Plainville Town Council Budget Meeting - 03/17/26

001All right. Good evening, everyone. Um, if everyone's ready, it is 6:30. I'd like to call our uh budget work session meeting to order. Uh tonight uh we do have several departments we're going to be discussing tonight that we didn't uh take care of or didn't approve last week. Um what I'd like to do is probably tonight uh start any discussions. We have the superintendent and the chair of the board are here tonight. Um are there any uh questions or comments for either one of them? I I did we did forward or they forwarded to me and I forwarded to you guys a a spreadsheet regarding class sizes that was talked about last week. But does anyone have any questions for the superintendent or the chair of the board? >> No, >> I was wondering about

002that list because um I couldn't find it, but I was looking under Brian's name and um someone else's. Who was the other person? >> Sue. Sue's name. So, I didn't know that it was from you, Christopher. I'm gonna go look for it now. Thank you. It's >> actually from me. >> Um, yeah. Let me uh It's probably sent what? 10:00 this morning? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And if you know and if you need time, I mean we do have, you know, I don't want anyone to throw anything at me, but we do have a work session scheduled for tomorrow night as well if you need time to digest what's there. >> Yeah, I would definitely need time to look at it. Thank you. >> Um, >> wait a minute. >> Yes. >> Never mind. >>

003Okay. >> Anything new from last week? >> Sorry, Ben. Well, anything, >> excuse me. My my issue is is you're >> it's not our role to tell the board of ed where to cut their where to cut. >> I'm not sure why their class sizes is going to ma would matter. Are you telling them they should cut teachers? >> Yes. Here's my here's my deal. Because I've I've heard that the classroom sizes are extremely small. There's several classes that have like just 10 kids. Some have 12. And and when I spoke about it last week, it they it was minimized a little bit by well some kids might have been out sick with this and that and and to me it's it's not a small issue where kids are out occasionally issue. It's a wider

004spread issue where the classroom sizes could be combined in spots and we could we could reduce some staff. And I think >> we could or they could >> the we as a town I'm using this we as a town. >> We as a town council is not our role to tell the board of education where to spend their money. I'm if I feel and I don't think I'm alone if that we are the the staffing at the school is is overstaffed or bloated and it's $21,000 per student and growing. Um, I think it would not it would be um not responsible of me to at least discuss have a discussion about it. So, I'm I'm just shocked that you're upset that I need to discuss something that a lot of people are talking about >>

005that it was sent to but but the information was also sent to us at 9:30 this morning >> that I didn't know it was I wouldn't I never get anything from Christopher in my email. I would never look under his name unless I was specifically told that Chris sent this to you. I asked Brian to send it to me. I was looking under Brian's name and I was looking under the uh the person that took over for Joan Kalistro um her name to see if I received an email and I didn't have it. I get hundreds of emails a day. So I actually have to put the email address in there and search it by the email address in order to find things. So >> my issue is it's not our role to tell the

006board of education where to spend their money. It is our role >> to oversee their budget and see to see if we could help do due diligence on budget that is $2.6 million. That's our job, >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes. I I don't I think both of my fellow councilmen's comments um it is a a a topic that should be discussed and debated. Um I want to point out um a point just a point um that two meetings ago Councilman Gtl get cannot say your name tonight. Ben uh said that it was he was asking if the two uh folks on the board of education vote who voted no. um had made or had said why and the reason for that was um they were looking for the lost income um to be compensated in

007some way. So that way this board of education wasn't a continuous runaway train. I thank both council people for the heated conversation and I agree it is one that we should be had uh be having. So, it sounds like um you're looking to understand perhaps if you were to ask for an aggregate amount to be brought back to the board, you would need to look at those class sizes to determine that. Do do we understand and I don't want to misunderstand >> your comment. I don't want to misunderstand anyone's comment ever because this is important and I think we should have a conversation because a lot of the conversation uh with us happens outside of here uh in town in the streets and people who ask us to be their voice. So that's what we're

008all doing. So thank you. >> And the reason I asked the question the other night about the two dissenting board members was because that is their role to set the board of education budget. If they are voting no, what was did they offer any ideas on where to make the cuts? That would have been the time to bring up class size. It is not the town council's >> job. It is not the town council's job to tell them tell the board of education where to make their cuts. We can tell them we're cutting your budget a million dollars. you figure it out. But that's the extent of it. >> Yeah, Mr. Chair. >> Yes. >> Now, you know, I would agree and I know we've had other things that came up and I, you know,

009been pretty consistent in saying that the board of education is in charge of the operation of the schools. Also said the library board uh because it is a third elected board in Planeville is also charged with the operation of the library. very much the same relationship uh that the board of ed is to the schools. Uh and it's true we can we can set a a a budget number for the board of ed. Um but we really shouldn't get into any detailed um uh discussion or uh you know an in-depth debate about um staffing about curriculum uh about hiring at the board of ed um and uh and I think we have to keep that in mind. You know, I know several years ago we also had a council member that, you know, thought we

010could uh the council could vote to close a school building, which uh I objected to right away and indeed uh legally that is that is not uh possible because that is some another decision for the board of ed to make. Um I did see the uh attachment uh that our chair sent us and actually I did look at it specifically looking at the projected numbers and uh I didn't have any major questions uh looking at it uh keeping in mind the uh the guidelines for class size um and I said I had no questions anyhow and uh and I may have just asked them you know personally but um I didn't see any major issues and I think we have to look at data not you know what we here. Um because it's it's easy

011to hear stuff that um may not have any basis in in fact. >> Thank you. Um if there's no basis, then it's not a problem for me to look at it and and see whether the people were blowing smoke up my skirt, right? So, how would I know that unless I could see it for myself? >> And I disagree that it's not our job to look at the details. It is our job if they present a two mil 2.4 2.6 6 million increase and they say but this is the best we can do and it's all salaries and blah blah mostly salary blah blah blah how would we know that unless we look at the details how how do we know that Rosemary we can't just take everything at base value or face value and

012and say okay all right here's your money that's our job is to look at everything and look at the details and see how we can do better >> Mr. Mr. Chair. >> Yes. >> Um, Councilwoman Morrene makes a good point in that we do need to be looking at data and sometimes it's difficult. I have found this uh often and now both of the roles that I've served that sometimes it's difficult to drill down into that data, right? So, we get presented the data, you know, a couple times a year or the data that um, you know, we're looking at, but our job also as a body more so than on the board of education because it was a board, right? And that was drilled into me repeatedly and it was also dedilled into me

013repeatedly uh that it also as a board of education member, it was not my job to make decisions on uh where to cut money. I thought that was interesting since I was a board of education member, but that was what was told of me. It was to go back to the person that we trusted as our lead to say, "Hey, this is the amount same you're saying here that we're uncomfortable with and hand it back to our first in charge." So, it sounds like we're all saying something similar, except the disconnect is the people who talk to us and give us the feedback outside of here is data. To me, it is. And forgive me if I'm wrong and I'll say this right right out to the world. You all are also my data in

014addition to these endless meetings of data. So I I I just need to make that very strongly clear. And I would like for us to have um conversations that get somewhere that are not always party line but actually have these kids who these people who are coming here uh asking for this money for because now this is my fifth year being elected and this budget, the board of education budget isn't getting better. I've now been through teacher contract negotiations and I can't speak to the specifics because it was all done in executive session. Believe me, I'd love to, but the highlevel overview is there's not much we can do. So, the little areas where we do have control over the actual money, the peanuts, the little bit that we shouldn't be micromanaging as it was

015drilled into me for four years as well. Unfortunately, we have to talk about it. Thank you. >> All right. Um, you know, I I think I think everybody's in a way right with this discussion. I mean, we do need to look at details. We obviously can't tell the board how to spend their money, but we certainly can ask questions and uh try to understand the process better. Um, I don't mean to kind of cut this discussion short, but you know, and I'm not, you know, Councilwoman Tomkins, you know, if you want another day to look at data before making any decisions, you know, we can do that, you know, but I do want you to feel comfortable that you've gotten the information you've you've asked for and that you've been you've had an ample opportunity

016to look at it. >> Thank you. Um, you know, in the future, you know, you know, please let me know how I can communicate better with you. Um, you know, I don't want you feeling like just because I don't send you a lot of emails that you don't look for them from me. But, you know, certainly we can come up with probably a better way for the both of us to uh make sure that we're seeing the communications that we're sending back and forth. Um, so we can take that away tonight. Um, you know, as far as the board budget, uh, I don't know if there's any new information that that you needed to share tonight. Um, if there's anything you think we've missed. >> So, I don't think there's new information. I I think

017from a process standpoint, maybe there would be some it'd be helpful. Um, you know, we did have uh some some small class sizes at the very low grades, kindergarten. Um, and we did move a position um and moved it up to the high school where we were having some issues with other class size issues and abilities to offer classes. So, so there is there are some small classes this year. That is accurate. Um and we did make the board made the decision to move that position um to a different place in the district to address some of that. I think the the second piece is from a process standpoint um the board looked at all of the numbers and and asked questions for probably two hours about enrollment and how this works and looked at

