001Good evening. It's October 22nd um at 6:05 p.m. and I'm calling the meeting of the Graten Board of Education Curriculum Committee to order. Um in attendance we have Dr. Andrea Ari, um Mike Whitney, myself, Adrien Johnson are the board members. We also have assistant superintendent Ann Marie Mancini and principal Matt Brown from the high school. So, um, so with that, the next item is to, uh, review the October 6 meeting minutes. Does anyone have any comments or corrections? My only comment is like in the last agenda item, it says that um this is about the what we talked about at the cow just now. It said um this item was tabled for the next meeting and of course now it's not on this agenda, but it's because the process we didn't have to vote and
002so it went to the cow. So I don't know if we want to get rid of that line or not. Well, I was thinking about that and I think um maybe for the meeting minutes tonight um we can say that um that was a mistake. Um and it was my fault because I should have known the process a little bit better that we didn't actually have to vote on it. Um so um so that's why it came up at the CO before it came back to us because we didn't have to vote. Um, but I think the minutes I mean you can you can tell me what you think, but I think that you know the minutes are representing the meeting. That's what what we actually said we were going to do in that meeting.
003So I don't know if um if we can put a side note in minutes or if we would just make a note of that um you know in tonight's tonight's meeting minutes as a clarification. >> I like your approach. That sounds good. >> All right. All right. So, um, so with that, um, we'll make sure it's in tonight's minutes that there was, you know, a mistake and that we just kind of worked it out before this meeting started. Um, but does anyone want to make a motion to approve the minutes? >> So moved. >> Second. >> All right. And I'm in favor or all in favor, I guess we'll say. I So, all right. Meeting approved. Um, next item is review of the district's graduation requirements. Um, I know that our district currently has 27
004credits. Um, and the state requirement is 25 credits to graduate. Um, so with that, um, I don't know, Ann Marie or Matt, if either of you want to kind of start on that and and talk about what the proposed changes are. >> Yeah, I'm happy to do that. Um, do you want me to project the uh, memo or is that something Mark you're going to do? >> Um, I don't have it up yet. Do you want me to do that? >> That would be great. That way, uh, I can kind of talk and see at the same time. It would be helpful. Thank you. >> So, it's the graduation requirements. >> Yes. >> Okay. Well, I could start um talking to this a little bit or speaking to this a little bit while we're waiting
005for Mark to um project the attachment that was part of your packet here. So, as uh Mr. Johnson was just talking about or speaking about and if you wouldn't mind making that a little bit larger if you can, Mark. Oh, >> maybe the three dots in the corner usually. >> I don't know why. >> Or the plus sign right in the middle. >> Yep. That too. Yep. Go to the middle of your screen. There's a plus sign. Um, I don't see one >> right next to to the left of the one. They just upgraded my computer today and for some reason the layout is different. I'll actually I'll I'll just keep talking while you're while you're um searching. But um as uh as Mr. Johnson was talking about to kind of start off, currently Fitch
006High School requires 27 graduation requirements for our students or graduation credits. The state department of ed only requires 25. When I say only actually that's a that's an interesting word because for a long time the state department of ed required I think um you know the number of years ago it was 21 it gradually recre increased to 23 and then um eventually got to 25. 25 is a is a large number of credits uh for a long time again it lingered around 21 credits. Um you can see on the second page of this document um currently Fitch students are not meeting the average requirement of um or the average or are currently performing below average uh the state average in um in in terms of the rate of graduation. There is an each school district
007uh has a what they call an ESSA requirement for four-year graduation. And currently our rate of graduation I believe is it would be nice if I could see it. Um is I believe 88%. Thanks Mark. Go can you go to the second page there for me? >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Currently our rate is 88.9%. That's our ESSA milestone uh for 2324. These are the most updated um percentages. And uh the four-year state average for a four-year graduation rate is 91%. So um the state department of ed gives us ESS milestones in uh for smarter balance math, ELA. We have them for four-year graduation rates. There's a variety of ESSA milestones that we're given. Um the four-year graduation rate, as I said, is just under 89% and the state average is 91%. Um my uh
008my belief is one of the reasons why we are underperforming in this area is because we have you know we exceed the requirements the state requirements. Um and what I've done is worked with the Fitch team to make some recommendations. First, we did a little bit of research into why we believe that um you know, students are not meeting the graduation rate. And based on the research that we conducted, we've made some recommendations here. And um so I'm going to kind of go over the recommendations for you. And um and as a part of the recommendations, you'll see, you know, why kind of our justification. So the first recommendation that we're making is to reduce the world language credit from 2.0 0 credits to one. And um this would reflect the state requirement. And one
009of the things that we talk about here is that you know while many universities of course um find it desirable for students to have uh you know more than one credit in world language. Uh again the state requirement is one but there are a number of students who really struggle with uh you know with the world language requirement. In fact, for a number of years, the state department of ed did not require any world language from students. That was always counted as a an elective credit. Um, students in particular with special needs really struggle to um to meet this world language requirement. In fact, there are uh a number of students with special needs who through the PPT process actually um are exempt from the world language requirement. Now, they still have to earn 27
010uh credits, but they're often um you know asked to take an elective credit instead of a world language. In an analysis that uh Mr. Brown did of students in terms of um you know those students that do not earn a credit in world language, you know, for whatever reason in 2025 um during the 2425 school year, 12 students earned Fs in either Spanish 2 or French 2. in 2020 the 2024 25 school year or 23 24 school year sorry 26 students earned Fs in Spanish 2 or French 2 and the 2022 23 school year 14 students earned Fs in Spanish 2 or French 2 so we're recognizing that that has been a problem um for students and so it's again it's one of our recommendations now of note um I wanted to kind of make
