Farmington Town Council Budget Meeting - 03/11/26

001Good afternoon everybody. Thank you for coming. I' like to call this uh uh town council of Farmington meeting on March 11th, 2026 to order. >> And uh Patty, would you like to do the pledge for us? >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Let's go to item C. I'd like to open the floor up for public comment. You get five minutes. Please give us your name and your address. >> Do I have to stick specifically to the budget? >> No. >> Just public comment. So, this is Paul Krell. I have property on Metal Road. I think it's 374 or 376. And I've been involved with the sidewalk committee for some time now. And damn,

002I didn't bring it. Oh well. One of the problems is that we never had the the survey. There's a newspaper article um dated August. And for the life of me, it either fell out of my folder or it's in my car. And the article is put on put out by some small um I think they're down in North Carolina firm. But the key to the article was the sidewalk committee people here was interesting interested in having the folks on metal road survey. And I've been pushing it back for a long time. And in September when I asked when it was going to be done, I was told it's going to be wait until after the election because of they didn't want to make it political. Now my knowledge of democracy is this is political. It's

003about what the people want and the people select who they want in the council based on the political, not on a dictator saying you're going to do this. Not that I'm saying anybody is. That never happened. So after the election, I went back in and I asked um actually I as in in December I was sick. I asked and I didn't I was looking through the the minutes. I couldn't feel find anything that said that we weren't going to do it. But when the development for that special meeting that was held what is it three weeks ago uh for the town it excluded metal road totally which was kind of interesting because my brother went and he raised a question so in the future wouldn't people on the sidewalk proposal shouldn't they be met with

004to have input into what's going to happened and he was interrupted to say we're not um here to talk about metal road which really should have been and he said we're not I'm talking about in the future now this drive this sidewalk is the first in 20 years per per the town manager I think it was 20 or 25 I would like to propose that before you go any further that you create a new committee with that with the street. I started talking to some of the folks. There are mixed reactions um and have them come up with the solution. I'm not sure that it's going to be good for everybody, but it's certainly not good if it's at town because the town's already moving forward putting the plans together. Now, there's also aside from

005that, I had asked for a copy of the Justin Lane agreement on um clearing the snow. My understanding based on the response I got was that it's not in writing, but there's a verbal one. The proposal I would make in in in the new sidewalk committee would be a minute would be extend the agreement from Justin Lane up both directions and take care of the of the the snow removal. Treat it as an extension of the school or whatever you want to call it. Come up with what you want. It's a unique situation, the first in 20 years that could potentially help solve the problem. I I have raised an issue um that 200 feet at my end and I think 200 feet at the other end in front of the pond there are there's

006an easement. When they bought my grandfather's farm, Patty's at that point, um the state was involved. that was easily put on and there's the dispute as to whether or not the sidewalk can go on or not. When I talk to the EP, they tell me no. They tell me come see them if they insisted it going through. Um I really would hope that I don't have to have it on my grandfather's farm. But that's some of the stuff I didn't cover yesterday. Thank you. >> Thank you, Paul. >> Is there anyone else who would like to make a comment in chambers? Take one. I found a pen. Is this yours, Kathy? >> Uh, no. >> No. All right. Okay. I'll keep >> Paul. Did you leave a pen up there? >> Here you go, man.

007All right. Not too bad. Uh Tim Kelly, 62 Westview. All right. Since the uh latest CPI inflation numbers were just announced this morning, uh for those of you who didn't hear, it came in at 2.4%. Now, whether you think the number should be 2.4 or 2.6 or 2.8, 8 the uh Farmington school proposed budget increase is more than 50% higher than that at 4.35%. And I think it's probably a bad strategy for us to go out to the taxpayers with a pitch that says, you know, our inflation is higher or tougher than yours. Um you know, by the way, 25% of residents in town are over age 60. uh the social security uh cola this year was 2.8%. So you have a lot of benchmarks to to think about there and you know gas prices

008are going to go up and they're going to go down and then we'll start a new school year in September. Um anyway, it's probably a good uh idea to start with a common understanding of what we actually spend on education today. For some reason, nobody ever seems to put all the numbers on one easy to read sheet of paper. So, you can take a second to look at your handout. Presently in Farmington, education is a hund00 million business. In other towns like Avon and Bristol, there's a board of finance to help callull through line items and vet these budgets. in Farmington. That is your job on the council. Given that well over 80% of the Farmington school budget is dedicated to salaries and benefits, that's the first place to look for savings. In the superintendent's

009presentation last night, it showed that we are not increasing headcount and that the general wage increase given is 3% for the year with no increase in stipens. However, the salary line calls for an increase of over 4%. This creates a budget padding of $600 to $700,000. Unfortunately, u this has become an annual practice at Farmington schools and that's just too much slack to have in the system. So between this amount, say 650k and over 300k of un undesated funds currently stashed in the recently established non-recurring account, you have a million dollars of immediate potential savings. Reducing this fluff will have no impact on people or programs. All right, now get to the hard part. >> All right, I think we can all agree Farmington Public Schools in the business of educating students. So the first

010key component of school budget is the actual number of pupils you need to teach. This drives the quantity of classrooms, number of teachers, amount of potential special services, etc. It's the foundation to the whole budget construct. The proposed school budget presently uh assumes a student count of 3,990, about the same as our current enrollment of 4,000. Since we are building the entire FPS budget on this assumption, let's take a closer look at it. In the last cycle, we saw the pushup numbers, and I think most of you know what that is, just graduating everybody up to the next level, yield an actual enrollment of 4,000. So, the pushup number was 39.87 if you're on first page of the handout, and that gave us enrollment of 4,000. The BOE uh chose to go with a different

011enrollment estimate and booked their current school budget at 4,100 students and over projection of 100 kids. That's a big miss at 20,000 per pupil cost. Now for the coming year, the pushup number is down to 3,927 students. So that's page two of your handout. uh but the uh school system wants a budget based on enrollment of 3,990. So if last year's pushup number of 3987 gave us an actual enrollment of 4,000, how does this year's pushup of 3927 60 less yield an enrollment of 39.90 which is only 10 less? and that's shown on page three of the handout. So, you're going to need to be extremely granular in describing how you got there. >> All right. Thank you, Tim. Appreciate >> it. The work. >> Last point here. >> We're at time. Um, I'm going

012to ask that because of the impact on headcount, uh, and the emotional issue here that any council member who, uh, as a spouse full-time in the school system recuse themselves from the, uh, detailed review. >> Okay. Thank you, Tim. Do we have anyone else in chambers who would like to uh make a comment for public comment? Not seeing anyone else in chambers. Cat, do we have anyone online who has raised their hand? >> Nope. No hands online. >> Okay, let's give it a moment. Do we have uh else raised? >> Nope. >> All right. Well, let's close public comment and thank you everyone who shared their thoughts. I appreciate that. Let's move on to D to consider the proposed 2026 27 budget. >> Brian, would you like me to kind of like give an overview

013of the evening? >> Please do. >> Okay. So, typically what we would do is that the the board would come up and you guys will go through the board's uh budget. After you're done with that, we have um we'll take a break. We'll have sandwiches and then my staff will start and we'll start. I think we were going thinking of doing uh general administration we can do. I thought we'd hit some of the capital projects where we can have some discussion about that debt service and um potentially the special revenue funds depending on how much time we had and we were aiming to go between about 8 o'clock at the latest. >> Does that work for everyone? >> Okay. All right. >> Awesome. Thank you very much. >> Okay. Okay. >> All right, my friends,

014come on up. Look forward to hearing from from you guys. Thanks for presenting. >> Welcome and team. >> Okay, we need to All right. Well, good afternoon everyone, members of the town council and members of the community. Thank you for having us here this afternoon to go back through our uh recommended board of education budget for the 2026 2027 school year. Uh we're hoping to uh have our team available to answer any questions you might have. Uh if you'll uh humor us just for a moment. I realize there's uh some members of the team here that uh you might not be familiar with. So just in case, we'll just quickly wrap around, introduce ourselves, and then we'll kick it off. Matt looks thrilled to uh start with that. So we'll have >> Matt Ross, director

015of finance and operations. >> Wendy Vanish, director of special services. >> Dan Jones, the superintendent of finance and operations. >> Hi. >> I'm Beth. I'm the business. >> I think I got everyone. So uh >> Oh, Sam Katrick, our director facilities will be on his way. Just had a union matter he had to address. >> All right. Thank you. This is the team that's been working since probably last uh spring to put this budget together. So, you know who's in the room answering your question. Uh if Okay, great. We're on slide 13 already. So, um last evening just chose this slide to kick us off uh this afternoon. Last evening we went through uh the budget and uh presented here is that high-level overview of each series found uh in the overall operating budget uh

016that represents uh the changes from last year to this year's recommendation. Take a moment to just review that and then we can skip ahead two slides Mr. Ross and we will begin with the 100 series salaries. So just a reminder this budget driver uh salaries the 100 series uh is a recommended overall increase of 4%. Uh the 100 series accounts for 66% of our total budget and reflects negotiated contract obligations for all staff. Uh so uh with that I will open it up to questions and uh as I mentioned our team's here to uh walk you through it. >> Uh do you have any questions please? >> No I don't. >> Okay Bill questions. >> No in this uh object I have other questions down the uh down the road but not with respect to

017salaries. >> Okay. Um we had public comment this evening about the salary line or this afternoon about the salary line increase. So it's a GWI of 3% but that's al plus a step increase. So it's the 4% increase because there's also a step for the faculty. >> So the the total salary line obviously that we do have a new teacher contract that's coming into play uh you know starting from next year and so that has the step and then the increase in there. And then obviously that would also be adjustments for um you know any kind of staffing changes and and different pieces uh that that are there. >> And and this item is your best understanding of what the faculty body is going to look like next year because you can't really predict on

018what step. So generally speaking in grades 1 through 12 we have a pretty set understanding of what those numbers will be. Um you know I think most educators running a school district would tell you like we kindergarten is a moving target from time to time. Uh you know we do use information from demographers but um that said there are years where we might have more kindergarteners than we expected or less. Um, having run an elementary school in the past for several years, there's times where we were surprised even come August when you might have uh what could fill up an entire classroom of students move in and times where uh it's less than that. So, kindergarten is always the variable, but generally speaking, those numbers in grades 1 through 12 are pretty accurate to our

019needs. >> And one other group of questions, the salaries section, is that where we're adding in the uh supervisor for special services? Yeah. Can you go to the next slide, Matt? So, so one one of our themes this year was just shifting resources and uh as you know, we spoke a little bit about um last night, but but certainly with Wendy here with us this afternoon, if you have some specific questions, I know she'd be um you know, happy to walk you through it. We've seen an increase in need in the uh student services department. So, while our overall numbers of students who have IEPs and 504s hasn't increased dramatically, the complexity of those needs has um and we see our teams, you know, there's an overabundance of responding to needs um reaching out for

020support. Uh we also, and I I don't have the exact numbers, but I know Wendy does. Um the number of PPTs meetings um responding to students in crisis has uh grown tremendously and one of the things we want our leaders in every school and departments to be able to do is be able to be providing leadership on the ground level day in and day out um to their departments. And that's one of the things that I have heard um from Wendy and her team that in responding to uh I don't want to say emergencies, but emergent needs on a regular basis has prevented them from doing that. Uh and so we believe that boosting leadership in that department will do two things. It'll make us more responsive as a school district to those student needs.

021um but also help us to avoid future issues um that tend to come up uh when our leadership is spread thin. Uh this chart represents some of those changes. So we see the overall impact um in terms of uh certified FTE. I don't want to be misleading that that's the number of full-time staff. Um and so obviously there's variability within that. Uh we do uh recommend a reduction in uh elementary positions of 7.4 positions. Uh and then we have the addition of the secondary supervisor of special education and then the care team member who is also a special um a student services staff member. >> Thank you. >> Um if you had a followup. Well, I do. Well, I because actually I did have some questions on this, but you have one. I'll wait my

022turn. We come back. Thanks. >> Um um there are a few places within the salary series um where there's shifting from to grants off of grants. And one of the concerns we've had in prior years is making sure that we're not shifting to grants only to have those grants go away the following year. So, we have to ship back >> to operating. Um, in some of them, for example, it's like there's a 0.5 FTE school psychologist. So, I I don't know that it makes sense to go through each of them individually because individually they're a little >> smaller, but can you maybe speak to the process that you've used in evaluating where they're going to grant and where they're or shifting to grant or shifting back to operate >> if that makes sense? Um, so

023we always work to be very thoughtful about making sure that we don't end up doing that that putting you know salaries onto grants that that may be you know that that aren't there uh you know in future years and then putting the burden back onto the operating expense. So when we put them on the uh when we put salaries on the grants, it's typically with, you know, IDA, title one, ones that have almost become, you know, I don't know if I want to say entitlements, but ones that that have been pretty consistent year in and year out. And while we would always, you know, we wouldn't always appreciate the federal government uh kind of increase those at at a kind of rate, they, you know, they tend to typically stay flat, but they tend to

024be very consistent. Um and so when we when we have those when we do shifting of those a lot of times it's actually more for really just accounting purposes a lot of times because once again the salaries for us will increase based on the contract. And so now in order to take a position uh to keep them on the grant now it becomes a 100% of that salary doesn't fit. you know, 93% and so then seven has to go back onto operating. So what we might do is we might shift that person and then find somebody who's on the operating and then shift them onto the grant. So it just keeps them as a whole so that when we're kind of keeping track of employees, you know, they're not listed as a you know 67

025and you know a salary here and a 33. Um you know Ann will our director of HR she'll look through and see if if there's ones that we can just kind of fit nice and cleanly as 1.0's. So, for the most part, when you see some of those shifting, it's really mostly accounting purposes, but we always want to make sure we're super transparent about things and and so when we talk about shifting, we'll we'll we'll say those. But, um, generally speaking, there's very rare that there that if we have a grant that we think is a one-year grant or it has an expiration on it and it's not an annual grant that that we would expect to get, um, you know, we it's it's I don't want to say ever, but it's it's rare that

026we would put that salary on there because of the point that you made. >> Okay. I don't have any other questions on this right now. >> Okay, real quick. So, >> um I want to make clarify something that was said last night. Make sure that I heard it correctly. The point four for special ed and the 0.5 for special, those are existing staff members whose hours are basically expanding. >> Yeah. So, we have Oh, go ahead. >> Oh, sorry. So, the So, the Yes. Uh the 0.5 um school psychologist >> uh there is currently we currently have someone at a 0.5. It's moving to a 1.0. >> um obviously contractual you know pieces there that you know to to see you know they have decide if they would want to apply to to move up

027to the 1.0 and and there and increasing there and the point for Wendy that one that one's a new for for increasing needs >> but it's a person so that be a new that' be a new body or someone who's here who's getting an expanding role >> no it would be a new body >> a new body >> okay um can I also want to go turn over to the non-certified staff I saw you um reduced 2.0 pair of professionals. So, you know, we we we understand and you've indicated that there's a expanding need and identify identified stu population of students with challenges. Um, can you help inform us as to the decision as to why we're reducing on paris and and really I understand maybe in this in the short term, but I what

028I worry about is in in the out years, you know, when we may need them again, you know, you know, so kind of walk me through that if you could, please. So you can never predict the needs but one of the >> Excuse me Wendy could use the microphone. Oh y >> So one of the things that we are trying to do is with that level of staff what we know is there is consistent turnover all of the time. So in order to support those needs and then the the scope of what we're looking at are students that have more significant needs need more related service providers, right? So they need speech and language, they need nursing services, they need the school psychologist services. So and we want to support them and make them as

029independent as possible. So as we looked at these things with the turnover that we have in staff, there's a natural decline each year for turnover and people to be vacating those paraprofessional staffs. So supporting them with the certified staff is just leveraging really the quality of instruction and really meeting their needs rather than staffing them with a pair of professional that doesn't have the specialized training needed to really support what the actual service is that's being delivered. >> So it sounds makes perfect sense. So what you're trying to do is deliver value correct >> uh to in terms of the um the type of service that's being provided. You know, it's it's and I guess in historically you might take a situation with a child that needs and and you and you I don't want

030to minimize it, but you put that child with a parent that's not really responding to that child's needs. And so this budget kind of steps away from that a little bit and says, "You know what? We we recognize this population of students that require different types of interventions. A paraprofessional in and of itself doesn't really respond to that that that cohort of students needs. These other positions do. So you're you're reducing staff to provide some additional value." What it sounds like to me. >> Yeah. AB absolutely and I think you know that's something that we want to stress that when when we started doing this budget development a lot of it was okay you know identifying those needs whether it's you know the 0.5 nurse but also being thoughtful from a fiscal standpoint and saying

031okay you know how do we pay for that without just adding adding adding and so looking and and kind of really having thoughtful conversations about what are those opportunities that we can try to kind of make it as costneutral as possible but while one making sure we're meeting the needs the students, but at the same time being fiscally responsible. >> It sounds like, you know, it's it's a thoughtful approach to probably the biggest, you know, uh percent change in our budget is is the special ed line basically, right? It's not really a line, but you know what I'm saying? Sure. And um that that's really well done. I don't know if this is a good time. Um Wendy, I know for my prior wearing my prior hat, um you do quite a bit in terms

032of trying to minimize the financial responsibility of the district for kids with special needs. and and I know you've been leveraging grants and other sources of funding. Um, and I think it's a story that has not really been told, you know, to the or given the the the amount of attention it it requires because it is an important story to tell because this budget looks a heck of a lot different, right? Your proposed budget looks a heck of a lot different without some of the work that I know you're doing to help minimize our costs. Can you talk a little bit about some of the stuff that I mean, Jess how you guys want to present that, but I'm curious >> hear about the work that you do to make the budget work the way

033it does? >> Well, some of the advantages have been and it's all along the same lines of while overall our special needs numbers look like they're flat, the intensity of those needs is growing. So, those children are requiring more services with that service delivery. What we've also had the opportunity to do which we didn't have historically in the past is for our excess cost grant now some of our in district students would actually meet the threshold where we could apply for getting money back from the state too for those children and their needs. So that has provided us with um opportunities to be able to support and bolster services in ways that we were not able to do in the past. >> Can you explain what that actually means because these are kids that would

034normally we wouldn't be getting reimbursed for. And >> these are indistrict students that we're not getting state reimbursement for, but you've been able to with the additional work that you're doing. You're you're identifying certain needs that we which would trigger state reimbursement that we otherwise might not be getting. Correct. When you calculate the the needs and services for what the children are actually receiving, they now meet that threshold where we can apply for the grant. before if they were below that certain four four and a half times threshold we would not be able to apply for them on the grant and we would not be receiving any money back but because of approximately I would say more than 68% of the special needs case load now have students that have very complex needs with multiple

035services they reach that four and a half times threshold which allows me to be able to apply for the grant for them and then receive some money back through excess cost. So, that's provided opportunities in some of these things that we're looking at that we weren't able to provide before. >> Is that shown in the budget book in the in the grants section or where would where would we see that if we wanted to look at it? >> Um, so you would see um some of that we have um in there for the grants. Other places you'll see kind of notes in the budget where we'll say uh revenue applied from grants. Got it. So, you might see that in uh private tuition, you might see that in transportation. those are relations. So it's not

036you know it's not kind of specific in there but we we make a little note that um you know expected revenue would be applied into those but the reason why I asked the question people that might be looking at mean I'm familiar with how that looks but people might look at it and say well where does it say that on special ed doesn't really say it like that it's it's spread out across various you know points in the book basically >> yes and it's and and once again it's the you know the the classic the timing you know we build this budget you know January to get it really approved in May but we don't even know how much the state's going to give us for the following year until sometimes December of that year.