018that. Um and so and so there's there's a lot of conversation there and if you were to try to do that it would be many many hours added on to the many many hours you're already spending and and I'm understand this is a grueling process especially when things that we can't control like insurance you know kind of push us over to uh amounts we want to be at but but they did do that um and they did look at that part of that analysis is is what we don't know. So, our most volatile of not knowing for sure where kids are coming in are your kindergarten and your first grade. Why is that? Because many families move at that point. >> Um because they're, okay, we have to get serious about where our kids are

019going to schools. We're going to try to stay there. Um but there's also the issue of you can do private um prek right into K and and have daycare all arranged and all that stuff. And so there are a fair amount of families who do that program as well. And so first grade and kindergarten are both a little bit um you know uh they're they're somewhat of a you know they're kind of risky, right? We are not totally sure where they're going to end up. And so we will will literally take that enrollment and right through June be looking at it from the perspective of how did we do. So two years ago um we ended up with a place where we would have been over I believe over 20 if we kept kindergarten the

020way it was. So we had to shift a position in there because we it kind of uh increased more than we thought it would. Um last year, you know, yes, there were some small positions and we uh small class sizes for coming into this year. Um and you know, we did find ourselves in a position where there are some small classes. Um so from I guess from a process standpoint, there's just a lot of moving parts there and and we really don't know. In fact, we had I think in one school, I think last year, seven students move in the in August and and so in one grade. So, you can imagine when you're dealing with two classes, that's a lot of kids, right? And and so we absorb that. Um the enrollment in general

021is down. We believe it will be down about 20 students from year to year. The number of staff is staying the same. um and that that number of kids is throughout the district. So, it's down about 40, but we believe we'll collect about at least 20 in our um as we bring in students through the choice program. So, when I say 20, 20 is the net. Um so, just to kind of give you perspective, that doesn't make your job easier. Um and I I appreciate where you are. Um we'll do whatever we can to to support the process. Um and you know, I don't want to speak for Mr. right um as the board chair but you know they do walk us through many hours of answering questions around enrollment around that. So just I

022hear you. I I I you know I I understand what you're saying. Um you know we'll do whatever we can with to support the kids. So >> just to clarify that I can attest to the fact personally that we have really gone over in detail uh especially in a board meeting and also in our workshop sessions uh with uh David Leandowski who went over with us the actual levels and and as pointing out as what the superintendent has just said that the there are variables in the prek and in the K areas of our schools and these are By the nature of those classes, those classes that do need to have a a reduction in sizes, they generally can be 11 or 12 is is really what can be manageable. And in many cases, we

023have students also in those classes with special needs. And they will also require upon occasion uh the the service of a a parah to actually work with those students. And then as the class sizes and we are aware of this and we look at this and we are getting as situations change uh our superintendent and the assistant superintendent are forwarding us to us the information of of these changes and we are being made aware of that and I I am you know I am happy that you are questioning those figures I think because this is a critical point but I think that you will find that um that our class sizes are are within very acceptable limits. Yes, on certain days you will go into especially in a prek and a first grade class and

024a K class, you will see absences especially at this time of year. But we also have classes in the high school where we have English classes that are ranging in size of over 20. And then you have an English teacher in the high school teaching five courses, five classes, that's a hundred students. that's a 100 uh term papers that you're going to have to grade and homework pages every night. So that that does balance out by the level of the services that are required to keep our students getting the education that they need to really succeed as lifelong learners as which is part of our mission statement. >> All right. Um thank you. Any uh comments or questions? >> Mr. Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to do this to you. I do have one more question

025and I I do have to ask it uh because it was asked at last night's meeting. Um so it's just again in our due diligence and it's more of a question maybe where information can be presented uh to the public over the course of between this budget and the next. Um and it wasn't the first time I heard it and I think I think transparency is always the best policy. If we get ahead of these things and address them, they don't marinate and become other things. So the question was um and is something that you said uh made me think of it um regarding the class size uh Mr. White um because for those of us who went to school through the school system I would bet our graduating high school classes at exactly within

02610 students probably the same exact class size. So we've been a pretty stable district um in the last 35 years. Um, however, needs change, times change, resources change, technology changes. So, with factoring all of that in, one of the questions that we get often, um, or I get often and we got last night was regarding administrators, are we topheavy on administrators? So in a time I guess the question would be so in a time where the high school was able to operate with one principal and one um vice principal assistant principal. Now, if there's a need for two, maybe we can explain to the public why there is that need. Or perhaps, and I dare say this, perhaps it not always be met with negativity and rage for the public and for us, that's why

027we were elected to ask if maybe sometimes we might have to spend less. Thank you. So, I'm just putting that out there so we can get ahead of it for next year. I don't know if you want to address it now. Um, it was asked at last night's meeting. That's why I bring it up. Thank you. >> No, I think to your point, if that's a conversation, certainly we'd have that with the board and conversation about what that looks like. Um, are if the quick answer is are we uh, you know, if you compare us to other districts, you know, are we administratively heavy? My answer is no. So it's not um we are we are a little light in terms of building administration. So again that's quick and that's not with a panel of

028research sitting in front of me. That's a from what I understand what's happening in the world um in this state. Um that would be my quick response without data to support it. So >> thank you. Just quickly to answer that, in the 14 years I have been on the board of education, we've had two assistant principles at Planeville High School. Uh and we've also had two assistant principles at the middle school where these are the two schools where where we combine our students and um also uh in the middle school that is uh where there is I think the greatest need for a different type of administration than you would find in the high school. Uh but uh that that is just my own personal observation and and with discussions again uh during several times

029uh in both regular sessions and work sessions and executive sessions in discussions with the board of education itself. >> Mr. Chair, >> yes. >> And I can tell you in from 1985 to 1990 there was three administrators at the high schools. There was a principal and two assistants. It's been like that for >> almost 35 years that I know of. >> And just I Oh, you also I'm sorry. I don't mean to cut you off. >> Um Yeah. No. >> Yeah. So, you know, when you look at these the class size, do you have to go through a process where you you redistrict at all or how you know because how how do you do this? You know, because you see like Tafflon potentially could have 60 kindergarteners where Wheeler only has 30. Do you

030move the teacher? Is it easier to move the teacher in that case than to try and move the students around to make it all fit? >> So what you see is a nice neat package. Um if you start peeling away the onion on that, >> there's a lot of moving parts. So one is that it's our choice to uh address choice students, right? So, so that's something we can fill in places where there's >> opportunities, right? So, there's one >> and those they you can place >> we can place them >> where you kind of have them. >> It is easier to move a teacher um and and we do do that. So, even in in these cases where you see the same there's teachers moving throughout that system. >> Okay. Um the third piece

031is that we do have a um August is full of requests of uh students asking to not be in the district that they bus are bus to. >> Yep. >> Um so there's lots of opportunity to move them there as well. Okay. >> So either they'll move out or we'll say no, we're actually the class sizes don't work for that. We need you to stay in the school you're in. So there's a lot of moving parts right through August to try to even out those numbers as best we can. >> Okay. >> So I hope that >> No, thank you. I was just curious, >> but literally it looks neat, but it's >> Yeah. No, the spreadsheets beautiful. I love it. Yeah, I'm sure getting to that point takes a lot, you know, I was

032just curious some of that backstory of how you manage the number of students at each particular school and is it easier to move the teacher, so to speak, as opposed to moving the students around. It's usually much more easy to move the teacher. So, >> and I imagine parents really don't want to see their kids get getting moved. >> It generally doesn't well if and if we move them >> try to avoid it >> if they're not going to the school they're um to not up our transportation costs. If they're not going to the school they're intended to, um they can't have the bus either. So, >> okay. >> So, that's that's there's a cost factor there as well. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. Anybody else? Any other comments or questions? >> Um,

033so what's the preference? And I, again, I, you know, is this something we want to take a vote tonight? I I don't, again, Councilwoman Tomkins, I don't want to put you, you know, necessarily make it your decision solely, but, you know, you want to move forward tonight. Do you want a night? >> I would like to vote on the board of education tomorrow. >> All right. Um, before we let them go, is there any questions of the superintendent or chair of the board? >> All right. >> Mr. Mr. Chairman, if I if I may, and not to keep you here any longer, gentlemen, um, but I think we might want to have a conversation real quick uh for some news on on insurance. >> Yes. Thank you. >> U, >> and just so they're prepared

034for tomorrow. >> A little good news. Yeah, there was some good news today. Um, came out uh the state uh partnership uh health insurance information came out late last night that I was able to get to and address this morning. Uh data tend to state meeting this morning and our um our percentage we were targeting 11%. It's coming in just a little bit lower than that. So we're able between the two budgets, the town and the board of ed um I'm able to to recommend to you to reduce in total $74,678. And I can break that out between town and board of ed budgets. Um this wouldn't have any uh impact, you know, on the town budget and be um department 820 fringe benefits which you've already um approved, but we can reopen it and