011note that the world lang the IB world organization requires students to study two languages um English and what they call language B. there was a um maybe I would say a mis concept a misperception or a misunderstanding that students had to earn at least two credits in a world lang in a world language and that's why the um the original I wouldn't say the original but when last time that the world or that the graduation requirements were kind of updated here for Fitch um it was recommended that students earn at least two credits but that's not true after doing some original um or some additional research um we learned that you know the IB world language uh the IB world organization does not actually you know they don't get involved in credits that's not an
012organization that um has anything to do with credits it it credits don't translate to um to that organization they just recommend that students take an a language what they call a language A which is a student's first language or a native language and a language B and it also has some recommendations in terms of um the number of hours that the that a language is taught, but it does not specify the number of uh credit or unit hours that students are taking that lang uh have to take that language. So, I wanted to make sure that I cleared that up in case people were like, well, they have to do this for IB. That's not true at all. Um the second recommendation that I wanted to make is that um we reduce the requirements for
013general electives. Right now we we require four general elective credits for students and we want to reduce that to three. This would be in alignment with the state department of ed requirements. And then the third recommendation, Mark, if you wouldn't mind um scrolling down a little bit just so I can make sure I see everything. >> Mark, would you scroll down a little bit? I have to go back to the original for some reason letting me do it through Zoom. >> It's okay. Is or so our third recommendation is that we maintain the capstone or mastery experience. So this is not a reduction. This is just a recommendation that we maintain the capstone experience um at a 0.5 credit in combination with the global citizenship course. I put this in here because you probably remember
014that about um about a month ago um we had some some teachers come and present on the what we call the PY um the personal the my personal project and that is uh that kind of translates to the um masterybased experience at Fitch High School. And I have some language here about um the capstone experience um and how that plays out at Fitch. uh and students complete that in grade 10 in um with some guidance from the global citizenship course. Um it prepares our students uh as it prepares our for our upcoming reacredititation visit incorporating the personal project into grade 10. Um this demonstrates that our this I'm sorry personal project into grade 10 experience demonstrates that our NYP uh program is continuing to grow and improve. As a part of its requirement, students work
015with a supervisor or a teacher who provides guidance as they independently complete an interestbased project that demonstrates their learning. It's important to note that the CSDE does not require a capstone or mastery based experience to be equated to the traditional cargi unit because no funding has been provided to support its implementation even when it was mandated. Now, I want to make sure that I'm really clear about this. Um the at one point the capstone experience was a mandated um credit. It is no longer mandated. It's actually mandated through the uh class of 2027. At that point it becomes optional for districts. But here is where it becomes a little bit more tricky for um for Fitch because Fitch has uh has kind of uh taken this on as a part of the personal uh the
016NYP personal project. um it really becomes an important part of the MYP program and that's why I'm really saying it's it's uh it has to stay as one of the graduation requirements. Um the last point I want to say is as a part of these recommendations it's really important that all these changes would that we are recommending would impact the class of 2029 the current grade nine and beyond. um once you have students that are in the building and have started their program of studies to make a change um would be really difficult. And so any changes that we would um make in terms of recommendations first to of course this group and then eventually to the full board um you know we would hate to make a now that they're you know they're they've
017at the high school they've started their program of study it would be very difficult to make those changes um for 10th graders and up. At this point I'm going to you know ask um and I see that uh Miss Hodgej is um online and also Mr. Brown if they have anything to add. I I think it would be really important for them to kind of, you know, make their contributions here. >> Mr. Brown, anything you want to add? >> Yeah. So, uh, I'm going to start with the the first with the world language. The other thing, you know, as as we we we did show the, uh, Spanish two, you know, or the world language two classes. Um, but I, you know, in reflection, we we probably should have included as well the world language
018three and um for all of those because a lot of our kids are going into ninth grade uh already taking uh Spanish one or French one. So they're they're coming in as freshman taking the second level course. Uh and then with this being a requirement, then they're required to pass uh Spanish 3 or French 3 or whatever uh world language they have. um at the third level which makes it even more challenging. Um and the other you know uh just uh I think the the intent in in increasing to 27 uh was was looking at the typical student uh you know like what we want and uh just so everybody realizes most of our our kids do come away with probably 30 credits or you know uh close to 30 credits even with if they
019they get off blocks their senior year. Um, but this is impacting our kids that are really, you know, the kids that are struggling to to make it and we're trying to push past the finish line their senior year and do what we can. Uh, it just adds extra layers of challenge to to those kids. Um, so that that's really I think one of the biggest reasons why I think this would be helpful for Fitch. And then lastly, uh, with the the personal project, I just want to reiterate, uh, we've we've made tremendous progress over the last few years. Uh I think our students are taking pride in it. They're taking ownership and leadership in it. Uh we have our juniors and seniors leading the way in preparing our sophomores through our advisory and through CTL
020and uh and just preparing them and and and help guiding them throughout the whole process. Uh I I I feel like our uh exhibits when when they actually present uh in it'll be in the fall and in the spring this year because it's a semester course. uh that that's kind of going coinciding with it. But uh when they when they present there, I think it's a it's a huge great moment for our climate and culture as uh it gives us an opportunity as their only sophomores to really start to get to know those kids that much better and and having them talk about something that they're they really take great pride in. And uh I just think that that experience has really really helped build the program overall. And uh so I'm an advocate of