037So, you know, everything is really projections that that that we make that we're constantly adjusting on the fly. >> Last question. I know you you increased uh there's a So, is there a summer school? Was there a summer school increase for position? Did I Did I see that right or am I am I wrong? >> Am I wrong? >> Yeah. No. All right. Never mind then. Okay. >> That's all I got. Thank you very much. >> Thanks, Bill. >> Thanks, Brian. >> Dave. >> Yeah. My question is um on on page two under under uh basically the account for principles obviously I want to focus on an additional FTEES being requested for secondary supervisor special services I'm assuming the next page is this right which is kind of gives you all the schools it gives

038you it gives you the numbers that are basically uh the the preliminary professional staffing so I'm assuming saying that this secondary supervisor or special services is under the special education line. Would that be accurate? >> Um, so there's there's 64 there's 64 professional staffing positions under special education >> which is now 70 you know it was 64 in 2020 it's 70 and 26 27 is that correct? >> Uh oh. I see what you're saying. I was uh looking at that. So, uh let me just >> Yeah, page four. Now, I was on two. Now, I'm page four because page three was intentionally left blank. >> Yeah, page 15 would be a better view. >> Page 15 is a better view. Okay. >> Okay. >> That's where we do it by category. >> Administrator. >> Yeah.

039>> Administrators are typically >> certified. on 15. >> We're you're pointing me to 15, right? >> 15. >> Yeah. >> So, just to clarify, page four really focuses more on like the certified staff, the teachers on there. Okay. >> This position is really considered more of an administrative position. It's considered an administrative position. So, if you see on page 15, that's where we do the staffing by category. Okay. So you can see that um first one that maybe a punch hole got through it district administration. >> So this so then the person for so the FTE that we're asking that is in this budget is secondary supervisor of special services. Where does that plug into? >> Uh I believe it would be principles and directors. Correct. Yeah. >> Okay. Principles and directors. So which is

040fine. So I guess at that point um are these is now in that category of special you know supervisor of special services is that breaking the is there are two people there now or one person's getting a person like how how is this somewhat coming together >> currently for all of the supervision for special services there's myself >> right >> and there's one secondary supervisor I mean there's one supervisor, one special services supervisor. So what we would be doing is then delineating the different the district between splitting that coverage in half to having a elementary supervisor and then a secondary supervisor. >> Oh okay. So that so there will be an elementary supervisor that's just taking care of the elementary schools and then this person is taking care of everything else >> would be would

041be the secondary and then there are other supports and services that are required for my supervision which would cover the schools um and better supports for the both the staff administrators and responsiveness to the families and the children of course. >> Okay. Um and and are we and in back to back to this page 16 where you're reallocating reallocating uh some you know some units districtwide you're going down 7.4 for does this all balance out plus or minus? I mean just through your administrative side of things >> overall it's not it's not 100% cost neutral uh but much of it has been you know offset by reductions of you know whether it's air professionals or a nurse clerk um you know the reduction of the elementary teachers due to lower classes at the elementary level.

042So but it's not you know If you took every the position that were added positions you're taking away, it's not 100%. >> It's not a 100% level, but >> No, but it it gets pretty close. And once you also then apply the additional projected revenue from grants from like excess costs, it gets pretty close. >> Got it. Okay. And then the only other thing would be and and somewhere else I saw the nurses contract is up for negotiation and that's in process right now. >> Correct. That's uh probably uh probably April, May. >> Got it. Okay. Thanks. That's my question for >> And I would just say it's fair to to probably mention over time it would give us two supervisors, but we're somewhat projecting out based on who we'd like to attract to the

043position. Over time that could change. You could have people move. The the idea is that we'd have two supervisors. The secondary piece is a skills-based right now, but over time that could shift and you could see an elementary supervisor posted two or three years down the road. um because that's where the need is for that position. >> I see. >> That makes sense. >> Okay. >> Thank you, >> Naen. >> Yes. Hello. So, on the back to the the reductions here, so are any of these teachers potentially being able to be redeployed into any of these positions for getting reskilled or >> Good question. So, uh, that's been a lot of our conversation the last few weeks, uh, because of course our goal is to try to not lose any of our staff. Um, you

044know, a lot of time and resources go into coaching these people up and and getting them prepared to meet the standards of the Farmington Public Schools. Um, but at this time where we sit today, um, you know, the four there's four individuals that would be impacted by those reductions. We do not currently have a place for them. Um, as Dan always reminds me, um, everything changes and between now and August, we'll see a lot of movement. So, we've kept them apprised of, you know, the work that we're doing. Uh, if nothing changed between today and, you know, August, we would um, and actually we we're responsible for letting them know that they would be a non-renewal as of May 1st. So, Connecticut state statute is clear that we have to inform them by that date.

045Um, so if nothing changed between today and then, they would technically be non-renewed. Um, but they would have uh we would continue to see what happens with staffing. Um, and then they actually as a teacher who's been non-renewed have recall rights for two years to come back to the district. >> Thank you. >> And then my second question on the plus two maybe that's point that's plus point two on the business teacher. What specific programming or enhancement to the programming are they teaching for business? >> And is that request or >> Yeah. So that is um again this is back to Bill's question about what that's with current staffing that we have. So it's somebody that right now is a point 6 would be able to become a point 8. >> Um and it's an

046area where the state has put in a requirement of personal finance. And so by trying to staff the personal finance, it did mean that some of the other elective courses weren't able to run because um that that requirement was put in. But on top of that, we've been engaged in a program review um really looking at what are some of the courses. It's a it's a very popular sort of strand in our programming. And so we've been looking at some other kinds of classes including um you know an AP business class and all those kinds of things. So, it's it represents um responding to a requirement um but also adding some programming in an area that is popular and we've had to turn students away. >> Great. Glad we're getting back to the basics. >>

047How to balance a checkbook. >> Save money. >> Good. >> Thank you, >> Bruce. >> All right. Um I I I have an emotional problem. I um I come from a different generation and I'm not steeped in some of this like my colleagues are and I I know I read our uh you know our budget and it it is my perception that you know many of the ills of society are being thrust on our schools and you guys have to have to cope with that like you never have uh before. But when I hear things like, you know, we have the same size student body, but they're needing ever more services every year, that alarms me. Um, and it alarms me because I think that, you know, why where is that line where we have

048to, you know, it's better for us to do these things and where where should we push back? Um, an example like we need three physical therapists across seven schools. What are they doing? Why do we have to provide that in the schools? Is that not something that should be done uh at home by others? Why is that, you know, on us and the and the rest of the taxpayer? So, I I have a different perspective on that. I'm prepared to be educated, so I hope hope that you can share some reason. >> Sure. um you know uh all the ills of society I certainly couldn't speak to but um what I do know is that I you know I think all educators see our role and responsibility as when they show up in the morning

049at 8:00 a.m. at the door they're our responsibility until 3:30 when they walk out that door. And so our staffing requests the programs we run are all in service to our students and meeting their needs during the school day. We certainly move um you know work closely with families and so as we're seeing students as Wendy referenced with these complex needs who are coming in we also are well aware and I want to make sure that this is clear too some of those complex needs cannot be met within the entirety of a school day. So these are students who are often receiving specialized supports outside of the school day. Some of them have extended days that go on long beyond 3:00 after hours and on the weekends and all summer long as well. Um needs

050like OT, physical therapy, those are all driven by IEPs and so our school team meets with families. Uh and based on testing that takes place, needs emerge for students. Um some of those are academic and some of those are tied to um something physical like an occupation you know occupation or physical therapy. Um and you know by law through the agreement of that IEEP we're responsible to provide those services. Uh and it has you know it's a good observation it has expanded tremendously and that's part of our um rationale for these requests uh this afternoon. And I was gonna say and I was just going to add just you know not to overly editorialize without kind of judgment many of these services OTPT are things as Jess was saying with through the IDA and federal

051statutes that schools it's been determined that schools are required to provide. So these aren't things that we think are kind of nice. These are things that the courts over the years and there have been probably school districts who've challenged and said you know we don't think we should be providing you know either OTP and through court cases and and more legislation and you know both federal and state uh you know statutes that it has been determined that these are services that we are expected to provide for our students. >> So I have to geek out a little bit and answer your question because I'm an advocate, right? Um it's a really it's a really good question and your point about like so aren't those clinical services they seem very medical there's a difference so IDA

052is one law but the overarching law right is really the American with Disabilities Act and we all fall under that and it's about access to school. So when you talk about these services for children it's is the disability impacting their ability to access their education. So for your physical therapist, right, it wouldn't be clinical services where they're right, really trying to rehabilitate the student, but the job of the physical therapist within the school building would be what do we need to do to support the ch the child to make sure that they're able to uh uh engage in recess like everybody else to their maximum extent? How do we get them to class so the physical disability isn't impacting that? And if you take that on every service lens, it's equivalent to say like making

053sure that there's a ramp so people can access the building. It's making sure those services are in place so the children can access their education. The increase that we see is puzzling to all of us. But really, you can equate that to just the advancements in the medical sciences. One of the biggest increasing populations within special education is really our students that are coming to us with disabilities that are diagnosed before they even enter school. It's called the birth to three and then we are obligated to provide them an IEP by the age of three. Because the medical sciences have advanced, we have children that we've never seen before coming to us that we are obligated to provide medical services for like G tube feedings, tracheotoies, asthma. That is all something that because we are

054obligated to make sure they can access school, we have to make sure we have the services available for them to be able to do that. So that's the need. And and just sorry piggy back like one more kind of an example just with the changing thing for uh probably up until you can help me fact check this up to you know a few years back you know we were responsible for children up from like you know to 21 years of age >> right the last three years >> and then within the last three years it was federal state federal right >> it's federal >> federal has changed it now that we're responsible for the students up to 22 >> so well it was all of federal and then Connecticut was not aligned with the rest

055of what the United States was doing and then Connecticut came back and changed the law and so we've extended up through the age of 22. Now we are obligated to support our students. >> So that's just an additional year of student you know that that we need to support through >> you know you know programming IEPs and and and so on. >> Well, thank you team. I I I feel like I understand it a lot better now. Thank you for sharing all of that with me. I have a couple of specific questions on a a couple of line items. Um with respect to the um subs uh you know we have a uh you know 25.62 percentage is a big percentage increase and I see the you know some of the rationale there. Can you

056break down that increase in terms of the contributing factors? How much of that is really pdeium driven and how much are driven by other factors? >> Yeah no that's a great question and that one's really more once again I want to kind of refer to like a little bit of just accounting practices. So in our so I'm going to go back a little bit to our teacher salary. What we do is we start off by saying okay if we had all of our teachers at this point in time and we've rolled them over and here's their salaries and and and this would be that number. But we recognize that um you know uh teachers through you know uh FMLA leaves or you know uh it takes other types of absences or things may lose some

057time and so it it it rarely is it where everyone's there all 180 days and they make their full salary. So what we do is we have what we call the teacher turnover equation and we've been applying that number which uh you know typically is about I think we've done about uh you know somewhere like two $250,000 in there and then but then what we've seen is historically in our budget we've always seen that our substitutes have always ran like high in the deficit right because we kind of and and and it all and each year it kind of worked out the teacher salaries would always end up like you know a few hundred,000 in the plus and then the substitutes would end up you know $100,000 in the red and it kind of balance

058itself out. So through conversations with the board of education they had talked about you know trying for us to adjust those numbers so that they would more accurately reflect and so for this year we moved up the teacher turnover number to three uh to 325,000 but then and but then to to with that we increased the substitute line so it more accurately reflects. So there's really theoretically there's really no difference in budgeting. It was just kind of shifting our projection for substitutes to more accurately reflect what actually happens and us adjusting the teacher salary to more accurately reflect what happens. >> Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that. um on uh on with respect to the paraprofessionals the um uh I mean it's a very tiny increase but I was reading the the account goal like to

059provide instructional support services student with respect to academic programs and this includes providing intervention services it's there's so much jargon in there I don't really understand what you're doing can you kind of maybe explain it in English please >> so we're not increasing pair professionals But the supports that we are increasing are to be able to give um more guidance to our staff for these students with their more complex needs. So we'll go back to your original question, right? Like the occupational therapist. Um that's the increase. We're increasing that occupational therapy. We we need that because our students who need to access school and supports and services, they need those services in able in order to be able to do things like um write, track, take notes, um listen, even regulate their bodies and be

060able to attend for learning. So all of the supports and services that we are asking for the request for are in those specialized areas. So speech and language, occupational therapy, nursing, um the school psychologist, that's all there. Wherever that special discipline is, we've seen the increase in the needs for that. The requests for the increase in administration are simply because with the expanding needs of the complexity of these students, we have more of our students that are in highly specialized programs and our building administrators are taxed because those children you'll have to plan for and meet for um multiple PPTs. So we do over 15 um 1,500 PPTs a year and each of just the elementary school buildings is 140 PPTs, 150 PPTs alone. By adding the extra leverage and support for specialized administration, we'll

061be able to take that pressure off of the building principles and get them back into the classrooms and managing their building and not managing these increased needs around special services. So, that's kind of the gist of the restructuring that we're trying to do. >> Great. Understand that very well. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm uh I'm all set. But and thank you all of you for putting up with my questions and all the hard work. Appreciate it. >> Yeah. >> Real quick. >> Sure. Go ahead. Just generally I think being that we've been on the board in the past I think one of the important things around this is some of these services you know folks we have to go externally these services we would go outside so some if we bring these services

062in and obviously going externally the services are obviously more expensive twice as much so I think that's something we need to note that while it's increasing people and bodies I think knowing that if we had to have resources outside And if you come back into our budget, it would be a lot more expensive. Just want to >> maybe note that. >> That's a really really important point. And some of this you'll shift and I don't know if you have the non-certified the you'll see there like the occupational therapist assistant and occupational therapy and this piggybacking from what we did last year on the budget was these were services that we had been um kind of you know outsourcing going to you know outside services for it and you know once again to reduce costs right

063because however because of the increase at it that we we've recognized that now there is enough of a need for us to hire our own person, which also brings quality of service. You know, we had it where sometimes in, you know, you'd have an OT provide service for a student, but then they wouldn't be at one of the the PPT meetings because, you know, the consistency there. And so for those, you're going, when you see offset by 320 account, you'll see a comparable reduction in the 320 account to pay for those. So those ones once again where we're working really hard to make sure that we're not just adding, we're we're offsetting >> and continuity as well. I guess constitution institutional knowledge knowing the students building relationships. So for for really the same amount and

064hopefully even potentially some savings the increase quality of care and quality of support for the students uh we we think is going to be significant. Make sense? >> Bill and Pete can >> Oh, I'm I was I'm covered. >> I was going to ask about the psychologist. Um that's part of the So that's that's another access learning thing that's going to be in somebody's IEP to meet with the psychologists. Is that correct? >> Uh typic I mean it could be psych psychologists you know a large part of their role is really become on testing um and and and doing a lot of the testing and so once again with increased needs in there. So they do have some support services that they they provide and and but you'll see a lot a large part of

065their job is really being taken up. was not again I'm not always the smartest person. So it's not like we're sending people for talk there on a regular basis. This is like we're doing uh we're figuring out what kids uh some special services as opposed to finding out somebody else we're bringing them inhouse and it's been cheaper. >> Yes. And with the increased needs for the students those testing needs are increasing. So if you want quality services and you want to make sure like also as as just part of you know maintaining our students here in district you want to make sure that you have all the services available. So mental health and counseling is a huge need right now. So if our school psychologists, if we're so lean in how we've staffed them in

066the district that all they can do is testing and they're not able to support the ch children that crop up with mental health needs or are mandated in their IEP, then we are at risk of losing them to out of district placements that can better support them. So that's there's there's multiple reasons there and needs that it it suits a district to be forward thinking to be able to support those needs. proactively rather than reactively. >> I guess my only question on the follow-up on some of the stuff because I, you know, in general I think more support is is great. Um, is if we're saying that the students with needs is about the same but the needs are greater. It's what triggers on the next budget cycle, you know, more support. Is it, you

067know, do we track um what is it? 504 is that 504 is the plan. I forget what the meeting is called, but everybody gets a meeting PBT. Thank you. Um, too many acronyms. But so is it is it like we track how many PPTs there are and once we hit a threshold, we know that somebody in the building needs support or is it like it's just where we can fit it in, we fit it in. >> So it's really the plans. So you're talking about two plans. Um, under IDA, the students have IEPs. Yeah. >> And on their IEPs, each service provider is mandated a certain number of hours that they need to see the students. So, we look at our staffing across the board and we're making sure that the hours that need to

068be promised within the IEP, our providers are able to provide. Um, in 504 plans, um, it's the same, but mostly on the counseling, much of the related services, but that would be the same. So tracking both of those plans, knowing if your staff can meet the needs, tracking case loads, how time is being allocated, and then that's how we're able to figure out, you know, if we're able to do that. I'll say the increase, so specific example of that is the increase in the request for the speech and language pathologist. We are very, very tight. Um, and so if there are any additional students that need speech and language, we would run the risk of not being able to meet those mandated requirements. And that puts us in in jeopardy. We're obligated to make sure

069we're meeting the needs. >> And on something like speech speech and speech, I need one speech and language pathology. Um, we're our person is going to run that assessment and then determine if they have needs or they're going to go out or if the parent comes in and says, "I have a note from a doctor. I know. Is it a little bit of both? >> Um, it's it's a little bit of both. Sometimes you get parents that come in with notes or come in with evaluations, but always at the end of the day, we're taking that outside information and we are evaluating it among our own providers and making a decision of where we need to go with that. >> Yeah, I yeah, I I definitely appreciate the thought that goes into it and I

