001good evening everybody it's 6 p.m on Tuesday March 11th 2025 and I'm so glad to welcome everybody to the Gren board of education's regular policy committee meeting for March 2025 uh I note that our members uh Andre Andrea Akerman and Ian Thomas are here our chair Bev Washington is here superintendent Susan Austin uh Ray angle our business manager or Director of Finance I'm not quite sure which are both terms and of course the inimitable Kate who is going to see that we are saved for posterity so the meeting is called to order I'll start with a review of the minutes uh let me start first is there anything of Crisis nature that needs to be dealt with before we start the regular business hearing nothing we'll start with the minutes of the meeting of Monday
002February 24th is there anybody who'd like to make any corrections additions deletions here hearing no comments I'll invite a motion what are we moving Andrea you want we want to move the okay those minutes that you just said okay understood do I have a second second Thomas thank you okay is there any discussion on the minutes hearing none I'll ask ask for all those in favor to please indicate by saying I Andrea sorry okay three in favor none opposed none abstained we're moving over to our agenda items for tonight our first item is a discussion on policy 3160 transfer of funds between budget functions so I'll start out by inviting Andrea and Ian does either of you or do both of you have any comments you'd like to make on this I'm so sorry I
003didn't get home time to review these first but I have a lot of stuff here and um one of the things I have um I have an arrow down to the uh third paragraph and I say you explain this to the public um and what do we have a superintendent for and that's for um see you know let me let me just for clarification uh we got several versions in the uh packet and I want to be sure we're all on the same page I'm looking at the packet that none of them are dated we'll talk about that later uh I'm talk looking at the packet that is green type plus red Ty red Bard type so that is your cape sample um that has been just taken the S I believe it's just taken
004the sample probably with a couple other paragraphs from have a separate page with C samples right I know but I'm just saying when it's C when it's green like this what we've done is this is the new language for the um policy the red is what's been stricken black is what we've had where there is no black the the first to the best of my recollection the first copy that we worked on back in November or December um was black and green and right that's and this has red at the bottom and that was the first version that we looked at that was amended by us and went to the board and uh was sent back to us I have what I believe and this is the problem without without having dat lines on it
005I think we're on another version now let me hold it up can you see this that's what's in our packet well no I got three different ones in the packet right but that yeah that's that's the one that we had been working off of I think okay so that's is that one you is that the one that you were talking about yes that's the one I'm referring to Andrea was that the one you were referring to um it start your third paragraph starts the board May transfer any unexpended right but before that now that I see this look if you look at the first one it says the board uh looks to the central office to inform it of potential uh line item over expenditures it's difficult for me to see this uh all transfers
006of funds between the accounts of of the B budget shall be uh in harmony with the law and shall be approved by the um yeah approved by the superintendent with board approval I'm not sure what that means so um and then okay good so so I'm just trying to find out that we're all working with the same document that's all so it appears that we are okay so I guess I should take some notes on your comments uh there going to be more paper yeah Matthew if I if I could jump in yeah please please um so this is one of those moments of uh I'm not sure exactly where this um version came from because what was uh passed out of the uh budget procedure committee initially um was the version that had like
007blue ink and green ink that's correct that's the one I have here the blue ink one the blue ink one all right so I could project that up I mean that that's kind of like where I like again I'm not sure where the green ink one came from um but you know was my understanding that you know we're handling the stuff that was passed out of budget procedure committee Ray have you seen any of these versions I know you had forwarded the cave version which I always like to start with we've always used cave and I don't know I think you have some of the cave language in the Blue version too Ian it looks like but not all of it yeah it's got other language too I mean that was the whole that was
008the whole point of the budget procedure committee was uh Mike Jen and I um you know work together to to kind of come up with amalgamation that was based Loosely on C but also modified to fit our what we felt was our particular situation here and as you know we have to go through policy to write policy so that's why we're trying to figure this I take I really don't want us to get into a argument about what we were doing and how we did it let's start with we're not arguing I'm just saying that that's why we've got these different versions I think so I'm going to make a request to you Susan I have been begging for three years that every document that's going to be more than one time that every single
009document have a date on it and whatever the title of the document is and ver one version two we spend here at every meeting and it's at at at cows and at regular meetings shuffling papers trying to figure out which version we are and what page we're on we just got to be cons well I know you work closely with Erica to make sure that they that we get what we need you're not hearing me I know you're listening but you're not hearing me we need to have all documents with a Dateline on it to save everybody a lot of time you know the date it's in this packet no it's not the only thing that's on it is the dates on I have three documents here there's nothing on any of the documents that
010indicates the date of origin of the document and what happens at our meetings again and again is that people are shuffling trying to figure out which document they're on the easiest way to deal with that in my opinion is to have every document carry a date 25311 2025 3rd month 11th date version one or two or three then when whoever is conducting whatever meeting it is if there's any question about what we're doing they can refer to a document by name everybody has the document you stay on the same page and save an enormous amount of time we know the document's name it's p316 transfer of funds between budget functions all three of these documents carry the same name Susan well no the one I'm looking at says between categories and amendments but it's not
011dated and they all say one thing or another uh we can have that conversation later I think we may need to have a policy on documentation but that's not going to be for tonight okay so this is the one that's up here now that that we're considering the one that I have is not the one but um it should be in the agenda packet Andrea probably but um the order that I found them was the green Inc black ink and then blue ink so why you put them side by side so people could see the K version and the version that your committee came up with because um people might like the cap version so you might want to see if you could put them side by side so people could see what the difference
012is as you go along we did discuss that at the last meeting we did this we did do this at the last yeah but is this the one that's up now is that the one that we're supposed to be yes so so I'll tell you the way that we did this is that the blue Inc is cave language um but it's my understanding that the document that's in green is the document as a result of our working at our last working session and that that's as far as we got and we ran out of time and that we just rolled it over to the next meeting which is now and that the green what is in green is Andrea I'm sorry not Andrea's is Erica's retyping or reformatting the work as far as we had
013gotten at the last meeting now it does that fit with your recollection Susan Andrea and Ian yes we've seen these documents before yeah but the word board should be in parentheses after Board of Education because I see a lot of those those mistakes and that's then that was the document that we started with and we're not on that document any longer we that doesn't mean we can't go back to it we are now on the green document right and then after Board of Education should be in parentheses the board it is on the green doc it is on the green document could you put up the green document Ian uh yeah give me one second here I'll get to it pull it up yeah okay so now that we're talking about I'm looking at the
