "You

177know, if you want to really be an effective leader, make sure you turn around once in a while and make sure people are actually following you. I don't need to turn around. I know they're behind me. They're relentless. They're passionate. They're powerful. And they have a lot of pride in what they do. And I think it shows. And so, I'm glad they're all here tonight. Thank you all for being here tonight and uh we look forward to continued success. I know it's coming. I asked for patience a couple years ago because I saw threads of success, but now I think those threads are being woven into into really strong fabric. So, um thank you for your time tonight, your support. Thank you for the hard questions. I always appreciate it and I wish Mike was

178here because it it's not it's not it's not as fun to to to debate through a surrogate, but you did a nice job and and and and happy to have that debate anytime because it's an important one because you know the other thing is this. We have a lot of teachers that listen and I don't want any of our teachers to think that we've put materials in front of them that they should be concerned about. I would never do that. No one here in this room would do that. I understand your point about the research. Um, it's something we can talk about, I think, and probably it requires more time. But what I do know is that what we have in our classrooms right now and the the the the responsiveness to to what kids

179are learning, um, it might not be scientific enough for you. But when you put materials in front of teachers and those teachers use those materials to teach and we get results and success builds upon success, I have to think that sooner or later you can feel confident that it was the right choice. So >> I'll just make a plug that if anyone is worried about what they're getting in front of them, they can email me and I always protect my sources. So >> fair enough. But I think the headline should be awesome results and we have to do a better job of communicating it. I know we sent out like a thousand notes, but for some reason we need to like >> let our performance be the story. >> Yeah, I think I think we

180really have to get that out in the newspaper a lot this weekend because it's pretty remarkable and we should celebrate it. >> It's a privilege to be here. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> You can all go home. I actually think I >> Yeah. My god, you must be so tired. I know you don't want to stay for buses. I'm kidding. >> I'd argue you should go, but >> it's Tony. She'll freeze your elf. I didn't even do it. >> Exactly. >> Thank you. Thank you Lucy and Christina for your results too. Talk to them. >> Good night. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> That was the assistant principal at New Lebanon. >> And the next was Clarabel, the assistant principal at JC. >> Okay. That's not my fault for

181kids. >> Clarel was Clarel was um new last year like after the year had already started. She did an interim and then she got the full job. Yeah. >> Got it. >> Just to >> Okay. All right. You guys are going to keep going. Okay. Um CMS building committee plan completion review. You're up, Miss Cen. But this isn't an action item. This is just >> Laura. The people at home haven't heard anything you've said. If would you mind press the button and start over? I'm sorry. >> Let me get my email up so I can >> He hasn't said anything. >> Okay. So, um, this is just a preview for the board. Um, the CMS building committee will once again be filing a plan completion review with the state. This one is for furniture, fixtures,

182and equipment and technology. Um it is a um requirement for our reimbursement process and um the building committee will be or is expected to vote on October 14th. The packet of information will then come to all of you. It's about 300 pages. So I wanted to let you know 300 pages would be coming in the coming weeks and um that is all I wanted to uh put you all on notice about. There will be an executive summary so you are not expected to look at indepth um architectural information. It's been vetted by our professionals and um that is your preview. >> Okay. Okay. So, it'll be an action item on October 23rd probably. >> Correct. >> Okay. Great. Transportation legislation. >> Just going to pass this down here. Okay. Thank you. So I'm starting with

183that we have two transportation discussions. The first one has to do with the legislation um and how it works for Greenwich Public Schools. So this year well let me just say I tried to underline for you the key part. So when we as you know the board is aware we are required to provide transportation for public and private schools. Um but we for private schools they are supposed to be a majority of their students who live in Connecticut and um given that we have a school that is not meeting that 50%. And after we've just gone through the budget that we've gone through and we have said that we are paying for what's mandated contractual, we don't have flexibility to spend $300,000 when we're not required to by law. And it is Eagle Hill. And

184I know Ralph Mayo will remember this from 2019. And I watched that as I was transitioning in that that year. And so I've made it a point to meet with them, you know, every year just to make sure that they were hitting that. They did let me know at the end of like midway through last year. It was too late to go and pull buses that they hadn't hit that level. So I set up an appointment with their new head of school at Eagle Hill. Um had a meeting and I said, "Now you're not at 50%. Not going to pull the busing right now." because it was like by the time I found out it was very late in the spring, but you have to be there by September. I mean, that is what the

185law says. And as you know, they graduate eighth graders. They have new kids coming in. They control their enrollment. They're a private school. Um, and so I reached out again before October 1 and just said, "I just want to make sure you're going to be there. You're going to hit the target." Um, and then they set up a quick meeting. And when we met it's like no probably not and I said look I have no idea like you know how are we going to move forward but given the budget that we've had and you're not by law we're not required and we're talking about you know it's a couple of teachers for us our operating budget is very very tight. Um and so on October one they did not hit that target. Um, and you

186know, I know the head of the school talked to their board of directors and I said, "It doesn't mean you can't have transportation. You know, we can connect them with Dco. They just need to pay for it." Um, so if they want to have transportation, it just comes out of their budget and not ours. So my thinking is unless this board is has a different frame of thought that we just can't afford to pay $300,000 when we're not required to by law, which means we would give them a one-month notice. So they have about they have about 35 I think or 40 kids that take the bus. Um and then it would end in November. So that's why it's tied to the legislation and what we're required to do. And I just want the board

187to be aware. That's my understanding is what we should be doing. >> I think an easy thought experiment is if we currently did not provide for it like just imagine that uh you know we started the year not providing for it. there's zero chance we'd be coming forward and saying, you know, I think the incremental $300,000 in our budget to maximize student outcomes for the kids in our school system. We should spend it on this. We're not required to do it. If we're no longer required to do it, I don't think it makes sense when you think about marginal return on dollars. >> Uh, go ahead, Lauren. I was going to say I 100% agree. And I mean, I think that the the law is clear, right? I mean, we're obviously paying for people that

188are in New York. I'd assume and that's probably not how our tax base should be allocated. So, I think it's, you know, we have to follow the law here and you've given them a fair warning. I know that's something we've discussed in the past, but I I see no reason to um not give them one month's notice. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I was disappointed because I feel like they they had the control they do control their enrollment and I feel like that's even a little different than back in 2019 because I'm not sure before that that we were as aware as a community about this whole 50% um and and they've been very aware I mean for the last seven years and that's why I met with them last spring they had time to fix

189it and I think they're just banking on they have fewer in student enrollment this year and she said they're trying to be more selective about which kids they enroll, which okay, fair enough. It's their program. Run it the way you want, but you also know the repercussions of not meeting the standard. >> So, are we talking about not busing the taxpayers children who go to Eagle Hill? cuz I could see a I could see how uh how people might feel about that. >> If you want to feel better about it, we don't there's no real at least I can't figure out a logical or moral difference between calling up Ry Country Day and saying, "Hey, we know there are kids that go to your school that are from Greenwich. Uh we want to give you

19010% of your busing budget." And we could go around and do that for there's lots of schools that taxpayers kids go to. uh we would never consider paying for any part of their transportation budget. Nor would we for the private schools in town. We don't there's lots of critical things at private schools. Kids have to eat lunch every day. We don't say, "Well, we'll pay your lunch thing." It's it's sort of an arbitrary thing that the state like all the things the state forces on us uh that we wouldn't otherwise do. And there's no reason, especially if we're thinking about like our our test on every dollar we spend is is this the best marginal dollar spent for student outcomes? And there's just better things for us to spend money on. >> Yeah. I think

191also just I'm struck by that you're saying basically we're talking about $10,000 per kit to provide a bus. That's crazy. I mean, if I could take $10,000 and spend it on eat a student that Yeah. That's not what I would spend it on, >> Jen. >> But this can change from year to year based on what date. So if we took it um if we stopped transportation as of you know the with the grace period when would it always have to be a yeartoyear or if students um come midyear does that flip us back to then having to provide busing too like how would that >> based on their one just like we have an October account, they have a report that they have to file as well >> and that would cover the whole

192year then. So there could not be a flipping back and forth of >> and really because they didn't meet it last year, you know, I could have already have canceled it, but I I really thought when I met with her last spring, put them on notice, let them know that they would actually get it fixed. And I'm I'm in and willfully did not fix it. It's not like they forgot or they weren't aware. I mean, she said they willfully, you know, that her parents will probably uh go ballistic and, you know, they're taxpayers. She said some of the things that Laura just said and and we have a good relationship. So, I don't this is not an issue with the head of school, but I just said, you know, we're we don't have the luxury

193of paying for paying for 300 and we're not saying you don't get transportation. We're saying you have to pay for it. So, I'm sure Datco would continue the two buses and contract with them and they can pay for it, >> right? >> And it was a very nice professional courtesy thing to handle it the way you did. So, I don't think we need to feel guilty about anything. >> I agree. Do you need a sense of the meeting or this is fine? >> I I mean, I'm okay. I'm what I'm hearing. I think the board understands why we're in this situation. >> Agreed. >> Okay. Now, our buses. Yes. >> Come forward, Mr. Brandon the transportation man and I did while he's coming up send you the document uh late today if you haven't seen

194that that had all bunch a whole listing of different places and I just wanted you to be aware of that. >> So to date we have we have looked at uh 37 different properties. Uh we still have about five in play, but the list you have just shows you the the breadth and the depth. Uh any any excuse me, any property somebody mentions, we put on the list, we chase it down. Uh even uh m we get multiple ones like the stop and shop in Stanford. Everyone recommends that to us and we can only ask so many times. So we've asked twice uh uh but they they've made their own business decision. But we continue to we recognize all of the issues. Uh Dr. Jones and I speak uh more than daily on this. So,

195it's it's a constant conversation we have on this issue. Uh so, that's the macro view of we're still struggling to find a permanent home on where we're uh uh storing the buses and we're also currently now working at how do we just spread the buses out a little bit more to have uh rather than this this concentration that's occurring at at Western. So, we're looking at a couple options now, but I don't want to say those options because we're we're really trying to do our due diligence on where does that work. Uh, we're trying to minimize the impact of the staff parking and also these are big buses. So, it's it's not just you can't just park it anywhere. You they they have to figure out how to get in, get out safely and at

196the same time minimize the staffing disruption at the schools. >> I think it's worth noting just for there's anyone still listening to take a step back. We're in this situation, right? because of the fact that we don't have a place to park our buses and First Student had sort of and other companies sort of leveraged that against us, right? And so we finally made a decision that we could save a couple million dollars, right, by saying that we could actually handle parking our buses. We're now in a little bit of a predicament because we're searching for those places. But I still think it was a great decision because again we've saved a couple million dollars by um sort of moving to Datco. Um but I think the best thing is you're right and I know

197the other challenge is you know some people have said why can't you have like three buses here and three buses there and three buses here and the issue then becomes is that you have to literally like they stay there all the time and then you have to hand out the keys right every morning. So to sort of break them up into 20 different places is less than ideal. Is that the right assessment or no? >> No. Absolutely. It puts an an additional hardship on DACO as a as a check-in and they have their key system and the like. We're working with them on how do we how can we overcome some of those issues. Uh the other one is you brought up is I think it's worth mentioning is a lot of church properties are

198have said because they're they have low utilization uh Monday through Saturday. Uh the difficulty what we have though is the Sunday becomes a a tremendous musical chair exercise. We want we we were we were game that how would that look and it became significant because where do you then park the buses Friday night? So uh so the church can use their facility on Sunday and then pick it up on Monday then park again on the bus on on Monday. It just became a incredibly logistical challenge. We we've looked at if if if you know of an address, I'll be I'd love to take it. So >> very engineering. You should give it a pass. >> You should find some of the superbrain children at Greenwich High School and give this to them as like a