070think more support for students with needs. are, you know, more dramatic needs and behaviors and stuff like that. So, I appreciate that's it for me. >> Yeah. Well, two quick ones. I know when you do the budgeting, when you're trying to predict ECS, you try, you know, you you you have a sense of what it costs at 100% reimbursement and you kind of try to, you know, tailor what you think we're going to get. What number did you use this year? Percentage reimbursement. >> Yeah, I think we did. >> That's actually a very conservative number. That's a very conservative number. Okay, that's great. Okay, and the other question is more of just a practical. Last year we were talking about being a pilot program with the high school community health partners. How's that going? >>

071It's going very well. It was going so well that we were getting outcry from our middle school student our middle school families and asking us to pilot a program down at the uh middle school. And so we're making arrangements to do that. And that is that is a partnership that is uh mental health support but of no cost to us. We are just giving space for that agency to come and help support students and families that need it and are opting for it. >> Just clear. Yeah. The school district is the school district has gone out of its way to provide a supplemental mental health services with with a reputable health care partner at no additional cost to the taxpayers. >> So well done. I'm really glad to hear that. Patty, did you have a

072followup or are you good? >> Um, I did and then I forgot it. So, >> okay. >> Sorry if I put you on the spot. >> No, that's all right. I'll I'm sure if it comes up, I can ask. >> Are we ready to move on to the 200 series? >> I think so. >> Yes. >> I remember. >> You want to hear it? Yes. >> So, Oh. Oh, you remembered your questions. >> I I did. I remember. Okay. >> Um, I know Veronica in board of ed meetings before, so who's the right person? How there's we have a fair number of students who have English learning language needs. What's that population looking like and what's how's that impacting our needs for staff? >> Um, we actually have been seeing uh in the past a

073really increasing trend. Um, and now I would say it's like flat and actually has gone down a little bit in terms of the number. So we feel very well staffed in that area at this point. So that's why you don't see any recommendation for us to increase in that area. So yeah, we feel good in that area. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. So, the 200 series is our employee health benefits uh line and the 200 series accounts for 15% of the overall budget requests. Um it covers 100% of expected paid claims, administrative costs, and employee life insurance. And you'll see a 9.59% increase which is driven by trends in the market. And then we have one digital which is our insurance broker and they meet with us annually to make recommendations about

074what we would need to uh respond to what the how the market is trending. >> Questions about the 200 series? >> Okay, I'll start at the other end. Uh are there any questions? Uh Bruce, you have any questions on the 200 series? >> Um yes. Uh just one in the uh retirement uh area. Is is this a uh defined contribution plan and is the allotments here is this for a match or something? What are they custodial costs, record keeping costs? >> What are we looking at? >> Sure. Sure. So the retirement contribution uh are employees through you know collective bargaining contracts who after you know upon retirement may be eligible for you know um to uh you know for lack of better words you know the cash ins either unused sick days or or time

075or or you know various things based on once again negotiated contracts. >> Yeah. So we've um allocate numbers based on either uh we give I think it's February 1 is when we you know put a kind of a deadline for for retirement notices and so we allocate a certain amount of money to you know to to pay out th those benefits. >> Got it. So why are we we looking at a a decline >> just from projected not as many expected retirements this year >> actuarial kind of yes things >> yes so just not as many anticipated >> um yeah retirements from there >> understood thank you >> mean anything >> no I don't pretty straightforward >> no just again this is you see the highlight The slide highlights that, you know, and Joe's here,

076he should be recognized for it as well. I mean, this is a really um an example for the state of collaboration between, you know, a town and a board of ed in terms of how they can minimize uh the financial obligation to pay benefits to town employees, taxpayers. So, I mean, something should be recognized. Just a quick comment if you um the the two trends across the state uh this year have been in employee benefits and student services. I mean so when you think about those 9.59% felt um what's the best word I could say for it? Felt fair compared to the market this year based on what many communities across the state were realizing. I know from speaking to colleagues, there's districts um I was just on a call this morning, a district um

077looking at a 30% increase in health care costs. So, by comparison, we we did quite well. >> Many of our colleagues are jealous of this number, right? You know, they're like, "How, you know, how did you get it that, you know, that low?" We know sometimes just seeing it on paper kind of has a you know this number but but relative to you know other other districts and you know other communities um this is actually you know a pretty desirable number >> question I think we're good want to move on to the 300 series. >> Sure. So services is the next budget driver um which is roughly 16% of the total budget requests and includes an overall increase of 1.28%. Um and this account reflects uh obligations for transportation contracts, electricity contracts, special services consultation

078and tuition costs for our outplace students. Um, it also is where you'll find major projects, uh, summer school programming, professional development costs and technology software systems. And I just want to highlight, as we talked before, look like on page 29, uh, you'll see there the reduction of about $254,000. And then on page 30, um, let me make sure I have the other one on. It was page 34, you'll see another reduction of 124,000. Those are the savings that we actualize to be able to help offset with the OT and the we call it the KOD, the certified occupational therapy assistant um for this. So just to kind of once again where the the balancing of it where you might see some increases in salary, now you're seeing some decreases here to offset. All right. Um,

079anything else before we open it up for questions? We're good. You want to uh >> I'm all set here, too. Thank you. >> Just a general question. I know the summer school account was kind of squirly over the last couple years. We reduced we were a number two years ago. We reduced last year. Now, kind of going back up. Is there a programming changing or programming shift at the summer school or is it just a new? I'm just curious. There's a couple big couple ESY programs. >> Yeah, it's really a collaboration between regular education and special education and so um there's some real mandated services in there and then other than that there are students who are invited in general um invited um for more like tier two, tier three kind of a support. >>

080I'm just curious. So thanks at the moment. >> No, I just don't remember what page it was on. um technology renewals and the costs I I know they go up every year. Um what what I mean this is a crystal ball type question, but so I think I think it was this line where maybe it was a different series where you're re like re eliminating some different series >> 600. Okay. >> 600 series is where there's a realignment. Okay. and and I try to keep things I use the term portfolio more than anything and keep things that are alike together. And so I did some realignment. So there's uh an increase in one uh there is an increase in 650 and a decrease in >> it's a transfer of about $25,000 but that's in in

081the 600 Yes, there was a shift and those those two particular accounts deal more with the um with uh operation um operating software and then the other with security >> 617 page 73 if you want to >> um and then also page I found the other one uh page 35 object 351 >> 351 so 351 is our core data systems and that's where we have things like power school our financial system all all of those we continue to see somewhere in the range of 5 to 7% increases on an annual basis some of them I you know we do we will do multi-year agreements to lock in uh an increased rate u power school is an example of a three-year agreement but locked in postco at 5% per year. Okay. >> So, um right now

082with our school of the state is looking at a a potential consortium. I can't guarantee you that it's going to get us any better of a of a rate at this point. Um because they kind of have the market corner. Um but I've seen the all of these go up and especially postcoid we uh there were a lot of of increases that all the way up to 8% in some cases. There was some mitigations in terms of retirement of some systems and so the the overall increase in 351 has been minimized but we still see significant annual increases with our core operational software >> and you know the inherent challenge there is you know powers school for example and I hope there's no reps here listening to me you know it's not like you can

083just go out and get a new student information system you know it has all the historical knowledge in there and So to to identify a new student information system, you know, first you want to make sure you do your research. And it's, you know, very similar kind of going through a bus company, right? Like going you can't just say, okay, tomorrow you want a new bus company, right? Like you have to like organize and do all those things. And so then you'd have to figure out, you know, you'd have to spend time like migrating and making sure all your data goes from the old system to the new system and carries over there. You have all the professional development to teach all the staff and everybody how to use it. And and so it it's

084not just for, you know, okay, now it's getting too expensive. let's go shop around and get someone else. It's a it would be a multi-year process. Not to say we wouldn't, you know, that you don't always keep looking at it and you always kick the can and sometimes you go to things and you look at, you know, various programs and so we're always looking to see what's there, but just to make sure people understand it's not just so simple. You say, "Oh, if it's gotten too expensive, go find one that's that's cheaper because it's just uh you know, I I wish it was that simple." But it's it's very uh multifaceted. >> Okay. Thank you. And one unrelated um object 420 um is this where the composting fees are paid for because this is the

085you know Sam knows this is near and dear to my heart. So I really just want to highlight that our school some of our schools have implemented composting as part of our waste >> coming right >> thank you that that was all I just wanted to highlight it >> oh served can I ask one I just don't know if it's more appropriate is to ask it but the summer school thing jock my my about the the preschool program. This is may be a terrible question. Do we make money on that or do we lose money on that? Because I know it's a it's like a pay to I'm transparently I'm in my like seventh year with two more for No, the Farmington Farmington Farmington Collaborative Preschool. >> Sure. So, I know that there's a there's

086a tuition. >> Yeah. So, so to be clear and have to make sure I get it right, uh the preschool works off an enterprise fund which is separate than our operating. >> Okay. >> So, it doesn't so it lives kind of separately in its own silo. >> Uh you know, I work with Brian Zero every year. We we kind of take a look uh you know, typically it has generated a profit, but the goal is we kind of keep that where it's you know, where we're, you know, almost like a nonprofit where it's trying to blend out at at zero. It's a great service and I think so I don't have a problem with it. I think it's great that it's profitable as well. I mean I just Is that So is that the goal

087is to make it neutral or the goal is to make >> No, no, to make it kind of like you know have it maybe just a little bit above to make sure that it's not you know that we don't have to pay for any deficit anywhere so that it sustains itself. Um and and we try to mirror it to uh kind of like the board policy with like the health health insurance reserve. you try to keep about I think it's about 25% of you know what it would cost to run the program you know to have the three or four months operating expense to you know in case you know >> co was the one >> it's funny six years later we're still saying but but you know that that kind of kind of have

088a reserve in there in case for any other situations in there u so so Brian will you know we'll continually look and say okay do we keep you know and for the most part they've been able to keep the tuition pretty flat yeah you know over over the years and things so >> yeah And is that similar to the thought process to running Excel like the after school programs? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Same same model, same enterprise account. Um, you know, and that's in the other part too is when they do have a little bit of money sometimes, you know, if if uh, you know, West District needs a little bit of, you know, uh, extra mulch at the playground or something like that, sometimes we'll say, "Hey, Brian, you know, Excel and preschool use

089this thing." And so they'll they'll pay for some of that to to to kind of help out sometimes. So, >> yeah, they're good programs. So I and my last question would be so because I know that they to get in it's hard to get into lots of preschools. Anybody that's got a good preschool it's hard to get in there but so it's done by a lottery and I know it's three times we were like biting our nails to get you know um but so if we take so if if a student with special services wins that lottery, right? Then then we do then we open up to help you know. Yeah. I want to hand it to Wie because it's it's it's a little more complicated than that. Okay. >> It's a different process. >>

090Okay. So, um, a preschool student, if they have special needs, we're obligated to provide the services that are mandated in their IEP. Those special needs might be speech and language services and not be needed all day, we would provide those services. Um, if they require services that require like a full day program, we would partner with Brian to provide those services. Um, if they want services that are outside of their IEP and more, then they would have to enter the lottery for that. Gotcha. >> So it it just every it's nuanced depending on the needs of the child. >> Okay. >> So you might hear the term collaborative preschool which would be those preschool classes that um are serving the needs of our students. >> Yeah. I think it's great. >> Yep. And then you'll

091see but you will see too we do have classrooms full of students who have won the lottery. I guess we don't actually call it a lotteryization process. >> Yes. I got you. >> Um, and just, you know, while we're while we're speaking of preschool, that is actually the one area we on a regular basis get a request from the community to your point about how competitive it is. Uh, we just don't have the space to open additional classrooms, but we could easily fill um additional preschool classrooms if we had the space. >> Yeah. And I think just for what it's worth, I mean, the program has run well and uh the transition to Westwoods has gone well and nice playground there now and they're doing a good job. So, >> right. Yeah. >> Yeah. And

092I was gonna say that's a perfect example that came out of that that playscape at Westwoods that was put in there was used through the enterprise funds from there. So there wasn't any uh you know operating budget >> that was used to pay for that program. >> Poor Brian's area. They were like two days late on that for the first day of school. He was you know but he got it done. >> So a quick question I had was on professional education services. Obviously that's gone down, right? And part of that is the decrease through the shifting of the funding and is that then tied to your kind of certified staffing overview as far as what what has occurred? >> Yes. >> I'm assuming there you know you have to contract with consultants to provide

093some of this stuff but now you don't. >> Yeah. So exactly. So when we talked about in the salary lines and you once again saw the OT and the KOD and those positions to pay for that was was is decreasing our need from consultation services and and and contracting out with them. There probably may be some times where we'll still need to utilize you know those services but obviously it'll decrease tremendously uh by having our own internal staff. Got it. >> Okay. And then the other thing was on building repair contracts and then obviously on that a lot of the maintenance program um you know from 2425 it's increased now if you take the 2627 request to 38150 you know it's almost you know it's it's it's you know over double and obviously the Farmington

094High School coming online and warranty contracts are where are we in that Sam as far as like the first year a number of things dropped off now now certain equipment has longer you know vantage points so >> yeah so so that's exactly everybody after we zeroed out all those accounts we didn't need while construction in the process of moving into that first year which um which mainten I've been working on say a building management system contract for somebody unit this year we brought on an elevator contract. So we're looking at what is pending in terms of warranties anticipating those those contracts coming back. Um the other thing to remember is we have a lot more systems at the new high school. So, so where we have a BMS contract before years ago, um this is

095significantly more because we have much more system. So, it's >> so in the business proprietary versus kind of a universal thing is are a lot of these systems proprietary and then we're kind of locked in with how we have to hire consultants or maintenance contracts. So some of that we have uh we did specify proprietary but we sat down with the engineer Matt and I both discuss which which items we wanted about a lot of it open short the short answer is probably in the short term when you have a contract that worked on piece of equipment piece of equipment has done that issues. We'll probably stick with that vendor for some rooftop. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think and and then we if if these HVAC projects move ahead too these other ones, you

096know, then there's there's a whole portfolio of HVAC equipment. So >> yeah. >> Okay, you've answered my question. Thank you. >> Mine should be pretty simple. Um I just noticed under the for there's um acoustic panels for the art room for $32,000. For what purpose do we need acoustic sound >> in the art room? >> Those are sound dampening, right? Yeah. >> Acoustic panels. >> It's an open ceiling. >> Um metal uh you have a metal roof structure above you so sound does echo through. It's pretty loud. So this project I mean it's visually appealing as well but it really is about trying to soften the sound so that we don't have >> so we've had that for a while then right >> this would be new acoustic panels >> so we've had acoustic panels

097in the past and >> in other places yeah you'll find them across the district in various location >> but just in that school I'm just asking is that is something new or is this being replaced? >> In this room that we're budgeting for, this is >> okay. >> We'll have one more set. >> But this one's a part of a phased project, right? We've already, you know, we've already replaced a few uh a double couple classrooms and I think after we budget for this one, we have one more. Um so yeah, so part of kind of like a you know major projects kind of >> just kind of and then like in terms of painting like do you outsource the painting? I see like there's painting in classrooms and stairwells for like $30,000. >> Um

098typically we'll do u smaller projects throughout the summer painting. What this is is it's a larger >> and then my last and final question because it's my favorite is the buses. >> So I see a little 3.4% 1% is this our final year in this contract and we're renegotiating for >> I think this is we're in year 205 >> 205. So this >> we're going up. All right. Thought we were renegotiating. Are you felt like we just >> I thought we were actually contract. >> Yeah. So the contract is actually a fiveyear increase each year. So we're actually below >> we're in year three of the fiveyear. >> We This will be year three of the but so what we've been able to do is so we've been able to save a little bit in

099regular transportation. we've been able to work with specialty to find some efficiencies um on some uh you know fewer runs than that need to occur um you know that kind of need to occur to kind of meet all the needs. So we've been able to save there. Where we've seen some additional money is once again special services to I know she she was giving me that look when I point out okay the increase is due to special service needs. >> Having said that you'll see we do apply we do apply revenue because sometimes that specialized transportation will qualify for excess cost and then we will offset some of the transportation cost. So >> you know there's one line for transportation but it really kind of has two lines in it. The regular transportation and the

100specialized transportation. the regular regular transportation you see a a good decrease. Sorry, Wendy. And then as for the specialized transportation, you'll see you know the the kind of but we able to keep it below the 5% which would have been the contract. So we feel pretty good about that. And we haven't been able to do any ride share with like Avon or or special >> we we we have some you know I mean we >> I know it's difficult with >> we we keep looking for for other opportunities but you know once again it is a lot of different you know students different times you know the the in there but but we continue to look for those types of efficiencies. >> Great. That's all I have. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh just

101one quick one. I uh I understand we talked about our IT expenses increasing but commensurate with that we should be seeing uh additional services from them you know they're enhancing their products are we seeing you know productivity gains and tools or AI tools and you know what do you see coming in the future we we do see we do see improvements I mean specifically around P school they've acquired a lot of other companies as well so they've added services that's part of their justification for their increases Um, and a lot, you know, again, a lot of this comes down to the the uh contractual and uh some of these being a lot of our core services. As Dan pointed out, it's it's hard to move away completely or quickly from these. Um, but uh in

102in across the board, we also do uh regular reviews. Big systems like the finance system and power scope, we're constantly trying to get better better rates of increase. some of our smaller systems. Right now, we're doing uh an extensive review of our HR on boarding uh time clock and um we'll call it record system that is basically the forms that you fill out um to see if we could find any savings and also get some uh some efficiencies and in terms of the process itself. Um but in general the uh the big the the biggest increases that we see are on our core systems. >> Understood. Thank you. >> Okay, Patty. >> Um at 622 electricity. At the bottom it says it's a supply purchase agreement taking effect December 1, 2024. Says it's a one-year

103contract. And I'm just trying to understand Um >> on page 65. >> Oh, so yeah, that was the uh >> the purchasing agreement that we have to kind of lock in >> the the rates for for electricity. >> So that Sam has >> That's also >> Yes. >> All right. So it says so when it says a full ye it says to lock in a full year of the new agreement. So it's being locked in for three years or am I >> Well, this is the third year of that locked in rate. >> Okay. >> You you understand what I'm asking? Thank you. >> So the end date on that was in December. >> So apologize that wasn't edited for this year. So for last year when we presented this um we had a year