014two versions I see what you're saying Matthew and I think that that is correct that the green ink version was where we were um why don't we put that we're by no means done no we're not by we're not done but let's put up the green and if we need to go back to the blue we can always go back to the blue for language I mean actually I do like the first paragraph um in the blue better because it basically mirrors exactly the first paragraph in the cap sample and it basically says that all transfers of funds between accounts of the budget shall be in harmony with the law then that's the language in C we talked about that and shall be recommended by the superintendent and I think that's a much better paragraph
015than the one in the green yeah do you think what do you think Ray could could we have the committee do its deliberations and get your input as we go i' rather have it to your committee meeting that's our responsibility I'm just trying to help you out Matthew I know but I would am trying to go from where we were especially if my name's on it I want to know what I've got to do it's our name that's on this document so no I'm saying I'm responsible for doing the work of this so I've got to make sure that I've got this done right may I so then may I go ahead we are now on the first paragraph where we the last time we worked on this document this is where we I don't
016want say ended up this where we suspended action um Andrea you made it wanted to make a comment or did you want to make a comment on the first paragraph well I'm not sure which because the one I'm looking at is in Black not in green can you see what's on the screen yeah and um yeah the one that I have that's in green is not the board is not after as it appears there so this is the one that's on the screen could you enlarge it a little bit to make it easier I would ask that too thank you so okay the only difference that I see between uh what was in the blue and this one is that it has three words at the end with board approval which I believe was the
017recommendation of the committee that the U well it also says the other difference is that it's recommended by the superintendent all right so it shall yeah so um and then it's shall be recommended by the superintendent with and yeah so that is another difference yes but Ray what are what are your thoughts on with board approval in that first paragraph sorry I had to unmute I it's it's a little confusing I would just say superintendent is recommending it for board approval that that's what really what you're doing yeah I agree so shall be recommended by the superintendent for board approval or board approval right okay that seems a reasonable edit that sounds fine yeah you're pretty good typing skills there you get a lot ofac better than me when people are watching let's put it
018that way okay so let's go to the second paragraph the board will receive a written explanation of non-emergency transfers performed by the superintendent or design for the previous month in the monthly budget and expense report and I think we saw a sample of that rate didn't we with when we had to um convert over the funding for the nurses to the yes so that was actually he he's done that yeah I provided that in the packet for with the request for the transfers right right yeah so I mean that that's all consistent with policy and yeah yeah basically this is just kind of codifying what's been done yep um yeah so no no objections here from any committee members or Administration no no that's normal that's normal process okay I do have some questions about
019the third paragraph Does anybody else have questions I'll hold mine till last we're on the third now yeah um okay can somebody read that out loud it's very difficult for the can you blow it up a little bit more I too I'm over 30 well that you're not alone the board May transfer any unexpended or uncontracted portion of any appropriation for school purposes to any other item of such itemized estimate expenditure don't do that thank you oh thank you okay expenditures in each fiscal year shall not exceed the Appropriations made by the fiscal Authority combined with such money as may be received from other s sources for school purposes do either you Andrea or Ian have any comments for improving that I'll just uh just just as explanation this also came uh part and parcel
020from the cave language it did it's almost identical yeah Susan can you do me a favor can you explain that paragraph to me let's have Ry explain it so it we're not supposed to be transferring um except when it's for school purposes that you know need that to happen and I think in one of the other policies we said in emergency situations um and that we can't exceed any Appropriations made by the fiscal Authority um with the money as it's received and this is a this a relatively new paragraph that didn't come from the old old versions I know that uh I have some struct some some issues with this paragraph too but Ian you had something you wanted to say first yeah um so if you go to the black Inc uh draft in
021your agenda packet basically that's that's what cab had in their manual and if you skim through it you'll see there's three different versions of this policy and um one is extremely excessively stringent and one is um very uh loose and the other is kind of a Middle Road um long story short the way I understand this paragraph basically the first sentence says that the the board or you know via the uh you know superintendent May transfer any uh unexpended or uncontracted portion of appropriation so meaning like within the budget could be moved from one function code to another or from one line item to another um in you know with proper notice you know like as as explained before um now the second sentence expenditures the total expenditures I believe that means in each fiscal
022year should not exceed the appropriation made by the fiscal authority meaning the Town Council and RTM in our case um combined with such money as may be received from other sources for school purposes that phrase is the one that you know was of much contention back during we were talking about impact aid but long story short it comes down to the fact that you know we get what we get um at the end of the budget process from the town um through the Town Council and RTM and that's our cap on spending for the year what happens within the budget from one function code to another typically yeah there's not a lot of changes nor um but if there are or if there needs to be this is a policy that guides that process um
023I say something sure B okay I I don't understand in that first sentence and maybe Ray can explain it to me as a business manager when it says other item of such itemized estimate explain that to me could I break in B because basically I I look at that like for example at the end of last fiscal year we had about a $50,000 Surplus that we transferred over into the non-aps account and then we had the other 300,000 and change that we moved over into nonap in I look at that in the same manner because we did not exceed the fiscal Authority uh in the total dollar amount but we did move that money into a a different bucket you know I mean that that's the way I look at it um and the same
024at the end of the fiscal year if there are monies and some districts will take funding from let's say function 1101 and move it to function 2130 let's say because they're trying to balance each line some districts do that we may uh that may be something you may want we may want to consider down the road uh as part of the function with this once once you get a full-time business manager um and we get training there's a long list of things that need to be done before we're ready to move at that pace but many districts will do uh what they call balancing transfers at the end of the fiscal year to so that things the the different lines will Zero out the board will have to approve those transfers as well so it's
025things like that that that do occur well let me share my concerns about this paragraph um Andrea asked for clarification on what it meant Bev asked for clarification on what it meant and one of the things that Andrea has taught us is that where're or at least I've learned from Andrea is that sometimes less is more I don't think that's policy whatsoever I think that's matter of Statute there's nothing in there that is a policy of our district everything in there to me appears to be a matter of law Rey am I correct or incorrect in that assumption in that statement you could you could understand it that way yes okay that being the case I would like to offer a substitute to that paragraph but let me recognize Andrea first well no you I
