001So, it is now um 6:32 uh Tuesday, September 30th, calling the ad hoc budget procedure committee meeting to order. Um Ian Thomas, Jen White, Mike Whitney present along with Susan Austin and uh Rita I'm going to need some. [Music] It's a little difficult to understand. I don't know if it's the Wi-Fi or what it is. How do you say your last name? >> Pariac. >> Rita. >> Pariac. Got it. Yep. Okay. Um, let me uh try something different here. >> Now you sound fine. Now we can hear. >> Is that Is that better? >> Yeah, you can. Yeah, we can hear you now. >> All right. Very well then. Uh, so yeah, 6:32 Tuesday, September 30th, calling the meeting to order. Um all committee members present along with Susan Austin, superintendent and Rita Parak uh
002finance director. Um so uh the purpose of the meeting is to just kind of discuss the uh packaging presentation of the budget book and um some information stuff that uh the board has discussed uh wanted to have included up front. Um so uh with that um I'll open the floor to my uh fellow committee members to just kind of um talk about what uh their interests were. Uh, but before I do that, I guess I don't know. I' I'd like to hear uh the finance director just kind of maybe open up as well about uh you know, how how you typically present budgets and and what you like to how you like to lay things out. So, I just want to say that the bud the budget book in Gren I think is very detailed
003compared to what I'm I've been used to and what I've developed. Um, and I typically start with meetings with the departments and talk about staffing. Obviously, that's the biggest chunk of everybody's budget. So that's typically where I start with meetings usually in November with each um school and department to go over staffing needs and I send out templates of their other um you know fun their other objects non-sary related to have them submit you know what their needs are and we talk about that during those meetings as well. But um the biggest focus for the first couple months is the salaries. >> Is that a good start or >> um Yeah. Yeah. I mean uh you know typically we receive the book um you know we well ideally it happens sometime in January where uh
004you know we get the book and we start we open up the kind of the the review process and but histo areas where um we've struggled to get good clarity on on some information. So, um I'll I'll hand off to Jen White because I see your hand raised. >> Jen, >> yes. Hi. I was slowly getting my video and audio in. Um, Rita, I just want to say thank you, you know, for joining like the district first and foremost and the work that you and have provided and shared with not only with the finance committee and the board at the COW's. Um, it's very promising. So, thank you for that. And I know you're developing a good team. Um so definitely looking forward like not only um this ad hoc committee but also the finance
005and facilities committee working with you um you know to help um any one of us there should be six of us well five because I think I've counted twice but um would be willing to help and I know other members of the board as well. So, um, with that, um, you know, maybe Ian, we could, um, you know, since Rita shared what she normally goes through, we could sort of share, um, what we had discussed in the ad hoc committee and then just see like bounce things off of Rita for now. So, that was it. >> Yeah, I think uh, I think that'd be a great way to proceed. Um and uh I'll open the floor for Mike as well. Uh Mike, do you want to kind of have any opening comments? >> Yes, thank
006you. Thank you uh both for coming, everybody for coming. Um so one thing for the town of Graten is there's an extra layer that the budget goes through. Of course, it um goes to the finance director and the the the school district and the superintendent, then through the board, then to the town council, and then to the representative town meeting. And because of all those layers, I it's really important to have a I found a um a clear narrative in the budget book of um really mostly what they're worried about is what's changed um you know, increased or decreased. uh that that really kind of helps um the budget as an internal document um shepherd its own way through through the process. Um and one thing actually uh there are a lot of different ways
007of presenting the budget in the current budget book. Um I found actually the uh function code summary Rita that you just provided for the end of this last fiscal year. Um that's a a really good level that someone could very quickly go down and uh and and see where where money is being spent. um along with that and I I think it's probably in a lot of budgets too but it's been the tradition to have um not just the current year but then the the year before at least and then uh so that people can sort of uh see see the history of things that that because they are wondering well what's changed and seeing the numbers as well as the accompanying narrative really helps with that. Um, one, um, I think um, big improvement
008that, uh, we had last year that was, um, helpful was there was more things put in the district district-wide function code where before the, um, the benefits, uh, for the a company, uh, teachers and staff, uh, administrators were all like, um, kind of assigned to each like elementary teaching for instance, or high school or or a different department. And that got confusing because um it all depended exactly on what kind of benefits a person would want where in the end it just got last year put all in one group and that really helped things. We made that change last year. I'm hoping to see that still go forward because then you get a sense of okay this is how much budget benefits overall have changed and uh we're not like having to face that down