104of the old so this this year it's a full year. So should that have been 25 12120? >> It's still the year of the agreement. >> Okay. So that's the year of the agreement and thank you. >> It's a really good rate. >> Okay. >> It is just that accounted for in this. Thank you. Anything else before we move on to the the 400 series? >> So the 400 series is our supplies uh accounts for roughly 3% of the overall budget request. Uh the 4.2 uh the 2.42% 42% recommended increase that covers all of our instructional materials necessary to support the curriculum as well as supplies utilized by our maintenance and custodial staff. Uh and finally, this is the account that covers facility rentals for programs like swimming and ice hockey 400 series. >> You

105have any question? >> I do not. No. >> Nope. Uh yes. Uh page 76, item 641, the um math text, the curriculum. Is this the like we started at the elementaryaries and now we're up to the six started with the younger kids, right? You brought it up. >> Uh the think >> Yeah. So that's for think math and there just workbooks that we need every year, but that program is complete all the way through grade five. And we're actually going to be in a program review to look at what we want to do for grades six, seven, and eight really next year. But right now, that's just to sort of replenish the materials that we need. And I don't think it has. We also have an online platform. Is that in technology or is that

106in this one? That's in technology. >> The potential the projected cost of >> Thank you. Nothing else. I'm good. >> I'm good. Thank you. >> Bruce, anything? >> No, I'm good. >> All right. Shall we move on to >> All right. Yep. 500 series is our equipment. Uh represents roughly 1% of our overall budget requests. Um this is uh provides for facility and technology equipment requests and the 16.6% 6% increase is driven by the rising costs of technology hardware such as Chromebooks which are part of our life cycle management process. Questions for the 500 series? >> Well, usually Wendy's the one we blame. This time it's all on mathend this one. >> Why do you keep when you can take a break? >> All right. Why don't we start down with you, Bruce, if you

107have anything? Um, I' I'd like to understand the whole uh Chromebook thing more in terms of um who are we providing them to and uh um you know what our costs per unit are and um what's driving uh that budget item. >> Sure. So, uh our Chromebook program is a onetoone pro Chromebook program in grades 3 through 12. Uh those students bring their Chromebooks home with them uh so they can help facilitate learning at home as well. In grades K through two, we have devices and carts in the classroom. So, they do not take them home. Maybe grade two every once in a while if there's a special project, but in general, they stay in the classroom um to support learning in the classroom. Um it is still we still have the number of devices

108in that cart as corresponding to the number of students in the classroom. We also maintain a stock of spares for uh for swaps for repairs breaks uh supply. Um the biggest driver at this refreshing we also we refresh Chromebooks sorry every other refresh we refresh Chromebooks at uh the end of grade eight. So students entering their ninth grade year have a new device to carry them through high school. We do the same thing. We used to do it at grade five. When we switched to the cart model at grades K through two, we shift a little bit to grade three and then there's like a grade five, six, depending on where we are in terms of the model of the Chromebook and what may have presented problems because every year manufacturers are uh releasing a

109new model of device. Um, so there's a little bit of a wiggle room there in that grade five, grade six, grade three. And then we also have to continue to every year replace devices at the K through2 level as well. So on average somewhere in the neighborhood of 900 to a,000 Chromebooks purchased each year to to replace those that are aging out and keep us stock on hand for repairs. Unfortunately, we've seen a huge increase in the cost of Chromebooks. Um just between last year and this year the cost has gone from uh it was 288 is what I spent on on an individual device last year. Then you have to add on a management license the case to protect it and there's a little bit of a service fee. We use a company that

110assists us in preparing the device enrolling it in some cases because we don't have the space to receive them and do that on our own. They also take care of the disposal of all the boxes. It's a nonal fee for that. The cost of the device alone last year at this time was $288. I just received a quote to purchase the what we need at the end of this year and it's $371 for the device. the cost at this point cost of Chromebooks are driven by it's what's driving is the same thing that's driving any other product with computer chip in it or runs on memory. It's the market. Um uh you know we're seeing this across the board with any technology device the uh chip costs manufacturing of those devices has gone through the

111roof. We have there's there's times where I've tried to get quotes for units and there's a limit now is only offering quotes for two weeks. They'll only have for two weeks based on what their supply is. So the the increase that you see was what I projected back in December November. Um it's obviously more. I mean the reality is it's more based on the numbers I have today. But I always I I go with what I think it's going to be and then I work with the number at that point to do what we can. We do all of our repairs in house. I work with a company um out of Indiana. They um buy our parts from them. Um at the end of the year after we've collected things back, we go through all

112of the collects. We grade them ourselves to determine is it worth repairing it ourselves, putting it back on the shelf or is it not? Anything that we're not repairing that still has some value, we package up, we ship back to them, and they'll give us anywhere from a dollar to $5 per device that I then take as credit because they give me an additional 10% and I use it to buy parts from them to continue to repair. >> Thank you. That's helpful. Appreciate it. Maybe. >> I love Chromebooks. Um, now just real quick, Matt, is there any other device brand outside of Chromebook and why we I mean I know Chromebook because >> like Dell or Microsoft like I just >> Chromebook is a a general term. Chromebooks is like tissue and you can get

113multiple multiple companies make tissues. Um the Dell makes Chromebooks, HP makes Chromebooks. It it's bu based on the Chrome OS developed by Google. Um there are other devices that other districts might choose to use. Uh iPads, uh straight up laptops, uh you know, Windows laptops, Apple laptops, those devices are more expensive. number one >> um partner advantage >> and um laptops in particular laptops and iPads I'd say are are are more prone to damage um it just they're not built as rugged as >> so we're using the most effective one >> like we've standardized on the Dell model Chromebook we we played around over the number a number of years with other models other manufacturers and they just don't hold up to our student. >> That was it was more my question like are we

114using other brand so or looked at other brands from a cost perspective >> and and there's a constant chatter across the state the technology around the tech directors around payments like what are people buying this year? What have you looked at? um what stands up to you know for a number of years there was an issue with kids popping their feet off the keyboard >> and you know what are people looking at to for models that are make it more difficult for the students to do that >> right >> um and and so the mod the Dell models that we have settled on are are much more stand up for those things >> and are other school districts still providing them for every student >> because I students reason here for testing and what students

115have other >> about to just say >> yeah I mean it's done for testing purposes but most students probably have especially in the higher grades have their own >> yeah so just I just wanted to remind that we have to test in grades three four five six seven eight those and then also 11 um so every really all the grades that you're talking about >> because SAT the SAT >> right are also doing those online and now the AP everything has moved on to those and really even K12 because we're talking about the Dibbles testing and all of that that has now moved online. So, in some ways too though that has saved a lot of work and time because we're not doing the constant moving the papers and all of that that it's all

116on on that. But I know that it helps you in terms of the Chrome book. You're able to do a standalone um application on the outside that doesn't go out to the internet while the students are taking the testing. We discovered an update yesterday that the SBA NSS test that's coming up. They they put out a new we'll call it a new app that students would use to to access that test. Um that update just came out in the last couple of weeks, pulled up the instructions, went through the Google admin, did what the instructions said, and within an hour every student had that instead of having to go touch every single one. So the difference with laptops for example without some other type of expensive management system you would have to or even students

117bring their own have to touch each individual device. >> Okay, thank you. >> Yeah, Chromebooks was one of the questions and obviously that's been talked about completely. The other thing I I just saw here was the Farmington High School on equipment. some of the stuff there is is are we just outfitting the new space as far as like you know we're buying a jet table top skull saw tabletop sander. Are these things that we're adding to space that we now have that we maybe didn't have before? >> A lot of that stuff is program driven and it's in a lot of cases with the high school there was a lot of existing equipment that was brought over and not covered under the cost of the actual project. Right. And so there's still the ongoing replacement

118of equipment. >> Okay. So a number a piece of equipment came over. Now as things just age out, boom, you keep >> still replacing. >> Okay. Great. Okay. That I mean that seems seems pretty logical. >> All right. Thank you, Penny. >> No, thank you. Just quickly back off u Dave's um our because I know one of the things with the high school was we were going to open up back up that culinary program and some of the um like teched uh driven stuff was going to get a lot more runway to for more students. Are we finding that the costs for those programs are what we expected? Are they dramatically more? Are they I because I know that was one of the things before where um supplies in that area are going to be

119>> yeah I don't I couldn't ask yeah I couldn't answer it specifically with any all I know is I can say from a qualitative standpoint like I haven't heard from Farmington High School saying hey we don't have enough to cover for our you know what we budgeted for as far as either supplies whether it's you know arts techn culinary arts so whatever we've been budgeting seems seems to be there otherwise typically I would imagine Russ would be coming to me and saying I need more money for so I haven't heard that yet so I'll give you a I can give you a qualitative answer on that that it seems to be on target >> it was one of the big sales pitch things I just want to make sure that we're able to continue the

120commitment programs >> there is an area where they're leveraging some grant funding so we just reviewed a perkins grant request for a number of items for both the techn okay to >> to enhance the program Cool. Thank you. >> All right, we're all set. We can move on to 600. >> Okay, so finally the 600 series, which accounts for again just about a little less than 1% of our total budget requests. Um, this provides for memberships of professional organizations that support staff, school, and district improvement efforts. Uh this also includes the town of Farmington's negotiated liability, umbrella, and motor vehicle insurance for the district. Uh you'll notice an overall reduction of 3 and a half% um and that is in large part thanks to savings of roughly 15,000 um in insurance coverage. Questions for the

121600 series? >> It's our end to start. I have none. >> No. Oh, good. >> Thank you very much. Is there anything else that we need to discuss? >> Let's do some capital questions. >> Do you have a capital question? >> I do. I mean, it's already kind of been presented. Um but just to just Okay. Um in your I don't have I got see if I can find it. In your capital outy years Sam you have indicated in the budget year of 2728 I think it's a million dollars in structural architectural um and then two million for the Union cafe. Did I read that right? >> You two million for the structure. >> I'm sorry. Okay back. Okay. My bad. All right. You understand what I'm saying? So okay that that's so that's anticipated

122to be saw in next year's budget cycle in a year where we are going to be re-evaluating uh across you know thousand setting you know how we calculate so can you talk I I I mean I I I don't really talk about this year's budget I get it but I'm very concerned and thought in in about that so can you talk about what those things are and and Um, so I can I can speak the the union um project is the one we're we're currently in conceptual design right now. We're going to come up with three different options for for what that what that is. The 1.2 is an estimate for kind of the mid-range option where we'd look to extend the cafeteria and media center. Um, we put in a 1.2 as as a

123placeholder based on square footage. Um, the 2 million should should have been in the 2829. I I don't believe we were looking to do the the two million for the next structural architectural project. The next structural architectural project we were looking to do was either Westwood's floors or uh window projects. >> Okay. >> Um am I correct in that? A number of years ago there was an attack regarding capital and um some of it driven by the the prior report some driven by the other assessments and we divided into these buckets and the number that was used as an average per year was the two billion. So that's why that placeholder is there in the you see that consistent and that two million could get moved around based on the project but it's there as

124kind of a hey we're projecting on an average every year $2 million in investment in structural architectural projects. Well, we I can't remember. I was thinking about that. I was going through it because I know we talked about what what what could be bonded, you know, in other words, as opposed to putting in capital. And so, I guess that's the question, right? What you guys decide you want to do, then we have the conversation in that budget year indicating what you know, the next round, do we want to capitalize it or do we want to go bond on it, you know, depending on the nature of the project, right? You know, okay. The the other thing we try to do is we look at the outy years is we try and even out the capital

125requests throughout the years. So that's where you where you see a $2 million placeholder in that structure architectural. We're also we're trying to even out the capital request so you don't see 15 million one year and two million the next year. Um so we're trying to even it out as we go along. >> And then my other question as it relates to capital and the HVAC project. Um couple things. We heard in public comment last night that um the the anticipated the state standard for classroom temperatures is 82 degrees. I'm sorry, no for the ambient temperature, outdoor temperatures 82 degrees. That's not how it's being looked at though, right? The state wants to know what in in classroom temperatures are, right? >> Ambient temperature out >> outdoor temperature. So, so there's the the what I

126have seen is a range um from 68 to 74 degrees talked about as a range that they would look to have for uh for classroom outdoor >> occupied temperatures indoors. >> Okay. >> That has not been instituted yet. >> Um but >> you know in the future you could see a a push to have uh some sort of temperature range within the classroom. So the notion of 82 degrees being some sort of defining benchmark of whether or not an air conditioner is appropriate uh in the eyes of the state of Connecticut that is just comes from the standard we're using is ashray for everything we're designing. So that's um we'll be well below the 82 degrees with what we're using for the standards for the air conditioning that we're putting into the classrooms. um where

127where it will get you know if they institute something that says 82 degrees in any occupied I'm sorry >> it's occupied space though that's what's the most important thing is the the key is it's not 82 degrees outside it's 82 degrees in other words if we're using the number 82 degrees it would be 82 degrees in the classroom >> yes right >> you could have it be 82 degrees outside right >> and if you know the I guess it maybe be the you know the east or the west, you know, depending on the day, the time of day, the west facing classrooms where you got the sun kind of in. It is a lot warmer in that classroom right across the hall where now they got shade in there and now that classroom temperature, you

128know, might be, you know, might be 74 degrees, but then it might be 79 degrees or 80 degrees right across the hall. So, you know, the outdoor temperature, I mean, obviously, is there some relation to what the inside temperature would be, but but it's not a standard that we would, you know, it doesn't help uh when you have 22 fourth graders who just came back in from recess, ton of heat. Yep. >> Um in in a in a you know, certain various classrooms. >> Well, I mean, I can speak from my own children's experience at Union School. You know, there were there were days, you know, my daughter was in fourth grade and it was 100 degrees in the the third floor classroom. So, and they had the lights out and they're all laying on

129the floor. Yeah. And that and that that's that's not an uncommon occurrence at, you know, at that school. >> Um, yeah, because and I know it kind of sounds like a weird question. You weren't here last night, Sam, but someone had someone raised an objection about the idea of whether or not it's the HVAC project is pursuit because town of Farmington only has certain, you know, very few days where it's 80 degrees outside in May and September. And I just wanted to make sure that the public that might be watching at home, that's not a real number. That's not that's not a number. That 82 degree number is not a number that we should use for any kind of point of reference in determining whether or not the HVAC project is an appropriate and worthy

130investment of taxpayer funds. >> It also should be noted that this year school gets out around June 16th. >> Absolutely right. >> And and that's, you know, that's a a good period of time of of learning. >> For sure. For sure. Absolutely. >> Started in August. >> And then lastly, I'm not a math major. Um the project is $14.3 million. We get 31% back. My back of the envelope math was about So the total cost to the taxpayer is about $9 million. >> Yeah. You know, I think somewhere, you know, $910 million, >> right? >> Yes. >> Which was reduced from the $16 million that we thought it might have been if we paid for it ourselves four years ago. >> Correct. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. Well, they're talking about using the grant,

131but now we have gone to Right. Right. We're still Right. Yeah. >> So, I just want to make sure that was also on the correct debate. Thank you. >> I'll just add I'm sorry. Um just add as well um obviously air conditioning is an important part of this project, but the um the other part of that and approximately half the cost is bringing in filtered fresh air into all the buildings which which gives us air exchanges which bring down CO uh CO2 levels within the classroom as well. So, um that's a significant portion of the project as well. >> Thank you. Well, Sam, that was, you know, my question and and some of that came from mandates too, uh, like that this during during after COVID, whatever time period was. >> Okay. >> Well, I

132don't have a question on HVAC now. Thank you. >> We are on it. >> Did you have a question? No, sir. >> Any questions down at this end on capital? >> All set. >> I'm good. Thank you. >> Yeah. I know you talked about were you looking at strategies of doing two at the same time? You kind of alluded to it a little bit last night. >> Well, we're we're still looking at that. Um, you know, every once in a while I I I say four and Sam and Matt give me a you know, death stares at it at it. So, you know, we're we're yeah, we are looking at the options to see if we can even bring that down even more >> um by by doing multiple projects in a given year. what

133they presented to us in terms of timelines and they could feasibly get done and then we've got to account because whenever they tell us they'll be done >> account for that >> and there's and there's programming implications you know >> I'm sure there's a lot of moving parts but yes and unless it makes sense but hopefully you're studying it and if you rule it out you >> yeah absolutely >> that's >> any other questions before we move on. >> Not on Catholic >> any questions before say thank you very much. >> I have one. Yes. Um, so we've heard comment over the past multiple meetings about the enrollment numbers this earlier today in terms of where the pushup numbers versus the actual numbers versus the projected numbers and that as a result there's ultimately looking

134like there's excess funds right now in the budget because of the estimate for the students. Um, and I know that by state statute in the past couple of years, boards of ed now have a non-lapsing fund account for a percentage of your budget. >> Um, and I I I'd like to hear from you how I mean I think it's about $200,000ish is projected. And I want to be clear that I understand this is projected and you know, you never know what's going to happen. And when we had the old building, I remember having to approve a roof replace, like a roof repair. >> Raining in the classroom. >> Yes. >> Um, and I'm glad we don't have to deal with that now. But I I in terms of um how much money is currently in

135the non-lapsing account? Is the $200,000 about right on projected? And then do you have an idea of what the board of ed needs? how you would like to what what your dream what your situation would be what your options are. >> So there's well there's two pieces of that. First is what's currently in the non-lapsing account which was established last year. Um and so those accounts are put in place. Uh we have a policy that guides that and it's pretty clear that right that's for unanticipated expenditures right we look at it through the lens of like protecting the budget. Um, and I like to say that um, in the absence of a non-lapsing account, what happens in any given year, you referenced a roof, you know, being replaced. We have a boiler that goes out.