021of all of the recommendations. Miss Hodgej, I don't know if you have anything else. >> I was just going to add uh Mr. Brown and Dr. Aman, I'm not sure if you you remember a couple years ago uh there was a push to increase the social studies electives to four. And research was done that already showed that most of our social studies students, most of our students already uh look to um enroll in four um of the courses without even being required to take the fourth. So, uh like Mr. Brown said that students are already electing to um add more courses if they choose, but for our students who um uh have challenging experiences, whether it's home issues or whatever that's going on in their personal lives, they'll able to meet the credits that we
022have proposed and graduate on time. Um I am also an advocate of the personal project. Um to see the students in the 10th grade level doing an actual research full research showing exactly what their interests are and something that they look forward to. I remember one of our students who's since graduated her personal project when I taught global citizenship and did the personal project she uh her focus was sailing and then she ended up going to college and studying sailing. So um I think it helps them uh in a big way. I just chime in that and it's nice having it in 10th grade because it helps inspire them to kind of find their passion a little earlier for for a lot of them in that example that that Carina just shared. We also this
023year uh I just one last thing um we we do have sophomores that don't complete it shockingly. uh not not everyone completed it their sophomore year, but we're we're addressing those senior those those students their senior year when a lot of them have an off block already and we've we've met with those students and and they're still required their senior year to to complete a project. Um, and we're we've talked about this year. It's still more of a per personal project, but but we may shift that uh in future years the students that don't finish it more as like a rise portfolio. Um, which uh Miss Haj has shared a lot of great ideas on. So that that's something that I think has helped all of our students as well. >> All right. Well, I
024I um I'll start by just saying I appreciate um you bringing this to the board because I think if we can get more students to graduate, obviously getting that graduation number up is important and um and and and it's really not meant for the kids that are the high achievers that are going to have 30 credits. It's for it's for the students that might end up with 24 credits and have a summer job and just not be able to get their diploma. And if we can give them a diploma at the end of the year with 25 credits and not require those extra um I agree and and you know that's a huge thing for their life lifelong you know careers and and lives. Um so so I appreciate this um and I think it
025um I think it's definitely a step in the right direction. Um I I have a couple of questions. One that the my personal project um is right now it's more or less pass fail, right? Is that is that how it's graded? Are there any other um are there any other classes that are pass fail that that students would have without an obviously there might be IEPs or something like that, but but um without an IEP like standard, is that the only pass fail credit? Yeah, I for the standard level courses, there are times when when a a student can take a course pass fail, but um but it's not standard practice. >> All right. All right. So, so my um you know, one of my concerns, and this is just a half a credit, um
026was is is you know, since we're dropping it down to the minimum, do we want to make sure that that minimum is um really fully encompasses 25 full credit hours or or whatever. Um and I know we heard that my personal project and it sounds like um there's some big changes coming and it is going to be or it is right now. I mean, I have a child in it right now and I know that it's that it's been a focus in the global citizenship. Um, you know, as an aside, you know, as a sidebar to the global global citizenship, but but um but that's one concern that I that, you know, I'll express is just that half a credit being pass fail versus actually getting a grade on it. And I and I don't
027know if the long-term plan is to start um you know, giving students grades for that my personal project, but and Marie I you know I can't speak to and I I'll let Mr. Brown or Massage, you know, speak to about the actual grading, but I will um I don't want to say reinforce, but um because I I think it was spoken about in uh another meeting, but I will remind you that um because of the way that the personal project or the capstone project was introduced from the state department of ed, it's not required that a mastery based learning project or a capstone, how whatever term we want to use, um receive a a grade. um that is a flexibility that has been extended from the state department of education. I understand your concern of
028course but um that is one of the flexibilities that the state has extended because uh they understand that it can be challenging to implement a capstone or a mastery based learning project. And um when you implement something like that due to staffing um sometimes you know extra staffing is is required or um you know you have to buy or create new curriculum. You know there's a variety of things when you implement a a requirement like that. They've extended you know a variety of different um flexibilities and that was that was one of them. >> But maybe you know as as Mr. Brown uh or Mr. Brown or Miss Hodgej can kind of speak to maybe they do have plans in the future to, you know, grade the project and and they can speak to that.
029>> I I mean I I'm in favor of more of recognizing, you know, outstanding projects, you know, projects that that go above and beyond. Uh I am a little nervous about attaching a I feel like by not adding the grade, it it's giving every kid, you know, less pressure. uh you know there there there's not as much risk. I I guess what I'm trying to say um they're more apt to complete it and not feel like uh comparing to other projects and so forth. It's each each kids's kind of coming at it at their own. >> Um I don't know if that makes sense, but >> can I just add to um Jess Jessica Dunin and Chris who are leading the uh personal project in global citizenship. Jessica just uh returned from a workshop specifically
030for a personal project this past summer and as I remember her saying and I think she presented it here as well that there are samples that um IB expects so they'll grab a sample of the students who completed the personal project and submit those scores but it it doesn't sound like students would have an actual grade in their you report cards based on the personal project. >> Yeah. All right. I mean, that's just a concern. Um and and I certainly wouldn't let that concern hold up like this this whole thing, you know, at least in my own mind. Um I'd be curious to see um if any other board members are are, you know, what they think about that specific thing having a um you know, like a you know, a pass fail versus a
031grade. Um, and and I guess the I mean maybe it wouldn't matter in the credit count because if you get an F, you get an F and you wouldn't get credit anyway. And if you get a D, you know, that's that's a credit regardless of if it helps your GPA or not. Um, so so maybe that's not not a huge concern. Um, I'll just go um um a couple of other things. Um, one thing and we'll be talking about world language. Um but just to be clear, um ASL is not accepted as a world language as far as IB is concerned. Is that correct? So that's part of the reason that we don't offer ASL in in middle school and in well I mean maybe we don't need to get into that too much. Um