026have to turn off my timer and then you do yours and maybe your whatever you're you're you suggesting will uh address what I'm concerned about okay thank you Andrea so I would uh hypothetically relieve that and we're now going to start with a single paragraph that will incorporate a line I'm going to add plus most of the material that is in the subsequent paragraph um Matthew do you happen to have your recommended uh Revision in a typed fashion no okay um that's a pretty straightforward answer um well if you dictate it to me I can type it up real quick and we take a look at it on the on the board here so the superintendent and and this is a proposal it may it may need some work the superintendent shall provide notification of
027any transfer made under emergency circumstances to the board chair within 24 hours all right hold there for a second this this we're talking about our policy as oppos to to state law now well it actually should be based on state law though everything we do should be based on state law but there's no need for us to repeat state law and particularly when it results in our members who're pretty fluent in this stuff not understanding what it's saying okay is that first sentence then we would add to we there in the next paragraph the second sentence in the next paragraph starts an emergency is defined as and we would move that sentence uh right after the sentence I just gave you okay the paragraph will now continue the board and will continue with what appears
028as the next paragraph but I'm going to make one change uh or ask if we should make a change the board shall provide a written explanation of any of a transfer made under emergency circumstances to the Town Council and representative Town um representative Town Mee it's not me it's not members it's meeting representative town meeting yeah I'm not sure what happened there RTM my question on that line is whether we should put in a time frame or not maybe you know whether it's two minutes or 20 years but you know maybe we should give him four or five we'll be busy if it's an emergency so we don't want to have to put ourselves in a in a corner anyway why don't you put it like as soon as possible very good that sounds fine
029to me shall provide a written explanation of a transfer made under emergency circumstances as as soon as possible to the Town Council and representative town meeting RTM then we go on um think hang on one second my eyesight is is failing so this is taking me a little bit I think that's all we need to do for this uh and then uh my only other question uh and that is the the line this communication should promote a positive relationship that is not a policy statement that is a value statement it's a I was think so I think we can just take it out that was it's not that we don't agree with it but uh the more succinct we can be in our policies tighter we are so could you read that would you read
030that back in for everybody to hear oh well you got it on the screen there um I'm sorry I'm just I'm looking at something else okay then can you blow it a little bit more my eyes are really not working I on the screen so I'm gonna read this this paragraph starting the superintendent shall provide one more time see what you all think superintendent shall provide notification of any transfer made under emergency circumstances to the board chair within 24 4 hours an emergency is defined as an urgent sudden and serious event or an unforeseen change in circumstances that necessitates immediate action to remedy harm or avert imminent danger to Life Health or property the board will shall provide a written explanation of a transfer made under emergency circumstances to the Town Council and representative town
031meeting as soon as possible and that would be the end of the policy yeah I have two things so this this only applies to emergency things but as I understand it you know if if we um let's say that uh five teachers retired and we didn't know that we had $500,000 that we didn't expect to have I thought we could just move that to uh maybe supplies or uh whatever we needed and and that that that that those funds could just be moved around um but is it different for an emergency is that like when the things went out at at uh Fitch High School when the there was flooding or whatever there was up there no you know to to be honest like the the problem with the way things uh happened with this
032like the the original blue ink um draft was um far more nuanced and and and kind of talked about the regular transfers and also emergency transfers so there was a difference between emergency and so what actually I mean because what's really an emergency versus what's like like a tending shortage that that we want to compensate for and that we anticipate an overage in another section that you know we think we can we can ease the stress you know by moving something over there you know we move that okay yeah like like this go yeah so go no I want you to finish so let me I are you done let yeah yeah I am I am for now I want to hear what Andrew has to say and Andre my my last question is that
033do we always provide a written explanation to the to the Town Council and the town of the RTM it should be I believe it's part of uh the um what am I trying to say the charter if I'm not mistaken okay then then okay I'm all right with that then yeah we were certainly letting them know constantly last every month there was something new I know right and I can dovetail nicely with the financial report the monthly financial report yeah if it's part of the charter I'm okay with it and and if it's different from just moving monies around that we didn't know we had them but now we need them over here right so I guess the question that I'm hearing it wasn't articulated in this way is do we need does this policy
034need to discuss transfer of of funds in non-emergency situations between budget categories do we need to articulate that I would like to see I I interpret the first paragraph as as that that that function that's what I basically that's what I did this past week R what do you mean when we transferred the uh to the nurses to uh the non-aps account and to the um H God the the um impact suppl right you just move it yeah we we took it out of the budget because it was never in there and and we moved it over uh to the non-lps we did a transfer there now again if I I interpret this is also if we're going to move money to a board approval without written Authority oh and that's what I take the
035first two paragraphs all three of them tell me that I mean I I don't want to over complicate it but I also I don't want to see you guys spinning your wheels saying the same thing five different ways either right right thank thank you Ian can I just add this because in your blue section as I look at your blue the board authorized the superintendent or his designated to transfer funds from any item in the amount of less than 10,000 under emergency conditions if there's that urgent need so that's the very same paragraph just about as in this dark black C original policy which says the superintendent or his designate is authorized to transfer the funds any line item in the amount less than 10,000 under emergency conditions um I don't know what happens if
036it's $111,000 what I do then but um and and then it says under emergency conditions if the urgent need for transfer prevents the board from meeting in a timely fashion to consider such transfers all transfers made in such instances shall be announced at the regular scheduled meeting of the board and a written explanation of such emergency transfers will be provided um to the legislative bodies and municipality um um right which in the blo version I changed a Town Council and RTM yeah yeah yeah so I mean that seems to I don't know if we need the $10,000 limit um but that language to me seems pretty succinct as well yeah and that's actually something I would like to I think that would be good to have as a finishing paragraph to this policy because as
037Ray identified the first two paragraphs identifies like it's it's it's okay to it's allowed to do under regular business as long as it's submitted for board approval um and and just for everybody's edification the physical transfers are not done until I get that board approval we just completed those transfers this past week I know it was like a week and a half ago you approved it but we wanted to make sure we had all our eggs in a basket and we will not transfer unless we know it's right and there's no issues with it that's what I understand from the past yeah what about for this emergency situation though Ray um we got the new newly suggested paragraph and then there were two other paragraphs that were in there was the one in cab and