035reduce it by the 20,000 which always helps. And on the board of ed budget, it wouldn't reduce or change anything operationally. Again, it's a line item that the superintendent has been is over, you know, higher than it should be because of the premium increases, but we can reduce it a little bit. Um, so when you get to that when you go to approve the board of ed budget, we'll throw that number in there, reduce uh, you know, the bottom line and they can reduce whatever they want, but on the on the board side, but uh, there can be a reduction without any impact to operations. >> All right. And that would be would that be the balance of the 74 after the >> well between the two? Yeah. I mean if we're going to cut

036I did recalculate both sides of the of the equation for health insurance and it would be 74,678 in total. >> Okay. >> Between the two budgets >> and on the town side we would look to reopen it and reduce it by >> reopen. Yeah. I would recommend reopening 820 department 820 and then uh making the adjustment onward and uh approving the new bottom line total for that department. >> All right. Thank you. Thank you. >> And thank you for >> it. It was nice to see you last night. I'm like, >> but there was a fear that it could be higher and that that >> No, I'm glad that Yeah, >> that is a that is a vote of assurance. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Trend is still high. You know, utilization is up, pharmacy is

037up, um you know, uh you see in almost every street corner in urgent care now. So, that's why it's up. But, uh, we were able to, uh, you know, the state was able to do a little bit. Um, our Harford County was down about half a percent. They have a county adjustment that also feeds into the equation. And Harford County was down, which is what led us to be a little bit lower >> than the 11 on average percent increase across the state. >> All right. Thank you. So, we'll be back here tomorrow night >> to act on your budget. >> Thank you. >> Um, I don't know. Does it does any fire chief, police chief, does anyone have to be somewhere at a certain time? Does either want you want to like shoot for

038who goes first? >> Can't say that. He's got a gun. >> Oh, that's true. Yeah. Thank you for >> I appreciate >> So, yes. So, the police department at, you know, we talked last week. We had several takeaways from that. Um, I'm going to try to summarize. If I forget anything, please let me know. We did have uh some items that were asked for in capital that weren't funded, but we felt needed to be in operational. Um, we talked a little bit about a vehicle. We talked about an additional patrol officer. And there was one more. What am I forgetting? >> Armor. Was it body armor? Yeah. Oh, I think it was a combination of, you know, a recommendation with the private duty of creating a fund where that fund would help pay for the

039cost of a vehicle or vehicles. I guess it depends how good of a year it was for private duty, but um and also SRO's, a discussion about uh how we currently fund SRO's and what can we do going forward and and engaging with the board of education to talk about that. Um, >> is there anything new from last week that you want to share, chief, before if we >> No, I think everything is uh you summed it up. >> Okay. I think that's where we're at. >> Okay. >> Those discussions. >> All right. Um, does anyone have any questions for the chief before we take any comments? I >> No, I'm good. >> All right. any thoughts on what we want to do tonight or um you know I obviously I think the the operational

040costs I think makes sense to move that into you know I know that's a $50,000 cost to add it and that's kind of outside of you know any any you know something we just have kind of have to do or be consistent with other departments >> we kind of missed it so it's not a reduction in CIP because we didn't the town manager didn't didn't fund it in CIP so it's actually an overall increase of 50 But it is they are needed items. They are really operational items, not CIP type items. So it's it's software and and you know that we have in every other budget, departmental budget. So it does make sense and you know we'll do what we got to do with it. >> Okay. So the operating budget would go up to

0416,67,000. >> That is correct. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Just for that one change if that's >> for that department, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. Right. >> Okay. Okay. Um they were for things that are on yearly contract, correct? >> Yep. >> Those three items. >> Yep. >> Yeah. And I just I just wanted to to verify where each one of those items that perhaps is not there where that's going to be funded from. So I do know in CIP right now >> we had AEDs and those are the automated external defibrills and those are on a replacement because the batteries only last five, six, seven years. We try to get two per year. >> We we carry them in the patrol car so that we can save people's lives when they have, you

042know, heart failure. And so I wanted to make sure that was incip. Okay. >> And also we have, I think, a year or two years left on the uh stationary license plate readers, >> right? Those are the two items there. >> Uh and then I >> what was left in the CIP? I know the watch guard cameras we were flush with. We were going to sort of zero that nothing for next year. Uh so that left the body cameras. >> Mhm. >> Which is a yearly cost. >> Yeah. >> The forensic computer software uh that the detectives use >> and uh what else was there? >> The dispatch. >> Police dispatch. >> Dispatch a record system. That's also a yearly cost which always goes up. >> Those three items are the 50,000 that'll add back.

043Okay. And we have residual monies for those three individual line items in CIP to use 427 to cover the full cost of all three of those. >> Okay. And the body armor is going to be you said a low sip grant or what was however >> body armor wasn't uh funded at all anywhere. >> Okay. The Well, we have to fund the body armor somehow because that's uh a replacement cost usually each year. >> It's zero. >> It's around 9,000. >> 9,000. Yeah. We have to We have to fund that. >> The uh >> body armor 12. Line 12. >> Line 12. >> 9,000. >> Yeah, we're looking at line 12 on your uh Yep. >> the big >> I have a question. Yes. >> That's if it's 9, you have 45 officers or no

044in the last five years. So, you need nine sets every year basically to stay on rotation. >> That's sort of how it works. Some years are less than others depending on when a person's body armor expires, but every every year we try to purchase between nine or 10. Uh the number hasn't changed. I know it went up this year. It's going to be at least $1,000 per officer, so it may go up. >> Uh so I think this year there was seven or eight officers that need to have it replaced. So the the the timing changes uh when we get the grant payment for it also changes and it changes with the so that money is is sort of always shifting. Sometimes it looks as if there's probably double the amount in there that that

045we need and then it'll go down. So uh >> so so that is covered by a grant. So we >> uh partially and I'm >> very yeah very little of it though not that much. >> My question is why is it why if it's a yearly cost why is it in CIP? I I don't understand. It's to if it's something that we have to do every year, >> it it there should be a separate uniform line item budget, but that doesn't exist. So, it's it just has always been in CIP as far as as long as I've been here. So, >> because they last more than a year essentially, like we talked about before, you know, things that they have an annual renewal, i.e. software, it's a year. General fund is a year. CIP is

046more than a year and $5,000. Um the body armor while it may be replaced every year as an ongoing thing, it's not an annual thing for an individual piece of it. >> Oh, okay. I see what you're saying. >> Okay. >> So, that's why it's always kind of been sitting in CI um in CIP. And again, it's equipment that should last longer than a year, per se, >> right? >> Um we do, you know, any any grant monies we do get back, we offset, we throw it in in the fund. So, there is a net expenditure minus revenue equals net. Um, but that's kind of why it's always been sitting in CIP and currently we have about 10 grand sitting in there. So, it really is only one year's worth of of armor that is

047sitting in the line item. >> So, so Mr. Chair, just to summarize, and we have really have four items, the the body armor, the uh dispatch and recording system, the body cameras, and the forensic software >> that are really like not discretionary items. These are things that for which we had a yearly contract or a yearly replacement plan. So, uh, I'm a little confused why they did not appear in either the CIP or or the operating budget, um, you know, as it was presented to us, but I could certainly see why they are continuing costs. >> Okay. Um, any other comments, questions regarding at least uh what we're talking about? So, can we summarize what are are we looking to add more than what we initially with the body armor? Is that something was that

048included in moving over in the the fifth? I think at this point you're going to move >> I think at this point you're going to move three items that you identified already and then you're going to have to we're going to have to increase capital by 9 uh CIP by 9,000 because that's a >> that's the body which is not eligible to move to operating the reasons Rob stated. So, we'll have to look at um increasing or or reducing something else to swap out for uh for the armor. Okay. >> Body armor, >> right? We can keep the bottom line the same. All things being able with the 9,000, we can just, you know, we'll nickel and dime another another line item or two. while we would add the individual uh project or or line

049item if you will, we'll just nickel and dime the others to keep the bottom line total for CIP. >> Okay. >> Is everyone comfortable with that? >> Mr. Chair, can I ask a follow-up question um to Miss Morenti's um question? Do we know the answer to that question that you just asked? >> Which one? >> You um >> about it? Why it wasn't in the original budget? No, I I didn't think so. I wanted to make sure you got your answer because I you know I had the same question. I just want to make sure if you and I both had the same question then the public probably has >> Well, I think some of it is looking at the line item balances that are remaining in those line items at the time we were

050going through the budget and trying to prioritize other things saying, "Okay, we have some money sitting in here. Could it just simply be timing of when the payments are made when the items are purchased? or is it simply not being used this year and can be used next year instead and push off a purchase for next year to the following year. So it was determined between us that you know well let's just >> punt for a year see what happens but if it's something that's obviously needed in an annual basis then we need to do it. >> Sorry thank thank you I was just thinking so just to recap and summarize the three items I have highlighted here police dispatch and record system police body cameras and forensic software those are annual items that can