199senior project. It's like quite the system business application thing. I joke with one person that we should do adopt a bus program where [Music] >> I think from a long-term perspective would it be ideal for us to have a location like a permanent bus depot? I mean I think it would give us a lot of leverage right with negotiating bus contracts and also have efficiencies in terms of how we use the buses, how we send the buses out like bus routing 100% and that's this right now is is a temporary uh problem we're having. But I think it it's definitely setting us up setting us up for the long term. We're in a much better position when we do go out to bid. We can competitively bid it. Uh this has always been the biggest

200constraint is the geography and when the when the bus companies come in they lock it up long term. So then uh another vendor says well I have no home so I can't bid on it. That's not that's not an open competitive uh pricing. So once we solve for this we're set we'll have our own agency. We'll have we'll be the lease holder or if it's a purchase we'll be we'll be the owner of the property. Then we can say who wants to come in and bid bid. We have the property. We just need the the the assets and the drivers. >> What is the um what is the constraint we have from a distance to town and how much actual space do you need? >> It we're looking when people say, "Oh, we need like

201an an acre, acre and a half, two acres." Yeah. When some we gave us somebody gave us, "Oh, here's an acre." Like it just didn't work because there's other constraints. So I think we're that's sort of like the the the parcel size. The distance from the town >> parcel size 1 to two acres is kind of the Okay. >> Yeah. Just uh the distance from the town uh the difficulty we have is uh the you want to be on the right side of Stamford. Uh if you're too far then you're on 95 and then you're paying for that that dead head time where they're when they after they per perform the AM service and then they have to get you in the PM service. they have to train. They they're generally going to be on

20295 if you're further out. Like we were looking at a property on on exit 9. We were then looking at the traffic patterns whether or not that would that would work in the morning. We I think the when the buses roll at 6:00 a.m. they they should beat the the rush that occurs on 95 at exit 9. But then how does that look in the afternoon? Uh when after they they perform the service, they're going to be stuck in the 3:30 4:00 traffic back to exit 9. So that's that's so we don't have the exact oh you need two two miles three miles. The difficulty is you want them as close as possible because you're you're paying for that service but also when you have that inclement weather or you have to have an early

203dismissal that you're not planning for you need to have a response time that is that is prudent. >> Okay. So any questions? I think the the best we can I I like the idea of reducing the number of buses at Western obviously and I think to the extent that we could maybe you know deploy them somewhat more equitably around town that would be helpful. >> I hear you >> thoughts. >> Does Parkway have room? Yes, >> we we there's a couple there. Now, the difficulty at Parkway is just we have the most the buses that make the most sense based on their route up there. Again, the geography is so uh just isn't it would actually add more time to the routes that we have. We are just as you brought that up, we're exploring

204today there by contract we have to have so many spares and their spares are being currently housed uh at Western. So, we're saying why do we need to lack of a better word mothball them at Western? you can lock all them a certain number at parkway if you need to then use the spare we there's a plan to get there so we're we have some opportunities there >> I no longer use the word fun on the front but we have a contract there was a time where we weren't sure we were going to have a >> yes it's been a long >> I mean not to belabor this too much further but like we've really looked at all the municipal parking lots because I feel like I drive around town there are a lot of

205empty municipal parking lots and I know some of them are full like you were saying with the Eastern Garden Civic Center. I appreciate that it gets busier on Saturdays and Sundays but it is so empty during the week and and I know that we have to solve for seven days but are there I mean is Island Beach you know parking open or can we do some at Holly Hill? Has has that conversation happened? mult multiple times I will say island beach parking lot the town is we worked out an agreement where the now uh simply because where the most of the buses are at western the drivers their personal vehicles are parked at the island beach they're shuttled to western to do the driving so we are using that because it's not just the busing

206you also need to figure out where do the all the bus driver personal vehicles park so we are using island beach as our bus driver's personal um parking spot and then they're shuttled to western to provide the the driving service uh and we're every I've had multiple conversations with uh Joseph Swano the parks and rec director he as as much as I would love him to say give us more he's he's done I think as much as he can s at the same time to try to balance his operational needs so the ice rink we we were using that property for all the uh private all the employee parking for the for deco and then when ice when the ice rink became operational that started having impact and we came out an agreement where we

207could use uh 15 spots and then still they could maintain their their facility operations. The same thing at the at the civic center as well. So, we're we're doing what we can. I know we all wish we could do more. >> You asked and I know it's been asked and answered, but just for everyone else, Holly Hill, what was the the dump? >> The transfer station. >> Sorry. Why can't we >> why can't we transfer >> what >> the amount of commercial vehicles that that that access that facility in the back and then is it is you you can look at it and go look at all the space it's used for the debris whether or not it's construction debris uh yard waste debris it's it becomes an incredibly compact site and it's just simply

208not not options. I've had conversations multiple times with public works on this as well. I think if the maybe one obstacle is people don't want to have yellow buses in their yard because they're so noticeable. If we painted all the buses camouflage, then people might be more open. >> I'll chase that one down. >> Um, you have something else on that or no? Now, we mentioned behind behind the high, we we've looked at that as well, and they had an extraordinary price of $100 per bus, per space per day. >> Okay. >> I ran out of commas when I ran when I did the math on what that would cost. >> How about the Acme Route One? That's closed. >> Yeah. >> Also, also >> small. >> Too small. Too small. Yeah. >> Okay, that's

209fair. Maybe Eagle Hill will give you some space. >> Oh boy. But I'm bum. Um, okay. I think we've we've beaten this one to death. Thank you so much for trying to more equitably dispense the buses. >> Definitely hear your >> Okay. Um, all right. Program adjustments fiscal year 2017. Dr. Jones, thank you. >> Give me two or three. >> Thank you. Okay. So, this item is an outgrowth again of um the board and wanting to on this academic evening be able to talk about some programmatic aspects that came up at the end of last year. Some of them have come up more recently. Um, as you know, even Mike, who's not here tonight, wrote an op-ed about looking at those items from last year. Um, and then Cody, I know in the finance committee,

210we've talked a lot about um, some of these items as well. But so, just going back to again some of the items that came up last year to talk about them from a curriculum programmatic standpoint, not thinking about the finance. Would that be correct, Miss Stow? Um, so on the first one, it's it's just it's on here to discuss the ALP science um in grades three through five. Um, we talked about it, you know, obviously last spring when we were in the middle of all the crazy budget stuff. Um, but generally our general education classroom staff um teach the same curriculum that you get when you go to ALP, which is a little different than you heard tonight, for instance, like in math. Um, and we do feel like, you know, when they're discussing phenomena

211and you have a lot of students engaging with one another that we believe our results could be equally as strong, if not stronger, by having more students that are collaborating together. And again, you there's a little paragraph there to help you kind of put that in context. The other interesting thing was just that when we look at like ELA and math, uh, every we're at a level four on everything. um when we look at science, we're not u we're three and four. And so, you know, is that because you have outgroups that are very small and don't get the level of collaboration that you could get if you were actually in a classroom environment. Um so, I'll leave it there and then you can ask questions about that. And I have a couple extra copies.

212Would you guys like a copy while you're s >> Yes. >> Um should we should we start asking questions as we go? Is that okay? Does that work for you guys? Um, I'm happy. Do you want to go? I'm happy to go first or Okay. I mean, we all know that I'm like the world's biggest ALP supporter, but um, so I know that this has been on the docket before. Um, >> but I do have to say that I did notice in the data that there was a little bit of a difference. Um, and so I'm willing to hear a little bit more about this because um, look, Alp Science, I think I have kids in it, not in it. It's it's kind of come back and forth sort of throughout the course of the,

213you know, 18 years or whatever that I've been in the system. And um, I now think we do need to look at the data and if and I was a little concerned too tonight that in spite of I don't know, you're right. It was it was um, what's the word I'm looking for? um not perverse. My god, what's the mathematical term? And one one's going the opposite way. Like obviously it's way too late. Um that you know that you're teaching less and you're still getting good reasons there. >> Thank you. Negatively correlated is the word I'm looking for. Um but you know it it's a little strange. So if we if we were able to group them right and I guess have all general education science together are you suggesting they actually could spend more

214time on science or no? >> Tara I'm going to lean on there they stayed to help us if you had difficult questions. Um, I think what I can say in speaking to that is the the way that ALP is structured as a pullout model in science being in a 30 minute block. Sometimes that could mean you have 30 minutes of lunch before it, 30 minutes of specials after it. So, it limits a teacher's ability to be able to find other time to pick up additional instructional minutes like capture some of those magic minutes. Mark always talks them talks about them as if ALP and I'm not saying I'm a proponent one way or the other. What I'm saying is logistically from a principal perspective when you're scheduling ALP for all or when you're scheduling science

215with all students in the same space and you're not limited by 12 students leaving your room and then you just have these six students left in your room or whatever whatever that breakdown is. You can lean on wind time to do some science support. You can lean on the 10 minutes that you ended early after a math lesson. You can you can pick up time because you have your whole group of students with you and you can instruct in that model >> with um >> the what was the percent that aren't uh that what's the percent that are meeting level four for science in grades three to five and the outcome? >> Oh, I just have those. computer. >> Yeah. >> Sorry. I just I have the graph, but it doesn't have the numbers on

216it, unfortunately, because there's a lot of words on it. Just pull up the data spreadsheet. >> While he's pulling that up, Sophia, do you want to ask your question if it's a quality change or >> we need data, though? >> Um, so I guess I've been a supporter of of AL primarily because I like the idea of having um like more instructors and smaller class size and working in smaller groups. And I think it facilitates that just with what you're describing if you have 18 students and then 12 of them go with one teacher and six of them are left behind like you know you have that more of that attention. But I frankly having seen my kids go through and all of their friends go through I don't feel like there's a strong predictor

217when you're looking at someone in third grade and saying oh they're really talented science student and these other kids are not. I don't I don't really subscribe to that. Right. I think it's perhaps a bit random who ends up in science and who doesn't to be frank um when they're very very young. So if you think like if the educators think that you could provide a just as good or stronger science education to all the students, I would be in favor of it. You know, the only So I'm just curious. So you think you're losing something if you got rid of out because you wouldn't have as much pushing in or would you sort of support a model where you have some instead of pulling kids out of the classroom you have maybe more science

218support coming into the classroom so there you still have kind of that additional teaching staff supporting the students but everyone is together. I don't know if I'm asking that clearly enough, but >> no, I I understand your question and what I can say from a a curriculum and a professional learning perspective is that if all students were in one room, we could provide a rigorous curriculum that would meet the needs of all students. We have the extension and the enrichment activities that our current ALP science students engage in. They're available to all teachers right now at baseline. And what I'm saying is that if all students were in one room, we could help our classroom teachers to ensure they meet the needs of all of those students. What I do know to be true is

219that the most rigorous discussions happen when we have the most points of view in a room. And when we have high exceptional learners who uh leaning on sort of what you said, well, we do have assessments that put students into ALP, then we have a a strong portfolio that we review of student work and student behavior and feedback from their teachers, their administrators when students are placed into ALP at our building advisory committee meetings, which happen for second graders entering into third grade science. So we do look at their math scores, we look at their ELA scores, and generally we're looking at students who are highly exceeding in both of those areas. And they also take a science content assessment. So they are showing a propensity towards science interest and towards science achievement. That being