032but um but I will say that um from my own experiences um with you know language based disability ASL is huge and I'm guessing well we know from statistics that lots of students have language based disabilities um you know be it reading or speech or or things like that like a pretty good percentage like you know more than 10% probably more than 20%. So, um, having ASL, um, multiple levels and enough for the kids that want to take it, um, might actually help with those foreign language credits, um, and them getting two credits or three credits if we could offer that because, um, and I'll speak from my own personal experience. I was really bad at foreign language and still am. Um, and and I graduated, um, with whatever the minimum was um, 30 something
033years ago from Fitch. Um, you know, I still made it through college and I did well in college and ended up in a career. So, you you don't need foreign language um, you know, for for a lifelong skill. It's certainly uh beneficial if you have it, but um, but some people just have a tough time learning it. Um, and I think um, you know, ASL like if that were offered, you know, we might not be talking about foreign language. That being said, I agree. Um, we shouldn't have that be a barrier um, you know, for for for whatever reason. Um my other question I would like to hear um I know every year I hear about students graduating in three years a couple of them not a lot but it seems like I hear about
034that and I know it was probably more common with co because they could take extra classes much easier and and get through those those four requ you know required um you know English classes I think is the thing that makes it difficult. Um, and I don't I don't get the sense that this is going to make it easier um for students to graduate earlier, but I' I'd like to hear one, what are the um I mean, does the does the district or the school, the administrators, do they like to see kids graduate in three years or would they rather not see that? And then what's your opinion on whether this change would affect that, I guess, would be a question. >> I I can I want to answer that. Uh I I definitely agree with
035you. uh there we when we were considering this we did discuss that because that that was something that that I don't want to see a lot of our kids graduate early uh 100% I think it's important for them to experience four years of high school I think when they try to rush through the experience it's it's not good for anyone uh there are extenduating circumstances obviously where where exceptions can be made and I I think I'd want to stand by that I think as what we need to do is specific specifically make sure that we're we're very critical whenever making the decision to allow a kid to graduate early. You know, we follow a process. Um they they have to submit a proposal to the counselor, then goes to to me. Uh and then if
036I I bless it, then I'll I'll send it to to Susan. Um and I think we we would have to really make sure we stuck to that process and and really looked at the the why for each circumstance as to uh how many kids are graduating early. And I the number is right now I'd say is like one or two. Um Cara correct me if I'm if you think I'm wrong. I think it's about one or two maybe three uh that graduate early and I would not want to see that number increase by any means. >> I concur. >> All right. Andrea, did you have >> Yeah, I have two questions. They aren't as deep as as the one that you you um propose, but one of them I I think Amory could answer this
037or probably and that is that 88% graduation rate. Does the military have anything to do with that kids leaving? >> I'm I'm going to answer that in one thing. In one way it does. uh as Amarie was saying before about the state of Connecticut used to be closer to 22 uh 23 credits. There's a lot of states in the US that that have a much lower uh number of credits. So then we have military students and a transient population, a lot of kids moving into the the district. They're coming in uh you know as juniors and they had a graduation requirement of 21 or 22 classes and now they're at Fitch and now they have to get 27. that makes a big difference. So thinking of it in that angle, yeah, 100% um the number
038of credits is is a c is a is a obstacle. >> No, that wasn't that's again deeper than I was thinking. I was just thinking of >> of of families that are transferred out of the district. That have anything to do with it? >> If they transfer out of the district, then they would end up falling into whatever school they they they end up at. Um >> I see. and then having to follow their their graduation requirements. So, it might help them because we have stricter requirements. They wouldn't need as much to graduate at the next next school, >> but um but the reverse of that has has come up as a challenge. >> So, a child moving into the district from somebody some place that required like 21, that child would have to pick
039up six more credits. That's outrageous in my view. >> That certainly would uh dissuade me from staying in school. That's awful. >> And as Matt said, Connecticut is one of the highest states in terms of graduation credits, the required the total amount. >> Yeah. Yeah. They are thinking about kids that are military moving in that um deficit. >> And just to emphasize Oh, sorry. >> I'm sorry. And I'm sorry, I was just gonna that that that includes not also kids that you know the kids that are struggling when they're at like 22 23 and they're just you know struggling to get by and and that the light at the end of the tunnel it it's they're more apt to to end up dropping out or or seeking um night school at an earlier age, you
040know, because they they see they they have that big of a gap to reach. >> I think we definitely need >> you know where we also see students struggle too, Dr. acrement is like students that come to the country, they're English learners, they have to have four credits in English to graduate and they may be new to the country. Those students really struggle to meet the requirements of course and and then of course on time too. So when you look at a four-year graduation rate, those kids are not making that that percentage. >> That was my second question. So you you really led led um right into that chromita and that was a lot of our our our kids don't have English as the second language. Okay. So then let's say they speak Spanish or
041even I had a kid in eighth grade who was whose native or first language was French. Okay. So those are two languages that we we provide. Now what if the the uh the first language is Arabic? I work with a lot of Martin Luther King scholars first language is not English and not Spanish and not French. So what happens when a what does it look like? We don't provide Arabic or any other language that I know of. And then is English the second language that they study or is it supposed to be French or Spanish? I I'm just unclear about that. So I mean what a couple things. uh first like yeah their their first language could be Arabic or or what and like one thing that we do take you know great pride in
042is the the number of kids that we get to to get their seal of bi literacy to show that they they're literate in in two languages and and that's pretty evident um and it is it's an extreme challenge a challenge for them uh in just in and supporting them the you know the one nice thing is technologies helped uh kind of bridge the gap a little bit with uh you know translations and so forth like that. But obviously that's not it's still really a huge challenge. But that that's helped. But but we've had a huge demand um with our our uh MLL or multil- language tutors. Uh you know, the need for them has increased dramatically over the la uh over the last decade. Um and it's it's definitely a concern that we have to