051be moved over into the CIP. >> No from have it backwards. Oh yeah, operating >> that's going to be moved from CIP to operating because it is annual. >> Correct. >> Understand? >> And it it is annual and it is under well >> it's annual. It's a it's a it's an annual and it ends. So it it's got to be renewed every year in the operating budget versus something that is a you know u longer fiveyear term as Robin indicated and over $5,000 in terms of criteria that we use for capital. This would fall under that and be more appropriate in the operational budget. But the armor obviously as Ben just took us through that is not an officer replacing it every single year, >> right? Portions of the force will go through every year

052and that's what he's ro the chief is rotating through but that's going to have to stay in capital. >> Understand? >> And we'll find it. I'll identify I think at this point I'll just throw out well Rob can also suggest but I I think what we'll probably look at is just maybe reducing the uh maybe the sidewalk fund that is up uh at repair and replacement at 174,000 just shaving that by 9,000 to to cover the >> right right >> the armor for 9,000 one suggestion anyway. >> Okay. Uh, anyone else any comments, questions? I mean, at least regarding the capital, why don't we stay with this and flush this out as much as we need to uh before we talk a little bit. Um, we have, uh, the other thing we wanted to talk

053about vehicles. Uh, you know, the chief had requested it. It wasn't proposed in this budget for another vehicle. Um, anybody have any thoughts or comments or questions regarding Um, I certainly have my thoughts. I mean, you know, I know last year I think we talked about the private duty using some of the funds from private duty to create an account which could help in purchasing some of I think that's something we should do. Um, I don't know how quickly or or what process or procedure the council has to take to make that happen, but I certainly think that's something we should do. Um, >> I agree. >> I don't know if the council has thought about it or, you know, certainly if you need time to think about it, that's fine. But, you know, procedurally,

054Rob, I I'll just put you on the spot. Like, you know, how difficult of a pro process would that be? >> Not. I would just need a number from you. So, if you tell me, you know, take 60 grand of, you know, special duty money that comes in for from the car charges we we um we we we send out to the vendors. then I'll just park the first 60 grand into CIP for for the specific use of vehicle replacement for the police department. Every penny that comes in above and beyond the 60 will stay in the general fund as it currently does. So, it's really just more more of a motion and and um essentially administrative order from from you, the town council to me just to to move the money out of the

055general fund. If say, and I'm throwing, if say we said it's 125, it's two vehicles and he didn't need two vehicles one year, can that can that money just roll over? Does it have to be reallocated and then start over? >> Well, if you give me a dollar amount for if you give me a dollar amount, for example, for one vehicle a year, okay, and we'll target 60,000, that's kind of the cost right now. Yeah. >> Um, and in a year where there's you may need two vehicles, >> I would just recommend budgeting for it in CIP. >> So, you could budget to rate raise CIP for the 60, but you're already generating 60 from the general fund. So, I mean, it really would go on a year-by-year basis, >> you know, depending on how

056many vehicles you would want to purchase in that year. My my my feeling is so we're not doing this every year are trying to scrap, you know, trying to come up with the money. If the if that private duty fund is is bringing in more money, you raise the rates and it it the car is sitting there. It takes it takes a life off the car. It to me it makes sense to to use that money. But my but when I the opposite of your thought was budget for it. What happens if it's doubled and he only needs one car one year? What happens to that extra 60? >> Well, I'm not I'm not saying to double the money. >> No, no, I am I'm >> okay. >> If revenue >> Well, if if say

057we tell you put 125 away, the first 125 for two vehicles every year, >> he only needs one vehicle next year. >> What happens to that money? Can it >> stay? It would stay in the fund. Yeah. >> Okay. >> As every other CIP line item does. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> That makes more sense to me because this seems to be a yearly struggle. >> I I agree. I mean, we used to have a plan where I think we were replacing three cars every two years and that was a while ago. I I couldn't even tell you when we were doing that. >> Way before May. Yeah. >> Yeah. We got we got off of it. And again, it's probably before many of us or you guys, not me. I was always here. But

058um yeah, that you know, we've certainly gotten away from replacing the vehicles and I think we need to find a way to to ensure that we're you know, at least replacing one and maybe it's two and certainly it's something we can modify as we go along. You know, >> once we get behind just a motion from you, the council, which can it's not a not an ordinance, not anything that has to go to, you know, it's it's your administrative decision. So, um you tell me what it is. It is what it is. And if you need to revise it for whatever reason, you can revise it. >> And and for the bottom line budget, if if we said yes, let's do this and start, you know, July 1, start this fund. What would that mean?

059What change would we have to make to the budget? The at least the expenditure side of the budget is that we're adding 60,000 to the budget. >> Well, if you're going to purchase a vehicle, you would add 60,000 to CIP with the revenue offset of monies coming in from special duty. Um so the net impact to the mill rateay for capital when that just this particular interest would be zero >> right >> now what would >> but the expenditure there would be an expenditure increase of 60 >> right but it wouldn't be raised by taxes because it' be raised by outside revenue correct so it would be a net zero to the mill rate um what it would impact in the general fund revenue side when you do the revenues after the budget is adopted

060um it would reduce our increase that I'm showing or would want to show for this year for special duty and we have a lot of projects coming up next year. I mean, we know there will be an increase in fees coming in. It's, you know, a good time to to start doing this. Um, so right now I'm targeting an increase of 90,000. It would be an increase of 30,000. If you say move 60 to the CIP fund, that's all. >> Okay. >> Still an increase in a general fund, just not as large as it would be. Revenue side, not expend revenue side. >> Okay. >> Compared to other towns, where are we on our charge for the use of the car for private duty? >> I would say below average. >> We're below. >> Yeah.

061There there was there were towns that were charging upwards of $50 or more >> Just for the car. And so, you know, when I thought of raising it by $6, which I thought was very conservative, knowing that we're, you know, for each hour an officer works, they get an hour for the car over 2,000 hours, which is very conservative, is 120,000 just from a $6 increase, right? >> And so, and again, we're we're only at $30. That's still very conservative. I I could see it getting raised in the in the future uh by even another $5 an hour and that again would bring in $100,000 of revenue. So, u yes, it would it would show less when we're trying to forecast how much we we should be should get, but it's not reducing what we

062had, >> right? >> It's it's just adding that extra cost. >> It's definitely doable. I think I mean I don't detail the fees between fees and car fees. I It's kind of one line. That's why it's one line item in the budget in the revenue budget. But I certainly can. We have the detail to do that. I just >> I would appre Yeah, I would like that. I would appreciate that. >> Okay. Any uh comments or questions regarding the vehicle and >> the special fund I guess we're calling that we're setting up. >> No, it's just part of the CIP fund. Okay. >> You know, just a revenue side of the capital expenditure fund. >> All right. All right. Um, you brought up an additional patrol officer as well. >> Um, does anyone have any

063comments or questions regarding adding a patrol officer? I mean, who wants to be the first one through the door? I know you I I know you want to do it um promotions and add a through through adding a patrol officer. You don't lose anybody by doing promotions. >> Correct. >> What does it look like if you hold off a year on the promotion and we fund a halfyear officer like we did last year with hiring a certified officer in January? What does that do? Does that is that workable? Uh well, it it again my my goal was a a five-year plan and that was really to get us to where I think we need to be um years ago. To be quite honest with you, my ultimate goal was to get enough so that we

064have a four person minimum, four officers that are on patrol during the day shift and then during the evening shift. Midnights would still be a three officer response. Uh because there's no way we could hire enough people to do four, >> especially given the, you know, the rotation that they work, the fact they work 365 days a year, the vacation time, sick time, uh, and everything else added in between. >> Uh, I can't guarantee I could hire somebody that's certified if that's what you're saying. >> No, I was just I know we were able to you were able >> I don't know how hiring a half of a person would would look. uh in in in in reality I I just don't know. Are you saying I would have to then wait until next July

065to get that one person or? >> No, no, in January. >> Okay. >> So half in half July and then half in January. >> Yeah. If I'm understanding >> instead of adding an officer on July one, >> we add we add the officer on January. >> January one >> that >> Yeah. fulltime. >> Full time but waiting >> waiting until January 1st. That'd be fantastic. >> And I know we we try you tried last year >> one of the replacements what you tried to hire certified so you didn't have to go through the academy so they could be on the road much sooner. >> Yes, we did hire a certified. We were very lucky in getting somebody Yeah. Uh getting somebody here, a very good candidate. >> Okay. >> Uh but again, it's it's >>

066we're going to operate. We're going to do what we need to do. But like I said, part of part of the plan is is a is a multi-year plan, which now is probably going to turn into a like I said, it's a it's a five to 10 year plan on on my on my end in terms of where I want this department to be when I hand it off to that next person. And so, uh, you know, it's like I said, thing it doesn't get any slower, >> right? >> Uh, people aren't doing less crime, there's not less motor vehicle work, there's not less paperwork. Uh and so trying to address that and bring us into that into the 2000s where you know we have as many officers on the road as we need. >>

067Right. >> How many are you away from having four on days and four on evenings? >> It uh it depends on what I factor in. Uh because I also need eventually to replace somebody in the detective division, >> right? And then I'm looking at that promotion. And so, you know, and then factoring in that nobody's ever going to be out of work on light duty or on a long-term illness. So, >> uh could I try to do it now? I could try, but that would be >> it wouldn't be worth the the negative consequences of doing it now. I would need at least one more person uh if not two. Okay. >> To at least make that leap, which is a big leap. It's it's something that in in 80 years this department hasn't done.