220said, with all students in one room, we are elevating the relative rigor of conversation to support all learners in that classroom. When you have curious students, working with students who maybe are less curious, we often see inspiration and innovation in those conversations. I I don't mean to like I wasn't meaning to denigrate your testing no that you have in place. I guess my understanding was we don't see a strong correlation between the students who participate in ALP in elementary school and then what they metriculate into in high school necessarily compared to other students but I might be wrong about that or maybe we don't have sufficient data to be able to say that. I >> I believe that data is is has been is available and we've talked about it a bit before. What I

221will tell you is a student who is in ALP science in third grade generally speaking is in ALP science in third and fourth and then into fifth and generally will end up in advanced science in sixth. Many of our advanced science students by the time they hit eighth grade often end up in an honors biology track. Not all students and it's not for all students. That being said, many of our onle eighth grade students also end up in honors biology track. And what you'll see in the data in fifth grade and the data in eighth grade is you'll see that we have many students in fifth grade on level scoring a four on the NGSS assessment who are not in ALP and we have some out students scoring a three on the NGSS assessment. I'll

222remind you that that test is one test covering three years of content and we never know what the standards going to be. It could be a question about a mountain or a question about a beach and it could be based on students background etc. I'll be very proud of our assessment scores because they're really really strong. But that being said, it's one test and it's one day. It's not every year that we're seeing growth. We're matching cohorts after four years, right? Fifth grade and then not again until they hit it in eighth grade. Um so I I think you take the test as one data point and as one indication of successful programming. I think when we look at our students in our classrooms, we know that they do really well in an out classroom

223and in a gened science classroom. And whatever the board or the community decides is going to be their priority, we as a district are prepped and able to implement it to support all learners and all staff implementing the curriculum. >> What was the percent that >> level four in grade five? I believe you're speaking to right now because that's the only testing year is we have 87%. >> Is one way to interpret that is it just I'm looking at the comment here that we had you know compared to ELA and math where 100% are meeting level four. Does it just mean that we're letting too many kids into that program? >> No. What I would say is that we have the level of assessments available to us in science to predict student successment on that

224assessment is less. When we look at grades three and four SBA, we have those as indicators of student success at grade 5 SBA because they've taken that test for two years. Grade five science is the first time our students get to take that test. So, we don't know. We don't have a lot of predictive indicators of success. What we do know is our students take the NWEA science as a barometer for achievement into science ALP. It's not a perfect match to the Connecticut NGSS test. There are stronger correlations to the SBA and ELA and math than there are to the NGSS just because the NGSS has been around for four years less than the SBA. So, we're just still I wouldn't say in infancy. We've been taking it for five years now. That being said,

225it it's a different assessment. it's correlated differently to our predictive indicators of success. I think that a a three in fifth grade the first time you take the test is still a a point of pride for students who match that even in an ALP classroom and the students who are getting a four in an on-level classroom. It doesn't mean that they would need advanced programming in an ALP classroom. It's one test and we look at a whole bunch of student the body of our student um more holistically than just the assessment. So is the way to interpret that that we have less confidence in the grade uh is it second grade right or is third grade where this starts >> for science >> they're tested in second for admittance in third >> and and do

226we feel less good about our ability to predict if they'll be if ALP's the right fit for them for the science placement for a third grader versus the math or >> I think that's I would say that's an oversimplification and you're comparing apples and oranges from the entrance assessment in science to the performance assessment in fifth grade. I would say that when we look at like what what are we looking at for the NGSS? Are we trying to figure out is our curriculum good? Is our programming good? Is our instruction good? Are our students meeting proficiency? I think the only thing we can say for sure is that they're meeting proficiency on a state exam. But how we determine the barometer of success of our ALP programming can't just be on that singular assessment. So,

227I don't know that I I'd be confident answering that question. So, literally, >> what about um the uh how I get it's a little loose, right? Determining if a kid should be in the AL program. It's like you look at a bunch of different factors. Yeah, we have a protocol and we have what's called a building advisory committee meeting and students take a battery of assessments and then we meet with their teachers and their administrators as well as a academic team coordinator and we determine who's in the top 10% of each school and then we have more holistic conversations and we consider exceptionalities. We consider social profiles. We consider something that may not show up on the test. The kid took seven hours to took the test. The kid did the test in 20 minutes.

228So, we need to really look at this again. and we consider a whole profile before determining whether or not students enter and we look at them for math, ELA, and science separately. So, I wouldn't say it's loose. I'd say it's a very strong protocol, but it's not a cut score and it's not one-sizefitsall. We don't gatekeep students from ELP. We consider the entire student and the whole school population to serve students who need advanced programming to meet success. I will >> and I'm trying to be B I'm in so Mike Kim Mark feel >> I oh man if on another day the social profiles comment I would love to double click on but uh what about um are parents are allowed to appeal if their kid is not in in the program. >> Yes and

229parent um parents also fill out a a survey where they ask for students to be assessed for ALP. So, we have a a large catchment system for finding students who require advanced programming. We have district level screeners. We have teacher uh teacher testing forms. If a teacher would like to bring a student forward, even though they don't show up on a district screening test, or if a parent would like to bring a student forward, we have the ability for students to enter that conversation one of three ways. Their test, their teacher, or their parent. And then their parent feedback is included in that conversation that we have in the building advisory committee meeting. Do we have so we have test score we've had a consistent test or tests that we have give to kids to

230evaluate whether they get into ALP for science? >> Uh yes. >> Do we have for the last three years? >> Yes. >> If you looked at the average scores of those tests are they rising, falling, staying the same just in terms of where the what what criteria what the criteria is for getting in? >> I'd want Bonnie to answer that with concrete data, but I can get back to you on it. What about uh what percent of the kids that get into ALP are from parents appealing uh a decision? >> I would want Bonnie to chime in on that as well. And I think that it's different based on a myriad of factors including the size of the cohorts in each building >> because the thing I'm getting at and what I'm really interested in

231is if we're evaluating the ALP science program in grades 3 to five. I feel like a a key question like and and I got going on this just because of this line about you know it's like it's working in ELA and math because anything any justification to eliminate it would have to not be uh it shouldn't be a rationale that would apply to ELA ELA and math. So if we say like >> we should get rid of it because it'll make the average, you know, uh conversation in the general classroom like higher level and smarter, it's like well that would apply to the other ones. So it needs to be unique to science. And I think one of the things that is hard to figure out um and which we want to be careful about

232is um if we say oh our science results aren't as good to then just point at ALP science and say it must be because of this as opposed to you know maybe maybe we've degraded the program by letting too many kids in. I have no idea. That's just one thought that came to mind when I saw the 100% thing. Uh maybe it's because it's kind of insane that we only do 15 minutes a day and some of us have tried really hard to move gym time to science time in the last year or two, but it it could be other things. Um that um >> yeah, we haven't done a root cause analysis on that. >> Yeah. >> But so so I just bring that up because it's a um uh it's a it's one

233where I guess the information any incremental data will be really helpful for figuring that out. And I think one important piece that is not in this write up but is important to clarify is that the ALP and again I do not have an opinion on either way. I I work at the discretion of the district and the decision that the board makes. It is important to know that the ALP science curriculum is an enrichment model not an acceleration model. Something like math once a student is in third grade they are accelerating beyond the gened classroom student. And if they were out of ALP, they would then not have a access point to gened curriculum in their classroom. That is not true for science because we cover the same standards at the same time in GenEd

234ALP as we do in ALP science as we do in GenEd science. I think that's an important >> foundation. It's a very important >> well and and I think it's important to remind everyone that you know when we talk about our AL program yes we have an advanced learning program but in second grade again it's an enrichment program and we don't have a talented and gifted program in the Greenwich public schools because if if we did there would be much fewer students that would actually qualify for a true talented and gifted program and if we didn't have local norms uh the the size of the um outcl classes would be very different in each of our schools. So, um it's a complex, um offering that we kind of navigate carefully and yeah, there are parents

235who advocate for their kids to be in the program even though the scores are not representative of what we would expect of a typical student entering into the program. And sometimes they're successful and they stay and sometimes they're not. and we enter into conversations with the parents about uh migrating them back to the general ed setting where it's mo more appropriate uh paced cl uh class for the student. You know what when I was a principal I used to say this to parents all the time the last thing you want to do is turn your child off to the love of learning any subject area. And if you push too hard sometimes you will turn away a student from having that love for science or math or reading. But what you don't also want to

236do is miss opportunities where there are students who maybe the number doesn't correlate with their ability. And so it's not an exact science at all the way that we we operate the EL program. >> Did Sorry, Sophie or I know Sophie and Lauren have questions. Yes, I'll let them go. Sophie, you want to go and then Laura? Yeah. Actually, just I'm going back to when you were talking about the sort of flexibility that when you're teaching science in the regular classroom, right, that you can kind of run into when wins time or whatever time. Um, and I see that that that could be beneficial. I guess while you were talking I see the flip side of it is if you are a science teacher coming in and pulling kids out and teaching them a science

237lesson and you're like sequestering them away from all of the distractions of being in your regular home room classroom. I you know I'm curious maybe you actually achieve more in terms of teaching the science curriculum because if you're in the regular classroom and you're the regular teacher somebody would be like well I know we're doing science right now but like I really didn't understand the math so can you just explain that or you know like I can see there would be a lot more disruptions to teaching the curriculum and I don't know how much of the success that we see with the AL science program if any could be attributed to the fact that like they're being pulled aside and having this quiet time of very carefully focusing on science, delivering science curriculum, and the

238kids who are not being pulled out don't have the benefit of that. >> I think we just have to be really careful. We're kind of creeping into the area of speculation because we we just don't know. >> So, is the suggestion here to push in to the classroom for ALP science and stop pulling out? I'm confused about the object. >> So, so you wouldn't have ALP specific teachers teaching science anymore. The responsibility would go back to the general education teacher. So, science would be everyone in their general education classroom. >> Similar to that of social studies, which currently happens during that block on a we we do like six weeks of science, six weeks of social studies back and forth. >> So, this is really a reconsideration of offering an ALP science >> science. Yes,

239>> it would be a withdrawal of offering, >> right? >> That's no, it's a very big topic. Um, go ahead. >> The the um what about uh you're talking about the experience of um going to parents and saying, "Hey, maybe this isn't right." is what percent of the time uh does a parent say I want my kid in ALP and we say no or they're in ALP and they're uh you know yeartoyear removed from it because they're not able to be at the standards for it or whatever. Is that a very rare occurrence or is that uh you know more common? I'm just if you don't have the data just a gut feeling. Uh, I would say that our teachers do an excellent job of meeting all students where they are and progressing them through

240their ability to grow. That being said, I think um, anytime a parent conversation is warranted for a change of placement, it's done delicately and carefully and with administrator support, Bonnie support, etc. I'm sure Bonnie has statistics on that, but I won't pontificate as to what if it's 1%, if it's 10%. I I I won't go there. I will say Bonnie definitely has a withdrawal uh suggested removal kind of situation statistic that she can pull up over the past few years. Um but but any conversation I have been a part of in the past 5 years and having this position it's a very careful consideration. It's a casebyase basis and our teachers do a phenomenal job of meeting the needs of students whether the student got in because they were screened in on on a GPS

241screener or their parent appealed a process. Our teachers go above and beyond to support every student in all classrooms including the out pull out. >> Can I Yeah, let me if I because I I imagine we could spend a lot of time on this which would be great because this is what we should be doing as a board. Frankly, I like love these retreat level conversations where we're actually talking about academics and not buses. Um, but one of the things, and I'm again I'm sorry Bonnie's not here, but I do know is that she she's like seeks out like some of the like really oh hot students. And I'm kind of going to go to the it's kind of the second point on the grade 2 pushing out cuz frankly she's seeing some of these