136Um, but there's also other things that can come up that we weren't anticipating. Um, you know, we talked this evening a little bit about special um, education costs. We can have an unex unexpected outplacement costs which can range um, you know, well over $100,000. And so, um, we have the existing account and then, uh, when what you're referencing with the $200,000 is we had three teachers that we did not fill those positions, um, you know, based on enrollment needs, which again, you know, we're always trying to do responsible budgeting and if the need isn't there, we're not going to fill those positions. And so, you know, where we sit today th that um, you know, money is still there in the general, you know, operating budget for the 2526 school year. Got to get my

137school years right. Make sure when you're talking about budgets, but um, and so we would be on, you know, on track if all things go according to plan and there's no roof replacements or boiler explosions to, um, you know, have that money remaining at the end of this school year. you know, when you ask about the dream, you know, really it's less about a specific dollar amount, although we we, you know, I could give you one. Um, it's really about again that protecting the budget in any current year and into the future. And so what what we think about is the unanticipated um special education costs, right? Things that might come up. Um we think about staffing shifts. You know, what we tend to do is put staff in place and uh you know, we

138believe we can look at that from a different lens. If we know we have money in the non-lapsing account, that protects us should we see major enrollment fluctuations. I spoke to a personal experience where one August we had 202 graders move in and we needed a second grade teacher. That was not in the budget. Um and what's not seen when that happens is that money still comes from somewhere. So, if uh the year that you had that happen with the roof, whatever, I don't know the exact amount of money wasn't here, but when that comes out, what happens when we talk about protecting the budget, that money comes from things that were supposed to be in the budget to benefit our students. And so, the dream would be to have um that account in place

139that would provide that both now and in the future for the students of Farmington. Um, we're allowed by statute to have 2% in that. Um, and I I think if we were to land somewhere closer to like even a half a percent of our operating budget, that would uh provide that protection. Um, as I said, both now and into the future. >> When um I just want to clarify, $100,000 for outplacement. You're you're meaning per student, right? >> Per student, correct? Yes. So, um, we would we would look at, um, wanting that fund to cover, uh, you know, a couple of staff members that are unexpected changes. And why I say that is because, again, that that f we don't believe that that account every year will see a big windfall. We had some unique

140experiences over the last couple of school years. Um, but if you add a staff member at any time, that amount, you know, you need to account for that into the future. there's an impact on future budgets. In terms of outplacements, uh, you know, Wendy could probably speak to this more eloquently than I could, but a year could go by where you could have multiple outplace uh, students who we have an unanticipated outplacement. So, if we felt if there was coverage for about two in that account and then when you go to that um 4 and a half% pure pupil, it ends up to be about $93,000. How do I do with that? Pretty good. It's between 95 95 and $110,000 is the range of what you would use for an average placement for one school.

141>> And then what we are our our cost as a district would be about $93,000 in terms of >> or four and a half times we have to pay that out before we get any reimbursement back. >> So if you if we accounted for two outplacements, two unanticipated staff members again both you know in now and in the future. Um and then also a major project, right? That's another thing we had a conversation about. You used a roof. We talked about um using examples of some of the major mechanicals that we don't currently have in capital, but at any time um if you've experienced, you know, this yourself, you have an item that isn't at the end of life, but it goes and the cost to repair is just not um realistic at that time.

142So, uh, with those four or five items in place. And then the last thing which is, you know, harder to put a number on is the unfunded state mandate mandates that we frequently talk about as a, you know, public school organization, something that comes down from the state. Um, we're hearing now as an example of, um, you know, something that may come down regarding homeschooling. So wanting districts to do more to monitor families that choose to homeschool their children and you know we don't know what we don't know as we sit here today to put this budget together what kind of software staffing oversight we might need to provide. So that's where that non-lapsing fund having it be funded at an appropriate level where we feel like we can maintain and overcome those hurdles um

143for many years to come. And if I could just add just sort of to give like a historical context uh last year when we had the extra money to put in the non-lapsing account, it wasn't it wasn't a notion of, you know, we kind of, you know, had too much money in our budget or budget too much. It was that excess cost that we talked about that the state gives at a certain formula. >> We had budgeted because we knew the state doesn't typically give us what they kind of promise us every year. So, we budgeted very conservatively at at a number. When the state came out with their number in December, it was I think 59% when many districts plan on getting at least 65, if not 70%. So, towns were up in arms

144about it. The legislature la last year put in $40 million in the spring to help with those districts. at that point because we did 60 and it was 59 we were able to kind of make adjustments for that. So the state gave Farmington you know it was approximately I think like $300,000 a little more than that in there. So instead of just you know getting that money in I don't know it was like April or May and just trying to kind of you know what to do with it we wanted to be thoughtful on it and we put in the non-lapsing account. So that was kind of a unique situation in this year. Same with the the the context of it is we had the redistricting across the elementary schools. We got updated enrollment projections

145because we weren't sure once again how numbers were going to split and then the amount of sections we had. So we budgeted for that as we monitored as we do because we want to be good fiscal stewards of the town. >> Come April May, we recognize that okay these numbers aren't uh uh coming to so we wouldn't need to hire. We held off on hiring those. And so that's why that money is in the budget, you know, currently and projected to be there because we didn't just say, "Okay, we have the money. Let's go hire the teachers and, you know, and and and the students will come." We held off on that. You know, Veronica and I, we've kind of looked almost on a daily basis what those numbers were and were able to not

146need as many. And so we wanted to make sure we didn't utilize that utilize those funds. um related um enrollment projections for next year. Did we change how you were calculating them from the year before? >> So what we've so yes and no. So last year because of the redistricting we went out for a consultant to get like like a new up-to-date numbers right where we kind of do that. Typically we will utilize the pushup numbers and then another uh concept which is called retention ratio which is you look at historically what happens at each grade level. And so you know from first grade to second grade there's usually this percentage that impacts it first to second grade. And so you have a lot of this historical data. So you have retention ratio and then

147you have push-up numbers which is just >> you know there's a a hundred first graders so next year there's going to be a hundred second graders and you just kind of do it that way. Kindergarten's always tricky because you're really kind of using utilizing births that as reported to town hall and so that's you know kind of that becomes always a little bit harder to see because you know especially now there's a lot of new developments coming in people moving in so they might not have been born in Farmington and so those numbers are are harder to pinpoint um with the kindergarten numbers so so last year we did we had the the the slam consultant report we had to use the retention ratio and we had the push-up numbers U those were the three

148this year we didn't use a consult we're just relying on mostly the retention ratio because we found that that one tends to be the most accurate over you know year-over-year obviously with some fluctuation but year-over-year retention ratio seems to be the most consistent so we're we're we're going back to that >> okay I don't have any other questions >> thanks piggybacking on's question I guess the the elephant in the room is is is Um, and I'm curious your thoughts, right? This is more of a conversation than asking you a question. >> So, we're talking about potentially around $500,000 sitting in a non-lapsing account come June 30th school year. Um, and knowing that next year's a reevaluation here that there's going to be significant pressures on both the board and town budget, what is the appetite,

149thought process or consideration to say, okay, we'll leave the money in there and then we could think about deploying that for, you know, capital expenditures or something like that next year that would reduce any potential need for an increase next fiscal year. >> Sure. Um I think that'd be a very fair um ask for us as a board of ed. And you know again I if we were to fund that account with um again what our justification would be because what would be important to us is that there's a shared understanding between the board and the council that we're not just picking random numbers out. Right? Um, and we just, you know, here's, you know, we want to be able to say in good faith to you that we see that this amount in here

150is tied to, you know, unassigned teachers, outplacement costs, right? And a major mechanical, right? So, you know, that that's the rationale backing up that funding, right? Um, for us based on our counts, you know, that that floats right around $400,000. So again, as we sit here today, there would certainly be probably somewhere in the ballpark of about $135,000 that um yeah, you know, partnership with the council, you could think about, you know, offsetting the cost of capital for sure. And that would be our preference would be to go the route of capital, right? >> Um >> because you're not increasing the operating expenditures that you committed. >> Correct. we're not impacting our operating budget for the future, which again when we think about protecting budgets, we're we're protecting those budgets on behalf of the students

151of Farmington, but also to be fiscally responsible for future budgets, knowing what that impact will be if we add that to our operating costs. >> Thanks, Jess. >> Are there any other questions generally? >> Good. >> All right. Thanks questions and thank you for the answers. Appreciate everything. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it. >> Believe Kathy, is this Are you gonna come up? >> All right. We're going to take a recess before we get into the tax budget. >> All right. Welcome back everybody. We're going to continue with our budget discussions with town and I'm going to introduce Kathy Wanssky. Okay. So, um what we typically would do is that we'll start with the general administration and it's budget pages 1 through 26. It's the first thing in the

152tab. Um Brian, would you want to do it how we normally do it is that I do an overview of the uh general administration accounts. Okay. We can go through it. People ask questions and then we usually ta the whole section. Um, if for some reason there's a page or something we want to come back to, we will make a note of that and we'll come back to it at the end and we don't go page by page. We go section by section. Does that make sense? And would you like to continue that way? >> Let's do that. >> Okay. >> The general administration. >> So the general administration, it's uh budget pages 1 through 26. The general administration group of accounts includes expenses for the administrative branch of town government and funding for nonprofit

153organizations that the town supports. Some just different things and I'm just going off the budget notes is that our personnel costs have increased uh due to the current job market, increased contractual obligations um in an effort to attract and retain employees. uh the registar voters account has increased for the uh the governor's election in November and reflects salary levels for the registars. Um just so we know we can show you in the budget book but personnel services accounts for people that are new um to the budget process in the personnel services when we don't have contracts that are settled we put a lump sum in that account and then when the contracts get settled they get moved into the individual account. We have all our contracts settled right now. So, we don't have to have

154the money in that personnel account. It's all in the different accounts except for the non-unionized employees and some various other things. The public buildings account has increased as it's only four months of exper um of expenditures in this year's budget and we have to now maintain the new town hall and this town hall. Um and the contributions just to the library are 3% increase. We had a pretty good year with our utilities overall. It was a 4.69% increase. Uh the proposed budget request for this group of accounts increased 2.96% overall. So again, page uh 1 through 26. I'd be more than happy to answer try to answer questions on these pages. >> Right. >> I think not page 27. Let me see. Hold on. Yes, 27. Yep. Thank you. >> All right. Keith, would you

155like to get us started? >> Yeah. Um I just have one question on utilities and it is something that we can't answer at this point yet but um when we so probate I know is like a few topics that proate so when like utilities for that them being in this building or when we bring in hope partner something like that is there a thought of we just kind of continue just to put the bill for the entire building or does anything >> I Probate, I think we can talk about them first. I would consider them separate from the other group. So probate, my understanding, and Joe Crepty, if I'm wrong, we're required by law to house them. >> And so they we've housed them and that's they and then we have to pay a certain

156amount in the budget for them. And I think it's like $20,000 a year. So we're required to do that. I don't know if there's some sort of thing that has says that they think that means that utilities and everything is included in that. I think the other groups we have, you know, the only other group I can really speak about is like the services uh hope that that's located in the senior center. We have never charged them for any portion of the utilities or anything like that. A decision has never been made about whether we would do that. If people came into this building, you could do that. You know, >> something I'm necessarily advocating. Yeah, just curious where that is because obviously the operation build excuse me I mean especially when you look at

157like what house and seems like a wonderful idea but we know once we rehab anything in there we talked about a really really large cost. I just it's not necessarily a question for this specific budget, but I think before we get there, we're going to have to have conversations about how we get people, you know, I I guess we do need to know the body motion, but how we reconcile what sort of improvements we can make versus what how charitable we >> Thanks, Bill. Um this is just a basic question and page you talk about functional equivalents um uh functional full time sorry full-time equivalent and that's a similar to how the teachers the board of ed does is it similar kind of a calculation >> meaning what >> like oh I'm sorry >> full-time

158equivalent >> oh yeah you say one that's a full-time employee 40 hours a week and then variations >> there one would be a full-time employee then if there's any um decimal any percentage that would be the amount of hours like somebody works 0.5 to working got to move to working 19 and a half hours or something like that. >> Okay. I just figure and then probate we just pay the $20,000 that's like an operating expenditure but salaries >> and all that >> they're administrative costs they they go through judicial branchs right? >> Yeah exactly. >> Thank you. >> I have a couple of questions. What's Capture the Concept? >> Um, Capture the Concept is a local Farm Bington marketing firm >> that we um have contracted with over the past year to enhance our marketing

159and communications. Um, they produce a lot of the videos that you see on our social media to promote Farmington events, um, Farmington in general. So, uh, we've worked closely with them to kind of outsource some of that video making and editing. that's really improved our communication efforts online. >> Okay. >> And then um on page 11, the personnel services, can can you describe I see employee recruitments included in this budget line item. Can you just describe some of the recruitment efforts? So recruitment efforts are dependent on the job. Um, our standard recruitment is through Indeed. We used to publish in the Hartford Current and we stopped that practice a few years ago. One, it was very costly. A very small job ad would be 12 umundred $1,300 for something very small and we weren't getting

160a return on that. Indeed is free. They actually crawl our website and whenever we post a job, it automatically goes on Indeed. And that's, you know, anybody that's searching on Google, that's going to be the first hit that comes up. uh for something that is probably mid to upper level or management, I would do a post on professional organization. So if it's a say somebody in the engineering department, I would post on the American public works association, I would do a list serve that we have in the in Connecticut, it's a um public works list serve where they do email blasts on open open job opportunities. Uh we post on CCM, Connecticut Conference of Municipalities, their job board. We do LinkedIn. Um sometimes we attend career fairs or job fairs to try to especially for

161our police department, uh recruit people and let them know that we're searching for jobs. We cover a wide variety of topics. You know, if you're into social services or police or engineering, um we give us our them our contact information so they can continue to update, you know, check our website for available positions. So it it's really job type dependent. >> Okay. Thank you. Um I have a question about on page 12 the I can't tell which line it is. I know this is a carryover for this is like it was it's information technology and it was carried over and it's the line that's 75,168 which is contractual services and the school is we just heard like their costs are going up in terms of contracts and this is slightly lower so basically on par

162with last year. Just curious how >> overall um and you'll see this it's consistent throughout the budget. A lot of our software support and stuff and contractual is not just here but it's throughout the departments. For example, finance has a line for it and it's pretty consistent that most of the contracts have been going up about 5%. Some went up 7%. So what happens here is that something um we may not do something that we were going to do before. We may switch up. We always we always look ways to save money or or to find something some alternative way of going. So um that it's really what we look at. A big portion of this is actually we have a cyber security monitor. We have a company that monitors all of our traffic and

163this is where we pay for them out of that. And some of this will be we're cutting back not on the service itself but on some of the bells and whistles that go with the service. >> And then piggybacking on Keith's comments about utilities. Um I just want to understand the timing if you know we're going to talk later about whether about a bond process and rehabing this building potentially organizations moving in and as this is proposed it's contemplating a reduction in utilities for this building because lack of occupation. Can I assume that if the bond were to pass and we were to rehab and go through everything those utility costs would go back up as organizations move in? Yes. So this is simply contemplating that there's going to be a reduced occupation in the

164interim. Yes. Okay. >> Even Yeah. Um depending upon who comes in here and they renovations that also will impact it. Hopefully the renovations will bring more energy efficient >> factors to the building and also just the use of the building you know and the number of people that are in the building. But but to answer your question, for next year, it's anticipating this building will be pretty pretty much empty other than probate. >> And us don't don't freeze us. >> Yeah. >> Keep it on. >> Only one other. It's a NIT on page 18. Should services for the elderly be rebranded as Hope Partners? Okay, >> that's it. Thank you. >> All right. Thanks, Dave. Yeah, page 12 again. Um, the website redesign has not been included in this budget and I was just curious,

165I know it was something that, you know, we talked about and as a focus, do we have did we have an idea of what that might cost? >> Yeah, it it depends on how much you want to do, right? >> Um, we've estimated in my talks with for probably somewhere between 50 and $75,000 that would be needed for for the website redesign, >> right? And so I guess for me like an activity like that is that something you think Brian could get done in a year or is this like or is it more a two-year project so that 75,000 is actually 375 both fiscal years? >> I think it depends again how how much you want to do. I know in the strategic plan we look to set up a a small group to review

166that. Um, I think it's probably at least a sixmonth process to go through everything and make sure you know you can you're gonna have to do demos. You're gonna have to sample things. You're gonna have to see a a a sample of it and make some tweaks and some changes. So, I I would say at least six months. I don't know about a full year, but again, if you're putting a lot doing a total redesign, it would be more time, >> right? Um the other the other item I have is on the um on the town hall where you are now. Obviously, you know, the utilities of are going up and and the recommended uh utility for electricity up there is $100,000. Do is that is that do we have a pretty good handle on

167that? Like do do we have >> the existing on this town hall? >> No, the town hall, not the new town hall. I mean, I'm going off of page 26 now. It's $100,000. >> It's an approximation and but we do have um we've been paying bills all along for the building. Obviously, it's been been renovated. So, those bills aren't going to be the same, but we've been seeing what the bills since January with the bills have been coming in at. Um and we think we have a pretty good handle on that. >> Okay. guys know it. You know, it's going to probably it's going to be more than this building. This building ran about $88,000 a year. >> Got it. >> Um, but that building should be more energy effic hopefully more energy efficient. I

168know all my plugs go out at night, so my refrigerator doesn't work overnight, so we're saving some money. >> Have a lot of windows though >> because I'm hoping Yeah. I mean, and then obviously, yeah, because you know, we're running two buildings now. Obviously, we got the town hall annex here now and and I'm I'm hoping we could drop below the 453 actually, but you know, we'll see. That's all I have for right now. >> All right, Eden. >> Yes. So, the question I had was around uh the registars. So, what are like how many folks have we been registering? I think last year there was also an increase. Are we obligated to follow every election >> registars are going to come tomorrow? >> Oh, okay. >> I'm sorry. I said that at the beginning.

169Yeah. So, would answer those types of questions? >> Okay. >> Was I on the wrong page, Kathy? >> Yeah. >> I said, was I on the wrong page? >> No. >> Oh, okay. No, I should have they're in the account, but um they usually come separately into presentation budget. >> And then just on the grant, um I think it's on page 18 on the Farmington Library grant includes a 3% increase >> on page 18. >> Page 18 is that like um updates. That's the um that's just support just I was going back to see where I had notes on that. The increase is that to uh like renovations and stuff that they need or what is the grant for? >> No, this is basically in the library I think is coming uh tomorrow too, but

170I sorry that's okay. I can the library basically give the library a grant to it's majority of their operating expenses. So we give them a grant to even though they >> so any maintenance that they have to do >> everything. >> Yeah. So everything. So just whatever to run their business. Okay. Yeah, >> I'm only saying that because I was just thinking about how, you know, they mentioned their issues with their heating and >> that's their operating. >> What they do is they come to me with their draft uh uh budget and what they would make in the 3% and it's the personel social security. >> So that's the 3% is that dollar. Okay. Thank you. That's all I need to know. >> Thank you. That's all I had. And then but just a one

171thing that they do get some of their um income supplemented by their uh what is their group called >> the friends their endowment. >> Oh their endowment and then their >> we spent about 92% of their operating budget. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Um got to go back to um uh page 11 which uh the contractual services line. I guess I guess my question would stem around um have we made sufficient allowance in our uh estimate for this for some of the needs that might be coming up this year? You know, we have some senior people uh and and maybe some of the things we've been typically expending might not be sufficient. Whether that might be some overlap time uh for key roles uh uh head hunters signing bonus uh things like that.