068It's our 80th anniversary I believe this year. So uh right 1946 >> Rosemary I'm asking you check. >> Yeah. No. >> So I think >> but you weren't you weren't interfere inferring that she was there. >> You weren't swearing in I believe. >> No they uh it's it's a it's a huge leap. A lot of departments uh have made that made that jump, especially the smaller departments that are in that 40 to 50 officer range and that have the the amount of work uh that can that that needs to have that kind of response or that that many officers on the road. >> Okay. >> So, >> what what would the for for the promotion what cost is that? uh I believe first year it's the difference in cost between >> the person becoming a

069sergeant that there which is a two-year so it's like 21,000 the first year okay >> and I think 24,000 the next year when that sergeant reaches that second step final step >> and then from then on it's like 24,000 per year >> okay >> to have that >> all right I'm just I'm you know I'm trying to you know you know if >> I feel like I had it >> if we used that 24 I mean what was 140 to add a an patrol officer. Is that the number or am I high? >> 75 plus the benefits which >> Okay. Yeah. And I >> Yeah, we we what's in the budget right now is 27 for the promotional site only, not the body, the new body. The new body be for half a year as

070you just brought up would be about 377. >> Okay. >> Just for >> excuse me, >> you know, the the body itself, not health insurance, anything else outside of the department. >> All right. Let me just write that down. All right. Anyone anyone with a question or a comment? >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes. >> Um I feel like um every year that I've had budget when we get to the police department like your department is obviously really important and it's a huge chunk. I feel like we meet with you and it's for me it feels chaotic like you need a lot right and I feel like we could plan a little bit better and I don't know if it's would be smart to even meet maybe a couple times during the year just to see

071like where you're at with the department what new things you think might come up that you would need for the next budget season just so when we get together it's not so I feel like it's just >> and we feel flustered all the time with the chief did do you know you did present I think I don't even know two years ago now was it I don't even remember >> I mean you have it's essentially fairly I don't want to say simple but I have usually the asks and CIP now that we're moving >> those items over to operational really >> just either cameras cars guns and then I'm always asking for a body and I will never say no to an extra body >> um until I get to where I think >> you

072know is that critical mass for us where >> where it's there's no way we're going to go above it and we shouldn't fall below. So, u but again, more of it I think is is and I'd love to to educate anybody on, you know, the the manpower we have. Um just like the school system, we have administrators. We have people whose job it is to sit inside of the building all day and try to do the administrative tasks that a that a 365 day a year, 24-hour a day building requires given state statutes, policies, procedures, grants, and and all the other things that we do. Uh there's a lot of work on that top end, and I've, you know, I'm trying to add to that, but at the same time trying to add to the

073to the bottom line, which is those officers on patrol. Uh and so part of that is me, you know, doing some some shifting uh and doing some things there and then getting the bodies from you so I can get to that that four person minimum >> because I I do think it makes sense. It's probably a good time, you know, and outside of the budget process, but you know, to sit down with a work session and you have your plan and show us, okay, this is what we've accomplished so far with the plan. you know, if it's changed or, you know, if there are any modifications that need to be done, but to see where we are in that process. I'd be curious. Uh because like, you know, unfortunately, I haven't asked those questions. And,

074you know, >> and part and part of that, you know, it's not an exact science. Part of it is is obviously how much work we have and how much crime we have. If >> there was absolutely no crime at all and it was just a sleepy town and we had maybe one call every eight hours, I I would not need four officers on the road. So part of that will be going over the calls for service, the amount of arrests that we make, the amount of time each officer spends doing reports, the lengthy investigations. Um, you know, and again, part of that is because the detective division is down people. And so some of those long-term investigations might have to fall into the officer where instead of going out on patrol and and and doing

075that particular job, they are now stuck inside for six hours trying to track down video from Ulta because somebody stole $3,000 worth of perfume. >> Yeah. >> Uh and a detective doesn't have the time to do it because they're working on a sexual assault. Mhm. >> Uh and so, you know, just trying to to juggle all that uh and having just enough manpower to do that is is obviously where >> you know what my job is. >> Maybe we schedule maybe we plan every September. >> No, I think it is. It's it's probably something that we should do annually at the very least, >> you know. I don't know. Just like Yeah, just like where are you at? You know, what are you feeling with, you know, even just listening to you talk about the

076detectives and understanding why you don't have enough detectives, you know? I don't know, you know, like, you know, and when I met with you when we had our meeting, I was very surprised to hear how different the police force works than what I envisioned. So, I think it's just having an idea of like where you're at in the department and if you might see some big foreseeable change, you know, like a different way you're going to, you know, set up the police departments and just kind of staying on top of it a little bit more. >> And I know you meet with the town manager, I think, regularly. So, you know, I don't know if it's even you meet with him and he shares with us or the best way to do it. >> Well,

077I think when it comes to the actual >> I mean, it's it's an education piece, right? It's telling this is these are the amount of people we have. This is what they do on a day-to-day basis. >> This is what we do during days, during evenings. These are the amount of tasks that we have to do. And >> there's thousands of tasks that have to be done by officers, not just going out and answering calls. you know, each person wears so many different hats for the things that they have to accomplish in in this career. Um, and it it's, you know, you think we're we're just Plainville, but we are not. We're part of a larger community. And and the amount of time we spend with our law enforcement partners, either assisting them or having

078them assist us is is also something I think you'd find surprising. So >> yeah, >> I think if we just like maybe if we know more understand it better like we we can prepare better. Like I'm like I like the idea about you know putting the money for the police vehicle every year like just kind of having that because we know it's going to come up every year. So how can we resolve just some of the every year issues and stay on top of anything new >> so we could just always be planning. >> Mr. Chair, >> um well I think councilwoman Buchanan did you say some want to say something? >> Thank thank you. I was actually um I I agree with Councilwoman Christopher. I had the same feelings um after not necessarily the

079exact same feelings, but after this is my first time up here and after receiving that presentation, my very first question and concern was oh goodness, why don't we have a a plan for this ahead of time? Why is why is this information being presented now? Um because it does seem I wouldn't say no to an extra body car. you know, those things, especially in your line of work, they're obviously important and they're they're finite um mainly. Um so I I agree. I like the the fund as well. Is there a way to um because it wasn't in this original budget, is there a way to get the fund going so we can be ahead of it in the future instead of behind it? Um, I guess I'm going I'm forgive me. I'm going back to

080the conversation of the car and I know we're talking about the body at this person. Ben, that sounds like what you were trying to do with January regarding the body. So trying to get what we need um as we grow, but not necessarily have to be put right on the spot to decide or be forced to say yes or no without um it having been included in the the original budget. And that was the other follow-up question I had too that Miss Christopher had. um how the frequency of how often you meet because I would love that update and I know you all you mentioned all wearing different hats and I know these gentlemen and and ladies are here as well that are doing the jobs in this building. Everyone's wearing five hats and doing

081the best they can. But I I think the more information we get on regularly, we won't ever have to have you in a situation if you feel that you don't have what you need, especially to manage Connecticut comments. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And and >> go ahead. No, actually I was going to go to >> No, you go first. >> Just to add on to that with the adding the officer in January as opposed I this budget's tight. We know that and I'm just trying to find a way a compromise is what was my was my goal. >> Yeah. >> Um I was just going to say also when uh if we do do like a presentation in September uh if you could you know u drill down a little bit on the crime statistics.