242like math superstars. I have to be honest, kindergarten, first grade. >> Yeah. >> And she sees it in the data and she's kind of going to these kids on her own, right? and the teachers then are addressing them on their own. So there is a whole level of differentiation and personalization that I think is happening earlier than we even understand. I don't know if that's happening in science. I do know that's happening in math and I'd argue it's probably happening in language arts, but I have to admit I don't know. And if that's the case, then we should be a little bit honest with ourselves because then if we're already doing some of those things, are we creating a structure here that's doesn't really even exist? because we're already hitting those kids early. And I

243think it's particularly, and we know I'm like the math lover, it's particularly important in math because otherwise you're kind of off cycle. You get to high school and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I never took algebra on time." Right. So it is relevant, but if you could speak to that, I guess. >> Sure. Um I will say from a math perspective you were asking for it is rare for a kid to um be pulled out like after they get in and it is a very delicate conversation with a lot of notice and a lot of meetings to get people to understand why the student would be better served in the general education classroom. Um is is your is your admission because it's math and it's easier to um evaluate is it more like you got

244to get this score on the test or be at some level? You could simplify it in that way, but it's probably a little bit more complex than that. But yes, um >> because that's my concern on the science side. It's not to pick on science. It's that it's like wherever there's more room for pushy parent versus like just a you know objective measurement, then you have more room to erode the program, right? Um do did you want to say something? Do you want me to address the Go ahead. >> Yeah. So um yes, so I've I'm affusive with my appraise of Bonnie. um we could not do anything we do without her. She's absolutely critical. Um and she is able to identify these kids early on and it's usually with in math with the help

245of the teacher. The teacher notices right off the bat say in kindergarten first, sometimes in second, but um oh my gosh, like this kiddo is like off the charts. They can multiply and they're in kindergarten. Or a few years ago we had a first grader that could factor polomials and we were kind of like what is going on here, right? And um and so you know the teacher's like I I need help. And that's when Bonnie gets out there. We observe the kid. We talk to the parents. We we do a very comprehensive review. We figure out where the kid actually is. And then we figure out how to program for them. I would say most of the time it ends up working out where we can coordinate the schedule of the building so that

246that kid in kindergarten can enter a say a third grade ALP math class. But it's tricky because now you have one kid might be driving the whole schedule of the building because you're trying to line things up the right way. So that's that's a tough one. But um generally speaking, we're able to meet those needs. And to your point, math is much easier to sort of focus in on this kind of stuff because we can kind of gauge exactly where their level is and then we know, okay, this is a seventh grade ability, this is a fourth grade ability, whatever the case may be. Um, so, um, yes, we we have many kids that are anomalies in that regard that, um, we oversee, we watch, we figure out how to program for them. Um, and,

247you know, oftent times they end up in our highest levels or zero block classes and all that kind of stuff. Um, I think you wanted to address assessment. Yeah, the the only other piece I was going to piggyback off of what Cody was saying is that the assessments in the math curriculum in terms of the end of unit assessments and to be able to monitor students and continue to monitor their progress are designed a little bit differently than the core curricular assessments in science which are project based and model based. So, it's just a little bit different in different different in terms of determining whether or not um what what grade level assessments are we looking at to support student placement or students um determining that they need to be placed back into the gened

248classroom. It's just less linear and concrete than math is. >> The the um just a question, I don't know the history of it. the re what is the reason we don't do acceleration uh and only focus on enrichment is that uh yeah for science >> um my understanding was that the way in which math works we can have a student enter the high school and receive high school level credit for their 9th grade course regardless of whether that course is algebra 2 geometry pre-calc etc. When we look at accelerating science, we're not going to be offering high school level biology credit to an eighth grade student. So that's not something that our acceleration would be for not because we need biology as a graduation standard at our high school. So that acceleration would lead students

249into a path of what now if we do an accelerated model where you're taking biology in eighth grade, but you still need biology as a graduation requirement in your high school course and you can't take that from your middle school transcript. So, it's not functioning in the same way that math does for a credit acceleration program. >> Is that our own is that driven by us or is that a state requirement? >> That's a good question. It's it's really a function of Greenwich. When I was a middle school principal, we actually had high school level science as in 8th grade and it was intro to chemistry, intro to physics um because it was something that fed into the high school programming and where they were headed. So it it's really district by district all across

250the country. >> I don't want to do it tonight, but that feels like a subject that would be very much worth discussing. It's because I mean just to take like there are don't we have eighth graders that are doing calculus? It's a shame to do calculus and then not be doing you know physics alongside of it or whatever. like there's some things that probably pair and if we have I'm sure that the polomial factoring kit probably could deal with a lot of science more more rigorous science stuff if uh like I don't see any reason why you wouldn't tra Sorry sorry let me put it this way it sounds like the answer is a silly self-imposed uh administrative requirement that we have right there's not any real like it's like they can't graduate unless they

251take biology in high school but the answer is not like the best student outcome is is because of that. It's just a >> I think the other limiting factor to consider is the lab availability at an elementary school versus the middle school. We'd likely end up needing to support students to do their science then at a middle school site location if we were going to have them moving. If you're tracking them in third grade, then they're taking sixth grade science in fifth grade, then we're moving them to a different timeline, etc. I just think there's a lot of logistics. nothing is impossible, but that but when you're thinking about setting a kid up in third grade for what their path looks like 6 years later in nth grade, that's a little bit um that it's

252we have to consider it big >> or have them cover half the curriculum in the year and the other half they can just watch cool Veritasian. >> No, but it's crazy that I never even thought about it with the science especially because actually you run out of opportunities to take science. Like I know that my kids can't take all the science classes they want. And once you're on the math, you're kind of like you you're on a path and kind of run out, right? In some cases, some kids, but like >> there's, you know, a lot of kids want to take AP Chem and AP Physics and you you're really usually can only get one of those in in your high school. I mean, some people do in the morning. >> Some people do two

253at a time, but you're always giving up something, right? And so to the extent if you had a kid that was that accelerated in science, >> they could be doing the same thing though. >> I mean the other way to think about it is imagine for a moment we didn't have the requirement that all high school kids have to take biology in high school. It would be very bizarre if for you all to come forward and say, you know, I know we have this smart seventh grader over here took biology. We shouldn't allow that. Everyone should have to take it in nth grade and let's slow everybody down. Like I doubt there's always so much status quo inertia on existing things. I doubt anyone if it was the other way would be pushing to change

254to what we have it to. It's something that should be visited. These are, by the way, this is such a great sheet. I wish all of our meetings were doing this stuff. Um, >> it comes from all of you. So one one thing I would add though I think in an effort and and again Terara's partner in this is that versus having say an eighth grade class that's intro to Kim intro to physics that's one of the reasons we have the highest level research where our kids are over in the high school and juniors junior innovators and and the results we're seeing through that program are best in the country. I mean well we have a young lady going to Washington DC I think is it next week or so. Yeah. So, we're offering a

255really high level for those students that you're talking about, but it is different than just on the regular curriculum. >> I guess I come back to what is the problem we're trying to solve with one and two for discussion items. Is it that we have concerns about the program as it currently exists and and should we look at alternative options for them? Just help me to understand how you want us to look through the lens. I don't think there's a problem with anything. I think what happened last year is both of these items were on GA and GOAT to get rid of them. Why is that? >> You're right. And the board was discussing an entire page of probably 40 items and didn't really couldn't dig in deep on some of these topics. And so

256that's why they've asked I think for them to come back to have a deeper discussion. Um and and that's why you don't see the financials here tonight because it's really about, you know, this was on a reduction list last year. So, do we value it or do we not? Is it really making a difference in the lives of our children? And I think that's that's what we're trying to to discuss. >> Yeah. No, I think 100%. I mean, I think that people were very frustrated. The public was very frustrated. They were like, why are you having this conversation about cutting it for money? What is what this should be a policy conversation. So now we're having it as a policy conversation, right? And >> and the answer is because we always try to secretly do

257policy through the budget process, which was always my goal. >> Well, now we're doing it the proper way, right? We're having the conversation. I mean, and I think for me personally, you know, the question is, is this the best for all of the kids, right? So I don't you know it seems like there's so much data we could dig through it endlessly and it and I don't know you know we are hypothesizing and extrapolating and all of that but you know I guess I'm not totally convinced that this is definitely the best model for us like maybe you know is it is it the best model for the kids who are getting pulled out for science help maybe but is it to the detriment of the general ed kids I don't know Right. And I

258I mean this has been a really robust conversation, but I've I feel like I need to think about it more and kind of even dig through the data more because it may also depend on the school >> because the schools are pretty different in terms of how many kids are getting pulled out and not >> I think the only other piece I would add is that you're looking at this in grades three, four, and five, but we're only looking at assessment data from grade five. So, I think you may have to consider 3, four versus five and whether or not you make a a determination at grades three through five or grades three and four and then something different for five because they are it's a different instructional model. I will tell you that our

259comparative districts are teach instructing science for 45 minutes a day in fifth grade and it's daily. It's not always um on the on the other end of a social studies unit how we do it. Um, so I think fifth grade is a different consideration than fourth grade, especially if we're also leading into advanced science at the middle school, which is a different curriculum with additional standards. It is an acceleration curriculum with different assessments, different rubrics, etc., which is a different model than middle school, sorry, than elementary school. So if there were to be a delineation in decisions that were made, I think that it's 3 through 5 does not need to be a onesizefits-all decision. Um, as a policy thing, is there uh a way we could explore, especially because the comparative schools do more,

260but also because it doesn't the amount of science instruction to me just doesn't make sense, especially when we do like empathy worksheets and other things that some people I think probably think are important, but I would say science trumps those. Um, can we look at from a policy standpoint things that could be done to increase like what what we would have to reduce in order to increase the amount of time allocated to science instruction? Well, you want me to say we have to revisit flesh Spanish at the elementary level. Are you purposely applying to him or be I mean it's said that I'm being I'm being honest when when you talk about instructional minutes our instructional day has not increased over the I' been in this business for over 30 years and I' been in

261Greenwich for 23 years we haven't added instructional minutes but we continue to add instructional requirements we've added foreign language in elementary school we didn't add instructional minutes we had to carve out time for that program I'm not saying that that program doesn't have its merits. I hope people listening hear that. >> I didn't pay him to say this. >> I'm I'm simply saying that that's the reality of the situation. I'm also going to say we offer twice as much physical education than any of our other districts. By by law, we're required to provide 60 minutes. So, when you ask how do other districts allow for more science time, it it's because of the way they've chosen to lay out their instructional day. I'm not advocating for cuts in any area. I'm just simply stating the

262facts. >> Okay. So, we're talking about this. This is like really big stuff. Um, is there like a is there a action item like that we need to be concerned about or is this all just very theoretical? Because I know um the hour is kind of late and this is a I mean a discussion right so we're having a discussion >> there's no impending >> but I think the important thing is these discussions ultimately they leave the realm of theory and flow into action items it's like the right things to be evaluating how much science instruction should we have what how should the advanced learning programs be you know acceleration versus um expansion or whatever and uh these are like really good topics because it starts with the discussion you go collect a little information

263we build on it and we say ah here's policy change we should implement. >> Yeah, it's a retreat, right? So, we're and these were things that came to us again. I think you laid it out well, Sophie. I don't remember sorry if it was Dr. Jones or Sophie, but you know, we were presented with many things from many parties last year because we were forced through a budget item and we were smart enough to say thanks but no thanks. We needed to think about these things over the long term. Instead, we'll just make kids go to school earlier. But um now we're sitting here and it's like okay well these were these were meaty topics and so while we have time let's be thoughtful. >> Do you Tony do you want to since we had