038then the one in blue we've in my prior life we did that in uh Vernon we had a boiler blow that we had to transfer some funds to get the deposit and we had to move them out of some accounts over into a a facilities account and then we had to go for Capital Appropriations after that but uh long story short the superintendent was authorized to get the and it was a $200,000 boiler we had to come up with like 30 40,000 fast and we had to put that down to get the boiler in long story short superintendent and business office authorized the buy through notification electronically of the board that we were going to do that because it was the middle of winter things had to get done and you for the safety of
039the kids sometimes you just you can't delay something like that so um I understand I I think by putting a dollar limit on it you might be you might be tying the hands because if you can't hold an emergency session the although today it's much easier than it was six eight years ago um with with zoom and everything else um you can you could call a zoom session and do an electron um a virtual session um right yeah and state law allows you know 24 hours notice to have that meeting you know so like and and and even less so if it's an emergency emergency like you know under like there's qualifications in the foi act that allows for exent emergencies that that you know certain safety Provisions things like that yeah so you you've
040imported you've imported uh Ian you've imported the paragraph from the blue P um how do we M that how do we meld that with what we've done so far well um I would say I would think let's take it paragraph by paragraph everything that's in yellow is still in debate uh as far as I recall like we kind of got as far as you know we're looking at the third paragraph As maybe possibly uh getting rid of the short one the board made transfer and replacing it with your proposed um version Matthew the one above it um and the difference though is Ian that the one above it is under emergency circumstan es so Perhaps Perhaps Perhaps we would like to raise the second highlighted paragraph above what is now the first highlighted paragraph and
041the board May transer any unexpended or contracted uh emergency transfers and we need to get language to in non-emergent in non-emergent situations comma the the board will uh the board May transfer an in non-emergent situations the board May transfer any unexpended or uncontracted portion uh expenditures shall not exceed the Appropriations in non-emergent emergent emergent situations so Matthew in this paragraph you're giving the board full the board can do it without asking the superintendent you're giving the board the full authority to do this no that was not that was not my intention uh my that's what it says the board thank you for pointing that out i' appreciate that uh the board has the authority to do it uh in non-emergent situations I think the superintendent needs to will propose to the board for board action
042to do it and it is the board's responsibility in non-emergent situations to to be responsible for it so there's one way to do it the superintendent with board approval May transfer now Ray is that the situation like we did with the nurses where we just make a list of things that needed to be transferred it'd be very similar yeah again I I don't know maybe I I try to keep things too simple I think I have to be responsible for the how it gets done that's why I keep asking these questions yeah see the above transfers are nonemergency yeah the first two paragraphs are not an emergency so that's why I I look I look at this paragraph As somewhat redundant it's a non-emergent situation the same as the first two the first two are
043not emergencies it's a it's the normal business process of a transfer um so maybe what we need to do is is place maybe this one sentence into the first uh [Music] paragraph um because to me I'm reading the first paragraph the Board of Education looks to central office administration to inform it a potential line item over expenditures in each school year budget um so it seems like that leads into an action of making a transfer and then it so the next sentence says all transfers of funds between accounts of the budget shall be in harmony with law and shall be recommended by the superintendent for board approval so maybe this part this sentence could go in there like this and I I don't think the first sentence is necessary I think um the second one
044that you just put there is good I see the first sentence is kind of setting the table of you know this this may happen and it's it's a matter of normal business it's not um and it sort of sets the chain of event or the um hierarchy I guess in a sense of um like the board we depend on central office administration to keep us surprised of it we know we're not in there when it's not our job we're overseeing and and managing helping assist um you know so a lot of time you know it just sort of sets the roles and responsibilities very clearly that's that's why I see the value of the first sentence in the second and third paragraph there the board will receive and then in non-emergent situations they're both saying
045somewhat similar in my eyes similar uh yeah I think the the one the what comes next the board will receive a written explanation of transfers that's the work that Ray Just sh shared with you with the nurses so I think that's fine to keep in but then you say it again not emergent do we really need that next sentence no right this one that I'm GNA highlight that one right do you really need it no I well I think no because that I mean that's the expenditures in each fiscal year s see the appropriation made that's law you are correct yeah like so I think we could do away with that one uh for in non-emergency put in a hyphen no um last last sentence of the first last paragraph emergency okay can I ask
046one more thing that second sentence I think Ian that you just put up there the superintendent with board approval May transfer um that sounds to me like let's say there was an emergency well let's say say that that uh Susan wanted to transfer something it doesn't have to come to us first can she she uh indicate that that transfer and then it comes to the board well I I think that's that's a point of debate I think um I know at least my understanding hearing the board discuss it in different ways different times that a number of different members have different ideas about that I thought that the the those those things were done and then it came to the board and we say yeah that was a good thing do that or we say
047hey baby similar to like the nurse situation though like you know the superintendent and the and the business manager came to us with a with a set of proposed solutions to the problem and then we reviewed it discussed it and voted on it because it was non emergency you know but you know it was we're moving money we're jumping function codes and that was a pretty big deal right Ian that was a yeah I mean this this could be just also day-to-day kinds of things that like you said Andrea you you saved on a teacher and you need those funds instead for supplies or something bear in mind if it's within the same fun if it is if you need supplies on an emergency basis then go ahead and do it it's but that's not
048what this says no right take out the line uh shall be in harmony with the law everything we do has to be in harmony with the law or we're violating the law so it's just redundant and shorten the shorten the docu shorten that paragraph Matthew why don't you take out that second sentence and and and that's it because like you said all transfers of fun has to be in harmony with the law so you really don't need that second sentence isn't that a cab recommended sentence it is yeah and I think that again it's just kind of setting the table you know explaining you know the terms definitions the context of the situation one of the things with the c um policies they've all been embedded by there's probably half a dozen lawyers with c
049and caps when when they go through when they create these canned policies so right and that's where sorry go ahead I'm no no please go ahead I'm sorry I was gonna say that's where the phrase in harmony with the law comes from yeah comes from you know I think that's they they want to do a tip of the hat to to that to show that you know we are considering it looked at all these policies for us the Third how does the third for a third sentence all transfers of funds between accounts of the budget or better yet budget accounts shall be recommended by the superintendent for board approval that's yeah that's good shall be to you both saying you want Harmony of the law out uh budget account of the budget shall be uh