009here. Hold on. Sorry about that. Um and and so that's that's um I like seeing that go forward. Uh the other thing is just in general, it's always going to occur um particularly with a new director that you'll see someone will see they want u some expenses grouped differently than they were before. And when that happens, it just gets confusing in the budget. But that's where like a lot of extra narrative um helps that out to avoid the um oh my goodness uh you're not funding such and such anymore or now it's up by 200%. Things questions like that because having it go through smoothly are better. So those are my entry comments. >> Can I um speak about that? So, I totally agree with you. Districtwide benefits, workers comp, all that stuff should be
010lumped together. But I will have a change in function in our next um finance meeting for the budget book because we have state guidelines that um guide those function numbers. So whoever created the the the function last year for this budget book of 17 I think it was >> 1700 1700 right? >> Yeah. So seven anything that starts with a one is instructional according to the state of Connecticut. So I did have to change that function to a to start with a two um to 23.99. So you will see a transfer next week just transferring it into the correct function. So those are the only changes that I see moving forward um in the function side is is getting it into the function that the state requires us to report these expenses in and I'm
011going to give you guys a guideline on Tuesday of what the state requires. So in finance and facilities, we're going to go through that so that the board will clearly understand >> the numbering system >> so that if with this change, you know, and should there be any others, we'll at least understand why. Right. >> Right. >> And that sounds good. and and and to to just uh I think as long as you know there's some clear statement of that in the book >> as it as it passes through all the hands that it has to pass through I think that'll help ease a lot of uh questions and concerns. Um, one other thing uh that I had on my list that that was not covered already by Jen and Mike uh was the idea
012of trying to have all the FTEES associated with any given department on display in that department. Um, historically there there's been some times where some FTEEs that are not funded uh directly through the budget that are maybe grant funded or um aren't appearing in with the FTEEs of of that department even though they are part of that department. Um and one suggestion uh that was made was that maybe to include them all and just put a little notation next to them, you know, that the funding for their salary or um any given expenditure uh is associated to a grant and therefore not coming out of the direct operational budget. Um does that make sense? I definitely agree with the function the FTES by department. Um it might get a little tricky with the grant funding.
013Um but we can see what we can develop and and and see if it fits your needs, but I am used to FTEES by department even which includes grant funded positions. So it would be all FTEES for the whole district by department if that's what you're looking for. Yes. >> And um Rita, tell them how many grants we have now that you've gotten to know and love them. >> 47. There's about 47 different grants in our fund three, we call it. Um for last year, this is last year's um balance. I'm I've been balancing. We have the auditors coming out next week. >> So, I've been um you know, trying to balance with the town by grant. And uh yeah, there's there's 47. >> Great. That that's fantastic. And and um I imagine also that
014those will be highlighted and identified and we'll show the budget like the total amount of revenue that's used to support the school system and then like show how much of that is grant funded and then what the actual operational cost to the town is. I typically have a a grants page that it shows you the revenue for the grants. >> And then um I think that you already have the the page of um total funding for that includes like the ECS and the the revenue that the town gets for our budget >> that and that's a typical um spreadsheet and pie chart. I think I've already seen that, but I I'm not 100% sure if you have the total grants page and it's a projected revenue page >> because you don't know. I only can
015assume like title one's going to come in about the same amount for next year. >> You know what I'm saying? >> Understood. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Same with impact. >> We've had years where it's come in over six million >> and years where it's been right around four. So, and anywhere in between. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, I think one of the concerns that was relayed was just trying to make it really obvious and and emphasize how much the district works to defay uh the cost of the education on the taxpayer that you know every effort's made and all these grants are brought in and the actual cost of running is this but the actual operational uh bill so to speak that goes to the town is is significant significantly lower because of uh all
016these grants. that our teams uh work to secure. >> Um I see >> Thank you. Uh I see Jen Jen's hand. >> Hi. Yes. So, Rita, um just a question. I know we're talking about operational budget and then grants. I think it was Dean and um you know Ian correct me if my memory serves me incorrectly but I think it was Dean who was sort of looking to have at least for this year um here's the operational budget and then a column that shows the grants and then for like a total budget. I know we have it as like I think a pie chart in the current by um book. Is that something that you've seen in your prior district or in like your colleagues maybe or are we asking for something that is not