264entirely focused on one and two uh do you want to do cover three four and five uninterrupted like we'll just listen and then maybe we could switch to six because that's a meaty one. >> Sure. >> Yeah. Um so three again is really looking at the SIM skills in nine and 10. Um and if you actually if if that collapsed and you eliminated SIM skills, you would pick up FTE for English and social studies. Um and that really was just looking at is that a course that should be more optional for a student who may need it or a parent wants it. Um or is it something that we really should be still doing? um in 2025. So that that's that one. Um the next one is an outgrowth again from from the board in

265that as we got into the waiting discussion over the last month or two um and you added the 0.25 weight at that AP level. So then that the this 113 and 113A came up. And this is not a new topic either. It's we I've heard this since I've been here seven years. So, uh it's really why do we not wait 113A or should it just be one rigorous course that is um 113 and you have 112 as well. So, should you have 112 and 113 and that kind of follows the logic that you just were talking about as I was thinking about this with biology and AP bio and getting some of the kids that are like say in the 112 maybe they're in the 113 and a little bit more rigorous. I I don't

266know. But a 112 and a 113A collapsing or should they be weighted and you know and there's been a philosophy here I guess for a long time that we didn't wait the freshman level course but it is more work and we do say that I mean it is and that I think those of you that have had students in 113 what I will tell you what what I hear from PTA and people that have had multiple kids is your first student does 113A and your second or third may not and that's really being true. I mean, >> I mean, I know that I had one kid do 113A and then I saw the subject line of 113A and I glossed over it for my first child and I was like that that doesn't speak to

267me. So, he missed the assessment for 13A. Anyway, there's a huge um sort of sense of community among the kids who take that class. I don't know. They just It is It is special. I And I don't know that I would want to see that go. Did you want to keep going or you want to Yeah, let's talk about three and four, right? I guess. >> Um >> Go ahead. I'm happy to go ahead. No, I was say >> so I'm going to start on I mean obviously I've been very vocal about the 11313A and I don't actually have a view on it. I just think that um it's funny because this came on as a pilot. I'm sure I'm looking at Ralph prior to me being on the board. So this is now more

268than eight years ago. I remember Dr. Gates Hon Francis this was something that she pushed. It was the concept that kids are coming out of the ALP English program and then there wasn't like enough a rigorous enough course um when they got to English at the high school. Um there was a gatekeeper aspect to it for many years as a result. So it was the only class that you had to take a test in 8th grade um and get in and then that was removed be for good reason because there was no gatekeeping once you get into the high school anyway, right? it was like if you wanted to go for AP or you wanted to do whatever um go for it. So that concept was removed and the reason it originally didn't have the

269waiting was because there was this gatekeeper effect. It didn't seem fair, right? Like if you were not allowing a child to metriculate into it based on this one assessment, it didn't seem fair that they then would go into high school and not be allowed the ability to have a weighted class their freshman year. when that changed, arguably you have to now be looking at the course on its own because now it's no different than like an honors English course. So, or an AP or whatever you want to call it. So, but the question is, is it different? I've my I've had two of my three kids have taken it. Um, it is a lot more work and I think that that everyone is going to agree with it. I don't know if it's harder work

270and I that's not for me to determine, but it is a lot more. Does that deserve waiting or how is it different than 113? And that's your question because if it's not different than 113, then why are we pretending? I don't know. I think it provides an extra level of rigor for the kids who feel that they want it and don't know if it's rigor or if it's more work. That's my question. I don't know, but everybody in the back of the room looks like they've wilted. >> But is is the idea >> here I >> Yeah, I can do this one. >> I mean, it's it's just a topic and then we should Well, we're going to have a lot more meeting about it, but go ahead. >> Well, do you wait it or

271is it a different So, do you ask for like eight years? Is it >> they'll have it? This course was proposed not by uh most C almost all courses are proposed by the high school staff and it goes through a process and then comes to you guys and you approve your number approve it. This class this course did not come from the high school. This course came from the assistant superintendent at the time. She drafted it. She wrote it and she put it on to the high school. At the time, none of us were uh very happy about that. And uh but that was at that time. Now, um >> how long ago was that? >> Wow, it's more than that. More than that now. Yeah, >> I was still at Eastern. It was Yeah,

272it was at least 10, 15 years ago. Okay. Anyway, um we we get about 80 80 85 students taking the class. Um and >> 113 and and they are not um sometimes they can't be housed. So they're not in their house for uh nth grade English and social studies because they're it's it's almost impossible to uh to uh do that. So that's a that's a one that's the downside. Waiting or not waiting I I really don't it's a rigor it's more rigorous. That's the answer. I know that's what you're looking for. >> I mean I felt like it from my personal perspective but that's not for me to determine. >> I would rather have 112 113 because people actually think there's three levels now. It's not really three levels and 112 gets uh people don't

273think it's college prep anymore and it is but the perception is since you have a third you have 113 that people nobody wants to be placed in 112 because they think it's less than and it's not >> so that's the that's the conundrum more at the high school more than anything else it's not I I think the teachers that a teacher went through the GNA would hurt me if they said we should get rid of the course. Um, but I also think the teachers that are teaching 112, you know, they're not people students are not enrolling in it because and parents are not encouraging ch children to enroll in that level because they think it's it's not as rigorous as uh it's not a college prep uh course and it is. >> Can I ask

274a question? >> Can I I'm sorry. How does that work with the middle schools then >> when the middle schools when the middle schools um eighth graders when they're coming into the high school? Who's determining their placement then in the classes aside from this um the procedure to kind of petition into the class or >> well the teachers make their recommendations in middle school they always have >> so so then so then a teacher has three potential options correct >> based on based on the student. So what would 112 have the most amount of students then 113 or 113A would follow like an ALP trajectory? >> Well, I think right now um 113 probably has the most number of students. Yeah, absolutely. >> Ralph, can I just ask would would it be not having 112

275and having just 113 and 113A? >> It's another way to go. >> I would I I I think I'd be happy with that. >> When when you say 113A as more rigorous, I I can't remember because it's been a long time, but I thought it was just that there's like additional writing work. Is that what it is? I thought there was >> I thought there's additional >> Was there additional reading? Yeah, I thought it wasn't. Okay. >> Yeah, it's it's ri I think it is more rigorous. >> It's a different curriculum >> and based on the people that are teaching it and knowing the people that are teaching it, it's it's tough. It's a tough uh road to go down, >> especially if you're going into nth grade. >> Yeah. And it's and it's only

27680 kids out of the freshman classes that So, >> approximately. >> Okay. So, we have like 600 kids basically in 113 and then 80 and 113A is kind of what we have right now >> in the club. And there used to be 22 sections of uh 112. There's not what 22 sections of 112 anymore. So >> 102 >> there's 10. So >> that course made a big difference in what the perception of the three three uh levels at night. >> So is it like 200 and 112 and then 500 and 113 and 80 and 113A? Is that kind of what the breakdown is? Something like that? >> It's close. Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. >> Is there some way to measure uh the difference between 113A and 113 and to see if it has some kind

277of measurable similarity to um one of the other classes that's weighted and unweighted? like you know I don't know if you look at average grade or some measurement of rigor of the class or something but to say well the difference between these two is similar to the difference between other classes where they they one is weighted and one isn't so to be consistent we should do the same thing or is this like just kind of a gut feel and you more of a gut feeling Cody but you know just because it's more work doesn't mean it should be waiting >> that's question yeah I don't >> that I don't I think that that's not our philosophy here. What we're our kids are going to school not for the weight of a course. They're not going

278to school for, you know, um whatever grade they get. They're going to school hopefully to learn the skills that they need. That's based on the vision of the graduate so that they're prepared for the next level. And that's what that's what kids are going to school for. It's not for a higher weight because they're working harder. There's kids working in level in 300 level English class as hard as they can. >> I'm with you on the not the working hard, >> but what what is the standard then that we have for waiting? >> So, currently honor is an AP, right? >> No, no, no. I I I get I meant not like what we do, but when we say like it's it's not for the class is more work, that's not a reason to wait

279it. >> I don't believe so, but >> Yeah. Yeah. But but what what like why we don't do it for a we do it for AP and honors because is it just that >> we say it's more work. >> Well, is it because we say it's more work or is it because it's harder or >> I think you're hitting on the exact point like >> that's why we're discussing it really. I mean >> like like what what are we just being inconsistent and applying different standards to this one particular situation? I think it's because of freshman level course. That was kind of the I mean the way I've always understood it is just like if you want to take 113A it's because you want the additional challenge and like you want the additional writing and

280that will set you up better for them when you move on and do all these other advanced level classes because a lot of kids who don't and just based on the numbers a lot of kids who take 113 still go on and take a you know AP Lang and AP Lit and all of those other AP classes but in theory are like okay I'm ready to take on the challenges as a freshman to have a more rigorous English course and maybe that sets me up to be more successful in the next in the following three years, but like not to the point of of waiting it. I don't know. That was my >> And do we think that um some kids take the less rigorous class simply because it's kind of all it's like you

281get the penalty of more work but no grade benefit. >> Yes. So then when you think about it that way, it's a policy we have that provides for worse student outcomes because we're steering students towards doing less rigorous academic things. That would make me strongly in favor of waiting it to be consistent and to get better outcomes for students at an aggregate level. >> Like Tony said, your first kid usually does it and your second kid doesn't. Am I so far my both minded, but I you know I but there's a lot of people that sort of say you know you're not there's no I mean as cynical as it is kids will say there's no advantage. No, I mean, when I talk to kids in college and they're like, "How do I get a

282So, it's this kind of job." I'm like, "Doesn't matter what class you take, just get the highest GPA." You don't want that for uh high school English. >> And freshman year, the only other thing that I think is weighted is bio, though. >> Honor is bio. >> Honest bio. Right. >> Right. That's what I'm saying. Right. Right. >> Means it's more work. It's >> That's the question. We can call it freshman English and then freshman honors English. I guess we I mean we could do that. I guess I don't know. >> Yes, that's >> I'm in favor of waiting it. >> I'm in favor of doing something. I don't know what it is yet, but I think something has to change. >> I like the superintendent's idea 113 113A and the only >> You mean

283you mean 113 112 >> and and this way people are not thinking one thing is one course is less than another course. So he's saying go to two >> solidate. >> Consolidate it. There's an argument for it. >> Well, sure. >> Raise the standard for everyone. >> He said no, that wasn't what >> Wait a minute. So if I understand 112 and 113 are the not the same in terms of >> No, they are not >> rigorous. And then 113A steps it it goes up in intensity and >> but you know the kids from 112 113 113A are all moving into advanced classes. It's not like they're they're the kids in 112 are tracked to go to one level or not or or they're all moving they have have the possibility of moving into our

284our highest classes. So it's not like that it's a track. Why don't we just label it honors and then move on? >> Honors. Way to move on. >> I just don't want to un I don't want to diminish our program. I feel like all of these ideas are >> well we're just kind of >> I mean we're just making a decision tonight because we have to have our other colleagues too. But I think that it's it's good that we started to >> but I think we diminished 112. That's what I think we did by adding 113. >> You're saying because we made three levels. >> Yeah. >> There were two we made three. So essentially, >> if this is going to be moved um to an action item, >> do you think that we could

285get from the English teachers or the coordinator, the English language arts coordinator >> to to just, >> you know, very quick bullet points the differentiation between 112, 113, and 113A, so that we can see the level, you know, the leveling and and I think it would be helpful to see who who metriculates into AP. >> Oh, you can see you can actually you can see it here. >> Yeah, you can see it on that on the >> I mean there's 314 kids took AP Lang last year. So that means of the 80 kids that took 113A then there were 314. So a lot of the 113ers probably or probably a bunch of the 112s, right? I mean what I would be interested to know is the kids right kids that are in 112 is 113