050of the budget through and deleted Andrey you concur can you take it out temporarily yeah I I think it's redundant but if cave says I thought it was dumb when I wrote it but if the lawyers at c um say he you need to put that in the big thing I'm U concerned about is the superintendent does it and then it comes to us but in car harmony with the law or whatever if the lawyers say that I'm not a lawyer you know that's you know they must have had they must have had some kind of experience with this right yeah you know and that's what I'm thinking too is we and shall be recommended for board approval so if that's the case then why you even messing with the K policy I don't know
051what you mean very really that's the thing is why you work SMI in the K policy well the K policy I guess I'm using the phrasing coming out of there but the K policy had three different versions of the same policy depending on like how stringent the board wants to be but I was just looking at the policy in green that came in the packet and that's go you well right if you if you flip past that on the third page the third version of of of 3160 is actually the k sample it says in the upper left corner um and that actually if you look at it it has a short it has a version one version two version three all in that same sheet right and if you turn over so there's three
052different versions and and depending on how um how how stringent a board wants to be with the administration you can kind of choose a variation of anyone so all I'm all I was doing was trying to like kind of patch something together that kind of split the middle yeah and um but used I used the cave language as much as possible to to try to you know save us time with Ray or save us time with h Floyd see thanks Ian come on maybe B where are you on this I I said right that if you already like the C policy just leave it the C policy short and Sweden to the point I mean you keep words smiting and adding different things I mean is the K policy good or not good and you
053already said it's been beted by several lawyers and they think it's fine well they have different policy they have three different three different versions of this I hear you saying that but I'm just looking at the green one that we went over and that we came up with at the last meeting and didn't um Susan say Erica took all the stuff from the last meeting and and came up with this policy I think she even watched us on TV I I my sense is my sense is that there were some board members who wanted a more stringent uh oversight fiscal oversight and the issue that I heard mentioned you know the the question is oper ations are the superintendent's responsibility policy is the board's responsibility but in some situations the two of them overlap the
054one that came to mind in the discussion was in the question of reducing the hours T Tutors or or I think it was tutor hours where it was an operational decision but it also had policy impacts and the idea was we you know we could have avoided uh an uncomfortable evening for Susan and we could have avoided an uncomfortable evening for the board by having it come to the board for that that proposal to the board before it was operationalized and so I think this my my reading of this is this this is being proposed by some members not all as a way of giving the board some opportunity for input on situations and and of course that depends on the super on any superintendent uh Discerning that there's an issue that that involves both
055operations and policy I don't know if I was clear or not I'm that was very clear to me Matthew I think that was a great synopsis of the situation and um kind of capturing the the various feelings across the board all pun's intended um Bly in terms of of C language sometimes it is just so obscure that I think that if we pull out the the the the essential ones phrases in there and because sometimes it just goes on and it's what did it say and well where do we yeah where do we get the definition of emergency for instance um believe that I think that came from cave but yeah to Andrea's point though that that I also agree with I agree with that too like that there are times cave is so thoroughly
056vetted sometimes they they they tie themselves in in linguistic knots yes that makes it hard to unpack and so as a as a fellow English major you know I think it's a it it's it's incoming upon us to to try to do what we can to make it an easier read so it's more straight to the point in times where it does seem like we have a bit of a knot I agree with that I can live with shall be in harmony with the law but I see no function that it provides because that is a matter of law it is not a board policy so anything that's that's fuzzy wuzzy I could take it or leave it you know if you want to do a quick straw poll and just you know Andrea what
057do you think yeah I can take it or leave it well so in that case let's go with uh is it the old drunken white avoid needless words yeah let's what did Matthew say let's just more that was your line I adopted it give you credit for it all right I like first paragraph yeah I do yeah I do too I think we're there yeah I think so I just don't know 24 hours if I've got an emergency and I can't get Bev and there's a flooded Fitch or the water bottles are bursting on the weekend or how many things went wrong last year they were crazy things so sometimes what what if we what if we broaden that out to not just the board chair but the board and it's an email that you
058sent out to the whole board H within 24 hours I don't even know I mean there were things that happened that we didn't know about right away 36 hours give you bit give you Mor time I just think it like you said is as soon as possible yeah uh where can you highlight that language M uh Ian sure yeah yeah I think that 24 hours is unreasonable it's unrealistic so what is a reasonable number as soon as possible as soon as I know yeah well I guess um I mean what this is talking about is a transfer made to deal with emergency circumstance I mean that it's not the emergency itself Susan this is this is not for you this is for the policy we do not know who will be who will be the
059superintendent in six or eight years and I think it is good to have a guideline uh as soon as possible beauty is in the eye of the beholder if 24 hours is too short is too is not enough for you then let's specify 36 or 48 but let's specify something so your successor will have a very clear notion of what he or she is responsible for doing what about immediately well I mean if an emergency happens yeah it's going to go to the you know to facilities to the to the business manager and the admin pretty fast as far as like okay we need to deal with this and at the time that you know it seems like money has to be moved if we may change it to just board meaning like the superintendent
060could just send an email to an all the the full board email and just say hey by the way here's the update I got to move this to handle this call me with any questions by that's it like I I don't think it's unreasonable to say that's within 24 hours of handling of of of of you know handling an emergency I mean we send text message text message or a email to the board right as as rapidly as possible but we need to Define that I think yeah 24 I think is good you could put ASAP he says you probably should just keep it like you did with the RTM as soon as possible yeah I or immediately because you're gonna I mean as soon as possible maybe as soon as oh my gosh I
061I took a nap oh my God I got to call them but immediately says you better have your phone ready at the and if you couldn't reach Bev you could reach Adrian and if you couldn't reach Adrian you could reach Jay or Andrea just so that somebody on the board is aware of it and can pass it on from there right we're not hard to we're not hard to reach I'm I'm with Matthew on this one I I would only recommend that you know we leave 24 hours in there but I would take out chair and that way like it frees it up to contact any board member that would then be you know hopefully would feel the obligation to pass it around to the rest of the board I don't want that responsibility well
062I we do take on a responsibility with this position not well well I know that but that's not part of it I think the chair you know the chair or uh you know the the the uh Vice chair but I don't think that it should be up to just any board member uh Matthew where are you at that well the the the the function for the board member As I understood it was not that the board member or the chair was going to overrule or tell the superintendent what he or he would do simply as a point of contact so that that person could notify the others to free up the superintendent to take care of business correct just just a just a contact she shall contact a member of the board or if you