043keep keep a focus on is is supporting those students. So then is the the uh second language requirement is would that be English? Would that be considered a second language then? >> Yeah, I mean go ahead Miss Hajj. >> So uh we were just talking about your very question Dr. Amen. And I met with the world language department during our CTO yesterday and we discussed the need for uh an English class for our students with different um language uh native languages. Um and one of them ironically is to propose it wouldn't be for the 25 or 26 27 school year is the IB language A class for English speakers. And so when I attended the workshop this the IB workshop this past summer, that's one class that we can propose where our uh students of
044different languages uh would enroll in to learn how to speak English. >> And that would be the A. >> It would be the A. Yeah, it would be the A- English. And one of our world the the irony of it is one of our Spanish speaker teachers or one of our world language teachers would teach it. We may need new teachers. I'm not sure what the schedule looks like, but we would not you know we just talked about it today. So we wouldn't be be able to propose it until >> that wouldn't be their first language. >> No. No. But because we are >> Why would that be B then? I don't I don't understand why that wouldn't be B. >> Good. Good question. Good question. And and I think because the world language, not
045the world language, the English department um and Emory, if you can help me out because I'm thinking in the English department, the English department has the uh the language IB language or English IB for 11th grade and for 12th grade. And the language a is for students who have no knowledge or very little ability or knowledge about speaking English. >> So >> I think structurally structurally we would be impossible to provide >> language A for all of our kids with the different languages that they speak >> just as a staffing standpoint. >> We it would just you know logistically I don't know how we would be able to accomplish that. Where >> would you even find them? Right. Right. Luckily, I found a a a Chinese stu teacher to find to when I was a
046a a principal to to work with the two Chinese students who had no English. Yeah. >> Well, anyway, that I I understand the difficulty in that, >> but thank you. You answered my question. Um, Mike, do you have any questions? >> Yes, thank you. And and thank you for putting this together because it's a could be a really important thing we're doing here that could help a lot of people. Um, my question is about um uh what year did you envision this um like what what graduating class would first um be able to take advantage of this? Obviously, it wouldn't be 2026. Would it be 2027? No, it would be it would be our current freshman. So >> class of 2029. >> Is there a reason not to move it up? Because I mean I
047could see in terms of adding requirements, but um this would be the minimum requirements would just be dropping lower. I don't see how that would disrupt their schedule, particularly since they're still doing the my global citizenship as an element. and and I would guess they haven't picked a lot that lot of their electives. Seems to me it would help the people who are who have failed something and now they don't have to do as much to recover or maybe it opens up more space in their schedule to to um get that uh grade up. >> I think one of the the one of the things we were concerned about is is know changing the the rules of the game as they're playing. uh something we talked about. Um and you know like so we had
048this set expectations and then to say oh never mind. Um that's that was one of the biggest we we did have a lot of discussion as in our uh department chair meeting about this what this very question like when would be the appropriate appropriate grade to do this and that that was one of the sticking points is is the concern about you know changing it as as as they're going. I don't know if Ann Marie or Carita, do you guys have anything else? >> Yeah, we felt that there especially students that are um in 10th grade and above may have already met some of these requirements. And so again, if you if I'm a student, I've already completed my you know, it's very possible that I've completed already two credits in world language or I've
049um you know, I I may have a couple of credits in and in in my elective credits. That's when I know you have um at least Adrienne has expressed concern with graduating early. That's where we may see some of those students coming forward in a couple of years um saying, you know, I'm I'm currently, you know, I was a 10th grader um a couple of years ago. I had these many credits and now it's uh 2028 and I'm a senior and maybe I'm a first semester senior and now I can graduate early because those that those requirements changed. Um you know, so that's what kind of what we expected. Now whether or not that plays out, I'm not sure 100%, but we were we were thinking that was the case. Definitely for the juniors, that's
050very possible. >> Thank you. And and and that I'm glad you're having that thoughtful discussion like kind of like to continue it eventually. But um one thing for me, it seems like there more people not graduating in four years than there are people graduating in 3 years. And I I think if I understand it correctly, it's basically that that four years of English, I think, that kind of I I guess wouldn't that um kind of anchor you in most of the time to four years of high school? >> Um well, there well and I'll let Mr. Brown talk about this. Every student has to return for for that fourth fourth year of English for sure. But I would imagine there are cases where the student comes back for that one class and then can can
051finish you know afterwards. Um I just saw a case come through you know Mr. Brown shared with myself and Susan in which you know it was an extenduating circumstance for this student. I don't want to share the details but I will tell you that you know the student did have um a a circumstance. Um Mr. Brown brought it forward to us and I believe that student did have to return uh the one class was English. >> Yeah, this is very Yeah. So the one concern there Mike would be then their only graduation requirement is English too and and that's been a ch you know so like they have to take English and then they take five other electives which which I think sometimes um is could can get frustrating for the kid. Okay, thanks. Um,
052the other question is it Oh, so Adrian kind of posed the question about the my project being uh past fail and um it me personally with my experience at the university level like we have thesis, graduate thesis that are always uh effectively pass fail. Um, so I I've got no problem with that cuz I like your the points are made about um bas basically it helps creativity to not have a grade associated with it and kind of broadens the scope of the pro the the the range of the projects that people uh could turn in and kind of express themselves where so often times in high school I think they're looking for more ways where within high school they can do that. Um, and then the other just one more question. Um, I I think