286versus 113A when they all move up to Lang you know are the kids out who took 113A are they better prepared to be in lang and then it would be a question of to me just looking at the curriculum being like okay how do we enhance the overall curriculum it's not necessarily even a waiting question to me it's like which kids are doing the best in AP What does that tell us about our freshman English courses and how can we strengthen them, right? Because we want everybody to do well. I don't care if you're what class you're in, right? >> But we also have to remember, you know, all everything we teach, is a student ready for this? Sometimes they're ready in ninth grade. Um, and sometimes they're not. And but it's it's a developmental

287process. So they might not be ready nth grade, but when they get to 10th grade, they might be ready for a more rigorous curriculum. So that's the the difference. And it's hard to, >> you know, quantify that kind of stuff. >> But I just I just want to go back to think about the implication of what you both said. You have students that are that like to be actively engaged that would pursue the hardest stuff, but we're giving them an incentive not to by not waiting it. Like just by waiting it, we could induce action that would lead to students pursuing more rigorous things. That seems like a total no-brainer. But Cody, they're they're high school's a little bit different than when you were there. Okay. They're very serious. They are pursuing the most rigorous

288courses they can pursue. No matter >> these two just said the opposite. >> No matter what the they are going for it. I mean we have more kids take AP classes this year than ever before. >> No. No. I'm with Yes. But I'm just listening to what Kathleen and Sophie said. >> He's being rather cynical. It's because those those classes are weighted whereas this one is not. And so that the fact that you are only getting 80 >> and then you're getting 300 and something in the AP class suggests that people are maybe being incentivized by a weight. No, >> like we don't want to incentivize kids to like and if we if if I mean think about it just on this board. There's eight of us that two people with high school students in

289the room are saying, "Oh, either your kids or your friend's kids made decisions where they pursued a less rigorous academic thing because we put in an incentive in place for them to do that." That's a bad impact >> there. It's not that there is there is no incentive to take the harder class right now. And so we're not So you're not incentivizing them to take the easier class. You're just saying we're not rewarding them to take the harder class unless they just want it for their own. >> We're taxing them. >> Yeah. Well, you can look at it different ways. I mean, and I think what Ralph was alluding to is like, you know, kids are coming into the high school and they're like some of them are 13 still, right? They're they're young. They're

29013, 14 years old and they may not benefit from a more rigorous class like freshman year, but then they'll still be ready for AP Lang sophomore year. And I guess from a mental health perspective, because now I'm thinking about it that way, like if it was suddenly like, oh well, honors freshman English you get is weighted. Then I think you would get a mad rush of people taking honors freshman English because every because their parents would be like, "Oh, you well it's honors and it's an extra point or whatever." And so you wouldn't have 87 kids in there anymore. You would have 300 whatever the same number that you have taking AP Lang and maybe they're not ready for it. So like do we really want that? I don't know. I mean, that's I think

291that's what you were getting at is like, you know, because people as soon as you put weight on it, >> you're going to have kids taking it to gain the system that maybe they don't really benefit and maybe they need a little more space freshman year to get their legs under them cuz it's tough. >> But then then the conversation should be removing the waiting on the nth grade science class cuz there's no there's no reason that it would apply for English and not apply for biology or whatever it was. Well, don't we have I feel like bio is more like the other classes. You have regular bio, you have honors, and you have AP, right? In the same way that you have that for all the >> But it's the same logic. It's like,

292oh, mental health putting you, you put the waiting there, now the kids are going to pursue it. It's like we can leave I my point is like you have, you know, smart kids who chose to not do the harder thing because they viewed it very like, by the way, it's very smart thing to do. You look and go, huh, this could weigh on my I want to get into college. Grades matter. This is going to be harder. like it makes sense. I'm just saying give giving kids an incentive to not take a harder thing and then we can leave it up to them and their parents to decide if they want to push it to the limit or not. >> But it's also a good way for a student entering Garnage High School, which you

293know it's a tough it's a tough road to hoe. So it gives you uh if you don't want to take one of 13, you get to balance your schedule out a little bit. So, say you're taking an honors bio, take say you're in the high level uh math class, whatever uh not algebra 2A, whatever. Say you're in those old those rigorous classes. Maybe you got you want to take a uh take it not take a break or take it easy, but have a less rigorous uh class on your schedule because you know you you're coming into something that's going to blow you away if you uh for for a lot of kids. Um it's just hard. >> But we won't take that choice away from them. >> No, but but you know what I'm saying

294now? >> No, I get what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. And but I just I just would trust people to make the choice that works for them. But I just hate the thought that we would actively tax something to discourage it when like if basically if you say if it was weighted there are kids that would have happily taken the class but they chose not to >> but it's it gives the kids to have a bit more balance in their lives as they enter freshman year. That's >> but I don't know why the limiting principle there would be this stop at English. It's like we we'll go in circles here but it's like then we should just drop it on a bunch which there's an argument for that right? It's like we should get rid of

295homework or let these kids live a little bit. >> I mean, I feel like we're talking a lot. The only thing I would say is that a lot of colleges have freshman English required. I don't know >> if your college did, but I so >> based out of it with AP English. >> Well, there you go. But it's not a it's not atypical to have like a freshman English class whether in high school or in college to make sure that everybody has like a baseline >> to move forward. And I it's for whatever reason that is different than science and math. Don't know why, but I'm just saying I I feel like that is true. It certainly is true in colleges, right? And some colleges, I guess you can place out of it, but some

296you can't, right? >> But Dr. Jones makes a good point. Why do we call this one 130? Why do we have the numbers? Like we should just be calling this like if we go to two classes, freshman English and whatever, >> we should use colors, >> right? When I first started, I had no idea. It was so confusing. So, I know it has to be confusing for parents if they're first in the high school because you've just got these random numbers and you're like, "What is this? Were you like that?" And where when it says like freshman English and advanced freshman English or whatever you want to call it, but then parents would actually know, too. >> Yeah. So, I think that um I Yeah, I think it goes one of two directions, honestly. I

297think you either wait it or I think you collapse it to 112 or 113. and then wait 11 and then wait 113. Okay. I didn't even think about that. That's the third option. >> I mean, if you took your recommendation or suggestion earlier of just having a a 113 and a 113A or an English 9, English 9 honors, however you want to label it. the honors would get the weight and then the >> the English nine wouldn't but it would also be a way because there are supports and then looking to seminar skills right >> and not get rid of seminar skills for those students who maybe would flourish in in in 112 113 might be a little little rigorous for them but if you're collapsing it right and keeping the STEM skills in there.

298Then they have that support through that to tackle an English 9 or a English 113 or whatever we want to call it tonight for argument's sake. So they do have the support. So you're bringing those kids from 112, you're bringing them up to a 113, pulling them together, and those kids that really excel go to the honors or A or whatever we want to call that. So there's the two and have the supports in. I don't know what it looks like scheduling wise. It's just a suggestion. >> I just want to be clear. I think there should be two levels. And I don't think either one should be weighted. >> Okay. That's what I think. >> You should basically be like not call it 112 and 113. Just call it like >> English one and

299English two or >> um Oh, sorry. Uh what what which which subject matters for freshmen do we have three levels for and which ones do we have two levels for? >> Uh three levels in science. >> Okay. And we're we're trying to do that more because we don't want to track children through the school and have them, you know, in CL because you you put a kid in, for example, in practical bio, they're going to say the same kid in uh in our lowest uh math class and they're going to say the same kid in uh one of our lowest um for world language classes. So you we don't want to do that. >> When you say track kids, what is it? What do you mean by that? I >> mean having the same kids

300floating from one room one class to the next class to the next class. >> Why is that an inevitable consequence of having three levels? >> You've got >> Doesn't that just mean that the teachers or the program for the lowest level are not doing as good of a job if you have a situation where they're staying stuck? >> You don't have enough students on your master schedule to have 10 sections. you only have two or three. And then then when they start choosing their electives, they they end up on the same like schedule because you just don't have enough of the classes. And if kids are no longer taking like 112, you know, because they they've moved away from that, then you just don't have the sections. >> But I guess what I'm confused is

301when we say track, we don't want kids staying at the same level that they're at. But the way to solve that is to put them in a class where the average level in the class is higher. And that we think will then make them less likely to stay on the track that they're on. Like that doesn't seem uh you put you put them in there with support, not just take apart practical biology and then not support the the students in the regular bio classes. You put them in there with support. >> Okay. But but then Okay. So the idea is you're trying to catch them up live basically. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And do we have we we we did that with um with science in last few years? >> We just did it.

302We're five weeks in. >> So actually that's kind of interesting because you can you'll get some data out of that and see if you're getting >> Yeah. you know what the results are. >> It's one of the best ideas I I thought that ever came out of my my team. >> The But when you say the best ideas, the to use it as an experiment to see how it works or you've already decided it's a good idea before you see the results. >> We thought it was a good idea because for a number of reasons, but because how do I put this? Um, we thought it was a good idea because the instructions at one level was getting interrupted all the time by various things. Maybe behavior, maybe the kids uh were not up to

303speed with the the curriculum, they need more support in reading or writing, something like that. We put them with their their peers. They should have been all along. We should never had a practical class. and we put uh co- teachers in four sections those classes so that they'd have support and would succeed. We didn't we don't experiment on kids. It's not an experiment. Okay? This is what we did to to help kids thrive in that environment and learn that great biocurriculum that we have. But but just I just to pressure you on this because if it came back that the say the the kids uh in the class who were would have already been in the middle level and are now sharing it or whatever if their results go down or they feel held back

304or there's suddenly distractions in the class and you had clear data that showed you that would you then say it's a success and that's just the cost of doing it or would you then rethink it? >> Well, we'll look at at the end of the year. We're always going to look at it at the middle and the end of the year to see how everybody how the those particular students did. But we also had data that showed that if they were in practical bio, they never were able to go to regular chemistry. They >> But that was my point that the issue might score well in the NGSS. So we had that data which is another reason why we made the change. >> No, no. I guess my point though is that it's not clear

305to me that the issue wasn't that the way that that practical program was set up was just not designed well. Right? If we were getting bad results out of that program and then we say, "Okay, we're going to eliminate the program and mesh it into the other program." Uh like you don't know necessarily what what was causing the underperformance there, right? I think if you go back to our special education study you and reflect back on that data you will see that that's one of the areas that was part of our action plan because what's what was also happening in practical is they become almost special education classes that are placed and we were almost 100% like when they first came in to study us and so then other parents would think that it was

306a special class and so they didn't want to have a regular gened student in there and that's something we've really worked on but it's very difficult fault because parents are making those choices for their children. Um, and that's a and that creates just a a very different environment. I think that's what Ralph is is saying. Yeah. >> And it's a completely different environment and it's a healthy one. So, again, we're going to review it at the end of the year. will recruit as any of the year. But I think based on what uh Sean and uh Todd White saw yesterday in terms of cognitive engagement and kids on track and and and really working. I I think we're headed towards a big success. But so so is science the only one that is uh two

307classes? Do we use three like in math? How many levels just in terms of we're talking about consolidating three English levels to two we have so we have three in English what do we have in math >> we have uh for ninth graders >> this bring I'll bring in the former math coordinator >> my former high school math teacher >> former teacher >> yes >> what grade did you give him by the way too >> that's not public information >> I still remember our circadian rhythm assignment that such a unique assignment for a math class. Always think about that >> sinosoidal functions. >> Um, so math is math is just a different beast because students are going to come into nth grade based on what they did in eighth. So you're you might be in