063want to say chair that's fine but whoever it is just needs to make one phone call Andrea can call any one of us and say I just don't have the time to make the other calls would you do it B what do you think how about chair or designate yeah I was thinking that chair or design sounds great because that's what we say about the superintendent or designate sounds terrific okay Matthew I think that should be is it a slash in all the language we should be consistent is what have we done wrong I don't know is it chair or design or is a chair Dash I don't know we should just be consistent with all of the language just take take a look at I think we've used or design superintendent okay for for
064for ra at least in dark things Ray because Ray reports to the superintendent and and anybody who the chair design designates would be reporting to the chair that's good I I just want to throw one word of question I understand you're trying to put certain controls in place um I don't know if you've been burned in the past or not that's not none of my business but I just want to put be careful how tight you squeeze things you don't want to you don't want to tie our hands as a business office or as a superintendent to the point where we can't do our job that's all and I'm going to leave it at that I just just a word of caution because I I've been in your shoes and I've been on this side
065of the fence so I'd ask you I'd ask you Ray if 24 and I'm was serious one I asked before if 24 hours is too constraining with your experience working with multiple districts would 36 hours give I would say 72 hours my my because if something's happening we're gonna we're the superintendent's going to notify the board anyway now I I just think being restrictive to say within 12 24 36 48 I would say within a reasonable time 72 hours 48 hours it depends on the emergency and when it happens we could all be on vacation right yeah I mean so I that's why and again I'm just we're gonna do our job and notify you I mean that's our job I think right sorry I just feel like we're kind of conflating two different things
066here you know because if everyone's on vacation like there's no one going to be transferring the money transfer is not going to go through anyway unless we have to get money to a vendor to get a repair right like a water line breaks or something like that but then the town is going to get involved anyway right right so um there are certain things that will have to take place and the board will have to be notified that certain things the town will have to be notified if a if a roof I I worked when I was in Plymouth as the board chair the roof Cav in on had a massive leak and we had just replaced one portion of a roof and we had to go in and get an emergency of almost quarter
067of a million bonded from the town to fix the rest of the so there are certain things that I understand that you want to put certain controls in place just I I just want to throw a little Caution out there just be careful you don't make it so tight where the superintendent or the business office can't do their job that's and I'm and I know you're it's up to the board to do whatever they feel is necessary uh but I again I just that's that's my point of view but you're the board so Bev that's actually my point of view too I was gonna say that don't make the policy I know some board members don't trust the administration and they want to tighten things up but I was thinking the same thing as Ray
068don't make it so tight that the superintendent and the business office people cannot do their jobs at the same time we don't want to make it so marshmallowy that oh yeah so what is what is a fair number oh within 24 hours in lie of that well what about 48 hours and that's fine with me well R has experience with this what are I just go I got I gotta say again I mean I don't understand um I mean the transfer itself is the money to pay for the services like you know Contracting Services or or or or like dealing with an you know mitigation in the moment of is is one thing but then when you kind of figure out the money it's already going to be like past the moment of the actual
069disaster the money's going to come after the fact right so right so I mean it's not going to be like you know you're in the middle of fighting a fire and you're supposed to send out an email this is not the emergency it's the money to cover the cost of repairing mitigating the emergency which always seems to happen after the fact okay so then I'm going to go back to why do you need within 24 hours we're going to notify you of the emergency but the transfer is not going to take place for a week maybe two weeks later of of the funds you know Ry this this reminds me of the conversation we had where you said if there were an emergency that you've instructed your people that if there's an emergency call me
070in the middle of the night and I'll give you authorization for a purchase order but don't do a purchase off order without my authorization because you wanted to control and I I think you should have it we have electronic controls in place on that too but that's another that's another issue I got why don't you go back to as soon as possible yeah I mean that's your call right I mean well at the at the end of the day I just you know Matthew I mean we are operating as a committee and there's three voting members and so I I say you know if we're if we're kind of log jammed on it let's have a vote of the committee members on what language we want to put in there and then we take that
071draft to the board and have the board deliberate on it and we can share with them the uh the debate that we've had here tonight and and the may I suggest we change it to 36 hours because if there's an emergency sometime within a day and a half we should be able to make a phone call to tell the board chair or his or her designate all right I say we're we're paying Ray for his knowledge and his wisdom and we should go with what he recommends okay I'm in favor from this aside hold on aside from this one issue on on on the timing is there anything else in the document that still needs to be massaged okay let me I'm going to highlight the timing thing and I think uh let's let's let's
072take a skim through the rest let's skim through the rest and then we'll come back to that at the end somebody can make a motion and we will do something all right so um as far as the uh the next paragraph this communication should promote a positive relationship blah blah blah I am 100% in agreement with Matthew on this one not needed not necessary needed yeah get that out of there no objections none it's out that just should be a for a unknown between all of us it's a given should be a given yeah so now there's this paragraph which actually is is a replication of the other one with the emergency thing uh yeah it's not a replication is it's an intensification in the sense that it's adding a threshold and this is what
073I meant by the three different versions of of this recommended policy is that one not have a threshold at all one had this threshold and the other had a blank um so I guess that's the question is is so what do what do you what did you do Susan when we had our uh reach security breach and we had no idea what it was going to cost how did you handle that well we had to take care of the emergency first and they were able to shut it down within six hours so we we were really dealing with the police we were dealing with the FBI and we were dealing with I mean I wasn't even thinking about the money I had to make sure we were secure so when you have a real emergency
074you have to make sure that you know everybody is safe and safe that's why any that's my feeling is that any number we State unless we do something silly like $300,000 we there's no way of knowing whether we're going to have an $80,000 emergency right or or or $3,000 emergency all I knew is insurance covered was a 100,000 um we'd have to spend before insurance would kick in and we almost did that that's normal to on something like that yeah there before take out the there before to designate what we we have to be yeah yep got it um I don't think I'd put a number in there just in case I I wouldn't either I don't even see the necessity of this one but again it's the board's policy well it's in emergency conditions
075I mean I think we've already covered it with the other one and and that's that's my take on it yeah I think it's replica I think it is a replication y I don't know is there anything in there that we haven't said no from my personal perspective uh we can do without it and just want to be sure that we've heard whatever it was the committee wanted to communicate to us so I ask Ian uh if we were to delete that would your fellow committee per people are there any questions they could ask of us why didn't you consider X Y or Z that we should be considering before we take that out uh to my recollection ction um no but the idea of a threshold was Flo as far as um you know as