172Um if we are uh concerned about that are we comfortable that we have enough in there for a little bit of uncertainty. >> Yeah. What we do is that in the salary reserve we have some different things for those types of things that come on and like in our uh oral hearing union we have things like reclassifications where again you're talking about more recruitment of things but there's other things too where all of a sudden an employee ask for a reclassification we have to bump people's salaries up and do different things. So we try to estimate get a list of people like that we know what that is. We try to put we we don't know if they're going to get reclassified but we have to put money in for that. We do different things

173for changing different. We've never really used the head hunter service before, but something like that would be we could put in in this it would be in the salary reserve account and we do try to make um accommodations. We don't know what's going to happen and we try to keep it as conservative as we can but we also want to have the money to do the things we need to do. >> Okay. Um I think a number of my questions have been asked. Give me a moment here. Uh the regional associations are Crague and CCM. Are those direct payments, charges for membership or some kind of service fees? How are how are these calculated and how how do we uh how are they paid? >> Um basically they're usually calculated on population and it's like

174so much per capita. Um, and then they will directly bill us that they'll sell last month or the month before they'll send us a a letter saying, "Hey, this is what we're looking at charges for next year." And then basically in July, they'll send us a bill and we'll pay the bill directly to them. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And both both CCM and cost are really our lobbyist group. That's a lot of what and that it's again based on some population and different things like that but that's what we're paying them for. >> And is the health district is a is similar or that's >> the health the health district is a regional health district. So instead of having a health director here we have a regional health director for all the uh Farmington

175Valley towns and so we run we're a regional health district >> and that cost >> population. Got it. And and that's the other thing we should point out Prague and CCM have pretty much flatlined their dues for probably the past 10 years. Um and the other thing about CC, we're um for our insurancees, our general liability, our workers comp, we participate in a risk pool called Kerma and at the requirement to participate in Kerma, we have to be a member of CCM. episodes. >> Understood. Okay. Uh thank you. Um and uh just piggybacking on what Naen was talking about the we're going to get the detail on the library to tomorrow. >> Uh tip I mean we have the detail. Typically the library handles their library budget but I can request if they if you'd

176like them to go through their library budget in detail they could do that for you. >> We have I mean we have the you know they give us >> it's a it's a big a big ticket item. Yep. And uh you know >> when did I get a >> I'm thinking that you know I'm wondering is is the usage of the library declining over time with you know the movement you know of people through new technologies and uh you know how uh you know is there an opportunity to save some money there is really what I'm getting at. What's they're going to tell you tomorrow, but what's interesting is the digital resources that they lend out, >> which are very popular, >> are equally, if not more expensive than the hard copies. And the licensing

177for them is a tremendous expense, and that's where a lot of their budget goes right now. But Jos's very good. She'll get into all of it tomorrow. Um, the library is an interesting one because it's, you know, independent. However, like Joe said, 92% of their budget comes from us. So, it is a big ticket item, but it supports both village and farm at the public library. Um, and they are still their their numbers are still pretty good as far as sense at least last I was aware of. >> But I'll what I'll do is I'll talk to the library director and I'll ask her to give a good overview and then show the the budget for you guys. I'll have I'll send that out to you tomorrow morning. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thank you.

178I think uh everything else has been asked. So, thank you. >> I had one quick question for Joe. So Joe, because that I I looked at it and then I figured, well, you kind of added to it, but Kerma does that's just general liability. Is that also our auto? I mean, what what policies do we share like in risk pool? And that would be on page 27. >> So actually everything there is except for the volunteer firefighters. >> Okay. >> Basically the the bonds, several of us have to be bonded. >> Okay. >> So we we Kerma, they don't underwrite the bonds. They they have a third party on right to bond professional liability that's ENO for um >> Yep. >> for the town for you. Automobile liabilities Kerma general liability and the umbrella are

179all written written through Kerma through the risk pool. The volunteer firefighters is through a company called VFIS. It's a volunteer basically it's an insurance um provider specializes in volunteer fire departments and and and actually we do go through Kerma as an agent to get that policy. >> Okay with us directly that you have to go through an agent and Kerma will act as our agent so to speak even though they're not our agent they'll act as our agent to get us that policy. So we use Kermit for everything. The board also uses Kerma. We all of our insuranceances, both the schools and the town are through Kerma. We have and and all the policies are one policy for both of us. >> And so that's a risk pool that we're in with all these other

180municipalities that have already have CCM membership and are actually can use it. >> Right. Basically, what happened was back in the probably the 90s um yeah, I think it was the 90s the mark the municipal market dried up. you could not get coverage anywhere and what coverage you could get was was through the roof. So, um CCM petitioned the state of Connecticut to give them a charter to set up a risk pool. There was a several of them that were set up and the only one that survived was Kermit. All the rest of them went by the buy. Um Kerma did survive and and it's gone very strong, but they have about 140 out of 169 municipalities. They do have districts um independent school districts and and some other things, but they're very strong. They

181have a very retention rate is about 90 93% each year. So um and the pool is very strong. It's it's well it's well reserved right now and and actually they give back um in good years they'll actually give back dividends um for you know I don't want to say premium but they'll give back to the to their participants. >> Got it. >> Okay. You've answered my questions. Thanks. >> Anyone else have a followup? No. No. >> So typically you would make a motion and it would be budget pages 1 through 27. I'd say minus page nine and minus page 18 and nine is the registars and 18's the library. >> What about economic development? I know Rose is at we presenting a presentation on that tomorrow or >> no. >> Okay. >> No. >> All

182right. So which pages Kathy >> - 1 through 27 >> 127 minus 9 and minus page 18. >> Okay. >> I make a motion for a tentative approval of pages 1 through 27 minus page pages 9 and 18. >> Second. Any discussion? All in favor? >> I passes unanimously. I thought we could go to I think we said benefits next and page 69 >> and 70. >> Hold on. 69 and 70. >> All right. So, okay. So the this is our benefits and our other account. The other account is just a small contingency that the council has of $10,000 that if something comes up that we use for that. That's what the other account is and the benefits. Um Joe can go through any of the questions that you may have on that. Overall the

183account has decreased 1.74%. Um some of that decrease though and we'll I was going to talk a little bit more about it to tomorrow when the police are here but again because we were able to move uh employees out of the operating budget their benefits were also moved out of the operating budget too. So that helped us there too. >> Right. Do you have any questions? I'll start down at your end. >> No questions. >> Nine. >> No questions. >> Dave? >> No. Good. >> Patty? >> No questions. >> Yeah. Just on the hypertension. Um, I know that that the the potential class of individuals that would qualify for those benefits continues to shrink year-over-year, right? And my understanding though under the statute is that the town has the dollar financial in other words, it's

184not workers comp, it's the town has the financial responsibility. So that $68,000 that's that's an actual like estimate as to what the cash exposure is for benefits or how how do you guys do? So we have um anybody hired after a certain date and I don't remember the exact date was back in the 90s >> in 97 I think >> they're they're now considered workers comp for heart hypertension. Anybody prior to 97 would still be qualified for um for heart and hypertension. Um we've had numerous claims we've settled quite a few of them. We have two left. >> Okay. um that are out there and one is a one is a maintenance. It's persons basically has hypertension >> and so it's a it's a maintenance situation for them. We're paying their pharmacy bills but we

185are are responsible for anything that should happen to them and any and to their survivors. And then we have a survivor. Um we have a a a police officer who passed away many many years ago and his wife or spouse has a survivorship benefits. So that number pretty much um 95% of that number is is survivorship payments and the rest of it is basically maintenance. We we used to also budget for stiffs. We try to stip people out and we just nobody wants to stip anymore. So we're basically paying for two people. >> I understand. >> Okay. And that can't be annuitized like kind of separately like you know like could you annuitize those those those financial obligation or it's something you the town can't do. In other words like you go out and buy

186an annuity say for >> um we could it's right now it's >> you know >> it's not that much. >> We could have a conversation about that offline. >> It's not just it's a little it's sensitive to talk about >> publicly. Fair enough. that >> be more than happy to talk offline about >> that's fine. Absolutely understood. >> All right. Thanks, Keith. >> Um, without getting too much in the weeds, just because we've been talking about, you know, attracting employees, whatever else. So, with the a for the average employee, do we offer good benefits? >> Yes, >> we do. So, we've never had somebody say, "I would take this job, but your healthcare stinks or your uh 401k plan is bad or >> No, I mean, our benefits as most municipalities have changed >> because

187of the fact that we're we've gotten away with most of the department from the pension plan." >> Yeah. But our police department is still a pension plan which is an attractive and a lot of police departments are still but that if we weren't I would say that would be a big problem but we I think we excuse me made a very good decision to keep the pension plan and especially how it's so hard to recruit police now. Um, and so other than that, um, but one of the problems without the pension plan is that people don't stay as long and we do have a a retention because of that because of not having the pension plan, but I don't know too many municipalities that have full pension plans still for >> Yeah. I compared to

188our competition for municipal workers. >> No, we we keep on reviewing. We are going to review a little bit on our 401 what our match is for um >> what is it right now? >> 6% and so but we're going to do we've been doing a little bit of a study to make sure that that's competitive. Um >> I mean sounds good just based on >> submit that's pretty good. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean we what was the um >> yeah that's right >> people we've talked to tell us that um I I just personal experience I tried not personal professional experience I tried to recruit somebody to come here and they're getting 10% in another town >> a 10% match >> that's now that's for what type of position >> 401 it was it

189was a maintainer position >> for maintain position okay >> oh my god >> so um >> you might be a little bit behind on that one >> wow Yeah. >> Yeah. I'd be curious to know more about what other towns are doing to adversary because I just as we've had these conversations about how hard it is to fill roles in certain departments and things like that knocking out the benefits part is one where we can set a policy here and and >> the one thing that we have changed up we're looking at that and like I tend to agree more with Joe. I think we're probably a little low in comparison um because we do have very good benefits >> and the other thing that we've changed up and it's been a change and we've

190done it in the union contracts and we've talked about it a little bit. Everyone wants more vacation. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And that's that's another thing that we've tried to bump that up and different things like our old contracts and again it's they you know you get five days for a year of time and that's like old real old school and so any higher level person you know we we work with the unions and do different things for vacation time. Everyone wants vacation time. It's hard to tell somebody who's coming from another job that has say three weeks that you can't get five days until you work with us for six months. Like that's that's hard. So we've we've worked like Kathy said to put it in contracts to give happy that negotiating power when

191we're hiring people to to start them off with some more vacation time to make it more attractive. Has the administration of the CT sick leave policy impacted? Have you found just in general that employees are good about that or have you found complications? Because I know there's an ability to like, you know, take an hour here or an hour there if you want to. >> We don't have that. >> I thought we have to have that. >> Is he talking about the state? >> The state? Yeah, the state law. >> We we under state law, we have to provide our part- timerrs any anybody with um sick time. >> Yeah. But we're not part of that commission and that consortium that people are paying into to take sick leave or take personal leave. >> Get

192paid leave act. >> Yeah, we are we are not >> a municipality exempt from that. >> There's two different ones there. There's one which is the >> Yeah, >> the pay and there's one that's the the the time off, >> right? We do have the 40 hours >> where you have to bank it. >> Yeah, we have the 40 hours. We have not had significant issues with that. >> Great. That's good. But like Joe said the like the Connecticut version of FMLA. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> We do not we do not pay into it and therefore we're >> Yeah. That that I I just I I remember last we were cons I mean here we were concerned that >> Yeah. because you have these unions and collectively bargain pay time off whatever else. So

193it could be a complicator but it's good to hear that's not >> right. >> That's it. >> Great. Are there any follow-up questions before? If we were you're looking at the increase match 401k, would that be part of future contract negotiations or would you be looking at that like in a next budget cycle? >> It depends on what who the position was coming in. If it was a non-unized position, that would be something that we would do on what we talked about with Bruce in our salary reserve. That would be a change of that. If it was not a non if it was a a contract position, which most of our employees are, it would have to be negotiated in the contracts. >> Okay. >> I could just for the uh I know there's three

194members of the former members of the retirement board. Just to let you know what your hard work has done. Um >> I see it. They don't it's it's buried in there, but your contribution for next year increased the contribution to the pension plan next year increased by $26,000. So that was u really really good. It's like I've never seen an increase that low since I've been here. So >> you guys did a good job. >> Thank you. >> Congratulations. Whoa, that was >> all the track the tractor that was really late like 2022 though, right? >> We did a lot of work. >> I said three of you. I said three of you. So, >> so we don't have any other >> Well, just staying with employee benefits and and not necessarily what's here, but

195we did work on hours, right? We worked on Didn't we work on hours where people have a half day? >> So that was never um find like the contract that was not >> Oh, that that never got embedded. >> Again, that didn't get >> that. Okay. I wasn't sure that didn't get put into the Okay. >> Okay. If we don't have any further questions, you want to take a uh >> I make a motion to approve to temporarily approve 69 pages 69 and 70. >> Second. Any discussion? All in favor? >> I opposed >> passes unanimously. Thank you very much. >> All right, the next one was we're going to do debt service, which is >> 71. >> This is the And this is on page 71, but also just so you remember, it's also

196on your front page on your uh tax and budget worksheet. It's the same. It's the debt number. So, so if you notice on the tax and worksheet, it's 13,985,252. And if you look on page 71, you can see the same number. And that went up 1.96%. And Joe, maybe you can talk to the debt. >> Sure. Basically, this is all of our obligations, our existing obligations that we have to pay. going back uh to from 2013 up to 2025 and plus our clean water debt. We have three issues there for the u upgrade of the treatment plant. And we also have money in here set aside for the potential debt issue probably late in 2026, maybe early 2027 for what we're looking at right now is approximately a $13 million debt issuance at that time.

197And it's really could be hopefully be a cleanup issue of some projects that are out there. And we did budget the interest cost for that in here. >> All right. We have any questions? Uh see Bill, you got any question? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Just I just want to make sure I heard you right there. I might I might have missed it. If we were to uh fund the bond or or bond the HVAC is the cost of that the cost of the debt the interest cost. >> No. >> I wouldn't um >> would be next year. >> Yeah. That would that would be a 2027 issue. >> Got it. would happen with that is um that's that's small enough that again because you have monthly fund balance you could advance cash towards that. >>

198Got it. >> So we would advance cash towards that debt issuance in sometime in 2027 once that and again that's a school pro technically a school construction project. wouldn't want to issue the debt until the project was complete and we knew what the reimbursement rate was going to be so that we could just issue our portion of it and not the >> so we front it as as it went. >> So we would we would front the cash until we had a good handle as what the exact cost would be. >> Thank you. That's actually really important piece of information because any potential opposition would be the perception that we're going out and borrowing money right away when that's actually not necessarily what we're going to do. the pretty much um with the exception of

199roads um pretty much any project it's usually it won't get issued for at least a year. We won't borrow for at least a year before. For example, um the police HVAC project was approved two years ago. We haven't bonded it yet. That that would that would actually come up in the next bond issues. the HVAC for the senior center and the um highway garage, assuming those projects go off the ground shortly. That will probably get caught up in this one here. But um fire trucks fire trucks are another exception. Fire trucks usually get bonded fairly quickly after the you're authorized >> just because of the the lag time to get the truck, right? >> And and they're not something that you take a long time. You can go out to bid quickly for a truck

200and get it. So, um yeah. >> Thank you. Keith, >> did you have a question or want? >> You're good. All right, >> nothing. Thank you, >> Dave. >> Um, no. I think again he's going to go the 2020, you know, in this calendar year, it's going to be later on in the year that you're going to do this bond issuance. Um, obviously if if Bill's report was correct the other day on the high school, right, the finance committee over the next few months is going to basically reconcile that and get that done. The 1928 building, I would assume, is in the same ball of wax. >> Yeah, the 1928 building is a little different. Uh, there's no state reimbursement, so we don't have to >> have to go to the VAS or whatever. >>

201Yeah, we don't have to do anything with them. And we've actually issued the majority of the 1928 building. The only thing I left was a million dollars. >> Okay. >> And I'm not really sure why I did that. Um Okay. >> But I did leave a million dollars un um not issued and I would issue that and the next bond issue. Perfect. Close out that that authorization. >> And just help me because you said the interest is here in this >> the in the bond interest C um number. There's interest included for there's an interest payment included for to give you an example how it would work. If you look at the manager's column on page 71 and there's a bond interest line third line down >> it's 2.7 million2721 >> and if you go

202to the opposite page and if you go down to where it says subtotals bonded debt and you across >> you see 2521 I got it 69. >> That's the delta. So, so the $200,000 is built in um into the budget for the for the next >> I didn't see it here, but now when you reconcile both these I see the $200,000. Okay, that was my >> hopefully the other one matches out the principal. Yeah, principal is 8140 principal's 8140. So good. >> Okay, thank you. >> I don't have any questions. Thank you, >> Bruce. >> Mechanically, how do these work? Because we have like multiple instruments. Are they lump sum? Does your office process all the payments or is there a custodian we work with? >> No, we we uh contract with US Bank as

203our uh as the registar and paying agent everything is done electronically these days and there's only actually only one excuse me even though each one of each year of it of an issue is stands alone. So when when somebody bids on bonds they actually bid on the different years and they bid different interest rates for the different years. So um usually but everything goes to one bidder. It doesn't we don't break up the we don't break up the years to multiple biders. We all go we basically goes to the lowest bit the lowest true interest cost but we only issue one bond actually even though there's multiple bonds. There's 20 years of bonds we only issue and all bonds are issued in in increments of $5,000. We issue one paper bond and everything else >>

204it's a single QIP. No, >> there multiple QPS but a single bond. >> It's one single bond that Kathy and I signed and it's stored at um it's s it's actually stored with a registar in in New York City and we hire US bank to make be the paying agent on our behalf. So whenever a bond issue comes up, US Bank will whenever debt payment comes up, US Bank will notify us 60 days in advance and say on this date we need X number of dollars from you so we could pay the bond holders. We will transfer X number of dollars to US Bank. US Bank will then um pay the bond holders. >> Got it. Got it. And so none of them are are callable and there's no syncing funds or >> bonds. All

205of our bonds are callable after uh 10 years. >> They are all callable after 10 years. >> Yeah. Yeah. we either between seven and 10 years we put a call provision in our bonds. Um so that's been it was very successful for us back in the early 2000 2010 to 2015 we called pretty much every single bond we had outstanding refinance that >> save money. Yeah >> now it doesn't pay to do that because the >> the other way around. >> It's the other way around right now. And also the big tool that we always had was we were allowed to advance refund our bonds. Whereas even if a bond wasn't callable, we could um we could basically call it or borrow the money. Say say we had $13 million outstanding and it wasn't callable