082We do get the monthly report. I I I look at them but you know especially like in terms of uh is there what the patterns might be and you know such as locations, times of day, uh times of the week and uh and also how that impacts on your personnel needs as well like you just gave that reference to you know a shoplifting versus a sexual assault. Um, and I think that would be helpful too. Sort of a um a little deeper look at the uh at stat statistics and what they mean and how they impact uh the way our um department has to be uh supported and um operated. Yeah. >> Sure. >> All right. Uh any other comments or questions? >> I Oh, no. If you have a question, go ahead. >> Um

083I don't know if you mentioned it. the SRO's. >> Yeah, that's on the list. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Yes. No, it is on my list, but we're getting there. >> Just and I don't know and I I don't want to say we're not going to act on your budget tonight. I I would like some information regarding, you know, the suggestion of a halfyear funding a halfyear patrol um position. Could we get how it compares, you know, the lieutenant position where we're were, you know, allocating what was it? 20 >> 21,000 >> you know taking the salary it's 37 or 39 you know not including the benefits I'm just curious what that delta would be as we try to you know so I guess I'm trying to say is you know it would be 70,000

084to fund a patrol officer position a new patrol officer position is that correct for a half a year >> 75 it would be about 377 at the current contractual rate for a new officer to start. Um, but at the same time, the police union contract expires June 30th. We don't have any successor contract at this point in time either. So, that number more than likely will go up a little bit. How much is to be determined, >> but for a half year to start um non-certified, >> correct? >> Certified would be higher. Y >> um be about 377 just for the salary for a halfyear officer. And any idea benefit-wise like is that >> well that's vary on the individual who's hired but one would you can probably make the assumption that it be a

085younger individual non you know a single medical insurance which is averaging uh well with the new rates it's probably about uh well it is see 13 about 16 grand just for medical insurance. >> Okay. you know, you throw in the whole, you know, social security, FICA, medic, you know, Medicare, all of that, you know, you're talking with with benefits, um, you know, upwards of 55 grand, probably plus or minus >> all in. And you got to outfit the individual, too. You know, >> I'm just trying to get a sense of, you know, if if you know how it compares to the lieutenant promotion. That's all I'm trying to get to. >> Yeah. the the lieutenants, you know, they're um we like I said, we did budget for the the adjustments to lieutenant and sergeant. So,

086we we did budget 27 and again that's based on the current contract. Um could be a little lower, a little higher depending on where we go, but 27's a good ballpark number for promotional increases that then would be backfilled with the, you know, the patrol division moving up and there may be a lag. you do six months and a lag for the start at the new officer, it'll make up for that, you know, right away. So, good. Y >> All right. Thank you. Um, so the SRO's I the town funds those 100% correct as it currently stands. >> Do do we have any indic or any research or any questions of other communities how they handle the funding of their SRO's? Have you have any experience with other towns? what how they handle it. >>

087You know, I I just know from and talking with other chiefs, it's it's a mixed bag. >> Oh, really? >> There are some departments that will fund it completely. >> Uh and but again, and also those positions might look a little bit different than they look here. >> Uh there are departments where the board of ed pays for the entire salary of the And then there's cost sharing. >> Yeah. >> So, it's any it's anywhere in between. I I wouldn't be able to give you numbers unless I reached out and did a >> No, that's fine. I was just curious how it's what other communities what they do and how they handle it. But it, you know, it sounds like it it's across the board, >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes. >> I think when we

088started the SRO, the first time uh the position started, it was split between the town and the board of ed and then some somewhere along the line that changed and but I'm not sure what year that happened. >> Okay. All right. any uh any comments or questions regarding the SRO's I mean I as I indicated I I I do think it's a conversation and we probably need more you know rep obviously we need to get with the board event to start discussing it and trying to come up with something if we want to make changes to how it's funded so um is you have any thoughts or >> no I mean I yes how it's funded those discussions you know can be made and that would >> that may not go quickly >> no but

089you know from from my from my perspective Uh, you know, it comes down to being able to put a body full-time into my police department. Um, you know, I'm a full supporter of the SRO program. I was an SRO myself. I believe strongly in the program. >> Uh, not just for the security it brings the school, but obviously the interaction between the SRO and the kids, >> uh, and and everything else that they do. Um, but again, it's it's when I'm looking at having a der of people and I look at an officer that's full-time and I don't really ever see them because they're spending the majority of their time, right? >> You know, nine months uh at a school building, you know, part of there's part of me that says I I would love

090to be able to have that that portion funded by uh the school system. That way, it gives the town that money to let me hire an officer instead. Otherwise, what other officers, what other police chiefs have done, and this, you know, I don't know if we're in that need right now, uh, is they pull their SRO back from the school. Uh, it's the chief's discretion of of how that officer's time is used. Uh, and again, that's decision I would never bank on my own. That's something I would I would have a conversation with the board of ed, with the town council, and of course, the town manager >> before I made that. So, u I I know Cheshire did that and then very quickly after that they had some changes there uh to get the

091SRO back into their into their schools. >> Okay. >> And of course at this point we have two one in the middle school full-time, one in the high school full-time. >> All right, >> Mr. Chair. Yes. >> And and just to clarify, we're talking about this in terms of FY28. >> I would I would think so. Yeah. This isn't in my mind. I wasn't talking about trying to make that change in in the fiscal year 27 proposed budget. >> This would be a discussion we'd have over period of time in preparation for next year. >> Just getting the ball rolling, >> right? Yeah. And the reason I say that, you know, we know these these sessions are being taped, you know. >> Oh, no. I understood it. >> Yeah. Yeah. And uh that and we

092could assume it and I think probably we all assume that and somebody uh who's a member of the public's watching it may sound like it's imminent. Yeah. >> Yeah. No, thank you. >> Just wanted to clarify. >> Thank you. >> Did you have a comment? >> No, I'm good. >> Anybody else with a comment or question? >> Mr. Chair, I have a question, but it's not regarding the SRO. Go ahead. >> Um, and you all probably know the answer, but again, >> new. Um, as far as the cost of the vehicle, um, the 60,000, do you get a you just get a car for that, right? Not the police car tricked out like a police car. So, the vehicle that I would be asking for this year, so we have eight Ford uh Explorers, they're

093they're they're police utility vehicles, and those are for the front line. Those are the officers that go out on patrol. They share those vehicles, usually two people, sometimes three share a vehicle, and they run for at least 16 hours uh a day. And we try to uh manipulate it so that certain people on certain shifts share it and that no one vehicle is getting too many miles on it and not no one vehicle is just sitting there with no miles on it. So that that extends the life of the fleet. But again, we have eight of them. So even if we got one car every year just for the frontline fleet, we'd have to make sure that these vehicles are lasting eight years, which is a long time when you're putting on, you know, 30,000

094miles a year or something like that. So, uh, right now the the vehicle that I have waiting for me, uh, at the dealer is, I think, 46,000 and change and then or a little bit more. And then we use the rest of that funds for upfitting. So, it can cost upwards of $20,000 to upfit a vehicle. And by upfitting, you're talking about the decals on the car, the entire light system with the lighting bar, uh the radio itself is $5,000 or so for the radio system. Uh then you need the rifle in the car, the rifle vault in the car, you need the prisoner cage in the car, a laptop, a laptop mount, an in-car video camera, uh and various other equipment to make that fully workable vehicle. So that's why uh we put the

09560,000 in there. >> No, thank you. And thank you for breaking that out. That it broken out like that, it sounds more reasonable if there's not additional costs after the fact as well. So >> very good. Thank you. >> All right. Anyone else? Um I I think again I I kind of indicated this. I I feel like this is something we'll vote on tomorrow night. I I would like, you know, I give Rob more homework to do, but you know, if it's possible, you know, talking about the uh vehicle fund, I don't know if there's a better phrase that you're going to call it, but you know, just to have you break that out, what we have to add to the department budget in that case, you know, giving us those numbers and all that

096uh for tomorrow night. Um that >> yeah, it's it's yeah, it's it's just part of the CIP. So we would add 60 for the expenditure side of the CIP >> and that's that simple >> add a revenue source of 60 if that's the number you want to use um to offset that. >> Okay. So the net is still the net just for those two transactions would be zero. Yeah. >> And what I you know didn't mention we also in in the CIP fund we have a line item for town clerk fees. So part of the fees that the common clerk generates goes to that fund too for other items, you know, purchases, vaults, vault things. >> Careful. >> You already know that. >> Yes. Um and it's used for used for for equipment purchases that

097again are not used, you know, all the time. >> Okay. >> So, you know, it's the same the the car where I'm going with this is the car would be the same concept. >> Okay. So whether you use the money, you don't use it, it's still there for needed one-time larger ticket item purchases. >> Okay. >> So I guess what summarizes, you've already done this once before. It was years ago with the town clerk fees. >> It's a good thing. >> Mr. patrol car is the most expensive with the exception of a K9. >> Uh you mean type of vehicle? >> Yeah. >> Uh at this point, yes. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. the K the K9 said we are going to replace the K9 officer that's in the works right now but we the

098vehicle is already set. So we have a K9 vehicle from actually we have two uh one was from uh when um uh one of my officers uh resigned if you remember. >> Yep. And so he had one of the older vehicles which was still serviceable. And then we had a newer uh vehicle for one of our other dogs, our other K9s. >> One of those K9 vehicles is on is in the private duty fleet. And so that's going to be still used as a backup K9 vehicle and the other K9 vehicle we keep maintained and keep it running. Uh so when the next K9 officer comes on board, the vehicle is already there. So we will not need to purchase a vehicle for that. I was just trying to figure out what the number should