053Adrian mentioned that the ASL isn't included as a world language for maybe I the IB program and I wasn't sure about that, but it is it like what does the state include? Is ASL included as a world language or is it just No. >> Yeah. for a long period of time, Mike. Um, believe it or not, the state did not recognize ASL as a world language, but in the recent years, they have recognized it. Um, so that's a good thing. And I'm sure that's why Fitch went ahead and and offered it as a part of its world language program >> and and we're now at the point where it's it's dual enrollment as well with Yukon. So, not only is it that, but they're also able to earn the college credit for the ASL class
054as well. Thanks. So that would count in that um area of graduation requirements or or not? I was confused on that. Okay, great. >> No, it does. It does. >> And and then um you can help me with this. I thought when a student takes say Spanish or or French uh one in 8th grade um that that that actually does show up on their high school transcript. So, um, they wouldn't then have to take like one more right now in high school or or to like basically that counts just the same as any other high school credit. But maybe there's something I'm missing on that because I didn't pay great attention to it. I must admit. >> Yeah, that go >> you know I I I'm sorry. I can't answer to that. I remember when
055I was the curriculum coordinator um Dr. for Whitney. Um students did receive credit at the high school and then as I slowly transition into um the principal the assistant principal role there was some discussion of not accepting the credit from the middle school and the reason was because it wasn't a higher level class that students at the eighth grade level were taking in the world language as to say there were no honors uh French or honor Spanish in the eighth grade that was comparable to the high school in order to receive credit. So, um >> yeah, >> go ahead. >> I I do think there at one point it was they were awarding credit at the at the middle school level. I'm not sure exactly what year that that went away, but currently they're not
056receiving credit for their their middle school world language, which I think you know it's really becomes a challenge to to uh you know make whether kids want to take that credit or they don't want to take the credit then it affects their GPA at the this was one of the biggest reasons was um at the middle school level was a college prep level as as Miss Hodgej was saying, but then a lot of our kids that uh would get the credit their eighth grade year didn't want it to count um as a credit because then it would affect their GPA and it it ended up be becoming really a administrative nightmare and trying to keep track of things and then parents wanting to or families, the student and the parents wanting to either go back
057on a decision to take the credit or not take the credit. Um, so at the current time they they aren't receiving credit for their eighth grade. >> Okay, thanks. I'm all set with questions. >> And Mike, just to go back, um, IB does not recognize um, ASL or American Sign as a as a world language. So, I just want to I I recognize I didn't answer that clearly before, so I wanted to make sure I I clarified that. >> Thanks. I guess I do have one more just process question. So, does the path of maybe we don't even know does the path of changing graduation requirements is it is it the next step to a board of ed COW uh to the like what what's the process to change requirements? I know that's done before
058and this is the first step. I just don't know what the next step is. >> Um if I remember so one of the reasons why we're here is because I think at at one point it came up at a at a regular board meeting. Um and then it was recommended that we come first to the curriculum uh meeting. So here uh because I'm sure this requires a vote because it is a policy. Well, is this a Yes, it's a policy. It's a policy. Huh. So does then I'm not clear I guess then because um require these requirements are a policy. But I'm wondering if it has to go to the full board or now if this is a recommendation to the policy committee. I'm not sure. >> I hope this doesn't have to go to
059policy first because that's that's going to make this process infinite like infinitely longer. >> And I'm I'm unclear even though I'm on policy. I'm I'm unclear on what the policy is. >> It's pol usually graduation requirements is a standard 6146 policy. >> Right. Read that. I don't know. I don't know what the policy says. Read that like that. >> It's 6146. Yeah, graduation requirements. Let me see. Um yeah, I just pulled it up. And actually there it says we've got 26 required credits. So um um four years English, >> three social studies, one world language, two other humanities and that totals up to 10. Um and then four science, four math, one additional STEM which makes it to nine. Then one credit PE, one credit health and safety education and one mastery based diploma assessment.
060>> The policy that policy has different categories for graduation year. So if you keep on scrolling down, >> you'll see we get up to 27. >> Oh yeah. >> So basically be adding another >> um >> 27 and beyond. Yeah. >> Um all right. Yeah. So actually it looks like world language is increasing from this graduating year of 26 to 27. So the students that graduate this coming spring will or this coming summer only need one year of foreign language. But the but next year it'll be the two years of foreign language in the policy. But yeah, I guess to go back to policy, um I guess we can leave that decision out of this meeting and just um you know, I can talk to the chair or maybe the policy, but it kind of
061seems like it's like to follow through that. We're going to have to talk about it in policy >> or is that something we need to speak with Chairman Washington about because she's the one that recommended it come here first? Um I don't Yeah, and I think that was just because of the tight schedule, but yeah, we'll we'll we'll not make a decision on where it goes next tonight. Um maybe we can make a decision that the curriculum committee is either in support of or not in support of um changing the requirement to 25. Um and then if it has to go to policy or it can just go to the full board, that can be to be determined, >> you know, >> and I don't think we have to vote tonight for for us or
062or ever as a curriculum committee. Um but I I I voice my strong support for the plan. >> Yeah, I think we could we could just make a uh statement of if we have consensus um that the curriculum committee was in, you know, that that either all the C the majority of the the members or all of the members agreed with this policy change. You know, I think that just in the referral wherever we end up sending it, if we made that statement, maybe it'll make things um go a little smoother down the line. Andrea. Yeah. >> Um this leads to my my final question and that was I guess a it's a question about process I guess. Um, one of the reasons that we had the second meeting was that we didn't that the
063the the uh IV course had changed and um it's it was passed off as though oh it was just the same thing only different. However, as I read through the changes, it's quite different. So my question is why if this is such a rush deal and it has to be done now this semester or else it can't be um implemented in the fall. What what happened? How did that happen? Why wasn't it brought to to uh the board so it could have been written last summer? That's my question. Yeah, I I'll speak a little bit because I think this has been talked about in the board for a little while. Um, but we've got a lot of things on the referral sheet and a lot of things to get through for the regular board meetings