017really um you know like standard for >> I think in totality yes we can give that to you. you know, in totality, these are this is all of the grant revenue we expect and the the ECS and everything. And you can do a pie chart and it'll show you how much does the grant support the district and how much does the ECS and how much does the actual taxpayers portion. So yeah, I I think you can do that. Okay. >> But it's in totality. It's not going to be the grants are not typically not going to be itemized. Yeah. Um I don't know what Dean was requesting and did did he want it like for each function code or did he just want it in like one to two pages in the front? I know
018he's mentioned it several times. >> Um yeah, it's my memory. I I think he's mentioned it in a couple different frames. So I think you're right on both counts because he's he's thrown it out one way and I think he's thrown it out the other way. Um, but you know, I I could see the value in in in in seeing it broken out per function code. Um, but I could also see how that could become very tedious and um, and to what end >> and you know what would be the ultimate cost benefit analysis there. I know that we've had a page for grants in the past that really outlines um the the amount of money that we're receiving kind of each year. So you see the total amount of the grant over a five-year
019period and what the expectation is for the current or the next year and um we can look back at some of those just to see what they look like and take a look at it with you >> you know to see what you know and maybe that's in a finance and facilities dean may be referring to something like that that we've had in the past >> um and it was just a simple but it gave you an idea of each year what we were getting in addition addition to the operation costs in addition to the revenue that the town was bringing in. >> I have a template that I can use. I do have a template and and typically we give prior year and current year and projected >> so that see how the grants
020are moving whether we're getting less or more. But I'm going to say that the grants do not go by function. They are not tracked by function. They are tracked by object. So it they're different. >> Okay. Um well, you know, along those lines, maybe I I think also someone mentioned uh at some point the idea of maybe just including the grant reports that that are filed regularly anyway as as part of the appendix to the book. Um, so it wouldn't be like it would just be comp compiling those reports as they're submitted and just put them in as an appendix so they're there for reference sake and that could alleviate alleviate a lot of uh so because there's always a lot of curiosity as to like the actual particulars of where these grants hit >>
021inside the operational budget >> exactly >> and but I also you know very concerned of like not overloading or you know asking for too much detail you And you know the business office has a lot of business to attend to. So anything we do to streamline the process and include the information in a way that's if it's already being produced for the reports maybe just include the reports in an appendix. >> Yeah. >> Would that be relatively easy? >> Sorry, Jen. >> Yeah. No, I think that's good. Like I don't want the business office to create work if it's you know if it's not function code if it's not I think if we as a group whether it's this group or finance and facilities say hey yeah we um we just want it to show
022at a high level and then we can come into agreement on that and then reflect how many FTEEs those grants support. I think that would sort of be enough and then we need to tell the rest of the board that that's all we're going to get and that's enough detail. That's what other districts do and you know not burden and ask for more information. So I don't know where that's good. Yeah. So if we can >> the only issue with the reporting is grants being awarded on time because we do not put it in e finance unless it's awarded and some grants don't get awarded until January, >> February, you know, it's >> we count on it. But I'm just giving you a heads up that the state has gotten um more behind in the
023past. They used to award them in July years ago. It was nice because in July we could, you know, start running reports, but as of right now, title one, we can't even apply for >> we thought I it opened up and then, you know, they were still working on the numbers. >> We have the total amount of the number, but we can't put the budget in. >> Understood. >> That makes sense. >> I I do I understand that as well. And I I can see the problem. Um I have a thought about that, but I first I want to recognize Mike. I see. >> Yeah. Sorry. Thanks. Um yeah, I I guess I'd advocate for a middle road with the grants. Um we do uh already as mentioned have like an overview of how many
024how much grant funds is coming in and that's that is helpful very helpful as an overview. Um, but perhaps a mil road would just be I guess if it's 47 grants, maybe two pages of this, but like a a oneliner on like the this this grant is this um it's it's awarding agency. um it's you know it's term it's project span and then just like a a short oneliner on on what it is and um and if if you wanted to add another liner there that said this supports two speech pathologists or something like that um that that might be good so people could just get a a quick sense of what's there um that rather than because I I wouldn't want to have what could be hundreds of pages of project reports tacked on
025the end. Uh but then like along with that page somewhere just um have a website to point to where >> where it may may or may not have the project reports. Uh, I guess I would prefer that, but it'd have more information where we'd have um the information more people would care about like highlights about um you know um there the goals of each one, highlights of accomplishments and there are plenty um and just you know point to that in the document say you can go to such and such website for more information because that that I think would help. Um, I almost think sometimes we need um I don't know if you get your your tax bills that say uh your mill rate would be such and such if not for um state funding.