308algebra, you might be in geometry, you might be in honors algebra 2, you might be in algebra 2. So it's based on what they took in eighth grade. So they're >> all right. So a lot of levels there, >> right? >> and then world language, same thing. Whatever >> different >> lot of Okay. So the the general thing is having lots of levels outside of science. >> Yeah. How about um well I guess history is the same. History of the same thing. >> Oh you is history is the same for every >> the same as is. >> So you right? >> Oh same as English. >> But why didn't we put >> 113? >> We should be talking together. >> Is there 113 for history >> and global studies? >> Correct. US correct going. Um,

309so yeah, basically it's not consistent, I guess, is the takeaway. But foreign language has multiple levels and math has multiple levels because you're kind of coming in at >> what's funny is it's not like English doesn't have multiple levels. There are people that are reading, you know, really advanced books and then I don't think I've read a book till junior year of high school, right? Um, >> okay. I mean, I think that on this one, I think we've asked for some Do we need any data or I'll pull pull some data and then um get some thoughts from um the English department. Right. >> Um and I guess and sorry, and the history department because it's one of the same, >> right? Yeah. >> Now we can do the fun one. And then um and

310then okay and then sorry as we keep going um >> there's two more >> two more >> um so the next one again is something that the board talked a lot about um last spring but it's really looking at uh realigning the the structure and the support ad and having a stronger advisor structure but aligning the high school more by grade level um for the support system. Um, and again, that one was thrown out there and it it's probably listed a little bit different here just by hearing the different conversations that that you're all having right now. Originally, I think because we were doing it so fast last spring, it was like get rid of a house, but that didn't go over well. Um, and so I we've tried to I think as you have

311given me feedback, put this together based on what I think um I'm hearing from members of the board. I have one question that I already know the answer to and I think it's only a one-word answer, but are aren't we one of only very very few schools in the country like maybe two but less than five that does a five uh groups our administrative functions into five instead of four. >> It's unusual. It's unusual, but I don't know how many in the country. I mean, I really don't. It's um but it it is unusual to be grouped that way. And there's, you know, pros and cons to both, but I think when you're grouped by 9, 10, 11, and 12, one of the benefits is when you have a team of people that are bringing

312in those freshmen and they really get to know the kids and they're all on the same level. They're all having a lot of the the same experience. Um there it is when they stay with those kids, you know, all the way through high school. Um on a grade level standpoint, right? So >> because right now you basically just have your guidance counselor like one person that kind of tracks with you in that sense, right? >> Yeah. sometimes. I mean, even from a school spirit standpoint, I think, you know, going to student government, we don't our houses don't seem to do like I'm going to say like I was listening to a staff member the other day actually talk about when they were in high school at Greenwich High and the houses used to be such

313a big piece where they really and I don't know why and Ralph has been here his whole life so he would probably know but they felt really connected to the house and now I had a parent actually say, "Well, you know, on parent night my child didn't even have one class in the house. So, at some point in time when the structure was put in and you're really kind of like a school within a school and maybe it's when we went through the construction had to add a science wing. How did that impact everything? I don't know. But, um it is frankly it might be the giant course of study guide. I mean, it's possible to have like I mean I don't think any of my kids have ever had a class in the Clark

314house. But I think if you have been in a large high school where they're a 9 10 11 12 structure, the school spirit is like off the charts just because these are the group of kids that are going to graduate together. They're, you know, things like your pep assemblies and things like that are just I don't know. It's everything that they're doing as a class. You're building a class and and I think from a spirit side it there's a lot of value to it. But again, you know, there's no right or wrong way to do it. Um, it's on here because it got thrown out there last year and everyone wants to discuss it again. >> All right, we keep going. >> Well, I just wanted to say that for the house system, I've been

315doing this for a long time. I was in a house when I was in high school. So if you need support and a lot of kids in our high school need support, there's no better way to do it than through the house system. They meet weekly on students. They develop plans for students in that house. They get the secretaries, the school counselors, the psychologist, the social worker, the house administer get to know their kids. It breaks that big school into five tiny schools. Lots of schools try to emulate Greenwich High School and put a house plan in. They can't do it because they're not built that way. We were built that way specifically by a group of people who thought about this and decided, "Yeah, we're not going to do two high schools. We're going

316to do one high school." And then they went and looked around the country and they went to Massachusetts all all over the country and they found the house system and they brought it back to Granch in 1964 of all time all years and that's when they started planning that building. So remember why they did it in the first place and what the services that are being provided through the house plan. It's faster than anything I've ever seen in any other high school. But it's but it works better for us because we're built that way. >> Why is why should we add a house? Why why is five better than having six houses? >> Well, first of all, where are you going to put the sixth house? But uh second of all, it our our numbers

317for our guidance counselors are great right now. They're about 180 uh students per counselor. It's amazing. It's a great resource for kids. If we uh reduce a house, then we're adding kids onto counselor's case loads. And you all know because all of you had a kid uh apply to college or you've applied to college, the deadlines are now so much earlier. Those counselors are working over the summer to get their stuff done and it's done by house. But >> you don't want to you don't want to reduce a house and then uh accelerate the case loads in the houses and that in four houses. >> Is your point that you think the number of guidance counselors is the correct number but whether you just had more guidance counselors in four houses or fewer guidance counselors

318in six houses you'd be indifferent. >> But it's also the other services that the house provides in a timely timely manner. >> No, I get that. I'm just curious of why is five houses I and I understand that the building has five. >> Um when we knew a thousand more students were coming to Granch High School, we had 1,800 students or 1900 students at the time. Another thousand students were coming. We had choices to make. One of the choices we had one empty building because we built a science wing and we moved the media center over to and we built a new main office. So here's the empty building. We made it. We turned it into classroom so we could do the reconstruction on all the other houses so we had a place to go.

319So Clark House would have a place to go while they were reconstructing that house. Okay. Then all of a sudden we had an empty building because everything was all the construction was complete. So we had world language in there for a year while we tried to determine what would be the best way to go. Did we do a fifth house? Did we do a ninth grade house? Do we some do some kind of a career house? Something. There was lots of ideas, but bottom line, the the school and the board decided it was a better idea to go with another house. >> Wait, sorry. This is when when was this? >> In the '9s. >> I thought you said it in the 1960. >> The house plan for four houses developed in the 60s. Yes,

320>> but I guess >> the fifth house was 22 years ago. >> Okay. So, but your logic was we should go back and remember the original founding reason we have this which was four houses and then we had an influx of students 22 years ago. Were there more high school students or fewer high school students? Fewer 22 years ago, but then they then they came and we got up we were up to 28 almost 2,900 students at one point. We needed we needed another house. >> Where are we now? >> Around 26. >> Okay. I I just for me the thing I'm trying to understand is what the actual there's a question of you know how many guidance counselors to have per house or something like that. But when you've got it's like why why

321five versus four? four worked in Greenwich High School for a long time. Like what is it that we gain >> high school wasn't that big? >> Okay. >> It was in the 70s, but in the 80s and 90s, British High School wasn't that big. >> But it Okay. So, onethird of the decades you just mentioned, it was that big >> and it worked. >> It was >> okay. I'm just trying to get what Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, kids need more services than they needed in the in the 70s. >> But isn't the main question of what what you align it around? Like the logic of doing four is you say you're going to align them around an individual grade, right? Isn't that the idea is that what the idea is? >> Yeah. >> No,

322but that's the logic behind we're we're unusual for doing what we do, right? With having five versus four. I >> I don't know if we're unusual. I know other high schools in kinetics. You haven't looked into a house plan. >> Okay. And they they have five houses. That's a standard thing. >> Yes, some of them do. >> I don't think there's a standard thing. >> That's but but I just This is very important because >> you're talking about something. >> Yeah. >> You're talking and advocating relatively strongly for something. >> Oh yeah. >> You don't even know what the other schools in Connecticut do, let alone the rest of the country. >> Okay. So, is that Sorry, just you just told me you didn't. Did I get that wrong or >> I'm advocating for something

323very strongly that I believed in and this community believes in >> and I'm trying to understand >> has believed in since we opened that second thing. >> But you believe in it without a comparative basis. I'm trying to get like what it is that drives the belief. Can we maybe so it is >> well I think maybe we have to do is what we should do is we should pull data right >> the other thing I guess what you're just saying so I can understand >> no we could pull data but as you saw from what we just presented the house system works our scores are up there's a reason for that would you I mean I'm sorry >> may I say something and then and then Jen and then >> as a math teacher

324do you think that that statement holds up >> I just want to make sure everyone knows both Ralph and I we've been house administrators. So, we have the experience of what goes into actually running a house and what it looks like. And the beauty of Greenwich High School, I've been here 25 years, so 22 of those years we've had the five houses, is that you make a very large school feel small, right? That's always been the concept. Our students know they go into any of the houses that they belong to. They have staff that's welcoming them. There are three counselors. There's a social worker. There's a um psychologist. Ralph said we meet maybe during the report every week the teams meet for at least two hours to talk about all the students. Five houses is

325working for us because the they're they meet the students as ninth graders. They then still know them as 10th graders continuing to 11th grade. If we went to only knowing them as ninth graders, I fear that we lose that connection about knowing about the students. So at any time during our weekly meetings when we talk about students, we know them when they're juniors, we know what they were like in nth grade. So there is something to be said. The families build that connection with the school counselor, possibly with the psychologist or social worker, if the student, with the mental health situation that we're in these days, they they get to build those connections and really get to understand the students not just academically but also as a person. >> What about if again from >>

326add one thing? >> Yeah. this you can travel with the grade. >> Well, that's that's I think that's >> a lot of the when you do the research on other schools that do this, a lot of them do that. >> I think actually that's that's kind of the impression I thought that you were proposing was actually following them with the grade. Go ahead, Jen. >> Well, as a guidance counselor, I worked it both ways. I worked through a grade system and I worked through what we had in in the high school was a it was a magnet system. So each guidance counselor was in charge of a magnet which follows the house principle where you're getting um cutting across the grade levels and you're getting to know the families etc and watching them go through.

327That being said, I think might and there's pros and cons to both. There really in my opinion there really are. What I think maybe um would help us to look exactly what you were just explaining, right? What are the benefits that you see for the house system? They're getting services. We're meeting with the kids. I think maybe a broader understanding of how the house structure really works. I mean, I know you went through it, right? Um but to understand is it is it just an is it numbers you know because that will alleviate some right every guidance counselor I guess has what 180 >> per one and then if you took a house away then you're >> putting other numbers right >> um so you know I think it's it's helpful to see it from

328what your dayto-day day things are the support staff that you have the, you know, weekly meetings, you know, just something that shows the cohesiveness of a house, right? And and the benefits for the kids. um I think would also provide us with a you know data points to to look at right as opposed to a traditional 9 through 12 and how that would work or wouldn't work with a system that you would have in place if that makes sense right because you wouldn't probably just I don't know maybe you could just have your social worker or psychologist move up with the grade, I guess. >> No, we probably just should add another retreat. >> Yeah. No, I'm thinking that >> I mean serious play. I mean, >> because I find it fascinating. >> I'm just

329wondering too like if the I know I want to be a part of this. Um No, because maybe I don't understand it well enough and I've threw one high school. Well, I guess the high school I went to is much smaller, but um you know, do are you almost like the Clark House becomes like the class of 2030? Is that kind of like the way you're saying it? Like I mean, it's not really I think we're might be talking past one another. To me, it seems like it's semantics a little bit. No. >> Well, you only have four years though in the high school. >> So, >> okay. Sorry. So, there's an extra house, but if you were to like realign in theory, if there were four, you are talking about the same thing. No.