064anyway. Um, so I think Ann Marie and I spoke about this in August um, as the most expedient way to get board conversation started on this topic. Um, so I think that's why we're here right now is to just get the conversation started and for the administration to get the general feel of at least some board members. >> Why wasn't the why wasn't this conversation started so that this could have been done last summer and not in this rushed condition that we're in? >> Well, I don't I don't know that I would call it that we're in a rush. I think in an ideal world, we would want this policy before February. Is that correct? Um like before students start signing up for classes would be the >> Well, I heard if you don't do
065it now, it's not going to get done. That's what I >> No, I I would say before FE before Feb before they make their class selections would would be >> Yeah. I I I think I I kind of I kind of interpreted that as um it's one more step that we weren't really thinking about if it's got to go to policy, but I mean we have >> No, I'm not talking about that. No, I'm not talking about it's going to policy. I'm talking about if this was such a rush forget policy that that it had to be implemented or it couldn't be run next year, why wasn't it brought to us so that it could have been written last summer? >> Are you talking about the course, Dr. Acriman? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. So,
066the course I think what happened with that is the um Mr. Morth or uh the other teacher who's teaching the course went to the um training this summer learned that's when that individual learned about the changes to the course and um so that was you know sometime late this summer July August whenever you go to the IB training and then came to me uh maybe when that person returned in late a you know when we all came back to well when the teachers came back to school late August September said there's been to change to this particular curriculum. I need to come to forward to the curriculum committee. At that point, we had you know uh pretty set agendas for if you remember se our September we had two meetings in September. Those agendas were
067already set and so the first meeting I could get it on was that October meeting. >> I see. All right. You answer my question and I will start being snarky. See how I like the answer to the question. Okay. And I apologize for that. Um, so I have one more question which will hopefully be quick. Um, before so if we as a district and and I know I realize that we're we're um because of my we have a capstone mastery requirement and we're going to keep that. Um, but if we didn't have that, if we chose to not do the the capstone requirement for a credit, um, in that list of 25 credits that the state requires, what would be different on that side? So, would they So, so if we because So, in that
068um I don't know if Mark is still able to put that um that graph back. >> Hold on. Um, >> are you seeing it? >> Yeah. So, if you can scroll up on that sheet other way. the other way. >> Yep. Yeah, the other way. >> All right. >> There we go. All right. Now, down just a little bit. >> Yep. There we go. All right. So, um, so in the, you know, in the in the tan or whatever color that is, which says capstone or mastery experience, it says 1.0 for for the state requirement and for the district, but we know that that's not really a requirement by the state. It's an option. So, I'm I'm just curious as to what the if we didn't have that option. So, if we just made that
069a zero, where would that credit end up on this sheet to total 25? Would it be in an elective or another? >> First of all, I I want to clarify it is a requirement through the class of 2027. >> Yeah. Yep. But it's not for what we're talking about. >> Not Yeah. Not for what we're talking for the purposes. But, um, you know, I I will, you know, I'll have Mr. Brown or Miss Hodgej contribute after me. It's a little bit difficult right now to say on the spot like it's you know when you put us on the spot like that we would probably want to talk as a as a committee have the department supervisors all together. Um you know it's it's hard on the spot to kind of say something and then we
070would be boxed in right now. Say for example, off the top of my head, I said general electives and then uh you know we would be kind of boxed in on something like that and uh you you know you might hold us to something like that and then uh you know we come back to that and really we would want it in I don't know then you know maybe later we would reconsider and we would want it in a as a STEM elective. So I think to make that decision now and you know not have the input of of our departments you know of our department chairs and um or the rest of the Fitch leadership team would be I think um would be a mistake on our part. >> Yeah. I'm not asking what
071we would do differently. I'm asking what the state requirement is. to the left side of that chart to add up to 25 if the state so if you went you know because in 2028 the state's not going to require capstone if that was a zero what would be different on the state side and in and I'm I'm not proposing changing anything or or asking you how we might get around this because I I don't think we should do that personally. I'm just asking from the state's point of view, what what what do they see as the 25th credit if you didn't have the um capstone? Do we know that? >> Yeah, I haven't seen a model in which they um you know, they have it as the optional, but I haven't seen a model in
072which they kind of replace it with a suggestion. I'm assuming they replace it with an elective. >> Yeah. I mean, it must be replaced with something and and if we don't know the answer to this, let's just maybe we can just bring it up later on and just say, you know, Yeah. Yeah. Can I just make a com because we are in IB school. Uh I I I believe the personal project is not an option as I understand it unless I'm wrong. >> Yeah. And we had offered or we're you know we had contemplated I know in one of our discussion that we just don't limit it there but as long as we're an IB school the personal project is a requirement at for the program. >> Oh yeah and please don't get me wrong
073I'm not saying that we should change that or for changing that. I'm just wondering in the state's mind what is their thinking if you didn't have the M mastery based you know what did this you know when the state came up with 25 credits what they want they think we needed to foreign language or >> the only thing that they've added in the last couple of years and I would say maybe the last two to three years is that 0.5 in financial literacy and u they've allowed you to add that in you know in a variety of different ways like for example we've added it here as a STEM elective um but they've given quite a bit of flexib ability to um districts in terms of adding that as an elective credit. You could add