026It's kind of the equivalent um you know the town would have to pay such and such if not for all this grant funding through competitive grants and categorical grants that come through. Oh, um and I just one more comment. Um uh we right now like in the budget document have things by function code and then also uh by object code. I've seen value in both of those. It sounds like at least with the grants there's definitely value there. But I was wondering if you thought as that that does make the budget book long, but is that worth keeping? Um both of those perspective. I think my opinion is it should be by major object not by specific object and by major object what I mean is a hundreds is salaries 200s is benefits 300s is
027you know what I give as a summary um because we there's so many object codes and and to go down to the level of detail of $100 in supplies from the music department I'm just you know making something up but I just think that's a that's a lot but it is it is a projection so you know we can keep it the way it is. I just I think it should be more by the major objects, but and it could be certified, non-certified, you know, we could split it up that way and and tuition versus other purchase services, you know, but I just think there's I don't even know how many objects we have, but there's a lot. >> Understood. Um, have you ever seen it uh in in the um uh as far as
028like salaries go? Seen anything like broken up as opposed to just being certified or non-certified being broken up by like title or or category of of position? >> I mean, I've seen like, you know, non-certified, certified stipens, overtime, double time. I've seen it like that. I just think there's more here than I'm used to. like in the supply area supply. There's like so many object codes for supplies when in my opinion a lot of them could be just um called instructional not I'm trying to think there's like >> utilities utilities are a supply we that disagregated from your regular instructional supplies >> right you could have instructional and and utilities but we have it down to the level of 615 is special ed supplies I've ever seen it at that level? Special ed supplies, what
029you know, so we're I think I I just think we have a lot of 600s and we really should look at why they're separated. Why is there a 615? Why isn't it just instructional for special ed? Special ed is the function, not the object. >> That's interesting. Yeah. No, that that's that's a great area to explore. I'd be curious to know like, you know, how how we got there and and what was the reasoning, but um >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. But if you have a a different approach that you think might be more efficient and more streamlined, um I'm definitely open to hearing all those things. >> The function should tell you what it's for, you know, what department, but this the object should tell you what are you buying. 615 says special ed.
030You're not buying special ed, you know, >> right? you're buying instructional or you're buying um software, you know. >> Yes. >> Yeah, >> makes sense. >> Yeah. Um Mike, I see is your hand I see your hand still up. Are you >> Yeah, I I had it hanging up and then I put it down and put it back up. But >> um I was wondering so so one thing about my understanding of the budget document is that it was kind of brought in by from multiple sources like in the function code breakdown there's an explanation of the FTEES a chart and that's where the narrative is that was probably one document and then another one was um anel excel spreadsheet which would have the actual numbers and so kind of keeping those two things consistent
031my guess It took a lot of like people time and double-checking. Um, >> right about that. >> I am concerned about that. >> Is are we so the hope is if we get new or another software like that that that would kind of go away, but is that realistic to expect for this year? My feeling is maybe not. Or are we stuck with the old system or we we have brighter futures ahead for the the new software? Munis is at least two years away. I'm going to say that because it's it's a huge um conversion. Um I'm not sure how good E Finance's budgeting system is. I'm trying to look into it a little bit because they all have a budget software, but it takes a lot of manpower to get it up and running.