076far as like regular transfers but we already got that covered with just regular transfers being a thing that comes through the board anyway so um I think I think we're in good shape if we just drop that paragraph I think we are too I think we got I think we got this yeah and you know nobody can say that we don't spend a lot of time on these thanks right and Mike and Jen are are are not shy in in speaking up so if they do feel like something was not communicated thoroughly by this process then I'm sure we'll we'll discuss that and they'll get the policy ahead of time to look at before we vote on it so all right we are almost ready to vote I think is there anything else we need
077to discuss other than that time piece or are we content with this otherwise we really get it down to two paragraphs yeah looks good to me yeah yeah but I can't vote would would your words are guiding us yeah to do if it does get approved would either of you like to make a motion and uh put in oh oh oh you know what I'm sorry I did need to um one thing I did have a note here about is line item and budget function like getting our terminology consistent with what we normally how we discuss our budget categories and amendments are not is not language that we normally use um in our board function object code function and object code yeah yep yeah okay between budget uh function and object slob code actually it's
078mostly between functions because the object functions the object codes we can move around yeah the object codes are are beneath the function so higher level functions yeah oh yeah and again so this actually kind of dovetails if if I could just do a quick sidebar there Matthew um this dovetails into the 3200 conversation um because initially the drafts that got passed out of the budget procedure committee um the 3200 was one was written for Budget function codes and the other was written for more like the object code level of stuff so we could we move on this one it's already almost 7:30 and I would do more than one so could we just make that functions uh Delete and object codes and if either Ian or or and Andrea would like to make a motion
079taking into account what it is you want to be in with this I think they're just called functions just functions let's just take out that 36 hours you want to make that as a motion I move delete go ahead well I was going to make a move that we uh leave it in well I don't care one of you make a motion and we'll we'll we'll take a vote I think all you need is consensus yeah we're going to take a vote Susan okay I move that we delete within 34 hour 36 hours from the language of the second paragraph do I hear a second uh I'm torn I I'll second for discussion sake I guess just to get on with it yeah okay okay what do we need to discuss motion has been made
080in no not not much I'm gonna say I'm G to vote against that I want to leave the 36 hours in there and and that may be up for debate with the rest of the board as far as the actual time frame but I'm I agree with Matthew's initial discussion on this where I think having some kind of time frame set as the expectation is good um you know now how long is reasonable is debatable but I I think to have something firm there is is is beneficial any further discussion all I say is what I said they hung up all I say is what I said before and I think that we should listen to to Ray in in particularly in light of his uh experience and his wisdom and his knowledge you're making
081me feel old Andrea oh honey baby I got you okay any additional conversation all those in favor of the motion to uh U recommend to the full board that we adopt p316 hold on a second I thought we were just talking about 36 hour language right now well she made a motion to adopt without 36 hours and I'm going to try to that that way okay I heard it differently all those in favor of passing P 3160 uh as on the screen but with the deletion of the words within 36 hours please indicate your support by voting I I all those who uh do not want to delete the within 36 hours please indicate by saying no no okay so it was one two and zero would anybody like to make a motion I'll make
082a motion to pass P 3160 as amended uh inclusive including the within 36 hours language is there a second I'll second it so it will be Thomas Schulman to motion to um as amended did I say that right all those supportive of voting this document with the language within 36 hours please indicate by saying I I I all those opposed oppos n okay we have two in favor one opposed zero abstain the P 3160 will be going to the full board for their consideration and I would encourage Andrea to to really feel free to to share your your feelings with the full board I know you would anyway but I want to invite it thank you okay uh can we go do you have the stomach at 717 I will defer to the Judgment of
083the participants whether we want to try to go on and do at least one more I'm okay with it Ian yeah I'm good with that too because I think 3200 might go go to 3200 Susan can you tolerate a little more I'm here I'm here for you thank you okay we are now looking at uh p3320 we're looking at the uh version that says business purchasing with the word procedures in red that's barred that's the latest version that we have could you put that up on the screen uh yep stand by um yeah so there just the two short greens paragraphs and then the rest red bars that one we'll put it up and I'll know are we talking 3320 or 332 wait oh no no sorry 32 z z that that numerically that' be
084the next one up that is okay I'm sorry I'm sorry I put it under the wrong paper clip my bag messing with our mind you know that that's okay well a mind is a terrible thing to mess with I lost time I don't have much left Matt come on yeah we go out and have a beer and this one is just the very same two paragraphs as the cap but then there was the other one too so uh it will be come up on here and and and uh I'm questioning the need for this entire policy so I don't know if we're who wants to start but to me this is not a policy but a statement of existing practice and so I asked myself the question what is this policy instructing Administration to do
085and I don't have an answer for that so um do other people want to comment or do I ask the Susan what do you see this this uh two sentence policy telling you to do same thing we're doing now not much except for information about the Food Service uh that actually goes directly to the Food Service program yeah it doesn't only thing we do is we deposit the checks for for them and reconcile their counts so I don't know that we need this policy uh that was that was my feeling I thought we could dispose of this pretty quickly Bev what do you think I don't I have an opinion on this one thank you for allowing me to speak though Matthew even though I'm not part of the committee well you are an ad
086hoc member of this committee yeah as much as r ray objects I I respect your wisdom too I this is this policy is basically what happens in most every town the money comes in and it goes directly to the town for the most part um and even if we do receive the check 99% of the time it's either deposited in a um activities fund or or a grant which is handled by the town it goes to fund one or fun three which is not a policy that's just a practice and to me the operative stuff of the verbs listen to this blah blah blah blah are usually made blah blah blah blah blah are addressed too there there's there's nothing that we're we're asking the administration to do right Matthew can I ask a question
087absolutely okay so on the this sheet you see it so on the top it says um income introduction but the red that was all strien strien stricken says transfer of funds between categories so how do we get from the red to income I don't understand that well I speak to that we don't need this policy because where did it I mean why do we have this policy I think the person to ask for that it be Ian because whatever it was came to us in a different form initially which is the blue form which was one two three four four or five paragraphs and uh that was what the committee said so we worked that down to two paragraphs but the the blue form says transfer of funds between budget categories that's the one we
088just did all right so if I if I could if I could just speak on it I could explain it go for it okay so if it could be explained right so so basically the the um what you see in the red ink is um the old 3200 that the Board of Education had has on the books in reviewing this as a budget procedure committee we he read that transfer of funds between categories as to mean basically like equal to um to object codes and so I saw 30 3160 and 3200 has sort of two parallel um policies one meant to deal with function functions function codes and the other meant to deal with object codes so yes they are very similar and um and that's why the blue Inc 3200 reads very much like