099be if it it I we should probably >> It may change, right? It may change. I mean, are there years when I may want to? Yes. Depending on what happens. Are the years where I can go with zero? Yeah, I've already I've already done that and I've, you know, I wipe my brow and say, "Okay, that's over with and and let's move forward." Um, but, you know, if it if there's an average of one and I know at least the money is sitting there, then that's a good place to start. >> Yeah. Okay. >> All right. So, I think from a the capital perspective, which we'll talk about a little bit after after we finish with the both chiefs, actually, um we just simply have to add the 60,000. Um because regarding the halftime position

100that we were talking about earlier, I would like to wait till tomorrow night just so I can kind of think about that a little bit more. Um seeing that we just brought it up tonight for the first time. Uh you know, obviously Rob, if I have any questions, I'll let you know between now and then. Um, is there any other questions, comments anyone wants to ask or make of the police chief before >> Oh, I'm good. >> We bring the fire chief up. >> All right. Thank you very much. >> Thank you for your time. >> Appreciate your time. >> Fire chief, >> wake up. >> Don't worry. The seat will be nice and warm. >> Right. >> We've been here so long. the lights. The lights have turned off in the hallway. We've had

101no motion. It's >> like dark here. >> Thank you. >> All right. Good evening. >> Good evening. >> So, >> last week we touched upon an opportunity the town has to purchase a floor model and I What's the >> plane Jane? >> Plain Jane. >> Floor model would be >> uh pumper fire truck to replace one that is now 27 years old. >> 99. Yep. Um, so I think I I'll try to summarize real quick. Um, there's this plain Jane model that's available that is waiting for you to tell them yes or no because many other departments it sounds like would love the opportunity to >> Yeah, they gave us a first right of refusal because all of our trucks are made. >> You do have a copy of a proposal in front of you.

102Um, why I decided to bring this up or I think you know why we're bringing it up tonight is, you know, it is a 27y old pumper. Currently, if we were to go out to bid and and >> go that traditional route, >> it would be a 4-year process before we actually received the truck. And we would cost between 1.2 1.3 million. >> Yeah. >> Correct. >> Yep. So, our opportunity, as you can see in front of you, is, you know, we we have an uh invoice that for $780,000, we can take advantage of one right now being a plain Jane. >> Yep. >> Um, and that's why we're here. So, in order for this to work, however, we would have to add again to the capital to make it work. I'm going to leave

103it up to Rob, the finance director, to give like the details financially of how this would work if if you're ready to explain it, please. >> Sure. So, due to the timing of this, the age of the vehicle, the condition of the vehicle, and and the fact that one's available, um, you know, and knowing the budget's tight, the best way to do this financially would be to lease the vehicle initially. And I say lease, it's not lease. It's like that the company will get paid. We the town are just paying a lease back over a period of time. This vehicle will last, you know, 25 years. So my recommendation would be to expedite the process to get this process rolling to get the vehicle ordered, get it online here internally. Let's lease this vehicle. We'd

104go through our financial advisor, keep everything out in the open. No different than we do when we go out to the bond market. Um, so, you know, we'd basically do um um a lease agreement with a bank, whoever would, you know, give us the best rate, per se. Um, I'm targeting about $100,000 a year in payments. could be a little more or less depending on when the loan would close, interest rates, but over the next couple of years probably pay that loan off with a bond offering because the vehicle again is going to last 25 years which is the whole purpose of bonding and you know using it over the life expect paying for it over the life expectancy of the vehicle itself versus a 8 to 10 year loan. Um, so I I would

105recommend that we, you know, go through our FA or bond counsel, have the appropriate resolutions drafted up if you so want to go this route, get the information back from from my uh the financial adviser. Um, 100,000 is probably a good number to add if you're going to add anything into the budget. It'll go through the referendum process via the budget. It won't have to be a separate uh process. It's not circumventing anything. It's doing the right thing in just like a quicker fashion. That's all. um everything would still be above board with the financial advisor, the bond uh bond council and you as authorizing the resolutions. It would really be at the end of the day no different than you authorizing the town manager to enter into a grant agreement. You would just authorize

106the town manager to enter into a signed a lease purchase agreement and then a few years from now whenever we go back out to market for bond we would just roll in the residual amount. um you know, we we would ensure that the market or the uh lease purchase would have no prepayment penalties. Um you know, things like that. Kind of like your mortgage. You pay off your mortgage ahead of time. You save interest. There'll kind of be something like that. We would hope. Um but I would leave that up to our FA to figure out for us. >> Okay. All right. So, any comments or questions, Chief? Anything you want to share that you didn't last week? >> Well, you know, down the road, we're going to need another one to get rid of

107the 2004. They the president of Bulldog told me personally that if we bought two trucks right now they would give us a 16% discount and after talking to him a little while and you know they love the town. We've always bought their their apparatus. They will hold that they'll give us 16% if we buy another one within a year. >> Okay. >> They'll go back and give us that 16% off. But uh >> Okay. >> Yeah. It's something you know it's something needed. the truck has has seen better days. Um, it's still passed, you know, pump test, but then we have to fix certain things. So, it's nickel and dime in us for the last at least the last 10 years and like like I said last uh last budget meeting that, you know, we

108had that process of putting so much away every year and they stopped that. So, without doing that, now we're stuck with the big bill. >> Yep. Um, so it's probably hopefully it's something you guys can look at and and kind of put away for the future. >> Okay. Well, and yes, go ahead, M. >> Sorry, Mr. Chair. >> No, go ahead. >> Okay. So, because I see on the the capital spreadsheet here, so engine three replacement, engine four replacement. So, this one for this year would be which engine? >> Engine three. And then next year, you would be looking to replace engine four, which they would hold for you until next year. Is that what you're saying? as long as we give them a um >> a commitment. >> Okay. >> They're actually holding this

109truck just in good standards. They um you know, I didn't want to sign anything and then go back and have the So, I left that in your hands. Um but we could have this truck if it passes and everything happens, we could have a new truck in July. >> Okay. >> In not four years, which the government is looking into why it's taking so long. But, um, that that'd be great for us. >> And and going this route, it's we're saving over the long run a little over $400,000 and >> Yeah. >> four years of maintenance on this truck. >> Yeah. You know, it it's old. It's did its job. It It was a great truck. It still is a good truck. Uh, we'll they don't take tradeins. We won't do a trade in with

110them. Um we like we sold the uh our last engine one and our old tower we sold we sold those outright. Um you don't make a big I was told that this engine 3 probably go for 16,000 but engine 4 we should go for a lot more and Bulldog looking to purchase that themselves but mostly because they they make new fire trucks they don't deal with with use or or anything else. So there'll be no trade in on this. We'll we'll find someone to >> But you you'll sell it. Not I don't say sell it privately, but you'll >> town will just sell it >> to whoever wants >> our uh our old ladder went to Tennessee some town in Tennessee. >> So you know Maniffort's bought our old um engine one. >> So >>

111okay, >> they come and go. Um there's brokers out there that I can get a hold of to try to sell it, but you know, >> all right, >> we can take it from there, but >> All right. >> Um so I guess you know where we are is, you know, as a council, you know, we have a decision to make as Rob indicated, you know, we be I know adding another 100,000 to capital under this scenario. However, I think, you know, clearly this process would save us money in the long run. Um, and also even more if we do that commitment to a second truck. >> Yep. >> We actually can recoup what, 16% would be somewhere around $100,000 or so. >> Yeah. They make five or six of these trucks a year >>

112just for people like us, small towns. We don't need the big custom trucks anymore. Um, the last ladder we bought in 2020 was uh 1.2. That same truck right now goes for about 2.5. >> Wow. >> So, the the initial cost on on parts and pieces. If if you want to make money, just get build something and put fire department on it and it goes up to that. >> Paint it red. >> Yeah, it is just crazy. >> Okay. But >> all right. Um any other questions or comments? We are going to talk about capital next. Um so we can incorporate this discussion into our capital discussion. Um any other comments or questions for the chief? >> All right. >> Yes. >> Are you talking about two trucks? >> One right now. Well, we're talking

113about one right now regarding this budget, but there is a potential to get another one to replace the 24 year old. No, it would be 22 year old truck next year. >> Well, I'll take I'll take two tonight. >> No, I buy one get one. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> so yeah. So, tonight for tonight's purpose >> for two trucks at the same time. Well, >> next year. >> Well, potentially. Yes. >> But right now, we're only worried about one. >> Yeah. >> Well, right. For tonight's purposes, we, you know, our per is this. We have one available that they are holding, waiting for us to decide if we want it or not. Um, and anything we add to the budget tonight will just be about this one >> one truck, one pumper. All right.