206until 2017. I could in I could issue $13 million. I I could do if you guys approved it, I would issue $13 million, put it in escrow and I would use the escrow proceeds to um pay this interest and then in 2017 I'd pay off all the bond holders um at the at the call day. This the 20 whatever it was the 2017 tax bill or whatever the big federal tax bill 2017 2018 it did away with advanced refunding. So, we can no longer advance refund. So, we can we have to wait till it's callable. >> This is good. All right. Thank you. >> All right. Any other follow-up questions? >> Now, we know why Katy likes to go to the >> You want a TA? Uh, >> I make a motion to temp for

207a TA at page 71. >> Second. >> Any discussion? All in favor? >> Opposed? passes unanimously. Thank you everyone. >> I thought what time is about 7:30? I thought maybe we'd go through the capital some of the capital things. >> So we talked about the capital. We have it in the back of the book. It's uh page we we typically don't TA the capital. We're just talking about the capital. Mhm. >> Um, so you see that our capital is again referred to the front page of the tax and budget worksheet 3,852,000 and it's a 27.68% increase. We've talked quite a bit about the various capital expenditures. I don't know if you wanted to just ask questions or you wanted to focus a little bit on um uh the town hall annex. I know that we

208came back with some information um when I did my presentation. Um, so >> I'll jump in. I'll defer to town hallics for a second. There was some discussion when Russ presented about a snow removal >> vehicle. Um, and we were talking about if we were to do that, we could put that in capital. >> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. >> Um, I think but but when you that I don't think you did you put that in what that would how that would impact the budget. Uh, no I did not. It's it's we we got a price from uh Russ and it was with the equipment that comes with it. Was it $260,000 for the snow or you know thrower or throw blower? >> Snow the snow thing. >> Um is that one thing I was thinking

209about is could that uh vehicle whatever give us an opportunity like in other words other communities needed it. Could we rent it out or? >> You know, it's interesting you said that because I was like to Russ, let's borrow a couple of the but everyone needs them at the same time. >> Well, right. That's what I was thinking. >> Yeah. Everyone uses it at the same time. >> Well, what you're hoping for is not a long not a quick warm up. Want a prolonged call. So, we get done first. >> Yes. >> Yeah. If it was if it wasn't in the high school, maybe we could consider that high school. >> Okay. Fair enough. So, I guess it's really a a council decision whether or not we collectively feel like it's a good good thing

210to have. >> Yeah. >> Based on what Russ has said, >> right? And and again, couple of things. I think we've mentioned it. We didn't put it in this budget because one, we didn't realize how we've never had the big snow like this and then we've seen how unproductive uh it is with the kind of snow that we've had. And so that's why it's kind of moved up to the top of the >> and it's like one of these things too. You could sit here and say, "Well, I mean, we all saw the need of it, right? And you need it when you need it, >> right? >> But if you know, if we have the winters like we've had for the last 12 years, it's just going to be sitting there collecting dust." >>

211Right. Right. Um, yeah, it would still be used up there. It just wouldn't be to the extent, but I mean, it's still we still use it and things like that. I mean it to me it's it's more about it's you know we're paying money out to someone else to with that kind of snow we typically would not you know typically but because of it's such a high maintenance type of thing you still need quite a few employees up there doing it and because it's the high school you know to open school obviously you have to that takes away from the employee that's plowing the road and so you know it's that makes it diff benefit analysis in that regard because you You're committing staff and then pin contractors. >> Yeah. >> Has he got the

212bills yet in for any contractors? >> I think Russ was getting that form. Yeah. >> Curious that that number was interesting, right? >> Yeah. >> Because he kept that he says that number was like 100 grand or something like that. I don't know. >> Yeah, >> maybe we should think about it. Right. >> Yeah. The other thing to consider with that snowthrower too is just for the sake of because there was also discussion. I know when we had talked about annex maybe we did this or did that maybe there would be free capital to do a second truck because rock you know we've talked about how you know I think um um there's some nostalgia for like the Farmington wave but then there's also the the effect of like push some of the stuff down

213the road then the bill comes due for lots of trucks. So I would just say there's the real you know I would defer to Russ on what he wants and he said he would prefer the snow grower over another truck. So I so I would >> take that as got and he can tell us tomorrow. But I would just say it's another one of those situations where >> so it is another year where that truck gets pushed off and it's not because >> um council's being cheap or we're trying to stretch a dollar. We're actually trying to give more into it. I just think for the record, you know, it's a thing to consider. I also know Middletown does this really interesting thing where they push the municipality pushes all the snow into the middle

214of the road and they come by with one of these snow throwers and then >> suck it all up and get it off the road. Yeah. So, I think that there I don't know that we would be able to do this because I know a lot of Middletown is is is two lanes particularly on Main Street. Um, but I do know there's probably other applications for this, too, where if we had a big snow instead of keeping the bank so heavy, we could probably get rid of it in other areas, too. So, >> Oh, I think we'd use it like it wouldn't just sit different things. >> It wouldn't sit up on the top. And I can't remember what municipality it wasn't Middletown, but there's another municipality that he's been talking to and they they

215love it. They use it all the time. Oh, Middletown has a really good snow removal where they Yeah, they they push they have two trucks go down on both sides of the road, push it all off the middle, and then they come down with this huge snowb blower and they back it into a truck and go and everything's off the streets, off the sidewalks like >> Yeah, I actually saw that in operation in Windsor after the the first big snowstorm. They actually went down the side roads in one of the neighborhoods and took the snow right off right back to the curb. >> Yeah. >> And put it into the truck. So, it's quite impressive actually. >> A lot of road we could do that on. Yeah. >> Did we consider looking at potentially a

216secondhand one? I mean, there's probably none around here, but you know, I grew up in Montreal. They have hundreds of these things. >> Canada. >> Yeah. Maine, Canada. >> Yeah, >> we I we haven't I it's something we can talk about with Ross. I know that they've been doing a lot of research and trying to figure out uh what it is. I mean, again, I'm not against a secondhand one unless but again, I don't want to have a piece of equipment that is breaking down. >> Russ loves secondhand stuff. because you know we have a lot of old equipment as it is >> right warranty on another thing I thought about too was with the because there there was also a snow melter right >> but to my I am sure the melter is more

217expensive >> the melter is just >> energy cost well that was going to be my point is that I bet you are we have really good mechanics yeah >> and the a large snowthrower sounds like something that a really good mechanic can handle without special training where a melter probably has these components that are different than what >> and then you're you're heating it and then you know Yeah, >> expensive to do that. And then, you know, there's, you know, if it didn't have the salt in it and stuff like that, I maybe would consider it because then you'd have all that water and if you could use the water for something, but it has the salt in it, so that doesn't work. >> I'm good. I'm good with that. >> I have nothing else

218on that. >> So, a couple things on the capital. One would be we and I'll start the small one, then I'll get to the town hall annex for a second, but the tinty barn improvements, $50,000 going to do the rest of the project. the English group and so forth. >> And then we just touched upon it, but there's some ideas about now that the building will be >> stabilized and actually aesthetically pleasing, there might be a future for it. >> Yes. Well, >> or this might not be the place to talk. >> Yeah. Let me let me talk offline with you about this. >> Okay. And then and then you can decide if you want to publicly talk about it. But they are renovating it. There's been different organizations that have come to us and

219asked about the building and so I'd rather talk to you offline about that. >> Okay, great. Okay, fine. Um, so on the town hall annex, I guess um the $7 million I think um you know and then we talked a little bit on on just kind of a phased approach or whatever. I mean, everybody everybody that night made a great case for where they are now and the space that they could, you know, harness here and and how it would how it would uh leverage their operations and so forth and so on. The I guess the question for me is on this is that it's it's easy enough to get the multiple users. we're blessed to have these uh volunteer organizations do the great work that they have and bring them here. I I just

220think we should probably kind of spend the money just really understand that design, not necessarily from the report that you know that you know where it's all colorcoded and who's going where. It's just that this this building was built differently than the 1928 building. The 1928 building is a woodframe building within a masonry structure. So like when you want to like pipe through it and so forth, it's pretty easy, right? Because it's wood construction and you just kind of run risers where you run them. You run vertical pipes. This building's built a little differently. So I'd rather understand where these people are and then what's the improvements we need to make in this building that I think are going to be more expensive than even the 1928 building to execute some of the things that

221we want to do here. And I think it would be prudent at least from my point of view would be to really understand that in its totality and then and then decide whether we want to bond it all in one shot or you know there's a phased approach at that point. That's that's kind of where that's kind of where I come down at. You know what I mean? So I do think I do think um I mean knowing that we're going into a re reval year next year I mean this comp you know could complicate matters a little bit and that's a different discussion that we can collectively have >> right and yeah I think part of it is I think it's a you know it's this way your point is very well taken and

222it also goes maybe a little bit to what Keith was saying on a different end is that again some of the logistics of how this is all going to work. Hasn't been ironed out either, >> you know. But then that said, it's it's not it's not like we're not doing best practices. It's doable. We can we can do it because of the fact that we're going to have a ref uh reval year next year. So, we have to look at the whole big picture of it. But to me, if you were saying that there was no reval year and anything like this, you do it more. You'd get an architect. we'd iron out more of what how this is all going to work with the council. Are we charging? What's the utilities? How what is

223this building is different? And then put it on. It'll be ready to go next year. But the pro there's a couple of problems though is that the HVAC system here is really on its brinks. And I don't know if anyone had heard that, you know, probate didn't have this. But we can fix things. It's not the it's not like it's totally off, but it's there's problems. But I'm concerned about putting an HVAC system as a standalone because it's hard to we don't have a lot of time and it's hard to explain why we're doing an HVAC system in a town hall that we just built a new town hall >> and that without the rest of the people in it, you know, like context. And then the other problem is is that you do the

224HVAC system and then next year you want to get people in and do the renovation and no one wants to do the renovation and then we have a brand new HVAC system >> for for a building that has you know someone else in it. So it's it's complicated. It's a complicated >> So I guess two things. One is again maybe terrible idea but things pop my brain. Is there any utility to to bonding out for the AC but holding off on the work? You know what I mean? I guess that doesn't make sense, right? To try to to try to get them timed out more together, but to have the bonding, it doesn't make any sense. My my next my my thing about the the annex and everything was my my initial pitch that I

225said was I I believe that there is utility in this building for and I think that there I I don't know that Nancy would agree. She may not, but when I look at the space that's at Staples House and the space that's in town planning and zoning and so to be able to move from Staples House into here, there's significant office room. There's their own dedicated conference room in there. Plus, there's the ability to walk down here and use this space that they need to. There's the um the outside area as well. And so, I thought for her there would be utility just in in being here, which is why it would be a good idea to to to do the AC, open the doors and say, "Please come come in and we can do

226it after." Now, I understand that for her and for other the other groups to move in and then do this rehab work and have to move out and it's like this hoke pokey. It probably makes it more difficult, which I get. But in thinking about a lot, the the one space that I think that could certainly be separated off for the time being is like house. I think that's going to be the one where we're going to find the most, you know, hidden costs where you're going to take part one thing and it's going to become another thing and it's going to become another thing. And so, so I don't know. I mean, we I would love to take the temperature of everybody else how people feel about we we all agree that these are

227worthy causes. We all agree that we want them to have a great space. I think everybody I think and again I don't want to speak with you guys. I think we probably would all get to a space where we were comfortable with trying to come up with covering as much utility and rental and all that kind of stuff. Um, but we do have the revalure next year. So, it's nice to get things done when we have the funds, but it's also the bill's going to come due. Um, you know, our tax rate looks good, but we are still on the high side of the um, you know, increase, right? The the the budgetary increase, right? because we said 2.75 to uh four and a half or 4.75 and we're at what like 4.25 right now

228like that. >> Um so we're still on the higher end of that and and these things kind of >> because they're bonded they're not necessarily like >> on the report card you know >> but they are because they're going to come due next year in in the general budget. So I'm I'm really of two minds about it because on the one hand anything that is its own bonding question gives the public the ability to vote it down. So we could pass a great budget and the public could could vote this section of it down and that we could get roads and not this or we could get none of the big ones. And so part of me says like if it's going to be for the public then let the public vote for it. But

229it it is a lot and it it's it's a lot on top of a lot. So I just you know >> one of the things and then is that like we were talking a little bit last night and I think >> in in 20 years people would are this would be it's would be a wonderful campus if this was done you know like when you come back and in history and you say you come in and you have your social services and your food bank and the the a cultural district bridge and everything's going and you say you know but it's a hard it's a hard decision. I also tend to think that, you know, if you're going to lump it together, you do them both together and for the public and you have these

230nonprofit agencies and if they can get their people out and you get a pulse on the community because again, it's it's it it has to take some time to get people to understand that we're not renovating a town hall again for a town. you know, people are moving in and it I think it would give you kind of a barometer of where the public stands if you put it out there together >> again, you know, and you have it if if it crashes and burns, I think you got a pretty clear message on >> people then worry that, you know, two years from now we're at the the library and we went from putting through a hundred million dollar high school or whatever it was to, you know, every it's just it's my point is

231just it's it's, you know, you said we've never done so a year ago, we had never done so many projects at the same time. And that's the same for the taxpayer, too, at a time where mill rates are going up. So, I'm talking both sides of my mouth because I'm not in favor. I'm not against maintaining this building and doing it. I I agree with you. I think it would be great if there was, you know, again, we could do the walking trail straight to the municipal campus and we have the high school here and kids can go at night 28. I'm sure there's going to be utility for hope partners in the old gymnasium at town hall and things like that for for events. It's just it's a lot of fun. >> Yeah. want

232to go back to Naen because I wanted >> I was just gonna say >> I agree it is a lot and maybe it's a staggered >> thing. I also think a bacon building over time is going to also cost money to renovate down the road. So if it and the average cost of the current budget I think is $265 of an increase as it is today, right? Um and I know we're going to revail next year potentially an increase. So, it's not a good time either way, but if we were to do it, it's makes sense now versus maybe later. Um, but I'm more of the staggered approach. I just worry in a couple years having a vacant bill, it's going to be challenged, >> cost more, >> I guess. I I I go to

233like page 71. I take a look at page 71 and I look at the page that says fiscal year 2627. I look at our bonding, right? And we look at that and I look at I look at 013 15 16 17 19 and you know there's small balances you know you know and then you then you hit the high school and you're 32 million 27 million 29,450,000 22,500 and so so and I I think Bill said it in our meeting last week unfortunately when we talked about moving this and I don't disagree with the fact of your observation of a beautiful campus and all these things I I totally agree with you. Okay. But when that was conceived up there, it wasn't conceived as a $25 million project. >> the town hall up on the

234hill was what I'm saying is the $7 million for me is part of is part of that project and it so so no. So for me, it's the $7 million is something that's like a kicker at the end that we just weren't transparent enough in the beginning. >> Yeah. >> And that's what really is the crux of where I'm at with this is that >> I just think that, you know, these numbers here show that we really taking on a lot of responsibility that, by the way, I think we needed a high school a lot sooner than o, you know, than we got it. And for a number of years, I think people were kicking that can down the road >> for whatever reason. For whatever reason, but but that that's been handled and moving

235up to the town hall to the 1920 has been handled. And I think at some point we just, you know, I understand timing and I understand all of that, but >> it's a lot to ask. It's just a lot to ask. But like you say, and I think Keith said it very well, is that if we do decide to put it there, I mean, the voters have the final they have the final say on whether the money should actually be appropriated in in a lump sum like that right now or or or not. >> And the other thing and Dave and Nan what has to be put into this equation is that we have fire stations, >> right? Right. The fire stations are big projects, >> right? Talk about getting kicked can kicked down the

236road, >> right? >> Those guys have been right. We'll tell you they've been put off and >> and they and they they have been and you know you we've been talking about it and it's it's a much more comprehensive project now which is needed and our fire stations again kicking the can kicking the can kicking the can and it's a big project and that's that's coming like soon I think. Right. >> Right. >> That's true. >> So that's >> and that's a great example of kind of what we're talking about right here. This is something that we all kind of agree is a real benefit to the town, to the entire town. It benefits residents and the nonprofits and uh if we don't do something about it, if we start kicking it down the can,

237we have seen in the past with high schools, with firehouses, what happens if we take these what I would consider a smaller project compared to the others, >> it's only going to get bigger and uglier >> if we don't do something about it. So that's one of the things that I'm considering in this conversation because we're willing to do half the project that we say it's definite something we've got to do if we're going to take care of the AC. We do a little more. Do we get it done and off our plate at a better price than what we're going to get if we do it halfway and try and do it in four years? >> What goes to the senior center? What hope? >> Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. >> No, I spoke up.

238What goes in the senior center? What's hope? >> It's not a really large space of office space. So they'll just ask for the programs of that nature. >> And as we heard last night, there are a lot of programs at the senior center. >> Yeah, they've certainly they've certainly demonstrated some com. Did you finish up? >> Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. >> Um I have a couple of comments. I'm wary more I think about it of splitting HVAC and the larger renovation. I'm concerned about the timing of when that larger renovation when the renovation later would happen and what happens if we have funded an HVAC project and then two years down the line the town decides we we don't want to fund any more projects and now we've put a brand new HVAC system in

239through capital which what do we do now because of all the policies about how long we should maintain something and if we don't we're not using the building to full capacity so So that is a concern for me. Um I do I I think I mean Kathy we talked you mentioned it we talked 20 years from now it would be great if we could have all these services provided here and have the whole campus set up and it makes it puts us today in a much harder position. Um I I do have concerns about probate being in here and not having heat for however many days it was. Um, and my understanding is that we cannot move social services in yet because with the planning department spend like what's you'd have to put you'd have

240to put some you couldn't do they just couldn't move in >> you know we could probably again depending on what what kind of renovation we probably could get get them in but you're talking you know some renovation I mean and the other thing >> talking about you said Dave it's your point when you think about it is that this building we have vaults We have like different things in here, you know. It's like it's, >> you know, that's a thing like so even like the engineering department, it's not the end of the world, but the engineering department has a big vault in there. It has like stuff that's different. >> It's a former prison cell down there. >> Prison cells down here, you know, >> which was never renovated. So, it's, you know, it's different.