089the blue Inc 3160 um and I'm not sure how it happened but uh I think at one point I did have a version of this that said 3200 transfer funds between object codes but that got lost I know that was misnamed because C absolutely has it as it's categories no right well well so here here's the thing is I think I think at some point in the past you know how many every years since the yeah 1990 was when the the current board policy was written the current 3200 was written in 1990 so sometime in the past you know 25 35 years cave re re reclassified their recommended policies so when you know the C budget uh when the recommended policies were pulled from the from the C manual um they pulled up this one
090had to do with income because that's the new classification code whereas I think back in 1990 they had one that was they called it transfer of funds between categories and the way I I read it and my other committee members read it it seemed to be talking about um object codes because it said objects of expenditure um so that's what we attempted to do with the draft the blue ink draft of 3200 was to draft an object code level policy that was essentially a parallel to the one that to the 3160 that exists on function code level does that make sense with the the logic of the process makes sense to me but here's where I'm lost if if we're if if you if it's the feeling of the Comm of your subcommittee that we
091need to do something in parallel to for uh object codes I do not feel up to wrestling with that for the next two or three hours tonight I'll betired know if that's I mean do we is the is that the law Ray No Object codes function code is the transfer requirement yeah so object codes aren't required object code you'd shut your you'd shut your business office down so I have a proposal um to to kind of maybe and what I would like to do is is um I don't know I mean would you like toet your two committee people and see if you guys can can thrash out what you want us to look at well I just don't know that it's the law though I don't know that I think I think it's something
092saying it's gonna shut down the business office I can't have that I have half a business office and and if that's the case I I'll absolutely support you Susan I just want to be sure that we're understanding what this committee that works so hard is actually I I would I would I would um be glad to take the opportunity that Matthew is offering um especially since but it would take the uh the approval of the chair since the reconstituted budget procedure committee um had a very specific charge as far as working with the budget book format layout um with with her permission I I'd be fine to have this go back to them with my intended goal is just to kind of check in with them on this one policy the 3200 um the old
093one which was seemed intended to go for object codes see if that's the thing that they were intending to do when we did it the first time which my memory was that yeah we were looking at that share with them raise concerns Susan's concerns and see what they want to do with it chances are we could just like not Advance it back out of committee um that would be a viable outcome because I think the major concerns have been addressed with a 3160 I do too just for the sake of of of good procedure I think it would be prudent to just send it you know we're going to be meeting sometime in the near future anyway to start the budget book format discussion we could easily carve out 10 or 15 minutes of our
094meeting to to revisit situation and handle it on the committee level and that may be the last to hear of it or there may be some communication um but either way I don't want to take up any more time on the policy committee with this given the overall context of the situation Bev what do you think I think this went to policy and you all should deal with it and then we once you deal with it and it comes to the full board those individuals will have a chance to say whatever they want to say I'm comfortable with that what about you and Andrea and Ian would you comfortable with Bev's advice I I could I'm sorry Ian go ahead sorry yeah I was just gonna say if I understand correctly Bev you're saying just
095um put this 3200 as is to the full board for us all to discuss and then we can have that discussion about the object code stuff as a full board and maybe put it down to rest there no I'm saying uh this 3200s in policy right now so you all in policy figure it out if you want to send it the way it is to the full board then like we always do the full board will review it and make suggestions and I'd like to be able to do a little research like if the 3200 in cave is no longer or never should have been a transfer of funds between budget categories and it's always meant to be this income or or business non-instructional operations and we we don't seem to think that that really
096um is necessary but maybe we need to do a little more research on that and then is there a policy in cave that talks about any legal ramifications about moving money within object codes okay um I just feel like if that would help us if we we had a little more information so Matthew how about this is a solution we could we could um postpone the 3200 to the next policy committee meeting and give me like about three or four weeks to do some res research and Susan and whoever you you know want to have do research on Erica helps us out a lot too she can help and I could coordinate with Erica as well to kind of make sure we're all looking at theour make a motion to uh report this to the
097next meeting for further action all right I I'll move that we postpone 3200 discussion to the next uh regular policy committee meeting do I hear a second to that second all those any conversation before we vote on this all those in favor of postponing discussion in 32p 3200 till the April meeting vote I please you we pass that 30 to0 uh to April meeting and if if you in your research either from Administration or uh Ian with your informal conversations with your other colleagues on our committee want to suggest some alternative language that we could look at next meeting that would be fine too um it's now 7:30 um we actually got one done guys this is good we should be done with these business ones by August or September that'll be good we can
098we will get them done even sooner than that I have actually I I got I got I got possibly good news because I'm looking at the 3310 and um the 3310 is the purchasing guidelines the 3320 again I think something got got lost in Translation at some point um or you know that was the time anyway 3320 was supposed to be drafted as a regulation to support the 331 I was wondering about that it did look like procedural yeah um but what came through was radically reduced as to what was drafted um so okay I see wait I see what's going on here okay um yeah so this is where Erica did a lot of work for us and it's very much appreciated um so shall I project the 3310 that is Erica's edit it
099looks like based on our conversations I I'm going to interrupt you it's 7:34 I'm going to ask once again the will of the people who are in attendance good night Andrea and I are still in our teens we're good for an all nighter but the rest of you we've gotta be respectful I'm I'm good to go um well one I was going to say that 3320 we could probably just you know shift into regulation and and like let so we might be able to just kind of dispense with that but I it's focused fully on trying to close out 3310 I thought we voted to say good night Gracie oh sorry if that's if that's I'm am at if you're had enough Andrea we'll hold it till next meeting unless you guys are glutton for
100punishment and want a special meeting before sometime before the April meeting you whatever you want is what I'm willing to do April April Ian you have any problem with that no I'm fine with that Wonder well would you find Gracie for us then first of all I want to thank everybody particularly Rey I am disappointed Ry you didn't bring any snacks for us no it's me who brings you the snacks just said Susan does so you all have a wonderful evening thank you so much Bev for having come did we actually do the vote no we haven't done a vote yet we haven't had a motion yet a motion motion to adjourn is that you're waiting for that's waiting for it oh motion to adjourn do I have a second second Thomas this is a
101non-debatable motion all those in favor say I I I it's unanimous what a what a team thank you so much everybody have a good night everyone thank you good night thank you Ray you're welcome