032Um but it also takes a lot of manpower to do it in Excel. So, it's like I want to explore it and see what it looks like. I definitely want to start using position control >> um because that is for the bulk of the budget which is salaries. Um that is something that really really helps cut down on mistakes in FTE or from one spreadsheet to another spreadsheet. You know, it's all manual work. position control. You can you can put in every single position inside the software and then run a report or a query and and and so I'm really I really want to put that in place before Munas. >> Sounds like that be helpful. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If I could just ask a quick clarifying question. Um when you say position control,
033could you just explain what that term means? Um how that would function or how that plays out? So it it creates a number for every position that you have in the district. So every FTE depending if it's a full-time or not. Even part-time FTEs have a position number. And in Windom when we went to Munice, I created a scheme, a numbering scheme in possession control that would tell you, okay, when I look at this number, I know it's a teacher and it's at Charles Barnum. you know, you could tell by the number where the actual position is. >> Got it. Okay, that sounds fantastic. So, that's >> it's really a great tool that >> Yeah, >> you especially the district this size, you need it, >> right? >> Agreed. Agreed. >> I really want to
034hopefully have um the time to implement the position numbers before the budget book. It's just it's a it's a lot of work because we're starting from scratch. Nothing is in there right now. >> Understood. Understood. Uh I see Jen >> slowly getting there. Um that is that a software and do we need to purch investment in that or >> no it's inside e finance and unisex that's why it's a module. Think about it as there's AP module, there's inside human resources, there's a thing called position control and it's a numbering system and you put in for like every teacher, every secretary, every every single person in there >> because I think you know like um one of the things we've been hit with is like transparency, right? Not that I'm saying we're going to share
035this information because I disagree with sharing it, right? But to be able to communicate to the people who fund us that hey, we have this in place and we know that each position is accounted for each um and I think it will alleviate that uncertainty sometimes that we get feedback for. So this is this is welcomed news that um this is something that we don't need to buy. It's already exists and it's a matter of just finding the time to implement it. So, >> and the way we >> This is good news >> is to do these things in einance while we've got einance so that everybody understands it and then when we move to munice it'll be an easier lift because you're switching over systems but you've got it organized the way >> understanding
036what it is is the main goal here like for my staff because they're new you know um understanding what what position control does and it also tracks the funding source. Um, it tracks the school, it tracks the, you know, the location, it tracks a lot. I know they have an upgrade. E Finance came out with an upgrade, but I guess you have to pay for that upgrade. So, I want to see first if I can just use what we have um the position control that we have and and not buy the upgrade because if if it works as it is, we might not need the advanced um functions. Yeah, especially if we're going to transition over in two years. Yep. >> Yeah. Know that makes sense. >> Makes sense to me. >> Thank you. >>
037Um that addresses one of the other concerns I had in my list um as far as like tracking salaries or >> you know. Yeah. So, as Jen said, you know, it just leaves a lot of relieves a lot of questions and concerns, you know, ahead of the curve. So, um >> leaves a lot of the manualness out of it. >> Yeah. That's why I want to do it because trying to track cuts and and all of that is very hard if you're doing it just in Excel. >> Understood. That sounds like a great way to streamline what we have. Um, anybody else have any anything uh else to share? Um, I've exhausted my list. >> Well, I guess it's a a question and wondering more than anything else. Um what do you think collectively our
038our next step forward should be? We we've lived with the budget document for a while and kind of grown accustomed to it and it's added on helpful helpful parts. Uh Rita is would it be useful like worth your time? And this is a real question. Would it be worth your time to look through it and say like um keep you know just broad brush um this is a really helpful section keep this um we could do this differently and then kind of like give that to us for input or uh that'd be kind of one way like let's let's try and overhaul this a little bit to help help um uh you and um like kind of take us a step along the way towards for instance Munice eventually um or should we u be
039concentrating on smaller changes this year and keep the budget book sort of as it is because that way you can spend your time and your off your office's time on other things. Um those kind of what I've been wondering as we've been going through the meeting. I've heard helpful comments. I'm just wondering what our next steps are for this year in our current situation. I definitely think we should take small steps because of this position control that I want to implement to be able to pull the numbers for the budget, you know. So, if there's glaring object code things that I just feel like, oh, we shouldn't have we should just combine these two. I'm just making up an example. Um, I think we should do that, but to I I don't think we should