330Like you're basically following. >> Yeah. >> Right. Exactly. Okay. >> Yes. >> Except for the one math change. I understand your point, but otherwise you're just sort of >> realigning them with a grade. >> Not unlike a middle school situation. >> Is is there an >> Yes, but you're right. appetite for it at the high school to move from I mean I kind of I got a feeling um in the spring but I mean >> give me an example too. So Jen um there's a bunch of people every year well once a year anyway 50 year re uh reunions they want a tour of the of the of the high school. The first thing they want to know is why the houses aren't in the same place when they were in high school. Okay. They're

331so connected to that to they were so connected to their house. They want to know why I move things around. Well, cost $20,000 for moving fees. So, I just change the payments instead. But that's the explanation. But they were connected and I was uh connected to my house. But see, I think that's the devil's advocate aspect, Ralph, is that that's not necessarily what we're hearing from parents now is that their kids are not they're it's not the high school as a whole. They're not really connected to their house. They don't have classes in the house. They're not doing a lot that you would see in a house structure. I mean, I always think of Harry Potter, you know, but but if the English Australian systems, that's how they're set up. But you're having competitions, you're

332doing all this fun stuff. house to house. We don't do that. And we probably did, I'm sure, when it was first put in because I'm sure being in New England, probably a lot that came over from England where it originated with this structure. So, I think that's part of of why it's bubbling up now. We're having this great conversation. It's could we actually just because it's different doesn't mean we're not that we're not going to support as much. I I think it's a good conversation, but >> the original house system was Hogwarts, right? >> My husband I mean in Australia because you know obviously they they use an English system. So he was in a high school of 4,000 students and they all had houses and they competed and I mean that's kind of it's

333that's just the system if you're overseas. But um it's you know not as common here but that doesn't mean that you can't think differently and I think that's just what the board has been doing is trying to process is are we supporting our kids as much as we could? Um and the kids say they want to see more school spirit. Is there a way to actually do that? And maybe it is the house structure that we have and let's get back to what they used to do, you know, 30 years ago because people did feel differently about their houses than our kids do now according to what they're telling their parents and conversations kids are having. Yeah. >> When I was there, the house had no meaning or attachment. >> Yeah. I'm way >> everybody

334has a different experience and that's that >> and that's what you're saying, right? So some people in the community are not their kids aren't. But you know what? That's the function of you putting in a 113A class, three sections. They're not housed, right? >> They may not ever have a a class in our house. >> But when we first opened the 9th and 10th grade English and social studies classes were in the house, so which will function as a schedule as well. >> Yeah, you're right. That's the that's the everything has sort of changed. >> Well, I mean, an AP didn't exist. You feel it didn't exist. Exactly. Yeah. No. And that's why it's okay. It's okay to take a step back and sort of say like what's good for now. I mean, I'm not

335saying it is or it's not, but we can't be >> Do you want me to rush through this? >> Yeah. So, why don't we do I honestly think especially without I mean, I think Michael Joseph and Karen would love conversation. So, I I think that this is great that we've kicked it off. We might have to add a retreat, but um we'll get let Karen decide that. So, okay. Uh last thing. >> Yeah. So, the last item is really looking at the scheduling piece. Um and again this is one that's bubbled up and I have acknowledged according to board policy or regulation the chatgpt.com um >> we we are supposed to so I I'm doing what I'm supposed to um modeling good behavior um and partially I was so thrilled because I went to Ben

336and Patrick and said okay I need some calculations and I'm like my head is spinning trying to calculate and and Ben was like well why don't we use chat GBT I was like oh okay So, we we got some really good info and then went back into it. So, what the comparison is is looking at the eight uh the eight block drop two, which is what we use versus just a regular sevenb block day. Um I'm not going to get really in the weeds. You can take this home and read it, but basically what happens on a daily basis is every class meets every day. So, you know, there's pros and there's cons to that. Your periods become a little bit less. um when you see where it says instructional minutes per course your periods

337would be about right now we're at 55 it' be around 47 I think it is minutes but over an 8day cycle you actually gain instructional minutes so you actually have about 14% more instructional time which in things like AP can you know can be positive um the other things is when you look at like a seven period versus a drop two and again this is all just doing the research stuff Um, in seven period it's easier to like get rid of like generic study halls um to get your like your duties more in line um and have a better use of your staff, your non-certified and your certified. Um, and when you look at the study hall and duties on page three, right at the top, it's talking about uh the drop two and it

338creates more scattered free blocks and we definitely see that um and and staff which often becomes supervised study halls which means that you end up diluting your certified staff because you have them plugged into things like these study halls and other things. Doesn't mean you don't offer it but it just that's what happens on this type of schedule. Um, so when you're talking about scheduling efficiency, um, you know, there's the pros and cons. Um, more again, I just I've already said that, uh, it's a simpler calendar, but I'll just I'll go right down to the bottom on like what are some of the value added, and again, this has even come up at like PTA. Um, so provides more opportunity for AM and PM things like work study, career pathway opportunities. It's very difficult for

339our students to like if you wanted to do an afternoon career tech or you wanted to go and do like um an internship at you know at Porsche or somewhere like that in the afternoons um because we rotate our schedule rotates um it visiting professors bringing in Wall Street executives to teach like a a course along with the teacher literally teach a course it's hard on a rotating schedule because they can't get their schedules lined up. um daily support for math and especially for kids that um really need more support. It's hard to not have math on a daily basis. Um they do get more instructional time throughout the year. It's about 14% more on a seven block. Um and then if you miss a day like for snow, every every block is um impacted

340equally because everybody misses. So that and that can be a bonus. Um, it also makes greater efficiency for sharing staff almost impossible for us and we do have some that we make work and I was somebody had asked me about an example and like French for instance, we might have a high school French teacher that needs to go and teach French at JC because we have such little bit of French there or at Central. Um, and then this last one was it was a big PTA discussion. And I think it was last year when they were talking about scheduling and I don't remember honestly if it came up during the budget or not but it had to do with um modifying shorten shortened days and this was uh and the and the conversation started with

341a parent um who had a student who actually is an AP level student that had significant health issues and when they were coming back from the hospital they really needed to be on a partial day and then start to build back up. we we can't really do that. And right now, we're seeing more students who are disregulated. And I think, you know, we mentioned that tonight. So, if you really want to be on a modified day and maybe they're going to their therapist three three mornings a week or something, you can't really utilize a modified day, which can be very very helpful, especially in areas like special education and mental health and um so, but again, it's just you're comparing one to the other. There's no perfect way to do it. That's just the data

342that goes along with it. >> Explain that why it would be better with doctors. Well, what like and the reason it came up is so let's say we're integrating a student who's been in the hospital for a variety of reasons. Could be cancer, could be for for any reason and they really need to build back up not only stamina but come back in and be able to take I just need them to take four courses right now, not a full schedule for our students because it rotates. You can't just say, "Okay, they're going to have a schedule that they're going to be there from 8 to 12 or 8 to 11:30." Yes. Yeah. Um, so again, it just and when it gets into internships and things like that, you to be have a more 21st

343century schedule, which I would I would love to be able to see more of our students have opportunities um to go and do things like cyber security off offsite or be able to go to Yukon and have, you know, tap into some resources at the University of Connecticut in Stamford. Um, it's hard for us to do that with our schedule. I mean, our schedule was put in in 1980 and, you know, things look very, very different back then. >> Yeah. >> I had I had a nightmare this past year. I can't remember exactly when, where I was in Greenwich High School and I was trying to figure out which day it was because this is like my letters, right? And I couldn't find out. And so I knew I had to be in a class

344and I couldn't figure out which class. This is like an a nightmare I had this year. Well, and there are and there are and again I think that's why why the board's discussing this because you're all out with the parent community, but there are students who and I think more so now find it difficult to keep up organizationally with rotating schedule. It Yeah, I mean it can be stressful for some students. But >> so my big question which I'm and I'm probably echoing Karen here um is so there are there some kids that use all a blocks? So I actually um had we pulled the data on that and for our 11th and 12th graders who are the heavy hitters um we average six classes 6.3 very few of them. Last year we had where

345did I write this down? Um let me find my notes. Last year we had uh I think it was six juniors. Yeah. So, we had six um 12th graders who actually took like around eight um 8.5 and but most of those are because they go into independent study and like when you look at their schedules, they're very unusual. Um and then we had one senior who took like eight, but again, but think how big our class sizes are. The average is six and 6.3. And so on a sevenb block day, everybody can take seven and you still have the capacity if you want to do independent study or something else. It's that's what the average student is taking. And I've always heard actually they took eight. >> Yeah. >> And that's why I I p

346I wanted to pull the data on it. I didn't pull it. I had somebody do it for me. But >> so just a couple things. Consequences. If we if we decide to do something like this, people are going to students are going to have to wait to take classes. They're not going to be able to take classes when they want to take them. It's just not going to happen. We had the schedule before. >> Students at if there's popular courses at Grant High School, the seniors are going to be able to get those first before the juniors. And so that that's one of the nice things about the current schedule. Most of the kids can get what they want when they want a thing. That's not going to happen with a this kind of There's

347also no opportunity in a seven uh if you're fully scheduled for all seven blocks to get any extra help any extra help during my god 11:25. Here we go. So, >> it's 11. >> Okay. >> So, send me questions on this. Um, >> and I'm 72, pal. So, there you go. So, anyway, so um just just there is the and one of the nice things about that's our schedule right now is you can get extra help during the day. >> So, just two things that I could throw out there right now. We also could >> I I think you could, Rob. You just can't have the number of opens and and that kids have now. And I'm not saying that opens aren't okay, but I think we have too many. Well, but I don't know.

348I I'm not going to comment on that. I'm gonna But I'm The only thing I'm going to say is that if we wanted to put static blocks in the morning at uh in the current schedule and seven and eight in the afternoon, we can certainly do that and that would give us the same so some of the same things that you talked about. Uh Dr. John. >> Yeah. >> Can I add one more thing? Just a question that comes to my mind. I think about our students um who have disabilities and they have what we call academic lab. I just wonder how that fits in with them taking all their courses plus this other class that's required on their IEPs. >> I don't I don't think they're going to have trouble because again those kids

349are only taking six. So you still have a whole block that's open. Um and some of them I bet you if I go and pull some of them they may not even have six. But so I it would from from a from a number standpoint it it wouldn't affect them. But I it certainly and maybe what we want to do is have Aspen um run all the requests through a seven block day and see what it looks like >> and they could probably run it through the dummy system and I already I have the contact and it's the same guy that we were working with before. So >> and very different types of students. >> Well well we we have the requests like from this year. So, what they would do is they would take

350all those student requests and then they would throw them in a sevenb block day, a dummy schedule that's not on our system messing us up. Um, and then they would tell us what it looks like and we would see what the percentage efficiency is. >> But again, I all of this stuff is coming. It's I hope it's not like um hate Dr. Jones day tomorrow because these are all discussions that again started last spring and and some of these items I mean they were on GOSA and GA's lists and you know there was a lot of heavy duty discussion last spring and I think there will be this year again >> and I mean and I honestly I think it's a good thing because like you said most of it came out of budget savings

351and that's not a good reason to be having these discussions. So, >> well, I'm thankful that discussion is starting. >> So, thank you for that. Appreciate it. I'm not thankful that it's 11:30. >> Well, I know. I think we can I think, you know, I'll ask Karen. I suspect she'll want to be a part of this, so maybe we had something, but um All right, Laura, thank you. Do we have anything? You have a motion? >> I have a motion to adjurnn. >> I'd like to You want to second that, Jen? All right. All in favor? I >> Thank you so much. Good night, everybody.