074it in a variety of places because again it is an unfunded mandate. So um districts can for example you can have a math teacher teach it. You can have a CTE teacher teach it. I've seen even um school districts um incorporate it into social studies because maybe you could have it as part of an economics class. So they've given quite a bit of flexibility, but that's the only um that's the only uh requirement that they've added in the last couple of years. So I would imagine um you know you you might say that like in terms of a 0.5 that would be I don't want to say a replacement, but that's the only additional credit that's been added. >> All right. >> I I would agree with that. That's I I think I where I
075would see it is like that personal finance requirement would be part of that or uh some other course where um I can't even think of of of one but but I know like when we were looking at this in previous years personal finance was was being part of that when we were looking into how we were going to award kids that credit. >> All right. Well, I guess this is just a I was just wondering what the what the state's thought on the 25 credits were were. Um not that it not that it really should affect um the outcome of this discussion. So um so um is there any other questions, Mike or Andrea? All right. So, um I guess at this point, um I I don't know where we're sending it to, but um
076I guess I guess maybe we could just get a feel for the committee members feelings on whether we should whether we're in agreement with with um with this this change as proposed by the administration. >> I am. And I think it should go to the board. Forget the policy for now. >> All right, Mike. I'm I'm broadly in agreement. There might be a couple details that I'd still like to discuss, but I definitely u in strong support of of moving this forward. I bet it does have to go to the policy though. >> Yeah, I do too. But it doesn't we don't have to do that before that. >> All right. Yeah. And All right. And and I'm also in agreement um that this this seems like a great idea and and yeah, we can
077obviously we'll have a chance to talk about it again wherever that is. Um so um all right. Well, with that being said, um the next item on the agenda is future meeting topics. Um are there any um additions or changes that anyone has to future meeting topics? >> I would just say maybe this is a good place in the minutes to insert why we don't have to talk about the item that was tabled. Oh, yeah. Um, yeah, I guess. All right. So, I will explain that um right now for anybody that might be watching. Um, I was under the impression that the curriculum committee had to approve it um had to vote to approve the course change and then the board had to approve it at the CO. Is this Hajj? Oh, I'm >> just
078wondering if we can bid you a doo. >> So, >> good night. Can we >> Oh, all right. All right. Good night. >> Good night, guys. >> Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thanks. >> But, um, it you wouldn't go to the CO because it has to have a vote, correct? >> Well, all right. So, now I'm just going to explain what happened last time in that meeting. I my I should have reviewed since I am the chair I should have reviewed that um that policy but that policy specifically says just that the curriculum committee talk about it we don't have to approve anything and then it gets sent to a board and it says that specifically um that it goes to a board CO for a vote to approve writing the curriculum. Um
079what I in the meeting I was under the impression that the curriculum committee had to approve it and then we sent it to the board for approval. Um and I thought it was a regular meeting but I don't know that that matters. So that's why we didn't talk about it tonight and just because we did talk about it already. We so we were follow by not having it tonight and already voting on it was the only way we could get a vote on that. Um and it was actually the way to follow the policy. So, so I apologize to um to anyone if I wasted their time by not knowing that last time. Um but um but I think we got to where we needed to be um by getting it on the the CO
080on Monday. I think in the past we've talked about being board members saying why am I hearing this twice at the CO and now I'm hearing again same thing at the regular board meeting and they always wanted to just get it to the board. So that's my recollection. >> Yeah. Well, I think with the policy um with the policy modifications um you know, depending on how the board votes on that um we will it'll just be curriculum to approve writing the curriculum and then it will go to the board for a full vote after the curriculum's written. >> Right. And you're right, it goes that's the that's the potential change that'll hopefully save us something like a month in the um you know in the curriculum writing process. So, we'll have the minutes um reflect
081my error from last last month. Um and then I think we have another meeting coming. It'll be probably that first week. I don't have my schedule up, but it'll be that >> November 6th, I believe. >> November 6th. All right. All right. Um, so I think this is the end of the we did two meetings um last month and this month to try to get through some of this stuff so we could have it done in time for the um you know for the end of the year before the classes start you know before the the before um students start signing up for classes which is why we did these extra extra meetings. But um as it stands now I think we'll have one meeting in November and one meeting in December. >> What's on
082the agenda right now potentially for the November one? I I'd like to like in each meeting have at least one item that tries to take down our referrals. We've got a quite a long list. >> Oh yeah. Well, um I know this topic is on the referral sheet. Uh yeah. So maybe if we can put that Do you want to put um that on the on the agenda for next meeting and Marie to go through the referral tracking sheet rather than just future meeting topics? Sure. >> Um, so that that item will just say, you know, whatever referrals. Um, and then we can um maybe we can shorten that up now that we've done a few things on the referral tracking sheet. Um, but do you do you remember which one's next? Is it world
083language or >> um I'm going to I'm going to look at it right now. Uh, if you just give me one second to pull it up. It is world language. And if I recall also, you know what? But I don't want to speak out of turn, but I thought it had something to do with maybe one second. I'm sorry. It was It's November 3rd, not November 6th. It's world language offerings um you and I had talked about and possibly and I think um you know we were going to or you were going to speak with the other members about this possibly a review of AP and IB results um but you um we weren't sure because we know that the um Mr. Brown and his team were also going to be presenting to the full
084board. So, um you know, we we were going to you were going to speak with the members about that. >> All right. Yeah, we can um we can um we can talk about that. Um yeah, I'm getting some of that data. Um and then um and then I think we had well those are the two topics that I'm remember remembering off the top of my head when and there is one more for this year >> and December 1st uh is the next meeting and that's where we were going to speak about um uh honors advanced level credit and quality points. >> All right. That's right. >> All right. All right. Um All right. Sir, is there any other discussion? >> All right, Andrea. >> Motion to adjourn. >> Second. >> Not bad. Not bad. >>
085All right. All right. We are adjourned. Thank you. >> Thank you all. Good night. >> Thanks. >> Good night.