040overhaul it this year. If that make if that's Did I answer your question, Mike? >> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. >> I didn't want to be helpful without being helpful. >> Great. Um, Jen, anything else? >> Yes. So with with that comment of not overhauling, totally agree, not mass, but you know how you had mentioned the supplies um and like consolidating just the supplies. Are we are you is that part of your small consolidation? >> I think that's the biggest thing is the supplies. I can look at the other objects and see if there's glaring like why do we have you know so many and but I I think that the supply one is the one that just sticks out in my head that it it's doesn't make sense some of those objects they're more of a
041function than an object and we already have the function attached you know so um small things like that and and I want to make sure that all the functions are accurate like I said with the whole benefits um district-wide number. That's awesome that we have a district-wide number now for benefits, but it was just the wrong um sequence, the wrong, you know, you know what I'm saying? >> Because of the state law >> because of the state reporting what you're supposed to be using and there was an error. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Yeah. No, that's that's totally fine. I was just trying to understand like what you would consider small and big. I would I would small I just think I do think we need like a a revenue grants page if we don't have
042that. Um, and until I dive into every single page, I won't I I'm not going to be 100% sure, but I really want to focus on developing that position control, which is going to take a couple months, you know, um, because we have so many staff and every single staff member, it's a unique number for every FTE. So that you are tracking >> and being >> and is it unique to the person or the position? So let's say >> for the position. Okay. So let's say I'm teacher number 12 at Charles Barnum and I move over to Mystic because they have an opening. So when I move I'll now be like teacher number 22 at Mystic and then when you hire a new person they'll be teacher number 12. >> Yes. >> Or whatever number
043I use. >> Specific to the position. >> Perfect. That's Yeah. Okay, thank you. Ian, I think I'm all set regarding questions for now. So, >> okay. Um, sounds great. Uh, I again I just want to thank uh uh thank you Rita for taking the time to meet with us and um thank you for loaning her out uh Susan. >> Oh, absolutely. We're >> I do have one more thing. >> Wonderful having her. >> Oh, sure. >> Yes, please. is working on the budget calendar. Will that be something that we do soon? Do you have an actual calendar that specifies when we meet with the departments, when we meet with the, you know, date ranges? >> We we have one that we've used and it goes very much like what you did that you start internally,
044you know, to get everybody's ideas and FTEEs are the biggest thing. So, we do this the position control, the salary piece. So that's probably ultimately the first thing to consider you know when you talk about timelines and next steps. Um and then you know meeting with the principles meeting with the department heads and they're used to doing that and you might have a form that looks a little different than what's been used before because you know um we've had a few people in that office. So um but they're used to gathering the information. basically they know what their function is and then they know what the objects are underneath them. So they're, you know, everybody, you know, the principles have been here for a while, long while, and the directors have been here, so they're
045used to doing it that way. But if you have other ways of doing it, you know, bring them on. I think my only concern is the outside companies that we need estimates from like MDG liability. Those I I just want to know going into the fall. What deadlines are we going to give them to get us the information, you know, for insurance? Basically, it's all b, you know, employee benefits, but you're getting it from different sources. Lori can fill us in, but when we meet with John Bert um you know Monday to talk about the audit, >> we can always bring that up to him as we go into this budget season. What does he predict >> because they're usually the ones who are bringing them in, but I know that Lori has reached out
046before in the past too >> because sometimes that slows things up. >> Yeah, I know. Yeah, >> that's all. And those are big numbers and and the benefits I'm not sure how it was developed in the past but um I have you know spreadsheets and formulas that I use to help develop the um benefit costs because there are contributing factors like retirees contribution and employee contributions. So >> well that that would definitely help. I don't know if you all remember um Ian, Mike, and Jen, but it seems like we waited a while to get the MDG information on um insuranceances. >> Yes, there was always >> like that came later in the process. We were waiting and waiting and it we finally got it. >> Usually I'm usually not getting it in window till January.
047>> Yeah, like late January, early February I felt last year. But the one thing the one thing that we discovered was uh it's definitely better to have some kind of placeholder number that approximates the estimated amount >> as opposed to just having a a zero figure. >> Oh yeah, I agree. I agree. If definitely if we could have like just last year's and bump it up a little bit until you get the numbers from MDG. >> Yeah, makes sense. All right. Um, anything further, Bev? Uh, do you want to jump in? >> I didn't even know Bev was on. >> Yeah. Yeah, I see you're in the list here. I guess I'll take that as a note. Um, so yeah, if there's nothing else, um, I would entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> A motion
048to adjurnn. >> All right. Seconded by Jen. And, uh, without objection. Very helpful.