241You know, we could I mean, yes, we we potentially we could get social service in here, but you have to put money into it. >> Yeah. What's the argument for including the annex into this thing? Like for the costsaving part? >> I'm sorry, I didn't >> What's the argument for including the annex and for cost saving for saying to like keep it all in about the annex, the staples house? Um because I know I I I've met people in that artist collective. I'm I like that idea a lot, but the argument for doing it all right now is because this the synergy of this building. >> Yeah, I I'm referring to this building. I think you made I didn't think of your point on the Staples house, but I I agree. Older historic buildings have

242other things hiding beneath the walls when you start to do things. So, >> do we need to do Stinkle's house right now if we're going to focus on the annex? >> I'm sorry. >> Well, they're a player to move in, aren't they? >> Yeah. >> No, we need to renovate house now since it's probably some thing. I mean, if if you want if you chose to move uh social service in, then you would you could leave it as is and, you know, notate it. >> We welcome them to come in and use the property as it. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, I I I've been thinking about this. I know we all have. Um, and this is like an interesting test like we're all, you know, for us new counselors, like here we go.

243This is like really what we're we're kind of charged to do. These are hard choices. These are these are really hard choices because as you say Keith Ke Keith, no one here doesn't agree with the value of bringing in our community partners into into this place. They need it they need us. It's a good it's a good idea. It's a really good idea. Kath, I think you might remember um my memory serves. I remember talking about the idea of kicking things down, kicking cans down the road. I remember probably maybe 20 years ago or so, maybe a little bit longer than that. town had the opportunity, if I'm not mistaken, to buying the building across the street from >> for a million bucks. >> Yeah. Green buyer, >> right? Green buyer. We could and that

244could have been >> town hall. >> That's what it was supposed to be. >> And there was an organized opposition to the idea of spending a million dollars on something like that. And it for whatever reason the bond was a bond. No, it never got there. They never got there. Never got there. Right. the council basically at that time chose not to bring it to the community. >> Yeah. >> And the choices that were made 20 plus years ago are now here. And so we have to I think realize that the decisions we're making are going to echo down over the next 15 as you say 20 years, right? With a bridge, God willing, right? And a beautiful campus that it' be the envy of New England, right? >> Uh with a br with a

245high school that will still be state-of-the-art in teachers. Um, so I that I struggle with that and so I think but the re the response to that struggle I think and the way to solve that problem is is to really prioritize you know and that's why we have seven-year capital plans and that's why you present them to us because we need to be thinking about down the road a fire station right which in my personal point of view is a greater priority >> than whether or not we put air conditioning or or or avail this building to anybody. And the other thing I'm concerned, as you said, this is a big year and that $14 million is going to be on the, you know, more or le I can't speak for everybody. I think it's

246going to make it to the to to the referendum. So, if you're if I'm thinking about it as and I'm a community member and I see $14 million for the for the HBAC for the high school, $7 million for the town hall index, and $4 million for new roads, I I am not I think you you said it's unlikely. there's a significant um likelihood that only one or two of those pass, right? And so if we go to to the town with $7 million here, right, to Dave's point, 7 million that will be portrayed, rightly or wrongly, has not necessarily been fully vetted when the 1928 building was was put in. Um that I think there'll be some resistance in the community, but I can't say it other way. As for the Staples House, my

247feeling on it is simply we I I love the idea of giving it to the to the art group. Here you go. Figure it out. Figure it out. Raise money. Do your thing. Whatever you got to do, we won't stay in the way. But we're not in a position to to build that building out for anybody given the potential financial burdens that we could start pulling things apart. So, I mean, I it's going to take take a lot for me to want to support really truthfully anything as it relates to the annex. But I'm not naive to the fact that what I just said is equally true about that, which is to say we kick it down the road with the million-dollar deal that we had 20 years ago, which is now a 20 million

248dollar plus deal, right? If we don't do this now and we there's going to be a need for it, we're going to have to do it at some point because we're not tearing the building down. So to to Nine's point, we're not going to leave the building vacant, right? So while I think I understand the cons all too well about peacemealing out the project, I think I could probably get behind the AC portion of it, the HVAC portion of it as as a stepping stone, right? because then we'll have the building ready for when we want to do more. And I think we just have to be honest with the community and honest with our community partners that really want to avail themselves to the building. Guys, look, we we get it. We understand. But

249we're in a we're in a challenging spot right now and for all the reasons we've just D they've just said, right? And we've got to figure this out still. This is brand new for us. We're still trying to figure out how to bring the 1920 to because we're going to have to staff and heat and do all the things for both buildings. And I don't I don't think that question was truly fully vetted when the referendum on the I think 28 building was put forward. With all due respect, um I think people just have to understand that. I think they have to be patient with us. I think the HVAC is really important part because by doing that and not going to the seven million you for the full project, it does give us flexibility

250to respond to your suggestion which I think is actually which at first blush like you know $500,000 a year you and we build it out over time. My first reaction, right? Well, who wants to do that? Um, but at least but but it does do allows us some flexibility down the road to respond to that. And I think that might be how I ultimately land on it. Understanding full well there's a cost attached to that. But there but but there are there are costs I think I'm more willing to bear than others. uh retrofitting a building will have certain deltas that over time will impact the cost maybe if we wait two years three years out the HVAC though is a much more can get really expensive if we don't do it right and and

251do it in a timely way I understand that so um what I really want to have happen at this referendum with respect to portions I really want the HVAC project to pass and I really want the roads to pass those are crit those are those aren't as people may have characterized Those aren't wants. Those are needs. Those are needs. This is more. >> And when you say the HBA, you're talking about the schools, >> correct? Correct. I'm sorry. Yes. Those are need. Those are needs. Contrary to what may have been portrayed in public comment. >> Yeah. >> This is I'm not saying it's not >> It's not an immediate need. Thank you. That's that's what I'm trying to say. So, if I'm going to balance my priorities, I think that's how I would do it.

252That being said, if if the council votes, you know, to to do it, I I understand that I would probably vote along with it just because I think it's important we send the message to the community that we're all right on this. It's I don't want it to turn into a football. You know what I mean? Um, so anyway, that's all I got and I'm curious to see everybody else turn. >> Thank you. Any other comments? Go ahead, Bruce. I um I think we're collectively coming to an uncomfortable truth that some of the previous decisions are hamstringing us more than we wish it did. Uh because if we look at, you know, our our the past four years in a row clicking on 30 million, 30 million, 30 million, there's a fire station out there,

253another 30 million. Not quite all of them, but that's kind of the the path we've been on. And there's only there's only so much we can eat. And I think the uncomfortable truth is this may be, you know, a bridge too far. And I I think my thinking lines up a lot with yours, Bill, in that um the things the the the schools AC and the roads are are mustos. Um if I'd really like to see us be able to do uh the annex and the Staples House. I think those are important things to do, but there's only so much we can we can eat and and really pushing that out and giving us a little bit of breathing room. I think while it's going to be a hard decision, I would want to go

254there, too. I don't really want to bite off that 7 million on top of everything else and and and push the community to that, especially when we're we're banging on that fire station next year. And that's another one of those mustos, right? So, we've got we've got the school AC, we've got the roads, and we've got the fire station, which we are all 100% committed must be done. And that keeps us on that uncomfortable path that we're on. There isn't the bandworth there. And and I think we just have to face that fact. >> What's the age on the AC up here? We we did our when did we do the energy project? >> 2015 >> 2010 I knew it was >> 2010. So it's 16 years old and then they have decided it's dead

255now. you can't start maintaining it is throwing money after bad >> right and I think the MRESCO we didn't actually we didn't really do >> good thing we did more the amresco thing was more controls and um putting in var variable drive fans and things like that put in new piping for the copper piping >> it's heat it's hot water heat >> so it's just carrying the water through and then putting fans at the various um >> so the main issue has been the the heat. >> Well, so in our report condition analysis, um it says for example, hot water piping distribution system appears to be original to the building. >> Um sorry, which could have so there's been some things that have never been upgraded >> that has been upgraded. That that was the

256one thing that was >> that one was upgraded though. Um >> yeah, I would say it was again it's sort of like half the >> Yeah, >> the actual boilers themselves were not replaced. >> We're having problems mainly boilers with the boilers. >> One's not one does not one one we have it's a redundant system. So if one goes offline we have a backup one. Um, one is totally offline and has been for the past. >> So, we don't have it back >> last but we it has been giving us issues every year the past year that they had no heat in here for a few days. >> Last week it was two weeks in a row we we've had to have make service calls and get the heat back online. >> What are the

257costs on the service calls yet? >> I haven't gotten the bill yet. >> Oh, wonderful. >> Billion dollars. >> Yeah, sounds like it. I mean so this kind of this conversation kind of triggers back you know the conversation we had when we first were discussing it and that is the idea of doing a much more precise study right that allows us to fully appreciate and understand what what the actual needs are trying because I I don't I want to convey the message which is that we're taking it seriously and we want to do it well and we're not just going to let it go away but this might not be the year for it and one of the I think half a loaf type of approach would be to let's do a design study, a

258proper design study, and then have that information before us when we make further decisions. You know, again, I I think you can I can see in your face and I feel too. It's like what what's the right call here? And it's a hard it's really hard. >> It's very Yeah, it's it's a very difficult >> Kathy, can I ask a question? in last year's capital projects the it went out in out years for town hall improvements two different lines I don't know which town hall is which um but the total between last year and 2032 was 1.8 8 million. So were there changes? I'm just looking at the cap. This is last year last year. Yeah. So in last year's budget, >> we were discussing cap. I'm just curious if there were >> changes in

259evaluation or thinking or like >> it was the way in which we would do that. That was kind of that phased approach where you're putting money each year to try to then build up and do it. >> Okay. >> Later. Um this is kind of frontloading it now and bonding for it. Okay. >> So, there's no money bank for it. >> No. >> All right. So, >> sleep on. >> Yeah. >> I think it's also important to note that there are people who are in this building every single day in the probate court and in this room as the town uses it every single day for all of our meetings, >> public meetings. Should we sorry it's not like we were wrapping up but I just so I don't want to throw a whole thing

260at but should we say like on the capital part is there any part of the BOE capital that needs discussion further or is there anything that people have a hang up like I like I mean if it's just to knock out that one page and we could consider some of the other stuff but like I just the only the only hangup I had and Bill talked me down about some of this was um on the technology improvement slide side. They had shown what was in the account. They had shown what the ask was. They had shown what the need was. If you added up what was in the account and what the ask was, they were going to have $100,000. I could be wrong on that number. $100,000 or so more than what they than

261what the need was. So, I'm fully in support of getting them everything they need. But then when we see that that new account where they're going to have 530,000. So my my qu I guess my my question to them which which I asked I I they essentially said it's it felt like it was that banking thing and I could be using that word wrong. I don't want to put that on them but it felt like it was basically like future technology need. So, is it one of these things where it's like what we're talking about with with the town hall project, if we had kind of banked some money for some future need, is that their like though would that would be is that just their best practices or do you think I don't want

262to make >> No, no, I know it's fine. And I and I'm not I'm not going to speak for them either. I'm just going to say from my recollection of it is that um that was kind of how they were they were going to present this year, right? I think that's how they wanted they were >> you're talking about the the banking idea. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> it wasn't presented like that before. >> Yeah. So, what the topic is is that the board and they do it more and we've encouraged collectively we have encouraged the banking of they can put money in architectural fees and different things but what was getting kind of lost in transition even when we have our capital meetings is what is actually being banked right >> and what is actually

263being spent. And so we when I have our capital meetings with the board of education, we go through and say, "Okay, what are you using your money for?" And this and then I've had some conversations where we said, "I think it would be helpful even on our side, you know, $30,000 is going to X and hundreds being banked because we know we have to buy a new server later on." And we bank it. And on the town side, we bank a couple hundred thousand dollars each year on our side to pay for our portion of the server. the board's banking the same thing on their side and then three years later we buy the server and so we we use the banking method on both sides of the aisle. Now I I didn't care about

264the technology but I had suggested to them that it's clear let people know what's actually being banked and what you actually are spending your money on. Yeah, >> but these are designed these are these are necessary banking like like the lapsing non-lapsing fund, right? This is specifically, you know, they're they're they're attached to certain projects towards the goal. So, right, these are not like we're just kind of slush funds of extra cash by any stretch of the imagination. It's what kind like what you do, which makes perfect sense. >> No, it's banking for if you have to do the AR um design or something and you you save some money up and then it cost $500,000, >> right? Those funds are encumbered I guess which funds are encumbered >> but just for the sake of

265when in the past when we have had really tight budgets that we and we've needed some flexibility on the board of ed side right I think traditionally it is that technology account that usually it's the capital appropriation for technology that we end up getting a little bit back from what the presentation was am I remembering that wrong or is that am I just being anecdotal not necessarily >> I think that might be more just because I I remember having been through some pretty challenging years and they would from a couple of different >> couple go to a couple of different >> Yeah. I think last year it came from technology but not yet because last year they requested 550 >> and we funded 475. >> They got that generator over my dead body. So >>

266that generator could have been had that generator could have been had for a heck of a lot less money if it been 5 years earlier. Brian could be turning that switch across the >> I think. >> Yeah, but there's a service. >> Furniture has been a big one that >> I mean I'm looking at the slide. So it's saying like their current balance is 123,000. They're requesting 550. Of that they have three items. Servers, network equipment, and infrastructure that are asterisk. That's are the examples of banking which equal $365,000. >> Yeah, that's what so that that's where my >> and then the difference and the other three items were AV equipment 90,000, teacher Chromebooks 30,000 and IR data rate uh wiring 85,000 which is 205,000. So that equates to 560,000. So to me I'm >>

267which still leaves extra money. >> Yeah. After after the bank notes that's that's exactly where my thing is. >> It would be Can I look at that? >> Yes. It would be really helpful to clarify >> the interpret what they're saying there >> for the big one and not to go everyone just Kathy give Kathy a moment just for us the council >> they have that >> is everybody good with >> so it's >> putting the AC on the bonding project as a bonding project >> 673 >> for me HVAC >> HV the big one the big the big >> I want to make sure we're talking >> from my standpoint I >> am a little bit old school in that I went West District. I'm okay. I don't think it's significantly hotter. My kids

268are all there forunately. >> Um I have other family in Westwoods and East Farms. I'm fine with the AC, but I also understand it's a state thing. So I'm not I would not get in the way. I would not stay on the desk and find it. And I also think it's something for and so I'm perfectly fine with it if everybody else is. And I think I agree in the fact that if we're going >> funded reimbursed, not going back to getting 14 million and it's gonna be 9 million that's different. >> You're right. That's >> where we were before. Absolutely. >> And we still have to bump to put the question at 14. >> No, absolutely. Question 14, but no. >> It should be there's an expectation >> at 673. Yeah, cuz it's what

269they have. That's what they requested that 675 673 project or 24 >> it's just good to have fresh air open >> and I'll just add from I know we all survived living in Farmington and I went to East Farms and Oallis and I survived laying on the floor and everything in the heat but global warming like it's a lot different and I think it's a lot high hotter even though with the stats that we're hitting those I don't agree with 85 the world has changed and is a lot higher so I am all for putting them as a bonding question >> okay well remember the bond question will also can be phrased by indicating there's going to be a reimbursement attached to it right >> that goes other words the question that wouldn't be in

270the bond the question itself >> actual question the explanation I would hope that we can notate that because I think that's really important that >> folks >> no I think roads is a solid you know requirement that what we need and I think this the you know the school project >> it's like one of the fundamental responsibilities of tough government that's just that's just fundamental >> fundamental >> teaching kids and public safety getting people around >> for you my math >> yeah what was the topic again >> we're not going to >> no technology was 550 >> and then the banking versus >> yeah I'd say there's an extra $43,000 there or something. What was >> I think it was >> 43 >> between the 630 and the 7 >> 73 >> and so that

271goes across several of these. >> So I think that personally I think that needs to be further explored to show the difference in all these accounts that have banks. >> I think give them an opportunity to explain what they meant by that. This didn't come across as clearly like Yeah, that's probably a fair way. Again, I think that's >> And when I say that again, I wasn't here for the conversation is that they always have technology. So that it was it's a revolving account, so it would be banked in the account and they keep that $43,000 in that account. And again, that that's, you know, that's one way to do it or, you know, >> well, I mean, you can look at their end of the year statement, right? It's usually that that account zeros

272out for that year, right, for the most part, right? And then but there might be some more money in there but the expenditures for that year have been exhausted and then there's more money as you're going because you know you're buying things not necessarily based on the fiscal year. >> Right. >> I think that's the key. You're buying things at a different point. >> If you waited for the fiscal year and then had a buy you might not actually >> get the good prices or whatever. >> I I think on both again on both sides of the aisle on the capital, >> right? We neither one of us ever have enough money in the capital. So, but the question is if there the town historically has made reductions in the capital for different things such

273as that because there is it's a banking account. It's a different thing because we always know we're going to need the money. So, it's like both sides. >> Yeah. And I wouldn't dispute that there's need and I don't think anybody's intentionally had fluff and I'm not I just >> I think we're pretty lean. I think >> Yeah. also one two extra things for bond question. >> Is there any other discussion? >> Oh, so Brian just talk about what we forward. >> Yes, I believe uh we're going to finish up relatively soon here. We're going to get together tomorrow and pick up and would you like to cover outline the things we're going to cover tomorrow? >> Yeah. So, tomorrow we're going to do the department slow down. Uh we're going to do public safety, public

274works, community, recreation. Then we're going to do the special revenue funds, and then we're going to do uh revenue. So we have those um and then from there, it's really looking at the entire budget as you normally do, right? >> So people will be here at work. Everyone will be we'll also have the library will be here and register our voters will be here. Do you present us with the questions that the motion? >> Yes. >> So to tomorrow potentially there's the chance to vote on a budget res resolution as town council. Correct. >> Yes. The only thing and I speaking for Joe right now and things like that is that we are not you know we don't have printers here. It's a little different as long as it's not overly complicated where we're trying

275to do with the finances and things like that. I think we're comfortable with that. You know >> just Make sure it's a little bit different because we're not 100% set up down here. >> We bring a printer down here and everything. So, >> okay. >> Yes. But yes, potentially um we could we could do that. >> Okay. Great. >> And the only other caveat is just the warning has to be approved. So, if you do make any changes under your discussion on the bond um for this building, if you do make any changes to what I think you're going to do, then I'm gonna have to rewrite the warning. >> So, my typing skills aren't that great. So, take me a few minutes to do >> something to amuse yourself for a while. >> No.

276So, we can just make fun of you while you type and further distract you and make it take longer. >> That's good. turns off. >> Yeah. So, the answer to that is yes. >> All right. I think we're in a good place for this evening. Thank you everybody. Can I have you? >> I make a motion to adjourn tonight. >> All in favor? >> I >> All right. Thank you very much for your good work. Kathy Joe cat Appreciate him.