114Anyone else? >> Thank you, Chief. >> Thank you. vote yes for the budget. >> Yeah. >> Thanks, Chief. >> All right. Good night. >> Um, so we've gotten through the board discussion. We've gotten through the police. We talked about the fire truck. I think the only other thing tonight we can talk now is the capital. And I think we might be able to vote on capital. It sounds like we don't have any leftover questions, concerns. >> I mean, I think we need to decide obviously, you know, with the with the vehicle. Just making sure we're comfortable with the 60,000 for the vehicle and then obviously we have to have a discussion on on the new pumper truck. Do we want to add that into the capital as well? >> Mr. Chair, can I ask a

115question to whoever has the answer? Just to go back to the police car for me, when we set up this fund and when would we start putting the money into it? July. >> July 1st. Okay. Um, >> yeah. >> Is there a way to get ahead of it so that way we have the money to buy it outright? >> We we would purchase the vehicle and sort of reimburse ourselves with the money that comes in throughout the course of the year. So it is it essentially is I mean if this is a voted on and approved by you then a vote voted on and approved by the um taxpayers as far as a bottomline budget we we could uh you know do a letter of intent to to get the vehicle and get it on

116board ready to go July 1st again as fees come in they would come in pretty quickly to cover that vehicle. So it would just be cash flow for out of pocket and put it right back in our pocket. So we could we are getting ahead of it essentially. And then how long, and I don't know if we know this yet with the fees just going up, how long would it be to take to get the next 60,000? >> Well, it depends on how how how many how how many jobs are out there? >> Sure. Based on the average of now, >> well, we we we raise about 300,000 a year. >> Okay. >> Well, right now with the bigger construction projects we've had going on. >> Okay. So that's, you know, that's like I believe

117Councilman Gtman said, you know, if there's less work in town, there's going to be less police special duty fees. >> So, but you know, we have a lot of Eversource jobs. We have a lot of, you know, gas jobs, electric jobs. We have uh lots of jobs. Whiting Street was one of those that just finished Broad Street. Um we have the I believe camp in Bradley area beginning next year. So, there's going to be um some projects going on next year. So the money, like I said, it's it's it's an easy fix for this year for I'm sorry, for next year 27 going forward, you know, more than likely with the increased fees, we'll still be able to generate the 60,000. >> Okay. And these fees again, just for me, have been going into the

118general fund. >> Yes. >> Until this as a revenue, right? Correct. Yes. Yep. >> Okay. >> But again, we're I'm requesting when we get to the revenues to increase that line item by more than the 60. So, even the general fund will show an increase while putting 60,000 into the the capital fund for this vehicle purchase. So, it's a win-win for this year. I'm saying it's a it's a good year to do this if you wanted to do it. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Anyone else? Any other questions, comments? Um, you know, I guess just generally, did you have >> Yeah, I was just going to say given the fact that we're coming back tomorrow evening anyway, if you don't mind, you know, if you want to summarize for me what you would

119like in capital and then, you know, we can sit with the town manager and see how we can work it out to best minimize the increase. Uh, given that you're going to add, you know, 100,000 and 60,000 and 9,000, you know, let we could work it all out to so that we have a a solid firm bottom line number for you tomorrow. and track all the ins and outs. >> That's Yeah, that makes sense. >> Okay, Mr. Chair, will you also be able to do that on the police department? >> Yeah, I would I would do it on all of them budget. Yeah. >> I mean, again, if you just want to summarize for me what you you know, what you would like to see, I believe on the police budget, it's adding the 50,000

120for the software cost. >> Yeah. >> Um the perhaps the half halfyear officer at 377. Um >> I believe that was all for police. Correct. I think 21,000 for the lieutenant. >> That's already That's already in the budget. Yeah, we had uh we had 27,000 for the um promotional salary increases. So, >> okay. >> Um that's already in there. Um >> can I add to your list? >> Go both ways. >> Go ahead. >> With the lieutenant, without the lieutenant? >> Well, you're really going to tax me on this, huh? >> Yeah. >> Um >> you're I heard you were short on overtime. >> Oh, yeah. Like I have nothing else to do. Um, so you want to show it. Well, we already currently have it in the budget that's proposed to you right now.

121Um, the the salary increases for the promotional increases are in there. >> So, you're saying to take you're saying to take those out? >> Yeah. I'm just trying to find a I want to give them My personal feeling is I'd like to give them as much of a new body as we can. And if it means sacrificing a promotion, it you know >> now and again I like can can we direct the chief >> like you know we if we made that change we say you know we're going to fund a half a new patrol officer on with the understanding that you will not make this promotion. Is that something we're allowed to do as a a council? Well, yes. And I mean, in terms of how you're how you're fund choosing to fund it,

122that would be the trade-off. I think you'd have to understand that you're going to fund an officer, but here's the string attached to it. Yeah. >> Defer. >> You can add you can add it to you can >> No, I'm just making sure. Yeah. From like a, you know, a high level here that we're >> right. So, if you're waiting for the new body for half year only, then do the promotions half year and then all of a sudden the 27 becomes an all essence 135. >> So, >> wow. Oh, now you got me going another way. >> Yeah. No. >> Yeah, that's >> No, I mean I I you know, again, you're talking $27,000 or 135 or zero if you there's your three ways >> and we don't sacrifice morale in for because you

123know being incentivizing opportunity and growth is so important to any group of people. Um it's hard because we do have to unfortunately nickel and dime and now we're adding things into the budget and you know we're gonna have to potentially I'm not saying we're adding anything into the budget but we're potentially adding things into the budget and discussing adding things to the budget. Um and I think that every option needs to be looked at. And I think one of my biggest takeaways here and um as Christopher brought it up is again going back to an organizational standpoint. How could we have avoided having some of these conversations here in real time when we're having to make such finite big decisions and we could have gone ahead of them a little bit more. Yeah. Then we're

124also doing the body armor that's going in CIP. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> yeah. Well, that's what I was saying. So, you're adding nine, but we can reduce I believe the town manager already said reduce sidewalks. I mean, that's kind of a wash, but it's those kind of, you know, maybe we could watch. >> No. Yeah. We want to make sure we're all on the same page and we all understand exactly what >> and maybe we can nickel and dime the other projects for the 100,000 adding for the fire truck if that's where we want to go as well. So we could >> we'll come back with some sort of proposal for >> look forward to what you have for us. >> Yeah. And I'm definitely in favor of the pumper truck and then another

125one replacement the engine number for next year. >> Yes. >> We'll probably Yeah, we'll Yeah. And we'll we can do the insurance the um the insurance fringe benefits tomorrow too as well. >> And one other one other little thing, you know, I had a conversation earlier with the town manager and there was some discussion about um the line stripping striping and the >> much like Yes. Yeah. So, what uh Rob and I can do tomorrow and and ahead of tomorrow night's meeting is look at those items that you again increasing the budget moving uh trying to make up for the $100,000 uh lease payment. So, um much like taking the page from the police side, um I think we can identify line striping and our um >> crack sealing as two items and our HVAC

126study. we could probably I think those are three items that would get us to a 100,000 and the reason is that we can still get uh uh the uh crack ceiling and marking done under the road bond package. Right? So it might likely like the police we shifted from capital to operating, right? We're going to shift off the capital no net increase and shift it and get it done under the bonding package. And you're not talking the line striping machine. You're talking the actual road striping. >> Road, right? Marking. Okay. >> Pavement marking in the crack ceiling. >> 50. So item uh So it would be items 31 uh items 54 and item 56. >> 54 and 56. >> 54 56. And then I'd shave another five from HVAC. And that would get us the

127100. >> Okay. >> A match offset. >> All right. So yeah. So tomorrow night. Yes. come prepared to explain it that way and >> yeah I'll map it all out and see you know um >> you know with with with increase how we can off offset those increases as as much as possible. >> Okay. >> Does roadway sign replacement and traffic calming fall under the same category as cracking? Um I don't >> that one I would really >> I'd almost rather leave that in capital simply because it's it's >> it's more equipment. >> Okay. >> Right. >> You know um and we do have to replace a lot of signs because you know of accidents and people driving. So um uh yeah um but the other two are really again it's more appropriate we may

128feel to go through the road bond and pay for that through that project which we're already bonding for anyway and we have you know money set aside for paving um because this both has to do with the streets that we're paving >> right >> so it kind of makes sense like moving the software to the operational budget from CIP >> right >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes. >> Where in all this budget do we get these lights fixed? >> Are all the >> There's a lot of >> I was going to say, is there a switch that's not on? >> Has it always been like this? I haven't noticed. >> It was only one for a while. I was judging the one. Now I have to >> I don't >> I think there must be a

129switch. >> Well, thank you for pointing that out. That's all I can think about now is >> we have moonlight the lights on. Yeah, that's right. >> It's a visual aid >> for how much we really need to turn and invest into this town hall and the folks that work in it. >> Well, on that note, since >> motion to adjurnn. >> Yeah, I was going to say unless anyone has a question or a comment, I think we have our marching orders. We'll be back here 6:30 tomorrow night. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> So, moved. Second. >> All those in favor? I >> Thank you very much, everyone. We'll see you guys in about 22 hours.